gonna put forth an unpopular opinion in the DaD community but a pretty much unanimously held consensus belief in every other class based game ever. (anyone feel free to reply if you know why this doesn't work in your opinion for dark and darker) but basically if you think of pretty much any other fantasy rpg /class game or whatever healing outscales damage 99/100 times in these types of games because of one main reason: healing is the button that says I don't lose the game right now, but damage is the button that says I win the game. Even going all the way back to actual dungeons and dragons style games healing is generally considered a suboptimal game action most of the time because taking time to not kill the enemy is just not as good as taking time to kill the enemy. And in video games as a whole the reason healing outscales damage kind of goes back to that initial table top principle because if damage and healing are equal why would you ever spend time healing when you could spend the exact same amount of time doing damage to the enemy at the same rate, when the enemy is dead there is no need to heal. Obviously there are tactics to consider like taking down time to heal when your ability to deal damage is low or you are not at risk of taking more damage etc. healing at any rate might still be a great option in a variety of scenarios but the principal in general still stands. Also just for a comparative in this game just look at any bis'd out physical damage dealer in dark and darker like a 50% power bonus long bow user with full true phys, are their arrows doing that much less damage than a cleric heals for? not really. I think there should be more healing reduction effects and more strong healing options in general buffing druid healing capabilities and all the other classes healing while enabling more classes to reliably mitigate healing would be the right avenue imo. if you have been one or 2 tapped by anything in the game (while wearing good gear) and you think a cleric being able to heal that much is the problem i just don't understand. I also think if there were like 3 classes that could heal as well as cleric this would just not even be a discussion people have but since DaD has pretty much only had 1 viable healing class for the majority of its lifespan that class gets all the attention for being good at the thing its supposed to be good at. Their burst might be a bit too high but without any significant long ranged option I don't think its that bad either. Wouldn't mind them getting some kind of holy bolt like spell and just nerfing all their damage spells a little so they don't just explode people that come close.
Cleric has 1 thing it can do, sure overtuned a bit, but i feel like everyone is overreacting. Its not cleric that is OP. It is magical healing. Mag healing builds on warlock and druid are also insane. Scale mag healing down and the problem is fixed. Simple. Cleric also has a very high skill gap for healbot. u have to literally predict where ur teammates are gonna be and what they are going to do before they do it.
I agree. Especially people in high gear know clerics sustain ability and will go out of their way to dive you as soon as your frontliners are distracted. Cleric is tough and takes a lot of skill
Good vid, maybe lacked to contextualise why almost all those strenghts dont apply on solo at the same time lacking the most important thing in solos for a melee: a gap closer. And ultimately why they are holding on nerfing cleric, they want to fix mov speed meta b4 nerf cleric. I am being a little optimistic on the things they have said, but they are nerfing wiz every 2 patches bcs of trios/arena while not being good on solos, so I am pissed off too its not even a consistent balance approach.
clerics reminds me of Apex legends when gold armor used to heal rly fast. The wearer could get in a fight, but if they got hurt a lot they could go behind a wall and be back at full Hp and shield, it pretty much meant a win for anyone who had it.
Just add more support options on other classes. Having a support role in the game is healthy and adds diversity and depth. But it RUINS the game when there's only one class that can fill that role. Incredibly discouraging when you know no one that plays it. I didn't truly understand this until I took a break from playing Cleric to main Wiz for a while.
Holy strike judgement combo = if you arent a barbarian you arent allowed to push the cleric into melee or your HP dissappears followed by stun lock. Cleric is balanced at low/mid gear when they don't have insane amounts of magic healing, but the heals scale way too hard and it becomes very oppressive when you get to the 15+ magic healing range
I'd like to see cleric pivot away from healing slightly to making protection their primary support ability. Maybe make sanc give phyical and magical bubbles rather than being a quick reset. Also give cleric a projectile damage spell. Really stupid that it doesn't have one yet.
You have to use a heal on anyone under 100% because they can die to longbow/fireball to the dome. Literally any team composition is served better by an extra wizard. Except if the opposing team has more rangers, then another ranger is better. 20:30 if the cleric is healing themselves he's not healing his allies or dealing damage to you. He's just buying time. A rogue/warlock/ranger/bard/wizard kiting you can buy time and deal damage at the same time. Cleric is not a "do everything" class. They're slow and easily beaten in any fight. If you're 7m away from a cleric, he can literally do NOTHING to you. Use your bow/spells on them until they run out of heals and then all the cleric can do is try to waddle at you in plate or be a slightly tankier melee wizard when in cloth. There is no way a holy strike can hit someone who is running away, they have to make a mistake to take it.
this is so insanely wrong i dont even know where to begin LMAO like you fundamentally dont understand the game for me to even explain whats wrong with your statement to you in a way you could understand it
I'm sorry, are you sure you figured out the question? The enhancement of magical healing can be obtained from several sources: 14 enchantment 5 perk, 3-4 seals, specific equipment (3 pants and a staff, the staff gives 3-5 (because you need to subtract 3 from the enchantment). Moreover, the maximum additional magical healing is 24 with standard equipment, and 32 with specific equipment (but most likely you will not wear a staff and pants). At the same time, if we consider an "adequate" amount of healing in a very good set (but not BIS), then the treatment will be 23 (unless you wear unique gloves) with a magic power index of about 60% For a "little" healing (15+23)*1.6 =60.8, for a large 76.8., and the sanctuary (5+(23/2))*(1 + (0.6%2)) = 21 per tick. The druid doesn't even get close to such values. (3 periodic treatments gives 106hp in 10 seconds). Now, given the popularity of fire mastery, the poison of the robber has reduced this healing by at least 2. Now you're talking about "huge" damage, but you build yourself a set with maximum magic healing with maximum added damage, with enough magic power. Now compare this damage with any other in the game, keep in mind that there are only 4 spell charges, and now compare your defensive parameters with any others in the game. In reality, unfortunately, the priest is just a non- and mandatory alternative support class. The author did not understand the question well.
you realize with 50% magic power your holy strikes and judgements are still doing around 40-50 damage and druid healing is mostly multi target so each restore is healing both of your allies as opposed to clerics lesser and holy light being single target.
Maybe magic healing shouldn't scale with magic power. The other flat additional stats don't scale either, so why does magic healing do? Additional/True magic damage doesn't scale with magic power. Additional/True physical damage doesn't scale with physical power. So why does magic healing scale with magic power? It's an inconsistency with game mechanics.
I wouldn't say to nerf cleric, but buff the heck out of druid healing, for example during mending groove allies with nature's touch or restore, healing is doubled or whatever, make dreamfires work with nature's touch or restore., increase the spell count, change the scaling of mag heal... Taking a off meta class and buffing the shit out of it to make it where it can compete with cleric. pirate software makes a very good point: ua-cam.com/users/shortsy5CjhzyIZio
This is my issue with Arena. Classes will get nerfed off of feedback from back to back arena games where certain play styles and abilities are used 'in a vacuum' - if you nerfed healing on the cleric then it would literally be useless in regular dungeon mode and noone would ever play it..
Cleric is slow, slow to play, my grandmother opens doors faster than the cleric. He is easy to be beaten by a good rogue or archer. Judgment + Hstk does not kill good barbarian and fgter, Cleric has to have something good, healing, this character is an expert in that, that's what he does well. Barbarian kills you if you stick to him, fgter balanced, rogue dps and inv, ranger dps at a distance, CLERIC healing, is simple. Turtles are slow and tough, and have the wisdom to recover friends, perhaps in the arena, it is good, but playing with friends, cleric is essential, when playing informally, Especially with resurrection, it helps a lot, bless the clergy, because life is hard.
I have an idea that could help with the healing aspect, what if you take away the magic power scaling and reduce the heals by like 5-10 than double the spell charges this maintains there identity of burst heal but still slows it down
The issue is that, despite what you said about cleric being good offensively, cleric is dogshit in solos, so the only viable way to play cleric is backline healer. Thus, If you nerf healer cleric too severely then the class will have pretty much nothing going for it. However, I do agree that things like judgement faithfulness and overhealing should be tuned down.
im a big cleric main and been playing backline healing for like a year, theres never really been proper nerfs to healin, except the heal count (lesser heal was 3 but got rebuffed to 4) and the only real nerf is 1 less big heal. the base healing has got nerfed but sanctuary is way too much for healing, i have 23 MH and heal for like 90hp for big heal in like 0.8 seconds, it is riduculous, + health stacking for overheal. I love cleric and love backline healing, but when i play against it, it feels like im trying to kill an unkillable character when cleric is pocketing. there should be more counterplay, not just heal reduction for certain classes. Needs to be 1 sanc only, 3 lesser, 3 big heal, and it the magical healing stat needs to go down, for warlocks too, so 1 MH only on rings, and 2 on pendant and chest and book.
@SpinachOW2 tm will never be useless when you have phantomize and high ms, and 2 on pendant chest spellbook and 1 mh on rings is not even that bad. it's about a 35% reduction.
The devs need more than a couple ‘monster guys’ if they are to achieve that. I’m with you tho, I’d love phat raids with inspired boss mechanics. It’s just so far away with how basic the AI is right now
Nobody talking about how he has the best cleric character name of all time
gonna put forth an unpopular opinion in the DaD community but a pretty much unanimously held consensus belief in every other class based game ever. (anyone feel free to reply if you know why this doesn't work in your opinion for dark and darker) but basically if you think of pretty much any other fantasy rpg /class game or whatever healing outscales damage 99/100 times in these types of games because of one main reason: healing is the button that says I don't lose the game right now, but damage is the button that says I win the game. Even going all the way back to actual dungeons and dragons style games healing is generally considered a suboptimal game action most of the time because taking time to not kill the enemy is just not as good as taking time to kill the enemy. And in video games as a whole the reason healing outscales damage kind of goes back to that initial table top principle because if damage and healing are equal why would you ever spend time healing when you could spend the exact same amount of time doing damage to the enemy at the same rate, when the enemy is dead there is no need to heal. Obviously there are tactics to consider like taking down time to heal when your ability to deal damage is low or you are not at risk of taking more damage etc. healing at any rate might still be a great option in a variety of scenarios but the principal in general still stands. Also just for a comparative in this game just look at any bis'd out physical damage dealer in dark and darker like a 50% power bonus long bow user with full true phys, are their arrows doing that much less damage than a cleric heals for? not really. I think there should be more healing reduction effects and more strong healing options in general buffing druid healing capabilities and all the other classes healing while enabling more classes to reliably mitigate healing would be the right avenue imo. if you have been one or 2 tapped by anything in the game (while wearing good gear) and you think a cleric being able to heal that much is the problem i just don't understand. I also think if there were like 3 classes that could heal as well as cleric this would just not even be a discussion people have but since DaD has pretty much only had 1 viable healing class for the majority of its lifespan that class gets all the attention for being good at the thing its supposed to be good at. Their burst might be a bit too high but without any significant long ranged option I don't think its that bad either. Wouldn't mind them getting some kind of holy bolt like spell and just nerfing all their damage spells a little so they don't just explode people that come close.
Cleric has 1 thing it can do, sure overtuned a bit, but i feel like everyone is overreacting. Its not cleric that is OP. It is magical healing. Mag healing builds on warlock and druid are also insane. Scale mag healing down and the problem is fixed. Simple. Cleric also has a very high skill gap for healbot. u have to literally predict where ur teammates are gonna be and what they are going to do before they do it.
Very well said 💜💜💜💜
I agree. Especially people in high gear know clerics sustain ability and will go out of their way to dive you as soon as your frontliners are distracted. Cleric is tough and takes a lot of skill
Good vid, maybe lacked to contextualise why almost all those strenghts dont apply on solo at the same time lacking the most important thing in solos for a melee: a gap closer. And ultimately why they are holding on nerfing cleric, they want to fix mov speed meta b4 nerf cleric. I am being a little optimistic on the things they have said, but they are nerfing wiz every 2 patches bcs of trios/arena while not being good on solos, so I am pissed off too its not even a consistent balance approach.
Cleric is fine in solos if you play corners with judgement smite and get them at close range with the hitslows
Yeah but Clerics are slow so they don't need a healing nerf -SDF's mentality
Not quoting him but thats sort of what he said in the Dev Q&A with Onepeg
clerics reminds me of Apex legends when gold armor used to heal rly fast. The wearer could get in a fight, but if they got hurt a lot they could go behind a wall and be back at full Hp and shield, it pretty much meant a win for anyone who had it.
Just add more support options on other classes. Having a support role in the game is healthy and adds diversity and depth. But it RUINS the game when there's only one class that can fill that role. Incredibly discouraging when you know no one that plays it. I didn't truly understand this until I took a break from playing Cleric to main Wiz for a while.
Holy strike judgement combo = if you arent a barbarian you arent allowed to push the cleric into melee or your HP dissappears followed by stun lock.
Cleric is balanced at low/mid gear when they don't have insane amounts of magic healing, but the heals scale way too hard and it becomes very oppressive when you get to the 15+ magic healing range
I'd like to see cleric pivot away from healing slightly to making protection their primary support ability. Maybe make sanc give phyical and magical bubbles rather than being a quick reset. Also give cleric a projectile damage spell. Really stupid that it doesn't have one yet.
You have to use a heal on anyone under 100% because they can die to longbow/fireball to the dome.
Literally any team composition is served better by an extra wizard. Except if the opposing team has more rangers, then another ranger is better.
20:30 if the cleric is healing themselves he's not healing his allies or dealing damage to you. He's just buying time. A rogue/warlock/ranger/bard/wizard kiting you can buy time and deal damage at the same time.
Cleric is not a "do everything" class. They're slow and easily beaten in any fight. If you're 7m away from a cleric, he can literally do NOTHING to you. Use your bow/spells on them until they run out of heals and then all the cleric can do is try to waddle at you in plate or be a slightly tankier melee wizard when in cloth.
There is no way a holy strike can hit someone who is running away, they have to make a mistake to take it.
this is so insanely wrong i dont even know where to begin LMAO like you fundamentally dont understand the game for me to even explain whats wrong with your statement to you in a way you could understand it
I'm sorry, are you sure you figured out the question? The enhancement of magical healing can be obtained from several sources: 14 enchantment 5 perk, 3-4 seals, specific equipment (3 pants and a staff, the staff gives 3-5 (because you need to subtract 3 from the enchantment). Moreover, the maximum additional magical healing is 24 with standard equipment, and 32 with specific equipment (but most likely you will not wear a staff and pants).
At the same time, if we consider an "adequate" amount of healing
in a very good set (but not BIS), then the treatment will be 23 (unless you wear unique gloves) with a magic power index of about 60%
For a "little" healing (15+23)*1.6 =60.8, for a large 76.8., and the sanctuary (5+(23/2))*(1 + (0.6%2)) = 21 per tick.
The druid doesn't even get close to such values. (3 periodic treatments gives 106hp in 10 seconds).
Now, given the popularity of fire mastery, the poison of the robber has reduced this healing by at least 2.
Now you're talking about "huge" damage, but you build yourself a set with maximum magic healing with maximum added damage, with enough magic power. Now compare this damage with any other in the game, keep in mind that there are only 4 spell charges, and now compare your defensive parameters with any others in the game.
In reality, unfortunately, the priest is just a non- and mandatory alternative support class.
The author did not understand the question well.
you realize with 50% magic power your holy strikes and judgements are still doing around 40-50 damage and druid healing is mostly multi target so each restore is healing both of your allies as opposed to clerics lesser and holy light being single target.
lol the judgement - holy strike bombs absolutely toss me into the grinder
Maybe magic healing shouldn't scale with magic power. The other flat additional stats don't scale either, so why does magic healing do? Additional/True magic damage doesn't scale with magic power. Additional/True physical damage doesn't scale with physical power. So why does magic healing scale with magic power? It's an inconsistency with game mechanics.
I wouldn't say to nerf cleric, but buff the heck out of druid healing, for example during mending groove allies with nature's touch or restore, healing is doubled or whatever, make dreamfires work with nature's touch or restore., increase the spell count, change the scaling of mag heal... Taking a off meta class and buffing the shit out of it to make it where it can compete with cleric. pirate software makes a very good point: ua-cam.com/users/shortsy5CjhzyIZio
This is my issue with Arena. Classes will get nerfed off of feedback from back to back arena games where certain play styles and abilities are used 'in a vacuum' - if you nerfed healing on the cleric then it would literally be useless in regular dungeon mode and noone would ever play it..
As if normal cleric is balanced in trios in normal dungeons bro
Bro is trying to divert away from Druid so hard
santuary overheal your team , bles them , protect and lets go for some free kills
Cleric is slow, slow to play, my grandmother opens doors faster than the cleric. He is easy to be beaten by a good rogue or archer. Judgment + Hstk does not kill good barbarian and fgter,
Cleric has to have something good, healing, this character is an expert in that, that's what he does well.
Barbarian kills you if you stick to him, fgter balanced, rogue dps and inv, ranger dps at a distance, CLERIC healing, is simple.
Turtles are slow and tough, and have the wisdom to recover friends, perhaps in the arena, it is good, but playing with friends, cleric is essential, when playing informally, Especially with resurrection, it helps a lot, bless the clergy, because life is hard.
Overhealing is good especially when you miss the heal in combat, hahaha removing the cleric's heal is removing his soul
I have an idea that could help with the healing aspect, what if you take away the magic power scaling and reduce the heals by like 5-10 than double the spell charges this maintains there identity of burst heal but still slows it down
The issue is that, despite what you said about cleric being good offensively, cleric is dogshit in solos, so the only viable way to play cleric is backline healer. Thus, If you nerf healer cleric too severely then the class will have pretty much nothing going for it. However, I do agree that things like judgement faithfulness and overhealing should be tuned down.
cleric is in fact, not horrible in solos.
clerics OP in solos becuz of judgement/holy strike even barbs don’t push Clerics in Solo
If cleric is bad on solos then l2p lil guy u doing smth wrong
@@ptrUA-cam no fr one of the top 3 classes for solo imo
@@Beedo- ye but this class is so npc and boring so it needs to be op otherwise noone would play it
im a big cleric main and been playing backline healing for like a year, theres never really been proper nerfs to healin, except the heal count (lesser heal was 3 but got rebuffed to 4) and the only real nerf is 1 less big heal. the base healing has got nerfed but sanctuary is way too much for healing, i have 23 MH and heal for like 90hp for big heal in like 0.8 seconds, it is riduculous, + health stacking for overheal. I love cleric and love backline healing, but when i play against it, it feels like im trying to kill an unkillable character when cleric is pocketing. there should be more counterplay, not just heal reduction for certain classes. Needs to be 1 sanc only, 3 lesser, 3 big heal, and it the magical healing stat needs to go down, for warlocks too, so 1 MH only on rings, and 2 on pendant and chest and book.
Unless they increase warlocks scaling you’re basically asking for TM to be useless
@@SpinachOW2 xD warlock is unkillable with the healing he now has, nerf is coming piece of abusing shit
@SpinachOW2 tm will never be useless when you have phantomize and high ms, and 2 on pendant chest spellbook and 1 mh on rings is not even that bad. it's about a 35% reduction.
FIiiiirst
Everyday I think that this game would be more fun as a trio pve game with pvp as a afterthought
The devs need more than a couple ‘monster guys’ if they are to achieve that. I’m with you tho, I’d love phat raids with inspired boss mechanics. It’s just so far away with how basic the AI is right now
A pve focused dark and darker simply wouldn't be dark and darker. Pvp interactions are the core game.