55 years old been playing 1st edition since 1982 and still going and introducing new players to it. it started me on the road to bodybuilding, fencing, martial arts and archery too. D&D changed my life for the better
I think what people don't understand is, AD&D was written by, and thus approached as a system for, adults who were already wargame enthusiasts. As such, when he wrote the DM guide, he was talking to someone who understood probability, general game mechanics, and hopefully if you are the DM, some creativity and ability to storyboard on the fly. That's why it seems so light on rules. If you take a wargame set in WWII, you already know the bad guys, the good guys, their weapons, their tactics, terrain, etc. In a fantasy setting, you don't want to stifle the players' or DM's creativity. At the same time, including creatures your characters are probably never going to run into is fine, because gives an idea, a bigger picture as to where you can go. Remember, the idea of this game is to look at that old map, see the pencil drawing of a sea monster on the edge and the words "here be monsters", and say, "Well, I definitely know where I want to go now." You don't necessarily have to run into Asmodeus, but with a little tweaking to the stats to bring it down a few notches, you can have a devil that comes to Georgia and loses a fiddle contest to a hillbilly.
AD&D can be complex, but it's not as complicated as people think. There is a lot of reading, and the glossy structure of modern gaming does make it easier to read and digest. 1st edition is raw; there's a feeling of purity to it though, made by gamers for gamers, and nary a marketing focus group in sight. I still play 1e today, I started about 1979. I DM a couple of games via discord . There's still a healthy community of players out there. Thank you, I appreciate the video.
1st and 2nd Edition D&D is designed to immerse you into the world by including vital information within the text, not just including it within the stats. It encourages DM's to know the creatures they are dealing with inside and out, to make them feel more like they have history in the world, instead of just varieties of stat blocks thrown into dungeons for players to kill. Nowadays, starting with 3rd, the text included beneath creatures is almost entirely lore you can be ignored.
For sorting out the Initiative, Surprise, and Combat round I strongly recommend the free OSRIC PDF download. They sorted it out quite well. We play using that.
I turn 49 today and began with Red/Blue Box (Mentzer). By '84 I was playing nothing but Advanced. D&D has shaped my entire life; hobbies, games, movies etc. Love the fantasy genre in all things!
I'm 51. I started playing D&D in 1982 sitting around back patio tables during the summer alternating between playing D&D and swimming in the pools. In college we played AD&D 2nd edition. Years later I tried 3rd edition/D20, skipped 4th ed., and played a little bit of 5th edition before coming to the same conclusion you did. In the middle of a long and successful 3rd edition game around 2001 we made the decision to dump that crap and play what we truly missed, Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 1st edition. Like I said I tried some 5th edition and didn't care for it, and we're back playing AD&D exclusively now for a few years. My entire group, ages 31-52, all love it. It delivers the feel we love. For a few of us it also delivers that strong nostalgic vibe, and we all like how its unforgiving ;) ... loved your review!
Just a note: the main reason Gygax started the DMG with a discussion of dice and probability is because it was accepted that all DMs made their own rulings during a game -- it was the job of the DM to be not just the rules referee but a rules 'creator' (since not every circumstance could be covered by a book-defined rule). So when a DM wanted to decide what "chance" a player's character might have to do something, it would be helpful for a DM to understand the difference between linear probability and bell curves, and how to use dice to create the right probability for a given "chance". When I first read the DMG when I was 13, I didn't understand this. I don't think I truly appreciated it until I was in my late 20's.
I've played every version from Basic through 5th edition, but I've recently decided to abandon 5th edition and start a new campaign with AD&D first edition. I have been yearning for the game that I grew up with and fell in love with. Every version since first edition was just a step backwards in my opinion. I used to think 2nd edition was an improvement, but in retrospect, I do not like the changes made there. I'm tired of "upgrading" to the latest, greatest and I am forever going to stick with first edition. Thanks for the video.
AD&D 1e is certainly my preferred edition. Two of the four games I run are AD&D. I agree, though, that its major flaw is the poor presentation. It definintely took me a while to sort things out and make my own notes about how to smooth out play. Combat especially requires some parsing before it runs smoothly, but once you smooth out the wrinkles and integrate the majority of the concepts, 1e combat is a thing of beauty to behold. Love this game!
Fifth edition is about saving the world, being a superhero. AD&D was about finding coin and getting it out of the dungeon and back to town. And it gave you stuff to do with the money. Buying equipment, hirelings, building a castle if you wanted one. Fifth edition doesn't care about money it's all about your hero getting more abilities and doing cool shit. Old style gaming you could find monsters that aged you or took levels away if you weren't careful. And aging might make you a little smarter but it also made you a lot weaker cause it tried to mirror reality more. It's more about the money and less about the story and still cool as hell. Good video. Loved it.
Everyone in 5e is the same. I loved how it took longer to level up as a Wizard in 1e. It makes sense that it would take longer to level up in certain classes.
I think the open ended rule approach by Gygax really fostered invention and creativity. We played the game after school, around the campfire it was the glue that bonded us together. And it didn't matter what family we came from we were a team and equals in the game.
This is why for me AD&D is the best -- “It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules which is important. Never hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule books upon you, if it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters given in the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons volumes, you are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a whole first, you campaign next and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons & Dragons as it was meant to be.” Dungeon Master’s Guide (page 230), Gary Gygax Started with a box set of the Basic D&D rules with a blue cover, the module "Keep on the Borderlands", and plastic-coated cardboard sheet you had to cut into "chits" and use instead of actual polyhedral dice. It was limited but I knew it was the Basic D&D set and there was an expanded and more complex set of Advanced D&D books waiting for me when I was ready. Had to wait until I could afford to make that larger investment as I knew there were multiple expensive hardback books to buy. I started with the Players Handbook and then later got both the DM guide and Monster Manual at the same time. And only being twelve or thirteen I had to convince my parents to drive me the sixty-plus mile drive to Wargames West in Albuquerque to buy them. You could find the odd game system or stray rule book or module at bookstores here and there, but Wargames West was the only place in New Mexico back then that was devoted to both a variety of tabletop wargame systems and miniatures and the widest range and selection of RPG systems and accessories in one store. Had a great little video game arcade in the back too. Good times. And I'd still use my modded First Edition AD&D system if I was going to ever run another D&D campaign.
Great vid for a magical game... Advanced D&D was a massive part of my youth, and although the last time I played it was in my mid to late teens (I'm a bloody 47 year old git now), I still love it. One thing that makes me laugh a bit is when I hear kids going on about the immersive computer role playing games of today. Seen and played a few of these myself, and a lot are very impressive and very good, but what makes me giggle is that none come close to the immersion we got back in the eighties from D&D... The fact is, pixels and sound effects will bring you so far, but nothing will ever beat your very own imagination.
I have a feeling that Garry actually set the game up so that you had to play with friends who knew how to play. We played AD&D1e at after school care and there was over 30 high school kids so it was a thing. The biggest part of it was design and creativity. We would get huge cardboard posters and just make towns and villages and areas. My best friend would trace Conan art from his comic books and it was a thing. We read a lot or Conan novels as well.
The people I play with would not care since they are more just in for the time together on the weekend. I think, if you had your world and plan laid out AD&D holds up strong and gives you a lot of freedom.
Great vid, thanks @BoardGameBollocks. Ironically, I am here because my teenage daughter just told me she wants to play AD&D. I played it shed loads in the 80's, and fortunately still have about 10 first edition books in the garage. Need to dust them off and remember the rules. That said, like you mentioned, I was it bit more "in the spirit of the rules", rather than "to the letter of the law". Being a teenager at the time, the books weren't the easier to navigate - but still the best time of my life getting lost 😉
People complain about “Gygaxian” language being difficult but for me this was part of the charm. D&D nowadays is sterile…a one size fits all tub of antiseptic cream afraid to take risks.
I'm happy that 5E and their ilk are doing well, but YES our old PCs were indeed regular joes trying to get by in a hard world! I'm excited that my young son is curious, as FRPGs will do him good (as it did me). Thanks for a thoughtful review!
I first played 1st edition and got thrown in the deep end with D2 Shrine of the Kuo-Toa! Still have nightmares about losing my mates fav elven thief! (He went to face Blibdoolpoolp in her throne room)! I now us a hybrid 1st/2nd edition + some homebrew like Internet Book of Spells (Mage/Cleric edited down) etc.
I played AD&D in late 70s. We played at school too. My math and science teacher was our DM and we played twice a week at lunch. I have all my original books. I still love this version. I never liked the d20 system as much.
My favorite memories of old-school D&D was how me and my fellow 10 year-old, knuckleheaded friends would take turns designing dungeons with the expressed intent of annihilating each others characters. I don't think any of us ever got up past 2nd level, ha!
I think the best edition for me would steal from just about every edition. The thing I love from AD&D is the flavor of the classes and monsters. Illusionists and Assassins have never quite been the same since this edition and monks of course have been a side note since as well. And the Fiend Folio will forever be my favorite monster book.
Loads of material to support the 1e game at the time too, even pre-Internet. GW White Dwarf, TSR Dragon Magazine as the official ones, but then also the amateur fanzines like The Beholder, Trollcrusher, etc. The curated blogs of the day! Filled those niches where additional monsters or homebrew rules and items were wanted.
I found a first edition DMG for twenty bucks yesterday at a pawn shop! Happy about that but I see your points you made at the beginning of the vid. It's a bit much wrapping my head around again after all these years. I think perhaps getting a copy of PHB (last time I had was over 30 years ago) is a better way to restart. Great video!
You are climbing a seemingly endless stairway. You can feel a fluffy carpet under your feet. You find yourselves outside a gloomy chamber. There is a switch on the wall. > BOLLOCKS! Thanks for posting, I agree.
The Book 'What is Dungeons and Dragons*?' by John Butterfield, Philip Parker and David Honigmann was a helpful way to learn the game if you didn't have anyone to show you. It also had a small adventure, 'The Shrine of Kollchap' and gave you examples of how to run it, which helped
1E is my favorite edition despite what flaws it has. The reason the DMG starts with all that tosh about dice and statistics is something you already explained - the Dungeon Master was expected to be something of their own game designer. You can't do that in a system as complex as AD&D without understanding a bit about dice and statistics. Even though the game was mostly directed towards adults at that point, even adults didn't necessarily have an immediate grasp of it. You're definitely right about organization being a serious issue. The reason WHY it's so disorganized can be explained (it was still being written AS it was being published over 3 years), but that doesn't help with fixing the problem. It probably would have been cleaned up and re-issued at some point, except Gygax was forced out of his own company before he could get around to anything like that. 2nd Edition AD&D carried over a LOT of the faults of 1st Edition, but it did at least clean up surprise and combat rules (for better or worse, and IMO it was a bit of both) and organize things _somewhat_ better. Yet 2E ultimately still lost a lot of the captivating charm that derived from 1E's actual raw and rough composition - and I think SO much of that was because Gygax had no hand in it and it began to be particularly aimed at younger players rather than adults. 1E doesn't make it easy on you if you decide to play. It was rough and disorganized because everything about it was still breaking new ground with _every_ new rule book, adventure, and campaign setting. But there are actually aspects of 1E that are BETTER than 5E's slick marketing, merchandising, and design-by-committee can give. When 5E is trying to lure in 1E players by claiming to be MORE like 1E than editions previous to 5E, you know that there's things STILL IN 1E that should NOT have been left behind - they just don't want to admit it. :) 5E has been here 11 years. 1E AD&D has been around for 46. AD&D has been continuously analyzed and developed by people who STILL play it for three and a half decades longer than 5E. It's still worth trying. Just accept that it won't meet you halfway - you'll have to work for it at every step... :)
When I was five years old (in 1989), my uncle invited us to play D&D with him. 2nd edition had already started being sold, but we played 1st edition. My first character was a bog standard human cleric. I really like how resources were thin at low levels. My healing was very important when reaching 0 hit points meant death. Strength was much more important for most classes because of encumbrance and no finesse weapons outside of non-composite bows. My uncle had the DM screen with the combat charts included, so we didn't have to worry too much about that aspect. I loved the game but actually enjoyed 2nd edition more because of the additional character options (dwarf clerics and elf rangers weren't a thing in 1st edition), but the two editions were very cross compatible.
Played D&D a lot when I was a kid in the 80s. Many trips to the only games workshop at the time in Hammersmith & bought hundreds of figures, well and stole some too 😬 Went to Chislehurst caves in Kent and acted out our fantasies. It seemed everything we did was around the game. Even Julian Gollops Choas on the zx spectrum ruled our lives because it was published by games workshop and was basically a 8 player game of D&D on a early computer. Still have all my figures and modules, such fond memories. Unfortunately no one to play with today but would love to revisit. New to your channel and absolutely love your reviews.
I played Adnd for a few years back in the 80s, as a player and then DM, bunch of early 20 somethings, a 4x8 board with 2x4 legs for a table, hex sheets under plexiglass, loads of miniatures, DM staring down the table at you with his nose in a bong; we played many of the classic dungeons, from Temple of Elemental Evil to the Slave Lords, Against the Giants, Descent into the Depths, Drow series, Queen of the Demonweb (we even did the Battle of Maldev in the web with the battle system rules, very fun, and the battle with the Lieutenants of Lolth sticks in my brain, almost managed to wipe the party, tentacle rods, swords of sharpness, much maniacal laughter, good times. During covid lockdown I started watching critical role and so became reacquainted with the game, would look up rules and rulings while watching to try to understand the game (Matt got that ruling wrong... and is that one guy cheating... live on stream?!?!?), the 'action economy', etc, and my take is that the game has been made far easier and more forgiving for players. No level drain, vorpals proc only on a 20, swords of sharpness removed from the game, death saves to prevent bleeding out, spell slots, warlocks, and so many stackable abilities it often seems tp play more like world of warcraft than dnd. Vorpals used to proc on a 17 (they were much scarier back then, 3e defanged them), and a 4hd wight could drain you back to the previous level with a touch, we had THACO and we liked it! (once you understood thaco all those attack charts became superfluous), and negative armor class is the best armor class! Barrier Peaks, White Plume Mountain, Ghost Tower of Inverness... oh my....
I have recently purchased reprints of my main 5 Core books for 1st Edition AD&D. (Unearthed Arcana, PHB, DM Guide, Monster Manual, and so on) and have jumped back down that rabbit hole. I am have played D&D or AD&D in some form since 1st Edition (1988). There is something to be said about how the spells (generally) had brief descriptions that were easy to grasp (although Abjure (4th Level, Unearthed Arcana) took me a few minutes to piece apart. The complex part of AD&D was deciphering the Matrices for THAC:0, there was a much cleaner table for figuring it out in the 2nd Edition Player's Handbook.
I think this is your most eloquent and passionate review yet. Some wonderful points about the human aspects of D and D, and how it speaks to you, that I've never thought about, but are totally true.
If you're interested in a version of this game that fixes all the issues you mentioned, check out OSRIC. It's a free single-volume rules compilation with superb organization and intelligent streamlining of the messier sections (combat makes actual sense and fits into four pages). On top of that, it has even more monsters than the Monster Manual and more magic items than the Dungeon Master's Guide. I treasure my old AD&D hardbounds and re-read them constantly for inspiration and nostalgia, but they don't come to the table with me anymore, OSRIC does.
Great video. I just DMed my 5th session of 5e, so I am new. I am really drawn by 1e's art and feel so I just ordered the original 3 core books. I am hoping to learn it well enough to be a DM for it. I am just trying to see how I would run a session online with a vtt. With 5e it is easy as it is baked into a lot of vtts, but hopefully I can find a way and people who want to play! So since the books don't really explain how to play, how do you recommend I learn? I don't know anyone else who plays
When I was in jail, I taught lots of blokes how to play D@D, It was a mixture of basic D@D and 1st edition. No one bothered us because we were a bunch of literal murders, terrorists, and undesirables. When people did bother us, there was a lot of actual bloodshed, they never bothered us after that. Even the guards looked the other way when we made our own scenery, characters and monsters out or paper mache.
New to the channel, have a few mates who play it but 5th edition. I like the sound of adnd more, seems like there's more to the imagination, more for you the player to fill in the gaps. Good video mate 💪
It took me a long time to realize what it was about 5th edition that was so different from 1st edition ad&d. It's only recently that I realized it is because the focus is in two different places. In 1st edition ad&d, the focus was on the character's actions and the actions you took to affect the world around you and the result of those actions--level, class, race, etc... were anciliary to the character's thoughts, feelings, personality, et al because those were the elements of your character that played center stage--the fact that you were a half-orc barbarian with a two-handed sword just wasn't as relavant. Contrast that with 5th edition today. The entire focus is on your class, your abilities, your gear, and HOW your character affects the world. The 5e player is invested in their character, the 1e ad&d player is invested in the story! That's the major difference.
Hey, that reminded me. I had those two books. I wonder what happened to them… they were cool fun. I’m going to take a look at Mothership and Morkborg when they’re done.
I didn't start playing the game until the beginning of Third edition but I was hooked in by flipping through the 1st edition books. I absolutely love 1st edition, though getting people to play it is complicated. My favorite system is Dungeon Crawl Classics, which can seem a little looney depending on how you approach the game. You do start off as peasants but the power curve is a bit steeper as you level. But I can use AD&D books and modules with this system with minor tweaks so it keeps my 1st edition books relevant.
You've got good taste Daniel. 1st edition is a great edition. Try this. Introduce your players to it by saying, hey, let's try this crazy older version of D&D and try this adventure C1 It's like a team based version of Raiders of the lost arc. Let the players learn the game as they go. But run the 1e round mechanics (learn them well first) and if you have a big paper pad or while board you can list off each phase of the round. Very quickly they'll figure out, holy moly this structure makes sense. Focus on introducing little pieces of the game mechanics bit by bit, they'll clue in how well designed it actually is.
I struggled with the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition system. I don't think I ever figured it out. I do like the older monster manuals. I do like the modern OSR systems that cleaned up basic D&D. Fun watch and no sponsors in the middle, thank god. lol
I do agree. There is a magic in first edition that is missing in 5th. One of my mates and I recently had a conversation about how our group of friends bonded and developed our creativity over the course of our years of RPGing. I started RPGs with AD&D 1.5 (aka after the release of unearthed arcana) playing a cavalier. Can’t believe you got through the whole video without saying THAC0 even once. Plus I recall, as a middle schooler, having a special attachment to the Succubus entry in the Monster Manual. Thank you for bringing up some nostalgia. May have to did around in the basement and see if I still have my bin of D&D books and journals.
Some key things in the rules that we never did, and should have, that would make a huge difference... Every PC should have henchmen, you are the leader of a team. Training and down time, no auto advance. Spend the gold and time to level up. Real time down time, every day not playing is a day in the game. You don't freeze the game when you end the session. The GM and players must plan to get in, get out and get ready for the next session. This also the real reason you have multiple characters, to fill the gaps in time. They also should give some details about what they are doing during down time, such as training. All of these are very hard to do. In addition AD&D is an outgrowth of Chainmail wargame rules. The game is the skirmish level of Chainmail. If played with the above factors the game will be very much harder to sustain but I suspect it will be far more rewarding of an experience.
I’ve read about, and watched videos about, much more than I’ve played D&D. I played a couple of times last year with a group of knobheads and it soured me on it. Wish I’d gotten into it years ago, feels like I missed out a bit. Love that artwork in the older manuals - crude, less polished and grotesque at times, but dripping with atmosphere - good video mate!
The thing about early D&D is it let players create what lever they wanted whereas today there’s a load of diktat being passed down from ivory towers. I have everything 5e and it is (was) a good system. Last year or so it’s gone right downhill with lazy writing and poor quality production. Will probably end up selling it all.
Surely all that bullshit can be ignored though - as long as you’ve the right group to play with, the game can be played in the same spirit as it was back then. Did you ever create your own modules?
I first played AD&D 2nd back in 1996 and played it regularly until 3rd came out (I didn't particularly care for it, but the DM loved it) and played that regularly until 4th came out, my group stayed on 3.5 and played sporadically for the next few years until I moved away 10 years ago and wasn't able to play until I started a new group about a month ago, I kinda like 5th so far.
Love the breakdown of First Edition. My gaming buddies and I all started on 2nd edition and that's the game I remember from my youth. I think we might have appreciated some of freedom you mentioned in First Edition a bit more as 2nd, even with more concrete rules, seemed to always get house ruled by my group to do away with the minutiae of the battle system.
15:31 had me on the floor laughing so hard, I needed air badly. OMG the memories of feeling the exact same way are coming back to me like a flash flood.
This was the best review of anything I have ever heard. I agreed with everything you said, especially the flaws. Thanks for teaching the kids about it. Thanks for making me understand why I always felt it was the best. I played from the late 70s to the mid nineties with the same group and the best game master of all time. Mind you, we played other amazing games that we loved and cherished, like Battletech (FASA version) - including Spacebattles space travel and combat and Mechwarrior, Star Frontiers, (which used Car Wars driving rules) - including Knight Hawks space travel and combat, Top Secret (also 1st edition), Twilight: 2000, Champions, Gamma World, GURPS, Paranoia and many many others. Axis and Allies, Gammarauders and Shogun (later known as Samurai Swords) and were our main board games.
Kids have no idea where their games came from. They just seem to punch down these days. They can keep their Strixhaven D&D Harry Potter and I’ll keep my 1HP on a D4 with no Armour.
@@BoardGameBollocks You're a hard man. Lol. I agree. I would rather sit through an hour of monologue just for a few die rolls and a few laughs. Something is missing from online games. In generations before mine, people gathered regularly for Bridge night. RPGs are way better, but the same social concept.
@@BoardGameBollocks Each subsequent edition of the rules gets worse. 5e is nauseating. First level characters in 5e are more powerful than most of our Champions superheroes. If there are 100 UA-cam videos explaining why a 5e rule is broken, then 5e is broken.
Just found this and love your take on it! Though AD&D is a bit of a mess, there's no arguing that it makes roleplaying fun. The OSR has updated and reorganized the rules so that it makes more sense, but keeps the sense of regular people facing death. Lots of room for heroism.
It was a different time and newer type of game , a bit gritty and rrough around the edges. I quite enjoyed it.It made you think and invole the whole party and that was just to stay alive . No safe spaces here, it was fun .
I played the original Dungeons and Dragons and migrated to Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. Played 1st edition since high school back in 1980. Now my kids play it.
very informative. Im looking to join a group that use 1e and 2e and would appreciate advice towards what books I want to put on a list to invest in. my goal is to not be oblivious on a budget. My goal is to annoy the DM as much as possible with cheeky tricks.
Hey great video I love A&D 1e started in the late 70s while in Marines still have all the books even the paper back ones DMing a game was great fun really enjoyed running a game but sad can't find any one wanting to play any more
Answer yes it is :-P but if people dont want to use the book you can use a more modern day OSR system (all are based off older systems) and run pretty much from basic up to AD&D 2th Ed with little changes nevermind the countless other adventures made by people to this day and over the decades. :-) I am using Shadowdark to run an ORSIC (AD&D) made megadungeon with a mix of my own homerules and stuff from OSRIC I like alot! its turning into a Modded AD&D ruleset and I am loving it. Older editions are so much better imo its why I like OSR type stuff (also games like DCC are also amazing as a game can run 3rd Edition stuff through it just use the DCC magic as its insane ha)
The differences between 1st and 5th edition are palpable and measurable. In 5th, it is almost impossible to die. In 1st, death was ever present, and you had to play cautious and clever to survive. In 5th, everyone is the same. Their attack roll bonus is going to be exactly the same as everyone else in their groiup unless they purposefully nerf themselves. In 1st edition, some people were better at certain things then others, much like in real life. Moving forward into nonweapon proficiencies, every stat point counted toward success in skill checks. As far as the amorphous side of the games, 5th edition is too polished and to clean and everyone is a super hero. In 1st edition, it was gritty and dark, and you might be a hero...if you survive. That in and of itself in the difference. In 1st edition, by surviving you earned your place. In 5th, everyone live, so nothing is earned.
I had every book, and over 30 modules, years of Dragon Magazine (wow I miss those). Several women later they're all gone. I'm 50 now and find myself wanting to spend a fortune to re purchase old stuff I used to own over the web.
I suppose I'm definitely part of the minority when I say I love the original edition of Dungeons and dragons. Mostly because dying is part of the fun at least to me! The fact that you can flail in swing crazy wild and carefree and right before you die you give the biggest strongest monsters out there the worst time of my life!!!!!! The surviving members of my team would usually appreciate that because things become a lot easier after I'm dead......... I get it I'm part of the minority But then again, I'm used to being the minority 😁🇲🇽👩🎤💯
Look into Castles & Crusades! It's the D&D 3rd that never was - take or leave any rules as you want, but the simplicity of 1st/2nd edition, but without a THAC0 in sight.....
@@BoardGameBollocks I sure am. But it is reality.....middle school was the height of my D and D days and that was 1983-1986, YOM was a youth center next to the school with after school programs and we had a DM who was writing a Fantasy Novel who taught us. My character was originally named "NART" and he changed it to the much cooler Narthorian, an elf.
AD&D was complex, but so is life. THAC0 was a pain at first, but an easier when you get it. I have been a fan of D&D/AD&D since 1979 til 4 ed. 5th is a sickening example of consumerism. Sure, if you want to start D&D, and never experienced it before, go with 5th. I have an almost complete set of Orange Spined books in great condition only missing The Manual of the Planes. They are the most precious thing I own. AD&D again can be as complicated or easy as can be, brutal or gentle. Honestly, any game can do that. What is important is the world you can create for your players.
@@BoardGameBollocks I think the softer 5E has probably gone some way to increasing D&D's popularity with the ladies and thus overall sales are up. Unfortunately (IMO) that has also translated to the art which is often a muddy water coloured, pastel mess. However, many might argue that contrasts the hard-edged, over the top exaggerated Wayne Reynolds style of 4E. One of the things I hope to **** they change with 5.5E are the ****ing near-invisible page numbers because some muppet thought making them a faded grey, tiny font on an off-white page was a good idea. As regards a super-hero feel, D&D has gradually moved away from its old school roots. With the addition of feats and skills etc., no one wants to be spending an hour on character creation only to see their character get killed by the first goblin rolling high on damage.
That was what made 1E the best system. It was the clear and present danger of death at every turn. 5E makes death impractical and a nuisance. It’s now a game show rather than a game. D&D has always reflected the lives of its creators which is why it’s now a corporate money making scheme which tries to incorporate the real life experiences of its players rather than a fantasy game where you were free to forget that.
anyone hesitating on should i try this game or revisit this game: do not hesitate! I previously played in the early 80's, until late 2018,... the other players were the same to,... 18 x d6 later ....everyone is creeping along a narrow low passage illuminated by flickering torch light, the sound of water dripping all around, in the distance you see an archway....
AD&D had way cooler artwork too from my perspective. Modern fantasy art is too busy and overcomplicated and, honestly, a bit soulless and lacking real charm.
Thank You! I started with it, I loved it then and I love it now. I could type screens worth of why this system rocked but I think the biggest part was that even though everyone now complains about the charts and math we didn't allow that to get in the way of the story. We used maybe 30%-40% of the rule set and got on fine. And unlike later versions it didn't suffer from splat book overkill. Yes, there were modules but we rarely bought them (only for parts most of the time) more often than not using stuff from Dragon magazine, White Dwarf and whatever else we could scrounge. I have tried to get into 5E...I have almost all the 1st party stuff...but it's so damned bland...all the characters are basically the same now and there is no sense of relying on each other as a team. Back in the day you protected that Magic-User because soon they would be able to throw fireballs. It was truly about helping each other and when you succeeded you did so as a group. And yes, the MM is a troubled bit of work but we all liked Fiend Folio the best (we used a LOT of White Dwarf material in our sessions...Necromancer anyone?) so that wasn't an issue. We added from everywhere. In my sessions I might be running stuff from Mayfair, Judges Guild, other versions of D&D (the X series being very popular), MERPS, RoleMaster in general, we fit together our own worlds and the three main DMs all had completely different worlds and styles. Good times...
I disagree on the original Monster Manual: It featured *hundreds* of different monsters, *more* than enough for *any* kind of adventure, in *any* location. Heck, how many stories do we manage to conjure with but the lone race of men? As for the demon princes and so forth, yes, why not include them for the rare occasion when they play some role in a story? Subsequent books have introduced *thousands* of different races, so many of them being mere slight variations of earlier ones. Bah! With a bit of imagination, the original book provided for tree-dwelling jungle-goblins, endlessly toiling zombified dwarves.. whatever you could ever want.
I just started a 1e campaign with the fellas at work and we are loving it. Someone summed it up (don't remember who) when they said "1e you play the game and not the character sheet" and I love that remark. Love it so much.
AD&D 1E, ground breaking, I think AD&D 2E put that together, organized and you could learn the game from that. 1E adventures, nothing really tops them!
@@BoardGameBollocks well thats why it was more of a teaching version than 1e ;) I found 1E's use esoteric language and confusing organization a non-starter for most new players. 1E was "interesting" to read but I'd start new players on 2E.
How or why they ever started marketing this for children between the ages of 10-13 just seemed strange to me, especially without a clearer and simpler rewrite of the rules. Even the original BECMI and B/X had a few rules that were difficult to interpret for younger people. It is also important to remember that the first people that would have been playing this game in the '70's were High School and College-aged kids whose hobbies were Tabletop Strategy war games. Charts and strange tables and matrices may be easier for High school and collegiate students to understand, but they would have required some interpretation. This was not often help that we had available to us at 11-13 years old, especially if our parents were "overly" Christian and scared of D&D or were told something was inherently immoral about the game.
@@BoardGameBollocks he read the first three dragons of books, and is finishing the twins trilogy and we will call it a day, most of the books after those first six were not very good
AD&D 1st Edition is epic, modern D&D is soft and for cry babies, though there are many modern Indie rpgs like "Mork Borg" that capture the brutality and epicness of AD&D 1st ed fairly well. AD&D 1st ed and Gamma World 1st ed are the two greatest tabletop rpgs ever made in my personal opinion, mostly due to the open endedness of the system and the brutal lethality, practically found in Gamma World 1st ed. Anyway! cheers for the review and nostalgia hit.
1st edition will always be my favorite. But that's as much from nostalgia as anything. I do like a lot of what's been published since. But then again, a lot of the newer stuff is overly wrought and cumbersome.
@@BoardGameBollocks are you talking about the new Ravenloft "campaign" book or the Curse of Strahd? I don't own either but as Ravenloft is my favorite setting from 2nd edition I really don't like the changes they made for this new campaign setting.
There's an expectation that you can't/shouldn't die today. Screw that. Brutal mortality in AD&D 1st, CoC, Paranoia, Warhammer FRPG 1st, etc. was way more hilarious and entertaining.
It’s what made the game mate. Players there days know the DM fixes thing so they don’t die. Plus the rules make it more or less impossible with rests and being KO’d…
I'm almost 60, and have been playing D&D since my teens. Of all the editions, AD&D 1e still speaks to me the most.
55 years old been playing 1st edition since 1982 and still going and introducing new players to it.
it started me on the road to bodybuilding, fencing, martial arts and archery too.
D&D changed my life for the better
People tend to forget that one goal piece was equal to one experience point, so treasure value was included when tallying up experience points
I'm 42. Classic D&D (B/X & BECMI) and Advanced D&D are still my favoutire.
Same
I think what people don't understand is, AD&D was written by, and thus approached as a system for, adults who were already wargame enthusiasts. As such, when he wrote the DM guide, he was talking to someone who understood probability, general game mechanics, and hopefully if you are the DM, some creativity and ability to storyboard on the fly. That's why it seems so light on rules. If you take a wargame set in WWII, you already know the bad guys, the good guys, their weapons, their tactics, terrain, etc. In a fantasy setting, you don't want to stifle the players' or DM's creativity. At the same time, including creatures your characters are probably never going to run into is fine, because gives an idea, a bigger picture as to where you can go. Remember, the idea of this game is to look at that old map, see the pencil drawing of a sea monster on the edge and the words "here be monsters", and say, "Well, I definitely know where I want to go now." You don't necessarily have to run into Asmodeus, but with a little tweaking to the stats to bring it down a few notches, you can have a devil that comes to Georgia and loses a fiddle contest to a hillbilly.
AD&D can be complex, but it's not as complicated as people think.
There is a lot of reading, and the glossy structure of modern gaming does make it easier to read and digest.
1st edition is raw; there's a feeling of purity to it though, made by gamers for gamers, and nary a marketing focus group in sight.
I still play 1e today, I started about 1979. I DM a couple of games via discord . There's still a healthy community of players out there.
Thank you, I appreciate the video.
1st and 2nd Edition D&D is designed to immerse you into the world by including vital information within the text, not just including it within the stats. It encourages DM's to know the creatures they are dealing with inside and out, to make them feel more like they have history in the world, instead of just varieties of stat blocks thrown into dungeons for players to kill.
Nowadays, starting with 3rd, the text included beneath creatures is almost entirely lore you can be ignored.
For sorting out the Initiative, Surprise, and Combat round I strongly recommend the free OSRIC PDF download. They sorted it out quite well. We play using that.
And Gary said it best. The rules are guidelines. Pick and choose those that work best.
I turn 49 today and began with Red/Blue Box (Mentzer). By '84 I was playing nothing but Advanced. D&D has shaped my entire life; hobbies, games, movies etc. Love the fantasy genre in all things!
I'm 51. I started playing D&D in 1982 sitting around back patio tables during the summer alternating between playing D&D and swimming in the pools. In college we played AD&D 2nd edition. Years later I tried 3rd edition/D20, skipped 4th ed., and played a little bit of 5th edition before coming to the same conclusion you did. In the middle of a long and successful 3rd edition game around 2001 we made the decision to dump that crap and play what we truly missed, Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 1st edition. Like I said I tried some 5th edition and didn't care for it, and we're back playing AD&D exclusively now for a few years. My entire group, ages 31-52, all love it. It delivers the feel we love. For a few of us it also delivers that strong nostalgic vibe, and we all like how its unforgiving ;) ... loved your review!
👍🏻
Just a note: the main reason Gygax started the DMG with a discussion of dice and probability is because it was accepted that all DMs made their own rulings during a game -- it was the job of the DM to be not just the rules referee but a rules 'creator' (since not every circumstance could be covered by a book-defined rule). So when a DM wanted to decide what "chance" a player's character might have to do something, it would be helpful for a DM to understand the difference between linear probability and bell curves, and how to use dice to create the right probability for a given "chance". When I first read the DMG when I was 13, I didn't understand this. I don't think I truly appreciated it until I was in my late 20's.
I’m 55 and have been using 1e since 1981 when my best friend introduced me to the game when I was 12.
Best edition by far
I've played every version from Basic through 5th edition, but I've recently decided to abandon 5th edition and start a new campaign with AD&D first edition. I have been yearning for the game that I grew up with and fell in love with. Every version since first edition was just a step backwards in my opinion. I used to think 2nd edition was an improvement, but in retrospect, I do not like the changes made there. I'm tired of "upgrading" to the latest, greatest and I am forever going to stick with first edition. Thanks for the video.
Good move. AD&D is king
old school feel
Couldn’t agree more!
Do you like b/x or BECMI?
@childrenofthenight8461 yea. Gutted I don’t pick up Master and immortal in the 80s
"A game not weighed down by the problems of today's world" Speaks volumes that does. Gygax would have despised how the game has been managed recently.
I recently sold all my 5e books. Feel liberated.
AD&D 1e is certainly my preferred edition. Two of the four games I run are AD&D. I agree, though, that its major flaw is the poor presentation. It definintely took me a while to sort things out and make my own notes about how to smooth out play. Combat especially requires some parsing before it runs smoothly, but once you smooth out the wrinkles and integrate the majority of the concepts, 1e combat is a thing of beauty to behold. Love this game!
Fifth edition is about saving the world, being a superhero.
AD&D was about finding coin and getting it out of the dungeon and back to town. And it gave you stuff to do with the money. Buying equipment, hirelings, building a castle if you wanted one.
Fifth edition doesn't care about money it's all about your hero getting more abilities and doing cool shit.
Old style gaming you could find monsters that aged you or took levels away if you weren't careful. And aging might make you a little smarter but it also made you a lot weaker cause it tried to mirror reality more.
It's more about the money and less about the story and still cool as hell.
Good video. Loved it.
Everyone in 5e is the same. I loved how it took longer to level up as a Wizard in 1e. It makes sense that it would take longer to level up in certain classes.
I think the open ended rule approach by Gygax really fostered invention and creativity. We played the game after school, around the campfire it was the glue that bonded us together. And it didn't matter what family we came from we were a team and equals in the game.
This is why for me AD&D is the best -- “It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules which is important. Never hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule books upon you, if it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters given in the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons volumes, you are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a whole first, you campaign next and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons & Dragons as it was meant to be.”
Dungeon Master’s Guide (page 230), Gary Gygax
Started with a box set of the Basic D&D rules with a blue cover, the module "Keep on the Borderlands", and plastic-coated cardboard sheet you had to cut into "chits" and use instead of actual polyhedral dice. It was limited but I knew it was the Basic D&D set and there was an expanded and more complex set of Advanced D&D books waiting for me when I was ready. Had to wait until I could afford to make that larger investment as I knew there were multiple expensive hardback books to buy. I started with the Players Handbook and then later got both the DM guide and Monster Manual at the same time. And only being twelve or thirteen I had to convince my parents to drive me the sixty-plus mile drive to Wargames West in Albuquerque to buy them. You could find the odd game system or stray rule book or module at bookstores here and there, but Wargames West was the only place in New Mexico back then that was devoted to both a variety of tabletop wargame systems and miniatures and the widest range and selection of RPG systems and accessories in one store. Had a great little video game arcade in the back too. Good times. And I'd still use my modded First Edition AD&D system if I was going to ever run another D&D campaign.
Great vid for a magical game... Advanced D&D was a massive part of my youth, and although the last time I played it was in my mid to late teens (I'm a bloody 47 year old git now), I still love it. One thing that makes me laugh a bit is when I hear kids going on about the immersive computer role playing games of today. Seen and played a few of these myself, and a lot are very impressive and very good, but what makes me giggle is that none come close to the immersion we got back in the eighties from D&D... The fact is, pixels and sound effects will bring you so far, but nothing will ever beat your very own imagination.
Most of those video games would never had existed without D&D. A lot of people these days don’t respect the legacy of the industry.
I have a feeling that Garry actually set the game up so that you had to play with friends who knew how to play. We played AD&D1e at after school care and there was over 30 high school kids so it was a thing. The biggest part of it was design and creativity. We would get huge cardboard posters and just make towns and villages and areas. My best friend would trace Conan art from his comic books and it was a thing. We read a lot or Conan novels as well.
The people I play with would not care since they are more just in for the time together on the weekend. I think, if you had your world and plan laid out AD&D holds up strong and gives you a lot of freedom.
Page 79 DM's Guide saving throw matrices. Still remember.
Great vid, thanks @BoardGameBollocks. Ironically, I am here because my teenage daughter just told me she wants to play AD&D. I played it shed loads in the 80's, and fortunately still have about 10 first edition books in the garage. Need to dust them off and remember the rules. That said, like you mentioned, I was it bit more "in the spirit of the rules", rather than "to the letter of the law". Being a teenager at the time, the books weren't the easier to navigate - but still the best time of my life getting lost 😉
People complain about “Gygaxian” language being difficult but for me this was part of the charm.
D&D nowadays is sterile…a one size fits all tub of antiseptic cream afraid to take risks.
Seconded. AD&D really is the pinnacle of TTRPGs
I'm happy that 5E and their ilk are doing well, but YES our old PCs were indeed regular joes trying to get by in a hard world! I'm excited that my young son is curious, as FRPGs will do him good (as it did me). Thanks for a thoughtful review!
And our regular Joe's earned everything they got...
I first played 1st edition and got thrown in the deep end with D2 Shrine of the Kuo-Toa! Still have nightmares about losing my mates fav elven thief! (He went to face Blibdoolpoolp in her throne room)!
I now us a hybrid 1st/2nd edition + some homebrew like Internet Book of Spells (Mage/Cleric edited down) etc.
The best system by far
I played AD&D in late 70s. We played at school too. My math and science teacher was our DM and we played twice a week at lunch. I have all my original books. I still love this version. I never liked the d20 system as much.
that's awesome
My favorite memories of old-school D&D was how me and my fellow 10 year-old, knuckleheaded friends would take turns designing dungeons with the expressed intent of annihilating each others characters. I don't think any of us ever got up past 2nd level, ha!
Did you play Tomb of Horrors?
@@BoardGameBollocks Oh, I wish we had played that back in the day!
I think the best edition for me would steal from just about every edition. The thing I love from AD&D is the flavor of the classes and monsters. Illusionists and Assassins have never quite been the same since this edition and monks of course have been a side note since as well. And the Fiend Folio will forever be my favorite monster book.
Loads of material to support the 1e game at the time too, even pre-Internet. GW White Dwarf, TSR Dragon Magazine as the official ones, but then also the amateur fanzines like The Beholder, Trollcrusher, etc. The curated blogs of the day! Filled those niches where additional monsters or homebrew rules and items were wanted.
I found a first edition DMG for twenty bucks yesterday at a pawn shop! Happy about that but I see your points you made at the beginning of the vid. It's a bit much wrapping my head around again after all these years. I think perhaps getting a copy of PHB (last time I had was over 30 years ago) is a better way to restart. Great video!
You are climbing a seemingly endless stairway. You can feel a fluffy carpet under your feet.
You find yourselves outside a gloomy chamber. There is a switch on the wall.
>
BOLLOCKS!
Thanks for posting, I agree.
1st edition is the best edition! Pub brawl coming in as a close 2nd. Thanks for the share!!
The Book 'What is Dungeons and Dragons*?' by John Butterfield, Philip Parker and David Honigmann was a helpful way to learn the game if you didn't have anyone to show you. It also had a small adventure, 'The Shrine of Kollchap' and gave you examples of how to run it, which helped
1E is my favorite edition despite what flaws it has. The reason the DMG starts with all that tosh about dice and statistics is something you already explained - the Dungeon Master was expected to be something of their own game designer. You can't do that in a system as complex as AD&D without understanding a bit about dice and statistics. Even though the game was mostly directed towards adults at that point, even adults didn't necessarily have an immediate grasp of it. You're definitely right about organization being a serious issue. The reason WHY it's so disorganized can be explained (it was still being written AS it was being published over 3 years), but that doesn't help with fixing the problem. It probably would have been cleaned up and re-issued at some point, except Gygax was forced out of his own company before he could get around to anything like that. 2nd Edition AD&D carried over a LOT of the faults of 1st Edition, but it did at least clean up surprise and combat rules (for better or worse, and IMO it was a bit of both) and organize things _somewhat_ better. Yet 2E ultimately still lost a lot of the captivating charm that derived from 1E's actual raw and rough composition - and I think SO much of that was because Gygax had no hand in it and it began to be particularly aimed at younger players rather than adults.
1E doesn't make it easy on you if you decide to play. It was rough and disorganized because everything about it was still breaking new ground with _every_ new rule book, adventure, and campaign setting. But there are actually aspects of 1E that are BETTER than 5E's slick marketing, merchandising, and design-by-committee can give. When 5E is trying to lure in 1E players by claiming to be MORE like 1E than editions previous to 5E, you know that there's things STILL IN 1E that should NOT have been left behind - they just don't want to admit it. :)
5E has been here 11 years. 1E AD&D has been around for 46. AD&D has been continuously analyzed and developed by people who STILL play it for three and a half decades longer than 5E. It's still worth trying. Just accept that it won't meet you halfway - you'll have to work for it at every step... :)
my dad recently taught me to play first edition he’s been playing since he was 10 he’s 50 now and we have a blast
Makes me feel old. I’m 48…😲
@@BoardGameBollocks hey man keep being spunky and you’ll be young forever
When I was five years old (in 1989), my uncle invited us to play D&D with him. 2nd edition had already started being sold, but we played 1st edition. My first character was a bog standard human cleric. I really like how resources were thin at low levels. My healing was very important when reaching 0 hit points meant death. Strength was much more important for most classes because of encumbrance and no finesse weapons outside of non-composite bows. My uncle had the DM screen with the combat charts included, so we didn't have to worry too much about that aspect. I loved the game but actually enjoyed 2nd edition more because of the additional character options (dwarf clerics and elf rangers weren't a thing in 1st edition), but the two editions were very cross compatible.
Played D&D a lot when I was a kid in the 80s.
Many trips to the only games workshop at the time in Hammersmith & bought hundreds of figures, well and stole some too 😬
Went to Chislehurst caves in Kent and acted out our fantasies.
It seemed everything we did was around the game.
Even Julian Gollops Choas on the zx spectrum ruled our lives because it was published by games workshop and was basically a 8 player game of D&D on a early computer.
Still have all my figures and modules, such fond memories.
Unfortunately no one to play with today but would love to revisit.
New to your channel and absolutely love your reviews.
Cheers mate 👍🏻
In first edition you had to play your class ,later editions it was about cheesing your way around class restrictions
I played Adnd for a few years back in the 80s, as a player and then DM, bunch of early 20 somethings, a 4x8 board with 2x4 legs for a table, hex sheets under plexiglass, loads of miniatures, DM staring down the table at you with his nose in a bong; we played many of the classic dungeons, from Temple of Elemental Evil to the Slave Lords, Against the Giants, Descent into the Depths, Drow series, Queen of the Demonweb (we even did the Battle of Maldev in the web with the battle system rules, very fun, and the battle with the Lieutenants of Lolth sticks in my brain, almost managed to wipe the party, tentacle rods, swords of sharpness, much maniacal laughter, good times.
During covid lockdown I started watching critical role and so became reacquainted with the game, would look up rules and rulings while watching to try to understand the game (Matt got that ruling wrong... and is that one guy cheating... live on stream?!?!?), the 'action economy', etc, and my take is that the game has been made far easier and more forgiving for players. No level drain, vorpals proc only on a 20, swords of sharpness removed from the game, death saves to prevent bleeding out, spell slots, warlocks, and so many stackable abilities it often seems tp play more like world of warcraft than dnd. Vorpals used to proc on a 17 (they were much scarier back then, 3e defanged them), and a 4hd wight could drain you back to the previous level with a touch, we had THACO and we liked it! (once you understood thaco all those attack charts became superfluous), and negative armor class is the best armor class!
Barrier Peaks, White Plume Mountain, Ghost Tower of Inverness... oh my....
I remember the days before THAC0…
It was a guide line of rules . paper, dies and pencil game.
I have recently purchased reprints of my main 5 Core books for 1st Edition AD&D. (Unearthed Arcana, PHB, DM Guide, Monster Manual, and so on) and have jumped back down that rabbit hole. I am have played D&D or AD&D in some form since 1st Edition (1988). There is something to be said about how the spells (generally) had brief descriptions that were easy to grasp (although Abjure (4th Level, Unearthed Arcana) took me a few minutes to piece apart. The complex part of AD&D was deciphering the Matrices for THAC:0, there was a much cleaner table for figuring it out in the 2nd Edition Player's Handbook.
“...bit like sittin in this *** room innit...” That got me lol. Great Vid!
😂👍🏻
A thoughtful and well-structured video presenting an overview of the version of D&D on which I cut my teeth. Good on you, mate! Keep up the fine work.
👍🏻
Best version still. Easily adaptable for dms with imagination and willingness to go further.
I think this is your most eloquent and passionate review yet. Some wonderful points about the human aspects of D and D, and how it speaks to you, that I've never thought about, but are totally true.
Cheers geez…👍🏻
If you're interested in a version of this game that fixes all the issues you mentioned, check out OSRIC. It's a free single-volume rules compilation with superb organization and intelligent streamlining of the messier sections (combat makes actual sense and fits into four pages). On top of that, it has even more monsters than the Monster Manual and more magic items than the Dungeon Master's Guide.
I treasure my old AD&D hardbounds and re-read them constantly for inspiration and nostalgia, but they don't come to the table with me anymore, OSRIC does.
I have the hard back book. Downs a decent job of bringing everything together. Much like the rules cyclopedia for BECMI
Great video. I just DMed my 5th session of 5e, so I am new. I am really drawn by 1e's art and feel so I just ordered the original 3 core books. I am hoping to learn it well enough to be a DM for it. I am just trying to see how I would run a session online with a vtt. With 5e it is easy as it is baked into a lot of vtts, but hopefully I can find a way and people who want to play! So since the books don't really explain how to play, how do you recommend I learn? I don't know anyone else who plays
It’s pretty basic stuff. Look online for resources. Maybe there’s UA-cam tutorials?
Old Skool D&D FTW!
Just stumbled upon this vid. I think your content and presentation is brilliant! I will be looking at more of your vids.
Cheers!
👍🏻
When I was in jail, I taught lots of blokes how to play D@D, It was a mixture of basic D@D and 1st edition. No one bothered us because we were a bunch of literal murders, terrorists, and undesirables. When people did bother us, there was a lot of actual bloodshed, they never bothered us after that. Even the guards looked the other way when we made our own scenery, characters and monsters out or paper mache.
different strokes and all that
Very nice review.
New to the channel, have a few mates who play it but 5th edition. I like the sound of adnd more, seems like there's more to the imagination, more for you the player to fill in the gaps. Good video mate 💪
It took me a long time to realize what it was about 5th edition that was so different from 1st edition ad&d. It's only recently that I realized it is because the focus is in two different places. In 1st edition ad&d, the focus was on the character's actions and the actions you took to affect the world around you and the result of those actions--level, class, race, etc... were anciliary to the character's thoughts, feelings, personality, et al because those were the elements of your character that played center stage--the fact that you were a half-orc barbarian with a two-handed sword just wasn't as relavant. Contrast that with 5th edition today. The entire focus is on your class, your abilities, your gear, and HOW your character affects the world. The 5e player is invested in their character, the 1e ad&d player is invested in the story! That's the major difference.
Hey, that reminded me. I had those two books. I wonder what happened to them… they were cool fun.
I’m going to take a look at Mothership and Morkborg when they’re done.
I didn't start playing the game until the beginning of Third edition but I was hooked in by flipping through the 1st edition books. I absolutely love 1st edition, though getting people to play it is complicated. My favorite system is Dungeon Crawl Classics, which can seem a little looney depending on how you approach the game. You do start off as peasants but the power curve is a bit steeper as you level. But I can use AD&D books and modules with this system with minor tweaks so it keeps my 1st edition books relevant.
You've got good taste Daniel. 1st edition is a great edition. Try this. Introduce your players to it by saying, hey, let's try this crazy older version of D&D and try this adventure C1 It's like a team based version of Raiders of the lost arc. Let the players learn the game as they go. But run the 1e round mechanics (learn them well first) and if you have a big paper pad or while board you can list off each phase of the round. Very quickly they'll figure out, holy moly this structure makes sense. Focus on introducing little pieces of the game mechanics bit by bit, they'll clue in how well designed it actually is.
The system definitely doesn't hold any players hands lmao! But I wouldn't have it any other way :)
Thoroughly enjoyed this retrospective; thanks very much!
Those book covers are newer than my book covers...
You have the first printing which I’m shocked you didn’t know.
I struggled with the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition system. I don't think I ever figured it out. I do like the older monster manuals. I do like the modern OSR systems that cleaned up basic D&D. Fun watch and no sponsors in the middle, thank god. lol
OSRIC did a stellar job of making 1E legible
I do agree. There is a magic in first edition that is missing in 5th. One of my mates and I recently had a conversation about how our group of friends bonded and developed our creativity over the course of our years of RPGing.
I started RPGs with AD&D 1.5 (aka after the release of unearthed arcana) playing a cavalier. Can’t believe you got through the whole video without saying THAC0 even once.
Plus I recall, as a middle schooler, having a special attachment to the Succubus entry in the Monster Manual.
Thank you for bringing up some nostalgia. May have to did around in the basement and see if I still have my bin of D&D books and journals.
THACO isn’t in the 1st edition mate. Yea it’s hard to believe it wasn’t a thing back then.
@@BoardGameBollocks my bad. I must have switched to second edition early on then. To me THAC0 is synonymous with old school DND.
Yea it is. Not mentioned in the original rules…weird eh?
@@BoardGameBollocks It's in the DMG, Appendix E. It was only used for the monsters at that time so most players never saw it in use.
Right on. I still play AD&D. I have integrated the 3.5 combat rules and AC system. The rest is all AD&D. It is our game. Have fun with it.
Some key things in the rules that we never did, and should have, that would make a huge difference...
Every PC should have henchmen, you are the leader of a team.
Training and down time, no auto advance. Spend the gold and time to level up.
Real time down time, every day not playing is a day in the game. You don't freeze the game when you end the session. The GM and players must plan to get in, get out and get ready for the next session. This also the real reason you have multiple characters, to fill the gaps in time. They also should give some details about what they are doing during down time, such as training.
All of these are very hard to do. In addition AD&D is an outgrowth of Chainmail wargame rules. The game is the skirmish level of Chainmail.
If played with the above factors the game will be very much harder to sustain but I suspect it will be far more rewarding of an experience.
I’ve read about, and watched videos about, much more than I’ve played D&D. I played a couple of times last year with a group of knobheads and it soured me on it. Wish I’d gotten into it years ago, feels like I missed out a bit. Love that artwork in the older manuals - crude, less polished and grotesque at times, but dripping with atmosphere - good video mate!
The thing about early D&D is it let players create what lever they wanted whereas today there’s a load of diktat being passed down from ivory towers.
I have everything 5e and it is (was) a good system. Last year or so it’s gone right downhill with lazy writing and poor quality production.
Will probably end up selling it all.
Surely all that bullshit can be ignored though - as long as you’ve the right group to play with, the game can be played in the same spirit as it was back then. Did you ever create your own modules?
Yea I guess…5e plays more like a Disney marvel movie. It’s lost the gritty nature that made the early stuff so appealing.
@@BoardGameBollocks I was just thinking based on that description, if 5e is the Disney/Marvel, then 1e is the Snyder cut.
I first played AD&D 2nd back in 1996 and played it regularly until 3rd came out (I didn't particularly care for it, but the DM loved it) and played that regularly until 4th came out, my group stayed on 3.5 and played sporadically for the next few years until I moved away 10 years ago and wasn't able to play until I started a new group about a month ago, I kinda like 5th so far.
Just wondering if a 6th edition is being prepped for a cash grab.
Love the breakdown of First Edition. My gaming buddies and I all started on 2nd edition and that's the game I remember from my youth. I think we might have appreciated some of freedom you mentioned in First Edition a bit more as 2nd, even with more concrete rules, seemed to always get house ruled by my group to do away with the minutiae of the battle system.
People don’t believe me that THAC0 wasn’t a thing in 1E…
@@BoardGameBollocks if you are ever feeling masochistic, read the 2nd edition rules on hand to hand brawling/wrestling. Absolutely ridiculous
Yea I have the core books but not read them for years. I’ll have a look just for a laugh 👍🏻
It will teach a 3 foot halfling not to mess with a 6 foot 210 pound human!
15:31 had me on the floor laughing so hard, I needed air badly. OMG the memories of feeling the exact same way are coming back to me like a flash flood.
👍🏻
This was the best review of anything I have ever heard. I agreed with everything you said, especially the flaws. Thanks for teaching the kids about it. Thanks for making me understand why I always felt it was the best. I played from the late 70s to the mid nineties with the same group and the best game master of all time. Mind you, we played other amazing games that we loved and cherished, like Battletech (FASA version) - including Spacebattles space travel and combat and Mechwarrior, Star Frontiers, (which used Car Wars driving rules) - including Knight Hawks space travel and combat, Top Secret (also 1st edition), Twilight: 2000, Champions, Gamma World, GURPS, Paranoia and many many others. Axis and Allies, Gammarauders and Shogun (later known as Samurai Swords) and were our main board games.
Kids have no idea where their games came from. They just seem to punch down these days. They can keep their Strixhaven D&D Harry Potter and I’ll keep my 1HP on a D4 with no Armour.
@@BoardGameBollocks You're a hard man. Lol. I agree. I would rather sit through an hour of monologue just for a few die rolls and a few laughs. Something is missing from online games. In generations before mine, people gathered regularly for Bridge night. RPGs are way better, but the same social concept.
It must have taken us 5-6 years to get to 10th level. It was a huge celebration.
I don’t think I’ve ever made it that far…Tomb of Horrors every time.
@@BoardGameBollocks Each subsequent edition of the rules gets worse. 5e is nauseating. First level characters in 5e are more powerful than most of our Champions superheroes. If there are 100 UA-cam videos explaining why a 5e rule is broken, then 5e is broken.
Finally someone who sounds like me in the TTRPG world!!!
Just found this and love your take on it! Though AD&D is a bit of a mess, there's no arguing that it makes roleplaying fun. The OSR has updated and reorganized the rules so that it makes more sense, but keeps the sense of regular people facing death. Lots of room for heroism.
It was a different time and newer type of game , a bit gritty and rrough around the edges.
I quite enjoyed it.It made you think and invole the whole party and that was just to stay alive .
No safe spaces here, it was fun .
I played the original Dungeons and Dragons and migrated to Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. Played 1st edition since high school back in 1980. Now my kids play it.
love the choas of 1st ed
very informative. Im looking to join a group that use 1e and 2e and would appreciate advice towards what books I want to put on a list to invest in. my goal is to not be oblivious on a budget. My goal is to annoy the DM as much as possible with cheeky tricks.
Just grab the 3 core books. The rest is up to you
Great video!
👍🏻
Hey great video I love A&D 1e started in the late 70s while in Marines still have all the books even the paper back ones DMing a game was great fun really enjoyed running a game but sad can't find any one wanting to play any more
Millions of AD&D players around. There simply has to be groups in your local area who are active. Seek them out 👍🏻
@@BoardGameBollocks yeah every one wants to play in 5e around here
🤮
Answer yes it is :-P but if people dont want to use the book you can use a more modern day OSR system (all are based off older systems) and run pretty much from basic up to AD&D 2th Ed with little changes nevermind the countless other adventures made by people to this day and over the decades. :-) I am using Shadowdark to run an ORSIC (AD&D) made megadungeon with a mix of my own homerules and stuff from OSRIC I like alot! its turning into a Modded AD&D ruleset and I am loving it. Older editions are so much better imo its why I like OSR type stuff (also games like DCC are also amazing as a game can run 3rd Edition stuff through it just use the DCC magic as its insane ha)
The differences between 1st and 5th edition are palpable and measurable. In 5th, it is almost impossible to die. In 1st, death was ever present, and you had to play cautious and clever to survive. In 5th, everyone is the same. Their attack roll bonus is going to be exactly the same as everyone else in their groiup unless they purposefully nerf themselves. In 1st edition, some people were better at certain things then others, much like in real life. Moving forward into nonweapon proficiencies, every stat point counted toward success in skill checks. As far as the amorphous side of the games, 5th edition is too polished and to clean and everyone is a super hero. In 1st edition, it was gritty and dark, and you might be a hero...if you survive. That in and of itself in the difference. In 1st edition, by surviving you earned your place. In 5th, everyone live, so nothing is earned.
Isn’t it strange that a game which prides itself on diversity is actually homogenous.
I had every book, and over 30 modules, years of Dragon Magazine (wow I miss those). Several women later they're all gone. I'm 50 now and find myself wanting to spend a fortune to re purchase old stuff I used to own over the web.
I suppose I'm definitely part of the minority when I say I love the original edition of Dungeons and dragons. Mostly because dying is part of the fun at least to me! The fact that you can flail in swing crazy wild and carefree and right before you die you give the biggest strongest monsters out there the worst time of my life!!!!!! The surviving members of my team would usually appreciate that because things become a lot easier after I'm dead......... I get it I'm part of the minority
But then again, I'm used to being the minority 😁🇲🇽👩🎤💯
Look into Castles & Crusades! It's the D&D 3rd that never was - take or leave any rules as you want, but the simplicity of 1st/2nd edition, but without a THAC0 in sight.....
I couldn’t work out D&D so instead I learned to play Sleeping Gods and it’s really similar but a LOT more digestible to new players :)
A lot of kids played tunnels and troll for this very reason.
I remember going to YOM a youth center next to my middle school in 1984ish to play
Showing your age mate 😂
@@BoardGameBollocks I sure am. But it is reality.....middle school was the height of my D and D days and that was 1983-1986, YOM was a youth center next to the school with after school programs and we had a DM who was writing a Fantasy Novel who taught us. My character was originally named "NART" and he changed it to the much cooler Narthorian, an elf.
I still have some character sheets from the early 80s
If a character from a Guy Ritchie movie reviewed games. Im sold
Depends which one you’re on about…
AD&D was complex, but so is life. THAC0 was a pain at first, but an easier when you get it. I have been a fan of D&D/AD&D since 1979 til 4 ed. 5th is a sickening example of consumerism. Sure, if you want to start D&D, and never experienced it before, go with 5th.
I have an almost complete set of Orange Spined books in great condition only missing The Manual of the Planes. They are the most precious thing I own.
AD&D again can be as complicated or easy as can be, brutal or gentle. Honestly, any game can do that. What is important is the world you can create for your players.
Cover art vastly superior to today's offerings and while the interior art was basic it had a ton of character often seen lacking today as well.
Todays D&D is like a super hero comic book.
@@BoardGameBollocks I think the softer 5E has probably gone some way to increasing D&D's popularity with the ladies and thus overall sales are up. Unfortunately (IMO) that has also translated to the art which is often a muddy water coloured, pastel mess. However, many might argue that contrasts the hard-edged, over the top exaggerated Wayne Reynolds style of 4E. One of the things I hope to **** they change with 5.5E are the ****ing near-invisible page numbers because some muppet thought making them a faded grey, tiny font on an off-white page was a good idea.
As regards a super-hero feel, D&D has gradually moved away from its old school roots. With the addition of feats and skills etc., no one wants to be spending an hour on character creation only to see their character get killed by the first goblin rolling high on damage.
That was what made 1E the best system. It was the clear and present danger of death at every turn.
5E makes death impractical and a nuisance. It’s now a game show rather than a game.
D&D has always reflected the lives of its creators which is why it’s now a corporate money making scheme which tries to incorporate the real life experiences of its players rather than a fantasy game where you were free to forget that.
anyone hesitating on should i try this game or revisit this game: do not hesitate!
I previously played in the early 80's, until late 2018,... the other players were the same to,... 18 x d6 later
....everyone is creeping along a narrow low passage illuminated by flickering torch light, the sound of water dripping all around, in the distance you see an archway....
AD&D had way cooler artwork too from my perspective. Modern fantasy art is too busy and overcomplicated and, honestly, a bit soulless and lacking real charm.
Great video 😊 Basic/Expert was my game back in the day, but Dungeon Crawl Classics really tries to capture the AD&D first edition magic.
Yea I started with BECMI and moved over after the Companion set. Wish I had the masters and immortals to complete the series.
Awesome channel. You remind me of Jason Statham
Thank You!
I started with it, I loved it then and I love it now. I could type screens worth of why this system rocked but I think the biggest part was that even though everyone now complains about the charts and math we didn't allow that to get in the way of the story. We used maybe 30%-40% of the rule set and got on fine. And unlike later versions it didn't suffer from splat book overkill. Yes, there were modules but we rarely bought them (only for parts most of the time) more often than not using stuff from Dragon magazine, White Dwarf and whatever else we could scrounge.
I have tried to get into 5E...I have almost all the 1st party stuff...but it's so damned bland...all the characters are basically the same now and there is no sense of relying on each other as a team. Back in the day you protected that Magic-User because soon they would be able to throw fireballs. It was truly about helping each other and when you succeeded you did so as a group.
And yes, the MM is a troubled bit of work but we all liked Fiend Folio the best (we used a LOT of White Dwarf material in our sessions...Necromancer anyone?) so that wasn't an issue. We added from everywhere. In my sessions I might be running stuff from Mayfair, Judges Guild, other versions of D&D (the X series being very popular), MERPS, RoleMaster in general, we fit together our own worlds and the three main DMs all had completely different worlds and styles.
Good times...
Thanks for the detailed insight mate…👍🏻
I disagree on the original Monster Manual: It featured *hundreds* of different monsters, *more* than enough for *any* kind of adventure, in *any* location. Heck, how many stories do we manage to conjure with but the lone race of men? As for the demon princes and so forth, yes, why not include them for the rare occasion when they play some role in a story?
Subsequent books have introduced *thousands* of different races, so many of them being mere slight variations of earlier ones. Bah! With a bit of imagination, the original book provided for tree-dwelling jungle-goblins, endlessly toiling zombified dwarves.. whatever you could ever want.
I just started a 1e campaign with the fellas at work and we are loving it. Someone summed it up (don't remember who) when they said "1e you play the game and not the character sheet" and I love that remark. Love it so much.
👏🏻✊🏻
AD&D 1E, ground breaking, I think AD&D 2E put that together, organized and you could learn the game from that. 1E adventures, nothing really tops them!
Not a fan of 2e. Can across as too sterile.
@@BoardGameBollocks well thats why it was more of a teaching version than 1e ;) I found 1E's use esoteric language and confusing organization a non-starter for most new players.
1E was "interesting" to read but I'd start new players on 2E.
How or why they ever started marketing this for children between the ages of 10-13 just seemed strange to me, especially without a clearer and simpler rewrite of the rules. Even the original BECMI and B/X had a few rules that were difficult to interpret for younger people.
It is also important to remember that the first people that would have been playing this game in the '70's were High School and College-aged kids whose hobbies were Tabletop Strategy war games. Charts and strange tables and matrices may be easier for High school and collegiate students to understand, but they would have required some interpretation. This was not often help that we had available to us at 11-13 years old, especially if our parents were "overly" Christian and scared of D&D or were told something was inherently immoral about the game.
I always remember struggling with the movement rules and rounds vs turns when I was 10.
Did you read the Dragonlance Books or play the modules?
I read the books and played the first module
@@BoardGameBollocks my son is finishing up the first 6 books now
Brings back memories those “Dragons of…” books
@@BoardGameBollocks he read the first three dragons of books, and is finishing the twins trilogy and we will call it a day, most of the books after those first six were not very good
Have you read Sword of Shanara?
This makes me want to find and start a new Baldur's Gate campaign... I wonder if it is on Steam?
What’s Steam?
AD&D 1st Edition is epic, modern D&D is soft and for cry babies, though there are many modern Indie rpgs like "Mork Borg" that capture the brutality and epicness of AD&D 1st ed fairly well. AD&D 1st ed and Gamma World 1st ed are the two greatest tabletop rpgs ever made in my personal opinion, mostly due to the open endedness of the system and the brutal lethality, practically found in Gamma World 1st ed. Anyway! cheers for the review and nostalgia hit.
We learned in what was basically an after school program.
1st edition will always be my favorite. But that's as much from nostalgia as anything. I do like a lot of what's been published since. But then again, a lot of the newer stuff is overly wrought and cumbersome.
26 books for 5e so far. Much of it dross, especially the new Ravenloft. Utter crap.
@@BoardGameBollocks Totally agree. There's been a steady downhill slide in 5e's quality after frostmaiden.
@@BoardGameBollocks are you talking about the new Ravenloft "campaign" book or the Curse of Strahd?
I don't own either but as Ravenloft is my favorite setting from 2nd edition I really don't like the changes they made for this new campaign setting.
Yea that’s the one. I hate the term ‘woke’ but there really is no other way to describe it
@@BoardGameBollocks agree 💯
Already have ADD, should really play AD&D.
do it!
Where would I buy AD&D?
EBay or drive thru rpg
There's an expectation that you can't/shouldn't die today. Screw that. Brutal mortality in AD&D 1st, CoC, Paranoia, Warhammer FRPG 1st, etc. was way more hilarious and entertaining.
It’s what made the game mate. Players there days know the DM fixes thing so they don’t die.
Plus the rules make it more or less impossible with rests and being KO’d…