I have to say, I fell like they wasted him. I personally think he should have been the main villain for all three episodes. The star beast had awful writing in my opinion, had good moments but wasn’t great. the second one was mid, could have been better in the next doctors season. Th giggle was pretty good, the bi-generation was weird, I wish they could have explained better why and how that happened, also should have had the next doctor come out in his new outfit and been more dramatic
@@Datkginger LOL. "Awful writing". Pay attention next time instead of filling checklists of what to hate - then you might have noticed they explained bi-generation. Not only has the concept been discussed in various media of the franchise before, they exolicitly point out "You did this" to the Toymaker, and reference his influence also when duplicating the Tardis. Bi-generation is normally a myth, but in the presence of the Toymaker, things that are normally impossible happen constantly. But I bet you see houses folding in on themselves every day..
He was fantastic but underutilised. Every second he was on screen was memeable gold and his character quietly soft-retconned the Timeless Child so... huzzah!
This bigeneration into 2 doctors, combined with David Tennent's return could also be a potential explanation for the Curator from "The Day of the Doctor", and David's doctor cycles back through his old faces/ personalities to reflect and enjoy a few millennia of retirement and take on a new name as "The Curator" to differentiate themselves. This would also work as a pay off to the Curator's line about new faces, and maybe a few old favorites.
I love how everybody's forgetting that the Twelfth Doctor spent a century not adventuring, just hanging around a university and keeping vigil on Missy, before he met Bill. This is NOT the first time the Doctor's had a rest.
Even though he stayed in one place, he was still "on". The 11th Doctor spent centuries on Trenzalore before dying of old age, but he wasn't exactly resting then. This is the first time he's ever properly relaxed for a sustained period.
One thing I haven’t seen anyone mention was the mirroring of the Chris Ecclestone “You were fantastic! And you know what… so was I!” along with the music. This was there in the Giggle when Mel said that whoever he regenerated into; they were all “fantastic” followed by an adaptation of the same music following. I thought it was a lovely way to complete Tennants story ark for those who’ve watched since the revival
I noticed this as well! I'm always listening really closely to the music for this kind of thing. Murray Gold is amazing. There was also an adaptation of the UNIT music when they were entering the tower
At least it was 2 from different points in time, and not this bigeneration crap because RTD didn’t want to get rid of Tennant. But 2 is definitely one of the best Doctors, and Jamie was one of the best companions. Apparently the Doctor has a thing for Scottish companions
@@tgiacin435 Come on, it’s not crap, it was a good episode, it was COOL! It was awesome actually, it was the Doctor, OUR Doctor, unconsciously using the Toymaker’s powers to beat, or maybe even cheat him at his own game, in a very silly but awesome way. PT, god rest his soul, was the 1st “silly” Doctor, and this is something 2 would absolutely have relished in, it’s “brilliant”.
@@hunyesmith03 The episode WAS good, The Toymaker, Neil Patrick Harris was amazing at playing the villain for this episode. But the ending just ruined it for me, I think that bi-generation is an interesting concept but I also think it was a stupid loophole created to keep David Tennant around. The execution made me see that the Doctor just grew a clone and now that's the Doctor that we need to follow. It's basically the Spider-Man clone saga saying that Ben Riley was the original all along.
@@batlord7690 IDK about SpiderMan but yeah, I guess I see your point, I mean it’s a matter of opinion & perspective but I just see it as more opportunity to tell a good story. It does however overshadow Ncuti’s era - especially if there is a spin off but to be quite honest, I still hope there is, it’s just not very Dr.Who, Monster of The Week, & time and space but rather more Dr. On Earth at unit, like he did “back in the 70s, or was it the 80s”, sure he has a Tardis but he’s mostly grounded a mix of the classic unit, K9 & CO., SJA and a dash of (family friendly, as you can’t adultify (?) The Doctor)Torchwood. The monster of th3 week “next stop: everywhere (&everywhen) stuff, now that’s what Ncuti seems born for, & personally that’s my favourite part about Who, it’s an5hology esque over the top stupidity. But I jus5 can’t say n9 to more DT. IDK if my comment makes sense, I’ve already taken my sleeping pills but I clicked on the notification and would’ve forgotten if I ignored it - so hopefully I’ve made sense!
The way I see it, the Toymaker shooting the Doctor and demanding he regenerate was him unknowingly trying to break a fixed point in time (as established, regenerations are fixed points in time) by making the 15th doctor appear earlier in the timeline than he should've. The Toymaker made the universe part of his domain, but when he tried to get the rules of play to overwrite the rules of the universe (forcing a regeneration before its time), the universe had to break causality, making 15's birth happen before 14's death in order to not break either set of rules. That way the fixed point in time is maintained (and thus not breaking the rules of the universe), and the 15th doctor is brought to the Toymaker (and thus not breaking the rules of play). This is because a) the 15th Doctor said he's OK because 14 got rehab, and said they're doing rehab out of order b) RTD said well be seeing that 15's TARDIS is a future version of 14's in the coming season.
I think this is the best (in universe) explanation I've seen and some podster should bet Davies to come on for a discussion of exactly this point. It would be helpful if we were not all just speculating.
I feel like this can't be true tho. 15 would remember everything that happened with 14, so why then does he not make it clear that he's experienced these events before? He makes it seem like he "figured out" how to make 2 Tardises. But to him, he should have seen his future self learn this. It's also a paradox, obviously. And the show has done stuff like that before, but not addressing the paradoxical nature of it probably means this wasn't the intention. I think RTD meant this to just be 14 being his own person and 15 being his own. Meaning 14 will regenerate into whatever moving forward and so will 15, but 14 won't regenerate into 15. They're separate timelines now and thus separate people.
@@AnimeFanOmega This is what I thought at first but I think the _rehab out of order_ thing implies it's something closer to the comment we're replying to
@@AnimeFanOmegafinally someone else that thinks they are 2 seperate beings(like twins) and not the same original Doctor, who in my mind has been given retirement with Donna. It's weird to have wat seems like 2 separate Doctors and RTD is gonna have us follow the wrong Doctor going forward. I cant get my head around this silly story arc. A normal regeneration would have been great. The bi regeneration has just confused, upset, divided and distracted the viewers from the actual story of the Toy Maker. Which up until that point was a decent episode minus the speech from Tennant about how toxic humanity is and the Toy Maker saying Humanity spends too much time annoying/disrespecting each other online. It's like RTD got 3/4 through and thought....let's f*ck this stuff up. Which is kinda wat hes achieved.
@ChrissieBear Are we sure that that wasn't the time 14 was suppose to die? If that is the case, then why didn't McCoy's Doctor Bi generate when he casually stepped out of the Tardis and was shot by a street gang? If he hadn't appeared, then Chang Lee would have been killed instead.
I think they just don't need a multiverse. The Doctor can just time travel to any period he needs to, even if the actors look older its still nice to see them again as the doctor. I'm sure no one will complain if the 9th Doctor suddenly had a role to play in the current season. The Doctor has a time machine, just introduce the change in appearance as the Tardis being silly
But the "cannon" says they really should not be in other Doctors time streams. This explains it away. The Doctors can regenerate without losing their physical manifestations. It's no longer just one "loop" of same being. It is actual other version of a person.
I heard someone say that David’s Doctor could be the one that becomes The Curator, that he settled down a little bit and keeps revisiting old faces. I kind of love this idea. It’s such a simple, sweet explanation
If Russell is going to introduce the concept of a multiverse in DW, he will have to go back and change his own rules. Back in Age Of Steel, it was established that the walls of reality weren't supposed to be so porous, but they did break down allowing Pete & company to come over, and eventually Rose to leave with them. The Doctor sealed the interstitial rips, but something else could do that again.... maybe even the Toymaker coming through could be a way for that to happen. I really do hope they don't introduce a multiverse in DW though, it's been muddling the MCU for some people, and it would just feel like a rip-off in a way.
If he does change his rules, he's in good company. Robert Holmes gave us pre-Hartnell incarnations in The Brain Of Morbius (yes, he did, and he confirmed it on more than one occasion), but only a handful of stories later he introduced the regeneration limit!
It was said before that every universe used to have a Time Lord and you could pop between and still go home for tea. Would make sense in the cannon that universes that still have their Doctor could also do that.
The very final scenes, where he's getting very domestic, made me feel like this could open up the avenue for a proper UNIT spin-off, that mostly works like 3rd Doctor Era. While the Doctor isn't really stuck on Earth, he's very much based in UNIT and... this episode kind of even provides the template. Something weird happens on Earth, the Doctor goes off to the past or future or space to investigate what it's about, and then returns for a showdown at the present.
Y'all are so nostalgic haha but that would be too much like the mainline show. If the Doctor was a side character, like a manager who just pops in when things get really bad, that would have more room. But the biggest complaint right now is "we don't want two Doctors simultaneously just to milk Tennant"
Having two Doctors with very different practices - Domestic Doctor on Earth, working with UNIT, and Distant Doctor exploring the universe - would work very well. A long story arc which eventually reunited the two Docs after many separate adventures would be the eventual aim.
The only issue I have with the Bigeneration scene is: Donna and Mel holding the doctor's hand. Do they realize how dangerous that is?! The regeneration energy destroys the Tardis. Eleven once used it to destroy a spaceships in the sky.
it depends on the time the regeneration is held back and how much energy is there its why eleven's final one was so fast and twelves destroyed the tardis
Crazy idea, but what if one of the bi-generated Doctors became The Valeyard. That way they can have the Doctor become a villain without the Doctor really becoming a villain.
I think that's what they're leaning into. This Doctor isn't the only one who's ever done it. It's not impossible, it's a myth, a legend, something that's possible but rare. So what then? What if there's a whole new planet of "timelords" where being bi is the accepted culture, they exchange energy and multiple instead of normal mating? The show could go anywhere with it, really, and I don't care where. They lost me with Capaldi, brought me back with Whitaker, and now I'm a Whovian again
While watching it the first time, as soon as the 15th doctor spoke I felt he was the doctor. No hesitation No skepticism. He has the energy, the mind, the wit, the intelligence and the feel of the doctor right off. I didn’t doubt at all or feel off about him. I think they made his introduction very well, better then a lot of the others in my opinion. It may never happen that way again, but I enjoyed 15 having a send of of sorts by 10/14. He was very much his own person had his own ideas and plans, yet kept in the spirit of The Doctor. I hope they continue and develop this doctor in a good way.
A thought that comes to my mind is the last words of the face of Boe. "You are not alone" now takes on a whole new meaning. Previously it was a plot point to reflect that he was not the last of the timelords and setup the final episodes of season 3, but now the timelords have been wiped out by the Master I hope to see John Barrowman return in a future series and cross path with both Doctors in the same scene. That would be an interesting scenario given how flirtous Jack has been with the Doctor in the past and tie up to Jacks/Boes final words.
If bigeneration affects all the Doctors and they are all travelling around with their companions in a multiverse with their companions, it detracts from the drama and tragedy each time the Doctor was mortally wounded and for all intents and purposes, died. Yes, each new incarnation had the memories and emotions of the previous Doctor, but before he or she died they knew they'd be a different person, which is why Tenant's Doctor was so reluctant to go. Davies in the interview suggests all the other Doctors are ageing happily in their own universe. Why would they? They'd still be risking their life to save the universe, putting their life at risk and likely getting "killed" in the process as their predecessors did. Did then regenerate or bigenerate or simply cease to exist? As for the memory Tardis, I see that as a kind of wish fulfillment or therapy for the companions, not the Doctors. The Memory Tardis taps into their memories with their respective Doctor and allows them to believe and imagine what it would be like to have the Doctor age along with them. The Doctor like any Time Lord doesn't need this wish fulfillment, but humans do.
I didn't see it that way, this is the first I'm hearing of this interview, but I figured this wasn't possible lore-wise until the Toymaker (they did say bi-generation is a "myth", like stopping demons by having them count grains of salt) As for that, I hope it's not canon. But in terms of what made it to the screen and page, I doubt that's the case so far.
This is the first of what will be many Disney/Americana abominations to come. As with the ruination of Winnie-the-Pooh, they just can’t help themselves.
Maybe RTD just wanted to do a story about self-care and mental health. He's grown, he's probably been through some stuff and wants to express what he's learn. No one has had more trauma than the Doctor so this allowed him a chance to relax and recover.
Honestly it would be great to see Tennant as, like, the UNIT version of what Martha Jones was for Torchwood. Maybe not every episode, maybe only one or two a season, but coming in as an outside advisor and ally to UNIT now that he's grounded. Maybe have him come in in, like, a Hawaiian t-shirt and sunglasses like "DONNA'S WAITING IN BRIGHTON, LET'S GET THE SHOW ON THE ROAD."
That’s actually a worry if mine. That they’ll end up making a spin off with Fourteen. It would feel like them saying “we don’t believe Ncuti can carry the franchise. Here’s David to keep people invested” For an episode cameo or two I’d be totally ok with it though
@@DogsAreTheBest312 There have already been rumors that Paul McGann might get a spin off as the 8th Doctor. If they do either or both, what does that say about Ncuti? They have to give him a chance because every new Doctor has had that period of uncertainty. Davidson and Smith were said to be too young to be the Doctor, Troughton was said to not be able to fill the shoes of Hartnell. Even Whittaker was said to not be able to be the Doctor because she was the first woman. She did well.(Unlike the writing)
@@DogsAreTheBest312 This is a reason Why I think it would be fun to have like a split in a few episodes, like when Ncuti's doctor is in like a massive fight, (not an important one, just a filler episode fight) it suddenly goes from 15 and co screaming and running away from say some daleks or smth, to 14, with the help of Rose, make a fake TARDIS exterior to prank the family (idk why I took so long to think of a scenario XD) Anyway, point is, some retired 14 & family shenanigans comic relief popping up every now and again in some 15 & co filler episodes. Def not in every episode but maybe like 15 is like "I wonder what 14 is up too" while 15 is relaxing and it cuts to 14 and Rose/Donna pulling Silvia away from fighting a Karen XD Ik this probs wont happen but yknow
If I had a pound for every time David Tennant faked fans out with a regeneration that led to a second version of The Doctor, I’d have two pounds, which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird it happened twice
Official headcanon after watching this video is that Tom Baker bigenerated into Pete Davison and then lived on taking care of his planet as an impossible painting.
I felt like tenent completely overshadowed gatwa I also didn't like how he goes straight to just being the doctor I think that the beginning of a doctor's run is supposed to introduce them to us almost through their perspective the doctor figuring out who they are at first is the closest we get to a look into their mind I was so excited for ncutis intro and it just felt like he was a previously established doctor which sure the doctor has been a character since the beginning but he just went through so much identity crisis and the flux so much loss and yet ncuti is all don't worry in over it like what
Ngl, I was completely surprised by the aspect of "Bi-Generation" but honestly I rolled my eyes in response to it. I LOVE tennant as the Doctor, but I would have really appreciated Ncuti getting full spotlight, and I really feel like they are doing a disservice to all involved by going here. I like the idea that The Doctor is breaking his own rules, I love the idea that The Doctor can and will regenerate in weird ways, I even get behind the idea of a Multi-versal-Doctor because they kinda have done that in their own ways since Doctor Who time is very wibbly wobbly. But I'm tired of Multi-Verse stories and honestly Ncuti should be given the time he deserves as The Doctor.
@@alexjackyperson101 Exactly. The Bi-generation is not a Doctor thing, it's a Toymaker thing. 14th even told him, that HE made it possible, his influence and his rules was the force behind it. The 14th challenged the Toymaker and HE accepted, but then tried to change the rules by requesting to play with the next regeneration. Since the game was already on with 14th, he had to stay but also Toymaker's wish for the next one was granted as well, so he had to play agains two. It's not that the Doctor did it, or somehow forced it, influenced it, or anything, it was the Toymaker unknowingly causing this. And 15th isn't a split from 14th, he is proper 15th after 14th went through his life on Earth (the "rehab" thing), but was thanks to the Toymaker displaced in time, manifested before his time came. It's not two Doctors, it's one Doctor with one TARDIS but in two places at once. Both are still the Doctor and 14th still has to properly regenerate into 15th. Everything in the episode (+ some stuff on internet) suggests, that that's the case, time displacement instead of a split. RTD also said, that the new "cloned" TARDIS is the proper TARDIS, that 14th Doctor's TARDIS one day becomes. So it really is ONE TARDIS, not two and the same applies to the DOCTOR. Was there 3 different TARDIS clones in the Day of the Doctor, or one and the same TARDIS just from different time periods? Same stuff, really.
To my mind, bigeneration and what happens with Tennant staying, gives rationale to the Caretaker and his "old favourites" coming back comment in the 50th. I think that is where this doctor ends up and makes sense why he's there at that point.
@@tgiacin435 A future incarnation of 11. Which it will be either way. "And in years to come, you might find yourself revisiting a few. But just the old favorites, eh?"
@@tgiacin435 Actually they are going to become one when 14th regenerates ... properly this time. They didn't split, while it looked so, 15th is timely displaced, he is the proper 15th after 14th regenerates into him, but due to Toymaker's request to play with the next Doctor, he manifested earlier, before his actual time. RTD said, that the "clone" TARDIS is the proper TARDIS that 14th Doctor's blue box will become, so if it's one TARDIS, the same can apply to the Doctor. Like no such thing ever happened, right? Day of the Doctor had 3 incarnations of the Doctor with 3 "clones" of the TARDIS. Were they different entities, or actually the same, just from different time periods? Hmmm?
I think that the fact that the myth of bigeneration even exists can be linked to the timeless child. It happened in the past to the timeless child but never to any of the Timelords that received the regeneration ability. This could be why The Doctor and The Master/Missy are so intrinsically drawn to one another as they are linked through bigeneration. To me, that would be a great way to capitalize on the timeless child story.
So there's been some sort of Time Lord conspiracy to cover this up then as the Doctor and Master grew up together and none of the other Time Lords would have known or told anyone. Sounds unlikely. The two are drawn together because they are the oldest of friends and that feels much nicer than them being originally the same thing. Like how much of the past needs to change for a little pay-off today? What story is more relatable and simple? I just don't think it needs more complication. I think the "Timelord myth" line is supposed to correlate with the Toymakers return, salt becoming a weapon, Goblins in the next episode, a move towards fantasy as RTD as stated, and of course starting with the Doctor uttering some nonsense at the edge on the universe. Bi-regeneration isn't real. It's likely just a oldwives tale for Timelords or something they tell they children to scare 'em. Now it's come true because of what 14 Did. Although maybe if they wrote it so the Master was once the original and the Doctor was made from him; I would accept that as an interesting twist. Because then both their names eerily make sense.
What I think would be interesting is if there's an overarching story throughout the 15th doctor's run where he has to deal with the consequences caused by the 14th's "edge of the universe superstition," assuming that that's the reason this bigeneration was possible. He not only has to stop alien threats, but also sort of "patch up the universe."
Yeah there multiple mentions of myths becoming reality, from The Toymaker barging his way into the universe to Bi-generation becoming a reality. Also in the music video they just released they specifically mention that the Goblin King is not a myth but a reality so I really think there’s something there.
In a show that has always been about creative change, it is sad there are so many that take issue with new directions. I wonder how those people yelling "agenda" would have reacted to the Valyard being revealed to be a future incarnation of the Doctor in ToaTL. The bigeneration allows the show to be happy again. It has been so heavy in sadness, grief and loss since the Time War. Finally, we can have DW be joyous without feeling like that is a non sequitur.
Literally this feels like Davies desperately trying to fill in plot-holes in the greater lore that Chibnall left when he was gutting the show on the floor
I really liked Ncuti Gatwa's entrance as 15. He came in with a bolshy confidence you never see. Most regenerations there's and air of confusion but Ncuti was like, "I've arrived" then straight in to action!
@oscarsmusiclab7201 @rutepereira7628 Did neither of you see The Timeless Child? There were incarnations before Hartnell and regardless of if it's good it still exists.
My only concern with this story is if the 14th is on earth, is there really any reason for 15 to come "save" the day? Like, 14 won't let the world burn but time will tell
14 i supposed to taking a breather, so I don't expect there to much of him jumping into action since he seems to sort of accepted "retirement" - My thoughts on 14th is he eventually becomes The Curator.
I commented on the same thing. I guess, since it was stated that 14 still liked to take trips in the Tardis, it could be said he is in another time and therefore wouldn't be aware of whatever new plight has befallen the earth. I only seeing that work 1 maybe 2 times before it is just silly.
I want just one 5-min cameo with Billie Piper and David Tennant in the other universe. Just a married couple on the couch trying to figure out their Netflix password or Rose trying to describe to him what’s happening in some trash reality show.
I want an episode with multiple returning Doctor actors, but not utilize timeline displacement. In the universe in which the Metacrisis Doctor and Rose settle down, Rose Tyler was never born. Rose was a critical part of bringing the Doctor out of his post-Time War funk. So assuming that that universe also had a Time War, the Doctor of that universe could turn out very different. I want Meta-Crisis Doctor and Rose to flee to the prime universe to warn the Doctor that the Valeyard is coming. When the Valeyard arrives, he's played by Matt Smith. The Valeyard is on his last life (either he's not the Timeless Child of his universe, or it's a hoax in both) and wants to steal lives from the Doctor. At some point they travel back in time to ancient Rome and encounter Caecilius played by Peter Capaldi in a brief cameo. In the end, the Meta-crisis Doctor is mortally wounded. But Doctor Prime manages to reverse the process the Valeyard was using to drain his lives, which drains the Valeyard's last life instead. Doctor Prime uses this energy to heal the Meta-crisis Doctor, and hints that there might be enough residual energy to allow him to regenerate sometime in the future. Meta-crisis Doctor and Rose take the Valeyard's Tardis and return home. When they arrive, Jodie Whitaker greets them and plants one on Rose, while Meta-crisis goes "What?!"
I think bi-generation breaks the rule, "we're the same person, just in a new body". The 2 Doctors will now have totally different experiences and can never be called the same person just in different bodies. That seems just as lore breaking as the timeless child.
Idk how it was activated, but Bigeneration was a myth in their world, but the Toymaker is here so ANYTHING is possible So maybe Tenth was wishing he could regenerate like Bigeneration And it worked! I honestly love it, it’s not bad at all
I'm a bit confused where in Dr Who was Bigeneration mentioned? Or was this mentioned in some spin off book which most people have not even read? As many are talking about it as common knowledge. But I don't ever recall it in Classic Who.
For me I was ok with the Bi-Generation as a one off but it's RTDs elaborated description I have a problem with because what happens when Ncuti leaves the show? Regeneration had a purpose... If every doctor is immortal how can the show be handed to the next doctor...
I really hope Russel misspoke or meant something Different. (also cobsidering in the Script they say, it never happened before, how could it Happen before in the doctor's own timestream
@@TheSamtheman081 - Timeless Children and the bad writing during the x+13th Doctor's run already ruined it. The show would have been cancelled without Disney paying for 2 seasons. Now it just gives RTD time to thoroughly desecrate the corpse before the inevitable. Sigh, with bi-generation we can't even use x anymore. Someone needs to create an equation for referencing the Doctors.
@@mandorrandom117 Well, what he said is: there's a multiverse, a Doctorverse, where each regeneration of the Doctor Bi-generated at some point, like not all at once and not all in the same universe, so there's not a multitude of Doctor's running in the main universe, there's one version of each Doctor's regeneration in their own "alternate" universe with say 8th Doctor still running and doing stuff, while others regenrated the usual way, and then there's another with 9th, then another with 10th and so on. Each having their own where at some point their regenerations Bi-generated. That's, what he said. Maybe not word for word, but I guess that's the general idea.
"I think, at the end of the day, what it comes down to is how well a story is told." As a life-long Whovian (4 is My Doctor--I sneaked out of bed on Saturday nights to turn on the TV at the lowest possible volume so Mum wouldn't hear it, but one that could still be heard from behind the sofa) and someone who has often focused on and been caught up in The Details of DW, this sentence shook me. We are often so focused on trying to make the story make sense in the context of the DW Universe--"well, how could that happen? there was this detail in series X, episode Y where they clearly stated that *this* was canon..." You have given me the gift of being able to enjoy the series as I did when I was a kid (this time on the sofa, not behind it) FOR THE STORY. I will continue voraciously consume WhoCulture content because I will always be fascinated by your insights and encyclopedic DW knowledge but I will also just sit back and LOVE DW episodes as stories unto themselves (and those that have a story arc!). Such a gift!
14th doctor should've died when Ncuti's 15th doctor won the game. It's catch, there's no teams. 14th doctor gone, bam, shocking twist on top of shocking twist, bittersweet ending, and we move on. But no, we got a Disney happily-ever-after ending.
I can't say that I agree. Besides the clunky social and political commentary, the ending was the one thing about the episode I didn't particularly like. It’s so painfully obvious why they’ve chosen to give David Tennant of all incarnations his happy ending whilst simultaneously allowing him to stick around if ever needed. If they truly wanted this to be it for him, why allow him to keep his own TARDIS? We know why. It feels very…corporate a decision if you know what I mean. Also, I know both are supposed to be the same person, but even the insinuation that this new Doctor is more of a 'successor' rather than a true continuation rubs me the wrong way. I always want the Doctor to be one character, not two. Really not a fan of Bi-Regeneration.
@@PuzzlePottage1390 Your future self is always going to be your "successor" in every way that matters, the only difference is that the Doctor has a different face. They also never said it was forever, 14 even says "maybe". Is it a tad corporate? Sure, but it also works for the character. Both things can be true.
@@HellfireCommsthey literally only did it for the David Tennant simps that thought he was the greatest Doctor ever. Let 10 die. 14 just felt like 10 but with the knowledge of 11, 12 and 13
If you posted this before I'd seen it I would of said Hell No!! As I remember seeing her in the Classic run and hated her character it drove me nuts as a child. But seeing The Giggle they actually made her approachable and more human. And I hate to say it I quite liked the new Mel - shame Glitz wasn't around as they had some good chemistry between them
Don't forget The Doctor isn't Gallifrian in the first place so who knows the rules of Regeneration, and in the words of Matt Smith "don't tell me the rules "...
One of the things I love about Doctor Who is that it doesn't need a good explanation for things to happen. They just want it to happen, it happens and it's fun. This lack of need to explain is so relaxing, makes you able to just sit down and enjoy the show without having to hear dozens of director's interviews to explain what they mean, the rules and things like that.
It's not even the first time we've had 2 versions of the Doctor from consecutive generations overlap - it happened at the end of Logopolis with the Watcher turning out to be the next Doctor.
I just hope that Ncuti doesn't feel like David is being held on the back burner as insurance in case his incarnation fails to garner favor. That would feel pretty crummy.
My least favourite part of this has honestly been seeing people's reasons for being positive, namely, people saying "now Tennant can come back whenever". It's somehow worse than the people who are using this to delegitimise Ncuti because he's queer and black, because they seem to genuinely be unaware how damaging it could get. It also just smacks of being unable to let go of Tennant, in my opinion. I really hope the current rumours of Fourteen living out his life, then dispersing into regeneration energy and going back to the bigeneration moment are true, otherwise, it just rings the dinner bell for people who are looking for a reason to dislike Ncuti
The chemistry between 14 and 15 was so good. 14 knows he's no longer the top dog and that deep down it's time to put his feet up, and he's willing to defer to the wiser, invigorated and more confident 15 in crucial moments.
Tom Bakers regeneration into Peter Davidson, involved the watcher, and the doctor was talking to his new self. So I consider this a sort of bi-regeneration
The more I simmer on it, the more okay I am with Tennant's doctor sticking around in canon. There's almost this meta aspect, as if Davies is acknowledging to the audience that Tennant's incarnation was so impactful that he can never really be replaced as the "real doctor." So instead of transforming him INTO the new doctor, he literally put him off to the side and separated him from the new doctor. What's funny is that it really comes down to Tennant's acting ability at the end of the day. He's such a gifted and passionate performer who is literally an impossible act to follow. However, I still do take issue with the duplication of the Tardis. Unless there is a very intentional spin off OR a change in the structure of the show that allows two doctors to star (which I actually think would be a refreshing new take), Tennant keeping the Tardis makes the future a bit too ambiguous. Like, I get that he can use it to take his family places for fun, but if you think about it for more than 2 seconds, that is just the premise for every episode of Doctor Who - he takes his companion on an innocuous trip, and then danger appears. IMO it would have made much more sense for Tennant to stay on earth without the Tardis. If they did that, it also would have been really satisfying for him to do some kind of short callback to "Human Nature," which was proof that he is capable of having a regular life on earth that he is satisfied with.
I watched your commentary twice. You nailed every aspect. I have seen so many reviews of this last episode but yours simply nails every aspect of the Doctorverse I could sign my name to this one. Well done!
I’m a big fan of David. It was great to see him return for the second time. However, I love Ncuti’s energy and charisma. He is going to make a great Doctor.
He doesn’t feel like ‘The Doctor’. He acts like a teenage girl, not an ancient being beyond our comprehension. And neither does he come across as a madman in a box. He’s just a happy go lucky guy, very hyper that’s all.
To me, I just think this whole thing could have been handled better. If the BBC, Disney, RTD whoever was insistent on bringing David back, then they should have given him a full season and a normal regeneration. That way those fans who came back to see David feel like they got enough of him. As 3 episodes feels like we just got a small taste of the 14th Doctor, a brilliant taste at that as David as 14 was fantasic and now he's gone again. Except, he's not really gone again, as he still is alive in the same universe with Donna and even with his own Tardis. So now for the fans who didn't get enough David and want to see more, they can fairly ask the question, Where is David, when is he coming back, when can I watch his episodes? And for the fans who wanna see the show move forward, past David and onto Ncuti. There is now the HUGE shadow of David Tennant hanging over him and some people wont even give him a chance and they just want more David. Long story short, if David had to come back (which I'm glad he did) He should have been give a full season, or two whatever Disney or the BBC wanted. BUT when the time came to regenerate have him regenerate normally, have that clean break from the past Doctor to the next like we have literally every single other time before. Then Hopefully you've satisfied everyone, those who have always been wanting more David got another full season or two they can always go back and watch and maybe stick around and give Ncuti a chance now they've got that closure on David and his incarnation. Then the people who wanna see the show continue forward, get their time with Ncuti without the shadow of David Tennant hanging over his whole era. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed these episodes but Ultimately it feels like you've satisfied no one and it all feels abit rushed.
I think they are gonna over saturate the market like what's happened with Star Wars or Marvel. You will be able to watch whichever Doctor who series starring whatever doctor you like. Then the main series will probably build up to a main "event" that is a call to arms or an avengers moment to have all the doctors come together and overcome. They want a whoniverse. So we are gonna get a fuck ton of Doctor who in the coming years I think.
Actually I’m glad it happened this way. I’d actually be fine not seeing David again because I want to believe that 14 spends the next 50 years retired with the Noble-Temple family.
I came to see David. I am thrilled they allowed him to be with his best friend in the whole universe. He seemed really tired and grumpy. This story is a direction for heart felt emotional moments where we all cry. Ncutis doctor is free.... for the first time ever....the doctor can be two places at once. One to protect Earth and his human family. One to adventure and patch the universe back together....just pure adventure without emotional entanglements. This is what the doctor has always wanted. To be two places at once. Plus we can see 3 tennants at once in a future story.
the point (and inspiration for it) is clearly to give Ncuti a totally fresh slate by leaving the darkness and moodiness of the 2005 era reboot behind. And I think it's great. I can see other non Doctor (eg Rose Noble) people using Tennant's Tardis in a spinoff, but I can't see Tennant using it again for a series. That was the whole point of his ending, is that he's retired and recovering.
Question is: can 14th Doctor regenerate, er, again? Will there be *another* 15th Doctor at some point? Or can 14th Doctor no longer regenerate now, and will die like the rest of us? Unless I missed it, nothing was said about it (as it was for the meta-crisis Doctor), so I guess future writers can decide for themselves...
I’d just like to point out that Newton ‘discovering’ gravity under an apple tree is also a myth, or rather, apocryphal, so the clues were there early on, really.
Ellie, trust me: it was a totally jaw-dropping moment! I had somehow avoided hearing any whisper of bi-generation before The Giggle aired and the scene's impact hit me like a Tardis smashing off a Dalek appendage! Epic! Oh, and I am so up for 'Noble Tales', the spin-off!
Since we have seen Mel has attended the former companion support group, it would be nice to get a special were she invites 14 to one and see what hijinks ensue.
I would have loved a mid credits scene where 14, Mel, Donna and Kate attend a meeting for the support group and the Doctor introduces himself as the former companion "John" and no one in the support group is the wiser that he is actually the Doctor until one or more of Martha, Mickey or Captain Jack show up and 14 is alarmed and knows the jig is up as they would recognize him as the Doctor not John
Okay, but how does it work when the 14th dies? Does he regenerate or just die? If he dies, what happens to his Tardis? If he regenerates, is it into 15 again, or someone different? Is bi-generation a one-time thing or can there be a potentially infinite number of Doctors running around? My Dad and i had all these questions.
My main "problem" with having two separate doctors, not a "younger" doctor traveling to the future and meeting his older self but two completely separate doctors moving forward, is that I don't see any version of the doctor just sitting out the next world threatening adventure... So when stakes get high for Ncuti's doctor they will have to either bring DT back AGAIN or explain why his doctor can't or won't lend a hand... I don't know... Seems like they're unnecessarily muddling the waters
But the multiverse was introduced earlier in the series, during Eccleston's era, and he explained that it was almost impossible to travel between universes, with all the Time Lords except him being dead.
I think it's worth remembering that 14 was still probably within the 13hr regeneration cycle. So it could be a case that the split could have been a result of that in some way
My issue isn't really with bigeneration as a concept, but more with how it was handled. As it is now, it doesn't feel like it is fair for Ncuti. The way it happened makes his doctor feel like a clone of the original that will just be overshadowed by the fact that David Tennant's doctor is alive and well. Ultimately, it will depend on the future pay-off. If this is a one off tactic to give David's doctor a good ending then I dislike it and it devalues the character by making incarnations feel less holistic. However, if it comes full circle and plays a significant role in a future plot, with believable consequences, then I think it could be remembered as a positive point in the show's history. Regardless of what happens, I still prefer this over many writing decisions from the Chibnall era.
I was a little peeved that they acted like the doctor didn’t do the whole settle down thing with Rory and Amy like he’d never sat down for a family dinner 🤔
As each of the two Doctors got / kept random items of clothing from the split, this means that as Ncuti Gatwa got the underpants, David Tenant did the rest of that scene full Commando! 😂
My first reaction was "Wait.. What? No... come on..." but then as soon as 15 started being just as delightful as 14, I really got into it. I would've preferred the traditional regeneration happen first, *THEN* the split, but that's just because I enjoy watching everyone's faces morph into each other. I love bi-generation and the doors it opens to the story and I'm very excited to see where we go in the Christmas special! :D
I love the idea of 15 being healthier mentally / emotionally because 14 stopped for awhile to deal with things. But that only really works if 14 gets integrated back into 15 somehow (and/or they explain how 15 otherwise benefits from those years before they happen). Since it’s RTD, it’s quite possible he already knows how this works and we will find out a few years from now. 😀
Yep, this is 100% my head cannon, and due to 15's dialogue, I'm fairly certain that's how RTD views it too: "I'm fine because you fixed yourself. We're Time Lords. We're doing rehab out of order." (In fact I don't see how those lines could be interpreted otherwise). Temporarily, 14th => 15th, that's it. And why are they concurrent? Who knows? Timey-wimey stuff. And who cares, because the storytelling advantages of being able to allow 15 have a youthful, energetic fresh-start without too much baggage, while 14 has a satisfying narrative ending, are just too good!
Have you considered that they have the same memories but the brain structure for assessment of situations and mood are just different between Doctors. 15 is naturally positive and confident of things working out, 14 is manic depressive and needs stability. The bigeneration means 14 already diagnosed himself and wanted to have 15s mentality, so 15 came in like that but 14 has to go the long way round as the bigeneration only repaired and did not change him. 15 hasn't stopped 14 from being the Doctor, he has just said, smell the roses (pun not intended), I will do the heavy lifting.
@melibabe easily resolved. Its explained in the "The Three Drs" whereby different incarnations of the Dr can just transfer memories between themselves to save exposition time 😀
I took the “Rehab out of order” line to mean his future self (15), helping and comforting his past self (14)…I don’t think we’ll see any kind of merging of the two.
I think sometimes people forget that the DW lore is only there to allow the show to keep going and for us to get a new wizard to watch fly thru space and time. Dont overthink it and just enjoy the fun stories.
@@tvguy61lol that's silly. All it did is say there were other adventures we didn't see and create what should have been an interesting arc to pick up with Gallifrey finally. It was murdering all the Time Lords that was the fuck up.
Basically Tennant's doctor becomes the museum curator from the 50th... Or by Russell logic the curator is a version of the 4th doctor that never changed. Either way I'm cool with it.
And I also agree that bigeneration can be an interesting concept, I saw a theory somewhere that the 15th incarnation was forced to come out too early but as soon as 14 is ready to properly regenerate, he will snap back and Ncuti will end up where he is, like he said to 14 : “I’m fine because you put in the work”, 14 took the time to heal and 15 knows this and is already experiencing the effects of it, ergo he knows what’s going to happen to 14 from now on and will snap back to his real regeneration probably at the end of 14’s body’s cycle, after he’s done all the work and healed himself mentally, and I really really like this idea!
I worry about how they'll develop this change but I will say that the "all previous doctors are still alive somewhere" thing would be an interesting explanation for the Curator.
David Tenant's 14th Doctor could either rejoin UNIT or join Torchwood which could lead to the revitalisation of the Torchwood series or a spin off with UNIT
Would love to see torchwood come back, always preferred it to doctor who and would like to see the kids from Sarah Jane return at some point too now RTD is back in charge
I was okay with the bigeneration up until he was given his own copy of the Tardis. This felt in that moment that RTD was setting up a spin-off and wanted fourteen to have autonomy. Whereas I would've had more impressed if fourteen had stepped away, settled for a while and we could've had something akin to the third Doctor on Earth, limited resources and using what's to hand to combat the threats. I also like to personally think that fourteen isn't capable of regeneration, this is imo to remind viewers that fourteen while he is the Doctor, the actual doctor is the fifteenth. Fourteen is just lucky the rengeration went weird allowing him to continue, maybe with an extended life span but that's all.
The whole point of bi-generation is that as well as Russell T Davros basically telling the fans to go eff themselves he can now tell the Doctor to literally go eff himself!
To me, I think RTD didn't think this through enough. 15 just sauntering off into space when 14 has all that trauma and baggage makes 15 not feel like the Doctor. Why is he able to go off and 14 has to have rehab? Is it because he's a different incarnation and deals with grief differently? If that's the case, then why even have bigeneration at all? People have said 15 comes after 14, meaning when 14 eventually dies, he'll become 15 during the bigeneration. But not only is that a paradox, where the Doctor would be crossing his own timeline, it would also mean 15 experienced the battle with the Toymaker and the creation of the second Tardis. Meaning he would remember all of that but clearly doesn't in this story. I think RTD is WAYYY too set on making a "Whoniverse" and doesn't seem to really think about the consequences that this has on the show itself, and sadly, on Ncuti. Starting 15 off by having him feel like a different character all together is a terrible start to him and I feel bad for him.
He never has to settle into himself or learn who he is either. The question he has always asked is “who am I?” And he suddenly knows. Which will be very different. No pause to let the regeneration finish its stuff.
I'm just meh at the constant "trauma" plotline. The doctor used to just go off and explore the wonders of the universe on an endless holiday, now he is all PTSD because Tenant and Chibnall both think that is what the character is about.
I'm very optimistic about bigeneration and it's potential. Hope it is going to be explored more. Also, a multiverse has always been present in Doctor Who, the third doctor (Jon Pertwee) story called Inferno with a sinister brigadier, and seventh doctor ( Sylvester McCoy) Battlefield where the other doctor was Merlin in the Arthur legend.
My problem with the ending didn't have anything to do with the bigeneration scene but the fact that the Doctor's idea of settling down with a family was settling down with Donna's family, rather than the First Doctors granddaughter Susan or the Tenth Doctor's clone-daughter Jenny. When we've already seen that the Doctor already have a family in the show, why wouldn't those be the first ones that came to the Doctor's mind? It just makes the Doctor seem like an absent father/grandfather.
Because Susan is somewhere in the 22nd Century and (unless you count Big Finish) the Doctor doesn't know that Jenny is alive. Maybe he wants Susan to have a safer, relatively normal life. Or maybe there were Time War related reasons we don't know of. Also, bringing Susan back at that point would have made Donna and Mel redundant.
@@AlbertonBeastmaster The point of the ending was that the Doctor was also settling down to have a safer and relatively normal life for atleast the time being. Never even checking up on Susan or showing that he still cares for her is the opposite of giving her or himself a normal life, since caring for and keeping in touch with one's family members is by definition part of that. The fact that she's in the 22nd century is no excuse for someone that owns a time machine, and while it would make Donna and Mel a bit redundant to the episode's story, she should still be the person that the Doctor first considered to settle down with. We can speculate about the in-universe reasons for why the Doctor didn't settle down with her, It doesn't excuse the fact that the writers didn't atleast bring it up. The Doctor had told Donna about Susan's existence and she knew about Jenny's well-being aswell, and not having either of them bring it up just makes the Doctor seems like a non-caring parent and grandparent and Donna as egocentric for rather having the Doctor with her family than his own familu.
I don’t see how this changes anything. We already have time travel and multi-Doctor stories. If anything, it felt like proper closure for Tennant’s Doctor. Mental health and self-care has been a theme with the Doctor and Donna since the start. Let’s not forget the “I’m always alright” conversation from the end of Forest of the Dead. Tennant never accepted his end like the other Doctors. Losing Donna the way he did sent him down a road where he became reckless. He needed to some resolution.
I'd like to point out that regeneration has frequently been weird. Romana had an intermediate form between regenerations and could model looks temporarily. The Fourth Doctor was observed by The Watcher, who merged with him to form the Fifth Doctor. And then there's the Valeyard, who explicitly split off during a regeneration like Tennant did. What I would like to see this channel address is Davies comments suggesting that The Timeless Child might have been a hoax perpetrated on The Doctor by the Toymaker, in particular the Toymaker's lines about having muddled with The Doctor's history. I've therefore seen it suggested that McGann being half human and any other inconsistency could be either hoaxes or history being altered by the Doctor's foes.
I think what RTD was driving at with the 'I made a jigsaw of your life' line was that the fans have the freedom to build their own picture of the Doctor from the pieces. He can be the Timeless Child or the renegade Time Lord who stole a TARDIS with his granddaugter - It all happened.
We already had another version of David Tennant's Doctor out there for the last 15 years and he hasn't been used in any storylines. This is just another one to add to the collection. Ncuti shouldn't worry about being overshadowed.
@Firepuma27 Which, you know, completely disregards Susan... and her parents, one of which was the Doctor's kid. I loved the ending to The Giggle, but zero mention of Susan just felt odd.
@@KLGChaos Susan (as well as the Doctor's son/daughter) has been dead for perhaps millions of years. He has a new family now. No disrespect to Susan, he just can't mourn forever.
@@Firepuma27Sarah Jane already said he had the biggest family. And it’s not like he couldn’t pop up and see any of his other companions anytime he’d like. RTD wanted to have his cake and eat it too.
The thing alot of people are missing is that 15 said "Im better cause you fix yourself." I took that to mean that 14 will do his "therapy" and then eventually regenerate into 15 and be pulled back into the bi generation.
If that's the case, why does 15 act like this is the first time he's experienced these events then? Wouldn't he immediately know how they're going to stop the toymaker and also how to make 2 Tardises? But he acts like he's figuring that stuff out as they go in the episode
@@AnimeFanOmega Any time there's more than one Doctor involved, everybody's memories go to shit. There are canonical explanations for it in the various medias, but basically like if you're too close to the thing that caused the memory (because you're experiencing it twice), future you doesn't get the memory of the thing until past you has also experienced it so that you stay synched up
@@AnimeFanOmega Why does River Song act shocked and horrified during the Impossible Astronaut, when said astronaut 'kills' the Doctor? Especially when she know SHE was the one to fire the shot? To maintain the Timelines
@@Arrowthorne? Huh? People are using 15 saying "rehab out of order" to explain that 15 went through what 14 did. If what you're saying is correct, then 15 shouldn't have even said that. It seems like cope to assume 14 regenerates into 15 eventually. I think they're just different people know. There's no longer "The" Doctor, just Doctors.
Is it also possible we may have Melanie Bush take up residence in Bannerman Road? With Sarah Jane gone and the house vacant Mel could move in as she gets reacquainted with Earth. She may even get some new young charges in the process. Mel was also a character that was not quite developed during her tenure. She was supposed to be a humorous foil for the Sixth Doctor as she tried to get him to lose weight and drink carrot juice. Something she couldn’t do with the Seventh Doctor.
I actually would have preferred it if this had been used to bring back the Paul McGann Doctor and let him stay and work with Unit, I've always wanted to see him get another chance at playing the role on screen. Also, since there's already the clone of Ten in the parallel universe, which I've always wanted to see again. Still I loved these anniversary specials and am really looking forward to the Christmas special and next series.
I don’t really like Bi-regeneration, but I do think it was the best case scenario here. There’s just no way the main doctor is just going to sit down and live life. The writing is trapped by the formula. This allowed the character arc to wrap up, while still keeping the formula. It also potentially explains the curator. A few issues I have… It undermines the character arcs. 14 was finally ready to move on and regenerate… but he didn’t really do that. I might understand it if he still wasn’t ready and this was a manifestation of that, but that wasn’t the case. It also really undermines 14 actual wanting to settle down. They have this whole arc of telling the doctor to settle down with even 15 telling 14 to chill, but then 15 flies off to do the same thing he criticized 14 of doing. Bi-regeneration feels like it comes out of nowhere, but is sort of played off as something that had always been hinted at. I think I would have liked it more if it was a combination of using the myth at the edge of the universe, the toymaker’s domain, and 14’s desire to stay. Something to happen once and never again. I also would have liked if both doctors were more confused about it.
❤❤ The Doctor rested plenty of times. But I think that even though the previous versions are out there flying around in different times and places, they always knew that they (as the current version with the most/latest knowledge) would run back into the adventures. With a normal regeneration, the older version is just gone and their adventures stop. This time, Fifteen is there to take that on, and Fourteen doesn't HAVE to keep running. I liked this new handoff to the new Doctor.
The problem with such a multiverse explanation for older Doctors is that, unless we are saying that the Doctor crosses dimensions in the TARDIS as easily as he does time and space, there needs to be a reason why/how Doctors *do* cross dimensions, y'know? Moving from one dimension to another has always been a really big deal in fiction (or used to be!), and I'm not overly comfortable with dimension-hopping. It takes the stakes out of saving the universe (because there's always another one to go to). Also, how often is Doctor Who, as a show, going to need to use it? Finally, this concept isn't bi-generation, it's conceptual splitting of reality (a la Back to the Future or MCU's Endgame). Anyway... !
Keeping the 14th doctor around means nothing, all of the previous doctors exist through time and space, so nothing is really different. I'm surprised they didn't bring in the 10th doctor to it, that would have been different
I totally get where you are going with a multi verse, BUT I do think if we see shows each with their own doctor then you hurting yourself. In my mind, and I think many others as I have seen it mentioned This version of Davids Doctor, needs to retire, Much like was said in the show. And become the Curator. As curator his focus would be very afferents from the doctors and when he regenerates he should do so backwards. as in resisting old faces, allowing all the past doctors to be seen as regeneration from David and explaining their ages now.. his focus be very different to gallivanting around time and space. Ncuti has more energy than just about any doctor seen to date so all of that excitement needs to stay with him. Donna got hired at Unit so If 14 stays around he would be in every episode of Unit, effectively making it Doctor who. so I don't think he will stick around. I also really really wish they had stuck with the same conclusion. Him finding his family. But to me his family is Amy Rory and River. and a 2 minute cameo of Karen and Arthur at the end of the show would of been a great treat to fans and made more sense with hm settling down. After al the Toy Maker changed the rules so it would be easy explanation as to why now he can go visit them. They are his family, Donna is his best mate. Also I do think Yaz deserved some sort of mention in within the 3 episodes.
My concern is the effect of bringing back Tennant repeatedly, and now retaining him in the back of our minds with his own Tardis-presumably keeping the door open to having him show up without end. All the other doctors regenerated and are gone; he splits off and remains. I am beginning to feel that the show--as in Doctor Who--has a favourite doctor. That, to me, is problematic. The show itself is the only thing that can't have a favourite doctor. The fandom might lean in a specific direction, we can all have our favourite doctors, WhoCulture can have their favourite doctor, but officially, Doctor Who must be impartial. I feel they are almost seeing Tennant as the ideal doctor, and the rest as secondary to him. I wish it wasn’t so.
@eclbirkeland -- THIS! (It also doesn't help that Tennant isn't MY fave Doctor, so I feel like my fave -- and the others -- are getting thrown under the bus for some weird Tennant-Supremecy.)
One thing we can ALL agree on: NPH was *perfect* casting for the Toymaker.
I have to say, I fell like they wasted him. I personally think he should have been the main villain for all three episodes. The star beast had awful writing in my opinion, had good moments but wasn’t great. the second one was mid, could have been better in the next doctors season. Th giggle was pretty good, the bi-generation was weird, I wish they could have explained better why and how that happened, also should have had the next doctor come out in his new outfit and been more dramatic
@@Datkginger Agreed. He was absolutely brilliant, and I wished we'd seen more of him.
@@Datkginger LOL. "Awful writing".
Pay attention next time instead of filling checklists of what to hate - then you might have noticed they explained bi-generation. Not only has the concept been discussed in various media of the franchise before, they exolicitly point out "You did this" to the Toymaker, and reference his influence also when duplicating the Tardis. Bi-generation is normally a myth, but in the presence of the Toymaker, things that are normally impossible happen constantly.
But I bet you see houses folding in on themselves every day..
Seriously
Any time he & David were in a scene together, it felt like a Hollywood Blockbuster on my small screen!
He was fantastic but underutilised. Every second he was on screen was memeable gold and his character quietly soft-retconned the Timeless Child so... huzzah!
This bigeneration into 2 doctors, combined with David Tennent's return could also be a potential explanation for the Curator from "The Day of the Doctor", and David's doctor cycles back through his old faces/ personalities to reflect and enjoy a few millennia of retirement and take on a new name as "The Curator" to differentiate themselves. This would also work as a pay off to the Curator's line about new faces, and maybe a few old favorites.
I had actually forgotten about that. That would be brilliant!
Yeah but I'm not sure that the 14th dies and regenerates into new faces. I think he dies and reabsorbes into 15.
I love how everybody's forgetting that the Twelfth Doctor spent a century not adventuring, just hanging around a university and keeping vigil on Missy, before he met Bill. This is NOT the first time the Doctor's had a rest.
Pretty sure you made that up lol
@@LoverOfBellieshow did he make that up go watch series 10 lol
@@Idkwhattooputthisas1937 I've seen that series & honestly don't remember it happening in the show
And while involuntary, 11's final moments was spending centuries settling down as well
Even though he stayed in one place, he was still "on". The 11th Doctor spent centuries on Trenzalore before dying of old age, but he wasn't exactly resting then.
This is the first time he's ever properly relaxed for a sustained period.
One thing I haven’t seen anyone mention was the mirroring of the Chris Ecclestone “You were fantastic! And you know what… so was I!” along with the music. This was there in the Giggle when Mel said that whoever he regenerated into; they were all “fantastic” followed by an adaptation of the same music following. I thought it was a lovely way to complete Tennants story ark for those who’ve watched since the revival
I noticed this as well! I'm always listening really closely to the music for this kind of thing. Murray Gold is amazing. There was also an adaptation of the UNIT music when they were entering the tower
Ncuta Gatwa is already amazing and I adore him as The Doctor.
Patrick Troughton has actually returned to the show more than any doctor currently. He was in the 3 doctors, the 5 doctors, and the two doctors.
At least it was 2 from different points in time, and not this bigeneration crap because RTD didn’t want to get rid of Tennant. But 2 is definitely one of the best Doctors, and Jamie was one of the best companions. Apparently the Doctor has a thing for Scottish companions
@@tgiacin435 Come on, it’s not crap, it was a good episode, it was COOL! It was awesome actually, it was the Doctor, OUR Doctor, unconsciously using the Toymaker’s powers to beat, or maybe even cheat him at his own game, in a very silly but awesome way. PT, god rest his soul, was the 1st “silly” Doctor, and this is something 2 would absolutely have relished in, it’s “brilliant”.
@@hunyesmith03 The episode WAS good, The Toymaker, Neil Patrick Harris was amazing at playing the villain for this episode. But the ending just ruined it for me, I think that bi-generation is an interesting concept but I also think it was a stupid loophole created to keep David Tennant around. The execution made me see that the Doctor just grew a clone and now that's the Doctor that we need to follow. It's basically the Spider-Man clone saga saying that Ben Riley was the original all along.
@@batlord7690 IDK about SpiderMan but yeah, I guess I see your point, I mean it’s a matter of opinion & perspective but I just see it as more opportunity to tell a good story. It does however overshadow Ncuti’s era - especially if there is a spin off but to be quite honest, I still hope there is, it’s just not very Dr.Who, Monster of The Week, & time and space but rather more Dr. On Earth at unit, like he did “back in the 70s, or was it the 80s”, sure he has a Tardis but he’s mostly grounded a mix of the classic unit, K9 & CO., SJA and a dash of (family friendly, as you can’t adultify (?) The Doctor)Torchwood.
The monster of th3 week “next stop: everywhere (&everywhen) stuff, now that’s what Ncuti seems born for, & personally that’s my favourite part about Who, it’s an5hology esque over the top stupidity. But I jus5 can’t say n9 to more DT.
IDK if my comment makes sense, I’ve already taken my sleeping pills but I clicked on the notification and would’ve forgotten if I ignored it - so hopefully I’ve made sense!
Not exactly. McCoy has also returned thrice for the 96 movie, Power of the Doctor, and Tales of the Tardis.
The way I see it, the Toymaker shooting the Doctor and demanding he regenerate was him unknowingly trying to break a fixed point in time (as established, regenerations are fixed points in time) by making the 15th doctor appear earlier in the timeline than he should've.
The Toymaker made the universe part of his domain, but when he tried to get the rules of play to overwrite the rules of the universe (forcing a regeneration before its time), the universe had to break causality, making 15's birth happen before 14's death in order to not break either set of rules.
That way the fixed point in time is maintained (and thus not breaking the rules of the universe), and the 15th doctor is brought to the Toymaker (and thus not breaking the rules of play).
This is because
a) the 15th Doctor said he's OK because 14 got rehab, and said they're doing rehab out of order
b) RTD said well be seeing that 15's TARDIS is a future version of 14's in the coming season.
I think this is the best (in universe) explanation I've seen and some podster should bet Davies to come on for a discussion of exactly this point. It would be helpful if we were not all just speculating.
I feel like this can't be true tho. 15 would remember everything that happened with 14, so why then does he not make it clear that he's experienced these events before? He makes it seem like he "figured out" how to make 2 Tardises. But to him, he should have seen his future self learn this.
It's also a paradox, obviously. And the show has done stuff like that before, but not addressing the paradoxical nature of it probably means this wasn't the intention. I think RTD meant this to just be 14 being his own person and 15 being his own. Meaning 14 will regenerate into whatever moving forward and so will 15, but 14 won't regenerate into 15. They're separate timelines now and thus separate people.
@@AnimeFanOmega This is what I thought at first but I think the _rehab out of order_ thing implies it's something closer to the comment we're replying to
@@AnimeFanOmegafinally someone else that thinks they are 2 seperate beings(like twins) and not the same original Doctor, who in my mind has been given retirement with Donna. It's weird to have wat seems like 2 separate Doctors and RTD is gonna have us follow the wrong Doctor going forward. I cant get my head around this silly story arc. A normal regeneration would have been great. The bi regeneration has just confused, upset, divided and distracted the viewers from the actual story of the Toy Maker. Which up until that point was a decent episode minus the speech from Tennant about how toxic humanity is and the Toy Maker saying Humanity spends too much time annoying/disrespecting each other online. It's like RTD got 3/4 through and thought....let's f*ck this stuff up. Which is kinda wat hes achieved.
@ChrissieBear Are we sure that that wasn't the time 14 was suppose to die? If that is the case, then why didn't McCoy's Doctor Bi generate when he casually stepped out of the Tardis and was shot by a street gang? If he hadn't appeared, then Chang Lee would have been killed instead.
I think they just don't need a multiverse. The Doctor can just time travel to any period he needs to, even if the actors look older its still nice to see them again as the doctor. I'm sure no one will complain if the 9th Doctor suddenly had a role to play in the current season. The Doctor has a time machine, just introduce the change in appearance as the Tardis being silly
But the "cannon" says they really should not be in other Doctors time streams. This explains it away. The Doctors can regenerate without losing their physical manifestations. It's no longer just one "loop" of same being. It is actual other version of a person.
Also: We're forgetting the canon of Flux (or if we're ignoring that, the whole thing with Faction Paradox, The Magistrate, and The Other)
9 Will never return unless RTD and producers get fired.
Hard disagree due to Amy and Rose. They need to be rescued from their scenarios which is where it’s needed. Otherwise you’re 💯 right?
True. And remember, 5he Tardis is the crazy girlfriend of the Doctor.
I heard someone say that David’s Doctor could be the one that becomes The Curator, that he settled down a little bit and keeps revisiting old faces. I kind of love this idea. It’s such a simple, sweet explanation
If Russell is going to introduce the concept of a multiverse in DW, he will have to go back and change his own rules. Back in Age Of Steel, it was established that the walls of reality weren't supposed to be so porous, but they did break down allowing Pete & company to come over, and eventually Rose to leave with them. The Doctor sealed the interstitial rips, but something else could do that again.... maybe even the Toymaker coming through could be a way for that to happen. I really do hope they don't introduce a multiverse in DW though, it's been muddling the MCU for some people, and it would just feel like a rip-off in a way.
But rose is stuck in an alternate universe so they slr introduced it
@@jeremiahhardge6968 exactly, she's stuck, there's no going back into the other universe as things are right now
If he does change his rules, he's in good company. Robert Holmes gave us pre-Hartnell incarnations in The Brain Of Morbius (yes, he did, and he confirmed it on more than one occasion), but only a handful of stories later he introduced the regeneration limit!
Alternate universes have been around in the various media of the franchise time and again.
It was said before that every universe used to have a Time Lord and you could pop between and still go home for tea.
Would make sense in the cannon that universes that still have their Doctor could also do that.
The very final scenes, where he's getting very domestic, made me feel like this could open up the avenue for a proper UNIT spin-off, that mostly works like 3rd Doctor Era. While the Doctor isn't really stuck on Earth, he's very much based in UNIT and... this episode kind of even provides the template. Something weird happens on Earth, the Doctor goes off to the past or future or space to investigate what it's about, and then returns for a showdown at the present.
Something similar to Torchwood. I'd love to see that spin off, with Donna working hard at UNIT and Rose off on a few adventures, Mel too.
Y'all are so nostalgic haha but that would be too much like the mainline show. If the Doctor was a side character, like a manager who just pops in when things get really bad, that would have more room. But the biggest complaint right now is "we don't want two Doctors simultaneously just to milk Tennant"
Arakkoa, I’m thinking that’s exactly why they did it this way.
Having two Doctors with very different practices - Domestic Doctor on Earth, working with UNIT, and Distant Doctor exploring the universe - would work very well. A long story arc which eventually reunited the two Docs after many separate adventures would be the eventual aim.
so when they split, ncuti gets the dress shirt, tie, and tighty whities. and david gets what's left. so david is going commando right?
It's Doctor Who. "I'll explain later" is their mantra. Besides, I didn't need to see Tennant die again.
The only issue I have with the Bigeneration scene is: Donna and Mel holding the doctor's hand. Do they realize how dangerous that is?! The regeneration energy destroys the Tardis. Eleven once used it to destroy a spaceships in the sky.
Yeah, I thought that was weird too.
it depends on the time the regeneration is held back and how much energy is there its why eleven's final one was so fast and twelves destroyed the tardis
Right! I feel like they are getting lazy with cannon
Not even an avid fan but I'd say they've killed cannon.
@@nidh1109 no they haven’t 😂
They should have had Tennant give a throwaway line about curating an art museum ...
Crazy idea, but what if one of the bi-generated Doctors became The Valeyard. That way they can have the Doctor become a villain without the Doctor really becoming a villain.
I think that's what they're leaning into. This Doctor isn't the only one who's ever done it. It's not impossible, it's a myth, a legend, something that's possible but rare. So what then? What if there's a whole new planet of "timelords" where being bi is the accepted culture, they exchange energy and multiple instead of normal mating? The show could go anywhere with it, really, and I don't care where. They lost me with Capaldi, brought me back with Whitaker, and now I'm a Whovian again
I would love tennant to be the valeyard
thank you for the reminder that bi-generation (the creation of the vanguard) has been in who for decades... 🙂
Tenant becoming the villain could be brilliant 😮
While watching it the first time, as soon as the 15th doctor spoke I felt he was the doctor. No hesitation No skepticism. He has the energy, the mind, the wit, the intelligence and the feel of the doctor right off. I didn’t doubt at all or feel off about him. I think they made his introduction very well, better then a lot of the others in my opinion. It may never happen that way again, but I enjoyed 15 having a send of of sorts by 10/14. He was very much his own person had his own ideas and plans, yet kept in the spirit of The Doctor. I hope they continue and develop this doctor in a good way.
Not for me, I’m no longer going to watch the series.
@@wudgeegoodbye
You don't have to announce your exit
@@wudgeegurl bi 👋🦶🏃➡️🚪... and yes let it hit your butt on the way out
Bigeneration is already more than a little concerning magic duplicating TARDIS to go along with it was the “yeah…. No…..”
A thought that comes to my mind is the last words of the face of Boe. "You are not alone" now takes on a whole new meaning. Previously it was a plot point to reflect that he was not the last of the timelords and setup the final episodes of season 3, but now the timelords have been wiped out by the Master I hope to see John Barrowman return in a future series and cross path with both Doctors in the same scene. That would be an interesting scenario given how flirtous Jack has been with the Doctor in the past and tie up to Jacks/Boes final words.
Unfortunately he was recently blacklisted by the BBC
Good grief
If bigeneration affects all the Doctors and they are all travelling around with their companions in a multiverse with their companions, it detracts from the drama and tragedy each time the Doctor was mortally wounded and for all intents and purposes, died. Yes, each new incarnation had the memories and emotions of the previous Doctor, but before he or she died they knew they'd be a different person, which is why Tenant's Doctor was so reluctant to go. Davies in the interview suggests all the other Doctors are ageing happily in their own universe. Why would they? They'd still be risking their life to save the universe, putting their life at risk and likely getting "killed" in the process as their predecessors did. Did then regenerate or bigenerate or simply cease to exist? As for the memory Tardis, I see that as a kind of wish fulfillment or therapy for the companions, not the Doctors. The Memory Tardis taps into their memories with their respective Doctor and allows them to believe and imagine what it would be like to have the Doctor age along with them. The Doctor like any Time Lord doesn't need this wish fulfillment, but humans do.
Not Cannon , just a theory, and an excuse for spinoffs.
My theory is it just split the Doctor in 2 and the og will simply slow down and grow into the curator from the 50th
I don’t think there will be any more splits
I didn't see it that way, this is the first I'm hearing of this interview, but I figured this wasn't possible lore-wise until the Toymaker (they did say bi-generation is a "myth", like stopping demons by having them count grains of salt)
As for that, I hope it's not canon. But in terms of what made it to the screen and page, I doubt that's the case so far.
This is the first of what will be many Disney/Americana abominations to come. As with the ruination of Winnie-the-Pooh, they just can’t help themselves.
Maybe RTD just wanted to do a story about self-care and mental health. He's grown, he's probably been through some stuff and wants to express what he's learn. No one has had more trauma than the Doctor so this allowed him a chance to relax and recover.
Honestly it would be great to see Tennant as, like, the UNIT version of what Martha Jones was for Torchwood. Maybe not every episode, maybe only one or two a season, but coming in as an outside advisor and ally to UNIT now that he's grounded. Maybe have him come in in, like, a Hawaiian t-shirt and sunglasses like "DONNA'S WAITING IN BRIGHTON, LET'S GET THE SHOW ON THE ROAD."
With his knowledge, he would most likely be Scientific Advisor like the 3rd was.
That’s actually a worry if mine. That they’ll end up making a spin off with Fourteen. It would feel like them saying “we don’t believe Ncuti can carry the franchise. Here’s David to keep people invested”
For an episode cameo or two I’d be totally ok with it though
@@DogsAreTheBest312 There have already been rumors that Paul McGann might get a spin off as the 8th Doctor. If they do either or both, what does that say about Ncuti? They have to give him a chance because every new Doctor has had that period of uncertainty. Davidson and Smith were said to be too young to be the Doctor, Troughton was said to not be able to fill the shoes of Hartnell. Even Whittaker was said to not be able to be the Doctor because she was the first woman. She did well.(Unlike the writing)
@@DogsAreTheBest312 I would like to see Donna with UNIT and the Doctor to reestablish Torchwood
@@DogsAreTheBest312 This is a reason Why I think it would be fun to have like a split in a few episodes, like when Ncuti's doctor is in like a massive fight, (not an important one, just a filler episode fight) it suddenly goes from 15 and co screaming and running away from say some daleks or smth, to 14, with the help of Rose, make a fake TARDIS exterior to prank the family (idk why I took so long to think of a scenario XD) Anyway, point is, some retired 14 & family shenanigans comic relief popping up every now and again in some 15 & co filler episodes. Def not in every episode but maybe like 15 is like "I wonder what 14 is up too" while 15 is relaxing and it cuts to 14 and Rose/Donna pulling Silvia away from fighting a Karen XD Ik this probs wont happen but yknow
I was just SO glad I didn't have to hear David Tennant say " I don't want to go!" at the end of it, that reduced me to a wreck the first time.
If I had a pound for every time David Tennant faked fans out with a regeneration that led to a second version of The Doctor, I’d have two pounds, which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird it happened twice
Official headcanon after watching this video is that Tom Baker bigenerated into Pete Davison and then lived on taking care of his planet as an impossible painting.
I felt like tenent completely overshadowed gatwa I also didn't like how he goes straight to just being the doctor I think that the beginning of a doctor's run is supposed to introduce them to us almost through their perspective the doctor figuring out who they are at first is the closest we get to a look into their mind
I was so excited for ncutis intro and it just felt like he was a previously established doctor which sure the doctor has been a character since the beginning but he just went through so much identity crisis and the flux so much loss and yet ncuti is all don't worry in over it like what
RTD has said that within 30 minutes, Ncuti's Doctor will have things to worry about again!
Ngl, I was completely surprised by the aspect of "Bi-Generation" but honestly I rolled my eyes in response to it. I LOVE tennant as the Doctor, but I would have really appreciated Ncuti getting full spotlight, and I really feel like they are doing a disservice to all involved by going here. I like the idea that The Doctor is breaking his own rules, I love the idea that The Doctor can and will regenerate in weird ways, I even get behind the idea of a Multi-versal-Doctor because they kinda have done that in their own ways since Doctor Who time is very wibbly wobbly. But I'm tired of Multi-Verse stories and honestly Ncuti should be given the time he deserves as The Doctor.
Agree
But didn't toymaker break his own rules by killing the doctor during a game, the game was against the 14th and not the 15th
@@alexjackyperson101 Exactly. The Bi-generation is not a Doctor thing, it's a Toymaker thing. 14th even told him, that HE made it possible, his influence and his rules was the force behind it. The 14th challenged the Toymaker and HE accepted, but then tried to change the rules by requesting to play with the next regeneration. Since the game was already on with 14th, he had to stay but also Toymaker's wish for the next one was granted as well, so he had to play agains two. It's not that the Doctor did it, or somehow forced it, influenced it, or anything, it was the Toymaker unknowingly causing this.
And 15th isn't a split from 14th, he is proper 15th after 14th went through his life on Earth (the "rehab" thing), but was thanks to the Toymaker displaced in time, manifested before his time came. It's not two Doctors, it's one Doctor with one TARDIS but in two places at once. Both are still the Doctor and 14th still has to properly regenerate into 15th. Everything in the episode (+ some stuff on internet) suggests, that that's the case, time displacement instead of a split. RTD also said, that the new "cloned" TARDIS is the proper TARDIS, that 14th Doctor's TARDIS one day becomes. So it really is ONE TARDIS, not two and the same applies to the DOCTOR. Was there 3 different TARDIS clones in the Day of the Doctor, or one and the same TARDIS just from different time periods? Same stuff, really.
Absolutely 💯% this
@@Croftice1love this explanation, that also makes perfect sense
To my mind, bigeneration and what happens with Tennant staying, gives rationale to the Caretaker and his "old favourites" coming back comment in the 50th. I think that is where this doctor ends up and makes sense why he's there at that point.
But the Curator is suggested to be a future incarnation of the Doctor, not a split version.
@@tgiacin435 A future incarnation of 11. Which it will be either way. "And in years to come, you might find yourself revisiting a few. But just the old favorites, eh?"
@@tgiacin43514 is still the Doctor.
@@lostmonkey I’m going with they’re gonna become one when 15 regenerates
@@tgiacin435 Actually they are going to become one when 14th regenerates ... properly this time. They didn't split, while it looked so, 15th is timely displaced, he is the proper 15th after 14th regenerates into him, but due to Toymaker's request to play with the next Doctor, he manifested earlier, before his actual time.
RTD said, that the "clone" TARDIS is the proper TARDIS that 14th Doctor's blue box will become, so if it's one TARDIS, the same can apply to the Doctor. Like no such thing ever happened, right? Day of the Doctor had 3 incarnations of the Doctor with 3 "clones" of the TARDIS. Were they different entities, or actually the same, just from different time periods? Hmmm?
I think that the fact that the myth of bigeneration even exists can be linked to the timeless child. It happened in the past to the timeless child but never to any of the Timelords that received the regeneration ability. This could be why The Doctor and The Master/Missy are so intrinsically drawn to one another as they are linked through bigeneration. To me, that would be a great way to capitalize on the timeless child story.
So there's been some sort of Time Lord conspiracy to cover this up then as the Doctor and Master grew up together and none of the other Time Lords would have known or told anyone. Sounds unlikely.
The two are drawn together because they are the oldest of friends and that feels much nicer than them being originally the same thing. Like how much of the past needs to change for a little pay-off today? What story is more relatable and simple? I just don't think it needs more complication.
I think the "Timelord myth" line is supposed to correlate with the Toymakers return, salt becoming a weapon, Goblins in the next episode, a move towards fantasy as RTD as stated, and of course starting with the Doctor uttering some nonsense at the edge on the universe.
Bi-regeneration isn't real. It's likely just a oldwives tale for Timelords or something they tell they children to scare 'em. Now it's come true because of what 14 Did.
Although maybe if they wrote it so the Master was once the original and the Doctor was made from him; I would accept that as an interesting twist. Because then both their names eerily make sense.
I liked my idea of the doctor being the doctor which found the timeless child. The timeless child is the master on the other side
What is the valiyard is a bi-regeneration
Rather watch Donna and Davids doctor just sit in the garden and talk then another new Dr .
Honestly, the show just feels like fan-fiction to me now.
What I think would be interesting is if there's an overarching story throughout the 15th doctor's run where he has to deal with the consequences caused by the 14th's "edge of the universe superstition," assuming that that's the reason this bigeneration was possible. He not only has to stop alien threats, but also sort of "patch up the universe."
I think that’s what is happening as the legions are coming of god-like characters and fairy tail characters are coming too
Yeah there multiple mentions of myths becoming reality, from The Toymaker barging his way into the universe to Bi-generation becoming a reality. Also in the music video they just released they specifically mention that the Goblin King is not a myth but a reality so I really think there’s something there.
Nah, bigeneration happened because of the Toymaker and him meddling with reality.
In a show that has always been about creative change, it is sad there are so many that take issue with new directions. I wonder how those people yelling "agenda" would have reacted to the Valyard being revealed to be a future incarnation of the Doctor in ToaTL.
The bigeneration allows the show to be happy again. It has been so heavy in sadness, grief and loss since the Time War. Finally, we can have DW be joyous without feeling like that is a non sequitur.
Speaking of The Valyard could this be RTD trying to bring him in?
@@robertshannon8357 this opens up the door to various permutations and offshoots narratively.
Literally this feels like Davies desperately trying to fill in plot-holes in the greater lore that Chibnall left when he was gutting the show on the floor
I really liked Ncuti Gatwa's entrance as 15. He came in with a bolshy confidence you never see. Most regenerations there's and air of confusion but Ncuti was like, "I've arrived" then straight in to action!
I thought it was good too.. or would have been if the regeneration had been done properly
Straight? Gay AF!!
Why? Because liberals want to erode every fabric of society with inclusion and nonsense?
Ncuti came in with a genuine smile. As a fan of him since sex education, I know he has a blast as the 15th Doctor.
I agree, he was great, and had 14 properly regenerated, and he didn't get the initial regeneration high, I would have liked him more.
I think bi-generation is a good way to explain the Fugitive Doctor. Maybe as a split from 2. But I see Ellie's concern that this could get bad too.
i mean... the fugitive doctor is just a pre-hartnell doctor, not a lot to explain
@@rutepereira7628no it isn't, doesn't exist
@@rutepereira7628can’t be, 1 himself stated he was the original in the five Doctors
@@rutepereira7628 It is a poorly slapped in retcon to a story they had been holding to for sooooo long
@oscarsmusiclab7201 @rutepereira7628 Did neither of you see The Timeless Child? There were incarnations before Hartnell and regardless of if it's good it still exists.
My only concern with this story is if the 14th is on earth, is there really any reason for 15 to come "save" the day? Like, 14 won't let the world burn but time will tell
14 i supposed to taking a breather, so I don't expect there to much of him jumping into action since he seems to sort of accepted "retirement" - My thoughts on 14th is he eventually becomes The Curator.
No matter what, I doubt the Dr could just sit back and ignore alien activity on earth, just because he’s retired. He just isn’t built that way.
Plus Donna will now be working for UNIT
I commented on the same thing. I guess, since it was stated that 14 still liked to take trips in the Tardis, it could be said he is in another time and therefore wouldn't be aware of whatever new plight has befallen the earth. I only seeing that work 1 maybe 2 times before it is just silly.
I want just one 5-min cameo with Billie Piper and David Tennant in the other universe. Just a married couple on the couch trying to figure out their Netflix password or Rose trying to describe to him what’s happening in some trash reality show.
I want an episode with multiple returning Doctor actors, but not utilize timeline displacement.
In the universe in which the Metacrisis Doctor and Rose settle down, Rose Tyler was never born. Rose was a critical part of bringing the Doctor out of his post-Time War funk. So assuming that that universe also had a Time War, the Doctor of that universe could turn out very different.
I want Meta-Crisis Doctor and Rose to flee to the prime universe to warn the Doctor that the Valeyard is coming. When the Valeyard arrives, he's played by Matt Smith. The Valeyard is on his last life (either he's not the Timeless Child of his universe, or it's a hoax in both) and wants to steal lives from the Doctor. At some point they travel back in time to ancient Rome and encounter Caecilius played by Peter Capaldi in a brief cameo.
In the end, the Meta-crisis Doctor is mortally wounded. But Doctor Prime manages to reverse the process the Valeyard was using to drain his lives, which drains the Valeyard's last life instead. Doctor Prime uses this energy to heal the Meta-crisis Doctor, and hints that there might be enough residual energy to allow him to regenerate sometime in the future. Meta-crisis Doctor and Rose take the Valeyard's Tardis and return home. When they arrive, Jodie Whitaker greets them and plants one on Rose, while Meta-crisis goes "What?!"
I think bi-generation breaks the rule, "we're the same person, just in a new body". The 2 Doctors will now have totally different experiences and can never be called the same person just in different bodies. That seems just as lore breaking as the timeless child.
Idk how it was activated, but Bigeneration was a myth in their world, but the Toymaker is here so ANYTHING is possible
So maybe Tenth was wishing he could regenerate like Bigeneration
And it worked!
I honestly love it, it’s not bad at all
14th, you mean. Tennant isn't the 10th Doctor anymore, after all.
@@Soron661 Mehh, its up to the person talking about it. He still is wearing the face of the tenth incarnation, and I'll still refer to him as tenth.
@@Soron661not like you could tell, he was just playing 10 again
tbh I think it could be that the energy from the machine DID SMTH
I'm a bit confused where in Dr Who was Bigeneration mentioned? Or was this mentioned in some spin off book which most people have not even read? As many are talking about it as common knowledge. But I don't ever recall it in Classic Who.
For me I was ok with the Bi-Generation as a one off but it's RTDs elaborated description I have a problem with because what happens when Ncuti leaves the show? Regeneration had a purpose... If every doctor is immortal how can the show be handed to the next doctor...
I really hope Russel misspoke or meant something Different. (also cobsidering in the Script they say, it never happened before, how could it Happen before in the doctor's own timestream
Nope. He meant what he said. Makes everything meaningless. Just go with the flow, consume, and don't think about it.
I think RTD might just have ruined dr who.
@@TheSamtheman081 - Timeless Children and the bad writing during the x+13th Doctor's run already ruined it. The show would have been cancelled without Disney paying for 2 seasons. Now it just gives RTD time to thoroughly desecrate the corpse before the inevitable.
Sigh, with bi-generation we can't even use x anymore. Someone needs to create an equation for referencing the Doctors.
@@mandorrandom117 Well, what he said is: there's a multiverse, a Doctorverse, where each regeneration of the Doctor Bi-generated at some point, like not all at once and not all in the same universe, so there's not a multitude of Doctor's running in the main universe, there's one version of each Doctor's regeneration in their own "alternate" universe with say 8th Doctor still running and doing stuff, while others regenrated the usual way, and then there's another with 9th, then another with 10th and so on. Each having their own where at some point their regenerations Bi-generated. That's, what he said. Maybe not word for word, but I guess that's the general idea.
"I think, at the end of the day, what it comes down to is how well a story is told." As a life-long Whovian (4 is My Doctor--I sneaked out of bed on Saturday nights to turn on the TV at the lowest possible volume so Mum wouldn't hear it, but one that could still be heard from behind the sofa) and someone who has often focused on and been caught up in The Details of DW, this sentence shook me. We are often so focused on trying to make the story make sense in the context of the DW Universe--"well, how could that happen? there was this detail in series X, episode Y where they clearly stated that *this* was canon..." You have given me the gift of being able to enjoy the series as I did when I was a kid (this time on the sofa, not behind it) FOR THE STORY. I will continue voraciously consume WhoCulture content because I will always be fascinated by your insights and encyclopedic DW knowledge but I will also just sit back and LOVE DW episodes as stories unto themselves (and those that have a story arc!). Such a gift!
14th doctor should've died when Ncuti's 15th doctor won the game. It's catch, there's no teams. 14th doctor gone, bam, shocking twist on top of shocking twist, bittersweet ending, and we move on.
But no, we got a Disney happily-ever-after ending.
I liked the ending. It felt like a great way to cap the NuWho era of the show, and begin the new Whoniverse era.
I can't say that I agree. Besides the clunky social and political commentary, the ending was the one thing about the episode I didn't particularly like. It’s so painfully obvious why they’ve chosen to give David Tennant of all incarnations his happy ending whilst simultaneously allowing him to stick around if ever needed. If they truly wanted this to be it for him, why allow him to keep his own TARDIS? We know why. It feels very…corporate a decision if you know what I mean.
Also, I know both are supposed to be the same person, but even the insinuation that this new Doctor is more of a 'successor' rather than a true continuation rubs me the wrong way. I always want the Doctor to be one character, not two. Really not a fan of Bi-Regeneration.
@@PuzzlePottage1390 Your future self is always going to be your "successor" in every way that matters, the only difference is that the Doctor has a different face. They also never said it was forever, 14 even says "maybe". Is it a tad corporate? Sure, but it also works for the character. Both things can be true.
@@HellfireCommsthey literally only did it for the David Tennant simps that thought he was the greatest Doctor ever. Let 10 die. 14 just felt like 10 but with the knowledge of 11, 12 and 13
@@HellfireCommsthat’s a silly take. The ending was stupid and doesn’t make sense. Because they know he’s popular and they’re keeping him on ice
@@PuzzlePottage1390You're reading way too deep into it
now that they done this pls lets see paul mcgan return as a current or doctor that never changed since hes the doctor that got cheated out of a series
WE NEED MORE MEL! Finally, a companion who wasn't traumatized by her time with the Doctor!
If you posted this before I'd seen it I would of said Hell No!! As I remember seeing her in the Classic run and hated her character it drove me nuts as a child. But seeing The Giggle they actually made her approachable and more human. And I hate to say it I quite liked the new Mel - shame Glitz wasn't around as they had some good chemistry between them
@@Mark-nh2hsshe's quite good in big finish as well. But tbf they even fixed 6 😂
Don't forget The Doctor isn't Gallifrian in the first place so who knows the rules of Regeneration, and in the words of Matt Smith "don't tell me the rules "...
One of the things I love about Doctor Who is that it doesn't need a good explanation for things to happen. They just want it to happen, it happens and it's fun. This lack of need to explain is so relaxing, makes you able to just sit down and enjoy the show without having to hear dozens of director's interviews to explain what they mean, the rules and things like that.
Yes! I watched it with my family and we were all like “cool. How? Don’t care! Alonsy!”
It's not even the first time we've had 2 versions of the Doctor from consecutive generations overlap - it happened at the end of Logopolis with the Watcher turning out to be the next Doctor.
I just hope that Ncuti doesn't feel like David is being held on the back burner as insurance in case his incarnation fails to garner favor. That would feel pretty crummy.
My least favourite part of this has honestly been seeing people's reasons for being positive, namely, people saying "now Tennant can come back whenever". It's somehow worse than the people who are using this to delegitimise Ncuti because he's queer and black, because they seem to genuinely be unaware how damaging it could get.
It also just smacks of being unable to let go of Tennant, in my opinion. I really hope the current rumours of Fourteen living out his life, then dispersing into regeneration energy and going back to the bigeneration moment are true, otherwise, it just rings the dinner bell for people who are looking for a reason to dislike Ncuti
LITERALLY!!!!
The chemistry between 14 and 15 was so good. 14 knows he's no longer the top dog and that deep down it's time to put his feet up, and he's willing to defer to the wiser, invigorated and more confident 15 in crucial moments.
Tom Bakers regeneration into Peter Davidson, involved the watcher, and the doctor was talking to his new self. So I consider this a sort of bi-regeneration
The more I simmer on it, the more okay I am with Tennant's doctor sticking around in canon. There's almost this meta aspect, as if Davies is acknowledging to the audience that Tennant's incarnation was so impactful that he can never really be replaced as the "real doctor." So instead of transforming him INTO the new doctor, he literally put him off to the side and separated him from the new doctor. What's funny is that it really comes down to Tennant's acting ability at the end of the day. He's such a gifted and passionate performer who is literally an impossible act to follow.
However, I still do take issue with the duplication of the Tardis. Unless there is a very intentional spin off OR a change in the structure of the show that allows two doctors to star (which I actually think would be a refreshing new take), Tennant keeping the Tardis makes the future a bit too ambiguous. Like, I get that he can use it to take his family places for fun, but if you think about it for more than 2 seconds, that is just the premise for every episode of Doctor Who - he takes his companion on an innocuous trip, and then danger appears. IMO it would have made much more sense for Tennant to stay on earth without the Tardis. If they did that, it also would have been really satisfying for him to do some kind of short callback to "Human Nature," which was proof that he is capable of having a regular life on earth that he is satisfied with.
I always liked the finality and the sadness of regeneration. This seemed like a slight cop-out. Oh well
I watched your commentary twice. You nailed every aspect. I have seen so many reviews of this last episode but yours simply nails every aspect of the Doctorverse I could sign my name to this one. Well done!
I’m a big fan of David. It was great to see him return for the second time. However, I love Ncuti’s energy and charisma. He is going to make a great Doctor.
Which people won't watch. Not the people that the BBC tried to get back who left in the great Capaldi exodus anyway.
He might be a good doctor, but I doubt the writing is going to do his performance any justice.
@@Yamatonix11... That's the problem... DT is a professional.... he's always going to be good. I'm not even sure they have writers anymore.
@@smash461986... Do you think they should "tune in" though? Seriously?
He doesn’t feel like ‘The Doctor’. He acts like a teenage girl, not an ancient being beyond our comprehension. And neither does he come across as a madman in a box. He’s just a happy go lucky guy, very hyper that’s all.
One bigeneration is enough for me. I hope it never happens again.
To me, I just think this whole thing could have been handled better.
If the BBC, Disney, RTD whoever was insistent on bringing David back, then they should have given him a full season and a normal regeneration. That way those fans who came back to see David feel like they got enough of him. As 3 episodes feels like we just got a small taste of the 14th Doctor, a brilliant taste at that as David as 14 was fantasic and now he's gone again.
Except, he's not really gone again, as he still is alive in the same universe with Donna and even with his own Tardis. So now for the fans who didn't get enough David and want to see more, they can fairly ask the question, Where is David, when is he coming back, when can I watch his episodes?
And for the fans who wanna see the show move forward, past David and onto Ncuti. There is now the HUGE shadow of David Tennant hanging over him and some people wont even give him a chance and they just want more David.
Long story short, if David had to come back (which I'm glad he did) He should have been give a full season, or two whatever Disney or the BBC wanted. BUT when the time came to regenerate have him regenerate normally, have that clean break from the past Doctor to the next like we have literally every single other time before. Then Hopefully you've satisfied everyone, those who have always been wanting more David got another full season or two they can always go back and watch and maybe stick around and give Ncuti a chance now they've got that closure on David and his incarnation. Then the people who wanna see the show continue forward, get their time with Ncuti without the shadow of David Tennant hanging over his whole era.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed these episodes but Ultimately it feels like you've satisfied no one and it all feels abit rushed.
I hope 14 gets absorbed into 15 next time they interact. We really didn’t need the RTD can’t kill off main characters crap he does
I think they are gonna over saturate the market like what's happened with Star Wars or Marvel. You will be able to watch whichever Doctor who series starring whatever doctor you like. Then the main series will probably build up to a main "event" that is a call to arms or an avengers moment to have all the doctors come together and overcome.
They want a whoniverse. So we are gonna get a fuck ton of Doctor who in the coming years I think.
Actually I’m glad it happened this way. I’d actually be fine not seeing David again because I want to believe that 14 spends the next 50 years retired with the Noble-Temple family.
I came to see David. I am thrilled they allowed him to be with his best friend in the whole universe. He seemed really tired and grumpy. This story is a direction for heart felt emotional moments where we all cry. Ncutis doctor is free.... for the first time ever....the doctor can be two places at once. One to protect Earth and his human family. One to adventure and patch the universe back together....just pure adventure without emotional entanglements. This is what the doctor has always wanted. To be two places at once. Plus we can see 3 tennants at once in a future story.
@@Chaogod1233 Disney doesn't own the franchise.
I’m curious to know what people think of the theory that 10/14 is The Curator
I don't think he can be. The Curator also had 6's face at one point if the audio dramas are anything to go by.
One possibility 👍 my theory as well
That was my first thought as well.
If the 14 later regenerates into his previous incarnations...
@@HellfireComms HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF SHIRLEY WAS ACTUALLY HEBE?!?!?!?!?!
the point (and inspiration for it) is clearly to give Ncuti a totally fresh slate by leaving the darkness and moodiness of the 2005 era reboot behind.
And I think it's great. I can see other non Doctor (eg Rose Noble) people using Tennant's Tardis in a spinoff, but I can't see Tennant using it again for a series. That was the whole point of his ending, is that he's retired and recovering.
Question is: can 14th Doctor regenerate, er, again? Will there be *another* 15th Doctor at some point? Or can 14th Doctor no longer regenerate now, and will die like the rest of us?
Unless I missed it, nothing was said about it (as it was for the meta-crisis Doctor), so I guess future writers can decide for themselves...
I’d just like to point out that Newton ‘discovering’ gravity under an apple tree is also a myth, or rather, apocryphal, so the clues were there early on, really.
Ellie, trust me: it was a totally jaw-dropping moment! I had somehow avoided hearing any whisper of bi-generation before The Giggle aired and the scene's impact hit me like a Tardis smashing off a Dalek appendage! Epic! Oh, and I am so up for 'Noble Tales', the spin-off!
Since we have seen Mel has attended the former companion support group, it would be nice to get a special were she invites 14 to one and see what hijinks ensue.
I would have loved a mid credits scene where 14, Mel, Donna and Kate attend a meeting for the support group and the Doctor introduces himself as the former companion "John" and no one in the support group is the wiser that he is actually the Doctor until one or more of Martha, Mickey or Captain Jack show up and 14 is alarmed and knows the jig is up as they would recognize him as the Doctor not John
I loved the Allons-Y (let's go), and his surprise when the regeneration stopped. A classic Tennant moment.
Okay, but how does it work when the 14th dies? Does he regenerate or just die? If he dies, what happens to his Tardis? If he regenerates, is it into 15 again, or someone different? Is bi-generation a one-time thing or can there be a potentially infinite number of Doctors running around? My Dad and i had all these questions.
My main "problem" with having two separate doctors, not a "younger" doctor traveling to the future and meeting his older self but two completely separate doctors moving forward, is that I don't see any version of the doctor just sitting out the next world threatening adventure... So when stakes get high for Ncuti's doctor they will have to either bring DT back AGAIN or explain why his doctor can't or won't lend a hand... I don't know... Seems like they're unnecessarily muddling the waters
But the multiverse was introduced earlier in the series, during Eccleston's era, and he explained that it was almost impossible to travel between universes, with all the Time Lords except him being dead.
I think it's worth remembering that 14 was still probably within the 13hr regeneration cycle. So it could be a case that the split could have been a result of that in some way
My issue isn't really with bigeneration as a concept, but more with how it was handled. As it is now, it doesn't feel like it is fair for Ncuti. The way it happened makes his doctor feel like a clone of the original that will just be overshadowed by the fact that David Tennant's doctor is alive and well. Ultimately, it will depend on the future pay-off. If this is a one off tactic to give David's doctor a good ending then I dislike it and it devalues the character by making incarnations feel less holistic. However, if it comes full circle and plays a significant role in a future plot, with believable consequences, then I think it could be remembered as a positive point in the show's history. Regardless of what happens, I still prefer this over many writing decisions from the Chibnall era.
I was a little peeved that they acted like the doctor didn’t do the whole settle down thing with Rory and Amy like he’d never sat down for a family dinner 🤔
As each of the two Doctors got / kept random items of clothing from the split, this means that as Ncuti Gatwa got the underpants, David Tenant did the rest of that scene full Commando! 😂
My first reaction was "Wait.. What? No... come on..." but then as soon as 15 started being just as delightful as 14, I really got into it. I would've preferred the traditional regeneration happen first, *THEN* the split, but that's just because I enjoy watching everyone's faces morph into each other. I love bi-generation and the doors it opens to the story and I'm very excited to see where we go in the Christmas special! :D
I love the idea of 15 being healthier mentally / emotionally because 14 stopped for awhile to deal with things. But that only really works if 14 gets integrated back into 15 somehow (and/or they explain how 15 otherwise benefits from those years before they happen). Since it’s RTD, it’s quite possible he already knows how this works and we will find out a few years from now. 😀
Or RTD is just pulling excuses out of his ass like last time.
Yep, this is 100% my head cannon, and due to 15's dialogue, I'm fairly certain that's how RTD views it too: "I'm fine because you fixed yourself. We're Time Lords. We're doing rehab out of order." (In fact I don't see how those lines could be interpreted otherwise). Temporarily, 14th => 15th, that's it. And why are they concurrent? Who knows? Timey-wimey stuff.
And who cares, because the storytelling advantages of being able to allow 15 have a youthful, energetic fresh-start without too much baggage, while 14 has a satisfying narrative ending, are just too good!
Have you considered that they have the same memories but the brain structure for assessment of situations and mood are just different between Doctors. 15 is naturally positive and confident of things working out, 14 is manic depressive and needs stability. The bigeneration means 14 already diagnosed himself and wanted to have 15s mentality, so 15 came in like that but 14 has to go the long way round as the bigeneration only repaired and did not change him.
15 hasn't stopped 14 from being the Doctor, he has just said, smell the roses (pun not intended), I will do the heavy lifting.
@melibabe easily resolved. Its explained in the "The Three Drs" whereby different incarnations of the Dr can just transfer memories between themselves to save exposition time 😀
I took the “Rehab out of order” line to mean his future self (15), helping and comforting his past self (14)…I don’t think we’ll see any kind of merging of the two.
I think sometimes people forget that the DW lore is only there to allow the show to keep going and for us to get a new wizard to watch fly thru space and time. Dont overthink it and just enjoy the fun stories.
@@tvguy61lol that's silly. All it did is say there were other adventures we didn't see and create what should have been an interesting arc to pick up with Gallifrey finally. It was murdering all the Time Lords that was the fuck up.
Basically Tennant's doctor becomes the museum curator from the 50th... Or by Russell logic the curator is a version of the 4th doctor that never changed. Either way I'm cool with it.
Rtd's idea is not Cannon. My headcannon is he becomes the Curator.
And I also agree that bigeneration can be an interesting concept, I saw a theory somewhere that the 15th incarnation was forced to come out too early but as soon as 14 is ready to properly regenerate, he will snap back and Ncuti will end up where he is, like he said to 14 : “I’m fine because you put in the work”, 14 took the time to heal and 15 knows this and is already experiencing the effects of it, ergo he knows what’s going to happen to 14 from now on and will snap back to his real regeneration probably at the end of 14’s body’s cycle, after he’s done all the work and healed himself mentally, and I really really like this idea!
Don’t know if I managed to explain it properly but do think of done like this it’s really interesting 😅
I worry about how they'll develop this change but I will say that the "all previous doctors are still alive somewhere" thing would be an interesting explanation for the Curator.
David Tenant's 14th Doctor could either rejoin UNIT or join Torchwood which could lead to the revitalisation of the Torchwood series or a spin off with UNIT
I would love to see a new series of Torchwood.
Would love to see torchwood come back, always preferred it to doctor who and would like to see the kids from Sarah Jane return at some point too now RTD is back in charge
In this episode 14 felt very Alec Hardy, head of Torchwood to me 😅 I miss Torchwood.
I was okay with the bigeneration up until he was given his own copy of the Tardis. This felt in that moment that RTD was setting up a spin-off and wanted fourteen to have autonomy. Whereas I would've had more impressed if fourteen had stepped away, settled for a while and we could've had something akin to the third Doctor on Earth, limited resources and using what's to hand to combat the threats.
I also like to personally think that fourteen isn't capable of regeneration, this is imo to remind viewers that fourteen while he is the Doctor, the actual doctor is the fifteenth. Fourteen is just lucky the rengeration went weird allowing him to continue, maybe with an extended life span but that's all.
The whole point of bi-generation is that as well as Russell T Davros basically telling the fans to go eff themselves he can now tell the Doctor to literally go eff himself!
To me, I think RTD didn't think this through enough. 15 just sauntering off into space when 14 has all that trauma and baggage makes 15 not feel like the Doctor. Why is he able to go off and 14 has to have rehab? Is it because he's a different incarnation and deals with grief differently? If that's the case, then why even have bigeneration at all?
People have said 15 comes after 14, meaning when 14 eventually dies, he'll become 15 during the bigeneration. But not only is that a paradox, where the Doctor would be crossing his own timeline, it would also mean 15 experienced the battle with the Toymaker and the creation of the second Tardis. Meaning he would remember all of that but clearly doesn't in this story.
I think RTD is WAYYY too set on making a "Whoniverse" and doesn't seem to really think about the consequences that this has on the show itself, and sadly, on Ncuti. Starting 15 off by having him feel like a different character all together is a terrible start to him and I feel bad for him.
I agree
He never has to settle into himself or learn who he is either. The question he has always asked is “who am I?” And he suddenly knows. Which will be very different. No pause to let the regeneration finish its stuff.
I'm just meh at the constant "trauma" plotline. The doctor used to just go off and explore the wonders of the universe on an endless holiday, now he is all PTSD because Tenant and Chibnall both think that is what the character is about.
I'm very optimistic about bigeneration and it's potential. Hope it is going to be explored more.
Also, a multiverse has always been present in Doctor Who, the third doctor (Jon Pertwee) story called Inferno with a sinister brigadier, and seventh doctor ( Sylvester McCoy) Battlefield where the other doctor was Merlin in the Arthur legend.
My problem with the ending didn't have anything to do with the bigeneration scene but the fact that the Doctor's idea of settling down with a family was settling down with Donna's family, rather than the First Doctors granddaughter Susan or the Tenth Doctor's clone-daughter Jenny. When we've already seen that the Doctor already have a family in the show, why wouldn't those be the first ones that came to the Doctor's mind? It just makes the Doctor seem like an absent father/grandfather.
Yeah, that Susan erasure was real. 🙁
Because Susan is somewhere in the 22nd Century and (unless you count Big Finish) the Doctor doesn't know that Jenny is alive. Maybe he wants Susan to have a safer, relatively normal life. Or maybe there were Time War related reasons we don't know of. Also, bringing Susan back at that point would have made Donna and Mel redundant.
@@AlbertonBeastmaster The point of the ending was that the Doctor was also settling down to have a safer and relatively normal life for atleast the time being. Never even checking up on Susan or showing that he still cares for her is the opposite of giving her or himself a normal life, since caring for and keeping in touch with one's family members is by definition part of that. The fact that she's in the 22nd century is no excuse for someone that owns a time machine, and while it would make Donna and Mel a bit redundant to the episode's story, she should still be the person that the Doctor first considered to settle down with. We can speculate about the in-universe reasons for why the Doctor didn't settle down with her, It doesn't excuse the fact that the writers didn't atleast bring it up. The Doctor had told Donna about Susan's existence and she knew about Jenny's well-being aswell, and not having either of them bring it up just makes the Doctor seems like a non-caring parent and grandparent and Donna as egocentric for rather having the Doctor with her family than his own familu.
Why did David Tennant's CLOTHES regenerate from Whittaker? I thought this was going to be answered. Is it because of the Toymaker's reality?
I don’t see how this changes anything. We already have time travel and multi-Doctor stories. If anything, it felt like proper closure for Tennant’s Doctor.
Mental health and self-care has been a theme with the Doctor and Donna since the start. Let’s not forget the “I’m always alright” conversation from the end of Forest of the Dead. Tennant never accepted his end like the other Doctors. Losing Donna the way he did sent him down a road where he became reckless. He needed to some resolution.
Ncuti nailed the Doctor the moment he arrived. I can’t wait to see him in the Xmas special and in the new series
I'd like to point out that regeneration has frequently been weird. Romana had an intermediate form between regenerations and could model looks temporarily. The Fourth Doctor was observed by The Watcher, who merged with him to form the Fifth Doctor. And then there's the Valeyard, who explicitly split off during a regeneration like Tennant did.
What I would like to see this channel address is Davies comments suggesting that The Timeless Child might have been a hoax perpetrated on The Doctor by the Toymaker, in particular the Toymaker's lines about having muddled with The Doctor's history. I've therefore seen it suggested that McGann being half human and any other inconsistency could be either hoaxes or history being altered by the Doctor's foes.
I think what RTD was driving at with the 'I made a jigsaw of your life' line was that the fans have the freedom to build their own picture of the Doctor from the pieces. He can be the Timeless Child or the renegade Time Lord who stole a TARDIS with his granddaugter - It all happened.
We already had another version of David Tennant's Doctor out there for the last 15 years and he hasn't been used in any storylines. This is just another one to add to the collection. Ncuti shouldn't worry about being overshadowed.
Let's have Sean Pertwee as the third Doctor, that would be sick...
I've wanted that for such a long time
I am so happy that an actual doctor gets a happy ending (yeah I know metacrisis doctor).
He finally found a family
@Firepuma27 Which, you know, completely disregards Susan... and her parents, one of which was the Doctor's kid.
I loved the ending to The Giggle, but zero mention of Susan just felt odd.
@@KLGChaos Susan (as well as the Doctor's son/daughter) has been dead for perhaps millions of years. He has a new family now. No disrespect to Susan, he just can't mourn forever.
@@KLGChaos they're fucking dead my guy
@@Firepuma27Sarah Jane already said he had the biggest family. And it’s not like he couldn’t pop up and see any of his other companions anytime he’d like. RTD wanted to have his cake and eat it too.
The thing alot of people are missing is that 15 said "Im better cause you fix yourself." I took that to mean that 14 will do his "therapy" and then eventually regenerate into 15 and be pulled back into the bi generation.
If that's the case, why does 15 act like this is the first time he's experienced these events then? Wouldn't he immediately know how they're going to stop the toymaker and also how to make 2 Tardises? But he acts like he's figuring that stuff out as they go in the episode
@@AnimeFanOmega Any time there's more than one Doctor involved, everybody's memories go to shit. There are canonical explanations for it in the various medias, but basically like if you're too close to the thing that caused the memory (because you're experiencing it twice), future you doesn't get the memory of the thing until past you has also experienced it so that you stay synched up
@@AnimeFanOmegaregeneration routinely messes with the doctor, I think it can be explained.
@@AnimeFanOmega Why does River Song act shocked and horrified during the Impossible Astronaut, when said astronaut 'kills' the Doctor?
Especially when she know SHE was the one to fire the shot?
To maintain the Timelines
@@Arrowthorne? Huh? People are using 15 saying "rehab out of order" to explain that 15 went through what 14 did. If what you're saying is correct, then 15 shouldn't have even said that. It seems like cope to assume 14 regenerates into 15 eventually. I think they're just different people know. There's no longer "The" Doctor, just Doctors.
Is it also possible we may have Melanie Bush take up residence in Bannerman Road? With Sarah Jane gone and the house vacant Mel could move in as she gets reacquainted with Earth. She may even get some new young charges in the process.
Mel was also a character that was not quite developed during her tenure. She was supposed to be a humorous foil for the Sixth Doctor as she tried to get him to lose weight and drink carrot juice. Something she couldn’t do with the Seventh Doctor.
I suspect Sarah Jane's son still lives there with k9 and Mr. Smith.
I was confused, then on the fence, then happy and now you've made me realise it'll be amazing with the whole multiple universes concept
Ncuti not only filled the shoes, but he filled the trousers too. 😳
I actually would have preferred it if this had been used to bring back the Paul McGann Doctor and let him stay and work with Unit, I've always wanted to see him get another chance at playing the role on screen. Also, since there's already the clone of Ten in the parallel universe, which I've always wanted to see again. Still I loved these anniversary specials and am really looking forward to the Christmas special and next series.
Me too
I don’t really like Bi-regeneration, but I do think it was the best case scenario here. There’s just no way the main doctor is just going to sit down and live life. The writing is trapped by the formula.
This allowed the character arc to wrap up, while still keeping the formula. It also potentially explains the curator.
A few issues I have…
It undermines the character arcs.
14 was finally ready to move on and regenerate… but he didn’t really do that. I might understand it if he still wasn’t ready and this was a manifestation of that, but that wasn’t the case.
It also really undermines 14 actual wanting to settle down. They have this whole arc of telling the doctor to settle down with even 15 telling 14 to chill, but then 15 flies off to do the same thing he criticized 14 of doing.
Bi-regeneration feels like it comes out of nowhere, but is sort of played off as something that had always been hinted at. I think I would have liked it more if it was a combination of using the myth at the edge of the universe, the toymaker’s domain, and 14’s desire to stay. Something to happen once and never again. I also would have liked if both doctors were more confused about it.
❤❤ The Doctor rested plenty of times. But I think that even though the previous versions are out there flying around in different times and places, they always knew that they (as the current version with the most/latest knowledge) would run back into the adventures.
With a normal regeneration, the older version is just gone and their adventures stop. This time, Fifteen is there to take that on, and Fourteen doesn't HAVE to keep running.
I liked this new handoff to the new Doctor.
Yup. There's a difference between resting and *retirement.*
The problem with such a multiverse explanation for older Doctors is that, unless we are saying that the Doctor crosses dimensions in the TARDIS as easily as he does time and space, there needs to be a reason why/how Doctors *do* cross dimensions, y'know?
Moving from one dimension to another has always been a really big deal in fiction (or used to be!), and I'm not overly comfortable with dimension-hopping. It takes the stakes out of saving the universe (because there's always another one to go to).
Also, how often is Doctor Who, as a show, going to need to use it?
Finally, this concept isn't bi-generation, it's conceptual splitting of reality (a la Back to the Future or MCU's Endgame).
Anyway... !
Keeping the 14th doctor around means nothing, all of the previous doctors exist through time and space, so nothing is really different. I'm surprised they didn't bring in the 10th doctor to it, that would have been different
I totally get where you are going with a multi verse, BUT I do think if we see shows each with their own doctor then you hurting yourself. In my mind, and I think many others as I have seen it mentioned This version of Davids Doctor, needs to retire, Much like was said in the show. And become the Curator. As curator his focus would be very afferents from the doctors and when he regenerates he should do so backwards. as in resisting old faces, allowing all the past doctors to be seen as regeneration from David and explaining their ages now.. his focus be very different to gallivanting around time and space. Ncuti has more energy than just about any doctor seen to date so all of that excitement needs to stay with him. Donna got hired at Unit so If 14 stays around he would be in every episode of Unit, effectively making it Doctor who. so I don't think he will stick around. I also really really wish they had stuck with the same conclusion. Him finding his family. But to me his family is Amy Rory and River. and a 2 minute cameo of Karen and Arthur at the end of the show would of been a great treat to fans and made more sense with hm settling down. After al the Toy Maker changed the rules so it would be easy explanation as to why now he can go visit them. They are his family, Donna is his best mate. Also I do think Yaz deserved some sort of mention in within the 3 episodes.
My concern is the effect of bringing back Tennant repeatedly, and now retaining him in the back of our minds with his own Tardis-presumably keeping the door open to having him show up without end. All the other doctors regenerated and are gone; he splits off and remains. I am beginning to feel that the show--as in Doctor Who--has a favourite doctor. That, to me, is problematic. The show itself is the only thing that can't have a favourite doctor. The fandom might lean in a specific direction, we can all have our favourite doctors, WhoCulture can have their favourite doctor, but officially, Doctor Who must be impartial. I feel they are almost seeing Tennant as the ideal doctor, and the rest as secondary to him. I wish it wasn’t so.
Can't go having favorite children.
@eclbirkeland -- THIS! (It also doesn't help that Tennant isn't MY fave Doctor, so I feel like my fave -- and the others -- are getting thrown under the bus for some weird Tennant-Supremecy.)
@@NicoleM_radiantbabytennant is my fave but I still agree
Let's give new doctors room to shine
No faves!