I like that now with DCC and sound technology but installing speakers n decoders in ho n the big scales trains are worth investing money into every day.
Your honest admission about making mistakes is so refreshing. It’s so refreshing as it takes guts to do it. I so enjoy your channel. Thank you. I’ve blown up many electrical circuits in my time but you learn how to protect them.
I can only remember smoking 4 decoders since 1994 including one that Digitrax sent me in 1994 for a review of their new system. Oddly enough all the others have been SoundTraxx decoders. I think part of this is because I know I can always get them fixed easily so I push the boundaries with some of my articles and videos and go too far on occasions.
@@TheDCCGuy I will cheerfully and confidently go with your pushed boundaries any day. Your videos are always superbly organized, which happens only when the producer thinks abut what they're doing before they do it. Your knowledge base and body of experience, combined with your thought, make your videos the best available. If you ever run out of gear to demonstrate for us, you just let us know because I am certain I'm not the only viewer who'd throw a few bucks in the kitty to keep you up and running. Even your self-acknowledged mistakes are useful, because we learn so much from you. What that saves us in time, money and grief is pretty significant. Thanks, Larry, so very much.
Another great video, I have been using two loco-consists in my layout for many many years and, to save a buck, I have used most of the times one loco with sound and the other one without, this would help me improve my loco roster a lot. I just have something to add, I believe that when you connect the speakers in parallel the resistence does not "cut" in half, instead the resulting resistence is the averague of the resistence connected, if both resistence are the same then the resulting resistence is the same. I studied this a long time ago in college, but that is what I remember.
I so appreciate you putting in the exact wording to search for the 2 pin connector on eBay. I found them right away and ordered them. This way I know I'm getting what you're recommending. Great video as always with lots of important tips along the way.
This is a great approach, Larry, however Dave Hughes pioneered this method a decade ago. See his article in the April 2021 edition of Model Railroader. Not only does he use smaller micro connectors (TCS) than the ones suggested in this video between units, which are nearly invisible, Dave uses 4-pin connectors between units to make the series-wired speaker connection and uses the second pair for bolstering the DCC bus between locos for uninterrupted running.
I have been a regular reader of MR and I apparently missed that as I breezed through the article on his layout. However, I published an article in my DCC Corner column in the August 2016 issue on doing this sound trick and then did another one on sharing power between locos in the April 2018 column so apparently I was actually first in print with both. I also pioneered the power trick with CTC16 in a pair of RS3s back around 1990. My video next week will complete the combined sound and power trick.
Exposed pins can be a problem. I use the JST style of connector. They only plug one way and the pins are shielded. You can get the JST in 2 wire to 10 wire or more. TCS has six wire ones.
The problem with having them out of phase with one another is the sound waves cancel each other out and you get very little sound from them. If they are maybe 6 or more inches apart it seems less of an issue but I basically always try to keep them in phase. I discussed this in my videos on speakers.
I have an off subject question but thinking you might know ? So I got a sound dcc MTH GP 38-2 the engine has a drive system that is junk. I want to remove the sound decoder and speaker to an atlas trainman GP 38-2. Do you think by switching out pc boards and decoders would be something possible?? This MTH is a paper weight,and the atlas trainman is a dcc engine with no sound but works fine and I’d like to swap out and convert them???
If you’re good at taking thongs apart and putting them back together it might work. However I would sell it on eBay to someone who has a lot of MTH locos and needs a spare parts model. Then use the money to get a decent decoder. I have 1 MTH and it has only been out of the box once in the last 6 years.
I was thinking of selling and it’s a shame because it’s a beautiful engine but it gear cases are for sure no good. But I’m pretty good with modifying trains and just was thinking of swapping them out ??? Unless someone needs it, but it’s the only MTH I got and it’s just collecting dust. And I also got some Athearns for sale. Thank you.
Inised Mashima can motors but I don’t know their current availability. NorthWest Shortline has remotoring kits that used to use Masimas but I think they use their own now. Micro Mark sells motors and of course Bowser sells remotor kits for their older locos. Some folks have had success buying motors from Chinese suppliers on eBay but I have never tried them.
How about a second pig tail for each locomotive so you have a connector for each end? Then you won't be so limited in configuration. Maybe even a baggage car or passenger car, etc., set up with a speaker and pug tail? Then if you want to run a single loco or if one goes down, you can connect to the auxillary unit to complete your circuit?
I guess you could do that as long as you don’t connect to more than one at a time. Back in the 1980s at the Northern Virginia Model Railroaders club we used CTC16 command control and the receivers were so big we used to put them in dummy locos, boxcars and reefers with sockets in the ends. That way club members that did not have receiver cars could connect their locos to the club cars and be off and running. This and what I will show on my next video are just extensions of that. So you are really only limited by your imagination.
Hi Larry I have asked a couple of chaps about doing this they said I would have problems with speed matching and other issues, I want to do this with amongst other brands and classes, Heljan class 33's some locos are fitted with loksound V5 sound decoders but want to fit the other half of fleet like how you have described. I mainly want to run in permanent pairs one sound fitted and the other standard decoder with speaker powered by the sound loco, but would like the option to swap the locos about for example #9 sound with #33 standard and #47 sound with #65 standard then #9 sound with #65 standard but I would also like to do a triple header (3 locos together with one sound decoder and two standard decoders) Could you be so kind to list what parts I would need, what size wire you use, what is a good programmer to change the cv settings and how and which cv settings I change so they start moving at the same time instead of the standard non sound decoder wanting to move before the sound decoder is ready. Many thanks Mark
As I have repeatedly said in my videos it is easier to speed match locos having decoders of the same brand/type. One way around this is to use a sound decoder and non sound decoder from the same manufacturer. Because they typically use the same speed algorithms and procedures you should be able to get a perfect match as long as the loco characteristics are not too different. That said it may also be possible to get a good speed match using decoders of different brands as I have done but you run the risk that some features such as braking effects may be on different functions or operate so differently they cannot be used. So you really need to consider what is your best combination of decoders to use for a case like this. In the end buying both the sound and non sound decoder made by the same manufacturer will likely be the easiest option. I know that George Bogatiuck of Soundtraxx has told me he often uses 4 sugar cubes in a series/parallel arrangement so he is pushing only 8 ohms and many modelers use 2.
Interesting idea for locos that one might always run together, like E and F A and B units. But why even suggest connectors like the TCS brand in a style that are obviously a poor choice for the reasons you warn about?
Well, those are the only ones I have found with the really small flexible wires. And with 4 wires (I will show you next week why I used 4) you need a flexible connection or it can cause derailments. If I can find the JST connectors with that kind of wire I will gladly switch. The white 2 pin JST connectors I showed are OK for a 2 wire connection but increase that to 4 and they are very stiff and I would expect problems.
@@TheDCCGuy I imagine that the other two connections are for sharing electrical pickup. Keeping the orientation of the connection vertical should be sufficiently flexible, even in N scale.
Yes that might work or using a pair of 2 wire connectors, one for sound and the other for power would relieve the stress. However if I could just discipline myself to simply turn off the track power when fiddling with the connectors it gives adequate protection while also providing a flexible connection. At one time in the early 1990s I installed individual sockets in the pilots of a pair of RS3s and world insert individual wires between them just like real mu cables. But that was more fiddling around than it was worth.
Larry I am new to this and have a few questions. Planning on building a dcc n scale small layout. Is there any way I can send you my questions to an email or other means? Thank you. I have watched about all your UA-cam videos.
Start with my basic few questions. First I am looking at using atlas 55 track should I consider something else. My layout is going to be somewhere around 3.5’ by 5’. Second I am looking at the NCE power cab system thoughts on this. I have your book on wiring dcc that I am reading now. I am sure I will have more as I get into this further. Thank you for your response.
PowerCab is a great product, watch my videos on it. With that small a layout you can easily wire it without any voltage losses in the wires or the rails.See my recommendations on wire sizes in my book and wiring videos. The problem with code 55 is being that small it has much greater resistance than larger stuff so requires more frequent feeders to prevent voltage drops. Also remember that the mor locos you run at one time the more issues you are likely to run into if you have wiring and track voltage drops, so just because it works with one loco doesn’t mean it will work the same with 6. Follow the guidance and don’t scrimp. It’s easier and cheaper to do it right the first time than to have to go back and retrofit.
What track would you recommend that I use as I am open to any. Also would I need the 5amp pack for the NCE based on the size I am planning on using. At most would have 3 trains running at once also have a few turnouts and some of your electronic lights. Thank you
Go ahead and use standard code 55 but be aware of the potential limitations as far as wire size and feeder spacing. You’re not like the fellow who wrote me with 100’ bus runs and undersized wires.
I like that now with DCC and sound technology but installing speakers n decoders in ho n the big scales trains are worth investing money into every day.
Your honest admission about making mistakes is so refreshing. It’s so refreshing as it takes guts to do it. I so enjoy your channel. Thank you. I’ve blown up many electrical circuits in my time but you learn how to protect them.
I can only remember smoking 4 decoders since 1994 including one that Digitrax sent me in 1994 for a review of their new system. Oddly enough all the others have been SoundTraxx decoders. I think part of this is because I know I can always get them fixed easily so I push the boundaries with some of my articles and videos and go too far on occasions.
@@TheDCCGuy I will cheerfully and confidently go with your pushed boundaries any day. Your videos are always superbly organized, which happens only when the producer thinks abut what they're doing before they do it. Your knowledge base and body of experience, combined with your thought, make your videos the best available. If you ever run out of gear to demonstrate for us, you just let us know because I am certain I'm not the only viewer who'd throw a few bucks in the kitty to keep you up and running. Even your self-acknowledged mistakes are useful, because we learn so much from you. What that saves us in time, money and grief is pretty significant. Thanks, Larry, so very much.
Thanks Larry, another great Video, and special Thanks for your Warnings.
Great video Larry. Letting the smoke out of an electronic component is a sobering experience.
Another great video, I have been using two loco-consists in my layout for many many years and, to save a buck, I have used most of the times one loco with sound and the other one without, this would help me improve my loco roster a lot. I just have something to add, I believe that when you connect the speakers in parallel the resistence does not "cut" in half, instead the resulting resistence is the averague of the resistence connected, if both resistence are the same then the resulting resistence is the same. I studied this a long time ago in college, but that is what I remember.
I so appreciate you putting in the exact wording to search for the 2 pin connector on eBay. I found them right away and ordered them. This way I know I'm getting what you're recommending. Great video as always with lots of important tips along the way.
If you watch Larry's next video, he uses a 4 way connector. I do hope you didn't make that order yet!?!
@@gregorydraghici8955 I did order the 2-pin connectors. I'll have to watch his latest one. Thanks for letting me know.
As always thanks for the info especially the ESP wireless info. Have a great week.
This is a great approach, Larry, however Dave Hughes pioneered this method a decade ago. See his article in the April 2021 edition of Model Railroader. Not only does he use smaller micro connectors (TCS) than the ones suggested in this video between units, which are nearly invisible, Dave uses 4-pin connectors between units to make the series-wired speaker connection and uses the second pair for bolstering the DCC bus between locos for uninterrupted running.
I have been a regular reader of MR and I apparently missed that as I breezed through the article on his layout. However, I published an article in my DCC Corner column in the August 2016 issue on doing this sound trick and then did another one on sharing power between locos in the April 2018 column so apparently I was actually first in print with both. I also pioneered the power trick with CTC16 in a pair of RS3s back around 1990. My video next week will complete the combined sound and power trick.
Thanks Larry. 🐾🚂.
Exposed pins can be a problem. I use the JST style of connector. They only plug one way and the pins are shielded. You can get the JST in 2 wire to 10 wire or more. TCS has six wire ones.
Hi Larry. Wot, no demonstration of the sound after fitting?
We’ll get to that in the next video, more to come!
If you ran parallel but out of phase would get a little different sound from each speaker?
The problem with having them out of phase with one another is the sound waves cancel each other out and you get very little sound from them. If they are maybe 6 or more inches apart it seems less of an issue but I basically always try to keep them in phase. I discussed this in my videos on speakers.
Thanks for this video. I am interested in doing this with a DL-109 & DL-110 connected with a drawbar.
Yes, I have a pair of those to do also.
I have an off subject question but thinking you might know ? So I got a sound dcc MTH GP 38-2 the engine has a drive system that is junk. I want to remove the sound decoder and speaker to an atlas trainman GP 38-2. Do you think by switching out pc boards and decoders would be something possible?? This MTH is a paper weight,and the atlas trainman is a dcc engine with no sound but works fine and I’d like to swap out and convert them???
If you’re good at taking thongs apart and putting them back together it might work. However I would sell it on eBay to someone who has a lot of MTH locos and needs a spare parts model. Then use the money to get a decent decoder. I have 1 MTH and it has only been out of the box once in the last 6 years.
I was thinking of selling and it’s a shame because it’s a beautiful engine but it gear cases are for sure no good. But I’m pretty good with modifying trains and just was thinking of swapping them out ??? Unless someone needs it, but it’s the only MTH I got and it’s just collecting dust. And I also got some Athearns for sale. Thank you.
What is the name of the new efficient motors that you installed?
Inised Mashima can motors but I don’t know their current availability. NorthWest Shortline has remotoring kits that used to use Masimas but I think they use their own now. Micro Mark sells motors and of course Bowser sells remotor kits for their older locos. Some folks have had success buying motors from Chinese suppliers on eBay but I have never tried them.
Surely neither speaker will work if you disconnect the two parts of the loco when they are wired in series?
You must not have watched the whole video as I said just that at one point.
Ooops Sorry...I missed that bit!!@@TheDCCGuy
How about a second pig tail for each locomotive so you have a connector for each end? Then you won't be so limited in configuration. Maybe even a baggage car or passenger car, etc., set up with a speaker and pug tail? Then if you want to run a single loco or if one goes down, you can connect to the auxillary unit to complete your circuit?
I guess you could do that as long as you don’t connect to more than one at a time. Back in the 1980s at the Northern Virginia Model Railroaders club we used CTC16 command control and the receivers were so big we used to put them in dummy locos, boxcars and reefers with sockets in the ends. That way club members that did not have receiver cars could connect their locos to the club cars and be off and running. This and what I will show on my next video are just extensions of that. So you are really only limited by your imagination.
I believe you can just search for 1mm jst plugs and the second style connector should come up.
Unless im missing something, you should also be able to do this with a dummy loco as well.
Yes. I do this frequently.
Yes, I have several dummy units with speakers in them.
What did I miss Larry why 4 wire in series? 2 out to B & 2 back to A humn?
You either didn’t watch the whole video or skipped the part where a note in big red letters said I will cover that in next week’s video.
@@TheDCCGuy I musta missed the To be continued However I did Nit miss the Remove or kill rack pwr in Red lol tha KS Larry
so you are running both units from (lets say ) decoder in Unit A Then running a sound board to unit B?
No, there are decoders in each loco but only one is a sound decoder.
than can I ask, why not just connect the non sound unit to the unit with the sound decoders?
Are you suggesting powering the motors of both locos with one decoder or what?
@@TheDCCGuy yes
Hi Larry I have asked a couple of chaps about doing this they said I would have problems with speed matching and other issues, I want to do this with amongst other brands and classes, Heljan class 33's some locos are fitted with loksound V5 sound decoders but want to fit the other half of fleet like how you have described.
I mainly want to run in permanent pairs one sound fitted and the other standard decoder with speaker powered by the sound loco, but would like the option to swap the locos about for example #9 sound with #33 standard and #47 sound with #65 standard then #9 sound with #65 standard but I would also like to do a triple header (3 locos together with one sound decoder and two standard decoders) Could you be so kind to list what parts I would need, what size wire you use, what is a good programmer to change the cv settings and how and which cv settings I change so they start moving at the same time instead of the standard non sound decoder wanting to move before the sound decoder is ready. Many thanks Mark
As I have repeatedly said in my videos it is easier to speed match locos having decoders of the same brand/type. One way around this is to use a sound decoder and non sound decoder from the same manufacturer. Because they typically use the same speed algorithms and procedures you should be able to get a perfect match as long as the loco characteristics are not too different. That said it may also be possible to get a good speed match using decoders of different brands as I have done but you run the risk that some features such as braking effects may be on different functions or operate so differently they cannot be used. So you really need to consider what is your best combination of decoders to use for a case like this. In the end buying both the sound and non sound decoder made by the same manufacturer will likely be the easiest option. I know that George Bogatiuck of Soundtraxx has told me he often uses 4 sugar cubes in a series/parallel arrangement so he is pushing only 8 ohms and many modelers use 2.
@@TheDCCGuy many thanks great advice and videos
Interesting idea for locos that one might always run together, like E and F A and B units.
But why even suggest connectors like the TCS brand in a style that are obviously a poor choice for the reasons you warn about?
Well, those are the only ones I have found with the really small flexible wires. And with 4 wires (I will show you next week why I used 4) you need a flexible connection or it can cause derailments. If I can find the JST connectors with that kind of wire I will gladly switch. The white 2 pin JST connectors I showed are OK for a 2 wire connection but increase that to 4 and they are very stiff and I would expect problems.
@@TheDCCGuy I imagine that the other two connections are for sharing electrical pickup. Keeping the orientation of the connection vertical should be sufficiently flexible, even in N scale.
Yes that might work or using a pair of 2 wire connectors, one for sound and the other for power would relieve the stress. However if I could just discipline myself to simply turn off the track power when fiddling with the connectors it gives adequate protection while also providing a flexible connection. At one time in the early 1990s I installed individual sockets in the pilots of a pair of RS3s and world insert individual wires between them just like real mu cables. But that was more fiddling around than it was worth.
Larry I am new to this and have a few questions. Planning on building a dcc n scale small layout. Is there any way I can send you my questions to an email or other means? Thank you. I have watched about all your UA-cam videos.
If you have a question add it to the comments add I will try to answer it here where others can benefit.
Start with my basic few questions. First I am looking at using atlas 55 track should I consider something else. My layout is going to be somewhere around 3.5’ by 5’. Second I am looking at the NCE power cab system thoughts on this. I have your book on wiring dcc that I am reading now. I am sure I will have more as I get into this further. Thank you for your response.
PowerCab is a great product, watch my videos on it. With that small a layout you can easily wire it without any voltage losses in the wires or the rails.See my recommendations on wire sizes in my book and wiring videos. The problem with code 55 is being that small it has much greater resistance than larger stuff so requires more frequent feeders to prevent voltage drops. Also remember that the mor locos you run at one time the more issues you are likely to run into if you have wiring and track voltage drops, so just because it works with one loco doesn’t mean it will work the same with 6. Follow the guidance and don’t scrimp. It’s easier and cheaper to do it right the first time than to have to go back and retrofit.
What track would you recommend that I use as I am open to any. Also would I need the 5amp pack for the NCE based on the size I am planning on using. At most would have 3 trains running at once also have a few turnouts and some of your electronic lights. Thank you
Go ahead and use standard code 55 but be aware of the potential limitations as far as wire size and feeder spacing. You’re not like the fellow who wrote me with 100’ bus runs and undersized wires.
Great video Larry ! Is this technique doable in N scale ?
I don’t see why not assuming you have room for a speaker. And by the way, I think you’ll like the next video even better.
⚡💥🔥💸
One or two errors Lary.