I love it! When you said "the intent is to get the dad gummed thing turned around" , I lost it! That is exactly why I love your videos! I mean this with all due respect and adoration. You do a very good job explaining things and are truly a blessing to this hobby!
Thanks for another great video. Tam Valley Frog Juicers have saved me a lot of time wiring the frogs and making my N scale Peco Electrofrog turnouts and double crossover "DCC Friendly" and they also have the added bonus of being able to be used as a auto reverser for wye's, reverse loops, and turntables. Well worth the cost. Aloha
Nice video Larry. I like the use of these new products to simplify operations of the reverse loops and also set up non-derailing turnouts. Regarding DC operations, if the reverse loop is operated unidirectionally, a way to allow operation through it without stopping is to use a rectifier. By putting it between the output of the direction switch and the reverse loop track what happens is that as the train runs through the reverse loop, when you through the direction switch the rectifier maintains the correct polarity in the reverse loop, thus the train doesn't change direction. AS a result you don't need to stop the train.
Larry I was able to find a supplier in Canada for the parts needed to build the reverse loop, this is excellent video, very helpful, next step build it
Thank you for the detailed illustration on setting this up Larry! i have learned and enjoyed many of your programs and look forward to utilizing these techniques on my new layout which I am on the cusp of beginning. I will have 2 reverse loops in my new configuration and plan to utilize this program as a tutorial when I get to the track stage.
I felt sure that I posted a comment that this video was very timely as I had a virtually identical application planned when this video was first released but can't find it below. Anyway, after a few delays I have now completed the end-of-branchline staging yard and the reverse loop that supports it by turning the trains to re-orient them for their return call onto the branchline on a good friend's layout. The reverse loop is hidden and while the switch is technically accessible it is very inconvenient to reach over the washer and dryer and my friend wanted it automated to the greatest degree possible anyway. So, early in the new year I ordered the LM-ID detectors and the Cobalt IP Digital switch machine as Larry has used. It took a month for them to arrive from England, much longer than I had hoped but that is life the last couple of years. Earlier this week I completed the installation and wiring of these components and while I never doubted Larry it was great to see it work exactly as advertised/illustrated. I was even lucky enough that my initial guess for which signal wire went to which switch machine input was correct (a very small victory over a recalcitrant universe) so it worked a charm from the get-go, first for a number of runs with my test locomotive and then a test train. Based on Larry's experience I went straight to providing a 12 VDC power source for the LM-ID detectors. I have a 12VDC power bus for this end of the layout for switch machines and other accessories anyway so I simply tapped into it for the detectors and Cobalt IP Digital switch machine power. However the 12v supply means the Cobalt IP runs a bit slow, as do Tortoise machines at 12VDC instead of 16VDC, so if you use a lower DC voltage I recommend making the detector sections as long as possible. My installation uses a full length of flex track so 36". At "normal" track speed for this area the locomotive travels about half the length of the detector block while the Cobalt IP throws the switch points. I had been looking into how this gets done with the Digitrax BD-4 and DS64 but when I saw this video I immediately knew that it being completely stand alone and free of control inputs was the way to go. The components are not inexpensive, especially with international shipping, but when they work as advertised and enhance the operating experience to the extent that they do in this application, then they become well worth the price. I have not been the biggest fan of a few videos Larry has put out but most are very good and a few are most pertinent to me as is probably the case for all viewers. This one was almost tailor made for me and hence I see it as one of his very best. I hope others have benefited equally from this or other videos from Larry. Thanks for the help and guidance Larry, Best Cheers.
That's so cool. I have 4 reverse loops, 2 upper and 2 lower. I use digitrax ar1 auto reverser to change the polarity after I'm in the loop. I have to remember to throw the switch for my turnouts. But with this setup it fully automatic.
I got the "Smail" switch machine to work just like the Cobalt Digital switch machine (which you can't find anywhere) in this auto reversing configuration. Just wire the block detectors to the C1-GND-C2 connections on the Smail.
Thank you, Thank you for the clear and detailed video, although I had to use BD-20's which wire up slightly differently, I was able to successfully automate my reverse loop reliably using your guidance. The process has inspired me to look into more automation projects!
Yes, before they developed their similar detectors, they tended to use BD-20s. Did you end up adding power to them or was the logic and ground output enough without it?
@@TheDCCGuy They did work without power but I added power to get LED confirmation with larger bulbs in two colors. I may play with it some more just to avoid the additional power supply, or consider a DC accessory bus connection nearby. Thanks again, your articles and videos are extremely helpful. See you along the rails.
I have basically a large Single Track DCC Folded Dogbone, where i one half it Loops back close to the Opposing track to give a Double track appearance. Basically imagine an open loop, Until I add the Crossover Switches. I want to Add a Single Crossover (2 Switches) between those opposing Mains. Which makes a Reversing Loop plus a straight through continuation on the back track. Confused about the Continuation cutoff past the Crossover. Tie it into the feeder off a Dual Juicer same Polarity feed as the Main Before the Crossover, opposite of the Loop feeders? Using Peco Electrofrogs modified for DCC. Manual Throws.
I think you needed to add power as the BD20 was not getting any power with the gaps insulated in the rails. I may do something like this and I really like the switch machines. Thank you.
Larry Finally have my Reverse Loop built on my upper level. The Turnout is insulated on all sides Both rails. I have feeders from my main DCC bus connected in the loop. The train runs thru the main of the turnout and into the loop as it gets close to the diverging leg of turnout it stops short circuit the rails are reversed as expected. On the main line of the turnout about 24 inches up I placed a cut in the rail. I placed feeders black and red (red is inside rail) Black is the cut rail. and connected those two feeders to my Dual Frog Juicer. Also prior to the cut I have a black wire fed down to my NCE BD20 which then connects to my Black mail DCC Bus line. So far following you video all good. on the bd20 I see in your video you have a black blue and white wire. What I do not see is what pins they are connected to on the BD20 and on the Cobalt IP Digital Machine can you let me know what the names of those pins are on both the BD20 and the Cobalt ip digital? Thanks Tom
Tom-I didn’t use a BD-20, but instead used the DCC Concepts version which is very similar. Somewhere around here I have some info on using the BD-20 in a similar case but just need to fo d it. When I do I’ll email a copy to you.
@@TheDCCGuy Larry Thank you I sent you an email about this also you can reply to that one with the info thanks again. I have my second reverse loop almost completed now for the track but no wiring as of yet. waiting to see how the first reverse loop works
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you so much, Larry, for this great video. I would also be grateful for the info you have on using the BD-20 for triggering the turnout throw. Can you use a tortoise machine instead of the Cobalt? I also use the Freiwald Industries Train Controller software for automatic train running for guests, etc., which would require a third BD-20 to be used for block occupancy detection in the actual reverse loop as well -- would this additional BD-20 interfere with the two controlling the turnout position, or visa versa?
I had an "automated" uni-direction reverse loop on my last layout, I used a DCC reverser and a six inch length of spring wire with just enough tension to hold the points close but still allow my lightest car to push the points over to allow safe passage.
Railroads call that a spring switch. Works fine as long as ALL your rolling stock will hold the rails. I’d hate to find out I had one light car in a 20 car string cause a derailment on a reverse loop buried deep under the layout.
Great video. Was looking to do this but now I'm limited to a 4×4 area which is not going to happen.... Larry truthfully, I could of used all your advice 5 years ago before I built my layout., But I'm not and as we all say never finished modeling...but I'm not even close I am using most of what you teached as I'm fixing tunnel track and I have to finish doing my yard in my open closet where I have to put it and at the end of my 13+4 middle section... That's where I wanted this cause also I'm going to make a yard n passenger station. But my city is there with my elevated subway so only 4+4 room left for this... Your videos are great knowledge that I am absorbing. Thanks buddy keep it up, joe aka ( DIESEL 027)....
I also use the Digitrax system, I am using circuit breakers to protect the layout in the event of a short circuit, Now I had a problem when using my PM42 set up to control reverse loops in that I've had to use sections of track at each end of the reverse loops and feed those directly from the DCS 210 controller because if I used the circuit protection, the circuit protection would operate before the PM42 had a chance to do its job. since wiring it this way the PM42 works great.
@@TheDCCGuy I am a member of MERG. You could find them on the internet. MERG is a group of people made up of members and some of the members who are involved with the running of the club, have over the years, become very knowledgeable and skilled in what they do. They put together different electronic kits, which can be purchased by members and there are various kits for model railroading. I purchased 4 circuit breaker kits and built them myself by soldering the components onto circuit boards. I set the trip current at 3A but the electronics of the boards are more sensitive than the PM42 which is why I don't feed the reverse loops with the over current protection of the breakers. As it is more or less impossible to get a short on the reverse loop itself I'm OK with doing that. and if it came to a short occurring the DCS 210 would operate to protect itself, in the same way as when one tests the track at various parts for continuity. I could give you the kit number if that would help, but I believe they only do just the one kit for track protection, I have 3 levels and use one for each level.
Thanks for your video Larry. In the video the term “DCC Power Bus” is used. In some other videos you refer to a “DCC Accessory Bus”. My question is, are the red and green wires going through the headstones to the isolated track section, to the switch motor, and the clear copper to the Frog Juicer/Auto Reverser unit all on a separate power source and not track power? I have tried DCC REX using their wiring diagram and was unsuccessful. Did Mick answer the questions you had? Hoping you might make a video showing it in use. All the Best
The DCC power bus and the DCC accessory bus can actually be one or two separate 2 wire buses depending on your approach. The DCC power bus is used first to power the tracks, but it can also be used to power DCC accessory decoders, devices, and even some other accessories. However I suggest having a separate DCC accessory bus for several reasons. Fir example if you use DCC accessory decoders to control your switch machines then by isolating them from the power bus they are protected from shorts. When I was at Warley last fall the DCC Concepts demo layout stopped working because a short created by a loco reset all the accessory decoder addresses and they had to reprogram all of them to get it to work again. Having an isolated DCC accessory power bus would have prevented that. You can also have one booster dedicated for the main DCC power bus and a second one just for the accessory bus. That way your accessories don’t use up your power you need to run locos. In this video I used a combined bus approach simply because it was simpler and easier to set up.
@@TheDCCGuy Let me ask in a different way. Are the isolated tracks leading into the reverse loop getting DCC power from something other than primary track power? Thanks for explain the pros of the separate accessory bus for switch motors.
Great teachings as usual Larry. I'm having troubles getting my small brain around my reverse loop issue. for ease of explanation, i have a oval track, with a track going from one side to the opposite of the oval. I'm not sure where i need to isolate and put my reversing decoder(s)
Reverse loops can be simple as with the examples I showed on the diagrams. However others in complex track work can be difficult to diagnose. Basically though if you trace a line through any track work and find it reconnects back on itself through a turnout then that likely is a reverse loop even it it does not look like a loop. Wyes for example are such a reversing situation. Chapter 7 in my wiring book deals with reverse loops, wyes, and turntables all of which have this issue.
If the train is coming from the right, your left in the video, can you select straight through or diverging route? Or are you limited to the last position direction? I realize that this is simply a hidden turn around so in this case it does not matter. If it were applied that it is visible can you select direction, or is that a much more complicated wiring project. Thank you in advance.
This is just designed as a hidden turnout loop so no provisions for directionality, which would require a more complicated logic based system and more detectors. Since I no longer plan on using the reverse loop I am glad not to have to fuss with designing such a system.
Great explanation, Thank-you. Two questions occur to me though, 1) am I correct in assuming that there's no complication caused by having staging sidings inside the reverse loop, and b) if this were adapted to a wye, I think I would need another juicer, 4 more current detectors, and of course 2 more cobalt switch motors, correct? A follow up discussion of wiring a wye might be a good idea for another video. Thank-you again for this; your videos have given me the confidence to believe I can move from DC to DCC and I'm really looking forward to it.
As long as they are fully inside the reverse loops you should be OK. As for the wye those look more complicated than they actually are. I think it depends on where you put the reversing section and autoreverser. For example if you have a long enough tail track you might be able to get by with just flipping polarity on it and not have to worry about the other locations, at least that’s what I wrote in my book!
Thanks Larry. You always make things easy to follow and understand. I am about to install a couple of reversing loops using PSX-AR. I think I know what to do but if you were to do another video on this product, I'd love to see it. The PSX-AR is single device that does the whole thing - reverse the polarity plus throw the switch to the correct direction.
Larry , did you resolve the 12 volt power issue, I want to combine this with a helix similar to the one you are building now , a great combo , can you post a wire diagram for this set up , excellent job , I love this
I have asked the guys at DCC Concepts for a clarification. The instructions do say that in order to operate an LED or other device you need to provide either DC or DCC power, so maybe the iP Digitals do require the extra power input. I hope to hear back by tomorrow.
Larry great , I plan to build hidden staging yard and reverse loop. Using a helix to reach my main level, so I am watching your videos learning more thanks
Yes, in theory you could do it. But it would be a lot more complicated since there are 3 turnouts involved instead of 1. If I were to do it I would only automate the turnout at the tail end and the autoreversing section.
Two questions: 1) If I wanted manually induce the turnout switch to change, what would I need to add to this configuration. 2) Are these modules brand agnostic? Meaning, does it matter which brand DCC controller I use? (I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter, but I want to double check.)
I think that by placing a momentary pushbutton switch across a gap you create a sort just like you loco wheels and initiate a reversal. And yes, this could be done with any DCC system.
In the video you said that you needed to add a 12v power supply to the dcc concept sensor to make it work. Did you ever find out why that was the case fro DCC concepts? Is the 12v supply needed or is there a way to wire this to allow for the non 12v approach?
I wouldn’t use one, they are too slow and don’t kill power, just limit it. But I have done videos for those who insist. Just isolate the block of track and wire the bulb at the point where you create the bus or sub-bus to power the block.
Thank you so much for this I really needed this for my layout! BUT......... I do have a dilemma. One of my reversal loops is in fact a direction oriented loop which requires the train to always take a specific side on approach. What I've now learned ( which NO ONE on the internet will mention) is that with a reverse unit you MUST enter from where you exit or it will short out. Do you have any insight on how to handle this or is this NOT a job for off the shelf reversers?
Update: Magic happened and it started working. I have a whole bunch of theories but I'm clueless. I'm not gonna fuss though, I have a specified approach reverse loop and it's working.
I saw in another video they were using the Digitrax AR1. The loop was long, though no distance was given, but they connected the AR1 at both ends of the loop, saying it prevented any delay in detection when crossing into the Main Line versus just one end only. Is that necessary? I have not seen or heard of that issue before. Potential concerns when/if connecting at both ends of the loop?
Larry All my parts arrived two questions Question 1 On the BD20 you connected them to a 12 Volt power supply. Can I connect them to my 16 Volt DC buss line and put a reducer near and have a 12VDC buss line ? Question 2. On the Dual Frog Juicer DDFJ003U the same one your using. Can I connect that to my DCC accessory Bus Line ? or to my same bus line my Track feeders are on? Thank you in advance Tom
Nice presentation Larry, thankyou. I might have missed something tho, the polarity change is taken care of by the auto reverser and you needed a signal from the two sensors? When I set up a auto reverser for my turntable, I only used ( a Lenz unit) a auto reverser and no sensing devices to achieve the switching. So, I assume the load sensors are for changing the turnout?
Yes, with this setup the detectors just handle the switch machine and the auto reverser handles the reverse loop polarity, it senses polarity mismatches internally and does not need external sensors or detectors.
Larry, I appreciate the video. I am planning to use the DCC Specialities PSX-AR. I have one question. You fixed the auto switching and poliarity from within the loop. How can you pre determine the switch machine to go left or right from out side the loop when approaching the loop. What you had just takes the last direction used.
As I think I said in the video setting it up for a fixed route gets very complicated. It will likely require some sort of flip flop logic circuit and possibly optical detectors. I have never seen it done. You might check with some companies that sell DCC electronic circuitry.
@@TheDCCGuy After viewing this video, I later viewed your review of the Cobalt Switch Machine. You mentioned the option to add a Momentary button to the switch machine. I feel this would give me the option to chose which direction to enter the loop. Thanks for your help. Thanks for your practical presentations.
In that video the detector is sending a command to the switch machine to change and if you add a pushbutton it would create a potential signal conflict.Let me ask the DCC Concepts guys whether they have a solution. They are at a big show this weekend so I won’t hear anything back until next week so remind me if I don’t get back to you by mid-week.
I heard back from them and they don’t have a circuit specially for that. However I found the Digikeijs DR5013 autoreversing blackboxes designed for automating reverse loops and a company at www.azatrax.com that makes them. You do have to search through their pages but eventually you can get down to their circuit. I am sure there are a lot of other basements electricians selling such circuits just do a Google search.
Larry, when building this in the "bowels" of your layout, the implication is that you cannot see what is going on down there, much the same as a train going through an inaccessible tunnel. I am wondering what you might think about installing a CCTV to monitor those areas that you can't see without difficulty to watch what is going on, and how that might be set up. It would actually be very prototypical; I am retired from UP and have dealt with Big Brother watching my every move both in the yard office and sitting at the throttle. I could see the benefits of such a set-up for something other than disciplining operating crews (not that I am bitter...).
I completely agree! Need to make sure that you get the PSX-sc that controls a switch too. Only 5 wires. 2 to your isolated section and 3 to the switch. They work flawlessly. It even handles when you flip the switch manually.
I want to construct a layout with a reverse loop where the loco enters on one turnout and leaves on another. My dilemma is whether one AutoReverse mechanism will open the forward turnout and close the previous turnout simultaneously.
Without seeing your track plan it is hard to comment. Usually in a revers loop the loco enters and leaves via the same turnout. Do you plan some land of crossovers in there that creates the reversing issue? At any rate it sounds as though you will need 2 circuit boards to handle the two turnouts, but without more info I cannot be certain.
This is great info. Thank you. I use the PSX AR and noticed in their instructions they suggest staggering the rail gaps by 0.75". I do have occasional shorting problems with lighted passenger cars that I cannot attibute to anything I can detect, yet my gaps are not staggered. Do you have any thoughts on this?
I asked Larry Meir, the developer about those staggered gaps and he admitted it really wasn’t critical that they be 0.75”, just they be offset a little. I can’t remember whether he told me why they are needed though. Another thing is to never leave a load such as a lighted car, loco, etc. across a gap. Also check you voltages on each side of block gaps and make sure there is no sig difference between them. If lighted cars are a problem you might try increasing your trip threshold setting a bit to give the block more capacity.
The type of tunrnout doesn’t matter you’ll still need to handle reverse loop polarity and switch the points. The only thing an Insulfrog gets you is not having to power the frog which may result in small locos stalling on the dead frog.
We are having a discussion on the MR forum as to whether an insulated metal wheelset (no car lighting involved) will trigger a reverser. Can you shed some light please?
If you are using a device that senses the mismatch in “polarity” like the dual Frog Juicer and several others, then metals wheels will trigger the autoreverser since there will be a short when the metal wheels bridge the gaps. Plastic wheels will not trigger the device.
Larry thanks for the great video. I've been using servos for my hand built turnouts on the mainline but am wanting to automate the turnouts for a reversing move. I was interested in using the Cobalt digitals and a PSXAR. Would I still need those block detectors you used on your example? What brand are they? Thanks again.
Fro what I have studied on this that could get very complicated. The method I used was the simplest way I could do it and I have a PSX-AR and on hand. I’d have to study this a bit more to see if it can control,your servos but I bet it will. As I remember it must have built in detection but it has been a long time since I looked at that material.
@@TheDCCGuy thanks again Larry. Yes I am currently using servos for the turnouts in question but am thinking about switching them out for the cobalts. Would I need anything else besides the PSXAR and the cobalts or would you suggest something different be used?
Since the PSX-AR seems to have its own detection system and has output to control a Tortoise or other switch machine I think you would be good to go. The drawback with all the PSX devices is setting the CVs (configuration variables) as there is no reliable way to actually know that you have programmed they way you want them. The thing I like about the Dual Frog Juicer is no programming is needed. Just hook up the wires, set the jumpers and it’s ready for action. With the Cobalt Digital all I did was change the address, wire it up to the detectors and power them and it was ready to go. I do use a PSX4 on the output from my DCS240 and I never did get it programmed correctly til I sent it back for a firmware update and they programmed it for me there. Tons of options but a PITA to program.
They are designed to work with either DCC or reversing power connections so I don’t see how a snap switch feed would work as they are common/L/R. You might ask the folks at DCC Concepts though as I know they do make solenoid based snap type switch machines. Try j.whiteside@dccconcepts.com
Larry What size track did you use? I mean I see the Atlas turnout #4 #6 561 562? which Number? and then the curves what radius. 15 18 22 ? trying to design my Reverse loop for my upper level building a helix to go from one level the next
@@TheDCCGuy Larry Ok on the #6 turnout but for the curve to join at both ends how many pieces of curve did you use and what radius on them 18 15 20 22?
I don’t use sectional track, it is all flextrack which can be bent to any radius. The full curve has not been built yet but will have a circumference=2*Pi*r
I am a complete newb to DCC and I want to make model railroad my next hobby - last time I played with trains was before 1980 and DCC didn't exist yet. Now, in today's age (2022), aren't there any battery powered locos that are managed via bluetooth/wifi that would simplify all these electric problems? I want to play with trains, not become an electrical engineer ;-) Great video! +1
So, from previous vlogs I’ve seen you do, on every DCC turnout you power the single end and insulate the end that diverges and the end that continues straight. So in addition to insulating the double end do I need this device as well?
I am not exactly sure what you are asking me but just so we can talk about the same thing let’s get the terms straight first. Turnouts have a point end and a frog end. The point end has two rails and the points, and the frog end has four rails and is near the frog. Now this video you reference is different than wiring a standard turnout because I had to insulate both tracks at the frog end since it is a reverse loop. I also had to include a detector in the midst of all that on each side to be able to control the switch machine. So are you asking me about what I was doing in this specific video or are you asking about what I do for a turnout in normal situations?
@@TheDCCGuy I will reply with additional questions once I get my terminology correct. An issue I have is that it’s hard for me to express my thought process. On a side (but somewhat similar) note my geometry teacher hated that I could walk up to the chalkboard and give her the correct answer, I just could not explain my work as to how I got the correct answer. My mind doesn’t function as his did and that didn’t help matters. Thanks. Please stand by …
More,or,less but the iP Digital has the accessory decode built in plus some intelligent features that makes what Imdid more straightforward. With a Tortoise I would have to have used some other accessory decoder as an interface. DCC Concepts has a new ADiA accessory decoder that should be able to control a Tortoise in much the same way but I have not had time to test it.
Larry! 5:00 Now you want to focus on what’s below your waist level? Great video, I’m glad it was about the tracks and switches instead of what’s in your britches. Lol
So if the straight track loco A is sitting in the "green" detection area, and the curve loco B approaches the turnout entering the "red" detection area, the turnout won't move to the diverge position. Is this the complex approach situation you referred to?
Dear Sir, I am a beginner in this hobby.. I hava small Kato Unitrack HO scale layout at home. Iam planning a DCC Double reverse loop in the layout.. I have some products from DCC Concept in UK.... I have very little knowledge about the loops.. I would appreciate if you help me with the wiring..can you send me a diagram..a sketch drawing of the wiring..Would it be possible to this loop with my HO scale Kato Unitrack and 2-850 / 2*851 powered turnouts...Best Regards... Kamil Işıldak..
If you check the DCCconcepts website or contact their customer support email address they have diagrams on automating reverse loops using their products.
The only problem I had was no analog engines can run on .ass when the polarity changes it causes the train to reverse its direction at the last gap when the ar 10 changes polarity.
Sorry but I haven’t wrapped my brain around that one yet. With 3 turnouts involved it would be more complicate to automate to say the least, if it is possible at all.
I'm learning about reversing sections on DCC layouts by watching videos and reading text from many sources. Some folks talk about reversing polarity, others talk about reversing phase because they say the DCC signal is AC not DC. (And some say it is not an AC signal, it's a digital signal.) So which is it, polarity or phase? It cannot be both, can it? Let's get everyone one talking about what it really is so newcomers like me can learn it right the first time. I understand that with DC powered layout it really is polarity switching but we are talking DCC layouts here.
In reality DCC is not DC and it is not AC, it is DCC. That probably sounds like double talk and that is why you rarely see a technical discussion of the subject and folks just fall back on the polarity concept. What happens is power turns on and off at high speeds on opposite rails, so one rail is on while the other is off, then that is reversed and so on. Consequently the two rails are always out of phase with one another. Confused yet? For a complete discussion of this subject I suggest you read the following website dccwiki.com/DCC_Power .
In this video I too use the term polarity even though it is technically incorrect and really is a matter of a phase mismatch. However most modelers are familiar with the polarity concept so it gets the point across in a way they can understand and relate to. And operationally a short is a short no matter whether it is due to a phase or a polarity mismatch.
Having fixed radios in the military - this is some brilliant stuff here. I can see why people come into this DCC world confused, and many probably stay there all their lives. It is a digital signal that allows the little DC train to live in its DC world independent of any other DC train on the tracks. The decoder in the little train tells the train to take from the always energized tracks what it needs to do in its DC world. The train is clueless that it is living in a digital world. DCC is neither DC nor AC - it is always a positive digital signal in an on and off state where current flows from the high state (ON) to the low state (OFF). There is no negative voltage, and there is no true Zero volt state - it is a high or low digital signal with the off, or low state being some positive voltage. From a radio repairman's eyes - we would call this a floating ground; from a DCC's eyes, they call it magic!
I simply used another Dual Frog Juicer with my turntable-works great every time. I also use another one for my Walthers double crossover. These little things are truly magical!
No 1 menckens that the layout is a loop in its self & if the party is different or reversed you need a gap ass long as your train is also you need a ar 10
I love it! When you said "the intent is to get the dad gummed thing turned around" , I lost it! That is exactly why I love your videos! I mean this with all due respect and adoration. You do a very good job explaining things and are truly a blessing to this hobby!
Good job, Larry. At first it eally looks complicated but the way you explained everything it all make sense.
Thanks for another great video. Tam Valley Frog Juicers have saved me a lot of time wiring the frogs and making my N scale Peco Electrofrog turnouts and double crossover "DCC Friendly" and they also have the added bonus of being able to be used as a auto reverser for wye's, reverse loops, and turntables. Well worth the cost.
Aloha
Thank you Larry, what an ingenious Method of dealing with changing the Polarity on Reverse Loops.
Nice video Larry. I like the use of these new products to simplify operations of the reverse loops and also set up non-derailing turnouts.
Regarding DC operations, if the reverse loop is operated unidirectionally, a way to allow operation through it without stopping is to use a rectifier. By putting it between the output of the direction switch and the reverse loop track what happens is that as the train runs through the reverse loop, when you through the direction switch the rectifier maintains the correct polarity in the reverse loop, thus the train doesn't change direction. AS a result you don't need to stop the train.
I’ve enjoyed my reverse loops for continuous running. I like your options and presentation! Thanks for sharing!
Larry I was able to find a supplier in Canada for the parts needed to build the reverse loop, this is excellent video, very helpful, next step build it
Very ingenious! Thanks again for another invaluable "how-to" video.
Excellant work and explanation. I can't wait to build my railway room again.
Thank you for the detailed illustration on setting this up Larry! i have learned and enjoyed many of your programs and look forward to utilizing these techniques on my new layout which I am on the cusp of beginning. I will have 2 reverse loops in my new configuration and plan to utilize this program as a tutorial when I get to the track stage.
This was the easiest way I could see to do it. Other ways might work but I suspect may get more complicated.
I felt sure that I posted a comment that this video was very timely as I had a virtually identical application planned when this video was first released but can't find it below.
Anyway, after a few delays I have now completed the end-of-branchline staging yard and the reverse loop that supports it by turning the trains to re-orient them for their return call onto the branchline on a good friend's layout. The reverse loop is hidden and while the switch is technically accessible it is very inconvenient to reach over the washer and dryer and my friend wanted it automated to the greatest degree possible anyway. So, early in the new year I ordered the LM-ID detectors and the Cobalt IP Digital switch machine as Larry has used. It took a month for them to arrive from England, much longer than I had hoped but that is life the last couple of years. Earlier this week I completed the installation and wiring of these components and while I never doubted Larry it was great to see it work exactly as advertised/illustrated. I was even lucky enough that my initial guess for which signal wire went to which switch machine input was correct (a very small victory over a recalcitrant universe) so it worked a charm from the get-go, first for a number of runs with my test locomotive and then a test train. Based on Larry's experience I went straight to providing a 12 VDC power source for the LM-ID detectors. I have a 12VDC power bus for this end of the layout for switch machines and other accessories anyway so I simply tapped into it for the detectors and Cobalt IP Digital switch machine power. However the 12v supply means the Cobalt IP runs a bit slow, as do Tortoise machines at 12VDC instead of 16VDC, so if you use a lower DC voltage I recommend making the detector sections as long as possible. My installation uses a full length of flex track so 36". At "normal" track speed for this area the locomotive travels about half the length of the detector block while the Cobalt IP throws the switch points.
I had been looking into how this gets done with the Digitrax BD-4 and DS64 but when I saw this video I immediately knew that it being completely stand alone and free of control inputs was the way to go. The components are not inexpensive, especially with international shipping, but when they work as advertised and enhance the operating experience to the extent that they do in this application, then they become well worth the price.
I have not been the biggest fan of a few videos Larry has put out but most are very good and a few are most pertinent to me as is probably the case for all viewers. This one was almost tailor made for me and hence I see it as one of his very best. I hope others have benefited equally from this or other videos from Larry. Thanks for the help and guidance Larry, Best Cheers.
That's so cool. I have 4 reverse loops, 2 upper and 2 lower. I use digitrax ar1 auto reverser to change the polarity after I'm in the loop. I have to remember to throw the switch for my turnouts. But with this setup it fully automatic.
I got the "Smail" switch machine to work just like the Cobalt Digital switch machine (which you can't find anywhere) in this auto reversing configuration. Just wire the block detectors to the C1-GND-C2 connections on the Smail.
Nice demo Larry thank you
Take care Julian
Great system Larry, love your elaborate explanation!
That was a very interesting video Larry. Thank you.
thank you for detailed video with use DCC in reverse loop
Thank you, Thank you for the clear and detailed video, although I had to use BD-20's which wire up slightly differently, I was able to successfully automate my reverse loop reliably using your guidance. The process has inspired me to look into more automation projects!
Yes, before they developed their similar detectors, they tended to use BD-20s. Did you end up adding power to them or was the logic and ground output enough without it?
@@TheDCCGuy They did work without power but I added power to get LED confirmation with larger bulbs in two colors. I may play with it some more just to avoid the additional power supply, or consider a DC accessory bus connection nearby.
Thanks again, your articles and videos are extremely helpful. See you along the rails.
Excellent information Larry. Thank you for posting these valuable videos!
I have basically a large Single Track DCC Folded Dogbone, where i one half it Loops back close to the Opposing track to give a Double track appearance.
Basically imagine an open loop, Until I add the Crossover Switches.
I want to Add a Single Crossover (2 Switches) between those opposing Mains. Which makes a Reversing Loop plus a straight through continuation on the back track.
Confused about the Continuation cutoff past the Crossover. Tie it into the feeder off a Dual Juicer same Polarity feed as the Main Before the Crossover, opposite of the Loop feeders?
Using Peco Electrofrogs modified for DCC. Manual Throws.
I think you needed to add power as the BD20 was not getting any power with the gaps insulated in the rails. I may do something like this and I really like the switch machines. Thank you.
Larry Finally have my Reverse Loop built on my upper level. The Turnout is insulated on all sides Both rails. I have feeders from my main DCC bus connected in the loop. The train runs thru the main of the turnout and into the loop as it gets close to the diverging leg of turnout it stops short circuit the rails are reversed as expected. On the main line of the turnout about 24 inches up I placed a cut in the rail. I placed feeders black and red (red is inside rail) Black is the cut rail. and connected those two feeders to my Dual Frog Juicer. Also prior to the cut I have a black wire fed down to my NCE BD20 which then connects to my Black mail DCC Bus line. So far following you video all good. on the bd20 I see in your video you have a black blue and white wire.
What I do not see is what pins they are connected to on the BD20 and on the Cobalt IP Digital Machine can you let me know what the names of those pins are on both the BD20 and the Cobalt ip digital? Thanks Tom
Tom-I didn’t use a BD-20, but instead used the DCC Concepts version which is very similar. Somewhere around here I have some info on using the BD-20 in a similar case but just need to fo d it. When I do I’ll email a copy to you.
@@TheDCCGuy Larry Thank you I sent you an email about this also you can reply to that one with the info thanks again. I have my second reverse loop almost completed now for the track but no wiring as of yet. waiting to see how the first reverse loop works
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you so much, Larry, for this great video. I would also be grateful for the info you have on using the BD-20 for triggering the turnout throw. Can you use a tortoise machine instead of the Cobalt? I also use the Freiwald Industries Train Controller software for automatic train running for guests, etc., which would require a third BD-20 to be used for block occupancy detection in the actual reverse loop as well -- would this additional BD-20 interfere with the two controlling the turnout position, or visa versa?
I had an "automated" uni-direction reverse loop on my last layout, I used a DCC reverser and a six inch length of spring wire with just enough tension to hold the points close but still allow my lightest car to push the points over to allow safe passage.
Railroads call that a spring switch. Works fine as long as ALL your rolling stock will hold the rails. I’d hate to find out I had one light car in a 20 car string cause a derailment on a reverse loop buried deep under the layout.
Great video. Was looking to do this but now I'm limited to a 4×4 area which is not going to happen.... Larry truthfully, I could of used all your advice 5 years ago before I built my layout., But I'm not and as we all say never finished modeling...but I'm not even close I am using most of what you teached as I'm fixing tunnel track and I have to finish doing my yard in my open closet where I have to put it and at the end of my 13+4 middle section... That's where I wanted this cause also I'm going to make a yard n passenger station. But my city is there with my elevated subway so only 4+4 room left for this... Your videos are great knowledge that I am absorbing. Thanks buddy keep it up, joe aka ( DIESEL 027)....
I also use the Digitrax system, I am using circuit breakers to protect the layout in the event of a short circuit, Now I had a problem when using my PM42 set up to control reverse loops in that I've had to use sections of track at each end of the reverse loops and feed those directly from the DCS 210 controller because if I used the circuit protection, the circuit protection would operate before the PM42 had a chance to do its job. since wiring it this way the PM42 works great.
What kind of circuit breakers were you using with the PM42?
@@TheDCCGuy I am a member of MERG. You could find them on the internet. MERG is a group of people made up of members and some of the members who are involved with the running of the club, have over the years, become very knowledgeable and skilled in what they do. They put together different electronic kits, which can be purchased by members and there are various kits for model railroading.
I purchased 4 circuit breaker kits and built them myself by soldering the components onto circuit boards. I set the trip current at 3A but the electronics of the boards are more sensitive than the PM42 which is why I don't feed the reverse loops with the over current protection of the breakers. As it is more or less impossible to get a short on the reverse loop itself I'm OK with doing that. and if it came to a short occurring the DCS 210 would operate to protect itself, in the same way as when one tests the track at various parts for continuity. I could give you the kit number if that would help, but I believe they only do just the one kit for track protection, I have 3 levels and use one for each level.
Thanks for your video Larry.
In the video the term “DCC Power Bus” is used. In some other videos you refer to a “DCC Accessory Bus”. My question is, are the red and green wires going through the headstones to the isolated track section, to the switch motor, and the clear copper to the Frog Juicer/Auto Reverser unit all on a separate power source and not track power? I have tried DCC REX using their wiring diagram and was unsuccessful. Did Mick answer the questions you had? Hoping you might make a video showing it in use. All the Best
The DCC power bus and the DCC accessory bus can actually be one or two separate 2 wire buses depending on your approach. The DCC power bus is used first to power the tracks, but it can also be used to power DCC accessory decoders, devices, and even some other accessories. However I suggest having a separate DCC accessory bus for several reasons. Fir example if you use DCC accessory decoders to control your switch machines then by isolating them from the power bus they are protected from shorts. When I was at Warley last fall the DCC Concepts demo layout stopped working because a short created by a loco reset all the accessory decoder addresses and they had to reprogram all of them to get it to work again. Having an isolated DCC accessory power bus would have prevented that. You can also have one booster dedicated for the main DCC power bus and a second one just for the accessory bus. That way your accessories don’t use up your power you need to run locos. In this video I used a combined bus approach simply because it was simpler and easier to set up.
@@TheDCCGuy Let me ask in a different way. Are the isolated tracks leading into the reverse loop getting DCC power from something other than primary track power? Thanks for explain the pros of the separate accessory bus for switch motors.
Everything is powered by the same power bus. The polarity of the isolated reverse loop track is controlled by the autoreverser.
Great teachings as usual Larry. I'm having troubles getting my small brain around my reverse loop issue. for ease of explanation, i have a oval track, with a track going from one side to the opposite of the oval. I'm not sure where i need to isolate and put my reversing decoder(s)
Reverse loops can be simple as with the examples I showed on the diagrams. However others in complex track work can be difficult to diagnose. Basically though if you trace a line through any track work and find it reconnects back on itself through a turnout then that likely is a reverse loop even it it does not look like a loop. Wyes for example are such a reversing situation. Chapter 7 in my wiring book deals with reverse loops, wyes, and turntables all of which have this issue.
Larry which version of the cobalt switch machine did you use , I did check DCC concepts link u posted, has a great diagram
iPDigital
I preferred the Azatrax "spring switch" set up. It works great.
Thanks Larry, 🐾🚂 BearCreek Model RR, KY.
You bet
If the train is coming from the right, your left in the video, can you select straight through or diverging route? Or are you limited to the last position direction? I realize that this is simply a hidden turn around so in this case it does not matter. If it were applied that it is visible can you select direction, or is that a much more complicated wiring project. Thank you in advance.
This is just designed as a hidden turnout loop so no provisions for directionality, which would require a more complicated logic based system and more detectors. Since I no longer plan on using the reverse loop I am glad not to have to fuss with designing such a system.
Great explanation, Thank-you. Two questions occur to me though, 1) am I correct in assuming that there's no complication caused by having staging sidings inside the reverse loop, and b) if this were adapted to a wye, I think I would need another juicer, 4 more current detectors, and of course 2 more cobalt switch motors, correct? A follow up discussion of wiring a wye might be a good idea for another video. Thank-you again for this; your videos have given me the confidence to believe I can move from DC to DCC and I'm really looking forward to it.
As long as they are fully inside the reverse loops you should be OK. As for the wye those look more complicated than they actually are. I think it depends on where you put the reversing section and autoreverser. For example if you have a long enough tail track you might be able to get by with just flipping polarity on it and not have to worry about the other locations, at least that’s what I wrote in my book!
Thank-you
Thanks Larry. You always make things easy to follow and understand. I am about to install a couple of reversing loops using PSX-AR. I think I know what to do but if you were to do another video on this product, I'd love to see it. The PSX-AR is single device that does the whole thing - reverse the polarity plus throw the switch to the correct direction.
Larry , did you resolve the 12 volt power issue, I want to combine this with a helix similar to the one you are building now , a great combo , can you post a wire diagram for this set up , excellent job , I love this
I honestly don’t remember a 12 volt power issue, can you point me to a specific time stamp in the video where I mentioned it?
Hi Larry sure no problem, I will re watch , it is a great video
Larry at the 14:49 minute mark power to the block detection
I have asked the guys at DCC Concepts for a clarification. The instructions do say that in order to operate an LED or other device you need to provide either DC or DCC power, so maybe the iP Digitals do require the extra power input. I hope to hear back by tomorrow.
Larry great , I plan to build hidden staging yard and reverse loop. Using a helix to reach my main level, so I am watching your videos learning more thanks
Thanks for the video. If you have a wye to turn your Locomotive around. Would you wire it the same way
Yes, in theory you could do it. But it would be a lot more complicated since there are 3 turnouts involved instead of 1. If I were to do it I would only automate the turnout at the tail end and the autoreversing section.
Two questions: 1) If I wanted manually induce the turnout switch to change, what would I need to add to this configuration. 2) Are these modules brand agnostic? Meaning, does it matter which brand DCC controller I use? (I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter, but I want to double check.)
I think that by placing a momentary pushbutton switch across a gap you create a sort just like you loco wheels and initiate a reversal. And yes, this could be done with any DCC system.
In the video you said that you needed to add a 12v power supply to the dcc concept sensor to make it work. Did you ever find out why that was the case fro DCC concepts? Is the 12v supply needed or is there a way to wire this to allow for the non 12v approach?
Their response was that it does need the power supply, the instructions need updating.
@@TheDCCGuy thank you for getting back to me so quickly with an answer. love your channel.
If you were to add circuit protection (lightbulb) where would you place it? Thanks...
I wouldn’t use one, they are too slow and don’t kill power, just limit it. But I have done videos for those who insist. Just isolate the block of track and wire the bulb at the point where you create the bus or sub-bus to power the block.
Thank you so much for this I really needed this for my layout! BUT......... I do have a dilemma. One of my reversal loops is in fact a direction oriented loop which requires the train to always take a specific side on approach. What I've now learned ( which NO ONE on the internet will mention) is that with a reverse unit you MUST enter from where you exit or it will short out. Do you have any insight on how to handle this or is this NOT a job for off the shelf reversers?
Update: Magic happened and it started working. I have a whole bunch of theories but I'm clueless. I'm not gonna fuss though, I have a specified approach reverse loop and it's working.
I saw in another video they were using the Digitrax AR1. The loop was long, though no distance was given, but they connected the AR1 at both ends of the loop, saying it prevented any delay in detection when crossing into the Main Line versus just one end only.
Is that necessary? I have not seen or heard of that issue before. Potential concerns when/if connecting at both ends of the loop?
Larry All my parts arrived two questions
Question 1
On the BD20 you connected them to a 12 Volt power supply. Can I connect them to my 16 Volt DC buss line and put a reducer near and have a 12VDC buss line ?
Question 2.
On the Dual Frog Juicer DDFJ003U the same one your using. Can I connect that to my DCC accessory Bus Line ? or to my same bus line my Track feeders are on?
Thank you in advance
Tom
I would recommend running the Frog Juicers off the same bus as your track and turnouts. I’ll get you something on the other question ASAP.
Nice presentation Larry, thankyou. I might have missed something tho, the polarity change is taken care of by the auto reverser and you needed a signal from the two sensors? When I set up a auto reverser for my turntable, I only used ( a Lenz unit) a auto reverser and no sensing devices to achieve the switching.
So, I assume the load sensors are for changing the turnout?
Yes, with this setup the detectors just handle the switch machine and the auto reverser handles the reverse loop polarity, it senses polarity mismatches internally and does not need external sensors or detectors.
Larry, why do you use foam rather than cork for your roadbed? Is it less expensive or what??? Thanks again for another great video!
No, the cork roadbed is laid on top of 5he foam insulation board as I show on many of my videos.
Larry, I appreciate the video. I am planning to use the DCC Specialities PSX-AR. I have one question. You fixed the auto switching and poliarity from within the loop. How can you pre determine the switch machine to go left or right from out side the loop when approaching the loop. What you had just takes the last direction used.
As I think I said in the video setting it up for a fixed route gets very complicated. It will likely require some sort of flip flop logic circuit and possibly optical detectors. I have never seen it done. You might check with some companies that sell DCC electronic circuitry.
@@TheDCCGuy After viewing this video, I later viewed your review of the Cobalt Switch Machine. You mentioned the option to add a Momentary button to the switch machine. I feel this would give me the option to chose which direction to enter the loop. Thanks for your help. Thanks for your practical presentations.
In that video the detector is sending a command to the switch machine to change and if you add a pushbutton it would create a potential signal conflict.Let me ask the DCC Concepts guys whether they have a solution. They are at a big show this weekend so I won’t hear anything back until next week so remind me if I don’t get back to you by mid-week.
I heard back from them and they don’t have a circuit specially for that. However I found the Digikeijs DR5013 autoreversing blackboxes designed for automating reverse loops and a company at www.azatrax.com that makes them. You do have to search through their pages but eventually you can get down to their circuit. I am sure there are a lot of other basements electricians selling such circuits just do a Google search.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks for your help. This will go a long way to doing what I want.
Larry, when building this in the "bowels" of your layout, the implication is that you cannot see what is going on down there, much the same as a train going through an inaccessible tunnel. I am wondering what you might think about installing a CCTV to monitor those areas that you can't see without difficulty to watch what is going on, and how that might be set up. It would actually be very prototypical; I am retired from UP and have dealt with Big Brother watching my every move both in the yard office and sitting at the throttle. I could see the benefits of such a set-up for something other than disciplining operating crews (not that I am bitter...).
Got one already that will monitor the staging yard entrance/ladder. May get another for this hidden loop as well.
you're the best!
I use DCC Specialties PSX-AR on my layout and they seem much simpler than this and they work perfectly..
Good to hear that as I have one to try out on another revers loop. I have in the past had difficulty programming the CVs on my PSX4.
I completely agree! Need to make sure that you get the PSX-sc that controls a switch too. Only 5 wires. 2 to your isolated section and 3 to the switch. They work flawlessly. It even handles when you flip the switch manually.
I want to construct a layout with a reverse loop where the loco enters on one turnout and leaves on another. My dilemma is whether one AutoReverse mechanism will open the forward turnout and close the previous turnout simultaneously.
Without seeing your track plan it is hard to comment. Usually in a revers loop the loco enters and leaves via the same turnout. Do you plan some land of crossovers in there that creates the reversing issue? At any rate it sounds as though you will need 2 circuit boards to handle the two turnouts, but without more info I cannot be certain.
This is great info. Thank you. I use the PSX AR and noticed in their instructions they suggest staggering the rail gaps by 0.75". I do have occasional shorting problems with lighted passenger cars that I cannot attibute to anything I can detect, yet my gaps are not staggered. Do you have any thoughts on this?
I asked Larry Meir, the developer about those staggered gaps and he admitted it really wasn’t critical that they be 0.75”, just they be offset a little. I can’t remember whether he told me why they are needed though. Another thing is to never leave a load such as a lighted car, loco, etc. across a gap. Also check you voltages on each side of block gaps and make sure there is no sig difference between them. If lighted cars are a problem you might try increasing your trip threshold setting a bit to give the block more capacity.
@@TheDCCGuy Super helpful! Thank you.
This is why I prefer insulfrog points! Cheaper alternative too
The type of tunrnout doesn’t matter you’ll still need to handle reverse loop polarity and switch the points. The only thing an Insulfrog gets you is not having to power the frog which may result in small locos stalling on the dead frog.
@@TheDCCGuy my peco code 100 insulfrogs work perfectly here in uk
We are having a discussion on the MR forum as to whether an insulated metal wheelset (no car lighting involved) will trigger a reverser. Can you shed some light please?
If you are using a device that senses the mismatch in “polarity” like the dual Frog Juicer and several others, then metals wheels will trigger the autoreverser since there will be a short when the metal wheels bridge the gaps. Plastic wheels will not trigger the device.
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you
Larry thanks for the great video. I've been using servos for my hand built turnouts on the mainline but am wanting to automate the turnouts for a reversing move. I was interested in using the Cobalt digitals and a PSXAR. Would I still need those block detectors you used on your example? What brand are they? Thanks again.
Fro what I have studied on this that could get very complicated. The method I used was the simplest way I could do it and I have a PSX-AR and on hand. I’d have to study this a bit more to see if it can control,your servos but I bet it will. As I remember it must have built in detection but it has been a long time since I looked at that material.
@@TheDCCGuy thanks again Larry. Yes I am currently using servos for the turnouts in question but am thinking about switching them out for the cobalts. Would I need anything else besides the PSXAR and the cobalts or would you suggest something different be used?
Since the PSX-AR seems to have its own detection system and has output to control a Tortoise or other switch machine I think you would be good to go. The drawback with all the PSX devices is setting the CVs (configuration variables) as there is no reliable way to actually know that you have programmed they way you want them. The thing I like about the Dual Frog Juicer is no programming is needed. Just hook up the wires, set the jumpers and it’s ready for action. With the Cobalt Digital all I did was change the address, wire it up to the detectors and power them and it was ready to go. I do use a PSX4 on the output from my DCS240 and I never did get it programmed correctly til I sent it back for a firmware update and they programmed it for me there. Tons of options but a PITA to program.
Just a quick question.... I watched dwarf signals episode, and did not see anything about wiring signals with snap switches... Is it just automatic?
They are designed to work with either DCC or reversing power connections so I don’t see how a snap switch feed would work as they are common/L/R. You might ask the folks at DCC Concepts though as I know they do make solenoid based snap type switch machines. Try j.whiteside@dccconcepts.com
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you...
Larry What size track did you use? I mean I see the Atlas turnout #4 #6 561 562? which Number? and then the curves what radius. 15 18 22 ? trying to design my Reverse loop for my upper level building a helix to go from one level the next
Tom, those are #6 turnouts and a 3’ radius reverse loop.
@@TheDCCGuy Larry Ok on the #6 turnout but for the curve to join at both ends how many pieces of curve did you use and what radius on them 18 15 20 22?
I don’t use sectional track, it is all flextrack which can be bent to any radius. The full curve has not been built yet but will have a circumference=2*Pi*r
Larry, thanks for all your advice! Hopefully you can keep these awesome videos coming!
Can I add sidings or a run around track inside of the loop?
Sure, just as long as they are within the reversing block.
I am a complete newb to DCC and I want to make model railroad my next hobby - last time I played with trains was before 1980 and DCC didn't exist yet. Now, in today's age (2022), aren't there any battery powered locos that are managed via bluetooth/wifi that would simplify all these electric problems? I want to play with trains, not become an electrical engineer ;-) Great video! +1
Watch my videos on Friday and Monday.
So, from previous vlogs I’ve seen you do, on every DCC turnout you power the single end and insulate the end that diverges and the end that continues straight. So in addition to insulating the double end do I need this device as well?
I am not exactly sure what you are asking me but just so we can talk about the same thing let’s get the terms straight first. Turnouts have a point end and a frog end. The point end has two rails and the points, and the frog end has four rails and is near the frog. Now this video you reference is different than wiring a standard turnout because I had to insulate both tracks at the frog end since it is a reverse loop. I also had to include a detector in the midst of all that on each side to be able to control the switch machine. So are you asking me about what I was doing in this specific video or are you asking about what I do for a turnout in normal situations?
@@TheDCCGuy I will reply with additional questions once I get my terminology correct. An issue I have is that it’s hard for me to express my thought process. On a side (but somewhat similar) note my geometry teacher hated that I could walk up to the chalkboard and give her the correct answer, I just could not explain my work as to how I got the correct answer. My mind doesn’t function as his did and that didn’t help matters. Thanks. Please stand by …
Will this setup work with the "Smail" switch machine in the same fashion?
Unless they have changed them the Smail doesn’t have the built-in switch mechanism of the iP-Digitals.
Was the polarity in the loop changed or in the feeder main?
In the loop.
So does a Tortoise switch work the same as theDCC concespts IP Digital ?
More,or,less but the iP Digital has the accessory decode built in plus some intelligent features that makes what Imdid more straightforward. With a Tortoise I would have to have used some other accessory decoder as an interface. DCC Concepts has a new ADiA accessory decoder that should be able to control a Tortoise in much the same way but I have not had time to test it.
Awesome!
Larry! 5:00 Now you want to focus on what’s below your waist level? Great video, I’m glad it was about the tracks and switches instead of what’s in your britches. Lol
I caught that onw too, but I wasn't going to say anything...
And right after he said that he said it was going to be down in the bowels and he would need a crawler to get down in there.
Vary interesting!
cant we use a bridge rectifier? its so simple to use it
Use it for what?
Also, which Atlas turnout did you use?
Standard #6.
You know Larry.... I would gladly subscribe and hit the bell if you would explain how the items are connected. The command, breakers, and booster
Take a look at videos 107-108.
Sooo . . All of the track, wiring and electronics are UNDER your layout ? ?
I doubt you’d want it on top of your layout, would you?
So if the straight track loco A is sitting in the "green" detection area, and the curve loco B approaches the turnout entering the "red" detection area, the turnout won't move to the diverge position.
Is this the complex approach situation you referred to?
Dear Sir, I am a beginner in this hobby.. I hava small Kato Unitrack HO scale layout at home. Iam planning a DCC Double reverse loop in the layout.. I have some products from DCC Concept in UK.... I have very little knowledge about the loops.. I would appreciate if you help me with the wiring..can you send me a diagram..a sketch drawing of the wiring..Would it be possible to this loop with my HO scale Kato Unitrack and 2-850 / 2*851 powered turnouts...Best Regards... Kamil Işıldak..
If you check the DCCconcepts website or contact their customer support email address they have diagrams on automating reverse loops using their products.
THANKS A LOT ..BEST REGARDS..@@TheDCCGuy
The only problem I had was no analog engines can run on .ass when the polarity changes it causes the train to reverse its direction at the last gap when the ar 10 changes polarity.
Do you have a video on a Y?
Sorry but I haven’t wrapped my brain around that one yet. With 3 turnouts involved it would be more complicate to automate to say the least, if it is possible at all.
How about a wiring diagram?
What do you use for your layout looks like a hard foam board?
See video 140. Foam/No Foam Does It Matter
@@TheDCCGuy
Ok great ty.
I'm learning about reversing sections on DCC layouts by watching videos and reading text from many sources. Some folks talk about reversing polarity, others talk about reversing phase because they say the DCC signal is AC not DC. (And some say it is not an AC signal, it's a digital signal.) So which is it, polarity or phase? It cannot be both, can it? Let's get everyone one talking about what it really is so newcomers like me can learn it right the first time. I understand that with DC powered layout it really is polarity switching but we are talking DCC layouts here.
In reality DCC is not DC and it is not AC, it is DCC. That probably sounds like double talk and that is why you rarely see a technical discussion of the subject and folks just fall back on the polarity concept. What happens is power turns on and off at high speeds on opposite rails, so one rail is on while the other is off, then that is reversed and so on. Consequently the two rails are always out of phase with one another. Confused yet? For a complete discussion of this subject I suggest you read the following website
dccwiki.com/DCC_Power .
@@TheDCCGuy I'm reading that right now. Gorey details. That's good. Thanks for the reply.
In this video I too use the term polarity even though it is technically incorrect and really is a matter of a phase mismatch. However most modelers are familiar with the polarity concept so it gets the point across in a way they can understand and relate to. And operationally a short is a short no matter whether it is due to a phase or a polarity mismatch.
Having fixed radios in the military - this is some brilliant stuff here. I can see why people come into this DCC world confused, and many probably stay there all their lives. It is a digital signal that allows the little DC train to live in its DC world independent of any other DC train on the tracks. The decoder in the little train tells the train to take from the always energized tracks what it needs to do in its DC world. The train is clueless that it is living in a digital world. DCC is neither DC nor AC - it is always a positive digital signal in an on and off state where current flows from the high state (ON) to the low state (OFF). There is no negative voltage, and there is no true Zero volt state - it is a high or low digital signal with the off, or low state being some positive voltage. From a radio repairman's eyes - we would call this a floating ground; from a DCC's eyes, they call it magic!
Larry, Is there an email address that I can email you a somewhat complicated reverse loop question? Thank you, phil wells.
you could also just use ac?
When you think you are good at controlling reverse loops then try wiring turntable bridge rails.
I simply used another Dual Frog Juicer with my turntable-works great every time. I also use another one for my Walthers double crossover. These little things are truly magical!
Electro frog switches are more difficult then insulfrog do to the wireing in volved
perfect timing for me , very interested in the cobalt rex option, once you get it clarified with DCC concepts.
I found another of their diagrams that shows that configuration, now I just have to test it to satisfy myself it works.
No 1 menckens that the layout is a loop in its self & if the party is different or reversed you need a gap ass long as your train is also you need a ar 10
way over my head,
DCC technology can be a challenge for many folks. You just need to start with the basics and expand out from there.
lionel is so much easier for kids
No more ar 1 on my layout .?ar 10 much better.
you are usually much better then this, you took a pretty straight forward topic and made it way complicated.
I recently went back and changed the wiring a bit to simplify it and make it less complicated. Now I just have to work an update into the schedule.
But technically that's only half of a reversing loop.