EFAP Mini - The React Wars - MauLer vs. Destiny feat. Mutahar and Aba
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- Destiny - / @destiny
Mutahar - / @someordinarygamers
Aba - / @abanpreach
Fringy - / thefringy123
Rags - / @rags
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A Fansite that's all about EFAP - efap.me/
A Community to discuss EFAP - / mauler
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This essentially uses PayPal instead of going through UA-cam - streamlabs.com...
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I think the moral of the story here is that nobody should ever watch Hasan, ever.
He'd just ban you
Even he agrees@@morganseppy5180
I still don't get why people support him. He's egomaniac, a hypocrite, a leech, has anger issues, flip flops his opinions based on who the target is, is extremely unhinged and bans you for any slight disappointment.... I can go on and on, but he's got millions of sheeps worship him. Lol.
The only two people allowed to justifiably watch Hasan without scrutiny are Sitch and Adam Friended
That ain't a moral that should be a commandment.
The most egregious comment destiny made was implying mauler would do a single hour breakdown of interstellar
MauLer's breakdown of it would be atleast 5 hours long easily.
@@ramert32part 1*
@@emeraldwarrior588 Right. Correction- Part 1 of an epic 10 parter
I hate you... I just spit out a mouthful of my drink all over my fiance. Beautiful comment though would need to be an 8 part series over the next thirty years
I get that genuine childlike glee when Mauler crosses over into other spheres.
It’s like when Batman shows up in an episode of Superman.
Everybody loves a crossover lol
I fucking loved those episodes dude
Holy shit! THAT’s what that feeling is! Lol.
I only hope as LongMan’s fame grows, he is able to maintain his physical concealment. Earth isn’t ready to gaze upon his countenance.
@@wytho3751 Even as he gets more popular, there’s no camera device on earth that could fit his length into frame. He should be safe 🦕
@@zogwort1522 Wasn't it "queer activists" who said being gay was not a choice? So how did they "become gay?" This sort of goal post moving mind-numbingly idiotic takes are why your activism is losing ground after dominating the culture for 30 years.
The guy who plays full videos, goes to the toilet for 10 minutes and comes back to say "wuuut" while eating nuggies is not equal to the guy who actually analyzes a 10 minute video for 10 hours, with extensive tangents.
Exactly. EFAP pauses so often that you do not get the experience of the reacted to video. You may recieve a lot of the information conveyed in the video, and see some of the editing or hear some of the audio, but most videos on UA-cam are a mix of information and visual and audio editing that comes together ina specifc way at a specofc length to make content, which EFAP destroys most of via all the pausing, preserving the experience of watching the video by itself.
@@BananaMana69You know it's transformative when they take a 10-15 minute video and make it into a 2-5 hour stream
@@BananaMana69What's sad is reaction content fans would say exactly what you just said followed by "And that's why they suck! I don't wanna hear people think, shut up and play the vid!"
Mauler debating shows what a class act he really is... never interrupts anyone, argues in good faith and I always got the impression he's genuinely trying to understand the other parties POV. Very pleasant to listen to. Thanks Mewbshlie.
Longman is a blessing
Probably my favorite person on the internet to watch/listen to. Absolute champion
Bro, have you seen his Amazing Spider-Man 2 debate? He came off so bad in that one.
Mauler is a very good debater. Objectively in my opinion.
@@spenser9908Ima rewatch that one. But can you sum it up at all?
Who would have thought that a simple, innocent weird house tour from Jay Exci would have led to so much drama and debate 😂
tbf this has been a discussion and drama source for many many years now
It’s a lot bigger than that. Jay is just a really good example
I like that he re-sparked, or should we say widened, the conversation. It is very interesting to follow how people see it. And I like Jay's video on Hassan's "reaction".
I’m curious, why has this topic blown up again? Is it really just cause Mutahar made a tweet calling out react streamers? The whole Jay arc “finished” months ago.
@@mrshmuga9 I think xqc watched a certain "Lemmino" 's video on the stream . And u can just imagine what happened on that stream...
1:47:08 If Fringy were here, he might cite the Simpsons episode where Homer discovers the concept of challenging people to duels and uses it to intimidate people for petty reasons...and then is caught completely unprepared when someone actually accepts the challenge.
I thought that was an It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia episode?
@@KinoFlexReviews It was also that, though it was just a one-scene joke in It’s Always Sunny.
Sometimes I forget just how popular Mauler is on the internet
Yup
Well he is the Long Man
In my mind, he's still just a niche guy with his small corner of the Internet. Then I check his channel and see the people he can reach with relative ease, and I snap back to reality.
He’s so long it’s hard to miss him
Wait he's popular?
Kind of Mauler to platform an up-and-coming black female streamer.
Why is that all surprising?
If she's willing to talk and actually has things to say, he’ll most likely platform her or anybody.
@@Lobsterwithinternet Well, because the Efap boys are obviously sexist and racist.
@Lobsterwithinternet ....it's a sarcastic comment, saying destiny is a girl's name is a bit of a meme for his community and adding on the other parts is just further growth of the meme.
@@ciege7486 Sorry.
Only know Destiny from his debate with Metokur and that one time he clowned on DSP for not knowing anything about cars.
@@Lobsterwithinternetoh, there is also a point in this video where Destiny makes a dig at being “black and latinX”.
I thought that is what they were referencing.
That DMCA tangent is pissing me off. For Christ's sake, take the legality out of it. Hasan took Jay's video. Hasan played it on his stream. Hasan walked away to do whatever. When Hasan came back he barely said anything. When the video was almost over, Hasan rushed to close it out to prevent Jay from promoting his channel. Hasan didn't credit Jay in any way. Hasan did not transform Jay's video. Hasan stole Jay's video. Jay suffered the harm. All Jay asked is that you, the streamer, credit him or transform the video. That is it.
Take the worthless DMCA argument out of it. Credit the original. Transform the content.
I consider it to still be transformative
@@samlastname1662point is just promote jay its just hasan being an dick
You can’t take the legality out of it because it’s there to protect people from exactly those kinds of situations.
We really need to bring back bullying against these lazy reaction streamers. Looks like Internet sorta normalized low effort reaction streams post 2020
@@samlastname1662 To clarify, you consider walking away and letting the video play transformative?
To answer the first question of the debate: principally I take issue with thieves. The fact that this particular thief lives in a mansion and is an admitted socialist who wants to raise my taxes only intensifies my ire. Listening to Destiny's contrarianism I realize that this is why we need things like the 10 commandments, some people really can just reason their way to any poor position if they so please.
You sound like one sad mfer. Not everyone is a Christian even if we'd like them to be. Try living in the real world where everyone has different frameworks
Only need one commandment, mate.
Don't be a dick.
"reason"
To answer the question with another question, why do we need to give a principle reason? Why cant we have multiple reasons against something?
“Any excuse will serve a tyrant.”
Also, we already have the 10 Commandments and it still didn't stop anything from happening.
What does is law enforcement.
The audacity of Destiny to blow off Maulers point on that creators don't want to DMCA one another. For the reason they don't want to file a DMCA because of the stigma it has as a dirty word in the industry and lack of transparency or understanding as a tool it has had for how many fucking years. And be like "wow you don't care about your job if you don't know how to dmca" meanwhile a minute later is arguing with 2 other also large youtubers that collectively show that they don't actually know how it works.
Wow it's as if Mauler was completely right about his point originally. 🤡
Has he never heard of Mundane Matt?
@@supershadey09
Destiny is too busy thinking he's so superior to Mundane Matt that he pretends he doesn't know about him.
Ok after listening to this convo a few times I can’t help but think Destiny is totally wrong. 1)”if it’s such a big deal why nobody is doing something about it?” is a horrible argument and if you apply that logic to anything much more serious you can tell. “Well if slavery is so bad why are there more slaves now than ever before? If slaves were REALLY negatively affected by slavery they should use the farming tools to revolt” 2)His other points pretty much can be summoned up by consequentialism “so what if someone just re-uploaded someone else’s work if that gave them exposure?” Yeah try telling that to a film studio for uploading their film on UA-cam for free
"If slaves had an easy way out of slavery and they just had to levy an extremely intangible amount of social capital to do it and they didn't do it I'd imagine slavery probably wasn't that bad" would probably be Destiny's response. He thinks dmca is a cookie cutter way to deal with problematic reacts.
Now this is a collab I did not expect.
MauLer and Mutahar!?
In a video together!?
This is great!
Aba, Mutahar, Destiny, and Mauler are great. I want more of these collabs.
@@TheDataByteChannelfacts
*Aba & Preach* x *MauLer* is one crossover I never expected in my wildest dreams.
Based cast . . . and hassan
We're not even 4 min in and Destiny has clowned himself. Transformative content is not worse than theft. It's not even a matter of weighing between the two. Transformative content is acceptable, theft is not. Good gravy.
I thought I was the only one who said ”good gravy” lol.
@@mrshmuga9Good rat with gravy?
_Bro, just dmca them if they're stealing your content,_ followed by _But you don't have to go to court if you don't want to_ kind of completely defeats the purpose of a dmca. It's only effective when it has the threat of the fangs of "I'll see you in court, Mfer" behind it and you _mean_ it. If, as the content creator, it becomes known that you will file a dmca but then lose the game of court-chicken when it comes right down to it, then why would any "reactor" bother to not just steal your content if they know you're not actually going to do anything about it. Also, the dmca has been misused so many times that I know a lot of UA-camrs in particular who shy away from it, even if they'd be totally in the right to use it.
I just got a kick out of the irony displayed when they reacted to jays video, destiny barely saying anything while mauler kept pausing to try to initiate(force?) decent react content, lol
Thats amazing lol
It was especially funny from DGG perspective because you already know Destiny only pauses to flash on somebody in chat saying something he doesn't like. 😂
@@Slinkwater
It’s hilarious because DGG constantly makes fun of Hasan for doing the same thing, but they seem to forget that Destiny does the same shit
@@ImortalZeus13 I swear everytime it paused even I was like "who's talking shit in chat?!"
Yea, it was honestly hilarious when he was talking about how gameplay was no different from reaction. Like you're actually forced to do something? You actually must interact with the content instead of acting interested. That being said his "opinions" are essentially questions. "I guess that's the problem, right? Thats the question? Thats the situation, right?"
I just happened to be watching Destiny's stream and he starts talking about react content. I was thinking "Wow, this would be great if Mauler could throw in his 2 cents." 30mins later like a summoned familiar Mewbshlie appears. Christmas came early
The long man is always there, waiting to be summoned by though whose speak the eldritch tisms
MauLer does a pretty damn good job of pinning Destiny down and forcing him into the difficult situation of having to admit that he engages in unethical behavior. Every time MauLer tries to get him to concede it, Destiny weasels out of it. This guy knows what he's doing is wrong and is refusing to admit it.
lmao you and I watched 2 different videos.
Have you seen any of Destiny's stuff? It seems like you're lumping him in with hassan but haven't actually seen his content
@@Wolf_ManJack what kind of passive aggressive shit is this? tag me next time you wanna talk shit about me.
and "articulate" what? the dude seems to think MauLer was trying to force Destiny into to admitting he engages in unethical behavior. But that wasn't in the video at all. 2:14:28 was the closest thing I could find for that but it's not where near "forcing Destiny into to admitting he engages in unethical behavior."
@@weirdo3116"you and I watch two different videos"
> Proceeds to timestamp the section I'm talking about
Yeah, maybe I use strong language to emphasize my point, but clearly you understood me so...
@@CptnCardboard " but clearly you understood me so..." no lmao. I linked the closest thing I thought it could be. that doesn't mean I understood you. or is this that " I'm using strong language" thing you're doing again?
and I clearly said that even then it was no where NEAR what you where saying. it's far beyond "using strong language. to emphasize my point".
Reminder that MauLer abandoned poor Metal to do this, which fills me with joy
Sacrifices had to be made
Should've not invaded Poland. That was on him.
The good ending
Facts
🤣 you never disappoint.
Destiny's takeaway from Jay's video being "this guy's super mad" is the most staggeringly ignorant thing I've seen this far in.
Jay was beyond charitable when this whole thing happened.
I want to say he was joking, but i don't know with destiny anymore
Especially considering Jay is that guy who rarely does get mad, and if he did, you would 100% know it.
He isn't known as the EFAP mediator for nothing
Thumbnail is definitely on point ! The empty chair oh god ! We're back at it again ! 🤣
Most definitely, I can’t wait for more streams like this!
I swear to god, they never admit it outright, but ALL of these streamers basically give up on trying to characterize what they’re doing as “good”. It’s always “It might be lazy and potentially harmful but the ends justify the means.”
They all know deep down that something unfair is occurring.
They just don't care. They haven't put in the time and effort to create content so they don't know how it feels to get it ripped off. And apparently lack the empathy to understand the issue.
58:15 -- _"Our legal system is a good thing!"_
Oh god, where is Nick Rekieta to set Destiny straight on this?
Seriously, ask Nick how a DMCA claim actually plays out.
Honestly, it would be pretty cool to have an EFAP centered around the legality of copyright and DMCA.
Maybe invite Rekieta Law, Emily Baker, hell even invite LegalEagle to get his take on it.
@@dualwieldroxas358Yeah, and then they can also ask LegalEagle about how Don touching Captain Marvel's map is battery, justifying crushing his hand and stealing his bike.
I don't think LegalEagle would be up for something like that, I don't think he streams or interact much with the audience, but Rekieta probably could.
When I saw that, I just remembered all the looting in Cali and NYC. And the times store owners got jail time for defending their store and customers from robbers. Sharia law is more stable than the Legal System.
Based. Sharia is indeed better than our legal system in maintaining order.
"It's okay to do a bad thing if it has good consequences!"
As if this justification hasn't been used for abominable shit. Consequentialism defeats itself.
Interesting
Wait when did anyone say that ? Im actually curious cause imight have missed that
Reminds me of the socialists justifying killing the tsars and their whole family... Because It was "necessary for the cause".
@@nospmoth6923I've boiled down an argument Destiny keeps making. He's arguing that stealing content isn't bad if it doesn't have negative consequences.
Depends on the context of what the bad thing is. To use an example from fiction, in the 2000's TV show Burn Notice, the main character, Michael Weston, manipulates an underboss of a cuban gang to blow up his viciously violent boss with a bomb that was intended for Michael's client.
The point the show makes is that sometimes good people do bad things for good reasons, sometimes bad people do good things for bad reasons.
However, (SPOILER ON A PRETTY DECENT SHOW)
We later find out that Michael once blew up a weapons factory in eastern europe to eliminate a terrorist, but killed a lot of people in the process. He did so under the influence of a very bad man, but he still did it.
It truly depends on the context. Yes this excuse is used to justify some horrible shit. But it also can be a case of a minor evil for a greater good.
To use a real life example, there was once an operation where country A was under threat of war from Country B. "A" sent in special forces to eliminate a general of "B's" army. The operation was successful and the war never happened. However the general was a family man and a patriot. But his death saved potentially countless lives.
Morality is MOSTLY made up of shades of grey. There is definitive good and evil, saints and monsters, that is very much true. But there is a very wide middle.
Context. Context. Context.
While I respect Destiny for being willing to discuss this in a calm and respectful manner, it's clear he doesn't know or care about the underlying morality of copyright and fair use. He unironically believes that movies (and presumably other such intellectual property) should only be protected by copyright for 1 to 5 years, and only for the purpose of allowing the company to recoup the costs; what do you even say to that? Why should I lose the right to control my IP after some arbitrarily short period of time? I don't like that the likes of Disney getting to hang on to IP forever and a day, long after the creator is dead, but it also doesn't make sense to have the opposite extreme. If something is your life's work, like Lord of the Rings, why shouldn't you should have the right to control its distribution and licensing beyond it's initial release?
Idk if I’d call it respectful he was pretty weasily. I guess he wasn’t doing most of it in bad faith necessarily but he was definitely acting shady
Has he always had this position?
Or is has he developed it recently?
He can obviously lie about it.
A dark part of me is thinking "Well Destiny doesn't mind sharing his girlfriend / wife then he naturally thinks that IP's should be shared too."
Copyright is dead in the age of AI generated content. Just like piracy proliferates the theft of IP, AI will proliferate the creation of derivative works and there's nothing going to stop someone from making excellent Mickey Mouse cartoons in their basement with a $1000 computer within the next 10 years. I believe the copyright / IP system needs to be completely rewritten based on protecting author's against fraud, what should be illegal is claiming someone else's content is yours or otherwise misleading others in believing you have permission from the original author to redistribute their content if you do not.
@@TheMaleReiIs he a cuck? If so then I can happily ignore any opinion he ever voices in future lmao
@@daralenoach
Well, he doesn't mind if his woman gets banged out by other men.
I'll just leave it at that.
Destiny thinks that makes him "secure" vs men who don't want to share their women, he calls them "insecure."
Destiny’s takes on the legal system are alarmingly naïve. If your claim is met with a counterclaim and the decision is yours as to whether or not to take it to court against someone with significantly more means than you, that’s tantamount to no solution at all. The time it takes to make court appearances, provide discovery, and meet with lawyers is time that will almost certainly be spent during business hours on workdays, so people attempting to sue bigger streamers will likely have to take time off work, which causes them to have to burn PTO or lose money. Meanwhile the streamer will continue to make money from drama farming the lawsuit. The playing field is not level and these streamers know this.
Yeah. He really didn't seem to understand the idea of being "forced to go to court." It's not that hitting the DMCA button magically transports the claimant to court, but that any pushback or counterclaim leaves no other option than going to court. If Jay made a claim on Hasan, and Hasan countered it (which he absolutely would do), Jay would be left with no other option but to go to court. You might say Jay wouild be *forced*, and considering the two parties in this battle have different means and live in different countries, I think we all know how it would go.
It’s because Destiny’s exposure to legal documentation like this is exclusively in the realm of talking big shit to scare other people on the internet. He has no exposure to the DMCA system.
Sadly, he's no Naive because he's used this very process against people in the past.
He just doesn't care.
Talks like a politician....and you know how great politicians are!!
@@David_the_Psalmist It is actually worse than how you are painting it.
If the person making the claim is seen as NOT having the resources to fight the claim, then the threat of DMCA is meaningless. In essence, DMCA only exists for the people with the means to pay for it.
The only reason the DMCA's, the record labels brought down onto Twitch and its streamer, did anything is because every single person on Twitch knew the record labels had the monetary funds to fight every single streamer for years. Joe Schmo from no-where-vil does not have the backing to get even other Joe Schmo's to back down let-alone anyone that is even moderately funded/backed.
So Joe Schmo DMCA-ing someone like a Hasan is a toothless threat.
Watched this live and the comments were overwhelmingly positive towards Mauler, it was really great to see. Also the coments on the Destiny video are all saying how well Mauler did especially compared to who Destiny normally talks with.
Yup, the convos with Mauler are great
It’s not hard since Destiny is consistently wrong about everything
@@harrydubois6619 I cant stand Destiny. He's so pretentious and autistic (pale, skinny, blue hair, sucks the sack of law and media, morally disgusting but thinks otherwise) and the most punchable face. Ignoring the fact he tried to burn down some rivals house, going so far to get the house plans from the city state. Like he plays GTA and is like 'yeh i can heist'. He also said an 18 year old guy having sex with a 17 year old girl is morally the same as a 18 year old guy having sex with a 5 year old girl, because theyre both 'statutory rape'. He wouldnt say the 5 year old is the worse even when a whole panel of women are disgusted at him.
IDK what Destinys angle is. The blue hair of destiny lmao
@@harrydubois6619 It's partly because Destiny is a borderline NPC
and partly because Destiny's entire scope of opinions and viewpoints can be boiled down to consequentialism
You could murder people and Destiny would be totally fine with it if there was a 0.00001% margin of positive outcome
He has no true morals, so his viewpoints often run up against common sense
@@harrydubois6619 Pretty much - when Steven Bonell the 2nd's orbiters come across material that's far more nuanced and researched, it's as if their entire reality flips upside down until they eventually crash and wake up from the densest hangover they ever had.
Destiny, up to this point, living in the delusion that Sargon did anything wrong in the -whatever her name was- case. That woman straight up admitting, while smiling into a camera, that she only pulled Sargon to court because she hoped for an easy win and that his children would go hungry.
Her name was Akilah Hughes, and that entire Sargon debacle ended so poorly her channel is dead now. Another victory for the Swindon Empire lol
Destiny at one point argues against Adblock. Saying those who supported it do out of convenience. The reason why AdBlock existed in the first place was because internet ads back then were the most invasive things that show up on any site: dangerous even! Sure, I would love to support content creators, but when an Extra Gum banner ad decides it wants to download something into your computer, that would be cause for alarm for anyone. May I remind you Google ain’t some innocent Nancy when it comes to their ad services: some involving phishing scandals. I never used Adblock, but the occasional misclick or the redirects that happens all the time with FANDOM sites, makes me wish I did.
This. Destiny just completely ignores the fact that ads with malware STILL EXIST. Adblock is a security issue, not a convenience one. The fact is that even if Google were to go out of their way to try to ensure there's no malware in the ads they serve, there'll still be some that slips through, it's an inevitability of the internet, something will eventually slip through. I have no reason to take my chances with that, if I want to support a creator, sending them $1 a month on paypal/patreon/whatever is going to be worth more to them than me turning off adblock.
I use an Adbloc with a white list of sites allowed to display ads, trustworthy ones. Everything else is default bloc because of that malicious attack possibility.
I adblocked and paid for UA-cam Res when I could afford it.
I stopped using adblockers for years until the last month or so; when youtube made it explicit that they were “not allowed” whilst doubling up on unskippable ads and trying to shove even more Shorts in my face
Fuuuuck _right off_ with _that_ shit, Google.
In terms of youtube though, what ads have you seen on this site that just instantly download malware?
1:14:18
If nobody knows about it, it's not unethical.
Cool, I'll keep my corpse basement growing. Thanks Destiny.
Literally advocating for elder abuse, lol.
Wow.... The amount of abuse crimes that statement could be applied to. That attitude is horrifying.
So its cool if I keep running my meth lab? Neat, thanks fellas ;)
The thing everyone seems to take for granted is the nature of “exposure to a new audience.” Not every audience is the same, and the audiences that watch react streamers are already conditioned to solely watch new content through the filter of the react streamer, so they’ll likely never touch other creators. Other audiences like us for EFAP are much more willing to check out guests and the media covered in comparison. Not only is it annoying everyone assumes “audiences are the same” but also overlook the fact thousands of people are now conditioned to watch all content through a reacted filter, and that’s entirely from the mismanagement of the reactors not pushing their audiences to be better.
The difference in audiences is pretty damn stark. Simply look at how EFAP chat and hosts reacted to Hassan banning long term subscribers for... basically nothing.
Exactly. React streamers are basically television networks that host all sorts of “shows”. There’s no reason their audience would jump off to check out each one.
In the case of EFAP, it’s all around the same topic, movies/tv/games criticism. And one of the bigger differences to react streamers… actually bringing on a number of creators as guests to have discussions/debates. That, and because EFAP only watches one or MAYBE two videos in a stream, it’s more likely they’ll check out that channel. A typical react streamers watches dozens of videos across hours. The idea that someone is going to check out any one in particular is highly unlikely.
Plus, the Efap hosts all provide content on their own that often differs from "react content". As stated above, this is a good example for differences in audience even among streams that fall under the category of "react content". Here the audience (I assume) mostly comes from one or more of the hosts and already enjoys the mentioned media criticism-type content making an (even if slight) audience grow by exposure more likely than for some other streams. The network tv metaphor is a really good one.
Not to mention sometimes you don’t want the kinda people in one of those streamers audiences in your audience, like If I was say shadiverity I wouldn’t want a mass influx of people who act like Hassan’s chat or if I was hassan im sure he wouldn’t want a massive influx of Ben Shapiro fans polluting his chat and comments
@@Abysalssabsolutely. A channel with healthy engagement tends to develop its own "ecosystem" of comments, in jokes and references as well general tone.
A huge influx of new people can be like introducing an invasive species an ecosystem.
Longplays are borderline, but I'm glad they exist because as a game designer sometimes I need to grab a clip from a game for a presentation and K don't necessarily have that specific moment on a savepoint ready to go.
I don't believe long plays are borderline, not with any game that isn't basically a movie where you have to press the unpause button now and then. Even a lot of walking simulators have room to be transformed by a long play.
@@CptnCardboardwhats a walking simulator
@@chapman2001 You know games like Dear Esther and Everybody's Gone to the Rapture. Games were you only walk around and look at stuff.
@@CptnCardboard I think that playing video games are inherently transformative, because long plays of them can not exist without player input. If someone uploads a 10-hour video of playing a video game, then those 10 hours require their input, otherwise it would be 10 hours of the start screen.
I like them because they help me see uncolored gameplay, and also they're good for sleepin'
Destiny makes a lot of terrible arguments in this, I was ambivalent to him before this but I’ve lost a lot of faith in his ability to make good arguments
Your average politics streamer lol.
All they do is grift.
I've seen him make excellent points on other topics; but this topic is one he's dispassionate about, and therefore hasn't put a lot of thought into.
@@AimlessSavant Unironically I think it's a problem to be only watching politics 24/7. You lose all sense of perspective and reality. It's like how teachers spend their entire day around children, and then start to behave like them.
Politics is not a replacement for real life perspective.
He's a cuck. What else do you expect.
"Destiny makes a lot of terrible arguments."
Could have left it at that.
How can Destiny even utter the word "principle" when he clearly doesn't hold any? He seems to think that if laws or regulations don't strictly prevent him from doing something that it can't be immoral. How depressing. Did his parents instill nothing in him at all?
Well he also holds that illegal things can still be moral like he pointed out weed, so I guess he just doesn’t believe legal things can be immoral which might be even worse
At 53:45, Destiny's argument is dumb. You don't have to go to court if you don't want to? So, why fill out the DMCA request? It has no teeth... unless you are willing to go to court.
Destiny's refusal to acknowledge that is really damaging to his argument.
I was a little annoyed that no one pressed that point, but they kinda got around to it with the "I'll give $10k to bury the sod who doesn't fear a DCMA notice". I think there's just a massive difference between the thinking of the average person/small creator and these 4 who easily can pursue the matter in court if they would like. And for those who say "no one would risk the negative publicity of screwing the little guy just because they are little".... may I suggest we remember the story of Citibike Karen?
For every real-life story we have of David slaying Goliath in the court of public opinion, there are thousands and more unknown Davids who just get squashed without consequence. It is naive to think otherwise.
Destiny’s argument about Copyright violations based on the feelings of the claimant is also a bad argument. It’s the “old lady being fine with being up charged” argument. Someone’s lack of knowledge and vulnerability doesn’t retroactively justify the theft.
It reminded me of the infamous "they have insurance, right?" argument for why people should be able to burn down businesses. The thought is that the process makes everyone whole in the end even though most of the time insurance will try to weasel out of it and the premiums will go up regardless. The end result is that the businesses no longer exist.
I think Sitch even referenced how toothless the DMCA tools are in the react arc. "I just counter claim the DMCA. Its up to them to take me to court."
What's the point of putting a time stamp? It is not as if he wasn't making bad arguments the whole video 😂
@@vitorschein8073 haha. Good point.
So is Destiny's argument stealing is ok because if you care about that you can call the police? He seems to not care at all about the principle of it or what it might lead to if anybody can just get away with it. Imagine a 100 Jinx like channels....
Funny stance for him to hold, considering he helped to get Sargon's second channel nuked, many years ago now.
His argument is that react content probably isn't bad if it doesnt negatively affect anyone and the people having their content reacted to doesnt care...
It felt uncomfortably close to "it's okay to steal somebody's stuff do long as they don't notice it's missing"
To DMCA somebody you'd have to know it was going on, but the person taking advantage of your content in a stream is financially benefiting from your content *in real time*
It's not like a video that generates income over a period of time, any action you can take is going to be *after* the event.
@@Dasqal No negative effect? Do you think ppl are less ot more likely to watch a video if they have already watched it in it's entirety with their favourite cornflakes eating streamer? I think less and like Mauler said, it is impossibe to prove a potentially lost view so the OG creator can't even show how much he/she lost. Don't forget the negative effect that this will just encourage more lazy react streamers.
@@MrBforBallz I agree they are probably less likely to watch it, but most likely they wouldn't watch it to begin with. So it's probably a very slight harm on that part. Which is probably counteracted by the slight number of people that will actually end up becoming new subscribers.
And if it's a lazy react or a tryhard breakdown analysis of a video it would do just as much potential harm to the OG creator right? So it doesn't really matter if it's lazy or not.
But in the end, if the OG creator doesn't even care then why should we.
Holy shit, perfect timing since I just came from a “Rev Says Desu” video where he played a short clip from EFAP’s coverage of “Hasan Piker: Man of Steal”
😂
Oh which video? I wanna see it
@@esso8016 “WOAH THATS CRAZY”
Destiny mentioned it briefly, but I think there is a pretty big, creative difference between streaming gameplay and streaming yourself watching videos. Much like how there is a big difference between playing games and watching tv/movies. I'd argue that the act of playing a game itself is transformative, to a degree. You can play in a unique way, do specific challenges, speed runs glitches etc. All without any commentary. There's a youtuber named DESK who post fighting game combo videos without any commentary and it's very transformative.
There's not many creative ways to watch a video/show/movie without commentary. In fact commentary seems like the bear minimum necessary to make watching/reacting to videos transformative in the first place. You could even just do text based commentary, but there's no way that I'm aware of to simply watch content and make it transformative without some sort of commentary.
Let's plays "can" be fair use. Like you said they 'can' add unique game play, 'can' do specific challenge runs etc. But by default a let's play, just playing a game and recording is not necessarily transformative. But onn reaction content yeah, commentary really is the bare minimum, in some cases, arguably even below the minimum if the commentary isn't substantial.
One example I'm genuinely kindve suprised about is when people make like a "GOW Ragnarok all cutscenes" video. Cause there isn't even anything you can theoretically do to that to be transformative when there's no commentary.
@@Matt-dn5jc I’d agree that most let’s plays aren’t really “transformative”. People exaggerate how much “your choices” really affects a game. Oh wow, you shot guy #2 first instead of guy #1, that’s _so_ different! /s. It’s moreso the person’s reaction/personality than actual in-game decisions, which is what people actually watch for. That said, whether it’s transformative or not, I don’t think it matters. Because you’re not getting the full experience. The fun of a game is playing it, which you can’t get through watching a video. Even moreso with multiplayer games that have no end. The exception are story-based games, where the fun isn’t learning the mechanics and applying them, but on the first-time playthrough watching the story unfold. Too vague to really get in writing, but those would be hurt the most. At the same time… I’m not sure that’s even happening. Most story-based/visual novel games are niche, and not exciting enough to most let’s players/streamers or their audiences to both with. And the ones that are interested, are probably watching just to get an idea of the game before buying, rather than spoiling it. Because they are the audience that would want to play it. And the bigger story-focused games that do get people’s attention… are likely AAA games with a lot of marketing and hype anyway, so people were already on board.
@@mrshmuga9 Almost completely agree here. Just wanted to clarify the transformative bit, but you're right. Unlike youtubers, I think especially with big AAA companies, it would be almost trivial to DMCA lets plays, but unlike react content they make for a very good form of advertisement.
@@mrshmuga9Something being interactive inherently makes videos of it transformative, since its never going to be the same watching something and playing something.
Imagine waking up to find out that the video you spent a month making was stolen in it's entirety by someone who has more money and fame than you will in your entire life, and they used it to babysit their audience while they were shitting.
Imagine you’re a tiny fledgling content creator that NEEDS, not only Subscribers, but also Minimum Watch Hours to get or stay Monetized hearing much Larger UA-camrs say,
“I don’t care. Does’t affect me. I’m doing juuuuust Fine!”
Talk about Clueless and Out of Touch! 😤
Especially when it’s a champagne socialist that advocates for the working class by saying “eat the rich” in his multi million dollar mansion as his mother cooks dinner for him, because he let her stay with him to be his house keeper so he wouldn’t have to pay a house keeper.
@@mitchjr77"but dude, that's what dmca system is for"
Destiny doesn’t have any real positions. Just whatever is at hand to help win a debate or weasel out of something he’s said prior.
Destiny always has to appeal to law because he either has no morality or lacks a clear understanding of what morality even is. It’s so telling
Good one conservatard 👌 very based
Doesn't help he has a punchable personality. I don't know how to explain it any better than that.
Well, I think he associates law with morality.
Which can be a *very* dangerous concept.
@@TheMaleReiWell accept when the law says something he dislikes. Then he understands the difference immediately.
@Awaken_To_0
Very, very true.
It is a very lazy position.
In the same vein as - "When I am in power, I am just fine with ABC and XYZ. When I'm not in power, well that ABC and XYZ needs controls and restrictions et . Which I'll negate once I'm back in power."
22:38 is destiny that dense? The problem isn’t creating harm to other creators, the problem is theft of content vs transforming it into new content.
I disagree. I think the harm it causes to the entire creator ecosystem is a massive element. If there was theft but no harm, i honestly wouldn’t care much. But there is, massively.
The answer is always yes to that question.
It was a big point that had been argued pretty fervently on Destiny's stream directly before this conversation.
@@Boss24601for me the problem with that is there's no logical way for it to be consistently purely beneficial in reality, so even if that were to somehow happen you'd want to be careful for when it inevitably crashes and burns. By that point it will be so ingrained into creator culture that they'll just keep doing it despite the harm.
If a guy was constantly attempting to murder someone but through some comedy movie antics happened to keep making that person's life better, I'd still tell that guy to stop cause once he doesn't accidentally benefit them that person's dead.
@@calumbarry1829 agreed. I am talking about a cartoon world though where he would never be able to murder that person ever. I would say playing a round of russian roulette, even if the bullet is never fired, is still harm because it could have been fired. In my world I’m saying I wouldn’t have an issue with it if it was a 0% chance of causing harm. Obviously that isn’t the case. Reacting does do harm and thats what I care about
"Debates are homosexual."
-Bilbo Baggins
This video is proof that the Longman's tendrils have an impressively expansive reach.
And that he's so good at reacting, even to videos he's seen many times, to elicit ooinions and generate conversation.
I didn't expect to see Aba, Muta, and Mauler ever interacting with eachother. Im not complaining though, cause I like them all.
Same
What about Destiny? :^)
@docterhalo Ehh... We've seen Destiny twice on EFAP before. Also I just don't really care about him all that much.
Same
I feel like there's been a lot of crossovers we as viewers have not expected. Watched the LWC show and when 1/4 Black Garrett left, did not expect to find him with Nerdrotic of all people. Lots more crossovers did not think like Think Before You Sleep going on Friday Night Tights. The universe is converging.
saw this live and was glued to the screen the whole time, because I knew... if anyone could convince Destiny of anything, it's MauLer
Definitely
Could Mauler convince Destiny to stop being a (c)uck?
@@harrydubois6619impossible
@@harrydubois6619 nah destiny is only like that cause he likes to rebel against conservatives, thats all his takes, its well if the conservatives are against it, ill be for it, until he gets back stabbed by his allies and then has to walk in shame back to the conservative position...
@@117Ender Not like getting backstabbed by other socialists should be a surprising thing to a socialist.
Interesting how destinity's position seem to be: "depending on my income, principles may vary". Sounds a bit like Seth Rogan when he said he didn't care the 15 times his car got broken into, to minimize criminality in LA. Guess what? Not everyone can afford their stuff been stolen...
That’s a consequence of the relativism and absorbing too much Marxist ideals. They believe you lose or gain moral value depending on how much money you have.
Destiny keeps going back to the argument: "Why are people mad when it doesn't affect them negatively?"
Yea, Mr. Lincoln. Why do you care so much about slavery? It doesn't affect you negatively. Just keep the slaves. Not your problem.
Nazis during the Holocaust “but how does this affect you personally?”
An unconscious woman having a greasy, sweaty, Dude w/Cheeto-stained underwear starts undressing her…..
*”WHY ARE YOU MAD?!? This is not Negatively affecting YOU! Even SHE isn’t complaining! JEEEZ!!!”*
-Destiny Logic
The live -Hassan- chair reaction shade in the thumbnail lmao
Hassan, XQC, and Pokimane are the worst offender of lazy react streamers
It's a shame Hassan isn't smarter. He could've doubled down and made a Chair React channel, and probably would've made bank off of it. If you're going to become an internet villain, might as well become a funny one.
Hasan is my favorite capitalist
@@harrydubois6619 Hasan's not even that good of a capitalist. He has terrible spending habits and does nothing but fail upwards.
Knowing that posting the actual clip of the reaction is a no go but the stream where that 'reaction' happened is perfectly justified until someone eventually DMCAs you for copyright infringement has to be dumbest thing I've ever heard, said as if it is not the most crippling indictment of Steamer React shenanigans. It's between that and 'Chat is transformative' said with a straight face
An example of an incredibly popular youtube channel DMCAing a goon. Kurzgezat btfoed XQC. It was on his clips channel. Not the stream. Because who is scrolling through Twitch streams to catch goblins non-transformatively streaming their content.
Yeah that reads pretty clearly to me as where he knows he can get away with it. And with the way he talks about it very dispassionately it's pretty clear he's just doing this cause it benefits him and it's easy, I don't think he believes it's wrong but does it anyway but at a certain point you don't get to just coast off of not giving something much thought. Which goes to Aba's point that you're just making the "content creators are lazy" arguement worse.
The thing is a lot of the outrage online is about very specific content creators with specific behavior. It's not about the greater reaction sub genre
👍🏾
@@KamiAnimeS1you cleaning the toilet
@@SFTaYZa lol
Streamers like to attack a strawman of their critics rather than address the specific criticisms. Instead of owning up to their bad behavior, they just say stuff like "oh yeah well what about when Y person does X??"
@CptnCardboard which is why I pretty much clocked out of this video because the Mauler and Destiny segment wanted to have a conversation people today weren't having given the controversy
Destiny has the absolute worst moral takes.
That’s because he has no morals at all, lol.
@@mrshmuga9 I think he does, he’s just very bad at drawing lines between good and evil because he relies very heavily on harm.
@@mrshmuga9Socialismtisms
I loved how Destiny was quite more timid in his take as soon as Mauler arrived. It was great to see Mauler being able to handle himself against Destiny considering how well Destiny debates. It was also good to see it not dissolve in to a screaming match and that there was friendliness in the discussion. There was a smug air to Destiny in his take before this happened. Mauler is a class act, just another great display of how constructive Mauler and the EFAP crew are.
destiny's entire shtick is to be hyperbolic to farm engagement until someone who can actually argue shows up, then has a more nuanced discussion. most times someone good enough at arguing never shows up so all you hear is the hyperbolic take.
The real issue is the fact that Destiny is not a good debater. He has managed to fool a huge group on the internet into believing that he is. This episode shows for a brief and shining moment just how bad of a debater he really is. The key is that he normally cherry-picks his opponents to such an extreme degree that he is almost always guaranteed victory by default, because he debates people that either have no experience or are just straight up stupid extremists. I've been saying this for years now. Go back and look at some of his debates from when he first started getting truly popular and look at some of his benchmarks. You will notice that most the people he's going up against are pathetically unprepared to deal with an actual argument. Most people that Destiny goes up against are barely more cognizant than someone like Patrick Willems or Just Write.
@@mr.m2914 Hard disagree. Destiny is a phenomenal debater but he isn't infallible. If you go in to a debate with Destiny thinking he's going to be bad at it, then I don't think such a person has prepared themselves for a debate with Destiny enough to be effective. I'm not entirely sure where you got the idea that Destiny cherry-picks his opponents, he debates people who want to debate him, be it lesser known people or more known people. He can certainly lose debates, but to deny his ability to debate is a bad starting point considering all the thought leaders he's debated against and came out on top against.
Destiny has trouble differentiating himself from others. He always starts with “everyone” or “anyone,” you know, all encompassing general statements, then when you press him on it it always inevitably drops down to just him who feels that way or thinks that thing. It annoys me he always presumes his opinions and beliefs are the general consensus.
This is pretty simple.
If it replaces the need to watch the original, it is stealing.
A lets play, a moview review, a response with clips, do not replace the original
Asmon going "oh wow" or saying some platitude while pausing every so often. Or hassan eating and going potty while other peoples vids are playing is stealing
Didn't Destiny strike Sargon's 2nd channel because he uploaded clips from destiny's debate with Jontron?
I find it weird how fixated this guy is on finding a "principle reason". Why cant people take issue with "react" content on the basis of all the arguments against it? Why does he feel the need to boil it down to just 1 reason?
To disregard and downplay the severity of react content
@@AimlessSavant thats a more than probable explanation
It’s funny he’s so obsessed with the “principle reason” when he can’t even understand that the objection is one of principles. Most people feel it’s the principle of stealing someone else’s work to transparently benefit yourself
I love how whenever the topic comes up Destiny's position on if people should care about DMCA he seems to say "well if no one is mad, why should you care about if its ethical or not"
Easier to ask forgiveness than permission isn't it Hasan Jr. ?
When someone cheats in an online game, their excuse is usually that other people’s fun is not their responsibility and that they bought their copy to have fun. When someone sees a cheater, the kneejerk reaction is usually “They are ruining it for everyone.” I think this shows the instinctual understanding of the implicit agreement that allows online games to exist. That it only exists for you as long as others are playing. Their fun IS your responsibility. To a reasonable extent.
Try playing battlefront now for an example
Most people subscribe to the Golden Rule as a principle and rightness and wrongness we believe tend to predicate on this principle. We more or less move along as a society with the notion that we should act as we want to be treated. Cheaters would not cheat if everyone was cheating as part of the cheating process is taking unfair advantage of people of people who are playing fair as a strategy to win. And you really don't need laws for the ethics and rules of the Golden Rule, people with empathy fundamentally understand harming other people is wrong because they wouldn't want other people to harm them the same way in turn.
Destiny’s view on streamers is so narrow, especially gaming streamers. I watch gaming streamers who take hours off line making emojis, overlays, transitions, etc. to add to the entertainment value to their stream! Not every streamer wakes up 5 minutes before the stream!
Not just gaming, but the whole conversation about the JFK conspiracy video. If you have nothing to say, and you know nothing about the topic, and you can't imagine you would have anything to add to the video,... why would you watch it on stream? "gotta have something" is a pathetic excuse.
Shocker. A guy who shares his wife is fine with sharing his videos.
Except he’s not sharing, he’s the one taking them
How anyone can have any amount of respect for a cuck is beyond me
Lol it’s funny you think he has a say in the matter.
Oh yeah I remember when it came out in the leaks that Nintendo was hiring Private eyes and crap to go after people.
They equipped Lakitu with sniper rifles. ☁️ Beware of the clouds.
As someone who has uploaded Gameplay Without Commentary, I actually used to put a lot of effort into characterizing myself with gameplay, such as controlled camera angles to focus in on things, selective movement of a character to express certain feelings, and of course, my style of playing the game compared to someone else. I wouldn't consider it necessarily to be a violation of copyright just because I didn't talk. I was faced with the option of including voice recording that would be extremely low quality, borderline painful to listen to, or to not include voice recording at all, and instead focus on expressing myself through the gameplay instead.
Since my earlier uploads, I have managed to acquire a microphone that is, while not professional quality, good enough that I can include my voice without the gratingly low quality of a pair of $15 auxiliary earbuds, but even then, on the basic principle of the matter, I would argue that games are an inherently transformative medium by the nature of the fact that they must be player by a person, and no one plays the same game in exactly the same way. The only gray area I can even see for Long Plays not being acceptable are with games that have virtually no interactive elements, such as Walking Simulators or Visual Novels, but even then, I'm not confident I can just write them off as a whole.
Edit: Also, I'll stop running adblock when ads stop being so obnoxious and obtrusive. I've bought merch, I've donated to content creators directly, I've even used discount codes for sponsors, but I'm not gonna wait for two loud, 15-second, unskippable ads to play every 5 minutes on a 4-hour podcast. I'm happy paying content creators directly, and buying a product they provide, but I'm not happy with the slimy, aggressive methods corporations are now using to push as many ads in front of my face as possible.
*cough* *cough* UA-cam premium. Your viewership would be more valuable to the youtuber and take away a bit of the power advertisers has over the site.
And before anyone says anything. First if you want to support a UA-cam creator. Undermining the platform they are on isn't the solution unless you are willing to create a perfect replacement and able to covert all their viewers to this new site. And allow them to grow like they could on UA-cam
So until that day come we may as well try to do stuff that improves UA-cam as a site. For example their dependency on advertisers mean that creative freedom can be stifled when getting demonetized and then getting punish in the algorithm.
If the majority of profits come from the viewers themselves instead of advertisers. Then the site doesn't have to appease advertisers as much and instead focus on making sure people discover content that keep them on the site. Instead of trying to push safer content on people who may not even like it. Or at the very least hide the more risky content.
And who doesn't their risky content?
TL:DR YT premium is a decent way to support a creator in more ways then one.
@@RickyGong-cc3sc okay Susan
@@MJelly-yj8kp fuck they found me.
@@RickyGong-cc3sc"if you think the food is bad make your own" sounding mf
not knowing anything about destiny, holy shit he doesnt sound sharp, it feels like he ignored everything by saying "its not a problem so just stop talking about it" alongside "well its easy to stop" not realizing that it NEEDS someone to talk about it to make it stop.
It feels like the kind of discussion where a millionaire just tells poor people to pay bribes if they have a problem, like yeah thats the solution.
Interesting to see destiny talk to Mauler about this because I've had so many destiny clips force their way onto my recommendations, and almost all of them are just him sitting there doing nothing while a video plays.
Muta on EFAP? Holy shit this is great! I'd love to see him on more.
Actually this wasn't recorded as an EFAP episode. It was recorded while Destiny was streaming and it was in Destiny's discord call. Obviously Mauler uploaded it as an EFAP mini, which makes me wonder what an EFAP even is anymore lol. But yeah, I'd like to see Muta on EFAP.
@@Cany0 EFAP Mini just seems like "whatever the fuck MauLer was doing on stream that seemed interesting". I think it would've made more sense for this to be an expanded universe but then again it doesn't seem important enough for that.
@@Mr_MonolithAn EFAP mini, in my opinion, is something that is recorded but can't be an actual EFAP episode. This example is maybe because only Mauler is on, and it's probably because either he took interest or was invited on. And stuff like shows.
Sadly I don’t think media discussion is Muta’s thing
Destiny really tried to not engage with any points made on this bad show, just getting free reacts with "maybes" "i dont know"s and "sure" whenever deeper point would be made about how this might be a one way advantageous street for him and his 0.1% ilk.
“If react content is so harmful, how come we don’t have a legion of UA-camrs coming out and begging to not be reacted to?”
“If sexual assault is so awful, how come over half of all SA cases go unreported to the police?”
did you seriously equate react content to sexual assault?
@@MJelly-yj8kpNo, just the principle behind it. Fucking hell, people on the internet are REALLY shit at understanding analogies.
@@yanribeiro7108 your analogy is shit though. SA cases go unreported because the victims are mentally scarred from SA and can't go to the police out of fear. I really fail to see how react content makers instill similar fear in youtubers
@@MJelly-yj8kp "My" analogy? I don't remember being the one who made it.
If your argument is that victims of SA are too scarred (or afraid) of reporting, then good job, you've proved it is extremely similar to DMCA, since the biggest fear people have with it, is being taken to court, and having to face the opposition's WAY more qualified team. They're different types of fear, but the analogy absolutely stands, since the entire point of it, is that not reporting something does not mean it isn't a massive issue.
@@yanribeiro7108 or maybe, get this, they don't report it cuz they don't know it happened? SA is done to a person, content theft is done to person's content. You can't possibly know who and how many stole your content to do a "reaction" when you post it to the internet. Something tells me Jay wouldn't have made that video and this drama wouldn't have started if a streamer with much less subs than --Chair-- Hassan had done it. I agree with the point that "no reports != no issue", I don't agree with this particular analogy, since it tactlessly uses SA
Okay, what the fuck is that ultraretarded take on adblocks?
Wasn't expecting Muta to be on Efap.
Yup and it’s great
@@KamiAnimeS1 well to be fair, this is just a discussion from destiny's stream, and just ppl who know each other talking to each other, muta might be a guest on future efaps
@@117Ender hopefully 🤞
Still hoping for that Nux episode also.
Yeah it was nice to emulator man on the show.
Destiny REALLY feels like he's deflecting as hard as he can with all the "but why are people mad NOW" and "theyre just mad that the streamers are making tons of money and the original creators don't" comments
I love when hasan and destiny types straight up admit that they have no sense of inherent morality and it’s just about if they’ll be punished or not
"Inherent morality" isn't a thing
@@Zach0451 yeah it is babies are demonstrated to have some inherent sense of morality. Humans at some level genetically have atleast some amount of a moral compass
@@Abysalss No they don't
@@Zach0451 yeah they do they’ve done multiple studies demonstrating such
@@Zach0451
You’re telling me it isn’t intrinsic to not want to murder people?
Says a lot that destiny cant stop playing a game to have a conversation....
People can spot leech/parasitic behavior very easily.
This is the reason for the broad outrage.
People understand that this type of behavior contributes to the degredation of content, culture and audience.
People understand that streamers have a very different payment model, where exposure is much more important than views.
Hasan wants high numbers on his monthly plan, and JayExci wants high number of views on something specific he might have worked months on.
Twitch streamers will never understand this, and is to be considered toxic to everyone else.
“Paid with exposure” is the same logic that justifies “tipped employees get a much lower minimum wage”
You’re given the opportunity to make more money, but then that’s treated as relieving the person who’s actually working with you of the responsibility to actually pay you for the work they’re doing for you
That’s fucked
Wasn't expecting to see a video with Mauler and Aba...
Yup I was glued to the screen
you need a life🤣
Destiny complaining about people stealing his arguments is hilarious. Dudes never had an original take in his life.
He can only deconstruct, he doesn't have substantive arguments.
Even broken clocks are correct twice a day.
This was not Destiny's time.
Listening to him sounds like what speedrunning bad takes is like when done by a professional.
I don’t normally watch destiny but I genuinely don’t understand his position
@@jacksonperez5615 I genuinely don't think he understands his position.
@@jacksonperez5615
Destiny seems to believe that the audiences that streamers have is locked in place on those streamers, and that even if streamers didn’t do lazy react content, their audience would still watch and those views would not be disseminated out into the larger internet ecosystem.
He’s wrong, but it’s the closest I can find to a coherent argument. If streamers didn’t need to react to videos to maintain their audience, why are they reacting anyways? Why not just steam a blank wall?
Destiny is the broken clock that for SOME REASON is only correct ONCE a Day… 🤷♂️
Remember that Destiny copywrite stuck Sargon of Akkad and killed one of his channels over a petty critique video.
Destiny sounded like he was absolutely multitasking most the time...kind of annoying. His attention was split and his responses were often just hollow.
Destiny is utterly and ridiculously wrong about adblock, I've tried using the internet without adblockers and it is unbearable. Pop up and pop out videos that are unstoppable, unclosable, unmutable. Full page banners that the browser will jump to while trying to read an article completely making you loose where you were. etc etc etc. It's so bad that whenever I tried it I usually ended up closing the browser out of anger and not even caring about the content I tried to view.
If I like a page I'll whitelist it and see if the ads on it are intrusive or acceptable, if it is bearable it will remain whitelisted indefinitely. So if you want to make it on ad revenue don't allow intrusive ads. And then I didn't even mention the utterly disgusting stomach churning ones. I don't even think those ads serve any purpose. No sane person would buy a skin care product based on a vomit inducing image.
Oh geez. I haven’t seen the gross skincare ads. I guess I’m just lucky.
bill hicks has a good quote about advertising. people who bitch about adblock should follow his advice.
Pre-watch predictions:
1. Given how Destiny typically argues his points and how he sometimes views objectivity, he will most likely backtrack on points in this discussion or in the future
2. Destiny's arguments will mostly bordeline an argument of benefits rather than morality, bordering consequentalism or utilitarianism, once again because he doesn't believe in objective morality but falls to arbitrary standards.
Thoughts:
1. He's already said it 😂. This dude is so predictable with his arguments. "It's okay if it's in front of a large audience." You have no indication if anyone will actually care about the channels being stolen from. Let's say you get even 1% of the conversion rate which is unlikely as hell, you have no reason to assume that the person actually benefits from that. You don't know how the large audience will respond to it, etc. etc.
2. Makes an argument to effort and talent. I'm gonna use an incredibly simple example. Football and the World Cup. The women earn a higher share of their earnings than the men despite the men arguably (most definitely) putting in a greater effort and drawing a larger prize pool and audience. That does not seem fair inherently, no? If he'd say no, I'm curious as to why?
3. Disagree on the "no one will watch (insert video) if they've seen my reaction." That presupposes that you've thoroughly went through the entire video, which most creators WILL NOT. Even then, you have no idea if a person would like to go through a video without the lens you are, what if they have a different perspective than you do. That's a naive take.
4. Piracy is a dicy issue. In the past 2 years, I've only pirated 3 movies and 5 episode of TV simply because I knew they would be bad. However, I can understand that most people won't even do that little. Granted, I agree with Mauler's brand of piracy, simply because things are difficult to access. The amount of research I have to do that's blocked by paywalls forcing me to change objectives and sources. However, I acknowledge that creators like Mauler can't inherently avoid that because they would most likely go into debt.
5. DMCA immediately is a bad move, even if as a precautionary method. You don't want to start to bring legality into everything. Cause at bare minimum, you'll have a million DMCA's everyday. There's no chance UA-cam doesn't use that to hurt to hurt the creators. That's just playing with UA-cam's extent of "mercy" at that point.
6. On the last point, let's use some huge hypotheticals:
Let's say Mr. Beast randomly decided to be a dick and steal Bob's content. In what universe does Bob try to sue who is in theory, the single richest creator on the platform. He has no real monetary challenge to back that legal recourse. He can't do that, so he just shuts his trap and deals with it. How is that justifiable?
7. Thank you Mauler for immediately turning down his bs race analogy.
8. On the point on cross recommendations, anecdotal but that extra recommendations for a channel being reacted to like a solid 85% of the time happens for me with a channel that either has subs or view counts in the bare minimum 300k + range
9. I'm sorry, how is watching a video with no input acceptable as a CONTENT CREATOR/REACTOR. That is literally your job. And no just playing someone else's video or games, doesn't count, because you're arguably creating nothing new, with virtually insignificant changes. That only changes if you create a completely unpredictable experience. Random example: Pewdiepie's Last of Us 2 playthrough is entertainment for me because I both like his content in general and I liked how he approached the game and its story. On the other hand, I'd never personally watch one of those full game cutscene videos because the game in and of itself is poorly written and not nearly as entertaining by itself.
Similarly, I know many people watched playthroughs of Spider-Man PS4 in 2018 and still bought the game so they could enjoy the story and gameplay on their own terms.
See how something as simple as another person's input changes an approach to a game.
10.
"How is that justifiable?"
Didn't you hear his answer to this? Just crowdfund it man. He'll even give you 10k. XD
@@masterlinktm First of all you're ignoring the idea of reputation. What if people just don't believe you or don't find your claim valid? Plus we're acting like any reasonably huge UA-camr or Twitch streamer wouldn't financially outclass any crowdfunding efforts. People can only be generous to a certain extent.
@@tajanisc Hrmmm...it seems my XD was mistaken as me laughing at you/your idea. Which is fair, it was not clear. My XD was targeted at what Destiny was saying. I agree with you.
I was especially laughing at the idea that 10k would mean anything in the face of actual litigation costs as well. XD That is like what, a day's worth of funding? I know some courts charge like 20-50k just to get cases heard. XD
@@masterlinktm Ah no worries man. It's utterly ridiculous and the fact he just casually throws that out like it's normal. I'm almost certain he'd point out (if he hasn't already) that legal cases require way more funds than any single crowdfund would allow and imagine everyone taking everyone else to court. At that point, UA-cam themselves might just ban use of other creators content, which would be a gross misstep and overcorrection. It would solve the problem of stealing content but completely destroy any channel that needs to reference anything ever. But yes Destiny says we should crowdfund. Absolute genius that blue hair gives him.
Destiny essentially arguing that people will only be good if they're forced to is a really good argument that we should just be a Christian theocracy
Based and Jesus-pilled
Culture is downstream from law.
@@reactiondavant-garde3391 Law is down stream from culture. Modern day cities are proof. Tons of laws being broken but no culture to enforce them.
America is falling, and I wish I was joking
@@reactiondavant-garde3391incorrect. Laws are generally based on shared morals, which are based on a shared culture. If we really didn't think it was bad to steal as a culture, why have laws against theft?
See progressives running certain cities, where they've subverted themselves into thinking that theft is only bad when a poor person steals from another poor person or until you steal _"enough"_ . Otherwise, you're not getting charged. Funnily enough, progressives think culture is downstream from law, hence they create such ridiculous ones to not punish criminals.
1) Any time-delay is too long
2) Linking to source should be mandatory
3) Payment would set a bad and unenforceable precedent.
Jesus Christ, Destiny has no concept of moral values.
Every time he's asked about principles it's like watching Mr Burns explain the cost benefits of grinding puppies.
I've managed to get to 1:08:47 and at this point I genuinely think he's a sociopath. He has no concept of personal values, just "what can I get out of this"
So just in case people didn't figure this out. Mauler, in his pure unintended genius about the stigma of DMCAing other youtubers, had multiple youtubers talk about completely different experiences on how dumb it is to DMCA and suffer DMCA attacks from the 3rd parties trying to "clarify" DMCA's in general.
So Destiny doesn't understand just the moral argument of stealing someone's hard work, and also tries using the "paid in exposure" argument as a good thing? Christ, he's kind of a clown.
And to add to the mention of games. Obviously most Let's Plays or even Longplays are fine, as 99.9% of video games have some form of replayability. Even with very linear games, so long as the gameplay itself is decent, you can always go back to it. Such videos can even help sales as seeing the game in action can give a better impression than a heavily edited and scripted review video.
The problem arises with games that are primarily story-driven. The thing is, that's a decision made by the creators. Just at a baseline, a story-driven game with little replay value is already harmed due to the fact that someone is less likely to shell out the price for a game they might only play the once, and will likely be considerably shorter than any other game. It's a fact that has to be considered before development.
It’s so weird that socialist/socdem streamers seem so foreign to the concept that it’s immoral for a multi millionaire to benefit from someone else’s labor while providing nothing themselves. I thought that kinda thing was what they’re most against
Does Mauler have a soft spot for Destiny? I don't understand how he came to the conclusion that he and Destiny agree for the most part. ??? Is that his way of saying he doesn't want to argue about it with him anymore? Destiny defended stealing content the entire time!
Save me, Rags!
real
I'm very annoyed whenever I get a UA-cam short rec9mmendednto me that consists of a person with a deadpan look on their face and another person's video in the background.
Sometimes they point at the space above their head.
53:03 This whole segment made me so mad. "If the other party counterclaims you, you don't HAVE to go to court." OK, so what happens if you don't? That means you drop the DMCA, doesn't it? So what's the fucking point of the DMCA, if it only works when you can take people to court? At that point, it just becomes a game of chicken to see who has the money to sue the other person.
And a lot of people do not. It seems that he just doesn't understand that for some people it's not about whether they want to go to court, it's about whether they CAN. For people living paycheck to paycheck, going to court is just not an option. If it fails, you're not just losing some money, you are going to be losing your car, your house, or getting into debt you may never recover from and completely fuck up your life.
Even if most big content creators are not going to take the risk, the point is they can if they want to. Plus not everyone is going to be thinking the same way about this. There are going to be assholes who think they are in the right stealing your content. Or do it for the drama and the views. Or just have money to throw around and don't give a shit. There is always a chance that someone counterclaims you. And most small content creators can never afford to even take that chance, because the consequences of that are just too big.
He makes it sound like the threat of the DMCA itself is supposed to be enough of a deterrent, but deterrent only works if you actually have something to back it up. This only works for large creators suing small creators or large creators suing each other. If you can't go to court and the other person know this, then you're fucked.
1:00:30 So for small content creators the way to survive the court proceedings (not even succeed with the claim, just survive the court and don't destroy your life) is to HOPE their tweet goes viral, someone notices them and gives them money? What if that doesn't work? What if he doesn't read their tweet? Or they don't tweet at all? And he thinks this is a good system?!
Also, being black and trans makes it more likely to get noticed and get money?? So now the DMCA's likelihood of succeeding is based on your race and gender?! What a fucking fantastic system!
Destiny provided the most weasel arguments, a string of "whataboutisms" and "well it's not a problem for me"
"Reaction videos are homosexual."
-Bilbo Baggins
Destiny coming out pro exploitation of labor at 1:08:30 was not something I expected
Going to be interesting to see Destiny crash and burn while trying to defend this.
It's his *destiny*
He's not going to crash and burn over thos, nor should he.
That being said, brace yourself for when he backtracks later down the line and pretends he never took this position and always believed it was unethical.
@@uh-ohspaghettio7826 yeah, “crash and burn” is hyperbolic. I’m mostly just interested to see how he’s going to try to rationalize it, and since the topic is a form of theft, I’m probably not going to be impressed with what he puts out.
Has he ever crashed and burned? Everything i've seen him he utterly crushes his debate opponent
@@djdeadbeat4380 I getcha. Yeah, I agree.
Destiny is so annoying, the issue is just that work is being stolen, the awful react streamers are adding very little and even leaving the stream while all the work is being put up with no attempt to transform the content.
That is immoral, obviously so, it's nothing to do with exposure, money or the people involved. If someone has stolen your work, it's immoral.
Destiny talks just like a politician, double speak and running in circles. They tried this(with ads) about 10 years ago when YouTuubers were making good money then YT itself took a big cut out of the content creators pocket. So the content creators complained and YT put more ads, took an even bigger chunk and screwed the content creators again by not keeping their promise to give them a bigger chunk. And it repeated with even MORE ads then people started using ad blockers to actually watch the people they wanted to instead of dealing with some annoying ad every 7 min. If YT creators push for this removal of the ad blockers all you will get is pissed off subscribers, content creators only making pennies more and YT walking away again to the bank. DON'T DO IT!!!!
Adblock is objectively a moral good. Why can't people who hate ads opt out of watching them? The only time ads make money is when people click on them, and I won't ever do that under any circumstance. So forcing me in front of an ad only wastes my time, and server resources.
Ad Block is a good anti-virus tool has well since ads are the number 1 reason someone gets a virus onto their computer. Also with Corpos selling your data for ads I say it's fair game to use an ad blocker.
34:47 That explains why Mauly's not a grown up. He's aware of his Dark souls skills and would never risk driving. 😔
Jesus Christ this is hard to listen to.
Streaming video game content is absolutely *not* zero effort. For some games, like Little Hope, it will be minimal effort, but the League of Legends example is ridiculous. Most players are casuals, and most casual players play magbe 3-5 champs in a roster of hundreds. Watching gameplay (of unowned or owned champions, good or bad) is a compeltely different experience for that player, even if *nothing* is said. The content is transformed. This is true for 99% of games. The only games that need to be concerned about their content being "reuploaded" by longplays are games that are basically movies that you press a button to unpause. That's a different debate entirely though, one the video game community needs to figure out before people can claim transformative gameplay isn't as such.
Longplays are inherently transformative because watching a game being played is a completely different experience than playing it yourself. Even in very story heavy, linear, and simple games, there are a near infinite number of different paths and experiences one can have with a game because of the player input. Play the Stanley Parable, then watch any two people play the game, and you will very likely see three *very different* experiences.
None of this comes CLOSE to being like what streamers do, which often doesn't even BEGIN to transform the content. Reuploading someone else's work and making money from it is theft, plain and simple! Christ, is that so tough to understand? These people only defend it because of their profit motive, they want to be lazy and get money for it. It's all so tiresome.
I watch a channel called STFU and Play, mostly his VR stuff, and while as the channel name would suggest, he doesn't speak during the games- though he will sometimes edit in meme sounds-, the way he physically reacts to things I'd argue is absolutely transformative. Hell, I've seen plenty of longplays where the way they move the avatar and what they pick first on the dialogue tree imparts a bit of the personality of who's playing, so the idea that there _has_ to be speaking to make it transformative is a bit short sighted, imo.
@@FablesToldI could not agree more. Every single second in most video games is filled with moments where different people will make different choices.
Being able to pay 20k for a lawyer 100% increases your odds in court.
Destiny is either willfully ignoring this, or incredibly, hilariously sheltered.
Yea but a good lawyer will tell you when you're stuffed, so if you've got a legit claim, you don't have much to worry about.
@@mcbean1
Good lawyers cost money.
Good ones are also more than happy to run a case aslong as possible to win by driving the opposition out of money, too.
Many such cases. It's not hard to do with regular folk, either.
@@theriveracis5172 it's also a pretty simple case to run if you're being legitimate. You could quite easily do it without a lawyer, the legal concepts aren't overly convoluted.
@@mcbean1
You can quite easily swap out a water pump in your car.
Most people still don't do that. Especially not on a car they have to rely on.