The real issue with Marvel fight scenes is summed up really well by Jackie Chan. To paraphrase "You can always tell when actors don't know how to fight. You will see lots of cuts from lots of angles to hide the fact that they aren't punching or kicking. That's why my movies don't have cuts in the action scenes"
This analysis is completely undermined by the behind the scenes footage for Winter Soldier where we can see that Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan were absolutely able to do the fight choreography and do it really well only to have it be ruined by the choppy editing.
@@CouchSpud91 I haven't seen them, but the choppy editing still makes it look like it. The real shame of it is that because they wear masks, it would be easy to switch them out with another stunt actor, which is something that the other actors in Marvel have mentioned doing. So even if the actors aren't either physically able to do the choreography or able to learn it, they're in a position to be swapped with someone that can.
@@CouchSpud91 Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan were undermined by choppy editing is what you are saying. Yes I'm paraphrasing Mrs Newman there. Mr Chan's point still hold water. Maybe just not always but certainly not completely.
@@CouchSpud91 If you look behind the scenes you also see several camera's kinda swinging around. It'd be nice if they actually planned some shots. Edit: honestly, I much rather see some of clunkiness than the choreagraphy being hidden.
Although cuts and poor choreography often go hand in hand, they are not inexorably linked in the way JC implies so it ends up just being a forced limitation for poor reasons. In much the same way Tarantino's one-camera limitation is alluded to here. It might well be a limitation that works in a way that focuses a specific director, but it is not a hard and fast rule. With accurate and well executed choreography, you can just as easily allow yourself to reposition cameras where you would otherwise break up the action and do cuts, without any break in the action at all. You're literally just showing the scene, as it was done, in one take, with the added benefit of coverage, assuming you put as much planning into the extra coverage as you do the "main" shot.
"I've watched at least ten movies in my day" Shrek, Shrek II, Shrek the Third, Shrek 4, Shrek Spinoff, Garfield, Garfield 2, The Seventh Seal, FRED the Movie, and Rashomon. Quite a selection.
The fact that you neglected to mention the “I Need A Hero” scene after teasing us with a Shrek 2 acknowledgment....... Unforgivable. That’s the most iconic action scene in cinematic history. Quenching Tarantula WISHES 🙄
He also showed clips of The Raid at the beginning, yet didn't mention The Raid 2 Kitchen Fight; which as we all know, is the best fight scene in cinematic history.
I am not sure if I've ever laughed harder in a theater than at "Bye Miss Laura" when the lady in the doorway gets shot and flies off cartoonishly IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION
Tarantino is a master of action but I would argue that John Wick also manages something impressive by creating incredibly lengthy and bombastic action sequences that actually keep things relatively minimalist with John relying on a pistol or two and his physical abilities. By diversifying the setups in a scene, they manage to take a relatively stripped back sequence and give it a ton of energy and versatility. The club scene in the first one and the New York sequence in Chapter 2 are great examples.
Alright hbomb, I love your videos, but your criticism of the American classic Death Wish 3 on the 4th of July weekend is practically a declaration of war.
Also, you can never talk too long about Tarantino. He just makes films in this really cinematic.. WAY. That's just special, it's just really, really special.
H.Bomberguy is a guy who drops H. bombs. But it's also a pun on his name, Harris Brewis. "Harris Bomberguy" is a humorous mashup of the two that doesn't really make sense.
Aw, but Death Wish 3 is the most cartoony action film ever made! A creepy old mumbly Polish guy concocts reasons to murder people with bigger and bigger weaponry, culminating in the bad guy being blown out of a window with a rocket launcher! There's Home Alone traps, thugs being shot out of trees, Bill from Bill and Ted riding the hood of Deanna Troi's car, it's got everything! Even the Giggler! They killed the Giggler, man!
Man, Home Alone. Home Alone was the first movie with Joe Pesci I ever watched. This was a guy who made his name violent stomping Italian dudes to death, screaming obscenities, and being the angriest shortest pseudo-Italian man on the literal film. But that was the first film I ever saw him in, being the dipshit mobster get cartoonishly beaten in ways that would actually kill a man in real life. 7 year old me loved that shit. I laughed until my gut hurt. A couple years ago, I watched it again (after watching Goodfellas and Casino), and it kind of felt like...I dunno, Christ himself getting crucified. The old Francis Ford Coppola Hollywood dying for the future sins of slapstick Super hero Hollywood future. It was painful, not just because the jokes were canned, but because Joe Pesci is an incredible actor who decided that he was going to headshot his career by staring in one incredibly canned film. Sorry. HBomberguy, doing a cinematic introspective on more movies, you're actually really pretty good at deconstructing themes.
A White Guy Sadly that was the first Joe Pesci movie I saw too... probably a lot for my generation. But then I saw the gut-bustingly funny My Cousin Vinny and I saw him in a whole new light. :D
Actually the thing he is touching is a barrel shroud. Barrel shrouds are there to prevent the user from burning his hands. The actual barrel is smaller and inside. He still grabs the gun in a very weird and unnatural way and there is no way he can manage the recoil of a gun, that is meant to be shot from a tripod, like that. He looks like an old and confused man just being given a machine gun.
The Mandalorian meets all of these criteria for good action, but I think the most important part is that the characters surrounding the action are engaging. If you isolate a single action scene from Pulp Fiction, you're not going to care very much. Having watched the movie, though, you know the motivations, the emotions, and you feel like you're there.
Every Frame a Panting has a great video on Jackie Chan's work in action comedies and also going into detail about the flow of an action sequence and how major an impact good choreography has over cheap editing. It has a ton of views so you are likely to have watched it, but if not check it out!
[looks at title of video] [doesn't say "why marvel movies are bad"] [understands that sometimes giving a single example of something is all you need to do and going on an off topic rant is usually a bad way to make a point]
I thought that the Avengers-on-Avengers battle in Civil War was hilarious. That studio eventually put out a decent comedic action sequence. Then again, I have only seen about 3 of the 482 films in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, so maybe I'm not the best judge.
It's funnily-written but, like, just on this flat terrain with nothing visually interesting going on. Ant man goes big and then just stands there. You get every permutation of characters standing off and quipping in what amounts to the Disney parking lot, and the fights or attempts at visual comedy are like, 'eh'.
But they put it in the movie that is suppose to be the sobering moment for the franchise where they contextualize all of the goofy climaxes of the previous films. I found it super jarring and made me take the story even less seriously because of it.
Not only did I not mind the choice of flat featureless terrain, I thought it was a good choice. It was about the characters. If you had all this crazy Lovecraftian crap in the background (or whatever you'd prefer) it would only serve to distract the focus. Ant Man increasing in size didn't bother me. If he moved about quickly, it would have taken me out of it. I'm sure there's some sort of anatomical/physics reason that large creatures move slowly, but I'm not sure what it is. It's the same reason why Godzilla looks silly when he does those jumping jacks. When he increased in size, it was more about him becoming part of the environment, it was more about the other characters playing off him... perhaps enhancing the scenery a bit to compensate for the shortcomings you felt in their choice of locale. Finally, I thought there was some interesting things going on with Spider Man's acrobatics and Ant Man shrinking and going inside Iron Man's armor. That last bit in particular seemed really clever to me. I'm not saying it was a masterpiece of physical comedy or anything, but I was impressed enough.
The World's End with Simon Pegg and Nick Frost has some of the best fight scenes I've ever seen in it. The choreography is second to none, and they're shot very well too.
I find it very interesting that I agree with you on pretty much everything you say regarding politics, sexism, whatever. And then when it's about movies, you love the movies I hate and vice versa. I agree on the points you make, but we might not agree on the rating for a single movie. It's fascinating
@@duncanallaire2392Haha. It is kinda funny how much sense it would make though. "I'm a conservative misogynist, but boy do we see eye to eye on Quentin Tarantino films!"
***** The lead-up fight was very chop-socky with a lot of anime bits thrown in. I will say that Leone was himself quite influenced by Kurosawa (after all, he did remake _Yojimbo_ as _A Fistful of Dollars_), but the careful build up to a one-on-one battle that's over in seconds is one of Leone's trademarks and you see it all over Tarantino's works, Kill Bill in particular. Heck, when Bill is playing the flute outside the church in Part 2, the music playing is actually from The Good, The Bad and The Ugly where Lee Van Cleef (The Bad) makes his entrance.
That was one of the most boring martial arts fights put on film. I applaud Tarantino for doing clear and easy to follow action, but he fudges on making it look even close to real. It was like I was watching Power Rangers with blood.
That Avengers scene baffled me so much that I never registered it as Black Widow headbumping the guy... but as her "whipping" him in the face with her long girly hair. I was like "Is that possible?". So bad.
How hard would it be to have him move his head closer? Maybe have a take where she winds up her head to hit him and one where she does the headbutt, the second take having his head far away enough that he doesn’t actually get hit.
Every Frame A Painting did a really nice retrospective on Jackie Chan films that touch on this subject. It's a different method than the directors you mentioned here, but Jackie also had some really good methods for making things like headbutts have impact, or lead the viewers attention to a specific thing.
I find it kinda funny that the action scene with Black Widow from the Avengers that you’re using as an example of a bad action scene is one of my favourites in the whole franchise for how badass it is 😂
Same here! I really love her character (or at least the concepts and themes in her story) and I loved seeing the subversion of the femme fatal and the movie tropes of the time. I'm not sure how well it still holds up but it was really nice to see my feminine rage personified. I really feel like her character fell off after the age of Ultron and never really recovered which makes me super upset she has a lot of cool lore in the comics but I always feel like no matter what black widow media I read/ watch none of it really resonates as much as it could I really just hope one day that she gets the story she deserves I think the reason she fell off was that the MCU at the time of her story couldn't really write women or at least Natasha they pretended that she had more depth than what they gave her (which wasn't much) Sorry if this doesn't make sense I just love the character as a whole and really want a good rendition of her.
I think Tarantino using only one camera is good though. It means you can get precise lighting and you're paying attention to what is in the frame. You're more careful about how you shoot if there's only one angle. If you know you're likely to fall back on a crutch, get rid of the crutch. It's why I draw in pen a lot. (Not always, obviously.) Some other rules I wish film makers would abide by: If you can use practical effects, use practical effects. Don't fall back on CGI, it's lazy. If it's not needed, cut it. Don't overcrowd your frames (GEORGE LUCAS) *ahem* Only cut if it adds something. If the cut is useless, don't cut.
I keep watching bronson hold that machine gun barrel with his bare hands. MG barrels get so hot when you shoot them (especially as fast as he is) they turn deep,deep red.
VolokArtyom i've seen it, and i love the kurosawa films on which a lot of leone's were based. i think what really made leone the best for his action scenes, however, was the music. it was selected and applied incredibly well and it adds SO much to the leone westerns. i mean, not everyone has a ennio morricone in their back pockets, but i think a lot of action scenes are hurt by bad music.
It's been a while since I watched The Avengers last and seeing these clips here is a shocking contrast to the fight choreography in The Winter Soldier.
To be fair, with the Deathwish Series, we already have 2 movies prior telling us the backstory, development motivations and actions of the main character. Hence why 3 just skips that and jumps straight into the action. It's not the best film in the series, but at least with 3 you know what you're getting because in action series, it works in that setting because the further down the line you go, the less interested you usually are with hearing about the main character's backstories because we've already seen it. The way to do it right is kinda like Rambo. First Blood is an amazing film which tells a very deep, underlying narrative of the effects of war has on the human mind and just how far a single man will go to defend himself if he feels he's being pushed over the edge by society. First Blood Part 2 carries on some of those ideas, but focuses more on generic action. But we still see more development in Rambo's character with how he interacts with the Vietnamese freedom fighter he ends up falling for. Rambo 3, which is one of the worst ones in the series does carry on SOME elements of Rambo's character evolution. He still wears that girl's necklace that shows us the audience that the events of the previous film just weren't swept under the rug. That character affected Rambo in a very deep and powerful way, otherwise why would he bother to keep her necklace? And Rambo 4.....I got nothing. That movie was just plain awful.
There are a few points you made in this video that I disagree with, so here they are in chronological order: 1. While I completely agree that Death Wish 3 is not a good film, it's also very much a product of its time. It was a second sequel in the 80's, which means it was the point where Death Wish transformed into a series (trilogies weren't really A Thing back then, even after Star Wars). Which in turn meant that the studio figured they didn't need to give deathwishman a deep characterization or an engaging narrative, since at that point he was a series protagonist, not a primary character in a single movie. 2. I don't think the action sequences in the Marvel movies were that bad. Tarantino has a very particular opinion on what makes a good action scene and an ego the size of Mt. Everest, but liking or disliking the action in the MCU is ultimately a matter of taste (the camera work in the Black Widow scene was godawful though). 3. The pistol scene in From Dusk Till Dawn 3. The purpose of the derringer in that scene is fundamentally different than in Django, and I think it actually works really well. The message of the whole scene is not "holy shit, she has a gun", but "holy shit, she's not defenseless", which is conveyed through her movement and the reactions to it (which is the focus of the shot, as it should be). The reason she's holding a derringer is simply to explain how she could have hidden a gun away on her person (this not being a Tarantino film where realism is waived for the sake of Rule of Cool). 4. The action scenes in Avengers were never meant to have much comedy in them. It's a fundamental error to think just because one part of a film has comedic writing, then all of the film must have comedic writing. Avengers is a comic book movie, meant to translate comic book sensibilities to film, and I think it succeeds extremely well in that (which is one of the main areas where I feel like the DC movies dropped the ball massively, as they tried to divorce their subject matter from its comic origins and deliver a purely cinematic superhero movie, which has worked exactly never).
To your point on implied death in film, one moment that has stuck with me since I saw it is the scene in No Country For Old Men in which Chigurh steps out of Llewellyn's wife's house after coming in with the intent to kill her and checking the bottoms of his boots for blood. It shows early on that he likes to keep his boots clean to set it up, and it creates a chilling moment without actually showing you anything
Me before watching: "I'd say Music, Dialogue, Camerawork, Acting and Stuntwork all contribute, and... any action scene can become stellar, if even just one of those things is handled expertly." Me after watching: "Ah, I see the real answer is Hbomberguy in a ScarJo wig." ~~ Lol, but seriously, nice vid. I'd been avoiding your vids for the longest time (despite the youtube recommendation algorithm) because I felt the "___ is ___ and here's why" title format was way too clickbaity, but after my brother (whom just finished his doctorate and I respect a lot) recommended me your channel I've found myself watching all your vids (I say that, I'm only about 10 or so vids in, but I'll finish 'em all dang it!). So just wanna say I like your content and hope you have many years to come of making it as long as it brings ye joy.
Usually I'm depressed by the anti-feminist comments but now it's people defending assembly-line corporate product like the Marvel movies. It's like watching people passionately defend Oreos. It's all well and good to enjoy it, but to pretend it's good just because it's the only thing placed in front of you? The death of video stores really has pushed people into embracing mediocrity much more fervently, hasn't it?
A comparison to videogames wouode be more appropriate. sure developers like Ubisoft or Activision bring out the same repetitive game and at a point people eventually grow tired but then they release that one gem that makes people instantly forget that while its a similar formula it's done extremely well for ubisoft some people consider that game to be Assassins Creed 4; for the marvel movies some would point out the Captain America movies (the second one and Civil War). However, for me, the movie that has made me forgive Marvel for all the shortcomings in their movies is not even a movie, but it totally should be. It's Daredevil. Nothing wrong with it I just wish people would strive to demand d better front their product so that we can get more of those gems that Marvel has shown that it has the potential to make.
I think Marvel movies are really good. Especially if you take to account the history of superhero movie genre, it really is as good as you can get. Seriously, what is your problem with them? I mean, I don't like each and every Marvel movie out there, but I don't know any company who does stuff better than they do right now. Maybe you can name me a few...
Арсений Брилёв "Seriously, what is your problem with them?" I don't have a problem with them. I saw a number of people giving hbomberguy shit for criticizing them, and I just found it...depressing. "I don't know any company who does stuff better than they do right now." But that's just it. Right there. The way you phrased that. What COMPANY is making better stuff? I mean, I know movies are products, but people seem a little too comfortable embracing that aspect of them now, more than ever. It's like you're asking me what company makes a better cookie than Nabisco. Well, I mean, if you're limiting your diet to processed foods...? I don't think of movies OR cookies that way.
I don't see how video stores are a factor. Video stores went out of business because the internet is a much better resource for finding movies for home viewing.
Also, while I understand where you're coming from, I think it's a little disingenuous to imply that people are pretending that Marvel's good just because it's the only thing that's placed in front of them. Plenty of people enjoy some or all of the Avengers movies for actual reasons, ones that they could probably explain if asked. On top of that, they're not the only thing placed in front of anyone. Anyone with an internet connection has greater access to more media than any other time in human history. People aren't gravitating toward the Marvel movies because they have no other options, they gravitate toward the Marvel movies because the Marvel movies, in part or in whole, are the kind of thing they're into. And, like, it's fine to not be into them, and it's even fine to wish that the people who were into them would dedicate their attention to something you feel is more worthy and under appreciated, but I think a conversation like that will be more productive for everyone involved if you try to understand why people like the movies that you think are a waste of time, instead of just assuming that they've simply "embraced mediocrity."
I do love Death Wish 3 lol. I always think of it as a comedy though. When he says "Teeth" to the old couple, it makes me laugh every time. This take on action scenes in general is brilliant.
I wasn't on board with your Marvel argument, but then you threw to a clip of COMMUNITY season 6 and now, exclusively for that, I say you're 100% correct.
Holy shit, I've had an issue with the MCU's action scenes since the first Avengers movie came out, and I could never properly say why. Thank you for finally offering me the answer
Metal Gear Solid 4 (which is basically a movie) has two characters who realize they've been in love for the entire game WHILE WORKING TOGETHER TO SHOOT DOZENS OF BAD GUYS. They come within like, two seconds of boning, then remember there are still more people to shoot.
I was never really confused/jarred by the Black Widow scene, and it seems to me like it *was* character-driven action. Actually several action scenes in the Avengers seem fairly character-driven; the Thor and Loki fights spring to mind.
Hello. Stunt fighter, actor, coordinator, and motion-capture director here. It takes so much to make a good action scene. Aside from performers who know what they're doing - acting the fight, adjusting for camera, keeping energy up but being safe through countless takes - you need a coordinator who's good, a DP who can shoot action, and an editor who can cut it. I've done fights where the script just says, "They fight. It's awesome." And that's fine, if the director can get out of the way while the experts do their job. Or better yet, a director like Chad Stahelski (John Wick) will be as adept as anyone on set. The results of the latter speak for themselves.
I've recently rewatched some MCU films and while I didn't really notice what you were talking about in The Avengers, I did notice that Thor has a lot of weird, random Dutch angles. Like, in every other scene. For some reason, Kenneth Branagh even did Dutch angles for many of the establishing shots, and for the life of me I cannot understand why.
One action movie I really like of course is Mad Max Fury Road but another I adore is Hot Fuzz, even though it's also a parody. You can really tell they did their homework about what makes action great.
I think it's worth pointing out that Tarantino is on record as being heavily influenced by Sergio Leone. Anybody who's watched the Dollars trilogy, particularly The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, knows how Leone masterfully handled visual storytelling. The final shootout in TGTBATU is a great example. It's 5 minutes of build up and it's over in all of 8 seconds, but the tension really holds the whole time, starting with a broad bird's eye shot and gradually getting closer and closer as the moment nears. The introduction to Lee Van Cleef is also slow and deliberate, but he just oozes menace as he comes in and starts eating dinner with a guy they both know he's there to kill. Leone also had a great knack for building terrains out of the faces of his supporting actors and extras, who told the story of how brutal the world is just from their downtrodden, weather-beaten faces. The very first shot of The Good, The Bad and The Ugly is Al Mulock's wild face stepping in front of an untamed wild west plain. Tells you everything in the first 3 seconds. The scene where the captured Confederate soldiers have to sing to cover Tuco's beating is told by the faces alone. Same for the Union Captain who has to order another futile attack on a bridge that he knows will just kill more men under his command. To say nothing of the building zooms on the eyes of the final three gunfighters. There's a reason that film is one of my favourites.
How are you not a more popular youtuber! Everything you say or explain is perfectly said that it shows what your trying to explain but at the same time is utterly hilarious!! 😂
The Winter Soldier has the best action scenes in the MCU. And one of the best car chase scenes in movies i've seen in a while. I think putting it alongside trash like The Avengers 1 & 2 is an insult. I was invested in every single action sequence in The Winter Soldier. And there was a point to every single big action scenes. Either the plot got moved ahead or there was a very important character reveal that made each sequence resonate with me. Most importantly, they were shot really well.
2014 wass wild. It had the golden trio, The Martian, The Winter Solider, and Mad Max Fury Road, idk what happened there but yeah, CA:TWS will somehow always stand out among the MCU movies, and you will understand it perfectly even if you have zero previous idea about Marvel or any of the characters.
This is obvious satire. I mean, look at the way he complains about the Avengers' shots as implausible, then cuts to them in slow motion, demonstrating the opposite, while he's fawning over Quinlan Thompson. Or how he selectively ignores similar framing between the movie he's praising and the one he's panning.
If anyone here hasn't seen it already I'd highly recommend Every Frame a Painting's video on Jackie Chan. It's a great breakdown of how he shoots his fight scenes to both be funny but visceral.
You should check out the Every Frame a Painting video that explains how Jackie Chan's action feels fluid compared to modern Hollywood cinema. He talks the same things that you mention.
I also love he hipfires that lmg like it wouldn't burn his hands off. Our manly hero, he has no feeling in his hands anymore from shooting so much, truely an aspiring rolemodel.
I thought the same thing! Now granted, there are stories from WWII of soldiers and marines doing what he did with that very same machine gun, but they also had the excuse of having enough adrenaline running through them to kill a horse so they didn’t feel the third degree burns from it. God I hate when filmmakers don’t do their research about guns.
Alright Mr. "Guy" I don't know who you think you are, but Sir Charles Bronson is an American hero and the entire Death Wish series is LITERALLY flawless. If you think you can just slander it's good name like this then you've got another thing coming I tell you what.
Steven Spielberg is great at using humor to inform the action in his films. A good example of this come in this exchange from the boat chase in The Last Crusade: "Are you crazy? Don't go between them!" "Go between them? Are you crazy?!"
Rewatched this after watching the first season of Ash Vs. Evil Dead and Captain America: The Winter Soldier in the same week and kept wishing the movie had been directed by Sam Raimi. At least then the scene of a guy yoinking another guy out of a car and throwing him in front of a truck would have been played for laughs, as God intended.
Not a huge Whedon fan, but seeing as in that Black Widow scene from Avengers that it's obvious things have gone sideways for her captors and that immediately afterwards you find that things at that point were sideways to what Natasha was angling for, the sideways angle of the shots at least serve as visual language in keeping with the plot narrative relevant to the scene...
I realized this turned into a ramble, but idungivafuk. "Flippydoo before he can get to his gun" Does it... matter? Does it matter what the guy was doing besides being staggered? This guy wasn't an important character as far as i remember, so i don't care too much about his plight. Or would it have been more exciting/urgencied if the scene had showed some danger and not just Widow beating the crap out of everyone? I don't think that's the point since, again, this isn't a conflict we're interested in. This whole scene just reintroduced the character and what her deal is. Every character got a scene like that since it's a crossover and all. The action isn't even that that big a deal here. The only point it served is to show that Widow is a karate jitsu. Which is important to show, but yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if the scene was elongated because of a studio mandate. Though i can't say i'm particularly outraged over losing those 20 seconds. I recently watched Age of Ultron with director's commentary because i'm a fucking nerd, and i remember one part where Whedon said that action with no point beyond "yay, fighting" is what he does _not_ like to do. And i daresay pretty much all action scenes in those movies serve the story or characters in _some_ way. Even if they're longer than they need to be because things exploding is fun. "Why is this shot sideways?" Because conveying what it feels like to do (or have done to you) a spinnydoo. Is my guess. I think you missed an opportunity by having most of your positive examples not be action scenes. As in a scene centred around action. The only one is Terminator 2, and you don't really talk about it in detail. Like "How does this great scene tick all the boxes." Speaking of action, you know what i just saw? The tv version of Black Rock Shooter. That has soo much action with absolutely zero point to it. It's not even the main characters doing the fighting! I am completely dumbstruck over how this story came about. And you know what? It was still fucking awesome. Partially because it was very well animated, and partially because the choreography was very fast and inventive. Getting a little philosophical (with emphasis on a little), is there a big difference between watching action and, say, watching a Michael Jackson music video? Or the ballet. Or... watching a painting. What art can be found in action alone? I don't know. Maybe somebody does.
Wish this vid had been made while I was college for film and could show it to my class. This articulated my thoughts in action movies and scenes so perfectly.
There's a lot to point out in this video, but I want to point out the one thing no one else has mentioned: the reason Black Widow's hurricanrana is filmed sideways is because of the strange reverse nature in which the body is placed in order to execute it. The move itself is very strange, and as a long time wrestling fan, it's still a strange move to watch. The changing of the angle compliments the movements of the character. I think it works just fine, even if the rest of the choreography and camerawork isn't as good.
I'm glad you agree that Godzilla 2014 looks sweet, I know the film has its problems, but like the scene where they drop from the sky, holy shit, It looks so fucking awesome, and the music.
A better example of how you can add comedy to a scene just by how it's filmed or subtle acting is in He Never Died. On a pure plot level, it's horror or action. If I told you there was a scene where Henry Rollins drags a man out of his car, tears his throat out with his bare hands, and eats it, you might think it's horrific. In practice, it's hilarious. The reverse is true as well: If I told you there was a scene where he plays an escalating number of Bingo cards, you might think it was funny, rather than tense as fuck. Also, if you haven't seen it, see He Never Died. It has Henry Rollins in it.
The black widow scene communicates everything the audince needs to know about her - she's clever, hot, and a peak-human fighter. As much as that characterization can get stale, it's communicated well. The camera is weird, but it acompishes the scene's objective of setting up the charecter.
I think one big thing with the MCU is that they're kinda trying to make the movies with the look/feel of the comic books: dialogue, plot arcs (especially evolving myth arcs), Avenger friends not showing up unless necessary in solo movies, and it extends into the cinematography. I don't want to say it's a problem, but even as a fan, it's a little hit and miss. A lot of shots feel like they could be laid out in a panel - that side shot on Black Widow you pointed out, the quick zoom to Edward Norton's face whenever he Hulked out, the shot of the newly muscled Steve Rogers stepping out of the Iron Coffin, rapid angle changing (comics actually do this a lot in fight scenes), every movie seems to have at least one "two page spread"- like shot, etc, sometimes it's cool, and other times it's like - this looks pretty warped. I don't have a huge problem with it, on paper it sounds cool, and I'm usually not thinking enough about the technical stuff in the movie to care, but I get how it could be hard to follow. JJ Abrams Trek movies do a lot of similar stupid camera shit, too. One thing that bugs me was that there was so much camera flippy spinny shit. I kinda understand trying a 0g effect in space, but EVERY time the camera was moving it would spin or be at a weird angle and it just makes me dizzy. Kinda like how I felt watching that first big fight scene between the Transformers and the Decepticons on the freeway in the first transformer movie.
"Taken 3" took 14 camera cuts in 6 seconds to show Liam Neeson jumping a fence And I will NEVER forget that.
Looked it up because of you and wtf 😂
That seems wasteful. What the hell? Did he have trouble jumping the fence, or did they just need to use every camera on set???
Interesting side bit death wish also has a history with fences although a very different one.
@@Tp_hedgelinghog He was 62 years old at the time, so he probably did have trouble jumping the fence, yeah.
14 camera cuts not 14 cameras used to complete the shot @@Tp_hedgelinghog
The real issue with Marvel fight scenes is summed up really well by Jackie Chan. To paraphrase "You can always tell when actors don't know how to fight. You will see lots of cuts from lots of angles to hide the fact that they aren't punching or kicking. That's why my movies don't have cuts in the action scenes"
This analysis is completely undermined by the behind the scenes footage for Winter Soldier where we can see that Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan were absolutely able to do the fight choreography and do it really well only to have it be ruined by the choppy editing.
@@CouchSpud91 I haven't seen them, but the choppy editing still makes it look like it. The real shame of it is that because they wear masks, it would be easy to switch them out with another stunt actor, which is something that the other actors in Marvel have mentioned doing. So even if the actors aren't either physically able to do the choreography or able to learn it, they're in a position to be swapped with someone that can.
@@CouchSpud91 Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan were undermined by choppy editing is what you are saying. Yes I'm paraphrasing Mrs Newman there.
Mr Chan's point still hold water. Maybe just not always but certainly not completely.
@@CouchSpud91
If you look behind the scenes you also see several camera's kinda swinging around.
It'd be nice if they actually planned some shots.
Edit: honestly, I much rather see some of clunkiness than the choreagraphy being hidden.
Although cuts and poor choreography often go hand in hand, they are not inexorably linked in the way JC implies so it ends up just being a forced limitation for poor reasons. In much the same way Tarantino's one-camera limitation is alluded to here. It might well be a limitation that works in a way that focuses a specific director, but it is not a hard and fast rule. With accurate and well executed choreography, you can just as easily allow yourself to reposition cameras where you would otherwise break up the action and do cuts, without any break in the action at all. You're literally just showing the scene, as it was done, in one take, with the added benefit of coverage, assuming you put as much planning into the extra coverage as you do the "main" shot.
1:30 Having a manservant cart around the hero's ammo in a cardboard box while he mows down truckloads of baddies needs to be an action movie trope.
"I've watched at least ten movies in my day"
Shrek, Shrek II, Shrek the Third, Shrek 4, Shrek Spinoff, Garfield, Garfield 2, The Seventh Seal, FRED the Movie, and Rashomon. Quite a selection.
*Goes on to cite a number of movies that aren't any of them...*
The fact that he threw in Seventh Seal and Rashomon is what makes it great
Yes, that is the joke.
Don't you dare call the American classic Puss in Boots just "Shrek Spinoff"
The fact that you neglected to mention the “I Need A Hero” scene after teasing us with a Shrek 2 acknowledgment....... Unforgivable. That’s the most iconic action scene in cinematic history. Quenching Tarantula WISHES 🙄
He also showed clips of The Raid at the beginning, yet didn't mention The Raid 2 Kitchen Fight; which as we all know, is the best fight scene in cinematic history.
The song is "Holding out for a Hero."
@@Voldine2 thank you, voldy
I am not sure if I've ever laughed harder in a theater than at "Bye Miss Laura" when the lady in the doorway gets shot and flies off cartoonishly IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION
Tarantino is a master of action but I would argue that John Wick also manages something impressive by creating incredibly lengthy and bombastic action sequences that actually keep things relatively minimalist with John relying on a pistol or two and his physical abilities. By diversifying the setups in a scene, they manage to take a relatively stripped back sequence and give it a ton of energy and versatility. The club scene in the first one and the New York sequence in Chapter 2 are great examples.
Alright hbomb, I love your videos, but your criticism of the American classic Death Wish 3 on the 4th of July weekend is practically a declaration of war.
Are you my dead wife?
I will not rest until I see you prosecuted for my murder.
+Dollar Store Cashier Wife That's it! You're going back in the refrigerator.
They shot this 'American Classic' in Britain!
Au though I do agree that the mocking of any Death Wish film is high heresy.
If anyone disrespects Charles Bronson I take it as a personal insult.
"Harris Bomberguy" WAT? Here I was reading it "hydrogen bomb - er - guy".
Also, you can never talk too long about Tarantino. He just makes films in this really cinematic.. WAY. That's just special, it's just really, really special.
H.Bomberguy is a guy who drops H. bombs. But it's also a pun on his name, Harris Brewis. "Harris Bomberguy" is a humorous mashup of the two that doesn't really make sense.
@@EebstertheGreat At XOXO, I believe he says his brother came up with the name.
0/10 - not enough toy skulls
MGS3 does fight scenes really well since it shows all the action clearly while also building up the relationships and rivalries between the characters
That final showdown between ocelot and snake inside the airplane is beautiful
Aw, but Death Wish 3 is the most cartoony action film ever made! A creepy old mumbly Polish guy concocts reasons to murder people with bigger and bigger weaponry, culminating in the bad guy being blown out of a window with a rocket launcher! There's Home Alone traps, thugs being shot out of trees, Bill from Bill and Ted riding the hood of Deanna Troi's car, it's got everything! Even the Giggler!
They killed the Giggler, man!
Man, Home Alone. Home Alone was the first movie with Joe Pesci I ever watched. This was a guy who made his name violent stomping Italian dudes to death, screaming obscenities, and being the angriest shortest pseudo-Italian man on the literal film.
But that was the first film I ever saw him in, being the dipshit mobster get cartoonishly beaten in ways that would actually kill a man in real life. 7 year old me loved that shit. I laughed until my gut hurt. A couple years ago, I watched it again (after watching Goodfellas and Casino), and it kind of felt like...I dunno, Christ himself getting crucified. The old Francis Ford Coppola Hollywood dying for the future sins of slapstick Super hero Hollywood future. It was painful, not just because the jokes were canned, but because Joe Pesci is an incredible actor who decided that he was going to headshot his career by staring in one incredibly canned film.
Sorry. HBomberguy, doing a cinematic introspective on more movies, you're actually really pretty good at deconstructing themes.
A White Guy Sadly that was the first Joe Pesci movie I saw too... probably a lot for my generation. But then I saw the gut-bustingly funny My Cousin Vinny and I saw him in a whole new light. :D
dude he would have burned his hand so fucking hard holding that machine gun like that
*Right?* I don't even know a lot about guns, but that bugged the shit out of me.
Like, the barrel has holes in it so it doesn’t melt or warp.
Actually the thing he is touching is a barrel shroud. Barrel shrouds are there to prevent the user from burning his hands. The actual barrel is smaller and inside.
He still grabs the gun in a very weird and unnatural way and there is no way he can manage the recoil of a gun, that is meant to be shot from a tripod, like that. He looks like an old and confused man just being given a machine gun.
God I love Question Tarantula so much
At the time of Covid, I love Tartin Quarantino
Perhaps you meant Quantum Tarantella
You bozos! It's Quotient Tatarstan! Put some respect on his name😤
The Mandalorian meets all of these criteria for good action, but I think the most important part is that the characters surrounding the action are engaging. If you isolate a single action scene from Pulp Fiction, you're not going to care very much. Having watched the movie, though, you know the motivations, the emotions, and you feel like you're there.
Thank you for making my Patreon name sound as over-the-top and ridiculous as I'd intended it to be.
Me, watching this: HOT FUZZ HOT FUZZ HOT FUZZ HOT FUZZ
“Have you ever pointed a gun at the sky shooting it while yelling ‘ahhhhh!’”
i absolutely adore hot fuzz
"Action is the result of story"
Thats a good quote actually
Every Frame a Panting has a great video on Jackie Chan's work in action comedies and also going into detail about the flow of an action sequence and how major an impact good choreography has over cheap editing. It has a ton of views so you are likely to have watched it, but if not check it out!
[analyzes one scene from one movie in an entire franchise]
[doesn't like it]
[condemns entire franchise for having poor scenes]
Wat?
I could have talked about all the films in the series and the problems with their action scenes but I didn't want to turn it into a marvel hatefest
I think he more was trying to call it uneven.
It would have been a 1:30 hour long video
[looks at title of video]
[doesn't say "why marvel movies are bad"]
[understands that sometimes giving a single example of something is all you need to do and going on an off topic rant is usually a bad way to make a point]
Thanks Jesus :)
I thought that the Avengers-on-Avengers battle in Civil War was hilarious. That studio eventually put out a decent comedic action sequence. Then again, I have only seen about 3 of the 482 films in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, so maybe I'm not the best judge.
It's funnily-written but, like, just on this flat terrain with nothing visually interesting going on. Ant man goes big and then just stands there.
You get every permutation of characters standing off and quipping in what amounts to the Disney parking lot, and the fights or attempts at visual comedy are like, 'eh'.
But they put it in the movie that is suppose to be the sobering moment for the franchise where they contextualize all of the goofy climaxes of the previous films.
I found it super jarring and made me take the story even less seriously because of it.
Not only did I not mind the choice of flat featureless terrain, I thought it was a good choice. It was about the characters. If you had all this crazy Lovecraftian crap in the background (or whatever you'd prefer) it would only serve to distract the focus.
Ant Man increasing in size didn't bother me. If he moved about quickly, it would have taken me out of it. I'm sure there's some sort of anatomical/physics reason that large creatures move slowly, but I'm not sure what it is. It's the same reason why Godzilla looks silly when he does those jumping jacks. When he increased in size, it was more about him becoming part of the environment, it was more about the other characters playing off him... perhaps enhancing the scenery a bit to compensate for the shortcomings you felt in their choice of locale.
Finally, I thought there was some interesting things going on with Spider Man's acrobatics and Ant Man shrinking and going inside Iron Man's armor. That last bit in particular seemed really clever to me. I'm not saying it was a masterpiece of physical comedy or anything, but I was impressed enough.
I intentionally avoid watching too many movies just so I can't notice stupid cliches. Marvel movies are still pretty stupid though.
Eric Cheese Oh true. I think that they are terribly stupid. I just wanted to give credit where I felt credit was due.
The World's End with Simon Pegg and Nick Frost has some of the best fight scenes I've ever seen in it. The choreography is second to none, and they're shot very well too.
I find it very interesting that I agree with you on pretty much everything you say regarding politics, sexism, whatever. And then when it's about movies, you love the movies I hate and vice versa. I agree on the points you make, but we might not agree on the rating for a single movie. It's fascinating
I read this as the reverse at first and was wildly confused as to why you were here
@@duncanallaire2392Haha. It is kinda funny how much sense it would make though. "I'm a conservative misogynist, but boy do we see eye to eye on Quentin Tarantino films!"
This marks the first time I've laughed at a Patreon supporters list
This video had zero Aurini skulls, 10/10
I was really hoping you were going to talk about the katana fight at end of kill Bill 1. that scene is magnificent.
It was very Leone. :D
***** The lead-up fight was very chop-socky with a lot of anime bits thrown in. I will say that Leone was himself quite influenced by Kurosawa (after all, he did remake _Yojimbo_ as _A Fistful of Dollars_), but the careful build up to a one-on-one battle that's over in seconds is one of Leone's trademarks and you see it all over Tarantino's works, Kill Bill in particular.
Heck, when Bill is playing the flute outside the church in Part 2, the music playing is actually from The Good, The Bad and The Ugly where Lee Van Cleef (The Bad) makes his entrance.
rathkAliA kill bill is awesome. Part 3 when?
That was one of the most boring martial arts fights put on film. I applaud Tarantino for doing clear and easy to follow action, but he fudges on making it look even close to real. It was like I was watching Power Rangers with blood.
@@Mharriscreations Boring, more like extremely tense and engaging given the context of the rest of the entire movie.
I read the title as, "What does an Action Scene Good?", which I think is a better title.
That Avengers scene baffled me so much that I never registered it as Black Widow headbumping the guy... but as her "whipping" him in the face with her long girly hair. I was like "Is that possible?". So bad.
How hard would it be to have him move his head closer? Maybe have a take where she winds up her head to hit him and one where she does the headbutt, the second take having his head far away enough that he doesn’t actually get hit.
Every Frame A Painting did a really nice retrospective on Jackie Chan films that touch on this subject. It's a different method than the directors you mentioned here, but Jackie also had some really good methods for making things like headbutts have impact, or lead the viewers attention to a specific thing.
I find it kinda funny that the action scene with Black Widow from the Avengers that you’re using as an example of a bad action scene is one of my favourites in the whole franchise for how badass it is 😂
Same here! I really love her character (or at least the concepts and themes in her story) and I loved seeing the subversion of the femme fatal and the movie tropes of the time. I'm not sure how well it still holds up but it was really nice to see my feminine rage personified.
I really feel like her character fell off after the age of Ultron and never really recovered which makes me super upset she has a lot of cool lore in the comics but I always feel like no matter what black widow media I read/ watch none of it really resonates as much as it could I really just hope one day that she gets the story she deserves
I think the reason she fell off was that the MCU at the time of her story couldn't really write women or at least Natasha they pretended that she had more depth than what they gave her (which wasn't much)
Sorry if this doesn't make sense I just love the character as a whole and really want a good rendition of her.
I think Tarantino using only one camera is good though. It means you can get precise lighting and you're paying attention to what is in the frame. You're more careful about how you shoot if there's only one angle.
If you know you're likely to fall back on a crutch, get rid of the crutch. It's why I draw in pen a lot. (Not always, obviously.)
Some other rules I wish film makers would abide by:
If you can use practical effects, use practical effects. Don't fall back on CGI, it's lazy.
If it's not needed, cut it.
Don't overcrowd your frames (GEORGE LUCAS) *ahem*
Only cut if it adds something. If the cut is useless, don't cut.
Kai Sea Harris likes The Star Wars Prequels
I keep watching bronson hold that machine gun barrel with his bare hands. MG barrels get so hot when you shoot them (especially as fast as he is) they turn deep,deep red.
more videos abt film pls!!!! i love the way you talk about this stuff.
Check out every frame a painting if you want to see more content like this video.
At first I thought you were insulting her and telling her to go appreciate art in very bad English. XD
omg i did too actually, i got scared for a moment. i will tho!! thanks for the rec.
Taylor Manes
I've watched about a dozen of them and they are pretty great. GJ
Your wish has been granted
I may be hated because of my opinion. But. I objectively think that Bee Movie has the best action scenes on cinema history.
That reminds me: did you know that according to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly? Incredible!
You are loved because of your opinion
Celestina
It's not an opinion it's a fact.
He's talking about films, not anime.
Bee Movie has become somewhat of a meme, but I really enjoyed it and am actually kind of nostalgic for it.
Oh, Garfield, the movie that accurately represents the [consistency] of Jim Davis' work
wow no mention of sergio leone, the GOAT of directing action scenes.
STEP IT UP SCRUB.
Watch Yojimbo, i have a feeling you'll like it :^)
VolokArtyom i've seen it, and i love the kurosawa films on which a lot of leone's were based. i think what really made leone the best for his action scenes, however, was the music.
it was selected and applied incredibly well and it adds SO much to the leone westerns.
i mean, not everyone has a ennio morricone in their back pockets, but i think a lot of action scenes are hurt by bad music.
The eclectic film taste demonstrated at 0:52 might just be my favourite gag used on this channel.
Harris, your ScarJo cosplay is the best part of any video ever made.
It's been a while since I watched The Avengers last and seeing these clips here is a shocking contrast to the fight choreography in The Winter Soldier.
The fact that you cited THAT scene from Millers Crossing as one of the great action scenes gets you an immediate like from me!
To be fair, with the Deathwish Series, we already have 2 movies prior telling us the backstory, development motivations and actions of the main character. Hence why 3 just skips that and jumps straight into the action.
It's not the best film in the series, but at least with 3 you know what you're getting because in action series, it works in that setting because the further down the line you go, the less interested you usually are with hearing about the main character's backstories because we've already seen it.
The way to do it right is kinda like Rambo. First Blood is an amazing film which tells a very deep, underlying narrative of the effects of war has on the human mind and just how far a single man will go to defend himself if he feels he's being pushed over the edge by society.
First Blood Part 2 carries on some of those ideas, but focuses more on generic action. But we still see more development in Rambo's character with how he interacts with the Vietnamese freedom fighter he ends up falling for.
Rambo 3, which is one of the worst ones in the series does carry on SOME elements of Rambo's character evolution. He still wears that girl's necklace that shows us the audience that the events of the previous film just weren't swept under the rug. That character affected Rambo in a very deep and powerful way, otherwise why would he bother to keep her necklace?
And Rambo 4.....I got nothing. That movie was just plain awful.
There are a few points you made in this video that I disagree with, so here they are in chronological order:
1. While I completely agree that Death Wish 3 is not a good film, it's also very much a product of its time. It was a second sequel in the 80's, which means it was the point where Death Wish transformed into a series (trilogies weren't really A Thing back then, even after Star Wars). Which in turn meant that the studio figured they didn't need to give deathwishman a deep characterization or an engaging narrative, since at that point he was a series protagonist, not a primary character in a single movie.
2. I don't think the action sequences in the Marvel movies were that bad. Tarantino has a very particular opinion on what makes a good action scene and an ego the size of Mt. Everest, but liking or disliking the action in the MCU is ultimately a matter of taste (the camera work in the Black Widow scene was godawful though).
3. The pistol scene in From Dusk Till Dawn 3. The purpose of the derringer in that scene is fundamentally different than in Django, and I think it actually works really well. The message of the whole scene is not "holy shit, she has a gun", but "holy shit, she's not defenseless", which is conveyed through her movement and the reactions to it (which is the focus of the shot, as it should be). The reason she's holding a derringer is simply to explain how she could have hidden a gun away on her person (this not being a Tarantino film where realism is waived for the sake of Rule of Cool).
4. The action scenes in Avengers were never meant to have much comedy in them. It's a fundamental error to think just because one part of a film has comedic writing, then all of the film must have comedic writing. Avengers is a comic book movie, meant to translate comic book sensibilities to film, and I think it succeeds extremely well in that (which is one of the main areas where I feel like the DC movies dropped the ball massively, as they tried to divorce their subject matter from its comic origins and deliver a purely cinematic superhero movie, which has worked exactly never).
11:20 I've already forgot, how hilarious the way that maid fell after being shot was. Thanks for reminding me
To your point on implied death in film, one moment that has stuck with me since I saw it is the scene in No Country For Old Men in which Chigurh steps out of Llewellyn's wife's house after coming in with the intent to kill her and checking the bottoms of his boots for blood. It shows early on that he likes to keep his boots clean to set it up, and it creates a chilling moment without actually showing you anything
STOP CALLING HIM DEATHWISH MAN... HE DOESN"T ONLY DEATHWISH... I CANT STOP LAUGHING
I'm so glad you mentioned mad max fury road, because that's my favorite action movie of all time.
Me before watching: "I'd say Music, Dialogue, Camerawork, Acting and Stuntwork all contribute, and... any action scene can become stellar, if even just one of those things is handled expertly."
Me after watching: "Ah, I see the real answer is Hbomberguy in a ScarJo wig."
~~
Lol, but seriously, nice vid.
I'd been avoiding your vids for the longest time (despite the youtube recommendation algorithm) because I felt the "___ is ___ and here's why" title format was way too clickbaity, but after my brother (whom just finished his doctorate and I respect a lot) recommended me your channel I've found myself watching all your vids (I say that, I'm only about 10 or so vids in, but I'll finish 'em all dang it!).
So just wanna say I like your content and hope you have many years to come of making it as long as it brings ye joy.
I was howling when I first watched Death Wish 3 and realized that about 10% of its running time was dedicated to mail ordering weapons.
Usually I'm depressed by the anti-feminist comments but now it's people defending assembly-line corporate product like the Marvel movies. It's like watching people passionately defend Oreos. It's all well and good to enjoy it, but to pretend it's good just because it's the only thing placed in front of you? The death of video stores really has pushed people into embracing mediocrity much more fervently, hasn't it?
A comparison to videogames wouode be more appropriate.
sure developers like Ubisoft or Activision bring out the same repetitive game and at a point people eventually grow tired but then they release that one gem that makes people instantly forget that while its a similar formula it's done extremely well for ubisoft some people consider that game to be Assassins Creed 4; for the marvel movies some would point out the Captain America movies (the second one and Civil War).
However, for me, the movie that has made me forgive Marvel for all the shortcomings in their movies is not even a movie, but it totally should be. It's Daredevil.
Nothing wrong with it I just wish people would strive to demand d better front their product so that we can get more of those gems that Marvel has shown that it has the potential to make.
I think Marvel movies are really good. Especially if you take to account the history of superhero movie genre, it really is as good as you can get. Seriously, what is your problem with them? I mean, I don't like each and every Marvel movie out there, but I don't know any company who does stuff better than they do right now. Maybe you can name me a few...
Арсений Брилёв "Seriously, what is your problem with them?"
I don't have a problem with them. I saw a number of people giving hbomberguy shit for criticizing them, and I just found it...depressing.
"I don't know any company who does stuff better than they do right now."
But that's just it. Right there. The way you phrased that. What COMPANY is making better stuff? I mean, I know movies are products, but people seem a little too comfortable embracing that aspect of them now, more than ever. It's like you're asking me what company makes a better cookie than Nabisco. Well, I mean, if you're limiting your diet to processed foods...? I don't think of movies OR cookies that way.
I don't see how video stores are a factor. Video stores went out of business because the internet is a much better resource for finding movies for home viewing.
Also, while I understand where you're coming from, I think it's a little disingenuous to imply that people are pretending that Marvel's good just because it's the only thing that's placed in front of them. Plenty of people enjoy some or all of the Avengers movies for actual reasons, ones that they could probably explain if asked.
On top of that, they're not the only thing placed in front of anyone. Anyone with an internet connection has greater access to more media than any other time in human history. People aren't gravitating toward the Marvel movies because they have no other options, they gravitate toward the Marvel movies because the Marvel movies, in part or in whole, are the kind of thing they're into.
And, like, it's fine to not be into them, and it's even fine to wish that the people who were into them would dedicate their attention to something you feel is more worthy and under appreciated, but I think a conversation like that will be more productive for everyone involved if you try to understand why people like the movies that you think are a waste of time, instead of just assuming that they've simply "embraced mediocrity."
How many props do you get for one 15 second scene in a video only to never use them again?
Nearing the one year anniversary of this upload. Where's that T2 vid, mate?
pink haired hbomber guy is best hbomber guy
I do love Death Wish 3 lol. I always think of it as a comedy though. When he says "Teeth" to the old couple, it makes me laugh every time. This take on action scenes in general is brilliant.
I wasn't on board with your Marvel argument, but then you threw to a clip of COMMUNITY season 6 and now, exclusively for that, I say you're 100% correct.
Holy shit, I've had an issue with the MCU's action scenes since the first Avengers movie came out, and I could never properly say why. Thank you for finally offering me the answer
that bluescreen joke made me seriously panic and my error screens dont even LOOK like that
Metal Gear Solid 4 (which is basically a movie) has two characters who realize they've been in love for the entire game WHILE WORKING TOGETHER TO SHOOT DOZENS OF BAD GUYS. They come within like, two seconds of boning, then remember there are still more people to shoot.
I was never really confused/jarred by the Black Widow scene, and it seems to me like it *was* character-driven action. Actually several action scenes in the Avengers seem fairly character-driven; the Thor and Loki fights spring to mind.
Nah man, Death Wish 3 is practically an exploitation film, it's supposed to be terrible.. and by terrible I mean amazing.
Didn't the black widow scene, however sloppy, exist entirely informed by character?
Robert Moorhead yeah, my thoughts exactly
ThatDopeChannel it's still atrociously shot.
true.
I am incredibly late but may I ask what the phrase 'informed by character' means? :O (English is my 2nd language :))
I think the shot is put sideways because the camera is taking the view of the old guy who's on the ground after getting a whiff of Scarlett's hair.
1:37 at least Death Wish 3 gave us Charles Bronson's hilarious way of holding a gun.
1:59 now he's casually aiming his gun at a friend lmao
Hello. Stunt fighter, actor, coordinator, and motion-capture director here. It takes so much to make a good action scene. Aside from performers who know what they're doing - acting the fight, adjusting for camera, keeping energy up but being safe through countless takes - you need a coordinator who's good, a DP who can shoot action, and an editor who can cut it. I've done fights where the script just says, "They fight. It's awesome." And that's fine, if the director can get out of the way while the experts do their job. Or better yet, a director like Chad Stahelski (John Wick) will be as adept as anyone on set. The results of the latter speak for themselves.
I've recently rewatched some MCU films and while I didn't really notice what you were talking about in The Avengers, I did notice that Thor has a lot of weird, random Dutch angles. Like, in every other scene. For some reason, Kenneth Branagh even did Dutch angles for many of the establishing shots, and for the life of me I cannot understand why.
The Pirate Bay joke and the 10 films joke were fucking golden.
hahahaah the Seventh Seal and Rashomon accompanied by the entire Shrek and Garfield franchise.
Feeling inspired by Every Frame A Painting? Great channel. One of the best :D
Every Frame a Painting did a video on this a year and a half ago. It's called "Jackie Chan - How to Do Action Comedy." Really recommend watching it.
One action movie I really like of course is Mad Max Fury Road but another I adore is Hot Fuzz, even though it's also a parody. You can really tell they did their homework about what makes action great.
"*sigh* oh cut this part"
My favorite part of every hbomber video
I think it's worth pointing out that Tarantino is on record as being heavily influenced by Sergio Leone. Anybody who's watched the Dollars trilogy, particularly The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, knows how Leone masterfully handled visual storytelling.
The final shootout in TGTBATU is a great example. It's 5 minutes of build up and it's over in all of 8 seconds, but the tension really holds the whole time, starting with a broad bird's eye shot and gradually getting closer and closer as the moment nears. The introduction to Lee Van Cleef is also slow and deliberate, but he just oozes menace as he comes in and starts eating dinner with a guy they both know he's there to kill.
Leone also had a great knack for building terrains out of the faces of his supporting actors and extras, who told the story of how brutal the world is just from their downtrodden, weather-beaten faces. The very first shot of The Good, The Bad and The Ugly is Al Mulock's wild face stepping in front of an untamed wild west plain. Tells you everything in the first 3 seconds. The scene where the captured Confederate soldiers have to sing to cover Tuco's beating is told by the faces alone. Same for the Union Captain who has to order another futile attack on a bridge that he knows will just kill more men under his command.
To say nothing of the building zooms on the eyes of the final three gunfighters.
There's a reason that film is one of my favourites.
How are you not a more popular youtuber! Everything you say or explain is perfectly said that it shows what your trying to explain but at the same time is utterly hilarious!! 😂
The Winter Soldier has the best action scenes in the MCU. And one of the best car chase scenes in movies i've seen in a while. I think putting it alongside trash like The Avengers 1 & 2 is an insult. I was invested in every single action sequence in The Winter Soldier. And there was a point to every single big action scenes. Either the plot got moved ahead or there was a very important character reveal that made each sequence resonate with me. Most importantly, they were shot really well.
2014 wass wild. It had the golden trio, The Martian, The Winter Solider, and Mad Max Fury Road, idk what happened there but yeah, CA:TWS will somehow always stand out among the MCU movies, and you will understand it perfectly even if you have zero previous idea about Marvel or any of the characters.
quit watching when you said death wish 3 was a "bad film," unsubscribed
+Cigarette Smoking Man maybe he thinks exploitation movies suck?
it is a bad movie lmao that's why it's great u nerds
This is obvious satire. I mean, look at the way he complains about the Avengers' shots as implausible, then cuts to them in slow motion, demonstrating the opposite, while he's fawning over Quinlan Thompson. Or how he selectively ignores similar framing between the movie he's praising and the one he's panning.
Exploitation movies can be good, what are you on about.
John Beetles it's almost as if people can have opinions that are different to your own!
If anyone here hasn't seen it already I'd highly recommend Every Frame a Painting's video on Jackie Chan. It's a great breakdown of how he shoots his fight scenes to both be funny but visceral.
I rewatch this just for that shot of Scarlett Johansson reacting to the gun
You should check out the Every Frame a Painting video that explains how Jackie Chan's action feels fluid compared to modern Hollywood cinema. He talks the same things that you mention.
I also love he hipfires that lmg like it wouldn't burn his hands off. Our manly hero, he has no feeling in his hands anymore from shooting so much, truely an aspiring rolemodel.
I thought the same thing! Now granted, there are stories from WWII of soldiers and marines doing what he did with that very same machine gun, but they also had the excuse of having enough adrenaline running through them to kill a horse so they didn’t feel the third degree burns from it. God I hate when filmmakers don’t do their research about guns.
Alright Mr. "Guy" I don't know who you think you are, but Sir Charles Bronson is an American hero and the entire Death Wish series is LITERALLY flawless. If you think you can just slander it's good name like this then you've got another thing coming I tell you what.
Steven Spielberg is great at using humor to inform the action in his films. A good example of this come in this exchange from the boat chase in The Last Crusade:
"Are you crazy? Don't go between them!"
"Go between them? Are you crazy?!"
11:17 THIS MADE ME BURST OUT LAUGHING INSTANTLY VERY ADEQUATELY PROVEN POINT
Rewatched this after watching the first season of Ash Vs. Evil Dead and Captain America: The Winter Soldier in the same week and kept wishing the movie had been directed by Sam Raimi. At least then the scene of a guy yoinking another guy out of a car and throwing him in front of a truck would have been played for laughs, as God intended.
Not a huge Whedon fan, but seeing as in that Black Widow scene from Avengers that it's obvious things have gone sideways for her captors and that immediately afterwards you find that things at that point were sideways to what Natasha was angling for, the sideways angle of the shots at least serve as visual language in keeping with the plot narrative relevant to the scene...
I would love more hour long videos like your fallout 3 one, and you should listen to me specifically because im special.
Your wish has been granted
Death wished three has a Chekhov’s machine gun? Also, if Mr. Wish 3rd actually held it that way, his hand would’ve been burned off in about 30 seconds
I realized this turned into a ramble, but idungivafuk.
"Flippydoo before he can get to his gun"
Does it... matter? Does it matter what the guy was doing besides being staggered? This guy wasn't an important character as far as i remember, so i don't care too much about his plight. Or would it have been more exciting/urgencied if the scene had showed some danger and not just Widow beating the crap out of everyone? I don't think that's the point since, again, this isn't a conflict we're interested in. This whole scene just reintroduced the character and what her deal is. Every character got a scene like that since it's a crossover and all.
The action isn't even that that big a deal here. The only point it served is to show that Widow is a karate jitsu. Which is important to show, but yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if the scene was elongated because of a studio mandate. Though i can't say i'm particularly outraged over losing those 20 seconds.
I recently watched Age of Ultron with director's commentary because i'm a fucking nerd, and i remember one part where Whedon said that action with no point beyond "yay, fighting" is what he does _not_ like to do. And i daresay pretty much all action scenes in those movies serve the story or characters in _some_ way. Even if they're longer than they need to be because things exploding is fun.
"Why is this shot sideways?"
Because conveying what it feels like to do (or have done to you) a spinnydoo. Is my guess.
I think you missed an opportunity by having most of your positive examples not be action scenes. As in a scene centred around action. The only one is Terminator 2, and you don't really talk about it in detail. Like "How does this great scene tick all the boxes."
Speaking of action, you know what i just saw? The tv version of Black Rock Shooter. That has soo much action with absolutely zero point to it. It's not even the main characters doing the fighting! I am completely dumbstruck over how this story came about. And you know what? It was still fucking awesome. Partially because it was very well animated, and partially because the choreography was very fast and inventive.
Getting a little philosophical (with emphasis on a little), is there a big difference between watching action and, say, watching a Michael Jackson music video? Or the ballet. Or... watching a painting. What art can be found in action alone? I don't know. Maybe somebody does.
Wish this vid had been made while I was college for film and could show it to my class. This articulated my thoughts in action movies and scenes so perfectly.
There's a lot to point out in this video, but I want to point out the one thing no one else has mentioned: the reason Black Widow's hurricanrana is filmed sideways is because of the strange reverse nature in which the body is placed in order to execute it. The move itself is very strange, and as a long time wrestling fan, it's still a strange move to watch. The changing of the angle compliments the movements of the character. I think it works just fine, even if the rest of the choreography and camerawork isn't as good.
I'm glad you agree that Godzilla 2014 looks sweet, I know the film has its problems, but like the scene where they drop from the sky, holy shit, It looks so fucking awesome, and the music.
This is the first video of yours I've watched, and I have no idea how you aren't more popular.
I came across your videos recently and I can't get enough. Thank you.
I like that you also brought up the cohen brothers, they're really good editors
A better example of how you can add comedy to a scene just by how it's filmed or subtle acting is in He Never Died. On a pure plot level, it's horror or action. If I told you there was a scene where Henry Rollins drags a man out of his car, tears his throat out with his bare hands, and eats it, you might think it's horrific. In practice, it's hilarious. The reverse is true as well: If I told you there was a scene where he plays an escalating number of Bingo cards, you might think it was funny, rather than tense as fuck.
Also, if you haven't seen it, see He Never Died. It has Henry Rollins in it.
The black widow scene communicates everything the audince needs to know about her - she's clever, hot, and a peak-human fighter. As much as that characterization can get stale, it's communicated well. The camera is weird, but it acompishes the scene's objective of setting up the charecter.
A great example of visual comedy done well is the Three Flavors Cornetto trilogy
1:40 when you see a small asian kid hiding behind a plant and the flashbacks start
Oh man you actually did make a sequel explaining why CGI floorman used to look better than it does now. Nice.
LMAAAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO RASHOMON AND SEVENTH SEAL AMONG THOSE FILMS IS THE BEST JOKE I'VE EVER SEEN.
Maybe Deathwish thought that Checkhov was a great storyteller but didn't know anything but the gun thing.
Lol
I think one big thing with the MCU is that they're kinda trying to make the movies with the look/feel of the comic books: dialogue, plot arcs (especially evolving myth arcs), Avenger friends not showing up unless necessary in solo movies, and it extends into the cinematography. I don't want to say it's a problem, but even as a fan, it's a little hit and miss. A lot of shots feel like they could be laid out in a panel - that side shot on Black Widow you pointed out, the quick zoom to Edward Norton's face whenever he Hulked out, the shot of the newly muscled Steve Rogers stepping out of the Iron Coffin, rapid angle changing (comics actually do this a lot in fight scenes), every movie seems to have at least one "two page spread"- like shot, etc, sometimes it's cool, and other times it's like - this looks pretty warped.
I don't have a huge problem with it, on paper it sounds cool, and I'm usually not thinking enough about the technical stuff in the movie to care, but I get how it could be hard to follow.
JJ Abrams Trek movies do a lot of similar stupid camera shit, too. One thing that bugs me was that there was so much camera flippy spinny shit. I kinda understand trying a 0g effect in space, but EVERY time the camera was moving it would spin or be at a weird angle and it just makes me dizzy. Kinda like how I felt watching that first big fight scene between the Transformers and the Decepticons on the freeway in the first transformer movie.