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Great idea, too freaking bad it's not available for shipping to Sweden.. Not that I really need this, but I would really like to have one just in case should I ever need one! But I'm of the mind that I much, much rather have something I don't need when I don't need it than need it and NOT have it..
We issue 'Cut5'gloves to most of our workers who will encounter sharp edges or knives during their work day. A cut 5 glove is made of soft cloth that is nigh on impossible to cut under normal circumstances. Buy a pair and try it with a new Stanley blade. It feels like the blade is completely blunt. They are NOT stab proof however as the narrow point of the knife can force the fibers apart and slip through. However in a slashing attack they would totally protect your arms. If the rest of the jacket was lined with this material it would add a significant level of protection.
@@stevephillips8719Insulation isn't just about weather protection. In warm or hot weather, such insulation is going to make your armour (and hence you) more uncomfortable, impractical or even dangerous. If you find yourself not wearing your armour for just such reasons, then it's an ineffective armour. It won't protect you if it's at home in the wardrobe. You have to balance risk with practicality.
Interesting to hear how Cut 5 performs. I spend a buck or two to get nicer gloves than work gives me, a couple different brands, varying cut protection. Cut 3 seems to shrug off anything I could do by accident, but I wouldn't trust it against an intentional slice with a disposable knife. Cut 1 got shredded by a metal burr one time, sliced the palm of the glove wide open. I got a wee little scratch half an inch long. Wrecked the glove but I was fine.
I'm a fan of Wiley X and Tac9er kevlar/nomex tactical gloves, with molded plastic knuckles for that little extra spice. You can also pick up kevlar wrist to arm guards if you need extra protection there. Great for ripping out blackberries, and I love the gloves to prevent road rash on my palms when I go longboarding and bite the pavement.
Cool armour. I'm glad you brought up mixing materials like chainmail and Kevlar. But you didn't mention the sleeves. I think something over the forearms would be a great benefit against defensive wounds. Something to protect those veins on the arms. And obviously when we talk about chainmail it doesn't have to be the large heavy duty historical stuff. I was thinking more like a fisherman's glove, or the aprons butchers wear in meat packing plants.
Well the current BEST form of knife resistant, if not proof, is an anti shark suit from Neptunic for example. The one from neptunic for example, is made up of what I believe is 4 or 6 mm in diameter, welded, 304 stainless steel rings. And the best part is, it covers THE ENTIRE body. EXCEPT for the face. Which you can quickly fix by pulling up a polyethylene, polycarbonate, or any other hard plastic mask. But other than that, EVERY SINGLE part of the body is covered. EVERYTHING! Now, of course, the only obvious con, is that you can get such a fantastic suit, for $7500!!!
A newspaper or magazine is a good improvised defence for your forearms as you'll usually be defending against slashes if you're using your forearms to defend
@@DJRockford83 I'm talking about wearing this nice prefab jacket. Not duct taping magazines on my arms. I could also tape a dictionary to my chest, and it could stop a handgun round. As an American, when it comes to buying armor, it's going to be a Kevlar vest. But if I lived in Britian, I would want this product.
If you want that, you can already buy that product made with Kevlar fabric, but it costs a LOT. This product is meant to be a much cheaper alternative and first of all meant to protect you against life threatening stab wounds, and some defensive cuts against your arms and hands are almost never life threatening. Adding cutting protection to the sleeves will increase the price of the product by rather much. At least if you want your sleeves to be rather light, flexible and comfortable. But this is the problem with this product as it is already. It is to bulky, not flexible enough and not covering enough of your upper body against stabbing attacks. They should make it with the thin plates only as the protects enough against almost all kinds of stab attacks. They also should make the thin plates cover the VERY open areas Matt talked about in this video. By doing this would they make a product that is less bulky, lighter and more protective for a decent price. I also think it is pointless to make it like a raincoat or similar product. It would be much better if they just made it as a vest that people can wear under whatever they want and then customers would not need to pay extra for that raincoat or whatever that they really don't want to wear anyway.
I have never heard you go through your resume before Matt, it's refreshing to see someone take something like this as seriously as they should thank you 🍻
I think you did a good job on analyzing the vest and although the knife did penetrate slightly in some tests, you could say that it is good enough if we want to define the goal of the vest is to prevent 2-3 inch or deeper penetration into vital organs and ultimately prevent lethal damage. Side protection is something that I absolutely agree as I see in knife sparring that if two people into grappling range, they will often try to stab each other on the sides. As for head and neck protection, I wonder if it's possible to work around that flaw by plating the sleeves so you can use your forearm essentially as a shield to parry any overhead knife attacks without risking your arms getting cut.
Both sleeves and collar could easily be armored using an aramid fabric like Kevlar. Aramids are very cut resistant but do poorly against stabs, but you're not likely to be stabbed in the arms. The neck, on the other hand, I can see the potential of being either stabbed or cut there so maybe actual plates in the collar might be good. The only down side of that would be that plates would make the collar look too thick and unnatural.
Actually, the current BEST form of knife resistant, if not proof, is an anti shark suit from Neptunic for example. The one from neptunic for example, is made up of what I believe is 4 or 6 mm in diameter, welded, 304 stainless steel rings. And the best part is, it covers THE ENTIRE body. EXCEPT for the face. Which you can quickly fix by pulling up a polyethylene, polycarbonate, or any other hard plastic mask. But other than that, EVERY SINGLE part of the body is covered. EVERYTHING! Now, of course, the only obvious con, is that you can get such a fantastic suit, for $7500!!!
@@tobyrobson2939 I 100% agree with you. It is starting to sound like a commercial from him/her at this point... And he/she has written (copy-pasted) the same comment 4 times at least by now as well...
Really good sponsored content. Spot on with the good points and where the design is lacking. Sides and neck area really important, many serious stabs in that area.
One point would be to consider adding some sort of protection for the forearms as holding your arms out is a natural reaction if attacked and having something a bit better than wrapping your jacket (or historically your cloak) around the arm might be helpful to prevent defensive wounds of that sort.
Actually, the current BEST form of knife resistant, if not proof, is an anti shark suit from Neptunic for example. The one from neptunic for example, is made up of what I believe is 4 or 6 mm in diameter, welded, 304 stainless steel rings. And the best part is, it covers THE ENTIRE body. EXCEPT for the face. Which you can quickly fix by pulling up a polyethylene, polycarbonate, or any other hard plastic mask. But other than that, EVERY SINGLE part of the body is covered. EVERYTHING! Now, of course, the only obvious con, is that you can get such a fantastic suit, for $7500!!!
In general will your forearms for the most part get cuts and not stabs, and there are multiple ways to protect against that, that is both rather light and at the same time very effective. And wrapping your jacket around your forearm in multiple layers, can in reality be very effective, all depending on fabric and thickness of course. It is rather easy to make a jacket that is VERY cut proof and still light and rather soft, but it might cost more than most people will be willing to pay for it as you would most likely make it out of Kevlar. You can use Kevlar to make a good and even a very good anti-stab jacket, but that takes rather much Kevlar, making it cost MUCH more than most would be willing to pay for it. Mostly a product that people would not buy for themselves and more a product that maybe a government would buy to their police officers and so on. The product Matt tested here is meant to be a MUCH cheaper stab-free option and even if I agree with them that protection against cuts to the forearms are not that important, are there obvious problems with this product that they need to fix. To bulky and not protecting enough of the upper body.
A common error is to put your arms out forward like a boxer where they can be slashed to ribbons. You are better keeping your arms in close and throwing strikes from there
I KNEW the foam was going to make a huge difference but wow seeing it tested is still so dang impressive!! I appreciate seeing the testing done with an off-the-shelf kitchen knife, as that is the most likely scenario in real-world UK at least.
The UK Police bullet proof vests that are also rated against knifes and spikes / sringes usually have an internal construction made of layers of laminated kevlar (it restricts movement a LOT compared to non laminated kevlar). And the bullet proof vests that are rated against knifes but not against spikes / sringes, have a layer of MAIL over the kevlar. People don't usually know this, because the mail is extremely light (made of small rings of rust free steel) and is cavered by a layer of foam. On the second hand market in the UK, a vest rated KN1 or KN2 is extrremely cheap, and the MAIL inside is incredebly tough !!!
Quick word of warning, one reason second-hand Kevlar/aramid vests are cheap is that the material loses its structural integrity over time. This also has an impact on the effectiveness of the mail. And of course mail might trigger metal detectors designed to detect weapons. I'm also not convinced by the product in the video. There are high-quality vests on the market that protect against knives (they are not bulletproof). Some of these vest have the option of inserting a plate, which makes them more versatile.
Actually, the current BEST form of knife resistant, if not proof, is an anti shark suit from Neptunic for example. The one from neptunic for example, is made up of what I believe is 4 or 6 mm in diameter, welded, 304 stainless steel rings. And the best part is, it covers THE ENTIRE body. EXCEPT for the face. Which you can quickly fix by pulling up a polyethylene, polycarbonate, or any other hard plastic mask. But other than that, EVERY SINGLE part of the body is covered. EVERYTHING! Now, of course, the only obvious con, is that you can get such a fantastic suit, for $7500!!!
@@AjayBlanco Yes aramid gets worn out over time. If second hand UK police armours are so cheap, is because they sell the ones passed the expiry date... most of them are made out of material that is potentially good for still quite some years if the aramids where not dirrectly exposed to UV light (the ones made in Ireland are made out of various kevlar variants from Dupont, not sure about the few german made ones). I think that companies who sell armours have a tendency to give 5 years expiry dates to sell more stuff. It's funny to see how old vietnam flack jacket (not really designed to be bullet proof) made out of an old version of kevlar are still remarcably protective, and on the other hand, some other stuff (I don't remember if it is spectra or twaron or something else) is really rubish after barely 5 years. Also my aramid fiber bowstrings (fastflight II, so also the same family of aramids), when left out in the sunlight, don't even survive one year. But when well waxed and kept in darkness, they are still decent more than 10 years after. For the mail part, I would still trust it in a hundred years to come, as it is very good quality steel. Also, it is impressive how good the mail is compared to reproduction medieval mail made in India... it is incredebly LIGHTER, more pliable, less noizy to move in, does not rust, and is overrall more resistant. Also : me too, I'm not convinced by the product in the video (it was not clear from my previous comment). 🙂
I'm a security guard, I wear a lesser version of the unplated kevlar lined white shirt version of this armor daily. These would flex, but my clients (hotels & high class restaurants) would object to any visible armor.
“Fashion” armor that also works would be cool. Similar to how the Household Cavalry have cuirasses that are just for show, but could in theory work. Imagine a 3 piece suit, with a cuirass, or a ballgown with pauldrons. I also think modern gambespns would be cool.
The technology looks very promising as it is presumably very light and easy to carry, but definitely agree with your observation regarding the obvious gaps. Stabbing down past the collar bone into the heart is a particular concern. I'd also appreciate some protection along the outside of the forearm for blocking incoming stabs/cuts.
The only thing about this whole project that looks impressive is the stab resistant material itself; the intrlocking plate design as well as the garment made from it are disappointments.
The stabs resistant vests with *steel plates* that go around the SIDE of the body, are a bit bulky but best I found at actually being able to stop harm
Actually, the current BEST form of knife resistant, if not proof, is an anti shark suit from Neptunic for example. The one from neptunic for example, is made up of what I believe is 4 or 6 mm in diameter, welded, 304 stainless steel rings. And the best part is, it covers THE ENTIRE body. EXCEPT for the face. Which you can quickly fix by pulling up a polyethylene, polycarbonate, or any other hard plastic mask. But other than that, EVERY SINGLE part of the body is covered. EVERYTHING! Now, of course, the only obvious con, is that you can get such a fantastic suit, for $7500!!!
@@O.LEO.N yeah that's a bit much for everyday or covert wear ;) The vests you can buy here in UK that actually ARE metal and cover sides and shoulders are about £85 and 1.5mm steel plate, bit bulky and need a larger jacket to hide i wouldn't trust many of the Kevlar vests as they are partial and not backed by any form of plate etc and also have to watch for spurious sellers just selling a "vest" with no plates at all! :(
@@silverbladeTE It's not cumbersome at all nude... when the rings are all that small, then it becomes like a frabric. Cloth. You can move like nothing is there. You can literally just wear it, put something over the shark suit, and then BOOM! Oh, and I also believe that a LOT of people would rather be 100% protected from a stabbing by adding a bit more very thin clothing on top of the shark suit in order to not stand out.
I once saw a German anti-stab vest commercial where the CEO is wearing the product and some random guy just appears with a hammer and a nail and starts hammering the nail in but it wont go. Was terrifying and hilarious at the same time.
I think Bristol Meggit used to make a vest with a layer of modern maille as a stab layer. My old US prison spike vest was just 20-30 layers of Aramid (Kevlar), you could update it with polycarbonate load spreader plates for riots. My UK issue KR3/HG2 MAST (riot) vest was very inflexible. Almost like a cuirass.
Interesting project ! Yes in Germany some special forces use chain mail .( see Sek Kettenhemd) In east Asia the police use U shaped poles or shields against knife attacks. I also think a combination, carbon plates with chain mail is good.
There are several tile patterns that would allow for more flexible arrangements of coverage. Personally I think a double layer of thin plates in a more clever design attached to Kevlar fabric would be best.
Actually, the current BEST form of knife resistant, if not proof, is an anti shark suit from Neptunic for example. The one from neptunic for example, is made up of what I believe is 4 or 6 mm in diameter, welded, 304 stainless steel rings. And the best part is, it covers THE ENTIRE body. EXCEPT for the face. Which you can quickly fix by pulling up a polyethylene, polycarbonate, or any other hard plastic mask. But other than that, EVERY SINGLE part of the body is covered. EVERYTHING! Now, of course, the only obvious con, is that you can get such a fantastic suit, for $7500!!!
@@jwnomad Actually at the moment I was thinking of a patteren that Roger Penrose created. Mathematicians have developed several shaps for covering plainer surfaces. The advantage would be that it might be less detectable and more comfortable.
it seems quite effective. they should make coat that include side cover to. unlike walking around in brigandine or mail this looks practical enough to do so.
I agree with you testing a regular kitchen knife. Armour should be tested against what it's designed to oppose. Sure you can take that long rondel dagger from Tod and you'll probably get through it without too much trouble, but this armour wasn't designed to defend against that kind of weapon!
Nobody's gonna attack you with a rondel dagger but the second most used stabbing implement is sharpened screwdrivers. So testing a stiff square or round sectioned spike is still relevant.
@@Stroggoii Due to the shape and size of the shaft, spikes like that are very different to typical knives, and are harder to protect against. It typically requires an extra mechanism over and above standard stab protection. In all the main international testing standards, spike protection is a separate test and rating for that reason. Ballistic armour may not be rated as stab resistant, stab vests may not be rated as spike or ballistic resistant. But some protection is better than none.
Interesting. I wonder how good the heat dissipation of the armored clothing is? eg. Is it comfortable to wear in warmer temperatures or does it trap heat?
There is no armour in this world that is good at this. Soft body armour (against handguns) isn't breathable. Hard body armour (against rifles) isn't either and it's heavy. The kind mentioned in this video isn't breathable either. Yes, there are those ice/water-plate-backers but those add weight and distribute the weight further from your point of balance. So you'll sweat more.. Wearing armour comes with a free/mandatory "suck it up" card.
Saw your end analysis, well said. Got stabbed quite a few times, guy went for my back and love handle when I was dealing with someone else one of the times.
OH WOW! A sponsored video that wasn't a boot-licking advert. It has been too long since such things have happened anywhere. I may have had negative words with you in person about taking dirty mobile game sponsorships in the past, but you've done this one really well. Good job.
Rondel will go through, pretty sure it would be difficult to for even a US spike rated vest or UK KR3/KR42 to stop one. I’m not saying a Brigandine is better than modern against sharps but having worn both of or extends periods my ASH Corrinzina was way more practical and had better coverage. But that is 2-3 times the price of a modern stab vest.
@@andrewosborne8993 It is hard for any stab vest to pass ice pick test and rondel dagger is basically a slightly wider, more ergonomic version of an ice pick. Common knives stand no chance, and that's the advertised target.
I'm actually quite impressed, especially considering that in most scenarios you're not going to be stabbing from top to bottom in a reverse grip, which is probably anatomically the strongest stabbing technique. If someone was to just stab you more or less horizontally like they mostly do, it's going to be really hard to penetrate the armor.
I'd be interested to see how it holds up while a "Bob" is wearing it. Seems like a standing and dynamic target would have pretty good results. Top down on collar bone is scary, access to the kidneys is scary, glad you're calling that out though.
The suggestion about adding extra "top" and side protection is very good. Not that I'm in the market for something like this but I wouldn't buy one without some top and side protection.
It might be worth mentioning that mail isn't particularly stab resistant either. Better than normal clothing but way worse than more ridged material. Mail can also roll and slide up or down and bunch up when not secured. It also tends to rattle which may or may not be a down side.
bar the tool - as you said its the most common propable weapon - you've given it the worst chance it had and it still never got over an inch of penetration, even on a downward strike on a solid surface. Thats pretty impressive! Considering one wearing it will be moveing, the angle will not be square, the force will not be as big as a downward Rondel punch AND there will be a piece of fabric first - I'd say it's quite good armour!
If you were to run into a crazy person that does one stab and runs away then something like this would be great. However if that crazy person is actually out to hurt you then they aren't going to stab once and after that first stab they'll probably realize that it didn't go through and go after your unprotected spots. That's the terrifying part of it all. I think it gives you a false sense of protection, albeit it's better than nothing but you still need to be really, really careful. Stay safe everyone, avoid strangers and walks late at night.
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For scientific accuracy, you should have control: you should compare it side by side with material that you know is not stab-proof - perhaps it is the hardness of the wood backing that limits the penetration, not the material itself? Perhaps archery foam would be a better backing for such tests? As to making it contour better to the body - why not borrow the idea from brigandine, and make those plates curve along the curves of the body. It might make it more expensive, though...
The hard wood limiting penetration is very good point. If kitchen knife was able to penetrate 1cm, it was probably stopped by wood. Although the hard wood allowed for initial penetration probably.
@@grafknives9544 I was thinking this too, but sinc the penetraation wwent down significantly once the foam was added I'd say it might not have made the knife do much better.
I'll just keep wearing my mail shirt. It has sleeves and goes up to the collar all around. Especially the sleeves are great - you can fend off stabs to the head/neck without fear of getting your arms hurt. Not that I've ever needed that feature yet - fingers crossed it'll stay that way. Also, when someone does notice it it's always a nice conversation starter, inevitably going towards HEMA, Larp and D&D.
Quite interesting! I'll accept 1 cm of blade in my belly, in trade for the attacker's knife getting stuck in my vest. But 't's not going to happen, since I'm far softer than a wooden log. I really don't like the openings on the top of the shoulders and sides. Some neck protection in the raincoat would be good too.
As someone who has been attacked with a knife the choice of blade makes sense. I grew up in an exceptionally bad neighborhood. I’ve been attacked with a paring knife, a steak knife, a chef knife and a box cutter. All cheaply made. Well done sir.
They might consider some kind of cap that can be worn under the hood that at least protects the head and neck. Maybe a balaclava or ski mask, or maybe even a scarf that has an armor insert in it.
Very neat product. They way you went about presenting this is great, but as usual you set up some very fair experiments that were easy for everyone viewing to be able to interpret. Love how quickly we could see what a difference the energy transfer into the armor is once you have a soft backing to absorb some of the blow. Layers people!
Once upon a time I was a cop in the RHKP and we had lots of Vietnamese refugees in camps. They would remove the plexiglass louvres from the toilet windows, melt them, bend them, and then sew them into Levi style "Jean jackets" as body armour. They fashioned spears from the centre wooden tent poles by bashing flat the metal spike, and they fashioned swords from the sides of filing cabinets with melted plastic mugs formed as handles.
If you mean a fencing chest protector, I can answer that: absolutely nothing. The chest protector would offer zero protection. I know from experience from when I was light sparring against an opponent with just such a chest protector and no other chest armour. I was using a HEMA 16th century side sword with a rounded and blunt tip. I thrust at his chest with about 30% force and the blade went right through, encountering barely any resistance. Fortunately, I was immediately aware of what had happened and stopped. A pointed kitchen knife like Matt's that was thrust with any amount of force would go through extremely easily.
@@drzander3378Seriously dude? Don't know what YOUR protector was made from, but when I test MY very own polyethylene or other hard plastic material with a knife, NONE of it passes through. Only slight dents. And we're talking full force here.
I would love to see a extensive comparison video of different armor types for modern antistab purposes! Like comparisons between these carbonfiber plates, layered fabric with kevlar, layered fabric without kevlar, chainmail, japanese "turtle armor" (small hexagonal plates liked with rings often sandwiched between fabric). Historical armour is made to withstand stuff spears, swords and axes not shanks and kitchen knifes so it would be fair to assum that they are made thicker and buliker then modern needs . It would be interesting to see how much you gain with lightweigth materials compared to using thinner steel in chaimail. Would be interesting to see how thinn/light chainmail you could make and still have it effective. Would also be interesting to see how sandwiching a core "hard material" between different types of fabric would change the properties of it (if at all). A colaberation with Todds Workshop again perhaps? 😊
They do to a certain extent one saved my life. I was a correctional officer for 10 years. The stab vest saved me from an assault with a inmate armed with a 6 inch shank.
Okay lets start with a thank you for highlighting this new technology and remaining unbiased. The plates/technology brilliant looks really good, then you showed where the plates are and my first uneducated and limited thought was surly the most common attacks are psycho stabs down and wild swings to the side, so I was quite surprised at the coverage. Definitely a company to watch look forward to seeing what comes next. Secondly please test it against a Rondel dagger... you know for science.
I've seen that people wear chainmail as it is still the best in terms of protection to ease (and subtlety) of carry. Do you have any recommendations in terms of the best wholesale chain in terms of price, fit and protection in the context of wearing it under everyday clothing for protection.
Very interesting. I like how the surface design seems to localise the force. Would definitely seem to reduce impact but would be very effective against cuts. Unfortunately many attacks are overarm, where this wouldn't help. Also many stab attacks seemed to be aimed at the legs these days.
Having the armour tested against the foam on the wood is a lot better, but you need something a bit more solid to split the difference like corkboard, since the foam has more give than your chest. It would be much better if it the plates went a bit higher for protection and cover the sides with at least lighter plates (like you mentioned), although you could always just wear pauldrons for the stabbier neighbourhoods of London. There should definitely be lower arm protection though, as I'm not sure a lot of people are going to like the idea of trying to parry knives with their chest when you're still going to feel the force behind the blows.
I feel like a really good tailor with some data about real stabbings could make this better. It's really boxy - compared to your brigandine, historical plate, ad even to some degree your fencing gear. Someone with an expert grasp of how different materials move on the body might be able to come up with a safer and more comfortable design.
This product is definitely aimed to protect against a standard grab and shank to the torso/belly attack. Forearm protection would be nice for defensive actions/wounds, but I understand the logic of the current design.
By the looks of it, they chose the plate layout on "prison style shanking", ie the strike is coming in low, point up, aimed for the kidneys or gut, but they certainly, as you pointed out left a huge vulnerability with the side being left open.
I had a friend who was a non firearms combat instructor for the military, Green Berets, and Seals mainly. His perspective on armor was that if it couldn't stop an icepick then it wasn't really viable.
I'd like to see these sort of tests conducted with the test material mounted on a heavy boxing bag. That would provide a better simulation for a standing person by providing some grudging give. A heavy bag on the ground would provide a good analog for a prone target against the ground. An armored [semi] soft hat or cap and something like an armored collar hidden in a turtleneck sweater would greatly reduce unprotected areas. Heck, you could even have armored shorts to wear under your trousers. To be somewhat practical, the shorts could be armored just in front.
As you are describing where the jacket is armored, I will point out, and I do not know if you will bring it up, but there would need to be some form of armored shorts because the groin is the next target when the torso is not giving purchase on attacks. Femoral artery, lower intestines and reproductive organs are in that general area.
One imagines that modern armor production companies with a focus on hand weapons could learn a lot from historical examples which were designed with literally thousands of years of experience in pursuing exactly that goal. Off hand, there's probably a good reason why so many Roman armor patterns had reinforced collarbone and shoulder protection.
Great video, Matt. very thorough. A+. I must say the gambeson, modern gauntlet and chainsaw helment and face shield were completed wonderfully by the "wellie" boots . I believe that's what you call them? Great video, good review. Thanks.
Hard plates are effective. Chainmail or mailite needs to be riveted or welded because butted mail (open rings that are linked together with the ends unsecured) can spread with the impact of a stab, rendering the mail ineffective. Butted mail is fine for cosplay, stage theater, television and film but must not be trusted to protect you. Welding or riveting the ends of the rings is extra work, therefore extra cost, but you get what you pay for.
My product feedback: [1] I agree with all your suggestions, especially where criminal stab attacks occur. [2] Not clear how constraining it is to movement, or if it's hot in summer [3] Coverage gaps. This may not really worse than any other armor such as typical bullet body armor. But, especially for the typically fast, multiple stabs situation of knife use, that's a big deal. If it's not full-coverage for neck and side it's of limited use in my view. Being stabbed under the arm, in the neck, ground, or leg are common. [4] I wonder if the same durable plastic could be used for a light-weight more chain mail like material to allow both better flexibility and coverage.
The same gaps are a lot worse ere than on bulletproof armor because knife attacks come from a lot more varied angles; the same coverage that is acceptable or even great for a ballistic vest are incredibly vulnerable when the vest is made for anti-stab (high angles and flanks are relatiely unlikely to take a bullet, but knives regularly go in there) The design is bad; the material is good but is also utilised very poorly; the interlocking of the plates makes the whole thing impractical compared to just using a brigandine type construction.
Covering the neck should be a priority, if I was to wear a self-protection shirt I'd probably take inspiration from Russian and oriental chain in the early modern period, which used a mixture of plates and chain to optimise manoeuvrability, I'd probably sew it between two linen Russian style shirts (so a high collar to fit mail under to protect the neck) so that it would remain breathable. These types of armour typically had plates along the back and front to given strong protection to stationary parts of the body and were chain on the sides and sleeves. There are a number of other possible designs, Byzantine light cavalry once favoured waistcoats with chain sewn to the inside, and the cheapest least time hungry would probably be to just buy a commercial mail coat and throw a tunic over it like medieval people did, they also did that with suits of armour, which opens up possibilities if we feel like bringing some old styles back into fashion. Sewing mail into garments does however seem to be the way to go, rather than these high tech but inconvenient and unreliable commercial experiments.
Actually, the current BEST form of knife resistant, if not proof, is an anti shark suit from Neptunic for example. The one from neptunic for example, is made up of what I believe is 4 or 6 mm in diameter, welded, 304 stainless steel rings. And the best part is, it covers THE ENTIRE body. EXCEPT for the face. Which you can quickly fix by pulling up a polyethylene, polycarbonate, or any other hard plastic mask. But other than that, EVERY SINGLE part of the body is covered. EVERYTHING! Now, of course, the only obvious con, is that you can get such a fantastic suit, for $7500!!!
The neck is a major tradeoff. You're right that it's very important, obviously. But it's also tough to do right. People move their necks a lot, and in a lot of different ways. Now, you might be thinking "oh, that's no problem, chainmail is flexible." The problem is... Well, take a three-inch strip of chainmail, and wrap it around your neck. Now go get something out of the top of the fridge, turn around and put it on the counter, and get something out of the bottom of the fridge. Notice how you now have a mail *collarbone* defense and nothing protecting your neck? Yeah. A material that is flexible enough to be comfortably worn close around the neck in regular life is going to be challenging to keep in place high enough to provide good neck protection. (If it's very light, you can just wrap it around, of course. But you won't get stab protection from those kinds of materials.) There are two basic solutions to this problem. You can wear a helmet and drape your flexible defense from the bottom of the helmet (or alternately, simply extend the back and sides of the helmet far enough to provide some neck protection). Or you can build up some kind of stiff defense from below (this can take a lot of forms: you can see flanges serving this purpose on a lot of plate armors, or many modern EOD suits also have something like this). Both of those work well in appropriate contexts... but neither is appropriate for this garment. It's clearly designed for everyday wear, and it's meant to look relatively normal. You can't get a lot of neck protection within those constraints.
Sides, neck and armpits should be protected at least with some material. What is reasonable to request is some kind of T-shirt, and the collar as a separate products. And obviously these type of protection will leave a mark on the clothes you will use in your day-to-day life.
Love the videos! I kind of want to see a Rondel dagger vs modern armor, or the best applicable medieval equivalents for damaging modern armors in general. Like what medieval weapons are best against kevlar or ceramic plates?
My first thought was that they've just taken a typical, modern ballistic west design as a benchmark, as they usually don't protect the sides. And I also though mail for the gaps...either just metal or perhaps the material they use for the plates would also work as mail
Alternatively, you can buy a hauberk made from butchers mail, AKA mithril. However, there is one major drawback. In butchers mail the rings are so small that you still feel like you got stabbed even if there was no penetration. With plates you don't have to worry about that.
If you're only going to cover one part of the torso for stab protection, the neither the chest nor the back would be the part I'd chose. Those areas are already fairly well protected by bone. The abdomen, on the other hand, is completely vulnerable and not only where I'd want stab protection the most, but where I'd be targeting if I was attacking someone and meant business.
The main advantzage over a modern maile shirt seems to be the ridgid protection- less chance of bruising and the chance of disarming the opponent when they get it stuck.
Fun fact, any form of commercial or functional body armour is a prohibited weapons offence in Australia, as well as any other item carried expressly for the purpose of self-defence, as it is assumed by Australian authorities the intention is to resist police arrest or to attack police. Ordering body armour online can result in being charged with weapons offences upon delivery.
Very interesting test. Nice job. I know it would be rather expensive, and perhaps this product is not available in England, but putting one of these on a ballistic test torso and trying various edged weapons on it would be truly fascinating and possibly yield the most realistic results. When something can flex away from a strike the results can be dramatically different than when it's fully supported by a firm hard object like wood. Nonetheless, good test.
Most stab assaults use a cheap knife or a simple kitchen knife. The chiuce of test tool here is in my opinion the correct one. Hard backing would perhaps be realistic if it was a helmet but the rest of the human body is usually squishy (torso, thighs) or move when force is applied reducing the impact (arms, a non-planted lower leg). The upper chest is somewhat more rigid but has the added natural protection of the ribcage. The lower torso is easier to wound and multiple stabs there can be very fast and deadly. This is also a common wound from knife atracks (as well as defensive wounds on the arms trying to defend this area or the face and neck). This is where this jacket will be most vital to protect. That said, sides and back are also important (prison bum rush stabs are in the back or side, from the blindspot). Neck is more important than chest but if you do get a deep stab in the chest it's usually fatal. So maybe add thin defense there and thick for the abdomen and sides.
Interesting to see your review isn't (yet) linked on the kickstarter. Also thank you for your honest commentary, please note though, there is no such thing as unbiased. Though it helped to know your background relating to this particular review.
I think that a layer of fine mail could significantly improve the protection for the more flexible parts. That's not as shock-absorbent, but would prevent penetration from awkward hits. It could also extend the protected area out from the torso to the abdomen and arms without making everything unbearably bulky (or so I hope). Especially protection against slashing on the forearms would improve your ability to resist an attack without incurring serious injury. P.S.: Dang, he kinda went into it right at the end. But still.
femeral artery hits are fatal and cuts to the arm pits and inner elbows and wrists can lead to tendons being disabled and again arterial wounds, again potentially fatal wounds. Chainmail and gamberson will protect the arms and to a degree the groin, in modern terms a good thick lined wool pea jacket will do very well to protect against those cuts if not the stabs, if worn with than armoured waistcoat it would prove far better than that raincoat
Does the vest float? Or will it pull you under water like an anchor? How flexible is this armor? Can you perform common tasks, pick things up, swim, or grapple while wearing it?
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Good analysis.
I would enjoy backing a project. But I end up never getting the item.
Regardless of which I support.
In America. Knifey issues are not really a thing here.😁
Great idea, too freaking bad it's not available for shipping to Sweden..
Not that I really need this, but I would really like to have one just in case should I ever need one!
But I'm of the mind that I much, much rather have something I don't need when I don't need it than need it and NOT have it..
@@c-w-h I'm Canadian they are an issue here. What color bulletproof school bag is selling best in the elementary schools this year down there?
A jacket that protects against rain and stabbing is the most british invention I've ever heard if.
lacks a device to boil some tea
I have worn soft body armor in warm weather so I am curious whether a concealable vest can be made that wouldn't cook the wearer.
I appreciate that you also show weaknesses and doubts, and not just pure advertising.
And that's why he's one of the best knowledgeable blade channels.
:D
Raid shadow legends
We issue 'Cut5'gloves to most of our workers who will encounter sharp edges or knives during their work day.
A cut 5 glove is made of soft cloth that is nigh on impossible to cut under normal circumstances.
Buy a pair and try it with a new Stanley blade. It feels like the blade is completely blunt.
They are NOT stab proof however as the narrow point of the knife can force the fibers apart and slip through.
However in a slashing attack they would totally protect your arms.
If the rest of the jacket was lined with this material it would add a significant level of protection.
And presumably insulation?
@@tamlandipper29 Kinda, I don't think the point of these jackets is weather protection.
@@stevephillips8719Insulation isn't just about weather protection. In warm or hot weather, such insulation is going to make your armour (and hence you) more uncomfortable, impractical or even dangerous. If you find yourself not wearing your armour for just such reasons, then it's an ineffective armour. It won't protect you if it's at home in the wardrobe. You have to balance risk with practicality.
Interesting to hear how Cut 5 performs. I spend a buck or two to get nicer gloves than work gives me, a couple different brands, varying cut protection. Cut 3 seems to shrug off anything I could do by accident, but I wouldn't trust it against an intentional slice with a disposable knife. Cut 1 got shredded by a metal burr one time, sliced the palm of the glove wide open. I got a wee little scratch half an inch long. Wrecked the glove but I was fine.
I'm a fan of Wiley X and Tac9er kevlar/nomex tactical gloves, with molded plastic knuckles for that little extra spice. You can also pick up kevlar wrist to arm guards if you need extra protection there. Great for ripping out blackberries, and I love the gloves to prevent road rash on my palms when I go longboarding and bite the pavement.
Cool armour. I'm glad you brought up mixing materials like chainmail and Kevlar. But you didn't mention the sleeves. I think something over the forearms would be a great benefit against defensive wounds. Something to protect those veins on the arms. And obviously when we talk about chainmail it doesn't have to be the large heavy duty historical stuff. I was thinking more like a fisherman's glove, or the aprons butchers wear in meat packing plants.
Well the current BEST form of knife resistant, if not proof, is an anti shark suit from Neptunic for example. The one from neptunic for example, is made up of what I believe is 4 or 6 mm in diameter, welded, 304 stainless steel rings. And the best part is, it covers THE ENTIRE body. EXCEPT for the face. Which you can quickly fix by pulling up a polyethylene, polycarbonate, or any other hard plastic mask. But other than that, EVERY SINGLE part of the body is covered. EVERYTHING!
Now, of course, the only obvious con, is that you can get such a fantastic suit, for $7500!!!
German accademic fencers currently use mail over kevlar.
A newspaper or magazine is a good improvised defence for your forearms as you'll usually be defending against slashes if you're using your forearms to defend
@@DJRockford83 I'm talking about wearing this nice prefab jacket. Not duct taping magazines on my arms. I could also tape a dictionary to my chest, and it could stop a handgun round. As an American, when it comes to buying armor, it's going to be a Kevlar vest. But if I lived in Britian, I would want this product.
If you want that, you can already buy that product made with Kevlar fabric, but it costs a LOT.
This product is meant to be a much cheaper alternative and first of all meant to protect you against life threatening stab wounds, and some defensive cuts against your arms and hands are almost never life threatening.
Adding cutting protection to the sleeves will increase the price of the product by rather much.
At least if you want your sleeves to be rather light, flexible and comfortable.
But this is the problem with this product as it is already.
It is to bulky, not flexible enough and not covering enough of your upper body against stabbing attacks.
They should make it with the thin plates only as the protects enough against almost all kinds of stab attacks.
They also should make the thin plates cover the VERY open areas Matt talked about in this video.
By doing this would they make a product that is less bulky, lighter and more protective for a decent price.
I also think it is pointless to make it like a raincoat or similar product.
It would be much better if they just made it as a vest that people can wear under whatever they want and then customers would not need to pay extra for that raincoat or whatever that they really don't want to wear anyway.
I have never heard you go through your resume before Matt, it's refreshing to see someone take something like this as seriously as they should thank you 🍻
Just here to say I absolutely love your outfit when testing outside.
I think you did a good job on analyzing the vest and although the knife did penetrate slightly in some tests, you could say that it is good enough if we want to define the goal of the vest is to prevent 2-3 inch or deeper penetration into vital organs and ultimately prevent lethal damage. Side protection is something that I absolutely agree as I see in knife sparring that if two people into grappling range, they will often try to stab each other on the sides. As for head and neck protection, I wonder if it's possible to work around that flaw by plating the sleeves so you can use your forearm essentially as a shield to parry any overhead knife attacks without risking your arms getting cut.
Both sleeves and collar could easily be armored using an aramid fabric like Kevlar. Aramids are very cut resistant but do poorly against stabs, but you're not likely to be stabbed in the arms. The neck, on the other hand, I can see the potential of being either stabbed or cut there so maybe actual plates in the collar might be good. The only down side of that would be that plates would make the collar look too thick and unnatural.
Actually, the current BEST form of knife resistant, if not proof, is an anti shark suit from Neptunic for example. The one from neptunic for example, is made up of what I believe is 4 or 6 mm in diameter, welded, 304 stainless steel rings. And the best part is, it covers THE ENTIRE body. EXCEPT for the face. Which you can quickly fix by pulling up a polyethylene, polycarbonate, or any other hard plastic mask. But other than that, EVERY SINGLE part of the body is covered. EVERYTHING!
Now, of course, the only obvious con, is that you can get such a fantastic suit, for $7500!!!
@@O.LEO.N third time you've posted this. Give it a rest.
@@tobyrobson2939
I 100% agree with you.
It is starting to sound like a commercial from him/her at this point...
And he/she has written (copy-pasted) the same comment 4 times at least by now as well...
@@O.LEO.N
Are you paid money to copy-past the same comment all over in the comment section?
Really good sponsored content.
Spot on with the good points and where the design is lacking.
Sides and neck area really important, many serious stabs in that area.
One point would be to consider adding some sort of protection for the forearms as holding your arms out is a natural reaction if attacked and having something a bit better than wrapping your jacket (or historically your cloak) around the arm might be helpful to prevent defensive wounds of that sort.
Actually, the current BEST form of knife resistant, if not proof, is an anti shark suit from Neptunic for example. The one from neptunic for example, is made up of what I believe is 4 or 6 mm in diameter, welded, 304 stainless steel rings. And the best part is, it covers THE ENTIRE body. EXCEPT for the face. Which you can quickly fix by pulling up a polyethylene, polycarbonate, or any other hard plastic mask. But other than that, EVERY SINGLE part of the body is covered. EVERYTHING!
Now, of course, the only obvious con, is that you can get such a fantastic suit, for $7500!!!
@@O.LEO.N
And it is not exactly light to wear above the surface...
In general will your forearms for the most part get cuts and not stabs, and there are multiple ways to protect against that, that is both rather light and at the same time very effective.
And wrapping your jacket around your forearm in multiple layers, can in reality be very effective, all depending on fabric and thickness of course.
It is rather easy to make a jacket that is VERY cut proof and still light and rather soft, but it might cost more than most people will be willing to pay for it as you would most likely make it out of Kevlar.
You can use Kevlar to make a good and even a very good anti-stab jacket, but that takes rather much Kevlar, making it cost MUCH more than most would be willing to pay for it.
Mostly a product that people would not buy for themselves and more a product that maybe a government would buy to their police officers and so on.
The product Matt tested here is meant to be a MUCH cheaper stab-free option and even if I agree with them that protection against cuts to the forearms are not that important, are there obvious problems with this product that they need to fix.
To bulky and not protecting enough of the upper body.
HISTORICALLY my cloak? I beg to differ!
A common error is to put your arms out forward like a boxer where they can be slashed to ribbons. You are better keeping your arms in close and throwing strikes from there
I KNEW the foam was going to make a huge difference but wow seeing it tested is still so dang impressive!!
I appreciate seeing the testing done with an off-the-shelf kitchen knife, as that is the most likely scenario in real-world UK at least.
So, I'd imagine hitting bone would have a result lean towards the hard surface. Interesting.
The UK Police bullet proof vests that are also rated against knifes and spikes / sringes usually have an internal construction made of layers of laminated kevlar (it restricts movement a LOT compared to non laminated kevlar). And the bullet proof vests that are rated against knifes but not against spikes / sringes, have a layer of MAIL over the kevlar. People don't usually know this, because the mail is extremely light (made of small rings of rust free steel) and is cavered by a layer of foam.
On the second hand market in the UK, a vest rated KN1 or KN2 is extrremely cheap, and the MAIL inside is incredebly tough !!!
Quick word of warning, one reason second-hand Kevlar/aramid vests are cheap is that the material loses its structural integrity over time. This also has an impact on the effectiveness of the mail. And of course mail might trigger metal detectors designed to detect weapons.
I'm also not convinced by the product in the video. There are high-quality vests on the market that protect against knives (they are not bulletproof).
Some of these vest have the option of inserting a plate, which makes them more versatile.
Actually, the current BEST form of knife resistant, if not proof, is an anti shark suit from Neptunic for example. The one from neptunic for example, is made up of what I believe is 4 or 6 mm in diameter, welded, 304 stainless steel rings. And the best part is, it covers THE ENTIRE body. EXCEPT for the face. Which you can quickly fix by pulling up a polyethylene, polycarbonate, or any other hard plastic mask. But other than that, EVERY SINGLE part of the body is covered. EVERYTHING!
Now, of course, the only obvious con, is that you can get such a fantastic suit, for $7500!!!
@@AjayBlanco Yes aramid gets worn out over time.
If second hand UK police armours are so cheap, is because they sell the ones passed the expiry date... most of them are made out of material that is potentially good for still quite some years if the aramids where not dirrectly exposed to UV light (the ones made in Ireland are made out of various kevlar variants from Dupont, not sure about the few german made ones). I think that companies who sell armours have a tendency to give 5 years expiry dates to sell more stuff.
It's funny to see how old vietnam flack jacket (not really designed to be bullet proof) made out of an old version of kevlar are still remarcably protective, and on the other hand, some other stuff (I don't remember if it is spectra or twaron or something else) is really rubish after barely 5 years.
Also my aramid fiber bowstrings (fastflight II, so also the same family of aramids), when left out in the sunlight, don't even survive one year. But when well waxed and kept in darkness, they are still decent more than 10 years after.
For the mail part, I would still trust it in a hundred years to come, as it is very good quality steel.
Also, it is impressive how good the mail is compared to reproduction medieval mail made in India... it is incredebly LIGHTER, more pliable, less noizy to move in, does not rust, and is overrall more resistant.
Also : me too, I'm not convinced by the product in the video (it was not clear from my previous comment). 🙂
@@O.LEO.N 😂 it would be quite a fashion statement to strall down the street entirely covered up in an anti shark suit !
*Syringes* has a "y."
I'm a security guard, I wear a lesser version of the unplated kevlar lined white shirt version of this armor daily. These would flex, but my clients (hotels & high class restaurants) would object to any visible armor.
“Fashion” armor that also works would be cool. Similar to how the Household Cavalry have cuirasses that are just for show, but could in theory work.
Imagine a 3 piece suit, with a cuirass, or a ballgown with pauldrons.
I also think modern gambespns would be cool.
I doubt that a cuirass will ever be in style. And there are modern gambeson.
@@flyboymike111357You mean full sleeved ones that are functional or not?
I have actually worn a gambeson to work as a winter coat. I bought it new and needed to wear it in, yet people thought it was for motorcycling.
Petition for Matt Easton to be in the next Kingsmen / John Wick / Jason Bourne / any new action movie.
YESSS!
I second that motion!
Gotta play the Q character, giving main man the stats on his gear
John Wick has gotta have Ian McCollum, tbf.
Matt as Merlin in the Kingsman movies would be perfect!
The technology looks very promising as it is presumably very light and easy to carry, but definitely agree with your observation regarding the obvious gaps. Stabbing down past the collar bone into the heart is a particular concern. I'd also appreciate some protection along the outside of the forearm for blocking incoming stabs/cuts.
The only thing about this whole project that looks impressive is the stab resistant material itself; the intrlocking plate design as well as the garment made from it are disappointments.
The stabs resistant vests with *steel plates* that go around the SIDE of the body, are a bit bulky but best I found at actually being able to stop harm
Actually, the current BEST form of knife resistant, if not proof, is an anti shark suit from Neptunic for example. The one from neptunic for example, is made up of what I believe is 4 or 6 mm in diameter, welded, 304 stainless steel rings. And the best part is, it covers THE ENTIRE body. EXCEPT for the face. Which you can quickly fix by pulling up a polyethylene, polycarbonate, or any other hard plastic mask. But other than that, EVERY SINGLE part of the body is covered. EVERYTHING!
Now, of course, the only obvious con, is that you can get such a fantastic suit, for $7500!!!
@@O.LEO.N yeah that's a bit much for everyday or covert wear ;)
The vests you can buy here in UK that actually ARE metal and cover sides and shoulders are about £85 and 1.5mm steel plate, bit bulky and need a larger jacket to hide
i wouldn't trust many of the Kevlar vests as they are partial and not backed by any form of plate etc
and also have to watch for spurious sellers just selling a "vest" with no plates at all! :(
@@silverbladeTE It's not cumbersome at all nude... when the rings are all that small, then it becomes like a frabric. Cloth. You can move like nothing is there. You can literally just wear it, put something over the shark suit, and then BOOM!
Oh, and I also believe that a LOT of people would rather be 100% protected from a stabbing by adding a bit more very thin clothing on top of the shark suit in order to not stand out.
I once saw a German anti-stab vest commercial where the CEO is wearing the product and some random guy just appears with a hammer and a nail and starts hammering the nail in but it wont go. Was terrifying and hilarious at the same time.
I think Bristol Meggit used to make a vest with a layer of modern maille as a stab layer. My old US prison spike vest was just 20-30 layers of Aramid (Kevlar), you could update it with polycarbonate load spreader plates for riots. My UK issue KR3/HG2 MAST (riot) vest was very inflexible. Almost like a cuirass.
Interesting project !
Yes in Germany some special forces use chain mail .( see Sek Kettenhemd)
In east Asia the police use U shaped poles or shields against knife attacks.
I also think a combination, carbon plates with chain mail is good.
There are several tile patterns that would allow for more flexible arrangements of coverage. Personally I think a double layer of thin plates in a more clever design attached to Kevlar fabric would be best.
Pretty much what I was thinking in my own comment
What kind of hexagon would you suggest?
Actually, the current BEST form of knife resistant, if not proof, is an anti shark suit from Neptunic for example. The one from neptunic for example, is made up of what I believe is 4 or 6 mm in diameter, welded, 304 stainless steel rings. And the best part is, it covers THE ENTIRE body. EXCEPT for the face. Which you can quickly fix by pulling up a polyethylene, polycarbonate, or any other hard plastic mask. But other than that, EVERY SINGLE part of the body is covered. EVERYTHING!
Now, of course, the only obvious con, is that you can get such a fantastic suit, for $7500!!!
@@jwnomad Actually at the moment I was thinking of a patteren that Roger Penrose created. Mathematicians have developed several shaps for covering plainer surfaces. The advantage would be that it might be less detectable and more comfortable.
@@O.LEO.N I've used stainless steel gloves for cleaning fish. The carbon composite tiles would be substantially cheaper and lighter.
it seems quite effective. they should make coat that include side cover to. unlike walking around in brigandine or mail this looks practical enough to do so.
I agree with you testing a regular kitchen knife.
Armour should be tested against what it's designed to oppose.
Sure you can take that long rondel dagger from Tod and you'll probably get through it without too much trouble, but this armour wasn't designed to defend against that kind of weapon!
Nobody's gonna attack you with a rondel dagger but the second most used stabbing implement is sharpened screwdrivers. So testing a stiff square or round sectioned spike is still relevant.
@@Stroggoii Yeah, I also wanted to see tested a sharpened screwdriver.
Ice picks aren't an uncommon weapon or a sharpened screwdriver as others noted. I'd like to see a mix of kitchen knives and spike type weapons.
@@Stroggoii Due to the shape and size of the shaft, spikes like that are very different to typical knives, and are harder to protect against. It typically requires an extra mechanism over and above standard stab protection. In all the main international testing standards, spike protection is a separate test and rating for that reason. Ballistic armour may not be rated as stab resistant, stab vests may not be rated as spike or ballistic resistant. But some protection is better than none.
Interesting. I wonder how good the heat dissipation of the armored clothing is? eg. Is it comfortable to wear in warmer temperatures or does it trap heat?
If it's waterproof, it'll trap heat. If you're in a hotter climate, get the vest and ask them to add a bit more coverage.
There is no armour in this world that is good at this.
Soft body armour (against handguns) isn't breathable.
Hard body armour (against rifles) isn't either and it's heavy.
The kind mentioned in this video isn't breathable either.
Yes, there are those ice/water-plate-backers but those add weight and distribute the weight further from your point of balance.
So you'll sweat more..
Wearing armour comes with a free/mandatory "suck it up" card.
Saw your end analysis, well said. Got stabbed quite a few times, guy went for my back and love handle when I was dealing with someone else one of the times.
I think that is a pretty positive outcome for the product, side protection added and its a magnificent product.
OH WOW! A sponsored video that wasn't a boot-licking advert.
It has been too long since such things have happened anywhere. I may have had negative words with you in person about taking dirty mobile game sponsorships in the past, but you've done this one really well. Good job.
Lol, love your ppe.
And for everyone who doesn't know what ppe means, that's short for personal protection equipment.
Curious to see what a rondel dagger would do...
and a halfsworded Estock
Rondel will go through, pretty sure it would be difficult to for even a US spike rated vest or UK KR3/KR42 to stop one.
I’m not saying a Brigandine is better than modern against sharps but having worn both of or extends periods my ASH Corrinzina was way more practical and had better coverage. But that is 2-3 times the price of a modern stab vest.
Could be fun to watch, but I VERY much doubt some thugs walk around with rondel daggers ready to attack you with.
Ditto
@@andrewosborne8993 It is hard for any stab vest to pass ice pick test and rondel dagger is basically a slightly wider, more ergonomic version of an ice pick.
Common knives stand no chance, and that's the advertised target.
Might want to get some of the neck covered while at it. The big veins there are really vulnerable.
I'm actually quite impressed, especially considering that in most scenarios you're not going to be stabbing from top to bottom in a reverse grip, which is probably anatomically the strongest stabbing technique. If someone was to just stab you more or less horizontally like they mostly do, it's going to be really hard to penetrate the armor.
I'd be interested to see how it holds up while a "Bob" is wearing it. Seems like a standing and dynamic target would have pretty good results.
Top down on collar bone is scary, access to the kidneys is scary, glad you're calling that out though.
The suggestion about adding extra "top" and side protection is very good. Not that I'm in the market for something like this but I wouldn't buy one without some top and side protection.
It might be worth mentioning that mail isn't particularly stab resistant either. Better than normal clothing but way worse than more ridged material.
Mail can also roll and slide up or down and bunch up when not secured.
It also tends to rattle which may or may not be a down side.
Love to see the use of personal safety equipment while testing.
bar the tool - as you said its the most common propable weapon - you've given it the worst chance it had and it still never got over an inch of penetration, even on a downward strike on a solid surface. Thats pretty impressive! Considering one wearing it will be moveing, the angle will not be square, the force will not be as big as a downward Rondel punch AND there will be a piece of fabric first - I'd say it's quite good armour!
If you were to run into a crazy person that does one stab and runs away then something like this would be great. However if that crazy person is actually out to hurt you then they aren't going to stab once and after that first stab they'll probably realize that it didn't go through and go after your unprotected spots. That's the terrifying part of it all. I think it gives you a false sense of protection, albeit it's better than nothing but you still need to be really, really careful. Stay safe everyone, avoid strangers and walks late at night.
For scientific accuracy, you should have control: you should compare it side by side with material that you know is not stab-proof - perhaps it is the hardness of the wood backing that limits the penetration, not the material itself? Perhaps archery foam would be a better backing for such tests?
As to making it contour better to the body - why not borrow the idea from brigandine, and make those plates curve along the curves of the body. It might make it more expensive, though...
The hard wood limiting penetration is very good point. If kitchen knife was able to penetrate 1cm, it was probably stopped by wood. Although the hard wood allowed for initial penetration probably.
@@grafknives9544 I was thinking this too, but sinc the penetraation wwent down significantly once the foam was added I'd say it might not have made the knife do much better.
I'll just keep wearing my mail shirt. It has sleeves and goes up to the collar all around.
Especially the sleeves are great - you can fend off stabs to the head/neck without fear of getting your arms hurt. Not that I've ever needed that feature yet - fingers crossed it'll stay that way.
Also, when someone does notice it it's always a nice conversation starter, inevitably going towards HEMA, Larp and D&D.
If it was an undershirt, you could after being stabbed, pull your coat asside and say "Mitherel." To your concerned friemds.
‘but its worth was that of London Shire and everything in it…’
Quite interesting! I'll accept 1 cm of blade in my belly, in trade for the attacker's knife getting stuck in my vest. But 't's not going to happen, since I'm far softer than a wooden log. I really don't like the openings on the top of the shoulders and sides. Some neck protection in the raincoat would be good too.
Lots of your videos are good, but given your experience and qualifications I think this is almost uniquely valuable.
As someone who has been attacked with a knife the choice of blade makes sense. I grew up in an exceptionally bad neighborhood. I’ve been attacked with a paring knife, a steak knife, a chef knife and a box cutter. All cheaply made. Well done sir.
They might consider some kind of cap that can be worn under the hood that at least protects the head and neck. Maybe a balaclava or ski mask, or maybe even a scarf that has an armor insert in it.
Matt being from London area makes this so much better lol
Great vid. Here in the us we see sharpened screwdrivers used in stabbings. How would the plates hold up against really rigid stabbing tool?
I was thinking the same thing, but my guess is probably better than mail
Very neat product. They way you went about presenting this is great, but as usual you set up some very fair experiments that were easy for everyone viewing to be able to interpret. Love how quickly we could see what a difference the energy transfer into the armor is once you have a soft backing to absorb some of the blow.
Layers people!
Ex CSO here, In my experience it was teenagers armed with steak knives.
Cool concept. But wearing this in a humid climate would be a nightmare!
Ah the most defensive of hand protection, the famed red dragon glove! (man are those things ill fitting for me at the best of times)
Once upon a time I was a cop in the RHKP and we had lots of Vietnamese refugees in camps. They would remove the plexiglass louvres from the toilet windows, melt them, bend them, and then sew them into Levi style "Jean jackets" as body armour. They fashioned spears from the centre wooden tent poles by bashing flat the metal spike, and they fashioned swords from the sides of filing cabinets with melted plastic mugs formed as handles.
A very, very useful view into modern protection and materials. Thank You, Matt 👍
Carbon fibre, can be cut
But is strong with tension and compression, and is used in racing cars and militry aircraft.
Hope it helps
This now makes me curious what say a plastic chest protector we wear under our fencing jackets would do against a knife stab like that.
If you mean a fencing chest protector, I can answer that: absolutely nothing. The chest protector would offer zero protection. I know from experience from when I was light sparring against an opponent with just such a chest protector and no other chest armour. I was using a HEMA 16th century side sword with a rounded and blunt tip. I thrust at his chest with about 30% force and the blade went right through, encountering barely any resistance. Fortunately, I was immediately aware of what had happened and stopped. A pointed kitchen knife like Matt's that was thrust with any amount of force would go through extremely easily.
@@drzander3378Seriously dude? Don't know what YOUR protector was made from, but when I test MY very own polyethylene or other hard plastic material with a knife, NONE of it passes through. Only slight dents. And we're talking full force here.
Much respect for your integrity Matt
I would love to see a extensive comparison video of different armor types for modern antistab purposes!
Like comparisons between these carbonfiber plates, layered fabric with kevlar, layered fabric without kevlar, chainmail, japanese "turtle armor" (small hexagonal plates liked with rings often sandwiched between fabric).
Historical armour is made to withstand stuff spears, swords and axes not shanks and kitchen knifes so it would be fair to assum that they are made thicker and buliker then modern needs . It would be interesting to see how much you gain with lightweigth materials compared to using thinner steel in chaimail. Would be interesting to see how thinn/light chainmail you could make and still have it effective.
Would also be interesting to see how sandwiching a core "hard material" between different types of fabric would change the properties of it (if at all).
A colaberation with Todds Workshop again perhaps? 😊
I like how clearly Matt differentiates. :)
Must have dozed off there. Didn’t catch the calculus section… 😁
I’ll just get my coat...
@@MarkHarrisonBNE Ye forgot your hat, Sir.
So basically, it's going to prevent a stab, but leave a bruise. A worthwhile trade! I wonder how much the jacket weighs?
Great test, Matt. Well done.
They do to a certain extent one saved my life. I was a correctional officer for 10 years. The stab vest saved me from an assault with a inmate armed with a 6 inch shank.
Okay lets start with a thank you for highlighting this new technology and remaining unbiased.
The plates/technology brilliant looks really good, then you showed where the plates are and my first uneducated and limited thought was surly the most common attacks are psycho stabs down and wild swings to the side, so I was quite surprised at the coverage. Definitely a company to watch look forward to seeing what comes next.
Secondly please test it against a Rondel dagger... you know for science.
Straightforward and simple testing. With a normal sized human performing an expected overhand hit. Reasonable test method.
I've seen that people wear chainmail as it is still the best in terms of protection to ease (and subtlety) of carry. Do you have any recommendations in terms of the best wholesale chain in terms of price, fit and protection in the context of wearing it under everyday clothing for protection.
"Cutting edge carbon fiber armor."
They might want to rewrite that phrase.
That was pretty cool! I wasn't expecting it would be so resistant!
Very interesting. I like how the surface design seems to localise the force. Would definitely seem to reduce impact but would be very effective against cuts. Unfortunately many attacks are overarm, where this wouldn't help. Also many stab attacks seemed to be aimed at the legs these days.
Having the armour tested against the foam on the wood is a lot better, but you need something a bit more solid to split the difference like corkboard, since the foam has more give than your chest. It would be much better if it the plates went a bit higher for protection and cover the sides with at least lighter plates (like you mentioned), although you could always just wear pauldrons for the stabbier neighbourhoods of London. There should definitely be lower arm protection though, as I'm not sure a lot of people are going to like the idea of trying to parry knives with their chest when you're still going to feel the force behind the blows.
I feel like a really good tailor with some data about real stabbings could make this better. It's really boxy - compared to your brigandine, historical plate, ad even to some degree your fencing gear. Someone with an expert grasp of how different materials move on the body might be able to come up with a safer and more comfortable design.
This product is definitely aimed to protect against a standard grab and shank to the torso/belly attack. Forearm protection would be nice for defensive actions/wounds, but I understand the logic of the current design.
By the looks of it, they chose the plate layout on "prison style shanking", ie the strike is coming in low, point up, aimed for the kidneys or gut, but they certainly, as you pointed out left a huge vulnerability with the side being left open.
I had a friend who was a non firearms combat instructor for the military, Green Berets, and Seals mainly. His perspective on armor was that if it couldn't stop an icepick then it wasn't really viable.
I'd like to see these sort of tests conducted with the test material mounted on a heavy boxing bag. That would provide a better simulation for a standing person by providing some grudging give. A heavy bag on the ground would provide a good analog for a prone target against the ground.
An armored [semi] soft hat or cap and something like an armored collar hidden in a turtleneck sweater would greatly reduce unprotected areas. Heck, you could even have armored shorts to wear under your trousers. To be somewhat practical, the shorts could be armored just in front.
As you are describing where the jacket is armored, I will point out, and I do not know if you will bring it up, but there would need to be some form of armored shorts because the groin is the next target when the torso is not giving purchase on attacks. Femoral artery, lower intestines and reproductive organs are in that general area.
The knife getting stuck looks like a bonus as you may disarm your opponent.
One imagines that modern armor production companies with a focus on hand weapons could learn a lot from historical examples which were designed with literally thousands of years of experience in pursuing exactly that goal. Off hand, there's probably a good reason why so many Roman armor patterns had reinforced collarbone and shoulder protection.
Great video, Matt. very thorough. A+.
I must say the gambeson, modern gauntlet and chainsaw helment and face shield were completed wonderfully by the "wellie" boots . I believe that's what you call them?
Great video, good review. Thanks.
I've also known of loggers using chainmail on their lower legs and feet to protect themselves against poorly aimed cuts or accidents.
Hard plates are effective. Chainmail or mailite needs to be riveted or welded because butted mail (open rings that are linked together with the ends unsecured) can spread with the impact of a stab, rendering the mail ineffective. Butted mail is fine for cosplay, stage theater, television and film but must not be trusted to protect you. Welding or riveting the ends of the rings is extra work, therefore extra cost, but you get what you pay for.
My product feedback: [1] I agree with all your suggestions, especially where criminal stab attacks occur. [2] Not clear how constraining it is to movement, or if it's hot in summer [3] Coverage gaps. This may not really worse than any other armor such as typical bullet body armor. But, especially for the typically fast, multiple stabs situation of knife use, that's a big deal. If it's not full-coverage for neck and side it's of limited use in my view. Being stabbed under the arm, in the neck, ground, or leg are common. [4] I wonder if the same durable plastic could be used for a light-weight more chain mail like material to allow both better flexibility and coverage.
The same gaps are a lot worse ere than on bulletproof armor because knife attacks come from a lot more varied angles; the same coverage that is acceptable or even great for a ballistic vest are incredibly vulnerable when the vest is made for anti-stab (high angles and flanks are relatiely unlikely to take a bullet, but knives regularly go in there)
The design is bad; the material is good but is also utilised very poorly; the interlocking of the plates makes the whole thing impractical compared to just using a brigandine type construction.
Taking hints from ballistic plate carriers modularity is the way to go. Additional plates should be available to attach to the base vest.
Covering the neck should be a priority, if I was to wear a self-protection shirt I'd probably take inspiration from Russian and oriental chain in the early modern period, which used a mixture of plates and chain to optimise manoeuvrability, I'd probably sew it between two linen Russian style shirts (so a high collar to fit mail under to protect the neck) so that it would remain breathable. These types of armour typically had plates along the back and front to given strong protection to stationary parts of the body and were chain on the sides and sleeves.
There are a number of other possible designs, Byzantine light cavalry once favoured waistcoats with chain sewn to the inside, and the cheapest least time hungry would probably be to just buy a commercial mail coat and throw a tunic over it like medieval people did, they also did that with suits of armour, which opens up possibilities if we feel like bringing some old styles back into fashion.
Sewing mail into garments does however seem to be the way to go, rather than these high tech but inconvenient and unreliable commercial experiments.
Actually, the current BEST form of knife resistant, if not proof, is an anti shark suit from Neptunic for example. The one from neptunic for example, is made up of what I believe is 4 or 6 mm in diameter, welded, 304 stainless steel rings. And the best part is, it covers THE ENTIRE body. EXCEPT for the face. Which you can quickly fix by pulling up a polyethylene, polycarbonate, or any other hard plastic mask. But other than that, EVERY SINGLE part of the body is covered. EVERYTHING!
Now, of course, the only obvious con, is that you can get such a fantastic suit, for $7500!!!
The neck is a major tradeoff. You're right that it's very important, obviously. But it's also tough to do right. People move their necks a lot, and in a lot of different ways. Now, you might be thinking "oh, that's no problem, chainmail is flexible." The problem is... Well, take a three-inch strip of chainmail, and wrap it around your neck. Now go get something out of the top of the fridge, turn around and put it on the counter, and get something out of the bottom of the fridge. Notice how you now have a mail *collarbone* defense and nothing protecting your neck? Yeah. A material that is flexible enough to be comfortably worn close around the neck in regular life is going to be challenging to keep in place high enough to provide good neck protection. (If it's very light, you can just wrap it around, of course. But you won't get stab protection from those kinds of materials.)
There are two basic solutions to this problem. You can wear a helmet and drape your flexible defense from the bottom of the helmet (or alternately, simply extend the back and sides of the helmet far enough to provide some neck protection). Or you can build up some kind of stiff defense from below (this can take a lot of forms: you can see flanges serving this purpose on a lot of plate armors, or many modern EOD suits also have something like this). Both of those work well in appropriate contexts... but neither is appropriate for this garment. It's clearly designed for everyday wear, and it's meant to look relatively normal. You can't get a lot of neck protection within those constraints.
Excellent video, and would you consider doing another showing mobility while wearing it?(bending down, getting up from prone, etc)
Sides, neck and armpits should be protected at least with some material.
What is reasonable to request is some kind of T-shirt, and the collar as a separate products.
And obviously these type of protection will leave a mark on the clothes you will use in your day-to-day life.
I got a fault message at first and got worried the video had gotten zapped, but nope watching it now!
A suggestion I have would be to have more, smaller plates that make up the entire vest with a cloth layer over them, like a historical brigandine.
Matt looking like an RPG character equipping whatever armor pieces have the best stats
Love the videos! I kind of want to see a Rondel dagger vs modern armor, or the best applicable medieval equivalents for damaging modern armors in general. Like what medieval weapons are best against kevlar or ceramic plates?
My first thought was that they've just taken a typical, modern ballistic west design as a benchmark, as they usually don't protect the sides. And I also though mail for the gaps...either just metal or perhaps the material they use for the plates would also work as mail
The tip can only penetrate as deep as the foam is. It needs to be tested with thick foam.
Alternatively, you can buy a hauberk made from butchers mail, AKA mithril. However, there is one major drawback. In butchers mail the rings are so small that you still feel like you got stabbed even if there was no penetration. With plates you don't have to worry about that.
If I had to guess, I would say that the gaps down the sides are probably there to allow them to use the same sets of plate for different sizes.
If you're only going to cover one part of the torso for stab protection, the neither the chest nor the back would be the part I'd chose. Those areas are already fairly well protected by bone. The abdomen, on the other hand, is completely vulnerable and not only where I'd want stab protection the most, but where I'd be targeting if I was attacking someone and meant business.
The main advantzage over a modern maile shirt seems to be the ridgid protection- less chance of bruising and the chance of disarming the opponent when they get it stuck.
From what I've seen woven ripstop nylon like 4,000 denier or higher with some coating treatment on there usually is pretty good for anti-stab
Fun fact, any form of commercial or functional body armour is a prohibited weapons offence in Australia, as well as any other item carried expressly for the purpose of self-defence, as it is assumed by Australian authorities the intention is to resist police arrest or to attack police. Ordering body armour online can result in being charged with weapons offences upon delivery.
Very interesting test. Nice job. I know it would be rather expensive, and perhaps this product is not available in England, but putting one of these on a ballistic test torso and trying various edged weapons on it would be truly fascinating and possibly yield the most realistic results. When something can flex away from a strike the results can be dramatically different than when it's fully supported by a firm hard object like wood. Nonetheless, good test.
Most stab assaults use a cheap knife or a simple kitchen knife. The chiuce of test tool here is in my opinion the correct one.
Hard backing would perhaps be realistic if it was a helmet but the rest of the human body is usually squishy (torso, thighs) or move when force is applied reducing the impact (arms, a non-planted lower leg).
The upper chest is somewhat more rigid but has the added natural protection of the ribcage.
The lower torso is easier to wound and multiple stabs there can be very fast and deadly. This is also a common wound from knife atracks (as well as defensive wounds on the arms trying to defend this area or the face and neck).
This is where this jacket will be most vital to protect. That said, sides and back are also important (prison bum rush stabs are in the back or side, from the blindspot).
Neck is more important than chest but if you do get a deep stab in the chest it's usually fatal. So maybe add thin defense there and thick for the abdomen and sides.
Interesting to see your review isn't (yet) linked on the kickstarter.
Also thank you for your honest commentary, please note though, there is no such thing as unbiased. Though it helped to know your background relating to this particular review.
I think that a layer of fine mail could significantly improve the protection for the more flexible parts.
That's not as shock-absorbent, but would prevent penetration from awkward hits. It could also extend the protected area out from the torso to the abdomen and arms without making everything unbearably bulky (or so I hope).
Especially protection against slashing on the forearms would improve your ability to resist an attack without incurring serious injury.
P.S.: Dang, he kinda went into it right at the end. But still.
femeral artery hits are fatal and cuts to the arm pits and inner elbows and wrists can lead to tendons being disabled and again arterial wounds, again potentially fatal wounds. Chainmail and gamberson will protect the arms and to a degree the groin, in modern terms a good thick lined wool pea jacket will do very well to protect against those cuts if not the stabs, if worn with than armoured waistcoat it would prove far better than that raincoat
Does the vest float? Or will it pull you under water like an anchor?
How flexible is this armor? Can you perform common tasks, pick things up, swim, or grapple while wearing it?