James O'Brien reacts to 'unbelievable' findings in the final Grenfell report | LBC
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- James O'Brien reacts as the Grenfell Report finds ‘systemic dishonesty’ and ‘decades of failure’.
He said: 'There will be an article saying, 'It's awful that people aren't proud of British history anymore', well here's some British history: Grenfell Tower, Hillsborough, the Post Office...'
It comes after the long-awaited conclusion of the inquiry has found there was a “complacent and defensive attitude to fire safety” within government, with ministers repeatedly failing to act on warnings about the dangers of the flammable cladding.
72 people were killed in the fire in London’s North Kensington in June 2017.
The inquiry found that organisations who made and sold the products, used on Grenfell Tower, were “deliberately dishonest”, with one firm - Celotex - said to have manipulated a test on its insulation to “mislead the market”.
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I was shocked to see MPs rushing out of the chamber to avoid listening to the report on the disaster both TORIES and LABOUR MPs leaving in droves . Imagine the disrespect felt by those relatives on seeing this appalling behaviour.
The system is designed to protect these scumbags.
If you catch me speeding it wasn't me - I identify as a limited company you see - let's faff about with corporate waffle for 10 years until it blows over
Absolutely correct
@nevarran the system is designed to protect the foreigners, which is why that's what's happening.
@@daftwod
It was foreigners that we're killed in the fire.....daftwood
@@daftwodit's designed to protect the businessmen in charge.
This country is not the country I remember from my youth. No accountability, business in charge through stealth manipulation, the ordinary citizen suffering as the fat cats get richer
When did it change in your opinion 😊
Which country?
I’m not sure seems like exactly the county I remember from my youth.
What about the infected blood scandal, private landlords and many other scandals!?
You had one brief period of getting better. But you are back to your normal self. Read a history book or two!
Or just read Charles Dickens!
No idea what past you're talking about. Maybe the Mandela effect is real and you came from another dimension?
These corporate criminals must be prosecuted and justice must be served!
Do not hold your breath
That simply won’t happen. These people seem to be above the law. Absolutely outrageous.,
@@DerekIngram-u4e Politicians, the Establishment, billionaire media tycoons all have a finger in the pie, so you are right these people are above the law because they control the systems that makes the world go round - all of them!
It'll never happen to big business. They end lives and pay fines and move on. In America subway the fast food store was caught using yoga mat stuffing in the bread to cut costs on bread. Without a doubt that gave thousands of people cancer. A small business owner would get life in prison but a big corporation paid fines and moved on. I ate the bread one day in high school and said this tastes like cardboard and told my friends not to eat it and never went back. A decade later I was proven correct.
No chance, they are too busy blaming immigrants.
As someone who is simultaneously (and very proudly) a scouser, a Liverpool fan, and someone who is of the sociopolotical left, I see staggering similarities between Grenfell and Hillsborough. So much so that I was going to write this comment *before* I even got to the stage of this video where James mentioned it himself.
All the hallmarks are the same. Innocent lives lost. Their value immediately reduced because of their social and economic status. The establishment closing ranks to protect each other. The tabloid media spinning narratives that place the blame on the victims. Just absolutely incredible parallels.
We live in a Corporatocracy run by monsters, what do you expect?
Id expect you to stop electing them.
@@kidShibuya What on Earth makes you think our rulers are 'elected' by us??
@@kidShibuya “If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it.”
― Mark Twain
@@kidShibuya
40% didn't elect them.
75% of us didn't elect the last government.
80% of us didn't elect the current government.
and yet the current prime minister of this country has made no secret of his love for Davos and the WEF and all of there corporatocracy ideals
Trickledown economics is a complete fiction and it's been shown to be a fiction for a very, very long time now. I think one issue surrounding high level issues such as trickledown economics, is that people ultimately feel powerless as the inevitable question is "how can I change this?" or "how can I challenge this:?"
Regarding Grenfell, it's a complete disgrace but we've no shortage of scandals and examples of corruption but because these issues involve very high level people it seems little is ever done about it. Once you reach a certain level of wealth, power and status within our society you more or less become untouchable. The country is rotten to the core and the sad fact is that people lack any sense of honour, morality, ethics or integrity.
Yep, it's long been used to legitimise corporate greed. It's complete fiction, as you said.
So if a millionnaire buys expensive goods how does that not pay for the salaries of those manufacturing the goods.
@@greamespens1460millionaires create very little extra demand. Once you have everything there’s not much more to buy. Their money is spent on small amounts of luxuries owned by other millionaires, and the money goes back and forth. The economy stagnates as more is siphoned off to the few who don’t increase overall demand.
@@mr.metallic5310 Do millionnaire buy furniture?
Do fellow millionaires make furniture's.
Capitalism is imperfect but looks at socialism. Venezuela has more oil than some Middle Eastern countries and yet they are not living in an utopia
Most startups are funded by trickle down economics with them relying on SEIS and EIS which give big tax breaks. They should rework it a bit and have have higher tax for the wealthy (Create a new threshold) but more tax breaks for people who invest in UK companies thats a win win. You are incentivising people to invest then.
Nothing will change until those who have caused this are actually brought to justice. Actions speak far louder than words.
I agree.............the tenant who set fire to the building had 4 refigerators to feed his 6 tenants should be prosecuted.
No hope of that. In a country which specialises in SLAPSs they will never be brought to justice
@@oldgreybeard2507 welly, here's hoping this is a watershed moment, since the police are now investigating.
@@bigbinji6145is it illegal to have four refrigerators
@@bigbinji6145evidence? none i take it 😂
Its a story that could be right out of the 1800s and the middle of the industrial revolution
Its a story right out of 1800 - 2024. We have decades, centuries, of this.
It's corruption and greed everywhere. When I worked in the construction industry as an engineer I have lost my job a few times when resisting fraud and there is always a fix-up somewhere.
As an Irishman I would listen to Republicans talk about the Tories & Thatcher and they would say she hates us, they hate us. I would always say you're right, she does but you know who else she hates - the English, Scots, Welsh working class. When the Tories are in, rich people get even richer and poor people end up on the street & in food banks. Maybe it's the rebellious Irish in me but I never understood the English desire to doff the cap & tug the forelock to your " betters ". Grow a pair.
My father told me that to truly understand England you first must know it is an unreformed feudal society. The rebels of 1916, had a flag with " I serve neither King or Kaiser.".....the British still have a monarchy for heavens sake.
How right you are. 🇮🇪
I don't know anyone who hates the Irish.
I hate the ruling class and elites though.
You still have to deal with Finn Gael and the wealthy landed class that used to support the saxon normand crown. Whom hide behind the Catholic church
The shocking walkout of Labour Consevative DUP and TUV MPs before the Prime Minister spoke about the findings was shameful.And while relatives of those who died sat in the gallery.Dispicable!!!!
SNP too.
NO SNP MP walked out
@@lorenzobianchini4415 yet they did. Some didn’t turn up!
@@Believe-you-me- There are only 9 SNP and no one walked out as I said
If you noticed, on the left, some MPs actually came in and sat down.
They've taken 7 yrs to avoid responsibility, bring criminal charges, justice & compensation to the suffering residents. A disgrace in its entirety.
Crime is not supposed to pay.Unless it's Corporate crime!
They see us as "peasantry", it is that simple, not surprised in the least, expect more.
That's because the vast majority allow it
English peasantry continuously votes Tory govts in, they make life worse for everybody.
I left Britain in 1991. Of course, all places and countries change over time but it is not that Britain has changed. It is how it has changed and sadly it has changed for the worse especially in the public and corporate realm.
the public realm has been gutted like a fish.
The start of this was the privatisation of the British Research Establishment, which had performed brilliantly since the 1950's. In two moves you could pay to get dangerous products certified. Everybody in construction knew PU foam was highly flammable and Kingspan still sell PU foam backed roofing. It would never have been certified as safe under the old regime.
Correct, except it was the Building Research Establishment. This followed the privatisation of Building Control in 1990, where private companies could compete with Local Authority building control.
@@johnharvey1786 I worked in BRE in the late 1980s. My jobs was structural tests on building materials. It was proper science and engineering. The first thing the Tories did was to remove the experts and substitute accountants - except they weren't. They made an incompetent woman the boss who was a bluffer. I only told her I was a qualified accountant when I was leaving. It turned out she had no professional qualifications and relied on a BA in administration.
@@steverichmond7142 I started work in 1973 and it’s clear how the crazy drop in standards took place. However the situation is very complex and has many facets but runs throughout the industry. The BRE was the go to place for fire performance certificates, but gradually they reduced the mix of material in a test wall, due to cost, so it became harder to check if the various products would provide the fire resistance required. Then when it was privatised we started having to use Agrement Certificates, which often as in this case, were by the manufacturers for products used in different circumstances. The we had the privatised building control companies that sometimes had been purchased by the contractors but didn’t make the relationship clear arguing various twisted interpretations of the regs. Then we had the amendments to the Building Regulations which became more and more “guidance” rather than specific firm actions as can also be seen in the electrical and mechanical regs. Then the crazy forms of contract and tender / procurement methods, (particularly those used by Central Government and Local Authorities). Then there are the Management Contractors, who have no actual building staff nor any assets so if things went wrong they can just fold, so any warrantees were worthless. Why are people still using these companies. Basically the construction industry, its regulations and procurement processes needs a full overhaul from top to bottom. I’m glad I’m now retired as it was becoming harder each year to work through the system to achieve a quality result as everything was stacked against this.
Don't forget The Goddard Enquiry, The Chilcot Enquiry, no meaningful punishments in either.
reminds me of our Senate investigations in the US - always "here's a long list of all the people who either knew bad things would happen when they did this, or just didn't care," followed by basically no one seeing serious jail time as a result.
Think of the corporate profits, WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CORPORATE PROFITS!
Think of the foreigners, wont someone please think of the foreigners
Cry harder @@daftwod
@@futsanflier4422 Futsan. LOL.
Go home.
@@futsanflier4422 It there a minute of the day, you dont think of them?
My heart bleeds for these profits.
It's enough to turn you to total anarchy. Rise up, people. Like the French do.
Problem is when people do rise up, they rise up against the wrong people. They've been brainwashed to believe that all problems are due to immigrants/single mothers/benefit scroungers etc. So when they riot they protest against the poor, not against the rich who are the root cause of our problems.
Even “curious onlookers” wil be denied bail and the cases fast tracked through the courts.
If we dig deeper we will find the companies named in the enquiry will have donated money to political parties in the last 15 years. I wonder what they got in return for their generous donations ????
This isn't surprising as this is what happens when capitalism is the main system. There will be more events like this as long as we have a economic system that gives a small number of people all the power and you benefit for treating others as lessers and continue to exploit them.
'There will be more events like this ...'. In fact, the 2009 Lakanal House fire in which six people were killed, was the predecessor to Grenfell. A poor renovation, lack of oversight and continued dereliction of the council's duty of care, ultimately led to the fire getting out of control and the deaths. Interestingly, the stay put advice was in place and was not subsequently changed.
As opposed to what Communism?
Where everyone' shares in equal misery and poverty except those who are more equal.
Capitalism is far from perfect, especially this late stage type we're living through. However, there are more people living long and better than at any other time in human history, because of Capitalism.
@@chappy2121 As usual everyone seems to have this belief that there's only two systems of economic that ever existed and fail to remember that many people died to have Capitalism put in place when we had a barter system previously.
The system you mentioned is the perverted communism under Stalin when he changed the laws to suggest that "Some people are born more equal than others" and if a country has a private company, then it was never communist. Despite how they claim to label themselves.
The issue has always been how money gives people power and we're meant to accept whatever those in power say and do, even to our own detriment.
It's impossible to trust any individual who has that power. Regardless of they earned it by merit or as most do, simply inherit it and put nothing back into the system.
@@chappy2121 people's lives are not being extended by capitalism, but technology. If it were true, people would've been living for far longer and we wouldn't have had the horrors of the Victorian period where you needed to have multiple children because most would die.
Technology has often been held back by capitalism so suggesting that we're living longer and better lives due to capitalism forgets the truth that many companies don't implement things to help people because where's the money in that? Makes more sense for these people to create a problem and sell a solution than do anything to genuinely help people.
@@chappy2121 You don't know what you're talking about.
By definition that cannot be poverty in communism. The "living longer and better" thing is completely false too. This isn't because of capitalism, this is because of inevitable technological innovations. The vast majority of which were researched using government (read: not private) money.
Forced Austerity also killed 300,000+ people at no consequence
Wait until net zero really kicks in.
@@user-xu5vl5th9n Wait until the climate apocalypse really kicks in
@@2020_Visi0n It is the apocalypse hysteria against CO2 that led to the cladding being put on GT in the first place. Hysteria about a fake apocalypse created a real apocalypse.
When you don’t lean left but everyone assumes you do because you’re a lawyer who is passionate about rule of law and then you start thinking if that’s only left maybe I should lean left
It's better than the alternatives.
Give it a try. What do you have to lose?
Far right supporters who "love England" should take a look at this report at see who they REALLY should be fighting.
🎀They should be they won’t. Tommy Robinson and Nigel Farrage neither of whom live in England , managed to help instigate some of the worst race riots. Seen in this country for some time. 🎀
You mean the illegals subletting flats? The council housed more that they officially had in the block, 4 people were white that died all old and clearly lived there a long time.
At the time the cops had a guy in the back of their car, residents stated he'd locked up, fled and then called 999 to report a chip pan fire. Now it's a fridge freezer fire, though there are rumours there were 4 in the flat for the 6 people living there.
If illegals weren't encouraged to come here this tragedy wouldn't have occurred. Blaming ministers is shifting the blame from those subletting much needed social housing for profit. The council were contacting the 'residents' they had on file and they didn't live there. 1 guy was convicted of £45k fraud afterwards and he still refused to say who and how many he was subletting to, no he wasn't British.
I left at the age of 24 and went to Australia. Best thing i ever did!
Australia is a deeply corrupt country. Kind of out of the frying pan and into the frying pan kind of situation there.
We have a less well-entrenched upper class but we have no James O'Brien. I am Australian, I have to come here to hear anybody eloquently attack corruption and power.
A country totally free of corporate corruption and greed, I'm sure
@atverde less corrupt for sure. Which was probably the point
@@atverde
In all fairness, you sound somewhat surly and embittered or dare i say it, jealous. Hint... get out of the armchair and get an ambition.
Those people were not important. Money, that's what is important in Britain. Average house price in that area 1.6 million pounds. Why should they care about 'trash' in social housing.
Why is social housing given to foreign immigrants? 90% of those that died in the Grenfell tower were foreign immigrants.
Sooo very True. In todays society an individuals worth is measured only by the wealth they have or can generate. If one speaks up about it, they labelled as a communist/ Socialist.
It's been like that for ages. When you take out life insurance its dependant on your mortgage and assets.
When you've worked hard all your life and retire You dare live a few more years, society should look after you in thanks for being a decent member of society.
We help too many who never want to contribute. Only take
@@chappy2121 you are correct. My son has a business in an area designated as deprived full of professional benefit claimants. Some of the stories he tells about how they claim are unbelievable. That said he gets occasional mindless manual work done for the price of a couple of pints CASH.
Profit comes before `life`.
What went wrong? Either we've created a society which rewards sociopaths and puts them in positions of power and/or being in power somehow turns people into sociopaths.
Cost cutting/Greed is the true enemy of this tragedy. Weak governance of the government hasn’t helped.
I have lived in the UK for over 25 years now and the last 12 have been the worst. The corruption and contempt for the other side what ever that is at that moment be it remainers, immigrants or victims of a tragedy like Grenfell as been shocking and awful to live through.
Yes James, this is the country we live in. There's lots of things wrong with our country isn't there?
Not surprised at all. This is what happens when wealth and power are regarded as the only indicators of experience and knowledge.
Those who actually know the risks and dangers were at best ignored, at worst openly attacked.
You can apply the above to any number of tragedies.
Unbelievable. No body pays. What’s new?
Because all of US are too busy working or commenting online to organize and deal with them as needed.
Not true. The taxpayer pays. £250 million on this 7 year enquiry, of which £100 million went to the lawyers, who dragged it out in order to line their pockets. And £300 million preserving the remains of Grenfell Tower.
Well, James,as a rbkc teanant, I safely say I've been treated applalingly ! This is the worst council I've ever known?!
😢
Next time someone sniggers or sneers at Health and Safety Regulations remind them of this.
Most of the stuff people blame on H&S are to do with insurance anyway.
Eg. As a nurse I was not insured to replace a light bulb but the ward domestic staff were. They, however were not insured to push a patients wheelchair. But the nurses were. This kept insurance premiums down. Each group of workers is insured against accidents related to their day to day job.
It was "health and safety regulations" that told people to "stay put" when the building was on fire.. It was "health and safety" and "following procedures" that killed them.
@@user-xu5vl5th9n: Too simplistic. There were multiple failings through and through.
I currently live on the 19th floor of a building in Central London that's built full of cladding - the same kind as Grenfell. I only hope I survive.
Lefty lawyer and proud of it their should be more accountability and less inquiries there is in Australia very strict rules disgusting
The most shocking part of this story is that there are people shocked by this story
Not surprised at all; just disappointed yet again.
Nothing changes. In the 1860s, after several railway accidents, the government planned to set up a railway safety authority to try and stop those accidents. Several companies objected to that move, saying they did not want to be dictated to by the government.
People won’t let the establishment kick this into the long grass like they did Hillsborough.
People won’t stop until the culpable are in the dock.
Thank you for covering this James
Imagine if there was a group of recently retired lawyers went to town to bring justice for no fee as money will sadly create lack of justice
In my case, I've never moaned about health and safety, human rights or red tape. This is because I've never trusted businesses to regulate themselves. We are seeing the failure of self-regulation in business over and over again and we are expected to accept or even reward it. I would like to see the failure of self-regulation come with serious criminal and financial consequences.
This is simple. Industry lobby has paid a significant sum to those responsible for making sure this can't happen.
The hope being that they'll be long gone before any disaster occurs.
They fcuked that up too, which is hardly a surprise
The Tories believe in small Goverment. They believe society doesn’t need to be told how to behave.
Then we get things like Grenville to remind us society doesn’t know how to behave.
Tory mass immigration.
... but they very strongly believe that if that society starts protesting near Westminster, the armed goons of the government must come out, aggressivle, in numbers...
The Tory party has no natural right to be thought of as the optimum vehicle for government. There are laws concerning building standards, health and safety, negligence and corporate manslaughter in the public domain. Ignorance is no defence. Society knows how to behave, but it needs to be reminded. Especially the MPs from both sides of the House of Commons who left before the statement on the findings of the final report was made.
It was under Tony Blair that grenfell style cladding was combustionable but advice was ignored . Then successive governments carried on ignoring the relevant information. What is worrying is we are seeing the same pressure being placed on the current government to cut red tape regarding planning permission by large developers. When your house floods or sewers back up you can find comfort in knowing is was expedient to ignore such issues to re energise the econ omy and fill fat cats pockets.
@@paulbatson7881 . Cladding comes in various safety qualities. There is nothing wrong when the correct quality is used.
And we need more building inspectors to make sure it is.
Watch the Towering Inferno.
A Parliamentary investigation into external cladding in 2000 stated: "We do not believe that it should take a serious fire in which many people are killed before all reasonable steps are taken towards minimising risks". It recommended that British Standards for cladding had to be updated, specifically demanding non-combustible rather than combustible cladding that has been proven in full-scale testing (akin to a 'live' fire situation). The standards, tests and specifications for cladding (including its installation) are fundamental to everything else. Experts have been aware of the fire risk for over 35 years and Parliament (and all political parties) for at least the last 24 years.
Let’s hope it doesn’t take you 20 years to accept you were wrong about Corbyn.
Did anyone else see the clip from the House of Commons after PMQs, just before Starmer made a statement about Grenfell. The majority of elected MP's walked out.
Why would they stay to listen to where's wally
I see you are a very compassionate and intelligent person.
It is easy to cast blame for a process that you do not understand, or of which you are uninformed, but the statement was published to all MPs before the speech, and many MPs have other responsiblities, such as serving on committees, which are suspended only while PMQs is in progress. Of course, the perception is that they weren't interested, but only if you are unaware why many MPs simply have other duties that take precedent. PMQs has the highest attendance of all debates, simply because all other HoC business is supended while it is in progress, many debates take place in the chamber with few MPs in attendance.
@luke7708 why did you mention compassion? I was pointing out who in there right mind would hang around to listen to the tool makers son speak,as for compassion why would I have that for total strangers I'm never gona meet
Vote Reform in the election by any chance?
Herald of Free Enterprise.
Didn't that Boat sink ??
@@shaundonovan8816 Yes, one person was blamed, for falling asleep after working long hours on consecutive days, with insufficient breaks between each shift, because the ferry company was not held to the same standards of Health and Safety as a land based business. One of that persons responsibilities was the closure of the bow doors, the same ones used to load and offload cars and lorries, before it sailed. The captain was also held to account, for failing to ensure the doors were closed, but no company executives, who set the working conditions on board, were held responsible.
@@shaundonovan8816 After nearly 200 people drowned and an inquiry that declared Townsend Thorensen was rotten to the core, thatcher knighted the chairman.
I'm sure they will learn from this, lessons have been learned. ever heard that before? The fire was a disaster, the Fire service telling people not to try and leave the building is mind numbing
The Tory mania keeps giving
You do realise it was a labour council when the building was clad
The nanny state was the go to phrase from the Thatcher government
It is far too mild to describe the Keir Stasi Regime
@@jeffsimon9594 Need I remind you that Keir Starmer has been PM for just 2 months? Grenfell occured 7 years ago, under the rule of a Conservative PM, indeed it was at the midpoint of the Conservatives 14 years in power, but somehow, according to you, it is the fault of the guy who has only just taken over?
@@wolfen210959 Please correct your username:- it should read 'Wolfie' as in Wolfie Smith. Ta very much in advance.
The whole society has been designed by people of power and priviladge for people of power and priviladge. This can only be fixed by a massive change of heart and there is no appitite for that. .................. So start saying something that not everyone knows.
A change of heart by who?
The wealthy and powerful few, who have ruled for centuries? Unlikely.
Or the billions of we plebs, who have allowed them to?
The system for punishment is too sluggish and easily manipulated to get any real justice. The same thing is happening with the post office scandal. Any real claims just end up going round and round in circles, never getting anywhere meaningful.
The system, including the police, was set up not to punish the guilty or maintain law, but to protect the rich and punish the poor who dare try to step out of line.
🎀I’m not surprised. The media and government have been telling people that poor people and immigrants deserve less than others. Overtime more and more people started to have less empathy for people, who fell into either or both groups.🎀
0 accountability for this
AND I GUARANTEE NOT A SINGLE PERSON WILL BE SENT TO JAIL
don't be idiotic. Jail for what ? That they sat in a public sector housing office and said ....'we'll ignore the reports that some tenants have 5 or 6 ''guests'' living in their council property -- in case we are smeared with accusations of racism ?
@@bigbinji6145 Yes Political correctness and the woke started the fire,
@@bigbinji6145 excatly what is your point mate ?
Gross overpopulation for tiny housing market.. third world country.
"Homes for Heroes" ?!
@@diamondgeezer3933 My point ...mate....is if you are housing foreign tenants who have zero respect for the safety and rights of other people ....then you have a system on the point of collapse. London is a cesspit lacking any morality and sense of itself.
The only thing that surprises me a out all this is that the findings are unequivocal.
Society!! What society????
Companies appear to be legally bound to look after their shareholders first and foremost - this seeming legal imperative needs to be looked at so that company actions and responsibilities in society are equally as important
Yes thanks to Margaret Thatcher who initiated the that
Man walking his dog in Leicester was kicked to death by local Youths. Knife crime and radical extremism is rife in Britain. What is our country coming too?
I bet this is what will happen. Those at the top in politics and the chief executives who knew the dangers but did nothing, they will be allowed to just make faux public statements of apology. only those at "the botton", the architects, the council etc will face prosecution. Big business, the majority of our government, absolutely despise the poor and those on welfare. You just need to look at the sheer cruelty of our welfare system to know this,
Very accurate, well said.
Agree in principle, but K&C Council are , possibly, as guilty as anyone for what happened at Grenfell.
What it says about Britain is we have more than our fair share of Rodneys, that the Tory Party still has any seats at all in politics, and that the Press still treats them as worthies.
It says more about Britain that this is nowhere near new.
We have decades of deaths caused by incompetance, dishonesty and greed.
I wonder how many of your listeners know the meaning of Aberfan.
The horror of neoliberalism.
I am shocked, but not surprised, what i want to see is justice, it appears that the blind fold on justice has slipped.
Tbh with you James , it isn't just the contracting companies, it's also the councils and their neighbourhood management orgs - they take backhanders from the companies to nominate for contracts
Why the surprise? The only things that matter in this country are the ruling class, money, and the ability of the ruling class to make more money. Welcome to Shitain 💩🇬🇧
Saville and his mates ? No media person or higher up went away for covering/enabling
This has been ongoing for decades, except that when one sees and hears the dissidents flowing through society and no one else reacts the thought is that you are wrong and not the majority.
The decision to refurbish a high rise single escape stair building was made by whom? That decision precipitated all subsequent actions.
Both sides are at fault here
When visiting such high rises in the past, I frequently asked where was 'the other staircase' and couldn't understand why architects designed only one. I found it so strange. A risk of fire is always a reality but now, the majority of homes have battery chargers. If they catch fire, that fire is different, more volatile and heat intensive.
@@daraghokane4236
"Both sides"?
Kensington and Chelsea Council.
They decided to 'refurbish' Grenfelll because they were building a shiny, new , multi-million pound leisure centre almost next door, thought that Grenfell Tower looked a bit scruffy, and might deter the 'right' kind of people from using the centre's facilities.
The original design offered to K&C included fitting totally nom-combustible cladding, but the cost exceeded the budget that they had set themselves for the refurb.
K&C are a fairly wealthy council and could have absorbed the extra cost easily. They chose not to, and went looking for cheaper cladding options.
The rest, as they say, .........
The ideology of unregulated freemarket capitalism sees people as commodities. If they (we) are valuable enough, then the markets will indeed protect them (us). It also combines with a sort of peverted dawinism. If someone is able enough, they will become rich and will be able to buy safety. And (if they want to extend it to their relatives). I guess for them, the only victims here would be those under 18 who hadn't had enough time yet to become rich.
And yet, even though it is the only thing that Tories believe in, we still vote for them in our millions.
Go figure.
what does it say about Britain? It says the moral fabric of our society has gone
Money talks. If you have it you do what you like with no accountability.
This pattern of corporations, rich businessmen, etc working hand-in-hand with senior politicians and a lack of questioning from most of the media started with Thatcher andhas just gotten worse and worse.
I would be very surprised if anyone spends a day in prison and if they do it will not be a politician or a civil servant working at the behest of a politician. More likely the businesses, not the current or former CEOs, will be fined paltry amounts. English justice has been designed by and for the powers that be.
I'm not surprised about the uncovered abuses of bureaucrats, the establishment and big businesses. However, the failings of the fire brigade was so disappointing.
The Fire Brigade failings are the result of promoting incompetent people to positions of authority, and ineffective training.
Didn't the water companies in England dump sewage in the rivers recently?
just a few tea stains...according to sky news
It will be the same with labours so called house building boom. Shoddy workmanship and cutting corners. Labour will still build blocks of flats.
Blocks of flats are not inherently dangerous, so long as building regulations are strictly followed. In the case of Grenfell, and others, problems have arisen as a result of insufficient oversight of their refurbishment, and in some cases, dishonesty and fraud of the companies involved.
I live in a small block of flats, but it is made entirely of brick and concrete, and has no cladding.
IF TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS WORKED, VICTORIAN WORKERS, SERVANTS & PEASANTS WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN POOR.
Health and Safety should be above all politics.
As soon as they said the cladding wasn’t the cladding that was in the original spec, I knew it was greed and corruption. I am never surprised by anything anymore.
They had the option of fire rated presented by contractors. But clients choose cheaper option.
Well said.
Power riding roughshod over normal people is sadly the norm rather than the exception when you look at history. Only relatively recently the European social democracies put a stop to that, from the Enlightenment and French Revolution onwards. And these rights we got as a result were hard fought and require hard fighting on an almost daily basis to maintain. Moral codes, laws, democracy, a balanced society and so forth, are all instruments that need constant maintenance. And when troubles start rising like economic downturn, war or natural disaster, these instruments are often the first things to go.
Dodgy tenants riding roughshod over the safety of other tenants.
@@jeffsimon9594 There are laws regarding such things, and many of those "dodgy tenants" end up being evicted, which is not true of the dodgy construction firms that regularly endanger the lives of the tenants, in order to make higher profits.
@@wolfen210959 Many of those "dodgy tenants" DO NOT end up being evicted as it is considered politically incorrect to do that.
Sadly not at all surprised, neither was I surprised to see MPs walking out of Parliament just before this report was given.
Well said james totaly agree
“Incompetence, dishonesty and greed” harm everyone. Ignoring Health and Safety regulations is purest stupidity. Including lead, asbestos etc.
Some of the most serious & poignant words you have spoken of late J. 🙏
I don't like to hear people described as "ordinary people". They are equals in value and dignity to anyone and everyone else, rich, or powerful, or "esteemed" or not. The reality is that we human beings so frequently ignore that, in favour of ourselves and our own kind. Do as you would be done by ... seems to diminish as power increases. Not lying and deceiving, but honouring your neighbour and seeking their well-being ... where has that gone from the lives of certain people. Regarding oneself as superiour, inviolate, and unaccountable was not something I admired or was shown as a child to be admirable. Those whe are complicit in the abuse of their equals should be required to do years of voluntary assistance for those injured in one way or another, and for the community, until they understand the value of human life and the settings in which we all live. And maybe a financial or liberty penalty in addition. They are not mini-gods above the rest of us. We are equals, which is forgotten at many people's peril.
End of speech. ..but it's what I believe. Maybe others do too ?
I am not surprised James. I am angry to my core. I'm tired of dishonesty, corruption and self interest and I agree with all you say here.
I was a little bit nuts, then, 20 years ago because I have always railed against injustice and seen under the veneer of descency of, and especially, right wing politics.
This is the country we live in!! You know where Heathrow is O'Brien... Off you go!!
Twenty years ago you must have a right tomato. What did you think was going on then?
I'm not surprised, but I am shocked, that there are still buildings with combustible cladding where nothing has been done to make the buildings safe. One, even, where a judge gave 6 (I think) months to deal with the problem but NOTHING has been done. What is going to happen, if anything, to this landlord?
Grenfell was a realization that we were allowing the third-world city to develop around the beautiful modern London... a place largely ignored, but living largely in a way common to underdeveloped cities from where much of the regions residents come... we have failed to assimilate these communities, giving them the protection of our laws and our safety culture, instead, we let them import the inferior standards and corruption they were escaping from..
who is at fault, I feel we (not that I am a Londoner but) failed them as a city... and they were dishonest in their wish to migrate not actually being a wish to come to the UK, only to partake in the material wealth this promised.
I think Grenfell made me realize a lot of that... made me see beyond the new Bermondsey and Canary wharf with the TFL and DLR projects. London has become very beautiful, but it has also become very... don't know what word to use... possibly cynical; a city that does not care for quite a large number of it's residents, marginalizing them at every turn...
Somebody only had to hold a cigarette lighter to the cladding material and then saying oh look it burns
We have politicians of both parties that are or very close to sociopaths. All the tragedies from Hillsborough to today and I don't think a single person or company in prison, just have a publc inquiry and people will hopefully forget about the injustices.
Boris Johnson closed 3 fire stations near Grenfell and sold off vital firefighting equipment
Defamation of the victims by Mogg was disgusting. I think he should go to prison - just because!!!