Shootout between police and zama zamas

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  • Опубліковано 11 жов 2024
  • Efforts to stop zama zamas continue in parts of Johannesburg. A shootout ensued between the police and illegal miners. eNCA reporter Bafedile Moerane was at the scene. #DStv403 #eNCA

КОМЕНТАРІ • 280

  • @soulstalgiarecords77740
    @soulstalgiarecords77740 Рік тому +69

    Malema must go and help the police there... Is it not, he advocated that non-South Africans should find creative ways of entering the country...

    • @shaunie7473
      @shaunie7473 Рік тому +9

      He won’t, because that’s him fighting people from his lineage. I believe his father was Zimbabwean.

    • @elsabadenhorst9746
      @elsabadenhorst9746 Рік тому +2

      @@shaunie7473 True i have proof that "not Malema" Marema comes from Zimbabwe.

    • @corinnevanjaarsveldt6087
      @corinnevanjaarsveldt6087 Рік тому +5

      Is the zama zamas not from lesothi, zimbabwe and mozambique? Why do they not mine for diamonds in lesotho? Maybe their countries dont have a free range like ours and their justice system is more solid than south africa. We need the icc to intervene here. This is an injustice to human rights.

    • @Professor_Stark
      @Professor_Stark Рік тому +1

      @@shaunie7473Maybe if he was a trained police officer he would be there don’t you think?

    • @shaunie7473
      @shaunie7473 Рік тому +2

      @@Professor_Stark It’s unlike him not to be front and center at such matters. Remember not too long ago he staged a nation wide protest against matters of national concern like electricity outages, even though he isn’t skilled nor qualified he took the lead? Illegal foreign miners are a PROBLEM, so one would expect him to stand up against it too, don’t you think? I mean he did invite foreigners to run a mock in SA anyway, so he must deal with his people!

  • @drandrewsibisi
    @drandrewsibisi Рік тому +66

    This is a complete embarrassment for any state🤦🏼‍♂️ South Africa is a joke. In Marikana they were quick to exert maximum force against citizens striking for a mere pay hike

    • @ronelpeens7366
      @ronelpeens7366 Рік тому

      💔

    • @hihello7014
      @hihello7014 Рік тому +1

      SAPS ARE THE BEST IN THE WHOLE WORLD

    • @ChessNoobX
      @ChessNoobX Рік тому +1

      ​@@hihello7014no STF is the best...it's a very elite small branch of the police...majority of SAPS do nothing....they just wanted the job but will never risk their lives to do it.

    • @shaunie7473
      @shaunie7473 Рік тому +4

      That’s what they usually do. Their citizens will be dealt with harshly, yet an extremely lenient approach is taken towards criminals. Someone breaks into your house and you kill the person, you’ll be in jail within hours.

    • @ChessNoobX
      @ChessNoobX Рік тому

      @shaunie7473 lol getting arrested doesn't mean you will go to jail...depends on the circumstances in which you had to kill intruders

  • @kaykwanda8234
    @kaykwanda8234 Рік тому +63

    Mr President won't deploy the army, but when citizens are just protesting he is quick to deploy the army.

    • @shaunie7473
      @shaunie7473 Рік тому +19

      Never mind mere protesting, the army was deployed to ensure citizens stay indoors during level 5 lockdown! If they applied such force at the borders, we wouldn’t be dealing with this problem!

    • @m.x.refrigxolani8365
      @m.x.refrigxolani8365 Рік тому

      ​​@@shaunie7473 2020-2022 were two years when people's rights were totally stripped. That's how we were shown all over the world that politicians and leaders don't care about humans. Their power turns them into mini-gods!!

    • @ndzalamamathebula3351
      @ndzalamamathebula3351 Рік тому +1

      @@shaunie7473literally 💔

  • @KatlegoMakoalaJacob
    @KatlegoMakoalaJacob Рік тому +43

    Operation Dudula has been saying but were called xenophobic... Glad now the media is showing the extent of this instead of gaslighting SA'ns. SANDF should be deployed in all the mining areas. The Police are overwhelmed & outnumbered.

    • @shaunie7473
      @shaunie7473 Рік тому

      Yes, but they need to fix the borders too because these illegals will be arrested, deported and back within 24 hours.

    • @melissatwalo1398
      @melissatwalo1398 Рік тому +2

      They left thus for too ... long,now these people have planted their roots, they are even oblivious of the crime they are committing

    • @ronelpeens7366
      @ronelpeens7366 Рік тому +1

      Ja..same as farm murders , killing our food resources 💔💜help them all please God

    • @corinnevanjaarsveldt6087
      @corinnevanjaarsveldt6087 Рік тому

      Better take it to the icc. How many true sa citizens lost their lives through this.

    • @lindelwanothandongcobo8863
      @lindelwanothandongcobo8863 Рік тому +1

      That’s not the major food resource

  • @mmapnflorica4076
    @mmapnflorica4076 Рік тому +14

    GAYTON MCKENZIE HAS MY VOTE NEXT YEAR!!!

  • @sethusipho3986
    @sethusipho3986 Рік тому +28

    The Minister of police has to be arrested 😢😢

  • @japiesas6517
    @japiesas6517 Рік тому +19

    What an embarrassment this illegal activities has been allowed by the regime despite what Cele is saying police are on the back foot what a disgrace.

  • @arifphysicsmathematicslabo4451
    @arifphysicsmathematicslabo4451 Рік тому +30

    Government should take stern action against the illegal miners and deploy sufficient number of police and armies.

  • @gdewyg
    @gdewyg Рік тому +40

    If they retaliate, police have got authority to use weapons

    • @angrysocialjusticewarrior
      @angrysocialjusticewarrior Рік тому

      Police are already using weapons. There is never an instance where police conduct a raid without weapons.
      This is why it is called a "shootout" and not a "shooting". Shoutout means both sides have guns and are shooting at each other.

  • @X-ManGuy
    @X-ManGuy Рік тому +18

    Why are they not using drones to trace these criminals instead of chasing after them

    • @Roy_trades
      @Roy_trades Рік тому +3

      We all know they won't think to that extent 😂😂

  • @IainPSmith
    @IainPSmith Рік тому +25

    Using JMPD??? Where are SAPS? They are trained for this.
    Also, if its being classified as terrorism, call in the army. They operate on a different level to the police and will clean up quicker than the cops could ever do it.

    • @m.x.refrigxolani8365
      @m.x.refrigxolani8365 Рік тому +2

      I think it's their OFF-DAY..............

    • @modisemakokwe4256
      @modisemakokwe4256 Рік тому

      Can you belief that these zama zamas are now actively in Kliensie deep in the western region of the Northern Cape province

    • @koketsomokhetoa2729
      @koketsomokhetoa2729 Рік тому

      We called for back up but they send two guys from pops 😢😢it's quite disturbing how there is no unity between saps and jmpd

  • @antonvrb1510
    @antonvrb1510 Рік тому +17

    Where is the EFF to protest for their foreign friends?

  • @AlternativPerspectiv
    @AlternativPerspectiv Рік тому +9

    I can tell you with 100% confidence that there is at least 1 helicopter on standby somewhere waiting to fly Cyril to nowhere... yet... here, these policemen are walking on foot, no air support. Considering ANC budgets 3 times on VIP protection for themselves what they spend on the entire SA population's police... it's no surpise.

  • @mgugushe6379
    @mgugushe6379 Рік тому +14

    Perhaps it's time to send in the South African Defence Force to protect South Africa's sovereignty.

    • @francoisdutoit3360
      @francoisdutoit3360 Рік тому +2

      but who will then stand around and do nothing?

    • @kabelofaith738
      @kabelofaith738 Рік тому

      You can't send soldiers for police work!!

    • @Bishop-w2o
      @Bishop-w2o 9 місяців тому

      ​@@francoisdutoit3360lol😂😂😂

  • @giftgreen3748
    @giftgreen3748 Рік тому +25

    Some people blame Bheki Cele but the province has an MEC of safety and security. Some ANC cadres are getting paid for doing nothing.

  • @RMMrM-bf3zv
    @RMMrM-bf3zv Рік тому +4

    Where are the drones?😮😮 eNCA should invest in drones..this is too risky for Jeno

  • @sonenibeatricemhlongo7953
    @sonenibeatricemhlongo7953 Рік тому +16

    If they can shoot at our police, qhat about the citizens. One day they will clean out some neighborhoods.

  • @lukemorena9357
    @lukemorena9357 Рік тому +26

    Malema's brodas

  • @mokone4758
    @mokone4758 Рік тому +15

    I don’t think there is a county in the whole world that is undermined by foreigners like South Africa🤞🏾

    • @corinnevanjaarsveldt6087
      @corinnevanjaarsveldt6087 Рік тому +3

      So agree. Poor khoisan people.

    • @thembizwane2584
      @thembizwane2584 Рік тому

      We are tired in our streets they do ad they want carting beers laughing i stay in Orlando East pls come help us 😢

    • @andresnyman940
      @andresnyman940 8 місяців тому +1

      You can say that again bafo

  • @Mzii100
    @Mzii100 Рік тому +4

    During covid, the army was deployed on civilians for law and order. It doesnt make sense why no Army is not deployed to attend this issue.

  • @abdushakoorjamalmokalane1719
    @abdushakoorjamalmokalane1719 Рік тому +5

    Blame the GOLD mafia not the Zamazamas

  • @mkuluclive3783
    @mkuluclive3783 Рік тому +9

    Needed, 20 ex Recce soldiers from the 1980s. No more Zama Zamas.

    • @paulap142
      @paulap142 Рік тому +2

      yes i agree with you!!!! This one's don't know how the catch ..zama zama's 😂🤣

  • @georgedoyoyo53
    @georgedoyoyo53 Рік тому +9

    High discipline...High moral...KEEP IT UP JMPD🙏🏼

  • @southafricannewschannel1988
    @southafricannewschannel1988 Рік тому +12

    People will still vote for EFF and ANC.

    • @arifphysicsmathematicslabo4451
      @arifphysicsmathematicslabo4451 Рік тому +4

      No.... never. Next Time DA.

    • @francoisdutoit3360
      @francoisdutoit3360 Рік тому +1

      but what will happen to all those free T-shirts?

    • @aviwesofono5937
      @aviwesofono5937 Рік тому +1

      But the DA supports illegal immigration and these Zama zamas are illegal foreigners. Check the DA stance on the deportation of illegal immigrants then come back and tell us who people vote for.

    • @hagridsbeardguy1399
      @hagridsbeardguy1399 Рік тому

      Or continue to be apathetic and not vote at all, not realising that our votes are the only tool we have to fix this failing state.

    • @hagridsbeardguy1399
      @hagridsbeardguy1399 Рік тому

      @@francoisdutoit3360don’t be a doos china, be laka 😊
      Some people genuinely don’t have t shirts let’s not make fun of them it’s poor form. We need everyone we can get to join the opposition and remove this socialist corrupt party’s majority rule.

  • @tpkorea6c
    @tpkorea6c Рік тому +7

    About time! sad that people must die before the government does something. All illegal activities, taxi drivers, and mafia must be detained and kicked out of SA.

  • @shaunie7473
    @shaunie7473 Рік тому +10

    Can someone with the correct knowledge please explain what it means if illegal mining operations are legalised? Does it mean that the government is losing the war and will succumb to the criminals by accepting their crimes, basically giving them permission to continue their criminal activity without having the burden of dealing with it? So if my understanding is correct, does it mean that if the fight against r*pe doesn’t end, r*pe will be made legal too?

    • @Gismho
      @Gismho Рік тому +1

      Good points!!

    • @kemmoneR
      @kemmoneR Рік тому

      NGOs wants them to be legalized. Especially foreign human rights lawyers, government can't do much because of them. They literally are campaigning for them to operate

    • @shaunie7473
      @shaunie7473 Рік тому

      @@kemmoneR Which NGOs and why would they dictate to government?

  • @siyabongaclerment2466
    @siyabongaclerment2466 Рік тому +8

    They should deploy the army on this one they are sitting and doing nothing

  • @leratosikoshule2771
    @leratosikoshule2771 Рік тому +3

    Well done EFF 👏

  • @mikesnyman8346
    @mikesnyman8346 Рік тому +4

    Unfortunately, our government has the backbone of a Jelly Baby.

  • @hopeforall8135
    @hopeforall8135 Рік тому +2

    Where are the news drones of eNcA. We're in the time of the 4th industrial Revolution and no drones🤔

  • @tactical-masterclass9408
    @tactical-masterclass9408 Рік тому +6

    This looks like a matter that requires the immediate attention of SANDF. But CR is only quick to unleash them against an invisible enemy. At this rate, CR and Bheki will send the police to deal with an invading enemy force.

  • @rykengelbrecht2265
    @rykengelbrecht2265 Рік тому +8

    You will be standing around like that. In a group. You invite to be shoot at😅

  • @bobbylebone7630
    @bobbylebone7630 Рік тому +4

    One thing that cross my mind,why do the law enforcement want to arrest people who are shooting at them? That's the Biggest question SAns don't be stupid my fellow SAns.

  • @warriorofwarriors8205
    @warriorofwarriors8205 Рік тому +6

    This is beyond SAPS, please release to them SANDF. Just like the truck driver were given to SANDF lately

  • @reginahmadalane5132
    @reginahmadalane5132 Рік тому +1

    So surprising our so called next president is as quiet as dead .😂😂😂

  • @abbeymolosiwa7419
    @abbeymolosiwa7419 Рік тому +9

    We have a weak state😭

  • @AlbertMfanizile
    @AlbertMfanizile Рік тому +3

    Hire Zulus , give them guns they will drive everyone home

    • @AlbertMfanizile
      @AlbertMfanizile Рік тому

      It is real only Zulus can fight this war with their Juju man's, l trust them

    • @mirriamduma4959
      @mirriamduma4959 Рік тому

      😮😮😮😮

  • @garthbunting8823
    @garthbunting8823 Рік тому +2

    It's sad that these police have no idea of how to conduct a raid. Were are the stopper groups?

  • @RichardCrossland-c1o
    @RichardCrossland-c1o Рік тому +1

    What is zamas zamas

  • @RMMrM-bf3zv
    @RMMrM-bf3zv Рік тому +5

    Lmao!! 😂😂 “ police don’t have power”😅

    • @5995Jiol
      @5995Jiol Рік тому

      Bro I swear this country is a joke

  • @anelemsimang5692
    @anelemsimang5692 Рік тому +5

    Only 10 cops lol😂

  • @Bluecollarjoe6B9
    @Bluecollarjoe6B9 Рік тому +3

    Remember to aim for center mass. Guns at low ready and keep scanning for threats. Stay safe out there boys.

  • @productivitybydesign9368
    @productivitybydesign9368 Рік тому +4

    Always a government solution - incorporate criminals into normal society

  • @7thBeatWaveForever
    @7thBeatWaveForever Рік тому +1

    Bro! I just passed that area before it happened 😢

  • @ElverGalarga-pk8zg
    @ElverGalarga-pk8zg Рік тому

    Who are the zama zamas ?

  • @RentiaW
    @RentiaW Рік тому +2

    Why on earth doesn't the minister bring in the army? Only promises to the community in his speech and then left off without sending in enough SAPS members. OMG

  • @jeritahmashao5448
    @jeritahmashao5448 Рік тому +3

    Not shame 2 say we are not going any where,Malema pls talk 2 ur brothers as our mzansi ppll can live like this.Jooo South Africa the gov is behind this as they are the benefits,Army Army pls Ramaphosa pls deploy n take this foreigners out of SA,where is Nhlanhla Lux,

  • @dothadance1
    @dothadance1 Рік тому +2

    Malema said Madiba is a sellout. Malema is a traitor and a sellout

  • @Stitch-g8r
    @Stitch-g8r Рік тому +2

    They are not equipped against the Zama Zamas, because they were too busy filling their pockets than looking at the real problems, they've allowed for too long.

  • @ediasblue905
    @ediasblue905 Рік тому +1

    Sizokuthula must go there

  • @CliveKisten-lp7mq
    @CliveKisten-lp7mq Рік тому

    Welcome back Bafadile!

  • @psylentrage
    @psylentrage Рік тому

    Vice News has a video on illegal mining in South-Africa, from NINE YEARS ago😒

  • @tonymosima5477
    @tonymosima5477 Рік тому +1

    Correction South Africans. Zamazama is not only few people you saw last week on the surface. I mean underground there's thousands and thousands of people and also there's everything underground e.g tuck shops, clinics, bars, gun shops, kiosk, grave yard and different groups of maximum armed securities.
    So dont be fooled by media cause what's on surface truely doesn't correspond with what's underground.
    Another thing underground Zama zamas they work under a critical condition e.g hot area, extremely dark, smells of shit, urine, dead bodies and methane gas.
    The only way to take out those Zama Zama gangs underground SA must deployed more than five thousand army.

  • @tebogopekane1418
    @tebogopekane1418 Рік тому

    Where are the drones?

  • @mervynnaidoo2167
    @mervynnaidoo2167 Рік тому +3

    Let's be honest about this for 29yrs very little was done to eradicate illegal mining activities n many criminal activities in SA WHY law enforcement officials, Indunas, municipal management n employees,politicians n business leaders are profiteering from criminal activities every where in SA CRY OUR BELOVED COUNTRY

  • @tb100
    @tb100 Рік тому +2

    Typical ANC, waiting until everything collapses and streets in Jhb explode before doing something. Lack of leadership, lack of management, lack of care for the country. But of course, illegal mining is only a symptom of the bigger problem and that is the ANC's failure to grow the economy and create employment. And that of course is due to their disastrous policies of BEE and land expropriation, which have chased away investors.

  • @emkaygcaba3907
    @emkaygcaba3907 Рік тому +1

    Not even one helicopter helping to locate Yhoo South Africa is a joke 😲Those JMPD officials can't get those people alone

  • @vanessamerckel
    @vanessamerckel Рік тому +1

    How can they legalize criminality what is up with this country and to illegal foreigners nogal Im very confused!

  • @nicholasmashego8204
    @nicholasmashego8204 Рік тому

    Bheki Cele no chopa no drone...😢😢 Hai suka maan

  • @stuartrobertse9617
    @stuartrobertse9617 Рік тому

    Where are the police Helicopters??
    Or even Drones?

  • @Metsiabotshelo
    @Metsiabotshelo Рік тому +1

    😢😢😢😢 South Africa ne...

  • @phumefilms4468
    @phumefilms4468 Рік тому +5

    😂 they're taunting these cops, they having fun at work the zama zama people. They obviously know SAPS is looking for them high and low, but they don't suspend the operations for the time being. Making me think that they have the capacity to retaliate or even defeat our cops.

  • @fanozino4437
    @fanozino4437 Рік тому +1

    Where are the saps and soldiers

  • @benleroux7571
    @benleroux7571 Рік тому

    Why is it JMPD that's dealing with this and not SAPS and SANDF???????

  • @niloluthers3296
    @niloluthers3296 Рік тому +1

    The police don't Stand a chance against the Zama Zama's they're like the Wagner Group from Russia

  • @xolanisabela
    @xolanisabela Рік тому

    Our metro police are in action bigup 👊

  • @Patshes
    @Patshes Рік тому +4

    Bring back the old riot squad and members this problem will be gone overnight!

  • @grootbaas9104
    @grootbaas9104 Рік тому +3

    They left it so long that it will take years if not decades to sort out. Our borders are non existent police are only reactive after the fact and never follow through consistently and continously there are many many more Zama Zamas that will continue once police move out.

  • @mzamomkhize8010
    @mzamomkhize8010 Рік тому +1

    Why our government is not deploying military?

  • @darrenjacobs7918
    @darrenjacobs7918 Рік тому +1

    Bring in the concrete trucks. Finished. Pour concrete down those holes and let's call it a day.

  • @paulap142
    @paulap142 Рік тому +1

    Pump water into the old mine shafts

  • @bladez837
    @bladez837 Рік тому +1

    The government should have taken action a long time ago, not to wait until the problem got out of hand,Cele the Minster of saps must go.

  • @loveCARP
    @loveCARP Рік тому

    Where is the Army, what do they do?

  • @sibusisomichaels
    @sibusisomichaels Рік тому

    Drones??? Where are they...saps helicopter 👀.

  • @mbusomabena9751
    @mbusomabena9751 Рік тому +1

    Legalize for what?? 😢

  • @aluncedosalayi9530
    @aluncedosalayi9530 Рік тому

    This is a sketch. There's just no way! If the police wanted to arrest these Zama Zamas they would have done it. You can't tell me the state could be defeated by a bunch of Zama Zamas in a gun fight.

  • @VivianVivian-om9hi
    @VivianVivian-om9hi Рік тому

    Batho baja monate Ka mo south Africa ba itaola Rori🙆🙆🙆🙆

  • @angrysocialjusticewarrior
    @angrysocialjusticewarrior Рік тому +5

    So a criminal syndicate that is performing acts of terror is not being advocated for by the MMC of police for their illegal operations to be legalized?
    What's next, legalizing heist crews? These illegal miners are illegal because they do not have a mining license which requires a mining operation to ensure that:
    - All safety protocols are followed for both the mine workers and the environment.
    - No criminal activity is performed in the mining operation.
    - All the mine workers are legal citizens and have legal permits to work in South Africa
    - demographic quotas are met (majority staff must be originally South African, not foreign workers).
    - All equipment used in the operation is safety compliant
    - All taxes and levies are paid to the government, including tax on salaries of workers who qualify for tax.
    - Health tests are performed on workers regularly to check their fitness to continue working.
    - and many other requirements.
    So if these illegal miners where doing all of those things, they would have already been given the paperwork to do their mining lawfully. The fact that they are "illegal" means they are intentionally breaking the law, they are not interested in mining legally.

  • @phumelelakhawula2796
    @phumelelakhawula2796 Рік тому

    taking a wild guess, we need more police

    • @corinnevanjaarsveldt6087
      @corinnevanjaarsveldt6087 Рік тому

      Nope. 10 honest reliable men of their word, who will truly die for justice and their families. They will make a plan.

  • @StuartAinslie-le8bo
    @StuartAinslie-le8bo Рік тому

    Really...

  • @Patshes
    @Patshes Рік тому +1

    Completely destroy the machinery.!

  • @jeromearends5618
    @jeromearends5618 Рік тому

    Failures of the ANC growing and growing.

  • @phumelelakhawula2796
    @phumelelakhawula2796 Рік тому

    where is the military that was plentiful available during "corona" times

  • @kamogelobigross707
    @kamogelobigross707 Рік тому +1

    The president should just fire bheki cele and apoint fit personel to tackle crime in SA

  • @thembekiletemba7120
    @thembekiletemba7120 Рік тому

    Where is SAPS😢

  • @darryljosephsmith2725
    @darryljosephsmith2725 Рік тому

    Police should use drones to find these illegal miners

  • @wondering8327
    @wondering8327 Рік тому

    Are illegal miners not foreigners?So they will be given rights to own mining powers in South Africa while South Africans are just watching?U are not thinking straight

  • @SbudaDriver
    @SbudaDriver Рік тому

    Metro yiyenza kancane... we need TRT there

  • @belindambalizzmthethwa9280
    @belindambalizzmthethwa9280 Рік тому +1

    They must arrest da managers and is a big shame South Africans are da ones who hired them, dis poor sothos must expose them once

  • @ChessNoobX
    @ChessNoobX Рік тому +1

    Police have r5 assault rifles vs ak47 and r5s...so they not underequipped for this situation

  • @witelenor575
    @witelenor575 Рік тому

    Making illegal mining legal? South Africa is a joke

  • @elizabethkotla6557
    @elizabethkotla6557 Рік тому

    Hai law and order its problem in Mzanzi! And tell me who is to be blamed 😢

  • @blueberryhill6948
    @blueberryhill6948 Рік тому

    Why are you guys talking so much let us hear the gun shots

  • @ThaboZulu-rg6qq
    @ThaboZulu-rg6qq Рік тому +1

    Its been years now the SA government knw that this rivalry is rife but then nothing has been done while in covid days it was easy to deploy the Army

  • @tonymog7681
    @tonymog7681 Рік тому

    Why they don't use airforce

  • @mmakatakiamaphepa6805
    @mmakatakiamaphepa6805 Рік тому

    We are only left with JMPD, can Mr Ramaphosa step down so that i can take over, we don't have a president anymore, imagine having JMPD as our last line of defence for our people, and Job well done JMPD, salute!

  • @kwandamkhize5862
    @kwandamkhize5862 Рік тому

    Uhulumeni wethu uvuna akutshalile njengoba ebavikela nje abokufika inkinga bahlupha thina yena upholile😌

  • @ednabengu-ep2im
    @ednabengu-ep2im Рік тому

    When MMC says he is going to legalise this what does he mean .These people are from Lesotho what about South Africans?

  • @Dj_Miyagi
    @Dj_Miyagi Рік тому +1

    ke leboga JMPD goba Matla go lwana lê this criminals ,unlike this coward saps

  • @thembalethuzuma9696
    @thembalethuzuma9696 Рік тому

    where is army?