Wire Recorders: the OG Magnetic Recording Technology
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- Опубліковано 5 тра 2023
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Wire recorders were the original magnetic recording technology, predating the modern tape recorder by 50 years. Instead of a coated plastic tape, they encoded audio magnetically on a thin steel wire. Their heyday was brief, lasting from 1945-1955 - after which the technology was superseded (except in specialized applications) by magnetic tape.
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www.madeinchicagomuseum.com/s...
museumofmagneticsoundrecordin...
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When I was a boy, we were dirt poor, mom worked as a cook, dad was disabled with no pay. So back then the City Dump was unmanned and open to the public, I had a buddy who lived down the street and we pretty much ran together. One of our favorite things to do was to hit the dump grounds and see what we could scavenge. I picked up a ton of old radios, tape recorders, and yes one of those wire recorders. My buddy claimed that and took it home, his dad fixed it up and they had a blast with the machine. I pretty much learned electronics by playing with the things from that city dump, and my buddies dad kept our tradition after we grew up and moved away. He was still doing dump ground trips twenty years ago till he ended up in the nursing home. He recently passed away at the age of 99 years and 300 days.
I refined and updated your methodology and now we have the phrase “Dumpster diver” in the English language.
Bring back city Dumps
I repaired a Webster Chicago for a friend not too long ago and made a video on it. It needed cleaning and a tube rejuvenated. The old crystal mic element went long ago. Those can be replaced by a ceramic mic, a more robust version. My friend wanted the recorder fixed enough to get the audio history his Swedish grandfather recorded on multiple reels to a more modern medium. One of the reels contained General Douglas MacArthur's "Fade away" speech recorded off of a radio. My friend's main concern is to get all of that Swedish translated! The recordings were surprising clear and consistent on most of the reels. I noticed that only one tube was replaced in its time with the original owner.
They sound much better than what was shown in this video. It's a shame he didn't have a good example. It was barely recognizable as piano music. I've heard many wire spools and they sound on par with a good decent quality AM radio station.
If that were me I'd find a way repair that art deco mic or at least keep the outer casing and replace the guts. It's beautiful.
@@RCAvhstape Open up the case and measure the mic cartridge then google "ceramic microphone", you may find a replacement that size or smaller. I did with my friend's, but he just wanted the playback only. There were used mic cartridges available that could fit in the mic housing.
I picked up one at a yard sale. Haven't tried power up yet.
Wow that's awesome
When I was but a kid about 8 or 9 years old back in the late 1950s my brother and I used to play with this exact Webster Chicago model. It belonged to my Dad who was a professional musician. We recorded made up story dramas, complete with soundtracks, and did pretend radio shows as the DJs. Then (of course) the wire would break and I think we spent most of our time untangling those big cotton candy like poof balls of wire that would happen when the wire broke. We spent hours and hours in the basement letting our imaginations run wild and playing with this wonderful old piece of technology back then. Great memories!
Magnetic tape recorders (the Magnetophon) had been invented in Germany and was first demonstrated in 1935 at the Berlin Radio Show and by 1943 a practical stereo model was in use. About 250 stereo tape recordings were known to exist prior to 1945, but only 3 still exist from that era. The electric condenser microphone was invented by E.C. Wente at Bell Laboratories in 1916.
The Magnetophon used ferrous oxide-coated paper tape.
The most likely problem with the record feature is the piezoelectric element in the microphone has deteriorated due to age and moisture. Most microphones and phono cartridges of that era used a material known as Rochelle Salts, and it has a tendency to absorb and retain moisture, and over a long period of time it decomposes into a lumpy powder - especially if the equipment sits idle for a long period of time, as I'm sure this wire recorder has. If you have a very old record player with this type of cartridge (most before about 1960), and it has sat in storage for a long period of time in the more humid geographical regions, they deteriorate in pretty much the same way.
There is probably a specialty company that could rebuild that microphone for you.
Rochelle salt can be grown into huge quartz or diamond like crystals and some people grow them just for the beauty of the crystal, to display it. I've seen videos online of people doing this.
Arthur Miller introduced this medium in his play "Death of a Salesman ". Thankyou for this fascinating presentation. XXX
Well done old chap - I was just about to write that!! The play premiered on Broadway in February 1949
@@jamesportrais3946 thankyou.I like the cut of your jib sir. Bish Bosh ect.
I had one of these machines years ago, and the recording quality was far better than what you demonstrated here. These machines need full overhauls to function properly. There are numerous old capacitors in the electronics that go leaky, and the bias oscillator has to be working perfectlyto get decent sound quality. Given a properly operating machine, I'd say the performance of this machine could rival that of a 50s consumer tape recorder operating at 3.75ips.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I restored one years ago, and the audio is really good. I have a video of it that I may post on my channel, but my fear is that I'll end up with a copyright strike. I did use that same song though on the 1947 Brush BK-401 reel-to-reel recorder that I have on my channel, so maybe not.
Techmoan made a video about them. There's a Webcor in it, and it does sound a lot better.
My dad had one that I used to play with. That one had a turntable base above the take-up reel and an arm so it doubled as a phonegraph.
My father told me about those, he worked with electronics. He said that erasing those wires was kind of difficult because steel needed much more field to be magnetized, you ended up sometimes with a remaining under the new recording (I suppose). I think that part of the distortion was because no bias was applied to the signal to compensate for the non-linearity of the magnetic medium.
I also wonder how much “print through” there is of magnetised wire wound against the other wires creating momentary echos of the signal
@@angusmcnaughton lots
I am always amazed to hear such old recordings.
I knew about the technology already, but thank you for this video. You deserve more subs.
A few years ago (2016) I bought a medium-sized box of random records for like $5. There were some interesting records in there by groups and bands that nobody today has ever heard of, lol. That was cool enough, but...
Amongst these discs, there were a handful of Recordio records - records for the actual record cutters they used to sell for consumer use. One was dated 1949, and was a recording of a small child singing with his (her?) mother, followed by some random conversation between the mother and someone else (her husband, I assume).
It's a little unnerving. Hearing voices of people I never knew, or even have a hope of knowing, in such an intimate setting from almost 70 years prior. The child is a senior citizen now.
It didn't help that the audio quality of those machines was never all that stellar to begin with, and the records tended to wear out after only a handful of plays, so the playback was kind of faint, scratchy, and distorted.
'Surreal' isn't the word.
Webcor/Webster - Chicago was sold in 1967, but they did survive as a nameplate into the 70's.
I have one wire recorder of the same form factor, but apparently a copy, I guess. As there is no capstan, the pitch is somewhat variable. To minimize the effect of reel diameter growth with added layers, the receiving reel is made large in diameter, and fixed, while the source reel is kept much smaller. The small one is removable, or easier to handle and mail or store. The sound quality at least on my unit is a far cry from any HiFi, but has obviously served its purpose for criminal investigation, i.e. storing suspect's or witnesses responses to questioning. That at least can be deduced from the paper note that tells the unit's only storage place is to be in the police chief's office.
quite amazing how long the wire recorders stuck around, considering the tape recorders were invented in 1935
Tape machines were invented in the 1930s, yes, but they were not of much better quality than the wire machines. It was the Germans in WWII who refined the idea into a far better system - the development of better recording medium, and the introduction of high frequency AC bias during the recording process. Bias allows for more thorough saturation of the magnetic recording material without the usual distortion.
So good was the quality of these German machines that they had apparently been used to misdirect the allies with regards to the actual location of Der Fuhrer, by playing speeches he'd recorded while he was very far from where the speeches were broadcast. Herr Goebbels also used these machines for propaganda and so forth.
The quality astounded the Americans when they captured this equipment and it was immediately bundled off to the States for further refinement. Ampex was probably the most prominent company working to do this, though BASF (in Germany) did much to refine .the tape medium itself.
15:12 The Protona Minifon P-55 L/S uses vacuum tubes. Incredible.
I had seen an old wire recorder spool that had dictation on it at the county medical examiner's office (or all places) and always wondered about the lost technology, so thanks for explaining.
Love the big bakelite switches
My dad had to fix one of these for Melbourne university. Apparently they tried using steel tape at first but the speed it travelled at made it too much of a hazard to peoples fingers.
That microphone is a crystal (piezoelectric) model, and the crystal elements in those frequently stop working over time. That may be your problem with the record function. Unfortunately, a standard microphone won't work for that unit without a beefy preamplifier, because modern mics put out a much lower level than those old crystal elements. If the mic is indeed bad, there are people out there that may be able to replace the mic element. I had that done for a crystal pickup on an old 78 rpm record player, and it works wonderfully now.
In the early days, Rochelle salt, a natural crystal, was used as a piezoelectric element, but it is hygroscopic (absorbs water) and can melt into a sticky mess! Later components used a synthetic ceramic element, so a later microphone or phono pickup might have what you need.
Piezo pick ups for acoustic instruments like fiddles and guitars as well as cheap phono cartridges any of which can be carefully cannibalized for the Cristal and used to repair the old mic . I have done this and it works well.
Well... today I learned I need a Minifon. That thing's AWESOME!
Fascinating. I've been tempted to pick one of from eBay but I already have too much junk. BTW, I actually own three Tefifon players. They in fact take up a lot of space.
Another UA-cam video (Made on Tape channel) of this machine stated that the microphones use crystal technology that self-destructs after enough years. There's a guy in Salem, OR that rebuilds the microphones. ua-cam.com/video/f5rcuuuV8F8/v-deo.html has the link to the guy in Oregon. BTW, I just inherited one of these so your video has come in very handy to help me use the thing (but I expect my mic to be dead as well). Thanks!
15:15 gives a new meaning to "wearing a wire".
That is the etymology of the term I believe!
The wire is much finer than I had anticipated; it’s clear that it was way more compact than wax or even early 78 rpm vinyl.
picked one up when i was a teen at a surplus store and luckily it was a reel-reel type and had a full side with wire!!! it worked!!
I wonder how that first recorder, debuted in 1900, worked. I think recording would be straightforward enough: if he used a carbon microphone, its resistance changed as it received vibration so I suppose just hooking it in series with the record head and a battery would be fine. But playback? How was it amplified? Did it even have a carbon microphone? I know those were common before ribbon and dynamic mics made their way into radio etc, but -- I have no idea! There are other ways to skin a transducer, so to speak. Fascinating. I've been enjoying your videos for a few months now, many thanks from north of you in Alaska hehehe
Also if you explained how it worked I missed it, apologies
I guess it was a matter of just dumping A LOT of current into the recording head and using a very sensitive speaker for playback. After all, early telephones would use the carbon mic and battery to send out sound, but the receiving was completely passive. And the Telegraphone was supposed to be hooked up to a telephone for recording and listening. Poulsen also developed arc converters, so I guess those could be used for public demos as over-complicated amplifiers.
@@IgnacyG1998 to use a physical analogy, without an amplifier, that passive setup would not move the speaker cone any more than a piece of wire or something in front of the wire as it passed, right? like the mechanical strength/deflection felt at the playback head is all the juice it would have, it couldn't then push a speaker cone any louder. sez me.
Wonderful presentation thank you
Gotta love that lofi flutter and nonexistent bass.
i have one of these, can still hear voices recorded back in the 1950s
An old episode of the Mission Impossible TV show was plotted around a wire recording - unfortunately I didn't know what wire recordings were as they had been supplanted by the time I saw the episode.
I repaired many 8 track tapes. You could clip out the bad section and use a small piece of tape to join the ends.
I have one of these - this model. it is beautiful, it works beautifully.
youtube buffering so bad this is unveiwable
this channel smacks thanks for the programs
Oo epic intro, digging the Cabinet of Curiosities
The microphone issue really depends here, you didn't show us how the circuits are so normally you want to look for an expanded capacitor but this might use vacuum tubes in which case you want to look for the tube that's not working. It may also be that the circuit has lost integrity or part of the physical plug component has either a faulty connection to the board maybe the solder has cracked or the plug internally. It could also be a similar issue in the microphone itself.
I have one of these! well mine is a slightly different model with a different metal plate around the spools and also a time counter that shows an estimate how much wire is left. I had to do a lot of work to get mine working, fixing the speaker, re-cap it. swap a tube and other additional stuff but in the end mine sound mostly better than yours and I can record audio as well with it. But the wire sure want to break on them, I think mine is a bit too worn in the head as the wire goes rather deep into the groove of it and impurities easily get stuck instead. but it is a really cool machine to have. after I got mine working again I found out that it been a companion for a band when they did reputations and recorded their songs on wire so I actually have the history of it as well :)
I have this same wire recorder. I also own a wonderful Sears Silvertone one as part of a 1947 console. I have about 25 original reels from 1947 to 1960 with many monumental worldwide events recorded. I have converted them to digital recordings. Your recorder might have distortion because is has not been restored.
I heard that the Germans had tape recorders (BASF) in WW2. Demonstrated in 1935.
You didn't address the fact the take-up reel is larger than the other reel. Would this be because during playback the wire is moving slowly and so the winding is a little looser than when re-winding quickly?
Has this unit been recapped or is it running on original parts?
hostie qu'ça fait Saint-Boniface ton affaire.. :) great video as always! thanks
I wonder how audio tape would go using rare earth (nickel and stuff) material instead of ferrite for the medium?
I learned about wire recorders after reading the original James Bond book, Diamonds Are Forever by Ian Fleming in which they feature.
It would be nice to know the price of these early machines.
10:50 - I don't believe that 'bias' had been invented before this recorder was made. Also, is the steel wire coated with oxide?
I have the same magnetophon but it has markings in Finnish. It weights at lest 50 kg. Very robust inside.
This would work great in cars in a post apocalypse
I have a machine from the 40s that I can use to record 78 records. Have you ever covered these machines on your channel?
Thanks.
Would anyone know what the intro music is? It sounds familiar.
I remember my Dad telling me about wire recorders when I was little, because I had found a reel of old Paper tape that they had stored away in a cupboard , I was used to the plastic variety, but had never seen paper before.
Which is what became Webcor, which produced Viscount radio and other radio products, like Webcor batteries.
Today i learned where the phrase "to wear a wire" came from.
I THOUGHT YOUR TITLE SAID **WINE RECORDERS!!** 😂😂
Another disadvantage of wire recorders is that you can't record on them in multiple tracks, such as stereo.
I heard that wiretap and the term wire fraud have it's roots in wire recorders.
You heard wrong. The wire reference is from telegraph which predates the wire recorder.
The first time I saw this was on an episode of Mission Impossible from 1960s
Cool
Thanks, just to note Dictaphone was a trade mark of Columbia, Edison callled tgeir dictation machines Edaphones
While WW I was anvoiadble WW II could have been stopped, what sort of tech would we would get
*_"You now know what Hell sounds like."_*
🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭
Still better than Beiber...
Ferrite? Is that iron?!
Schaub Lorenz also made a recorder like this, but combined with a 78 rpm record player ans as part of a radio.
Another problem is the lack of a capstan/pinch roller, so the record and playback speed isn't constant. Doesn't make much difference if you're always using the same machine (and with quality being so bad anyway), but generally the technology is conceptually flawed from the start.
This video has 11k views right now. Here’s my prediction. Ive been studying the UA-cam algorithm as if it was a stock market and if my intuition is correct, then your channel is about to see a MASSIVE influx of viewers and subscribers as soon as the algorithm starts recommending your videos to people who watch channels like Forgotten Weapons. I’m predicting this channel to have ~150k to 450k subs by 2025 and several videos which will have gained almost, if not over 2M views. Specifically the videos about the flechettes (that one’s gonna get a LOT of views) and the exploders and fresnel lens. Your video titles are really good too!
Can you please make time line of tape recorders in a shorter time without teleprompter.
Just write your thinkings in a few words and we will understand the whole concept.
One of the issues with wire recording is that the wire, of course, is round and that this causes distortion as the wire cannot be held rigidly in place.
I was thinking that with enough bias, wire could hold a lot of data and that it might be interesting to use a digital signal instead…
Thanks TechMoan
10:35 You can do MUCH, MUCH better than the quality here. A good strong interference free AM radio is about the quality you can get. It definitely isn't high fidelity even at its best, but is much better than what you are demonstrating. This wire just wasn't recorded very well. Either that or your unit is not working properly. What you are playing here is barely recognizable.
I'll bet AI could improve these old distorted recordings immensely.
It'd been cool if you all of sudden blurt out, "DJ...SPIN THAT SHIT!"
And then rap out one of Eminem's final hip-hop battle scenes in _8 Mile._
I must say I like a lot of the subjects you discuss.. but can't help but fall asleep during content.. you make exciting ideas boring AF... just saying
A significant amount of the distortion sounds age-related. Not the most durable medium ever.
Change that name "Messier" because you dress too spiffy
Too much talking .....
Huh ? I disagree
Stop copying techmoan