Thank you all for the kind and insightful comments!! Immediately after the release of this video and after reading through comments, a new theory has begun brewing in my head that may change some aspects of this theory but only strengthens my belief in it. May make another video in the near future, this time tying into Messmer.......
I'll try to clarify the issue... Melina is Marika's daughter and, in all likelihood, the Gloam-eyed Queen. Not an "emanation of Marika" because... what would be the point? Why the symbol on the eye otherwise..? The DLC... in a very lazy and ignoble way, resolves the issue. Beyond the "Messmer's sister" mentioned in the descriptions who has visions of fire, the cutscene of the Impaler's fight that precedes the second phase is the key: that scene wants to communicate to us that its possible to seal the cursed essence of a demigod in his eye, if necessary . That's what happened to Melina. We know that Maliketh defeated the queen and took the rune of death... it is easy to understand that it was he who sealed her essence, her dark eye. Marika wanted to eradicate death from her order, and Melina was literally the personification of death. We don't know whether she waged war against her mother to defend herself or out of ambition, but it's certain that Melina, in the game, tells us that this world needs indiscriminate death (probably she is convinced that death is indispensable for the natural cycle of things, Marika on the other hand has her traumas, sooo..). Now.. why is she memoryless and incorporeal in the game? The rune and her essence have been sealed, and probably since she is "Death" in a world where no one can die... she is suspended in a situation of "half existence" and this situation has devastated her so much that she has lost memory. Why does Melina only open her eye at the end of the Frenzy ending? Because she survives Maliketh's death. His rune has been unleashed, Marika's shadow has been slain, the seal is broken. In all other routes Melina sacrifices herself for us before Maliketh's fall. NOW.. here I enter the field of crazy speculation.. Gaius' descriptions suggest that Messmer was, for Radhan, a kind of older brother.. what? If he is Radagon's son, and he is, how can he act as an older brother to someone who technically... should have been born first? Radagon and Marika had children after Rennala's three children were born, right? No. In my opinion Messmer is an illegitimate son, Marika was messing around with her male half already when Godfrey was Elden Lord. And I'm pretty sure that Melina was practically born at the same time as Messmer (another damn twin birth, yes, it would be Marika's third). Two twins, one with the blasphemous serpent and the other with the black flame of death, never officially recognized (even more so, if Messmer's throne is missing in Morgott's monologue... how is it? Radahn knows him, and the rest of the kingdom don't..?). And here lies the fascinating difference between the two twins. Messmer, head down, repressed and obedient son, takes on a ruthless crusade, painting himself the image of a horrible leader. Melina, however, rebels against Marika's wishes, and is put down by her dog. She loses her memory, is entrusted with a mission by her mother... and in the end she decides to sacrifice herself by choice, to save the world she loves. Melina is an incredible character, on paper... From didn't want to tell us.
I still like Tarnished Archeologist's argument that the Erdtree has been burned once already by the beginning of the game, with Leyndell already being full of ash and all doors/windows sealed to keep ash out. And the Erdtree no longer being a physical tree but only a spiritual construct of a tree, save for a few parts that we can see aren't golden. So I'm thinking that Melina's body was used to burn the physical Erdtree but the spirit of both Melina and the Erdtree remained for some reason (probably Marika's schemes), until you burn her spirit again to burn the spiritual Erdtree's thorns. There's still a lot of room for this to fit with other theories, but it's not something that I'm seeing many if any take into account.
@@ripptides yeah it’s cool to see someone take multiple interests and passions (art, video games, Elden ring, etc) and find a way to blend them all together. It’s such a unique and hyper specific form of expression that I, and seemingly many others, vibe with!
The Gloam-eyed Queen is a moniker of destined death for Queen Marika the Eternal to “conquer” adding legitimacy to her reign. I think Melina much like her older brother did what was asked of her. Marika had a lot of people she wanted dead before sealing the rune of death in Maliketh’s sword. Tinfoil hat, Melina’s body was used to burn the Ancient Erdtree & instigated the war with the giants.
I agree that she burned her true body to burn the original physical form of the erdtree. For some reason the burning was incomplete though because both of them remain in spiritual form still. But then at the end of the game she burns her spiritual form too and this burns the phantom erdtree as well
The small issue with that is that Maliketh still wielded Destined Death, it wasn't sealed until Ranni stole a piece of it ( otherwise she couldn't have stolen it )
@@draghettis6524 It was sealed in Maliketh's sword after the Gloam-Eyed Queen was "defeated". The Black Blade was Marika's WMD trump card. That they weren't expecting anyone would attempt to steal. Ranni's position and possibly other conspirators more than likely provided the intel that it could be stolen. After the Night of Black Knives Maliketh seals the rune within himself.
@@Ironbreeze53 It wasn't really sealed, when it became Maliketh's sword. Just transformed, or housed. Sealed would imply it can't do anything, but it very much does a lot of things, as evidenced by the everything his sword and the black knives do. And yeah, Maliketh is Marika's greatest servant. A second leal hound to the Golden Order, but one that follows Marika before anyone else. A monopoly on True Death, for her and her alone. Someone even the demigods were terrified of.
almost no one from the base game is part of the dlc because they didn’t want it to conflict with the game files i.e somebody being dead in the base game but appearing in the dlc
Check out the frenzied flame ending. Even though Melina leaves and doesn't aid you anymore when you accept the three fingers, she reappears at the end saying "Lord of Frenzied Flame...I will seek you, as far as you may travel. To deliver what is yours. Destined Death."
5:30 The Gloam-eyed queen didn't need to steal destined death in order to use it, as she possessed it before Maliketh (item desc. of Godslayer's Greatsword), and it was taken by Maliketh when he defeated her. And because She possessed the rune before Marika sealed it away in Gurranq/Maliketh, It's strange to assume that she was born when the rune was removed, 6:10. Unless She was created via the Rune of Death's removal (no lore precedent for tampering with the Elden ring creating beings), was given the rune of death by Marika for, some reason (?), and then fell into conflict with Marika, and was defeated by Maliketh. Additionally, why would Melina be referred to as a daughter of Marika, much less a sister of Messmer if she was created via the removal of the rune of death from the Elden ring? The only instance of accidentally created beings being referred to as children of said accidental creator is Millicent and her sisters, who are literally pieces of Malenia's [mind/body/soul(?)], and even then, its indirect, as it is stated by Gowry. It's more likely that Melina is simply Messmer's sister, and was given the rune of death by Marika because, at the time, Marika had no reason to distrust her, Then, perhaps because of a curse (child of Marika) or some grievance with the golden order, she created the Godskins and marched against the Erdtree and was Defeated by Gurranq, and her physical body burned, leaving her a spirit, like we find her in the game. Sorry for the entire book, but there's a lot to digest here. And sorry if it sounds a bit negative.
I'm with you on that, it wouldn't be the only time a rebellion happened from the margins of society ( because yes, Death is pretty much relegated to the margins by the Golden Order, it's its very foundation ), that's literally what Marika herself did, and what we Tarnished can do in some endings.
My thoughts are that Ranni stole the rune from Melina, and when that happened, Marika sealed the rune and, with it, Melina's corporeal form. I'm unsure if Melina is the Gloam-Eyed Queen or an Empyrean representing her.
@@draghettis6524 "Death is pretty much relegated to the Golden order" That is accurate if you mean destined death, however, ghostflame existed before the elden ring, and thus, the Golden order. I agree w/ the rest of the comment.
Same thing that happened to Mesmer, happened to Melina. Flame Snake Gloam Eyed Queen cursed their blood. One got his eye torn out and replaced by Grace, one has their eye sealed shut. Melina is locked up for a while. Then either because she can be used as kindling for magic trees, or because she needed to be free. Her body was burned like the Hornsent. Who can only exist in the shadow realm. But she can come and go in areas of Grace. Or at least be seen and interacted with.
That actually kind of makes sense. The Erdtree was placed upon the roots of the Greattree, presumably what is now the Scadutree. The Scadutree and the Shadow Lands that it overshadows are closely related to the crucible that beings grow horns from. We know that people are (or were) absorbed into and born from the Erdtree, like how Millicent is born from a Scarlet Aeonia bud in Caelid. The Erdtree is still connected to that crucible through it's roots, so that might be root the cause of the Omen Twins's crucible aspects. If, then, the Gloam Eyed Queen's runes/lifeforce was used to create two children, then it would make sense if they inhabit features similar to the Queen's, in much the same way as the Omen Twins.
1:17 I think radagon was ALWAYS the second half of Marika; remember that that's a heavily guarded secret In-universe, even if we all know it. Who's to say it wasn't always true?
@@vijay5 well if you go to the shaman village you find the incantation ''minor erdtree''. if you ever summoned melina for the morgott fight you can see that she uses exactly that incantation. it means they are directly connected to each other. there was a similiar thing about gwyn and gwynevere in dark souls before, which suggested that gwyn is her father. i mean you could maybe think that melina is just a shaman too but since messmers kindling talks about a sister and that their purpose is only one thing its basically confirmed melina is the sister of messmer and daughter of marika
@@m.l.2871 and thats not all but minor erdtree is a Secret incantation of Queen Marika. the kindness of gold, without Order. For Melina to have such a secret must mean their relationship and connections are Important
True... ...but... ...you only see that cutscene AFTER Melina is SUPPOSED to sacrifice herself. And in the frenzied flame ending... she BECOMES the next Gloam Eyed Queen.
@@chaz706nah, she doesn't become the next Gloam Eyed Queen, she has always BEEN the Gloam Eyed Queen, the Gloam Eyed Queen was defeated in the past, never killed (to my knowledge)
Melina does seem to be the gloam eyed queen and all the events of the gloamed eyed queen likely happen during the time of Marika started to war with the other people of the lands between and after messmer's crusade but before Godfrey became elden lord or just around that time. Melina is not a child of Radagon and Marika, she's the child of Marika and the man in the statues of enir-illim. Everything about Messmer fire and melina's burned body point to them being heavily connected to the fell god of fire, who is the basis for the hornsent religion. The ember of messmer physical description is "Serpentine, cord-like ember". The cord part is very important as the hornsent were inspired by the spiral and one particular ornament we see everywhere is that of a twisted curtain and twisted hair into braids like a cord. Another is that is capable of burning the sealing tree, the only other flame capable is that of the flame of ruin which lies in the lands between and is also powered by the fell god. The Godslayer's Greatsword is a spiral great sword. There are more items connecting Melina and messmer to the hornsent than to Radagon and his Golden Order. Every Magic Radagon uses has his # themed rune and/or circle in its manifestation when used.
I reckon that Messmer was born out of wedlock between Radagon and Marika, and Melina never met Radagon. It is a possibility Marika was pregnant with Melina when she went to the Divine Gate. Then after the foundation of the Golden order and Marika's union with Godfrey, she was given the purpose of bearing the Rune of Destined Death. After which she was killed, and her remains were burned by Maliketh (in my mind this is when he would have sealed away the Rune of Destined Death within his sword) in her adolescence when it became clear that she was growing too powerful and assembling a loyal base of Godskin Apostles, posing a potential threat to Marika's own regime. To me this is why she appears as the ghost of a burned girl with her (gloam) eye sealed shut. As to the Miquella and St.Trina thing we also know that there is a strong possibility that Radagon and Marika started out as separate individuals, based on dialogue with Melina at a site of grace in the Capital City. it might be possible that St. Trina and Miquella could have also been separate at one time as well. Nowhere does it state that both parties have to be Numen or Numen Shamans for their flesh to meld harmoniously with others. So St.Trina could have possibly been a regular human at one point. Maybe even a childhood sweetheart of Miquella's. That's something I have been pondering since I found the Shaman Village. I could also be very very wrong about all of it.
Best I’ve heard this explained and solved some of my previous issues with the theory. Would love to hear follow ups as the theory crafting evolves further to address some of the things mentioned in comments or a video dedicated to going over comments
Melina might be actually part of Mesmer. Like Radagon and Trina. Mesmer could have tried to take away his serpent but could only remove part of him. That would explain why the god skins have snake like stuff going on. The noble has a serpent tale and the apostle can stretch his body just like the man serpent in vulcano manor. Also serpents change their skins. So the reason why those guy take do that crazy stuff might be a way of worship the abissal serpent. Because chave skin can be associated with death of the old and born of the new. Melina is very fascinating with the circle of life and death since she hate the frenzy flame. Anyway that is may theory about Melina. Nice video.
Melina tells us who she is herself, “The one who walks alongside flame, Shall one day meet Destined Death.” And she’ll go on to “deliver unto us what is ours, Destined Death,” if we become the LoFF or LoC. Given what we know about Messmer, it’s safe to say they were both born to burn down their respective trees when the time came. A child of light and one of darkness; Erdtree and Scadutree. Melina also talks about life, births, and the beauty in the cycle. With life comes destined death, and vice versa; Messmer’s abyss represents the absence thereof which is why I believe Marika trapped him away, and used his curse to stop anyone from making the same mistake she made in becoming a god in the process when she blocked off Enir Ilim, two birds with one stone so to speak. Edit: As for how she ends up burned and bodiless, I think that’s something we can only speculate and quibble over. Either way, I think it’s safe to say it has to do with Miquella’s decision to burn the Erdtree and Scadutree seeing as both have to be destroyed for his Age of Light/Compassion to be a thing, and she’s in possession of Torrent. People might want to say Ranni might have something to do with it, and she might, but I think her only connection to Melina is through Miquella anyways, as I believe Miquella and Ranni were both behind the Night of Black Knives (that’s why Godwyn and Malekith were so easily defeated; by Miquella’s love), only Ranni betrayed Miquella in order to achieve her goal of ruling in her Age of Stars, ruining Miquella’s plan to make Godwyn the vessel for Radahn’s soul.
5:32 Marika tore out the rune of death from the Elden ring, so that no one she loved would die, effectively making the Demi gods “immortal”. She placed the rune of death under the protection of the gloam eyed queen (seemingly abandoning her in favor of her golden child). Not wanting to end up like her elder brother, that and she was not as loyal as he was, she decided to use the rune of death and imbue it with the “vision of flame” the her and her brother shared. From here it is speculation, as I assume she created destined death via the joining of her flames and the rune of death. That’s why Maliketh defeating the gloam eyed queen removed the godskins ability to fell a “god”
Actually.. this feels kinda solid. Taken in context with her threat and frenzy flame ending. I will follow you wherever you might go and bring you what you deserve... destined death
I think your argument is indeed compelling and I agree that Melina is quite likely the Gloam-Eyed Queen. I especially like the theory that the flame that burned Melina was no other than the black flame of destined death itself. You had the theory that when Maliketh sealed Destined Death away, Melina was robbed of her power, the very element she was the unintended child of, remaining as the spectre we know her as. I have a theory that I actually like more and also another completely crazy one: My theory: As the Kindling Maiden Melina fulfilled her visions of fire and burned herself and the Erdtree to the ground with her own flame. There are multiple theories that the current Erdtree is a provisory projection as its bounty has dried up, this could be the reason. This could also be why Melina knows so well how to burn the Erdtree. Crazy theory: Melina was burned in Messmers flame to destroy the Fire Giants. As one can see in the Mountaintops, there are many dead Giants. The first thing that comes to peoples mind when they see that is Deathroot, as the Giants are impaled similarly. But when you look at the impaling Spears, they look nothing like the tendrils of Deathroot. It also makes no sense, as Deathroot is a product of Godwyns halfdeath, which happened much later. But what these spears look VERY similar to is Messmers spears, which we know he can conjure multiple out of his flame. So Marika forces her unintended rival to power up her son a bit. Problem with this is we don't know how the Land of Shadow was separated from the Lands Between, trapping Messmer there. Theory is that removing the Rune of Destined Death separated these two parts of the world. But then if Melina was born of the Rune of Death itself, this would disprove this theory. There is one thing I don't quite agree with in what you said: I don't think Marika "shed" the Rune of the Unborn. I've heard a theory that Marika shed unwanted parts of herself through Radagon and her children, cursing Morgott, Mogh, Melania and Miquella. This could also explain why Marika lost faith in the Golden Order, as all of that went into Godwyn, either unintentionally or intentionally with unwanted side effects. But the Great Rune of the Unborn is still very mystifying, as it was gifted to Rennala BEFORE the shattering of the Elden Ring. What I hear a lot is that Marika used this Rune to create Radagon, but I think Radagon is part of Marika as I hinted at earlier. This rune was used to give Radagon, part of Marika an independent body apart from Marika. When he returned to her it was no longer needed and he gave it to Rennala as a consolation gift. This still does not explain where the Rune of the Unborn came from, but Marika has plucked the manifestation of death from the Elden Ring, why not do the same with the manifestation of birth?
Damn dude, that connects a lot of dots! Figuring out how all the DLC revelations apply to the maingame has been a real treat. A lot of people seemed to be upset there was no direct lore about GEQ but there's enough evidence here to suggest that isn't the case. Great work!
I always thought the age of dragons was way before the erdtree. And when the dragons besieged Leyndell it was kind of the last hurrah. The order of dragons was broken. Their God fled, their Lord lost to Time, and so the last remnants the last of the dragon lords tried to keep the dawning of a new age back. A lot of the subjects and Magic’s and runes and orders in this games lore are paradoxes. They exist as both a physical object, as state of mind and being, an order or law of the universe and nature, and a magical or supernatural force. Like the Elden ring and golden order. The Elden beast and elden ring, the runes of the elden ring and the Elden ring still inside marika. Or the fact that the elden beast is the personification of said ring which is both inside a Gods Husk and having been shattered scattered as greater runes we collect. Each one representing both the physical and cosmological and metaphysical laws and forces of nature of this world. So is the fact that the age of dragons and Faram Azula is of an older age mean they and the dragons no longer exist as a part of this age and time line? Or is the fact that the elden ring was shattered suspend time in general here in game. Cause that’s a thing no one mentions much. We die and are reborn so many times, each rebirth takes a certain time. So maybe a millennium passed since we died. Maybe that’s why there even is a storm outside of time, because time exists differently here in this world. How long ago was the shattering? How long ago did Marika Ascend? How long about was the age of dragons? How long ago was it since the Night of knives? And how long did Maliketh have the rune of death before the night of knives happened! Cause that was when he sealed it away. Before that he had it but it was obviously vulnerable if ranni stole a fragment. The entire point of sealing it away is to protect it and the world from its influence and power. So many question unanswered and so little perspective to go on.
Ah, someone else who goes along with this theory. I didn't think of Placidusax as being her lord and the dragons her allies but it fits. As for her leaving the Blade of Calling, I think it was a message. The Blade is associated with the Numen through it's similarity with the Death corrupted Black Knives of the Numen/Nox Back Knife Assassins and by abandoning it Melina declares she is nomlonger aligned with the Numen but with the Outer God of Death and forges her own Crucible themd blade to signify this. Tbh, I kind of would like to have seen Gloam-Eyed Queen Melina in her prime. I imagine she makes an excellent villian. Melina's betrayal is also what likely hardened Marika to her children. If one could do it, any could do it and Ranni did do it.
Love it! Melina is totally the Gloam eyed queen for all the reasons stated. Additionally an item description mentions how the GEQ made black flame by imbuing her flame with destined death (so Melina having a regular flame originally as seen with the smoldering butterflies makes sense) and she definitely came to be an empyrean after Marika’s ascension (since Melina was selected by her two fingers and all, which weren’t doing that before Marika’s new order). Also the term ‘queen’ is pretty interchangeable with Marika’s godhood, so Melina styling herself as such makes sense if she was trying to usurp her mother. Whereas Messmer was born inflicted by an outer god, I think Melina sought it out after learning of her empyrean status. She prob took on the ghost flame god like Mohg did the formless mother.
i do like this theory. what makes it interesting to me is the placi and GEQ pairing. item descs say that "it is said" the GEC was an empyrean chosen by the fingers, and also "it is said" placi was elden lord in the time before the erdtree, so pairing both of these people up together makes for some intriguing conversation. I will say, if they were both paired together, placi is said to have been lord in the age before the erdtree, so i would place some of these events before the giants were slain and the flame was confined atop the mount, as the age of the erdtree started after the flame was confined. one of my theories is Melina held the the fell god of fire, because she has to get close to the confined flame stop the mount in order to channel it. and if she was the GEQ this might make sense, does fire + rune of death = black flame? when maliketh has the rune of death, he doesn't wield black flame, but he still wields the black blade. much to think about with all of this.
Good video and some compelling ideas here! My personal theory is that Melina is *Ranni's* other self, or a manifestation that was created when Ranni freed her soul from her body. Ranni could have had a fire affinity and actually be the younger sister referred to in Messmer's Kindling, then, when Ranni split herself off, she could have left the aspect of herself in tune with fire in Melina. Spirits and souls are said to be born from and return to the Erdtree, so Melina could have been manifested in the Erdtree without necessarily being Marika's child. This would also explain why Melina only ever talks about being born of a mother, and still squares the whole "within the Erdtree" thing, her mother isn't in the Erdtree, Melina was just born inside of the Erdtree. I have lots of other evidence and reasonings, but I'll keep it brief. My theory also heavily relies on speculation and some leaps haha. The biggest issue I see with mine is probably the butterflies. While we never get an explicit recognition that the butterflies are directly from/representative of the children of R+M, it seems pretty settled at this point. It'd be strange if one of the butterflies represented a child of R+R instead.
A speculation that actually make sense, she talks about destined death, burning the erdtree with the flame of ruin, and mesmer remembrance talks about a sister of him who bore a similar vision of fire... Burning the erdtree... in her appearance in the freizied flame ending her eye is taking a gloam color , same color as the beast's eye that maliketh gives us to track destined death or death root. This eye is marked with 3 claws marks, milena has like 3 claw marks tattooed just beside her closed eye. Sure maliketh have no little claws but now we got to the vulgar militians who actually fits the bill, they are small enough the leave such marks, they wield destined death like the black blade kindreds, meaning they roll for maliketh. You can find them on forbidden places like tombs, in the FORBIDDEN LAND (wich I think was milena's HQ & it's also guarded by a black blade kindred) , the DLC and it's said in their item description. So after defeating her they stole the rune of death, her eye, and her sword. After that she continued to exist as the milena we know but with no remembrance of her past, much like maliketh & gurranq are to separate personalities. Gurranq being the cool cleric beast and maliketh being the savage beast. Thanks for the video 💪.
I believe the GEQ is destined death, and melina inherented the Gloam eyes from marika, marika was the GEQ but when she sealed away destined death she also sealed away that aspect of herself. Melina and Messmer both inhereted sealed aspects of the GEQ. Messmer the snake aspect, and Melina the Gloam Eyes.
Except that isn’t possible, gloam eye queen raised the godskin slayers and was defeated. She was death itself before probably before marika became a god. So marika had the aspect of death killed and her rune sealed. We specifically know she was a empyrean chosen by her own two fingers If she was defeated and destined death stolen she wouldn’t still be alive. Malekith would use destined death on her and kill her.
My personal theory related Melina/GEQ to Dragons, too, but in a different way, maybe complementary to yours. To me, the curse mark/tattoo in both Melina and GEQ eyes isnt from a bird claw, but from a Dragon claw. I tend to think of Lansseax, sister of Placidussax. Lannseax was an ancient female dragon who had a human form, as a sorceress. Remember Vyke, who was close to become Elden Lord, but instead went mad to the frenzy flame? Lansseax, in her human form as a sorceress, is stated to have been in love with Vyke, became his maiden, and lost him due to the frenzy flame. Remember how strongly Melina/Geq are opposed to the frenzy flame... first she threats us, then she abandons us, then she vows to pursue and kill us. Just because we followed the frenzy flame. ¿Maybe because she lost her previous lord for it? Melina says too that she's burnt and bodyless, and we find a burnt maiden close to where we fight Vyke. So yeah... in my convoluted headcannon, GEQ and ence Melina are future, alternate forms and beings of Lansseax.
I mean I am pretty much 80% sure at this point that Melina is Gloom-eyed queen. If we look at her room in the capital it is more a prison cell than a room. And there is also one of Raykard's inquisitor's body sitting outside of room who looks like he has been scortched. Now, it is said that she was defeated by Maliketh which kinda makes sense since she is more spirit now than actual being. What I disagree about is the connection with dragons. It is not out of this world to think that Elden Ring, being instrument of outher god, was forced on this world during the times before Marika. Especially if we look the shape of it inside Maliketh boss room. It is completely different. Also it is said that Placudisax's god left the known world.
Great Video. I wanted to bring up some idea that I don't think support the idea but may there is away to explain them or I am missunderstanding parts of the video. When I started adding sources, this sort of blew out of control so sorry for the long read. The Gloam Eyed Queens defeat is what leads to Destine Death being sealed and the start of the Golden Order. How can Melina be the GEQ if she was created by this process. She was also born at the foot of the Erdtree (as said), so did the Golden Order start after the Erdtree? Godslayer's Greatsword Sacred sword of the Gloam-Eyed Queen who controlled the Godskin Apostles before her defeat at the hands of Maliketh. Godskin Apostle Hood Hood made by sewing together patches of smooth skin. Worn by the Godskin Apostles. The apostles, once said to serve Destined Death, are wielders of the god-slaying black flame. But after their defeat by Maliketh, the Black Blade, the source of their power was sealed away. Finger Reader Enia "The Rune of Death goes by two names; the other is Destined Death. The forbidden shadow, plucked from the Golden Order upon its creation..." Mending Rune of the Death-Prince (I am aware of the JP translation stuff) ...The Golden Order was created by confining Destined Death. Thus, this new Order will be one of Death restored. Messmer was born during the reign of Godfrey. The latest he was born was during Radagons marriage to Rennala, since he was as an elder brother To Radhan. The earliest he was born was after the Golden Lineage, Messmer is a Demigod, as Godricks great rune says. Remembrance of the Wild Boar Rider Remembrance of Commander Gaius, hewn into the Scadutree. The power of its namesake can be unlocked by the Finger Reader. Alternatively, it can be used to gain a great bounty of runes. Both were as elder brothers to the lion, and both were cursed from birth. In spite of, or perhaps because of this very reason, Gaius was both Messmer's friend and the leader of his men. Godrick's Great Rune A Great Rune of the shardbearer Godrick. Its blessing raises all attributes. This Great Rune is known as the anchor ring, found in the center of the Elen Ring. The first demigods were The Elden Lord Godfrey and his offspring, the golden lineage. I do not think Melina is an Empyrean. Ranni mentions the Empyreans she knows of. Only herself, Miquella and Melina. So she does not know about the Gloam Eyed Queen. As said in the video it seems Melina was held in Lyndell for a time, would Ranni not know her? Ranni also would know who Messmer is since he hanging out with her brother. So Messmer is not an Empyrean. Messmer and Melina are brother and sisters and I think born of Radagon and Marika. Red hair, fire, cursed beings, Messmers boss music is very similar to Radagons. The reason Malina and Miquella are empyrean is because they were born of a single God, Messmer (and likely Melina) were not. We know Messmer was born before Radagon and Marika married, they could still have been the same person at the time but Radagon was not yet a God. Remembrance of the Rot Goddess Remembrance of Malenia, Goddess of Rot, hewn into the Erdtree. The power of its namesake can be unlocked by the Finger Reader. Alternatively, it can be used to gain a great bounty of runes. Miquella and Malenia are both the children of a single god. As such they are both Empyreans, but suffered afflictions from birth. One was cursed with eternal childhood, and the other harbored rot within. In Marika's own words. O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self. On the Great Rune of the Unborn Demigod(s). Great Runes only appeared after the Elden Ring was smashed. The demigods received new found power that gave them their mad taint, only after the Elden Ring was smashed. Great runes are also inherited and can be proof of lineage, so it is not like Demigods just grabbed them. I believe the Great Runes manifested in the bodies of their Demi Gods and then morphed to take on the function that best serves their host. Ranni discarded hers (primitively) by killing her body. Miquella discards his while he is discarding his flesh. The Elden Ring is housed in the vessels body, so the Great Runes should work the same way. The Demigods have to be killed for their Great Runes to be taken and the Fingers must give benediction to sanction the new host. It is for these reasons that I believe the Great Rune of the unborn manifested inside an unborn demigod that dwells in the Amber egg, given by Radagon. It is an egg after all, likely from the amber of the Erdtree and amber contains the vitality of life. The unborn demi god does not have a name. This is what makes the naming of this Great Rune sound special, like it is a different type of Rune, a title rather than just saying whos rune it is. The need of the unborn Demi God, is to be born, so that is the purpose the Great Rune morphs to have. I don't think it had this power while in the Elden Ring but maybe it did, and Marika could have used it at the time. We never kill this unborn demigod, so the Rune does not require benediction. But we do control the Rune since it is the egg. Finger Reader Enia Ahh, Great Runes are the stuff of demigods; the children of the goddess, Queen Marika. She who is vessel of the Elden Ring. Tainted by the strength of their runes, her children warred, but none could become Elden Lord. Morgott's Great Rune A Great Rune of the shardbearer Morgott. Its blessing greatly raises maximum HP. This Great Rune is the anchor ring that houses the base, and proves two things: That the Omen King was born of the golden lineage, and that he was indeed the Lord of Leyndell. Radahn's Great Rune A Great Rune of the shardbearer Radahn. Its blessing raises maximum HP, FP and Stamina. Radahn was amongst the children of Rennala and Radagon, who became demigod stepchildren after Radagon's union with Queen Marika. The Great Rune burns, to resist the encroachment of the scarlet rot. (Radhan only had rot later on, not when he received the rune) Finger Reader Enia Ahh, Great Runes are the stuff of demigods;... "The Greater Will has long renounced the demigods." "Tarnished, show no mercy. Have their heads. Take all they have left." "The Fingers have willed it so." Sellen "Golden amber contains the remnants of ancient life, and houses its vitality" Placi can not be Elden Lord to Melina. Although I do think he may be the consort of the Golam Eyed Queen. He was Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree and Melina was born at it's foot. Also he is an Elden Lord which would require his God to be the vessel for the Elden Ring. Miquella (and others) become Gods but do not have the Elden Ring and it is never said that their Lords are Elden Lords. Remembrance of the Dragonlord Remembrance of Dragonlord Placidusax, hewn into the Erdtree. The power of its namesake can be unlocked by the Finger Reader. Alternatively, it can be used to gain a great bounty of runes. The Dragonlord whose seat lies at the heart of the storm beyond time is said to have been Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree. Once his god was fled, the lord continued to await its return.
I don’t think Rad ever separated from Marika. I think they just were that dedicated to their plot that they would let each other take control for long periods of time
I think that the reason they don't give more info on Melina is that she fulfilled her purpose. She acted the role as a maiden for us, to allow us to become elden lord. It's precisely because she's a spirit and has no body that we're able to succeed where the other tarnish all failed, because once they lost their finger maidens, they couldn't turn runes into strength and wouldn't have been able to burn Radagon's thorns away. Volcano manor and Mogwyn Dynasty were both targeting finger maidens directly to stop the tarnished, so sending Melina out would have been a last chance attempt by queen Marika to ensure that our tarnished could succeed. No one at the roundtable knows about Melina helping us, so that could be why Gideon says "No one can become the elden lord" since he and the other tarnished had lost their maidens.
My guess is that the conflict arose over the Destined Death, and Melina was torn between her duty to guard it and the love for her mother. This is why Marika sent Maliketh to deal with her. He "defeated" her, which implies she wasn't completely eliminated. God, this would be such drama worthy of GRRM
Okay, this is possible. It makes more since when you accept that Marika merged with the Elden Beast/Elden Ring in a jar and that each child of Marika is part of the Elden Ring just as much as they are a part of Marika. Her children don't need the Great Runes to have their power, but they do need them to become more powerful. Then once Melina was defeated by Maliketh the Rune of Death was removed so that another child of Destined Death could not be reborn again. It makes since in that way. It also makes since then that Melina would have been the one who headed the Black Knives first and set the Nox to make the Finger Slayer blade to kill Metyr. If you are familiar with that theory.
This simply can't be true, the gloom eyed queen is long dead before melina was born. I believe those golden threads we see in the trailer is Marika taking the gloom eyed queens great rune from her corpses. Possibly after she was killed by Malikath. Melina and messmer is most likely the first children of Marika and Radagon after godhood. You can tell they are children of them because they both have red hair and afflictions. My only question I why dosnt miquella have red hair...he's the ONLY child that's affected but dosnt have there fathers red hair, but blond like his mother's.
With no concrete timeline of events beyond what we are told in game, there is no saying when the events with the Gloam-Eyed Queen took place. The only information we have via the item descriptions associated with her as well as the Rune of Death have only two events we know have occurred: 1) The Rune of Death was removed from the Elden Ring at the establishment of the Golden Order (Rune of Death item description). 2) Destined Death was sealed upon the defeat of the Gloam-Eyed Queen (Godskin Apostle Robe item description). The events that occur between these two events is left intentionally nebulous as Fromsoft tends to leave the exact timeline of events vague within their games. On the topic of Melina and Messmer, as I addressed in the video, Messmer MUST be one of the first children born under Marika as he is an older brother to Radahn, who is born BEFORE Marika and Radagon come back together (unless Marika and Radagon had kids before Marika got with Godfrey, which feels unlikely). Hence why i believe the reason Messmer looks the way he does is because Marika had yet to split from Radagon, as we know she inevitably does as Radagon goes on to marry and bear kids with Renalla. It is interesting that Miquella is the only demigod with Radagon's influence to not have Red Hair, though. That's very interesting, actually
@@ripptides your right, we don't have a accurate timeline, but we do have context clues. Much like law of casualty. By removing the rune of death Marika was imprisoned in the erdtree. However we know by melina, she was born from the erdtree. Possibly like how millicent is born from a scarlet bloom. It's possible the death of the gloom eyed queen could have a similar birth ritual in death. Maybe millicent is a child born of Marika but she's also unaware of her existence. But we DO know melina and messmer are related by his embers item description. I do see the connection, but not as the same person. Tho miquella needs further investigation
@@leonlacroix2638 Marika wasn't imprisoned within the Erdtree for the removal of Death, she was imprisoned for The Shattering. We're told via the Rune of Death item description that that her removing the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring is what marked the founding of the Golden Order itself. And yes, Melina and Messmer are related, I still believe they are by all accounts siblings, just that Melina comes far later in the timeline rather than being born just after him, though it is entirely possible that Messmer and Melina were born one after the other. My thought as to why Miquella may have golden locks like Marika and Godwyn is perhaps golden locks signify a sort of importance, like fortelling they are destined for some form of greatness. Only Godwyn was stripped of his opportunity during the Night of Black Knives. That's just speculation though, its hard to say as it stands
@House_of_Green Mesmer was left within the land of Shadow long before Marika ascended to godhood (or at least before the shattering). Once the Elden ring was shattered all of Marikas children born in the lands between claimed a piece of the Elden ring and that became their great runes. Since Messmer was in the land of Shadow he was never able to claim a piece of the Elden ring. He's still an empyrean just one without a rune. Hope this helps. I tried to remember all I could
Because melina was presented as someone unique with connections to other significant characters but only did what any other finger maiden could do. We wanted her to do something interesting in the story but she just doesn't do anything like that.
You explained it pretty clearly, yet this ended up hard to follow LOL. Guess that's just Elden Ring lore for you. I'm going to have to watch a video on how Melina is the glowmight queen for a bit of context, but wow she had more lore than I thought. Not sure there's enough evidence to say she is destined death for sure, but I can definitely see the connection. This is awesome.
Thank you! Yeah I realized after the fact that people may not be familiar with the "Melina is the Gloam-Eyed Queen" theory so that's my bad. I just hear it so often I assumed most folks have heard it at some point lol
They dropped the ball so hard with Melina and that ending cameo really made no sense to me. Why would she even be alive anymore since in DLC we learn that even spirits are burned by Flame of Frenzy? Why is she associated with Black Knife Assassins?
@@angeltzepesh1 What's a plot hole? I get so tired of seeing people just claim plot holes just because they don't fully grasp the story or have to interpret things on their own
I like to think Melina was always the gloam eyed queen and due to how mesmer was born as a way to remind Merika of her wrong doings and shattered path so to was Melina born but where one was sent away due to fear the other was sealed due to her crafty ambitions If i remember right the gloam eyed queen made the white blob fish dudes. I like to think that while Horah loux was destroying people Melina was at his side doing the same to "demigods" but started experimenting and eventually made the blob fishs which was what led to her sealing because her job was to just end them not create a bigger newer threat to her rule. Its also supported by the fact those walking belltowers house demigods we never heard of meaning its possible. Along with the fsct Merika says "be useful or be sacrificed" and so the seal forced her to become a sacrifice because Merika feared her. Even though she is freed by the end of the quest we simply become something the gloam eyed queen always wanted, a demigod to skin. Its not that we live that makes her angry but that we became something like Merika and no matter what anything slightly close to Merika boils her up (not her siblings who are essentially hollows of what they once were, even Miquella, but someone that cpuld change the tides of history and who must be stopped) So conclusion: Melina can never truly escape her nature or her seal and thus can never be happy or move on without losing it all to the silly erdtree due to the fact both sides want revenge for what theyve become but like Mesmer were halted and hesitant to follow through on mother but not hesitant towards us
Everyone over here saying her eye changes with the frenzied flame ending, it really doesn’t she just reveals the grace implanted in her eye to seal her fire. Gloam is twilight after the sunsets, it would be a blackened eye if it was “gloam” its clearly an orange eye. That is not twilight after dusk. Gloam eyed queen was a comlletely separate empyrean who is dead. Dead dead just like godwyn
Thank you all for the kind and insightful comments!! Immediately after the release of this video and after reading through comments, a new theory has begun brewing in my head that may change some aspects of this theory but only strengthens my belief in it. May make another video in the near future, this time tying into Messmer.......
I'll try to clarify the issue...
Melina is Marika's daughter and, in all likelihood, the Gloam-eyed Queen. Not an "emanation of Marika" because... what would be the point? Why the symbol on the eye otherwise..? The DLC... in a very lazy and ignoble way, resolves the issue. Beyond the "Messmer's sister" mentioned in the descriptions who has visions of fire, the cutscene of the Impaler's fight that precedes the second phase is the key: that scene wants to communicate to us that its possible to seal the cursed essence of a demigod in his eye, if necessary . That's what happened to Melina. We know that Maliketh defeated the queen and took the rune of death... it is easy to understand that it was he who sealed her essence, her dark eye. Marika wanted to eradicate death from her order, and Melina was literally the personification of death. We don't know whether she waged war against her mother to defend herself or out of ambition, but it's certain that Melina, in the game, tells us that this world needs indiscriminate death (probably she is convinced that death is indispensable for the natural cycle of things, Marika on the other hand has her traumas, sooo..). Now.. why is she memoryless and incorporeal in the game? The rune and her essence have been sealed, and probably since she is "Death" in a world where no one can die... she is suspended in a situation of "half existence" and this situation has devastated her so much that she has lost memory. Why does Melina only open her eye at the end of the Frenzy ending? Because she survives Maliketh's death. His rune has been unleashed, Marika's shadow has been slain, the seal is broken. In all other routes Melina sacrifices herself for us before Maliketh's fall. NOW.. here I enter the field of crazy speculation.. Gaius' descriptions suggest that Messmer was, for Radhan, a kind of older brother.. what? If he is Radagon's son, and he is, how can he act as an older brother to someone who technically... should have been born first? Radagon and Marika had children after Rennala's three children were born, right? No. In my opinion Messmer is an illegitimate son, Marika was messing around with her male half already when Godfrey was Elden Lord. And I'm pretty sure that Melina was practically born at the same time as Messmer (another damn twin birth, yes, it would be Marika's third). Two twins, one with the blasphemous serpent and the other with the black flame of death, never officially recognized (even more so, if Messmer's throne is missing in Morgott's monologue... how is it? Radahn knows him, and the rest of the kingdom don't..?). And here lies the fascinating difference between the two twins. Messmer, head down, repressed and obedient son, takes on a ruthless crusade, painting himself the image of a horrible leader. Melina, however, rebels against Marika's wishes, and is put down by her dog. She loses her memory, is entrusted with a mission by her mother... and in the end she decides to sacrifice herself by choice, to save the world she loves. Melina is an incredible character, on paper... From didn't want to tell us.
Nice summary, didn’t expect you to be here doe
i like this
Etf tou daid mark is eagle...
Its claw mark from maliketh conformed and stolen shard of rune is melinas eye. The one beast gives to you to track roots
I still like Tarnished Archeologist's argument that the Erdtree has been burned once already by the beginning of the game, with Leyndell already being full of ash and all doors/windows sealed to keep ash out. And the Erdtree no longer being a physical tree but only a spiritual construct of a tree, save for a few parts that we can see aren't golden. So I'm thinking that Melina's body was used to burn the physical Erdtree but the spirit of both Melina and the Erdtree remained for some reason (probably Marika's schemes), until you burn her spirit again to burn the spiritual Erdtree's thorns. There's still a lot of room for this to fit with other theories, but it's not something that I'm seeing many if any take into account.
I love the concept of having a drawing timelapse in the background while talking about lore! This was a really cool video!
Thank you so much! I'm glad people seem to like the video!
@@ripptides yeah it’s cool to see someone take multiple interests and passions (art, video games, Elden ring, etc) and find a way to blend them all together. It’s such a unique and hyper specific form of expression that I, and seemingly many others, vibe with!
The Gloam-eyed Queen is a moniker of destined death for Queen Marika the Eternal to “conquer” adding legitimacy to her reign. I think Melina much like her older brother did what was asked of her. Marika had a lot of people she wanted dead before sealing the rune of death in Maliketh’s sword. Tinfoil hat, Melina’s body was used to burn the Ancient Erdtree & instigated the war with the giants.
I agree that she burned her true body to burn the original physical form of the erdtree. For some reason the burning was incomplete though because both of them remain in spiritual form still. But then at the end of the game she burns her spiritual form too and this burns the phantom erdtree as well
The small issue with that is that Maliketh still wielded Destined Death, it wasn't sealed until Ranni stole a piece of it ( otherwise she couldn't have stolen it )
@@draghettis6524 It was sealed in Maliketh's sword after the Gloam-Eyed Queen was "defeated". The Black Blade was Marika's WMD trump card. That they weren't expecting anyone would attempt to steal. Ranni's position and possibly other conspirators more than likely provided the intel that it could be stolen. After the Night of Black Knives Maliketh seals the rune within himself.
@@Ironbreeze53 It wasn't really sealed, when it became Maliketh's sword. Just transformed, or housed.
Sealed would imply it can't do anything, but it very much does a lot of things, as evidenced by the everything his sword and the black knives do.
And yeah, Maliketh is Marika's greatest servant. A second leal hound to the Golden Order, but one that follows Marika before anyone else. A monopoly on True Death, for her and her alone. Someone even the demigods were terrified of.
Melina is many things, but the only thing she is not is: in the DLC
almost no one from the base game is part of the dlc because they didn’t want it to conflict with the game files i.e somebody being dead in the base game but appearing in the dlc
Check out the frenzied flame ending. Even though Melina leaves and doesn't aid you anymore when you accept the three fingers, she reappears at the end saying "Lord of Frenzied Flame...I will seek you, as far as you may travel. To deliver what is yours. Destined Death."
Yeah I believe that what he's reading off about in the last 3 mins... Who she realizes she is... I love this character so much.
5:30 The Gloam-eyed queen didn't need to steal destined death in order to use it, as she possessed it before Maliketh (item desc. of Godslayer's Greatsword), and it was taken by Maliketh when he defeated her. And because She possessed the rune before Marika sealed it away in Gurranq/Maliketh, It's strange to assume that she was born when the rune was removed, 6:10. Unless She was created via the Rune of Death's removal (no lore precedent for tampering with the Elden ring creating beings), was given the rune of death by Marika for, some reason (?), and then fell into conflict with Marika, and was defeated by Maliketh. Additionally, why would Melina be referred to as a daughter of Marika, much less a sister of Messmer if she was created via the removal of the rune of death from the Elden ring? The only instance of accidentally created beings being referred to as children of said accidental creator is Millicent and her sisters, who are literally pieces of Malenia's [mind/body/soul(?)], and even then, its indirect, as it is stated by Gowry. It's more likely that Melina is simply Messmer's sister, and was given the rune of death by Marika because, at the time, Marika had no reason to distrust her, Then, perhaps because of a curse (child of Marika) or some grievance with the golden order, she created the Godskins and marched against the Erdtree and was Defeated by Gurranq, and her physical body burned, leaving her a spirit, like we find her in the game.
Sorry for the entire book, but there's a lot to digest here. And sorry if it sounds a bit negative.
I'm with you on that, it wouldn't be the only time a rebellion happened from the margins of society ( because yes, Death is pretty much relegated to the margins by the Golden Order, it's its very foundation ), that's literally what Marika herself did, and what we Tarnished can do in some endings.
My thoughts are that Ranni stole the rune from Melina, and when that happened, Marika sealed the rune and, with it, Melina's corporeal form.
I'm unsure if Melina is the Gloam-Eyed Queen or an Empyrean representing her.
@@nohface4544 She explicitly stole it from Maliketh, as per his dialogue, who himself got it by defeating the GEQ ( quite likely to be Melina )
@@draghettis6524 ah thank you
@@draghettis6524 "Death is pretty much relegated to the Golden order"
That is accurate if you mean destined death, however, ghostflame existed before the elden ring, and thus, the Golden order. I agree w/ the rest of the comment.
Same thing that happened to Mesmer, happened to Melina. Flame Snake Gloam Eyed Queen cursed their blood. One got his eye torn out and replaced by Grace, one has their eye sealed shut. Melina is locked up for a while. Then either because she can be used as kindling for magic trees, or because she needed to be free. Her body was burned like the Hornsent. Who can only exist in the shadow realm. But she can come and go in areas of Grace. Or at least be seen and interacted with.
exactly what i've been saying
That actually kind of makes sense. The Erdtree was placed upon the roots of the Greattree, presumably what is now the Scadutree. The Scadutree and the Shadow Lands that it overshadows are closely related to the crucible that beings grow horns from.
We know that people are (or were) absorbed into and born from the Erdtree, like how Millicent is born from a Scarlet Aeonia bud in Caelid. The Erdtree is still connected to that crucible through it's roots, so that might be root the cause of the Omen Twins's crucible aspects. If, then, the Gloam Eyed Queen's runes/lifeforce was used to create two children, then it would make sense if they inhabit features similar to the Queen's, in much the same way as the Omen Twins.
The eyes are the window to the soul, or spirit using Elden Rings terminology.
1:17 I think radagon was ALWAYS the second half of Marika; remember that that's a heavily guarded secret In-universe, even if we all know it. Who's to say it wasn't always true?
If Melina is a demigod (implied by the DLC) then the gloom eyed queen may be her alter ego much like ST. Trina is Miquellas.
implied? i mean it was basically confirmed as you visit the shaman village
@@m.l.2871 can u explain a bit more?
@@vijay5 well if you go to the shaman village you find the incantation ''minor erdtree''. if you ever summoned melina for the morgott fight you can see that she uses exactly that incantation. it means they are directly connected to each other.
there was a similiar thing about gwyn and gwynevere in dark souls before, which suggested that gwyn is her father.
i mean you could maybe think that melina is just a shaman too but since messmers kindling talks about a sister and that their purpose is only one thing its basically confirmed melina is the sister of messmer and daughter of marika
@@m.l.2871 and thats not all but minor erdtree is a Secret incantation of Queen Marika.
the kindness of gold, without Order.
For Melina to have such a secret must mean their relationship and connections are Important
Malekith had the destined death rune sealed away in his blade tho? The red sigil you see after fighting Malekith is the rune of death itself
True...
...but...
...you only see that cutscene AFTER Melina is SUPPOSED to sacrifice herself.
And in the frenzied flame ending... she BECOMES the next Gloam Eyed Queen.
Melina doesn't have a body.
@@chaz706nah, she doesn't become the next Gloam Eyed Queen, she has always BEEN the Gloam Eyed Queen, the Gloam Eyed Queen was defeated in the past, never killed (to my knowledge)
Nothing really ever said he always had distant death
@@kaijukingofthemonsters1075 TRUE
Melina does seem to be the gloam eyed queen and all the events of the gloamed eyed queen likely happen during the time of Marika started to war with the other people of the lands between and after messmer's crusade but before Godfrey became elden lord or just around that time.
Melina is not a child of Radagon and Marika, she's the child of Marika and the man in the statues of enir-illim. Everything about Messmer fire and melina's burned body point to them being heavily connected to the fell god of fire, who is the basis for the hornsent religion. The ember of messmer physical description is "Serpentine, cord-like ember". The cord part is very important as the hornsent were inspired by the spiral and one particular ornament we see everywhere is that of a twisted curtain and twisted hair into braids like a cord. Another is that is capable of burning the sealing tree, the only other flame capable is that of the flame of ruin which lies in the lands between and is also powered by the fell god. The Godslayer's Greatsword is a spiral great sword. There are more items connecting Melina and messmer to the hornsent than to Radagon and his Golden Order. Every Magic Radagon uses has his # themed rune and/or circle in its manifestation when used.
I reckon that Messmer was born out of wedlock between Radagon and Marika, and Melina never met Radagon. It is a possibility Marika was pregnant with Melina when she went to the Divine Gate. Then after the foundation of the Golden order and Marika's union with Godfrey, she was given the purpose of bearing the Rune of Destined Death. After which she was killed, and her remains were burned by Maliketh (in my mind this is when he would have sealed away the Rune of Destined Death within his sword) in her adolescence when it became clear that she was growing too powerful and assembling a loyal base of Godskin Apostles, posing a potential threat to Marika's own regime. To me this is why she appears as the ghost of a burned girl with her (gloam) eye sealed shut. As to the Miquella and St.Trina thing we also know that there is a strong possibility that Radagon and Marika started out as separate individuals, based on dialogue with Melina at a site of grace in the Capital City. it might be possible that St. Trina and Miquella could have also been separate at one time as well. Nowhere does it state that both parties have to be Numen or Numen Shamans for their flesh to meld harmoniously with others. So St.Trina could have possibly been a regular human at one point. Maybe even a childhood sweetheart of Miquella's. That's something I have been pondering since I found the Shaman Village. I could also be very very wrong about all of it.
Best I’ve heard this explained and solved some of my previous issues with the theory. Would love to hear follow ups as the theory crafting evolves further to address some of the things mentioned in comments or a video dedicated to going over comments
Melina might be actually part of Mesmer. Like Radagon and Trina. Mesmer could have tried to take away his serpent but could only remove part of him. That would explain why the god skins have snake like stuff going on. The noble has a serpent tale and the apostle can stretch his body just like the man serpent in vulcano manor. Also serpents change their skins. So the reason why those guy take do that crazy stuff might be a way of worship the abissal serpent. Because chave skin can be associated with death of the old and born of the new. Melina is very fascinating with the circle of life and death since she hate the frenzy flame. Anyway that is may theory about Melina. Nice video.
No
Melina tells us who she is herself, “The one who walks alongside flame, Shall one day meet Destined Death.” And she’ll go on to “deliver unto us what is ours, Destined Death,” if we become the LoFF or LoC.
Given what we know about Messmer, it’s safe to say they were both born to burn down their respective trees when the time came. A child of light and one of darkness; Erdtree and Scadutree.
Melina also talks about life, births, and the beauty in the cycle. With life comes destined death, and vice versa; Messmer’s abyss represents the absence thereof which is why I believe Marika trapped him away, and used his curse to stop anyone from making the same mistake she made in becoming a god in the process when she blocked off Enir Ilim, two birds with one stone so to speak.
Edit: As for how she ends up burned and bodiless, I think that’s something we can only speculate and quibble over. Either way, I think it’s safe to say it has to do with Miquella’s decision to burn the Erdtree and Scadutree seeing as both have to be destroyed for his Age of Light/Compassion to be a thing, and she’s in possession of Torrent. People might want to say Ranni might have something to do with it, and she might, but I think her only connection to Melina is through Miquella anyways, as I believe Miquella and Ranni were both behind the Night of Black Knives (that’s why Godwyn and Malekith were so easily defeated; by Miquella’s love), only Ranni betrayed Miquella in order to achieve her goal of ruling in her Age of Stars, ruining Miquella’s plan to make Godwyn the vessel for Radahn’s soul.
5:32 Marika tore out the rune of death from the Elden ring, so that no one she loved would die, effectively making the Demi gods “immortal”. She placed the rune of death under the protection of the gloam eyed queen (seemingly abandoning her in favor of her golden child). Not wanting to end up like her elder brother, that and she was not as loyal as he was, she decided to use the rune of death and imbue it with the “vision of flame” the her and her brother shared. From here it is speculation, as I assume she created destined death via the joining of her flames and the rune of death. That’s why Maliketh defeating the gloam eyed queen removed the godskins ability to fell a “god”
Actually.. this feels kinda solid. Taken in context with her threat and frenzy flame ending. I will follow you wherever you might go and bring you what you deserve... destined death
I think your argument is indeed compelling and I agree that Melina is quite likely the Gloam-Eyed Queen.
I especially like the theory that the flame that burned Melina was no other than the black flame of destined death itself.
You had the theory that when Maliketh sealed Destined Death away, Melina was robbed of her power, the very element she was the unintended child of, remaining as the spectre we know her as.
I have a theory that I actually like more and also another completely crazy one:
My theory: As the Kindling Maiden Melina fulfilled her visions of fire and burned herself and the Erdtree to the ground with her own flame. There are multiple theories that the current Erdtree is a provisory projection as its bounty has dried up, this could be the reason. This could also be why Melina knows so well how to burn the Erdtree.
Crazy theory: Melina was burned in Messmers flame to destroy the Fire Giants.
As one can see in the Mountaintops, there are many dead Giants. The first thing that comes to peoples mind when they see that is Deathroot, as the Giants are impaled similarly.
But when you look at the impaling Spears, they look nothing like the tendrils of Deathroot. It also makes no sense, as Deathroot is a product of Godwyns halfdeath, which happened much later.
But what these spears look VERY similar to is Messmers spears, which we know he can conjure multiple out of his flame. So Marika forces her unintended rival to power up her son a bit.
Problem with this is we don't know how the Land of Shadow was separated from the Lands Between, trapping Messmer there. Theory is that removing the Rune of Destined Death separated these two parts of the world. But then if Melina was born of the Rune of Death itself, this would disprove this theory.
There is one thing I don't quite agree with in what you said:
I don't think Marika "shed" the Rune of the Unborn. I've heard a theory that Marika shed unwanted parts of herself through Radagon and her children, cursing Morgott, Mogh, Melania and Miquella. This could also explain why Marika lost faith in the Golden Order, as all of that went into Godwyn, either unintentionally or intentionally with unwanted side effects.
But the Great Rune of the Unborn is still very mystifying, as it was gifted to Rennala BEFORE the shattering of the Elden Ring. What I hear a lot is that Marika used this Rune to create Radagon, but I think Radagon is part of Marika as I hinted at earlier. This rune was used to give Radagon, part of Marika an independent body apart from Marika. When he returned to her it was no longer needed and he gave it to Rennala as a consolation gift. This still does not explain where the Rune of the Unborn came from, but Marika has plucked the manifestation of death from the Elden Ring, why not do the same with the manifestation of birth?
That artwork goes crazy! Nice work!
Who was Messmer’s little sister who also saw fire, if not her?
4:09 I specifically mentioned Melina being the younger sister when speaking on Messmer.
Damn dude, that connects a lot of dots! Figuring out how all the DLC revelations apply to the maingame has been a real treat. A lot of people seemed to be upset there was no direct lore about GEQ but there's enough evidence here to suggest that isn't the case. Great work!
I always thought the age of dragons was way before the erdtree. And when the dragons besieged Leyndell it was kind of the last hurrah. The order of dragons was broken. Their God fled, their Lord lost to Time, and so the last remnants the last of the dragon lords tried to keep the dawning of a new age back. A lot of the subjects and Magic’s and runes and orders in this games lore are paradoxes. They exist as both a physical object, as state of mind and being, an order or law of the universe and nature, and a magical or supernatural force. Like the Elden ring and golden order. The Elden beast and elden ring, the runes of the elden ring and the Elden ring still inside marika. Or the fact that the elden beast is the personification of said ring which is both inside a Gods Husk and having been shattered scattered as greater runes we collect. Each one representing both the physical and cosmological and metaphysical laws and forces of nature of this world. So is the fact that the age of dragons and Faram Azula is of an older age mean they and the dragons no longer exist as a part of this age and time line? Or is the fact that the elden ring was shattered suspend time in general here in game. Cause that’s a thing no one mentions much. We die and are reborn so many times, each rebirth takes a certain time. So maybe a millennium passed since we died. Maybe that’s why there even is a storm outside of time, because time exists differently here in this world. How long ago was the shattering? How long ago did Marika Ascend? How long about was the age of dragons? How long ago was it since the Night of knives? And how long did Maliketh have the rune of death before the night of knives happened! Cause that was when he sealed it away. Before that he had it but it was obviously vulnerable if ranni stole a fragment. The entire point of sealing it away is to protect it and the world from its influence and power. So many question unanswered and so little perspective to go on.
Ah, someone else who goes along with this theory. I didn't think of Placidusax as being her lord and the dragons her allies but it fits.
As for her leaving the Blade of Calling, I think it was a message. The Blade is associated with the Numen through it's similarity with the Death corrupted Black Knives of the Numen/Nox Back Knife Assassins and by abandoning it Melina declares she is nomlonger aligned with the Numen but with the Outer God of Death and forges her own Crucible themd blade to signify this.
Tbh, I kind of would like to have seen Gloam-Eyed Queen Melina in her prime. I imagine she makes an excellent villian. Melina's betrayal is also what likely hardened Marika to her children. If one could do it, any could do it and Ranni did do it.
Love it!
Melina is totally the Gloam eyed queen for all the reasons stated. Additionally an item description mentions how the GEQ made black flame by imbuing her flame with destined death (so Melina having a regular flame originally as seen with the smoldering butterflies makes sense) and she definitely came to be an empyrean after Marika’s ascension (since Melina was selected by her two fingers and all, which weren’t doing that before Marika’s new order).
Also the term ‘queen’ is pretty interchangeable with Marika’s godhood, so Melina styling herself as such makes sense if she was trying to usurp her mother.
Whereas Messmer was born inflicted by an outer god, I think Melina sought it out after learning of her empyrean status. She prob took on the ghost flame god like Mohg did the formless mother.
i love your take on melina's connection to plasidusax's missing god - that's so good
i do like this theory. what makes it interesting to me is the placi and GEQ pairing. item descs say that "it is said" the GEC was an empyrean chosen by the fingers, and also "it is said" placi was elden lord in the time before the erdtree, so pairing both of these people up together makes for some intriguing conversation.
I will say, if they were both paired together, placi is said to have been lord in the age before the erdtree, so i would place some of these events before the giants were slain and the flame was confined atop the mount, as the age of the erdtree started after the flame was confined.
one of my theories is Melina held the the fell god of fire, because she has to get close to the confined flame stop the mount in order to channel it. and if she was the GEQ this might make sense, does fire + rune of death = black flame? when maliketh has the rune of death, he doesn't wield black flame, but he still wields the black blade. much to think about with all of this.
Good video and some compelling ideas here!
My personal theory is that Melina is *Ranni's* other self, or a manifestation that was created when Ranni freed her soul from her body. Ranni could have had a fire affinity and actually be the younger sister referred to in Messmer's Kindling, then, when Ranni split herself off, she could have left the aspect of herself in tune with fire in Melina. Spirits and souls are said to be born from and return to the Erdtree, so Melina could have been manifested in the Erdtree without necessarily being Marika's child. This would also explain why Melina only ever talks about being born of a mother, and still squares the whole "within the Erdtree" thing, her mother isn't in the Erdtree, Melina was just born inside of the Erdtree. I have lots of other evidence and reasonings, but I'll keep it brief.
My theory also heavily relies on speculation and some leaps haha. The biggest issue I see with mine is probably the butterflies. While we never get an explicit recognition that the butterflies are directly from/representative of the children of R+M, it seems pretty settled at this point. It'd be strange if one of the butterflies represented a child of R+R instead.
A speculation that actually make sense, she talks about destined death, burning the erdtree with the flame of ruin, and mesmer remembrance talks about a sister of him who bore a similar vision of fire... Burning the erdtree... in her appearance in the freizied flame ending her eye is taking a gloam color , same color as the beast's eye that maliketh gives us to track destined death or death root. This eye is marked with 3 claws marks, milena has like 3 claw marks tattooed just beside her closed eye.
Sure maliketh have no little claws but now we got to the vulgar militians who actually fits the bill, they are small enough the leave such marks, they wield destined death like the black blade kindreds, meaning they roll for maliketh. You can find them on forbidden places like tombs, in the FORBIDDEN LAND (wich I think was milena's HQ & it's also guarded by a black blade kindred) , the DLC and it's said in their item description. So after defeating her they stole the rune of death, her eye, and her sword. After that she continued to exist as the milena we know but with no remembrance of her past, much like maliketh & gurranq are to separate personalities. Gurranq being the cool cleric beast and maliketh being the savage beast.
Thanks for the video 💪.
I believe the GEQ is destined death, and melina inherented the Gloam eyes from marika, marika was the GEQ but when she sealed away destined death she also sealed away that aspect of herself. Melina and Messmer both inhereted sealed aspects of the GEQ. Messmer the snake aspect, and Melina the Gloam Eyes.
Except that isn’t possible, gloam eye queen raised the godskin slayers and was defeated. She was death itself before probably before marika became a god.
So marika had the aspect of death killed and her rune sealed.
We specifically know she was a empyrean chosen by her own two fingers
If she was defeated and destined death stolen she wouldn’t still be alive. Malekith would use destined death on her and kill her.
My personal theory related Melina/GEQ to Dragons, too, but in a different way, maybe complementary to yours.
To me, the curse mark/tattoo in both Melina and GEQ eyes isnt from a bird claw, but from a Dragon claw.
I tend to think of Lansseax, sister of Placidussax. Lannseax was an ancient female dragon who had a human form, as a sorceress.
Remember Vyke, who was close to become Elden Lord, but instead went mad to the frenzy flame?
Lansseax, in her human form as a sorceress, is stated to have been in love with Vyke, became his maiden, and lost him due to the frenzy flame.
Remember how strongly Melina/Geq are opposed to the frenzy flame... first she threats us, then she abandons us, then she vows to pursue and kill us. Just because we followed the frenzy flame.
¿Maybe because she lost her previous lord for it?
Melina says too that she's burnt and bodyless, and we find a burnt maiden close to where we fight Vyke.
So yeah... in my convoluted headcannon, GEQ and ence Melina are future, alternate forms and beings of Lansseax.
I mean I am pretty much 80% sure at this point that Melina is Gloom-eyed queen. If we look at her room in the capital it is more a prison cell than a room. And there is also one of Raykard's inquisitor's body sitting outside of room who looks like he has been scortched. Now, it is said that she was defeated by Maliketh which kinda makes sense since she is more spirit now than actual being.
What I disagree about is the connection with dragons. It is not out of this world to think that Elden Ring, being instrument of outher god, was forced on this world during the times before Marika. Especially if we look the shape of it inside Maliketh boss room. It is completely different. Also it is said that Placudisax's god left the known world.
Great Video. I wanted to bring up some idea that I don't think support the idea but may there is away to explain them or I am missunderstanding parts of the video. When I started adding sources, this sort of blew out of control so sorry for the long read.
The Gloam Eyed Queens defeat is what leads to Destine Death being sealed and the start of the Golden Order. How can Melina be the GEQ if she was created by this process.
She was also born at the foot of the Erdtree (as said), so did the Golden Order start after the Erdtree?
Godslayer's Greatsword
Sacred sword of the Gloam-Eyed Queen who controlled the Godskin Apostles before her defeat at the hands of Maliketh.
Godskin Apostle Hood
Hood made by sewing together patches of smooth skin. Worn by the Godskin Apostles.
The apostles, once said to serve Destined Death, are wielders of the god-slaying black flame. But after their defeat by Maliketh, the Black Blade, the source of their power was sealed away.
Finger Reader Enia
"The Rune of Death goes by two names; the other is Destined Death.
The forbidden shadow, plucked from the Golden Order upon its creation..."
Mending Rune of the Death-Prince (I am aware of the JP translation stuff)
...The Golden Order was created by confining Destined Death. Thus, this new Order will be one of Death restored.
Messmer was born during the reign of Godfrey.
The latest he was born was during Radagons marriage to Rennala, since he was as an elder brother To Radhan. The earliest he was born was after the Golden Lineage, Messmer is a Demigod, as Godricks great rune says.
Remembrance of the Wild Boar Rider
Remembrance of Commander Gaius, hewn into the Scadutree.
The power of its namesake can be unlocked by the Finger Reader. Alternatively, it can be used to gain a great bounty of runes.
Both were as elder brothers to the lion, and both were cursed from birth. In spite of, or perhaps because of this very reason, Gaius was both Messmer's friend and the leader of his men.
Godrick's Great Rune
A Great Rune of the shardbearer Godrick. Its blessing raises all attributes.
This Great Rune is known as the anchor ring, found in the center of the Elen Ring.
The first demigods were The Elden Lord Godfrey and his offspring, the golden lineage.
I do not think Melina is an Empyrean. Ranni mentions the Empyreans she knows of. Only herself, Miquella and Melina. So she does not know about the Gloam Eyed Queen. As said in the video it seems Melina was held in Lyndell for a time, would Ranni not know her? Ranni also would know who Messmer is since he hanging out with her brother.
So Messmer is not an Empyrean. Messmer and Melina are brother and sisters and I think born of Radagon and Marika. Red hair, fire, cursed beings, Messmers boss music is very similar to Radagons.
The reason Malina and Miquella are empyrean is because they were born of a single God, Messmer (and likely Melina) were not.
We know Messmer was born before Radagon and Marika married, they could still have been the same person at the time but Radagon was not yet a God.
Remembrance of the Rot Goddess
Remembrance of Malenia, Goddess of Rot, hewn into the Erdtree.
The power of its namesake can be unlocked by the Finger Reader. Alternatively, it can be used to gain a great bounty of runes.
Miquella and Malenia are both the children of a single god. As such they are both Empyreans, but suffered afflictions from birth. One was cursed with eternal childhood, and the other harbored rot within.
In Marika's own words.
O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order.
Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god.
Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self.
On the Great Rune of the Unborn Demigod(s).
Great Runes only appeared after the Elden Ring was smashed. The demigods received new found power that gave them their mad taint, only after the Elden Ring was smashed.
Great runes are also inherited and can be proof of lineage, so it is not like Demigods just grabbed them. I believe the Great Runes manifested in the bodies of their Demi Gods and then morphed to take on the function that best serves their host.
Ranni discarded hers (primitively) by killing her body. Miquella discards his while he is discarding his flesh. The Elden Ring is housed in the vessels body, so the Great Runes should work the same way.
The Demigods have to be killed for their Great Runes to be taken and the Fingers must give benediction to sanction the new host.
It is for these reasons that I believe the Great Rune of the unborn manifested inside an unborn demigod that dwells in the Amber egg, given by Radagon. It is an egg after all, likely from the amber of the Erdtree and amber contains the vitality of life.
The unborn demi god does not have a name. This is what makes the naming of this Great Rune sound special, like it is a different type of Rune, a title rather than just saying whos rune it is.
The need of the unborn Demi God, is to be born, so that is the purpose the Great Rune morphs to have. I don't think it had this power while in the Elden Ring but maybe it did, and Marika could have used it at the time.
We never kill this unborn demigod, so the Rune does not require benediction. But we do control the Rune since it is the egg.
Finger Reader Enia
Ahh, Great Runes are the stuff of demigods;
the children of the goddess, Queen Marika. She who is vessel of the Elden Ring.
Tainted by the strength of their runes, her children warred, but none could become Elden Lord.
Morgott's Great Rune
A Great Rune of the shardbearer Morgott. Its blessing greatly raises maximum HP.
This Great Rune is the anchor ring that houses the base, and proves two things:
That the Omen King was born of the golden lineage, and that he was indeed the Lord of Leyndell.
Radahn's Great Rune
A Great Rune of the shardbearer Radahn. Its blessing raises maximum HP, FP and Stamina.
Radahn was amongst the children of Rennala and Radagon, who became demigod stepchildren after Radagon's union with Queen Marika.
The Great Rune burns, to resist the encroachment of the scarlet rot.
(Radhan only had rot later on, not when he received the rune)
Finger Reader Enia
Ahh, Great Runes are the stuff of demigods;...
"The Greater Will has long renounced the demigods."
"Tarnished, show no mercy. Have their heads. Take all they have left."
"The Fingers have willed it so."
Sellen
"Golden amber contains the remnants of ancient life, and houses its vitality"
Placi can not be Elden Lord to Melina. Although I do think he may be the consort of the Golam Eyed Queen.
He was Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree and Melina was born at it's foot. Also he is an Elden Lord which would require his God to be the vessel for the Elden Ring. Miquella (and others) become Gods but do not have the Elden Ring and it is never said that their Lords are Elden Lords.
Remembrance of the Dragonlord
Remembrance of Dragonlord Placidusax, hewn into the Erdtree.
The power of its namesake can be unlocked by the Finger Reader. Alternatively, it can be used to gain a great bounty of runes.
The Dragonlord whose seat lies at the heart of the storm beyond time is said to have been Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree. Once his god was fled, the lord continued to await its return.
To answer your first question, yes the Golden Order was after the Erdtree. But I ain’t reading all that lmao
great theory :)
and more great artwork
Head cannon yt lore is getting out of hand
I don’t think Rad ever separated from Marika. I think they just were that dedicated to their plot that they would let each other take control for long periods of time
It’s wild how the most accurate way to find out what definitely isn’t true is just to read people’s theory video titles
I think that the reason they don't give more info on Melina is that she fulfilled her purpose. She acted the role as a maiden for us, to allow us to become elden lord. It's precisely because she's a spirit and has no body that we're able to succeed where the other tarnish all failed, because once they lost their finger maidens, they couldn't turn runes into strength and wouldn't have been able to burn Radagon's thorns away.
Volcano manor and Mogwyn Dynasty were both targeting finger maidens directly to stop the tarnished, so sending Melina out would have been a last chance attempt by queen Marika to ensure that our tarnished could succeed.
No one at the roundtable knows about Melina helping us, so that could be why Gideon says "No one can become the elden lord" since he and the other tarnished had lost their maidens.
My guess is that the conflict arose over the Destined Death, and Melina was torn between her duty to guard it and the love for her mother. This is why Marika sent Maliketh to deal with her. He "defeated" her, which implies she wasn't completely eliminated.
God, this would be such drama worthy of GRRM
I always found it funny that people can't reconcile GEQ and Marika being in conflict with the possibility that GEQ was Marika's daughter.
Dude yes! Ive been saying this for a while and people literally get mad at me. Cool ideas only count from lore tubers
goated theory, only thing thats weak imo is the placi stuff (rlly sick if it was real, but pure speculation).
Okay, this is possible. It makes more since when you accept that Marika merged with the Elden Beast/Elden Ring in a jar and that each child of Marika is part of the Elden Ring just as much as they are a part of Marika. Her children don't need the Great Runes to have their power, but they do need them to become more powerful. Then once Melina was defeated by Maliketh the Rune of Death was removed so that another child of Destined Death could not be reborn again. It makes since in that way. It also makes since then that Melina would have been the one who headed the Black Knives first and set the Nox to make the Finger Slayer blade to kill Metyr. If you are familiar with that theory.
Been thinking about that
I dig it! Great theory
Great theory, amazing art!
Thank you so much!
Your Melina! He's Melina! She's Melina?? Any other Melinas I should be worried about??? (Just kidding I love these theories)
Yes, this theory!
A very interesting theory.
You didn't mention that one of Messimer's items kinda identified Melina as his younger sister
4:09 I specifically mentioned this when speaking on Messmer.
This simply can't be true, the gloom eyed queen is long dead before melina was born.
I believe those golden threads we see in the trailer is Marika taking the gloom eyed queens great rune from her corpses.
Possibly after she was killed by Malikath.
Melina and messmer is most likely the first children of Marika and Radagon after godhood.
You can tell they are children of them because they both have red hair and afflictions.
My only question I why dosnt miquella have red hair...he's the ONLY child that's affected but dosnt have there fathers red hair, but blond like his mother's.
With no concrete timeline of events beyond what we are told in game, there is no saying when the events with the Gloam-Eyed Queen took place. The only information we have via the item descriptions associated with her as well as the Rune of Death have only two events we know have occurred:
1) The Rune of Death was removed from the Elden Ring at the establishment of the Golden Order (Rune of Death item description).
2) Destined Death was sealed upon the defeat of the Gloam-Eyed Queen (Godskin Apostle Robe item description).
The events that occur between these two events is left intentionally nebulous as Fromsoft tends to leave the exact timeline of events vague within their games.
On the topic of Melina and Messmer, as I addressed in the video, Messmer MUST be one of the first children born under Marika as he is an older brother to Radahn, who is born BEFORE Marika and Radagon come back together (unless Marika and Radagon had kids before Marika got with Godfrey, which feels unlikely). Hence why i believe the reason Messmer looks the way he does is because Marika had yet to split from Radagon, as we know she inevitably does as Radagon goes on to marry and bear kids with Renalla.
It is interesting that Miquella is the only demigod with Radagon's influence to not have Red Hair, though. That's very interesting, actually
@@ripptides your right, we don't have a accurate timeline, but we do have context clues.
Much like law of casualty. By removing the rune of death Marika was imprisoned in the erdtree.
However we know by melina, she was born from the erdtree.
Possibly like how millicent is born from a scarlet bloom.
It's possible the death of the gloom eyed queen could have a similar birth ritual in death.
Maybe millicent is a child born of Marika but she's also unaware of her existence.
But we DO know melina and messmer are related by his embers item description.
I do see the connection, but not as the same person.
Tho miquella needs further investigation
@@leonlacroix2638 Marika wasn't imprisoned within the Erdtree for the removal of Death, she was imprisoned for The Shattering. We're told via the Rune of Death item description that that her removing the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring is what marked the founding of the Golden Order itself.
And yes, Melina and Messmer are related, I still believe they are by all accounts siblings, just that Melina comes far later in the timeline rather than being born just after him, though it is entirely possible that Messmer and Melina were born one after the other.
My thought as to why Miquella may have golden locks like Marika and Godwyn is perhaps golden locks signify a sort of importance, like fortelling they are destined for some form of greatness. Only Godwyn was stripped of his opportunity during the Night of Black Knives. That's just speculation though, its hard to say as it stands
I believe this whole heartedly but I’m left wondering why Mesmer had no rune
@House_of_Green
Mesmer was left within the land of Shadow long before Marika ascended to godhood (or at least before the shattering). Once the Elden ring was shattered all of Marikas children born in the lands between claimed a piece of the Elden ring and that became their great runes. Since Messmer was in the land of Shadow he was never able to claim a piece of the Elden ring. He's still an empyrean just one without a rune. Hope this helps. I tried to remember all I could
@@Alkavorn sounds spot on! Thanks for the reply
Why can’t we just let Melina be Melina?
Because melina was presented as someone unique with connections to other significant characters but only did what any other finger maiden could do. We wanted her to do something interesting in the story but she just doesn't do anything like that.
*points at Frenzied Flame ending*
There’s no glom eyed queen it’s a red herring
It might be true, but then who is the Cartus sand worm?
You explained it pretty clearly, yet this ended up hard to follow LOL. Guess that's just Elden Ring lore for you. I'm going to have to watch a video on how Melina is the glowmight queen for a bit of context, but wow she had more lore than I thought. Not sure there's enough evidence to say she is destined death for sure, but I can definitely see the connection. This is awesome.
Thank you!
Yeah I realized after the fact that people may not be familiar with the "Melina is the Gloam-Eyed Queen" theory so that's my bad. I just hear it so often I assumed most folks have heard it at some point lol
They dropped the ball so hard with Melina and that ending cameo really made no sense to me. Why would she even be alive anymore since in DLC we learn that even spirits are burned by Flame of Frenzy? Why is she associated with Black Knife Assassins?
When was she burned by the Flame of Frenzy?
Spirits can die bc of the flame, but nowhere do we see Melina get burned by the flame of frenzy
@@richizzle39 she wasnt burned, but she should be after what we learn in the DLC. To me is a big plot hole
@@angeltzepesh1
What's a plot hole? I get so tired of seeing people just claim plot holes just because they don't fully grasp the story or have to interpret things on their own
@@Dastardly_Duo then explain it to me, why Melina is still alive in the Flame of Frenzy ending?
Will you do more videos on the World of Remnance?
Wut dat
Speak America
I may, yeah! I didn't know there was anyone still interested in that lol, thank you!
The most confusing family tree i ever see 😂 what comes first the egg or the chicken
What software do you use to draw with?
I use Clip Studio Paint! It’s by far my favorite art program I’ve used!
@@ripptides thank you, ive been looking to start drawing and your art program seemed nice
I like to think Melina was always the gloam eyed queen and due to how mesmer was born as a way to remind Merika of her wrong doings and shattered path so to was Melina born but where one was sent away due to fear the other was sealed due to her crafty ambitions
If i remember right the gloam eyed queen made the white blob fish dudes. I like to think that while Horah loux was destroying people Melina was at his side doing the same to "demigods" but started experimenting and eventually made the blob fishs which was what led to her sealing because her job was to just end them not create a bigger newer threat to her rule.
Its also supported by the fact those walking belltowers house demigods we never heard of meaning its possible. Along with the fsct Merika says "be useful or be sacrificed" and so the seal forced her to become a sacrifice because Merika feared her. Even though she is freed by the end of the quest we simply become something the gloam eyed queen always wanted, a demigod to skin. Its not that we live that makes her angry but that we became something like Merika and no matter what anything slightly close to Merika boils her up (not her siblings who are essentially hollows of what they once were, even Miquella, but someone that cpuld change the tides of history and who must be stopped)
So conclusion: Melina can never truly escape her nature or her seal and thus can never be happy or move on without losing it all to the silly erdtree due to the fact both sides want revenge for what theyve become but like Mesmer were halted and hesitant to follow through on mother but not hesitant towards us
Duh
Woah
these 2 years late videos are always so wonky. starting to hate what elden ring theory world is becoming on youtube
Is that because you aren’t creative?
Everyone over here saying her eye changes with the frenzied flame ending, it really doesn’t she just reveals the grace implanted in her eye to seal her fire.
Gloam is twilight after the sunsets, it would be a blackened eye if it was “gloam” its clearly an orange eye.
That is not twilight after dusk.
Gloam eyed queen was a comlletely separate empyrean who is dead.
Dead dead just like godwyn