Forehand myths debunked: Former Top 100 ATP Pro, Jeff Salzenstein, is exposing 3 common myths that could be crippling your forehands potential. Most players make at least 1 of these 3 mistakes... Do you? goo.gl/XCpw5X
Thanks for the great tip on how to hit the topspin forehand with the semi western grip. The comparison between using the eastern/continental and the semi western (racket facing back fence) in the video says it all. I use the traditional eastern/ continental grip.With the semi western for a forehand , changing grips to hit a single handed backhand drive as J'Hue Casey says would be quite tricky.
Don't let the tail wag the dog: there is only one way to create topspin and that is to strike the ball using a racquet path that sharply ascends. The steeper the ascent, the greater the amount of spin. Racquet head speed also increases the amount of spin you can get from a given angle of ascent. If you look at old videos of Rod Laver (using a continental grip), you will see his forehand has a lot of topspin. If you look at his forehand stroke path you will see the same "loopy" path that modern players use. Grips cannot create topspin; they can only facilitate the ease by which you can generate a substantially ascending racquet head path. The semi-western and western grips, by closing the racquet head make it easier to present a vertical racquet head to the ball at the moment of impact. A continental grip opens the racquet face and requires a LOT of wrist strength to close the racquet head to the vertical position at ball impact at the same time the racquet head path is sharply rising. It is no wonder that Laver's left wrist and forearm muscles were huge.
Actually the comment you have about the strings facing, depending on the grip, is a new one I haven't seen , and it is a good tip.There are so many components to individual comfort, you have to pick out a few things and apply them. thanks
The video is about adjusting take back depending on how extreme your grip is. And YES - you can finish high with semi or even full western depending on the ball you get. Jeff is a former top 100 player and a teaching pro. He knows his stuff.
I am using the Eastern grip on the forehand and have heard that the strings must face the ground on the takeback (to get better topspin). But in this video, the strings are not facing down on the takeback.
I find the semi w. a terrific grip must get used to keep my fingers on the handel up position just before contact in order to keep the rackethead perpendicular on contactpoint. thanks.
i agree, djokovic incorporates old fashion forehand. in which you whip the ball. you know the low to high and over the shoulder style that you learned when you start out. it gives the most power since your really pushing the ball but its not as consistent as modern style.
Jeff, I'm a former nationally ranked junior and Div I college player. However, I grew up playing tennis in the '70's so I have "traditional" forehand with eastern grip. I still enjoy the game and still in shape but I'm trying to transform my forehand to Western opened stance but I am having a really hard time making a transition. I tend to hit alot of balls in the net and over-rotate my body. Do you have any recommendations? Drills? (btw - your videos are really excellent)
Fed contorts his arm and his wrist to get a more semi-western like shots. If you notice, his arm is normally straight which is highly unusual for contemporary players. Fed is great and is my favorite player, but Djokovic has the best strokes in the game.
Federer has a eastern grip that's it for forehand and he routinely has the strings facing the 3 o'clock position del potro has a sw grip an keeps the strings facing forward so go figure. The main thing is the racquet stays up then drops below the ball prior to forward hip rotation
You have described this wrong, it is an extension of the wrist, a hyper extension. So all he is actually doing is lay the wrist back. Its wrist lay back. If you use langauge like turn it makes you think of rotation of the wrist. Which you can not actually do cause that joint does not facilitate that movement. I know you might think turn is a laymens term, but its really easy to misunderstand.
Also he is not doing it for spin he is laying his rest back so that its a smoother swing and a more consistant contact point. Your wrong with this video he does it. It produce a different positive result and you have explained it badly but have demonstrated it well. Very confusing!
im sure that when he plays for serious he doesnt do the strokes exactly like the ones in the video. also he was maybe a bit uncomfortable with the eastern, so his instinct was to compensate with a flat shot with high follow through. i thought his semi western forehand was pretty good, you cant say it was flawed.
I still have not learned what grip is which. What bevel does my index knuckle and palm pad rests on etc....Telling me how to swing back with a simi western and I don;t have a clue what simi western in is counter productive for me.
@joshwesthill Do you have some proof? From all the analysis videos I've seen, like the FYB ones, it looks like he's using an extreme eastern or eastern.
Now I'm trying to play western forehand, but I found that every shot i made are all to short and weak, I hope to make it deeper like Nole. What shall i do ?!
1 key is to catch the ball out as far in front of your body as you can comfortably manage. Having your arm extended and loose is key to getting depth on your shot, especially with the western grip where your wrist doesn't have nearly as much stability when your arm is tucked closer to your body. Other than that, squaring your shoulders and being sure not to swing more through the court than low to high helps with getting effective depth on the ball.
Thx for the tips you've told me last time, but now i've got some problems while returning serves. I have trouble to change the grips while returning serves, what can do ?!
Yeah, changing grips on the service return can be tricky. One thing that partly makes up for it is that the western grip makes it fairly easy to block shots back with pace. So you typically won't need to take as big of a swing to get en effective return back in play once you get used to blocking shots back effectively. Other than that, it's worth practicing switching your grips quickly to help you find your grips faster on the move. I'd also take note of which grips are easier for you to switch to. For instance, for me, it was easier for me to switch to my forehand than my backhand so early on I'd sometimes cheat a bit towards my back hand grip and then adjusted a bit when I got a better idea for where the serves were likely going. I hope that helps. Also, you might want to take notes from a player like Djokovic. He uses that western forehand and is a wizard with the return game.
Jeff 2 days I tried this and I must say, it is a strange,uncomfprtable feeling. Djoko is using this tchnique since being a kid, It's a natural forehand for him. I think that for people like me, club players, even if good level, this technique might cause damages to the security of the forehand shot. And frankly the spin result is not so great. I am sure that another "trick" used by Jack Shock or Dominik Thiem, or Kokinakis is much better. These players are prepaering their forehand with the top of the racket head showing the net. This means that if they turn the top of the head backwards doint the BIG KICK just before hitting the ball, this is creating really a strong spinn and the ball is heavy. Speak about this technique.
Why is it that even though Federer uses a more conservative semi-western that he generates a ton of topspin? I've heard he gets a ton of RPMs, second only to Nadal.
Totally wrong about Eastern grip. WIth eastern grip, you still can face your racket to the fence at the back and it should be that way. He seems to be confused with Eastern and continental forehand grips.
Djokovic forehand is among the best when it comes to topspin. 1-Nadal 2-Andreev 3-Verdasco 4-Djokovic 5-Roddick{post 2007} are the best spinners in the atp Dont compare Fed with them.He wasnt second in the world.The analytics compared the top guys from that time which was in 07.He and roddick averaged the same back then,hitting more than Safin and less than Nadal.You all understood it wrong.He was never second in the world.
A student cannot feel what you are verbally explaining; by watching any video a student cannot get the physical feeling of the motions. My TST_watch Tennis Swing Trainer UA-cam_enable users to get visual and physical feeling of the exact mechanics of the right move by seeing and feeling the positions of the racquet, user’s arms_wrists_parts of the body at each moment of the swing. The laws of biomechanics/kinematics define the optimal swing; a player only demonstrates his own approach to the better use thereof.
It's my understanding that Nadal for instance grips right in between western and semi-western. In other words to he has his hand right in between the 4th and 5th bevel. An easy way to explain that is to say something like "extreme semi-western". Not sure if it is the same thing for Djokovic or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.
Forehand myths debunked: Former Top 100 ATP Pro, Jeff Salzenstein, is exposing 3 common myths that could be crippling your forehands potential. Most players make at least 1 of these 3 mistakes... Do you? goo.gl/XCpw5X
👏🏼👏🏼
My left ear enjoyed this.
Thanks for the great tip on how to hit the topspin forehand with the semi western grip.
The comparison between using the eastern/continental and the semi western (racket facing back fence) in the video says it all. I use the traditional eastern/ continental grip.With the semi western for a forehand , changing grips to hit a single handed backhand drive as J'Hue Casey says would be quite tricky.
Don't let the tail wag the dog: there is only one way to create topspin and that is to strike the ball using a racquet path that sharply ascends. The steeper the ascent, the greater the amount of spin. Racquet head speed also increases the amount of spin you can get from a given angle of ascent.
If you look at old videos of Rod Laver (using a continental grip), you will see his forehand has a lot of topspin. If you look at his forehand stroke path you will see the same "loopy" path that modern players use. Grips cannot create topspin; they can only facilitate the ease by which you can generate a substantially ascending racquet head path. The semi-western and western grips, by closing the racquet head make it easier to present a vertical racquet head to the ball at the moment of impact. A continental grip opens the racquet face and requires a LOT of wrist strength to close the racquet head to the vertical position at ball impact at the same time the racquet head path is sharply rising. It is no wonder that Laver's left wrist and forearm muscles were huge.
True
Actually the comment you have about the strings facing, depending on the grip, is a new one I haven't seen , and it is a good tip.There are so many components to individual comfort, you have to pick out a few things and apply them. thanks
thanks for the vid,helped improve my forehand 100% ,went from loosing 6-2 yesterday, to winning 6-0 today!
The video is about adjusting take back depending on how extreme your grip is. And YES - you can finish high with semi or even full western depending on the ball you get. Jeff is a former top 100 player and a teaching pro. He knows his stuff.
I am using the Eastern grip on the forehand and have heard that the strings must face the ground on the takeback (to get better topspin).
But in this video, the strings are not facing down on the takeback.
I find the semi w. a terrific grip must get used to keep my fingers on the handel up position just before contact in order
to keep the rackethead perpendicular on contactpoint. thanks.
i agree, djokovic incorporates old fashion forehand. in which you whip the ball. you know the low to high and over the shoulder style that you learned when you start out. it gives the most power since your really pushing the ball but its not as consistent as modern style.
Jeff, I'm a former nationally ranked junior and Div I college player. However, I grew up playing tennis in the '70's so I have "traditional" forehand with eastern grip. I still enjoy the game and still in shape but I'm trying to transform my forehand to Western opened stance but I am having a really hard time making a transition. I tend to hit alot of balls in the net and over-rotate my body. Do you have any recommendations? Drills? (btw - your videos are really excellent)
I recomended... very good guy.
Fed contorts his arm and his wrist to get a more semi-western like shots. If you notice, his arm is normally straight which is highly unusual for contemporary players. Fed is great and is my favorite player, but Djokovic has the best strokes in the game.
Is it common for the atp players separate the fingers , specifically the pointer finger , like what Fed does ? Thank you
Federer has a eastern grip that's it for forehand and he routinely has the strings facing the 3 o'clock position del potro has a sw grip an keeps the strings facing forward so go figure. The main thing is the racquet stays up then drops below the ball prior to forward hip rotation
Fed is halfway between a Eastern and a Semi-Western, aptly named the Extreme Eastern. He's in between the bevels for Eastern and Semi-Western.
Helped a lot, thanks!
great video man!!!!!!!!
@Krutchtacular
federer doesn't use a semi-western grip, he uses an eastern grip
You have described this wrong, it is an extension of the wrist, a hyper extension. So all he is actually doing is lay the wrist back. Its wrist lay back. If you use langauge like turn it makes you think of rotation of the wrist. Which you can not actually do cause that joint does not facilitate that movement. I know you might think turn is a laymens term, but its really easy to misunderstand.
Also he is not doing it for spin he is laying his rest back so that its a smoother swing and a more consistant contact point. Your wrong with this video he does it. It produce a different positive result and you have explained it badly but have demonstrated it well. Very confusing!
richardflo2flo
sorry it is not wrist layback. It is hand lay back, my bad. Wrist allows movement of the hand.
How do I find the simi western grip? Could you explain using the index knuckle & heel pad; are both on bevel 4 or 3.5? What is strong Eastern?
best tennis lesson about diferent fhg for diferent take back...
Thank you so much for your assistance..
im sure that when he plays for serious he doesnt do the strokes exactly like the ones in the video. also he was maybe a bit uncomfortable with the eastern, so his instinct was to compensate with a flat shot with high follow through. i thought his semi western forehand was pretty good, you cant say it was flawed.
Donnay? WHAT YEAR IS THIS?!
Jon M. 2012
@Krutchtacular no.. second is Fernando Verdasco, then its Roger Federer
I still have not learned what grip is which. What bevel does my index knuckle and palm pad rests on etc....Telling me how to swing back with a simi western and I don;t have a clue what simi western in is counter productive for me.
@joshwesthill Do you have some proof? From all the analysis videos I've seen, like the FYB ones, it looks like he's using an extreme eastern or eastern.
Jeff is a genius, always so helpful and very clear when explaing. But his pants are too baggy must be 2 sizes 2 big lol, is that American fashion?
Creees ha ha :)
thanks, very useful for me
Now I'm trying to play western forehand, but I found that every shot i made are all to short and weak, I hope to make it deeper like Nole. What shall i do ?!
1 key is to catch the ball out as far in front of your body as you can comfortably manage. Having your arm extended and loose is key to getting depth on your shot, especially with the western grip where your wrist doesn't have nearly as much stability when your arm is tucked closer to your body. Other than that, squaring your shoulders and being sure not to swing more through the court than low to high helps with getting effective depth on the ball.
Thx for your reply mate!!! I'll try your tips on court~
Thx for the tips you've told me last time, but now i've got some problems while returning serves. I have trouble to change the grips while returning serves, what can do ?!
Yeah, changing grips on the service return can be tricky. One thing that partly makes up for it is that the western grip makes it fairly easy to block shots back with pace. So you typically won't need to take as big of a swing to get en effective return back in play once you get used to blocking shots back effectively.
Other than that, it's worth practicing switching your grips quickly to help you find your grips faster on the move. I'd also take note of which grips are easier for you to switch to. For instance, for me, it was easier for me to switch to my forehand than my backhand so early on I'd sometimes cheat a bit towards my back hand grip and then adjusted a bit when I got a better idea for where the serves were likely going.
I hope that helps. Also, you might want to take notes from a player like Djokovic. He uses that western forehand and is a wizard with the return game.
Yes I'm a big fan for him, he's a great returner.
how do u find an extreme semi western grip
Jeff 2 days I tried this and I must say, it is a strange,uncomfprtable feeling. Djoko is using this tchnique since being a kid, It's a natural forehand for him. I think that for people like me, club players, even if good level, this technique might cause damages to the security of the forehand shot. And frankly the spin result is not so great.
I am sure that another "trick" used by Jack Shock or Dominik Thiem, or Kokinakis is much better. These players are prepaering their forehand with the top of the racket head showing the net. This means that if they turn the top of the head backwards doint the BIG KICK just before hitting the ball, this is creating really a strong spinn and the ball is heavy. Speak about this technique.
Actually if you look at djokovic's 2006 videos, the forehand is quite different from his current form. His shot evolved over the years.
what grip use djokovic? western
Thanks for showing us a full western but calling it a semi-western.
Why is it that even though Federer uses a more conservative semi-western that he generates a ton of topspin? I've heard he gets a ton of RPMs, second only to Nadal.
I'll try it.
@laxwithme Extreme eastern/conservative semi-western are equivalent, if I'm not mistaken.
Experienced is the best teacher.
Great, my left earphone is broken and my left speaker is broken....why is this vid only have left sound working?
Fed uses an Eastern grip.
It would serve some of you well to look up who this guy is first before you comment.
Totally wrong about Eastern grip. WIth eastern grip, you still can face your racket to the fence at the back and it should be that way. He seems to be confused with Eastern and continental forehand grips.
JW Kim yes, I think the wrist is key too on the take back- whether it's a neutral wrist or a laid back wrist, which you can do both no matter the grip
Djokovic forehand is among the best when it comes to topspin.
1-Nadal
2-Andreev
3-Verdasco
4-Djokovic
5-Roddick{post 2007}
are the best spinners in the atp
Dont compare Fed with them.He wasnt second in the world.The analytics compared the top guys from that time which was in 07.He and roddick averaged the same back then,hitting more than Safin and less than Nadal.You all understood it wrong.He was never second in the world.
I hold an extreme western grip.
actually djokovic's follow through goes over the shoulder a lot
his shots got 2nd most rpm on tour ;)
My right ear enjoyed this.. -_-
My left ear disliked this video.,
djokovic uses western grip
Extreme Semi-Western? They call that western - extreme western..
lol and also , his left hand!! lol it would be more usefull if the teacher of the tutorial would be right handed!!
that´s not djokovic spin his left hand must swing to the body. to get Powerful swing.
DONNAY !!
Creating topspin got nothing to do with your grip. If u got the skill you can create a ton of topspin even with an eastern grip. Just look a fed...
@tshirttime84 Haha you're right! i'm always doing that.. (:
Too much talk
hahahha. Do u know who he is????
A student cannot feel what you are verbally explaining; by watching any video a student cannot get the physical feeling of the motions.
My TST_watch Tennis Swing Trainer UA-cam_enable users to get visual and physical feeling of the exact mechanics of the right move by seeing and feeling the positions of the racquet, user’s arms_wrists_parts of the body at each moment of the swing.
The laws of biomechanics/kinematics define the optimal swing;
a player only demonstrates his own approach to the better use thereof.
Too much talk...
Don't watch! He speaks and speaks, hits two easy balls and again speaks and speaks.
Lol extreme semi-western! Genius haha it's just western!
It's my understanding that Nadal for instance grips right in between western and semi-western. In other words to he has his hand right in between the 4th and 5th bevel. An easy way to explain that is to say something like "extreme semi-western". Not sure if it is the same thing for Djokovic or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.
Too much talk