the story of the glomar explorer and project azorian fits so perfectly into fallout I cant believe nobody has every done this before. amazing video I loved seeing fallout and history blended so seamlessly and I cant wait to see more
Thank you! It does work pretty well I'm not gunna lie. I wish they had done this or something similar to this in the game. A few terminal entries or whatnot explaining the asset flip would have been a minimal effort way to improve the situation. Then maybe I wouldn't still have a bad taste in my mouth about the Democracy and what could have been!
Honestly I didn't notice that the Chinese sub was the same as the Far Harbor US ballistic sub. The few times I've ever bothered with the Chinese sub mission I didn't have the Aquaboy perk so the rads were not exactly something I was trying to soak up so I didn't spend a lot of time lookin at the sub. I've been far more disappointed by the fact that the items inside are literally the same as anywhere else. Why on earth would the Chinese have Fancy Lad Snack cakes, or Dandy Boy Apples? So wanted there to be special Chinese items in that sub. Stuff you'd only ever get at the sub.
Agreed, and maybe some Chinese text inside lol. Imagine how little effort it would have taken to add a few textures with Chinese for use in the Yangtze. So given they didn't even do that, its not surprising they didn't make new meshes for Chinese specific items. Odd though, fallout 3 had Chinese specific pistols and assault rifles. They would have had a decent base to at least do something with those, but I suppose those items didn't have the highly stylized look to them that most of the weapons in 4 had. I'm pretty sure there was an underwater vault and a Kraken envisioned to go along with the Yangtze, perhaps the Yangtze work was being done too late in the development cycle and that is why they cut all the corners. A pity no doubt.
Fancy lads and dandy boys could have been resupplied from mama dulces, a shell/cover company for china's spies, they have facilities in fallout 3 and 76
@@mattps.3040 That is true, but it was just an example of how there were few Chinese items on a Chinese sub. It was just what I remembered off the top of my head. What I really wanted to see was maybe some worn out or broken Chinese weapons and items like what you could find in previous games. Stealth Suit for instance even if they didn't want you to have it or have it be very effective on the sub. It didn't feel any different than walking into any other part of the Commonwealth when this was a moment to do something different with. Like a mini-DLC in the main game. Stuff you can't get any other way, even if like the Acid soaker from Nuka World, you'd only want it for a display case.
I was gonna say this was my idea too, if they included some holotapes or terminal entries that Democracy was a captured Chinese submarine it would be so much better than what we got. And the irony of naming a captured Chinese vessel “Democracy” would be delicious.
@@PancakeBoi I mean the interior was fairly lacking sure, but they went for something with the model, like it or not, there was plenty of effort there.
The drydock naval base was probably the best location in all of far harbor, only about a week ago when i was going through the boat models did i find the smaller version, which at first i thought was a datamined but never added version until i saw its name. The sub design imo is cool but I can see where the whole "american boat but chinese design" comes into play.
For me it certainly was the best location, but I love me a U boat pen. Its a shame the vessel didn't live up to the location. I will admit though, I liked the spy story they told with it, even if the design bothered me to heck and back.
Something fairly similar happened during the Cold War. A russian submarine had a torpedo go off, causing the whole crew to suffocate. No one really knew what happened. But america does actually have an acoustic system that allows us to locate it. We also used a similar story, but it was titanium chunks on the ocean floor.
@@noghost8857 I was about to say that too. But his retell of this had the sub make it up in one peice where the cold War sub broke up some more when they tried to recover it.
It's a plausible tail on how it looks so close to the yangzi. The only thing I could see wrong is the journey it would take. It would make more since if it came from the Atlantic as it is usually not as deep as the pacific and the lore also states that China was operating in the Atlantic hence the launches of nukes from yangzi took place in Boston harbor and the sunk spy sub in point lookout is in maine
It certainly would make the logistics to be far more believable to be in the Atlantic. We do know though that the Chinese navy was operating in the pacific though due to the mission she was supposed to carry out when the bombs fell. That being said though, I went with the pacific because it stuck real close to the true story.
Especially considering the north Pacific is the deepest part of the pacific in terms of average depth over large areas, with most of it around 6-7000 meters deep, far deeper than any disabled sub could survive structurally intact let alone be recovered from, the Atlantic makes a lot more sense.
Great job, great head cannon. I really enjoyed how you used real world Cold War craziness. It really isn't used enough in Fallout, like the Stargate Project that really happened and was investigating psychic phenomena. That would fit great in Fallout, which has cannonical psychics in it.
Thank you! You are brilliant, the Stargate Project is absolutely begging for a fallout adaptation. I've added that to my notes, I hope I find a way to try using that!
0:52 it's so relatable that is quite depressing The lore you have created to fix the submarine is amazingly fitting Will we have videos about the battleship, cruise ship and cargo ship concept arts for fallout 4? Free cookies
This just reminds me about the Chinese sub you can find offshore in fallout 3’s Point Lookout dlc, sadly I woulda loved to have seen something more of it but I also like to think that with the Lone Wanderer fiddling with the Sub is what lead towards the Yangze being put into the Fallout 4’s Far Harbor dlc (if this makes sense but it’s my own idea of from 3 - 4 “one action leading towards a outcome” type thought)
You know, we’ve always thought of the Chinese sub in the middle of Boston’s Harbor as coming from China. What if instead it was stolen America that would explain why both designs are so similar and why both use Robco terminals and have other American memorabilia
I think that's also possible. China could have seized the Yangtze from the US during initial attacks on Alaska. It would be a little odd, at least I think it would be, that the captain seems to have such a strong connection to a captured sub, but it could be. As you say, it would also explain all the English and American products to an extent. I'd be cool with that if Bethesda does a half way decent job explaining it.
@@ghastlybespoke9541 Yeah, it's possible that all the American stuff is a result of the crew having to go ashore for spare parts and supplies until a majority of them went feral. Though that does make me curious as to how they got RobCo tech to interface with the Yangtze's systems
@@Sierra-208 RobCo just subscribes to the 177th Rule of Acquisition: "Know your enemies... but do business with them always." Or maybe Tony Stark's philosophy: "Keep your friends rich, and your enemies rich, and wait to find out which is which."
One small piece you could add, the sub would probably be radioactive from contaminates leaking from the ruptured warhead, if the US knew the general area the accident occurred they could use that to pinpoint the wreck's location.
I like this story, reminds me of the movie U-571 where Americans use a U-Boat (I forget if it was a captured one or a copy of one) to get up close to another U-Boat to board and capture its enigma machine.
I love the sub in far harbor but there was always something that bugged me. If you take a look at the land you'll notice something annoying. There is NO way to get that thing out to sea.
Agreed, you'd have to dig a big navigation trench to be able to get this sub in and out thanks to all the obstructions from its whackadoodle propulsion.
The tanks and a whole lot of vehicles in the Fallout universe doesn't make a ton of sense either. Their design philosophy was just build the biggest, baddest contraption with as much firepower and armor attached to it as possible. These things would have been a complete nightmare to manufacture, maintain and would likely broken down one way or another before it can even be fully deployed if it would to exist in the real-world.
The could of use like a giant vertbird or two or four Boeing CH-47 like helicopters but a version in the fallout universe when think about it the boat idea is probably cheaper.
For the lifting of the wreck? Those platforms wouldn't work from a plausible deniability stand point. A flight of vertibirds showing up at a random location in the ocean and then sending in divers and the like would certainly draw attention. I also wanted to stick pretty closely to the true story I based this theory on. I'd love to sea a lift variant of the vertibird though.
You would need like 200 Chinook helicopters to lift a waterlogged submarine of that size, and they wouldn't even be able to fly out that far to pick it up let alone make it back with it.
I like it, I understand that it does have some holes in lore. But honestly I didn’t mind one way or the other. It was still cool to see the submarine down there. And to be honest, it’s likely they tried to copy an old design they learned from the Chinese, not a salvage job.
or the more likely explanation... science is the same for all countries and countries will generating gravitate toward the same design since everyone is limited to the same physical requirement. but honestly, I didn't even notice they were similiar design... most players would see the chinese sub design anyway... I didn't know what it look like until I watch the youtube video xD
I get that the subs would be of similar designs, sure. A cylinder with propellers and a sail, but sharing the exact same design, just with bits of the hull cut out? I'm not buying that. Yeah lol, maybe I'm alone in being bothered by the Democracy. Wouldn't be the first time lol
Submarines made by different nations and superpowers now are generally fairly unique. You can see the difference between Soviet/Russian superpowers subs and that of US or Royal Navy
Me being a naval enthusiast and a fallout enthusiast. I always enjoy your videos, and I loved your stingray video as well as the Thicc boy. I really appreciate your content and I think your artwork is fantastic♥️🇺🇸💰
It is based directly on CIA Project Azorian, however, you are correct searching for the Titanic was likewise a cover story for another search operation, and many Navy people are pushing for the details of the Scorpion to be declassified.
You know there is a striking resemblance too a real world event in this story a similar ship was built by the United States too salvage a sunken Russian submarine i believe it was during the cold war. If you took inspiration from that for this story good on you it worked amazingly! If not well then either way amazing work
Lol I made the connection when you introduced the coffonite explorer, it’s really a cool irl story, Bethesda definitely could have put more work into it, like maybe lose the large propeller pylons or change the look of the propellers at the back, a few minor changes and it would’ve been much better Edit: also I would love to see what you think about the rivet city aircraft carrier
I'm currently working on rivet city actually. It will probably be a while till that video comes out though, haven't decided if I should include her fighter complement in the rivet city video or in its own dedicated video. If I go the dedicated video route it will likely be Fallout 4's UFO, Fallout 3's Jet Fighter, and then Rivet city. Rest assured though, its coming!
i like how you made the theory a fallout version of the Glomar explorer and project Azorian. for a interesting fact about that event the USSR actually knew that they where trying to salvage the submarine but they though the depth would make it impossible to recover.
This is gooood. I agree that it's a huge, but I suppose.... Understandable, overstep by Bethesda to not make something of the Submarine instead of just, major copy paste. Even though you've said yes, there are likely holes to be poked in this fun head canon; I would like to mention that the US was unsure if China had stealth submarines or not, trying to gather information on them. Maybe we can say a stealth sub and this more armed nuclear sub are separate entities!
I really really really hope the Yangtze design is not representative of a stealth submarine. I mean, yes she might have a caterpillar drive system, but its paired with that crazy profile and 4 propellers. The idea of the Yangtze being stealth makes me really sad. So yes, separate entities Bethesda PLEASE! lol
It really does! Also depending on if some of the conspiracy theories are to be believed, they actually succeeded. I saw it on the History channel once, it MUST be true lol.
A clandestine naval base would make a lot more sense than just a sub base at Bar Harbor considering Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, a sub yard, is only a few hours away from the island
I dunno when in the timeline you plan on this happening but I think it’d be cool if this was the original purpose of for power armour and it was later adopted for terrestrial use
The biggest change I would make to this is as follows. Instead of modified t51 Power Armor, prototype t60 power armor might make more sense in this case. My personal headcanon is that, the t60 platform, was stuck in Prototype hell for a long time, that's why you very rarely see it outside of Boston, before it could be Mass manufactured, it was used for Special Operations like this, as field-test platforms. That's why so few sets exist.
That's a fair change. I went with T51 specifically because it was more common. It does make since the prototypes could have been field-tested in such a matter as you suggest..
The story has the kind of vibe similar to the Kursk incident when the Russian Federation lost a nuclear submarine due to an explosion during a naval exercise.
The fact its based on a cold war OP where the US plucked a Soviet sub, makes the story more believable, plus based in some reality. 10/10 head cannon, will be my basis for the years to come.
I had the same thought when I did that, but then I realized I'm not set to make 113.9 Million a year like Bethesda either, so I gave myself a pass lol.
It's possible that whatever constraints and considerations that caused the Chinese design would also affect the design considerations of the US. Nowadays, most submarines are almost identical to each other, same with surface warships and even aircraft. It's possible that the US sub designs resemble the Chinese because that (for some in-universe reason) is simply the best way to make a sub. That's all conjecture, though. I mean, you hit the nail on the head. It was a nonsensical reuse of assets to speed up development. I love your theory! In my opinion, the House/Hughes dichotomy can never be discussed enough
I agree that both nations would face similar design constraints when developing submarines. I would also agree that submarines look similar to each other, not identical though. Take the sail for example of United States subs, and compare those to Russian and Chinese subs, there are clear differences like windows. Or to be more specific, take a gander at the Chinese Type 94 submarine and compare it to the Ohio class who have vastly different silhouettes. Though I suppose at the end of the day this is purely subjective, I'm sure the vast majority of people would still say they look the same. Thank you! I agree House is a really interesting focal point in the fallout universe, even more so considering it was Obsidian and not Bethesda that introduced him.
How poetic. The capitalist ship in game is an asset flip created by the real world capitalist company cutting corners. A Fallout story in itself. It has become meta.
I always thought that it was a Chinse submarine that was captured in it's drydock during the invasion of the Chinese mainland and pressed into service in the US navy. What was Bethesda's story to explain it?
Your theory is pretty close to my original theory of the Democracy being captured during operation Anchorage. Then I thought of the story of the K-129 and thought that was a lot more entertaining and went with that. Bethesda doesn't really explain the origin of the Democracy in the slightest, only telling us the story of her captain and his Chinese Spy love interest.
@@spydingo Ah I see, though it would be a massive undertaking to try and repair a sunken submarine to the exten that it would be cheaper to build a copy, though that could still work with your version.
I 100% agree with this theory, it explains away the inconsistancy with the design, and thanks to the chinese more advanced nuclear missile technology, shows why the far harbor missile is more 'advanced looking' than the conventional Titan II's we see in fallout new vegas. Very good work Mr. Dingo, it works well with why the chinese were also so interested in recovering the launch key to the democracy because it may have allowed the united states to comprimise the chinese nuclear codes and/or use them in some kind of false flag attack. Also love the Glomar Explorer, and project Azorian references, top notch!
@@spydingo I get a little 'Captain Ramius' vibe from him, a submariner who has spent decades serving and knows the democracy will only be used as a 'first strike' weapon so he decides to delay the launch as long as possible to prevent an already crazy world from getting crazier, if only he knew what was around the corner.
@@Pathfinder118 I hadn't really thought about it like that. I just thought the captain was too thirsty for his own good. I like this interpretation much better lol.
Probably not next. I've got some assets created for the UFO, Fallout 3 fighter jets, and Rivet city. I will certainly do all the cars at some point though. Other than the USS Constitution, cars, and various commercial vessels I think I've covered everything else in fallout 4 at that point.
Thematically, your theory makes a lot of sense: by that point in the war, the US would surely be desperate to get any chance, ANYTHING, to defeat China, and the Yuxi/USS Democracy fits that bill.
I'm not sure how I'm going to cover the cars in the series. I'm not really a car guy myself so I'm not sure if I can write a entertaining video on em' at least on a one off basis. I'm thinking about maybe grouping the cars into a single video perhaps? I've done pretty much every other vehicle from 4 though, so I'd love to do them to complete the "set".
It makes sense to me. I find it hard to believe that they'd name an ordinary and run of the mill American sub the USS Democracy, considering that that is kind of THE stereotypical American Ideal, and you'd expect that name to be reserved for something special (Like a one in a million chance-captured Chinese sub?) and on top of that, have it tucked away in such an advanced facility with only one drydock, isolated and being kept secret. The Choice for a name and location just scream "Unusual circumstances"
I do. From what I remember it doesn't really have a "Military" feel to it. Checks the interweb . . .Okay its more military than I remember. Certainly has a far less stylized look to it than in fallout 4, which is quite common amongst the vehicle designs. It's not really armed though, a fact that isn't surprising. The detail on the larger vehicles is generally lacking in fallout 3. Rivet city is missing armaments and propellers for example.
I'm sure I'm not the only one that knows this is ether by some massive coincidence or atleast the idea for this story. Has come from real life. When a Soviet submarine was lost and the United States tried to salvage it. But unlike in this story the submarine broke in half during the lift and the other half was left
When first entering the pen i was expecting something more like a traditional sub style, nothing too complicated or flashy but easy enough to have been implimented. But nope ofcourse that wasnt the easiest route so ofcourse thats not what happened...
Well I mean in real life it's hard to tell whos sub is what unless it's a typhoon. They'll look roughly the same. Some are longer cylinders than others.
I was going to comment that it would've made more sense that this sub design is actually American in origin and the Chinese just ripped it off, as they do IRL, but the single sub pen on a remote island on the east coast and this black project headcannon is co much cooler.
10/10 you absolutely fixed it. I love your fallout vehicle obsession. We're officially best friends now uwu. When do you wanna chat an entire day away in a discord dm about this kind of stuff? :P (though I gotta warn you. I'll want a mod made of everything and I don't have the money to be throwing around like that lol)
I'm glad you do! An entire day? Man I wish I had that kind of time on my hands. Imagine how much content I could create. You should totally join the discord though if you haven't already. Link is in the video description!
@@spydingo I mean, I'm busy a lot too. But stuff life this takes precedent! This is far more important than petty responsibilities like, work, and bills. It's totally valid to blow off all that stuff for fun things uwu
It certainly has a much more conventional design, a aesthetic choice that was common to Fallout 3 and by extension NV. I'd love to do a video on her, but it doesn't look like I'd have a lot to say, the model is lacking in detail. I will give it props though for having a propeller. Pun intended. That's more than I can say for rivet city.
The Chinese didn't study history hard enough. They should have known the Americans would find the wreck just like they found the K-129 which sank and was partially recovered in suspiciously similar chain of events.
It's sad that Bethesda isn't able to come up with a story for retcons and lazy reusing of assets. Fans shouldn't have to make up "head cannons" to fix their story, they should already have it
I'm assuming you are referring to the Attack Whale paint job from the thumbnail. That's fair, but I thought it was fun. Not a serious wartime paint job though, no doubt.
A fallout version of project Azorian and the fate of K-129, did a report on the story for a high school summer reading assignment. Edit book name is Red Star rouge
@@spydingo to be fair, it was a “pick a book of your choice of x minimum length and complexity” kind of assignment, not a “read this book and write about it” assignment
now all you need to do is rewrite the Brotherhood into the enclave, and say they were there to steal the institutes technology to go after lyons and co back in the wasteland, using their name as a cover and we might have a half decent story from fallout 4 then lol
Or perhaps like most modern era weapons we simply got the plans via espionage/blackmail/bribery and it was merely a prototype. I do like you're version though lol.
Yeah, between F3 and F4 Bethesda really leaned into stylized designs in general. The trains and Jets from 3 were conventional as well. Would be interesting to contrast the design philosophies one of these days.
Project Azorian is the story you are referencing. Anyway, i imagined that the reason the subs looked so samey, is because the chinese had simply done some IP theft, and made an inferior copy of our stuff....kinda like they do now, with other country's stuff.
I'm not opposed to it going in the other direction, but I do find it a little odd how fond the captain Zao (I think thats his name) is of the Yangtze if it is a captured vessel. That being said though, he has been living in it for 200 years so I suppose that attachment isn't so far fetched.
the story of the glomar explorer and project azorian fits so perfectly into fallout I cant believe nobody has every done this before. amazing video I loved seeing fallout and history blended so seamlessly and I cant wait to see more
Thank you! It does work pretty well I'm not gunna lie. I wish they had done this or something similar to this in the game. A few terminal entries or whatnot explaining the asset flip would have been a minimal effort way to improve the situation. Then maybe I wouldn't still have a bad taste in my mouth about the Democracy and what could have been!
@@spydingo the House/Hughes tie in was a stroke of genius frankly
Yes. I do think that is a pretty good fit.
great story
Honestly I didn't notice that the Chinese sub was the same as the Far Harbor US ballistic sub. The few times I've ever bothered with the Chinese sub mission I didn't have the Aquaboy perk so the rads were not exactly something I was trying to soak up so I didn't spend a lot of time lookin at the sub.
I've been far more disappointed by the fact that the items inside are literally the same as anywhere else. Why on earth would the Chinese have Fancy Lad Snack cakes, or Dandy Boy Apples? So wanted there to be special Chinese items in that sub. Stuff you'd only ever get at the sub.
Agreed, and maybe some Chinese text inside lol. Imagine how little effort it would have taken to add a few textures with Chinese for use in the Yangtze. So given they didn't even do that, its not surprising they didn't make new meshes for Chinese specific items. Odd though, fallout 3 had Chinese specific pistols and assault rifles. They would have had a decent base to at least do something with those, but I suppose those items didn't have the highly stylized look to them that most of the weapons in 4 had.
I'm pretty sure there was an underwater vault and a Kraken envisioned to go along with the Yangtze, perhaps the Yangtze work was being done too late in the development cycle and that is why they cut all the corners. A pity no doubt.
Captain must have gone ashore to scrounge supplies. The boat would have run out ages ago.
I mean, A hazard suit/cleanroom suit or power armour?
Fancy lads and dandy boys could have been resupplied from mama dulces, a shell/cover company for china's spies, they have facilities in fallout 3 and 76
@@mattps.3040 That is true, but it was just an example of how there were few Chinese items on a Chinese sub. It was just what I remembered off the top of my head.
What I really wanted to see was maybe some worn out or broken Chinese weapons and items like what you could find in previous games. Stealth Suit for instance even if they didn't want you to have it or have it be very effective on the sub.
It didn't feel any different than walking into any other part of the Commonwealth when this was a moment to do something different with. Like a mini-DLC in the main game. Stuff you can't get any other way, even if like the Acid soaker from Nuka World, you'd only want it for a display case.
I was gonna say this was my idea too, if they included some holotapes or terminal entries that Democracy was a captured Chinese submarine it would be so much better than what we got. And the irony of naming a captured Chinese vessel “Democracy” would be delicious.
Right? And it would have required so little effort from Bethesda to do so!
@@spydingo can’t really expect bethesda to put effort into this, when they barely put any effort into the yangze itself
@@PancakeBoi I mean the interior was fairly lacking sure, but they went for something with the model, like it or not, there was plenty of effort there.
the irony of naming any fallout vessel democracy is delicious.
The drydock naval base was probably the best location in all of far harbor, only about a week ago when i was going through the boat models did i find the smaller version, which at first i thought was a datamined but never added version until i saw its name. The sub design imo is cool but I can see where the whole "american boat but chinese design" comes into play.
For me it certainly was the best location, but I love me a U boat pen. Its a shame the vessel didn't live up to the location. I will admit though, I liked the spy story they told with it, even if the design bothered me to heck and back.
Something fairly similar happened during the Cold War. A russian submarine had a torpedo go off, causing the whole crew to suffocate. No one really knew what happened. But america does actually have an acoustic system that allows us to locate it. We also used a similar story, but it was titanium chunks on the ocean floor.
The story of the Kursk is another really fascinating one. Maybe one day I'll find a way to work it into one of my videos, that would be really neat.
Well the story that was told was almost exactly what happened to a Russian Golf 2 sub back in the 60s. Look up project Azorian some time.
The boat was the K-129 for reference.
@@spydingo I thought you were referencing the Kursk lmao
@@noghost8857 I was about to say that too. But his retell of this had the sub make it up in one peice where the cold War sub broke up some more when they tried to recover it.
It's a plausible tail on how it looks so close to the yangzi. The only thing I could see wrong is the journey it would take. It would make more since if it came from the Atlantic as it is usually not as deep as the pacific and the lore also states that China was operating in the Atlantic hence the launches of nukes from yangzi took place in Boston harbor and the sunk spy sub in point lookout is in maine
It certainly would make the logistics to be far more believable to be in the Atlantic. We do know though that the Chinese navy was operating in the pacific though due to the mission she was supposed to carry out when the bombs fell. That being said though, I went with the pacific because it stuck real close to the true story.
Especially considering the north Pacific is the deepest part of the pacific in terms of average depth over large areas, with most of it around 6-7000 meters deep, far deeper than any disabled sub could survive structurally intact let alone be recovered from, the Atlantic makes a lot more sense.
Great job, great head cannon. I really enjoyed how you used real world Cold War craziness. It really isn't used enough in Fallout, like the Stargate Project that really happened and was investigating psychic phenomena. That would fit great in Fallout, which has cannonical psychics in it.
Thank you! You are brilliant, the Stargate Project is absolutely begging for a fallout adaptation. I've added that to my notes, I hope I find a way to try using that!
I just realized that you adapted the very real Project Azorian and the recovery of soviet submarine K-129. Impressive
thats what i was thinking
Seeing you redesign stuff and make head canon is awesome
I'm happy to hear it!
0:52 it's so relatable that is quite depressing
The lore you have created to fix the submarine is amazingly fitting
Will we have videos about the battleship, cruise ship and cargo ship concept arts for fallout 4?
Free cookies
It hits the feels for sure.
@@spydingo Also, you gain extra points for the real historical inspiration.
Good job :)
This just reminds me about the Chinese sub you can find offshore in fallout 3’s Point Lookout dlc, sadly I woulda loved to have seen something more of it but I also like to think that with the Lone Wanderer fiddling with the Sub is what lead towards the Yangze being put into the Fallout 4’s Far Harbor dlc (if this makes sense but it’s my own idea of from 3 - 4 “one action leading towards a outcome” type thought)
You know, we’ve always thought of the Chinese sub in the middle of Boston’s Harbor as coming from China. What if instead it was stolen America that would explain why both designs are so similar and why both use Robco terminals and have other American memorabilia
I think that's also possible. China could have seized the Yangtze from the US during initial attacks on Alaska. It would be a little odd, at least I think it would be, that the captain seems to have such a strong connection to a captured sub, but it could be. As you say, it would also explain all the English and American products to an extent. I'd be cool with that if Bethesda does a half way decent job explaining it.
@@spydingo It's also very on brand.
@@spydingo i always assumed his connection to the sub was from yknow living in it for over 200 years
@@ghastlybespoke9541 Yeah, it's possible that all the American stuff is a result of the crew having to go ashore for spare parts and supplies until a majority of them went feral. Though that does make me curious as to how they got RobCo tech to interface with the Yangtze's systems
@@Sierra-208 RobCo just subscribes to the 177th Rule of Acquisition: "Know your enemies... but do business with them always."
Or maybe Tony Stark's philosophy: "Keep your friends rich, and your enemies rich, and wait to find out which is which."
One small piece you could add, the sub would probably be radioactive from contaminates leaking from the ruptured warhead, if the US knew the general area the accident occurred they could use that to pinpoint the wreck's location.
I like this story, reminds me of the movie U-571 where Americans use a U-Boat (I forget if it was a captured one or a copy of one) to get up close to another U-Boat to board and capture its enigma machine.
Red October Meets U-571, love it!
It was a mock-up built from an American sub.
I just discovered your channel recently and it surprises me that you're so relatively small! awesome content
I'm glad you did! Hopefully this community will continue to grow as long as I can keep creating quality content. =)
I love the sub in far harbor but there was always something that bugged me. If you take a look at the land you'll notice something annoying. There is NO way to get that thing out to sea.
Agreed, you'd have to dig a big navigation trench to be able to get this sub in and out thanks to all the obstructions from its whackadoodle propulsion.
The tanks and a whole lot of vehicles in the Fallout universe doesn't make a ton of sense either. Their design philosophy was just build the biggest, baddest contraption with as much firepower and armor attached to it as possible. These things would have been a complete nightmare to manufacture, maintain and would likely broken down one way or another before it can even be fully deployed if it would to exist in the real-world.
Fixing Bethesda's mess
Me an old school fan: do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?!
lol yeah, that's why I put the USS Democracy bit up front.
I really like the head cannon definitely helps with the lore behind the sub design
I'm glad! I'm really happy with it myself.
@@spydingo I love seeing peoples head cannon stuff, as let's be fair Bethesda doesn't like to give us the lore for things to make sense lol 😆
The could of use like a giant vertbird or two or four Boeing CH-47 like helicopters but a version in the fallout universe when think about it the boat idea is probably cheaper.
For the lifting of the wreck? Those platforms wouldn't work from a plausible deniability stand point. A flight of vertibirds showing up at a random location in the ocean and then sending in divers and the like would certainly draw attention. I also wanted to stick pretty closely to the true story I based this theory on. I'd love to sea a lift variant of the vertibird though.
@@spydingo yeah it would cost alot money also the fuel and people in america might see it why the boat they could go incognito.
You would need like 200 Chinook helicopters to lift a waterlogged submarine of that size, and they wouldn't even be able to fly out that far to pick it up let alone make it back with it.
I like it, I understand that it does have some holes in lore. But honestly I didn’t mind one way or the other. It was still cool to see the submarine down there. And to be honest, it’s likely they tried to copy an old design they learned from the Chinese, not a salvage job.
or the more likely explanation... science is the same for all countries and countries will generating gravitate toward the same design since everyone is limited to the same physical requirement. but honestly, I didn't even notice they were similiar design... most players would see the chinese sub design anyway... I didn't know what it look like until I watch the youtube video xD
I get that the subs would be of similar designs, sure. A cylinder with propellers and a sail, but sharing the exact same design, just with bits of the hull cut out? I'm not buying that. Yeah lol, maybe I'm alone in being bothered by the Democracy. Wouldn't be the first time lol
@@spydingo i love fallout and you making videos abut aircraft and other things from fallout make me a fan of you keep up the work!
@@raylee49 Thanks, I'll certainly try!
Submarines made by different nations and superpowers now are generally fairly unique.
You can see the difference between Soviet/Russian superpowers subs and that of US or Royal Navy
Me being a naval enthusiast and a fallout enthusiast. I always enjoy your videos, and I loved your stingray video as well as the Thicc boy. I really appreciate your content and I think your artwork is fantastic♥️🇺🇸💰
Thanks! I really appreciate it. I put a lot of time into the artwork so I'm thrilled you like it.
The story is based on the titanic search which was a cover for finding 2 crashed american nuclear subs
It is based directly on CIA Project Azorian, however, you are correct searching for the Titanic was likewise a cover story for another search operation, and many Navy people are pushing for the details of the Scorpion to be declassified.
You know there is a striking resemblance too a real world event in this story a similar ship was built by the United States too salvage a sunken Russian submarine i believe it was during the cold war. If you took inspiration from that for this story good on you it worked amazingly! If not well then either way amazing work
CIA Project Azorian
The Soviet sub and Howard Hughes, with the nuke sliding out when they lifted it.
Or did the nuke fall out? Queue the conspiracy theories!
Lol I made the connection when you introduced the coffonite explorer, it’s really a cool irl story, Bethesda definitely could have put more work into it, like maybe lose the large propeller pylons or change the look of the propellers at the back, a few minor changes and it would’ve been much better
Edit: also I would love to see what you think about the rivet city aircraft carrier
I'm currently working on rivet city actually. It will probably be a while till that video comes out though, haven't decided if I should include her fighter complement in the rivet city video or in its own dedicated video. If I go the dedicated video route it will likely be Fallout 4's UFO, Fallout 3's Jet Fighter, and then Rivet city. Rest assured though, its coming!
@@spydingo awesome, I would mention the fighters but give them their own video
@5:21 Who's Richard House?
This should be officially lore! Great job!!!
i like how you made the theory a fallout version of the Glomar explorer and project Azorian.
for a interesting fact about that event the USSR actually knew that they where trying to salvage the submarine but they though the depth would make it impossible to recover.
I didn't know the USSR actually knew about it. They were pretty accurate in that assumption though. At least 50 percent accurate lol
don't some submarine launched ballistic missiles flood the missile compartment before firing?
This is gooood. I agree that it's a huge, but I suppose.... Understandable, overstep by Bethesda to not make something of the Submarine instead of just, major copy paste.
Even though you've said yes, there are likely holes to be poked in this fun head canon; I would like to mention that the US was unsure if China had stealth submarines or not, trying to gather information on them. Maybe we can say a stealth sub and this more armed nuclear sub are separate entities!
I really really really hope the Yangtze design is not representative of a stealth submarine. I mean, yes she might have a caterpillar drive system, but its paired with that crazy profile and 4 propellers. The idea of the Yangtze being stealth makes me really sad. So yes, separate entities Bethesda PLEASE! lol
This is a great way to explain an asset flip, it always amazes me how great storytellers fallout fans are
Ahh the wonders of Bethesda visual story telling.
"If it doesn't make sense MAKE SOMETHING UP."
Thanks Todd.
A tale as old as Bethesda lol
knowing that the US have actually attampted this with a russian Uboat irl makes this so much better
It really does! Also depending on if some of the conspiracy theories are to be believed, they actually succeeded. I saw it on the History channel once, it MUST be true lol.
Great video. Even greater use of the word detritus.
A clandestine naval base would make a lot more sense than just a sub base at Bar Harbor considering Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, a sub yard, is only a few hours away from the island
I dunno when in the timeline you plan on this happening but I think it’d be cool if this was the original purpose of for power armour and it was later adopted for terrestrial use
The biggest change I would make to this is as follows. Instead of modified t51 Power Armor, prototype t60 power armor might make more sense in this case. My personal headcanon is that, the t60 platform, was stuck in Prototype hell for a long time, that's why you very rarely see it outside of Boston, before it could be Mass manufactured, it was used for Special Operations like this, as field-test platforms. That's why so few sets exist.
That's a fair change. I went with T51 specifically because it was more common. It does make since the prototypes could have been field-tested in such a matter as you suggest..
The story has the kind of vibe similar to the Kursk incident when the Russian Federation lost a nuclear submarine due to an explosion during a naval exercise.
I loving all of this Fallout fan lore to fix the current mess of the Bethesda canon!
I'm glad to hear it!
Howard Huges helped to get a sunken soviet sub .. and Mr House is based on Howard Huges
That crane on the explorer looks awfully like someone doing the halasana pose.
The fact its based on a cold war OP where the US plucked a Soviet sub, makes the story more believable, plus based in some reality. 10/10 head cannon, will be my basis for the years to come.
The exploration ship, and the recovery ship were just an asset flip. Lame. 😅
I had the same thought when I did that, but then I realized I'm not set to make 113.9 Million a year like Bethesda either, so I gave myself a pass lol.
@@spydingo thanks for replying I almost forgot to subscribe. 🤙
I remember what this was based on but don’t remember the name of the sub, it was a Russian one and is what hunt for red October was inspired by
Dude my head made up a similar story to try to grapple with why it was exactly the same as the yangzee that it was captured or something like that
It's possible that whatever constraints and considerations that caused the Chinese design would also affect the design considerations of the US.
Nowadays, most submarines are almost identical to each other, same with surface warships and even aircraft. It's possible that the US sub designs resemble the Chinese because that (for some in-universe reason) is simply the best way to make a sub.
That's all conjecture, though. I mean, you hit the nail on the head. It was a nonsensical reuse of assets to speed up development.
I love your theory! In my opinion, the House/Hughes dichotomy can never be discussed enough
I agree that both nations would face similar design constraints when developing submarines. I would also agree that submarines look similar to each other, not identical though. Take the sail for example of United States subs, and compare those to Russian and Chinese subs, there are clear differences like windows. Or to be more specific, take a gander at the Chinese Type 94 submarine and compare it to the Ohio class who have vastly different silhouettes. Though I suppose at the end of the day this is purely subjective, I'm sure the vast majority of people would still say they look the same.
Thank you! I agree House is a really interesting focal point in the fallout universe, even more so considering it was Obsidian and not Bethesda that introduced him.
I had notifications turned on! Wtf UA-cam didn't tell me! Also, I know the mission this is based on, I just can't remember what it was called.
I don't get why Fallout 4 made their subs look like weird mechanical whales. Previous fallout entries namely 2 and 3 had normal looking subs
Will you do an video on Fallout London vehicles when that mod comes out.
You betcha!
How poetic. The capitalist ship in game is an asset flip created by the real world capitalist company cutting corners. A Fallout story in itself. It has become meta.
lol you are not wrong.
What’s up with your mainland China map bro?
I always thought that it was a Chinse submarine that was captured in it's drydock during the invasion of the Chinese mainland and pressed into service in the US navy.
What was Bethesda's story to explain it?
Your theory is pretty close to my original theory of the Democracy being captured during operation Anchorage. Then I thought of the story of the K-129 and thought that was a lot more entertaining and went with that.
Bethesda doesn't really explain the origin of the Democracy in the slightest, only telling us the story of her captain and his Chinese Spy love interest.
@@spydingo Ah I see, though it would be a massive undertaking to try and repair a sunken submarine to the exten that it would be cheaper to build a copy, though that could still work with your version.
@@Louis-s8x That is very true! That's one of the plot holes for sure. I mean she was underwater for years in this scenario.
I 100% agree with this theory, it explains away the inconsistancy with the design, and thanks to the chinese more advanced nuclear missile technology, shows why the far harbor missile is more 'advanced looking' than the conventional Titan II's we see in fallout new vegas. Very good work Mr. Dingo, it works well with why the chinese were also so interested in recovering the launch key to the democracy because it may have allowed the united states to comprimise the chinese nuclear codes and/or use them in some kind of false flag attack. Also love the Glomar Explorer, and project Azorian references, top notch!
Right? It ties in pretty well with the existing storyline in my opinion with the spy and thirsty captain. I'm glad you enjoyed!
@@spydingo I get a little 'Captain Ramius' vibe from him, a submariner who has spent decades serving and knows the democracy will only be used as a 'first strike' weapon so he decides to delay the launch as long as possible to prevent an already crazy world from getting crazier, if only he knew what was around the corner.
@@Pathfinder118 I hadn't really thought about it like that. I just thought the captain was too thirsty for his own good. I like this interpretation much better lol.
Is the recovery story based on Project Azorian?
Correct! You get it!
Fun fact: IRL CIA did something similar during the late cold war, were they stole a soviet Mi-24 during a sandstorm.
Could you do the Corvega Cars next?
Probably not next. I've got some assets created for the UFO, Fallout 3 fighter jets, and Rivet city. I will certainly do all the cars at some point though. Other than the USS Constitution, cars, and various commercial vessels I think I've covered everything else in fallout 4 at that point.
What would be the characters for your name? Is it 鱼西 Fish 4? 鱼细 thin fish? Argh, can't get it right!
I can safely say, I have no idea! lol
@@spydingo fine, fine! I was just wondering what's the translation, as I'm learning Chinese and wanted to look the name up!
Thematically, your theory makes a lot of sense: by that point in the war, the US would surely be desperate to get any chance, ANYTHING, to defeat China, and the Yuxi/USS Democracy fits that bill.
Can you do the corvega blitz coup in fallout 4
I'm not sure how I'm going to cover the cars in the series. I'm not really a car guy myself so I'm not sure if I can write a entertaining video on em' at least on a one off basis. I'm thinking about maybe grouping the cars into a single video perhaps? I've done pretty much every other vehicle from 4 though, so I'd love to do them to complete the "set".
Thank you for doing the hard work for us.
I've never found the Yangze so couldn't care and I didn't notice the US submarine looked in anyway odd anyhow so
It makes sense to me. I find it hard to believe that they'd name an ordinary and run of the mill American sub the USS Democracy, considering that that is kind of THE stereotypical American Ideal, and you'd expect that name to be reserved for something special (Like a one in a million chance-captured Chinese sub?) and on top of that, have it tucked away in such an advanced facility with only one drydock, isolated and being kept secret. The Choice for a name and location just scream "Unusual circumstances"
Do you know about the Chinese submarine off the coast of Point Lookout in Fallout 3?
I do. From what I remember it doesn't really have a "Military" feel to it. Checks the interweb . . .Okay its more military than I remember. Certainly has a far less stylized look to it than in fallout 4, which is quite common amongst the vehicle designs. It's not really armed though, a fact that isn't surprising. The detail on the larger vehicles is generally lacking in fallout 3. Rivet city is missing armaments and propellers for example.
I'm sure I'm not the only one that knows this is ether by some massive coincidence or atleast the idea for this story. Has come from real life. When a Soviet submarine was lost and the United States tried to salvage it. But unlike in this story the submarine broke in half during the lift and the other half was left
Actually, “Yuxi” probably means “Emperor’s Seal” in Chinese. There’s also a city/prefecture named Yuxi in China’s Southwest.
Great work! Makes better sense to me.
It is based off the true story of the K-1 29 otherwise known as the real hunt for the red October
When first entering the pen i was expecting something more like a traditional sub style, nothing too complicated or flashy but easy enough to have been implimented.
But nope ofcourse that wasnt the easiest route so ofcourse thats not what happened...
Okay to be fair, even in real life pretty much ever military submarine looks the same
simpler theory, technological convergence, as we saw with the Type XXI U.boot after WW2
nice. and pretty much historically kinda correct.
Well I mean in real life it's hard to tell whos sub is what unless it's a typhoon. They'll look roughly the same. Some are longer cylinders than others.
your vocabulary is so good.
Bethesda better hire you when making fallout 5
And have some youtuber rip apart my story? No thank you =P
Making it the K-129 of fallout universe would make so much sense lol
This is my head cannon now too, and now I want to find houses spruce goose!
I'd love to see a fallout version of the Spruce Goose, that would be wild!
@@spydingo imagine having to clear a ocean bay of ocean monsters or something so someone can either take off or land a atomic powered spruce goose
5:15 Mr houes really play big role in fallout universe
except that nukes silos on strategic subs get flooded before they are launched
a bit of water doesnt do anything
Well, the Soviet K-219 sank following the scenario I described, so I don't think its as implausible as you might think.
@@spydingo touché
I was going to comment that it would've made more sense that this sub design is actually American in origin and the Chinese just ripped it off, as they do IRL, but the single sub pen on a remote island on the east coast and this black project headcannon is co much cooler.
10/10 you absolutely fixed it. I love your fallout vehicle obsession. We're officially best friends now uwu. When do you wanna chat an entire day away in a discord dm about this kind of stuff? :P (though I gotta warn you. I'll want a mod made of everything and I don't have the money to be throwing around like that lol)
I'm glad you do! An entire day? Man I wish I had that kind of time on my hands. Imagine how much content I could create. You should totally join the discord though if you haven't already. Link is in the video description!
@@spydingo I mean, I'm busy a lot too. But stuff life this takes precedent! This is far more important than petty responsibilities like, work, and bills. It's totally valid to blow off all that stuff for fun things uwu
check out the SSN-38-1A from point lockout :D
It certainly has a much more conventional design, a aesthetic choice that was common to Fallout 3 and by extension NV. I'd love to do a video on her, but it doesn't look like I'd have a lot to say, the model is lacking in detail. I will give it props though for having a propeller. Pun intended. That's more than I can say for rivet city.
The Chinese didn't study history hard enough. They should have known the Americans would find the wreck just like they found the K-129 which sank and was partially recovered in suspiciously similar chain of events.
My God the magikarp eyebot submarine
It's sad that Bethesda isn't able to come up with a story for retcons and lazy reusing of assets. Fans shouldn't have to make up "head cannons" to fix their story, they should already have it
Oh - I had almost the same anticipation/realization arc watching this. I thought it was going to be a mod that "fixed" things...
I mean if I made you feel something strongly in any direction I consider that a success!
Love the real world parallels
maybe the yangtze was a submarine that was designed to look like a us one
The blue bothers my eyes.
Yeah I agree, I can't see it too well
I'm assuming you are referring to the Attack Whale paint job from the thumbnail. That's fair, but I thought it was fun. Not a serious wartime paint job though, no doubt.
@@spydingo I Like it not gonna lie
A fallout version of project Azorian and the fate of K-129, did a report on the story for a high school summer reading assignment. Edit book name is Red Star rouge
Wow, I wish my reading assignments were over cool topics like the K-129. Was always Animal Farm or some thing like that.
@@spydingo to be fair, it was a “pick a book of your choice of x minimum length and complexity” kind of assignment, not a “read this book and write about it” assignment
"i reject your reality and substitute my own."
Honestly I don’t mind since literally every submarine nowadays looks super similar
now all you need to do is rewrite the Brotherhood into the enclave, and say they were there to steal the institutes technology to go after lyons and co back in the wasteland, using their name as a cover and we might have a half decent story from fallout 4 then lol
I hope bethesda will see this video. And heck, maybe we’ll get a new suit of t-51 or PA paint scheme from the scoreboard for it in 76.
btw, it'd be the S.S.N. Democracy, as it is a nuclear powered submarine, right?
Or perhaps like most modern era weapons we simply got the plans via espionage/blackmail/bribery and it was merely a prototype. I do like you're version though lol.
this is now cannon for me i just wish it was in the game.
It's weird how in F3 (point lookout dlc) the chinese got normal subs and in F4 whale like ones
Yeah, between F3 and F4 Bethesda really leaned into stylized designs in general. The trains and Jets from 3 were conventional as well. Would be interesting to contrast the design philosophies one of these days.
@@spydingo Sounds nice and your "Spy/recycled" U-Boat Theory sounds plauseable.
I honestly might make my own version inspired by this video!
Do it!
Project Azorian is the story you are referencing.
Anyway, i imagined that the reason the subs looked so samey, is because the chinese had simply done some IP theft, and made an inferior copy of our stuff....kinda like they do now, with other country's stuff.
I think the Yangtze being a captured vessel makes more sense, since it has english text all over it
I'm not opposed to it going in the other direction, but I do find it a little odd how fond the captain Zao (I think thats his name) is of the Yangtze if it is a captured vessel. That being said though, he has been living in it for 200 years so I suppose that attachment isn't so far fetched.