Vertical Farming: A Professional Grower Checks the Hype
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
- Vertical Farming proponents make many claims about their growing systems, and in this video, I'll have a closer look at those statements. I'm always enthusiastic to hear about innovations in horticulture, but when I see the promise (from multiple systems and suppliers) that the greenhouses or indoor growing spaces are completely pest free, I have to chalk that up as hype.
Likewise, the range of crops that can be grown seems a little exaggerated - I have no doubt that you can grow corn or blueberries in an indoor setting, but the real question is: would it make any sense?
Some sources glossed over the issues of intensive energy use, seemingly counting on technological improvements to solve the problem - but to me, it's a man-made problem. There's loads of easy improvements to improve the yields in greenhouse-based horticulture without packing them up and putting them in city warehouses.
I really do appreciate all the information and guidance offered by Bob Holm and the staff at Sky Greens Canada. As an aside to the video topic, it's a Canadian manufacturing success story: having licensed the technology from Singapore for distribution in North American and Europe, Sky Greens Canada brought the manufacturing back here to Canada. I always hear about manufacturing jobs going oversees, but this one went the opposite direction, saving money along the way! You can see more information on their growing systems at: skygreenscanada.com/
Video Credits:
Thanks to Sky Greens Canada for video clips of the production greenhouse in Singapore and of barley fodder
Clips from the following 3 videos were included for commentary and criticism, which I would be happy to defend as fair use:
Vertical: The future of Farming by Vimeo user vertical-film.com
Vertical Farms Could Take Over the World by Freethink
The Story of Little Leaf Farms by Little Leaf Farm
Image Credits:
日本語: 桑の水耕栽培（ストリーム、長野県岡谷市）by Satoshi KINOKUNI CC BY 2.0
Vertical Farming Tower Concept by Cjacobs627 at English Wikipedia CC BY-SA 3.0
Tomato rows at Lufa Farms, the world’s first commercial rooftop greenhouses by Lufa Farms CC BY-SA 2.0
Indoor Greens purple light by Lianoland Wimons CC BY-SA 4.0
Taipei AGORA GARDEN LUXURIOUS RESIDENTIAL TOWER - proposal by forgemind webuse 0009 CC BY 2.0
Disney Living with the Land greenhouse by ManoaChild CC BY-SA 3.0
Foods of the Future from World of Tomorrow by Neil Ardley photo by S Woodside CC BY-SA 2.0
Verticrop by valcenteu CC BY-SA 3.0
Vertical Farm Finland by ifarm.fi CC BY-SA 4.0
Tomato seedlings by Dwight Sipler CC BY 2.0
Microgreens by Idéalités CC BY-SA 4.0
iFarm Inside by Ilnar A. Salakhiev CC BY-SA 4.0 - Навчання та стиль
This was packed with info! Great video, an interesting topic and you raised some valid concerns. And of course you did a good job of taking a step back and explained some alternatives which people don’t always consider, the “what are we trying to accomplish here” perspective.
Thanks for the video! 👍
Thanks so much for the feedback - it went a little longer than I was planning, so I wasn't sure if I'd hit the mark.
Energy costs are getting higher, diseases cannot be prevented completely and a blackout for example could destroy the plants.
Thanks Kati - good point about a blackout! I'm sure they build in backup natural gas generators, etc. but it really bears thinking about how this relies on cheap, plentiful electricity. I hear last year the governor of California asked people not to plug in their electric cars! Are we really so sure that the energy grid could even handle all the extra load if even 5% of crop production was moved indoors?
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm Jason, I know we viewers can be a bit OTT with the adoration comments, however you are one special, scientific, lovely, fascinating person, 1 day I would love to come over the pond and do a few days work for you.
I don’t think we have really thought out a total switch to electric, like the environmental impact on mining to build them, disposing of batteries, and of course providing the electricity.
My thoughts are that present vehicles in Canada could be built to get a Great Deal more mileage right now, and hybrids seem the “lesser” of the concerns as far as to how the battery is recharged.
Use the sun for gosh sakes!
Some vertical farms are not all LED lights
I see these “modern” concepts of growing food as a space savings . I would raise two thoughts. How nutritious is the food that is grown and what about taste? Modern grown hot house tomatoes can’t compete with a fresh from the garden ( grown in soil) . Great subject matter and video. Very well presented.
Really good questions, and consumer acceptance will definitely play a role in the success of these kinds of systems. Having been around the Farmers Market scene for so long, I respect that the local food movement has shortened the distance from farmer to customer. There are more conversations about quality and growing practices - and I'm truly not sure how the artificially lit factory-farm produce will sit with customers.
Well can I say that hydroponically, areoponically produce does taste much better and have more nutrients than the ones you get in your supermarket, and second the farms you usually buy from comes from CORPORATIONS NOT LOCALS!
And can I prove it, yes! Because I did grow them myself and taste better than I expected
Hi Jason, I am new to your channel and LOVE the content. You are very relatable, and speak with perfect instructions and intelligence :) Keep up the great work!
A question that I've not found an answer to: is the nutrition in, say, lettuce or spinach grown under lights in a closed building comparable to the same crop grown under full sunlight? I think there must be a difference.
Thanks David. That's a valid question, and what I've heard is that yes, they can yield comparable quality to outdoor systems. In fact, what they *say* is that they're able to manipulate the light, nutrients and conditions to result in superior flavor and nutrition. Of course, that would depend on that vitamins and phytochemicals they're actually measuring - and as with all hardcore science, the devil's in the details of the study. I know a couple of people I would trust to sort through it in detail, but as to whether they'd be granted access to the data is another matter.
I love this type of video! First thought came to mind…a puppy mill for plants just cleaner. Then at the end you made the feed lot comparison! This is very well done. Thank you Jason!
yes. It is factory farming. In an actuall factory... I don't want to eat enything grown like that...
I found this extremely interesting Jason so thank you for bringing vertical farming systems to our attention 😃😃😃
My pleasure Leia!
You are right on the mark Jason.
As someone who tends to use unconventional or non-typical methods of growing for different reasons, I take advantage of vertical growing when I can. In fact, most growers do, but we also recognize the limitations.
I can growing about 100,000 Arabica coffee seedlings in less than 1,000sqft/333sqm of space vertically until they have 2-4 leaves on them and then they need to go horizontal or flat because they need open vertical space.
Leafy greens, strawberries, and any low growing plants are easy to grow vertical because they naturally grow in short stature.
I believe we (including yourself) already utilized a great deal of vertical growing in a practical efficient manner. Some growers have refined their systems and others simply take advantage of the, small plants take up small space idea, but it's all part of the same vertical process.
Yes, there is absolutely an extreme media pump for unrealistic ideologies.
Here is a scientific fact:
Removing natural resources from growing results in eventual failure.
Proof.
A few years back China built a growing station on the moon trying to jump ahead of the rest of the world for sustained space travel.
They had multiple grow methods as back-ups to ensure success with artificial lighting, reflective lighting, and others methods, but in the end the whole operation failed because nature is necessary.
Most people have no idea that China even went to the moon let alone built this operation, but this experiment proved that artificial systems can work in limited capacity, but without the natural resources it will eventually fail.
There is enormous potential in the vertical growing industry, but obvious limitations exist just like every other growing space.
Wise growers use multiple methods for getting the best results and recognize the processes that work and the ones that don't.
Of course we all all get stuck in our ways and tend to resist things we don't fully understand, but some choose to innovate and try new things.
Thank goodness for all of you innovators because that is where better growing comes from. Some things work and others do not, but the process of trying makes it better for everyone.
Conventional farming has worked for millenia, but new innovation has improved the process in unbelievable ways over time.
There is always room for improvement, but it has to be honest and that is really where this particular industry struggles the most. Anyone who grows plants can see that some fantasy land statements simply cannot be true while others have great promise and potential.
This is definitely a worthwhile topic for conversation.🤙
Thanks so much. You're 100% right - it's a false dichotomy between "horizontal" and "vertical" growing. Good gardeners and farmers rarely think in terms of a flat crop, but in layers of canopy. That doesn't mean there's no room to improve, but by no means do I think it's a one-or-the-other choice between traditional field agriculture and fully artificial urban mega-farms.
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm Exactly.
There is room for all kinds of diversified growing.🤙
I was a pleasure to Meet you Jason. Great video Thank you!
Hi Jason. I love how you share your views on various gardening techniques and trends.
I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it Annie! I get a little more time for this kind of video in the off season.
Can I ask what you think, Jason, about this idea of "super-packed nutrition" of micro-greens? Sceptic growers I know say that micro greens can't be that nutritious, as all the nutrients have to come from what is stored within the tiny seed. You don't get that much from eating the seeds, and you won't get much for eating small shoots. The growers don't add anything. Any thoughts? Is a scene that has been madly over sold?
In fairness, most seeds are pretty packed with energy and nutrition, because that's their function. When sprouted, the chemical changes in those seeds can be significant to their nutritional values. For instance, lectins are found in the protective seed coats of legumes and other seeds. To animals, these are anti-nutrients, and can even make you sick (which is why beans need to be cooked) - but sprouting metabolizes those lectins. There are loads of other major enzymatic changes that happen with germination. I'm no nutritionist, but I'm told that these can make a huge difference in the dietary value. I don't think I'd go so far as to say hype - just that you'd have to weigh the pros and cons and decide if it's worth the extra cost or effort of sprouting.
Very helpful info. Thank you
Ok……I’ll ask…….what’s the green tires for? Weed whip protector or pot-n-tire technique?
You bet- mowing and weed protection mainly. Here's the vid about it: ua-cam.com/video/u0-cnrOZvRo/v-deo.html
Very informative. Thanks!
Great video! I've been wondering above this method. I can't even bring myself to grow my microgreens indoors. Everything is done outside, under sunlight with organic spoil.
Nice!
I keep failing rooting roses man😢 any tips I’ve been using sand no humidity dome they branch out then slowly die
If they're shooting before rooting, this could mean a couple of things. First, I'd maybe look at the "ripeness" of the stems you're using for cuttings. The softer part of the stem (closer to the growing tip) will be less firm, and the buds may shoot faster - not exactly what you want. Sticking from further back on the stem (firmer part of the stem) may pause on shoot development long enough to allow roots. Secondly, higher temps will lead to faster shooting, while lower temps may allow more time for root development. I guess absolute ideal would be low ambient/air temps with bottom heating to encourage roots - but if that's not in the cards, lower overall temps could hold of the premature topgrowth.
Good video and well explained about vertical growing.
Thank you Diane.
Thanks for your knowledge of the subject. This has been a great help.
My pleasure Fred
This has made me wonder this one thing. A 1 hectare greenhouse glassed on five sides, or a brick building the same size, but entirely covered with solar panels and lit with led. One costs nothing to light up, but it subject to weather, heat loss etc. The other is much more thermally protected, but has more maintenance and can the solar panels power the lights without resorting to other sources?
Thanks Brad. I think you've cut to the core of the argument: is there a way that an insulated building with energy inputs would keep up with the production of a glasshouse, and could the benefits of the controlled environment make up for all the extra energy used? So have a look at this presentation (the guy has impressive qualifications, BTW) : ua-cam.com/video/ISAKc9gpGjw/v-deo.html This is I'm sure where the idea of 1 acre of warehouse = 5.5 acres of solar panels comes from, but it's even worse than I thought... because as he explains, that's just the energy needed to *equal* the natural light input of the sun, with no provision for the idea that the closed vertical farm would be stacking multiple layers of plants. That would obviously multiply the energy needs accordingly. Solar panels on the roof could make up for some of some low % of the needs, but adding to the outer walls doesn't help a whole lot. You'd pick up a little bit on the north side (because you're in the southern hemisphere) but the east, west and south would almost certainly produce less energy than they're worth. So you're still approx 20% of the total light input needed for a single layer of crops.
Greenhouse growers cheat the seasons a bit with thermal blankets in the cooler parts of the year here, but eventually the heating costs outweigh the output in produce. Nevertheless, it looks like it's the clear winner on energy consumption and productivity, even if they have to shut down or slow down (depending on the climate) for the coldest season. Might be a different matter in extreme northern climates.
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm Thanks Jason, as usual, for such a considered response. All the best with the coming winter.
You wouldn’t know we grow any vegetables or fruits
in the Lower Mainland, let alone in abundance, by the ludicrous prices that we see in stores 😢😢
Great video. I think we need to do a combo thing, I like that building you showed in the beginning ❤❤❤
The government should be investing in our food start ups.
( there are some “very experienced” marijuana growers in BC to ask advice from 😂😂)
The prices really seem detached from reality, don't they? I see no problem with using balconies and rooftops for greenery, but the idea of building whole skyscrapers solely for food production doesn't make a lot of sense economically or for sustainability.
Greetings this was great I grow in the Caribbean learning daily on need to use vertical
Great info in this video. Definitely some benefits to indoor farming, especially in areas with short growing season and urban areas.
Thanks. You bet. I loved what Bob was doing with the forage crops - which makes total sense for animal feeding over winter.
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm yeah, as a snack. But for bulk feeding? I think Gabe Brown's methode is better.
Super interesting and enlightening!
Fascinating--thank you! 😊
My pleasure Terri!
Great video, very informative 👍
Thank you!
Interesting discussion, thank you.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching
None of the crops mentioned supply significant amounts of protein. Possible protein sources for vertical farms: worms, fish, small pigs, algae, mushrooms.
Nice - and some of those would be far less energy intensive for light demands.
I would be interested in the number of hours of sunshine in RedCliff Alberta, a town of many greenhouses, with the usual crops as well as small fir trees. I know that bees are used to fertilize plants. Big marvel industry is also in the area .
Hi Diann. Good question. As goes to daylength, it ranges up past 16 hours on the longest days of the year, and down to around 8 in the middle of winter. Of course, you're probably more interested in sunshine hours (as in, sunny days vs. cloud cover) and that ranges from 164 in December to 304 in August according to what I could find.
Excellent content!!!
Thank you so much!
Absolutely amazing.. 🎈🎈🌷🌷
Thanks!
instead of depending on your traditional source of electricity from the grid, and paying the government and hydro companies. Why not take geothermal power from beneath your property. i know the initial cost would be high, but as a resident of southern Ontario, I think it's an alternative to solar power and hydro.
I've been emersed in hydroponics and vertical for over 20 years. Some used to refer to it as C.E.A Close Environment Agriculture.
It will be the future. Fields will more or less used for commodity crops. Potatoes, cotton, peanuts. Corn, soybeans etc..
Thanks Bri. I'm excited for where the innovations can take us. As with most new technologies, there's a lit back-and-forth about how it should be implemented. It's worth noting (as I did in the video) that controlled environment agriculture is not exactly "new" insofar as the large greenhouse growers have been controlling supplemental light and heat, humidity, air-flow, CO2 concentration, water and fertilizer for many years now. As have the large closed facilities of cannabis growers. And so far, it looks like the greenhouse growers have found a good profitable balance to take advantage of the benefits. Meanwhile, the fully-closed "warehouse" or grow-op style cannabis facilities have found themselves struggling against more efficient outdoor and greenhouse growers. Maybe that will change over time, but I do worry about the energy demands of fully-artificial growing environments. I suspect the current energy grid couldn't handle a shift of even 5% of outdoor agriculture into closed urban factory farming, and I wouldn't want to bet food security on the whims of the energy or financial markets.
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm the vegans will hate me, but at least hydroponics should be combined with raising fish...
@Fraser Valley Rose Farm very well said Jason. I believe it much of it will come down to Regional average temperature and demand. Over 60% of much of our overall produce comes from Florida. Great work Jason. Many thanks.
Don’t forget that led has become a lot more energy efficient brighter and cheaper let alone water use aspect is way lower. I do agree on larger crops tomatoes etc are gonna be better in a greenhouse etc not using light but many countries are having really good luck all indoors.
Thanks. That efficiency improvement was already factored in in the 5:1 ratio I quoted - but I suppose everyone's waiting for more improvements. Where it's practical though, it's still far more competitive to grow using the light of the sun directly. That fact is driven home by the experience of the cannabis industry, which was well established in indoor operations, but is now in rapid transition to less resource-intensive greenhouse and outdoor production systems.
Have you checked out Larry Johnson's vertical setups? They aren't as tall as the ones you've shown, but still incredibly efficient and he grows an abundance of tomatoes on them. Kirsten Dirksen has an excellent video on his business.
Thanks. I'll check it out.
This has little to do with your subject, but you gave me an Idea with this video. As you know my yard borders the woods and so I have heavy animal grazing problems with my veg garden. So the idea is to mount rain gutters on my roof as a sort of raised bed garden. Then I only have to fight squirrels and chipmunks. Deer, rabbits, wood chucks, skunks and others couldn't get up there and It wood get sun nearly all day.
If you can work out the logistics of tending it, that sounds like a great way to claim unused gardening space!
Me, I would not put anything on the roof that needs tending, attracts rodents. However, putting rain gutters hung just above window levels by strong wire (not chain or rope) looped around the gutters by putting those larger pretty hanging basket brackets on the wall so that the gutters are not next to the wall would make them less easy for rodents to get at & the roof overhang would keep them from burning to some degree. You may still have to drape fine mesh like for window screens attached to the back of the gutters so that you can fold it off or over the plants easily...that also would prevent rodent browsing.
Looking slim, Jason.
i really like your common sense videos
Thanks Jim!
Much-need critique - VCs should be required to watch it.
My zone 7 🇺🇸 works my garden cleaning new 🌳 my flawers food 3 weeks
New Jersy full indoor farm, AeroFarm, decleared bankruptcy in Jun 2023.
Whether focus operation as high-tech firm or real farm is crucial term that determines profitable or not.
But if climate change keeps going worse, the situation may turn upsdie down.
That's really interesting - and your comment makes perfect sense. Treating it like a tech company may boost the valuations, but good farming isn't more complicated than *needed*
wow. GREAT info. And apart from all of that: I don't trust food, that is not grown in healthy soil. Which is a given in hydroponics, as they even claim. HOW can stuff, grown in a totally artificial (Clean!! She called it in one of those clips... Germophobe much???) enironment be healthy.
There is this FANTASTIC book "What your food ate" by David R. Montgomery and Anne Biklé. Read that.
Vertical farming to me is monoculture industrial ag made even worse than the original already is...
it should be called, what it is: factory farming.
An example for REAL vertical farming is agroforestry. Plants with different hights and light requirements grown together, like in a food forest system. Mark Shepard has numbers on that in his book "Restoration Agriculture: Real World Permaculture for Farmers".
Lol. Thanks Martina. Not just clean, but "you know, hundreds of times cleaner!" I do worry about the food security implications if you would centralize plant growing into these big corporate facilities worth hundreds of millions of dollars, and now you're just at the mercy of the financial markets (because of course any company so highly leveraged is working to manage the quarterly earnings) and also at the mercy of energy markets.
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm yeah well, people who think, that that will ever make them rich (the people running the buisness, not the financers...) should probably ask farmers that sunk millions of dollars into the newest and best technollogy how that is working for them 😂
On the other hand - I know of market gardeners who started out with about 10000 € (on family owned land) - earning that back and then some in the first season... And their produce ROCKS! and is getting better every year because they are making the soil better and better...
The garden of Babylon xD
Yep - ancient technology revisited!
automated vertical farms in anonymous warehouse
I've been watching for about a year, I think you need to get a lab coat, clipboard and some kind of space helmet with a mic.
Thanks Blaine. It sure would level up the "smart" factor.
Because they’re inside… fungus gnats aren’t real 🥴
Lol. You bet. Nor thrips, spider mites and aphids - which have proven pretty resourceful in finding their ways into even the tightest and highest tech of existing growing systems. Even assuming they can manage the near-impossible, and maintain extremely high biosecurity (layers of hepa filters, perfectly sealed buildings, laboratory-level procedures and containment like CDC labs) I wonder if the cost of these measures - in addition to the hundreds of millions of dollars in existing infrastructure would make financial sense compared to a common-sense implementation of existing integrated pest management.
How is it that weeds manage to just appear in the most pristine virgin soil?
Pests always find a way.🤙
@@FraserValleyRoseFarm the cdc analogy, frightening on many levels beyond the expense… so much more could be said… are you familiar with the Hopi Prophecy Rock? It’s very interesting to hear what the Hopi elders say about it. While I am Christian, I find their explanation of it to be of great truth.