LN society has the best outcome. lawfulness is a longer and better path to good. the balance of power makes meaningful peace possible. humans are basically neutral beings and it keeps us alive. james bond is chaotic most of the time (video listed him).
I'm playing a LN Cleric of Mecanus (as a deity AND a plane) right now in a PF setting with 3.5 rules. How she reacts to disaster is interesting. Recently the town was attacked by bandits, leaving homes in ruins. She offers to help rebuild the homes with Profession: Laborer. Her motive? The commoners need a place to live ASAP so they can get back to work and prevent a drop in the local economy. Lawful Neutral.
I believe I am Lawful Neutral. I'm not very popular with people at work because I have whistleblower tendencies and my reputation doesn't really mean anything to me as long as I can get the job done quickly and efficiently. If it were up to me, I would work alone and not have to explain everything to people who just seem to get in my way.
Your alignment videos are in my opinion the best on youtube. You did a very good job explaining this stuff all those years ago :) I hope you are doing well!
Thanks for that video. I'm playing a LN chevalier in Pathfinder and I was battling between my as a player and my character actions toward his alignment. Your hints will make my play easier!
Thanks! While I don't like D20 Modern, it had an interesting alignment system. You took a few values like "honor" or "cash!" or "family". So your alignment might be "Family, honor, duty" as these are what your character values.
Indeed. That's why I came for you to have some inspiration. Even with 27+ years in gaming, it's the first time that I really go for it in an alignment and it's tricky but fun in some ways. There's a lot of conflicts in the PC group because of that so lots of RP involved.
Indeed, Lawful is a dedication to something. Maybe external, maybe internal like the Monk's code. A Paladin for example will follow their code when in an Evil city, despite breaking the laws of that Evil city.
I would say so too. Lawful isn't necessarily one who's into the "laws". They can be though. A character might live in a land where they hate the laws of a tyrannical king. However they're part of an order of knights and follow those laws and take great pride in this order. These knights might go against the king on many occasions and still remain Lawful, despite resisting the king's laws.
There is also the personal code style of lawfulness. Take the lawful neutral monk for example, she is lawful for she follows her code, wether the code agrees with the laws of the land she is in or not. She could be in Thay or in Neverwinter, but if the laws of either place go against her code, she wil break said laws and uphold the code of her order instead. She still remains lawful, even though she broke the laws of the land, because her lawful alignment comes from her dedication to her code-
I do similar in Pathfinder, being that I typically run games in Taldor of Cheliax its relatively easy to throw in Roman Culture and Ideology being that Taldor is a direct (if more pathetic) epixy of Medieval Romans and the Chelish come off as a devil tainted post-constantine Roman Empire, it isn't too hard
I say anti-hero because they are so committed to their cause and beliefs that there is no exception. Think Rorschach from Watchmen and Ned Stark from A game of thrones.
1) Seems Lawful Good for sure. Honesty is valued, but not when it'd really hurt someone. LG for sure. 2) This one actually teeters between LG and LN. I say LG because they really seem to love this company and are dedicated to it. Whether the company feels the same way back... well who knows!
This is true. Lawful characters can be depended upon not to shake things up. They're dependable which is their advantage, but predictable, which is their flaw. You could probably predict a Dwarf character very easily.
To a lawful neitral person, only the rules matter. Nothing and noboy else realy does (to them). I personaly feel it is the most merciless alignment for they will carry out their orders (as long as they are in accordance with the laws of THEIR society), no matter what. It may break their hearts doing so, or it may break yours, but rules are rules. And they will follow them to the letter and make you follow them to the letter as well. I personaly feel a (fantasy version of) samurai is an example, if he / she has to kill according to his / her superior (or society), so be it. If he / she has to kill him / herself according to his / her superior (or society), so be it.
I wonder if a well organized thieves guild falls under the auspices of lawful neutral. They follow a code strictly with out bias. If you break the rules you are killed with out mercy or clemancy.
Onionkid99 I'm in a DnD session and I'm playing a lawful neutral paladin who worships Saint Cuthbert (DnD god edition 3.5). He is of noble ancestry and he lost a friend which is why he continues on with his duties and has not returned to his home just yet and joined his family's army against the forces of chaotic evil monsters. I'm playing him as a person who is kind, well spoken, and fair but firm in his beliefs that the law is paramount but is willing to give some leverage to those who commit lesser crimes. Due to the nature of the campaign he is tagging alongside two morally questionable people (And he knows it due to his divine sense) and one lawful good monk. He is going to aid a succubus in returning a soul back to life through some rather dark means but he refuses to carry it out himself and is only there to make sure everything goes according to plan and he is only doing this because the succubus claims the damned soul, if he is not returned, will cause the death of countless lives and that he himself, while not the best of people, has the knowledge to prevent this. By refusing to dark rituals but helping darker forces potentially save more lives am I playing out my character correctly as a lawful neutral worshiper of Saint Cuthbert.
I once read that a lawful neutal characters don't have to follow the laws of the land in order to be considered lawful neutral. They might also/instead follow the laws/traditions/rules of their religion, organization, or even the rules of a personal code that they live by. Personally, I would say this isn't a bad outlook for LN as long as the alternate code doesn't conflict with the laws of the land too much. What are your thoughts on this?
with your hypothetical on the thieves guild, order is created through the guild. when the town is rebuilt and the police reinstated, if i was to play a ln character, i'd have the creators of that initial order keep the ebb and flow of that order and have some kind of controlled counterbalance to assure the law is upheld but control over the population and any hobgobbo dissidence is dealt with
I liked the Formians, and their predecessors, the Modrons. It's interesting for character to observe these Lawful Incarnate beings and marvel at their efficiency but lack of individuality.
Deadlands, bringing law via the good ol' fashioned sixgun! LN is definitely a common alignment today. Although when I think about it, maybe it always was.
Lawful Neutral seems pretty interesting. It's basically someone who does not care for others, nor for themselves. They just love the law right? In my opinion, capitalism and communism seem to be the two most common lawful neutral societies
Javert from Les Mis causes some arguments around the Internet, some people argue that since he think the law is good and just, he must be Lawful Good, but I don't think that is so. He doesn't do what he does to help people, he does it because he is the law, "and the law is not mocked". "Stars" shows how he values Order, even if he is certain that Order and Good are the SAME thing. You spoke about having difficulty adapting, and when Javert is faced with an alignment shift what does he do, hm?
Sir Samuel Vimes from Discworld is usually touted as an example for Lawful Good, but LN, with an emphasis on Lawful, fits him better. Throughout the seriess, there are times when he goes against Vetinari's orders, but he always respects the law. In Jingo, there is a scene in which Vimes arrests an entire army for "Conspiracy to commit an affray". It never even occurs to him that this outside his jurisdiction, because Rust (the army's commander) broke the law, dammit!
Oh yes, Javert is LN personified. I wish I had seen Les Mis before making this video because he would have been in there as an example for sure. I love it when a character wrestles with an alignment shift. Javert's choice was perhaps extreme, but fitting for someone so unbending.
Some good characters can be unpleasant. There are plenty who are good but talk down to others. And yes, there could easily be a Neutral character like that. Trying to be good but, well, sometimes they'll steal something to survive.
An interesting question. I don't think alignment can describe any deity, really. Even the ones in D&D that say "Hey guys, I'm Chaotic Good!". Alignment isn't powerful enough of a tool to describe an immortal and omniscient character. It can barely contain a normal character!
I think the tops of these organizations are lawful (ie. the Fantasy Mafia and the Sabbat) while their pawns are chaotic and very, very expendable. I agree that often the fantasy villains are overdone and act stupidly. Destroy the world? Why? The world is where you keep all your stuff!
Its a decent setting, and allows for a nice mix of countries and cultures and funky themes to be played out, but it has its flaws (some of the writing is a bit uninspired and it seems that each regions culture/technology is near hermetically sealed from affecting the next. Which I have always viewed as more than a little odd. But Pathfinder is what I was taught in rather than D&D so its what I use.
Good point. They're kind of like the presidents of the U.S.A. All of them love us they really do, and they want to make some money to (it's not that selfish, that's really how you survive and provide for your family in this society), but the laws of the U.S.A come before all else.
Definitely changed my opinion on this comment! XD Not just because of the current president, but history. I'd say the US presidents vary A LOT. But the classic presentation of them, I believe, is Lawful Neutral.
Yep, gotta get the cogs of the world spinning again! The peasants probably see her as a hero, rebuilding their homes. Yet the true motivation is to get them back to toil. Still, those peasants should be happy. LN can be a heroic alignment too, it's the unbending jerks that tend to be the first LN examples though.
I just wanted to say thanks for something! Your videos helped me make this kind of hierarchy, or campaign story line of characters and places. I might make a video about it. Thanks! I also noticed a little less videos coming out on your channel, and I think you've come to a very common problem youtubers have. You're focusing on making very, very, quality videos in a very methodical way (lawful neutral), or making very wholesome videos that use all the jokes people like, in a very meticulous manner (lawful good), or making something overly unique, so it can't be compared to other videos (chaotic good). But why not try just playing by ear? Say you wanna make a video about... Pigs. Rather than planning it out, choosing your time limit, and writing a script, just get a good camera, tape yourself, and start talking about pigs. Or you could ask for video requests. I'd certainly like to see videos that focus on the "big" alignment chart. (It adds social, moral, rebel, and immoral) You could also make some videos about character ideas, or about classes. You've never made videos about classes. I'd also like to see videos about races or classes you've made up. Keep up the good work!
I was going for alliteration with "benevolence and brutality". Brutality really was the wrong word. Probably "harsh" or "stern" is better. One can be stern, yet good. No way could torture be justified as good, always an evil (and brutal) action there.
Therein lies my issue with the Lawful alignments. They so easily justify the use of brutality in the name of 'good' or 'balance'. There is no justification of brutality. If you are in the process of justifying brutality, you are doing evil.
I'd support the term 'stern;'. But even 'harsh' is unhealthy in my view. It has the stench of the Strict Father model of raising children. One that I do not endorse and in fact think is the reason that the Western world is so messed-up. I am a proponent of the Nurturing Family model of up-bringing. One og the reasons I consider myself NG. High discipline and high tolerance. LN seems to be high discipline and low tolerance. Which is not healthy.
I love Lawful Evil. One of my favorite alignments.
LN society has the best outcome. lawfulness is a longer and better path to good. the balance of power makes meaningful peace possible. humans are basically neutral beings and it keeps us alive. james bond is chaotic most of the time (video listed him).
I'm playing a LN Cleric of Mecanus (as a deity AND a plane) right now in a PF setting with 3.5 rules. How she reacts to disaster is interesting. Recently the town was attacked by bandits, leaving homes in ruins. She offers to help rebuild the homes with Profession: Laborer. Her motive? The commoners need a place to live ASAP so they can get back to work and prevent a drop in the local economy. Lawful Neutral.
Lawful neutral can be summed up as "The Law is the law, right or wrong".
I think Japan is an example of a successful Lawful Neutral Society
i like this alignment because it all about being honest and being well manered.
I believe I am Lawful Neutral. I'm not very popular with people at work because I have whistleblower tendencies and my reputation doesn't really mean anything to me as long as I can get the job done quickly and efficiently. If it were up to me, I would work alone and not have to explain everything to people who just seem to get in my way.
Your alignment videos are in my opinion the best on youtube. You did a very good job explaining this stuff all those years ago :) I hope you are doing well!
Thanks! This comment made my day, I'm well and I hope you are too!
Thanks for that video. I'm playing a LN chevalier in Pathfinder and I was battling between my as a player and my character actions toward his alignment. Your hints will make my play easier!
LG and LN have more crossover than most alignments.
Thanks! While I don't like D20 Modern, it had an interesting alignment system. You took a few values like "honor" or "cash!" or "family". So your alignment might be "Family, honor, duty" as these are what your character values.
Indeed. That's why I came for you to have some inspiration. Even with 27+ years in gaming, it's the first time that I really go for it in an alignment and it's tricky but fun in some ways. There's a lot of conflicts in the PC group because of that so lots of RP involved.
Love your insight into alignments often over looked by many gm's great stuff.
Indeed, Lawful is a dedication to something. Maybe external, maybe internal like the Monk's code.
A Paladin for example will follow their code when in an Evil city, despite breaking the laws of that Evil city.
I would say so too. Lawful isn't necessarily one who's into the "laws". They can be though.
A character might live in a land where they hate the laws of a tyrannical king. However they're part of an order of knights and follow those laws and take great pride in this order. These knights might go against the king on many occasions and still remain Lawful, despite resisting the king's laws.
There is also the personal code style of lawfulness. Take the lawful neutral monk for example, she is lawful for she follows her code, wether the code agrees with the laws of the land she is in or not. She could be in Thay or in Neverwinter, but if the laws of either place go against her code, she wil break said laws and uphold the code of her order instead. She still remains lawful, even though she broke the laws of the land, because her lawful alignment comes from her dedication to her code-
I do similar in Pathfinder, being that I typically run games in Taldor of Cheliax its relatively easy to throw in Roman Culture and Ideology being that Taldor is a direct (if more pathetic) epixy of Medieval Romans and the Chelish come off as a devil tainted post-constantine Roman Empire, it isn't too hard
I say anti-hero because they are so committed to their cause and beliefs that there is no exception. Think Rorschach from Watchmen and Ned Stark from A game of thrones.
1) Seems Lawful Good for sure. Honesty is valued, but not when it'd really hurt someone. LG for sure.
2) This one actually teeters between LG and LN. I say LG because they really seem to love this company and are dedicated to it. Whether the company feels the same way back... well who knows!
This is true. Lawful characters can be depended upon not to shake things up. They're dependable which is their advantage, but predictable, which is their flaw.
You could probably predict a Dwarf character very easily.
To a lawful neitral person, only the rules matter. Nothing and noboy else realy does (to them).
I personaly feel it is the most merciless alignment for they will carry out their orders (as long as they are in accordance with the laws of THEIR society), no matter what. It may break their hearts doing so, or it may break yours, but rules are rules.
And they will follow them to the letter and make you follow them to the letter as well.
I personaly feel a (fantasy version of) samurai is an example, if he / she has to kill according to his / her superior (or society), so be it.
If he / she has to kill him / herself according to his / her superior (or society), so be it.
So traditional Chinese legalism would fall under this category?
I wonder if a well organized thieves guild falls under the auspices of lawful neutral. They follow a code strictly with out bias. If you break the rules you are killed with out mercy or clemancy.
Onionkid99 I'm in a DnD session and I'm playing a lawful neutral paladin who worships Saint Cuthbert (DnD god edition 3.5). He is of noble ancestry and he lost a friend which is why he continues on with his duties and has not returned to his home just yet and joined his family's army against the forces of chaotic evil monsters. I'm playing him as a person who is kind, well spoken, and fair but firm in his beliefs that the law is paramount but is willing to give some leverage to those who commit lesser crimes.
Due to the nature of the campaign he is tagging alongside two morally questionable people (And he knows it due to his divine sense) and one lawful good monk. He is going to aid a succubus in returning a soul back to life through some rather dark means but he refuses to carry it out himself and is only there to make sure everything goes according to plan and he is only doing this because the succubus claims the damned soul, if he is not returned, will cause the death of countless lives and that he himself, while not the best of people, has the knowledge to prevent this. By refusing to dark rituals but helping darker forces potentially save more lives am I playing out my character correctly as a lawful neutral worshiper of Saint Cuthbert.
Lawful Evil provides no end to interesting intrigues. Also, they dress the best.
Thanks! It's great to hear that from an RPG Community luminary!
So it is the fairest of the alignments?
does a protagonist of that alignment can be considred a hero or an anti-hero?
I once read that a lawful neutal characters don't have to follow the laws of the land in order to be considered lawful neutral. They might also/instead follow the laws/traditions/rules of their religion, organization, or even the rules of a personal code that they live by. Personally, I would say this isn't a bad outlook for LN as long as the alternate code doesn't conflict with the laws of the land too much. What are your thoughts on this?
with your hypothetical on the thieves guild, order is created through the guild. when the town is rebuilt and the police reinstated, if i was to play a ln character, i'd have the creators of that initial order keep the ebb and flow of that order and have some kind of controlled counterbalance to assure the law is upheld but control over the population and any hobgobbo dissidence is dealt with
I liked the Formians, and their predecessors, the Modrons.
It's interesting for character to observe these Lawful Incarnate beings and marvel at their efficiency but lack of individuality.
They can care about themselves and others, but it is law and balance and order that comes first.
Its selfless, in a way.
Sounds very cool! I don't know too much about Pathfinder's setting but that sounds like some good stuff.
Cool! Glad I could help. LN can be a tricky alignment to play anyway.
Deadlands, bringing law via the good ol' fashioned sixgun!
LN is definitely a common alignment today. Although when I think about it, maybe it always was.
Lawful Neutral seems pretty interesting. It's basically someone who does not care for others, nor for themselves. They just love the law right? In my opinion, capitalism and communism seem to be the two most common lawful neutral societies
Javert from Les Mis causes some arguments around the Internet, some people argue that since he think the law is good and just, he must be Lawful Good, but I don't think that is so. He doesn't do what he does to help people, he does it because he is the law, "and the law is not mocked".
"Stars" shows how he values Order, even if he is certain that Order and Good are the SAME thing. You spoke about having difficulty adapting, and when Javert is faced with an alignment shift what does he do, hm?
I think many are. They probably try to be lawful good, but some lawful evil ones are in there too.
I did the online what alignment test and got Lawful Neutral.
Narc :V
Absolutely. When I have a human empire in a D&D game, I give them a heavy Roman influence.
Sir Samuel Vimes from Discworld is usually touted as an example for Lawful Good, but LN, with an emphasis on Lawful, fits him better. Throughout the seriess, there are times when he goes against Vetinari's orders, but he always respects the law. In Jingo, there is a scene in which Vimes arrests an entire army for "Conspiracy to commit an affray". It never even occurs to him that this outside his jurisdiction, because Rust (the army's commander) broke the law, dammit!
I love these video's. Thanks for the very detailed input.
Oh yes, Javert is LN personified. I wish I had seen Les Mis before making this video because he would have been in there as an example for sure.
I love it when a character wrestles with an alignment shift. Javert's choice was perhaps extreme, but fitting for someone so unbending.
It is indeed the gentleman's alignment.
Are Presidents lawful neutral?
when I align my cart my horse becomes a giraffe Haha 😂 the master was surely afraid of losing 20 points
Heh, yep, I add some visual jokes in there too.
Also I think you're the first to notice! Successful Perception roll!
Some good characters can be unpleasant. There are plenty who are good but talk down to others.
And yes, there could easily be a Neutral character like that. Trying to be good but, well, sometimes they'll steal something to survive.
Indeed, it's order that is paramount to LN.
As a lawful neutral, if a fantasy mafia comes after me, I would have to pack up and move out of town.. I hear the coast looks good this time of year..
It may just be me, but I always seem to default to Lawful Neutral. Maybe because I love punching things so much.
It's the material component for a halfling's grave!
They can go either way. I think most of the time though, it's going to be hero. They'll be trying to bring order so things run well.
The fantasy mafia leaves pixie heads in people's beds! (it takes a lot of heads).
An interesting question. I don't think alignment can describe any deity, really. Even the ones in D&D that say "Hey guys, I'm Chaotic Good!". Alignment isn't powerful enough of a tool to describe an immortal and omniscient character. It can barely contain a normal character!
I think the tops of these organizations are lawful (ie. the Fantasy Mafia and the Sabbat) while their pawns are chaotic and very, very expendable.
I agree that often the fantasy villains are overdone and act stupidly. Destroy the world? Why? The world is where you keep all your stuff!
Am I the only one who hears his voice and thinks... "Yeah... I'm going to need you to come in on Saturday..."
Yeah, that happens sometimes...
So if the Christian God was in the D&D world, would He be considered Lawful Neutral?
Its a decent setting, and allows for a nice mix of countries and cultures and funky themes to be played out, but it has its flaws (some of the writing is a bit uninspired and it seems that each regions culture/technology is near hermetically sealed from affecting the next. Which I have always viewed as more than a little odd. But Pathfinder is what I was taught in rather than D&D so its what I use.
3:19
I just noticed what you do with your hand there. Flippin the Shocker, I see.
Paladins are about as loyal as it gets. Even more so for Dwarf Paladins! Talk about heavy (and expensive) armor!
This revelation is... shocking!
I love these videos!
Good point. They're kind of like the presidents of the U.S.A. All of them love us they really do, and they want to make some money to (it's not that selfish, that's really how you survive and provide for your family in this society), but the laws of the U.S.A come before all else.
Definitely changed my opinion on this comment! XD Not just because of the current president, but history. I'd say the US presidents vary A LOT. But the classic presentation of them, I believe, is Lawful Neutral.
owlbear poop sounds like a material component...
Yep, gotta get the cogs of the world spinning again!
The peasants probably see her as a hero, rebuilding their homes. Yet the true motivation is to get them back to toil. Still, those peasants should be happy.
LN can be a heroic alignment too, it's the unbending jerks that tend to be the first LN examples though.
Got to love Lawful Neutral. :)
Sometimes you gotta punch a civilization
STANNIS! STANNIS! STANNIS!
The Res Publica Roma... LN at its finest
I just wanted to say thanks for something! Your videos helped me make this kind of hierarchy, or campaign story line of characters and places. I might make a video about it. Thanks! I also noticed a little less videos coming out on your channel, and I think you've come to a very common problem youtubers have. You're focusing on making very, very, quality videos in a very methodical way (lawful neutral), or making very wholesome videos that use all the jokes people like, in a very meticulous manner (lawful good), or making something overly unique, so it can't be compared to other videos (chaotic good). But why not try just playing by ear? Say you wanna make a video about... Pigs. Rather than planning it out, choosing your time limit, and writing a script, just get a good camera, tape yourself, and start talking about pigs. Or you could ask for video requests. I'd certainly like to see videos that focus on the "big" alignment chart. (It adds social, moral, rebel, and immoral) You could also make some videos about character ideas, or about classes. You've never made videos about classes. I'd also like to see videos about races or classes you've made up. Keep up the good work!
Thanks!
I was going for alliteration with "benevolence and brutality". Brutality really was the wrong word. Probably "harsh" or "stern" is better. One can be stern, yet good.
No way could torture be justified as good, always an evil (and brutal) action there.
shockah!! 3:21
My girlfriend likes the velvet glove...
wait...
Hm, not sure. Sorry.
-and not to national/city laws.
Therein lies my issue with the Lawful alignments. They so easily justify the use of brutality in the name of 'good' or 'balance'. There is no justification of brutality. If you are in the process of justifying brutality, you are doing evil.
why are you whispering? LOL
I'd support the term 'stern;'. But even 'harsh' is unhealthy in my view. It has the stench of the Strict Father model of raising children. One that I do not endorse and in fact think is the reason that the Western world is so messed-up. I am a proponent of the Nurturing Family model of up-bringing. One og the reasons I consider myself NG. High discipline and high tolerance. LN seems to be high discipline and low tolerance. Which is not healthy.
suffice to say what a boring alignment to play imo.
Thanks!