Are you in S. California? I'd be love to see an analysis of savings for other areas. Solar power is a no-braining for the southwest but is it a practical solution for other parts of the country.
+Stephen [Ricky] very good question! There are sites that will tell you your number of solar hours you can expect for your zip. I'll make a future video outlining it. But yes it's very regional too. Stay tuned we have a follow up video oct 15th you'll enjoy!
Before anyone gets any solar panels. Make sure your roof is tip top condition. You don’t want to have to pay to take the panels off the roof to replace the roof and then have them put back up. Check for everything.
@Bill thats the way i would go, and it makes for easier cleaning, but council rules wont allow it, they say it would create an eyesore so its roofs only unless you are out in the country with no neighbours
If you have a roof that is 5-10 years old and will need to be replaced in 5-10 years, there are companies that will (as long as they still exist) allow for a 1-time removal and reinstall of the solar panels for a roof replacement. These companies either factor that cost into every system they install even though everyone is not going to use it, or they also try to sell you a new roof at the time along with they system (even have services to upgrade your A/C system to more efficient system so you don't need so many panels) which means they won't have to come back at all except for any warranty repair work.
If you have the property, I would install them on the ground. Roof is a bad idea unless it’s the only option. We need to develop good solar roofing systems that are actually the roof.
Roof warranty voided once solar panels on. Think a small movable shed for solar panels that hold the batteries inside it which you can move w you is best idea 💡 I've seen so far 👀
I have 17 panels of solar installed on my house about 3 yrs ago. It cost me $22G but with federal & state rebates it only cost me about $12G. I interviewed 3 companies before I chose the one with the best deal. I’m very happy with my solar system. I also had a plug put in that if I had a black out during the day I can still use the panels for electric. Haven’t use it yet.
The two big factors that make solar cost effective are: 1) The local weather, i.e. how many overcast/sunny days in your area. 2) South-facing roof area. If you have sufficient south facing roof area and a lot of sunny days, solar may be right for you. Also, this is something almost no one considers; The shadow of a solar panel on your roof does 2 things, it not only keeps the sun from heating up the attic and thereby saving air-conditioning costs, but it also triples the life of the roof shingle.
I am on a rural energy co-op and in the fall when we turn our air off, the heat pump never is turned back on until the following summer. Our electric bill in the cold weather months runs $68.00 to $70.00 per month. I have a wood stove from Germany that heats the whole house. No large investment and if there is no power, we can still cook on the stove. I came from an old school, and I never went to sleep and let anyone take advantage of me.
damn right just had an appointment yesterday to see what it was about would be 70.00 more a month than my 80 to 100 dollar a month power bill. I am also old school and do not waste electricity. wood stove it is lolololol SCAM
Bill goes up 8% each year and the money goes to unreliable energy sources. After the 20% grid penetration mark renewable energy gets exponentially more expensive.
Very interesting video. I installed 34 panels on my roof in July 2011 so we've gone along a rather similar path. I've generated 70.8 MWh over the lifetime (also in California) so 7x the panels and 7x the power. The only difference is that I installed them myself so I saved quite a bit. We only spent $25K for the panels (230W) and inverters (also Enphase) Here's the difference: we took out a $25K home equity loan which has payments of $200/month. We now generate 100% of our electrical power so we have no electric bill (they actually write us a $500 check every year) Our old electric bill used to be $200/month so the same amount is now paying off the loan rather than paying the utility - and no annual 8% increase! Break even is a little further out (10 years) but the lifetime of the panels and inverters is 25 years so it's all gravy at that point. Even if you don't generate 100% of your power, the first solar cells on your roof will replace the highest tier consumption. If you can get your bill down to just tier 1 charges at $0.19/KWh, you're going great. Our peak usage was into tier 4 and billed at $0.40/KWh - twice the price! The first half of our panels would have reduced our bill by 2/3rds. TL;DR - if you've got the roof space, solar makes sense. It's maintenance free, carbon free and domestically produced energy - what's not to like?
+RedwoodGeorge [Ricky] that's so awesome, thanks for sharing! I'd love to get to a system like yours. So my wife and I are budgeting for a few years to buy them hopefully in a few years time! So you have the Enphase envoy monitoring software right? Feel like sharing a screen shot? Hit us up on twitter! @twobitdavinci So cool, what part of CA? Judging by the username I'm guessing Northern California ?
Your argument is flawed and not applicable to most people. If you got the solar panels as gift, you'd see return on your investment immediately. That's just not realistic. Labor to install adds years to when you'll see your money back, and even more if you have to do roof repair.
you're pretty bad at math if you think 10 years is a good time period to break even. that 25k would be worth 65k if invested in a good mutual fund at 10 percent return.
captainkrunch: So... If you invest the savings... From this date: Saving $200 a month (increasing by 6% a year = increased cost of electricity) for 10 years at 10% will leave you with over $51k at the end of 2027. That changes the equation a bit... It's only $14k less than you would have had if you invested directly. If the saving increases by 8% a year like in this video then you can go up to $55k. I mean that's how I live my life. Anything I don't spend I invest. As the cost of these systems decrease the break even time on ROI will only decrease along with it - Eventually outperforming any investment you can directly make over the same time frame. We work our entire lives until retirement to live out our twilight years in prosperity (if we are wise). Covering the electric bill is a good idea by any standard. When it's done it's done. You can weather tough times better, and it's an asset you own. Not subject to any external influence other than an "Act of God", for which insurance is usually quite reasonable. These people who bit the bullet already. You bet their lives are better than that of their peers. And what actually happened? They did not get all technical about it. They probably just ended up delaying the purchase of a new car by a year or two. As consumer decisions go... No harm no foul.
Inflation rates are closer to 5% a year. You ever notice the rate of increase on groceries, and other products ? They go up at least 10% a year if not more !
@@babet4567 Progress? I'll remember that the next time I see slamming in my bill that they keep calling, "Oh (snicker, snicker), that was an hones mistake, sir." I always ask how many people out here are innocently paying for "honest mistakes" that these companies know damn good and well they're perpetrating. Dare we make "mistakes" in our taxes or in our payments to utilities, and Hell hath no fury.... Progress, indeed....!
He's in bloody California paying $0.39/Kwh I pay < $0.065 Kwh the pay off is completely different. He also needs to factor in how much he paid (and continues to pay) in taxes to fund the solar subsidy. My electricity rates have actually gone down in in the last 2.5 years. He's right that it's getting cheaper but the payoff is way longer than 3 years. Maintaining power lines and operating the power grid is incredibly complicated and godawful expensive for innumerable reasons. California also has inflated wages which contribute mightily to the cost of operating and maintaining the grid. Moreover, Two Bit may not realize it but he IS part of the power grid in California - the electricity he generates for all intents and purposes goes into the grid first, and then they let him have it back if they are feeling generous. Other than portable, solar/wind installations are required by law to be connected to the grid the last time I checked. WRT wages, I recently read that the San Valleo (probably not right) police chief RETIRED on $19,000.00 per Month ($208K/year) - If you compare that to other similarly sized municipalities you'll find it's significantly higher than most other places in the country outside of the mega metropolitan areas. Other highly skilled workers (such as linemen, grid controllers, electrical engineers) will have wages scaled similarly and there are thousands of those people plus their support and administrative staff. That all contributes to cost. Also insurance, is a multi million dollar line item on the budget. But greed has nothing to do with it. I won;t even go into the billions of dollars involved in securing and retrofitting security on to a grid system that was never engineered to be connected to a hostile internet because the NERC regulatory burden alone consumes departments of people and is utterly mind boggling. Similarly, energy makes up less than 0.2% of my budget, so despite seeing an actual decrease, an 8% increase would bump that all the way up to 0.3%. which for all intents and purposes is nothing. It's would be significant if it was housing because that's typically 25-30% of a household budget in more normal areas (California, New York, Philadelphia, et al do not have "normal" housing costs)
9 years into solar ownership on my home. The system paid for itself in less than five years, including the federal tax credit. I converted my entire house to all electric and have two electric vehicles. Zero gasoline!! "no brainer" I simply love driving on sunshine.
Here we are in 2018. My electric bill is $300 during the summer. I would love to get solar panels installed on my house but our neighborhood HOA's bylaws state " No energy conservation equipment (solar / wind) shall be installed on any lot"! Total BS!
[Ricky] Yeah I avoided any HOA's like the plague. I didn't buy a house to be told what to do! But I'm sorry to hear that... I totally feel for you. Hopefully all this sort of stuff changes soon!
HOAs are nothing but corrupt organizations giving them legal right to rip you off any way they can. Ask the realtor first thing because they will fail to mention it until closing because they know people HATE them. My brother lives in GA inside an HOA and they are crooks. He can't even clean his gutters as all/any work performed on the property MUST be done by contractors on their exclusive list (Friends and family of the board). They charge twice as much as they should because, well, they can. The list is super long of restrictions and they will even tell you what kind of vehicle to drive as my brother's doesn't permit pick up trucks unless they belong to contractors working on your property. They employ a guy whose sole job is to do nothing but drive around looking for violations to fine for. Bottom line is stay away from them!
My neighbor paid way more than $10,000 to get solar panels and other equipment needed, even with a $7500 tax credit. After a few years, he needed to move and was moving into a condo. Anyway when he sold the house, he didn't get that money back that he invested in solar as the price the house sold for wasn't enough to justify his investment, so in the end it cost him thousands. Not many Americans live in the same house for as many years as they use to, so that is something to consider when investing in solar.
This is a good point. In the video he references the next 20-30 years being "pure profit", but how many people will live in the same house for 30+ years?
@@hunter371 Exactly! I understand the benefit that solar can have, but from a realistic point it's a small % of people that end up living in their house that long (let alone 10 years)
Hello sir, just dropping in real quick to say I love your unbiased channel. The wildfire episode came up on my recommended and I loved it! I am now subscribed and binge watching. Thank you for the educational and honest vids, keep up the great work!!
Couple of things to add... need to account for panel power degradation over time, storm damage and the fact that many insurance companies won't cover the cost of removal and reinstallation if the roof must be repaired or replaced. They can also void certain coverages if they determine the presence of and installation caused or was responsible for a leak that lead to internal home damage. Things to consider also. I feel that in some situations, the overall implementation is a worthwhile investment, but as you mentioned, a long term strategy needs to be thoroughly developed.
[RIcky] Great point, my panels are warrantied for 80% output after 30 years, and after 6 years im well on track. Also if you live somewhere with bad weather and hail, definitely considering calling your home insurance company and including them. Here in California, that's not a concern. thanks for your comments!
That output graph is cool because it's actually telling you how much cloud cover is over your house at any given point in the past. Seems like if they networked that data between all their customers, they could have a pretty accurate way to predict the weather.
I know! I think enphase uses that data to draw their prediction lines based on where you live. Which is so cool you can get a rough ball park before you pay any money
There is already a system for that, called satellite photography. Perhaps you've seen the weather forecast with animated clouds? All that data is stored almost indefintitely.
@ Eric. Yes lightning is attracted to lead - that's why churches get stuck so often. For "blocking frequencies", metal is metal - a lead hat sounds like a pain the neck.
Live in California. I installed a 7.8kW PV system in 2015 which covered all my usage (leaky old house with HVAC use in summer). I was spending ~$3000/yr. My cost for system after rebate was about $15000. ROI ~5 yrs. I figured even during those five years I was earning $3000/$15000= 20% on my investment (it was earning virtually nothing in the bank). So it was a no brainer. Last year I paid $135 for the year. It was basically the minimum grid tied fee ~$11/month. Tip: 1. own don't lease. 2. Buy panels and equipment from a reputable company and reputable manufacturer because a warranty means nothing if they are no longer around.
hope all is well Kaserina! i know it’s a bit down the way but how have the panels held up?? roughly 7 years of having the panels! i’m genuinely curious
If your local corporation commission is allowing 8% per annum you are being fleeced. The occasion for a rate increase of this proportion should remain exceedingly rare. That is unacceptable.
@Bill Really do you think that several men walking about on your roof fitting these panels would not mention before they started that you had many broken tiles and you should get the roof fixed before they started work! Of course they would, if only to cover themselves. On the other hand if you start work on a good roof and break lots of tiles who's to know. cos no one goes up there do they? Wake up you tosser!
My solar company said beforehand that they will break roof tiles and they will replace them. Solar panels have to be inspected and pass code after installation. That means roof is inspected also. Company guarantees a 3ft radius around each screw for something like 3yrs. Could be wrong but it's a while. Solarmax here in socal
Have you ever walked around on one of those roofs? if the tiles are 20 or 30 years old they will break and not much you can do about it. especially if they were not installed right to begin with. Also finding new tiles that match is at times impossible. Therefore the owner should be pre warned. I install furnace and A/C units. I've had to deal with these at times and it suks!
@@rheadog9546 Yes I have, my point was that this work almost always will damage your roof, no matter how good/careful the installer is. That's it really.
In 2010 I had a $350/month (average) electric utility in San Diego County in CA. Our utility, SDG&E, had one of the highest rates in the country. I installed 40-245W panels and two-5KW inverters on a ground mount system. Total cost of material -$41,877.58. Total cost after tax credit and rebates - $24,087.31. Total labor charges - $0.00 I did it myself. $24,087.31 / $350.00/month = 68 months. It actually paid off in just under 5-1/2 years, If you take into consideration the huge jump in energy rates that SDG&E has instituted, the payoff was actually quicker. At today's rates ($0.53/KWh) my average monthly bill would be ~$795.00 for the same consumption. BTW - we run a business out of our house which is why we have the high consumption rate. So, I took the hit and invested in my future. I am now retired with no utility bill and receive about $150/year from the utility for my exported power. It is surely something to think about. Interesting how as the rebates were done away with that the cost of panels/inverters dropped dramatically. Also, the reason for two inverters: I check each day to see the output of my array. If it is off, I check the totals for both inverters. If they are the same, I know it was a cloudy day. If they are different, I know I have an issue with the panels or inverters to troubleshoot. I also ran a water line to my array so that I can regularly clean my panels. Much easier on the ground than on a roof if you have the space. Good luck to all of you thinking about this. It is a great way to control your utility expenses in the long term, even if the up front cost is a smack.
I live in AZ and have looked into solar energy and have been back and forth on the topic over and over and over and over and over, lol. My biggest issue is that we have tremendous sunlight year round and we are in a prime location for solar. The 2 different sales reps that came to our house seemed to say the same thing. They informed us that we have a very large roof that faces in the perfect direction and that we would be perfect candidates for a solar energized home. They actually said that we have more roof than would be used. That all sounded great and I was seeing dollar signs of money being saved in my head. My big concern was the fact that we would be taking a 20 - 25-year term on the panels and if we were to sell our home the new owners (buyers) would have to agree to take on the solar deal and cost until the end of the term of the solar agreement. Another issue I had was that as technology advanced and bigger and better things were happening with solar, none of it was included with your existing deal. I felt like you were stuck with the panels and whatever else you had unless you wanted to PAY again to change or upgrade. IDK if I made the right decision or not. Instead of seeing charts and rates and anything else, I would love to just see an average homeowner show his electric bill before solar and after solar over the course of a two year period or so. Whenever numbers and charts and all that are being thrown around, you never really know what the heck is/was going on. I am all for solar but of course, the electric company wants to keep making its billions and they aren't going to give you the greatest deal for you and your family, they are going to do what works best for them. True solar can put the electric company out of business and they will never allow that to happen. I want to buy a small house that is totally reliant on real solar energy and the storage of energy that's created by your own solar panels and batteries, etc. I want to do this but not in the middle of Alaska or in some situation like that. I want to do this in an area that lots and lots of people live and in a home that is not one of these modern super small homes that have become so popular currently. Let's see how it works in a real home with a family and kids and a dog and all that goes along with that, lol. Can we all save lots of money and actually be off grid without too many issues or safety concerns? Living in a place that has the most sunny days a year in the entire country should be the perfect place to try this Hopefully there is a home that has done this and we can see their results. Don't trust the electric companies and other big companies. They want to stay in business, which is understandable but they have gotten so greedy that they will try to never truly allow you to be off grid if they can help it. There have been cases in which the utility companies have basically had people jailed because they weren't using their electric company, etc.. Yes, this happened in America and in more than one location. Good luck to all of us.
[CHRIS] Thanks for sharing. On the battery topic, we are closely watching the Tesla Powerwalls as they start to finally roll out. I think having batteries is the only way to get off the grid, but it currently comes at a fairly high cost; let's hope they come down.
You could just put solar panels along the fence and just use them for running the air conditioner there is a guy in Gilbert AZ selling panels for about 27 cents a watt on ebay.
I assume the company you tried was like one I looked at. if you pay upfront. ( cash or some kind of normal loan from your bank ) then the interest is wayyy less and you can include it in the house cost or take it with you. The ROI for cash was 10-12 years for me and I wouldn't get tax credits due to my low income, but was close to 30 years if I financed it with the Solar place. You would be better off getting a second mortgage ( or low interest personal loan if your credit is good enough ) to pay for the cost up front and then just deduct that monthly payment from the savings until it is paid off. On a 3-4% loan it should not add much but the 22-28% the Solar companies want is what pushes it out to 30 years. I would not worry about complete off grid for now, battery tech. is not quite good enough or cheap enough yet, getting 100% power during the day without batteries would be huge by itself and you would be feeding some back into the grid ( for credit ) when you generate more than you use. When the battery tech gets cheap/good enough then you can add it.
That roof was whooped!!! That company broke a bunch of tiles and left them like that? That would be grounds for dismissal at my company. Also that stucco patch around the MSP is horrible! Not even paint matched. Bottom line is if your going to get solar 1. Make sure your roof is going to last atleast another 15 years. 2 go with a reputable company and pay a third party roof inspection company to inspect the roof after install. If it fails make the company who did the install go back and make all corrections and pay for the inspection.
I appreciate the time that you spent going back and explaining your evaluation of the last five years. I installed panels two years ago and generate about 3.4 kW using 12 panels. My system is not grid tied, it is standalone and powers approximately 60% of my house. That does not include heat and air conditioning. however, I do have other energy saving methods. My system is also designed to protect our property in case of power outages because I live in the country and interruptions lasting minutes to days is normal. Also, the cost of energy here while it does increase approximately 8% each year, is much cheaper than yours in California. We pay about $.10 less per hour than you do.
I've lived off grid for 25 years. When I started it cost 5 dollars a watt and now it's 50 cents a watt. I found that 2000 watts of solar is perfect for me and with one forklift battery that 1500 amp hour I never run out of power. It only cost me 10 grand for the whole set up.
I agree with what you've done. I would rather just generate my own power and not try to sell back to the grid. I could care less about all that. The one question I have is: can I get off the grid or disconnect from the power company altogether? I live in Pima County, Arizona.
Ok, very simply, our electric bill averaged approximately $150/month. I contacted several solar companies and went with one who just installs the panels, permitting included, with a two-way meter so power can go back on the grid when not in use. The solar company estimated our usage and put enough panels on the roof to cover it. It has been a year now and we have not had an electric bill. We have a credit of about $300. We can keep the credit on our bill or take the money, however, we were told to keep it as some years are better than others and we may need it. I can not say enough good things about solar energy. Just get it while the credits are still in effect. It is well worth it. It will pay for itself in 6 to 7 years if you own the panels yourself. Do not go with a company like Solar City. It is, simply, a lease to own company and it will take 30 years to pay it back. Buy your panels and you won't regret it. If anyone would like to know what company we used leave a comment below. I just didn't want this to sound like a commercial for them but we are very happy with the outcome.
I just discovered you guys yesterday and am now watching everything you have on home solar. Your presentation is professional, honest, data-driven, and extremely helpful for those of us that lack your experience. I suspect the negative "thumbs" are from folks with an agenda as anyone that has used UA-cam to obtain actionable information regarding the truth(s) about solar would only be amazed you deliver so much in such a short period of time. Thank You! (I live in North San Diego and am considering Solar, but I am stumped on how I can legally do it myself (I have the skillset).
It is my personal experience that the panels do NOT produce enough energy to pay for themselves in a timely manner. Mine cost 19,500, minus a $10,000 rebate from the state, leaving me spending $9,500 out of pocket. So far I may have saved $4,000 in five years. So it will take a total of about 12 years to pay for itself. That does NOT include future cost that I will have, and the increasing lack of efficiency they will undoubtedly have. Not to mention that the power companies require you to pay a minimum monthly fee to be tied in ! and I just hope I don't get hail, or hurricane damage. That does not include the fact that they need to be cleaned at least once a year. You're a lot better off spending the same amount of money on better insulation, and other varying energy saving means that don't need maintenance or replacing. DON'T FALL FOR THE HYPE !
EXACTLY! It amazes me how many ppl can’t do basic math. Anyone with a little knowledge and a calculator can figure out that it’s a ripoff. Plus, if you have a nice house, these big ugly panels destroy the look of your home.
It is a FABULOUS video!!!!!! I am still in my research stage (the very end of it) and will be implementing (solar and vertical wind) what I have learned from people like yourself. I closely pay attention to peoples "Ooops" and problems; and try to find ways that I will not repeat their issues. Please keep up the good work. You are straight forward and a good teacher. I shall watch more and learn more. GOD Bless.
+David Fr [Ricky] wow thank you sir! Very kind words indeed. I hope you just remember you can expand on your system later. It doesn't have to be all or nothing ;) one thing I didn't mention is run large gage wire like 10gage so you can continue to chain micro inverters to it without needing another wire to the circuit box. If you ever have questions please don't be shy! I'm a mechanical engineer and just love this stuff. Give us some good ideas and we can make a follow up video! Have a great weekend!
Thank you for your words of wisdom. I have chosen a system to cover all contingencies and then added 13% more to the number of panels. I also will be using 2+ vertical wind turbines. Thus my power needs for the house is well covered. Another system (solar and wind)will be installed for the farm yard and barn areas. And another separate system (solar and wind) dedicated to the walk-in freezer (cargo container/trailer) and root cellar (cargo container/trailer) I pray that I get it all setup correctly. I have already touched bases with EPA, USDA, DOE, and several other for full reimbursement of all of my systems. I will keep you informed on how it all works. I will be totally off grid and self sufficient!!! I look forward to it.
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So "the government" is going to pay for your system? No, your fellow tax payers are paying of it. You sir, are a leach.
[Ricky] Hey Don, I removed my comment, you're totally right. I let a troll get to me, but I'll be sure not to let that happen again. You're a class act, thanks again, and I hope you'll still considering sticking around and subscribing. I'll hope to hear from you again!
In this case government is paying for good stuff as over long term they will be saving money on other things like health care as the air you are breathing will be less polluted.
This was great, thanks, been searching for "how much do you really save with solar panels?" for a while now, and I think this has helped. Ever heard of - Aanarter Exceptional Ascendancy - (should be on google have a look ) ? It is a good exclusive guide for discovering how to learning how to get free power minus the hard work. Ive heard some pretty good things about it and my brother in law got great results with it.
Great Video clip! Forgive me for butting in, I would love your thoughts. Have you thought about - Schallingora Computer Reconstruction Scheme (probably on Google)? It is a good one of a kind guide for saving money on your electric bill using this simple technology without the hard work. Ive heard some super things about it and my GF after many years got amazing success with it.
I do not know where you live, but my current cost per kilowatt is 9.1 cents. I am getting ready to renew my two year contract and I can get 7.8 cents per kilowatt. Based on your numbers it would take about 25 years to recover the cost of a solar system.
[CHRIS] Solar may not make sense for you. We did a follow up video on exactly that topic. We are in San Diego, where rates are as high as $0.42 per kWh.
It only makes sense to actually compare variable cost of electricity on your bill, not the average cost per kWh, against the savings from solar. In Europe fixed cost are in many cases above 50% - for transmission, taxes, etc.
+David Ball thanks David! We're a new channel and we hope you subscribe. We're still finding what our viewers are looking for, so if you have ideas on what you'd like us to cover, let us know! Have a great day!
+David Ball you're a man after my own heart. So we're starting a Sunday morning chat series. Next week, Apple, then Home Automation, then we're covering Tesla and electric cars. So stay tuned for that. Also I was thinking about making a video on Why Solar Panels are so political, which I think you'll enjoy. Thanks for being a part of our community!
10k/0.78k is 0.78% roi per year. if you bought a house in japan or australia you can get 12% but hoses cost a lot more. if you invested in stocks you might get a few percent but with houses and stocks you might lose 50% if there's a crash like 2007. if you bought solar in 2007 not only would it be paid off by now you would have that 0.78% roi (really panels are 1/4 of that price nowadays so more like 3% roi) locked in plus you can only invest alimited ammount in solar unless you open a solar farm ao its makes sense to invest as much as you can spare unless you have a guarenteed better idea. plus stocks dont run you toaster
As a finance professor, I can only say that your analysis is wretched. Discovering whether your investment is a good one as compared to other ways of using your money requires both more data and a different mode of analysis. The bottom line question is whether your investment shows a positive net present value at a relevant rate of discount. You haven’t gotten anywhere near answering that question.
thanks for the vid. one thing i've been reading is that the typical panel has a very long life- in excess of 25 years, but the inverters are expected to last about 10 years before replacement. but not to worry, a average size single inverter is around $1200 ish... the micro inverters are much less.
Depends on where you live. for example, if you live in india or egypt you'll get much more value out of it than is you would f.e. live in skandinavia or canada.
Hiroyugane that's my question, in Alberta Canada how much energy could a system like this produce? Potentially 1/3 - 1/2 of the year they're not able to function efficiently due to snow cover, and shorter days.
You should talk to someone local, but it's also important to note that solar powers produce the most power at 77 degrees Fahrenheit. So Egypt and India will have lower output because of the heat stress on the systems. They will also wear out faster because the hot sun can create quite a bit of damage over time. Another thing to note is that at the equator, you get 12 hours of daylight everyday, all year long. But in Alberta Canada, you have really long days in the summer (16+hours?) when the weather is nice and you have shorter days in the winter when you tend to have less sun anyways. I'm not from Alberta, but if you ask someone local who is into this stuff, they would probably have much more detail.
Solar is useless in Alberta. They will produce very little and we have dirt cheap natural gas anyway you won't beat the price of gas even heavily subsidized.
Even if you live in Arab. You won't get any return from your own solar system. It will cost you more than getting electricity from a direct line. Do your math first.
You have to keep the data consistent and pure. If the cost of the system is $10k than it's $10k throughout the calculation. Because taxpayer's are unwittingly subsidizing a portion of your costs doesn't mean the cost is less... it just means you're not the only person paying for the cost. Also, who's to say the the government will use other people's money to subsidize the cost of solar panels in the future? Environmental considerations should also include the pollution produced for the manufacturing of the panels.
[Ricky] So a subsidy isn't me taking tax payers money. It's me keeping a small portion of the tax money I am going to give to the government. The solar subsidy I received is a very small portion of the federal taxes I've paid in the same period. To the pollution point: Most studies I've seen point to solar panels requiring 3 years of production to offset their manufacturing and installation costs. After that its pure green energy. So I'm already in the environmental green, and have been for 4 years. By the way those studies were largely done in countries will less solar hours than we have here in San Diego, so those figures are probably conservative.
Well any tax not given to the goverment is being one way or another subsidized by everyone be it from increased taxes elsewhere or some programs receiving less funding. The thing here is that the goverment came to the conclusion that it was worth it to part with that tax to help promote solar energy, suposing that the goverment is correct in that conclusion it means a net gain for the country.
Two Bit da Vinci His point about taxes is that the government had to pay the 3600$ which means you are still paying 10 000$. You cannot calculate the ROI off of 6400$ because that is not the price the panels actually cost. You are still paying the tax credit with your taxes you pay to the government. So you are paying 10000 not 6400. If the government payed for 100% of the solar panels you wouldn't say you are getting them for free... Because obviously either your taxes will rise or cuts will be made in other government programs. For the pollution point, he is not talking about manufacturing or installation costs. He is referring to the fact that making solar panels requires chemicals and the production itself causes pollution. Has nothing to do with cost but actual pollution caused by the manufacturing. Google it and you will discover that making solar panels is not at all 100% environmentally friendly. However that pollution is probably still lower than burning fossil fuels, but is certainly not anywhere near zero pollution. So it's wrong to think solar does little to no damage to the environment. Also solar panels cause deaths. They cause a lot less than coal, but solar causes more deaths than hydroelectricity and nuclear. So if you change to solar and where you live electricity is generated from hydroelectric or nuclear power than you are increasing the risk to workers. www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2012/06/10/energys-deathprint-a-price-always-paid/#7c0327dc709b
It's obvious that a new tech needs to be subsidized and if it's deemed a "Common good" then there' s a reason to subsidize it. With current prices, there's probably no more need to subsidize it anymore.
Yes, definitely worth it. Built a 20kW AC system in 2013; hit ROI this coming year. Make about $1500 a year from utility now. NEM rate is key. Fed 30% ITC good til 2021 is also important. Go for it. Make sure you get an Enphase IQ microinverter-based solution with some nice Solaria 355W XT ACM's or some LG NeON-2 335W ACe modules.
Sim Salabim so true video 10k tax payers 3.6k of that. The energy is not efficient or reliable. I’ve worked in the energy industry over 10 ten years. The real solution to the co2 crazies saying the world is going to end would be nuclear with nat gas as the bridge fuel. I never hear anything about nuclear from these twats therefore know they are not knowledgeable on the subject. There is also great new technology on nuclear like the smrs.
I have a remote cabin with just about every amenity you’d have in a house and by going solar I have saved having to haul hundreds of gallons of fuel. I have a 4KW 48v inverter and 15KW of battery bank. I used to run a Honda 2000eui 2-3 hours a night and now the sun charges the batteries. I love the quiet and only hear an occasional plane go over.
At $.39 a KWH it would make sense to install them. Where I live that cost is much lower $.11 per KWH. If I installed the same size system as you did, because of the cost per KWH it would take me about 3.5 times longer to break even, and that is close to the life cycle expected out of the solar panels. For an off grid application I have been looking at where running power lines would be prohibitive in cost, doing a system like yours would make good sense for me.
Why do so many people believe solar panels is THE solution to saving the environment? A big problem of solar energy is what you do when you need to remove/get rid of it. How do you recycle a highly technical and complex item consisting of so many different compounds, such as Cadmium telluride or Copper indium selenide? You should always be more aware of both sides to an argument, and in fact anything you encounter.
I was considering solar panels but my electricity bill just isn't high enough to recoup the costs (yet) over the lifetime of the panels. Now, what I did to improve my situation (resulting in a loss of 15% of power usage) was to install thermal films on my sun facing windows and sliding glass doors (this is a much cheaper alternative to try).
madmotorcyclist that just means you don’t build as big of a system. If it means you only need x number of panels for your needs then so be it. Your comment makes no logical sense.
If you dont use up all of the electricity the solar panels generated then it will sell the left over electricity to you electricity company. You will end up with credit in your electricity bill
@@brandoncaldwell95 You are SOOOO wrong, they DO NOT use satellite, they use low baud rate serial communication over the very wires that bring the power to you, and they use no power that you pay for. SMH, jeeze stop spreading your stupid crap.
integr8er66 it’s easier to blame others for your problems than accept responsibility. This videos entire comment section is full of people spreading misinformation and blaming the electric company for their problems
Solar panels put out their maximum output the day you install them and then begin degrading immediately and after a few years (varies from 10 to 25 years depending on manufacturer ) they have to be replaced and you must pay out all over again.
@@TwoBitDaVinci They are installing a solar farm near me and the owner told me that all the panels will have to be replaced in 25 years. Solar is NEVER a good investment and can only survive if they spend our tax dollars to subsidize it.
Thanks for the informative video. In South Africa ROI is not the main reason why we opt for home solar installations. It's more about independance from our sole electricity company and municipality. We pay the municipality they pay the electricity company but sometimes they dont pay due to money laundering and power gets cut to the whole town and then every one suffer. Sucks bigtime, but not if you have solar! We have sunshine right throughout the year and only ocationally stormey days.
Hi. Here in Aust we are limited to 5kw roof systems. (INTO the grid) by the gov't. Separate to (away from Grid). you can install as much as you want to use OFF the grid, IE pool systems etc. Here in Central Q'Land. probably equal to your Florida climate wise. a 5kw system will run a normal 2 story 2 or 3 person home. with 8.1kw air cond. 2 fridges/2 tv.s 2 computers etc. I also have a 30 tube. Evacuuated tubes (Roof or frame) Hot water system. only need to turn on heater around 20 days a yr. We installed around 12 yrs ago and costing here for 4.2kw with HWS. Was just on $16k.AUD. We get 44c a kw from gov't cash back from state gov't. Paid it off in around 8 yrs. as well as an av, of actual cash return per yr of. nowadays $600/650 a yr. Was over a grand at beginning but power co's keep increasing rates. If you DON'T / Can't get cash back. Just figure out what power you use. during daylight hrs. Do ALL your dishwashing. clothes washing,tumbling. Get home temp.s down to comfort levels. during daylight hrs. and use as little as possible, power. in cloudy weather and nighttime. THAT is the power you pay for. Think about it seriously. Set up correctly to suit your usage. Solar WILL save you a lot over the yrs. Buy Good quality panels and inverter. Check installer forums. they'll tell what are good and not good. I have some panels over 40 yrs and others. larger, over 25 yrs. still working good.
Wow this is so eye opening. I always reckoned that solar power could save me money over the long term, but seeing the data laid out like this just solidifies that notion. Especially with the fact that the cost of solar power equipment is always declining. Thank you so much for sharing your experience and personal financial information. This was really informative and has me now seriously considering using solar power for my future home. You've inspired me, sir, and I'm sure you've turned a few other heads as well! Great work!! 👍 - Greetings from Toronto, Canada!
Friends of mine bought $27,000 of solar panels. The first year January to December they had the panels they got a bill in January of the next year from the utility company. $32.28 for the whole year. Their utility bill before solar panels averaged around $350.00 a month. They live in a city where it is very hot year around. 100 degrees in the summer. 70 degrees in the winter. Solar would not work for me. Too many tall trees around my home. Blocks the sunlight. Solar works best when the sun beats down on them.
Awesome. For them... Who the fuck has $27,000 spare change to spend on solar panels? $27k buys houses in my area lol. This whole green world is a straight scam imo. Your average person couldn't imagine EVER affording this bullshit.
Got mine and I do not regret it one bit! Oh thank you for the information I have 20 on my roof. Oh ya in the summer the panel's keep the rooms cooler underneath them.
[Ricky] Yes very true! rather than heat your roof, and your attic and your home, requiring more AC, solar converts that to electricity. So its a double win, also as a result, your roof tiles will last longer, with less intense heat and heat cycles.
Great video, would love to learn the effect cleaning the panels have. How much does output drop due to a branch blocking the sun on one of the panels. What are some different ways to wire the panels so that a branch blocking one of the panels doesn't affect the output of the others?
Great questions! So I have noticed about a 45 improvement when I clean the panels. With the monitoring software, it's easy enough to compare before cleaning, then after you get down, and how it compares after. Now the drop off from shading is a very interesting topic, and maybe we're make another video that gets more in depth on the topic. But I can tell you that if you just place your hand in front of the panels, even though its such a small amount of shading, you can sometimes reduce power output by about 30-50%. Shading is a solar panels worst nightmare. With my monitoring software I realized I had a tree that was causing some shading in the early morning, and I now keep that tree trimmed. These effects are more noticeable in winter, when the sun doesn't rise quite as high overhead as it does in summer. Hope that helps!
First of all, great video! Very informative and clear! Rohan Roy: If all of your panels are connected as one string, you are relying on the bypass diodes (MPPT of the inverter, also[?]) of the panels to cope with the lack of sunlight hitting the cells, when experiencing shading from trees, snow cover, bird poop, etc., which will drop the system to match the lowest output power (the shaded module). Optimizers are a good workaround, which basically make each module their "own string" and will not affect the output of the other modules, once passing the inverter. This is especially handy for tree shade, snow cover, roofs with different angles, etc.
So basically your 1.2kw system ran you $10K back in 2011. Fast forward to 2019 with my recently installed 11.3kw system that ran me $45K. Pretty much what this means is prices have gone down by 50% since your system was installed. Crazy how much prices have dropped over the years. Hopefully they'll continue to drop even further so more and more people can stop lining the greedy utility power company's wallets.
You need to learn the difference between kw which is the rate at which you are generating power and kw-H which is energy. Almost all your quotes are kw-H. Your rates are 2-3 X as high as our rates in Arizona.
Klaa2, how do you know he knows the difference? Many of his listeners don't, and it would be better to not confuse or mislead them. It would also be better if you didn't call people "cunt" just because you have a minor disagreement with them. If you did that IRL, you'd get your clock cleaned pretty quick. Why do you think it's ok if you're on the internet?
Fred, that's my pet peeve too. People don't understand the difference between 'energy' and 'power'. TV & print newscasters make that error all the time. Power is the rate of supplying energy. He's made 10 MWh of electrical energy, 'power plant levels'. If he's comparing his installation to a 10 Mw power plant, that power plant put out as much electrical energy in ONE HOUR as he's made in seven or however many years.
@Klaa2 I don't think he really does because he mentions that 10.7 mw-h is in power plant territory. It's not. A 1000 Mw power plant would product that much energy in less than a minute.
As someone who works in the industry, NEM is going to be changed from 2.0 to 3.0 in the coming years, which will decrease cost of panels because utilities will be offering about 75% value for the excess hours you generate, rather than the 1:1 ratio we have now. This is only decreasing cost in relation to your electricity provider, which will generally be a bit more expensive than it would’ve decreased with naturally. For anyone seriously interested in solar, at least in the state of California, I’d recommend going solar while the federal tax incentive is still available(thru 2021) & NEM 2.0 is as well.
[Ricky] I don't have any batteries in my system, I'm fully grid tied. I think the battery technology and costs will make it right for everyone in the coming years.But I didn't think they were ready yet. My Enphase Micro-inverters are warrantied for 25 years, and they've worked perfectly now for 6 years.
Two Bit da Vinci what is your roofing material? Can you remove them yourself if you need a new roof? I've heard the added labor and flashing and whatnot for the roof mounts can be crushing.
I dunno... i paid $215 for 250w solar panels (each), have them on my roof and I'm doing pretty well I think... Wanted to add that I also have a 1600w wind turbine I added, as we have pretty windy days/nights and that cost me about $700. After install (I did myself), I have just under $6k invested. I have a battery bank that runs on a separate circuit in my home, and I see an average of $100-$120ish savings monthly from my typical bill with a family of 5 (3 young children). Savings is great, but I have the system to cover a power outage/possible shtf scenario.
1:18 - it’s important to discuss any potential additions to your PV capacity w the installer first. DC-to-AC inverters are sold in terms of their ability to handle specific capacities, meaning that any system you plan on upgrading will need a bigger inverter.
What this tells me is no matter what I’ll be paying the electrical company something. Their rate of inflation is crazy and it almost feels wrong that they can do that. Crazy.
No.... it DOES mean they are GREEDY. Their costs are not going up 8% per year, they aren't investing it in making your bill less, and technology is becoming cheaper not more expensive... Solar is a great investment!
we have 10x 450w panels, generating more than 500 GBP a year of juice in money terms. System cost less than 5k GBP, so that's a ten percent return per year on investment,where else can you get safe 10 percent return on a 5k spend? UK solar panels are self cleaning, apparently.
So basically you spent sixty five hundred dollars to install the solar panels and will break even using your math at $780 yearly x 9 years = $7020. That's when you will start recouping your investment.
@@Bryan-Hensley LOL AND SMH, you are a first class idiot sir. Watts and Watt-hours are NOT the same thing, that is like saying MPH and miles are the same thing, so if you are going 100 Mph then that is the same as going 100 miles.
This was a great video, Very Informative and awesome that you show us the Data and billing system to show how it's not as simple as saving X amount per KWH but also that keeping consumption in a lower Tier saves the higher charge rate. Even though this video is older it is still very relevant. I think another exciting thing that has more recently come to my attention is while using solar and battery storage to store the energy, if you can work with that stored power and use it during PEAK hours, when companies up the rates Each Day for certain hours. This strategy can save us money in a similar way you are saving money, staying out of the higher Tier. Kind of Cool I think.
There is a difference between power and energy. A kilowatt is not the same as a kilowatt-hour. The mixing up of these terms and units in the video drives me crazy.
[CHRIS] You think you are alone? So many people, got driven so crazy, it made Ricky crazy, and even did a follow up video on it: ua-cam.com/video/yaeWYgb7S2o/v-deo.html
Your electric company is hosing you. That’s why your ROI is so good. Down here in South Texas my power comes from the coal fired plants, and I’m only paying $.16 a kilowatt hour
Yah our grid is much cleaner and more expensive. Living in California is an expensive proposition. Everything here costs more than Texas unfortunately. But it’s not all bad... most Californian homeowners have hundreds of thousands in equity, for rising home prices which isn’t common in Texas.
I have a lot of coworkers who are moving from Silicon Valley to Austin and I’ve considered it too ;) we could basically buy a house cash if we sold our home here in San Diego. But the weather... lol
The video production was fine but the author confused power (kW) with energy (kWh). That didn't affect his answers, however. You are producing and/or buying energy, not power.Our electricity supplier seriously penalizes users of solar energy, in particular in the way they process the energy you may send back to them if you have a net surplus at any one time. Also, if you simply declare that you want to use THEIR solar power (an option for customers who want to "go green") the energy rates are simply increased and you have the right to say that you are using only solar power. The fact is that EVERYONE on the grid is using some part of the solar power available on the grid. You simply pay more for the ability to say you are using solar/renewable energy.
In 2013 we went to 22 solar panels. Incredible savings on electricity from day one. Living in sunny CA, solar has the best R.O.I. for money that can be had. Combine that with two electric cars, and you're livin' the dream...
It's not an injustice you are paid at the same rate of any energy producer. You are not the retailer, you are the supplier. They aren't ripping you off, they are paying you the same as the coal or fracking company.
Thank you! Although you should add " financial cost" (is the correct traslation?), the value of money in hand is higher than the same amount after 5 years. Consider the "interest compound" (again, hope it is a good traslation. The profit you have if you put the cash in a bank "fixed term deposit") But the important: the data is valuable and you are saving the planet.
@Joaquin: The word you're looking for is "opportunity cost", money you can't use elsewhere. @6:34 - The TRUE COST of the unit is still $10,000, YOUR cost was only $6,400. thanks to subsidies. (You're welcome.) At 10% interest (if you could have found it) that's ~$64/month, the same as your monthly savings, so kinda a wash. But you've got taxes, investment risk, inflation on one hand and depreciation (it wears out), unit failures, and Acts of God on the other. You're also using the utility as a giant battery which is easy but I find distasteful -- run STANDALONE or DON'T. On, and @Mark the planet is doing just fine, it's the _biosphere_ that we care about is a bit changed. "What doesn't kill me makes me stronger" -- that's pretty much evolution as long as you're still within reproduction age.
Actually, unless things have changed in the last few years, it takes about as much dirty energy to make a solar cell as the cell will produce in energy over its lifetime. So, unless the cell was made with clean energy, it doesn't do anything to save the planet.
+seroxide [Ricky] I have a lot of friends in Texas and trust me the prices in CA are 100% outrageous. Texas rates for energy and living expenses in general are just so enticing!
+seroxide [CHRIS] In SoCal with $0.21 and $0.42 rates for me, moving Texas sure sounds tempting. But then I think about how many months or hours we run AC or Heat, and I’m thinking it’s pretty minimal compared to other states. Not saying I like the high rates though!!!
It's probably worth a lot just to live in sunny California. I use to travel to San Diego frequently on business. I really liked it there. Warm days, cool nights. We paid higher rates until electricity was deregulated a few years ago.
+seroxide [Ricky] deregulated! Interesting, so what happened with the utilities were deregulated? Yeah as expensive and annoying as it can be at times, we do really love San Diego. Thanks again! I'd love to pick your brain about how deregulation effected power costs in Texas. Maybe a future video? Thanks!!
In a nut shell we were paying .15/KWH about 15 years ago just before deregulation. We're currently on a 2 year contract for .082. My older daughter is on a 3 month contract for .065. You can literally change providers every month. You are stuck with the carrier (owner of transmission lines and infrastructure) in your area. Prices I showed include transmission costs. Our home is total electric and we average 2MW per month. We keep thermostat at 72 in summer and wife does laundry every. If you don't shop around you can easily pay .17/KWH with the old legacy provider.
Please, when you're talking do not speak of kilowatts as a measure of energy produced. Watts measure power, energy is usually measured in kilowatts hour and it is very very different. Thanks! Please don't hate physics, it is an important thing when talking about engineering or energy!
@@doug112244 No. He's indicating that he's not a complete dolt and knows exactly what the man is implying when he says kilowatts instead of Kilowatts per hour... This Andrea dork took a little class on electrical engineering and thinks she's a know it all expert when she probably can't screw in a light bulb... If I said a cop caught me going 20 over the limit, do I really need to go into detail and tell you a cop caught me going 20 MILES over the speed limit? Use your head.
@@Jason-wc3fh I am using my head. You are just defending that you are dumber than a box of rocks and proud of that fact. Units are critical parts of measurements. I was willing to believe that he was simply misspeaking until he compared 10.7 Mwh to a power plant then it was obvious that he really doesn't understand the difference between energy and power. Units are so important that there is a whole field called dimensional analysis that uses the fact that units need to be consistent to gain an understanding of what is going on in a particular system.
@2:21 10.5MW would correspond to a small/renewable energy power plant for instantaneous power. You generated 10.5MW *hours* - it's taken you years to generate what a power plant can produce in any given moment. It's still cool to see such a large amount of power being generated at home!
Solar shouldnt just be driven by cost issues only but by self sufficiency. Im from the caribbean where electricity is expensive and hurricanes wreak havok on the electrical grid. Having a solar system combined with rain water harvesting allows me a peace mind. Eventually ill get an electric car and be free from gas stations...self sustainable tech is about decentrilizatiom
[Ricky] So true, that's a great point, we actually have a follow up video we're releasing Oct 10, so subscribe and stay tuned! But absolutely, you make a great point, the benefits are multi pronged.
[CHRIS] I didn't realize a Prius costs double or more, but a friend of mine leases a pure electric Chevy Bolt for under $200 per month, which is low compared to other leases I have, like a Mazda 3. I think pure electrics make sense if you can charge for free or cheap at work, gas prices are high in your area, and if you can have a charger installed at home and are offered a discounted electricity rate; most of which are somewhat common here in California.
Ahhh.. you're including installation, etc. Sorry. Then yes. I have no clue what installation costs- I wouldn't think of paying someone to do such basic labor. But then again, I'd do my own root canals if my hands weren't so damn big. Great video BTW - you really break it down. My return on investment is hampered by the fact that the 18K I've got tied up in my off grid system would otherwise be sitting in corporate bonds throwing off about $900 a year--- shoving my pay back somewhere out beyond my expected life time. But I'm having a blast.
I heard the batteries and inverter are warrantied for 5-10 years depending on the vendor. So after 10 years you are likely looking at replacement of those components. However, the panels themselves seem to last longer although they lose about 20% output over the 25 year warranty.
Excellent video. I installed 100 in January of 2015, using the same panels and inverters as in this video. After rebates, my total cost was $60K. I am in Austin, Texas where we get a lot of sun and use up a lot of power cooling the home. I went from average summer bills of $450 to nothing, even with the fuzzy math used by Austin Energy when they calculate my bill. Though I produce far more than I use, they charge me an average of 14 cents per kWH for what I need from the grid, while paying me 11 cents for what extra I produce. I advise people considering solar panels to first check with their power company as to how they will calculate your bill. The fair way is that your meter goes backwards when you are producing more, giving you credit, and turns back to normal when you need power from the grid.
Yeah, because there are no infrastructure costs involved with delivering electricity to/from your home... The 11 cents per kwh they are paying you is already a subsidized rate, that is artificially set orders of magnitude higher than the wholesale rate for electricity. It is even higher than the RETAIL rate many people in Texas pay. Here in the DFW area, my average cost per kwh is less than what Austin Energy is buying your excess for, and that is factoring in the extra $10.99 "minimum usage fee" I have to pay all but 1 or 2 months for using less than 1,000 kwh a month.
I live in Amarillo, we frequently get high winds (70mph) & golf-ball to base-ball sized hail. I've considered solar for a while since this Texas sun is so merciless, but every time i look at it i cringe with the thought of having to fix them every spring when the storms kick up. If they are about as durable as a car windshield then it just wouldn't be a viable option in my area. Are there options for some sort of protection for the panels?
I would take out a big loan, cover my house with solar panel. Sell it back to these electricity firms and make them bankrupt Oh well who Im I kidding, I dont even own a house
You may not own a house, but look at the bright side, you're still being taxed to subsidize homeowners putting solar on theirs! Isn't government saving the environment amazingly awesome?
The electric company here has worked quickly to be protected by law under this. They are a monopoly and regulated by the government. Therefore they employ lobbyists that provide incentives and kickbacks to the politicians. So the laws are tailored so they can stick it to us now. A few years back they screwed up and improperly stored a bunch of waste which was a big no-no according to the nuclear regulatory omission. Never fear they legislated theirselfs a waiver. Then the cost of fuel was at an all time low and they had a bill passed keeping the state corporation commission from looking at their profits for 5 years so they wouldnt be force under code to lower rates.
Power you *take* from the company costs alot more than power you *provide* to the company. In my case it's in the region of 10c per kwatt down, and 3c per kwatt up.. But, ideally you don't want to be a net producer. Ideally you want to size your install so it covers your power needs. Mine was sized for 'slightly less than I actually use', although in the last 8 years advances in LED bulbs, lower power televisions etc etc has about covered the reduction in output that panels suffer over the long term. I continue to have bills in the region of $3-30 a month. Whereas before panels it was in the region of $250-300 a month. On a very rare few occasions (away from home for 2 weeks during summer holidays for instance) I have had a net positive, but they don't send me a cheque.. they simply reduce next month's bill by the amount over-produced - and that's okay with me.
An important factor in the savings of solar panels is whether your power company buys your surplus energy and at what price. This also determines whether it makes sense to also buy a battery to store your surplus energy. The price of these batteries also drops every year.
Thanks for this. I'm actually getting into being a sales rep for a solar panel company and I wanted to gather information on the product before I start trying to sell it. I'd rather not lie to people when I'm delivering a pitch. yeah I know kind of an odd quality for a sales guy to have lol.
bad news this does not really work that good in the north wth clouds and snow but the bad news is you pay big for panels they are not as effective as the years go by. the worse thing is if the grid goes down you still have no power they do not allow the panels to work without the grid
[CHRIS] Good points, and it is definitely worth watching our follow up video on how to decide is Solar is right for you and your area: ua-cam.com/video/mBsG4laZyEA/v-deo.html
Not nowadays. Buy good quality panels. they much MORE efficient that what they were 20/40 yrs ago. with much higher capacity too. Speak to a Solar tech/installer. they'll install a sw/diode, Whatever. in line. It isolates your system from the grid and you can run the home. Fully or partially From your solar system. according to solar capacity. Legally.. Here in Aust anyway. Also some inverters have a capacity to additionally do battery charging at same time. We topped up my battery bank over 5 yrs to a point it runs my pool pumps, swim jets etc, separate to house supply. combination of 1.2 kw from roof panels and others on pool deck roof. 4.2 kw panel system runs this home as long as sun shining. 8.2 kw Aircond unit. Fridges power etc etc. and still adds some to grid. AS long as sun shining. 30 tube Evac tube water heating system, covers our use of hot. for, on average. 340 days per yr.
...today's panels more efficient and less cost, but youre speaking of an on-grid system. if your panels are tied into the grid, then they won't produce power for your home.
dave, my panels will work without the grid and I have power especially when the grid goes down. Heck, they aren't even hooked up to the grid. The panels are 100 watt panels and cost $100 and I have two 6volt golf cart batteries. I have plans to double my system in size as I need to go off grid before the nuts take over the USA. I don't know why anyone would lease solar panels or hire someone to put them in. Mine were plug and pay and simple to put up.
I don't know where you live on the planet. But here in Australia. you can have an electronic sw installed in power box (Sparkies charge around $100/120 installed). that trips your panels output into house circuit when Grid trips itself off. While isolating home 100% from output to grid. so it's safe for all sparky's working on grid problems. NO Output into grid beyond that isolator. then visa-versa.
Why do so many people believe solar panels is THE solution to saving the environment? A big problem of solar energy is what you do when you need to remove/get rid of it. How do you recycle a highly technical and complex item consisting of so many different compounds, such as Cadmium telluride or Copper indium selenide? You should always be more aware of both sides to an argument, and in fact anything you encounter.
5 years is most VRLA solutions although you can make them last a lot longer if keep them in good condition. I have some VRLA's that are 11 years with 97% efficiency. If you move to wetcell, you can last 20+ years.
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Two Bit da Vinci TECH - I did something different with solar.
Watch on utube - Light Rider operation Paul Revere.
Almost instant return on investment.
Are you in S. California? I'd be love to see an analysis of savings for other areas. Solar power is a no-braining for the southwest but is it a practical solution for other parts of the country.
+Stephen [Ricky] very good question! There are sites that will tell you your number of solar hours you can expect for your zip. I'll make a future video outlining it. But yes it's very regional too. Stay tuned we have a follow up video oct 15th you'll enjoy!
TBsVT - ok, ya got me to sub with that one...lol...
+salmonline [Ricky] haha we won't let you down!
Before anyone gets any solar panels. Make sure your roof is tip top condition. You don’t want to have to pay to take the panels off the roof to replace the roof and then have them put back up. Check for everything.
@Bill thats the way i would go, and it makes for easier cleaning, but council rules wont allow it, they say it would create an eyesore so its roofs only unless you are out in the country with no neighbours
If you have a roof that is 5-10 years old and will need to be replaced in 5-10 years, there are companies that will (as long as they still exist) allow for a 1-time removal and reinstall of the solar panels for a roof replacement. These companies either factor that cost into every system they install even though everyone is not going to use it, or they also try to sell you a new roof at the time along with they system (even have services to upgrade your A/C system to more efficient system so you don't need so many panels) which means they won't have to come back at all except for any warranty repair work.
If you have the property, I would install them on the ground. Roof is a bad idea unless it’s the only option. We need to develop good solar roofing systems that are actually the roof.
the insurance paid for my neighbors due to hail damage , but he said it was 6k to remove and re add
Roof warranty voided once solar panels on. Think a small movable shed for solar panels that hold the batteries inside it which you can move w you is best idea 💡 I've seen so far 👀
I have 17 panels of solar installed on my house about 3 yrs ago. It cost me $22G but with federal & state rebates it only cost me about $12G. I interviewed 3 companies before I chose the one with the best deal. I’m very happy with my solar system. I also had a plug put in that if I had a black out during the day I can still use the panels for electric. Haven’t use it yet.
The two big factors that make solar cost effective are: 1) The local weather, i.e. how many overcast/sunny days in your area. 2) South-facing roof area.
If you have sufficient south facing roof area and a lot of sunny days, solar may be right for you. Also, this is something almost no one considers; The shadow of a solar panel on your roof does 2 things, it not only keeps the sun from heating up the attic and thereby saving air-conditioning costs, but it also triples the life of the roof shingle.
I am on a rural energy co-op and in the fall when we turn our air off, the heat pump never is turned back on until the following summer. Our electric bill in the cold weather months runs $68.00 to $70.00 per month. I have a wood stove from Germany that heats the whole house. No large investment and if there is no power, we can still cook on the stove. I came from an old school, and I never went to sleep and let anyone take advantage of me.
damn right just had an appointment yesterday to see what it was about would be 70.00 more a month than my 80 to 100 dollar a month power bill. I am also old school and do not waste electricity. wood stove it is lolololol SCAM
Power bill goes up 8% a year but wages don't.
Bill goes up 8% each year and the money goes to unreliable energy sources. After the 20% grid penetration mark renewable energy gets exponentially more expensive.
that's the greed of monopolies
yes joanna ,inflation is there for the rich to get richer
It's the same all over the world, they are adjusting prices with inflation, costs, maintenance, but our wages buy less every year......
It's actually not the same all over the world. Countries with publically owned utilities laugh at our sorry asses.
Very interesting video. I installed 34 panels on my roof in July 2011 so we've gone along a rather similar path. I've generated 70.8 MWh over the lifetime (also in California) so 7x the panels and 7x the power. The only difference is that I installed them myself so I saved quite a bit. We only spent $25K for the panels (230W) and inverters (also Enphase)
Here's the difference: we took out a $25K home equity loan which has payments of $200/month. We now generate 100% of our electrical power so we have no electric bill (they actually write us a $500 check every year) Our old electric bill used to be $200/month so the same amount is now paying off the loan rather than paying the utility - and no annual 8% increase! Break even is a little further out (10 years) but the lifetime of the panels and inverters is 25 years so it's all gravy at that point.
Even if you don't generate 100% of your power, the first solar cells on your roof will replace the highest tier consumption. If you can get your bill down to just tier 1 charges at $0.19/KWh, you're going great. Our peak usage was into tier 4 and billed at $0.40/KWh - twice the price! The first half of our panels would have reduced our bill by 2/3rds.
TL;DR - if you've got the roof space, solar makes sense. It's maintenance free, carbon free and domestically produced energy - what's not to like?
+RedwoodGeorge [Ricky] that's so awesome, thanks for sharing! I'd love to get to a system like yours. So my wife and I are budgeting for a few years to buy them hopefully in a few years time!
So you have the Enphase envoy monitoring software right? Feel like sharing a screen shot? Hit us up on twitter! @twobitdavinci
So cool, what part of CA? Judging by the username I'm guessing Northern California ?
Your argument is flawed and not applicable to most people. If you got the solar panels as gift, you'd see return on your investment immediately. That's just not realistic. Labor to install adds years to when you'll see your money back, and even more if you have to do roof repair.
you're pretty bad at math if you think 10 years is a good time period to break even. that 25k would be worth 65k if invested in a good mutual fund at 10 percent return.
captainkrunch: So... If you invest the savings...
From this date: Saving $200 a month (increasing by 6% a year = increased cost of electricity) for 10 years at 10% will leave you with over $51k at the end of 2027. That changes the equation a bit... It's only $14k less than you would have had if you invested directly. If the saving increases by 8% a year like in this video then you can go up to $55k.
I mean that's how I live my life. Anything I don't spend I invest.
As the cost of these systems decrease the break even time on ROI will only decrease along with it - Eventually outperforming any investment you can directly make over the same time frame. We work our entire lives until retirement to live out our twilight years in prosperity (if we are wise). Covering the electric bill is a good idea by any standard. When it's done it's done. You can weather tough times better, and it's an asset you own. Not subject to any external influence other than an "Act of God", for which insurance is usually quite reasonable. These people who bit the bullet already. You bet their lives are better than that of their peers. And what actually happened? They did not get all technical about it. They probably just ended up delaying the purchase of a new car by a year or two. As consumer decisions go... No harm no foul.
Provide solar system, solar batteries. www.orientpower.asia .
The inflation rate is not 8% per year. Utilities are among the highest drivers of inflation BECAUSE of their greed.
Electricity inflation has been 2.64% over the last 20 years.
Inflation rates are closer to 5% a year. You ever notice the rate of increase on groceries, and other products ? They go up at least 10% a year if not more !
Not greed, progress my friend. The more profit, the more advancements. Capitalism baby
@@babet4567 Progress? I'll remember that the next time I see slamming in my bill that they keep calling, "Oh (snicker, snicker), that was an hones mistake, sir." I always ask how many people out here are innocently paying for "honest mistakes" that these companies know damn good and well they're perpetrating. Dare we make "mistakes" in our taxes or in our payments to utilities, and Hell hath no fury.... Progress, indeed....!
He's in bloody California paying $0.39/Kwh I pay < $0.065 Kwh the pay off is completely different. He also needs to factor in how much he paid (and continues to pay) in taxes to fund the solar subsidy. My electricity rates have actually gone down in in the last 2.5 years. He's right that it's getting cheaper but the payoff is way longer than 3 years.
Maintaining power lines and operating the power grid is incredibly complicated and godawful expensive for innumerable reasons. California also has inflated wages which contribute mightily to the cost of operating and maintaining the grid. Moreover, Two Bit may not realize it but he IS part of the power grid in California - the electricity he generates for all intents and purposes goes into the grid first, and then they let him have it back if they are feeling generous. Other than portable, solar/wind installations are required by law to be connected to the grid the last time I checked.
WRT wages, I recently read that the San Valleo (probably not right) police chief RETIRED on $19,000.00 per Month ($208K/year) - If you compare that to other similarly sized municipalities you'll find it's significantly higher than most other places in the country outside of the mega metropolitan areas. Other highly skilled workers (such as linemen, grid controllers, electrical engineers) will have wages scaled similarly and there are thousands of those people plus their support and administrative staff. That all contributes to cost. Also insurance, is a multi million dollar line item on the budget. But greed has nothing to do with it. I won;t even go into the billions of dollars involved in securing and retrofitting security on to a grid system that was never engineered to be connected to a hostile internet because the NERC regulatory burden alone consumes departments of people and is utterly mind boggling.
Similarly, energy makes up less than 0.2% of my budget, so despite seeing an actual decrease, an 8% increase would bump that all the way up to 0.3%. which for all intents and purposes is nothing. It's would be significant if it was housing because that's typically 25-30% of a household budget in more normal areas (California, New York, Philadelphia, et al do not have "normal" housing costs)
9 years into solar ownership on my home. The system paid for itself in less than five years, including the federal tax credit. I converted my entire house to all electric and have two electric vehicles. Zero gasoline!! "no brainer" I simply love driving on sunshine.
Here we are in 2018. My electric bill is $300 during the summer. I would love to get solar panels installed on my house but our neighborhood HOA's bylaws state " No energy conservation equipment (solar / wind) shall be installed on any lot"! Total BS!
[Ricky] Yeah I avoided any HOA's like the plague. I didn't buy a house to be told what to do! But I'm sorry to hear that... I totally feel for you. Hopefully all this sort of stuff changes soon!
Move
I wish it were that easy!
In California, and other states, there is a Solar Rights Bill that prohibits HOAs from restricting homeowners from installing solar.
HOAs are nothing but corrupt organizations giving them legal right to rip you off any way they can. Ask the realtor first thing because they will fail to mention it until closing because they know people HATE them. My brother lives in GA inside an HOA and they are crooks. He can't even clean his gutters as all/any work performed on the property MUST be done by contractors on their exclusive list (Friends and family of the board). They charge twice as much as they should because, well, they can. The list is super long of restrictions and they will even tell you what kind of vehicle to drive as my brother's doesn't permit pick up trucks unless they belong to contractors working on your property. They employ a guy whose sole job is to do nothing but drive around looking for violations to fine for. Bottom line is stay away from them!
My neighbor paid way more than $10,000 to get solar panels and other equipment needed, even with a $7500 tax credit. After a few years, he needed to move and was moving into a condo. Anyway when he sold the house, he didn't get that money back that he invested in solar as the price the house sold for wasn't enough to justify his investment, so in the end it cost him thousands. Not many Americans live in the same house for as many years as they use to, so that is something to consider when investing in solar.
This is a good point. In the video he references the next 20-30 years being "pure profit", but how many people will live in the same house for 30+ years?
@@hunter371 Exactly! I understand the benefit that solar can have, but from a realistic point it's a small % of people that end up living in their house that long (let alone 10 years)
I don't know why I'm watcing this video, I live in the Netherlands.
We have a 8 years later video planned and we’ll try to make it valuable to all
Hello sir, just dropping in real quick to say I love your unbiased channel. The wildfire episode came up on my recommended and I loved it! I am now subscribed and binge watching. Thank you for the educational and honest vids, keep up the great work!!
Awesome, thank you, so glad to hear it and know you're subscribed! these are labors of love and we'll keep them coming!
Couple of things to add... need to account for panel power degradation over time, storm damage and the fact that many insurance companies won't cover the cost of removal and reinstallation if the roof must be repaired or replaced. They can also void certain coverages if they determine the presence of and installation caused or was responsible for a leak that lead to internal home damage. Things to consider also. I feel that in some situations, the overall implementation is a worthwhile investment, but as you mentioned, a long term strategy needs to be thoroughly developed.
[RIcky] Great point, my panels are warrantied for 80% output after 30 years, and after 6 years im well on track.
Also if you live somewhere with bad weather and hail, definitely considering calling your home insurance company and including them. Here in California, that's not a concern. thanks for your comments!
That output graph is cool because it's actually telling you how much cloud cover is over your house at any given point in the past. Seems like if they networked that data between all their customers, they could have a pretty accurate way to predict the weather.
I know! I think enphase uses that data to draw their prediction lines based on where you live. Which is so cool you can get a rough ball park before you pay any money
🍎 this is better than looking out the window to see the clouds..
. oh look ! I see a 🐶 I see a 🐱 I see a 🍆
There is already a system for that, called satellite photography. Perhaps you've seen the weather forecast with animated clouds? All that data is stored almost indefintitely.
@ Eric. Yes lightning is attracted to lead - that's why churches get stuck so often. For "blocking frequencies", metal is metal - a lead hat sounds like a pain the neck.
Eric Childs I think he was referring to tinfoil hats.👍
Good Job. Well Done.
One of the most informative, honest, straight talk videos on youtube. Thanks.
[Ricky] Thank you!
Live in California. I installed a 7.8kW PV system in 2015 which covered all my usage (leaky old house with HVAC use in summer). I was spending ~$3000/yr. My cost for system after rebate was about $15000. ROI ~5 yrs. I figured even during those five years I was earning $3000/$15000= 20% on my investment (it was earning virtually nothing in the bank). So it was a no brainer. Last year I paid $135 for the year. It was basically the minimum grid tied fee ~$11/month. Tip: 1. own don't lease. 2. Buy panels and equipment from a reputable company and reputable manufacturer because a warranty means nothing if they are no longer around.
hope all is well Kaserina! i know it’s a bit down the way but how have the panels held up?? roughly 7 years of having the panels! i’m genuinely curious
If your local corporation commission is allowing 8% per annum you are being fleeced. The occasion for a rate increase of this proportion should remain exceedingly rare. That is unacceptable.
[Ricky] I couldn't agree more, welcome to California!
Kilowatt lab update
Was it only me that noticed how many roof tiles they almost certainly broke during the installation.
@Bill Really do you think that several men walking about on your roof fitting these panels would not mention before they started that you had many broken tiles and you should get the roof fixed before they started work! Of course they would, if only to cover themselves. On the other hand if you start work on a good roof and break lots of tiles who's to know. cos no one goes up there do they? Wake up you tosser!
@Bill You are a joke . please Fu*k off
My solar company said beforehand that they will break roof tiles and they will replace them. Solar panels have to be inspected and pass code after installation. That means roof is inspected also. Company guarantees a 3ft radius around each screw for something like 3yrs. Could be wrong but it's a while. Solarmax here in socal
Have you ever walked around on one of those roofs? if the tiles are 20 or 30 years old they will break and not much you can do about it. especially if they were not installed right to begin with. Also finding new tiles that match is at times impossible. Therefore the owner should be pre warned. I install furnace and A/C units. I've had to deal with these at times and it suks!
@@rheadog9546 Yes I have, my point was that this work almost always will damage your roof, no matter how good/careful the installer is. That's it really.
In 2010 I had a $350/month (average) electric utility in San Diego County in CA. Our utility, SDG&E, had one of the highest rates in the country. I installed 40-245W panels and two-5KW inverters on a ground mount system. Total cost of material -$41,877.58. Total cost after tax credit and rebates - $24,087.31. Total labor charges - $0.00 I did it myself. $24,087.31 / $350.00/month = 68 months. It actually paid off in just under 5-1/2 years, If you take into consideration the huge jump in energy rates that SDG&E has instituted, the payoff was actually quicker. At today's rates ($0.53/KWh) my average monthly bill would be ~$795.00 for the same consumption. BTW - we run a business out of our house which is why we have the high consumption rate. So, I took the hit and invested in my future. I am now retired with no utility bill and receive about $150/year from the utility for my exported power. It is surely something to think about. Interesting how as the rebates were done away with that the cost of panels/inverters dropped dramatically. Also, the reason for two inverters: I check each day to see the output of my array. If it is off, I check the totals for both inverters. If they are the same, I know it was a cloudy day. If they are different, I know I have an issue with the panels or inverters to troubleshoot. I also ran a water line to my array so that I can regularly clean my panels. Much easier on the ground than on a roof if you have the space. Good luck to all of you thinking about this. It is a great way to control your utility expenses in the long term, even if the up front cost is a smack.
I moved into an RV. 12V everything. Energy is free. Life is good...
I live in AZ and have looked into solar energy and have been back and forth on the topic over and over and over and over and over, lol. My biggest issue is that we have tremendous sunlight year round and we are in a prime location for solar. The 2 different sales reps that came to our house seemed to say the same thing. They informed us that we have a very large roof that faces in the perfect direction and that we would be perfect candidates for a solar energized home. They actually said that we have more roof than would be used. That all sounded great and I was seeing dollar signs of money being saved in my head. My big concern was the fact that we would be taking a 20 - 25-year term on the panels and if we were to sell our home the new owners (buyers) would have to agree to take on the solar deal and cost until the end of the term of the solar agreement. Another issue I had was that as technology advanced and bigger and better things were happening with solar, none of it was included with your existing deal. I felt like you were stuck with the panels and whatever else you had unless you wanted to PAY again to change or upgrade. IDK if I made the right decision or not. Instead of seeing charts and rates and anything else, I would love to just see an average homeowner show his electric bill before solar and after solar over the course of a two year period or so. Whenever numbers and charts and all that are being thrown around, you never really know what the heck is/was going on. I am all for solar but of course, the electric company wants to keep making its billions and they aren't going to give you the greatest deal for you and your family, they are going to do what works best for them. True solar can put the electric company out of business and they will never allow that to happen.
I want to buy a small house that is totally reliant on real solar energy and the storage of energy that's created by your own solar panels and batteries, etc. I want to do this but not in the middle of Alaska or in some situation like that. I want to do this in an area that lots and lots of people live and in a home that is not one of these modern super small homes that have become so popular currently. Let's see how it works in a real home with a family and kids and a dog and all that goes along with that, lol. Can we all save lots of money and actually be off grid without too many issues or safety concerns? Living in a place that has the most sunny days a year in the entire country should be the perfect place to try this Hopefully there is a home that has done this and we can see their results. Don't trust the electric companies and other big companies. They want to stay in business, which is understandable but they have gotten so greedy that they will try to never truly allow you to be off grid if they can help it. There have been cases in which the utility companies have basically had people jailed because they weren't using their electric company, etc.. Yes, this happened in America and in more than one location. Good luck to all of us.
[CHRIS] Thanks for sharing. On the battery topic, we are closely watching the Tesla Powerwalls as they start to finally roll out. I think having batteries is the only way to get off the grid, but it currently comes at a fairly high cost; let's hope they come down.
You could just put solar panels along the fence and just use them for running the air conditioner there is a guy in Gilbert AZ selling panels for about 27 cents a watt on ebay.
I assume the company you tried was like one I looked at. if you pay upfront. ( cash or some kind of normal loan from your bank ) then the interest is wayyy less and you can include it in the house cost or take it with you. The ROI for cash was 10-12 years for me and I wouldn't get tax credits due to my low income, but was close to 30 years if I financed it with the Solar place. You would be better off getting a second mortgage ( or low interest personal loan if your credit is good enough ) to pay for the cost up front and then just deduct that monthly payment from the savings until it is paid off. On a 3-4% loan it should not add much but the 22-28% the Solar companies want is what pushes it out to 30 years. I would not worry about complete off grid for now, battery tech. is not quite good enough or cheap enough yet, getting 100% power during the day without batteries would be huge by itself and you would be feeding some back into the grid ( for credit ) when you generate more than you use. When the battery tech gets cheap/good enough then you can add it.
Electric companies aren’t selling solar.
That roof was whooped!!! That company broke a bunch of tiles and left them like that? That would be grounds for dismissal at my company. Also that stucco patch around the MSP is horrible! Not even paint matched.
Bottom line is if your going to get solar
1. Make sure your roof is going to last atleast another 15 years.
2 go with a reputable company and pay a third party roof inspection company to inspect the roof after install. If it fails make the company who did the install go back and make all corrections and pay for the inspection.
What you really need to do is to do an IRR calculation to determine if it's worth it not one of those payback calculations.
I appreciate the time that you spent going back and explaining your evaluation of the last five years. I installed panels two years ago and generate about 3.4 kW using 12 panels. My system is not grid tied, it is standalone and powers approximately 60% of my house. That does not include heat and air conditioning. however, I do have other energy saving methods. My system is also designed to protect our property in case of power outages because I live in the country and interruptions lasting minutes to days is normal. Also, the cost of energy here while it does increase approximately 8% each year, is much cheaper than yours in California. We pay about $.10 less per hour than you do.
In 2019, mine paid for themselves in 4 months. I'm totally off grid in Florida.
Really?? How? That’s record time!
@ Right! That's BS!
You got the panels for free?
@@Gamyuiii Dokio 110 watt all I need, $124, includes charge controller, all I needed.
Greg p i see thats not much then.
Im considering getting my 6.6kw panels but im not sure if its worth it to wait 10 years for it to pay back itself
I've lived off grid for 25 years. When I started it cost 5 dollars a watt and now it's 50 cents a watt. I found that 2000 watts of solar is perfect for me and with one forklift battery that 1500 amp hour I never run out of power. It only cost me 10 grand for the whole set up.
I agree with what you've done. I would rather just generate my own power and not try to sell back to the grid. I could care less about all that. The one question I have is: can I get off the grid or disconnect from the power company altogether? I live in Pima County, Arizona.
Ok, very simply, our electric bill averaged approximately $150/month. I contacted several solar companies and went with one who just installs the panels, permitting included, with a two-way meter so power can go back on the grid when not in use. The solar company estimated our usage and put enough panels on the roof to cover it. It has been a year now and we have not had an electric bill. We have a credit of about $300. We can keep the credit on our bill or take the money, however, we were told to keep it as some years are better than others and we may need it. I can not say enough good things about solar energy. Just get it while the credits are still in effect. It is well worth it. It will pay for itself in 6 to 7 years if you own the panels yourself. Do not go with a company like Solar City. It is, simply, a lease to own company and it will take 30 years to pay it back. Buy your panels and you won't regret it. If anyone would like to know what company we used leave a comment below. I just didn't want this to sound like a commercial for them but we are very happy with the outcome.
what is the name of the solar company you used and what state do you live in thanks
Thanks for sharing!
Name please. Thanks
Nice to know.. can I get the company name please. Thanks
Would love that company name please thanks!
I just discovered you guys yesterday and am now watching everything you have on home solar. Your presentation is professional, honest, data-driven, and extremely helpful for those of us that lack your experience. I suspect the negative "thumbs" are from folks with an agenda as anyone that has used UA-cam to obtain actionable information regarding the truth(s) about solar would only be amazed you deliver so much in such a short period of time. Thank You! (I live in North San Diego and am considering Solar, but I am stumped on how I can legally do it myself (I have the skillset).
It is my personal experience that the panels do NOT produce enough energy to pay for themselves in a timely manner. Mine cost 19,500, minus a $10,000 rebate from the state, leaving me spending $9,500 out of pocket. So far I may have saved $4,000 in five years. So it will take a total of about 12 years to pay for itself. That does NOT include future cost that I will have, and the increasing lack of efficiency they will undoubtedly have. Not to mention that the power companies require you to pay a minimum monthly fee to be tied in ! and I just hope I don't get hail, or hurricane damage. That does not include the fact that they need to be cleaned at least once a year. You're a lot better off spending the same amount of money on better insulation, and other varying energy saving means that don't need maintenance or replacing. DON'T FALL FOR THE HYPE !
EXACTLY! It amazes me how many ppl can’t do basic math. Anyone with a little knowledge and a calculator can figure out that it’s a ripoff. Plus, if you have a nice house, these big ugly panels destroy the look of your home.
It is a FABULOUS video!!!!!! I am still in my research stage (the very end of it) and will be implementing (solar and vertical wind) what I have learned from people like yourself. I closely pay attention to peoples "Ooops" and problems; and try to find ways that I will not repeat their issues. Please keep up the good work. You are straight forward and a good teacher. I shall watch more and learn more. GOD Bless.
+David Fr [Ricky] wow thank you sir! Very kind words indeed. I hope you just remember you can expand on your system later. It doesn't have to be all or nothing ;) one thing I didn't mention is run large gage wire like 10gage so you can continue to chain micro inverters to it without needing another wire to the circuit box.
If you ever have questions please don't be shy! I'm a mechanical engineer and just love this stuff. Give us some good ideas and we can make a follow up video!
Have a great weekend!
Thank you for your words of wisdom. I have chosen a system to cover all contingencies and then added 13% more to the number of panels. I also will be using 2+ vertical wind turbines. Thus my power needs for the house is well covered. Another system (solar and wind)will be installed for the farm yard and barn areas. And another separate system (solar and wind) dedicated to the walk-in freezer (cargo container/trailer) and root cellar (cargo container/trailer) I pray that I get it all setup correctly. I have already touched bases with EPA, USDA, DOE, and several other for full reimbursement of all of my systems. I will keep you informed on how it all works. I will be totally off grid and self sufficient!!! I look forward to it.
So "the government" is going to pay for your system? No, your fellow tax payers are paying of it. You sir, are a leach.
[Ricky] Hey Don, I removed my comment, you're totally right. I let a troll get to me, but I'll be sure not to let that happen again. You're a class act, thanks again, and I hope you'll still considering sticking around and subscribing. I'll hope to hear from you again!
In this case government is paying for good stuff as over long term they will be saving money on other things like health care as the air you are breathing will be less polluted.
Thanks very much for taking the time to prep and post this information.
Well done, informative and provides answers the common questions. Great job!
One of the best breakdowns I’ve ever seen! Thank you for your efforts.
Hey this Video paid for those panels now :)
This was great, thanks, been searching for "how much do you really save with solar panels?" for a while now, and I think this has helped. Ever heard of - Aanarter Exceptional Ascendancy - (should be on google have a look ) ? It is a good exclusive guide for discovering how to learning how to get free power minus the hard work. Ive heard some pretty good things about it and my brother in law got great results with it.
Great Video clip! Forgive me for butting in, I would love your thoughts. Have you thought about - Schallingora Computer Reconstruction Scheme (probably on Google)? It is a good one of a kind guide for saving money on your electric bill using this simple technology without the hard work. Ive heard some super things about it and my GF after many years got amazing success with it.
I do not know where you live, but my current cost per kilowatt is 9.1 cents. I am getting ready to renew my two year contract and I can get 7.8 cents per kilowatt. Based on your numbers it would take about 25 years to recover the cost of a solar system.
[CHRIS] Solar may not make sense for you. We did a follow up video on exactly that topic. We are in San Diego, where rates are as high as $0.42 per kWh.
Two Bit da Vinci holy cow! A herd of gerbils on wheels would be a good investment at those prices
It only makes sense to actually compare variable cost of electricity on your bill, not the average cost per kWh, against the savings from solar. In Europe fixed cost are in many cases above 50% - for transmission, taxes, etc.
[CHRIS] Will a couple of lazy cats work?
Great video, thanks! I like the cost analysis.
+David Ball thanks David! We're a new channel and we hope you subscribe. We're still finding what our viewers are looking for, so if you have ideas on what you'd like us to cover, let us know! Have a great day!
Two Bit da Vinci I'm interested in all things solar and energy in general. Anything to get us off oil. Subbed 😀
+David Ball you're a man after my own heart. So we're starting a Sunday morning chat series. Next week, Apple, then Home Automation, then we're covering Tesla and electric cars. So stay tuned for that. Also I was thinking about making a video on Why Solar Panels are so political, which I think you'll enjoy. Thanks for being a part of our community!
10k/0.78k is 0.78% roi per year. if you bought a house in japan or australia you can get 12% but hoses cost a lot more. if you invested in stocks you might get a few percent but with houses and stocks you might lose 50% if there's a crash like 2007. if you bought solar in 2007 not only would it be paid off by now you would have that 0.78% roi (really panels are 1/4 of that price nowadays so more like 3% roi) locked in plus you can only invest alimited ammount in solar unless you open a solar farm ao its makes sense to invest as much as you can spare unless you have a guarenteed better idea. plus stocks dont run you toaster
As a finance professor, I can only say that your analysis is wretched. Discovering whether your investment is a good one as compared to other ways of using your money requires both more data and a different mode of analysis. The bottom line question is whether your investment shows a positive net present value at a relevant rate of discount. You haven’t gotten anywhere near answering that question.
thanks for the vid. one thing i've been reading is that the typical panel has a very long life- in excess of 25 years, but the inverters are expected to last about 10 years before replacement. but not to worry, a average size single inverter is around $1200 ish... the micro inverters are much less.
Micro inverters last 25 plus years and many have long warranties
Depends on where you live. for example, if you live in india or egypt you'll get much more value out of it than is you would f.e. live in skandinavia or canada.
Hiroyugane that's my question, in Alberta Canada how much energy could a system like this produce? Potentially 1/3 - 1/2 of the year they're not able to function efficiently due to snow cover, and shorter days.
You should talk to someone local, but it's also important to note that solar powers produce the most power at 77 degrees Fahrenheit. So Egypt and India will have lower output because of the heat stress on the systems. They will also wear out faster because the hot sun can create quite a bit of damage over time. Another thing to note is that at the equator, you get 12 hours of daylight everyday, all year long. But in Alberta Canada, you have really long days in the summer (16+hours?) when the weather is nice and you have shorter days in the winter when you tend to have less sun anyways. I'm not from Alberta, but if you ask someone local who is into this stuff, they would probably have much more detail.
You can run different scenarios by using something like pvwatts.nrel.gov/, there are calculators all over the place.
Solar is useless in Alberta. They will produce very little and we have dirt cheap natural gas anyway you won't beat the price of gas even heavily subsidized.
Even if you live in Arab. You won't get any return from your own solar system. It will cost you more than getting electricity from a direct line. Do your math first.
Thank you. This is not a video I was looking for, but its one I'm glad I found.
You have to keep the data consistent and pure. If the cost of the system is $10k than it's $10k throughout the calculation. Because taxpayer's are unwittingly subsidizing a portion of your costs doesn't mean the cost is less... it just means you're not the only person paying for the cost. Also, who's to say the the government will use other people's money to subsidize the cost of solar panels in the future?
Environmental considerations should also include the pollution produced for the manufacturing of the panels.
[Ricky] So a subsidy isn't me taking tax payers money. It's me keeping a small portion of the tax money I am going to give to the government. The solar subsidy I received is a very small portion of the federal taxes I've paid in the same period.
To the pollution point: Most studies I've seen point to solar panels requiring 3 years of production to offset their manufacturing and installation costs. After that its pure green energy. So I'm already in the environmental green, and have been for 4 years. By the way those studies were largely done in countries will less solar hours than we have here in San Diego, so those figures are probably conservative.
[Ricky] If you have children, you get a tax deduction per child, so by your rationale, your asking the tax payer to pay for your child...
Well any tax not given to the goverment is being one way or another subsidized by everyone be it from increased taxes elsewhere or some programs receiving less funding. The thing here is that the goverment came to the conclusion that it was worth it to part with that tax to help promote solar energy, suposing that the goverment is correct in that conclusion it means a net gain for the country.
Two Bit da Vinci His point about taxes is that the government had to pay the 3600$ which means you are still paying 10 000$. You cannot calculate the ROI off of 6400$ because that is not the price the panels actually cost. You are still paying the tax credit with your taxes you pay to the government. So you are paying 10000 not 6400. If the government payed for 100% of the solar panels you wouldn't say you are getting them for free... Because obviously either your taxes will rise or cuts will be made in other government programs.
For the pollution point, he is not talking about manufacturing or installation costs. He is referring to the fact that making solar panels requires chemicals and the production itself causes pollution. Has nothing to do with cost but actual pollution caused by the manufacturing. Google it and you will discover that making solar panels is not at all 100% environmentally friendly. However that pollution is probably still lower than burning fossil fuels, but is certainly not anywhere near zero pollution. So it's wrong to think solar does little to no damage to the environment.
Also solar panels cause deaths. They cause a lot less than coal, but solar causes more deaths than hydroelectricity and nuclear. So if you change to solar and where you live electricity is generated from hydroelectric or nuclear power than you are increasing the risk to workers.
www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2012/06/10/energys-deathprint-a-price-always-paid/#7c0327dc709b
It's obvious that a new tech needs to be subsidized and if it's deemed a "Common good" then there' s a reason to subsidize it. With current prices, there's probably no more need to subsidize it anymore.
Yes, definitely worth it. Built a 20kW AC system in 2013; hit ROI this coming year. Make about $1500 a year from utility now. NEM rate is key. Fed 30% ITC good til 2021 is also important. Go for it. Make sure you get an Enphase IQ microinverter-based solution with some nice Solaria 355W XT ACM's or some LG NeON-2 335W ACe modules.
I think the idea of cooling my house with the sun in July is nice
Lol shut the fuck up
Problem is, you STILL have to have a traditional powered power plant for days/nights when when the sun don't shine.
Sim Salabim so true video 10k tax payers 3.6k of that. The energy is not efficient or reliable. I’ve worked in the energy industry over 10 ten years. The real solution to the co2 crazies saying the world is going to end would be nuclear with nat gas as the bridge fuel. I never hear anything about nuclear from these twats therefore know they are not knowledgeable on the subject. There is also great new technology on nuclear like the smrs.
Thanks for being an early adopter. People like you make it more affordable for future generations
I have a remote cabin with just about every amenity you’d have in a house and by going solar I have saved having to haul hundreds of gallons of fuel. I have a 4KW 48v inverter and 15KW of battery bank. I used to run a Honda 2000eui 2-3 hours a night and now the sun charges the batteries. I love the quiet and only hear an occasional plane go over.
At $.39 a KWH it would make sense to install them. Where I live that cost is much lower $.11 per KWH. If I installed the same size system as you did, because of the cost per KWH it would take me about 3.5 times longer to break even, and that is close to the life cycle expected out of the solar panels. For an off grid application I have been looking at where running power lines would be prohibitive in cost, doing a system like yours would make good sense for me.
Thank You for Your Comment!
yeah .39c is insane midwest only pay 11c per up to 20k
i can't find on my moms bill where it has a cost to usage price chart like yours has...
You can purchase good quality 250w solar panels for less than $250 each today...learn to install yourself, it's not difficult, and save more.
Why do so many people believe solar panels is THE solution to saving the environment? A big problem of solar energy is what you do when you need to remove/get rid of it. How do you recycle a highly technical and complex item consisting of so many different compounds, such as Cadmium telluride or Copper indium selenide? You should always be more aware of both sides to an argument, and in fact anything you encounter.
I was considering solar panels but my electricity bill just isn't high enough to recoup the costs (yet) over the lifetime of the panels. Now, what I did to improve my situation (resulting in a loss of 15% of power usage) was to install thermal films on my sun facing windows and sliding glass doors (this is a much cheaper alternative to try).
madmotorcyclist that just means you don’t build as big of a system. If it means you only need x number of panels for your needs then so be it. Your comment makes no logical sense.
If you dont use up all of the electricity the solar panels generated then it will sell the left over electricity to you electricity company. You will end up with credit in your electricity bill
Our electric company installed new digital meters and our electric bill went up over 10% just because of those meters.
Yep, they talk to a satellite transmitting to the company keeping track of the usage. Sadly, it uses quite a bit of power itself.
@@brandoncaldwell95 You are SOOOO wrong, they DO NOT use satellite, they use low baud rate serial communication over the very wires that bring the power to you, and they use no power that you pay for. SMH, jeeze stop spreading your stupid crap.
@@integr8er66 you got it 100% right it's called BPL broadband over power line.
integr8er66 it’s easier to blame others for your problems than accept responsibility. This videos entire comment section is full of people spreading misinformation and blaming the electric company for their problems
Solar panels put out their maximum output the day you install them and then begin degrading immediately and after a few years (varies from 10 to 25 years depending on manufacturer ) they have to be replaced and you must pay out all over again.
94% after 9 years. Warrantied to produce 80% output after 25 years. Don’t own many things that will last 25 years. Do you?
@@TwoBitDaVinci They are installing a solar farm near me and the owner told me that all the panels will have to be replaced in 25 years. Solar is NEVER a good investment and can only survive if they spend our tax dollars to subsidize it.
The monitoring software isn’t “free”, it’s included in the cost of the system.
ok
This is the most concise and straightforward presentation of solar I have seen. Simply brilliant. Thank you!
What about battery cost? And how often we need to change battery...?
This will add up to cost. Please explain
VIJAY SAI you can do a Google search for the cost of the batteries you want to use.I keep reading in the comments 5 to 10 year battery life.
Somewhat informed thanks
In india battery cost is high....
Thats why i m skeptical about solar...?
Power generation and battery cost ratio
you only need batteries if you are off grid. the newer systems are on grid and during the day you feed them at night they feed you.
Is there insurance on these panels? What if a tornado rips the panels off. Or say a high windstorm.
Thanks for the informative video. In South Africa ROI is not the main reason why we opt for home solar installations. It's more about independance from our sole electricity company and municipality. We pay the municipality they pay the electricity company but sometimes they dont pay due to money laundering and power gets cut to the whole town and then every one suffer. Sucks bigtime, but not if you have solar! We have sunshine right throughout the year and only ocationally stormey days.
pedal bike driven alternators!
Thank you. The ROI is the reason we have not gone solar. We just don't know when we may move and it may be sooner than later.
Where do you live? I live in Arizona, and we get alot of sun, so I'm considering going full solar.
[CHRIS] San Diego, CA. What are electricity rates like in your area?
Hi.
Here in Aust we are limited to 5kw roof systems. (INTO the grid) by the gov't.
Separate to (away from Grid). you can install as much as you want to use OFF the grid, IE pool systems etc.
Here in Central Q'Land. probably equal to your Florida climate wise.
a 5kw system will run a normal 2 story 2 or 3 person home. with 8.1kw air cond. 2 fridges/2 tv.s 2 computers etc.
I also have a 30 tube. Evacuuated tubes (Roof or frame) Hot water system. only need to turn on heater around 20 days a yr.
We installed around 12 yrs ago and costing here for 4.2kw with HWS.
Was just on $16k.AUD. We get 44c a kw from gov't cash back from state gov't.
Paid it off in around 8 yrs. as well as an av, of actual cash return per yr of.
nowadays $600/650 a yr. Was over a grand at beginning but power co's keep increasing rates.
If you DON'T / Can't get cash back. Just figure out what power you use. during daylight hrs.
Do ALL your dishwashing. clothes washing,tumbling. Get home temp.s down to comfort levels.
during daylight hrs.
and use as little as possible, power. in cloudy weather and nighttime.
THAT is the power you pay for.
Think about it seriously.
Set up correctly to suit your usage.
Solar WILL save you a lot over the yrs.
Buy Good quality panels and inverter. Check installer forums. they'll tell what are good and not good. I have some panels over 40 yrs and others. larger, over 25 yrs. still working good.
Wow this is so eye opening. I always reckoned that solar power could save me money over the long term, but seeing the data laid out like this just solidifies that notion. Especially with the fact that the cost of solar power equipment is always declining.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience and personal financial information. This was really informative and has me now seriously considering using solar power for my future home. You've inspired me, sir, and I'm sure you've turned a few other heads as well! Great work!! 👍
- Greetings from Toronto, Canada!
Friends of mine bought $27,000 of solar panels. The first year January to December they had the panels they got a bill in January
of the next year from the utility company. $32.28 for the whole year. Their utility bill before solar panels averaged around $350.00
a month. They live in a city where it is very hot year around. 100 degrees in the summer. 70 degrees in the winter.
Solar would not work for me. Too many tall trees around my home. Blocks the sunlight. Solar works best when the sun beats
down on them.
Awesome.
For them...
Who the fuck has $27,000 spare change to spend on solar panels?
$27k buys houses in my area lol.
This whole green world is a straight scam imo. Your average person couldn't imagine EVER affording this bullshit.
@@ClickClack_Bam If they put the $27,000 on a payment plan that is less than $350 a month they would be saving money right from the start.
Got mine and I do not regret it one bit! Oh thank you for the information I have 20 on my roof. Oh ya in the summer the panel's keep the rooms cooler underneath them.
[Ricky] Yes very true! rather than heat your roof, and your attic and your home, requiring more AC, solar converts that to electricity. So its a double win, also as a result, your roof tiles will last longer, with less intense heat and heat cycles.
Great video, would love to learn the effect cleaning the panels have. How much does output drop due to a branch blocking the sun on one of the panels. What are some different ways to wire the panels so that a branch blocking one of the panels doesn't affect the output of the others?
Great questions! So I have noticed about a 45 improvement when I clean the panels. With the monitoring software, it's easy enough to compare before cleaning, then after you get down, and how it compares after.
Now the drop off from shading is a very interesting topic, and maybe we're make another video that gets more in depth on the topic. But I can tell you that if you just place your hand in front of the panels, even though its such a small amount of shading, you can sometimes reduce power output by about 30-50%.
Shading is a solar panels worst nightmare. With my monitoring software I realized I had a tree that was causing some shading in the early morning, and I now keep that tree trimmed. These effects are more noticeable in winter, when the sun doesn't rise quite as high overhead as it does in summer.
Hope that helps!
First of all, great video! Very informative and clear!
Rohan Roy: If all of your panels are connected as one string, you are relying on the bypass diodes (MPPT of the inverter, also[?]) of the panels to cope with the lack of sunlight hitting the cells, when experiencing shading from trees, snow cover, bird poop, etc., which will drop the system to match the lowest output power (the shaded module). Optimizers are a good workaround, which basically make each module their "own string" and will not affect the output of the other modules, once passing the inverter. This is especially handy for tree shade, snow cover, roofs with different angles, etc.
But what is the lifetime of the solar panels
So basically your 1.2kw system ran you $10K back in 2011. Fast forward to 2019 with my recently installed 11.3kw system that ran me $45K. Pretty much what this means is prices have gone down by 50% since your system was installed. Crazy how much prices have dropped over the years. Hopefully they'll continue to drop even further so more and more people can stop lining the greedy utility power company's wallets.
Absolutely shocking how much more affordable it’s gotten
I've been wondering about the return for YEARS. Great info. :>)
we are going to do an 8 year follow up in February with a lot of updated information! We hope you'll subscribe and stay tuned!
Just subbed after looking at some of your other vids. Go man, GO. :>)
@@corvuscrow5485 video
@@briandriscoll643 - ...asshat...
You need to learn the difference between kw which is the rate at which you are generating power and kw-H which is energy. Almost all your quotes are kw-H. Your rates are 2-3 X as high as our rates in Arizona.
That's SoCal power for ya. Here in Las Vegas we pay $0.11 per kWh, year round, regardless of time of day or how much you use.
Klaa2, how do you know he knows the difference? Many of his listeners don't, and it would be better to not confuse or mislead them. It would also be better if you didn't call people "cunt" just because you have a minor disagreement with them. If you did that IRL, you'd get your clock cleaned pretty quick. Why do you think it's ok if you're on the internet?
Fred, that's my pet peeve too. People don't understand the difference between 'energy' and 'power'. TV & print newscasters make that error all the time. Power is the rate of supplying energy. He's made 10 MWh of electrical energy, 'power plant levels'. If he's comparing his installation to a 10 Mw power plant, that power plant put out as much electrical energy in ONE HOUR as he's made in seven or however many years.
@Klaa2 I don't think he really does because he mentions that 10.7 mw-h is in power plant territory. It's not. A 1000 Mw power plant would product that much energy in less than a minute.
@Klaa2 fuck off you ignorant piece of shit.
As someone who works in the industry, NEM is going to be changed from 2.0 to 3.0 in the coming years, which will decrease cost of panels because utilities will be offering about 75% value for the excess hours you generate, rather than the 1:1 ratio we have now. This is only decreasing cost in relation to your electricity provider, which will generally be a bit more expensive than it would’ve decreased with naturally. For anyone seriously interested in solar, at least in the state of California, I’d recommend going solar while the federal tax incentive is still available(thru 2021) & NEM 2.0 is as well.
Was the 10k cost including installation?
[Ricky] Yes $10k is total price for all materials panels inverters and labor permits everything. In 6 years, the maintenance costs have been zero
But doesn't the inverter battery degrade over time? Didn't you need to replace those?
[Ricky] I don't have any batteries in my system, I'm fully grid tied. I think the battery technology and costs will make it right for everyone in the coming years.But I didn't think they were ready yet.
My Enphase Micro-inverters are warrantied for 25 years, and they've worked perfectly now for 6 years.
Two Bit da Vinci what is your roofing material? Can you remove them yourself if you need a new roof? I've heard the added labor and flashing and whatnot for the roof mounts can be crushing.
They are charging less for panels, yes, but they are charging more for installation.
Lots more.
The electricity price you are paying is actually outrageously high! :O I've never seen that high cost.
Exactly. Memphis, Tn, .11 per. Controlled by MLGW, light, gas, water.
It's even higher is places.
I dunno... i paid $215 for 250w solar panels (each), have them on my roof and I'm doing pretty well I think...
Wanted to add that I also have a 1600w wind turbine I added, as we have pretty windy days/nights and that cost me about $700. After install (I did myself), I have just under $6k invested. I have a battery bank that runs on a separate circuit in my home, and I see an average of $100-$120ish savings monthly from my typical bill with a family of 5 (3 young children). Savings is great, but I have the system to cover a power outage/possible shtf scenario.
Very cool!
The chemtrails block the sun good luck chargeing
1:18 - it’s important to discuss any potential additions to your PV capacity w the installer first. DC-to-AC inverters are sold in terms of their ability to handle specific capacities, meaning that any system you plan on upgrading will need a bigger inverter.
I mention we have microinverters which is brilliant just for this reason
Thanks for taking the time to put this together. I've always wondered how much it all works out to! -Chad
[Ricky] thanks, and you're welcome! Please consider subscribing, we have a lot of related content planned for the coming weeks.
What this tells me is no matter what I’ll be paying the electrical company something. Their rate of inflation is crazy and it almost feels wrong that they can do that. Crazy.
[Ricky] Yeah it's pretty tough to swallow. For 2018 in San Diego, our tier 2 (anything over 380kWh) is $0.47 !!!! Truly sad
No.... it DOES mean they are GREEDY. Their costs are not going up 8% per year, they aren't investing it in making your bill less, and technology is becoming cheaper not more expensive... Solar is a great investment!
we have 10x 450w panels, generating more than 500 GBP a year of juice in money terms. System cost less than 5k GBP, so that's a ten percent return per year on investment,where else can you get safe 10 percent return on a 5k spend?
UK solar panels are self cleaning, apparently.
So basically you spent sixty five hundred dollars to install the solar panels and will break even using your math at $780 yearly x 9 years = $7020. That's when you will start recouping your investment.
The system is very efficient
Dude, I suggest you keep your kilowatts and your kilowatt-hours straight. Energy and power are different quantities.
It's the same thing dude. SMH
When you say you have a 100 watt light bulb, that means 100 watt/hours. Hope you learned something..
@@Bryan-Hensley It's watt-hours, not watt/hours.
@@Bryan-Hensley LOL AND SMH, you are a first class idiot sir. Watts and Watt-hours are NOT the same thing, that is like saying MPH and miles are the same thing, so if you are going 100 Mph then that is the same as going 100 miles.
@@integr8er66 I see you ran off in shame 😂😂😂😂
This was a great video, Very Informative and awesome that you show us the Data and billing system to show how it's not as simple as saving X amount per KWH but also that keeping consumption in a lower Tier saves the higher charge rate. Even though this video is older it is still very relevant. I think another exciting thing that has more recently come to my attention is while using solar and battery storage to store the energy, if you can work with that stored power and use it during PEAK hours, when companies up the rates Each Day for certain hours. This strategy can save us money in a similar way you are saving money, staying out of the higher Tier. Kind of Cool I think.
There is a difference between power and energy. A kilowatt is not the same as a kilowatt-hour. The mixing up of these terms and units in the video drives me crazy.
[CHRIS] You think you are alone? So many people, got driven so crazy, it made Ricky crazy, and even did a follow up video on it: ua-cam.com/video/yaeWYgb7S2o/v-deo.html
EXACTLY»»» kilowatt*hour should have a name,a real name,but it does not,and most people get confused;
I propose a name for it : the KOUR.
Your electric company is hosing you. That’s why your ROI is so good. Down here in South Texas my power comes from the coal fired plants, and I’m only paying $.16 a kilowatt hour
Yah our grid is much cleaner and more expensive. Living in California is an expensive proposition. Everything here costs more than Texas unfortunately. But it’s not all bad... most Californian homeowners have hundreds of thousands in equity, for rising home prices which isn’t common in Texas.
I have a lot of coworkers who are moving from Silicon Valley to Austin and I’ve considered it too ;) we could basically buy a house cash if we sold our home here in San Diego. But the weather... lol
The video production was fine but the author confused power (kW) with energy (kWh). That didn't affect his answers, however. You are producing and/or buying energy, not power.Our electricity supplier seriously penalizes users of solar energy, in particular in the way they process the energy you may send back to them if you have a net surplus at any one time.
Also, if you simply declare that you want to use THEIR solar power (an option for customers who want to "go green") the energy rates are simply increased and you have the right to say that you are using only solar power. The fact is that EVERYONE on the grid is using some part of the solar power available on the grid. You simply pay more for the ability to say you are using solar/renewable energy.
Kw is kwh. SMH. When you buy a 1500 watt heater, that means you have a 1.5 kwh heater. It's the same thing.
In 2013 we went to 22 solar panels. Incredible savings on electricity from day one. Living in sunny CA, solar has the best R.O.I. for money that can be had. Combine that with two electric cars, and you're livin' the dream...
They don't PAY you at the same rate that they CHARGE you for electricity. You're not going to get rich selling your excess electricity.
[CHRIS] So true now. Though Ricky was grandfathered in to Net Metering where I believe it was a 1 for 1 (sell and buy at same value).
It's not an injustice you are paid at the same rate of any energy producer. You are not the retailer, you are the supplier. They aren't ripping you off, they are paying you the same as the coal or fracking company.
Thank you!
Although you should add " financial cost" (is the correct traslation?), the value of money in hand is higher than the same amount after 5 years. Consider the "interest compound" (again, hope it is a good traslation. The profit you have if you put the cash in a bank "fixed term deposit")
But the important: the data is valuable and you are saving the planet.
Nah, the planet will be fine, the people are fucked. :p
Mark Beiser That's absolutely true... The plants started! The planet was fine until they contaminated the air with the explosive and corrosive oxygen.
@Joaquin: The word you're looking for is "opportunity cost", money you can't use elsewhere. @6:34 - The TRUE COST of the unit is still $10,000, YOUR cost was only $6,400. thanks to subsidies. (You're welcome.) At 10% interest (if you could have found it) that's ~$64/month, the same as your monthly savings, so kinda a wash. But you've got taxes, investment risk, inflation on one hand and depreciation (it wears out), unit failures, and Acts of God on the other. You're also using the utility as a giant battery which is easy but I find distasteful -- run STANDALONE or DON'T. On, and @Mark the planet is doing just fine, it's the _biosphere_ that we care about is a bit changed. "What doesn't kill me makes me stronger" -- that's pretty much evolution as long as you're still within reproduction age.
Actually, unless things have changed in the last few years, it takes about as much dirty energy to make a solar cell as the cell will produce in energy over its lifetime. So, unless the cell was made with clean energy, it doesn't do anything to save the planet.
What he left out was the present vs. future value of money as well as inflation.
Holy Crap! I pay .082/kwh all inclusive here in north Texas. Those prices are outrageous in my opinion.
+seroxide [Ricky] I have a lot of friends in Texas and trust me the prices in CA are 100% outrageous. Texas rates for energy and living expenses in general are just so enticing!
+seroxide [CHRIS] In SoCal with $0.21 and $0.42 rates for me, moving Texas sure sounds tempting. But then I think about how many months or hours we run AC or Heat, and I’m thinking it’s pretty minimal compared to other states. Not saying I like the high rates though!!!
It's probably worth a lot just to live in sunny California. I use to travel to San Diego frequently on business. I really liked it there. Warm days, cool nights.
We paid higher rates until electricity was deregulated a few years ago.
+seroxide [Ricky] deregulated! Interesting, so what happened with the utilities were deregulated?
Yeah as expensive and annoying as it can be at times, we do really love San Diego.
Thanks again! I'd love to pick your brain about how deregulation effected power costs in Texas. Maybe a future video? Thanks!!
In a nut shell we were paying .15/KWH about 15 years ago just before deregulation. We're currently on a 2 year contract for .082. My older daughter is on a 3 month contract for .065. You can literally change providers every month. You are stuck with the carrier (owner of transmission lines and infrastructure) in your area. Prices I showed include transmission costs. Our home is total electric and we average 2MW per month. We keep thermostat at 72 in summer and wife does laundry every.
If you don't shop around you can easily pay .17/KWH with the old legacy provider.
Me: *owns no house*
Also me: look at all the money I'll save
Well done, very informative user experience, it's nice to see an intelligent man benefit from a natural source of renewable energy.
Please, when you're talking do not speak of kilowatts as a measure of energy produced. Watts measure power, energy is usually measured in kilowatts hour and it is very very different. Thanks! Please don't hate physics, it is an important thing when talking about engineering or energy!
Yes that was getting on my nerves.
watts or how many watts in an hour... meh big deal
@@prodigy2k7 you are just indicating that you are totally clueless about what the units mean. Not only are you clueless you are proud that you are.
@@doug112244 No. He's indicating that he's not a complete dolt and knows exactly what the man is implying when he says kilowatts instead of Kilowatts per hour... This Andrea dork took a little class on electrical engineering and thinks she's a know it all expert when she probably can't screw in a light bulb... If I said a cop caught me going 20 over the limit, do I really need to go into detail and tell you a cop caught me going 20 MILES over the speed limit? Use your head.
@@Jason-wc3fh I am using my head. You are just defending that you are dumber than a box of rocks and proud of that fact. Units are critical parts of measurements. I was willing to believe that he was simply misspeaking until he compared 10.7 Mwh to a power plant then it was obvious that he really doesn't understand the difference between energy and power.
Units are so important that there is a whole field called dimensional analysis that uses the fact that units need to be consistent to gain an understanding of what is going on in a particular system.
This and those Tesla videos are super detailed and informative. Sub'ed
Thanks! Battery part two comes out Saturday!
I'm not trying to be cynical, but how well do solar panels stand up to golf ball Texas sized hail?
@2:21 10.5MW would correspond to a small/renewable energy power plant for instantaneous power. You generated 10.5MW *hours* - it's taken you years to generate what a power plant can produce in any given moment. It's still cool to see such a large amount of power being generated at home!
Solar shouldnt just be driven by cost issues only but by self sufficiency. Im from the caribbean where electricity is expensive and hurricanes wreak havok on the electrical grid. Having a solar system combined with rain water harvesting allows me a peace mind. Eventually ill get an electric car and be free from gas stations...self sustainable tech is about decentrilizatiom
[Ricky] So true, that's a great point, we actually have a follow up video we're releasing Oct 10, so subscribe and stay tuned!
But absolutely, you make a great point, the benefits are multi pronged.
[CHRIS] I didn't realize a Prius costs double or more, but a friend of mine leases a pure electric Chevy Bolt for under $200 per month, which is low compared to other leases I have, like a Mazda 3. I think pure electrics make sense if you can charge for free or cheap at work, gas prices are high in your area, and if you can have a charger installed at home and are offered a discounted electricity rate; most of which are somewhat common here in California.
What ? I just bought (24) Sun Edison 320 watt panels (framed) for $2600 including shipping from Arizona to SE Michigan
[CHRIS] This was 6 years ago. What are installation costs these days?
Ahhh.. you're including installation, etc. Sorry. Then yes. I have no clue what installation costs- I wouldn't think of paying someone to do such basic labor. But then again, I'd do my own root canals if my hands weren't so damn big. Great video BTW - you really break it down. My return on investment is hampered by the fact that the 18K I've got tied up in my off grid system would otherwise be sitting in corporate bonds throwing off about $900 a year--- shoving my pay back somewhere out beyond my expected life time. But I'm having a blast.
Just curious where you got the Sun Edison panels from at that price? That's a really good price.
Mark Osborne from where did you buy your 24 SunEd 320 watt panels?
Santan Solar- Gilbert AZ, you can also find them on Ebay Tell Jason I sent you - ;-)
I heard the batteries and inverter are warrantied for 5-10 years depending on the vendor. So after 10 years you are likely looking at replacement of those components. However, the panels themselves seem to last longer although they lose about 20% output over the 25 year warranty.
Yes panels and my micro-inverters will last 25+ years. We don’t have batteries but on our next house we definitely will
Excellent video. I installed 100 in January of 2015, using the same panels and inverters as in this video. After rebates, my total cost was $60K. I am in Austin, Texas where we get a lot of sun and use up a lot of power cooling the home. I went from average summer bills of $450 to nothing, even with the fuzzy math used by Austin Energy when they calculate my bill. Though I produce far more than I use, they charge me an average of 14 cents per kWH for what I need from the grid, while paying me 11 cents for what extra I produce. I advise people considering solar panels to first check with their power company as to how they will calculate your bill. The fair way is that your meter goes backwards when you are producing more, giving you credit, and turns back to normal when you need power from the grid.
Yeah, because there are no infrastructure costs involved with delivering electricity to/from your home...
The 11 cents per kwh they are paying you is already a subsidized rate, that is artificially set orders of magnitude higher than the wholesale rate for electricity.
It is even higher than the RETAIL rate many people in Texas pay.
Here in the DFW area, my average cost per kwh is less than what Austin Energy is buying your excess for, and that is factoring in the extra $10.99 "minimum usage fee" I have to pay all but 1 or 2 months for using less than 1,000 kwh a month.
How much do you make when selling????...Just curious
I live in Amarillo, we frequently get high winds (70mph) & golf-ball to base-ball sized hail. I've considered solar for a while since this Texas sun is so merciless, but every time i look at it i cringe with the thought of having to fix them every spring when the storms kick up. If they are about as durable as a car windshield then it just wouldn't be a viable option in my area. Are there options for some sort of protection for the panels?
Wayne Martin
The 3cents are for transporting your power to the next client ie power lines, cables..etc.
imagine buying 60000 $ tesla stock instead of tesla soler panels all bills paid.
2:20 "MWh of energy" not "MW of power" ;)
I would take out a big loan, cover my house with solar panel. Sell it back to these electricity firms and make them bankrupt
Oh well who Im I kidding, I dont even own a house
I would BET the cost of the return electricity would go WAAYYYY down
You may not own a house, but look at the bright side, you're still being taxed to subsidize homeowners putting solar on theirs! Isn't government saving the environment amazingly awesome?
+Deren Dohoda It is harsh but true lol
The electric company here has worked quickly to be protected by law under this. They are a monopoly and regulated by the government. Therefore they employ lobbyists that provide incentives and kickbacks to the politicians. So the laws are tailored so they can stick it to us now. A few years back they screwed up and improperly stored a bunch of waste which was a big no-no according to the nuclear regulatory omission. Never fear they legislated theirselfs a waiver. Then the cost of fuel was at an all time low and they had a bill passed keeping the state corporation commission from looking at their profits for 5 years so they wouldnt be force under code to lower rates.
Power you *take* from the company costs alot more than power you *provide* to the company. In my case it's in the region of 10c per kwatt down, and 3c per kwatt up.. But, ideally you don't want to be a net producer. Ideally you want to size your install so it covers your power needs. Mine was sized for 'slightly less than I actually use', although in the last 8 years advances in LED bulbs, lower power televisions etc etc has about covered the reduction in output that panels suffer over the long term. I continue to have bills in the region of $3-30 a month. Whereas before panels it was in the region of $250-300 a month. On a very rare few occasions (away from home for 2 weeks during summer holidays for instance) I have had a net positive, but they don't send me a cheque.. they simply reduce next month's bill by the amount over-produced - and that's okay with me.
An important factor in the savings of solar panels is whether your power company buys your surplus energy and at what price.
This also determines whether it makes sense to also buy a battery to store your surplus energy.
The price of these batteries also drops every year.
Thanks for this. I'm actually getting into being a sales rep for a solar panel company and I wanted to gather information on the product before I start trying to sell it. I'd rather not lie to people when I'm delivering a pitch. yeah I know kind of an odd quality for a sales guy to have lol.
very commendable and best of luck in your future endeavors Robert!
Actually believing in your product is what makes the best sales people.
bad news this does not really work that good in the north wth clouds and snow but the bad news is you pay big for panels they are not as effective as the years go by. the worse thing is if the grid goes down you still have no power they do not allow the panels to work without the grid
[CHRIS] Good points, and it is definitely worth watching our follow up video on how to decide is Solar is right for you and your area: ua-cam.com/video/mBsG4laZyEA/v-deo.html
Not nowadays. Buy good quality panels. they much MORE efficient that what they were 20/40 yrs ago. with much higher capacity too.
Speak to a Solar tech/installer.
they'll install a sw/diode, Whatever. in line.
It isolates your system from the grid and you can run the home. Fully or partially From your solar system. according to solar capacity.
Legally.. Here in Aust anyway.
Also some inverters have a capacity to additionally do battery charging at same time.
We topped up my battery bank over 5 yrs to a point it runs my pool pumps, swim jets etc, separate to house supply. combination of 1.2 kw from roof panels and others on pool deck roof.
4.2 kw panel system runs this home as long as sun shining.
8.2 kw Aircond unit. Fridges power etc etc. and still adds some to grid. AS long as sun shining.
30 tube Evac tube water heating system, covers our use of hot. for, on average. 340 days per yr.
...today's panels more efficient and less cost, but youre speaking of an on-grid system. if your panels are tied into the grid, then they won't produce power for your home.
dave, my panels will work without the grid and I have power especially when the grid goes down. Heck, they aren't even hooked up to the grid. The panels are 100 watt panels and cost $100 and I have two 6volt golf cart batteries. I have plans to double my system in size as I need to go off grid before the nuts take over the USA. I don't know why anyone would lease solar panels or hire someone to put them in. Mine were plug and pay and simple to put up.
I don't know where you live on the planet. But here in Australia. you can have an electronic sw installed in power box (Sparkies charge around $100/120 installed). that trips your panels output into house circuit when Grid trips itself off. While isolating home 100% from output to grid. so it's safe for all sparky's working on grid problems. NO Output into grid beyond that isolator.
then visa-versa.
We are living on solar here in NZ :D It's the perfect power system for our yurts :D
Isn't it sunny almost everyday.
What's a yurt?
Why do so many people believe solar panels is THE solution to saving the environment? A big problem of solar energy is what you do when you need to remove/get rid of it. How do you recycle a highly technical and complex item consisting of so many different compounds, such as Cadmium telluride or Copper indium selenide? You should always be more aware of both sides to an argument, and in fact anything you encounter.
What about replacing of batteries every four years.
5 years is most VRLA solutions although you can make them last a lot longer if keep them in good condition. I have some VRLA's that are 11 years with 97% efficiency. If you move to wetcell, you can last 20+ years.