The Christian Themes and Aesthetic of The Vault FFXIV
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Christian Themes of The Vault
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That statue of Halone (well, an identical one) also shows up at the end of Dusk Vigil, though the final boss destroys it.
It seems like your standard depiction of Halone in Ishgard, it actually shows up in many places, it makes sense that place that Ishgard would have essentially a mass produced depiction of Halone since they're so close minded.
Fantastic video!
I'm an ex-Catholic myself (even went to a catholic school growing up) and I couldn't deny that stepping into Ishgard was like stepping into nostalgia. Although I no longer follow the religion I am absolutely fascinated by its history and nuances (and architecture, they really went off with the aesthetic), which is part of why my main RP character in XIV is an Ishgardian hyur dark knight who is stuck between her faith in Halone and the corruption of the church and government.
I loved this video, it really goes into a lot of detail and definitely earned a sub from me.
Have you done the Endwalker alliance raids?
whats her name, Martina Luther? (95 theses joke)
Watching this video has made me realize that, yes, churches are indeed built to have the shape of a cross when seen from above. This is one of the those obvious things that I just never stop to analyze and realize that, it is indeed, a thing.
I (sadly) don't have wings so I never really noticed the shape of churches from a perspective other than on feet, which equates to "Oh wow, that's a building made of stone that has bells!"
There's an enormous amount of care and artistic work that went into these structures! They're very pretty to look at.
Entertaining, informative, easy to watch. Now I know much more about the architecture of cathedrals than I did before coming here! 😊
I'm happy it was informative!
This has given me a new appreciation for the Vault, specifically how it kinda just falls apart as a coherent structure as you move through it. The beginning all checks out, but the deeper you go you start finding areas that aren't quite named correctly or just seem out of place compared to how an actual cathedral would be designed. Its a great parallel to how digging into the history of the Ishgardian faith leads to the realization that its built on lies, unraveling just as the Vault itself does. (Also note the name, Vault, as if its a place to keep secrets.)
Also the White and Black Knights are mainly just there to tie into the grander chess theming things from Ishgard tend to have. Most notably the Machinist job, which at one point had turrets named for both the bishop and rook, and is why their big robot is called a queen.
I haven’t finished the video yet, so I don’t know if it has been mentioned at all, but; The White Mages of Amdapor held a faith, which whilst we don’t know much about it, we do know that pre 5th calamity, the white mages prayed directly to Nophica, rather than the elementals like they do in modern times, but to the same effect. The Amdapori are more catholic than the Ishgardians. The Ishgardians are thought to have gotten these catholic like influences from white mages who fled the flood and assisted in construction of Dravanian architecture (which takes heavy inspiration from Celtic construction). It’s highly likely that the conjoining of cultures lead to the early Ishgardians to turn their pagan like faith into one more structured under the auspice of Halone, hence why the Ishgardians also still hold fast to their Norse like beliefs.
This is a really cool observation! I wonder if the devs drew inspiration from when Christianity spread and converted in Celtic lands. There was a brief period during this time where they two somewhat merged. However, it led to a lot of issues because of Christian monotheism. However, this is where the Celtic Cross came from, which is the cross with a circle in the middle.
This was really interesting! I've been running the Vault a lot lately to level tanking classes and it never occurred to me how the enemies rise in rank as you proceed through the building, but it makes sense. And I want to get into that upper level garden SO BAD. Great work on the video!
Nice, I didn't know cathedrals had such rich lore. Just figured they were big for the sake of big.
Well they were meant to be grand displays! Everything had a practical function while also being a work of art.
It took me a trip to Rome to visit their many, many churches to really grasp how awe-inspiring these spaces are. Massive structures, filled to the brim with art, a demonstration of power built on hundreds of years of faith. I'm not used to churches like that and you can't help but feel awe-struck. The Vault didn't really recreate that feeling with its dim lighting, the closed gates and - of course - all the fighting. I partly believe that this might have been on purpose to show the corruption of faith that is at play here. Maybe that's why it lacks the beautiful stained glass windows and statue of Halone.
Rome is beautiful! I was very grateful to see it. It probably is very difficult to recreate that feeling in FFXIV, but I like your idea that the people of Ishgard should focus on the Archbishop and the Heavens Ward. But it does make me wonder why Reymanaud's Cathedral was so colorful by comparison.
I don't know how common it is for a cathedral and a basilica to be built so close to one another, but it may be the case they were built at such different points in time that there was a different mindset on how a holy space should look and function. Or maybe it's because Reymanaud's Cathedral seems to be a place primarily for the members of the church, given the presence tribunal and the church's library
Should point out that's the Sea of Clouds which is more like ridiculously thick mist, all of Ishgard city is above it. The Vault is built on the very back edge of the plateau.
This was such a fun dive. Also it took me forever to realize your name means cat mage. It's so cute
Great video! I was kind of hoping you'd touch on the Roman origins of the basilica as a general meeting place, before Catholics adapted it and made it cross-shaped as basis for their places of worship, especially when Emperor Constantine made it the empire's official new religion.
This is a great point. There's always so much more than can be said with these topics. There are some structures that have changed hands more than once. Also some structures had some additions or repairs that added different styles over time, blending all of them together into some really pretty buildings.
This was really well thought out and presented! I knew some things on a high level as to the architecture and the symbolism involved, but I especially enjoyed the breakdown of a cathedral's layout you provided in the first half of the video.
Thank you for your effort and research on all this, oh Magical Kitty. I learned more about something that already fascinated me.
Oh, didn't realize i wasn't subbed. Love your videos, they're very informative and fun :D
Keep up the good work!
I think it's fair to bring up how the nation was founded on lies and how they essentially revered their bishop as an almighty power akin to Halone herself. The grand stage without stained glass meant all focus was on them when they stood there, no room for eyes or minds to wander away. Also, having the Inner Sanctum be out of reach to the even high houses makes the idea that the clergy were a class above even the high houses visible in a subtle way.
The Halone statues repeat a lot, even the same ones in the Firmament; I just think the craftsman made one good mold and copied as many as they wanted. If it ain't broke lol.
I like how there wasn’t any bias or whatnot, just information!
I also find lore and real life inspirations in the game fascinating xD this was well done!
How interesting!! Thank you ❤ subbed❤
I love the music from the vault
Thank you!
funfact: Gargoyles were originally just the drainage pipes attached to buildings, and would commonly be decorated with adorning statues called Grotesques. Eventually the two became so heavily associated with one another that the entire thing became known as a gargoyle, and then the most striking part (the hideous statue) came to be the sole part associated with the term. In a weird way, the statue stole the name from a common drainage pipe.
I always love these topics where seemingly mundane or just practical things get woven into tales or stories and become a whole new world of fantasy on their own. I guess that's what we do today with modern media, where a character or a tool appears in a show or film and then a whole backstory gets created for it 😸
very much enjoying your content
loved how in depth this was !
Absolutely one of my fave creators. You bring back the feeling I had learning about real world history through the old AC games as a kid. Ty for this!
Thank you so much. It makes me really happy to spark historical interest in others!
Excellent video, really enjoy your focussed informative style!
awesome video!
I LOVE THESE VIDEOS!!! ❤️❤️❤️
Durham cathedral mentioned!
I just have to ask if it’s chapter house was your reference pic as well (I’ve been inside)
I think what just about everyone misses is Ishgard is England, its the Anglican church, not Catholic church. Most of the architecture in Ishgard is Tudor.
Yes, believe it's the second photo i used in that section is the Durham Chapter House! 😺
@@Ailuromage I knew it reminded me of it!
And at the top of the Vault was a reference to John 15:13.
In its purpose as an actual vault, do you think it also fulfills the defensive function if ever attacked by dragons? Also a bit of a minor question, but does it matter that Ishgard is an orthodoxy or no?
Ishgard definitely has certain defenses that we see, but I personally would not want to be on a small staircase in the sky during a Dragon attack 😹. Perhaps the innermost parts are well protected, but we only get to see so much of the structure!
As for Ishgard being Orthodox. Orthodox relates to tradition or being traditional, and the word has Greek roots. In terms of Christianity, it's used to somewhat say "The Original." Orthodox Christians believe they are following the original traditions of the First Christian Church, and this is why the 1054 Schism happened in the first place.
So for Ishgard to have the "Ishgardian Orthodox Church," its them stating that their belief is the one, the true, and the original. So to them, other beliefs are edited or have changed, but they have and will remain unchanged and rooted in tradition.
@@Ailuromageit also plays in some with the AST quests and Ishgard’s rejection of Sharlyan astrology, which i just put together
Algorithm
*MAJOR FFXVI SPOILERS AHEAD READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!*
I was kind of sad about FFXVI, I saw scenes from the game and I thought it was really cool, I was considering playing it, but I noticed that the game seems to have a strong anti-religion message or a complete rejection of religion and God, I'm a very devout Christian, and I was very bothered about how the final villain seems to be a direct reference to God during the Old Testament, this has really taken me away from the game and I don't think about playing it anymore, which is a shame because I thought it was a very good game.
If you intend to respond to me, please be polite, this is a criticism I have regarding the game, if you have counter-arguments or disagree with my opinion, do so respectfully.
Miss -- its modeled after England and the Anglican Church.
Ishgard mixes a number of European styles together, however, it is heavily influenced by Gothic Architecture. The Church is modeled after the Catholic structure, literally a central government controlled by the "Holy See" as a theocracy. Ishgard itself is a City State.
Then Anglican Church does not have a central single all encompassing authority and the existence of the Anglican Church is tied to their rejection of the Holy See because they are protestants. The Anglican Church has two Archbishops, the Archbishop of Canterbury and York. The Archbishop of Canterbury oversees two provinces, and the Archbishop of York oversees one. The Archbishop of Canterbury is referred to as the "Spiritual Leader" and the seat for this position is the Canterbury Cathedral, which is a mixture of Romanesque and Old Gothic design, and not Tudor. (as i saw you mention in another comment).
Tudor can refer to either a style that emerged in the 15th century, as it is relating to the Royal Tudor family (House of Tudor) that ruled for a period of about 120 years. This one is characterized by that sort of "cottage" look you see in children's stories, with the triangular or sloped roofs, line like patterns, and timbered walls. For anyone that wants a really quick google check, search Shakespeare's Birthplace. It's a very popular landmark that showcases what this Tudor looks like. It can *also* refer to an older style that is a blend of of Late Gothic and English Renaissance style, which incorporates timber, brick, and stucco. In this case, Tudor is more classified by E or H shaped structures with "depressed" arches. Meaning, arches with wide span and a low rise. However, this is not what we see in The Vault. The vast majority of arches, windows, and so on in The Vault are undeniably Gothic Arches, tall rises that are longer than their span.
Ishgardian structures are angular and sharp, with spires and sharp apexes, and the majority of them are built out of stone. Some are timbered, but the city is heavily characterized by its overwhelming use of stone.
Additionally, the "gard" part of the city name comes from "gård" and this is heavily rooted in Nordic etymology. It relates to a kind of enclosed space, in practice it can be used to refer to an enclosed structure, like a fortress. Ishgard itself is essentially a giant stone fortress. Although the English language borrows from Norse words, England is not Norse. What we call Norse primarily comes from Scandinavian lands, what is now Norway, Denmark, and Sweden today. This all connects well to the Heaven's Ward.
If you look at their names and titles, they have names such as "Ser Grinnaux de Dzemael" and "Ser Adelphel de Chevraudan." Using this term in someone's name like this is relating to the French use of "de" usually within nobility or titles, and Knights would use this too. "De" meaning "of" and it is designating that this the land or house that they are from, and this is canonically, where these characters are from. In fact, I think "Hermenost de la Treaumaille" has one of the prettiest sounding names.
I bring this up because I do not think this was a coincidence. Norman people came originally from Nordic lands but ended up settling into French culture over time, and took French names. Where the majority of these people settled is what we now call the region of Normandy in France. This in addition to the Gothic people, which are believed to be Germanic and some historians believe they came from southern Scandinavian lands. Wherever they originated from, their influence in Europe is a major part of world history. Ishgard is a blend of all of these elements together. Gothic, Germanic, French, Norse, and so on together into a fantasy Theocratic City State ruled by a Central Government under a Holy See.
With all this being said, the biggest thing here I am just baffled by is that you're saying Ishgard's Church is modeled after the Anglican Church. They split in the 16th century to resist the Holy See to found that church. I do not believe Anglicans would ever submit to a central governing theocratic Holy See without an international incident.
@@Ailuromage I feel like very little is understood about Henry VIII, Elizabeth I, and the Archbishops of Canterbury, who for practical purposes just stopped serving the pope and and started serving themselves. While the King/Queen technically headed the Anglican church they had very little interest in religion, they wanted the pope's power for themselves. The early Anglican church under the Tudors kept all the symbols and pomp, just changed its name, its often tied to the protestant reformation, but it really has nothing to do with what was going on in protestant Europe, if you were attending the Church of England you wouldn't have noticed a difference. This was the beginning of one of the bloodiest periods in history, the religious wars that the royal families engaged in, and the power the Archbishops of Canterbury held was frequently abused. They frequently killed Catholics in public for instruction, witnessing people being burned alive would certainly be a deterrent should you ever think the Catholics aren't so bad, this was done under the watch of the archbishops, kind of the way rabbis bless the bombing of school children.
I am familiar with Henry VIII and Elizabeth but I still do not see Ishgard being *more* like England and the Anglican Church than anything else, considering everything I mentioned in terms of the architecture, names, and overall aesthetic. Even the dragons have Nordic names, one of the most important dragon characters being literally Nidhogg (the dragon who eats at Yggdrasil in Norse mythology). Many many characters introduced in Heavensward that are from Ishgard have French-like names, including many NPCs (seriously, look at the Ishgard section of this page as a reference, what about those names feels English? : finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIV_characters )
As far as the architecture and design goes, what you explained is what happened yes. The Anglican Church took over pre-established Catholic churches built in Gothic style, as that is *exactly* what happened to the Canterbury Cathedral. It was a Gothic Cathedral owned by the Catholic Church, only becoming Anglican in the 16th century due to reform.
Ishgard is Gothic, the Vault is Gothic, the buildings are Gothic.
I really think trying to state Ishgard is *more* like England, Tudor, and the Anglican Church when it is clearly designed after Catholic themes, Nordic and French names, and Gothic Architecture is grasping at straws at best and disingenuous at worst. There may very well be pieces of English inspiration in Heavensward, as it is a European inspired Fantasy location, but the facts of what is presented in game are clearly going for a specific goal of representation.