Once there is a surplus of grid-scale solar the export payments during the day will indeed drop/disappear. Perhaps it will vary each half hour, with very low payments during the middle of the day. For now, export is the way to go while it is generous, but batteries and solar diverters (to hot water and EVs) will become useful again in the future.
What about all the times Octopus & others buy at 7p mid-morning but sell this at 24p + ??? Then we are told energy prices are increasing by 10% electricity & nearly 15% gas... Always thought there should just simply be a "credit system" instead, where you export say 3kW excess during the day & obtain 3kW off-peak - if you wish to keep it ultra simple Or maybe 3kW export & receive 1kW back at highest peak times, but this peak export times vs peak consumption complicates a more simpler 1:1 credit system This credit system could be settled every quarter when the billing/Price Cap period begins Octopus (and others), need to tread carefully, energy prices are rising, but others like Eon offer 16.5p export rate Energy companies play catch up with other companies (like Eon's 16.5p, fixed for 1 year) However, if the energy companies slash their possibly too generous export rates, then more people will keep/use their solar energy, exporting less, in turn increasing the midday wholesale price - which is capped by the OFGEM price cap etc... Also PV owners may find they dump more solar into battery/EV during the day & import less at night, which then alters the off-peak demand - which again alters the expected grid demand/excess during the overnight period Of course if the energy companies lower the export rates back to a ridiculous 4p per kW, then few people will be bothering to export, only what they really can't use/dump in their batteries/EV/Immersion heater etc... Or people look to switch to 95% to 100% off-grid & really messes up the energy sector if too many start to shift away from grid exporting TBH, Energy companies were too generous in jumping from 4p or 8p export rates to 15p/16.5p export rates, then offering even more for peak times, creating even more volatility in grid demand/excess. As said, they need to tread carefully as whatever they do will impact or cause/effect the grid capacity & wholesale price by their own actions. They cut export rates, people export less, which alters the wholesale price, which pushes prices up, but energy companies are capped for 3 months, so that cap eventually keeps increasing, which eventually pushes up energy prices, but the PV Owners won't be so impacted because they are using more of their own energy and reducing the amount they import off-peak which in turn creates more excess off-peak when they are trying keep the power stations ticking over etc... (Phew) Personally, the export rates should have been offered at say a 50% peak price - say 12p export vs 24p peak import rate, rather than 15p/16.5p or more export to then buy back at 7p/6.9p off-peak, along with users trying to game the system, requesting a few hours during the day at 7p for EV & charge battery to export at peak times at say 24p export/flux rates It just needs to be simplified more & both the few PV/EV owners gaming the system and the energy companies not being to greedy trying to save/make more & more money from the energy market Where you have too much greed, in the end the bubble eventually has to burst Doesn't really bother me though, I'm finishing my own PV install & was originally never bothered about exporting at lowly 4p per kW, so I have both off-grid & grid tied inverters with option to push the strings through either should I not be able to export to Octopus due to no MCS certification atm. Never really wanted to make as much money as possible exporting loads, just wanted to lower my energy bill first & foremost. If there is reasonable credit export/import system I might be interested, but otherwise I'd be happy to export nothing and go almost fully off-grid instead As for the business side of cutting export rates, think Octopus will really need to watch & reflect how this impacts their own business model. Yes, some companies could have covered big roof spaces on their factories, many schools have covered their sports gym/halls with panels, generating 40kW or more. This could provide a considerable revenue if exporting at 15p, but they pay premium energy rates being a business. Now seeing this export revenue cut, companies use more solar energy themselves, save/store more, export less which impacts Octopus grid excess during the day and less energy being sold to business even at off-peak times Yeah, Octopus need to monitor what impact these recent changes to business export rates make to their own business model before they consider cutting the domestic export rates too much/too soon. Octopus, & others will follow, slash the potential £750 export revenue, PV owners might receive, but this could drastically impact the grid capacity & energy pricing, in turn the price cap etc... Ultimately, this will impact the consumers without Solar the most, as they have no alternative but to pay the increasing energy prices, whilst PV owners will use as much energy as possible if it is not worth their while exporting Yeah, tread carefully Octopus & any adjustments, if needed, should be gradual if reducing energy & export rates
Octopus is not losing money. They are buying it from us at 15p and selling it to another person for 25ish p. They are sacrificing a bit of margin for relatively few hours of the year and in exchange they earn from your consumption during the rest of the year, your daily charges, your gas bill, etc. Energy supplier's money is less and less energy related.
Once there is a surplus of grid-scale solar the export payments during the day will indeed drop/disappear. Perhaps it will vary each half hour, with very low payments during the middle of the day.
For now, export is the way to go while it is generous, but batteries and solar diverters (to hot water and EVs) will become useful again in the future.
What about all the times Octopus & others buy at 7p mid-morning but sell this at 24p + ???
Then we are told energy prices are increasing by 10% electricity & nearly 15% gas...
Always thought there should just simply be a "credit system" instead, where you export say 3kW excess during the day & obtain 3kW off-peak - if you wish to keep it ultra simple
Or maybe 3kW export & receive 1kW back at highest peak times, but this peak export times vs peak consumption complicates a more simpler 1:1 credit system
This credit system could be settled every quarter when the billing/Price Cap period begins
Octopus (and others), need to tread carefully, energy prices are rising, but others like Eon offer 16.5p export rate
Energy companies play catch up with other companies (like Eon's 16.5p, fixed for 1 year)
However, if the energy companies slash their possibly too generous export rates, then more people will keep/use their solar energy, exporting less, in turn increasing the midday wholesale price - which is capped by the OFGEM price cap etc...
Also PV owners may find they dump more solar into battery/EV during the day & import less at night, which then alters the off-peak demand - which again alters the expected grid demand/excess during the overnight period
Of course if the energy companies lower the export rates back to a ridiculous 4p per kW, then few people will be bothering to export, only what they really can't use/dump in their batteries/EV/Immersion heater etc...
Or people look to switch to 95% to 100% off-grid & really messes up the energy sector if too many start to shift away from grid exporting
TBH, Energy companies were too generous in jumping from 4p or 8p export rates to 15p/16.5p export rates, then offering even more for peak times, creating even more volatility in grid demand/excess.
As said, they need to tread carefully as whatever they do will impact or cause/effect the grid capacity & wholesale price by their own actions.
They cut export rates, people export less, which alters the wholesale price, which pushes prices up, but energy companies are capped for 3 months, so that cap eventually keeps increasing, which eventually pushes up energy prices, but the PV Owners won't be so impacted because they are using more of their own energy and reducing the amount they import off-peak which in turn creates more excess off-peak when they are trying keep the power stations ticking over etc...
(Phew)
Personally, the export rates should have been offered at say a 50% peak price - say 12p export vs 24p peak import rate, rather than 15p/16.5p or more export to then buy back at 7p/6.9p off-peak, along with users trying to game the system, requesting a few hours during the day at 7p for EV & charge battery to export at peak times at say 24p export/flux rates
It just needs to be simplified more & both the few PV/EV owners gaming the system and the energy companies not being to greedy trying to save/make more & more money from the energy market
Where you have too much greed, in the end the bubble eventually has to burst
Doesn't really bother me though, I'm finishing my own PV install & was originally never bothered about exporting at lowly 4p per kW, so I have both off-grid & grid tied inverters with option to push the strings through either should I not be able to export to Octopus due to no MCS certification atm.
Never really wanted to make as much money as possible exporting loads, just wanted to lower my energy bill first & foremost.
If there is reasonable credit export/import system I might be interested, but otherwise I'd be happy to export nothing and go almost fully off-grid instead
As for the business side of cutting export rates, think Octopus will really need to watch & reflect how this impacts their own business model.
Yes, some companies could have covered big roof spaces on their factories, many schools have covered their sports gym/halls with panels, generating 40kW or more. This could provide a considerable revenue if exporting at 15p, but they pay premium energy rates being a business.
Now seeing this export revenue cut, companies use more solar energy themselves, save/store more, export less which impacts Octopus grid excess during the day and less energy being sold to business even at off-peak times
Yeah, Octopus need to monitor what impact these recent changes to business export rates make to their own business model before they consider cutting the domestic export rates too much/too soon.
Octopus, & others will follow, slash the potential £750 export revenue, PV owners might receive, but this could drastically impact the grid capacity & energy pricing, in turn the price cap etc...
Ultimately, this will impact the consumers without Solar the most, as they have no alternative but to pay the increasing energy prices, whilst PV owners will use as much energy as possible if it is not worth their while exporting
Yeah, tread carefully Octopus & any adjustments, if needed, should be gradual if reducing energy & export rates
They should not be paying 15p.
5p max.
Should be paying out the same as they charge.
Agreed! The 15p are great for us as consumers but I don't think they can afford it in the long term with such low wholesale prices.
Octopus is not losing money. They are buying it from us at 15p and selling it to another person for 25ish p. They are sacrificing a bit of margin for relatively few hours of the year and in exchange they earn from your consumption during the rest of the year, your daily charges, your gas bill, etc. Energy supplier's money is less and less energy related.