E-Ink Tablets: Which One Would We Buy and Why? (E-Ink Roundtable)
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- Опубліковано 23 вер 2023
- / @kitbetts-masters
/ @brandonkboswell
We’ve planned answers to these two questions, and we don’t know what the others are going to say!
Which device would we actually buy?
Which popular device would you not buy and why?
We have a lot of mutual respect, well at least we did before this discussion. Hopefully we still like each other afterwards. - Розваги
I had my videos on autoplay while dozing and was immediately confused why my favorite three e-ink experts were all talking to each other. BRILLIANT!!! ❤
Very cool of you to do this, thank you all !! It’s helpful and also very fun!
I definitely need another roundtable discussion with you all. Its been a ehile and there havent been any real new devices (aside the A6X2 which you all seem to love) so i would love a casual chat about which devices you are gravitating toward on the daily. Which ones you just genuinely prefer using and why? But also maybe, have you discovered tricks, hacks, or programs that have truly improved your experience on any of the devices? I just need more. LOL
Thanks for a fantastic discussion. I was sat with my rM1 taking notes so loved hearing Voya’s choice! Really interesting hearing Kit’s vehement comments on Lenovo Smart Paper. I sent back my Thinkbook Plus Twist 4th generation yesterday after a week of using it. I wanted an eInk laptop I could take away from home but the experience was awful. I’ll stick to my Mac with a Dasung Paperlike HD and see what Boox bring out in October after listening to you 3. Thanks again.
You guys are like my holy trinity of e-ink tablet infornation.
As a fountain pen user, I can absolutely understand why the writing feel of the supernote would be a dealbreaker for Brandon. If the angle he is writing at, being a left-handed overwriter, is making the pen actually snag the screen protector, I completely get why that would be a major deal-breaker. A nib snagging paper would be a reason I wouldn't pick a particular fountain pen no matter how good it felt in the hand, how popular it was, etc. I wasn't super surprised by your pick for which device you would choose. I don't think it's as out of left field as everyone else does if someone's been watching your videos for a long time. It's never been a secret how much you love the original remarkable, and I completely relate to the reluctance to commit to a different brand's device when you know they launch lots of devices or have a refresh announced. It's why it took me so long to settle on a retro gaming device. This was a super interesting watch. Be interesting to see some discussions of group thoughts on software improvements you'd all suggest for different devices, because I think the parts of this video where it veered into that were very interesting.
Great discussion - I'm in Australia so couldn't catch this one live, thanks for the replay. I'll look into getting an insurance policy for my Boox ultra C - thanks for the tip from Voya
Really enjoyed this non-live ;-) Thank you all three!!
I have the Tab Ultra, and I love it. I find it has a great personality. I use it mostly for reading e-books and typing on MS Word. I really like the fact that I can use a 1TB SD card. I think it was good advice to wait for the new products in October. I wish I waited for my purchase because soon after I bought the Tab Ultra Oynx came out with the Tab Ultra C, which I would much rather have but can't justify buying now. I guess I'll wait about five years before I get a new e-ink tablet and see what technology they have. The color will probably be even better. I'm glad I saw this stream and learned that Oynx usually comes out with new products in October.
Thank you for your discussions!
Oh, too bad, I missed you live. I enjoyed your stream as much as the last one.
At the moment I'm watching your channels up and down to decide which device to buy.
In terms of my use case (reading, using pdf with hyperlinks, sketching, note taking) I decided to buy a Kindle Scribe. In terms of price/performance alone (Prime Day 2 is in October), the device is already interesting. Amazon has already released good updates in the last few months and I hope there will be more to come.
I would also like to thank you all for your many informative videos. I am already looking forward to the next Lifestream.
Edit 03.10.23
I made up my mind and purchased today a Supernote A5X. I was worried about data security. My notebooks will have very private things in them and only with Supernote did I feel that my data still belonged to me. It yes even a complete offline operation is possible. In addition, I noticed (after intensively watching Voja's videos 😃) how much Supernote maintain their devices and further develop the platform. I really like their sustainable approach. Now I'm waiting very eagerly for my shipment from France 😃.
Outstanding discussion guys. I laughed; I cried; I wondered if I will ever settle on the near perfect device.
- I love the Scribes screen and smooth yet textured “screen protector”. The pen is the best. The backlight is awesome. The build is incredible. Thin and well constructed. Note: I like the stylus with my SuperNote. The “Home”, “Library”, “Notebook” organization is clunky. The note feature is “slapped” on to kindle. Not designed into it.
- I don’t think I will be able to use a reflective device much longer without a backlight, due to growing eye issues. This makes me sad for SuperNote options unfortunately.
- A4 at 300 DPI would be incredible on SuperNote or RM3.
It would be interesting to hear what you would choose if budget wasn't a consideration?
Listening to perfectionists is somehow relaxing for me.😁
Fun! I’ve got to say, for me, nothing beats the Tabx for real estate. So awesome! Now, Comixology could be better (longing for a Tabx color), but Kindle in 13.3”, PDF reading and note taking can’t be beat.
As an engineer, over the last few weeks investigating the rabbit hole of e-ink devices I have come to the conclusion that there is no single device that is "better" and I'm finding it hard to decide. The Supernote software is incredible and very well designed. Boox has a cool new device but the darn screen flashes too much when turning pages. The Scribe probably has the best hardware. I like the Boox Note Air 3C but I am going to wait for awhile and see if Supernote releases something new and maybe has a better color display than the Boox.
A good topic for discussion is the different software approaches to doing things, regardless of the hardware. For example, Supernote has the star system for searching. I would like to see direct comparisons of features such as that, and how each company approaches doing the same basic tasks their own way. To me, that would be the deciding factor. No matter how cool the screen looks, if it's difficult to find notes or hard to link things, how good it looks doesn't matter. It's about usefulness and workflow. FWIW, personally I am not looking for a notebook replacement. I can use my pen on my Surface Pro but the SP is not optimized for note taking (plus I'd have to use something like OneNote). I want a device I can use in my studio to keep track of mixing and mastering projects (without having to take photos of hardware knobs to remember/recall setting). Being able to make templates for things like that are very important to me for such purposes. I also have a great number of personal study projects and I also manage about 7 websites. Being able to write and sketch things, recall them and view them on other devices is of high value to me. In view of the above, I would really like to see a list of functions/uses and then a shootout of how each device handles those points so we all can see the differences between the software.
Sorry for the long comment, lol. Thanks very much.
Very nice discussion. Could you put links to the others' youtube channels or at least identify them beyond 'Kit' and 'Brandon'?
youtube.com/@BrandonKBoswell
youtube.com/@KitBetts-Masters
(For anyone else who is looking for that info)
Thanks. I have placed that in the description, I thought that the Commonly shared video description already did include that.
As for how I refer to them, well, they are so well placed that all one needs to do is to type "kit eink" or "Brandon eink" in youtube search and you'll see their channels as first results.
Man get a podcast! Love your content guys!
Thanks!
Thank you very much for your generosity!
What do you guys think about the Sony DPT-S1 and derivitives given its age? i have used it a TON for long hand writing and notes. I recently bought a Supernote A5X and i am sooooo in love. Everything i want and more.
Directly to PDF was a big feature for this device and it supported WebDAV for syncing. If it had a ceramic tip like the Supernote, i would not have bought a Supernote.
I have had my DPT-S1 for nearly 10 years, if the battery held up and had a ceramic nib, i would have been set.
I really enjoyed this live discussion, thank you @MyDeepGuide, @KitBetts-Masters and @BrandonKBoswell for doing this. I found it very interesting to see how different our individual use cases for these devices are! I am not looking to replace my laptop as my productivity and programming workhorse and I still need my iPad as several apps I use regularly are not available for Android. So the Boox Tab range is not for me.
My use case is writing notes, annotating pdfs and converting handwritten notes to text to copy over into Obsidian. As I enjoy the tactile nature of writing and get easily distracted by things like Facebook and UA-cam etc, an e-ink writer is the perfect device to add to my toolbox. I hope to buy the A4 Supernote when released but as that could be ages away, I decided to buy the Boox Note Air 2 Plus (used) in the meantime. I like this device (despite some software quirks) but the behaviour of Onyx disappoints me. To discontinue the Boox Leaf 2 so soon after release and without warning was a dirty trick imo.
i am using a tab ultra c for some big typing wroks and heavy reading. Tab mini c to instead my samsung fold5 phone at home. I have sold my fold phone and switch back to my old iphone. my eye feels so much better than before.
Which one do you recommend for language learning?
I think I want something that doesn't exist yet... combo computer + e-ink tab. Still getting a lay of the land, but I think Boox is the closest on the e-ink end, and probably Surface on the computer end - can you confirm?
Any videos diving into case for e-ink vs computer with writing abilities?
So I've only recently fallen into the rabbit hole of e-ink devices, and I'm so glad I found you all! I've been fascinated with e-ink since I owned a Pebble color watch, and loved it! If any of you would like to get rid of a device you don't like anymore, just let me know :) Seriously though, so glad I found you all.
I still use my rM1 and LOVE it. My only problem with using it now is that I now need more contrast than I did when I bought it and more light. My eyes are just worse.
Regarding supernote pdf sync to google drive: to go from pdf format to text cant use just use pandoc? It can probably be automated too.
I have an old kindle, but I find myself using low brightness. I’m guessing I’ll be ok with grayish white
i am still very happy about my supernote :-)
Security: Tab Ultra-C is Android 12 (good) & it gets OS updates now, but I'm concerned w how frequently it gets security updates.
Android, like all OS's, is under assault constantly. Google keeps the Play Store pretty clean but stuff does get through.
The multi-usability of the Tab Ultra C means I'll use it for email. I WANT to be able to download books from wherever. So I can't have an isolated device that's got rock-solid security: security will always be an issue.
We NEED frequent, ongoing security updates! Does Boox appear to provide this?
LOVE Supernote's replaceable battery! Wish Boox would do this.
Title: "E-Ink Tablets: Which One Would We Buy and Why? (E-Ink Roundtable)"
**[**00:00** - **02:30**](#**00:00**)** - **Introduction and Participants**:
- The roundtable begins with introductions from Kit, Voya, and Brandon. Kit opens the discussion, welcoming viewers and introducing the format of the discussion. The focus is on answering two key questions: which E-Ink tablet they would buy and which popular device they would not buy and why.
- Kit mentions the mutual respect among the reviewers and hopes to maintain it throughout the discussion. The roundtable aims to leverage their extensive experience with E-Ink tablets to provide insights and recommendations based on different use cases.
**[**02:31** - **05:00**](#**02:31**)** - **Diverse Use Cases and Opinions**:
- The participants acknowledge that there is no single best E-Ink tablet for everyone. Each device serves different user needs. Kit points out that the three reviewers have different use cases, which will be valuable in highlighting the strengths and weaknesses of each tablet.
- Brandon mentions the flexibility of the discussion format, allowing for in-depth analysis and audience interaction through Q&A sessions after each presentation.
**[**05:01** - **08:30**](#**05:01**)** - **Battery Life Considerations**:
- Kit emphasizes the importance of battery life in E-Ink tablets, noting that some devices like the Remarkable 2 offer superior battery performance. He mentions the two-week battery life of the Remarkable 2 as a significant advantage for users who prioritize longevity.
- The discussion touches on how different users value battery life differently, with some willing to trade off for other features.
**[**08:31** - **12:00**](#**08:31**)** - **Color Display Preferences**:
- Kit shares his preference for the Tab Ultra C, not for its color display but for the background quality, which he finds easier on his eyes. He mentions that while some users might find the low contrast too dark, it works well for him.
- This segment highlights the subjective nature of device preferences, emphasizing that what works for one person may not work for another.
**[**12:01** - **15:00**](#**12:01**)** - **Application and Google Account Requirements**:
- The discussion shifts to the usability of applications on E-Ink tablets. Voya clarifies that while Books devices do not require a Google account to function, having one is necessary to access the full range of Google Play Store apps.
- They discuss the pros and cons of using Google services, including the flexibility of side-loading apps versus the convenience of direct access through the Play Store.
**[**15:01** - **18:30**](#**15:01**)** - **Supernote's Local Data Storage Advantage**:
- Brandon highlights the Supernote's advantage of local data storage, which does not rely on cloud services. This feature is crucial for professional environments where data privacy is paramount.
- He explains that the Supernote can screen share within a local network, making it suitable for organizations with strict data privacy requirements.
**[**18:31** - **22:00**](#**18:31**)** - **Remarkable 2's Writing and Integration Capabilities**:
- Kit discusses the Remarkable 2's excellent writing experience and its integration capabilities with Google Docs and other knowledge management tools. He values the ability to write reviews and directly export them to these applications.
- The conversation touches on the cost-effectiveness of the Remarkable 2, especially when considering refurbished models and third-party styluses to reduce expenses.
**[**22:01** - **25:00**](#**22:01**)** - **Performance and File Compatibility**:
- Voya and Brandon compare the performance of different E-Ink tablets, specifically regarding large text files and PDFs. They note that while some devices handle these well, others lag behind in terms of speed and user experience.
- The Supernote's support for various file formats and its overall performance in professional settings are highlighted.
**[**25:01** - **28:30**](#**25:01**)** - **Tablet Value and Investment**:
- The panelists discuss the value proposition of different E-Ink tablets. They mention how refurbished Remarkable devices can be a cost-effective choice and the importance of considering long-term investment based on specific needs.
- Kit emphasizes that while some tablets may have higher upfront costs, their features and performance can justify the investment for certain users.
**[**28:31** - **32:00**](#**28:31**)** - **Device Design and Usability**:
- The discussion moves to the design and usability aspects of the tablets. The participants mention features like the buttons on the devices, the feel of writing with a stylus, and the overall user experience.
- Brandon notes that he prefers the friction and response of the Supernote's screen for sketching, which matches his personal preferences.
**[**32:01** - **35:00**](#**32:01**)** - **Audience Interaction and Q&A**:
- The roundtable includes a segment for audience questions. Participants address queries about specific devices, their features, and performance.
- One question about the performance of the Tab Ultra C with large text documents leads to a discussion on its handling of extensive word counts and file sizes.
**[**35:01** - **38:00**](#**35:01**)** - **Future of E-Ink Tablets**:
- The panelists speculate about future developments in E-Ink technology. They discuss potential improvements like higher resolution screens and better integration with other devices and services.
- Kit shares his dream device: a larger, higher-resolution Remarkable Pro that could serve as a perfect desk companion.
**[**38:01** - **40:00**](#**38:01**)** - **Conclusion and Final Recommendations**:
- The roundtable concludes with final thoughts and recommendations from each participant. They reiterate that the best E-Ink tablet depends on individual needs and preferences.
- Kit, Voya, and Brandon each summarize their top choices, providing a balanced perspective for viewers to consider based on their specific use cases.
Buy them all; they all do things slightly differently; and they all have something that is kinda a bit better than others in some areas.
but if you are the average joe that just take notes, every single device does that; so I find silly at times when someone say "I need a device to take notes; which one is the best"; and expect that someone almost convince them that one is better than another, based on features they may never use.
Nobody should be convinced to buy a device; and if someone does not know which device to buy, that is the first sign you don't need to buy something :D
So which one do you recomend ? because you see I need to take note.😂
@@monkeylife2318 They are equivalent :D Some have more features than others, and for some... Less is more ;) I would rate them in this order: Supernote, then Books then Remarkable 2 then Amazon Scribe
I watched the vod now. Since you asked. It was 7:30PM on a Saturday.
I like the type folio but the only thing I don't like about it is that every paragraph you have to change the size of the font. There are spaces between paragraphs which I don't like. I have starting using my supernote as it doesn't have spaces between paragraphs. You can also indent the first line. So I convert it to an epub to read in remarkable.
if supernote is not included in the table, it will be so weird, its like talking about DC without mentioning Batman
The chipset in the Lenovo is RK3566, which CPU-Z misdetects as the RK3066.
Still a poor chipset, but one from 2020, 22nm, not 2012 and 40nm.
30:14 @MyDeepGuide I like the sound of Remarkable 1 for ~$100, so I looked. The only place I can find any Remarkable 1 units is eBay (US), and at more than twice that price. Did you drive up the price? 😂
I hope not. Have you tried looking at your local ads, not the scalping prices on eBay?
Anything you need to know or ask this is the team that you would want to call. 😊
Voja am I right to assume you learned Englisg as a forign language? can you tell me a little bit about your Englush learning background. I've never watched any of your videos without thinking about how fluently you speak English and how actively you try to integrate new vocabulary items into your speech. I'm really curious to know more
It would be the combination of:
1. Me growing up with the English Dictionary in my lap at 6 years old because I was playing the text based adventure video games on my C64
2. Non-subtitled cartoons that would be shown on the TV, also when I was a kid.
But it was mostly the C64 (or to be more precise C128) and then other video games that were the main driving force.
By the time we started learning English in school, I already knew everything in the curriculum, and would learn further by watching more advanced movies without subtitles, and reading books and magazines in English. By the age of 19 I moved off to another country to start working on a video game development team and I started using English as primary communication language on a daily basis.
@@MyDeepGuide❤❤Τhank you so much for the elaborate response, detailed and to the point as always, a deep guide 😅😅
What about the apps? I am just to Brandon, and as an RM2 user, it is the app suite that works flawlessly on all my devices. Boox, not so much, and Supernote as well. I have had all these other units, and the supporting app suites are not as good - not even close to Remarkable apps.
Really? So the synchronization works well for your Remarkable after the 3.6 update?
I am having no issues, I struggled when trying to view notes through the Ratta app on my phone, etc. @@MyDeepGuide
I write something in my notebook and leave it open and it updates in the Remarkable app. I do not have to close or exit the notebook on my Remarkable to get it to sync.
I couldn’t tell how you were getting the boxes without typefolio what did you click
Engage the Text tool "T" and then tap on the menu icon (horizontal lines) that will be to the left of the text typing area. From there you can choose the different formatting options, one if which are the check boxes.
@@MyDeepGuide thank you so much
Am I the only person concerned that Boox is still using Android 11, and we are days away from Android 14? What does that say about security and longevity?
It doesn't say much about longevity. I still have a Samsung tab that is 10 years old running on Android 5.5.1. It is mainly apps that will stop supporting older versions, but hardly any of these are relevant for e-ink. Security of course is a totally different issue. From the beginning I have not used my Booxes nor my Supernote for any sensitive, private stuff and certainly not for sensitive work data.
I own a Remarkable2 and Boox Note Air2. I don't use my Boox device. I prefer my Remarkable2. If I were to buy another device I am really liking and looking forward to seeing the new Supernote A4 with linux OS.
I keep coming back to Remarkable after trying Scribe, Boox, Supernote etc. I'd love for Remarkable 3 to have the front light option and a bit more processing power, that's my main gripe with it.
Happy to hear supernote is making a bigger option cool- just got the remarkable 2 first ink tab from paper - as a writer who does not want to be plugged in all the time and yet stacks of notebooks be gone
I just want an e-ink I can write by hand and fill a word document. As a writer some of these do too much and I would LOVE the remarkable if it did that live and didn't make copy's of documents instead of cloud sync. I don't really see value in another functions (for me).
Supernote can do this function :)
BTW I am surprised how none of you pointed out the fact that Boox market their ultra devices as being "faster" but only for scrolling, when Kit was making a poem to how good Boox is.
There is basically close to 0 gain to have fast or ultrafast using 3rd party applications in terms of typing or using the pen or even using the app itself; beside animations and scrolling.
If you give the Tab Ultra to someone that have no clue about the difference, and switch modes while using 3rd party apps, they cannot tell the difference at all, unless they watch a video or scroll a webpage... Nobody ever point that out, and instead you just hear how amazing the GPU is. I understand being "fans" of that tech; but if someone is considering to buy a device, they may get the wrong idea that the GPU make things faster even for 3rd party apps in all areas, which is not true.
The dedicated GPU speeds up and cleans up the display capability of the device, system wide. This includes 3rd party apps, of course.
As for writing, this will depend on the 4rd party developer, wether or not the app developer has made a version of their app that is optimized for e-ink screen refresh methodology or not. In 99.99% this will not be the case, as eink devices are simply not popular enough for the developers to do that, and there is very little that the device manufacturers can do about that.
Boox employs a cheat method that enables users to use Evernote and OneNote apps, to a degree, bit that is just a stop-gap measure, not a real solution to the problem.
@@MyDeepGuide In my experience with the device, there is virtually no difference using 3rd party apps. The typing speed when typing is the same, the writing speed with the pen is the same, the scrolling speed is mostly the same, the responsiveness of the UI is the same.
Minimal differences only between the HD mode and any of the 3 faster modes; but we are talking of very small differences to be honest. Unless you get a browser and start scrolling heavily (which is not the case for most 3rd party apps, that are mainly working on static screens), the difference is really minimal, and I would be hard pressed to justify a GPU enabled for that (I wish you could turn that off and gain a couple of days of battery life to be honest).
Agree on the fact that eink are not that common so developers do not optimize their apps for it; and the fact that each company have different APIs does not make the landscape more friendly either... If you want to make an optimized app you need a SN version, a Boox version, a RM2 version... Because they all use different APIs for their pen rendering, even if they all use the same screen (they don't but even if they would, that would that would not work).
What could they do? Develop in house some good apps, or reach out to 3rd party devs and make apps version for eink that are optimized through partnership. If the expectation is that you need 3 GPUs to work around the limitations... We are not going that far to be honest.
Or make the system open so people can write their apps for your system. I think only Boox has done something like that, but their documentation and overall offer for developers is close to disappointing, as the repository is not even maintained consistently, and their OS is not even open source... So there is no incentive in writing software for Boox devices when it is running on closed OS.
@@fcf8269 do I understand right what you say that, actually, in the end, 3rd party apps remain not really usable?
@@vincentaravantinos5751 That is correct, with a caveat: the ones that use the pen as input to draw are the ones that have issues.
If you are fine to use your finger as a regular tablet, then 3rd party apps are usable for most part, beside the color scheme that sometimes do not match well with what you see on screen. I used Trello and it is as usable as on a 10 year old tablet basically; and same apply for most of the more intensive apps where you need to drag things around.
Miro and any other app that use the mouse on a computer, would really benefit from the pen input, but sadly the lag is unbearable. Onenote is somehow working but the caveat is that what you see in real time is not what you get, until the screen refresh; and same apply for Evernote.
So the TL:DR is that 3rd party apps may run OK, depending from the app itself; but if you plan to replace your laptop or high tier tablet, unless all you do is write email and word documents and things like this, you won't get much usage out of these devices.
Then of course to each their own... Some people like painful experiences, and are willing to put up with sub-par workflow in exchange for something else they really like; so it is always a matter of trade-offs. Personally until I can use the pen in 3rd party apps to draw, write and have access to what my computer can do in the same capacity; I won't find usage in the professional area for eink devices.
As note taking devices, they are all great; but that is where I draw the line honestly; they are not productivity replacement devices, not even close for me.
There is another important question you have not answered (in the introduction at least): which pen/stylus would we buy?
Can someone write a summary for folks who dont want to watch a 2h video 😅
Kit went with the Tab Ultra Color. He likes the shading of the color capabilities, but what he really appreciates is the ability to run applications, blurring the line between E-ink and full-blown tablet. He's willing to sacrifice battery life for that versatility.
Voja teased us with the Supernote A5X first, then the Tab Ultra (non-C), before ultimately revealing his surprising choice of the Remarkable One. For him, it boils down to the value, durability, and "persistence" of the RM1 he bought in 2017. The feature-to-cost ratio is too good to pass up. Note that this is based _purely_ on writing; he doesn't care about the tablet-like features that heavily informed Kit's choice, for example. He also mentioned his reluctance to buy a more cutting edge device when the manufacturer is on the verge of releasing a new version, like Ratta and the pending/rumored Supernote A4X, A5X Slim, and A5X2 and A6X2. Parenthetically, I got the impression he would have chosen a Supernote, the E-ink device he currently uses most, if the A5X2 or AX4 were out and is as good as they're anticipated to be. Oh, and while he absolutely appreciates the versatility of the Ultra, it just isn't "sexy" enough.
Brandon chose the Remarkable 2, primarily for the ability to sketch and take notes quickly, and seamlessly disseminate them via export and screen share. He also likes single page scrolling-- that he's not limited to a prescribed page length while creating. His biggest issue with the Supernote is writing feel.
@@dlj2443 man thank you. 1min read, best optimization of my time.
Voja bro, reapect for the upload. But please, use better microphone next time, your's was by far worst and was at times difficult to understand what You were saying.
Mic was fine and we all heard it fine when testing, but apparently during the stream, my internet connection crapped out, and decided to lower the bit rate of audio by quite a lot. There is zero indication of something like that while doing it, so yeah, one of the issues of doing live streams, things can go wrong :)
@@MyDeepGuide Well, some things can't be predicted, right..? Like that... or Your selection for example 😄 I think everybody's jaw dropped at Your picking RM1. Biggest shocker since the beginning of Your channel, definitely...