"It's fun one time" or "it's fun the first clear" comes close to describing most encounters as a static healer, because really you mostly get action variety when things are going wrong.
I really wish they’d make healer DPS just a bit more interesting, even visually. It doesn’t need more buttons if they’re worried, RDM’s spell finisher combo revolves around like 2 buttons but feels so satisfying. More interesting healer DPS would make all the content that’s not high end more fun too.
@@OhNoTheFace It's a design issue with party based dungeon crawlers/MMOs in general though, not just FFXIV Healing is literally there for when things go wrong. Or at least the healing that is interesting and dynamic is the healing you do when things go wrong. Heal checks are signposted/routine. Spot healing individual party members when they screw up mechanics is fun and reactive and feels like there's a bit of skill expression to it. Once everyone knows a boss, that's usually mostly gone. I don't know if it's possible to make proactive healing, on the other hand, more fun and interesting... FFXIV's solution seemed to be to make healers mostly damage-dealers too so they're juggling roles to get that dynamism, but our damage rotations are back to pressing like two buttons at this point so... that's out the window.
@@sergel02 imo they should just give every healer a 3-part gcd combo. Doesnt change *anything* gameplay-wise but atleast provides new animations to look at
The big thing about the 2 minute windows now is it forces this play optimally or get fucked kind of design. There's no "oh I fucked up my rotation and missed this buff, maybe I can hit the next one" and maybe you lose a bit, but nothing dramatic Now, you can lose so much damage and there's just no way to try to gain that damage back. Also. with most rotations being 1-2 minutes and raid buffs being also 2 minutes, mistakes can rarely be fully recovered from. Most jobs also don't have any way of resetting or jumping to some other part of their rotation to try to realign things. It's a design that hurts casual players because they make mistakes and frustrates experienced players because there's very few ways to optimize. People that advocate for moving away from the 2 minute buff windows need to make sure to bring up that even though this design choice was to presumably make things easier for more casual players, its had the opposite effect.
casual players don't even know what a 2min buff window is, it hurts no one. If anything the correct terminology in my mind is that is just becomes boring everything is "the same" regardless of jobs, you burst at 2mins and you do nothing while you wait for the next 2 mins XD
I completely disagree with this take. There are 2 minute windows now, but there were still buff alignment windows before the EW change. It's just that they would end up aligning around 0 and 6 minutes due to the varied combination of 60s, 90s, 120s, and 180s buffs. This meant that before the shift to 2-min windows, it was EVEN WORSE if you misplayed or missed the two big windows in the fight. On the other hand, now it's spread out to once every 2 mins for 5-6 burst windows, triple the amount we had before.
@@ExadraLP the issue is if you fucked up your 0 or 6 minute combination you could still try to realign with some of the other buffs at odds minutes, now you cannot do that. there's also no optimizing around times other than 2 minutes windows, you don't save resources for trick for example.
I don't agree with moving away from 2 minute buff windows, HOWEVER the opinion presented here is quite valid to the point I would sustain it even if it's not something I'm too inclined for, but presented this way is an argument that makes alot of sense imho
Exactly. I'm a casual player, so 1) I don't find savage content fun at all. Heck, I don't find the Endwalker trials to be fun at all. The bosses have way too much HP and the battles just drag on forever; and 2) I don't like to play savage content because it's too unforgiving, and if you don't play perfectly many people get upset.
The problem with back-loaded encounters like P7S is that when they are new, it’s a war of attrition just to get to those difficult mechanics in order to practice them. Can’t tell you how many “Harvest Progs” I joined that often wiped at or before the purgation mechanic and never even saw harvest to practice it.
It stings the other way too, for when you have a group genuinely at harvest prog and is solid on the rest of the fight. There's just such lengthy repetition to get to the point you want to practice at and it just...ugh. It's gonna haunt me for a while.
I think p7 upholds the curse quite well, this fight is literally e7 in terms of structure without the interesting add phase. Painfully slow? Check. A "hard" mechanic that is able to be easily cheesed? (purgation) Check. A BS final phase that we will probably skip with gear? Check. Nothing really happens for like 7 minutes? Check.
I mean you can say that but the other extreme is P8S what essencialy is a gigantic dumpster fire and absolutely crushes any hopes of clearing. Difficulty yeah? But no need to got to the moon, that was borderline ultimate. P7S might seems a bit "underwhelming" and slow, but at the same time it´s a breather before the impending doom that is the final fight.
P8s being overtuned is probably a good thing, if the dps check wasn't so tight from the start then i don't think the issue of class balance would have been discussed nearly as much
We've all done the "make a decision in the heat of the moment" that we regret, very happy you had a team that was understand and everyone was able to come out happy with the results
for me I really like the second half of p8s because adjusting your rotation and making those small optimizations in a class to really deal with the downtime the best you can is a lot of fun to me
So far I’m really liking this tier. Cleared P5, progging P6, both in Party Finder. Excited to continue going through it - it feels challenging for me, and like it’s pushing me to be a better player. Definitely feels like a step up from P1-4. Appreciate the vid, the review, and the transparency. Good luck in the upcoming weeks with all the work coming up!
THANK YOU I do appreciate the comment about the extra testing leading to the overtuning, the analogy of tuning for performance of a static at 8 week reclears (or even 4 week reclears) was perfect for it. Like the skill issue joke from their patch notes is funny the first time but like got old fast.
They had one wall boss before who did something interesting... and his name was Neo Exdeath. Because he actually teleported between spots and had PB AOEs that forced melees to break away from the boss. He also had a hitbox that was actually relatively small instead of being half the arena in all directions. The devs need to bring back smaller hitboxes, and this is coming from a tank/melee main
One important point in the balance discussion that should be even more on the forefront in my opinion is the melee discrepancy. Nowadays fights are designed around melee uptime so much, that it has become a non issue for like 99% of the time. Two out of five fights are static wall bosses with hitboxes so big you could essentially remove them entirely and it would not even change much. The other three Bosses have hitboxes so big that you can perform basically every mechanic in melee range without any real adjustments or player input. So melees these days are essentially playing physical ranged for the vast majority of the fights. But the damage does not reflect that. The dps gap between melees and caster/ranged is huge. Bigger than even individual differences within the roles themselves. And this is in my opinion the biggest balance issue the game has at the moment. Melees get rewarded with amasing damage that they had to work for in the past. Nowadays not nearly as much. But SE is not showing the same care for casters for example. Running from one platform to the other five times in a row in P7S is apparently not enough skillexpression for a BLM or a RDM. It just feels so bad doing all the work of preplaning your movement tools and adjusting it to the order of stack/spread on the fly to not even deal comparable damage to the melee running next to me who does not have to think about their core mechanic at any point in that fight at all.
Meanwhile the MCH in the corner with the gun to their own head, the BRD wondering if they can make a noose with their own harp, and the Dancer just looking longingly into the Abyss. I don't think there's anyone feeling more pain than us ranged players.
This is the first tier I've taken a break from Savage since Stormblood (RDM Main). Honestly, I picked a good tier to sit out. Not because it's bad, but like seeing how other friends are struggling, plus how hectic even the Normal fights have been this patch, and for how -very- unwanted my main is in PF, I guess it's a good time for me to sit out and just popcorn and cheer on my friends. But I reeeeeally hope SE can address the horrible spot casters are in right now sometime soon.
Yes, melees have easier uptime. But you're conveniently omitting that BLM got given plenty of tools to instantly cast and negate their innate mobility weakness. RDM is mobile and has dual cast + acceleration. SMN hardcasts less than SAM. Besides, as a whole, casters don't have to manage their mana anymore. SMN, RDM and BLM will NEVER not be able to cast a spell.. unless you're taking into account resurrection spamming SMN and RDM... which is luxury utility that melees don't have. BLM doesn't even have mana per se, it's just their main job resource painted under a different coat. ALL jobs have an easier time, not just melees. Now, when you say "casters" only one of them was designed to be a carry. That's BLM, obviously. And yes, BLM could use some buffs but, again, BLM ALSO has an easier time keeping uptime nowadays. SMN and RDM always should be on the lower spectrum of damage because of how easy to play they are and because of all the utility they offer. BRD and DNC aren't designed to be carries either, and MCH as we all know is a mess right now. Needs a complete rework tbh. I think you and all the people ranting about melees completely miss the point. ALL jobs have it easier nowadays. That's not where the issue lies. The issue (if that can be considered one) is that only melees, BLM and MCH were designed to be carries and, thus, top damage meters. It's not the bosses' hitboxes, it's the way Square have designed their classes. If you don't like doing lower damage, then play a job that was designed to be a carry. If you want RDM to top damage, be wary that this means the job would have to be entirely reworked. In a nutshell: no more resurrection, no more or much less utility and a more complex rotation. That's how Square decides who gets to do more damage, and that's where melees work (yes, they do work for their damage in spite of your spite) for theirs. They're still harder to play optimally than SMN, RDM or DNC for instance. Only BLM should run alongside melees in terms of damage.
I think the error of P7S (aside from backloaded fight) is that the hitbox being that big, kindof remove all uptime / movement necessity. if from time to time the boss popped on add in the middle of the 3 platform while we had to doge the eggs, I think it could have been very nice.
I actually super enjoy P7S. I think the use of the stage and variety of combinations keep it fresh, whereas P6S is just one or two mechanics remixed endlessly to where I get lost.
The issue is with enough gear you can basically skip the last 3 harvests, and without the last 3 harvests, the fight is actually really easy. For the good groups, p7s doesn't feel like a savage fight once you skip harvests. For the casual groups, it's frustrating to wipe near the end, when it's such a boring first 80% of the fight. I think the key issue is that the hard part of the fight is at the end.
This tier as a whole feels more like a healer tier, all the bleeds, tank buster bleed, twin buster bleed, raid wide bleed, and then asking u to move all over places while u casting stuff... Healer tier this one
I kind of wish more of P6 was like Cachexia, like if Ptera Ixou was the main raidwide and throughout the fight you were swapping Chelic and Glossal Resistance debuffs constantly, maybe your Glossomorph or Chelomorph debuff would affect you unless you "purged" out the parasite by taking the side of Ptera Ixou that would kill it, like antiparasitic treatment or extreme treatment like chemotherapy or radiation therapy to kill cancer cells. Anything other than the Polyominoid panels because the fight felt so repetitive, the different Sigmas would just blend together in my head.
I really love how there silent agreement on adjustment. As someone who mainly pug (only static to assist fc or friends) it really enjoyable when total strangers will have act in unison. P5S was fun as well, prolly the only fast pace opening savage since Eden. Which is kinda weird how slow p6s and p7s was. P7S and P8S dps check was really tight for non-overmeld crafted gear compared to P3S and P4S though i really hoped they dont do high dps check requirement for that meta class become pre requisite.
The first tier always has a more loose DPS checks because people are still learning to play with the new job changes that came with the expansion launch. By the 2nd tier, people are expected to know their new rotations well, so the checks are tighter.
My thoughts: P5S: Great Start, Great Fight P6S: Relaxing Fight, Fun Break P7S: Backloaded, but mechanically fun due to variations in resolving mechanics(for now) P8S P1: Fun Doorboss, hate looky mechs but w/e P*S P2: Great Transition, haven't cleared yet
I pretty much agree with all of these opinions. 5 was a great first fight. Not as good as O9S which I think holds the crown as the best first fight, but I think top 3 is fair. It had a pretty wide variety of mechanics to it and largely built on itself. I wish they would have continued that theme for the rest of the tier. 6 was meh. Honestly if you look back I think second fights of raid tiers have the worst track record. You have a boss that never moves (although that does apply to a lot of raid bosses even this tier, it's not a good thing) which is basically a striking dummy and she basically does 1 mechanic at a time, sometimes combined with the front/back or left/right cleave. The best thing about 7 was the arena. I'm glad they can make fights that aren't circles and squares, but I feel like the first half of the fight didn't make all that much use of it. Also I'm just going to say as a tank that they forgot to have tank damage in the second half of the fight (no busters in the entire second half), and that combined with it being a wall boss with maybe the biggest hitbox in the game didn't make it exactly engaging for tanks. I feel like they could have cut like 3 minutes out of the fight but kept everything in it at a faster pace and it would be much more enjoyable. Haven't actually finished 8 yet but I definitely agree the door boss is the best part of the tier. I want to specifically mention that they made a tankbuster you can't invuln and ignore the swap on, which is a nice change, but they haven't really done anything to stop you from just kitchen sinking 2 of them. Busters in a lot of fights in general need the frequency upped a bit. The mechanics all come out quickly and don't give you time to get bored like some fights do. I wish they didn't nerf the dps check, gear would let people clear eventually. If anything they should have buffed the non-meta classes that aren't tanks if they were concerned. Also as a tank I just want to point out that every buster this tier has a bleed, which is probably a way for Superbolide and Hallowed to actually have a benefit to compete with the short cooldowns on Holmgang and Living Dead. It doesn't make up for it all that much but I guess it's a start.
Hallowed and superbolade stop having an effect on the bleed once they wear off for some reason. It's counter intuitive since that exactly NOT how all other damage is calculated in the game. Also, I 100% agree with your assessment that they should have just left the damage checks and buffed the lower preforming classes in terms of dps. Ome of the DPS classes are just lagging behind so badly.
@@Dunnston170 Hallowed and Superbolide don't stop the bleed after the invuln falls off, but the invuln will still last like half the duration of the bleed. I think it should mitigate the DoT in some way if not nullify it entirely though if they actually want Hallowed and Superbolide to compete with Holmgang and Living Dead. Like 3-4 fewer bleed ticks isn't worth an extra minute or more on the cooldown most of the time.
can agree on the p5 its actually my favorite out of recent memory besides e9s also im glad you decided to shed some light on what was going on the raid group is really fun to watch imo there are alot of streamers including yourself i enjoy watching for ff14 content and seeing you patch things up was nice not to sure why people wanted to call it alot of drama like everyone in the group said shit happens and sometimes its out of our control no need to be crazy upset over it all
Both P6S and 7S utilize the arena a lot, which is nice, but I almost wonder if they utilize the arena maybe too much, and they felt like they had to slow down the pace of the fight or only through a few different variations of mechanics at you. Its a bit of tricky problem for p6s at least, theoretically you could have those aoes spawn wherever, but it would be horrendously frustrating if there were too many variations just due to how relatively limited your vision is. Its a shame they couldn't find a better sweet spot between too easy and frustrating. Not to mention limit cut is flood ray but easier and more forgiving, you just die if you get hit twice with flood ray, with this you just kinda lose a bit of uptime. Exchange of Agonies also felt like Despair Unforgotten in Endsinger EX, but just easier. Weird fight. I don't need or want fights to be just brutally hard, but few mechanics felt "savage". Cachexia is probably the only one. Cool mechanic, a shame the second one is honestly easier.
P5S is almost perfect, 9/10 fight I think the only part that needed a second look was maybe Devour, and P8S I'm still progging it but I like it so far. P7 is honestly more enjoyable on normal than it is on savage. IMO made better use out of the triangular platform on Normal where it feels like the player has to analyze which platforms are being taken up in any given situation, while in savage that process feels entirely automated outside of Harvests. Harvests is how I expected more of the mechanics to go, where you'd have to rotate it and it gets wild and it's really fun to figure out how to organize the players... but the other of the mechanics in P7S are very uncreative and don't make use of the platforms in any real way, like Immortal Obol effectively being a 1-off "towers" mechanic, Fruit 1 (LP stacks on 1 platform) and Fruit 5 (birds+towers) being pitifully easy to solve with the arena barely playing a part, and Purgation is a huge meme. Harvests is the best part of the fight that uses the platforms to perfection, but is utterly ruined by the fact that 80% of the fight is generic and braindead yet people STILL manage to screw it up, I can only imagine because their brain turns off from the monotony. I also felt exactly the same way you did for P6S, where despite the ground switch pattern looking more complicated or the mechanics look terrifying as heck like Agonies, it is designed in such a way that there isn't as much randomization as in normal and is a bunch of 50/50s. These two fights were huge disappointments for me, where most of the mechanical challenge comes from "don't clip your teammate with an AoE" leading to rather boring and frustrating prog sessions where 1 person in a group who isn't paying attention can cause you to wipe.
definitely agree that doing your job and doing mechanics makes the fights more interesting. I'm a black mage main and I found savage kinda refreshing with moving correctly while keeping uptime. In DSR it was really lacking with P2 and P5 especially with P3 and P4 not much better.
Awesome video and review of the latest raid tier. Echos my thoughts almost exactly! I do think it would've been best to put your last portion of the video surrounding the drama in a separate one though, as a lot of people may miss it unless they look!
Similar for our static, we raid 3 hours a night 3 days a week, and we got Carbuncle on the 2nd night, then Hegemone on the 3rd night at the very end of the night because it is so much easier
Gonna agree on P5S being amazing. I‘m relatively new to savage (only did P1S prior to this tier and also relatively late into the tier) and I’ve never had so much fun progging a fight in PF And for the stuff with your static, thank you for explaining everything in detail, i hope this will make the drama queens of Reddit and Twitter shut up finally. Best of luck for the inevitable P8S clear and I hope nothing else is going to go wrong from now on. And if it does, might wanna rename the static to something including the word „cursed“
P5S also has the perfect balance between hard and enjoyable, unlike the clown fiesta that is p8s where it's hard to bear playing that sober and just a massive f you to the player.
Amusingly, I like puzzles in the middle of the fight that have nothing to do with your job. I agree with the hatred of door bosses though, even when they usually result in cool transformation sequences. I think P8 transformation sequences are cool and could have continued into the final transform without the cutscene and resultant door boss feel.
Nah that’s just the PF RNG and fight design this tier. It’s weirdly punishing for the entire group if a single person messes up one or two mechanics. Take P5S for example. If you die during devour, unless you have a very competent OT (or MT) who realises something is up, somebody else will also die, then there will be two baits and that by itself might result in a wipe or you using a LB to get rid of it which might result in you dying to enrage. P6S has similar problems. If you somehow die during the limit cut phase (happens to a lot of people in PF), you might not respawn in time to reposition yourself properly for exchange of agonies. Which can be half a party wipe if somebody messes up his position or gets confused by the icons. I cleared P5S like 7 days after knowing the fight inside out, about 3 days ago. I wish I was joking when I said it’s the fight that’s hard. It’s not. It’s eg healers randomly dying to knockbacks, people messing up which position to run to for ruby 5, lol devour and so on and forth. Progressing P6S is a nightmare because even Coachella 1 onwards groups struggle to even get to that mechanic because one person’s error sets off a chain reaction, usually. Just my two cents.
@@Dennis-sv2de i agree on p5s but p6s was very forgiving to team wipe. As for P7S there lot more team wipe mechanics. P8S (still progging) mainly Gorgon phase is team wipe. Personally try find PF that willing to spend 1/2 hours to prog/learn then a2c. Dont know how other servers work but Elemental is good data center in doing PF prog.
@@Korelon7 Mad disagree. You can babysit people to death and they will not learn. Paste the macro, answer any question, tell them about ruby 5 and they will just go “I forgot, mb”. Hate that people force this weird “you’re part of the problem” mentality. Yeah, he’s part of the problem. His clear group should have kicked the 2 players who died twice before devour without giving them an infinite amount of chances lol.
@@Dennis-sv2de Then why isn't it their fault they didn't leave/make their own group to kick those players? It's absolutely a part of a player's responsibility in PF, it's by far my least favourite part of PF and why I prefer statics, but it's something that needs to be done when playing with randoms.
P2S was an awesome fight. The fact that the platform became so restrictive in that fight had a huge impact on how we solved mechanics, like needing to run a full 3/4 circle to do limit cut, or Coherence and Overflow 3 being a very chaotic and precise mechanic that was very tight because of the arena restriction. P6S and even P7S just don't have that at all, they feel too lenient for most of their runtime and almost no risk.
I totally get that shitty feel. While not 100% the same. I joined a mount farm and we had been farming for a solid 2 hours without a single drop. I said I was gonna leave after the next kill because I wanted to eat. What do you think, it dropped and I won the roll. I felt super shitty to leave right after getting it. Everyone was okay with it because I said I would leave beforehand
i would completely disagree with p5s, i think its overtuned compared to 6 and 7 and it makes pugging it an absolutely horrible experience, it and devour specifically is a gate in much the same way ramuh was with furys fourteen; i think its more likely to scare new raiders off than it is to initiate them, which is a shame with how much easier p6 is in comparison. specifically i refer to how many mechanics are set up to screw you if one person dies during them, again pointing to devour followed by pair puddles, which compounds on new raider anxiety and reinforces p5s as a filter fight rather than an introduction. where p6s is more of a light party safety dorito fight with a couple of exceptions, p5s is much more about individual accountability and execution, which is going to highlight weak members of your raid and single out new or struggling raiders more than other fights in the tier, making it a dreadful choice and design for an opening fight if the goal is to ease new savage raiders into the content. that kind of individual responsibility and cognizance belongs more in the later fights away from the uninitiated, which thankfully p8s does great
i'm just a noob that doesn't raid current savage tiers and is not always 100% optimal with rotation and stuff, but it was odd seeing this heavy accent on 2min buffs; to me it makes a lot of jobs just same-y and not always fun to play. IMO the alternation between 30/60/90/120s buffs should be the way to go and I hope they think this through on next major changes.
That's the thing. They already had 30/60/90/120/180 sec buffs before. Then they made them all be 60s or 120s, because they like making things be more boring.
I'm just glad that every fight this tier doesn't do knockbacks and tethers like like tier. Last tier was really disappointing with the constant repeat of those two mechanics. Also can we stop with the knockbacks or the "if you don't arms length you're dead", its getting old and busted and isn't being very inspiring to the fights anymore because its been so heavily used. Also 2 : The door boss for the last phase is getting annoying. I know its cool the first couple of times because it adds a theme or feel but for more limited time prog groups or PF it just adds a needless time hurdle and after 4-6 weeks its just tiring and boring.
Me after watching this thoughtful video on savage encounters and after reading thoughtful comments on the video: "Heyyyyy. . . in P5 and P6. . . .that's not a LaLa!!!"
Yea i would agrre p6s is easier than p5s, since its strictly mechanical with only "caffeteria" being mechanic that demands some decission making. Its more like p1s with some added value, but not that hard to learn. You always know where you should be at given phase, making simple 50/50 adjustments.
I wish P6S kept the orange squares from normal alongside the + and X. Also feel like they could have done something with swapping *your* position instead of only the AoEs, it really feels like they didn't explore the main gimmick very much. As for fights 2+3 being worse than 1+4, there's a famous psychological phenomenon where the beginning and end of things are the most memorable parts. I think that's why even if I look at both tiers objectively and think Asphodelos is overall better than Abyssos, I still *feel* in my gut like I've been enjoying Abyssos more. Proto-Carby and Haephestos are simply The Good Shit. 100% agreed on everything being homogenized to 2 minutes. Aside from making the damage spikes super stressful, it also just makes classes feel less distinct. Everyone's different stars aligning for that glorious 6 minute re-opener felt so cool.
Playing as a Black Mage this tier, P7S has been annoying. First time doing Savage on Black Mage, and Purgiation to the end is so annoying. Because it is at the end of the fight, getting the reps to have a solid plan to tackle it has been annoying.
While I do agree the mechs in h1 are cool, there is a huge flaw in the fight that makes a dps check like this ultra annoying - and that is knockback/dog first makes your 2 min windows line up extremely poorly with the manifold flames and other mechanics. This causes lost potency in one timeline vs another through no fault of the player, doing the same mechanics. Some wipes week 1 could be attributed to - "well we got dog first and was at 1%..."
that's just bad strategy though. there is an uptime strat for dog first that allows you to hit everyone with buffs. you can still hit people with buffs even not doing that strat if you are quick to move.
I know u hated that everyone used yor strats in shadowbringers but it was the most fun time ive ever had raiding in party finder ive been playing less and less because i hate learning new starts becaue everyone has a different one or doing something different adn on top the mechanics are getting way to hard for all that and i think my time as a ffxiv raider since stormblood has finnally come to a end after this tier. And it feels like i need thrid party programs just to see mechanics that happen so fast.
if i hadn't joined a static i wouldve been salty about the devour part since it's annoying to do in PF especially when new people show up who havent mastered it. but so far p5s was "all right" To be honest all this tier just taught me is the have less patience with healers and lesser expectation in pf.
The worst thing about Devour is that it doesn't involve any teamwork, nor any watching of debuffs or positioning of your team. You know, stuff expected in Savages. Not a problem with the mechanic itself, but rather how it's mindboggling how people keep failing to resolve it completely cleanly. Everyone just needs to know how to do both patterns, and all nuances of that mechanic can be grasped by watching guides. Lines on the floor make it super easy and oftentimes I see people over-move past where they should and it makes me wince. It's disappointing how even people in statics can't do it consistently even week after week. Ditto for Ruby 3, especially when they try to make callouts (while you're the one doing callouts for the group week after week and even have a dorito on you) but walk into the wrong square ~50% of pulls. Towers afterwards is just merely standing in a static spot, and for tanks it's just merely a case of agreeing beforehand if someone's gonna invuln it or if both are gonna step off their circle and soak. There's little about P5S which is hard, and it stumps me why people don't just study the mechanics properly. PF is hell until you get to reclears, after which it's night and day once you get players who know what they're doing.
Disagree on p8sp1. It's obnoxious to have all the body checks and pass/fail checks in a door boss. One person messes up dog1 knockback? Likely wipe. One person messes up a mechanic in snake1 and especially snake2? Likely wipe. Similar for fourfold to a lesser extent. It makes prog and cleanup soul crushing and exacerbates the usual problem of prog being held back by the weakest link. Compare to e12s or p4s, much more manageable door bosses imo.
Both the normal mode fights and the savage mode fights (and the story for the normal mode fights) feel out of order to me. It feels like they were all designed to be in this order: Agdistis > Proto-Carbuncle > Hegemone > Hepaistos and then suddenly out of nowhere they changed the order around. This tier just feels wrong to be honest. (at least, to me it does) And not just that. I can't quite describe it in words but there's other things bothering me about the tier too.
I think this is one of the best and most iconic tiers ever, while also being one of the worst in terms of balance. They clearly went overboard with the difficulty (and partly a bit too easy) and fairness/enjoyment in general. Imho P5S and P6S are the only well designed fight, the others are either way too punishing or lack mechanics for difficulty (altho P7S is a refreshing fight for once). Though with P6S they could have added some additional debuff or something to watch out and increase the difficulty. But I get why it stays that way cuz it's overloaded already. Dont even start with me talking about job balance, atleast back then.
Personal tier opinions: Overall: Did not really enjoy the tier much outside of the first fight. Fourth fight was okay but with an asterisk I'll get to. Second and third fight ranged from okay to very disappointing, and the fifth fight...oh boy... First: No real complaints whatsoever! Genuinely really enjoyable encounter, neat mechanical interacions, excellent intro boss, damage felt fun, good to solve, overall really solid. Favorite fight of the tier. Second: Cachexia 1&2 are both neat mechanics and the interactions with the floor were interesting, damage check still felt very low even if the playerbase was in full 610. Started to get rather repetitive mechanically however, and inbetween cachexia 1 and 2 it felt very sluggish. Still a decent fight though, not awful. Third: Easily the worst fight in the tier and it is not close. 6 minutes of nothing into 3 1/2 minutes of mechanics then another minute of nothing into enrage. Harvests and Purgation are good mechanics but nothing can save the absolute slog of a first half of that fight. Fourth: A really good fight completely ruined by its week 1 check. Mechanically really interesting, although I'm still not a fan of the 'lose 1 at the start of/before a mechanic = instant wipe with no comeback chance(relevant for both gorgon mechanics and rearing rampage). Fun movement fight overall that just suffers from its much too glaring issues. Fifth: Second worst fight in the tier. Healing the fight is very interesting, at least as it currently stands. Outside of the color matching game and some simple "role have X, go to Y", there isn't really anything special going on with this fight whatsoever. Figures both the worst fights are wall bosses.
I kinda stopped raiding after orange bird hell quite literally burnt me out, and it's not exactly encouraging to see that I maybe made the correct decision not jumping back into when this tier dropped. I just hope squenix learns from the problems this expansion has had and uses the upcoming patches and expansion to establish a solid bedrock of gameplay as the story just keeps going higher and crazier.
based on this video and everyone's comments I must be the only mf on Earth that actually really enjoyed P6S. I completely agree that the first 60% of P7S is a drag, but being a PF player, I'll take that over PF being perma-stuck on adds in Phoinix any day.
It's so strange I was in a discord with some people who immediately posted that you looted and and left the static and I have always been a big believer in doing your own research and when I did I didn't think it was that big of a deal since no one in your static was mad or had said anything negative about your decision. I posted in that discord what had happened and people were like, "Oh, still shitty he funneled himself gear though." I facepalmed.
You forgot the main gripe of P7S. The tankbuster is initialized on the castbar. Counterintuitive to what every tank main has come to learn, if you taunt at anytime during the castbar, YOU will get the tankbuster. Not the tank that had aggro when the castbar starts. I don't know if it's a bug or intentional, but I cannot recall any tankbuster in the history of this game that acted like this.
i think it's fine, the day 1 design makes these tb's brutal so having the extra cast time to provoke/cast mits is really helpful. It's different yeah but it's just like any other mechanic ingame.
E12S door boss and P6S are the same way, where the TB is initialized on the castbar. You actually learn this type of buster in the previous fight in the tier leading up to P7S, so I'm not sure how you got to P7S and still didn't know the doublebuster?
@@fredxu99 Eden's Promise is always top 2 threat double buster, can't change it. P6S's double buster timing is 100% not like P7S's. In P6S, if it's the shared cone TB, as soon as the castbar shows up, the OT can taunt and not take the TB. In P7S if you do that even at 90% condensed aero TB castbar, the OT will end up taking the TB. Go ahead and try it.
I think this Tier really illustrated how finely tuned the balance team needs to be OR the design limitations of specific jobs and how far you can push the laise a faire culture of raid composition in light of tighter dps challenges. Unfortunately, even if the nerfs do mitigate the worries the design team has of excluding people, the public perception will not change any time soon. RIP MCH just hope you get a rework alongside AST and DRG in 7.0 and start learning that BRD or DNC rotation.
Your talking like this is something unforgivable it's really not a big deal and they acted so quickly that it never really affected most people Yes some jobs need buffs but they aren't unplayably by any means also by the time most people reach p8s they will have enough gear to down him by any comp
@@justaman4887 the Japanese players literally banned paladin players from joining their raids groups. You weren’t allowed to join if you played paladin. Tough luck.
@@justaman4887 Gear always solves the issue, that isn't the problem. The problem is the player perception of specific jobs and comps as well as the fact that weaker players need those tiny edges to complete content.
@@Dennis-sv2de i didn't say it didn't effect people i said it never effected most people and they did act quickly on it Did they fuck up? Yes Was it something so huge that it's unforgivable? No
the fact that you even disclosed anything that happend with the group is (not bad just using what I am about to use for a lack of a better word) weird. Like...why should ANYBODY care about what your groups issues were...they weren't part of it
fuckin weird parasocial ppl, i dont get it either. Even some ppl in the comments already being fuckin smug about it. They really have some mental gymnastics like they were attacked by Happy somehow.
I haven't been able to experience the other fights yet, devour is just that level of bullshit. Kills every group I've gotten with. If they slow it down by a tick, it'll go much smoother as the snapshot is off
Both patterns can be cheesed. People just over think it. You can use the first area as a relative north marker. For the circle pattern you start west, move into the first area he jumps in and then just stay there until you see him jump to west which will be directly next to you. Then you can follow him around but you have to be closeish to the middle. For the zigzag pattern you start south, wait for him to jump back to the first spot and then you run in a slightly curved line that's curved towards where he jumped from to the first spot and just stay there near the corner.
I couldn't disagree more about P7S. The usage of the arena is creative and fresh and I think the different fruit mechanics are really cool as well. Is it a bit backloaded? I guess, but I never once felt bored doing the fight.
Same, I dont really get why it should be borring. Slow and weirdly paced? sure, but I like the slower systematic approach for once and it's kinda enjoyable.
From the sounds of it The first couple might be okay to run in a PF but the rest I’ll have to run with help from my FC where things are more coordinated
As a blm I don’t find p7s isn’t boring or slow lol. It’s got me thinking way more on how to optimize my rotation and positioning. Prob drives my static mad haha
Felt like 5+6 should have been switched, 5s took my group a few hours, 6s we did in like 3 pulls. 7s was a good fight, but hated how back loaded it was. DPS check on 7s was rough too in week 1. Hate 8s. Hate everything about it as a caster. So much movement, the healing requirements feel Janky and inopportune, there's just a ton going on and it's easy to miss stuff.
Honestly think p6 and 7 are some of the worst fights they've made in a while, worse than anything in asphodelos or promise by far. Last fight I disliked as much as these was E7. Def agree 5 and 8 are bangers tho.
This tier....wasnt fun at all for me First three fights' dps checks are non existent and the mechanics in p6s and p7s move at a tectonically slow pace,not to mention how p7s is basically easier than fucking zodiark ex until you hit harvest. P8s has been good which is the highest praise i can give this tier
Your criticisms especially for the 7th mission feel super inconsistent? You complain about the first half being disjointed and too easy then complain about the second half being too hard and frustrating... huh? Do you want it to be difficult or not? I thought the missions this tier are actually all super fun. They have been therapeutic to detox from the mechanic vomit garbage that was dragon song ultimate which is just make 12 mechanics happen at once and make a personal fight with group consequences multiplied 8 fold. I can see how as your job you may find some of these fights boring but as a tank or healer, these missions have been excellent. Perhaps it would be better to caveat your criticisms with "from a melee player perspective".
"It's fun one time" or "it's fun the first clear" comes close to describing most encounters as a static healer, because really you mostly get action variety when things are going wrong.
Sounds like a design issue
I really wish they’d make healer DPS just a bit more interesting, even visually. It doesn’t need more buttons if they’re worried, RDM’s spell finisher combo revolves around like 2 buttons but feels so satisfying. More interesting healer DPS would make all the content that’s not high end more fun too.
@@OhNoTheFace It's a design issue with party based dungeon crawlers/MMOs in general though, not just FFXIV
Healing is literally there for when things go wrong. Or at least the healing that is interesting and dynamic is the healing you do when things go wrong. Heal checks are signposted/routine. Spot healing individual party members when they screw up mechanics is fun and reactive and feels like there's a bit of skill expression to it. Once everyone knows a boss, that's usually mostly gone.
I don't know if it's possible to make proactive healing, on the other hand, more fun and interesting... FFXIV's solution seemed to be to make healers mostly damage-dealers too so they're juggling roles to get that dynamism, but our damage rotations are back to pressing like two buttons at this point so... that's out the window.
@@sergel02 imo they should just give every healer a 3-part gcd combo. Doesnt change *anything* gameplay-wise but atleast provides new animations to look at
Try it in pf though and you will want to go right back to the static lol
The big thing about the 2 minute windows now is it forces this play optimally or get fucked kind of design. There's no "oh I fucked up my rotation and missed this buff, maybe I can hit the next one" and maybe you lose a bit, but nothing dramatic
Now, you can lose so much damage and there's just no way to try to gain that damage back. Also. with most rotations being 1-2 minutes and raid buffs being also 2 minutes, mistakes can rarely be fully recovered from. Most jobs also don't have any way of resetting or jumping to some other part of their rotation to try to realign things. It's a design that hurts casual players because they make mistakes and frustrates experienced players because there's very few ways to optimize.
People that advocate for moving away from the 2 minute buff windows need to make sure to bring up that even though this design choice was to presumably make things easier for more casual players, its had the opposite effect.
casual players don't even know what a 2min buff window is, it hurts no one. If anything the correct terminology in my mind is that is just becomes boring everything is "the same" regardless of jobs, you burst at 2mins and you do nothing while you wait for the next 2 mins XD
I completely disagree with this take. There are 2 minute windows now, but there were still buff alignment windows before the EW change. It's just that they would end up aligning around 0 and 6 minutes due to the varied combination of 60s, 90s, 120s, and 180s buffs. This meant that before the shift to 2-min windows, it was EVEN WORSE if you misplayed or missed the two big windows in the fight. On the other hand, now it's spread out to once every 2 mins for 5-6 burst windows, triple the amount we had before.
@@ExadraLP the issue is if you fucked up your 0 or 6 minute combination you could still try to realign with some of the other buffs at odds minutes, now you cannot do that. there's also no optimizing around times other than 2 minutes windows, you don't save resources for trick for example.
I don't agree with moving away from 2 minute buff windows, HOWEVER the opinion presented here is quite valid to the point I would sustain it even if it's not something I'm too inclined for, but presented this way is an argument that makes alot of sense imho
Exactly. I'm a casual player, so 1) I don't find savage content fun at all. Heck, I don't find the Endwalker trials to be fun at all. The bosses have way too much HP and the battles just drag on forever; and 2) I don't like to play savage content because it's too unforgiving, and if you don't play perfectly many people get upset.
The problem with back-loaded encounters like P7S is that when they are new, it’s a war of attrition just to get to those difficult mechanics in order to practice them. Can’t tell you how many “Harvest Progs” I joined that often wiped at or before the purgation mechanic and never even saw harvest to practice it.
It stings the other way too, for when you have a group genuinely at harvest prog and is solid on the rest of the fight. There's just such lengthy repetition to get to the point you want to practice at and it just...ugh. It's gonna haunt me for a while.
I think p7 upholds the curse quite well, this fight is literally e7 in terms of structure without the interesting add phase. Painfully slow? Check. A "hard" mechanic that is able to be easily cheesed? (purgation) Check. A BS final phase that we will probably skip with gear? Check. Nothing really happens for like 7 minutes? Check.
I mean you can say that but the other extreme is P8S what essencialy is a gigantic dumpster fire and absolutely crushes any hopes of clearing. Difficulty yeah? But no need to got to the moon, that was borderline ultimate. P7S might seems a bit "underwhelming" and slow, but at the same time it´s a breather before the impending doom that is the final fight.
P8s being overtuned is probably a good thing, if the dps check wasn't so tight from the start then i don't think the issue of class balance would have been discussed nearly as much
We've all done the "make a decision in the heat of the moment" that we regret, very happy you had a team that was understand and everyone was able to come out happy with the results
for me I really like the second half of p8s because adjusting your rotation and making those small optimizations in a class to really deal with the downtime the best you can is a lot of fun to me
So far I’m really liking this tier. Cleared P5, progging P6, both in Party Finder. Excited to continue going through it - it feels challenging for me, and like it’s pushing me to be a better player.
Definitely feels like a step up from P1-4. Appreciate the vid, the review, and the transparency. Good luck in the upcoming weeks with all the work coming up!
THANK YOU I do appreciate the comment about the extra testing leading to the overtuning, the analogy of tuning for performance of a static at 8 week reclears (or even 4 week reclears) was perfect for it. Like the skill issue joke from their patch notes is funny the first time but like got old fast.
They had one wall boss before who did something interesting... and his name was Neo Exdeath. Because he actually teleported between spots and had PB AOEs that forced melees to break away from the boss. He also had a hitbox that was actually relatively small instead of being half the arena in all directions. The devs need to bring back smaller hitboxes, and this is coming from a tank/melee main
At least Neo Exdeath had Almagest so healers had to actually do their job and heal instead of leaving raid at sub 30% hp for over 15 seconds.
One important point in the balance discussion that should be even more on the forefront in my opinion is the melee discrepancy.
Nowadays fights are designed around melee uptime so much, that it has become a non issue for like 99% of the time. Two out of five fights are static wall bosses with hitboxes so big you could essentially remove them entirely and it would not even change much. The other three Bosses have hitboxes so big that you can perform basically every mechanic in melee range without any real adjustments or player input. So melees these days are essentially playing physical ranged for the vast majority of the fights.
But the damage does not reflect that. The dps gap between melees and caster/ranged is huge. Bigger than even individual differences within the roles themselves.
And this is in my opinion the biggest balance issue the game has at the moment. Melees get rewarded with amasing damage that they had to work for in the past. Nowadays not nearly as much. But SE is not showing the same care for casters for example. Running from one platform to the other five times in a row in P7S is apparently not enough skillexpression for a BLM or a RDM. It just feels so bad doing all the work of preplaning your movement tools and adjusting it to the order of stack/spread on the fly to not even deal comparable damage to the melee running next to me who does not have to think about their core mechanic at any point in that fight at all.
Yup. Can't imagine being a caster main is very fun right now.
Meanwhile the MCH in the corner with the gun to their own head, the BRD wondering if they can make a noose with their own harp, and the Dancer just looking longingly into the Abyss.
I don't think there's anyone feeling more pain than us ranged players.
@@wolfvermillion1729 Good thing Squenix gave me 3 charges of Em Avant. All the better to launch myself off cliffs with
This is the first tier I've taken a break from Savage since Stormblood (RDM Main). Honestly, I picked a good tier to sit out. Not because it's bad, but like seeing how other friends are struggling, plus how hectic even the Normal fights have been this patch, and for how -very- unwanted my main is in PF, I guess it's a good time for me to sit out and just popcorn and cheer on my friends.
But I reeeeeally hope SE can address the horrible spot casters are in right now sometime soon.
Yes, melees have easier uptime. But you're conveniently omitting that BLM got given plenty of tools to instantly cast and negate their innate mobility weakness. RDM is mobile and has dual cast + acceleration. SMN hardcasts less than SAM. Besides, as a whole, casters don't have to manage their mana anymore. SMN, RDM and BLM will NEVER not be able to cast a spell.. unless you're taking into account resurrection spamming SMN and RDM... which is luxury utility that melees don't have. BLM doesn't even have mana per se, it's just their main job resource painted under a different coat. ALL jobs have an easier time, not just melees.
Now, when you say "casters" only one of them was designed to be a carry. That's BLM, obviously. And yes, BLM could use some buffs but, again, BLM ALSO has an easier time keeping uptime nowadays. SMN and RDM always should be on the lower spectrum of damage because of how easy to play they are and because of all the utility they offer.
BRD and DNC aren't designed to be carries either, and MCH as we all know is a mess right now. Needs a complete rework tbh.
I think you and all the people ranting about melees completely miss the point. ALL jobs have it easier nowadays. That's not where the issue lies. The issue (if that can be considered one) is that only melees, BLM and MCH were designed to be carries and, thus, top damage meters.
It's not the bosses' hitboxes, it's the way Square have designed their classes. If you don't like doing lower damage, then play a job that was designed to be a carry. If you want RDM to top damage, be wary that this means the job would have to be entirely reworked. In a nutshell: no more resurrection, no more or much less utility and a more complex rotation.
That's how Square decides who gets to do more damage, and that's where melees work (yes, they do work for their damage in spite of your spite) for theirs. They're still harder to play optimally than SMN, RDM or DNC for instance. Only BLM should run alongside melees in terms of damage.
I think the error of P7S (aside from backloaded fight) is that the hitbox being that big, kindof remove all uptime / movement necessity. if from time to time the boss popped on add in the middle of the 3 platform while we had to doge the eggs, I think it could have been very nice.
I actually super enjoy P7S. I think the use of the stage and variety of combinations keep it fresh, whereas P6S is just one or two mechanics remixed endlessly to where I get lost.
The issue is with enough gear you can basically skip the last 3 harvests, and without the last 3 harvests, the fight is actually really easy. For the good groups, p7s doesn't feel like a savage fight once you skip harvests. For the casual groups, it's frustrating to wipe near the end, when it's such a boring first 80% of the fight. I think the key issue is that the hard part of the fight is at the end.
P7S is 7 minutes of waiting and then 1 minute of spamming every mechanic in the fight all at once.
I always enjoy this kind of analysis from you. Really thoughtful.
This tier as a whole feels more like a healer tier, all the bleeds, tank buster bleed, twin buster bleed, raid wide bleed, and then asking u to move all over places while u casting stuff... Healer tier this one
I think healers always get the short end of the stick, but especially this tier.
p7s is literally just an EX trial with one savage mechanic tacked onto the end
And still, in my opinion, it isn’t harder than Barbariccia EX.
No
P8S P2 is as well, maybe a bit more nuanced but yeah.
Very mature of you to be open and vulnerable about your mistakes. Good luck getting the clear on main and in future raid tiers.
his 'mistakes' stfu. its his 'choice'.
I kind of wish more of P6 was like Cachexia, like if Ptera Ixou was the main raidwide and throughout the fight you were swapping Chelic and Glossal Resistance debuffs constantly, maybe your Glossomorph or Chelomorph debuff would affect you unless you "purged" out the parasite by taking the side of Ptera Ixou that would kill it, like antiparasitic treatment or extreme treatment like chemotherapy or radiation therapy to kill cancer cells. Anything other than the Polyominoid panels because the fight felt so repetitive, the different Sigmas would just blend together in my head.
I really love how there silent agreement on adjustment. As someone who mainly pug (only static to assist fc or friends) it really enjoyable when total strangers will have act in unison. P5S was fun as well, prolly the only fast pace opening savage since Eden. Which is kinda weird how slow p6s and p7s was. P7S and P8S dps check was really tight for non-overmeld crafted gear compared to P3S and P4S though i really hoped they dont do high dps check requirement for that meta class become pre requisite.
The first tier always has a more loose DPS checks because people are still learning to play with the new job changes that came with the expansion launch. By the 2nd tier, people are expected to know their new rotations well, so the checks are tighter.
I really liked this analysis of the tier. Thank you for chiming in.
My thoughts:
P5S: Great Start, Great Fight
P6S: Relaxing Fight, Fun Break
P7S: Backloaded, but mechanically fun due to variations in resolving mechanics(for now)
P8S P1: Fun Doorboss, hate looky mechs but w/e
P*S P2: Great Transition, haven't cleared yet
I pretty much agree with all of these opinions.
5 was a great first fight. Not as good as O9S which I think holds the crown as the best first fight, but I think top 3 is fair. It had a pretty wide variety of mechanics to it and largely built on itself. I wish they would have continued that theme for the rest of the tier.
6 was meh. Honestly if you look back I think second fights of raid tiers have the worst track record. You have a boss that never moves (although that does apply to a lot of raid bosses even this tier, it's not a good thing) which is basically a striking dummy and she basically does 1 mechanic at a time, sometimes combined with the front/back or left/right cleave.
The best thing about 7 was the arena. I'm glad they can make fights that aren't circles and squares, but I feel like the first half of the fight didn't make all that much use of it. Also I'm just going to say as a tank that they forgot to have tank damage in the second half of the fight (no busters in the entire second half), and that combined with it being a wall boss with maybe the biggest hitbox in the game didn't make it exactly engaging for tanks. I feel like they could have cut like 3 minutes out of the fight but kept everything in it at a faster pace and it would be much more enjoyable.
Haven't actually finished 8 yet but I definitely agree the door boss is the best part of the tier. I want to specifically mention that they made a tankbuster you can't invuln and ignore the swap on, which is a nice change, but they haven't really done anything to stop you from just kitchen sinking 2 of them. Busters in a lot of fights in general need the frequency upped a bit. The mechanics all come out quickly and don't give you time to get bored like some fights do. I wish they didn't nerf the dps check, gear would let people clear eventually. If anything they should have buffed the non-meta classes that aren't tanks if they were concerned.
Also as a tank I just want to point out that every buster this tier has a bleed, which is probably a way for Superbolide and Hallowed to actually have a benefit to compete with the short cooldowns on Holmgang and Living Dead. It doesn't make up for it all that much but I guess it's a start.
Hallowed and superbolade stop having an effect on the bleed once they wear off for some reason. It's counter intuitive since that exactly NOT how all other damage is calculated in the game.
Also, I 100% agree with your assessment that they should have just left the damage checks and buffed the lower preforming classes in terms of dps. Ome of the DPS classes are just lagging behind so badly.
@@Dunnston170 Hallowed and Superbolide don't stop the bleed after the invuln falls off, but the invuln will still last like half the duration of the bleed. I think it should mitigate the DoT in some way if not nullify it entirely though if they actually want Hallowed and Superbolide to compete with Holmgang and Living Dead. Like 3-4 fewer bleed ticks isn't worth an extra minute or more on the cooldown most of the time.
can agree on the p5 its actually my favorite out of recent memory besides e9s also im glad you decided to shed some light on what was going on the raid group is really fun to watch imo there are alot of streamers including yourself i enjoy watching for ff14 content and seeing you patch things up was nice not to sure why people wanted to call it alot of drama like everyone in the group said shit happens and sometimes its out of our control no need to be crazy upset over it all
Both P6S and 7S utilize the arena a lot, which is nice, but I almost wonder if they utilize the arena maybe too much, and they felt like they had to slow down the pace of the fight or only through a few different variations of mechanics at you.
Its a bit of tricky problem for p6s at least, theoretically you could have those aoes spawn wherever, but it would be horrendously frustrating if there were too many variations just due to how relatively limited your vision is. Its a shame they couldn't find a better sweet spot between too easy and frustrating.
Not to mention limit cut is flood ray but easier and more forgiving, you just die if you get hit twice with flood ray, with this you just kinda lose a bit of uptime. Exchange of Agonies also felt like Despair Unforgotten in Endsinger EX, but just easier. Weird fight. I don't need or want fights to be just brutally hard, but few mechanics felt "savage". Cachexia is probably the only one. Cool mechanic, a shame the second one is honestly easier.
P5S is almost perfect, 9/10 fight I think the only part that needed a second look was maybe Devour, and P8S I'm still progging it but I like it so far.
P7 is honestly more enjoyable on normal than it is on savage. IMO made better use out of the triangular platform on Normal where it feels like the player has to analyze which platforms are being taken up in any given situation, while in savage that process feels entirely automated outside of Harvests. Harvests is how I expected more of the mechanics to go, where you'd have to rotate it and it gets wild and it's really fun to figure out how to organize the players... but the other of the mechanics in P7S are very uncreative and don't make use of the platforms in any real way, like Immortal Obol effectively being a 1-off "towers" mechanic, Fruit 1 (LP stacks on 1 platform) and Fruit 5 (birds+towers) being pitifully easy to solve with the arena barely playing a part, and Purgation is a huge meme. Harvests is the best part of the fight that uses the platforms to perfection, but is utterly ruined by the fact that 80% of the fight is generic and braindead yet people STILL manage to screw it up, I can only imagine because their brain turns off from the monotony. I also felt exactly the same way you did for P6S, where despite the ground switch pattern looking more complicated or the mechanics look terrifying as heck like Agonies, it is designed in such a way that there isn't as much randomization as in normal and is a bunch of 50/50s. These two fights were huge disappointments for me, where most of the mechanical challenge comes from "don't clip your teammate with an AoE" leading to rather boring and frustrating prog sessions where 1 person in a group who isn't paying attention can cause you to wipe.
definitely agree that doing your job and doing mechanics makes the fights more interesting. I'm a black mage main and I found savage kinda refreshing with moving correctly while keeping uptime. In DSR it was really lacking with P2 and P5 especially with P3 and P4 not much better.
Awesome video and review of the latest raid tier. Echos my thoughts almost exactly! I do think it would've been best to put your last portion of the video surrounding the drama in a separate one though, as a lot of people may miss it unless they look!
P6s felt super easy i literally went in blind and got to enrage in like 3 hours or so
Similar for our static, we raid 3 hours a night 3 days a week, and we got Carbuncle on the 2nd night, then Hegemone on the 3rd night at the very end of the night because it is so much easier
Gonna agree on P5S being amazing. I‘m relatively new to savage (only did P1S prior to this tier and also relatively late into the tier) and I’ve never had so much fun progging a fight in PF
And for the stuff with your static, thank you for explaining everything in detail, i hope this will make the drama queens of Reddit and Twitter shut up finally.
Best of luck for the inevitable P8S clear and I hope nothing else is going to go wrong from now on. And if it does, might wanna rename the static to something including the word „cursed“
P5S also has the perfect balance between hard and enjoyable, unlike the clown fiesta that is p8s where it's hard to bear playing that sober and just a massive f you to the player.
Amusingly, I like puzzles in the middle of the fight that have nothing to do with your job. I agree with the hatred of door bosses though, even when they usually result in cool transformation sequences. I think P8 transformation sequences are cool and could have continued into the final transform without the cutscene and resultant door boss feel.
Am i just bad? Right now i feel like my endgame is finding 7 other players that can make incremental progress in learning a raid.
Nah that’s just the PF RNG and fight design this tier. It’s weirdly punishing for the entire group if a single person messes up one or two mechanics.
Take P5S for example. If you die during devour, unless you have a very competent OT (or MT) who realises something is up, somebody else will also die, then there will be two baits and that by itself might result in a wipe or you using a LB to get rid of it which might result in you dying to enrage.
P6S has similar problems. If you somehow die during the limit cut phase (happens to a lot of people in PF), you might not respawn in time to reposition yourself properly for exchange of agonies. Which can be half a party wipe if somebody messes up his position or gets confused by the icons.
I cleared P5S like 7 days after knowing the fight inside out, about 3 days ago. I wish I was joking when I said it’s the fight that’s hard. It’s not. It’s eg healers randomly dying to knockbacks, people messing up which position to run to for ruby 5, lol devour and so on and forth.
Progressing P6S is a nightmare because even Coachella 1 onwards groups struggle to even get to that mechanic because one person’s error sets off a chain reaction, usually.
Just my two cents.
@@Dennis-sv2de i agree on p5s but p6s was very forgiving to team wipe. As for P7S there lot more team wipe mechanics. P8S (still progging) mainly Gorgon phase is team wipe.
Personally try find PF that willing to spend 1/2 hours to prog/learn then a2c. Dont know how other servers work but Elemental is good data center in doing PF prog.
@@Korelon7 Mad disagree. You can babysit people to death and they will not learn. Paste the macro, answer any question, tell them about ruby 5 and they will just go “I forgot, mb”.
Hate that people force this weird “you’re part of the problem” mentality. Yeah, he’s part of the problem. His clear group should have kicked the 2 players who died twice before devour without giving them an infinite amount of chances lol.
@@Dennis-sv2de Then why isn't it their fault they didn't leave/make their own group to kick those players? It's absolutely a part of a player's responsibility in PF, it's by far my least favourite part of PF and why I prefer statics, but it's something that needs to be done when playing with randoms.
@@Hologuard That's not a skill issue and is what OP complained about. Finding 7 competent people is harder than the actual fight at times.
I love seeing you still using mnk positional!
I just cleared p6s and I do like it but I cant lie, I think p2s was a much better 2nd fight actually
P2S was an awesome fight. The fact that the platform became so restrictive in that fight had a huge impact on how we solved mechanics, like needing to run a full 3/4 circle to do limit cut, or Coherence and Overflow 3 being a very chaotic and precise mechanic that was very tight because of the arena restriction. P6S and even P7S just don't have that at all, they feel too lenient for most of their runtime and almost no risk.
@@fredxu99 I havent done p7s yet, but yeah overall p6s is too friendly
I totally get that shitty feel. While not 100% the same. I joined a mount farm and we had been farming for a solid 2 hours without a single drop. I said I was gonna leave after the next kill because I wanted to eat. What do you think, it dropped and I won the roll. I felt super shitty to leave right after getting it. Everyone was okay with it because I said I would leave beforehand
i would completely disagree with p5s, i think its overtuned compared to 6 and 7 and it makes pugging it an absolutely horrible experience, it and devour specifically is a gate in much the same way ramuh was with furys fourteen; i think its more likely to scare new raiders off than it is to initiate them, which is a shame with how much easier p6 is in comparison. specifically i refer to how many mechanics are set up to screw you if one person dies during them, again pointing to devour followed by pair puddles, which compounds on new raider anxiety and reinforces p5s as a filter fight rather than an introduction. where p6s is more of a light party safety dorito fight with a couple of exceptions, p5s is much more about individual accountability and execution, which is going to highlight weak members of your raid and single out new or struggling raiders more than other fights in the tier, making it a dreadful choice and design for an opening fight if the goal is to ease new savage raiders into the content. that kind of individual responsibility and cognizance belongs more in the later fights away from the uninitiated, which thankfully p8s does great
i'm just a noob that doesn't raid current savage tiers and is not always 100% optimal with rotation and stuff, but it was odd seeing this heavy accent on 2min buffs; to me it makes a lot of jobs just same-y and not always fun to play. IMO the alternation between 30/60/90/120s buffs should be the way to go and I hope they think this through on next major changes.
That's the thing. They already had 30/60/90/120/180 sec buffs before. Then they made them all be 60s or 120s, because they like making things be more boring.
I'm just glad that every fight this tier doesn't do knockbacks and tethers like like tier. Last tier was really disappointing with the constant repeat of those two mechanics.
Also can we stop with the knockbacks or the "if you don't arms length you're dead", its getting old and busted and isn't being very inspiring to the fights anymore because its been so heavily used.
Also 2 : The door boss for the last phase is getting annoying. I know its cool the first couple of times because it adds a theme or feel but for more limited time prog groups or PF it just adds a needless time hurdle and after 4-6 weeks its just tiring and boring.
Me after watching this thoughtful video on savage encounters and after reading thoughtful comments on the video:
"Heyyyyy. . . in P5 and P6. . . .that's not a LaLa!!!"
Yea i would agrre p6s is easier than p5s, since its strictly mechanical with only "caffeteria" being mechanic that demands some decission making. Its more like p1s with some added value, but not that hard to learn. You always know where you should be at given phase, making simple 50/50 adjustments.
I wish P6S kept the orange squares from normal alongside the + and X. Also feel like they could have done something with swapping *your* position instead of only the AoEs, it really feels like they didn't explore the main gimmick very much.
As for fights 2+3 being worse than 1+4, there's a famous psychological phenomenon where the beginning and end of things are the most memorable parts. I think that's why even if I look at both tiers objectively and think Asphodelos is overall better than Abyssos, I still *feel* in my gut like I've been enjoying Abyssos more. Proto-Carby and Haephestos are simply The Good Shit.
100% agreed on everything being homogenized to 2 minutes. Aside from making the damage spikes super stressful, it also just makes classes feel less distinct. Everyone's different stars aligning for that glorious 6 minute re-opener felt so cool.
Playing as a Black Mage this tier, P7S has been annoying. First time doing Savage on Black Mage, and Purgiation to the end is so annoying. Because it is at the end of the fight, getting the reps to have a solid plan to tackle it has been annoying.
"cause ... I'm a adult"
Damn now I feel like a kid.
Thank you mr happy
Comparing the P7S fight to Phoinix is mean, lol. That fight was pure masochism. I much prefer fights that take a bit to get to the full load.
thanks for filling us in on dirty juicing laundry and owning up mang, big ups!!
While I do agree the mechs in h1 are cool, there is a huge flaw in the fight that makes a dps check like this ultra annoying - and that is knockback/dog first makes your 2 min windows line up extremely poorly with the manifold flames and other mechanics. This causes lost potency in one timeline vs another through no fault of the player, doing the same mechanics. Some wipes week 1 could be attributed to - "well we got dog first and was at 1%..."
that's just bad strategy though. there is an uptime strat for dog first that allows you to hit everyone with buffs. you can still hit people with buffs even not doing that strat if you are quick to move.
This was literally a Door Video. And phase II was fucking amazing!!! Lol
I know u hated that everyone used yor strats in shadowbringers but it was the most fun time ive ever had raiding in party finder ive been playing less and less because i hate learning new starts becaue everyone has a different one or doing something different adn on top the mechanics are getting way to hard for all that and i think my time as a ffxiv raider since stormblood has finnally come to a end after this tier. And it feels like i need thrid party programs just to see mechanics that happen so fast.
if i hadn't joined a static i wouldve been salty about the devour part since it's annoying to do in PF especially when new people show up who havent mastered it. but so far p5s was "all right"
To be honest all this tier just taught me is the have less patience with healers and lesser expectation in pf.
The worst thing about Devour is that it doesn't involve any teamwork, nor any watching of debuffs or positioning of your team. You know, stuff expected in Savages. Not a problem with the mechanic itself, but rather how it's mindboggling how people keep failing to resolve it completely cleanly. Everyone just needs to know how to do both patterns, and all nuances of that mechanic can be grasped by watching guides. Lines on the floor make it super easy and oftentimes I see people over-move past where they should and it makes me wince. It's disappointing how even people in statics can't do it consistently even week after week. Ditto for Ruby 3, especially when they try to make callouts (while you're the one doing callouts for the group week after week and even have a dorito on you) but walk into the wrong square ~50% of pulls.
Towers afterwards is just merely standing in a static spot, and for tanks it's just merely a case of agreeing beforehand if someone's gonna invuln it or if both are gonna step off their circle and soak. There's little about P5S which is hard, and it stumps me why people don't just study the mechanics properly.
PF is hell until you get to reclears, after which it's night and day once you get players who know what they're doing.
first bump for every word on that vid haps
Disagree on p8sp1. It's obnoxious to have all the body checks and pass/fail checks in a door boss. One person messes up dog1 knockback? Likely wipe. One person messes up a mechanic in snake1 and especially snake2? Likely wipe. Similar for fourfold to a lesser extent. It makes prog and cleanup soul crushing and exacerbates the usual problem of prog being held back by the weakest link. Compare to e12s or p4s, much more manageable door bosses imo.
Both the normal mode fights and the savage mode fights (and the story for the normal mode fights) feel out of order to me. It feels like they were all designed to be in this order:
Agdistis > Proto-Carbuncle > Hegemone > Hepaistos
and then suddenly out of nowhere they changed the order around. This tier just feels wrong to be honest. (at least, to me it does)
And not just that. I can't quite describe it in words but there's other things bothering me about the tier too.
tbf 5-7 are just boring and easy, 8 is kind of a saving grace with how they picked up the pace
I think this is one of the best and most iconic tiers ever, while also being one of the worst in terms of balance. They clearly went overboard with the difficulty (and partly a bit too easy) and fairness/enjoyment in general. Imho P5S and P6S are the only well designed fight, the others are either way too punishing or lack mechanics for difficulty (altho P7S is a refreshing fight for once). Though with P6S they could have added some additional debuff or something to watch out and increase the difficulty. But I get why it stays that way cuz it's overloaded already. Dont even start with me talking about job balance, atleast back then.
As a guy who just does side content in this game, y'all raiders be wylin.
Personal tier opinions:
Overall: Did not really enjoy the tier much outside of the first fight. Fourth fight was okay but with an asterisk I'll get to. Second and third fight ranged from okay to very disappointing, and the fifth fight...oh boy...
First: No real complaints whatsoever! Genuinely really enjoyable encounter, neat mechanical interacions, excellent intro boss, damage felt fun, good to solve, overall really solid. Favorite fight of the tier.
Second: Cachexia 1&2 are both neat mechanics and the interactions with the floor were interesting, damage check still felt very low even if the playerbase was in full 610. Started to get rather repetitive mechanically however, and inbetween cachexia 1 and 2 it felt very sluggish. Still a decent fight though, not awful.
Third: Easily the worst fight in the tier and it is not close. 6 minutes of nothing into 3 1/2 minutes of mechanics then another minute of nothing into enrage. Harvests and Purgation are good mechanics but nothing can save the absolute slog of a first half of that fight.
Fourth: A really good fight completely ruined by its week 1 check. Mechanically really interesting, although I'm still not a fan of the 'lose 1 at the start of/before a mechanic = instant wipe with no comeback chance(relevant for both gorgon mechanics and rearing rampage). Fun movement fight overall that just suffers from its much too glaring issues.
Fifth: Second worst fight in the tier. Healing the fight is very interesting, at least as it currently stands. Outside of the color matching game and some simple "role have X, go to Y", there isn't really anything special going on with this fight whatsoever. Figures both the worst fights are wall bosses.
I kinda stopped raiding after orange bird hell quite literally burnt me out, and it's not exactly encouraging to see that I maybe made the correct decision not jumping back into when this tier dropped.
I just hope squenix learns from the problems this expansion has had and uses the upcoming patches and expansion to establish a solid bedrock of gameplay as the story just keeps going higher and crazier.
based on this video and everyone's comments I must be the only mf on Earth that actually really enjoyed P6S. I completely agree that the first 60% of P7S is a drag, but being a PF player, I'll take that over PF being perma-stuck on adds in Phoinix any day.
It's so strange I was in a discord with some people who immediately posted that you looted and and left the static and I have always been a big believer in doing your own research and when I did I didn't think it was that big of a deal since no one in your static was mad or had said anything negative about your decision. I posted in that discord what had happened and people were like, "Oh, still shitty he funneled himself gear though." I facepalmed.
If you have to split clear for gear to finish week one, then the fights are tuned too high. Min iLV should be 100% achievable.
lol.., Happy's raid experience this tier xD (almost like PF only players T_T..., in terms of how things can go wierd)
party finder for p8s p1 right now is total garbage honestly makes me miss peenax prog
Are those illegal markers I spot?!
I can only play a couple hours per day, I fear ill never get to experience end game content.
i hope the savage team designers never list to week 1 raiders though it's true that the job balance is wocky
You forgot the main gripe of P7S. The tankbuster is initialized on the castbar. Counterintuitive to what every tank main has come to learn, if you taunt at anytime during the castbar, YOU will get the tankbuster. Not the tank that had aggro when the castbar starts. I don't know if it's a bug or intentional, but I cannot recall any tankbuster in the history of this game that acted like this.
Isn't that intentional though? The tankbusters of p7s are either shared or stacked, and you would learn quickly how it works with invulns.
i think it's fine, the day 1 design makes these tb's brutal so having the extra cast time to provoke/cast mits is really helpful. It's different yeah but it's just like any other mechanic ingame.
E12S door boss and P6S are the same way, where the TB is initialized on the castbar. You actually learn this type of buster in the previous fight in the tier leading up to P7S, so I'm not sure how you got to P7S and still didn't know the doublebuster?
@@fredxu99 Eden's Promise is always top 2 threat double buster, can't change it. P6S's double buster timing is 100% not like P7S's. In P6S, if it's the shared cone TB, as soon as the castbar shows up, the OT can taunt and not take the TB. In P7S if you do that even at 90% condensed aero TB castbar, the OT will end up taking the TB. Go ahead and try it.
Been wondering how ya feel with this one. Felt like Midas all over again.
I think this Tier really illustrated how finely tuned the balance team needs to be OR the design limitations of specific jobs and how far you can push the laise a faire culture of raid composition in light of tighter dps challenges.
Unfortunately, even if the nerfs do mitigate the worries the design team has of excluding people, the public perception will not change any time soon. RIP MCH just hope you get a rework alongside AST and DRG in 7.0 and start learning that BRD or DNC rotation.
It will never be perfect
Your talking like this is something unforgivable it's really not a big deal and they acted so quickly that it never really affected most people
Yes some jobs need buffs but they aren't unplayably by any means also by the time most people reach p8s they will have enough gear to down him by any comp
@@justaman4887 the Japanese players literally banned paladin players from joining their raids groups. You weren’t allowed to join if you played paladin. Tough luck.
@@justaman4887 Gear always solves the issue, that isn't the problem. The problem is the player perception of specific jobs and comps as well as the fact that weaker players need those tiny edges to complete content.
@@Dennis-sv2de i didn't say it didn't effect people i said it never effected most people and they did act quickly on it
Did they fuck up? Yes
Was it something so huge that it's unforgivable? No
the fact that you even disclosed anything that happend with the group is (not bad just using what I am about to use for a lack of a better word) weird. Like...why should ANYBODY care about what your groups issues were...they weren't part of it
fuckin weird parasocial ppl, i dont get it either. Even some ppl in the comments already being fuckin smug about it. They really have some mental gymnastics like they were attacked by Happy somehow.
I kind of figured this would be a long one. Where'd I put my doritos.
I haven't been able to experience the other fights yet, devour is just that level of bullshit. Kills every group I've gotten with. If they slow it down by a tick, it'll go much smoother as the snapshot is off
Both patterns can be cheesed. People just over think it. You can use the first area as a relative north marker. For the circle pattern you start west, move into the first area he jumps in and then just stay there until you see him jump to west which will be directly next to you. Then you can follow him around but you have to be closeish to the middle. For the zigzag pattern you start south, wait for him to jump back to the first spot and then you run in a slightly curved line that's curved towards where he jumped from to the first spot and just stay there near the corner.
P8s Sounds like a real pain. I think l will get the mount through other means.
I couldn't disagree more about P7S. The usage of the arena is creative and fresh and I think the different fruit mechanics are really cool as well. Is it a bit backloaded? I guess, but I never once felt bored doing the fight.
Same, I dont really get why it should be borring. Slow and weirdly paced? sure, but I like the slower systematic approach for once and it's kinda enjoyable.
From the sounds of it The first couple might be okay to run in a PF but the rest I’ll have to run with help from my FC where things are more coordinated
I’ve had not problem doing 5-7 in pf and starting 8 seems doable when all use same strat
As a blm I don’t find p7s isn’t boring or slow lol. It’s got me thinking way more on how to optimize my rotation and positioning. Prob drives my static mad haha
People are ready skipping Cachexia2 and wars harvest week 2. Week 3 it's getting rediculous. I hate that all the good mechanics are at the end
#mondayswithmrhappy
10:15 i will GLADLY take the tree over that stupid bird, if i never do that fight again it will be too soon.
🎉
Cachexia 2 isn't even difficult. There's literally two patterns to worry about
I always have difficulty with the 3 encounter I have never cleared a teir and it's mainly cuz I can't get past the 3rd fight smh
Felt like 5+6 should have been switched, 5s took my group a few hours, 6s we did in like 3 pulls. 7s was a good fight, but hated how back loaded it was. DPS check on 7s was rough too in week 1. Hate 8s. Hate everything about it as a caster. So much movement, the healing requirements feel Janky and inopportune, there's just a ton going on and it's easy to miss stuff.
I like P7s =)
Didn't you get fed gear by Rin's group, then leave?
5 was much harder than 6 and 7. But also the snapshots on jumps are BS an I never wanna see that again. Made prog suck
You're a good dude, Happs.
Honestly think p6 and 7 are some of the worst fights they've made in a while, worse than anything in asphodelos or promise by far. Last fight I disliked as much as these was E7. Def agree 5 and 8 are bangers tho.
P6 is the definition of mid
This tier....wasnt fun at all for me
First three fights' dps checks are non existent and the mechanics in p6s and p7s move at a tectonically slow pace,not to mention how p7s is basically easier than fucking zodiark ex until you hit harvest.
P8s has been good which is the highest praise i can give this tier
By people that weren't involved
so basically get gud but i guess people actually hard content
Mr. Happy being smug about predicting the most formulaic game ever. Who could have predicted?
heh ya, when the game is this old. Some really easy predictions can be made.
Ca-kexia....Ca-kexia not chex....kex
sorry, it's officially cat chex.
E7S was nowhere near a hated fight???
Your criticisms especially for the 7th mission feel super inconsistent? You complain about the first half being disjointed and too easy then complain about the second half being too hard and frustrating... huh? Do you want it to be difficult or not?
I thought the missions this tier are actually all super fun. They have been therapeutic to detox from the mechanic vomit garbage that was dragon song ultimate which is just make 12 mechanics happen at once and make a personal fight with group consequences multiplied 8 fold.
I can see how as your job you may find some of these fights boring but as a tank or healer, these missions have been excellent. Perhaps it would be better to caveat your criticisms with "from a melee player perspective".
I use to like u
"And this is not a pun"....literally nothing about that statement was pun-like.