These videos are always so fun. I can't say I really care too much about which Batman omnis stay Evergreen but watching friends all go after each other like this is what makes comics great
In (a possibly tedious and over the top) Defense of Knightfall Knightfall is the greatest Batman event ever, as we watch Bane methodically tear Batman down until he is out of strength, and is easily broken. More than that, the story shows us that not just anyone can be Batman. Only someone with an unrelenting commitment to do the right thing, can work outside the law and not be perverted by the very evil that Batman is trying to eradicate. I wanted to comment on a couple criticisms levied against Knightfall during the livestream: 1. Omnidog criticized the story because Bane didn't take Batman on right at the beginning. Of course he didn't. Bane was a strategic thinker. He knows one never takes an enemy head on when they are at their strongest. To use a real world example, the Allies didn't invade Normandy in January 1942. They waited, to build up their strength, wear down the Nazis in Africa and Italy, and then hit the beaches of France in 1944. Bane methodically defeating Batman was what separated him from Doomsday (although I actually liked the Death of Superman story). Bane not only broke the Bat, he outsmarted him. 2. Lars criticized the art. I agree that DC art in the early 90s could be very flat compared to what was coming out of Spider-Man and the X-Men. However, this event had artists like Norm Breyfogle and Graham Nolan. Maybe they weren't as inventive with their use of layouts like Todd McFarlane, but it was still pretty solid and lot more dynamic than what we saw in the Superman triangle era (with the exception of the shrinking number of panels building up to the Death of Superman). 3. Omnidog criticized the choice of Azrael as Batman's successor. Yes, it was ridiculous, but the point of the story wasn't to make the sensible pick, but to show how badly the wrong Batman can screw things up. AND, DC resolved the issue of Dick Grayson not becoming Batman with Prodigal, an awesome story with a beautiful moment in the end when Bruce acknowledged Dick as his son. 4. Another criticism was the length of the story. I found Knightfall (I am including Knightquest and Knightsend here), to be engaging throughout. If Bruce came back six issues after Bane broke him, the story would not have been able to sufficiently make its point about the necessity of Batman needing to be a good, stable person. I think following AzBat on his slow descent into the violence he was trying to stop was set up well, and progressed to the point where the reader realized, "I don't just want the real Batman back, we need him back before this Azrael guy destroys himself and everyone around him." 5. At the end of Knightfall, we did not simply return to the status quo where Batman wore a new costume and nothing else changed. Batman seemed to truly be a better person at the end of this ordeal, and was going to try to be a better Batman, e.g., letting people help him, not pushing himself beyond his limits. Whether the post Knightfall era actually achieved this is another issue, but at least Knightfall attempted to change Batman, not just return him to how things were. If you have gotten this far, thank you for reading. I have been avoiding NMC this year because I have run out of comic book money, but I watched this video, and I had to respond. For me, outside of Year One, the Long Halloween/Dark Victory, and the Englehart/Rogers run in Detective Comics, this is my favorite Batman story: the story of a Batman, NOT a Batgod, falling, and then building himself back up again to save the day.
The whole "first time reader" question perplexes me mostly because when I started reading comics I sort of picked up books at random and let my brain fill in the gaps the more I read but I understand how it could be helpful.
Quick sidenote: Kid Omnidog's take about Capullo's place as a Batman legend in modern times. Yes, absolutely agree. He then asked who might be worthy of mention alongside his Bat book work in, let's say the last 10-15 years? Jorge Jimenez. I mean c'mon.
I'd argue adding the Superman/Batman Omnibus Vol. 1 mostly because it's one of the few Batman omnibuses I own but also it's a fun story that's kind of disconnected from the greater DC Universe.
Honestly not just omnibuses but generally if you’re a 6 year old kid golden age is not a bad shout as a babies first Batman book. It was really my gateway into this whole hobby, back when they were printed in the Batman chronicles trade paperbacks, I would borrow them from the public library and would just consume them. Honestly 1939-1943 is just a magical run similar to Spider-Man where you watch as most of the iconography for the character is figured out within the first four years. Honestly you can just stop when you get to 1944 and just read the issues when any new villains get introduced or the issues that Morrison directly references and your pretty set for that era. Honestly, Bronze Age Batman needs a collection because there are a lot of overlooked gems from 1970-1986 namely ‘Strange Apparitions’ (Detective 471-476) and the Gerry Conway run starting around 1980 going into Doug Moench is also very sound.
For me Gotham Central and Batman by Loeb and Sale are the best omnis. Got the Morrison's Batman run in Absolutes. Waiting for the Absolute Batman and Son...
This is educational in the sense that i was prepared to throw out the typical YT commenter top 10 list, and then have fun seeing how much it matches the content creators choices. But i was a touch ignorant of the metrics. This isn't 'best stories', it's runs of creator teams that are published by DC as a single work (or volumes) and can encompass multiple narrative arcs. Thus, since there isn't a Frank Miller omnibus to nominate, we have no DKR, etc, for example. Is that a correct assesment?
Batman by Loeb and Sale Batman by Miller (Year One and DKR) Detective Comics Rebirth No Man’s Land is really good but it takes up 3 omnis Death in the Family and Lonely Place of Dying era
I think i agree with Lars here, among the available candidates. All 3 works are legit great i'll say? And you could argue Hush is pulling up 3rd place!
I think for me it's Loeb/Sale, Grant Morrison vol. 1, and Capullo/Snyder vol. 1. Hard to argue with the writing across them. And you add the brilliant art and lettering and coloring. The art for Knightfall is just a mess, imo.
The list is regrettably missing Batman by Neal Adams omnibus regardless of the new colours (this omni is available already). The list suffers from recency bias with omnis like "Rise and Fall.." and "Grayson" included only because of trending authors like Tynion and King. In any case, more Bronze Age and Post-Crisis Batman omnis such as "Legends of the Dark Knight" are required in the future to create a better evergreen list for this character, which will probably leave out half of the titles mentioned in this evergreen list.
These are some of the best comic Livestreams on UA-cam period. Keep up the fun 😂
These videos are always so fun. I can't say I really care too much about which Batman omnis stay Evergreen but watching friends all go after each other like this is what makes comics great
It’s all about the fighting.
Another amazing stream of watching friends fight! Thank you for the reminder about voting for the DC Most Wanted Poll.
This was a lot of fun, always love these, another awesome stream everyone!
In (a possibly tedious and over the top) Defense of Knightfall
Knightfall is the greatest Batman event ever, as we watch Bane methodically tear Batman down until he is out of strength, and is easily broken. More than that, the story shows us that not just anyone can be Batman. Only someone with an unrelenting commitment to do the right thing, can work outside the law and not be perverted by the very evil that Batman is trying to eradicate. I wanted to comment on a couple criticisms levied against Knightfall during the livestream:
1. Omnidog criticized the story because Bane didn't take Batman on right at the beginning. Of course he didn't. Bane was a strategic thinker. He knows one never takes an enemy head on when they are at their strongest. To use a real world example, the Allies didn't invade Normandy in January 1942. They waited, to build up their strength, wear down the Nazis in Africa and Italy, and then hit the beaches of France in 1944. Bane methodically defeating Batman was what separated him from Doomsday (although I actually liked the Death of Superman story). Bane not only broke the Bat, he outsmarted him.
2. Lars criticized the art. I agree that DC art in the early 90s could be very flat compared to what was coming out of Spider-Man and the X-Men. However, this event had artists like Norm Breyfogle and Graham Nolan. Maybe they weren't as inventive with their use of layouts like Todd McFarlane, but it was still pretty solid and lot more dynamic than what we saw in the Superman triangle era (with the exception of the shrinking number of panels building up to the Death of Superman).
3. Omnidog criticized the choice of Azrael as Batman's successor. Yes, it was ridiculous, but the point of the story wasn't to make the sensible pick, but to show how badly the wrong Batman can screw things up. AND, DC resolved the issue of Dick Grayson not becoming Batman with Prodigal, an awesome story with a beautiful moment in the end when Bruce acknowledged Dick as his son.
4. Another criticism was the length of the story. I found Knightfall (I am including Knightquest and Knightsend here), to be engaging throughout. If Bruce came back six issues after Bane broke him, the story would not have been able to sufficiently make its point about the necessity of Batman needing to be a good, stable person. I think following AzBat on his slow descent into the violence he was trying to stop was set up well, and progressed to the point where the reader realized, "I don't just want the real Batman back, we need him back before this Azrael guy destroys himself and everyone around him."
5. At the end of Knightfall, we did not simply return to the status quo where Batman wore a new costume and nothing else changed. Batman seemed to truly be a better person at the end of this ordeal, and was going to try to be a better Batman, e.g., letting people help him, not pushing himself beyond his limits. Whether the post Knightfall era actually achieved this is another issue, but at least Knightfall attempted to change Batman, not just return him to how things were.
If you have gotten this far, thank you for reading. I have been avoiding NMC this year because I have run out of comic book money, but I watched this video, and I had to respond. For me, outside of Year One, the Long Halloween/Dark Victory, and the Englehart/Rogers run in Detective Comics, this is my favorite Batman story: the story of a Batman, NOT a Batgod, falling, and then building himself back up again to save the day.
LOVE your passion!
I agree so much with this. Very well put into words
These streams are so much fun and always the highlight of the month. Keep them coming!
I never knew about neurosurgeon Alfred! 📝
(Also, as always, this crew of people is amazing. I'm here more for the people than for the comics.)
You rock! Thank you so much!
Fun vid! Thank you! You all rock!
The whole "first time reader" question perplexes me mostly because when I started reading comics I sort of picked up books at random and let my brain fill in the gaps the more I read but I understand how it could be helpful.
I’m with you, as my first dc comics was Crisis 7. However my viewers have pointed out that times are different now. We have collected editions.
Gonna watch now to see how Batman: Phoenix Volume 1 ranks
1:36:40 to 1:38:00 is the best part of the stream! Peter was on absolute fire. He’s so quick witted
I love the arguing so much and at the end everyone praises everyone else. That's my type of friendship.
Seeing Knocked Loose mentioned on NMC is the crossover I didn't know I needed!
Well, now you found the second person who understands the reference because fandoms cross over.
Don't read a lot of Batman so this will be an interesting video for me.
My picks for a Batman Evergreen list
Batman: Black and White
Superman/Batman vol. 1
Batman by Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale
Quick sidenote: Kid Omnidog's take about Capullo's place as a Batman legend in modern times. Yes, absolutely agree. He then asked who might be worthy of mention alongside his Bat book work in, let's say the last 10-15 years?
Jorge Jimenez. I mean c'mon.
I'd argue adding the Superman/Batman Omnibus Vol. 1 mostly because it's one of the few Batman omnibuses I own but also it's a fun story that's kind of disconnected from the greater DC Universe.
I was thinking Omar would pick that over Batgirl, tbh
Honestly not just omnibuses but generally if you’re a 6 year old kid golden age is not a bad shout as a babies first Batman book. It was really my gateway into this whole hobby, back when they were printed in the Batman chronicles trade paperbacks, I would borrow them from the public library and would just consume them. Honestly 1939-1943 is just a magical run similar to Spider-Man where you watch as most of the iconography for the character is figured out within the first four years. Honestly you can just stop when you get to 1944 and just read the issues when any new villains get introduced or the issues that Morrison directly references and your pretty set for that era. Honestly, Bronze Age Batman needs a collection because there are a lot of overlooked gems from 1970-1986 namely ‘Strange Apparitions’ (Detective 471-476) and the Gerry Conway run starting around 1980 going into Doug Moench is also very sound.
For me Gotham Central and Batman by Loeb and Sale are the best omnis. Got the Morrison's Batman run in Absolutes. Waiting for the Absolute Batman and Son...
Batman by loeb
Batman by Morrison vol 1
Batman by Snyder vol 1
Damn, the most picked I don't have is Batman by Leob & Sale. Looks like I *NEED* to buy another omni.!!
I appreciate that Krisis is so obviously knowledgeable as is JESS
This is educational in the sense that i was prepared to throw out the typical YT commenter top 10 list, and then have fun seeing how much it matches the content creators choices. But i was a touch ignorant of the metrics. This isn't 'best stories', it's runs of creator teams that are published by DC as a single work (or volumes) and can encompass multiple narrative arcs. Thus, since there isn't a Frank Miller omnibus to nominate, we have no DKR, etc, for example. Is that a correct assesment?
Snyder / Capullo created a great visual design in Talon
Batman by Loeb and Sale
Batman by Miller (Year One and DKR)
Detective Comics Rebirth
No Man’s Land is really good but it takes up 3 omnis
Death in the Family and Lonely Place of Dying era
I think i agree with Lars here, among the available candidates. All 3 works are legit great i'll say? And you could argue Hush is pulling up 3rd place!
How is the Batman murderer/fugitive story? Is this omni pretty much a must buy?
If you are a Batman fan, trust me, it TOTALLY is!!! Was an excellent idea & well executed 😎
Thank heavens! Democracy has prevailed and thrown Knightfall into the abyss of oblivion where it belongs!
What are the creators thoughts on the death of Ed Piskor?
I think for me it's Loeb/Sale, Grant Morrison vol. 1, and Capullo/Snyder vol. 1. Hard to argue with the writing across them. And you add the brilliant art and lettering and coloring.
The art for Knightfall is just a mess, imo.
With their talk of Nightwing,. Can anyone tell me what they think is the best Nightwing story run?
Chuck Dixon's run is my favorite.
Probably going to be Chuck Dixon’s
Definitely CD’s run - get the compendium that just dropped, if you haven’t already!
Dixon, Seely and Taylor for me.
Knightfall is bad, sorry, Omar. 😂
I LOVE it! 😁
The list is regrettably missing Batman by Neal Adams omnibus regardless of the new colours (this omni is available already). The list suffers from recency bias with omnis like "Rise and Fall.." and "Grayson" included only because of trending authors like Tynion and King. In any case, more Bronze Age and Post-Crisis Batman omnis such as "Legends of the Dark Knight" are required in the future to create a better evergreen list for this character, which will probably leave out half of the titles mentioned in this evergreen list.
I didn’t like Knightfall