What Does “Most Valuable” Really Mean? [Deep Dive]

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  • Опубліковано 10 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 586

  • @rustybuckets
    @rustybuckets  7 місяців тому +29

    Go to sleeper.com or download the app, and use promo code Rusty and for a limited time you'll get up to a $500 match on your first deposit. Terms and conditions apply. See Sleeper’s Terms of Use for details. Currently operational in over 25 states. Check out Sleeper today!

  • @handeggchan1057
    @handeggchan1057 7 місяців тому +491

    "Jokic making the case for the MVP award on social media"
    He's more likely to win next year's Dunk Contest than do that

    • @sheyarjames4904
      @sheyarjames4904 7 місяців тому +52

      Jokic would rather make a case for his Horses to win their race...

    • @AtmosphericAtmosphere
      @AtmosphericAtmosphere 7 місяців тому +1

      You re wrong he most like to win another chip that is MVP...not circusant but guz who make histeammate better and is best when needed

    • @Youralwayswhining4367
      @Youralwayswhining4367 7 місяців тому

      Not the greatest arguments

    • @congsience2989
      @congsience2989 7 місяців тому +3

      most valuable pony, he's absolutely in

    • @handeggchan1057
      @handeggchan1057 7 місяців тому +3

      @@congsience2989 he should dunk over one of his horses (he gets injured and is out for the remainder of the season)

  • @i_fuze_hostages6
    @i_fuze_hostages6 7 місяців тому +277

    You make significantly better long form content than I could have imagined I think the split into this channel being long form and the 2nd channel being for 20 minutes or so has improved your videos a ton

    • @fortynights1513
      @fortynights1513 7 місяців тому +3

      It certainly leads to the channels having more distinct identities from one another

    • @mhead1117
      @mhead1117 7 місяців тому

      If you like him so much why don't you marry him?

  • @Jeffway24
    @Jeffway24 7 місяців тому +109

    The pan to Tim Duncan's feet in that one shot is diabolical LMAO

  • @HorizonOfHope
    @HorizonOfHope 7 місяців тому +277

    I am President of a regional power. I was about to oversee the construction of our glorious new super weapon.
    Then I saw: hour long Rusty Buckets.
    The regime can wait.

  • @fridgmanfrustle4376
    @fridgmanfrustle4376 7 місяців тому +83

    I love how reliably you can breakdown Rusty’s video essays into 70% basketball analysis and 30% critique of capitalism

  • @Tomtainius
    @Tomtainius 7 місяців тому +594

    Rusty it’s 2am here in the UK and you drop an hour-long banger on a topic I’ve been waiting to see you cover for ages!? I’m tryna go to sleep dude 😂

    • @Tomtainius
      @Tomtainius 7 місяців тому +56

      And the sponsor’s name is Sleeper? You’re just rubbing it in my face lmao

    • @wisefull
      @wisefull 7 місяців тому +8

      4 am in Ukraine, doing the same hehe

    • @franktuttor-ps3tc
      @franktuttor-ps3tc 7 місяців тому

      Just Wipe your mouth

    • @borislavgonkov1014
      @borislavgonkov1014 7 місяців тому +2

      Bro same but in Spain

    • @HaZZb97
      @HaZZb97 7 місяців тому +7

      Greetings fellow UK NBA fan!

  • @Georgiaboy_
    @Georgiaboy_ 7 місяців тому +34

    “Just because something is subjective doesn’t mean it’s meaningless”
    Love this quote ! I feel like ppl get this confused

  • @ritamariealan93
    @ritamariealan93 7 місяців тому +50

    I gotta say, I love the way you write your script and lay out everything. Word choice, flow, and organization is top notch!

    • @rustybuckets
      @rustybuckets  7 місяців тому +10

      Thank you so much!

    • @Remmy0930
      @Remmy0930 7 місяців тому

      Word choice and flow? What is he spitting bars? Jk lol. Rusty is great.

    • @Dezy623
      @Dezy623 7 місяців тому

      @@Remmy0930 great for falling asleep, takes 60 seconds to get out 15 words

  • @wreckfish3198
    @wreckfish3198 7 місяців тому +36

    As someone who's new to basketball (playing fantasy because my friends needed an 8th) I love your down to earth, non sensationalized videos. Always incredibly interesting and insightful.

  • @kiteracer
    @kiteracer 7 місяців тому +38

    “So Russ had his newly single Girl Boss moment…and we were all rooting for her.”
    Jesus Rusty, warn a brother next time lol 😅

  • @oldhamneal
    @oldhamneal 7 місяців тому +60

    Tired: Regular-season MVP
    Wired: Finals MVP

    • @spoodyR3
      @spoodyR3 4 місяці тому +1

      I find finals mvp worst it should be playoff mvp not just one series just seems unfair

    • @ultimateyagerman
      @ultimateyagerman 4 місяці тому

      ​@@spoodyR3no

    • @jasonugwu8326
      @jasonugwu8326 3 місяці тому

      @@spoodyR3Imagine a player averaging 40 PPG but getting swept and the other player avg 25 PPG but winning the whole thing as the best player. Would be way more unfair to the guy who won the championship tbh

  • @yaeevsthewrld3087
    @yaeevsthewrld3087 7 місяців тому +26

    After all that bro said “idk 🤷🏾‍♂️” and dipped 💀

  • @felipecouto1102
    @felipecouto1102 7 місяців тому +13

    At this point you became one of my favorite channels on youtube, not just for basketball but overall, the change in format was amazing and I really help it reflects in numbers rusty.

  • @cooperhayes1194
    @cooperhayes1194 7 місяців тому +12

    My biggest complaint is people treating the MVP like the scoring title

    • @spoodyR3
      @spoodyR3 4 місяці тому +3

      MVP way heavier tho..so it’s weird

  • @brayancatano136
    @brayancatano136 7 місяців тому +20

    My boy rusty went from content farm to full on NBA Documentary this was fire to watch 10/10

  • @meh7348
    @meh7348 7 місяців тому +372

    Let's be honest, it's really just a glorified Offensive Player Of The Year award.

    • @brodro8571
      @brodro8571 7 місяців тому +6

      Modern day yeah for the most part 😭

    • @alexanderboulton2123
      @alexanderboulton2123 7 місяців тому +38

      Well...offense is the most valuable THING in the NBA 😂

    • @ineveryuniverse3953
      @ineveryuniverse3953 7 місяців тому +26

      To be fair, it probably will ALWAYS be that way. The most basic and fundamental idea in basketball and most sports has always been the goal of scoring more points than the opponents. Scoring in itself is the most important aspect to gain for offense and basketball as a whole. But considering that, there is a reason why we consider more than just scoring and even winning in mvp conversations. Each player at the top of the discussion is one of the best scorers on some of the better teams (trying to consider Luka), so we factor in the rest of their stats, narrative, etc.

    • @Jamellii
      @Jamellii 7 місяців тому +6

      It’s a glorified employee of the year award**

    • @masonknowsball
      @masonknowsball 7 місяців тому +1

      I think Shai would shift the narrative on this, one of the most skilled defensive guards in the league.

  • @NT_Escanor
    @NT_Escanor 7 місяців тому +12

    I love the long form content that allows you to approach a subject from multiple sides and really flesh out your argument with evidence and narratives.

  • @davidroos935
    @davidroos935 7 місяців тому +8

    I’m a college student and these videos feel like a class seminar in THE BEST way

  • @JOIEGREY
    @JOIEGREY 7 місяців тому +3

    love the longer form content. the MVP being the “main character” point was a really good one

  • @hoodyfrank7405
    @hoodyfrank7405 7 місяців тому +3

    Man I think you have a great understanding of what’s important in sports. Great use of clips and delivered in a great story format. Plus that Russel Westbrook introduction made me smile ear to ear. Love it man

  • @vanshz8917
    @vanshz8917 7 місяців тому +8

    Bro you're easily making the best NBA content on the platform, loving the change to long form content

  • @GoldenRNB
    @GoldenRNB 7 місяців тому +7

    Thank God you changed your setup. This is so much cozier and chill. Feels better to watch.

  • @jankjaws9815
    @jankjaws9815 7 місяців тому +53

    It’s one of those awards where sometimes it’s spot on. The person who won it was completely deserving. On the other side of that coin it goes to someone who is still deserving but the voters for one reason or another don’t think so. Rusty puts it well with voter fatigue, but I think media narratives play a bigger role than people may admit.
    Edit: he essentially says the same thing lol.

    • @5115neo
      @5115neo 7 місяців тому

      So basically, “it matters when I want it to, like when a white person wins it, but it’s bullshit when I don’t want the person who wins it to win!”

  • @YumYumTV-wt4si
    @YumYumTV-wt4si 7 місяців тому +6

    Long time viewer here. I feel very sentimental about this channel because of the time I discovered it. Just wanted to say am glad these long videos have amazing scripts, understanding of context both in the NBA and the world in general, great video editing and music. Don't ever stop Rusty

  • @jto3314
    @jto3314 7 місяців тому +6

    I started really getting into the NBA during the 2016-2017 season. And if you weren’t watching OKC games at the time and seeing what Russ was doing I truly feel for you, he was the most exciting and spectacularly athletic player I’ve ever seen bar none. I remember staying home “sick” from school to watch his games

  • @snakexpert552
    @snakexpert552 7 місяців тому +40

    The thing I hate about modern MVP discourse nowadays is that players are getting penalized for playing on contenders with deep rosters or adequate help. Like if you want to win a championship, your MVP level player probably has an all star level teammate, but now thats suddenly "too much help" to be in MVP consideration

  • @benitofranklyn4237
    @benitofranklyn4237 5 місяців тому +3

    People always argue Wilt's 100pts game was made up, but they were counting points back then and writing down which jersey number scored how many points.

  • @g_l_o_o_m_y_y
    @g_l_o_o_m_y_y 7 місяців тому +3

    Man OKC Russ made me start watching hoops again. I had just got instagram at the time and i would always see the crazy shit he was doing that year. Russ was so much fun in his younger days. No one ran the court like him and no one played as hard. Him and KD in OKC was dope af

  • @KatarHero72
    @KatarHero72 7 місяців тому +5

    Hard agree on DWade. Man is the 3rd best shooting guard in NBA history, and is one of the best defensive players under 6'5 in NBA history. He's the definition of a player who was MVP caliber but never won the award because of circumstances out of his control. Having to contend with Nash, Shaq, Dirk, LeBron, and Kobe with MVP at his peak for the award. It's hard to win MVP even when having an all time season like 2008-09....because the Cavs won 23 more games with LeBron being the superstar despite Wade having better numbers (sans rebounds).

    • @fortynights1513
      @fortynights1513 7 місяців тому

      In his “If the MVP went to the best player” series from 2020, Jonny Arnett had LeBron only narrowly taking the 09 MVP over Wade.

    • @KatarHero72
      @KatarHero72 7 місяців тому +2

      @@fortynights1513 It makes sense though. As a Miami fan I am biased towards Wade.
      But LeBron carrying that team to a better record than the Big 3 Celtics, late 2000s Spurs, Kobe B2B Lakers, and Melo/AI nuggets is wild.
      I know Cleveland's defense was crazy but still, it's a wild thing that it happened.

  • @kostaVHjovanovic
    @kostaVHjovanovic 7 місяців тому +3

    every time it switches to Rusty i cant help but think ''why is a guy whos head is wider than both shoulders combined holding this basketball''
    nice vid

  • @juanmanuelmartinez3142
    @juanmanuelmartinez3142 7 місяців тому +3

    guys this is extremately good content, could be something you watch on a streaming platform or something, I absolutely love this, congrats to all the team, keep it up!

  • @grewdordon
    @grewdordon 7 місяців тому +2

    We’re loving the long-form content Rusty, please keep it up 🙏

  • @Ferris_v2
    @Ferris_v2 7 місяців тому +2

    This is crazy hard to stop watching even when I have to, banger video

  • @BzBuck
    @BzBuck 7 місяців тому +3

    I have been saying this about dirk being robbed!!! I love that you brought this up

  • @__kii6__
    @__kii6__ 7 місяців тому +5

    This might be your best documentary rusty keep going 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

  • @chriskong9292
    @chriskong9292 7 місяців тому +50

    Bro’s pushing out movies every month lol

  • @davidem759
    @davidem759 7 місяців тому +2

    There's a timeline wher Joel Embiid still wins MVP because the very fact of how much the Sixers suck without him shows how high his value is for the team and Adam Silver hand up giving the trophy to him on a hospital bed for narrative and entertainment purposes

  • @lucid5194
    @lucid5194 7 місяців тому +5

    The quick edit on Duncans fit 😂

  • @thermitebanana
    @thermitebanana 7 місяців тому +1

    Damn Jacob - such a slick and polished video.
    It's great to see you put out such weighty and high quality content

  • @igotkiwi
    @igotkiwi 7 місяців тому +1

    Ya this is the best NBA content out there. So easy to watch. You’re the Alt Shift X of Basketball in terms of quality

  • @fuzzyp
    @fuzzyp 7 місяців тому

    In depth, well thought out points coupled with an mvp metric breakdown that actually made sense. Great editing too! Keep up the excellent work!

  • @azayfhossain5713
    @azayfhossain5713 7 місяців тому +11

    Outro was peak 😂😂

  • @paksta
    @paksta 7 місяців тому +1

    First Rusty in-depth I've seen. Damn, dude you are really finding new gears here and I also like the shorter stuff. Go mate, go!

  • @derekp3820
    @derekp3820 7 місяців тому

    It’s so great to have you back to this long form stuff

  • @matthewthayer9316
    @matthewthayer9316 7 місяців тому +3

    There's another factor in SGA's favor that I don't think you mentioned. He's North American(Canadian). The last 5 MVPs have all been from other continents, and I think people are hungry for a less "foreign" player to win it. It normally wouldn't matter, but this race is so close that I think it matters a great deal.

    • @maniravsadhur8409
      @maniravsadhur8409 7 місяців тому +1

      That' probably part of the "narrative" factor, but true, there might be some foreigner fatigue.

    • @shorewall
      @shorewall 7 місяців тому +2

      Canadians are still foreigners to me, dammit! :D

  • @kdawgthechef2855
    @kdawgthechef2855 7 місяців тому

    You hit the nail on the head with people not relying on watching mainstream media for discourse. Overheard a guy watching your video on scoring in the elevator of my apartment.

  • @Mr.MooseTheGreat
    @Mr.MooseTheGreat 7 місяців тому

    Your vocabulary and presentation skills have advanced dramatically over the years! Thanks for putting out amazing content and I love the long-form documentary style man keep up the great work!

  • @calvinsomers1197
    @calvinsomers1197 7 місяців тому +7

    They should have named it the player of the year award. That’s basically how it is perceived already.

    • @ammonhurst3026
      @ammonhurst3026 7 місяців тому

      Word

    • @lazarperic4525
      @lazarperic4525 7 місяців тому +2

      ... that was always the point of the award, you give it to the guy who was the most valuable in the season - not for a damn 4 year stretch or his 10/15 years of legacy lol

    • @taustin4948
      @taustin4948 7 місяців тому

      Completely agree

    • @maniravsadhur8409
      @maniravsadhur8409 7 місяців тому

      Exactly, or player of the season. It could be framed as "which player will we remember most from this season?" - which doesn't necessarily align with the most impressive numbers.

    • @sikkouvol.1996
      @sikkouvol.1996 7 місяців тому

      are you seriously this stupid

  • @allank8497
    @allank8497 7 місяців тому

    By far the best video you’ve ever made Rusty! This is phenomenal work

  • @fortynights1513
    @fortynights1513 7 місяців тому +10

    3:42 I like the Wilt image there.

  • @BackWhereYouStarted
    @BackWhereYouStarted 7 місяців тому

    love Rusty's longer form stuff. wish it got more appreciation

  • @DabiDavs
    @DabiDavs 7 місяців тому

    Mfer brought up the hero's journey in a basketball convo, Rusty you're such a dork keep dropping these bangers

  • @redpharaoh4527
    @redpharaoh4527 7 місяців тому +1

    Yo Rusty, thought this was like ten minutes, stoked to see that it's over an hour long, tho have to watch after class now

  • @trashtai
    @trashtai 7 місяців тому +5

    based on the title alone I know this is going to be a multi-platinum banger

  • @Apsburner9717
    @Apsburner9717 7 місяців тому +36

    An hour-long video on the night where I have to wake up early the next morning. Fuck it🤷🏾‍♂️

  • @wem_iii
    @wem_iii 7 місяців тому +1

    Perfect ending Rusty

  • @KazDM
    @KazDM 7 місяців тому +7

    Was that Mr. Plinkett? I didn't notice, but my brain did.

  • @smittydog16
    @smittydog16 7 місяців тому +6

    My biggest problem is voter fatigue I think jordan and Lebron fans can both agree that both players should have way more mvp idc ab voter fatigue idc if Lebron won the award 20 times I want to see the player who deserved it and had the best numbers win the mvp idc how many times he wins and if a 9 seed is averaging 35 10 5 idc he deserve it over the 2 seed 25 8 2

  • @cadenhyde9510
    @cadenhyde9510 7 місяців тому +13

    wake up babe, rusty dropped another hour long BANGER

  • @chugcanthoop
    @chugcanthoop 7 місяців тому +6

    There’s no narrative around Luka cuz no one watches the mavs 😂 if people realized how depleted the roster was for the first half of the season I think there would be atleast some narrative there, there were several games where guys like AJ Lawson and Greg Brown were STARTING (I know what you’re thinking, WHO?!?) but yah it’s a really tough sell if they stay at 7 or 8 for sure even as a mavs fan I would think that’s a bit flukey even considering how close the 8th seed is to the 4th seed atm

  • @nickgamble280
    @nickgamble280 7 місяців тому +1

    Thank you for recognizing sga's greatness

  • @fortynights1513
    @fortynights1513 7 місяців тому +4

    Value and the NBA MVP.
    Certainly topics worth debating. Some say best player on a top seed, others say the best statistical player on a good team in context.
    Question out of curiosity (I ask because I get a variety of responses), who is the best player who never finished top five in an NBA MVP vote in their career.
    Here are the players who have finished top five (counting those who did it in the ABA):
    ABA Players (24):
    Connie Hawkins
    Doug Moe
    Mel Daniels
    Larry Jones
    Willie Somerset
    Jimmy Jones
    Rick Barry
    Spencer Haywood
    Roger Brown
    Bob Verga
    Zelmo Beaty
    Charlie Scott
    Dan Issel
    Artis Gilmore
    Billy Cunningham
    Julius Erving
    George McGinnis
    Ron Boone
    Joe Caldwell
    Willie Wise
    Bobby Jones
    Mack Calvin
    James Silas
    David Thompson
    NBA Players (98):
    Bob Pettit
    Paul Arzin
    Bob Cousy
    Mel Hutchins
    Dolph Schayes
    Bill Sharman
    George Yardley
    Bill Russell
    Maurice Stokes
    Elgin Baylor
    Wilt Chamberlain
    Oscar Robertson
    Jerry West
    Sam Jones
    Jerry Lucas
    Nate Thurmond
    Lenny Wilkens
    Dave Bing
    Wes Unseld
    Willis Reed
    Kareem Abdul Jabaar
    Walt Frazier
    John Havlicek
    Dave Cowens
    Tiny Archibald
    Bob McAdoo
    Bob Lainer
    Elvin Hayes
    Bill Walton
    Pete Maravich
    George Gervin
    Walter Davis
    Moses Malone
    Bob Dandridge
    Larry Bird
    Dennis Johnson
    Dan Roundfield
    Robert Parish
    Gus Williams
    Magic Johnson
    Sidney Moncrief
    Bernard King
    Isiah Thomas
    Terry Cummings
    Dominique Wilkins
    Hakeem Olajuwon
    Michael Jordan
    Kevin McHale
    Charles Barkley
    Clyde Drexler
    Karl Malone
    Patrick Ewing
    David Robinson
    Scottie Pippen
    Shaquille O’Neil
    Penny Hardaway
    Grant Hill
    Tim Hardaway
    Glen Rice
    Gary Payton
    Tim Duncan
    Alonzo Mourning
    Allen Iverson
    Jason Kidd
    Kevin Garnett
    Chris Webber
    Tracy McGrady
    Kobe Bryant
    Jermaine O’Neil
    Peja Stojakovic
    Steve Nash
    Dirk Nowitski
    LeBron James
    Chauncey Billups
    Chris Paul
    Dwight Howard
    Dwayne Wade
    Kevin Durant
    Derrick Rose
    Tony Parker
    Carmelo Anthony
    Blake Griffin
    Joakim Noah
    James Harden
    Stephen Curry
    Russell Westbrook
    Anthony Davis
    Kawhi Leonard
    Isaiah Thomas
    Damian Lillard
    Giannis Antetokounmpo
    Paul George
    Nikola Jokic
    Luka Doncic
    Joel Embiid
    Devin Booker
    Jayson Tatum
    Shai Gilgeous-Alexander

    • @howcliche
      @howcliche 7 місяців тому

      I would say Kyrie Irving, who in flashes is the one of the most dangerous people to play the game

    • @fortynights1513
      @fortynights1513 7 місяців тому +1

      @@howclicheKyrie. Interesting choice. Haven’t heard him before.
      He has averaged 25+ points and 6+ assists a few times, so stats aren’t exactly an issue for him.
      But the thing that hurt him in this context is that he has not typically been the best player on his team, and unlike some of the players on here who were the second best on their teams under normal circumstances (like Pippen, McHale, or Havlicek in 1973), Kyrie hasn’t really played on any team that was said to have played one of the best regular seasons ever, and the best team he was the best player on is arguably the 2017-18 Celtics who had a 55-27 record and were the second seed.
      Interestingly, Kyrie Irving has somehow never received an MVP vote in his career.
      Also, the point guard in Boston the season prior, Isaiah Thomas would finish fifth in the MVP vote, and the team won two fewer games, but were the one seed in their conference.

    • @fortynights1513
      @fortynights1513 5 місяців тому +1

      @@howclicheWe can now add Jalen Brunson to that list of top five finishers.
      And among current players who don’t appear on that list, I say Anthony Edwards is quite likely to finish top five at least in the future should he continue to play at a high level

  • @nerdzone
    @nerdzone 7 місяців тому +1

    You really returned to form as of late. Good job!

  • @hbfagen8793
    @hbfagen8793 7 місяців тому +6

    This video makes me want the NBA to have a player top 100 list similar to the NFL. I wonder how often the MVP would actually be the top spot.

    • @willpurvis2561
      @willpurvis2561 7 місяців тому +3

      I feel like if they did a list like that every year, they would have to basically put the mvp as number 1. Otherwise to the casual public it could devalue the award

  • @dadncaleb
    @dadncaleb 7 місяців тому

    I just started watching after the split. So I don’t know anything different. However, I must say your content is among the most interesting, intelligent and well researched I have seen on the platform. I truly appreciate your opinion and I watch your videos very intently to make sure I understand the full weight of the topic. I’m very glad to have found your channel, keep up the outstanding work!

  • @benitofranklyn4237
    @benitofranklyn4237 5 місяців тому +2

    I would have always liked there to be either a "Best Player Award" instead of MVP or the Scoring Title being as highly praised as the MVP. The notion of Most Valuable kind of leaves it up to the marketing goals of the NBA who to pick.

  • @theredguy92
    @theredguy92 7 місяців тому +3

    Tatum getting bonus points for being the best player on the best team and being in Boston while Jokic doesnt get any for being defending champ and finals mvp seems a little meh. Good video though.

    • @shorewall
      @shorewall 7 місяців тому +2

      He's modeling how the voters think, not what he thinks. He's trying to predict the MVP, not deciding his own.
      He spent the video talking about how the voters decide on MVP. If he wanted to choose who he thought should be MVP, I think he would have more and different criteria.

  • @dominic64tblightning24
    @dominic64tblightning24 7 місяців тому +2

    As always, a thought-provoking video from you. 👌🏻

  • @TherealMatthias1998
    @TherealMatthias1998 7 місяців тому +23

    47:06 he nailed that shot on my 19th birthday. Thank you Westbrook

  • @NiteOwlVibes
    @NiteOwlVibes 3 місяці тому +2

    Narratives need to go away, MVP needs to come from an efficiency perspective. And both sides of the ball need to be weighed equally. Im sick of people voters turning it into an offensive award.

  • @Iso_SSB
    @Iso_SSB 7 місяців тому +2

    The ending was the best answer I could’ve asked for 😂

  • @scottydrierwertyhg
    @scottydrierwertyhg 7 місяців тому +1

    These longer videos are so good

  • @TheRussianZombie
    @TheRussianZombie 7 місяців тому +3

    Jokic should have 3peated and more then likely will win it again this year, voter fatigue is annoying

  • @jaysenduverney7696
    @jaysenduverney7696 7 місяців тому +1

    Rusty, you should make a video talking about the peaks of certain players: drose mvp season, westbrook triple double king era, james hardens peak era, lebrons heat era, allen iverson mvp season, wilts 50pt season, stephs breakout seasons, etc)

  • @joelman1989
    @joelman1989 7 місяців тому +1

    The writing in this video was… I need a good word… exceptional!

  • @kenlen8029
    @kenlen8029 7 місяців тому

    Haven't finished yet but this is such a great video so far. I've seen many of your vids but this one hits different. Well done.

  • @claudiofamilia2428
    @claudiofamilia2428 7 місяців тому +1

    Great video! Really love the topic!

  • @chimpochimpay
    @chimpochimpay 7 місяців тому +1

    I really like your long-form content

  • @thatonefan_1371
    @thatonefan_1371 7 місяців тому +1

    hour long vid on a weeknight? i’m here for it

  • @q.7556
    @q.7556 7 місяців тому +9

    About to sit down and eat this is going to be peak

  • @thecrisnav
    @thecrisnav 7 місяців тому

    I’m super enjoying this longer form content

  • @erstimus5439
    @erstimus5439 7 місяців тому +6

    I think the rise of advanced stats is understated in how MVP conversations have shifted away from winning. The allure is that they offer a context-independent, objective measure of a player’s impact, and make it easier to argue that a player is more impactful than another despite fewer wins. A big focus of Jokic’s 2022 case was that he led the NBA in a lot of advanced stats.
    It’s often difficult to look at box-scores and see how things like turnovers should be factored in, or whether having more points outweighs more rebounds, etc, or how unquantifiable things like defense can be weighed in. It’s also led the debate to be leas focused on scoring alone than in eras past.

    • @fortynights1513
      @fortynights1513 7 місяців тому +4

      If advanced metrics were around throughout NBA history, and we used VORP to determine MVP’s (which is available since 1974), you’d find a lot of the best players getting more MVP’s:
      Kareem would have seven (1974-1980)
      Dr. J and Magic would take 81 and 82,
      Then Larry Bird would win four straight from 1983-1986, followed by seven straight MVP seasons from MJ from 1987-1993.
      David Robinson takes the two MVP’s in 94 and 95, followed by MJ again in 96 and 97.
      Karl Malone would get 1998 and 1999’s awards.
      Then in the four season stretch of 2000-2003, we get Shaq, Vince Carter, Duncan and Tracy McGrady.
      After that, KG in 2004 and 05, and LeBron would get eight straight MVP’s from 2006-2013.
      Then Durant in 2014, James Harden in 2015, Stephen Curry in 2016, Russell Westbrook in 2017, LeBron again in 2018, Harden in 2019 and 2020, and Jokic would be finishing up his fourth straight MVP season.
      Of those mentioned, I believe only Vince Carter led the league in VORP, and never finished top five in an MVP vote in his career.

    • @lazarperic4525
      @lazarperic4525 7 місяців тому +1

      No, big focus was on:
      - him playing without Murray and MPJ
      - having no real 2nd scoring option
      - having guards that are dogwater awful on the defensive end
      - similar stats compared to Giannis and Embiid and somehow having a better +/- than those 2
      - ending up with similar records as Giannis and Embiid, idk about individual Ws aka the ones they were part of
      - first ever with the "2000 pts - 1000 reb - 500 ast" season
      It was "because of the advanced stats" for those media guys and fans who looked at their ppg and seeding and decided that he was nowhere near those two so those stat nerds had to pull out whatever they could to explain all that stat stuff to them. Even that "ppg argument" can be looked at from this perspective:
      "Even tho he had fg% on his side, Jokic had 3pts less because of FT attempts - if he had more FTs he'd be around 30ppg that season, at least."
      There ya go cuh, and ngl in that season I actually hoped that they'd make history and give it to both Jokic and Embiid lol ✌️

  • @TheLazerBird
    @TheLazerBird 7 місяців тому +6

    I do appreciate how close it is between jokic and sga compared to jokic and embiid. I unfortunately have agendas to push and think jokic is still winning his 3rd

    • @onlyfacts3178
      @onlyfacts3178 7 місяців тому +1

      sGA shouldnt even be in this conversation...

    • @sikkouvol.1996
      @sikkouvol.1996 7 місяців тому

      How can you have eyes and think SGA is even close to Jokic Luka or Giannis???

    • @nenola504
      @nenola504 7 місяців тому

      @@sikkouvol.1996mvp is not whos better Thas yall problem it go to the most valuable player that season not whos better and also nothing to do with playoff success

  • @JoshWebster327
    @JoshWebster327 7 місяців тому +2

    You should’ve mentioned the IMDB award which tried to take the human error out of it and tried to give an award to the statistically best player

  • @fobreeze4436
    @fobreeze4436 7 місяців тому +1

    Keep flirting with the camera angles!! I love it

  • @zsomborszigeti6797
    @zsomborszigeti6797 7 місяців тому +1

    My problem with Bill's MVP as an example is that at that time the players were the one that voted on MVP and most players hated Wilt, that is clear from almost any player that played in that era.

  • @drewengel7073
    @drewengel7073 7 місяців тому +3

    I feel that if Ant had slightly better stats, he would be in the MVP race, the narrative and the winning is currently there, all that's missing is the stats. There is no better narrative than emerging face of the league leads the worst franchise in North American Sports to their best or second best record. Its the perfect story that NBA wants to push, all that's missing are the stats.

  • @shafiksunderani4230
    @shafiksunderani4230 7 місяців тому

    You are the MVP Rusty of NBA content

  • @judemcrobbie4123
    @judemcrobbie4123 7 місяців тому +1

    39:23 “navigating the grey area is how we find the truth in areas defined by their subjectivity” gotta be the coldest line on this channel

  • @Obfluss.S
    @Obfluss.S 7 місяців тому +1

    Why is Chuck's case listed as an example of disrupting the trend of the award valued winning most if his numbers is comparable to MJ that year and his team won more? Just because it stopped MJ from 3-peating?

  • @failzapper
    @failzapper 7 місяців тому +2

    almost thought you was going to go all das kapital when you asked what is value lmaooo

  • @theycallmemr.bigchest3203
    @theycallmemr.bigchest3203 7 місяців тому +10

    I can’t believe they didn’t name an NBA MVP in 97’. Weird? Probs we’re just too busy to bother.

  • @StancedHellcat
    @StancedHellcat 7 місяців тому +2

    Imo MVP is the person who impacts their team the most while also bringing them to the highest level (with a few exceptions such as Westbrook literally averaging a triple double while dragging the thunder to the playoffs or jokic having one of the greatest statistical seasons of all time) but unfortunately since the mvp voting is amongst people like Kendrick Perkins or Stephen A it kinda just ends up being “Who do I think had the most aura this season”

  • @benjespina
    @benjespina 7 місяців тому +1

    What gives it away that you weren't watching the Nash first MVP award in the moment is that you missed out on the greatest argument that was being used to justify his candidacy - he was a new player on a recently bad team and his presence turned his team's record. This same point was raised to bolster Jason Kidd's case - the Nets were 26-56 the year before he arrived and the following season they were 52-30. Kidd would of course lose to Tim Duncan and there was a lot of bitterness about it.
    The Suns were 29-53 pre-Nash and then became a 60 win team (62-20). That shift spelled out VALUE even if his stats did not pop out. VALUE = making your teammates better/ making your team better. Bonus points if your team was truly terrible.
    There was also a big narrative of Nash stepping out of Dirk's shadow to become the best player on a very good team.
    Nash's stats were better in the second MVP season and that sort of launched the momentum for his win. *he has better stats than last year, so I guess he should win again (?) The Spurs had 9 more wins (1st in the West and just 1 game behind the Pistons) that year but Duncan was only 7th in the voting - he had 18ppg 11rpg that year.
    It's amazing how nuance gets lost through the years. Great work on this video still! :) I love watching these long think pieces.

    • @RJDavePhin
      @RJDavePhin 7 місяців тому +1

      Also, didn't Amar'e Stoudemire miss nearly the entire '06 season? Nash still led the Suns to 54 wins (8 wins less than when he did have Amar'e in '05)... so, would that be considered a narrative boost for Nash in his second MVP season?

    • @benjespina
      @benjespina 7 місяців тому

      @@RJDavePhinYes! That is correct! Thanks for bringing it up.

  • @cobrallama6236
    @cobrallama6236 7 місяців тому

    Wow. Is this a Rusty Buckets video or The NBA Storyteller? Terrific work! Keep it up!

  • @el1tefire252
    @el1tefire252 7 місяців тому +1

    8am and boy got me saying “oh yea he dropped another banger”

  • @dobronx4771
    @dobronx4771 7 місяців тому +1

    Best video you ever made yet.

  • @jrodninja081
    @jrodninja081 7 місяців тому +1

    There's an easy way to fix this:
    A 3,2,1 vote on every game. Tally the votes up at the end of the season. Most votes is your MVP...

  • @GibranCamus-kr2dc
    @GibranCamus-kr2dc 7 місяців тому +2

    Nice. Been waiting on you to do an axiological analysis. Your past discussions of MVP have conflated descriptive with prescriptive. Hoping you can go full prescriptive bc the way narrative influences MVP, in my irrelevant opinion, renders MVP a poor metric for evaluating a player's metric. (Same with all awards that involve votes-they're bottom-rung in evaluating a player's relative greatness.)
    Cheers sir