Now I understand why they called it a great helmet. It wasn't great in the "awesome" sense of the word, it was great in the "Christ on a bike, that thing is massive" sense.
Great helms of this style were oversized because they had to fit over an additional helmet. This is not the result of oversized reproduction, its in keeping with the documented sizes of mid-late 14th century survivals like the Pembridge Helm, the Royal Armouries example and the Edward of Woodstock Helm.
They're hugging it out, like "Why can't our humans just talk this out? So many young men dying in the field over the disputes of old men in castles! Woe is the state of the world!" At which point they both stop, because someone said 'Woe'.
Now ye explained me one of Mount and Blade arts when there are two guys fighting on the horses and one of them has his great helmet hanging down. Thanks
I just thought to express my admiration for your historical knowledge, your factuality, your clarity and your presentation in general, I am just a city boy living in London and I find your videos enjoyable, best wishes Ian
I stumbled upon the video you made of yourself timing how long it takes to put your armor on because I am playing a paladin in a DND session and I was curious how long my character would take to armor up after he awoke in the morning. Several videos later and I'm subbed. This is really interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
For some reason I always liked the flat top style great helmet more than the round ones. I know the round top is better at protecting due to glancing, but to me the flat top just looks better.
I have to agree, my own great helm is a flat top. Very similar in design to the one here only mine only has breathing ports on the left side of the face
I wonder how effective the suspension of the great helm is at mitigating concussive force to the head, when being walloped on the head with a mace I'd be glad of having the two layers with some give between them.
It is frightening to think about men wearing this armor in battle. I imagine it had the same sort of effect of a tank. I just think of how I would deal with men wearing this stuff without guns. Awesome.
have you heard about a game called chivalry medieval warfare? if someone atacks you, you get realy scared. also that's just a game, amazing in real life what would happen.
I find that in my opinion the great helm is better than the houndskul helmet. With this one you get much more vision than with that cone sticking out. I know it gives better protection and breatheability, but there's to little vision. The maximilian helmet is the best helmet in my opinion
Its quite interesting how the evolution of Western European helmets went from the 11th to the 14th century. You started with the open faces nasal bar helmet, goes to the chapel de fer, then goes to a chapel de fer with a faceplate, which in turn became a great helm. Once the great helm came into place it was realized that it was not convenient to wear all the time so they have a cervelliere and a bascinet to wear under it when more vision was preferrable. Finally they went with a bascinet with movable visor as a standalone defense, after which all Western European enclosed helmet types have a movable visor. Couldnt smiths in the 11th century simply fit the nasal helmet with a movable visor and called it a day? Of course hindsight bias is always useless ;) Cheers
+John Huang Nice summary, Imagine the hinge technology, probably wasn't up to the job or even thought necessary or sensible back when they first enclosed the helms, then the steel got better and the hinges stronger so it became sensible to fit. Obviously that's just my conjecture!
Or just make a plate gorget that rests on shoulders and protects up to the nose from front and sides? Doesn't look like much of tech or skilled involved.
So glad I found out about your channel recently. Detailed, quality, and concise videos about the topic you're talking about, and so far you haven't disappointed. Keep it up!
Thank you so much for these videos. They corrected quite a lot of misconceptions (acquired from tv documentaries and movies) I had about medieval armor. It is great to see in such detail why and how certain armor was produced and used.
In a lot of cases it would be discarded after the initial cavalry charge, so getting it off quickly is important which is one reason we may not see any evidence of a chin strap. Sometimes it's also better to have your helmet knocked off by a lance (the helm itself would be retained by your cuirass chains if you're wearing them), then having all of that force transferred to your head and neck (either killing your or unhorsing you).
@@KnyghtErrant What is the actual evidence for that it was discarded after the charge? I have heard somewhere that this is simply speculation, but I might be wrong. Apparently Henry V wore a great helm as late as the Battle of Agincourt, where it saved his life. And he hardly participated in a cavalry charge there. A properly bespoke great helm is supposedly nowhere near as restricting as some people claim, so what would be the reasons for discarding it? As war is not sport, people tend to value protection quite heavily.
@@Osvath97 It _is_ speculation. The thinking is mostly rooted in helms that were specifically intended for wear over bascinets, which is not true of all helms (it would obviously be foolish to remove your _only_ helmet in the middle of a fray), and in many cases discarded might be a mischaracterization (although certainly possible in extremis). A lot of 14th century helms were equipped with provisions for attachment to chains that allowed the helm to be slung over the shoulder and retrieved when needed. Being able to reduce the burden down to a single helmet seems to have been important to them. Helms do offer great protection and are not as restrictive as bad modern reproductions would lead people to believe, but many of them are pretty terrible when it comes to vision and breathing, especially when compared to the underlying bascinet. In those cases where the helm _is_ worn over a bascinet, some people believe that in certain circumstances the need for unimpeded vision and air might supersede the need for the superior protection offered by the helm, and the fact that it was designed to be removable while still retaining an underlying helmet lends support to the idea.
@@KnyghtErrant Well, when it comes to the later double-helmed ones, that makes more sense. Even so, the need for layered protection with an extra helm might have been a factor? Of course, if the chains are coincidental to the development of the secret-helm then it does lend credence to that it was designed to be removable while still in combat. But still, it feels like the need to easily remove it when out of immediate combat (but when still on the battlefield) feels more likely than something like a very specific "charge helm". I guess that is one of my main complaints, the concept of charging in, then when engaged in melee you would somehow throw the helmet off while also scrambling to draw your secondary weapon. However, it feels plausible that it may be desirable to remove the helmet even in certain combat situations, but apparently standing in a tight formation on foot, facing other knights on foot, while having a huge missile advantage, was not one of them for Henry V, despite it seeming a perfect kind of situation. No cavalry charge on either side and no sizeable amount of missiles aimed at him. Of course, that is only an n = 1, but it might be an indication. Though, it was the layered protection saved his life, apparently, which might be why he wore it. I also find arguments about what people today find difficult to use to be a bit suspect, most of the time. When most civilians try on a full modern military combat kit they find it almost inconceivable to fight in. Fighting in a great helm was probably a skill, and with the more limited ventilation physically demanding, which may perhaps be a reason we almost exclusively see man-at-arms use them. And thereby a status symbol, probably why great helms essentially became the "heraldic helmet". That does of course not mean that you would always want to fight in one as a knight, even the King of Norway fought with a kettle hat once in the early 1200s.
@@Osvath97 I'm curious what source states that Henry V was wearing a great helm specifically and not a great bascinet at Agincourt? I'm familiar with the story of his crown being damaged by the Duke of Alencon, but I'm under the impression that despite earlier association, Henry's funerary helm has long been divorced from that story by most scholars. Dr. Toby Capwell is pretty clear that the helm, regardless of whether it was actually worn by Henry at any point is definitively a jousting helm. Regardless, remember that Henry was famously shot in the face 12 years earlier, so even he didn't always think layering was necessary in actual combat.
Your Channel is great! I came because Matt Easton from scholagladiatoria recommended this channel and so far I'm impressed with your very concise and detailed explanations. I hope this channel gets more popular and you can keep pumping out videos!
I really do love these variations of The Great Helm, that goes over the Bascinet with no visor, but I still prefer the regular ones of the earlier centuries for simple esthetic purposes, but I have seen some smaller depictions of a leather & or wool cap with straps worn underneath like the bomber ones from WW II or early football/rugby, placed under the chainmail coif before the helm was put on, do you also wear something like this when wearing your Bascinet?
Under a mail coif an additional textile coif is often worn to keep the mail off the hair and skin, but it's largely unnecessary in a bascinet. Virtually all surviving bascinets have holes pierced around their perimeter for sewing in an integral textile suspension liner, negating the need for an additional textile arming coif. I do have a video on helmet liners if you're interested - ua-cam.com/video/itO64ZBX1jU/v-deo.html
Great video! I came here on Matt Easton's recommendation. I made a great helm recently (nowhere near the level of quality of the one you've shown, but it's my first piece of plate armor), and while I love it, its deficiencies became clear quite quickly... It's a beautiful design nonetheless.
It's a shame that I'm just discovering these videos now. The articulation on the gauntlets, in particular was fascinating. Now, seeing that helmets weren't just a metal hat that you wear on your head, I'm engrossed in the entire armor systems.
A question in regards to Great Helms. The Great Helms with horns and shapes on the sides of the helm, which from my understanding was popular with German knights. What material were they made of and how were they attached?
Light carved hardwoods, molded leather and even papier mache from my understanding, but like +ultraboy222 said a lot of that was for tournament use, ceremonial, or funerary.
That was really interesting! I learned a lot. I notice that the aventail hangs substantially from the chin. I have the feeling that a historical version would have gathered a little more underneath the chin to reduce this (as mentioned by Lindybeige in one of his coif videos).
+Arioch IV Much like coifs, historical aventails come in a wide variety of shapes. You have some surviving mail very fitted around the chin, but on the actual bascinets we have with surviving mail, they look more like what you see in the video (here's an example of a surviving original aventail on its bascinet (www.pinterest.com/pin/449515606530388945/)
Knyght Errant, I love your videos they are very well thought out and presented. I'm a fan. If I may opine from personal experience. You stated at approximately 14:35 that it wouldn't be good for the helm to transfer force to the shoulders. It is in fact the best consequence to happen if struck a strong blow from above. One is wearing good shoulder and body armor. When struck, the suspension gives/stretches allowing the helm and force to be transferred into the body armor and effectively dissipated. One hears it but it is of no consequence. If properly fitted, the helm rides about one finger width above your armor. This allows for good head movement. As you can see from your wonderful presentations of helm pictures, the helms are low in the front and back, arcing over the shoulders. The helm you were wearing, sat very near to your shoulders. If you would have shrugged, the helm would have slightly lifted. This is in fact the test to see if your helm is properly seated. I have fought full contact with steel weapons for years. When struck by a 7 foot poleaxe (happens very frequently #russianaxskill) it is merely very loud and not debilitating. I would very much enjoy meeting you at one of our steel fighting events. I think you would enjoy it greatly. For those interested, we can be found by searching Historic Medieval battle or HMB. Also battle of nations. There are tons of video for your enjoyment here on youtube. Cheers and keep up the good work.
Thank you! I'm in full agreement. This is why a Great Bascinet or stechelm is superior in protection compared to most any other helmet as that is it's primary mode of protection (taking the head and cervical spine out of the harm's way), however, as you said, it's all predicated on the body armor being designed to marry with the helm itself so by extension it matters _when_ we're talking about. I would estimate that the 'pembridge' style of late 14th century Great Helm is probably the first style of helmet that took advantage of such a principle as it saw the first styles of body armors that could accommodate (especially since rigid back defense was finally catching up to the developing single piece breastplates), but it wasn't really until the early 15th century when the principle began being taken full advantage of.
Now I finally know why they are called 'great' helmets! :D I wasn't expecting it to be this huge, because I hadn't known about them being worn over another helmet. Thank you for educating me on this. That suspension system inside of the great helmet is ingenious! It looks like it could also be adjusted for a perfect fit by tightening the inner strap that is connecting the leather pads. Very clever craftsmanship.
An interesting combat technique at 2:18 in the group to the right, the left swordsman has managed to grab the arm of the one to the right, before stabbing him with his sword.
I think think a great helm was my first helmet and by golly did I feel like the most powerful guy ever when I put that thing on. Like major confidence booster
I always wondered about the setup of the helm in William Longespee's funerary effigy. Are there other examples of that coif-over-helm style depicted anywhere? Has anyone tried to reproduce this yet?
I thought the great helm also dealt with the flat top problem by having them wear a second helmet like an arming cap helmet underneath was I wrong in thinking that?
i always wandered why my greathelm swiveled on my head even with the chin strap fascened, cuz i don't have a bascinet, gonna have to add that to the list, personally, i don't feel like a lot vision is blocked by the greathelm, i see pretty good out mine
Your Videos are really very good showing just how careful our ancestors were to protect themselves . I live in England and have studied examples of armour. You present 'living' examples very well. I am of Manx Blood. May I why do you show the Legs of Man on your laptop ? Many thanks Graham
+Knight Errant very cool man I love this video, but how many hits with a mace will it take to kill a guy in the Great helm. Also do all Knights wear arming cap and chainmail hood with their helmets
Well... no knight is going to stand there and let someone continually beat them over the head with a mace, but the idea is that the shape of the helmet helps shed the blow and of course you have another helmet on underneath. No, you wouldn't wear a padded cap and mail hood under all of those layers.
Another great video answering my questions. Did the great helm fade out because they realized how much more convenient it was to hinge a face plate on a bassinet as opposed to carrying two helmets and slinging a huge helm on your back? Also, I've heard that the use of knights in warfare became obsolete because of the effectiveness of longbows at Agincourt. Why do you suppose helmets continued evolving after the early 15th century? Tournaments?
Hi Ian, two questions: The knight at 2:10, was he not wearing a padded coif of that shape underneath the mail coif rather than a helmet? I think they also did this very well in the 1952 movie Ivanhoe: www.modaruniversity.org/Blackmaille32_files/image001.jpg Also, would you not wear a padded coif underneath the bascinet?
+Al-Malik Al-Ashraf Khalil It was a pretty common convention in the 13th century to start wearing helmets like the cervelliere and smaller flat top helms *under* the coif for some reason.
+Knyght Errant I think the mass of the coif and way mail like to sink helps hold the helmet in place when arranged that way. You see alot in the morgan bilble, kettle helmets have hard time staying in one place on the wearers head.
2:18 How is it possible that a great helm was cut by a sword? Isn't it impossible? Why do early great helms have flat top? Armor makes clearly knew that dome shape is better at deflecting blows, as seen in the nasal helm.
Unless the helmet was defective or made of inferior quality iron or steel, it should be pretty difficult to cleave into a helmet. You have to understand though, that manuscript images are very often biblical or allegorical (or both) in nature, so they may intentionally be showing exaggerations of reality in order to get a point across to the reader who would also recognize something as a 'superhuman feat of strength' when looking at the illustration.
@@dimitrizaitsew1988 I have studied XII century, France. Forgive my poor broken English. We see flat top appears in 1180-1190. Sometimes with just nasal. "Complete" helmet is more 1200. But it was used with big kite shield. Steel used was low carbon (as our modern "mild steel"). I think problem was : 1) resist to a *very* strong blow made by a XI-XII type sword. A flat helmet will slightly deform on hit and will not contact to skull head 2) resist to... spear used under arm. If a spear hit on your shield, it can bounce and land on top of your helmet. From front. Flat top shape will add strength. 3) Normally, you avoid to hit a strong helmet with your sword directly. It will nick your knighty blade for no result. Helmet will be attacked with spear, arrows, crushing weapons... and strong (and cheap !) pole arms (price is same than a simple tool). These pole arms appears later... when you need your helmet more pointy to deflect it.
I wonder if a type of later greathelm(like the frog mouth) could've been used as an outer helmet that rests on shoulders attached to the breastplate and the visor would be oriented in a way to allow view angles +/-100 degrees by rotating head withing the helmet. The greater extension and greater weight(and thus rigidity via supporting ribs) would allow to take blows from maces, warhammers and polaxes which wouldn't translate directly to the head but rather your whole body.
A lot of later helms like the frog mouth (and even other types of helmet like the great bascinet) were bolted or strapped directly to the cuirass and supported by the torso to produce the effect you describe.
I know i am late to the party buut anyways: @2:21 we see four persons fighting. Three of them are obviously injured. Is this artistical freedom or did swords actually do penetrate maille and/or arming caps?
I like your channel, lindybiege's channel is also good but he gets spontaneous which is not a bad thing but your seem calmer when you explain. Good job mate!
I also came here from the Scholagladiatoria channel. The the suspended fitting of one helmet on top of the other is quite interesting, but considering getting hit by a lance, is it not still very possible that the force would turn the great helm to one side and leave you blind? Considering how narrow the view-slits are, I'm also impressed that not every movement of the head would make it oscillate just far enough to block one's vision. Looking forward to the other videos.
+Serpent@Eden It's likely that many of these helms had chinstraps to mitigate your concern. Some recent scholarship has turned up some obscure references to thongs being used to secure the helm in place (also in the case of a bascinet in one reference). There is an account of a tournament joust where one of the knights is caught cheating by using a weak thong to secure his helm so that the helm would fly off and not unhorse him. This implies that normally, a more secure method for keeping the helm on was used or it wouldn't have been worth mentioning. I hope to do a video on this sub-topic in the future.
+Serpent@Eden In the SCA where I live there was a guy who used a large enclose helmet (bascinet with bar grill I think) with a suspended fitting he had put on himself. One blow to the top of the head with a rubber poleaxe and down he went. The suspension fitting was not part of the accepted minimum requirements, so he was responsible. Makes me wonder if suspension fittings were ever that popular, since they can injure the wearer extremely easily if the blow comes down wrong.
Oisin Lee The suspension in this case is intended only to be worn over another helmet. It sounds like the mishap you're describing in the SCA was a similar suspension worn directly on the head. I think therein lies the danger.
Older video, but i hope someone knowledgeable sees my question and knows an answer to it. With the great helm on the table, i'd think that because the top piece of the helmet goes inside the next piece and that piece goes inside the lowest part, those edges could offer a place for the blade to hit and transfer more energy downwards to the head. Is there any reason for this specific construction, or would it be possible to have the helmet be done in a way where the top part is fastened to the outside of the next and so on? This way, when the helmet is hit with a downward strike (that i imagine is more common than upward hit), there'd be only the ends of the studs to help a sword transmit energy more easily, letting the sword slide down towards the plates and mail covering the knights shoulders.
Keep in mind these are primarily cavalry helmets, although potentially useful on the ground as well, they are thought to mostly be used for the cavalry charge and then slung over the shoulder or discarded when the fighting got in close. This would make downward blows a lot less common than upward or level blows as they're more commonly going to be deflecting lance impacts and spears from the ground.
Thanks for the reply. I failed to remember these being mostly cavalry helmets so the picture i had in my mind of two guys wearing these and hitting each other with swords while on foot was wrong.
In as much as my Dr would like me to avoid a 10th concussion and 5th KO I'm looking very strongly at either a Helm/Greathelm combo and then tell all shots by sound, or a Klappavisor bacinet with a suspension harness backed up by anticoncussion padding & sorbothane. Thoughts?
The first type of helmet I got to wear ad use in armored sparring. One of my overall favorites. Despite it's drawbacks, it's still an awesome piece of wargear Also, it looks epic.
Other than the Henry V example shown in the video, do you know of any extant helmets which exhibit features between those of the Great and Frogmouth Helms?
I have yet to find an available high-quality reproduction of a barbute to demonstrate for the show-and-tell portion of my videos, but I definitely want to cover them.
Knyght Errant great! Maybe you could answer a question in the mean time? Most of the helmets I've seen in your video have a canvas padded looking helmet suspension inside. I've a reproduction barbute which has a leather liner very similar to the one for this great helm. I'd assumed it was just a different style/lower quality, but having seen the leather one here I was wondering if perhaps folk also wore additional helmets under a barbute??
As far as I know, none of the liners survive in any extant barbutes, but I would expect their liners to be very similar to a sallet. The survivals generally have holes drilled around the crown for rivets, then a leather band should be attached to the inside, and a textile quilted liner sewn to that band. I would not expect a period barbute to have leather lobes like a great helm.
I noticed in tapestries, sometimes steel is portrayed as gray or white, but other times it appears blue or brown. Is this because the steel of different armors were made or tempered differently, or was this simply a stylistic choice of color for the illustrator?
+TheSpaghettiKnight The palette available to manuscript illuminators was not precise enough for getting accurate color representation of real objects. Another interesting thing about color in manuscripts,, especially when it comes to representing metals, is that they often used real silver leaf to indicate steel. Over time the silver tarnishes and appears black or muddled brown, when in period it would have been a shiny silver color.
I have a question: where there such things as visored sugarloaf helms? I've done research and there are representations (effegiees, painteings, etc) of those but there aren't any complete finds of that kind of helm so that puts myself in doubt if they are real or just "Medieval Hollowood"
+Max The Gaming Man There are enough depictions of visors on surgarloafs (sugarloaves?? ;) ) across enough sources that I think it's ok to interpret them as something that likely existed. There are no surviving sugarloaf helms of any style at all, so there's nothing to compare it to, all we have is the artwork unfortunately.
Were there any chin straps on these helmets? They seem like there would be problems with keeping them in place when struck, especially thrusts to the face.
+Adam Whitlach Good question! Other styles of helmets, like kettle helms and sallets have dedicated rivets on the helmet itself intended specifically to secure a leather chin strap. Bascinets and Great Helms have no such dedicated structure. There are no artistic representations that definitively show a chin strap on great helms or bascinets, but like you say, there's a practical element to this. There are a couple obscure accounts from tournaments that talk about a knight cheating by using a very light thong to strap on his helmet so that the helmet will fly off when he's struck and prevent him from being unhorsed. This implies that *normally* they would wear something stronger to secure their helmets, but this is specifically in a tournament context. That being said, if there were chin straps on great helms or bascinets, they were likely integrated into the linings or suspensions, not the helmet itself.
+Knyght Errant I imagined that bascinets made to be made with a greathelm would be fairly light and thin, in comparison to one made as standalone defense. How thick and how heavy is this particular one, and how did it compare to your own houndskull one? How good is your vision and breathing with the greathelm on? Could you imagine fighting in a foot melee with it on? How did it compare with your houndskull bascinet?
Hey I hope someone could answer my question. Was there an option that knight or any warrior used only a leather or woolen coif, a chainmail coif on it and the great helm on top of it (or some close combination, not sure of the proper names) instead of the secret helmet?
is this bascinet, worn underneath the great helmet, of the same type as worn with the pigface visor? (except for the pivot to attach the pigface ofcourse) Ps, has the video "How a man shall be dressed for combat" (the one where you put on the armour step by step) been removed? I really used that video often to see the details of armor parts.
That particular one can't mount a visor, because as you noted, it has no pivots, but it's overall shape is not unlike a bascinet that _could_ have a visor mounted on it. If worn with a visor you couldn't wear the great helm anymore though. Even if the visor fit inside of the great helm, getting the two pairs of eye slits to line up would be a nightmare. I did remove the 'How a Man Shall Be Armed' video (well, I set it to private, I didn't delete it) because I no longer stand by some of the interpretations in that video. The arming clothes have some serious issues, and despite my best efforts to put annotations all over the video I think it was still giving people the wrong impression. I will be re-making the video with my current kit and hopefully higher production value when able.
Let me ask you something, I'm reading Niketas Choniates and according to his words the knights of the 4th Crusade were "clad in armour", at that time - the very beginning of 13th century - plate armor wasn't available as far as I know, so they must have been dressed in mail, except for their helmet. Am I correct?
Henry the V'a helmet had no breaths, that would imply the helmet was not intended for long-term use would it not? Perhaps great helms would only be worn during intense moments such as cavalry charges or arrow fire and would be slung back at all other times?
Could it be that the Great Helm was used for advancing against arrows and then taken off when in close combat? Seems the most logical to me, but I would like to know if there is any record of how this combination was used.
+Thiago Monteiro That is what a lot of people think, that the great helm was used for the initial cavalry charge to defend against projectiles, lances etc... and then it may have been discarded in the melee.
how robust are the suspensions on these? it seems like the great helm would be able to slide across into your vision if it somehow broke or were they meant to be used more like a visor that you would remove if you were on foot and in melee?
I can't say I've ever heard of the suspension failing before (in modern use or historical accounts). They will wear out over time and need to be replaced, but that would be part of the normal maintenance of the helm. A lot of the evidence does suggest that the helm would be removed after the initial charge and the close-in fighting would just utilize the underlying bascinet. Just keep in mind that bascinets (and most other medieval helmet types) also have their _own_ suspension liners within (ua-cam.com/video/itO64ZBX1jU/v-deo.html)
It seems to me that while people complain about limited vision, this may mean that it's designed for a direct charge then may be thrown over the shoulder then relying on the other for protection in the Mele
Ian, did medival helmets have chin straps? Or what was holding them in place? I imagine that a very well fitted helmet + suspension usually works great without. But what prevents the helmet from simply falling off when, let's say you trip or even fall off a horse, or any other violent mishap.
+lalucre1803 Certain helmets, like kettle hats and sallets have dedicated rivets designed to hold chin-straps in place. Helmets like the bascinet have no such structure, and in artwork a chinstrap on a bascinet or great helm wouldn't really be visible, so it's hard to say. If a chin-strap was incorporated into these types of helmets it would likely be attached directly to the liner, but no chin-straps on bascinets survive. There is an obscure account of a tournament where a knight 'cheated' by securing his bascinet with a weak thong that broke on impact so his helmet would fly off rather than unhorsing him. If that was worth mentioning, it's likely that they *normally* used something more secure to hold the helmet on, but this is specific to a tournament setting and we know that sometimes things were configured specifically to the tournament that you would not use in warfare. So long story short, we don't know for sure. In the case of the great helm, later great helms would be bolted directly to the breastplate for tournaments, but if you think about, some might say you have an advantage in warfare to get your great helm knocked off rather than being unhorsed or killed outright. You'd still be left with a bascinet :)
Knyght Errant thx for your answer. I've just watched your Bascinet video. Would you say, that from you personal experience, your bascinet sits well enough without a strap?
lalucre1803 It stays on pretty well without a strap. If a lance caught it under the snout it could definitely be knocked off though, but it would be pretty tricky for it to 'fall off' from any kind of normal moving around.
Another great video, do you think that something like a great helm would only be carried around if the person knew they were going into battle, or did they roam the country side with it hanging off their shoulder (or on top of their head/in their saddlebags)?
+zarbran While I don't know for sure, I would guess that people wouldn't keep their great helm slung over their shoulder unless they expected to need it on short notice.
I heard you like helmets, so here's a helmet for your helmet.
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You know what the frogmouth helm was held together with?...
Ribits!
That made my day
You took the leap and made the pun, truly ribbeting
Some people just want to watch the world burn.
*laugh track*
why
Now I understand why they called it a great helmet. It wasn't great in the "awesome" sense of the word, it was great in the "Christ on a bike, that thing is massive" sense.
Yes, great as in big! :)
gso619 no most modern reproductions are oversized like that one.
Great helms of this style were oversized because they had to fit over an additional helmet. This is not the result of oversized reproduction, its in keeping with the documented sizes of mid-late 14th century survivals like the Pembridge Helm, the Royal Armouries example and the Edward of Woodstock Helm.
I will never get over "Christ on a bike"
In Hot weather it become’s a head oven.
2:44
At least the horses are getting along
horse combat I didn't know that
I know lol, was just a joke as they look like they're hugging
They're hugging it out, like "Why can't our humans just talk this out? So many young men dying in the field over the disputes of old men in castles! Woe is the state of the world!" At which point they both stop, because someone said 'Woe'.
See, this is why UA-cam comments need a high-five button. :D
@@knightshousegames That's actually very witty. This website doesn't deserve you.
Didnt know horses would descend into grappling matches when their owners got dismounted in the fight...
Battle horses are vicious...
Nah man, those horses were just sharing a brotherly hug
@@franciosdeaeruiu7555 yeah, they didn't ask to be there. Just poor victims of circumstance. But at least they got those neat saddles to wear.
Now ye explained me one of Mount and Blade arts when there are two guys fighting on the horses and one of them has his great helmet hanging down.
Thanks
2:52 ... damn, the dude on the bottom left is having a bad day.
It's just a flesh wound!
D:
Luckily they had bandages back then.
@@fanfanthomas9688 'tis*
Holy shit, you're the medieval armour version of Forgotten Weapons to a T. Awesome.
They’re both called Ian too lol
2:46 Why are those horses hugging each other?!
PS: great work, as it is customary.
I just thought to express my admiration for your historical knowledge, your factuality, your clarity and your presentation in general, I am just a city boy living in London and I find your videos enjoyable, best wishes Ian
Thank you very much! I really appreciate it.
I stumbled upon the video you made of yourself timing how long it takes to put your armor on because I am playing a paladin in a DND session and I was curious how long my character would take to armor up after he awoke in the morning. Several videos later and I'm subbed. This is really interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
I'm here to design very unique and specialized armor for my character, making sure it's designed logically
This is the problems with these videos about historical weapons and armors, once you started you can't stop
For some reason I always liked the flat top style great helmet more than the round ones. I know the round top is better at protecting due to glancing, but to me the flat top just looks better.
@Kshitij Raj no
It has more of a crusader look to it
Everyone *agreed with* that
I have to agree, my own great helm is a flat top. Very similar in design to the one here only mine only has breathing ports on the left side of the face
@@gabriel300010 thats because in the first and second crusade, the flat top great helm was favored among crusaders
I wonder how effective the suspension of the great helm is at mitigating concussive force to the head, when being walloped on the head with a mace I'd be glad of having the two layers with some give between them.
It is frightening to think about men wearing this armor in battle. I imagine it had the same sort of effect of a tank. I just think of how I would deal with men wearing this stuff without guns. Awesome.
have you heard about a game called chivalry medieval warfare?
if someone atacks you, you get realy scared.
also that's just a game, amazing in real life what would happen.
Strength of a tank, skill of a Green Beret.
I find that in my opinion the great helm is better than the houndskul helmet. With this one you get much more vision than with that cone sticking out.
I know it gives better protection and breatheability, but there's to little vision.
The maximilian helmet is the best helmet in my opinion
+Just a talking taco What would YOU know? You're just a taco.
Andrew Forrest No one has eaten him yet. Maybe he wears a great helm?
Its quite interesting how the evolution of Western European helmets went from the 11th to the 14th century. You started with the open faces nasal bar helmet, goes to the chapel de fer, then goes to a chapel de fer with a faceplate, which in turn became a great helm. Once the great helm came into place it was realized that it was not convenient to wear all the time so they have a cervelliere and a bascinet to wear under it when more vision was preferrable. Finally they went with a bascinet with movable visor as a standalone defense, after which all Western European enclosed helmet types have a movable visor. Couldnt smiths in the 11th century simply fit the nasal helmet with a movable visor and called it a day? Of course hindsight bias is always useless ;)
Cheers
+John Huang Nice summary, Imagine the hinge technology, probably wasn't up to the job or even thought necessary or sensible back when they first enclosed the helms, then the steel got better and the hinges stronger so it became sensible to fit. Obviously that's just my conjecture!
+bren cav The hinge only needs to be a couple of rivets, so I don't think that would have been a technological limitation.
exactly
The reason there were no close helmets during 1000's its either they do not need to because of massive shields, or lack of technology
Or just make a plate gorget that rests on shoulders and protects up to the nose from front and sides? Doesn't look like much of tech or skilled involved.
I always like the look of classic great helms like this!
So glad I found out about your channel recently. Detailed, quality, and concise videos about the topic you're talking about, and so far you haven't disappointed.
Keep it up!
Wow... I never knew that the Great Helm was worn over another helm. It is really doubling up.
Thank you so much for these videos. They corrected quite a lot of misconceptions (acquired from tv documentaries and movies) I had about medieval armor.
It is great to see in such detail why and how certain armor was produced and used.
12:29 How do you tie down the great helm to your self, while you wear it?
So that, it does not get knocked off while fighting?
In a lot of cases it would be discarded after the initial cavalry charge, so getting it off quickly is important which is one reason we may not see any evidence of a chin strap. Sometimes it's also better to have your helmet knocked off by a lance (the helm itself would be retained by your cuirass chains if you're wearing them), then having all of that force transferred to your head and neck (either killing your or unhorsing you).
@@KnyghtErrant What is the actual evidence for that it was discarded after the charge? I have heard somewhere that this is simply speculation, but I might be wrong. Apparently Henry V wore a great helm as late as the Battle of Agincourt, where it saved his life. And he hardly participated in a cavalry charge there. A properly bespoke great helm is supposedly nowhere near as restricting as some people claim, so what would be the reasons for discarding it? As war is not sport, people tend to value protection quite heavily.
@@Osvath97 It _is_ speculation. The thinking is mostly rooted in helms that were specifically intended for wear over bascinets, which is not true of all helms (it would obviously be foolish to remove your _only_ helmet in the middle of a fray), and in many cases discarded might be a mischaracterization (although certainly possible in extremis). A lot of 14th century helms were equipped with provisions for attachment to chains that allowed the helm to be slung over the shoulder and retrieved when needed. Being able to reduce the burden down to a single helmet seems to have been important to them. Helms do offer great protection and are not as restrictive as bad modern reproductions would lead people to believe, but many of them are pretty terrible when it comes to vision and breathing, especially when compared to the underlying bascinet. In those cases where the helm _is_ worn over a bascinet, some people believe that in certain circumstances the need for unimpeded vision and air might supersede the need for the superior protection offered by the helm, and the fact that it was designed to be removable while still retaining an underlying helmet lends support to the idea.
@@KnyghtErrant Well, when it comes to the later double-helmed ones, that makes more sense. Even so, the need for layered protection with an extra helm might have been a factor? Of course, if the chains are coincidental to the development of the secret-helm then it does lend credence to that it was designed to be removable while still in combat. But still, it feels like the need to easily remove it when out of immediate combat (but when still on the battlefield) feels more likely than something like a very specific "charge helm". I guess that is one of my main complaints, the concept of charging in, then when engaged in melee you would somehow throw the helmet off while also scrambling to draw your secondary weapon. However, it feels plausible that it may be desirable to remove the helmet even in certain combat situations, but apparently standing in a tight formation on foot, facing other knights on foot, while having a huge missile advantage, was not one of them for Henry V, despite it seeming a perfect kind of situation. No cavalry charge on either side and no sizeable amount of missiles aimed at him. Of course, that is only an n = 1, but it might be an indication. Though, it was the layered protection saved his life, apparently, which might be why he wore it.
I also find arguments about what people today find difficult to use to be a bit suspect, most of the time. When most civilians try on a full modern military combat kit they find it almost inconceivable to fight in. Fighting in a great helm was probably a skill, and with the more limited ventilation physically demanding, which may perhaps be a reason we almost exclusively see man-at-arms use them. And thereby a status symbol, probably why great helms essentially became the "heraldic helmet". That does of course not mean that you would always want to fight in one as a knight, even the King of Norway fought with a kettle hat once in the early 1200s.
@@Osvath97 I'm curious what source states that Henry V was wearing a great helm specifically and not a great bascinet at Agincourt? I'm familiar with the story of his crown being damaged by the Duke of Alencon, but I'm under the impression that despite earlier association, Henry's funerary helm has long been divorced from that story by most scholars. Dr. Toby Capwell is pretty clear that the helm, regardless of whether it was actually worn by Henry at any point is definitively a jousting helm. Regardless, remember that Henry was famously shot in the face 12 years earlier, so even he didn't always think layering was necessary in actual combat.
Your Channel is great! I came because Matt Easton from scholagladiatoria recommended this channel and so far I'm impressed with your very concise and detailed explanations. I hope this channel gets more popular and you can keep pumping out videos!
+usaid alfatih Thank you and welcome!
+usaid alfatih Me too.
+Daniel Billington Me three!
+Knyght Errant I really like your delivery Ian. Have you heard of the channel forgottenweapons? Both of you guys are very similar lol
same
great helm , great video!
That. Is one sweet looking helmet you've got there on the table.
*Really* nice looking.
I really do love these variations of The Great Helm, that goes over the Bascinet with no visor, but I still prefer the regular ones of the earlier centuries for simple esthetic purposes, but I have seen some smaller depictions of a leather & or wool cap with straps worn underneath like the bomber ones from WW II or early football/rugby, placed under the chainmail coif before the helm was put on, do you also wear something like this when wearing your Bascinet?
Under a mail coif an additional textile coif is often worn to keep the mail off the hair and skin, but it's largely unnecessary in a bascinet. Virtually all surviving bascinets have holes pierced around their perimeter for sewing in an integral textile suspension liner, negating the need for an additional textile arming coif. I do have a video on helmet liners if you're interested - ua-cam.com/video/itO64ZBX1jU/v-deo.html
Honestly, in a cavalry charge, I would feel more protected with a great helm and a bascinet underneath it than with just a hounskull.
Very informative. Thanks. A proper Great Helm is not only very large but cleverly designed.
Great video! I came here on Matt Easton's recommendation. I made a great helm recently (nowhere near the level of quality of the one you've shown, but it's my first piece of plate armor), and while I love it, its deficiencies became clear quite quickly... It's a beautiful design nonetheless.
It's a shame that I'm just discovering these videos now. The articulation on the gauntlets, in particular was fascinating. Now, seeing that helmets weren't just a metal hat that you wear on your head, I'm engrossed in the entire armor systems.
13:00 he kinda looks like the French taunter from Monthy Phyton and the Holy grail.
Such calm vibes in these videos subscribed
A question in regards to Great Helms. The Great Helms with horns and shapes on the sides of the helm, which from my understanding was popular with German knights. What material were they made of and how were they attached?
Light carved hardwoods, molded leather and even papier mache from my understanding, but like +ultraboy222 said a lot of that was for tournament use, ceremonial, or funerary.
What decade were the very earliest examples of this bascinet and great helm combination seen? Congratulations and keep up the good work!
That was really interesting! I learned a lot.
I notice that the aventail hangs substantially from the chin. I have the feeling that a historical version would have gathered a little more underneath the chin to reduce this (as mentioned by Lindybeige in one of his coif videos).
+Arioch IV Much like coifs, historical aventails come in a wide variety of shapes. You have some surviving mail very fitted around the chin, but on the actual bascinets we have with surviving mail, they look more like what you see in the video (here's an example of a surviving original aventail on its bascinet (www.pinterest.com/pin/449515606530388945/)
This is insanely cool.
Knyght Errant, I love your videos they are very well thought out and presented. I'm a fan. If I may opine from personal experience. You stated at approximately 14:35 that it wouldn't be good for the helm to transfer force to the shoulders. It is in fact the best consequence to happen if struck a strong blow from above. One is wearing good shoulder and body armor. When struck, the suspension gives/stretches allowing the helm and force to be transferred into the body armor and effectively dissipated. One hears it but it is of no consequence. If properly fitted, the helm rides about one finger width above your armor. This allows for good head movement. As you can see from your wonderful presentations of helm pictures, the helms are low in the front and back, arcing over the shoulders. The helm you were wearing, sat very near to your shoulders. If you would have shrugged, the helm would have slightly lifted. This is in fact the test to see if your helm is properly seated. I have fought full contact with steel weapons for years. When struck by a 7 foot poleaxe (happens very frequently #russianaxskill) it is merely very loud and not debilitating. I would very much enjoy meeting you at one of our steel fighting events. I think you would enjoy it greatly. For those interested, we can be found by searching Historic Medieval battle or HMB. Also battle of nations. There are tons of video for your enjoyment here on youtube. Cheers and keep up the good work.
Thank you! I'm in full agreement. This is why a Great Bascinet or stechelm is superior in protection compared to most any other helmet as that is it's primary mode of protection (taking the head and cervical spine out of the harm's way), however, as you said, it's all predicated on the body armor being designed to marry with the helm itself so by extension it matters _when_ we're talking about. I would estimate that the 'pembridge' style of late 14th century Great Helm is probably the first style of helmet that took advantage of such a principle as it saw the first styles of body armors that could accommodate (especially since rigid back defense was finally catching up to the developing single piece breastplates), but it wasn't really until the early 15th century when the principle began being taken full advantage of.
Yes, this idea reach a pinnacle with the advent of the great or grand bassinet.
Now I finally know why they are called 'great' helmets! :D I wasn't expecting it to be this huge, because I hadn't known about them being worn over another helmet. Thank you for educating me on this.
That suspension system inside of the great helmet is ingenious! It looks like it could also be adjusted for a perfect fit by tightening the inner strap that is connecting the leather pads. Very clever craftsmanship.
An interesting combat technique at 2:18 in the group to the right, the left swordsman has managed to grab the arm of the one to the right, before stabbing him with his sword.
Excellent video.
such a nice looking helmet.
I think think a great helm was my first helmet and by golly did I feel like the most powerful guy ever when I put that thing on. Like major confidence booster
the Necks these guys must've had, I couldn't imagine the weight of two relatively large helmets on ones neck, not to mention the Aventail, Dang.
Excellent video enjoyed and learned alot.I hope you make video about sallet one day and it's variations.
Awesome work as always Ian!
ok I checked but didnt see my biggest question (I may have missed it) at 2:49 whats with the horses in the tapestry???
I always wondered about the setup of the helm in William Longespee's funerary effigy. Are there other examples of that coif-over-helm style depicted anywhere? Has anyone tried to reproduce this yet?
I thought the great helm also dealt with the flat top problem by having them wear a second helmet like an arming cap helmet underneath was I wrong in thinking that?
i always wandered why my greathelm swiveled on my head even with the chin strap fascened, cuz i don't have a bascinet, gonna have to add that to the list, personally, i don't feel like a lot vision is blocked by the greathelm, i see pretty good out mine
Your Videos are really very good showing just how careful our ancestors were to protect themselves .
I live in England and have studied examples of armour. You present 'living' examples very well.
I am of Manx Blood. May I why do you show the Legs of Man on your laptop ?
Many thanks
Graham
+Knight Errant very cool man I love this video, but how many hits with a mace will it take to kill a guy in the Great helm. Also do all Knights wear arming cap and chainmail hood with their helmets
Well... no knight is going to stand there and let someone continually beat them over the head with a mace, but the idea is that the shape of the helmet helps shed the blow and of course you have another helmet on underneath. No, you wouldn't wear a padded cap and mail hood under all of those layers.
Knyght Errant
thanks man I love ur channel, did u already see the ten terryfying facts about knights by mind warehouse. Well either way thanks
X Infinity Yes, I've seen that video and it's absolutely horrible :)
Knyght Errant 1 HOUR TO TAKE OFF ARMOR LOL
This is one of my favorite helms, I am going to get one once I move into my apartment.
Another great video answering my questions. Did the great helm fade out because they realized how much more convenient it was to hinge a face plate on a bassinet as opposed to carrying two helmets and slinging a huge helm on your back?
Also, I've heard that the use of knights in warfare became obsolete because of the effectiveness of longbows at Agincourt. Why do you suppose helmets continued evolving after the early 15th century? Tournaments?
Dear Sir Ian, I wish to ask do you have a video on pauldrons or splinted armor?
Detailed and informative, thank you.
Hi Ian, two questions: The knight at 2:10, was he not wearing a padded coif of that shape underneath the mail coif rather than a helmet? I think they also did this very well in the 1952 movie Ivanhoe: www.modaruniversity.org/Blackmaille32_files/image001.jpg
Also, would you not wear a padded coif underneath the bascinet?
+Al-Malik Al-Ashraf Khalil It was a pretty common convention in the 13th century to start wearing helmets like the cervelliere and smaller flat top helms *under* the coif for some reason.
+Knyght Errant I think the mass of the coif and way mail like to sink helps hold the helmet in place when arranged that way. You see alot in the morgan bilble, kettle helmets have hard time staying in one place on the wearers head.
2:18
How is it possible that a great helm was cut by a sword? Isn't it impossible?
Why do early great helms have flat top? Armor makes clearly knew that dome shape is better at deflecting blows, as seen in the nasal helm.
Unless the helmet was defective or made of inferior quality iron or steel, it should be pretty difficult to cleave into a helmet. You have to understand though, that manuscript images are very often biblical or allegorical (or both) in nature, so they may intentionally be showing exaggerations of reality in order to get a point across to the reader who would also recognize something as a 'superhuman feat of strength' when looking at the illustration.
Thank you!
But why did early great helms have flat top?
Perhaps ease of manufacturing, but I'm not sure the 'why' can always be answered.
Thanks again.
You're great. May your youtube channel be popular and prosperous.
@@dimitrizaitsew1988 I have studied XII century, France. Forgive my poor broken English. We see flat top appears in 1180-1190. Sometimes with just nasal. "Complete" helmet is more 1200.
But it was used with big kite shield. Steel used was low carbon (as our modern "mild steel"). I think problem was :
1) resist to a *very* strong blow made by a XI-XII type sword. A flat helmet will slightly deform on hit and will not contact to skull head
2) resist to... spear used under arm. If a spear hit on your shield, it can bounce and land on top of your helmet. From front. Flat top shape will add strength.
3) Normally, you avoid to hit a strong helmet with your sword directly. It will nick your knighty blade for no result. Helmet will be attacked with spear, arrows, crushing weapons... and strong (and cheap !) pole arms (price is same than a simple tool). These pole arms appears later... when you need your helmet more pointy to deflect it.
I wonder if a type of later greathelm(like the frog mouth) could've been used as an outer helmet that rests on shoulders attached to the breastplate and the visor would be oriented in a way to allow view angles +/-100 degrees by rotating head withing the helmet. The greater extension and greater weight(and thus rigidity via supporting ribs) would allow to take blows from maces, warhammers and polaxes which wouldn't translate directly to the head but rather your whole body.
A lot of later helms like the frog mouth (and even other types of helmet like the great bascinet) were bolted or strapped directly to the cuirass and supported by the torso to produce the effect you describe.
I am on the great bascinet atm)) Btw don't you think that Sallet was partially popular because of easier manufacturing?
btw I'd really like if you showed the insides of the helmets too. To see how the padding and straping is done.
2:47 Those horses! Where is that image from?
+ZiePe manuscriptminiatures.com/4136/8517/
+Mike Wazofski They're supposed to be fighting.
+Knyght Errant Thank you, Sir!
I saw the real helmet this was based on in person, I think the bit of trim on it was gold coloured.
Ian, I have always been a fan of Mac's work, who is the owner of that Great helm?
I know i am late to the party buut anyways: @2:21 we see four persons fighting. Three of them are obviously injured. Is this artistical freedom or did swords actually do penetrate maille and/or arming caps?
The artist never was in a battle, I assume.
I like your channel, lindybiege's channel is also good but he gets spontaneous which is not a bad thing but your seem calmer when you explain. Good job mate!
I also came here from the Scholagladiatoria channel. The the suspended fitting of one helmet on top of the other is quite interesting, but considering getting hit by a lance, is it not still very possible that the force would turn the great helm to one side and leave you blind? Considering how narrow the view-slits are, I'm also impressed that not every movement of the head would make it oscillate just far enough to block one's vision.
Looking forward to the other videos.
+Serpent@Eden It's likely that many of these helms had chinstraps to mitigate your concern. Some recent scholarship has turned up some obscure references to thongs being used to secure the helm in place (also in the case of a bascinet in one reference). There is an account of a tournament joust where one of the knights is caught cheating by using a weak thong to secure his helm so that the helm would fly off and not unhorse him. This implies that normally, a more secure method for keeping the helm on was used or it wouldn't have been worth mentioning. I hope to do a video on this sub-topic in the future.
Interesting. Thank you for your prompt answer. :)
+Serpent@Eden In the SCA where I live there was a guy who used a large enclose helmet (bascinet with bar grill I think) with a suspended fitting he had put on himself. One blow to the top of the head with a rubber poleaxe and down he went. The suspension fitting was not part of the accepted minimum requirements, so he was responsible. Makes me wonder if suspension fittings were ever that popular, since they can injure the wearer extremely easily if the blow comes down wrong.
Oisin Lee The suspension in this case is intended only to be worn over another helmet. It sounds like the mishap you're describing in the SCA was a similar suspension worn directly on the head. I think therein lies the danger.
Oh, OK
I'm wondering, how does the great helm affect your hearing?
Great stuff. Learned a lot.
Good video, could you tell me what is the picture you show at 1:38? I'd love to know where you got it from and where it originated :)
+Stephan Barbarian manuscriptminiatures.com/4087/12054/
Wonderful, thanks a lot!
Great video. Really informative. These helmets are so cool looking! :)
You should do another video about the Burgonet or the Sugarloaf helm.
Older video, but i hope someone knowledgeable sees my question and knows an answer to it.
With the great helm on the table, i'd think that because the top piece of the helmet goes inside the next piece and that piece goes inside the lowest part, those edges could offer a place for the blade to hit and transfer more energy downwards to the head.
Is there any reason for this specific construction, or would it be possible to have the helmet be done in a way where the top part is fastened to the outside of the next and so on?
This way, when the helmet is hit with a downward strike (that i imagine is more common than upward hit), there'd be only the ends of the studs to help a sword transmit energy more easily, letting the sword slide down towards the plates and mail covering the knights shoulders.
Keep in mind these are primarily cavalry helmets, although potentially useful on the ground as well, they are thought to mostly be used for the cavalry charge and then slung over the shoulder or discarded when the fighting got in close. This would make downward blows a lot less common than upward or level blows as they're more commonly going to be deflecting lance impacts and spears from the ground.
Thanks for the reply.
I failed to remember these being mostly cavalry helmets so the picture i had in my mind of two guys wearing these and hitting each other with swords while on foot was wrong.
@@markotark Yes, because they are dismounted... Men-at-arms fought sometimes on foot (escpecially in the Late Middle Ages). :)
@2:40 Those horses are just best friends hugging it out while the knights are playing stab-the-other-guy.
has anyone done any experimental archeology on slinging the great helm on a chain
Cool helmet love to try it
In as much as my Dr would like me to avoid a 10th concussion and 5th KO I'm looking very strongly at either a Helm/Greathelm combo and then tell all shots by sound, or a Klappavisor bacinet with a suspension harness backed up by anticoncussion padding & sorbothane. Thoughts?
The first type of helmet I got to wear ad use in armored sparring. One of my overall favorites. Despite it's drawbacks, it's still an awesome piece of wargear Also, it looks epic.
Other than the Henry V example shown in the video, do you know of any extant helmets which exhibit features between those of the Great and Frogmouth Helms?
Do you think you could do a video on the Barbute please?
I have yet to find an available high-quality reproduction of a barbute to demonstrate for the show-and-tell portion of my videos, but I definitely want to cover them.
Knyght Errant great! Maybe you could answer a question in the mean time? Most of the helmets I've seen in your video have a canvas padded looking helmet suspension inside. I've a reproduction barbute which has a leather liner very similar to the one for this great helm. I'd assumed it was just a different style/lower quality, but having seen the leather one here I was wondering if perhaps folk also wore additional helmets under a barbute??
As far as I know, none of the liners survive in any extant barbutes, but I would expect their liners to be very similar to a sallet. The survivals generally have holes drilled around the crown for rivets, then a leather band should be attached to the inside, and a textile quilted liner sewn to that band. I would not expect a period barbute to have leather lobes like a great helm.
I noticed in tapestries, sometimes steel is portrayed as gray or white, but other times it appears blue or brown. Is this because the steel of different armors were made or tempered differently, or was this simply a stylistic choice of color for the illustrator?
+TheSpaghettiKnight The palette available to manuscript illuminators was not precise enough for getting accurate color representation of real objects. Another interesting thing about color in manuscripts,, especially when it comes to representing metals, is that they often used real silver leaf to indicate steel. Over time the silver tarnishes and appears black or muddled brown, when in period it would have been a shiny silver color.
+Knyght Errant That actually makes a lot of sense, thanks for replying.
Unrelated comment , but around 2:50, am I seeing 2 horses wrestling together ? :D
+PIZZLEdeTWIZZLE Yes, yes you are. :) manuscriptminiatures.com/4136/8517/
Haha ! Awesome :D
+Knyght Errant Now *that* is a well trained warhorse.
PIZZLEdeTWIZZLE I thought they were doing the tango...
I have a question: where there such things as visored sugarloaf helms? I've done research and there are representations (effegiees, painteings, etc) of those but there aren't any complete finds of that kind of helm so that puts myself in doubt if they are real or just "Medieval Hollowood"
+Max The Gaming Man There are enough depictions of visors on surgarloafs (sugarloaves?? ;) ) across enough sources that I think it's ok to interpret them as something that likely existed. There are no surviving sugarloaf helms of any style at all, so there's nothing to compare it to, all we have is the artwork unfortunately.
+Knyght Errant thanks for the info.
Were there any chin straps on these helmets? They seem like there would be problems with keeping them in place when struck, especially thrusts to the face.
+Adam Whitlach Good question! Other styles of helmets, like kettle helms and sallets have dedicated rivets on the helmet itself intended specifically to secure a leather chin strap. Bascinets and Great Helms have no such dedicated structure. There are no artistic representations that definitively show a chin strap on great helms or bascinets, but like you say, there's a practical element to this. There are a couple obscure accounts from tournaments that talk about a knight cheating by using a very light thong to strap on his helmet so that the helmet will fly off when he's struck and prevent him from being unhorsed. This implies that *normally* they would wear something stronger to secure their helmets, but this is specifically in a tournament context. That being said, if there were chin straps on great helms or bascinets, they were likely integrated into the linings or suspensions, not the helmet itself.
+Knyght Errant
I imagined that bascinets made to be made with a greathelm would be fairly light and thin, in comparison to one made as standalone defense. How thick and how heavy is this particular one, and how did it compare to your own houndskull one?
How good is your vision and breathing with the greathelm on? Could you imagine fighting in a foot melee with it on? How did it compare with your houndskull bascinet?
So the Basinet i assume has a chin strap.
What secured the great helm?
Historicaly...
To me it seems they are designed for looking straight ahead, for the charge and getting through the arrow storm.
Hey I hope someone could answer my question. Was there an option that knight or any warrior used only a leather or woolen coif, a chainmail coif on it and the great helm on top of it (or some close combination, not sure of the proper names) instead of the secret helmet?
is this bascinet, worn underneath the great helmet, of the same type as worn with the pigface visor? (except for the pivot to attach the pigface ofcourse)
Ps, has the video "How a man shall be dressed for combat" (the one where you put on the armour step by step) been removed? I really used that video often to see the details of armor parts.
That particular one can't mount a visor, because as you noted, it has no pivots, but it's overall shape is not unlike a bascinet that _could_ have a visor mounted on it. If worn with a visor you couldn't wear the great helm anymore though. Even if the visor fit inside of the great helm, getting the two pairs of eye slits to line up would be a nightmare. I did remove the 'How a Man Shall Be Armed' video (well, I set it to private, I didn't delete it) because I no longer stand by some of the interpretations in that video. The arming clothes have some serious issues, and despite my best efforts to put annotations all over the video I think it was still giving people the wrong impression. I will be re-making the video with my current kit and hopefully higher production value when able.
I love the dedication you put into this! Thank you thank you so much. I have so much fun learning from your videos!
What you did not touch upon however are the depictions of what seems to be visored great helms in a lot of early-mid 14th century artwork.
Let me ask you something, I'm reading Niketas Choniates and according to his words the knights of the 4th Crusade were "clad in armour", at that time - the very beginning of 13th century - plate armor wasn't available as far as I know, so they must have been dressed in mail, except for their helmet. Am I correct?
+Borislav Mitev Yes, that would be correct.
Henry the V'a helmet had no breaths, that would imply the helmet was not intended for long-term use would it not? Perhaps great helms would only be worn during intense moments such as cavalry charges or arrow fire and would be slung back at all other times?
They were designed for a specific purpose, the charge. Hence limited visibility was ok, it was hi diddle, straight up the middle.
Could it be that the Great Helm was used for advancing against arrows and then taken off when in close combat? Seems the most logical to me, but I would like to know if there is any record of how this combination was used.
+Thiago Monteiro That is what a lot of people think, that the great helm was used for the initial cavalry charge to defend against projectiles, lances etc... and then it may have been discarded in the melee.
Were all helmets of this style used as large great helms over bascients or were there also smaller variations worn on their own?
I'm quite new to armour, but don't you need an arming cap under a helmet? Does the bascinet already have padding inside?
Who used the Sugarloaf helmets? Is it just another universal helmet anyone can use like the great helm?
how robust are the suspensions on these?
it seems like the great helm would be able to slide across into your vision if it somehow broke
or were they meant to be used more like a visor that you would remove if you were on foot and in melee?
I can't say I've ever heard of the suspension failing before (in modern use or historical accounts). They will wear out over time and need to be replaced, but that would be part of the normal maintenance of the helm. A lot of the evidence does suggest that the helm would be removed after the initial charge and the close-in fighting would just utilize the underlying bascinet. Just keep in mind that bascinets (and most other medieval helmet types) also have their _own_ suspension liners within (ua-cam.com/video/itO64ZBX1jU/v-deo.html)
thanks
Hey Ian, so were earlier great helms like ones used in the crusades smaller than this?
They weren’t great helms they were just flat top helmets
If you can get a hold of one i'd love to see a video about Frog-mouth Great Helmets.
Definitely do a video on the Frogmouth!
It seems to me that while people complain about limited vision, this may mean that it's designed for a direct charge then may be thrown over the shoulder then relying on the other for protection in the Mele
Ian, did medival helmets have chin straps? Or what was holding them in place? I imagine that a very well fitted helmet + suspension usually works great without. But what prevents the helmet from simply falling off when, let's say you trip or even fall off a horse, or any other violent mishap.
+lalucre1803 Certain helmets, like kettle hats and sallets have dedicated rivets designed to hold chin-straps in place. Helmets like the bascinet have no such structure, and in artwork a chinstrap on a bascinet or great helm wouldn't really be visible, so it's hard to say. If a chin-strap was incorporated into these types of helmets it would likely be attached directly to the liner, but no chin-straps on bascinets survive. There is an obscure account of a tournament where a knight 'cheated' by securing his bascinet with a weak thong that broke on impact so his helmet would fly off rather than unhorsing him. If that was worth mentioning, it's likely that they *normally* used something more secure to hold the helmet on, but this is specific to a tournament setting and we know that sometimes things were configured specifically to the tournament that you would not use in warfare. So long story short, we don't know for sure. In the case of the great helm, later great helms would be bolted directly to the breastplate for tournaments, but if you think about, some might say you have an advantage in warfare to get your great helm knocked off rather than being unhorsed or killed outright. You'd still be left with a bascinet :)
Knyght Errant thx for your answer. I've just watched your Bascinet video. Would you say, that from you personal experience, your bascinet sits well enough without a strap?
lalucre1803 It stays on pretty well without a strap. If a lance caught it under the snout it could definitely be knocked off though, but it would be pretty tricky for it to 'fall off' from any kind of normal moving around.
Another great video, do you think that something like a great helm would only be carried around if the person knew they were going into battle, or did they roam the country side with it hanging off their shoulder (or on top of their head/in their saddlebags)?
+zarbran While I don't know for sure, I would guess that people wouldn't keep their great helm slung over their shoulder unless they expected to need it on short notice.
before the bascinet you need padded coif, it add +5 Bonus Blunt Defend.