I disagree about Palpatine speaking through Snoke. Snoke often displayed childish frustration and impotent rage that would have been completely out of character for smug chad Palpatine.
Yeah i feel like they just made that up after the fact... They had to make an explanation to snoke and couldnt come up with anything better... I feel like the original idea was that Snoke was his own charachter and had nothing to do with palpatine. He was either darth plagueis or an alien from beyond the outer rim... But then rian asshat destroyed everything and they couldnt do that story anymore because of him. And JJ couldnt make a good story with pile of horseshit Rian left for him and he panicked and made horseshit the sequel... 🤦♂️🤷♂️😔
@@NinjaDude85 Agreed. Actually for a long time I was convinced he was that little kid from Episode 3. Initially he was only shown through holograms so it was entirely possible he was a heavily deformed human, and his motivations matched up perfectly. It wasn't until TLJ that he was confirmed to be a 7+ foot tall alien and all the theories about him being that kid or Tarkin or Lord Cronal went out the window. He still could have been Plagueis, but Rian just had him be nobody and JJ basically had to run with it. Ironically, they've now retconned him to the point where he could theoretically be human again. I don't think I've ever seen a more mismanaged character in the entirety of fiction, other than maybe Luke Skywalker himself.
@@NinjaDude85 My theory was that Snoke was meant to be a warlord from the Unknown Regions. He discovered the Empire and when Palpatine died he decided to take advantage of the chaos by convincing the proto-First Order he can restore them one day. His scars are because he fought Palpatine for the throne and lost but like Yoda was powerful enough to escape, so like an evil Yoda he waited until the time was right (which'd also still keep the Emperor as the bigger evil despite being dead) The reason this was my theory is because it would add a new part of the galaxy for future writers to explore in a post-Sequel trilogy era
Well in Force Awakens Snoke displayed himself as an eerily calm, cold, methodical, detached dark side user unlike most Sith. While in the Last Jedi he was a melodramatic, intense, man with delusions of grandeur and full of unfocused rage directed at Kylo Ren.
And the best line he comes up with for when encountering his opposition is that of a child on the playground "i am all the sith. my bazillion strong army will beat your bazillion strong army! then my dad will beat up your dad!"
I was under the impression that Snoke had his own mind and personality. Especially since he created the connection between Rey and Kylo, and later Palpatine is all surprised by it
They have a force dyad connection, which was prophesied and had nothing to do with Snoke, which is canon at the same time as Snoke creating their connection. This lore makes no sense
Something else I want to add to why palpatine and snoke had his own mind and personality is that snoke brought rey to his ship to kill her. Palpatine said I never wanted you dead I wanted you here
Remember they were planning to have Snoke be a femme fatal Jedi killer? I wish Snoke was that with the old aging senile look was just a disguise to appear weak and fragile.
I mean, that’s basically what Darth Vader was. Had they stuck with treveros script, he should have been Tor Valums apprentice, not related to the Sith order at all.
I remember how they were building up Snoke as this ancient being who had seen the rise and fall of the Republic and the events of the original trilogy and that Luke had even met with Snoke during his journey to find ancient Jedi artifacts and would be the reason Snoke wanted Luke dead. Point is, they WERE building to something only to then scrap it with TLJ happened and retconed it to be even lamer that he was just a meat puppet for Palpatine.
A femme fatale? Do you mean a life force stealing vampire, like the Wraith of Stargate? Because femme fatales are mysterious, seductive women that lure men into danger, either by direct intention or because danger follows her. Bond women or La femme Nikita fit this character type.
Andy Serkis did a good job playing Snoke, and the character at first seemed really interesting. But then Disney crapped all over Snoke, now he feels kind've pointless. I feel bad for Andy Serkis being played dirty like that. I do love Ian McDiarmid as Palpatine tho, he's prob the only thing I liked about Episode 9. Even tho his return did come out of left field.
Plus the more makeup they put on ian the worse palps looks. He/I looked the best in the original trilogy, still good in the prequels, and even less better in the sequel trilogy
Rian Johnson crapped all over Snoke because he just wanted Kylo and Rey. They should just have had JJ make all three films, then they could actually have made a plan.
They still could have saved Snoke's back story. Imagine if Palpatine had been keeping Plagueis alive and torturing him, and twisting his DNA and mixing it with his own. Snoke could have been what was left of a tortured and spliced Plagueis! No longer looking like a Muun not a human. It would show Palpatine's twisted side and explain Snoke's appearance
The whole "if you strike me down my spirit will go into you" reminds me a lot of the Darth Bane books, where Bane wanted the same thing and when his apprentice Zannah killed him it was left open with her left hand shaking like Banes did before. Maybe they can do the same with Rey
My head canon is that Rey didn’t kill palpatine, his own lightning did, plus his ritual wasn’t performed so for those two reasons he didn’t pass into her
😂 every sequel thing is always “let’s take this awesome story cut out all the cool characters and then make the Mary Sue the main character who gets all the powers and wins again.” It’s impossible to fix what has no foundation and shitcanned everything it had to build with.
@@lrioje1 a better explanation would be for the possession to occur, the murder must be with intense hatred. But since when Rey did it with all the jedi backing her, she was at peace with herself, knowing she's a true jedi, and therefore protected. And Palps knew this, hence why he was attacking her at that point and not just letting her kill him.
What could have been waay cooler, that is if it was the clone of Darth Plagueis behind the scenes, while Plagueis merely lived or was dead but they had his soul/dna in Snoke.
Yep, they already fucked yo the trilogy’s cohesion when Ryan decided to do what ever he wanted for TLJ. Sure it might of been bad, but I would have preferred if JJ was just put in charge of the whole trilogy, at least then if it was bad it would have had an overall plan. JJ in TFA actually laid a decent set up, I was excited for Ep 8. I think he at least would have made Luke closer to what we expected. I still kind enjoy rewatching TFA, I think it was the high point of the Sequels. Too bad my rewatches are tainted with the knowledge that it leads right into TLJ
@@TheZamaron I was saying this same thing just a few hours ago...TFA was a high and it all went downhill from there😢 I WISH they had left the genious, Abrams, in charge. 😋
@@alli_went_bonkers I don’t think I’d call JJ a “genius” but if he helmed the entire trilogy, at least it would have been narratively consistent. Instead of just being 3 inconsistant films patchworked together by different.
@@TheZamaronTo be clear, I'm not calling him a genius for TFA, although BB-8 was a work of genious(!) and the first scene on the millennium falcon between him, Rey and Finn was PRICELESS, but for much of his other work such as "Regarding Henry" and a couple of re-invented Star Trek movies.
Exactly. Those films were done from the seat of their pants. You can’t tell me they planned Snoke’s character to be some kind of Palpatine clone. Gimme a break. Poor writing, poor execution.
George Lucas originally at 12 Movies put it back down to 9, Mark Hamill even says in an interview in 1980 George Lucas Lucas asked him if you wanted to play like Obi-Wan role in 2011 Disney trashed Star Wars and all his stories
@@3313-c2j it wasn’t 12 “episodes” though. George’s plan that he mentioned was up to episode 9, then three spin-offs. It would have been cool to see Maul as the big bad of the sequels.
I feel like the best way they could explain palpatine's conscience transferring, would be every clone has a sort of uplink and transmitter, so basically whenever the body he's using dyes, it transmits the last moments before the brain being destroyed to the new clone. And with as many wacky things as we seen the force, he probably had some way to send it to the clone
@Cactus Juice Totally agree! The sequels made Anakin’s redemption pointless. It would have been better if Rey was Obi-Wan Kenobi’s granddaughter. Rey Kenobi sounds better than Rey Palpatine. And Snoke ended up being Darth Plagueis
Uuuuuuh no, it isn't on a dry period but SWT ain't carrying s#!t, he has made mistakes like everybody else, he just another fan making content keeping the franchise thriving
I've been a Star Wars fan right from the first movie, but if they bring Palpatine back again, that will be it for me. They really need to move on from him.
The old films had ample bad guys, each worse than the one before. The last trilogy had Snoke.... and some sniveling snot nosed whiney kids. Once Snoke was dead, they HAD to bring the Emperor back or there was no antagonist who could hold our attention. Just absolutely horrible writing and Disney should be utterly ashamed of themselves.
It is hard to care for a character when they try and piece together the shambles of three separate movies and a director who obviously did not care about continuity. At this point it's all made up stuff to try and string together three badly done movies with no cohesive script.
Very insightful. As for your comment about Rey killing Palpatine, it was not her force lightning that killed him, rather it was his own force lightning which was reflected by back onto him that really killed him. And it wasn't her own strength and volition, per se, that accomplished that, rather it was the force of "all the Jedi" with the aid of the two Skywalker sabers. So even though the result was the same, it was not the result of Rey seccumbing to the dark side.
Remember when Snoke said: and kills his true enemy, it could have been a foreshadow for Episode 9 where Rey killed Palpatine knowing he was in a clone body, Palpatine still could have gotten his wish but only this time apart of Palpatine's spirit is inside Rey right now
Grogu was most likely one of the beings used to create Snoke. That's why the remnants of the empire had those scientists that needed his blood to "bring order back to the Galaxy". There were scenes of Snoke's body in that huge tank in one of the episodes of the Mandalorian. I hope they can explain that further but I believe that his genes were used spliced with others. Somehow Palpatine knew about Grogu. I hope more of his backstory gets explained in season 3.
Snoke had great potential, I would have loved to have seen him as an admirer of Palpatine and could have been Darth Plagueis first apprentice or attempt at cloning. He was wasted, he was super interesting, I would have had him be the main villain, and at the end of the sequel trilogy they could reveal that Palpatine is His advisor from beyond the grave-could be like a horcrux in Harry Potter, in this case, Snokes ring. I was annoyed that he was cast off. We should have seen it if I’m being honest, Disney with no plan and Snoke sounding like Smoke, which could be foreshadowing that he’s hiding the true villain. Very good video
I like to think they used at least parts of Plaguis’s dna(I know I probably misspelled that) but it would bring things full circle, palpatine making his former master into his puppet. It just seems like something he would love to do and would be a great source for a force sensitive “clone being”
Snoke : Hmm. The mighty Kylo Ren. When I found you, I saw what all masters live to see: Raw, untamed power... and beyond that, something truly special. The potential of your bloodline. A new Vader..... Now, I fear I was mistaken. I like the character Snoke though he had a wasted potential of becoming the sequels antagonist along side with Kylo Ren but I like his force abilities. Being able to shot force lightning on the floor then bounces back at Kylo Ren and his telekinesis power was very impressive being able to ragdoll General Hux through a hologram from far away and according to Luke Skywalker himself that Snoke's power is in the same level as Palpatine but of course Palpatine is more powerful than Snoke. Andy Serkis did a wonderful voice acting as Snoke and can't wait for him to play again as Snoke in any future star wars movies or series. Very good video as always Theory hope you are having a good day and as always May The Force be with you always.
In Episode IX Palpatine still has what seems to be the lightning burns on his fingers from Episode VI. I wouldn't be surprised the whole essence transfer story was retroactively written after filming.
He didn't have the "lightning burns" at first. He only got those after absorbing the dyad. If anything this just indicates that was his true face the whole time and his lightning just revealed his true face. Hence why nobody else ever looked like that after being hit by force lightning.
Apparently just the planet of Exegol it self. I'm not sure how they are going to shoehorn in a backstory for Exegol that does not completely contradict legends history. When the Sith became the Sith they were Dark Jedi that were exiled and ended up on Koriband where the Sith species lived. The dark Jedi became their overlords and interbred with them becoming the Sith as an order of the dark side. Disney changed Koriband to Moriband to distinguish between the legends version and new canon version. Back in legends the Sith were defeated on Koriband after a war with the jedi and went into hiding on Dromund Kaas before reconquering Koriband and attacking the Jedi again, before becoming defeated yet again. Then there was some brotherhood of darkness that tried doing things in a new way but not really, from that Darth Bane arose and destroyed the brotherhood with a "thought bomb" which to me sounds kinda lame. Then he started his rule of 2 (which Yoda referenced in the phantom menace) and somehow along the way they managed to convince the jedi the sith had died off. However in Clone wars Yoda knew who bane was when he went to Moriband coming across Banes force ghost. So in my opinion new canon needs to clarify how the jedi came to believe the sith were dead but still knew about the rule of two and Bane as the founder of it. Now back to Exegol which is supposed to be an ancient dark side/sith planet. I can only immagine but the best way to make it work is that when the first dark jedi were exiled they first eneded up on Exegol somehow. The name is kinda similar to exile after all. However now we need an explanation why the dark jedi left Exegol and ended up on Moriband to become the Sith. And why is there a Sith throne on Exegol? And why didn't Bane and the rule of two era sith ending with Palpatine know about Exegol until it called out to him and he apparently went out there and found it? I can only guess the Sith throne and everything is more of a religious temple place and not a permanent residence. Perhaps the original dark jedi couldn't stay on Exegol for some reason, maybe it wasn't habitable or maybe it was just nothing to do there, maybe it was kind of like the Jedi's version of Illum, a place they go to as a rite of passage, but not somewhere they stay permanently. Perhaps that's where the Sith emperors are crowned or something. A place to show your worth and might, a place to test your connection to the dark side etc... Maybe the knowledge of Exegol was lost after Moriband, but then I would assume if the Sith lost Moriband they would go back to Exegol for refuge instead of setting up a new place on Dromund Kaas. What I fear is that Exegol is the new canon Dromund Kaas, effectively replacing it. It is indeed a lot cooler than Dromund Kaas, but then nearly everything legends about Dromund Kaas could be thrown out the window, like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. How can the Jedi not know about Exegol, and how can Palpatine not know about it from before if it is the replacement of Dromund Kaas? This revamp of the canon really has to be done carefully if they don't want to throw a wrench into the whole thing and change everything.
@@jlt-kjv2840 indeed, hence is why I’m making a better Headcanon for Snoke. My Headcanon: Snoke was a very powerful dark side entity akin to a demon, in the days of the Old Republic; it would be said that both the Ancient Jedi and the Ancient Sith feared him due to unspecified unique powers he possessed. Snoke’s species are also said in legends that they can extend their lifespan over endless millennia through various means that many dark side orders such as the Sith sought to take advantage of.. Sometime during the wars between the Jedi and Sith; Snoke and his kind were in the midst of a gathering to combine their dark powers to bring about and summon a powerful being they worshipped in the Dark Side. However the combination of their dark energies resulted in countless of them either dying or being ‘inactivated’ due to using so much power to bring about this deity. Snoke was one of those who ‘inactivated’ and overtime to preserve his powers he had cultists who belonged to his species religious dark order to construct numerous temples in his name and one temple specifically designed for himself to rejuvenate. Over these next millennia, Snoke continued to feel and acknowledge every event the galaxy went through from the End of the Old Republic to the Great Peace then the High Republic and eventually the Clone Wars followed by the rise of the Galactic Empire along with the civil war that coincided with it’s rule.. When the empire’s two ruling Sith Lords were destroyed, Snoke and his fellow members of his species would realize it would be time for them to rise as they saw the Jedi and Sith as ‘petty force ideologists’. And the rest goes on from here when Imperial scouts were met by the cultists of Snoke’s Dark Order.. And when Kylo Ren killed Snoke, the assassination was immediately felt in the force by the other members of Snoke’s species who then began a campaign to seek the First Order and kill Ren for the murder of their leading official of their Dark Order. Snoke’s Ancient dark side order was known as the Shadow Order and he was the leader of his Shadow Council (similar to the Ancient Sith’s Dark Council)!
I've been saying it since the beginning of the Mandalorian, I am expecting the experiences on baby yoda to eventually connect with Snoke and Palpatine....I'm not saying that I'm impressive for thinking of this theory. As far as I know, most fans thought the exact same thing.
I wish Snoke had either been Plagueis or at least a new powerful force character rather than Palpatine's clone that he was controlling. I kind of doubt that was the original plan, but I suppose we'll never know who Snoke was originally supposed to be.
Looking at Snoke’s height, what if he was created by gene splicing cells from both Palpatine and the remains of Darth Plagueis? Replicating a Dyad in the Force by creating a physical Dyad of two powerful Sith Lords into one being? In the reference book “Star Wars: Complete Locations” it says that Palpatine kept Plagueis’s ashes in an urn inside his office. What if he had taken blood or tissue samples from Plagueis before doing so? Therefore Snoke being Darth Plagueis would still be true, from a certain point of view.
Palpatine possessing Rey would be awesome. I know not many people would wanna see that(I myself would rather them focus on the past or very distant future) but if they did continue with these characters, that would be pretty cool.
I kind of liked that Palpatine was pulling the strings of the First Oder the whole time. Its basically what he did in the Clone Wars just even more sneaky. Although I do with the movies had made it clearer that Snoke was just a puppet Dictator, and that Palpatine himself was trying to create his own Dyad to increase his own power and life.
Bringing him back again would strain credulity. On the other hand I would not mind for two reasons. Number one. I like the character. Number two. He should have had an amazing drawn out battle before he died. Instead of the pitiful little fight we got. You can't have a guy who plasma balled the sky go out in such a fashion.
Insight like this helps me find some appreciation for the newer trilogy. Of course a lot of the disparities between the directors is disappointing, but hearing these things fills in some of the needed gaps within the three trilogy. I am wondering you feel the same way.
Another disappointment. A letdown. First, he was just a Palpatine rip off now he literally is Palpatine. Must be am mental exercise to try to make sense out of the sequels
ngl the sequels keep getting better as they fill out the story. It’s a shame they had to do it like this but I’m glad they are filling in the gaps rather than ignoring them to have them make more sense.
@@andyb6400 That's a terrible strawman argument and you know it. Absolutely no backstory was given for Snoke. We have Palpatine's backstory with the prequels. Snoke had no stated motivations. We know Palpatine's motivations was to destroy the Jedi and to rule the universe. The sequels were so bad that the best they can do is come up with Snoke being Palpatine's puppet. Trying to compare Snoke to Palpatine is such a stupid argument.
@@nedgitoblue Oh so all they have to do is release 3 movies that take place before the sequels to actually give Snoke a character, like they did with Palpatine, and all problems are solved. Got it. Emailing Disney now
The Sequel Tragedy is nothing but a sad flustercluck that needs to be tossed aside as an alternate reality and allow the Filoniverse to give Star Wars it’s true sequel.
The way they have this set up is that Palpatine is like Sepheroth or Voldemort or Orochimaru. He's not ever really gone for good as long as a piece of him remains somewhere.
Also, it sort of had to have been Palpatine using the force through Snoke the entire time because if Snoke wasn’t naturally powerful enough to contain Palpatine’s spirit, then Snoke wouldn’t have been remotely powerful enough to take an apprentice like Ben Solo…Kylo would’ve overpowered and killed him within the first year of his turn…Snoke would’ve definitely needed Palpatine’s help to control a dark side apprentice from the Skywalker bloodline.
It just makes me happy knowing that old palpatine was always capable of rag dolling Kylo and Rey with no effort. And people say Kylo could take vader what a joke.
@@Crackmiser Yeah, but if we’re being fair Palpatine is also seen in comics literally holding Vader suspended in the air while his hand is down by his side…Palpatine can rag doll Vader just about as easily as he can Kylo in canon…it’s been shown multiple times consistently…even in a comic set between ESB and ROTJ Palpatine is shown just choking Vader in the air without any effort, his hand is literally by his side he doesn’t even raise it to do this…Vader is powerful but Palpatine makes both Vader and Kylo look equally weak in comparison. Personally I think Vader would beat Kylo, but I’m not going to pretend like so many others do that a fight between them wouldn’t be incredible because it would be or that it’s impossible for Kylo to win because it isn’t…people like to downplay Kylo a lot but all the canon points to him being not far off Vader’s level in power, they’re close…one canon comic even compared them shot for shot fighting in the middle of the same battlefield in different time periods, making a direct comparison between what they’re both capable of and in that same comic it shows Kylo taking a Zillo Beast down single handedly, where Vader retreated…they’re very similar, and both have advantages and disadvantages. Realistically it would be a good fight, wether people want to admit it or not.
@@Ivbo im aware. ive read the comic and that comics only purpose for existence was to try to make kylo look better then vader. kylo as a character infuriates me and jason solo was the person we needed. legends forever new canon dog doodoo
Since killing Palps the first time didn’t take, there’s no reason to assume that it did the second either. So it’s very possible Palp’s spirit is still out there. I think it would be cool if Luke and Palpatine had one last battle in the netherworld of the force to finally put Palp’s spirit back in his bottle for good. Imo, it would have been a more satisfying conclusion to the Skywalker saga.
In my own headcanon, Rey didn't even really kill Palpatine -- Palpatine's own lightning took care of that, Rey just acted as a mirror. Whatever crazy-ass "strike me down and I'll just hop on into ya" essence transfer ritual Palpatine was originally planning to do (if the whole thing wasn't some reverse psychology to get his enemies to not kill him) was nullified due to that circumstance; he can't transfer into his own obliterated self.
Yeah. Snoke was supposed to be the true villain of the sequels but once rian fucked that up they ran out of ideas. Knowing Ben would be redeemed from the start of the sequels they brand palp back cuz they had no other ideas
I think Palpitatine lives on, like Voldemort using the Horcrux in Harry Potter, waiting for a good vessel to consume. He probably has many cloning facilities where he's desperately trying to create such a vessel, such as Project Phoenix from Rick and Morty. This confirms why Palpitatine wanted Grogu so bad, as his species are known to have a considerable midichlorian count.
Snoke is emblematic of the entire Sequel Trilogy. Audiences were captivated by his mystery in Episode VII and excited to see where it all went next. Then Rian Johnson came along and said he didn't care, the audience was dumb, and screw the audience I'm killing him off without any explanation of who he was. Then Abrams was left with a mess and no time to resolve all of the numerous loose threads, so we got a quick one-line explanation and that was that. In the end Snoke was, "A good question, for another time..." like so many other things that had great potential but were ultimately handled poorly in the sequels.
Rey didn't kill him. He "killed" himself, all she did was defend herself. I think he intended for her to kill him with intent and anger (like he wanted Luke to do and he refused) rather than just surviving his attack by reflecting it back at him. It's like in old shows when a villain dies because he tried to attack the hero while they're both in a precarious position and falls to their doom. The hero wasn't responsible, it was the villain getting karma'd. I'd assume some of Snoke might be from Grogu's blood, possibly any force sensitive sith followers as well.
Oof the fact you guys feel the need to explain the scene is so sad. You don’t see the problem with the climactic choice coming down to semantics? She clearly kills him, and how she did it was insanely stupid because jj stopped giving a shit and wanted to wrap that shit up. She killed him with Mary Sue plot armor because it’s literally all her character is
@@randalthekidd7006 In fairness I didn't say I liked it, it _was_ stupid and robbed the scene of dramatic tension compared to what could have been done if they'd worked though the plan for this whole thing better, but it's a simple narrative loop hole they used here. She _didn't_ kill him, she literally did nothing which is actually kinda worse.
I know this is a Disney plot hole - why did Snoke say to Kylo and Rey that he bridged their minds in Last Jedi. Then they are a dyad in Rise of Skywalker and the Emperor just discovered this.
They were a Dyad always but it took snoke/Palpatine to bridge their minds to truly make them powerful as a dyad so in the end he can take said force power
Palpatine possibly is Plagieus. Just like Palps wants Rey to strike him down in anger so his spirit may pass into her, the same may have happened with Plagieus, and his master before him, etc etc, thus “I am all the Sith”.
Andy Serkis is a fantastic actor, his character Snoke was unfortunately tossed away like an old shoe. He could've been a really cool villain, such a waste.
And this is the essential problem with resurrecting a character, it leaves the door open for them to always come back and you never know if the battle is truly over. It would have been better if Palpatine had only been used in flashbacks setting up the conflict in Ep. 9 instead of actually appearing in the present.
This book is literally papering over the cracks of massive plot holes in the illusion they had this all planned out in order to save face. It's like watching a child cheat on their homework and then pretend they didn't.
@@Chrondon the differences is those generally fit and the growing pains come from production changes not really like big story ones. Where as the sequels completely fail to connect to any piece of Star Wars. It’s like a fan film trilogy
@@randalthekidd7006 except they only just came out. Give the time to fill in the gaps. As if there weren't plot holes or inconsistencies in the prequel and original series. Took time and effort to make fill in new lot to better connect the prequels. There is a lot they can do to redeem certain decision that's fans don't like.
Snoke should have been Darth Plagueis period. They even teased it with the music similarly from The opera scene in ROTS and during The Force Awakens. Would have tied all trilogies together but that made too much sense for Woke Disney.
Palpatine was 100% everything snoke heard in his head every decision snoke ever made was palpatine shifting him he even got through to Ben it was that poweerful thats how he gathered so many resources for the first and final order
So they stole part of LoTR's story line for Sauron? Ugh eff Disney Star wars. Imo you got to start taking a stronger stance against this tripe one day my man.
I would like to have some call back to some of the earlier Sith being in the force and being absorped by Palpatine, as he did say that the dark side gave powers beyond death, and the ancient sith that used to eat entire worlds must have been in the force with Palpatine winning out as the dominant dark side influence to dominate all the other wills that may have been in there. There are dark side echos in Degobah where mirror images of the light side of the force appear and strike at the Jedi in training, and the good ones learn to avoid killing it again, and revealing the heritage of their own link to the force, dark side included, with Anakin being Vader. Vader having gone over to the light side was able to cow the emperor who left him in a very painfully vulnerable state in his heavy suit and almost insanity breaking skin grafts that had to be scrubbed off. I imagine Vader would have been a testbed for skin grafts of cloning material to withstand megapowerful force users. The skin obviously decayed like Palpatine says his body did, so there's a VERY strong similarity there. Had Vader been more powerful than the emperor, then Vader's essence going to the light side of the force would have left a huge power vacuum. I think that's why Palpatine is the only recent dark force weilder to show up as the villian.
I hope grogu was having a vision on Tython of the sequels and told Luke about it, luke makes sure it never happens but then boom Admiral Thrawn comes in and is the real sequel trilogy
I do want to know if Snoke had a mind of his own, or he was just controlled by Palpatine the whole time. Palpatine says, “I have been every voice you have ever heard inside your head” to Kylo Ren while using Snoke and Vader’s voices in addition to his own.
In my head canon, I figured the reason Snoke didn't look like other muuns was that he had transformed/enhanced his own biology over the years via his unrivaled mastery of Sith sciences and midichlorian manipulation.
I like to think Palpatine did transfer in to Rey. And at the end of the film she's just pretending and tricking everyone that she's still Rey. Biding 'her' time, just like the old Palpatine as a Senator.
Anything that involves the Disney trilogy is irrelevant. Terrible writing and storyline in Episodes 7-9. The Disney trilogy is terrible and nearly ruined the Star Wars franchise.
@@davidordaz5251 You don't purchase a major franchise without researching what makes it successful. If Disney did their research, they would of known to respect iconic characters and see the jedi Return. Its not like they didnt have enough source material to go on. But their arrogance and complacency was evident. They decided to practically reboot Episodes 4-6 and go from there. Without seeing how fans would react. And as everyone can see, a lot of fans have no faith in Disney after the trilogy. That's because they didnt do their target market research.
@@HellfireClub242 yeah true this is why I wished that Jon faverou and dave filoni made the sequel trilogy instead would have been a lot better then the other directors and people like KK since they actually care and respect the characters and universe
Honestly I was so hyped about Snoke after Ep VII, from What he said I assumed he must be old and has been watching the events of Ep I - Ep VI in shadows. In Ep VIII they showed him not as a hologram and OMG I loved his design so much (Idk why but his design and him being in that golden robe was just awesome), Yes I was shocked when he died but to me it was actually really good idea (better than kill him in the last movie like every main villain), also there were theories about him doing the same force projection as Luke or that he created the First order and Kylo Ren just to balance the force after the last two sith being killed and when Rey showed up he knew his purpouse was done and let Kylo Ren kill him. But then they fucked up in Ep IX. They brought back Sidious for no reason and made Snoke his “Clone”. I personaly enjoyed sequels (unlike some others) but Ep IX had so stupid things in my opinion and they destroyed it with Snoke in that movie (I wasn’t so disappointed from a movie plot in ages). But it is what it is and I respect that even tho I disagree.
Bringing him back is honestly the only way to save the story moving forward. The sequel trilogy works well if it's the beginning of something new rather than the end of the story. Dark side Rey can become a thing, they could bring Ben Solo and Luke back from the dead, along with Anakin. This could be a legit way to refocus the story and return it to being about the Skywalkers, specifically, Anakin. They could train Finn to be a Jedi and maybe find Grogu, Ahsoka (if still alive at this point), and Broom Kid too. The trilogy could be about reestablishing the Jedi while also combating Palpatine/Rey's forces who are basically back at the drawing board when it comes to reestablishing the Sith empire (they would still have some hidden bases/cloning labs/ships/forces scattered in the unknown regions, but nothing effective for anything but small skirmishes here and there, so basically this trilogy would be setting up many trilogies worth of Sith/Jedi wars. It could basically end up being the Old Republic, but post sequel trilogy.
😂 no this shit is dead. They need to just never mention it and never mention rey. Rey makes any project flop it’s just what will happen. They really should just cut their losses and retcon. There is no way forward the characters are all shit and the lore has been shat on.
@@randalthekidd7006 That isn't going to work. It was Carrie Fisher's last time playing Leia. Retconning would be disrespectful to her. I am not a Disney fan, I haven't spent a dime on Star Wars stuff since Gina Carano was fired (and I used to spend a couple hundred dollars a month) , but it is irrational to think it can't be salvaged when it clearly can be. People hated the prequels as well, but then as Clone Wars progressed, people started liking the prequels. With enough work, the sequels can be retroactively made good just like the prequels. They just need to drop the woke bullshit and fucking put Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau in charge of all creative decisions.
I think the reason palpetine couldn't put his essence into reys is cause, rather than rey attacking him with her own saber, she used his own power against him. So it was his own power that got "absorbed".
Abrams absolutely threw away what could have been an amazing character and made him a clone controlled by Palpatine (who survived somehow). just takes me out of the story. it's so ridiculous and lazy. I loved Andy Serkis' performance of him and even didn't mind his death. But his power was incredible. it was him that connected Kylo and Rey. If Kylo tried he said it would kill him. there's no way Palpatine could be that powerful. Episode 9 completely destroyed everything that was interesting within 5 minutes of the movie. to me episode 9 isn't canon. it's a joke.
I mean realistically none of the sequels are really canon. It’s like trying to write a LOTR sequel through corporate style writing it just isn’t actually a sequel.
But also, you have to consider how apparently Snoke already knew that there was some kind of link between Kylo and Rey, when Palpatine seemingly did not know. Snoke says himself that he bridged their minds. So either this was a misdirect, a bluff, or an oversight/retcon on the writers/directors part when making the movie (most likely option in my personal opinion, no hate, but I digress), it is clear to me that Snoke was at the very least aware of this bond between Ben and Rey. Now, if we assume that Palpatine really was seeing through Snoke, maybe Palpatine really did know about this link, but just didn't know that it was a Dyad like he was looking for, as that concept wasn't even established until episode 9 anyway. That's my reasoning at least, but there may be information out there confirming whether or not Snoke really did know the true origin of this link or not and I just don't know about it. The theory, or confirmation depending on one's point of view on the matter, of Palpatine controlling Snoke directly depends on which case we are seeing here in episode 8, whether that be Snoke knowing the the truth about the link or not.
You know what Snoke reminds me of? Vitiate - the voice of the emperor from SWTOR, the difference is that Vitiate is a normal body which was possessed, Snoke is a genetic experiment..
I'd like to think Palpatine is still alive it's just that his life essence/spirit is wandering around in weak vessels or hibernating in some type of force coma/stasis until he finds a powerful vessel to hold his essence. Pretty much following in the footsteps of what Tenebrae achieved, the only difference is that Tenebrae absorbed billions of life essences so he was much more capable of performing these feats where as Palpatine was struggling.
I disagree about Palpatine speaking through Snoke. Snoke often displayed childish frustration and impotent rage that would have been completely out of character for smug chad Palpatine.
Yeah i feel like they just made that up after the fact... They had to make an explanation to snoke and couldnt come up with anything better...
I feel like the original idea was that Snoke was his own charachter and had nothing to do with palpatine. He was either darth plagueis or an alien from beyond the outer rim... But then rian asshat destroyed everything and they couldnt do that story anymore because of him. And JJ couldnt make a good story with pile of horseshit Rian left for him and he panicked and made horseshit the sequel... 🤦♂️🤷♂️😔
@@NinjaDude85 Agreed. Actually for a long time I was convinced he was that little kid from Episode 3. Initially he was only shown through holograms so it was entirely possible he was a heavily deformed human, and his motivations matched up perfectly. It wasn't until TLJ that he was confirmed to be a 7+ foot tall alien and all the theories about him being that kid or Tarkin or Lord Cronal went out the window. He still could have been Plagueis, but Rian just had him be nobody and JJ basically had to run with it. Ironically, they've now retconned him to the point where he could theoretically be human again. I don't think I've ever seen a more mismanaged character in the entirety of fiction, other than maybe Luke Skywalker himself.
@@NinjaDude85 My theory was that Snoke was meant to be a warlord from the Unknown Regions. He discovered the Empire and when Palpatine died he decided to take advantage of the chaos by convincing the proto-First Order he can restore them one day. His scars are because he fought Palpatine for the throne and lost but like Yoda was powerful enough to escape, so like an evil Yoda he waited until the time was right (which'd also still keep the Emperor as the bigger evil despite being dead) The reason this was my theory is because it would add a new part of the galaxy for future writers to explore in a post-Sequel trilogy era
@@redjirachi1 would have been way better than what we got for sure! 👍 I had similar thoughts about it. Would have made so much more sense.
Well in Force Awakens Snoke displayed himself as an eerily calm, cold, methodical, detached dark side user unlike most Sith. While in the Last Jedi he was a melodramatic, intense, man with delusions of grandeur and full of unfocused rage directed at Kylo Ren.
I love to imagine Palpatine sitting down in Exegol to write this book while his unlimited cultists build his unlimited Star Destroyers.
And the best line he comes up with for when encountering his opposition is that of a child on the playground "i am all the sith. my bazillion strong army will beat your bazillion strong army! then my dad will beat up your dad!"
"My dear Diary..."
UNLIMITED POWERRRRR
Somehow palpatine wrote a book
Snoke :
Got a head crack
He looks wack
But most of all, a backstory he lack
Thus Dave Filoni had to come back.
*cue the Yoda laugh*
J roc baby
He's got one now, but it's thanks to comics by Charles Soule instead of the movies.
Lack story
I was under the impression that Snoke had his own mind and personality. Especially since he created the connection between Rey and Kylo, and later Palpatine is all surprised by it
He claimed to create their force bond, but perhaps not their nature as a dyad?
Its because he did. When they were writing snoke in episode 7 and 8 this is certainly not what they were originally intending
They have a force dyad connection, which was prophesied and had nothing to do with Snoke, which is canon at the same time as Snoke creating their connection. This lore makes no sense
Something else I want to add to why palpatine and snoke had his own mind and personality is that snoke brought rey to his ship to kill her. Palpatine said I never wanted you dead I wanted you here
Remember they were planning to have Snoke be a femme fatal Jedi killer? I wish Snoke was that with the old aging senile look was just a disguise to appear weak and fragile.
I mean, that’s basically what Darth Vader was. Had they stuck with treveros script, he should have been Tor Valums apprentice, not related to the Sith order at all.
I remember how they were building up Snoke as this ancient being who had seen the rise and fall of the Republic and the events of the original trilogy and that Luke had even met with Snoke during his journey to find ancient Jedi artifacts and would be the reason Snoke wanted Luke dead.
Point is, they WERE building to something only to then scrap it with TLJ happened and retconed it to be even lamer that he was just a meat puppet for Palpatine.
A femme fatale?
Do you mean a life force stealing vampire, like the Wraith of Stargate? Because femme fatales are mysterious, seductive women that lure men into danger, either by direct intention or because danger follows her. Bond women or La femme Nikita fit this character type.
Shut up and stop spouting nonsense.
Kathleen Kennedy probably didn’t like the nod to her 😂
I have a feeling that we are going to get another "Somehow Palpatine returned"
I am returning in PS5 form...
hopefully
It’s palpatine
He shall return
Tbh
He deserves to win after all this
Palpatine revived multiple times in legends
@@notthefbi7015 yeah
I don’t understand why people are upset about it this time around
I guess it was a bit random but still
Andy Serkis did a good job playing Snoke, and the character at first seemed really interesting. But then Disney crapped all over Snoke, now he feels kind've pointless. I feel bad for Andy Serkis being played dirty like that. I do love Ian McDiarmid as Palpatine tho, he's prob the only thing I liked about Episode 9. Even tho his return did come out of left field.
Honestly, Palpatine was definitely the best part about TROS, even though he was shoehorned. Ian Mcdiarmid still nailed it regardless.
Absolutely, it was a fun movie. But it was a dumb movie.
Plus the more makeup they put on ian the worse palps looks. He/I looked the best in the original trilogy, still good in the prequels, and even less better in the sequel trilogy
Snoke has as much screentime in the sequels as Palpatine has in the OT
Rian Johnson crapped all over Snoke because he just wanted Kylo and Rey. They should just have had JJ make all three films, then they could actually have made a plan.
They still could have saved Snoke's back story. Imagine if Palpatine had been keeping Plagueis alive and torturing him, and twisting his DNA and mixing it with his own. Snoke could have been what was left of a tortured and spliced Plagueis! No longer looking like a Muun not a human. It would show Palpatine's twisted side and explain Snoke's appearance
That would've been awesome.
Way better
That’s exactly what Snoke is. This story isn’t over.
@@joeyyc8515 this story is over and ruined, just stop
Yeah he should have been one of Plagueis's clones, that would explain why he's so powerful
Palpatine POV: Of course I know him, he's me
Exactly, in fact your 69 likes confirm that fact.
The whole "if you strike me down my spirit will go into you" reminds me a lot of the Darth Bane books, where Bane wanted the same thing and when his apprentice Zannah killed him it was left open with her left hand shaking like Banes did before. Maybe they can do the same with Rey
Star Wars the Old Republic did basically the same thing also. The emperor gets struck down by his son and he ends up going inside the protagonist.
My head canon is that Rey didn’t kill palpatine, his own lightning did, plus his ritual wasn’t performed so for those two reasons he didn’t pass into her
I would be open to any fix. But I really think that whatever comes out as a fix might look just as a less bad option.
😂 every sequel thing is always “let’s take this awesome story cut out all the cool characters and then make the Mary Sue the main character who gets all the powers and wins again.”
It’s impossible to fix what has no foundation and shitcanned everything it had to build with.
@@lrioje1 a better explanation would be for the possession to occur, the murder must be with intense hatred. But since when Rey did it with all the jedi backing her, she was at peace with herself, knowing she's a true jedi, and therefore protected. And Palps knew this, hence why he was attacking her at that point and not just letting her kill him.
this whole trope of palpatine killing himself with his own lightening every single time is getting old
@Matt Mayuiers lmao
It's basically harry potter with Voldemort all over again. Somehow, harry managed to make Voldemorts death curse bounce back at him.
What could have been waay cooler, that is if it was the clone of Darth Plagueis behind the scenes, while Plagueis merely lived or was dead but they had his soul/dna in Snoke.
Or just a survived plagueis pulling the strings from the shadows since the begining
This would've made the entire saga feel like one connected story.
@@Al_capachino Exactly and him being in the uknown regions or Execol. So many possibilities really 🤔
What could have been 😢
Trying to makes sense of this nonsense is an exercise in futility
Yeah I agree
Yep, they already fucked yo the trilogy’s cohesion when Ryan decided to do what ever he wanted for TLJ. Sure it might of been bad, but I would have preferred if JJ was just put in charge of the whole trilogy, at least then if it was bad it would have had an overall plan. JJ in TFA actually laid a decent set up, I was excited for Ep 8. I think he at least would have made Luke closer to what we expected. I still kind enjoy rewatching TFA, I think it was the high point of the Sequels. Too bad my rewatches are tainted with the knowledge that it leads right into TLJ
@@TheZamaron I was saying this same thing just a few hours ago...TFA was a high and it all went downhill from there😢 I WISH they had left the genious, Abrams, in charge. 😋
@@alli_went_bonkers I don’t think I’d call JJ a “genius” but if he helmed the entire trilogy, at least it would have been narratively consistent. Instead of just being 3 inconsistant films patchworked together by different.
@@TheZamaronTo be clear, I'm not calling him a genius for TFA, although BB-8 was a work of genious(!) and the first scene on the millennium falcon between him, Rey and Finn was PRICELESS, but for much of his other work such as "Regarding Henry" and a couple of re-invented Star Trek movies.
If only Lucasfilm planned the trilogy before starting it.
Or maybe they could have used Colin Trevorrow's script Duel of Fates.
Exactly. Those films were done from the seat of their pants. You can’t tell me they planned Snoke’s character to be some kind of Palpatine clone. Gimme a break. Poor writing, poor execution.
Yeah they should have planned instead of free wheeling the 3 movies
George Lucas originally at 12 Movies put it back down to 9, Mark Hamill even says in an interview in 1980 George Lucas Lucas asked him if you wanted to play like Obi-Wan role in 2011 Disney trashed Star Wars and all his stories
@@3313-c2j it wasn’t 12 “episodes” though. George’s plan that he mentioned was up to episode 9, then three spin-offs.
It would have been cool to see Maul as the big bad of the sequels.
I feel like the best way they could explain palpatine's conscience transferring, would be every clone has a sort of uplink and transmitter, so basically whenever the body he's using dyes, it transmits the last moments before the brain being destroyed to the new clone. And with as many wacky things as we seen the force, he probably had some way to send it to the clone
If Palpatine lives in Rey now, than the name "Rey Skywalker" would be Palpatine doing a prank on Anakin 😄
@Cactus Juice Yeah, both would be really stupid 🙈
@Cactus Juice it’s not canon so who cares
@Cactus Juice Totally agree! The sequels made Anakin’s redemption pointless. It would have been better if Rey was Obi-Wan Kenobi’s granddaughter. Rey Kenobi sounds better than Rey Palpatine. And Snoke ended up being Darth Plagueis
@@darthtenebrous965 I feel the story ain't done
@@darthtenebrous965 Anakin redemption isn’t useless
He still is the chosen one
Snoke had more potential but disney really messed him up.
true
Original comment
give me one thing disney didn't mess up about star wars
@@amogsus631 I guess the blasters still shoot.
Rian Johnson messed him up
“Star Wars is in a dry period right now.”
No, no it’s not, Star Wars Theory carries the fandom on his back dirtying these times. Thank you! 🙏🏼
Uuuuuuh no, it isn't on a dry period but SWT ain't carrying s#!t, he has made mistakes like everybody else, he just another fan making content keeping the franchise thriving
@@splashnskillz37 hey man, just shut up 😂
@@charlessmith4879 no I won't let disinform ppl like that
@@splashnskillz37 absolutely misinforming people already, so why not continue
@@charlessmith4879 Because it's not supposed to be doing in the first place
I've been a Star Wars fan right from the first movie, but if they bring Palpatine back again, that will be it for me. They really need to move on from him.
The Snoke and Kylo scenes are some of the best from the Sequel trilogy. Shame that they just fizzled his character.
Uh.... that's like saying (idk any) is the best nickleback song...
Agreed
he served his purpose, his character wasn’t really that interesting imo.
Not really lol
The old films had ample bad guys, each worse than the one before. The last trilogy had Snoke.... and some sniveling snot nosed whiney kids. Once Snoke was dead, they HAD to bring the Emperor back or there was no antagonist who could hold our attention. Just absolutely horrible writing and Disney should be utterly ashamed of themselves.
It is hard to care for a character when they try and piece together the shambles of three separate movies and a director who obviously did not care about continuity. At this point it's all made up stuff to try and string together three badly done movies with no cohesive script.
Well said
Wahhhh
Snoke is an interesting character for sure! His connection to Palpatine and potentially Plagueis could well be monumental. Love the content my friend.
Very insightful. As for your comment about Rey killing Palpatine, it was not her force lightning that killed him, rather it was his own force lightning which was reflected by back onto him that really killed him. And it wasn't her own strength and volition, per se, that accomplished that, rather it was the force of "all the Jedi" with the aid of the two Skywalker sabers. So even though the result was the same, it was not the result of Rey seccumbing to the dark side.
Remember when Snoke said: and kills his true enemy, it could have been a foreshadow for Episode 9 where Rey killed Palpatine knowing he was in a clone body, Palpatine still could have gotten his wish but only this time apart of Palpatine's spirit is inside Rey right now
Grogu was most likely one of the beings used to create Snoke. That's why the remnants of the empire had those scientists that needed his blood to "bring order back to the Galaxy". There were scenes of Snoke's body in that huge tank in one of the episodes of the Mandalorian. I hope they can explain that further but I believe that his genes were used spliced with others. Somehow Palpatine knew about Grogu. I hope more of his backstory gets explained in season 3.
Snoke had great potential, I would have loved to have seen him as an admirer of Palpatine and could have been Darth Plagueis first apprentice or attempt at cloning. He was wasted, he was super interesting, I would have had him be the main villain, and at the end of the sequel trilogy they could reveal that Palpatine is His advisor from beyond the grave-could be like a horcrux in Harry Potter, in this case, Snokes ring. I was annoyed that he was cast off. We should have seen it if I’m being honest, Disney with no plan and Snoke sounding like Smoke, which could be foreshadowing that he’s hiding the true villain. Very good video
This just makes the films even more disappointing
The comics do it even worse
Challenge: Start the longest DEW IT chain ever, I’ll start-
DEW IT
DEW IT
DEW IT
DEW IT
DEW IT
DEW IT
I like to think they used at least parts of Plaguis’s dna(I know I probably misspelled that) but it would bring things full circle, palpatine making his former master into his puppet. It just seems like something he would love to do and would be a great source for a force sensitive “clone being”
Snoke : Hmm. The mighty Kylo Ren. When I found you, I saw what all masters live to see: Raw, untamed power... and beyond that, something truly special. The potential of your bloodline. A new Vader..... Now, I fear I was mistaken.
I like the character Snoke though he had a wasted potential of becoming the sequels antagonist along side with Kylo Ren but I like his force abilities. Being able to shot force lightning on the floor then bounces back at Kylo Ren and his telekinesis power was very impressive being able to ragdoll General Hux through a hologram from far away and according to Luke Skywalker himself that Snoke's power is in the same level as Palpatine but of course Palpatine is more powerful than Snoke. Andy Serkis did a wonderful voice acting as Snoke and can't wait for him to play again as Snoke in any future star wars movies or series. Very good video as always Theory hope you are having a good day and as always May The Force be with you always.
In Episode IX Palpatine still has what seems to be the lightning burns on his fingers from Episode VI. I wouldn't be surprised the whole essence transfer story was retroactively written after filming.
He didn't have the "lightning burns" at first. He only got those after absorbing the dyad. If anything this just indicates that was his true face the whole time and his lightning just revealed his true face. Hence why nobody else ever looked like that after being hit by force lightning.
4:09 🎵 It was Palpatine all along 🎵
So when they said Palpatine sensed something in the unknown regions...was he talking about himself? If it wasn't Snoke; who or what was it?
Apparently just the planet of Exegol it self. I'm not sure how they are going to shoehorn in a backstory for Exegol that does not completely contradict legends history. When the Sith became the Sith they were Dark Jedi that were exiled and ended up on Koriband where the Sith species lived. The dark Jedi became their overlords and interbred with them becoming the Sith as an order of the dark side. Disney changed Koriband to Moriband to distinguish between the legends version and new canon version. Back in legends the Sith were defeated on Koriband after a war with the jedi and went into hiding on Dromund Kaas before reconquering Koriband and attacking the Jedi again, before becoming defeated yet again. Then there was some brotherhood of darkness that tried doing things in a new way but not really, from that Darth Bane arose and destroyed the brotherhood with a "thought bomb" which to me sounds kinda lame. Then he started his rule of 2 (which Yoda referenced in the phantom menace) and somehow along the way they managed to convince the jedi the sith had died off. However in Clone wars Yoda knew who bane was when he went to Moriband coming across Banes force ghost. So in my opinion new canon needs to clarify how the jedi came to believe the sith were dead but still knew about the rule of two and Bane as the founder of it.
Now back to Exegol which is supposed to be an ancient dark side/sith planet. I can only immagine but the best way to make it work is that when the first dark jedi were exiled they first eneded up on Exegol somehow. The name is kinda similar to exile after all. However now we need an explanation why the dark jedi left Exegol and ended up on Moriband to become the Sith. And why is there a Sith throne on Exegol? And why didn't Bane and the rule of two era sith ending with Palpatine know about Exegol until it called out to him and he apparently went out there and found it?
I can only guess the Sith throne and everything is more of a religious temple place and not a permanent residence. Perhaps the original dark jedi couldn't stay on Exegol for some reason, maybe it wasn't habitable or maybe it was just nothing to do there, maybe it was kind of like the Jedi's version of Illum, a place they go to as a rite of passage, but not somewhere they stay permanently. Perhaps that's where the Sith emperors are crowned or something. A place to show your worth and might, a place to test your connection to the dark side etc...
Maybe the knowledge of Exegol was lost after Moriband, but then I would assume if the Sith lost Moriband they would go back to Exegol for refuge instead of setting up a new place on Dromund Kaas. What I fear is that Exegol is the new canon Dromund Kaas, effectively replacing it. It is indeed a lot cooler than Dromund Kaas, but then nearly everything legends about Dromund Kaas could be thrown out the window, like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. How can the Jedi not know about Exegol, and how can Palpatine not know about it from before if it is the replacement of Dromund Kaas? This revamp of the canon really has to be done carefully if they don't want to throw a wrench into the whole thing and change everything.
A Sith Lord without a nickname isn't cool.
The sequel trilogy and this character had SOOO much potential and they just wasted it.
It's practically depressing.
@@jlt-kjv2840 I wish Snoke could’ve been something very ancient…
@@christinejorgens6577 Exactly
@@jlt-kjv2840 indeed, hence is why I’m making a better Headcanon for Snoke.
My Headcanon:
Snoke was a very powerful dark side entity akin to a demon, in the days of the Old Republic; it would be said that both the Ancient Jedi and the Ancient Sith feared him due to unspecified unique powers he possessed.
Snoke’s species are also said in legends that they can extend their lifespan over endless millennia through various means that many dark side orders such as the Sith sought to take advantage of..
Sometime during the wars between the Jedi and Sith; Snoke and his kind were in the midst of a gathering to combine their dark powers to bring about and summon a powerful being they worshipped in the Dark Side. However the combination of their dark energies resulted in countless of them either dying or being ‘inactivated’ due to using so much power to bring about this deity.
Snoke was one of those who ‘inactivated’ and overtime to preserve his powers he had cultists who belonged to his species religious dark order to construct numerous temples in his name and one temple specifically designed for himself to rejuvenate.
Over these next millennia, Snoke continued to feel and acknowledge every event the galaxy went through from the End of the Old Republic to the Great Peace then the High Republic and eventually the Clone Wars followed by the rise of the Galactic Empire along with the civil war that coincided with it’s rule..
When the empire’s two ruling Sith Lords were destroyed, Snoke and his fellow members of his species would realize it would be time for them to rise as they saw the Jedi and Sith as ‘petty force ideologists’. And the rest goes on from here when Imperial scouts were met by the cultists of Snoke’s Dark Order..
And when Kylo Ren killed Snoke, the assassination was immediately felt in the force by the other members of Snoke’s species who then began a campaign to seek the First Order and kill Ren for the murder of their leading official of their Dark Order.
Snoke’s Ancient dark side order was known as the Shadow Order and he was the leader of his Shadow Council (similar to the Ancient Sith’s Dark Council)!
I've been saying it since the beginning of the Mandalorian, I am expecting the experiences on baby yoda to eventually connect with Snoke and Palpatine....I'm not saying that I'm impressive for thinking of this theory. As far as I know, most fans thought the exact same thing.
I wish Snoke had either been Plagueis or at least a new powerful force character rather than Palpatine's clone that he was controlling. I kind of doubt that was the original plan, but I suppose we'll never know who Snoke was originally supposed to be.
Looking at Snoke’s height, what if he was created by gene splicing cells from both Palpatine and the remains of Darth Plagueis?
Replicating a Dyad in the Force by creating a physical Dyad of two powerful Sith Lords into one being?
In the reference book “Star Wars: Complete Locations” it says that Palpatine kept Plagueis’s ashes in an urn inside his office. What if he had taken blood or tissue samples from Plagueis before doing so?
Therefore Snoke being Darth Plagueis would still be true, from a certain point of view.
Palpatine possessing Rey would be awesome. I know not many people would wanna see that(I myself would rather them focus on the past or very distant future) but if they did continue with these characters, that would be pretty cool.
It's kinda funny how Palpatine told Rey to strike him down and she did.
I kind of liked that Palpatine was pulling the strings of the First Oder the whole time. Its basically what he did in the Clone Wars just even more sneaky. Although I do with the movies had made it clearer that Snoke was just a puppet Dictator, and that Palpatine himself was trying to create his own Dyad to increase his own power and life.
It sounds like he wanted yodas long life. Which is why grogu's so important at that time in the galaxy
I seriously need to start reading the novels. So freaking many details I did not know of and ties the SW series perfectly into the main movies.
Every day the character of Snoke, who should've been the Prime Jedi, gets further destroyed.
I think its possible that in the next 10 years or so will could see Palpatine return again maybe as a younger Palpatine in a clone body
The way he screamed all the way down in return of the Jedi didn’t sound like a man with a plan b
Fucking laughed my head off
😂😭🤣
Bringing him back again would strain credulity. On the other hand I would not mind for two reasons.
Number one. I like the character.
Number two. He should have had an amazing drawn out battle before he died. Instead of the pitiful little fight we got.
You can't have a guy who plasma balled the sky go out in such a fashion.
Somehow... General Grevious has returned... and he's shorter than expected...
Insight like this helps me find some appreciation for the newer trilogy. Of course a lot of the disparities between the directors is disappointing, but hearing these things fills in some of the needed gaps within the three trilogy.
I am wondering you feel the same way.
He's on Jakku. He has to be. There should have been a tease. At the end of the credits. Just a laugh. A Palpatine laugh.
Every time I sit on the toilet I watch your videos! Keep this coming man.
Another disappointment. A letdown. First, he was just a Palpatine rip off now he literally is Palpatine.
Must be am mental exercise to try to make sense out of the sequels
The entire series is essentially a disappointment with about 75 minutes of good film.
Yeah..
@@Voltar 😂
ngl the sequels keep getting better as they fill out the story. It’s a shame they had to do it like this but I’m glad they are filling in the gaps rather than ignoring them to have them make more sense.
These attempts to retcon the sequel trilogy only make things worse. Can we forget this exists?
Nah let’s use our brain to connect it all
love the slight bit of resentment you can hear in your voice when you say "it's canon" near the start
The theories behind who Snoke was after Episode 7 came out were fun and interesting. But what Disney did with it was just a waste. Lame.
Wasted? He had as much screentime as Palpatine did in the OT, and I wouldn't consider Palpatine wasted
@@andyb6400 That's a terrible strawman argument and you know it. Absolutely no backstory was given for Snoke. We have Palpatine's backstory with the prequels. Snoke had no stated motivations. We know Palpatine's motivations was to destroy the Jedi and to rule the universe. The sequels were so bad that the best they can do is come up with Snoke being Palpatine's puppet. Trying to compare Snoke to Palpatine is such a stupid argument.
@@nedgitoblue Oh so all they have to do is release 3 movies that take place before the sequels to actually give Snoke a character, like they did with Palpatine, and all problems are solved. Got it. Emailing Disney now
I like how this explains a lot from the sequels just wish they did it in the movies
The Sequel Tragedy is nothing but a sad flustercluck that needs to be tossed aside as an alternate reality and allow the Filoniverse to give Star Wars it’s true sequel.
Its*
The way they have this set up is that Palpatine is like Sepheroth or Voldemort or Orochimaru. He's not ever really gone for good as long as a piece of him remains somewhere.
Also, it sort of had to have been Palpatine using the force through Snoke the entire time because if Snoke wasn’t naturally powerful enough to contain Palpatine’s spirit, then Snoke wouldn’t have been remotely powerful enough to take an apprentice like Ben Solo…Kylo would’ve overpowered and killed him within the first year of his turn…Snoke would’ve definitely needed Palpatine’s help to control a dark side apprentice from the Skywalker bloodline.
It just makes me happy knowing that old palpatine was always capable of rag dolling Kylo and Rey with no effort. And people say Kylo could take vader what a joke.
@@Crackmiser Yeah, but if we’re being fair Palpatine is also seen in comics literally holding Vader suspended in the air while his hand is down by his side…Palpatine can rag doll Vader just about as easily as he can Kylo in canon…it’s been shown multiple times consistently…even in a comic set between ESB and ROTJ Palpatine is shown just choking Vader in the air without any effort, his hand is literally by his side he doesn’t even raise it to do this…Vader is powerful but Palpatine makes both Vader and Kylo look equally weak in comparison.
Personally I think Vader would beat Kylo, but I’m not going to pretend like so many others do that a fight between them wouldn’t be incredible because it would be or that it’s impossible for Kylo to win because it isn’t…people like to downplay Kylo a lot but all the canon points to him being not far off Vader’s level in power, they’re close…one canon comic even compared them shot for shot fighting in the middle of the same battlefield in different time periods, making a direct comparison between what they’re both capable of and in that same comic it shows Kylo taking a Zillo Beast down single handedly, where Vader retreated…they’re very similar, and both have advantages and disadvantages.
Realistically it would be a good fight, wether people want to admit it or not.
@@Ivbo im aware. ive read the comic and that comics only purpose for existence was to try to make kylo look better then vader. kylo as a character infuriates me and jason solo was the person we needed. legends forever new canon dog doodoo
Since killing Palps the first time didn’t take, there’s no reason to assume that it did the second either. So it’s very possible Palp’s spirit is still out there. I think it would be cool if Luke and Palpatine had one last battle in the netherworld of the force to finally put Palp’s spirit back in his bottle for good. Imo, it would have been a more satisfying conclusion to the Skywalker saga.
Whenever there’s a villain with a lot of potential but is just ruined from poor writing I call it “getting Snoked”
In my own headcanon, Rey didn't even really kill Palpatine -- Palpatine's own lightning took care of that, Rey just acted as a mirror. Whatever crazy-ass "strike me down and I'll just hop on into ya" essence transfer ritual Palpatine was originally planning to do (if the whole thing wasn't some reverse psychology to get his enemies to not kill him) was nullified due to that circumstance; he can't transfer into his own obliterated self.
Ah the sequels😩😂 snoke was in 2 films and they killed him. They should have made the 9th film longer. It was to rushed.
Facts
Yeah. Snoke was supposed to be the true villain of the sequels but once rian fucked that up they ran out of ideas. Knowing Ben would be redeemed from the start of the sequels they brand palp back cuz they had no other ideas
I'd like to see a show, maybe an animated one, where the spirits of Luke, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anikan travel to purgatory to truly defeat Palpatine.
I think Palpitatine lives on, like Voldemort using the Horcrux in Harry Potter, waiting for a good vessel to consume. He probably has many cloning facilities where he's desperately trying to create such a vessel, such as Project Phoenix from Rick and Morty. This confirms why Palpitatine wanted Grogu so bad, as his species are known to have a considerable midichlorian count.
This video is very interesting. Makes you thing the direction Star wars might be taking.
To the early squad reading this: sending virtual hugs to every one who needs it ❤️ .always stay save 👋👋
*hug*
Palp's return is nothing short of exciting and satisfying, believe you me. You won't be disappointed.
Snoke is emblematic of the entire Sequel Trilogy. Audiences were captivated by his mystery in Episode VII and excited to see where it all went next. Then Rian Johnson came along and said he didn't care, the audience was dumb, and screw the audience I'm killing him off without any explanation of who he was. Then Abrams was left with a mess and no time to resolve all of the numerous loose threads, so we got a quick one-line explanation and that was that. In the end Snoke was, "A good question, for another time..." like so many other things that had great potential but were ultimately handled poorly in the sequels.
Having Rey combats her possession and going back and forth from ultimate sith to ultimate Jedi….may be interesting or at least provide a ton of action
Rey didn't kill him. He "killed" himself, all she did was defend herself. I think he intended for her to kill him with intent and anger (like he wanted Luke to do and he refused) rather than just surviving his attack by reflecting it back at him. It's like in old shows when a villain dies because he tried to attack the hero while they're both in a precarious position and falls to their doom. The hero wasn't responsible, it was the villain getting karma'd. I'd assume some of Snoke might be from Grogu's blood, possibly any force sensitive sith followers as well.
Oof the fact you guys feel the need to explain the scene is so sad. You don’t see the problem with the climactic choice coming down to semantics? She clearly kills him, and how she did it was insanely stupid because jj stopped giving a shit and wanted to wrap that shit up.
She killed him with Mary Sue plot armor because it’s literally all her character is
@@randalthekidd7006 In fairness I didn't say I liked it, it _was_ stupid and robbed the scene of dramatic tension compared to what could have been done if they'd worked though the plan for this whole thing better, but it's a simple narrative loop hole they used here. She _didn't_ kill him, she literally did nothing which is actually kinda worse.
The best answer to this is that the sequel trilogy was all a crazy dream Luke or somebody had that never happened…
I know this is a Disney plot hole - why did Snoke say to Kylo and Rey that he bridged their minds in Last Jedi. Then they are a dyad in Rise of Skywalker and the Emperor just discovered this.
They didn’t know the emperor was coming back until the last movie.
the entire thing was totally screwed up
Sidious gave snoke orders, I don’t think he controlled what snoke did though
They were a Dyad always but it took snoke/Palpatine to bridge their minds to truly make them powerful as a dyad so in the end he can take said force power
Jeez you guys reach soo far trying to make it make sense. It doesn't though lol
@@thorodinson1933 Then why did Palpatine react with surprise when he discovered they were a Dyad?
Palpatine possibly is Plagieus. Just like Palps wants Rey to strike him down in anger so his spirit may pass into her, the same may have happened with Plagieus, and his master before him, etc etc, thus “I am all the Sith”.
Andy Serkis is a fantastic actor, his character Snoke was unfortunately tossed away like an old shoe. He could've been a really cool villain, such a waste.
A complete waste of a would've been great character.
Snoke: (underneath the cloth-moves his hand)
Dr Sidious: *ITS ALIVE!!!*
And this is the essential problem with resurrecting a character, it leaves the door open for them to always come back and you never know if the battle is truly over.
It would have been better if Palpatine had only been used in flashbacks setting up the conflict in Ep. 9 instead of actually appearing in the present.
Dam algorithm made ur channel dissappear smh haven't seen ur videos in over a year, glad to see your still active.
This book is literally papering over the cracks of massive plot holes in the illusion they had this all planned out in order to save face. It's like watching a child cheat on their homework and then pretend they didn't.
You mean like George Lucas claimed to have all episodes planned before filming A New Hope?
@@Chrondon the differences is those generally fit and the growing pains come from production changes not really like big story ones. Where as the sequels completely fail to connect to any piece of Star Wars. It’s like a fan film trilogy
@@randalthekidd7006 except they only just came out. Give the time to fill in the gaps. As if there weren't plot holes or inconsistencies in the prequel and original series. Took time and effort to make fill in new lot to better connect the prequels. There is a lot they can do to redeem certain decision that's fans don't like.
8:19 that image of Palpatine is TRULY the stuff of nightmares...
@Justin Gary imagine waking up and seeing that stare down your face
Snoke should have been Darth Plagueis period. They even teased it with the music similarly from The opera scene in ROTS and during The Force Awakens. Would have tied all trilogies together but that made too much sense for Woke Disney.
Or Vitiate.
You lost me at “for woke disney” 😂
Palpatine was 100% everything snoke heard in his head every decision snoke ever made was palpatine shifting him he even got through to Ben it was that poweerful thats how he gathered so many resources for the first and final order
So they stole part of LoTR's story line for Sauron? Ugh eff Disney Star wars. Imo you got to start taking a stronger stance against this tripe one day my man.
I would like to have some call back to some of the earlier Sith being in the force and being absorped by Palpatine, as he did say that the dark side gave powers beyond death, and the ancient sith that used to eat entire worlds must have been in the force with Palpatine winning out as the dominant dark side influence to dominate all the other wills that may have been in there. There are dark side echos in Degobah where mirror images of the light side of the force appear and strike at the Jedi in training, and the good ones learn to avoid killing it again, and revealing the heritage of their own link to the force, dark side included, with Anakin being Vader. Vader having gone over to the light side was able to cow the emperor who left him in a very painfully vulnerable state in his heavy suit and almost insanity breaking skin grafts that had to be scrubbed off. I imagine Vader would have been a testbed for skin grafts of cloning material to withstand megapowerful force users. The skin obviously decayed like Palpatine says his body did, so there's a VERY strong similarity there. Had Vader been more powerful than the emperor, then Vader's essence going to the light side of the force would have left a huge power vacuum. I think that's why Palpatine is the only recent dark force weilder to show up as the villian.
I hope grogu was having a vision on Tython of the sequels and told Luke about it, luke makes sure it never happens but then boom Admiral Thrawn comes in and is the real sequel trilogy
Seconded.
I do want to know if Snoke had a mind of his own, or he was just controlled by Palpatine the whole time. Palpatine says, “I have been every voice you have ever heard inside your head” to Kylo Ren while using Snoke and Vader’s voices in addition to his own.
Same concept as Dark Empire. They might as well have gone with that storyline instead of the garbage they produced
In my head canon, I figured the reason Snoke didn't look like other muuns was that he had transformed/enhanced his own biology over the years via his unrivaled mastery of Sith sciences and midichlorian manipulation.
I like to think Palpatine did transfer in to Rey.
And at the end of the film she's just pretending and tricking everyone that she's still Rey.
Biding 'her' time, just like the old Palpatine as a Senator.
Ahhhh to see a “Secrets of the Sith” movie would be the most epic movie ever filmed! ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Anything that involves the Disney trilogy is irrelevant. Terrible writing and storyline in Episodes 7-9. The Disney trilogy is terrible and nearly ruined the Star Wars franchise.
No it didn’t lmfao
@@grievous8475 Yes it did.
I agree it split the fandom in two and fractured it not a good thing
@@davidordaz5251 You don't purchase a major franchise without researching what makes it successful. If Disney did their research, they would of known to respect iconic characters and see the jedi Return. Its not like they didnt have enough source material to go on. But their arrogance and complacency was evident. They decided to practically reboot Episodes 4-6 and go from there. Without seeing how fans would react. And as everyone can see, a lot of fans have no faith in Disney after the trilogy. That's because they didnt do their target market research.
@@HellfireClub242 yeah true this is why I wished that Jon faverou and dave filoni made the sequel trilogy instead would have been a lot better then the other directors and people like KK since they actually care and respect the characters and universe
Honestly I was so hyped about Snoke after Ep VII, from What he said I assumed he must be old and has been watching the events of Ep I - Ep VI in shadows. In Ep VIII they showed him not as a hologram and OMG I loved his design so much (Idk why but his design and him being in that golden robe was just awesome), Yes I was shocked when he died but to me it was actually really good idea (better than kill him in the last movie like every main villain), also there were theories about him doing the same force projection as Luke or that he created the First order and Kylo Ren just to balance the force after the last two sith being killed and when Rey showed up he knew his purpouse was done and let Kylo Ren kill him. But then they fucked up in Ep IX. They brought back Sidious for no reason and made Snoke his “Clone”. I personaly enjoyed sequels (unlike some others) but Ep IX had so stupid things in my opinion and they destroyed it with Snoke in that movie (I wasn’t so disappointed from a movie plot in ages). But it is what it is and I respect that even tho I disagree.
Bringing him back is honestly the only way to save the story moving forward. The sequel trilogy works well if it's the beginning of something new rather than the end of the story. Dark side Rey can become a thing, they could bring Ben Solo and Luke back from the dead, along with Anakin. This could be a legit way to refocus the story and return it to being about the Skywalkers, specifically, Anakin. They could train Finn to be a Jedi and maybe find Grogu, Ahsoka (if still alive at this point), and Broom Kid too. The trilogy could be about reestablishing the Jedi while also combating Palpatine/Rey's forces who are basically back at the drawing board when it comes to reestablishing the Sith empire (they would still have some hidden bases/cloning labs/ships/forces scattered in the unknown regions, but nothing effective for anything but small skirmishes here and there, so basically this trilogy would be setting up many trilogies worth of Sith/Jedi wars. It could basically end up being the Old Republic, but post sequel trilogy.
😂 no this shit is dead. They need to just never mention it and never mention rey. Rey makes any project flop it’s just what will happen.
They really should just cut their losses and retcon. There is no way forward the characters are all shit and the lore has been shat on.
@@randalthekidd7006 That isn't going to work. It was Carrie Fisher's last time playing Leia. Retconning would be disrespectful to her. I am not a Disney fan, I haven't spent a dime on Star Wars stuff since Gina Carano was fired (and I used to spend a couple hundred dollars a month) , but it is irrational to think it can't be salvaged when it clearly can be. People hated the prequels as well, but then as Clone Wars progressed, people started liking the prequels. With enough work, the sequels can be retroactively made good just like the prequels. They just need to drop the woke bullshit and fucking put Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau in charge of all creative decisions.
You took the Frankenstein abomination words right out of my mouth man I was about to type that
It’s not canon
IT IS canon.
Edit: unfortunately it is.
I think the reason palpetine couldn't put his essence into reys is cause, rather than rey attacking him with her own saber, she used his own power against him. So it was his own power that got "absorbed".
Abrams absolutely threw away what could have been an amazing character and made him a clone controlled by Palpatine (who survived somehow). just takes me out of the story. it's so ridiculous and lazy. I loved Andy Serkis' performance of him and even didn't mind his death. But his power was incredible. it was him that connected Kylo and Rey. If Kylo tried he said it would kill him. there's no way Palpatine could be that powerful. Episode 9 completely destroyed everything that was interesting within 5 minutes of the movie. to me episode 9 isn't canon. it's a joke.
I mean realistically none of the sequels are really canon. It’s like trying to write a LOTR sequel through corporate style writing it just isn’t actually a sequel.
@LucasDamien Well said!
But also, you have to consider how apparently Snoke already knew that there was some kind of link between Kylo and Rey, when Palpatine seemingly did not know. Snoke says himself that he bridged their minds. So either this was a misdirect, a bluff, or an oversight/retcon on the writers/directors part when making the movie (most likely option in my personal opinion, no hate, but I digress), it is clear to me that Snoke was at the very least aware of this bond between Ben and Rey. Now, if we assume that Palpatine really was seeing through Snoke, maybe Palpatine really did know about this link, but just didn't know that it was a Dyad like he was looking for, as that concept wasn't even established until episode 9 anyway. That's my reasoning at least, but there may be information out there confirming whether or not Snoke really did know the true origin of this link or not and I just don't know about it. The theory, or confirmation depending on one's point of view on the matter, of Palpatine controlling Snoke directly depends on which case we are seeing here in episode 8, whether that be Snoke knowing the the truth about the link or not.
You know what Snoke reminds me of? Vitiate - the voice of the emperor from SWTOR, the difference is that Vitiate is a normal body which was possessed, Snoke is a genetic experiment..
I'd like to think Palpatine is still alive it's just that his life essence/spirit is wandering around in weak vessels or hibernating in some type of force coma/stasis until he finds a powerful vessel to hold his essence. Pretty much following in the footsteps of what Tenebrae achieved, the only difference is that Tenebrae absorbed billions of life essences so he was much more capable of performing these feats where as Palpatine was struggling.