Hobby Cheating 275 - Using a Universal Shadow Color
Вставка
- Опубліковано 18 жов 2024
- In this Hobby Cheating Tutorial, I take you through a single color you can use to shade every color, no matter what. I also walk you through the options for other tones you can use as universals. Hope you enjoy!
Merch Store: teespring.com/...
Twitter: @warhammerweekly
Instagram: VincentVenturella
Email: WarhammerWeeklyQuestions@gmail.com
Take a Class with Vince: ckstudios.bigc...
RPG Podcast: podcasts.apple...
Payne's Grey was actually invented by William Payne for this very purpose. He discouraged the use of black in canvas painting, a dark grey blue was proposed to replace it.
This is awesome. I had no idea. :)
whoa, nice fact
Didnt know that, thanks for this piece of info!
As something not very confident in blending of any kind, this visual representation helps a lot.
Excellent, happy to help. :)
Wow, this is awesome, Vince!
Honestly - as an illustrator, I'm learning so much great practical advice about *the application and use* of color from your videos... as much as I did in art school. Most art education focuses on color theory, which is fine... but after that, learning how to apply all that knowledge is an even bigger undertaking than understanding the theory itself.
[A side note regarding color] - one really good instructor gave me this mantra:
"Color is color only, according to: 1. Amount 2. Placement, and 3. Application."
...in other words, a color's appearance is affected by 1. how much of it there is, 2. what is around it, and 3. how it has been applied.
This principle is something you reinforce in your videos, along with a lot of great, practical application of the knowledge as it is used in real-life application on an actual piece. (For example, color recipes are not as impactful as how you actually apply the colors, in what order, etc.)
Once again, thanks for the great content and useful, practical information and advice. Plus, it's just plain fun to watch the paint go down, the effect come together, and to see the final result.
Mikey
Totally agree on the colors and always happy to help!
Since I semi-religiously buy everything you recommend, I've already had great mileage from Payne's Grey for a while now, but I now realize I hadn't fully appreciated all its use-cases. Thanks!
Great to hear! :)
Outstanding video Vince!! Just love how clearly you communicate your ideas/information visually & orally. Superb!!👌
Awesome! Thank you! Always happy to help. :)
Vince could literally talk about shaking paint bottles and ill watch every single second of it (ads too) and ill be like
"DANG! That was awesome!"
Well thank you, that means a great deal. :)
I purchased the Payne'ss gray ink and HBA and they are phenomenal to simulate shadows at night. I used them universally to darken all kinds of colors that faced away from a campfire and it gives it a perfect nightly atmosphere. Just added some brighter blue for the highlights and done.
100%
I love using Payne's Gray! I make glazes and washes from it. It works great when accenting cloth or skin-tone (of ALL skin tones!).
100%, it's just so useful.
I bought Payne's Gray about a year ago and find me using it on nearly every model. If I want to go darker I add a little bit of burnt umber.
Yep, that little burnt umber gives you the full blue-brown-black you will often see for really rich darks.
Taken to using Payne's Grey and a Warm Yellow for zenithal highlighting. Works nice in getting a base down.
100%, that's a nice combination.
If you want the absolutely most natural looking shadows the trick is to take the base color, add a touch of the complementary color, and add a touch of black. This will darken the paint but also lower the intensity of the base color.
This grey works well because its going to either tone down the reds and yellows, and just deepen the blue.
Yep, I've talked about the complimentary colors in some other videos as well, it's a great option :)
@@VinceVenturella fantastic!!! I am just getting started with painting but flag I have strong color theory and very sensitive eyes to pigment.
Another stellar video. Thanks Vince!
Thanks Vince! Great video, I impulse bought Payne's Gray a year ago and had no idea what to do with it, will give this a shot
Awesome, hope this helps. :)
agrax earthshade mixed with some drakenhoff night shade makes a nice paynes grey type tone too if you cant get the inks.
It's a good call back.
great stuff but I would like to see all of your hand work of dipping,, mixing, and palette activity thats just off camera...it all helps even the stuff you might think is redundant
In this case, I avoided it because there is not perfect ratio, I just mix it up and see. It's always experiementation and my best advice is just mix and test, you'll find the ratios that work for you. :)
Hey Vince! You recommended me an airbrush a few days ago and I ended up with an Infinity CR. 🤣 I really dont regret to buy a more expensive one cause I'm getting absolute stunning results with it even as a beginner. Thx dude for encouraging me to use an airbrush!
Great to hear! Always happy to help. :)
I have the CR and a Iwata hp-bh so my clumsy hands can use the limiter nob on back to get the exact spray size and consistency i want.
Helps me train my finger to use the CR for high detail work like plasma coils or necrons and their green glow.
Excellent advice. Thanks Vince. I'm trying to move away from using shade paints, and this seems like a good way to go.
Glad it was helpful!
I’ve been learning watercolours and Payne’s Grey is my go-to colour for controlling value right now. VanDyke brown is also useful on the warmer side of the spectrum, though.
Yep, very good, you can even mix them together for a really deep rich shadow.
In oil painting on canvas, Ultramarine plus Burnt Umber is a typical recipe for "chromatic black." That's not far off what we've got here.
When I started mixing artists paints, it was a surprise how differently they mix. Everything we learned in school was a lie!
Oh, the other thing: artists paints tell you what pigments are in each tube. A little detective work, and you can figure out what goes into a lot of tubes, and save yourself some money.
@@Mikey__R I was the terror of my high school art class when I got ahold of “blue and yellow don’t make green”, which is all about the physics of pigments and colour mixing. I recently re-read it and, well, some of it comes off like the ramblings of an internet crank but there’s still a lot of gold in there.
@@nicholascaldwell6079 I've not come across that, is it a textbook? Though I do agree, you can't make vibrant secondaries from primaries, they're always a bit muddy. Veridian was the missing link for me!
Well then. Time to add another product to the shopping cart.
Thanks Vince.
Fantastic results there. Thanks for the great content! Glad to see one of the products I already have highlighted as so widely usable.
Glad it was helpful!
This is great, thank you. This is very close to a technique I stole from painters long ago known as chromatic black or using dark complementary colors to create richer, more interesting blacks, but since they are chromatic, they can be easily mixed with other colors to create realistic shadows.
Yep, that's the idea, colors are always more interesting than not colors basically.
Love your content Vincent! One dilemma i struggle with is on the one hand always hearing you want to maximize contrast, but at the same time hearing that for example pure black is boring as your deepest shadows? How do I reunite these two seemingly opposing concepts. I try to have max contrast between my lightest and darkest points but when I put some almost pure black in my shadows it tends to look less vibrant vs shadowing with another color. Thanks again for your very helpful content
Through methods like you see here, what I mean by that is this isn't black, this is a black-blue, adding hue infused shadows is a way to keep darker areas more visually interesting. Basically, the need for more contrast doesn't mean you have to run from black to white (and in fact, that is wrong for many surfaces), it means you need torun froma deep shadow color infused version of the color to a high tint version for many surfaces. My recent video on how to Highlight Anything talks about this.
Liquitex muted grey is a purplish grey ink which would probably suit your uses :) I'm also looking into getting the golden high flow transparent shading grey for a more neutral shadow
Yep, this is another great color that is versatile.
This is awesome Vince, thank you for posting. I will look for payne's gray. I've been using GW Contrast Shyish Purple a lot for this effect, specially as a glaze with the airbrush.
Glad it was helpful!
Yellow - and light orange - would be the exception here, it’s usually best shadowed using browns or reds. In “classical” painting, you’d use burnt umber or burnt sienna.
Sure, if you are looking for warm shadows, thost are great colors, but if you are okay with a cold/warm exchange because you want cool shadows, this works. It's a question of the source of the light and where the shadow is from.
Sweet! I was hoping for a good universal shadow colour to go with the universal highlight. Thanks!
Glad I could help!
Vince, I’ve been relying on your videos for the past couple of years now to paint my army, so thank you! I’m building an army of 40K Salamanders on snow terrain and I want to have their typical green/black/gold scheme show that they are in a cold environment. Based on this video I think I need to highlight with that pale flesh tone and then shade with something more like the crimson you recommended. Is there anything else I should know about conveying a cold environment? Are there any nuances or difficulties that make it different then the warm highlights/cool shadows you’ve shown here? Thanks in advance!
It's tough, as salamanders are really all warm colors, so turning them cold you risk removing the look of the salamander from the scheme. That being said, yes you're on the right track with colors, you will just need to be very subtle to make sure you don't make them feel like a different chapter.
What are your thoughts on the contrast bottle shyish purple? Seems to be a great choice for this type of usage in recesses. However I have not used it in every possible situation so I am interested in your thoughts.
I have the whole line of contrast and that is one of three colors I will use. Really am enjoying the color.
Purple is a nice color for shadows, as I said in the video, it's red and blue, so it ends up being a sort of neutral shadow. I am not sure it's really dark enough for full contrast, something like Elendil Violet from Scale 75 is darker and would probably get you there all the way, but that color is certainly fine for many cases when you don't need to go too dark. Note, it will have challenges with Orange and yellow. The later color is tricky, because it can work, it's the complimentary color, but you have to use it very carefully or you will get a puse color.
Really useful stuff. Thanks again for doing the work for us!
My pleasure! :)
I tend to use stegadon scale green (gw)/dark sea blue (vallejo) as a shadow colour. Very nice green blue colour
Solid colors for sure.
Hi vince, great video thanks! My trouble is i often find inks to be very glossy and having glossy shadows and satin highlights annoy me. Do you have the same issue or just roll with it? Thanks a bunch!
Ultra Matte Varnish after I am done.
Amazing! I'd love to see a hobby cheating about painting shades of white armor (doing it for Stormcasts, not White Scars).
I'll add it to the list.
Great video Vince. I have been using Payne's Gray exactly this way for a while now, but I usually glaze it over my original color rather than mixing it in. Do you see any pros/cons to one way over the other?
Nothing wrong with a light glaze as opposed to mixing. Either is viable.
@@VinceVenturella Thanks! I figured as much, but I never know what I might be missing because, well...I'm missing it!
Thanks, Vince! Quick question about brushes and thinner paints/inks. I've heard that we shouldn't use our nicer sable hair brushes for washes to avoid paint drying in the ferrule. But what about glazes and inks? I would assume they pose the same risk but is perhaps mitigated because applying a wash is more haphazard than applying glazes. What do you think? I might be overthinking brush care...
You just have to be using it in a controlled fashion, you aren't diving in like with a wash, so you're generally okay.
Burgundy and Deep Purple all the way for me! Thanks, Vince. I'll try and give that Payne's Grey more mileage, for a little change. Also, I assume it feels better to have a little bit of a different tone in the shadows when we can?
Yep, you're existing colors are great, the Payne's grey works wonderfully when you want those nice cold shadows.
This and the universal highlight video may be the two videos that the paint companies absolutely don't want people to see (who needs 15 shades of red when one and the universal highlight and shade will do?). Now to fiddle with varying shades of black and blue sitting on paint desk to hack a Paynes grey while local stores are in lockdown . . . (although methinks my Tamiya Rubber Black is already almost there)
Yeah, if you see something called Rubber or Rubber black or Dark Rubber, that is almost always blue/black.
A great tip that really made the hobby easier for me! Many thanks for it. I currently use "Liquitex Muted Grey" instead of "FW Paynes Grey", because for known reasons "FW Paynes Grey" is not available here.
Have you tried "Liquitex Transparent Raw Umber"? Also a very versatile usable ink.
Greetings! :)
Yeah, the raw umber is really useful for sure, I have several different browns I love. :)
I stumbled upon this myself by using GW's Contrast: Basilicanum Grey. I suspect it's just Payne's Grey in their contrast medium.
Makes sense.
awww yeah...nice one
Thanks man. :)
Newbie question, but would be Payne's Grey work good to shade vehicles base coated metallic, such as 40k dreadnoughts in my case? Sort of a "reverse zenithal" process?
100%
Have you tried Vallejo Game Wash - Pale Grey? It's basically Payne's Grey made into a wash.
Yep, in the end, it just didn't have the intensity or the same blue tone.
Great video once again! Thanks.
How were you mixing it in this video? Looks like you were making a bit of a strong glaze? Or a thicker wash type consistency? The blend and shadow looked so amazing for such quick single wet coat.
Thicker glaze, but I am wicking off the excess liquid, still a glaze, not a wash.
@@VinceVenturella thanks! very useful by the looks of it. I always feel like I'm painting too thin because "thin you're paints" gets hammered into you. I should try slightly thicker glazes.
Another amazing video Vince! One question , in case of Paynes grey´s , do i need to have it as an ink? Or if lets say i find it on acrylic, will it work the same? Or its better as an ink? Thanks!!
Any Payne's Grey can work, I just think the ink is easiest being naturally transparent.
Thanks a lot Vincent. I guess this works in the same way with oils paints right? I just bought a tube of Paynes grey. Thanks!
I was thinking the same thing mate. @Mike R's comment was encouraging - "Payne's Grey was actually invented by William Payne for this very purpose. He discouraged the use of black in canvas painting, a dark grey blue was proposed to replace it."
Yep, basically for the same purpose as the Payne's Grey works in the oil paints.
@@VinceVenturella Excellent! Thanks Vince. Just started using oils a month ago... I don't think I am going back to acrylics
Would you say this also applies to oil painting? Like would you encourage ending some/all oil palettes with Payne's gray too?
Yes indeed
The rare Reaper cameo!
Hahaha I thought the same thing. Color is color!
Awesome Vince, just happen to have that FW ink!
Excellent. :)
Couldn't find any Paynes Grey at my local hobby store :( But I found 20 parts Ultramarine to 1 part Carbon Black made a damn close match. =D
Yep, really, that blue-black is the key and you can always just mix your own.
So, how well would these work on metallics like shading metals? Or turning into a glaze?
Amazing in both cases. I use this all the time to shade metals, and it's wonderful as a soft glaze for lots of purposes. :)
Very nice. Daler should put you on the payroll with how much ink you sell for them. If this is a brand new idea, I get 10% finders fee.
I'll reach out and see what I can do. :)
I've been playing around with zenithal highlighting on my Space Wolves, and I had a question -- do you usually go for a solid color on the highest highlight, or is the speckle I've been getting more expected?
Going about things slightly differently in that I'm using three opaque colors (Citadel The Fang, Vallejo Mecha Blue Grey, Vallejo Game Wolf Grey) with the same theory of operation and it forms the primary color on the armor. Which on space marines is a lot.
imgur.com/a/xv2trkb pics for one of the models; I don't think the effect looks nearly as extreme in person though.
I'm definitely going for a tabletop quality edging towards display, not competition (these models are basically rescues as I rebase them from 25mm).
That is definitely more speckling than I would expect. We need to thin the paint way more and apply thinner more controlled layers.
@@VinceVenturella I have mostly only used the airbrush for basecoating up until now, I am looking forward to getting more practice with more detailed work.
Hello, how well would this work to try to make a shadow on white? If it works what sort of ratio would you do with pro acryl paints? Also if you where to shade your gold recipe would you use this, a brown or something else?
Many questions. 1) yes, it would work fine, you could mix it or glaze it, but you want very little of it. 2) there is no single mix, depends on the shadows tones you want. 3) you could certainly use this, or something pushing slightly more brown with a little of this in, like Rhinox Hide.
Thanks Vince! God bless you 🙏🏽✝️☮️♾️☯️
Thank you, always happy to help.
Hello from the frozen Arctic north (Canada)! Big fan, first comment. Question: I have your signature series Pro Acryl Payne's Grey. Would you consider that as a universal shadow colour? How does it compare to the Daler Rowney ink? Thanking you in advance. I also want to see if you really do answer all comments!
I really do, I read and respond to everything (though sometimes it's just to heart if there is no question). In answer to your question, absolutely, I designed the color to be usable as a universal shadow for sure. :)
Am I correct in thinking that this is all wet blending? I will need to put down a fresh layer of the base color even if I have all the basing done so I can wet blend in the payne's grey layer?
This happened to be, but there is nothing required about that, that was just for the speed with the video, you could do this with wet blending, layering, glazing, anything, it's just that the color works, technique is independent based on goals. :)
@@VinceVenturella Thanks, Vince. I didn't want to go through the hassle of adding another layer to models I've already painted and have just been waiting to shade/highlight. I've watched both you videos on those subjects and ordered the appropriate supplies. The Payne's arrived today and AK flesh tone is still on the way. Thanks again.
Vince, The Reaper Gothic Crimson 09686. Is that a limited color? Can not seem to find it.
I am honestly not sure, I got it a while ago, it was at a con and it was in their rack, I didn't think it was limited in any way.
There it is! Been excited for this since I saw the hints about it.
I'm legitimately surprised hull red didn't make a small appearance even though Payne's is king lol.
Happy to help as always. :)
Awesome tip once more! Can we achieve the same results using a black ink?
It doesn't work as well, basically, because black alone just subtracts tone. The advantage here is the blue tone in payne's grey. That's what adds the tone that makes it more visually interesting and helps it to work with all of the colors.
So you can, it just doesn't work as well.
Notice you used a natural hair brush with the inks . Is it ok to use inks on natural hair brushes? I have heard they can be bad for them due to how easily they can flow back up the brush .
You want to be careful, it will ruin very nice brushes. But this was a slightly older brush that had already lost it's tip. :)
I should be able to mix Payne's Grey with Carbon Black ink (PBk7) and Phtalocyanine Blue green shade (PB15:3), both Liquitex artist inks. Those are the same pigments as the Payne's Grey, but maybe they used the red shade instead of the blue shade (only slightly different colors). Any tips for the ratio?
I couldn't say the ratio, but those would be the correct inks yes.
I'm having a hard time finding the Daler Rowney inks here in Denmark, but I do have some Liquitex inks that I like a lot, including a black ink and a prussian blue ink. How would I go about mixing my own paynes grey? I'm not looking for an exact recipe, but merely a rough guideline. Is it 50/50 black and blue or something else? I've never seen how the color actually looks :)
Yeah, liquitex is fine and 50/50 is a good starting point, might need a little more black.
@@VinceVenturella thx Vince! That sounds great. Can't wait to try it out. Is there a way to know I've hit the color somewhat, or maybe a video where you show the color in some way?
@@duskern It's sort of an eyeball thing, but it doesn't need to be exact.
Love Payne’s Gray! Also the color “Blue-Black” from ProAcryl is very close to Payne’s Gray. Maybe a bit higher on the value scale.
Yeah, it's great, a little brighter, but it's really nice as well.
I have the whole set of Ghost Tints, could I use some of the dark blues/blacks in that line similarly to how you are using Paynes Grey?
You could certainly mix some of the blue and black to get a nice tone matching this for similar purposes yes.
@@VinceVenturella Thanks!
I have the Vallejo ink set. Can I make a paynes grey with the black and a bit of the blue?
Sure could.
@@VinceVenturella ok I will try tonight 👍
FW ink is very hard to get in Brazil, fhowever liquitex is not. Is it possible to mix liquitex ink and get a similar cooor to Paynes grey?
Should be no issue at all IMO. Liquitex inks perform more or less the same as the Dawler Rowney FW line.
Yep, Liquitex should be a fine substitue. Vallejo also makes a line of artist inks that will work.
@@VinceVenturella Do you know the name of the Liquitex version? They don't have a payne's grey
@@RuneGamborg So I looked, I had assumed that Liquitex and AV would have a similar version, but they don't seem to have a payne's grey. It seems that Daler Rowney is the only one with the ink already made. You could always get black and blue and mix some of your own.
@@VinceVenturella Thanks for checking it out. I will look around
Great vid. Thx
Thank you, happy to help. :)
Great stuff as usual friend 👏 👍
Thank you 👍
Vince, that sticker, is that from Gilmore Girls?
Get Ready & Kick up a rumpus.
I just went and bought a bottle but I just looked and I ended up with Lamp Black instead of Payne's Gray. I haven't opened it, should I return it?
I wouldn't, or just ask for a replacement. You new know when you a color might come in handy lol
That black can also be handy, but it's not a substitue. payne's is softer and has that all important blue tone.
Can you dilute the ink and spay it through an airbrush for panel lines or hard edges shading on vehicles?
They do really really well in an airbrush but I'm not sure they would be very good for panel lining. Pin washing with oils is the cheat for that.
100%, works amazing for that purpose.
Been looking forward to this one and even went and tried exploring for one. I didn't find it, but did discover darker complimentary colours as shadows works too.
I'll be trying this next.
Thanks Vince, you're helping me think about, learn, and explore, this amazing hobby!
Happy to help. :)
me in 2023 watching this painting with vince's MH paynes gray
Fantastic, the circle is now complete.
Haha love it!
You rock!
Thanks!
Hi Vince, thanks for the excellent content, as usual. But.... May I say that I really think your videos would be greatly enhanced by some better lighting. I find myself just listening for the most part.
I'll see what I can do.
@@VinceVenturella Thank you sir. I'll keep watching regardless.
Have you changed something about your recording set up? Your voice sounds lower, more even, smoother, and more processed.
Yep, changed the way I record audio, glad it's working. :)
Nice!
Thanks!
It's so infuriating that this is the ONLY color I can't get off of Amazon (and I also don't have a local store that has Daler Rowney inks) in Austria.
Not even overexaggerating, there is a prime seller with 30 colors, but this is not one of them.
Update: I was able to find an arts seller and ordered it, though I hate it when I pay more shipping than the article itself costs
It's a shame but it's really worth it. :)
👍🏻👍🏻
:)