As bad as Beth’s death was, the cast really brought their A-game for their reaction. Stuff like Carol crying as she gets Daryl to lower his gun, Tyreese looking like he can barely breathe, the other group members who didn’t even know Beth like Rosita looking horrified. And of course Maggie falling to absolute pieces, and Michonne reacting in pure horror and shame since she was the one who told Maggie Beth was alive. This cast could make even the worst of the show work on SOME level. Props to them.
Beth's death was a waste. Essentially because she died defending Noah, who died just a few episodes later. Both of them could have better stories going forward. Shame!
Noah death angered me, yes, he was killed off probably to show off how much of a coward Nicholas was, but man, technically speaking both Beth and Tyreese died so Noah could deal with his past and reach Alexandria. His death really pissed me off, even if they were trying to make a point.
Then Glenn saved the guy who got him killed just so both would die.... episodes apart. Then Carl dies saving the guy in the woods just so he can die. 😂😂.
@@lloydlejack-official And Noah was literally JUST given the job of documenting Alexandria's history at the beginning of his death episode. Like WTF type of emotional manipulation was that 😭
To me, the dumbest thing about this episode isnt Beth, her wasted character, or choice to stab Dawn. In my opinion, the most ridiculous thing is Noah's stupid self being in the hospital to begin with. He knew good and well that he was being hunted, and that Dawn was vindictive, so WHY ON EARTH would he be apart of the standoff and trade instead of waiting outside?!
Honestly I just chalk it up to the writers not knowing how else to set up Beth's death and the easiest option was just to have Noah be there. You're 100% right though, there was no reason he couldn't have just waited outside. When I rewatched the episode I remember thinking about why Rick, Daryl or even Tyreese and/or Sasha didn't suggest he wait outside because by that point the whole group, Noah included, knew Dawn was looking for him. It's not like you can make up the excuse he was scared of being alone outside with walkers or the group thought he would run away because he could've just hid and Noah made it pretty clear he wanted to see Beth again so he would have no reason to run off. At the end of the day i'd just say it was sloppy writing.
When Beth said “I’m not like Carol, michonne, or Maggie. But I’ve made it,” I always related to Beth. If it came down to a zombie apocalypse, I wouldn’t show up like those 3. You don’t have to be a badass to be a survivor.
i think beth was always very relatable to me. if i was in the zombie apocalypse, i’d probably get really suicidal and mostly hang out in the background for a while. start off being one of the most cynical but realistic characters. once i’d find the courage to live, i probably wouldn’t be one of the most iconic or dangerous female members. i’d just be the girl who is unexpectedly resourceful and resilient, but mostly contributes to the heart of the group. eventually becoming one of the more hopeful members. i wonder if other low-key beth fans like her for similar reasons.
@@restingsadface Always loved Beth because she didn't have to be a super bad-ass female to still be strong in her own way. I think most women could relate to Beth. I named my cat after her lol!
Coda, once again you completely nailed it. I literally finished your words when you said “it’s just… ‘bad writing.” They could’ve taken Beth into a brilliant arc in Alexandria. I always thought that. It made no sense to kill her off. My mother loved this show but never read the comic. She was devastated over Beth’s death and she slowly lost interest from there. You’re 100% correct in your analysis, as usual. You’re awesome! Thank you for this!
Same here except it was my dad that thought it was BS then he stopped watching after Glenn he felt it was the last straw, then my mom lasted until Rick left the group. After that it didnt feel like I was watching the same show especially with the introduction of those 5 new members in season 9. Season 4,5,6 were the best ones ever made, sad that they lost all the potential they had, could've been among the best shows ever
@@cngotham4111 Beth’s character could’ve been expanded fs. Discussion of suicide and immaturity in post apocalyptic world would have been interested and then her arc would be complete once she matured and maybe helped someone else from committing suicide. Idk it was just unfinished development.
People always say that Glenn's death was "too far" and "served no purpose" But it sure as hell served more purpose than Beth and Tyreese's death. Two great characters shoved out of the show in a near snap of the finger, with very little rhyme or reason as to why it even had to happen in the first place. Glenn's death? A mixture of Rick's ego and Daryl's intervention during the lineup on Rosita's behalf. Consequences. Beth's death? She was angry at mean police lady and stabbed her with scissors when she was 0.01 seconds away from seeing her sister again. No consequences or lead up. Tyreese's death? Stealthy child walker who jumpscares the guy that was surrounded by a horde and fought through it unscathed. No consequences or lead up.
But both those things you said about Glenn are true, it was too far and it served no purpose. Comic accuracy NEVER mattered in the show and there were so many other way better choices than Glenn. They already have Glenn a fake out death just episodes ago. And Glenn dying for Daryl like come on you can SEE the plot Armor for some reason Daryl became such a cash cow that he had more plot armor than characters who LITERALLY NEEDED THE ARMOR *cough* Carl *cough* Rick. Still Beth and Tyreeses death are trash, 2 different fan favorite characters killed one after the other in bs ways. So in conclusion all 3 deaths are trash.
@@pintolerance785 You not liking Glenn's death, isn't the same as it being pointless. It's an amazing scene, the actors are knocking it out of the park, the special effects are amazing, everything is great, except for their silly decision to split it between season breaks. Beth and Tyrese on the other hand make me think 'what's the point of watching this show? is this just pointless nihilism?'
Ditto Andrea. She was one of the most capable fighters at the time and subverted a horde earlier just to get taken out by one zombie when she was tied up. But Glenn fought off a zombie while tied up earlier that season, despite not being half as much of a fighter as Andrea... Glenn's had ridiculous plot armour for seasons, and then he gets taken out in such a forced way. Andrea really struggled and worked up some good skills but she gets taken out in such a forced way too. They really don't care about these characters. That's the sad bit. You can tell who's dying and when just by the fact they have extra screentime. Aside from deaths they barely focus on the side characters. They really didn't gaf about them.
@@blinkusfishus2052 I don't need to argue anything about Glenn's death being bad, all you have to do is look at a chart for TWD viewing numbers. Oh man after Glenn's death what's this? What's this like going straight down? Oh man? What is that? Oh and also it sounds like you don't like Tyreese and Beth's death? The point of their deaths is nihilism, it's meant to be the lowest point the characters are at in the series so they kill off both the strongest guy and one of the most innocent characters. But I guess now that the death of the two have a point that means your opinion is bad.
@@pintolerance785 ratings don't equal quality, IMO the only mistake they made was splitting the scene between seasons, that'll kill your ratings. years later we can argue over whether Negan's intro was amazing or a low-point depending on your POV - passionate response either way, but very few recall the 'Beth/Atlanta' plotline with much fondness.
In my opinion, the best original storylines for the show are: -the Randall storyline. Not because I cared about Randall, but because we had some fantastic Dale and Shane moments that came from it. Basically extending Shane’s storyline in whole was the best change from the comics to the show. -the whole terminus storyline. Yes, it’s partially based on the hunters comic storyline, but it essentially doesn’t share many similarities with it until 5x2. I think the lead up to terminus and it’s eventual downfall made the cannibal storyline so much more important. - And my favorite tv show original storyline is the entire flu arc at the prison from season 4. I truely believe the best and only consecutively great episodes in a row are 4x1-4x8. The flu arc felt like nonstop action and hectic mayhem going on around the characters. We had the introductions to many interesting characters such as Bob, Lizzie, Mika, Tara, ect in these 8 episodes. Despite the action going on, we also still had breathing time to develop characters such as Tyreese, Sasha, Michonne, Daryl, Beth and Hershel. These episodes had the actual best songs to appear throughout the entire show. Specifically Serpants in Indifference, Oats In The Water in Internment and The Last Pale Light in the 6th episode (can’t remember the name of it right off hand.) on top of all of that, the flu storyline made the fall of the prison feel even more intense, as the characters had to flee while some of them were sick and hanging on by a thread. Such as those who rode off on the bus. I seriously adore the flu storyline. Wawa wee wow. That is all.
The flu arc was definitely such a great arc. Something you wouldn't think is such a big deal brought the group to their knees. It wasn't a big bad group or a horde of walkers it was just a flu strain. So good. Also I too loved the Shane and Randall arc. Randall was the final nail in the coffin where Shane fully alienates from the group and becomes an enemy. Though he was right.
Consider the fact that this was her arc. To be separated from the group, to be beaten and grow strong. To sacrifice her life & stand up to Dawn, allowing Noah to go home & for Grady Memorial to be free from Dawns corruption. The ONLY thing that ruined her arc was killing of Noah immediately after. If Noah had lived a few more seasons & perhaps one of the officers joined Ricks group it would have felt like a more proper arc even if she still died
They basically proved how Beth could be a really compelling and interesting character then said "nah" like I don't get how they "didn't know what to do with her character" like maybe what you've BEEN doing. Also to this day I have zero idea what motivated Beth to stab Dawn? Like yeah cause she was mad Dawn was taking Noah but like- ????? what was the end goal for her to die for Noah? how would she know it wouldn't just end in a shootout where tons of ppl from Rick's group die? it's so stupid and out of character
The Hospital Arc was pretty cool… until Beth died. That was the one decision that ruined that arc. The whole point is for Beth to become a ruthless character going forward but her death just scraped all of that set up.
She was set up to have an important role in S6, but they decided to replace her with Morgan instead. Everything Morgan did in S6 made more sense for Beth.
@@queenobamaii3736how did Morgan’s role make more sense for Beth when Morgan in that season challenged ricks way of thinking and the only one to challenge rick like that is someone who’s been down that path someone who’s on ricks level. You saying Beth is that cmon now give me a break 😂
I honestly didn’t think it was a good idea to kill off Beth after giving her an arc. What was the point. Why make us think she is going to evolve and grow on the show. I agree with you. The writing just didn’t add up.
It was the culmination of Beth’s character since the farm. In a way, Beth is a parallel to Carol. Beth wasn’t cut out for this world, neither was Carol at first. Beth’s death is a statement that even if you aren’t strong or cunning or resourceful you can still stand up for your beliefs, which is something Beth never did. Dawn didn’t even mean to kill Beth, it was just muscle memory, instinct. That’s something Beth didn’t have. Carol has that in droves, because she wanted to learn how to survive and thrive, whereas Beth did not. (as evidenced by her disgust at eating the snake Daryl killed for them to eat) Beth was a child and didn’t deserve her fate, but Beth stood up for what she believed in, without the skills to do so, and suffered the consequences.
It's not a bad idea in and of itself. To kill a character off before their arc finishes is fine in my opinion. However, the execution of the way Beth died, the leadup, it was all purely for ahock value. It didn’t push home the idea that "anyone can die at any moment, even before redemption or their arc finishes." It just pushed the idea that all the characters mean nothing. The showrunners don't care about writing a true tragedy, they only care about shock value. And the fans had felt that was the way the show was going as early as season 3. It's fine in glimpses, but when it happens every premiere, mid season finale, and finale, it becomes predictable and boring.
@animegopher maybe. I still look back on TWD as one of the best shoes ever made. As well as Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones. A couple common things among all these titles is being some of the biggest shows in history and having extreme criticism from people that seem to think they could've wrote an even better show than the best shows we've ever had
@RandoManFPV Well, Breaking Bad didn't have too many mainstream criticisms, if any at all. That show was amazing from start to finish. And TWD was objectively great up until S5. And I never watched Game of Thrones, but from what I hear, the OBJECTIVE sentiment is the show REALLY went downhill after they caught up to the books and decided to write their own show afterwards. The ending to Game of Thrones is always amongst the most disappointing endings in cinema history whenever people talk about that sort of thing. However, when it comes to TWD, they lost what made the earlier seasons so good. There were glimpses of great episodes, even after season 6, but never the consistently great episodes we saw all the way up till around S4-ish. The writing became very lazy. It was about shocking the audience and doing constant cliffhangers to make sure the audience would tune in next week. It wasn't about writing a good story and writing good characters. Which is why the later seasons are really bad imo. They killed off all the great characters from the first few seasons... Which is fine... But they didn't replace them with compelling characters. The most compelling character was Negan, and that was almost completely because Jeffrey Dean Morgan was acting his ass off. Lol. Also, the sentiment your sharing is along the lines of "writing is hard, and all these people think they could do it better." That's not the case. We just don't like what we were receiving. And audiences are allowed to dislike things. Lol. We know what we like and what we don't. We don't like uninteresting characters replacing great ones. We don't like shock value just for the sake of shock value. We like good stories with good characters. And in TWD, we weren't receiving either after about s6. And once Glenn died, that was the final straw for about 60% of the viewerbase. And then once Carl died... That was it for another 20%.
I agree I grew attached to Noah he became my favorite character because he seems like a character I could relate to if I was in the zombie apocalypse I saw me in the character it was sad that his arc & his storyline was short lived :( Plus I’m a fan of the actor glad he is getting his flowers (recognition he deserves) finally getting more roles because I love Abbott elementary and his other roles Because I loved let it shine & everybody hates Chris growing up
@@primenationgamer5710For real. I thought for a time when he was at Alexandria, he was gonna be future of the show learning to become an architect and all. Sadly I quickly learned (and should’ve done before) was that as a character was about to die in twd, the show accelerates their character arc.
To me Dawn shooting Beth felt like an accident, like she genuinely didn’t mean to kill her and it was simply a kneejerk reaction to being stabbed. I really liked her as an antagonist as imo she showed how endless, despicable compromises could end up compromising one’s leadership and the group’s dynamic. It was a unique storyline in some ways, and I too wish they had taken it further.
I kinda wished they would have done more with the Remnants of the Atlanta Police Department. I mean, it was one of the rare factions that survived a meeting with the Ricktatorship and the only thing we know about them, is, that they seem to be all dead. Like you said they could have joined against the Saviours. Maybe they could have had stumbled upon the Alexandria Safe Zone after they had to abandon the Hospital or had some sort of contact. In that way those remaining Hospital Staff and Police Officers could have still have an role.
I actually loved the beginning. After Rick ran down the cop, the cop asks for help, telling Rick to take him to the hospital because his back was broken, and Rick coldly replies: "We can't go back, Bob." This is an exact word for word statement that Gareth uttered to Bob Stookey at Terminus when Bob said Eugene knows how to cure the virus. This underlined a very hopeless feeling for the survivors, like they were all too far gone. Then Officer Bob Larson says that "You'll die out here", to which Rick shoots him in the head, then says: "Shut up." Kinda nailing the point home that perhaps Rick and the group are too far gone. Roll intro. Feral Rick at his peak.
Been on this wave for YEARS. Literally since the episode aired. I remember as a fucking 14 year old thinking to myself leading up to this episode “damn they’re developing Beth a lot and are even going far enough to give her solo episodes” I have a feeling this is because they feel they need a dramatic death for the mid season but I really hope it’s not because that’s such bad writing all of this would be for nothing and I’d be very disappointed in my favorite show. Unfortunately I was right and this was the first time I was significantly let down by the walking dead. Imagine 511 “the distance” as the mid season finale the gates open to Alexandria cut to black. Perfect proper cliffhanger. This is also why I am SO strongly against the narrative that season 5 is the strongest season when 1/4 of it is dedicated to this hospital arc which is one of the worst and most inconsequential in the show. The good things this arc gave us: Noah tho shortly lived was great, fake out intro to tyreese episode was great, imagery of Daryl carrying Beth. But none of those things were worth the cost which in my eyes this was the moment gimples writing patterns were cemented as the new norm of the show that plagued it for the entirety of his run and only became more apparent in time.
My take on this was that if tyreese wouldn’t have tried to convince Rick that they should try to resolve the situation peacefully then they all would’ve probably lived. Nobody but Noah and Beth really knew what it was like in there and the fact Noah escaped and tyreese still pushed for a peaceful solution with that group (I’m pretty sure even knowing that he had to escape) instantly gave me doubts especially after encountering a group like the terminus people. That’s also essentially his path through be the good guy and nobody has to die but at the same time good guy choices don’t really help around bad guy leaders. I would’ve like Ricks plan to go through though because then you can have the fans asking themselves if they’re the villains here for what they did to the people or are Dawn and her people the villains for basically abducting Beth and Carol and pretty much enslaving Noah. It could’ve been the “Not tomorrow Yet” episode before the actual episode.
@@MrMNo13I hate to say but I agree .like I didn’t understand why he didn’t kill the cannibal.He was gonna eat you or eat Judith. I was happy with tyrese dying . He just died to soon. Comic Tyrese>>
@@MrMNo13People tend to love Tyreese because while he had glaring flaws, he was a genuinely good person who helped keep Judith alive for quite a bit of time. Without Tyreese, Judith likely dies as the kids who had her at the prison attack would have gotten her killed. He was her caregiver and Judith being dead may have broke Rick, especially once Carl died. Also, when Carol told him she killed Karen, he handled it well and told her immediately he forgave her. Is he flawed? Of course, at times his peaceful approach got to be a bit much. Is he very different from his comic counterpart? Sure, Daryl took a lot of his comic qualities and he essentially is a completely different character. But at the end of the day, fans tend to like the guy because he always genuinely was a good man who didn’t give up despite being kicked down often. His death was poorly written, but it’s tough not to respect him for never losing who he was
While seasons 4 and 5 were really some of the best, you start to see the seeds of what eventually caused so many problems later on being laid, in this case only really doing the legwork to develop a character in the lead up to their death so it feels more impactful
4 and 5 had the highest highs but did so by sacrificing a well rounded quality to the show. Everything is written in patterns. Ever notice there’s a character introduced early each season that dies in episode 14 each season gimple was in charge of. Season 4: Lizzie Mika Season5: Noah season 6: Denise season 7: Benjamin
@@ryanjameshansen I feel like the writers, show runners and producers almost took the wrong lessons from when the show was at it's most popular, that people were watching for a game of thrones esc nobody's safe show so that when the big mid season breaks and finales were happening they felt they needed to kill someone unexpectedly and to not adapt or adapt different source material to keep fans on the edge of their seat and keep watching.
@@ryanjameshansen exactly. It became so formulaic that you could easily tell who would live and who you didn't need to invest in because they were definitely going to die. And if someone who was in the background for a bunch of the season suddenly got brought to the forefront, and they weren't a main character, there was like an 80% chance that they or someone around them was going to die.
Imo they wasted Beths character. I absolutely could see her go through a Maggie Arc where she starts out as a dainty little farm girl but is forced to grow up and turn into a badass, in the way they tried doing with Carl. The firing of Darabont and its consequences has been a disaster to the human race lmao
Beth was not my favorite character, but I would've loved to have seen an arc for Beth of her progressing into a total badass. That would've been an amazing transition, and she could've become one of my favorites with that arc.
@@kimberlywilmoth9184exactlyyyy. She definitely wasn't my favorite character, but I did really enjoy her. I was so excited to see Beths arc after her and Daryl got separated. I found a lot of the hospital story really boring ngl, but I loved Beth all throughout it. And I would've loved to see her become something so much bigger. She had the potential to be one of the best characters on the show imo, and they just completely threw her away. Shit still upsets and confuses me
I can’t be the only one who disliked the seasons Darabont did. Season 1 and 2 are my least favorite seasons. I think the shows quality picked up immensely after he was fired.
Its more crazy that rick and daryl held back and didnt fire. I believe that after beth being shot, rick and daryl wouldve lit up that whole hallway. Beths life mattered more than this.
I remember that the official marketing team for the show made a huge mistake by posting on fb a photo of Daryl caring dead Beth immediately after the episode end, even though half the world still haven't seen the episode. It pissed a lot of people off and showed that was really mostly for the shock value.
im glad u made a video on this episode. i dont know why, but beth is one of my favourite characters in the entire 11 seasons of twd and her death absolutely devastaded me. if youd ask me which death hit me the most, i would say beth as the first thing that comes to mind and then would have to think what other deaths hurt so badly as this one. maybe its the fact im the same age as she was when she died, so its easy for me to relate to her in the apocalypse as a teenager who didnt even got the chance to start living their life to the fullest. even now watching the final scene of her just gives me chills and makes me sad instantly
I saw an interview with Emily Kinney after "Coda," and she said that Gimple told her that he had decided to kill Beth from season 4. If you look back at the episodes that featured Beth in season 4, you can see a lot of foreshadowing. Nevertheless, I've always wondered why he made that decision. The episodes definitely give Emily as an actress a lot to chew on. Beth in many ways was a foil for her sister Maggie. Where Maggie was straightforward and more outwardly courageous, Beth seemed more sheltered and gentle. Nevertheless, she could be every bit as strong willed as her sister, and this trait came to the forefront in her arc after the prison fell. She has no problem pushing Daryl out of his comfort zone, whether it is to continue looking for their family or to find a way to grieve their losses and let go of the past. She continued to believe that there were good people in an increasingly brutal world, a sign of incredible resilience and mental strength. Norman Reedus characterized Beth as Daryl's "light in the darkness." That's a huge compliment, particularly for a character who holds most people at arm's length. I do think that the path the writers had seemingly set Beth upon had enormous growth potential. There are a lot of things that all the characters could have done differently, including Rick, that could have led the episode to a different conclusion. I really can't find a justification for the Grady arc at all, considering the fate of Noah before the season's end. I do think that Beth's death, along with the false promise of the Terminus arc and the utter heartbreak of Tyreese's death, put the entire season 5 group in a desperate place. Beth's death has a hardening effect on Daryl, Carol, Maggie, and Rick that continues to play out over the years. Nevertheless, if that was Gimple's goal, I think there were better ways to accomplish it.
I remembered when I first watched the episode “Slabtown” and had so many predictions about Beth’s character arc. In the next few episodes, I was lingered with the possibility that Beth may become the next villain, which would have been interesting - which is something similar to what was mentioned about Beth’s possible potential midway through the video. As a whole, I really liked that storyline, but Beth’s death left me very unsatisfied - she even became one of my favorite characters. But who knows what could’ve happened, it’s all speculations and wishes at this point. Maybe one day, we will get a “What If” scenario of Beth’s storyline.
I agree 100%. It's rarely talked about, because Glenn's death hit people so hard, but Beth's death was definitely the first one that confused and pissed me off. Especially the way they did it at the last second, after building up the relationships between Daryl & Beth and Noah & Beth just right before that. It all felt like wasted potential for a plotline that could've been really entertaining and turned Beth into a more interesting character to watch, as I found her view on the world intriguing in itself.
Couldn't they have just killed Noah off at the hospital, instead of Beth? That would've also been a shocking death because he had escaped, due to Beth's help. Besides, he died like 5 episodes later.
Writers probably thought it would be more shocking to build up Beth and then pull the rug out from under the viewer. They also could have killed Tyreese because he was killed off in the episode directly after and left Noah to grow from it.
A looming unfinished story at grady would have fit nicely. Beth always wanting to go back would be an interesting story piece. And it would have given a way that whichever actors wanted a break could "go" on this mission off screen and then comeback with a recap a couple seasons later. Rick/Michonne/carl all could have gone and returned when their actors wanted to be back on the show and it would jave been better than their generic exits
You might actually be onto something here, like what if the group went through with Dawn's demand and exchanged Noah for Beth. Then they all leave for the road like how it played out in the show only with Beth feeling horrible after leaving him there. Then after a while (not exactly sure when, it could be slotted into the show) Beth insists they have to go back and save him, with maybe Daryl backing her up on it. Could've been a really cool thing if it was in the show.
Great episode even with the pointless death i liked it a lot, also this is the first time i notice Rick glancing at officer Bobs photo of he and his son in the police cruiser just before running him down. Somehow that just multiplies the coldness tenfold
I hate how her death didn't serve any purpose it felt like it was there just to remind us anyone can die i wish she lived and died a later season cause i really wanted to see more of her but then she just died
i remember telling myself when this episode first aired that beth just got an episode all to herself, it was so stupid to kill her off when her character was just getting interesting
I wouldn’t call it disappointing but underwhelming, the bit with Beth made me feel the most sad to a character for years and I would say it opens up the Alexandria ark really well imo seeing the group turn feral before discovering it but everything else is just you can kinda tell what’s going to happen.
I think in a lot of ways the dwight arrow to the eye might have been a fitting death for beth. I could definitely see her out on the road yelling at daryl and rosita to get their crap together.
I believe Tyreese’s death meant something, and it served a purpose. Especially with how low the group get on the road to Alexandria, and how dark they become during the lead up to Negan’s intro
I agree. Tyreese's death was one more blow to the group already reeling from Beth being killed. The episode following Tyreese's death is one of my favorites. I felt like they had utterly lost hope as a group and I could really empathize.
I definitely think Beth’s death is wasted potential. I don’t think she would’ve or even should’ve lived more than another season or season and a half but I do think she should’ve died before Glenn did however I think there was more story to tell with Beth. Her and Noah felt unfinished and I still felt like she had some room to grow. It feels like she helped spark the mini depression arc of episodes 5x09 and 5x10 but that wasn’t enough justification for her death imo, she definitely had a greater purpose on the show that wasn’t fully explored. I think the proper time for her departure from the show should’ve been late season 5 or early season 6. I think the show escape the no way out era without enough carnage, Beth could’ve been one of the big losses which would’ve given her another 8-16 episodes to develop and solidify herself as a survivor
Beth was one of my favorite characters, especially because she was an original to the show. Her character could have developed into so much more, especially with how she managed to connect with Daryl.
Beth had SO much opportunity. I personally think she should've been one of the pike deaths in season 9 or maybe live on further. Like Typewriter said, maybe giving her an arc of coming back to the hospital to liberate it would've been a good arc. I also think that she could've stepped up to lead hilltop in Maggie's absence and could've been a great character to bounce off of for Enid. Also, keeping her and Daryl's dynamic around would've been great to see. I watched the whole show (almost) around the start of this year from binging it, not on television like a lot of people did, but via netflix. I watched it all until around mid season 10. I got very disinterested. Daryl and Carol's plotlines seemed very boring and it felt like they were the only two characters that got major screentime anymore. The only character I really cared to see was Connie. Don't get me wrong, I grew a large fondness for Daryl and Carol, but at this point it felt like they were being shoved in my face all the time. If I would be able to change what happens here is what would happen. Season 5; Beth doesn't stab Dawn, but she has an arc regretting that she didn't. Maybe a late night conversation with Daryl she admits something like "I had the scissors right in my hand! I could've stabbed her and Noah would be safe." Somewhere from S5-7 she goes back with some of the group to help liberate it and get it back. Tyreese also doesn't randomly get killed in this alternate universe. Skip to season 6: Maybe Beth becomes a secondary medic for Alexandria. She and Noah start dating and form some sort of relationship maybe, idk. Noah becomes a replacement architect for the community after Reg dies and becomes an integral structural genius in strengthening the walls around Alexandria. Skip to season 7: Tyreese is killed at the lineup instead of Abraham, Glenn still dies here as normal. Beth and Noah would be present at the lineup too. Possibly Maggie and Beth have a conversation mirroring their conversation on suicide in season 2, except Maggie feels somewhat suicidal after her husband's death and Beth comforts her. I thiiink Sasha died this season I could be wrong but anyway now that Abraham is still alive in this AU, she doesn't kill herself here. Skip to season 9: Maybe instead of Henry dying, maybe Sasha takes his place. I think Siddiq dies here in the actual show, but since Beth has also been a medic for a while, she's there when Dante attempts to kill Siddiq. Beth is able to stop him. Boom. Now let's compare the cast of mains we have for s10-11 in this AU to the actual show: AU: Carol, Maggie (minor), Daryl, Eugene (I heard he plays a big role in s11), Connie (+ her group ig, tbh the rest aren't too interesting), Judith, Negan PLUS Siddiq, Abraham, Beth and Noah Show: Carol, Maggie (minor), Daryl, Eugene (I heard he plays a big role in s11), Connie (+ her group ig, tbh the rest aren't too interesting), Judith, Negan
That is such an amazing idea oml. It cleans up some issues later down in the show, leaves characters some of the viewers can actually care about and just makes for a better outcome overall. Read this in another comment but Beth deciding to go save Noah at the hospital also gives any actors who wanted a break an outing to because it could be handled off screen and then shown in later episodes as a flashback kind of thing (like when Daryl showed back up outside the church with Noah and we found out what happened to Carol). Great comment with really good ideas!!
Coda has my favourite opening, Rick chasing and killing that guy shows how brutal the world has made him. The trade and the is also a great scene showing how Rick's planning has got better.
TDogs death was the worst because for some reason they had a hard on for killing characters in pairs but tdogs death was overshadowed by loris death and didn’t seem to matter that much to anyone because of it
I'll never forget where I was when I watched this Episode. My older Brother and I would watch the Show religiously every week and we were both in tears with this Episode. R.I.P. Beth.
If the actress wanted out then okay im cool with that but if that wasn’t the case then they wasted our time and the actress’ time. Why build her character just to kill her off so pointlessly? Also that hospital storyline was sooo stupid.
She didn’t want out. In fact I remember her saying that they all found out about her death the day they got the script and filmed it less than a week later. It really was that they just needed a mid season finale death.
The "Cant go back, Bob" call-back line from Rick really gives you goosebumps because it shows how much Rick learns from enemies and how they shape him into a survivor first and leader second Also, since we're on a season 5 streak, I think you should make a video discussing the episode where the lie Eugene made gave Abraham false hope: "Self Help"
This episode and the one after were the biggest kickers in the entire series for me. One massive death per episode right after another. That’s epic. The tension in the hospital, Rick starting to become ruthless, the buildup to the exchange at the end. This and the episode after are some of the most shocking & greatest moments in the entire series for me. Such kickers
When watching this for the first time starting in S4 I was intrigued of what happened to Beth. Did she drive away in the Cross car or did someone grab her? I just never knew. It started off hot with mystery and when it picked up in s5 I was excited but like u said I felt the plot of the cops/hospital arc could've been better. So killing off Beth was a huge mistake. Like u said her plot could've expanded larger. This also goes for characters like Tyreese and Noah. Some shock value deaths that never hit the mark and was overall disappointed in Beth's death as this was a wasted arc in the show. Again the potential was there for something bigger but this was more of a "let's stop here" before we hit Alexandria. RIP Beth
I've always disliked this storyline but never had any idea of how it could've been done better until now. Your idea of saving Beth but losing Noah, and Beth eventually leading the gang to go back for him would've been the perfect route for this storyline to go. I could even see it working as a single storyline in season 5. Cut out a lot of the fluff at the hospital, have the gang rescue Beth earlier, then have the return to the hospital be the mid season finale. This would also fix the issue is the lack of connection between the rest of the gang and the hospital, since they'd have been there before. Particularly the aspect of Rick's ideals conflicting with his fellow cops'. Honestly could've fixed everything wrong with this storyline with this one change
I do agree that Beth could have had a longer arc and it would have been good for her to be in the show for longer. I haven't watched the video (yet, busy at the moment) but here is my reasoning to why Beth's death wasn't pointless. 1. Impact on Daryl. Daryl had grown close to Beth, trusting her and opening up but eventually losing her. This is something that keeps happening to him, e.g. Merle, Rick, and not as much Carl, Glenn. This prompts self reflection for Daryl, making him question his ability to question the ones he cares about (similar thing happened in season 2 with Sofia), this leads to character growth. 2.Reinforces unpredictable nature of TWD. The unpredictable nature of TWD in my opinion adds to the realism (even though it's about dead people walking), her death serves as a reminder that no one is safe and they can die at anytime. 3. Leads to shifts in the groups motivation, decisions and alliances. This further progresses the plot. 4. Changes the group dynamic, it creates tension and emotional struggle. This shows the way different people respond to respond to tragedy. 5. I find Beth's death quite symbolic. She was the embodiment of innocence and hope for a better world. It shows that in this world even the brightest light can be extinguished. I could probably think of more but those are my reasons.
Disappointing is the perfect word for this episode. I was so hyped coming to this episode. Also I started to like Beth more as a character but then the writers straight up kill her 😭
I loved beth and her death was heart breaking. I remember back at the time alot of people were making theories of "Beths not dead, the bullet went through her head and didnt hit brain" "Beth is alive and leader of the wolves" "They didnt did a funeral/bury beth so she must be alive" All those things just to keep hope alive. Ah poor beth.. as for the jesus death, his actor said he was bored of playing the character and wanted to go, so cant really fault that. Though i suppose they could have made him dissapear, captured by crm or something but yeah
This hospital arc does an amazing job of depicting what terrible people some police officers are. Not all of them, but there are definitely a large percentage of them out there that would be just like the officers at the hospital. Often time cops think they are above the law and because of their position can do whatever they want. Also the fact many of them became cops because they were picked on as kids so they become cops to enforce their power over people. Cops are the single group that display "little man" syndrome more than any other group of people there is. This episode just does a marvelous job of exploring these facts.
For me, Beth and Tyrease’s deaths showed how bad things were getting for the group, and being out how amazing Alexandria was for the characters. They were at their all time low before arriving at Alexandria: they had no home, no resources for survival, and had just lost two people in their family basically back to back. Alexandria was the first good thing to happen to them in a very long time, and that needed to be very clear to everyone
The thing a lot of people missed when it came to coda, especially if you watched it on tv, was the post credit scene with Morgan at the church where ricks group met father Gabriel foreshadowing his return at the end of the season
I am also fine with Beth's death. I liked the character but she was always a side character to Maggie and part of Maggie's story arch is losing everything.
I've always thought of Dawn being more of a miss lead leader than a villian and Beth's death was not needed, it also annoys me how she died to save Noah only to have him killed off not long after
I personally think it would’ve been better for when dawn says that she wants Noah back, Beth steps in knowing that Noah staying there is worse than him leaving and chooses to stay with dawn and the rest of the police officers to make this group better, closer and more caring rather than forced to work like prisoners and jailers, the whole idea of Beth stepping up as a leader role under dawns wing for a separate group than ricks would’ve been great. Beth showing the group how to care for one another after she had her whole arc and outing about not caring with Daryl would’ve probably been better. The group possibly could’ve been brought back at a later season for something as well
that's because by now they're pros. a lot of the deaths are when they forget and get too comfortable or against other people. walkers aren't the biggest threat anymore.
Season 9 killed off so many characters it wasn’t funny. Season 10 and 11 didn’t because people complained about it. People said they needed to stop writing off so many characters. They stopped writing off characters and then people complained that they weren’t writing enough people off smh
Goobers like you would complain if people die or if people don't die. I complain when the death derails the story and serves no greater purpose. We are not the same.
They killed Tyrese in the next episode, I couldn’t figure out why kill Beth to then end him too, his was a mistake that made sense, he had trauma that caused him to hesitate leading to his death. Beth could have lived in and they could have just ended tyrese. I see Beth dying over Noah to be better as well. If they waited to kill Beth for when they killed noah it would have been more impactful. We didn’t know Noah enough to really care for him as a character so his death was sad but pointless and if they had built Beth in that time to an even better character her dying because if Nicholas would he even more impactful than noah dying, then he could have stayed and been good character for the longer haul.
When Rick runs bob over and bob asked to go back, Rick says “can’t go back bob” which is what Gareth said to bob in no sanctuary and you see Rick pause after saying it
The only time in the show that I can remember when a zombie showed up inconveniently or without the plot needing it is when the guy who trained Morgan died
I actually think how Beth reacted made sense, she really cared for Noah and she was only 18 so she still doesn't know how to fully control her emotions, specifically anger. Do I think she should have died? No, Beth was one of my favorite characters and it devastated me when she did die.
beth's death was a major mistake. if she had survived for longer, not necessarily until the end - she would've become a nurturing figure to judith just like how lori was with beth during season 2 - 3, keeping lori's memory alive and not making us forget what had occurred in earlier seasons.
I stopped watching TWD after Beth's death, and finally after all these years finished the show (and rewatched what I already viewed live) this year. You nailed it, Coda is probably the worst episode writing/story wise.
Dude I will never understand how dawn Quickdrawed Beth. If you watch the scene before beth stabs dawn her gun I holstered and then as soon as she is stabbed she somehow kills Beth. I was so shocked and disappointed Beth died. And Even worse Beth had just about no reason to stab dawn who just helped Beth kill that one office in the elevator shaft
@linaskranauskas ig but dawn was the nicest to Beth but still a ass and like I said they helped each other to kill the cop. So it should have been water under the bridge. But I understand she was mad about the Noah thing
@@KillaxCam11 she was mad about the Noah, but more importantly she understood dawn's evilness long time ago. she only helped with the cop because it was her survival instinct and because the cop was even worse. it's like Dwight throwing simon under the bus.
@linaskranauskas dawn wasn't evil she was just trying to hold everything together and yea she let the other officers do just about whatever without saying anything but she wasn't evil
Late to watching, and got to say I definitely respect your take on the episode. Just as you say the first 35 minutes are some of my favorite moments from the season. I agree the only “problem” I have with the episode is Beth’s death, yet I also see the light and reason for it. Beth’s character up until this point had been a victim of circumstance. She’s never been able to carve her own path or choices simply bc she didn’t have the will to. By the end of this arc and episode she absolutely does. She finally makes her choice to step up and “fight back” per say but as this world shows that not everything is as simple as it seems. Beth definitely wanted to kill Dawn but with little to no experience she of course doesn’t hit the sweet spot. Dawn retaliates off instinct. Yes it’s disappointing and while it would be cool to see where Beth could’ve went. I also just think it hammers home the point of the harshness of the world. Beth was never going to be a hardened survivor like the rest of the group. But they still were able to send her off In her own unique way. Yes she dies but she also goes getting to finally make her own choice in the world. It’s a bittersweet moment but one I actually tend to like. I genuinely think this episode is a top 10-15 episode. Beth’s arc ending abruptly was definitely a little questionable from a viewer standpoint but the rest of the episode was elite.
I always thought of Beth and Tryrese’s death were just a reminder that you never know when it’s your day in TDW world. As invincible as you or your group may seem, death is always looking over your shoulder
Would've been better if they kept Beth alive to be an agent for Rick to someday make Noah leave that place. On to season 7, Beth's storyline continues as she found out that Dawn has a past with Negan and is working with the saviors. It's Beth's role to take out Dawn.
I reaaaaallly wish the show stayed in the city more, season 1 in the city/outskirts was such a vibe... so when this hospital arc was going on i was kinda excited. This episode drained everything from me.
I hate how they would give characters loads of character development just to kill them off for shock factor, they did the same thing with Andrea in season 3 but Beth had potential to be the best written character in the show and they threw it away
Please cover the episode "One More." the episode where Gabriel and Aaron meet Mags and he forces them to do Russian Roulette. Such an underrated episode and the ending gives me goosebumps everytime...
I haven't seen a single person talking about this, but I just realized that the single quote in this entire franchise that I think about most to this day, actually comes from Dawn. "Some people just aren't made for this life, and that's okay. As long as they don't take advantage of the ones who are" Say what you want about everything else about Dawn, but this one very moment has given me multiple existential crises over the span of multiple years. That’s powerful.
Idk why but Beth reminds me of a silent hill character- anyway this episode isn't tbe best but I liked seeing how Rick deals with other groups now when it came to a situation like a member of the group being trapped within another group, like how in season 3 or 4 (can't remember which) when the governor had Glen and Maggie trapped. Its just kinda cool seeing how Rick deals with it now with more experience
Beth death it's like Sophia's, you know? The gang spent entire episodes looking for them only to realize they're dead o see them dying in front of the group.
Yeah it felt like Beth was just killed for shock value, plus Noah died a few episodes later without doing anything making her attempted sacrifice pointless. Beth attacking Dawn could’ve led to everybody getting killed in the face off. And it also helped regress Daryl into a moody hothead when he had developed into a capable leader and second in command by Season 3-4. He didn’t fully recover until Season 9 after Rick died.
You made too many valid points the episode was full of characters that could’ve been written a whole lot better it’s like they just wanted to shock us with these deaths
As bad as Beth’s death was, the cast really brought their A-game for their reaction. Stuff like Carol crying as she gets Daryl to lower his gun, Tyreese looking like he can barely breathe, the other group members who didn’t even know Beth like Rosita looking horrified. And of course Maggie falling to absolute pieces, and Michonne reacting in pure horror and shame since she was the one who told Maggie Beth was alive. This cast could make even the worst of the show work on SOME level. Props to them.
No idea what happened during Carl. Everyone seemed so unphased
Norman Reedus said that the two biggest losses in Daryl’s life were losing his brother Merle and losing Beth. 😭💔
Rick*
This must have been before season 9
Yea lol
So not Rick or Glenn lol
What about Rick
Beth's death was a waste. Essentially because she died defending Noah, who died just a few episodes later. Both of them could have better stories going forward. Shame!
Noah death angered me, yes, he was killed off probably to show off how much of a coward Nicholas was, but man, technically speaking both Beth and Tyreese died so Noah could deal with his past and reach Alexandria. His death really pissed me off, even if they were trying to make a point.
@lloydlejack-official I still say to this day Noah had THE worst death on TWD. Yes, both their deaths were a waste.
Then Glenn saved the guy who got him killed just so both would die.... episodes apart.
Then Carl dies saving the guy in the woods just so he can die. 😂😂.
Garbage writing, kill people for shock value cause “nobody safe! ooo!”
@@lloydlejack-official And Noah was literally JUST given the job of documenting Alexandria's history at the beginning of his death episode. Like WTF type of emotional manipulation was that 😭
To me, the dumbest thing about this episode isnt Beth, her wasted character, or choice to stab Dawn. In my opinion, the most ridiculous thing is Noah's stupid self being in the hospital to begin with. He knew good and well that he was being hunted, and that Dawn was vindictive, so WHY ON EARTH would he be apart of the standoff and trade instead of waiting outside?!
Honestly I just chalk it up to the writers not knowing how else to set up Beth's death and the easiest option was just to have Noah be there. You're 100% right though, there was no reason he couldn't have just waited outside. When I rewatched the episode I remember thinking about why Rick, Daryl or even Tyreese and/or Sasha didn't suggest he wait outside because by that point the whole group, Noah included, knew Dawn was looking for him. It's not like you can make up the excuse he was scared of being alone outside with walkers or the group thought he would run away because he could've just hid and Noah made it pretty clear he wanted to see Beth again so he would have no reason to run off. At the end of the day i'd just say it was sloppy writing.
Beth’s death was a classic Gimple moment
Sigh... Yeah.
For the worst
When Beth said “I’m not like Carol, michonne, or Maggie. But I’ve made it,” I always related to Beth. If it came down to a zombie apocalypse, I wouldn’t show up like those 3. You don’t have to be a badass to be a survivor.
i think beth was always very relatable to me. if i was in the zombie apocalypse, i’d probably get really suicidal and mostly hang out in the background for a while. start off being one of the most cynical but realistic characters. once i’d find the courage to live, i probably wouldn’t be one of the most iconic or dangerous female members. i’d just be the girl who is unexpectedly resourceful and resilient, but mostly contributes to the heart of the group. eventually becoming one of the more hopeful members. i wonder if other low-key beth fans like her for similar reasons.
@@restingsadface Always loved Beth because she didn't have to be a super bad-ass female to still be strong in her own way. I think most women could relate to Beth. I named my cat after her lol!
Coda, once again you completely nailed it. I literally finished your words when you said “it’s just… ‘bad writing.” They could’ve taken Beth into a brilliant arc in Alexandria. I always thought that. It made no sense to kill her off. My mother loved this show but never read the comic. She was devastated over Beth’s death and she slowly lost interest from there. You’re 100% correct in your analysis, as usual. You’re awesome! Thank you for this!
❤️❤️❤️
Same here except it was my dad that thought it was BS then he stopped watching after Glenn he felt it was the last straw, then my mom lasted until Rick left the group. After that it didnt feel like I was watching the same show especially with the introduction of those 5 new members in season 9. Season 4,5,6 were the best ones ever made, sad that they lost all the potential they had, could've been among the best shows ever
@@LoverIsaDayydon’t forget Season 3
@@LoverIsaDayyI mean she wasn't a really liked character so I don't think this was a bad episode.
@@cngotham4111 Beth’s character could’ve been expanded fs. Discussion of suicide and immaturity in post apocalyptic world would have been interested and then her arc would be complete once she matured and maybe helped someone else from committing suicide. Idk it was just unfinished development.
People always say that Glenn's death was "too far" and "served no purpose"
But it sure as hell served more purpose than Beth and Tyreese's death. Two great characters shoved out of the show in a near snap of the finger, with very little rhyme or reason as to why it even had to happen in the first place.
Glenn's death? A mixture of Rick's ego and Daryl's intervention during the lineup on Rosita's behalf. Consequences.
Beth's death? She was angry at mean police lady and stabbed her with scissors when she was 0.01 seconds away from seeing her sister again. No consequences or lead up.
Tyreese's death? Stealthy child walker who jumpscares the guy that was surrounded by a horde and fought through it unscathed. No consequences or lead up.
But both those things you said about Glenn are true, it was too far and it served no purpose. Comic accuracy NEVER mattered in the show and there were so many other way better choices than Glenn.
They already have Glenn a fake out death just episodes ago.
And Glenn dying for Daryl like come on you can SEE the plot Armor for some reason Daryl became such a cash cow that he had more plot armor than characters who LITERALLY NEEDED THE ARMOR *cough* Carl *cough* Rick.
Still Beth and Tyreeses death are trash, 2 different fan favorite characters killed one after the other in bs ways.
So in conclusion all 3 deaths are trash.
@@pintolerance785 You not liking Glenn's death, isn't the same as it being pointless. It's an amazing scene, the actors are knocking it out of the park, the special effects are amazing, everything is great, except for their silly decision to split it between season breaks. Beth and Tyrese on the other hand make me think 'what's the point of watching this show? is this just pointless nihilism?'
Ditto Andrea. She was one of the most capable fighters at the time and subverted a horde earlier just to get taken out by one zombie when she was tied up. But Glenn fought off a zombie while tied up earlier that season, despite not being half as much of a fighter as Andrea...
Glenn's had ridiculous plot armour for seasons, and then he gets taken out in such a forced way. Andrea really struggled and worked up some good skills but she gets taken out in such a forced way too.
They really don't care about these characters. That's the sad bit. You can tell who's dying and when just by the fact they have extra screentime. Aside from deaths they barely focus on the side characters. They really didn't gaf about them.
@@blinkusfishus2052 I don't need to argue anything about Glenn's death being bad, all you have to do is look at a chart for TWD viewing numbers. Oh man after Glenn's death what's this? What's this like going straight down? Oh man? What is that?
Oh and also it sounds like you don't like Tyreese and Beth's death? The point of their deaths is nihilism, it's meant to be the lowest point the characters are at in the series so they kill off both the strongest guy and one of the most innocent characters. But I guess now that the death of the two have a point that means your opinion is bad.
@@pintolerance785 ratings don't equal quality, IMO the only mistake they made was splitting the scene between seasons, that'll kill your ratings. years later we can argue over whether Negan's intro was amazing or a low-point depending on your POV - passionate response either way, but very few recall the 'Beth/Atlanta' plotline with much fondness.
Beth’s death is still one of the dumbest things I have ever seen in all of TV history.
I’d argue Carl’s death was dumber
They both are Carl's id say more cause he had way more potential
that and carls death
Y'all all beat me to it I was coming to say the same thing. Last episode I watched was Carl's death episode.
@@ahahah9550the way it was written was but I'd rather a character get bit than stab someone who's holding a gun
In my opinion, the best original storylines for the show are:
-the Randall storyline. Not because I cared about Randall, but because we had some fantastic Dale and Shane moments that came from it. Basically extending Shane’s storyline in whole was the best change from the comics to the show.
-the whole terminus storyline. Yes, it’s partially based on the hunters comic storyline, but it essentially doesn’t share many similarities with it until 5x2. I think the lead up to terminus and it’s eventual downfall made the cannibal storyline so much more important.
- And my favorite tv show original storyline is the entire flu arc at the prison from season 4. I truely believe the best and only consecutively great episodes in a row are 4x1-4x8. The flu arc felt like nonstop action and hectic mayhem going on around the characters. We had the introductions to many interesting characters such as Bob, Lizzie, Mika, Tara, ect in these 8 episodes. Despite the action going on, we also still had breathing time to develop characters such as Tyreese, Sasha, Michonne, Daryl, Beth and Hershel. These episodes had the actual best songs to appear throughout the entire show. Specifically Serpants in Indifference, Oats In The Water in Internment and The Last Pale Light in the 6th episode (can’t remember the name of it right off hand.) on top of all of that, the flu storyline made the fall of the prison feel even more intense, as the characters had to flee while some of them were sick and hanging on by a thread. Such as those who rode off on the bus. I seriously adore the flu storyline. Wawa wee wow. That is all.
The flu arc was definitely such a great arc. Something you wouldn't think is such a big deal brought the group to their knees. It wasn't a big bad group or a horde of walkers it was just a flu strain. So good.
Also I too loved the Shane and Randall arc. Randall was the final nail in the coffin where Shane fully alienates from the group and becomes an enemy. Though he was right.
Consider the fact that this was her arc. To be separated from the group, to be beaten and grow strong. To sacrifice her life & stand up to Dawn, allowing Noah to go home & for Grady Memorial to be free from Dawns corruption.
The ONLY thing that ruined her arc was killing of Noah immediately after. If Noah had lived a few more seasons & perhaps one of the officers joined Ricks group it would have felt like a more proper arc even if she still died
They basically proved how Beth could be a really compelling and interesting character then said "nah" like I don't get how they "didn't know what to do with her character" like maybe what you've BEEN doing. Also to this day I have zero idea what motivated Beth to stab Dawn? Like yeah cause she was mad Dawn was taking Noah but like- ????? what was the end goal for her to die for Noah? how would she know it wouldn't just end in a shootout where tons of ppl from Rick's group die? it's so stupid and out of character
She liberated the whole memorial by doing what she did. She stood up to dawn and stood her ground. I think she got a powerful ending.
The Hospital Arc was pretty cool… until Beth died. That was the one decision that ruined that arc. The whole point is for Beth to become a ruthless character going forward but her death just scraped all of that set up.
She was set up to have an important role in S6, but they decided to replace her with Morgan instead. Everything Morgan did in S6 made more sense for Beth.
@@queenobamaii3736 What a waste
@@queenobamaii3736how did Morgan’s role make more sense for Beth when Morgan in that season challenged ricks way of thinking and the only one to challenge rick like that is someone who’s been down that path someone who’s on ricks level. You saying Beth is that cmon now give me a break 😂
I honestly didn’t think it was a good idea to kill off Beth after giving her an arc. What was the point. Why make us think she is going to evolve and grow on the show. I agree with you. The writing just didn’t add up.
It was the culmination of Beth’s character since the farm. In a way, Beth is a parallel to Carol. Beth wasn’t cut out for this world, neither was Carol at first. Beth’s death is a statement that even if you aren’t strong or cunning or resourceful you can still stand up for your beliefs, which is something Beth never did. Dawn didn’t even mean to kill Beth, it was just muscle memory, instinct. That’s something Beth didn’t have. Carol has that in droves, because she wanted to learn how to survive and thrive, whereas Beth did not. (as evidenced by her disgust at eating the snake Daryl killed for them to eat) Beth was a child and didn’t deserve her fate, but Beth stood up for what she believed in, without the skills to do so, and suffered the consequences.
It's not a bad idea in and of itself. To kill a character off before their arc finishes is fine in my opinion. However, the execution of the way Beth died, the leadup, it was all purely for ahock value. It didn’t push home the idea that "anyone can die at any moment, even before redemption or their arc finishes." It just pushed the idea that all the characters mean nothing. The showrunners don't care about writing a true tragedy, they only care about shock value. And the fans had felt that was the way the show was going as early as season 3. It's fine in glimpses, but when it happens every premiere, mid season finale, and finale, it becomes predictable and boring.
Survive and become a badass
@animegopher maybe. I still look back on TWD as one of the best shoes ever made. As well as Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones.
A couple common things among all these titles is being some of the biggest shows in history and having extreme criticism from people that seem to think they could've wrote an even better show than the best shows we've ever had
@RandoManFPV Well, Breaking Bad didn't have too many mainstream criticisms, if any at all. That show was amazing from start to finish. And TWD was objectively great up until S5. And I never watched Game of Thrones, but from what I hear, the OBJECTIVE sentiment is the show REALLY went downhill after they caught up to the books and decided to write their own show afterwards. The ending to Game of Thrones is always amongst the most disappointing endings in cinema history whenever people talk about that sort of thing.
However, when it comes to TWD, they lost what made the earlier seasons so good. There were glimpses of great episodes, even after season 6, but never the consistently great episodes we saw all the way up till around S4-ish. The writing became very lazy. It was about shocking the audience and doing constant cliffhangers to make sure the audience would tune in next week. It wasn't about writing a good story and writing good characters. Which is why the later seasons are really bad imo. They killed off all the great characters from the first few seasons... Which is fine... But they didn't replace them with compelling characters. The most compelling character was Negan, and that was almost completely because Jeffrey Dean Morgan was acting his ass off. Lol.
Also, the sentiment your sharing is along the lines of "writing is hard, and all these people think they could do it better." That's not the case. We just don't like what we were receiving. And audiences are allowed to dislike things. Lol. We know what we like and what we don't. We don't like uninteresting characters replacing great ones. We don't like shock value just for the sake of shock value. We like good stories with good characters. And in TWD, we weren't receiving either after about s6. And once Glenn died, that was the final straw for about 60% of the viewerbase. And then once Carl died... That was it for another 20%.
Beth and Noah were very wasted, death, plot and character arc-wise.
I agree I grew attached to Noah he became my favorite character because he seems like a character I could relate to if I was in the zombie apocalypse I saw me in the character it was sad that his arc & his storyline was short lived :(
Plus I’m a fan of the actor glad he is getting his flowers (recognition he deserves) finally getting more roles because I love Abbott elementary and his other roles
Because I loved let it shine & everybody hates Chris growing up
@@primenationgamer5710For real. I thought for a time when he was at Alexandria, he was gonna be future of the show learning to become an architect and all. Sadly I quickly learned (and should’ve done before) was that as a character was about to die in twd, the show accelerates their character arc.
To me Dawn shooting Beth felt like an accident, like she genuinely didn’t mean to kill her and it was simply a kneejerk reaction to being stabbed.
I really liked her as an antagonist as imo she showed how endless, despicable compromises could end up compromising one’s leadership and the group’s dynamic. It was a unique storyline in some ways, and I too wish they had taken it further.
Coda has one of twd's most beautiful piano focused songs tho, which is just titled coda
I kinda wished they would have done more with the Remnants of the Atlanta Police Department. I mean, it was one of the rare factions that survived a meeting with the Ricktatorship and the only thing we know about them, is, that they seem to be all dead. Like you said they could have joined against the Saviours. Maybe they could have had stumbled upon the Alexandria Safe Zone after they had to abandon the Hospital or had some sort of contact. In that way those remaining Hospital Staff and Police Officers could have still have an role.
Yea the fact that we hear nothing about the police station proves that beth was literally killed in a bottle episode.
I assume they died. How they ran and reacted to things means they wouldn't survive long term. Abd I doubt rick ever wanted to go back to that place.
I actually loved the beginning. After Rick ran down the cop, the cop asks for help, telling Rick to take him to the hospital because his back was broken, and Rick coldly replies: "We can't go back, Bob." This is an exact word for word statement that Gareth uttered to Bob Stookey at Terminus when Bob said Eugene knows how to cure the virus. This underlined a very hopeless feeling for the survivors, like they were all too far gone. Then Officer Bob Larson says that "You'll die out here", to which Rick shoots him in the head, then says: "Shut up." Kinda nailing the point home that perhaps Rick and the group are too far gone. Roll intro. Feral Rick at his peak.
*cough cough* joe the claimer om nom nom *cough cough cough*
Agreed, the episode wasn’t ENTIRELY worthless
I rewatch this episode a lot just for that first scene. Freakin perfection dude.
I like to call it the Dark Rick era.
Been on this wave for YEARS. Literally since the episode aired. I remember as a fucking 14 year old thinking to myself leading up to this episode “damn they’re developing Beth a lot and are even going far enough to give her solo episodes” I have a feeling this is because they feel they need a dramatic death for the mid season but I really hope it’s not because that’s such bad writing all of this would be for nothing and I’d be very disappointed in my favorite show. Unfortunately I was right and this was the first time I was significantly let down by the walking dead. Imagine 511 “the distance” as the mid season finale the gates open to Alexandria cut to black. Perfect proper cliffhanger. This is also why I am SO strongly against the narrative that season 5 is the strongest season when 1/4 of it is dedicated to this hospital arc which is one of the worst and most inconsequential in the show. The good things this arc gave us: Noah tho shortly lived was great, fake out intro to tyreese episode was great, imagery of Daryl carrying Beth. But none of those things were worth the cost which in my eyes this was the moment gimples writing patterns were cemented as the new norm of the show that plagued it for the entirety of his run and only became more apparent in time.
Totally agree with everything you wrote, totally.
My take on this was that if tyreese wouldn’t have tried to convince Rick that they should try to resolve the situation peacefully then they all would’ve probably lived. Nobody but Noah and Beth really knew what it was like in there and the fact Noah escaped and tyreese still pushed for a peaceful solution with that group (I’m pretty sure even knowing that he had to escape) instantly gave me doubts especially after encountering a group like the terminus people. That’s also essentially his path through be the good guy and nobody has to die but at the same time good guy choices don’t really help around bad guy leaders. I would’ve like Ricks plan to go through though because then you can have the fans asking themselves if they’re the villains here for what they did to the people or are Dawn and her people the villains for basically abducting Beth and Carol and pretty much enslaving Noah. It could’ve been the “Not tomorrow Yet” episode before the actual episode.
Thank you!! I absolutely hated Tyreese. He was soft. Hated his arcs. Never understood the love for Tyreese.
I was so happy when his character died.
@@MrMNo13I hate to say but I agree .like I didn’t understand why he didn’t kill the cannibal.He was gonna eat you or eat Judith. I was happy with tyrese dying . He just died to soon. Comic Tyrese>>
@@MrMNo13People tend to love Tyreese because while he had glaring flaws, he was a genuinely good person who helped keep Judith alive for quite a bit of time. Without Tyreese, Judith likely dies as the kids who had her at the prison attack would have gotten her killed. He was her caregiver and Judith being dead may have broke Rick, especially once Carl died. Also, when Carol told him she killed Karen, he handled it well and told her immediately he forgave her. Is he flawed? Of course, at times his peaceful approach got to be a bit much. Is he very different from his comic counterpart? Sure, Daryl took a lot of his comic qualities and he essentially is a completely different character. But at the end of the day, fans tend to like the guy because he always genuinely was a good man who didn’t give up despite being kicked down often. His death was poorly written, but it’s tough not to respect him for never losing who he was
@@MrMNo13WHOA WHOA WHOA what is this mess I’m hearing
Oh yeah which is why Beth is one of tyreese’s ghosts which I love as a touch in the next episode.
While seasons 4 and 5 were really some of the best, you start to see the seeds of what eventually caused so many problems later on being laid, in this case only really doing the legwork to develop a character in the lead up to their death so it feels more impactful
4 and 5 had the highest highs but did so by sacrificing a well rounded quality to the show. Everything is written in patterns. Ever notice there’s a character introduced early each season that dies in episode 14 each season gimple was in charge of. Season 4: Lizzie Mika Season5: Noah season 6: Denise season 7: Benjamin
@@ryanjameshansen I feel like the writers, show runners and producers almost took the wrong lessons from when the show was at it's most popular, that people were watching for a game of thrones esc nobody's safe show so that when the big mid season breaks and finales were happening they felt they needed to kill someone unexpectedly and to not adapt or adapt different source material to keep fans on the edge of their seat and keep watching.
@@ryanjameshansen exactly. It became so formulaic that you could easily tell who would live and who you didn't need to invest in because they were definitely going to die.
And if someone who was in the background for a bunch of the season suddenly got brought to the forefront, and they weren't a main character, there was like an 80% chance that they or someone around them was going to die.
Imo they wasted Beths character. I absolutely could see her go through a Maggie Arc where she starts out as a dainty little farm girl but is forced to grow up and turn into a badass, in the way they tried doing with Carl.
The firing of Darabont and its consequences has been a disaster to the human race lmao
Beth was not my favorite character, but I would've loved to have seen an arc for Beth of her progressing into a total badass. That would've been an amazing transition, and she could've become one of my favorites with that arc.
@@kimberlywilmoth9184exactlyyyy. She definitely wasn't my favorite character, but I did really enjoy her. I was so excited to see Beths arc after her and Daryl got separated. I found a lot of the hospital story really boring ngl, but I loved Beth all throughout it. And I would've loved to see her become something so much bigger. She had the potential to be one of the best characters on the show imo, and they just completely threw her away. Shit still upsets and confuses me
I can’t be the only one who disliked the seasons Darabont did. Season 1 and 2 are my least favorite seasons. I think the shows quality picked up immensely after he was fired.
She was a badass all along, she took care of the baby and the house! You dont need to be a killer badass to be strong!
Its more crazy that rick and daryl held back and didnt fire. I believe that after beth being shot, rick and daryl wouldve lit up that whole hallway. Beths life mattered more than this.
I remember that the official marketing team for the show made a huge mistake by posting on fb a photo of Daryl caring dead Beth immediately after the episode end, even though half the world still haven't seen the episode. It pissed a lot of people off and showed that was really mostly for the shock value.
im glad u made a video on this episode.
i dont know why, but beth is one of my favourite characters in the entire 11 seasons of twd and her death absolutely devastaded me. if youd ask me which death hit me the most, i would say beth as the first thing that comes to mind and then would have to think what other deaths hurt so badly as this one. maybe its the fact im the same age as she was when she died, so its easy for me to relate to her in the apocalypse as a teenager who didnt even got the chance to start living their life to the fullest. even now watching the final scene of her just gives me chills and makes me sad instantly
I’ve said to BEFORE I’ll say it AGAIN … it is ALWAYS a good day when thrifty boy uploads the best walking dead content creator there is
The second best....MovieIdol will always be #1
@@kylelowe4618 no one compares to thrifty
I feel like movie idol is just click bait
But this channel in my opinion is the best
I saw an interview with Emily Kinney after "Coda," and she said that Gimple told her that he had decided to kill Beth from season 4. If you look back at the episodes that featured Beth in season 4, you can see a lot of foreshadowing. Nevertheless, I've always wondered why he made that decision. The episodes definitely give Emily as an actress a lot to chew on. Beth in many ways was a foil for her sister Maggie. Where Maggie was straightforward and more outwardly courageous, Beth seemed more sheltered and gentle. Nevertheless, she could be every bit as strong willed as her sister, and this trait came to the forefront in her arc after the prison fell. She has no problem pushing Daryl out of his comfort zone, whether it is to continue looking for their family or to find a way to grieve their losses and let go of the past. She continued to believe that there were good people in an increasingly brutal world, a sign of incredible resilience and mental strength. Norman Reedus characterized Beth as Daryl's "light in the darkness." That's a huge compliment, particularly for a character who holds most people at arm's length. I do think that the path the writers had seemingly set Beth upon had enormous growth potential. There are a lot of things that all the characters could have done differently, including Rick, that could have led the episode to a different conclusion. I really can't find a justification for the Grady arc at all, considering the fate of Noah before the season's end. I do think that Beth's death, along with the false promise of the Terminus arc and the utter heartbreak of Tyreese's death, put the entire season 5 group in a desperate place. Beth's death has a hardening effect on Daryl, Carol, Maggie, and Rick that continues to play out over the years. Nevertheless, if that was Gimple's goal, I think there were better ways to accomplish it.
Beth was growing to be such an interesting and strong character! This was such a waste
I remembered when I first watched the episode “Slabtown” and had so many predictions about Beth’s character arc. In the next few episodes, I was lingered with the possibility that Beth may become the next villain, which would have been interesting - which is something similar to what was mentioned about Beth’s possible potential midway through the video. As a whole, I really liked that storyline, but Beth’s death left me very unsatisfied - she even became one of my favorite characters. But who knows what could’ve happened, it’s all speculations and wishes at this point. Maybe one day, we will get a “What If” scenario of Beth’s storyline.
I always envisioned her becoming the villain, then ending up with Eastman.
I agree 100%. It's rarely talked about, because Glenn's death hit people so hard, but Beth's death was definitely the first one that confused and pissed me off. Especially the way they did it at the last second, after building up the relationships between Daryl & Beth and Noah & Beth just right before that. It all felt like wasted potential for a plotline that could've been really entertaining and turned Beth into a more interesting character to watch, as I found her view on the world intriguing in itself.
Couldn't they have just killed Noah off at the hospital, instead of Beth? That would've also been a shocking death because he had escaped, due to Beth's help. Besides, he died like 5 episodes later.
Writers probably thought it would be more shocking to build up Beth and then pull the rug out from under the viewer. They also could have killed Tyreese because he was killed off in the episode directly after and left Noah to grow from it.
A looming unfinished story at grady would have fit nicely. Beth always wanting to go back would be an interesting story piece. And it would have given a way that whichever actors wanted a break could "go" on this mission off screen and then comeback with a recap a couple seasons later. Rick/Michonne/carl all could have gone and returned when their actors wanted to be back on the show and it would jave been better than their generic exits
You might actually be onto something here, like what if the group went through with Dawn's demand and exchanged Noah for Beth. Then they all leave for the road like how it played out in the show only with Beth feeling horrible after leaving him there. Then after a while (not exactly sure when, it could be slotted into the show) Beth insists they have to go back and save him, with maybe Daryl backing her up on it. Could've been a really cool thing if it was in the show.
Great episode even with the pointless death i liked it a lot, also this is the first time i notice Rick glancing at officer Bobs photo of he and his son in the police cruiser just before running him down. Somehow that just multiplies the coldness tenfold
I hate how her death didn't serve any purpose it felt like it was there just to remind us anyone can die i wish she lived and died a later season cause i really wanted to see more of her but then she just died
i remember telling myself when this episode first aired that beth just got an episode all to herself, it was so stupid to kill her off when her character was just getting interesting
I wouldn’t call it disappointing but underwhelming, the bit with Beth made me feel the most sad to a character for years and I would say it opens up the Alexandria ark really well imo seeing the group turn feral before discovering it but everything else is just you can kinda tell what’s going to happen.
I think in a lot of ways the dwight arrow to the eye might have been a fitting death for beth. I could definitely see her out on the road yelling at daryl and rosita to get their crap together.
@@consciousprophit7692that would be so much worse. I think this was kinda a good end because of the devastation and the reactions.
I believe Tyreese’s death meant something, and it served a purpose. Especially with how low the group get on the road to Alexandria, and how dark they become during the lead up to Negan’s intro
I agree. Tyreese's death was one more blow to the group already reeling from Beth being killed. The episode following Tyreese's death is one of my favorites. I felt like they had utterly lost hope as a group and I could really empathize.
I definitely think Beth’s death is wasted potential. I don’t think she would’ve or even should’ve lived more than another season or season and a half but I do think she should’ve died before Glenn did however I think there was more story to tell with Beth. Her and Noah felt unfinished and I still felt like she had some room to grow. It feels like she helped spark the mini depression arc of episodes 5x09 and 5x10 but that wasn’t enough justification for her death imo, she definitely had a greater purpose on the show that wasn’t fully explored. I think the proper time for her departure from the show should’ve been late season 5 or early season 6. I think the show escape the no way out era without enough carnage, Beth could’ve been one of the big losses which would’ve given her another 8-16 episodes to develop and solidify herself as a survivor
I think atleast either Noah or Beth should have survived to the very end, but definitely I think both of them should have survived this season.
Beth was one of my favorite characters, especially because she was an original to the show. Her character could have developed into so much more, especially with how she managed to connect with Daryl.
Beth had SO much opportunity. I personally think she should've been one of the pike deaths in season 9 or maybe live on further. Like Typewriter said, maybe giving her an arc of coming back to the hospital to liberate it would've been a good arc. I also think that she could've stepped up to lead hilltop in Maggie's absence and could've been a great character to bounce off of for Enid. Also, keeping her and Daryl's dynamic around would've been great to see.
I watched the whole show (almost) around the start of this year from binging it, not on television like a lot of people did, but via netflix. I watched it all until around mid season 10. I got very disinterested. Daryl and Carol's plotlines seemed very boring and it felt like they were the only two characters that got major screentime anymore. The only character I really cared to see was Connie. Don't get me wrong, I grew a large fondness for Daryl and Carol, but at this point it felt like they were being shoved in my face all the time.
If I would be able to change what happens here is what would happen.
Season 5; Beth doesn't stab Dawn, but she has an arc regretting that she didn't. Maybe a late night conversation with Daryl she admits something like "I had the scissors right in my hand! I could've stabbed her and Noah would be safe." Somewhere from S5-7 she goes back with some of the group to help liberate it and get it back. Tyreese also doesn't randomly get killed in this alternate universe.
Skip to season 6: Maybe Beth becomes a secondary medic for Alexandria. She and Noah start dating and form some sort of relationship maybe, idk. Noah becomes a replacement architect for the community after Reg dies and becomes an integral structural genius in strengthening the walls around Alexandria.
Skip to season 7: Tyreese is killed at the lineup instead of Abraham, Glenn still dies here as normal. Beth and Noah would be present at the lineup too. Possibly Maggie and Beth have a conversation mirroring their conversation on suicide in season 2, except Maggie feels somewhat suicidal after her husband's death and Beth comforts her. I thiiink Sasha died this season I could be wrong but anyway now that Abraham is still alive in this AU, she doesn't kill herself here.
Skip to season 9: Maybe instead of Henry dying, maybe Sasha takes his place. I think Siddiq dies here in the actual show, but since Beth has also been a medic for a while, she's there when Dante attempts to kill Siddiq. Beth is able to stop him.
Boom. Now let's compare the cast of mains we have for s10-11 in this AU to the actual show:
AU: Carol, Maggie (minor), Daryl, Eugene (I heard he plays a big role in s11), Connie (+ her group ig, tbh the rest aren't too interesting), Judith, Negan PLUS Siddiq, Abraham, Beth and Noah
Show: Carol, Maggie (minor), Daryl, Eugene (I heard he plays a big role in s11), Connie (+ her group ig, tbh the rest aren't too interesting), Judith, Negan
That is such an amazing idea oml. It cleans up some issues later down in the show, leaves characters some of the viewers can actually care about and just makes for a better outcome overall. Read this in another comment but Beth deciding to go save Noah at the hospital also gives any actors who wanted a break an outing to because it could be handled off screen and then shown in later episodes as a flashback kind of thing (like when Daryl showed back up outside the church with Noah and we found out what happened to Carol). Great comment with really good ideas!!
the fact that this ep comes before whats happening and whats going on is so sad
Coda has my favourite opening, Rick chasing and killing that guy shows how brutal the world has made him. The trade and the is also a great scene showing how Rick's planning has got better.
I felt similarly about Sophia, Carl, and Morales’ deaths. Also T-Dog.
TDogs death was the worst because for some reason they had a hard on for killing characters in pairs but tdogs death was overshadowed by loris death and didn’t seem to matter that much to anyone because of it
I'll never forget where I was when I watched this Episode. My older Brother and I would watch the Show religiously every week and we were both in tears with this Episode. R.I.P. Beth.
If the actress wanted out then okay im cool with that but if that wasn’t the case then they wasted our time and the actress’ time. Why build her character just to kill her off so pointlessly? Also that hospital storyline was sooo stupid.
Scott Gimple actually planning her death since season 4…
I'm sure i heard somewhere she wanted out to focus on music
@@Cat-nb6cp I heard that as well, but I havent really seen an official source/statement from her or anyone apart of her team that confirms this
She didn’t want out. In fact I remember her saying that they all found out about her death the day they got the script and filmed it less than a week later. It really was that they just needed a mid season finale death.
@@wholockedholmes5600 Same for Carl's actor, who switched colleges and moved near the shooting location only for them to kill him off.
The "Cant go back, Bob" call-back line from Rick really gives you goosebumps because it shows how much Rick learns from enemies and how they shape him into a survivor first and leader second
Also, since we're on a season 5 streak, I think you should make a video discussing the episode where the lie Eugene made gave Abraham false hope: "Self Help"
This episode and the one after were the biggest kickers in the entire series for me. One massive death per episode right after another. That’s epic. The tension in the hospital, Rick starting to become ruthless, the buildup to the exchange at the end. This and the episode after are some of the most shocking & greatest moments in the entire series for me. Such kickers
When watching this for the first time starting in S4 I was intrigued of what happened to Beth. Did she drive away in the Cross car or did someone grab her? I just never knew. It started off hot with mystery and when it picked up in s5 I was excited but like u said I felt the plot of the cops/hospital arc could've been better. So killing off Beth was a huge mistake. Like u said her plot could've expanded larger. This also goes for characters like Tyreese and Noah. Some shock value deaths that never hit the mark and was overall disappointed in Beth's death as this was a wasted arc in the show. Again the potential was there for something bigger but this was more of a "let's stop here" before we hit Alexandria. RIP Beth
I've always disliked this storyline but never had any idea of how it could've been done better until now. Your idea of saving Beth but losing Noah, and Beth eventually leading the gang to go back for him would've been the perfect route for this storyline to go.
I could even see it working as a single storyline in season 5. Cut out a lot of the fluff at the hospital, have the gang rescue Beth earlier, then have the return to the hospital be the mid season finale. This would also fix the issue is the lack of connection between the rest of the gang and the hospital, since they'd have been there before. Particularly the aspect of Rick's ideals conflicting with his fellow cops'. Honestly could've fixed everything wrong with this storyline with this one change
I would love a character analysis video on Gabriel! He went from one of my least favorite characters to one of my favorites!
I do agree that Beth could have had a longer arc and it would have been good for her to be in the show for longer. I haven't watched the video (yet, busy at the moment) but here is my reasoning to why Beth's death wasn't pointless.
1. Impact on Daryl. Daryl had grown close to Beth, trusting her and opening up but eventually losing her. This is something that keeps happening to him, e.g. Merle, Rick, and not as much Carl, Glenn. This prompts self reflection for Daryl, making him question his ability to question the ones he cares about (similar thing happened in season 2 with Sofia), this leads to character growth.
2.Reinforces unpredictable nature of TWD. The unpredictable nature of TWD in my opinion adds to the realism (even though it's about dead people walking), her death serves as a reminder that no one is safe and they can die at anytime.
3. Leads to shifts in the groups motivation, decisions and alliances. This further progresses the plot.
4. Changes the group dynamic, it creates tension and emotional struggle. This shows the way different people respond to respond to tragedy.
5. I find Beth's death quite symbolic. She was the embodiment of innocence and hope for a better world. It shows that in this world even the brightest light can be extinguished.
I could probably think of more but those are my reasons.
Would of had Beth die at Negan's Satellite group raid it would have been a much stronger connection with the dilemma of dealing with Negan.
At least we can all agree the soundtrack after her death is fire🔥
Whoops I just finished the video and you mentioned it at the end 😂
Disappointing is the perfect word for this episode. I was so hyped coming to this episode. Also I started to like Beth more as a character but then the writers straight up kill her 😭
I loved beth and her death was heart breaking. I remember back at the time alot of people were making theories of "Beths not dead, the bullet went through her head and didnt hit brain" "Beth is alive and leader of the wolves" "They didnt did a funeral/bury beth so she must be alive" All those things just to keep hope alive. Ah poor beth.. as for the jesus death, his actor said he was bored of playing the character and wanted to go, so cant really fault that. Though i suppose they could have made him dissapear, captured by crm or something but yeah
This hospital arc does an amazing job of depicting what terrible people some police officers are. Not all of them, but there are definitely a large percentage of them out there that would be just like the officers at the hospital. Often time cops think they are above the law and because of their position can do whatever they want. Also the fact many of them became cops because they were picked on as kids so they become cops to enforce their power over people. Cops are the single group that display "little man" syndrome more than any other group of people there is. This episode just does a marvelous job of exploring these facts.
I love the track too. ❤
I feel like Beth should’ve stayed alive. Maggie lost so much. Hershel, Beth and Glenn, the characters we fell in love…
Amazing video please never stop I could watch these videos for hours❤
For me, Beth and Tyrease’s deaths showed how bad things were getting for the group, and being out how amazing Alexandria was for the characters. They were at their all time low before arriving at Alexandria: they had no home, no resources for survival, and had just lost two people in their family basically back to back. Alexandria was the first good thing to happen to them in a very long time, and that needed to be very clear to everyone
The thing a lot of people missed when it came to coda, especially if you watched it on tv, was the post credit scene with Morgan at the church where ricks group met father Gabriel foreshadowing his return at the end of the season
The thing I loved about this ep is that no one is safe at any time.
I am also fine with Beth's death. I liked the character but she was always a side character to Maggie and part of Maggie's story arch is losing everything.
Rick chasing down the cop always reminded me of when rick chases down Martinez in comics.
All of your TWD videos are always very exciting to watch and look forward to. Please make a video on S8 E13!!!!!
The whole hospital-arch was weird. Some interesting moments, though. The painting in the doctor's room. The lollipops.
I've always thought of Dawn being more of a miss lead leader than a villian and Beth's death was not needed, it also annoys me how she died to save Noah only to have him killed off not long after
I personally think it would’ve been better for when dawn says that she wants Noah back, Beth steps in knowing that Noah staying there is worse than him leaving and chooses to stay with dawn and the rest of the police officers to make this group better, closer and more caring rather than forced to work like prisoners and jailers, the whole idea of Beth stepping up as a leader role under dawns wing for a separate group than ricks would’ve been great. Beth showing the group how to care for one another after she had her whole arc and outing about not caring with Daryl would’ve probably been better. The group possibly could’ve been brought back at a later season for something as well
It sucks that Beth died but at least back then they weren’t afraid to kill people like they where in S9, 10, and 11
It's good that they're afraid of killing characters now, the death rates in earlier seasons were shit.
that's because by now they're pros. a lot of the deaths are when they forget and get too comfortable or against other people. walkers aren't the biggest threat anymore.
Season 9 killed off so many characters it wasn’t funny. Season 10 and 11 didn’t because people complained about it. People said they needed to stop writing off so many characters. They stopped writing off characters and then people complained that they weren’t writing enough people off smh
@BoogSReviews thankyou someone who gets it no matter what happens people complain
Goobers like you would complain if people die or if people don't die. I complain when the death derails the story and serves no greater purpose. We are not the same.
Letting Beth die in the fight with the Savior might adding heat to Daryl outburst and explaining attacking Negen better
I would have loved to have seen Beth regroup at Alexandria only to save Noah and to take out Dawn.
They killed Tyrese in the next episode, I couldn’t figure out why kill Beth to then end him too, his was a mistake that made sense, he had trauma that caused him to hesitate leading to his death. Beth could have lived in and they could have just ended tyrese. I see Beth dying over Noah to be better as well. If they waited to kill Beth for when they killed noah it would have been more impactful. We didn’t know Noah enough to really care for him as a character so his death was sad but pointless and if they had built Beth in that time to an even better character her dying because if Nicholas would he even more impactful than noah dying, then he could have stayed and been good character for the longer haul.
They had an obsession with killing in pairs. Those you mentioned. Abraham and Glenn, Dale and Shane, and Lori and Tdog
When Rick runs bob over and bob asked to go back, Rick says “can’t go back bob” which is what Gareth said to bob in no sanctuary and you see Rick pause after saying it
The only time in the show that I can remember when a zombie showed up inconveniently or without the plot needing it is when the guy who trained Morgan died
Please do season 8 episode 8 en 9 next
He has
Yeah he talks about it alot on the waisted potential of Carl Grimes
I actually 100% agree with you on everything you said in this video. Love your content and keep up the great work!
I actually think how Beth reacted made sense, she really cared for Noah and she was only 18 so she still doesn't know how to fully control her emotions, specifically anger. Do I think she should have died? No, Beth was one of my favorite characters and it devastated me when she did die.
im sorry but i don't agree with the age excuse
@@czarspriite7238 You don't have to agree, it's just how I view her death.
@@Apothi.s ik
beth's death was a major mistake. if she had survived for longer, not necessarily until the end - she would've become a nurturing figure to judith just like how lori was with beth during season 2 - 3, keeping lori's memory alive and not making us forget what had occurred in earlier seasons.
Maggie's reaction to Beth's death makes me cry every time
I love your walking dead analysis videos thrifty ❤
I stopped watching TWD after Beth's death, and finally after all these years finished the show (and rewatched what I already viewed live) this year.
You nailed it, Coda is probably the worst episode writing/story wise.
Dude I will never understand how dawn Quickdrawed Beth. If you watch the scene before beth stabs dawn her gun I holstered and then as soon as she is stabbed she somehow kills Beth. I was so shocked and disappointed Beth died. And Even worse Beth had just about no reason to stab dawn who just helped Beth kill that one office in the elevator shaft
Beth had every reason.
@linaskranauskas ig but dawn was the nicest to Beth but still a ass and like I said they helped each other to kill the cop. So it should have been water under the bridge. But I understand she was mad about the Noah thing
@@KillaxCam11 she was mad about the Noah, but more importantly she understood dawn's evilness long time ago. she only helped with the cop because it was her survival instinct and because the cop was even worse. it's like Dwight throwing simon under the bus.
@linaskranauskas dawn wasn't evil she was just trying to hold everything together and yea she let the other officers do just about whatever without saying anything but she wasn't evil
@@KillaxCam11 sorry, my mistake. I thought we were discussing the Walking Dead here
Late to watching, and got to say I definitely respect your take on the episode. Just as you say the first 35 minutes are some of my favorite moments from the season. I agree the only “problem” I have with the episode is Beth’s death, yet I also see the light and reason for it. Beth’s character up until this point had been a victim of circumstance. She’s never been able to carve her own path or choices simply bc she didn’t have the will to. By the end of this arc and episode she absolutely does. She finally makes her choice to step up and “fight back” per say but as this world shows that not everything is as simple as it seems. Beth definitely wanted to kill Dawn but with little to no experience she of course doesn’t hit the sweet spot. Dawn retaliates off instinct. Yes it’s disappointing and while it would be cool to see where Beth could’ve went. I also just think it hammers home the point of the harshness of the world. Beth was never going to be a hardened survivor like the rest of the group. But they still were able to send her off In her own unique way. Yes she dies but she also goes getting to finally make her own choice in the world. It’s a bittersweet moment but one I actually tend to like. I genuinely think this episode is a top 10-15 episode. Beth’s arc ending abruptly was definitely a little questionable from a viewer standpoint but the rest of the episode was elite.
I always thought of Beth and Tryrese’s death were just a reminder that you never know when it’s your day in TDW world. As invincible as you or your group may seem, death is always looking over your shoulder
Would've been better if they kept Beth alive to be an agent for Rick to someday make Noah leave that place. On to season 7, Beth's storyline continues as she found out that Dawn has a past with Negan and is working with the saviors. It's Beth's role to take out Dawn.
Dawn & negan are in 2 different states..WTH😂😂😂
@@rayb.1180 yes but they previously met for example.
I reaaaaallly wish the show stayed in the city more, season 1 in the city/outskirts was such a vibe... so when this hospital arc was going on i was kinda excited. This episode drained everything from me.
I hate how they would give characters loads of character development just to kill them off for shock factor, they did the same thing with Andrea in season 3 but Beth had potential to be the best written character in the show and they threw it away
can you please cover “After” and how it changed Carl and Rick’s relationship?
Please cover the episode "One More." the episode where Gabriel and Aaron meet Mags and he forces them to do Russian Roulette. Such an underrated episode and the ending gives me goosebumps everytime...
I like these videos and how you’re keeping TWD alive but you should really cover the comics
I haven't seen a single person talking about this, but I just realized that the single quote in this entire franchise that I think about most to this day, actually comes from Dawn.
"Some people just aren't made for this life, and that's okay. As long as they don't take advantage of the ones who are"
Say what you want about everything else about Dawn, but this one very moment has given me multiple existential crises over the span of multiple years. That’s powerful.
Keep up the walking dead videos mate, really enjoy them!
Idk why but Beth reminds me of a silent hill character- anyway this episode isn't tbe best but I liked seeing how Rick deals with other groups now when it came to a situation like a member of the group being trapped within another group, like how in season 3 or 4 (can't remember which) when the governor had Glen and Maggie trapped. Its just kinda cool seeing how Rick deals with it now with more experience
Daryl killed his brother,watched Glenn die,and watch Beth die, and he once said we have one enemy we ain't THE WALKING DEAD
Beth death it's like Sophia's, you know?
The gang spent entire episodes looking for them only to realize they're dead o see them dying in front of the group.
dawn just makes me sad. she wanted something better and my take is that she was too scared to make things right
I only saw Beth’s death ( I was working late )
I’m glad I’m not the only one who had asked why…
Yeah it felt like Beth was just killed for shock value, plus Noah died a few episodes later without doing anything making her attempted sacrifice pointless. Beth attacking Dawn could’ve led to everybody getting killed in the face off. And it also helped regress Daryl into a moody hothead when he had developed into a capable leader and second in command by Season 3-4. He didn’t fully recover until Season 9 after Rick died.
You made too many valid points the episode was full of characters that could’ve been written a whole lot better it’s like they just wanted to shock us with these deaths
This episode broke me more than the beginning of season 7 some how