In total agreement here. I’m ex military and also a big fan of tech and gps. However if you can’t read a map proficiently, you definitely won’t be able to use gps apps or handhelds properly. I think your channel is brilliant- not just for navigation but for the historic insights. Oh and the sandwiches!! 😎. All the best. Clive.
Agreed entirely, I live within a couple of hours walk from Kinder Scout and have had people with GPS maps on the plateau asking me where they were. What they meant, they wanted to know how to relate the position to the (clearly) visible features around them and where they wanted to go
Yup. I am in total agreement. I was in charge of a squad of young Army Cadets somewhere near Oakhampton. We were on a march when the fog came down and just by the use of a map and silva compass we managed to get to safety, and a hot cuppa!
I've always regarded GPS as a backup, especially for reassurance and position checking, never as my primary navigational tool. Very thoughtful insights. Thank you!
I'm a fell runner so love navigation, in Wales GPS is still banned in all fell races as it should be and I hope that never changes. Living in Snowdonia I come across lots of people using GPS on their phones, but to be fair they stare at the screens with a confused look on their faces the majority of the time, I've found the way people explore has been massively effected, because on the whole most hikers simply don't explore any more, most follow a pre-set route they loaded into their app the day before, and this has changed Snowdonia at least, as now more than ever before, people walk the same paths up the same mountains over and over, meaning the traditional busy areas have become much busier and the traditional quieter areas have turned into ghost towns. But one thing which irks me a little is I always have a map in my hand while running as I use the fell running technique where you fold the map and hold it with your thumb marking your last known position, so I find I'm regularly asked by GPS users if they can have a look at my map, and of course I oblige them politely with a smile, but inside I'm thinking "Carry your own bloody map!" 🤣 Rant over, love your videos!
Was on Pavey Ark earlier this year, lovely clear day and two hikers wandered towards me both staring at their phones and occasionally standing still to do a 360. They asked me where the summit was. I said it's the highest point that you can see (we were already on it) and they said thanks and walked away still looking at their phones. I'm not sure what to make of that but it was amusing.
Same answer as why to learn making fire with flint and steel: in order to become proficient, you need to be aware of your surroundings, actively searching for resources, for landmarks, for clues, then you are more aware about a deer, a flower, birds chirping and you will better observe the scenery. I think it is the "being there" that might be lost on the screen.
In practice a battery dying is a very good reason. I nearly had that happen when taking a route where a footbridge was broken, adding an extra 5 miles to my round walk. That's what convinced me to learn map reading.
I learned rudimentary land navigation when I was a soldier in the Canadian artillery. Now, forty years later, I restudy it for fun. It's a great way to keep your brain sharp.
Ok, so a few years ago (possibly more than a few) I used to instruct RYA nav courses, I always commenced the course with a little speech about teaching 17th century nav techniques, even though the candidates envariably would use GPS plotters when ever they set out, but the thing is that good grounding in a skill/technique/knowledge, provided the candidates with support base which allowed further development, I have a machine that can cut dovetail joints... but knowing how to cut them with hand tools makes me a slightly more competent. More power to your elbow sir, let's maintain a skill set which enhances the use of modern tools. thanks for a great channel. happy new year long may you prosper.
Just started learning navigation with map and compass ( at the tender age of 60) thanks to your channel i can see my new super power developing rapidly. Thank you 👍
I learned to navigate using map and compass in the military (Sweden) and the teaching was very similar to your approach. I agree that it gives you independence and map reading skills. My best reason is that the map is larger than the tiny screen on the phone which in bright sunlight is pretty hard to read. GPS has its place and used in a navigator app in a car infotainment system it's superior to the map when you drive alone.
as someone who uses both maps and phone GPS for navigation in the woods, it's important to understand that your phone uses up battery much faster when you're in areas with no or low service. if you're planning on being outside for many hours, or even days, it starts to become less easy to assume your phone will be available to help you find your way. i always carry a paper map with me as backup, and i pull it out to use for navigation sometimes just to stay practiced at using it. the paper maps have the benefit of being able to show you a much broader area at once, because it's bigger than a phone screen. that comes in handy if you're trying to decide a route that goes a longer distance.
Just an aside here, your phone will not use up more battery if you turn on airplane mode when you're out of range; it'll last a lot longer that way than it does when you're at home or in a city, in fact, as the cellular, wifi, and bluetooth radios will be turned off. GPS will work fine but you need a good offline app to use with them.
We spend a lot of time outdoors camping in wilderness or remote areas. We look for wild orchids, berries and mushrooms all of which lead us away from the beaten path. We do a lot of remote canoe trips. A few years back, I got lost in the dark on a lake searching for a remote campsite. I had a poor map and a bad compass. Yes I had a phone but it was dead. This was my motivation to see if I could brush up on my map and compass skills. I was very happy to find your u tube channel. Definitely the most useful and entertaining. LONG LIVE THE WAFFLE! Yes I use a map app on my phone but there's nothing like the sense of security that comes from having skills with a map and compass.
I take part in multi-day/night adventure races whereby gps devices of any kind are not allowed. Map and compass only. Your channel has been absolutely invaluable as a tool to brush-up on my navigational skills. Keep up the great work😊👍
I have been a map nerd since I was a child. My father was a conservationist for the government and always had maps around. Learning more about them in school made me enjoy them all the more. In my early adulthood I got to use maps professionally working for an ambulance service. It has always struck me as odd that some people do not know how to read maps, or grasp the concept of navigating. I believe those people lose out on understanding a lot about the local environment and lay of the land. Just following the commands given to you by a small box doesn't teach much.
I am ex Navy Surveyor and I know to read a Navigation Chart. I am also a mountaineer and trekker and I am not that good a map reader and that why I subscribed to you. I love how simply you explain things. We use google maps here in India and 25% of time that will lead you to a blind alley or bad road. Its cool to be able to read a physical map and find your way, especially when you are hiking deep in the mountains. OSMaps are far better than GMap.
GPS is an amazing tool. I'd love to see you do some videos about using it alongside a map and compass. I did this the other day, I saw a mountain in the distance and was wondering what it was. I was able to take an accurate bearing of the mountain with my sighting compass, and then in my gps app draw a 25 mile line from my location in that direction. It went right over my mystery mountain. I don't carry a map that shows stuff 20 miles away and my phone is bad at taking accurate bearings, so in that case, gps app and compass was a great combo.
In fact a compass and a map are technology as well. Navigating can also be done without these tools. Even though it would be much harder. For example: I’ve been riding my bicycle through half of South America back when I was 23. At some point the only thing my map told me was that I would be entering an unpaved ‘road’. No villages, no clue of altitude. I could see a river on the map though, so I knew there would be hills/mountains at both sides. (Also I was in the Andes, which also helps to determine this…) Instead of turning back, in Spanish I asked locals for help in a village. In fact, they gave me help without me even asking for it. I was able to write on a piece of paper the names of the next villages. In between the names I would use arrows to indicate if it would be mainly going up or mainly going down (pointing top right or bottom right). If there wasn’t an agreement between the locals themselves, I would just write a horizontal arrow between the village names. This way I was able to locate the next villages and able to decide where (and when) to stay for the night. The map was useless that day. Local language was very helpful that day, as it allowed me to be welcomed as the first tourist ever in Cajamarquilla (somewhere between Catac and Ocros in Peru.) “Don’t worry though. Terrorist organisation Sendero Luminoso has been eliminated/chased away around 5 years ago”, the mayor of Cajamarquilla told me in Spanish. Quite remarkable btw for a village which was only accessible by foot or donkey until a few months prior, and which had 1 telephone at the local shop for the whole village of around 100 houses. (Back in 2004 they didn’t have tv or cell phones in this village. Let alone internet…) Furthermore, these days digital maps will give you a 3D picture of the area. The app MapOut for example (no affiliation whatsoever) does this. No need to guess wether the altitude lines on the map are going up or down. Also, with MapOut I can entirely draw the route myself. Even for water based adventures. (Using the freeform drawing tool of the app.) You can load a track and then alter the track itself with your own fingers. Yes, you read that right. I have also loaded a GPX full of water tap waypoints. If I need water I can turn on this layer and then I can turn it off again. I have also loaded a GPX full of shelters in Germany, which I can turn on or off. The cycle routes of various countries can be turned on or off to ease route planning (cycle routes are usually more scenic and therefore logical to follow). Same goes for hiking routes. There’s a lot more to navigation apps nowadays than just let it calculate a route and show a route or track. And I haven’t even started on navigation with a watch. Battery life around one whole week when navigating and logging a track at the same time. (After all: “if it isn’t on Strava, it didn’t happen!” 😉)
Yip I have a masters degree in GIS and Remote sensing. being able to change layers and view streets and trails then switch to aerial image and 3D image gives way more information. Garmin InReach/EPERB does not matter where you are in the world you can communicate with rescuers and get outside assistance. Just relying on map and compass is risky there are many things that can affect compass readings. All mobile phones have build in compasses that also give lat and long. An outdoor watch that has compass, GPS, altitude and barometer is giving more detail including weather.
The skill of using a map and compass to navigate connects you to your surroundings in a way that GPS equipment never will. I use a GPS device to log my distance travelled, average speed, time on the move and to check my coordinates if needed. I find it more fun to use a map and compass than a GPS.
Putting 100% reliance on one method of navigation is risky...the further out you go the more risky doing that is..whether its electric or paper. I have seen paper maps get lost or somehow get wet and disintegrate over miles in a backpack. Having more then one source for navigation is a wise idea. A compass and paper map are great skills to learn and one could argue learning to use modern navigation systems in this age are also great skills to learn.
13 years ago, I went on a 5-day bike trip to Paris with a route booklet and without mobile internet. I took a simple baseplate compass 'just in case', but ended up using it all the time. It became second nature to use it and I brought it with me on many subsequent trips. It did however mean stopping at many a crossroads. Using a GPS device, as I do these days, does take some charm away, but it allows for significantly more kilometers per average day. Still, being able to use a compass is a great skill to have.
Apart from your great argument that map reading skills are simply a superpower, the best I can imagine is that electronic GPS aids are only conceivable in an advanced form of a "guiding light", which explains all the data to the user on his mobile phone and guides him/her through the digital map. But this application will not come for a long time because it is not economically viable. Nobody will invest money in development if it doesn't pay off. The military perhaps? Until then, the map and compass will remain irreplaceable. I think... It will need you, Wayne! Show us that superpower :)
@@leejohnson3209 I agree on useless when wet. I live in the Lake District so I’m familiar with wet. But it is possible, even in heavy rain, to operate a phone.
Land navigation is FUN! It’s also miles more than anything GPS can replace. GPS might give you a fix, but can it help you make decisions, route choices, navigation strategies? Land navigation is much more than “where am I now?” More to the point, land navigation is a vital part of how human brains evolved and using those skills keeps us alert and smart as human beings. Did I also mention, ITS FUN! What other reason would you have to go out on wild nights and low visibility days to find some obscure features and have an adventure on the way? GPS is ok as a backup, like a dictionary for once you have completed the crossword. But for goodness sake, don’t just look up every clue! Journeys are about the journey. Don’t miss out on learning and using land navigation!
When I was in my 20s (in the 1980s) I learned to use map and compass to navigate in wilderness areas of California. Even with the advent of GPS apps/devices, I still use paper maps and compass (a Suunto I've had since 1984). I find that this "old school" method of land nav helps me stay more aware of my surroundings; which helps me enjoy my time in backcountry areas.
Retired military here, and I can't tell you the number of times people who should have known better went wrong with GPS. I don't even use it unless it's to make a position.
I also agree. Maps help develop spatial awareness, an expression you don't often hear, but it's something that makes being out in the country, or even planning a day out in the car so much more rewarding. I live near where two National Trials cross, and never cease to be amazed by the number of people who either stop me and ask me where they are, or look totally lost so I stop to help, and I find that they are trying to use a phone and are heading in the wrong direction, or sometimes are simply on the wrong path mile from where they want to be.
I use a GPS on my hikes because I find it hard to get good maps of the areas where I hike. Would love another video on the history of the building you where near. Amazing stone work .
I'm an old guy that still has a problem with the new technology GPS. I use it on occasion but I still prefer to carry a good paper map. From America thanks for your efforts. Wish I had you as an instructor in the Boy Scouts and the Marines back in1960's and 70's.
Well I am very keen on all related to navigation by map and compass for the same reason I am very keen on film photography and darkroom developing. And it is not because I can't use or don't have an iphone , gps and a digital camera. It's just more fun. Happy New Year Wayne!
Hi Wayne!! You will never be replaced!!! You’re way too awesome!!! You’re the reason why I love your channel and content!!! I have learned so much from you, have applied your knowledge and skills and it’s an awesome feeling!!! You’re an awesome inspiration and amazing teacher!! We love you!!! Thank you so much!!! Strength and honor my friend be well!! Merry Christmas and happy new year!!🎊🎊🎉🎉👍🏿❤️💯💯 from Washington state 🇺🇸
This debate is also often heard between water sports practitioners. The GPS vs map/chart and compass. Using both in tandem is good practice (Regulations expect mariners to use all available means to be sure of position). Using a chart plotter (or even just a phone) is very convenient but enxourages lazy habits The authorities would hope that navigators plot gps derived positions onto paper at intervals. In an incident enquiry a passage plan and trip details in the log could be used in evidence. As for celestial, the US navy is said to have changed direction sharply of late. It had reduced the watch level of qualified to a very low level until someone twigged that even the most robust system could fail. (The "Iranian kid in his bedroom with a laptop" kind of thing) Now apparently the Navy have resumed earlier levels which is i think one qualified on the bridge on every watch. Good job they realised before it was too late - that a pencil and eraser are key tools in navigational practice. This series by The Map Reading Co is excellent and is highly entertaining.
GPS is my primary, because I don't go places where getting lost is life-threatening. If I did then I'd absolutely also take a map and a compass. I don't want to die because I dropped my phone...
I’m both old (66) and (ex) military. I learned to map read as a child (The Cubs) in the 1960’s, more detailed navigation in the early 1970’s, and honed my skill as a Mortar Fire Controller where map reading is a CRITICAL skill. I still prefer maps, I still have my issued 7” protractor R.A.! I love map reading. Even today I find nothing more exciting than using back bearings to pinpoint exactly where I am (yeah…I know…sad) and to show me what the land actually looks like in order to select the safest, easiest route. Long May maps exist!
I think of navigation like learning a language or how to spell. GPS is like MS word spell check, a dictionary is like a map and compass, but the ultimate goal is learning to spell perfectly without aid. Map and compass are still a type of crutch like GPS. For me, the ultimate goal is to be able to memorize a map (trails, topography, water, etc) and an internal compass (by which I mean you’re always aware of your orientation relative to your surroundings; not that you can close your eyes, spin wildly around, and point north with your eyes still closed). Using a map and compass is the easiest way I’ve found to start to internalize those skills (traveling an area extensively and building your own maps is the best way). Using GPS alone is never going to get you to start memorizing a map or building perfect sense of direction, although it is the best way I’ve found of testing my ability to pinpoint exactly where I am. I always take a compass in my first aid kit, as I have used it when bushwhacking to stay on a heading or worst case in white out conditions, but I don’t always take a map, as I am usually backpacking in areas I have a memorized map.
I have a Garmin GPS device ( Etrex 35t) with full Uk maps installed (talkie Toaster) , I plot my route using my computer/ tablet using free software and download it to my device ( including escape routes) but I also learnt to use a map and compass too.
I agree. Total reliance on electronics is convenient, but maps provide a certain spatial awareness of your surroundings in your head, which is essential for me. Even with electronics in the bushes, I still lke to reference the maps also, for this reason. It adds more dimension for me.
I teach map reading and navigation as part of a rather specialised training course that involves making sketch maps of possible work sites. I’ve found that today most people have no idea of ‘space’. However teaching them how a map works enables them to produce site sketches.
If you believe in backing up critical gear then you want to take both. And relying on map and compass at any point in your system means you need to be proficient with it. And that means it should be your primary means of navigating while hiking in order to grow and maintain your skill, and to conserve your GPS/phone battery. The only reason not to use map and compass is to save a bit of time, and if you're trying to rush to your destination while recreating in nature then you're doing it wrong.
You can use a GPS watch for following a line on a screen. The phone in airplane mode can be used for a broader sense of the surroundings with an offline map. The paper map and compass are for backup. Since you’re looking at the surroundings and a (digital) map anyway, it wouldn’t matter a lot to change from the digital map to the paper map when needed (battery dies or it rains so much that the phone screen becomes unusable).
@@EhWahEhWahEhWah Sure, but see my point about learning and practicing skills. Using GPS as primary means you aren't getting that. If you're already an expert from years in the military or something, then sure you probably don't need to practice. But the rest of us do. That said, we would still probably be ok by taking our time and playing it safe. We're just talking about a few percentage points in the worst situations. See his videos on advanced nav at night, in rain/fog, etc.
The practice of traditional Land Navigation give us the mental skill to build a virtual reality in our own mind, just like reading a novel. When you face the real world it's very easy to correct the mental model and take actions if something suddenly change. The machine hasn't that skill and surely doesn't face danger as well. We should cherish the huge human work and knowledge built into a map.
Advantages and disadvantages to both technologies. Paper maps can be outdated. A digital map allows one to quickly calculate a (hiking/cycling) route and then refine it to their preference. When on the go it will be easy to deviate from the intended route with the digital map. When the navigation app skips a certain path, one should be asking himself why. Perhaps it doesn’t link to another path and that could be why it’s not part of the automated route. Which could be interesting for bikerafting or packrafting of course… In both cases one depends on the details of the map. No difference whatsoever.
Sussed from the first frame you were quite local at rivington. Personally, I get a little “buzz” from (nearly) always knowing where I am on a map. But having recently done some technically difficult orienteering events, there’s room for improvement.😂 That IS fine navigation. Love the channel.
There is great satisfaction and joy in using a map and compass and having mastered the skills to do so effectively over using an electronic device. For me its a big part of what makes hiking so enjoyable. Its a bit like reading a real book over listening to an audio-book online. A map encourages you to look around and be very aware of the landscape around you instead of having eyes glued to a screen. One of the reasons for hiking is to get back to nature and away from electronic devices and also develop your inherent skills.
I was with a group that insisted on using phones only, which I wasn’t opposed to. However, there was a bit of an "aha" moment during a discussion about where to go next on a day hike. Half a dozen people were huddled around a phone screen. I unfolded my map of the area, oriented it to the terrain, and invited the group to join me. Once they saw how much clearer everything became and appreciated the broader situational awareness a map provides, they stopped poking fun at my map. GPS and paper maps should compliment each other, not be mutually exclusive.
The main thing in the outdoors is to know where the identifiable bounds are such as river, road ,Ridgeline, power lines etc and how they relate to never getting lost
Thank You good Sir for all of your knowledge shared to the whole world! This video made me want to go out and use some new map on some new location. Thanks.
During a mountaineering course we practiced map reading as well. Interestingly, I found map reading much more difficult in mountainous terrain. To 'map' the mountains you're seeing around you at various distances to a bunch of contour lines on a maps is not easy!
As I am a bit older, I grew up without GPS. Therefore I am already firm with maps, and I still prefer them. With sailing GPS is very convenient, but you still need a map. The disadvantage of chart plotters and GPS handhelds is, that you have no survey, and you cannot write on them. Of course, I have a GPS, the Garmin 67, and I use it rather often, but for micronavigation, where 1:25.000 is too small. That is in residential areas, or when many places simply post their coordinates on the internet instead of more or less cryptic charts. Another useful function is, that you can log your trail for further usage. But that can be obtained with a simple GPS logger the size of a USB stick. I got one, too, such things are not sold anymore, and it is a nice insurance, when actually lost, because you can pinpoint your location on the map withou any navigation, at least if your device can handle the local system :-).
I use both 'paper' maps and GPS (Memory Map) for hill walking, Green laning, simply wandering! and interchange as required between paper and phone as necessary, phone (Google maps/Waze) in the Car/Landrover mostly, paper for simplicity and walking. In both situations one is a backup for the other.
Great points as a Geologist who grew up using okd school topo maps it makes sense. Without that knowledge the map on your screen doesnt make much sense.
I dont think it matters a topo map is the same whether its a digital copy or a paper copy. The important thing is being able to read it and visualize the landscape in 3 d
I still like to use a map and compass; not only to be able to choose my own route but also because at brew o'clock / lunchtime i like to open the map up and compare it with the surrounding area - naming of peaks / looking at possible future routes., things like that This is easier for me with a map, rather than scrolling around a wee screen. On top of that, I think using map and compass keeps the mind sharp. GPS are extremely useful, and i carry a basic one as a security blanket in winter to help in whiteouts. However, i do fall into the 'old' category, and still think map and compass are cool...
I lost my gps when my phone died after a dunking. I spent a night in the open after getting lost. Nowadays I am a qualified seaman and have learned to read charts and to navigate without GPS. I still use and love tech, but a basic knowledge of manual navigation can be a lifesaver.
When I was younger I did some off track walking in Australia. It is nice to be able to look at a map and decide that this a possible route, we will go across and down a spur to get to a creek and waterfall, and then we will head up the creek, and if it gets too difficult then there is a spur we can head up on. One of teh problems people do seem to be having is that they can't recognise this on their GPS, so they just keep trying routes that don't exist.
It's not just about way finding but also about enjoying being in the landscape as opposed to merely traversing across it. With map reading skills you can look at the land around you and put names to features, get ideas about things to explore, where to go to find the best views, where to find shelter when the weather gets too spicy.
As practice shoving us here in Ukraine, you can't use gps as your primary navigation. In situation when people use a lot of drones, we can meet spoofing of gps signal or total blocking of some radio/gps/mobile frequencies. You can meet the situation in some areas in the forest, that you don't have any signal, so the normal paper map, compass and correct mention of your start possition is very importaint option.
I use sheet maps for transit studies in cities and for general planning of a holiday. A sheet map lets me see the entire region and store that idea in my head. Then when I'm riding the 49B eastbound I already know that we cross with a 111South that will take me to .... The same must apply to rambling. If I have studied the sheet map ahead of time, then I'll know that walking down any local stream will take me to the railway line and civilization. A sheet map lodges itself in my head and gives me the broad view I need not to get lost.
Learning to manage the abstractions of 2D orthogonal maps, north-south orientation, and your environment creates a fully comprehensible situational awareness that GPS will never give you.
You and your cans of worms. My argument is both a 'scare tactic' and a 'be reasonable and be prepared' tactic. Calling map reading skills a 'superpower' is a form of enticement appealing to people's hubris, I think. It can turn people off, particularly if the 'superpower' is flaunted over the less skilled. I enjoy watching your videos because there is so much to learn, even if it is only a refresher of what has been shaded by lack of practice on my part. Being able to read a map, to decipher its numerous symbols, is a skill that places that person at a level of confidence that surpasses that average person who simply looks at point a and point b. Combined with compass skill and star navigation, we can relate to explorers and map makers, who actually saw the landscape as it is. Nature has so much to offer. Explorers, outdoor adventurers (fishermen, hunters, geologists, orienteering enthusiasts,), and professional outdoors people all rely on map and compass skills first and foremost, the GPS is but a convenience to verify location and time travelled. Well, that's my rant. Hope no one was scared by it.
Gotta hand it to the guy. I use an outdoor GPS, but even the most niche maps can be off here or there. Map quality can go from "spot on" to "wtf" in a few meters. Making sense of what's on the map and what's around you can spare you and other people from wasting hours, taking bad decisions, bad routes and so on. Take a navigation course and buy both map and gps gear, you'll thank yourself someday...
I can't even truly rely on my phone maps in an urban setting. Goodness know how I would get on in open areas such as you traverse. It is definitely worth having a proper up to date map. Having said that, my OS map of Malhamdale is some 35 years old now. But, the footpaths and geological information has not changed . I would still take the map.
As far as I remember, the Footprint maps we used to hike along the West Highlands Way had useful information on location's risks during things rapid weather change (e.g. Ben Nevis had temperature fall to 2°C in August, seemingly good sides for an overnight camp flooded within hours, the old military road which is an easy hike won't be visible in valleys when swamped and covered in dense fog). This can be life saving information. While other sources like tourist informations and locals could provide that, it seems a good start to have maps for _hiking_ esp. as a beginner who doesn't know what to research beforehand -- navigation is just one aspect.
A route guide will tell you just as much. Read the evening before and just follow the line of the GPS watch to make sure you follow the military road. (In fact, we’ve hiked half of the Cape Wrath Trail on a GPS watch. Which is a bit ‘different’ route than WHW… On WHW you don’t even need any navigation.) Also knowing where to camp shouldn’t be just based on given information, but should also be a skill obtained by heading out in the outdoors. For example: the camp location up Inveroran Hotel along the WHW is a DANGEROUS location since it’s right next to the river. You NEED to camp higher up and not so close to the river…
There's nothing more disorienting than waking up on a canoe trip to a foggy day. Even a cloudy day will mess you up if you're in a maze of islands. In the canoeing "community" you'd be mocked for relying solely on a GPS. For hikers though, I feel like it's the difference between people who want to build knowledge and be self reliant, vs people that don't care to learn. Just going for the quick pay off... And that's certainly okay if it's the first couple of times out. But at some point I would think a person would want to know how to rely on themselves. It's no fun just following a blip on a hand held computer and satellite system. There's no personal development. What kind of outdoors person isn't interested in understanding their surroundings and the way through them? Of course, if you have the knowledge already then a GPS is fine for ease, but you can't tell me it's not more rewarding when one does the navigating themselves.
A paper map is always a good idea. Colored stickers to lay out your route helps guide your eye to the route on the map. Also, when you are stopped by someone who asks about your route, you can show the paper map. This shows you are not lost or disoriented.
I have the land ranger map for the dales but it’s huge, I only need about 1/20th at a time but I’m loathe to cut it into smaller sections. I can colour photocopy the bits I need I suppose - what do the professionals do ?
@@Gunnarhappystick I take photos of the map on my cell phone which can be enlarged by stretching the face of the phone. I also use CalTopo as a map source. Print out the part of the map I'm most interested in.
OS maps loaded into a gps device BUT bring a printed copy of it. Os maps has the option to do this. I use gps on longer walks where I want a decent pace. I usually spend a lot of time studying the map of the route on a computer, then I draw on the route I planned on my paper map. I find that way I get to know what I'm looking for when I'm in the hills
I do use my OS map app on my phone when leading lowland walks and sometimes HM walks, I plan the route on the pc and its on my phone as well but always take a map and compass with me.
Go out to an area you sort of know, into the fields with a map and compass and navigate your way around. Take a dedicated GPS device with you (not just a phone) for back up. Step count how many steps it takes to move from a landmark to another.
The background photos may have been taken where people have been saying but, on my screen and to my eyes, this was filmed in a studio with the pictures dropped in in post
I love tech, but I would never bet my life on it, 100% of the time. The moment you need gps, your battery fails, the satellites get moved to somewhere else in the world, the signal is interrupted, in other words, murphy shows up. Learn to read a map and use a compass. It is life saving.
Id learn the basics of map and compass reading just to learn something. Like cooking. The joy of the art. Also in edge cases where phones die or there is no signal it would mean the difference between life and death. Knowing you COULD look after yourself in that scenario is just a fun thing to imagine. Not quite prepping because the buy in is so low. Just an old art.
The first point you made, about the GPS app just showing a map, means the map and compass are obsolete because the phone IS a map and compass and you use it in essentially the same way. Everything after that was basically non-sequiturs. The phone doesn't know the weather, or who is afraid of heights? Ok. Does the paper map know that? No. Nothing has been lost. Honestly I would say that concerns about battery and such are much more valid that anything put forth in this video.
I tend to mostly do long distance off road bikepacking these days. Not practical to bring a paper map for each area we ride through so use a phone and apple watch mostly and download maps. Always have power banks too. So, always have 2 methods of navigation. If out in a smaller area I take a map. Being proficient with a paper map is still very important in my opinion. 😀
Saya sangat setuju dengan apa yang anda katakan Salam Dari Indonesia Saya adalah Pramuka dan seorang land nav enthusiast, beberapa video anda memberi kan pencerahan kepada saya Terima kasih banyak, video video anda sangat menginspirasi
I love those "I do not care, I just smile"-guys. I would say with the newest generation of like Garmin Nav watches you do not need a physical map an compass. But there are offline maps and you have to know how your watch works! So if you enjoy developing a skill like oldschool land navigation- - > go for it. If you go with pareto principal then invest a few days knowing how your watch works. You will be good in 98 percent of the time (and if your data does not get spoofed). Do you still have to know how a river looks on a map or what topographic line are? Pretty sure 😊
1) Reading a map is an essential skill: bus maps, road maps, land maps, tidal maps, n so on. E number of ppl who need 2 work 2 read a bus map is disheartening. Best way 2 learn 2 read a map is to use it. N just following GPS blindly leads to: 2) GPS is not always right. Not just bc it sometimes gives e wrong instructions, but a bridge might b out, a tree may hav fallen, a river may b 2 dangerous 2 cross, n so on. If GPS is telling u 2 walk off a cliff, well... It's good 2 have options.
I as a sailing instructor and canoeist am very used to navigate by hand but intrestingly its getting increasingly difficult to get good terain maps.... Here in austria one can still get quite a good aray of hiking maps for the alps but on my last trip to sweden for an extented canoe trip it turned out to be impssible to get paper maps of the area we paddled.... I endet up using rather rudimentary tourist maps lacking details snd my phone... Luckily we managed to keep our phones charged for the two weeks we where out there via solar panels and had good coverage all the time but i still felt quite uneasy not having proper maps of the area with me in case something went wrong with our phones....
My brother and sister are up in the mountains every week without a map and compass, both alone with just their GPSs, i think they are both mad and have told them so, i myself am in my fifties and always use map, compass and tally counter with the gps just as a backup that rarely gets used
Former Land Surveyor here (Someone who used transit machines, both GPS and analog, to create the maps people use). Under NO circumstances should anyone ever place full trust in a GPS unit. Even the ones used for professional work can and are wildly inaccurate and unreliable. I never carry GPS as it will be more interested in tracking me than it will be in accurately tracking the topography. Did I mention batteries? Imagine the weight and chore of 10 days in the woods trying to feed the juice when a half ounce map will do yah fine. Anyone new to this realm please take the advice to use your brain and eyes and NEVER think twice about it-
Working with ES I had cause to look for data in respect of incident positions. I was amazed to find so many incidents in the North Sea and Europe (way outside of my local gov's remit!). The cause: GPS and OS map refs data had been incorrectly adjusted to each other becoming, effectively, meaningless ...and worse!
Lets face it, you are never going to get quality waffling from a GPS unit! In all seriousness. A map and compass enhances my experience while outdoors. A GPS can be convenient, but looking at a little screen is far less appealing. Best wishes Al
I had Garmin handhelds for years. Then one day on the release of a new model, the position icon grew so big it practically would cover an entire village ! I gave up with Garmin. Luckily I still kept my older model. I use the OS app on my phone now. But that has limitations. I still carry a compass though. Or an analogue watch
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
In total agreement here. I’m ex military and also a big fan of tech and gps. However if you can’t read a map proficiently, you definitely won’t be able to use gps apps or handhelds properly. I think your channel is brilliant- not just for navigation but for the historic insights. Oh and the sandwiches!! 😎. All the best. Clive.
Agreed entirely, I live within a couple of hours walk from Kinder Scout and have had people with GPS maps on the plateau asking me where they were. What they meant, they wanted to know how to relate the position to the (clearly) visible features around them and where they wanted to go
Of course you can use GPS apps easier than a map. That said, map skills are a must.
Yup. I am in total agreement. I was in charge of a squad of young Army Cadets somewhere near Oakhampton. We were on a march when the fog came down and just by the use of a map and silva compass we managed to get to safety, and a hot cuppa!
P.S. I did have a very early Garmin plotter with me, just in case, but it was a good lesson for the Cadets.
@@barryrayner the beauty of the GPS is that you can’t have the map upside down 👍
I've always regarded GPS as a backup, especially for reassurance and position checking, never as my primary navigational tool. Very thoughtful insights. Thank you!
I am the same
Yes same, often use it to self check after asking myself 'that' question...are we there ??. Great training aid.
I don't trust gps, I know it's supposed to have come a long way. At least a map and compass doesn't have a battery to go flat
I'm a fell runner so love navigation, in Wales GPS is still banned in all fell races as it should be and I hope that never changes. Living in Snowdonia I come across lots of people using GPS on their phones, but to be fair they stare at the screens with a confused look on their faces the majority of the time, I've found the way people explore has been massively effected, because on the whole most hikers simply don't explore any more, most follow a pre-set route they loaded into their app the day before, and this has changed Snowdonia at least, as now more than ever before, people walk the same paths up the same mountains over and over, meaning the traditional busy areas have become much busier and the traditional quieter areas have turned into ghost towns. But one thing which irks me a little is I always have a map in my hand while running as I use the fell running technique where you fold the map and hold it with your thumb marking your last known position, so I find I'm regularly asked by GPS users if they can have a look at my map, and of course I oblige them politely with a smile, but inside I'm thinking "Carry your own bloody map!" 🤣 Rant over, love your videos!
Was on Pavey Ark earlier this year, lovely clear day and two hikers wandered towards me both staring at their phones and occasionally standing still to do a 360. They asked me where the summit was. I said it's the highest point that you can see (we were already on it) and they said thanks and walked away still looking at their phones. I'm not sure what to make of that but it was amusing.
Same answer as why to learn making fire with flint and steel: in order to become proficient, you need to be aware of your surroundings, actively searching for resources, for landmarks, for clues, then you are more aware about a deer, a flower, birds chirping and you will better observe the scenery. I think it is the "being there" that might be lost on the screen.
In practice a battery dying is a very good reason. I nearly had that happen when taking a route where a footbridge was broken, adding an extra 5 miles to my round walk. That's what convinced me to learn map reading.
I learned rudimentary land navigation when I was a soldier in the Canadian artillery. Now, forty years later, I restudy it for fun. It's a great way to keep your brain sharp.
Ok, so a few years ago (possibly more than a few) I used to instruct RYA nav courses, I always commenced the course with a little speech about teaching 17th century nav techniques, even though the candidates envariably would use GPS plotters when ever they set out, but the thing is that good grounding in a skill/technique/knowledge, provided the candidates with support base which allowed further development, I have a machine that can cut dovetail joints... but knowing how to cut them with hand tools makes me a slightly more competent. More power to your elbow sir, let's maintain a skill set which enhances the use of modern tools. thanks for a great channel. happy new year long may you prosper.
Just started learning navigation with map and compass ( at the tender age of 60) thanks to your channel i can see my new super power developing rapidly. Thank you 👍
I learned to navigate using map and compass in the military (Sweden) and the teaching was very similar to your approach. I agree that it gives you independence and map reading skills. My best reason is that the map is larger than the tiny screen on the phone which in bright sunlight is pretty hard to read. GPS has its place and used in a navigator app in a car infotainment system it's superior to the map when you drive alone.
A navigation app in the car is also superior when you’re NOT driving alone… 😉
as someone who uses both maps and phone GPS for navigation in the woods, it's important to understand that your phone uses up battery much faster when you're in areas with no or low service. if you're planning on being outside for many hours, or even days, it starts to become less easy to assume your phone will be available to help you find your way. i always carry a paper map with me as backup, and i pull it out to use for navigation sometimes just to stay practiced at using it. the paper maps have the benefit of being able to show you a much broader area at once, because it's bigger than a phone screen. that comes in handy if you're trying to decide a route that goes a longer distance.
Just an aside here, your phone will not use up more battery if you turn on airplane mode when you're out of range; it'll last a lot longer that way than it does when you're at home or in a city, in fact, as the cellular, wifi, and bluetooth radios will be turned off. GPS will work fine but you need a good offline app to use with them.
We spend a lot of time outdoors camping in wilderness or remote areas. We look for wild orchids, berries and mushrooms all of which lead us away from the beaten path. We do a lot of remote canoe trips. A few years back, I got lost in the dark on a lake searching for a remote campsite. I had a poor map and a bad compass. Yes I had a phone but it was dead. This was my motivation to see if I could brush up on my map and compass skills. I was very happy to find your u tube channel. Definitely the most useful and entertaining. LONG LIVE THE WAFFLE! Yes I use a map app on my phone but there's nothing like the sense of security that comes from having skills with a map and compass.
I take part in multi-day/night adventure races whereby gps devices of any kind are not allowed. Map and compass only. Your channel has been absolutely invaluable as a tool to brush-up on my navigational skills. Keep up the great work😊👍
I have been a map nerd since I was a child. My father was a conservationist for the government and always had maps around. Learning more about them in school made me enjoy them all the more. In my early adulthood I got to use maps professionally working for an ambulance service. It has always struck me as odd that some people do not know how to read maps, or grasp the concept of navigating. I believe those people lose out on understanding a lot about the local environment and lay of the land. Just following the commands given to you by a small box doesn't teach much.
I am ex Navy Surveyor and I know to read a Navigation Chart. I am also a mountaineer and trekker and I am not that good a map reader and that why I subscribed to you. I love how simply you explain things. We use google maps here in India and 25% of time that will lead you to a blind alley or bad road. Its cool to be able to read a physical map and find your way, especially when you are hiking deep in the mountains. OSMaps are far better than GMap.
GPS is an amazing tool. I'd love to see you do some videos about using it alongside a map and compass. I did this the other day, I saw a mountain in the distance and was wondering what it was. I was able to take an accurate bearing of the mountain with my sighting compass, and then in my gps app draw a 25 mile line from my location in that direction. It went right over my mystery mountain. I don't carry a map that shows stuff 20 miles away and my phone is bad at taking accurate bearings, so in that case, gps app and compass was a great combo.
In fact a compass and a map are technology as well. Navigating can also be done without these tools. Even though it would be much harder.
For example: I’ve been riding my bicycle through half of South America back when I was 23. At some point the only thing my map told me was that I would be entering an unpaved ‘road’. No villages, no clue of altitude. I could see a river on the map though, so I knew there would be hills/mountains at both sides. (Also I was in the Andes, which also helps to determine this…) Instead of turning back, in Spanish I asked locals for help in a village. In fact, they gave me help without me even asking for it. I was able to write on a piece of paper the names of the next villages. In between the names I would use arrows to indicate if it would be mainly going up or mainly going down (pointing top right or bottom right). If there wasn’t an agreement between the locals themselves, I would just write a horizontal arrow between the village names. This way I was able to locate the next villages and able to decide where (and when) to stay for the night. The map was useless that day. Local language was very helpful that day, as it allowed me to be welcomed as the first tourist ever in Cajamarquilla (somewhere between Catac and Ocros in Peru.) “Don’t worry though. Terrorist organisation Sendero Luminoso has been eliminated/chased away around 5 years ago”, the mayor of Cajamarquilla told me in Spanish. Quite remarkable btw for a village which was only accessible by foot or donkey until a few months prior, and which had 1 telephone at the local shop for the whole village of around 100 houses. (Back in 2004 they didn’t have tv or cell phones in this village. Let alone internet…)
Furthermore, these days digital maps will give you a 3D picture of the area. The app MapOut for example (no affiliation whatsoever) does this. No need to guess wether the altitude lines on the map are going up or down. Also, with MapOut I can entirely draw the route myself. Even for water based adventures. (Using the freeform drawing tool of the app.) You can load a track and then alter the track itself with your own fingers. Yes, you read that right. I have also loaded a GPX full of water tap waypoints. If I need water I can turn on this layer and then I can turn it off again. I have also loaded a GPX full of shelters in Germany, which I can turn on or off. The cycle routes of various countries can be turned on or off to ease route planning (cycle routes are usually more scenic and therefore logical to follow). Same goes for hiking routes.
There’s a lot more to navigation apps nowadays than just let it calculate a route and show a route or track.
And I haven’t even started on navigation with a watch. Battery life around one whole week when navigating and logging a track at the same time. (After all: “if it isn’t on Strava, it didn’t happen!” 😉)
Yip I have a masters degree in GIS and Remote sensing. being able to change layers and view streets and trails then switch to aerial image and 3D image gives way more information. Garmin InReach/EPERB does not matter where you are in the world you can communicate with rescuers and get outside assistance. Just relying on map and compass is risky there are many things that can affect compass readings. All mobile phones have build in compasses that also give lat and long. An outdoor watch that has compass, GPS, altitude and barometer is giving more detail including weather.
Your preaching to the converted. Yes, i was in the military. Very well explained. All the best for the New Year.😊
The skill of using a map and compass to navigate connects you to your surroundings in a way that GPS equipment never will.
I use a GPS device to log my distance travelled, average speed, time on the move and to check my coordinates if needed.
I find it more fun to use a map and compass than a GPS.
Putting 100% reliance on one method of navigation is risky...the further out you go the more risky doing that is..whether its electric or paper. I have seen paper maps get lost or somehow get wet and disintegrate over miles in a backpack. Having more then one source for navigation is a wise idea. A compass and paper map are great skills to learn and one could argue learning to use modern navigation systems in this age are also great skills to learn.
13 years ago, I went on a 5-day bike trip to Paris with a route booklet and without mobile internet. I took a simple baseplate compass 'just in case', but ended up using it all the time. It became second nature to use it and I brought it with me on many subsequent trips. It did however mean stopping at many a crossroads. Using a GPS device, as I do these days, does take some charm away, but it allows for significantly more kilometers per average day. Still, being able to use a compass is a great skill to have.
Apart from your great argument that map reading skills are simply a superpower, the best I can imagine is that electronic GPS aids are only conceivable in an advanced form of a "guiding light", which explains all the data to the user on his mobile phone and guides him/her through the digital map. But this application will not come for a long time because it is not economically viable. Nobody will invest money in development if it doesn't pay off. The military perhaps? Until then, the map and compass will remain irreplaceable. I think...
It will need you, Wayne! Show us that superpower :)
Sun glare and rain are a nightmare for smart phones. They become really difficult to use.
Never had a problem with sun or rain with my iPhone or my Samsung.
@SpudUna higher end screens are pretty good with sun glare but every touch screen no matter how posh the phone I've used is useless when wet.
@@leejohnson3209 I agree on useless when wet. I live in the Lake District so I’m familiar with wet. But it is possible, even in heavy rain, to operate a phone.
Land navigation is FUN! It’s also miles more than anything GPS can replace. GPS might give you a fix, but can it help you make decisions, route choices, navigation strategies? Land navigation is much more than “where am I now?” More to the point, land navigation is a vital part of how human brains evolved and using those skills keeps us alert and smart as human beings. Did I also mention, ITS FUN! What other reason would you have to go out on wild nights and low visibility days to find some obscure features and have an adventure on the way? GPS is ok as a backup, like a dictionary for once you have completed the crossword. But for goodness sake, don’t just look up every clue! Journeys are about the journey. Don’t miss out on learning and using land navigation!
When I was in my 20s (in the 1980s) I learned to use map and compass to navigate in wilderness areas of California. Even with the advent of GPS apps/devices, I still use paper maps and compass (a Suunto I've had since 1984). I find that this "old school" method of land nav helps me stay more aware of my surroundings; which helps me enjoy my time in backcountry areas.
Retired military here, and I can't tell you the number of times people who should have known better went wrong with GPS. I don't even use it unless it's to make a position.
Yes, but people with maps can get it wrong very quickly too. I’m thinking Officers! 😂
@@andygilbert1877 Oh God, we could spend waaaay too much time on that! LOL!
@@unclejohnbulleit2671 😂😂😂
I also agree. Maps help develop spatial awareness, an expression you don't often hear, but it's something that makes being out in the country, or even planning a day out in the car so much more rewarding. I live near where two National Trials cross, and never cease to be amazed by the number of people who either stop me and ask me where they are, or look totally lost so I stop to help, and I find that they are trying to use a phone and are heading in the wrong direction, or sometimes are simply on the wrong path mile from where they want to be.
I use a GPS on my hikes because I find it hard to get good maps of the areas where I hike. Would love another video on the history of the building you where near. Amazing stone work .
Thanks!
Thank you Ray, I really do appreciate it.
I'm an old guy that still has a problem with the new technology GPS. I use it on occasion but I still prefer to carry a good paper map. From America thanks for your efforts. Wish I had you as an instructor in the Boy Scouts and the Marines back in1960's and 70's.
Well I am very keen on all related to navigation by map and compass for the same reason I am very keen on film photography and darkroom developing. And it is not because I can't use or don't have an iphone , gps and a digital camera. It's just more fun.
Happy New Year Wayne!
Hi Wayne!! You will never be replaced!!! You’re way too awesome!!! You’re the reason why I love your channel and content!!! I have learned so much from you, have applied your knowledge and skills and it’s an awesome feeling!!! You’re an awesome inspiration and amazing teacher!! We love you!!! Thank you so much!!! Strength and honor my friend be well!! Merry Christmas and happy new year!!🎊🎊🎉🎉👍🏿❤️💯💯 from Washington state 🇺🇸
This debate is also often heard between water sports practitioners. The GPS vs map/chart and compass.
Using both in tandem is good practice (Regulations expect mariners to use all available means to be sure of position).
Using a chart plotter (or even just a phone) is very convenient but enxourages lazy habits The authorities would hope that navigators plot gps derived positions onto paper at intervals.
In an incident enquiry a passage plan and trip details in the log could be used in evidence.
As for celestial, the US navy is said to have changed direction sharply of late.
It had reduced the watch level of qualified to a very low level until someone twigged that even the most robust system could fail. (The "Iranian kid in his bedroom with a laptop" kind of thing)
Now apparently the Navy have resumed earlier levels which is i think one qualified on the bridge on every watch.
Good job they realised before it was too late - that a pencil and eraser are key tools in navigational practice.
This series by The Map Reading Co is excellent and is highly entertaining.
GPS is my primary, because I don't go places where getting lost is life-threatening. If I did then I'd absolutely also take a map and a compass. I don't want to die because I dropped my phone...
Why is dropping a phone such a big risk compared to dropping a compass. Phones can have lanyards and take a spare charging battery.
I’m both old (66) and (ex) military. I learned to map read as a child (The Cubs) in the 1960’s, more detailed navigation in the early 1970’s, and honed my skill as a Mortar Fire Controller where map reading is a CRITICAL skill. I still prefer maps, I still have my issued 7” protractor R.A.!
I love map reading. Even today I find nothing more exciting than using back bearings to pinpoint exactly where I am (yeah…I know…sad) and to show me what the land actually looks like in order to select the safest, easiest route.
Long May maps exist!
I think of navigation like learning a language or how to spell. GPS is like MS word spell check, a dictionary is like a map and compass, but the ultimate goal is learning to spell perfectly without aid. Map and compass are still a type of crutch like GPS. For me, the ultimate goal is to be able to memorize a map (trails, topography, water, etc) and an internal compass (by which I mean you’re always aware of your orientation relative to your surroundings; not that you can close your eyes, spin wildly around, and point north with your eyes still closed). Using a map and compass is the easiest way I’ve found to start to internalize those skills (traveling an area extensively and building your own maps is the best way). Using GPS alone is never going to get you to start memorizing a map or building perfect sense of direction, although it is the best way I’ve found of testing my ability to pinpoint exactly where I am.
I always take a compass in my first aid kit, as I have used it when bushwhacking to stay on a heading or worst case in white out conditions, but I don’t always take a map, as I am usually backpacking in areas I have a memorized map.
I never get lost, my wife always tells me where to go 😂😂
I have a Garmin GPS device ( Etrex 35t) with full Uk maps installed (talkie Toaster) , I plot my route using my computer/ tablet using free software and download it to my device ( including escape routes) but I also learnt to use a map and compass too.
I agree. Total reliance on electronics is convenient, but maps provide a certain spatial awareness of your surroundings in your head, which is essential for me. Even with electronics in the bushes, I still lke to reference the maps also, for this reason. It adds more dimension for me.
I teach map reading and navigation as part of a rather specialised training course that involves making sketch maps of possible work sites.
I’ve found that today most people have no idea of ‘space’. However teaching them how a map works enables them to produce site sketches.
If you believe in backing up critical gear then you want to take both. And relying on map and compass at any point in your system means you need to be proficient with it. And that means it should be your primary means of navigating while hiking in order to grow and maintain your skill, and to conserve your GPS/phone battery. The only reason not to use map and compass is to save a bit of time, and if you're trying to rush to your destination while recreating in nature then you're doing it wrong.
Recreate 🤔 what are you making.
@@alangordon3283 Recreate has two meanings. One is to create again, the other is to take leisure
You can use a GPS watch for following a line on a screen. The phone in airplane mode can be used for a broader sense of the surroundings with an offline map. The paper map and compass are for backup. Since you’re looking at the surroundings and a (digital) map anyway, it wouldn’t matter a lot to change from the digital map to the paper map when needed (battery dies or it rains so much that the phone screen becomes unusable).
@@EhWahEhWahEhWah Sure, but see my point about learning and practicing skills. Using GPS as primary means you aren't getting that. If you're already an expert from years in the military or something, then sure you probably don't need to practice. But the rest of us do.
That said, we would still probably be ok by taking our time and playing it safe. We're just talking about a few percentage points in the worst situations. See his videos on advanced nav at night, in rain/fog, etc.
The practice of traditional Land Navigation give us the mental skill to build a virtual reality in our own mind, just like reading a novel. When you face the real world it's very easy to correct the mental model and take actions if something suddenly change. The machine hasn't that skill and surely doesn't face danger as well. We should cherish the huge human work and knowledge built into a map.
You can't plan a route on a screen when all small roads and details keep disappearing when you zoom out
That is definitely an issue I found with os maps on my phone
Advantages and disadvantages to both technologies. Paper maps can be outdated. A digital map allows one to quickly calculate a (hiking/cycling) route and then refine it to their preference. When on the go it will be easy to deviate from the intended route with the digital map. When the navigation app skips a certain path, one should be asking himself why. Perhaps it doesn’t link to another path and that could be why it’s not part of the automated route. Which could be interesting for bikerafting or packrafting of course…
In both cases one depends on the details of the map. No difference whatsoever.
Sussed from the first frame you were quite local at rivington.
Personally, I get a little “buzz” from (nearly) always knowing where I am on a map.
But having recently done some technically difficult orienteering events, there’s room for improvement.😂
That IS fine navigation.
Love the channel.
The path at the side of Pigeon nailed it for me.
There is great satisfaction and joy in using a map and compass and having mastered the skills to do so effectively over using an electronic device. For me its a big part of what makes hiking so enjoyable. Its a bit like reading a real book over listening to an audio-book online. A map encourages you to look around and be very aware of the landscape around you instead of having eyes glued to a screen. One of the reasons for hiking is to get back to nature and away from electronic devices and also develop your inherent skills.
2:30 "...you can lose a map and a compass..." One of my pet hates is seeing someone with their compass tied onto their mapcase - lose one: lose both!
I was with a group that insisted on using phones only, which I wasn’t opposed to. However, there was a bit of an "aha" moment during a discussion about where to go next on a day hike. Half a dozen people were huddled around a phone screen. I unfolded my map of the area, oriented it to the terrain, and invited the group to join me. Once they saw how much clearer everything became and appreciated the broader situational awareness a map provides, they stopped poking fun at my map. GPS and paper maps should compliment each other, not be mutually exclusive.
The main thing in the outdoors is to know where the identifiable bounds are such as river, road ,Ridgeline, power lines etc and how they relate to never getting lost
Thank You good Sir for all of your knowledge shared to the whole world!
This video made me want to go out and use some new map on some new location.
Thanks.
During a mountaineering course we practiced map reading as well. Interestingly, I found map reading much more difficult in mountainous terrain. To 'map' the mountains you're seeing around you at various distances to a bunch of contour lines on a maps is not easy!
I assume you mean paper maps? Phone apps can 3D visualise the contour lines for you. Much faster and easier!
I just like maps and old school skills.
The more interesting question is: Where did you film this video? Looks like a very interesting destination.
www.rivingtonterracedgardens.org.uk/what-to-see-and-do/the-pigeon-tower/
@@TheMapReadingCompany Thanks!
As I am a bit older, I grew up without GPS. Therefore I am already firm with maps, and I still prefer them. With sailing GPS is very convenient, but you still need a map. The disadvantage of chart plotters and GPS handhelds is, that you have no survey, and you cannot write on them. Of course, I have a GPS, the Garmin 67, and I use it rather often, but for micronavigation, where 1:25.000 is too small. That is in residential areas, or when many places simply post their coordinates on the internet instead of more or less cryptic charts. Another useful function is, that you can log your trail for further usage. But that can be obtained with a simple GPS logger the size of a USB stick. I got one, too, such things are not sold anymore, and it is a nice insurance, when actually lost, because you can pinpoint your location on the map withou any navigation, at least if your device can handle the local system :-).
Fully agree tks for all the info and history insights great channel ☘️
I use both 'paper' maps and GPS (Memory Map) for hill walking, Green laning, simply wandering! and interchange as required between paper and phone as necessary, phone (Google maps/Waze) in the Car/Landrover mostly, paper for simplicity and walking. In both situations one is a backup for the other.
GPS is in the pack.....map and compass skills are the bread and butter of being an outdoors man....Sergeant Instructor APTC Rick Carey
Great points as a Geologist who grew up using okd school topo maps it makes sense. Without that knowledge the map on your screen doesnt make much sense.
But would it matter if you would learn this skill with the help of a digital map versus a paper map?
I dont think it matters a topo map is the same whether its a digital copy or a paper copy. The important thing is being able to read it and visualize the landscape in 3 d
I still like to use a map and compass; not only to be able to choose my own route but also because at brew o'clock / lunchtime i like to open the map up and compare it with the surrounding area - naming of peaks / looking at possible future routes., things like that This is easier for me with a map, rather than scrolling around a wee screen. On top of that, I think using map and compass keeps the mind sharp. GPS are extremely useful, and i carry a basic one as a security blanket in winter to help in whiteouts. However, i do fall into the 'old' category, and still think map and compass are cool...
I lost my gps when my phone died after a dunking. I spent a night in the open after getting lost. Nowadays I am a qualified seaman and have learned to read charts and to navigate without GPS. I still use and love tech, but a basic knowledge of manual navigation can be a lifesaver.
When I was younger I did some off track walking in Australia. It is nice to be able to look at a map and decide that this a possible route, we will go across and down a spur to get to a creek and waterfall, and then we will head up the creek, and if it gets too difficult then there is a spur we can head up on. One of teh problems people do seem to be having is that they can't recognise this on their GPS, so they just keep trying routes that don't exist.
It's not just about way finding but also about enjoying being in the landscape as opposed to merely traversing across it. With map reading skills you can look at the land around you and put names to features, get ideas about things to explore, where to go to find the best views, where to find shelter when the weather gets too spicy.
2:07 "15 years ago phone batteries barely lasted a day..."
the Nokia 3310 in my drawer wants to have a word with you...
Where is this place? Where was this filmed?
Rivington, near Chorley, Lancs
. It's a great area with Rivington Pike, Winter Hill and Great Hill all superb walking areas
As practice shoving us here in Ukraine, you can't use gps as your primary navigation. In situation when people use a lot of drones, we can meet spoofing of gps signal or total blocking of some radio/gps/mobile frequencies. You can meet the situation in some areas in the forest, that you don't have any signal, so the normal paper map, compass and correct mention of your start possition is very importaint option.
I use sheet maps for transit studies in cities and for general planning of a holiday. A sheet map lets me see the entire region and store that idea in my head. Then when I'm riding the 49B eastbound I already know that we cross with a 111South that will take me to .... The same must apply to rambling. If I have studied the sheet map ahead of time, then I'll know that walking down any local stream will take me to the railway line and civilization. A sheet map lodges itself in my head and gives me the broad view I need not to get lost.
Learning to manage the abstractions of 2D orthogonal maps, north-south orientation, and your environment creates a fully comprehensible situational awareness that GPS will never give you.
You and your cans of worms. My argument is both a 'scare tactic' and a 'be reasonable and be prepared' tactic. Calling map reading skills a 'superpower' is a form of enticement appealing to people's hubris, I think. It can turn people off, particularly if the 'superpower' is flaunted over the less skilled.
I enjoy watching your videos because there is so much to learn, even if it is only a refresher of what has been shaded by lack of practice on my part. Being able to read a map, to decipher its numerous symbols, is a skill that places that person at a level of confidence that surpasses that average person who simply looks at point a and point b. Combined with compass skill and star navigation, we can relate to explorers and map makers, who actually saw the landscape as it is. Nature has so much to offer. Explorers, outdoor adventurers (fishermen, hunters, geologists, orienteering enthusiasts,), and professional outdoors people all rely on map and compass skills first and foremost, the GPS is but a convenience to verify location and time travelled.
Well, that's my rant. Hope no one was scared by it.
Gotta hand it to the guy. I use an outdoor GPS, but even the most niche maps can be off here or there. Map quality can go from "spot on" to "wtf" in a few meters. Making sense of what's on the map and what's around you can spare you and other people from wasting hours, taking bad decisions, bad routes and so on. Take a navigation course and buy both map and gps gear, you'll thank yourself someday...
I can't even truly rely on my phone maps in an urban setting. Goodness know how I would get on in open areas such as you traverse. It is definitely worth having a proper up to date map. Having said that, my OS map of Malhamdale is some 35 years old now. But, the footpaths and geological information has not changed . I would still take the map.
As far as I remember, the Footprint maps we used to hike along the West Highlands Way had useful information on location's risks during things rapid weather change (e.g. Ben Nevis had temperature fall to 2°C in August, seemingly good sides for an overnight camp flooded within hours, the old military road which is an easy hike won't be visible in valleys when swamped and covered in dense fog). This can be life saving information. While other sources like tourist informations and locals could provide that, it seems a good start to have maps for _hiking_ esp. as a beginner who doesn't know what to research beforehand -- navigation is just one aspect.
A route guide will tell you just as much. Read the evening before and just follow the line of the GPS watch to make sure you follow the military road. (In fact, we’ve hiked half of the Cape Wrath Trail on a GPS watch. Which is a bit ‘different’ route than WHW… On WHW you don’t even need any navigation.) Also knowing where to camp shouldn’t be just based on given information, but should also be a skill obtained by heading out in the outdoors. For example: the camp location up Inveroran Hotel along the WHW is a DANGEROUS location since it’s right next to the river. You NEED to camp higher up and not so close to the river…
You are correct, Sir.
All these basic skills help with critical thinking skills. Able to take information around you and make a decision.
There's nothing more disorienting than waking up on a canoe trip to a foggy day. Even a cloudy day will mess you up if you're in a maze of islands. In the canoeing "community" you'd be mocked for relying solely on a GPS.
For hikers though, I feel like it's the difference between people who want to build knowledge and be self reliant, vs people that don't care to learn. Just going for the quick pay off... And that's certainly okay if it's the first couple of times out. But at some point I would think a person would want to know how to rely on themselves. It's no fun just following a blip on a hand held computer and satellite system. There's no personal development. What kind of outdoors person isn't interested in understanding their surroundings and the way through them? Of course, if you have the knowledge already then a GPS is fine for ease, but you can't tell me it's not more rewarding when one does the navigating themselves.
A paper map is always a good idea. Colored stickers to lay out your route helps guide your eye to the route on the map. Also, when you are stopped by someone who asks about your route, you can show the paper map. This shows you are not lost or disoriented.
I have the land ranger map for the dales but it’s huge, I only need about 1/20th at a time but I’m loathe to cut it into smaller sections. I can colour photocopy the bits I need I suppose - what do the professionals do ?
We do this.
ua-cam.com/video/dLaYJQ_qlTg/v-deo.html
@@TheMapReadingCompany very useful - removing the cardboard was the key !!
@@Gunnarhappystick I take photos of the map on my cell phone which can be enlarged by stretching the face of the phone. I also use CalTopo as a map source. Print out the part of the map I'm most interested in.
@@StevenTorrey thanks - not sure how I overlay a silva compass onto a phone but good advice
OS maps loaded into a gps device BUT bring a printed copy of it. Os maps has the option to do this. I use gps on longer walks where I want a decent pace. I usually spend a lot of time studying the map of the route on a computer, then I draw on the route I planned on my paper map. I find that way I get to know what I'm looking for when I'm in the hills
I do use my OS map app on my phone when leading lowland walks and sometimes HM walks, I plan the route on the pc and its on my phone as well but always take a map and compass with me.
Go out to an area you sort of know, into the fields with a map and compass and navigate your way around.
Take a dedicated GPS device with you (not just a phone) for back up.
Step count how many steps it takes to move from a landmark to another.
A good multi function gshock with compass is valuable. A Breitling rescue is good too but it does lose distance in high mountains.
The background photos may have been taken where people have been saying but, on my screen and to my eyes, this was filmed in a studio with the pictures dropped in in post
I watch off-road recovery (towing) channels. They make a fair amount of work by pulling tourists in rental cars out of places GPS led them into.
I love tech, but I would never bet my life on it, 100% of the time. The moment you need gps, your battery fails, the satellites get moved to somewhere else in the world, the signal is interrupted, in other words, murphy shows up. Learn to read a map and use a compass. It is life saving.
We climbed Ben Nevis last year and according to my phone we were in the car park all day
Id learn the basics of map and compass reading just to learn something. Like cooking. The joy of the art. Also in edge cases where phones die or there is no signal it would mean the difference between life and death. Knowing you COULD look after yourself in that scenario is just a fun thing to imagine. Not quite prepping because the buy in is so low. Just an old art.
The first point you made, about the GPS app just showing a map, means the map and compass are obsolete because the phone IS a map and compass and you use it in essentially the same way.
Everything after that was basically non-sequiturs. The phone doesn't know the weather, or who is afraid of heights? Ok. Does the paper map know that? No. Nothing has been lost.
Honestly I would say that concerns about battery and such are much more valid that anything put forth in this video.
👍👍👍 .. Basics.
And it can be fun too.
I tend to mostly do long distance off road bikepacking these days. Not practical to bring a paper map for each area we ride through so use a phone and apple watch mostly and download maps. Always have power banks too. So, always have 2 methods of navigation.
If out in a smaller area I take a map. Being proficient with a paper map is still very important in my opinion. 😀
I use a map and compass the batteries never runs down in them
You are my hero!! Have you ever been to Patagonia, Argentina?
No, sorry I have not.
Don't put all your eggs in one basket, a map gives you a big picture , personal choice.
Saya sangat setuju dengan apa yang anda katakan
Salam Dari Indonesia
Saya adalah Pramuka dan seorang land nav enthusiast, beberapa video anda memberi kan pencerahan kepada saya
Terima kasih banyak, video video anda sangat menginspirasi
I love those "I do not care, I just smile"-guys. I would say with the newest generation of like Garmin Nav watches you do not need a physical map an compass. But there are offline maps and you have to know how your watch works! So if you enjoy developing a skill like oldschool land navigation- - > go for it. If you go with pareto principal then invest a few days knowing how your watch works. You will be good in 98 percent of the time (and if your data does not get spoofed). Do you still have to know how a river looks on a map or what topographic line are? Pretty sure 😊
1) Reading a map is an essential skill: bus maps, road maps, land maps, tidal maps, n so on. E number of ppl who need 2 work 2 read a bus map is disheartening. Best way 2 learn 2 read a map is to use it. N just following GPS blindly leads to:
2) GPS is not always right. Not just bc it sometimes gives e wrong instructions, but a bridge might b out, a tree may hav fallen, a river may b 2 dangerous 2 cross, n so on. If GPS is telling u 2 walk off a cliff, well... It's good 2 have options.
I as a sailing instructor and canoeist am very used to navigate by hand but intrestingly its getting increasingly difficult to get good terain maps....
Here in austria one can still get quite a good aray of hiking maps for the alps but on my last trip to sweden for an extented canoe trip it turned out to be impssible to get paper maps of the area we paddled....
I endet up using rather rudimentary tourist maps lacking details snd my phone...
Luckily we managed to keep our phones charged for the two weeks we where out there via solar panels and had good coverage all the time but i still felt quite uneasy not having proper maps of the area with me in case something went wrong with our phones....
My brother and sister are up in the mountains every week without a map and compass, both alone with just their GPSs, i think they are both mad and have told them so, i myself am in my fifties and always use map, compass and tally counter with the gps just as a backup that rarely gets used
I hike at night. You can't tell when you are without GPS.
During the day I use both, and GPS makes learning how to use a map easier.
GAIA GPS is my favorite map for off pavement exploring. We usually carry a color printout of the days hike.
Am I right in thinking the location for the point of the red arrow on the map at 03:40 is SD 91453 68414 or thereabouts?
Former Land Surveyor here (Someone who used transit machines, both GPS and analog, to create the maps people use). Under NO circumstances should anyone ever place full trust in a GPS unit. Even the ones used for professional work can and are wildly inaccurate and unreliable.
I never carry GPS as it will be more interested in tracking me than it will be in accurately tracking the topography.
Did I mention batteries? Imagine the weight and chore of 10 days in the woods trying to feed the juice when a half ounce map will do yah fine.
Anyone new to this realm please take the advice to use your brain and eyes and NEVER think twice about it-
Maps and compass do not run out of battery power
Working with ES I had cause to look for data in respect of incident positions. I was amazed to find so many incidents in the North Sea and Europe (way outside of my local gov's remit!). The cause: GPS and OS map refs data had been incorrectly adjusted to each other becoming, effectively, meaningless ...and worse!
Lets face it, you are never going to get quality waffling from a GPS unit!
In all seriousness. A map and compass enhances my experience while outdoors. A GPS can be convenient, but looking at a little screen is far less appealing.
Best wishes
Al
I had Garmin handhelds for years. Then one day on the release of a new model, the position icon grew so big it practically would cover an entire village ! I gave up with Garmin. Luckily I still kept my older model. I use the OS app on my phone now. But that has limitations. I still carry a compass though. Or an analogue watch