I love this video deep dive Corey! This is more your cup of tea. It's good to call out false teachings, and unsound doctrine. But, your like a professional coach calling out plays in a street ball game. This is clean, professional.. And worth it! Very edifying!
Corey, brother, you need to come on my show and let’s talk. You missed a few major points that would answer several of your questions. Let me know if you want to discuss.
If possible sir, perhaps Anthony Rogers after? I don’t think there would be as much tension as we’re used to seeing between you and Dr. White. Just a thought for those of us watching
@@josiahpulemau6214The tension was not one sided. It seems as Leighton Flowers and his followers would rather be right the know what is right. They cannot make a comment without invoking the words Calvin and/or tulip which is used as an insult, none of us mention either because they are not mentioned in the inspired scripture. We could care less what Calvin said God and Jesus and his inspired scripture said it first. You should read the scripture as though you know nothing and seek to get from God's word what he intended for you to get from it when he put the words there and nothing else. You should not read the scripture trying to prove what you believe is right. In order for God to have all of your heart, mind and soul, you have to place all of what you think, love/hate and all of your being at his disposal, this includes what you believe and your reputation.
Here’s is another great example found in Acts 13:48 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. So there was an appointing to eternal life, by God, and they believed.
predestination If you are Lost( unsaved) you are damned to HELL and there os NOTHING you can personally do about! If you have accepted Jesus uou atr going to Heaven (saved) and there is NOTHING you can do to change it! Hebrews 7:26-28
First of all, an “Armenian” coined the term TULIP. So, there’s that. Further, some of this isn’t even being a “Calvinist,” though. It’s being a Bibleist. “Redemption Accomplished and Applied,” by John Murray and “The Doctrines of Grace,” by Boice and Ryken do a great job breaking down Ordo Salutis (The Order of Salvation) with Scriptures- not just cherry picked ones. The main problem is that the ego (PRIDE) of man, him/her wanting to be God- like what happened in The Garden- is their minds can’t accept their depravity (Eph. 2:1-10; Eph. 4:17-19; Rom. 3:10-16; Romans 8:6-8; etc), much less God’s sovereignty. How can a dead person choose God on His own? Moreover, man (humans) generally are not able to accept there is no such thing as free will. You’re either enslaved to satan or you’re enslaved to Christ. Scripture makes this very plain.
Lord have mercy, you got right, TULIP is English, Calvin would have never used it because he spoke french. They use the word Calvin and Calvinism as an insult and because they know he was just a man that did not write any of the inspired scripture, and easy place to attack. When you give them scripture the first thing out of there mouth is Calvin instead of defending with scripture or they will say it was to Israel as though there is one gospel for Israel and another for the gentiles. 99% of the bible is to Israel.
predestination If you are Lost( unsaved) you are damned to HELL and there os NOTHING you can personally do about! If you have accepted Jesus uou atr going to Heaven (saved) and there is NOTHING you can do to change it! Hebrews 7:26-28
@@wanttopreachActually everyone was damned for hell the day they were born, everyone who goes to hell deserves to be there because they sinned. God did not do anybody wrong if he pulls a few out, God sets what is good and what is bad, not man.
@@RenardGarzaro Absolutely! Leighton used the name “Calvin”’ and the term “Calvinists&Calvinism” more than he used scripture. The man is clearly obsessed with John Calvin
I found Flowers channel because you had him on Corey. And I watched this debate and I think Flowers was completely clear and explained exactly what the drawing in John 6:44 was. He made a biblically sound distinction between John 6 and John 12 drawing. How did God draw the old testament believers? By showing up to Abraham, showing up in the burning bush to Moses, leading them from pharaoh, The Law and the Prophets..... All those who listened to God in the old testament and had the faith of Abraham along with the rest in the hall of faith in Hebrews, these were they who when they heard Jesus speak they heard God(John 5, John 1) I mean this is so clear to me, I am not sure how you say that he did not do a good job explaining it in the short time he had. He went to several scriptures, I think you are wrong on this one and you do not clearly understand Flowers ether. God hands were out all through the old testament and they would ether take God's hands or reject it, the choice was theirs just like today we can ether believe in Jesus and the cross or reject it.
The woman at the well knew better to be out there at that time of the day, but Jesus had needed to go that way, let's look at her testimony, she probably was taught as a little girl, but...
No one seeks after God , thank goodness it is not left up to us or no one would be saved , God started this and he knows how it ends and is totally in charge .
@interrupts165. Why did you think Dr. Flowers was completely clear? Were the OT prophets drawn or they came to the Lord by their own Free will? The believers in the OT testament who are not prophets or Priests drawn or did they come to Christ in their free will?
@@john318john excellent question. Also did God choose Israel or did Israel choose God? Unconditional election is taught throughout the OT. Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses and so on and so on…..
I think its clear when we fully grasp what human nature can and cannot do without God. The bible is clear that fallen man has no genuine desire for him outside of a changed heart. If we could, that means there is goodness in the human heart apart from the working of God.
predestination If you are Lost( unsaved) you are damned to HELL and there os NOTHING you can personally do about! If you have accepted Jesus uou atr going to Heaven (saved) and there is NOTHING you can do to change it! Hebrews 7:26-28
@@wanttopreach It's not that exactly. If you're not elect, you will be going to Hell. Who are the elect? No one but God knows. But at one point we are all lost. The non-elect don't care at all about pleasing God or doing anything about it.
Brother Corey, you are just an awesome brother. Love you man! Nevermind that I land almost precisely where you do theologically: seeing the severe limits of Provisionism, seeing God's absolute sovereignty but not needing to accept limited atonement, and MORE, the joy and love you have in knowing God and loving His Word and His church as you teach, is so evident. God bless you man.
predestination If you are Lost( unsaved) you are damned to HELL and there os NOTHING you can personally do about! If you have accepted Jesus uou atr going to Heaven (saved) and there is NOTHING you can do to change it! Hebrews 7:26-28
@@LandonKozeny I missed it too is don't think its there. Or I may have just missed it. You said it was, you have two people asking, so give us the time stamp, or apologize.
@@Tigerex966 You may not have the patience but watch the video or at least the second half of the video again. It is not just one verse, he explained the need for drawing, using the scripture in Isa. Jeremiah, deut. Ezekiel etc. He explained how we are born again with scripture old and new testament. He explained what part we played in that process, after the explanation it is not possible for election to be unconditional.
You may not have the patience but watch the video or at least the second half of the video again. It is not just one verse, he explained the need for drawing, using the scripture in Isa. Jeremiah, deut. Ezekiel etc. He explained how we are born again with scripture old and new testament. He explained what part we played in that process, after the explanation it is not possible for election to be unconditional.
After watching this whole video, you make great points and I tend to side with you on the semi-Calvinistic belief. I think there’s even more evidence to election and being chosen on the simple fact that God chose Christ from the beginning, that God chose Israel, that God chose the time period of Jesus life, and that He has chosen how it will all end from the beginning of time. We can say all day that we have a will, but I think that depends on how you define your will power. I’d say that it’s a will of obedience or disobedience, as demonstrated by those who, by faith, were righteous or by the seed of self deception, we cling to our own will, therefore continuing in sin (James 1:14-15) Once we proclaim Christ, we see the world through a God centered lens instead of a self centered lens and by obedience to God, it is only by His will that we remain right in His eyes. Also, reading in Romans 10 and 11 is another great example of election and how clear Gods choosing is. Some people might be able to try and pull out their will in it by stopping in chapter 10:9-13 making the point that all may hear but not believe. That doesn’t rule out God has chosen some to hear and others not to hear and chapter 11:28-32 explains that the gifts and calling of God is irrevocable. But now the invitation is available outside of Israel. Because of our disobedience, Christ came to all in His mercy, and now in Israel’s disobedience, may they see God’s mercy shown to us through Christ, that they may also receive the same mercy. I appreciate the time you put into all of this Corey(also, this is the correct and only way to spell Corey) it’s been an interesting internal debate and one that I get to try and explain to my wife who is getting a better grasp what Christianity is, more than just saying we believe, but becoming who God has called us to be through the instruction of His word.
Calvin is not involved at all, he did not write any of the inspired scripture, neither did he have any influence of what was said in the scripture, God inspired the scripture.
@@coreybassardI was not being a smarty, so you don't have to either, I'm just tired of hearing the words Calvin and Calvinist and Calvinism when he did not write a single scripture.
@@RenardGarzaro You can have whatever opinion you want. I think it’s a smart comment to say that Calvin was in none of the scriptures when that’s clearly obvious. No one is claiming that. And you posted two comments in a row basically stating the same things. It’s the opinion he had about the scriptures that makes people use that term. The only people who see the term Calvinist in a negative way are people who don’t agree with his opinion.
Hey Corey, I think you missed something in your refutation of the drawing statement. The drawing that is referred to by the provisionist here as the being taught is the one that's in verse 44, which is the drawing of the Father, and all those who are drawn by the father comes to Christ and He draws them with all men by the cross. in john 12. I think those are 2 distinct drawings here. Another context that is being missed here is that the teaching and learning was only available to the Israelites which happen to be the audience here. So you can not say that those that the Father draws are in verse 44 are all men everywhere in all times, I believe these are unique to israel. Then the Son when he is raised will draw all men to him.
99% of the Bible is written to Israel, both the old covenant and the new covenant is for Israel, not the gentiles, are you saying there is a gospel for Israel and a different gospel for the gentiles?
Good try, the same Jesus you said will draw all men unto him said no can come to him unless the FATHER draws them, as Jesus stated whoever the FATHER draws will be raised on that day and lose none. If Jesus was talking about the same drawing that would mean everybody will be saved (universal salvation) and we know that is no true.
@@driver26swx31 I believe scripture and not the philosophy of men who start with a system and push scripture through that system. I do like to scoring goals for my team because I'm on team Jesus. Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
@@johntrevett2944 But, your team is all about vain philosophies. So very far from team Jesus and more like team “my free will” not God’s sovereign will. Too bad.
@@driver26swx31 That's wild, you liked your own comments within seconds of posting them. I get it, you like your own words! I don't subscribe to the "ists" and "isms" that you hold to. I subscribe to the entirety of scripture where there is healthy tension and I'm ok with resting in the middle. I find it comical that people think they've figured it all out and God can only work in the confines of Calvinism, Arminianism, Traditionalism or any "ism" of their choosing. Keep holding to a man made philosophy and stranglehold of the enemy where you are unable to look another human in the eye and tell them Jesus loves them and died for their sins. I'll continue doing so because that's what the bible teaches. You can't, because you reject clear and plain scripture and are stuck in your man-made system. Let me guess, these really don't mean what they clearly say? John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
I agree that both of them got a little too emotional. I will say that I am on Dr Flowers side. But I think he at times would cut off James White in the middle of a sentence. James White would speak dogmatically as if the text says only his perspective. But here is something I would like to see. Have you noticed that these debates are always on proof texts for Calvinists? So, in order for a Provisionist to present their side, they have to give context and other texts in scripture to give why they think a Calvinist 'proof text' doesn't mean what Calvinist think it means. So, when James White kept saying 'I thought we were discussing John 6:44, is an unfair expectation. If they did a debate on 2 Peter 3:9, I wouldn't expect James White to stick to that verse only. I understand that he will need to give context and other verses to show why he doesn't think God's will for all doesn't mean all. Or to show that God has 2 wills, or whatever they say. But, that would be one of my main complaints with James White and him demanding Dr Flowers stick to a Calvinistic proof text.
@@ShepherdMinistry Leighton started in John 5 and walked through the text to give context for John 6:44! He didn't jump all over the place as James White claims. Yes, he used other passages, but so did James White.
@ShepherdMinistry Isn't that the root of the debate? Flowers did both. . He walked through the context of John 6:44 more than James White did! James White also argfor Calvinism by using verses all over the bible. He didn't really explain why John 6:44 means unconditional Election. He simply read the text a bunch of times assuming his position is true.
Theologically, I am 50/50 on this issue. I can look at it from both angles and see how they arrive Biblically. Logically, I am 100% on the Provisionist side. I believe that the Holy Spirit is showing himself and calling ALL people. But many reject him. I see know theological issue with this. Plus, it truly leaves anyone in the lake of fire without excuse. If we say that the lost souls were completely unable to believe in Jesus because of their condition, then they do have an excuse. This is what I do with all theologies. I do my best to understand both sides the best I can. If one is much closer to scripture, I stick with that. If they are very close, I use logic.
interesting comment. I can understand both sides but cannot see how JWs position holds in the light of the entire scripture (which is what LF showed so well). The only way JWs position can stand is with his STULIP presups being held in higher regard than scripture. JW is then doing Eisegesis rather than Exegesis.
@@unitedstates3068 quit using tulip the problem is you guys are fightingl Calvin we’re not talking about Calvin. We’re talking about scripture has nothing to do with tulip.
From the moment they were born, was repentance possible for these 2 humans who were made in the image of God? Revelation 20:10 NKJV [10] The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Full stop Corey. The Bible tells us to meditate on His Word. And learning to memorize His Word is exactly what we need because THAT'S how He speaks to us! I can't tell you how many times I've been in certain situations, or have needed God's strength, or was worried, fearful etc, and God would bring to my mind, so many Scriptures I needed in those moments that I wouldn't have understood otherwise had I not meditated on His Word and kept them in my heart! Oh how Blessed is His precious Word and how He strengthens, comforts, and gives us Hope at the time we need it most, by bringing to us remembrance of just the perfect Passage in His Holy Word, that we need at just that time we need it most!! Hallelujah! What a mighty God we serve! Therefore I will persevere, I will keep the faith. I will endure to the end, as Paul did. So to give God the glory! Bless His Holy Name!!
During the debate, White had to state his case about unconditional election because he had failed to actually do so during his opening. What he said is VERY interesting. He said, "If no one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws him, and all who come to Jesus are raised on the last day, that's unconditional election." No it isn't. Seriously, take a moment to read that statement. Unconditional election is about how God makes the choice about who to save. What does what he said have to do about how God makes the choice? It's not in there. All what he provided shows is that God draws and those who come are raised. Where is it mentioned why God draws who he draws? His entire position is presupposition. He's reading the words but hears something completely different in his head.
you're missing the point he was making. nobody is able to come to Jesus unless the Father draws them all who are drawed are raised up in the last day.. the point he was making is all who are drawed are raised up.. all who are not drawed are not raised up no man has the ability to make themselves someone who are drawed its unconditional election because God chooses who to draw which means God chooses who will come to Christ And God chooses who to raise up its unconditional because all humans are in the same position at the start being unable to come to Christ..all humans start off as the natural man being unable to please God and God chooses to draw.
@@86lanzo "All who are drawn are raised up on the last day." That phrase isn't found anywhere in the chapter. That concept isn't anywhere in the entire passage. But even if it was, that has nothing to do with how God makes the choice who to save which is what unconditional election is about. By that fact alone, John 6:44 doesn't teach unconditional election because it has nothing to do with how the choice is made. You're the one actually missing the point. No man is able to come to Jesus unless God draws him but the passage never explains who God draws and why. That's the concept that unconditional election addresses and that concept isn't in the passage.
@@r.rodriguez4991great point... But these things have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and so that believing, you may have life in His name
White was not there to debate John 6. He was there to debate as he himself admitted in his opening statement, the historical reformation interpretation of John 6. This means the STULIP presuppositions and assumptions were imposed on the text. Flowers rightly pushed on White's presuppositions, and White disingeniosly would say he was there to debate John 6. No, White was there to debate historical reformation interpretation of John 6 with all its STULIP presuppositions and assumptions. Flowers was exposing these presuppositions of STULIP and White in bad faith (imo) continued to say he was there to debate John 6 (as without the STULIP presuppositions) which is not true.
It is not as clear as you think you looking through glasses that only see what you believe, there are more scriptures that say God does it. I read none that say you are justified by anything you do.
@@JustinLebsock what!? His argument was actually very difficult to understand and it only makes sense when you read verses back into the previous verses and jumping around into different parts of the Bible to make it sound that God’s drawing is not effectual. Dr. White just simply gave the context, and went verse by verse in order without adding anything in from anywhere else or skipping a few verses forward to interpret the previous verses. To be honest I’m actually kind of impressed on how smart Dr. Flowers is to be able to do such incredible mental gymnastics to make it sound anything other then no one can come unless the father draws you. And all that the father draws will come and he shall lose none. This is a very comforting passage and even way before I became a Calvinist that is exactly how I understood this passage even though I couldn’t fit it into my free will theology. I just marked it as a mystery.
I enjoy your review so far, halfway through. Around 53min. You quote a question to Flowers, "is salvation a supernatural act of God?". But the question was "is conversion a supernatural act of God?". Those are not the same. Also, seems to me that you equate the drawing with the raising up on the last day. Leighton's argument, as far as I can tell, is that the coming results in the raising up. So it's not enough to be merely drawn, but drawn AND come. That's how everyone can be drawn, or hear, but not everyone is coming/listening and learning.
It can't be Everyone or Jesus what have said that, instead he said no one can come. Where in that scripture did you read anything alluding to the fact that is "not merely drawn" what in the scripture gives you that idea? Everyone is not coming because they are not drawn like the author and the finisher of the faith said.
@@RenardGarzaro that's not strictly what the author and finisher of our faith said. All he said is that no one CAN come unless drawn. That's it. Are you drawn then you can come. But WILL you come? Doesn't strictly say. But IF you come, then you'll be raised up on the last day. This is where I get the "not merely drawn" idea: "and I will raise him (i.e. the drawn and coming one) up on the last day." So the question becomes, who has the Father drawn? Is it a certain group of people, or some individuals? Or is it everyone (remember, I argue here that you have to be drawn AND coming to be raised up)? Also, I think it is a valid question to at least ask (even if Dr. White poo-pooed it) what's the relationship between the drawing of God in ch. 6 and Jesus' drawing of ALL men in ch. 12 If drawing=coming in 6:44 then does it not also mean that drawing=coming in 12:32?
I still don't get how any person can claim to accept any letter of the Tulip and not automatically be subject to adhere to the remainder. I not as smart as most of the people that comment but even I hust don't see how a person can accept a partial Tulip. Just like calavanism itself this hurts my little mind. Of course if we take calvanism out of Tulip than yes even I would most likely accept perhaps all the letters when held in actual and true biblical account.
Calvinists tend to accept certain concepts of Calvinism when they are looking at particular verses, but then they file that stuff away and live their lives as if Calvinism isn't true. I think the same thing happens with TULIP. They look at a letter that they think they agree with, but when they are looking at the ones they don't agree with they file the letter they agree with away and don't think about it.
It bothers me that you can listen to scripture being read with no mention of Calvin or tulip, and the these are the first things that come out of your mouth, indicating you already got a bias. So you would have your opinion right in your mind rather than get what God saying simply amazing
Corey, do you have a pdf of your bible timeline to download? My cheap phone takes horrible pics. Yes it is android and to make it complete, I have hair. Lol careful, i am your senior, lol.
"God drew them to Jesus"' where do you see Jesus written in the Old Testament other than prophetically, he drew them when he was lifting up on the cross he wasn’t lifting up on the cross of the old Testament
@@TimothyFish Did God provide conscience in every human? Can they be drawn through consciousness? Before Moses wrote the 4 books they were taught orally in your view? Please provide an example from any of the 4 books written by Moses. Thanks God Bless
You are missing a major point... which is that LF knew JW would not identify or acknowledge his presups, so LF spent time "outside" John 6:44 to support his presups. JW's arguments don't stand without presups. You seem to think that the verse by itself is sufficient for either position (or any other alternative). The only thing JW did to support his position was to talk in greek. Maybe do a review on BeyondtheFundamentals sentence structure for John 6:44.
predestination If you are Lost( unsaved) you are damned to HELL and there os NOTHING you can personally do about! If you have accepted Jesus uou atr going to Heaven (saved) and there is NOTHING you can do to change it! Hebrews 7:26-28
What I’m getting solely from John 6:44-45 and it’s referenced texts is, to answer the question, a person prior to the cross could not develop a fear of the LORD without being led by the Father… because here Jesus referenced Isa. 54:13 which says, “All your children (Sarah, the barren one [Isa. 54:1], all her children) shall be taught by the Lord…” Isa. 54:13 seems to point toward Jeremiah 31:33 as an explanation of what “being taught by the Lord” means… Jeremiah 31:33 says about the house of Israel, “… I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts.” ESV … So it seems as tho the teaching and learning is synonymous with God’s writing His law on the hearts of the children of the promise who practice and abide by it. And that is ALL of the children of the promise BC, AD, and adopted children into the promise).
How did you get any that says prior to the cross from John 6:44, it is not mentioned there. Jesus said what he meant and meant what he said, he did not waste words, there were no conditions, don't add to the scripture. The hearing and understanding comes from the father after the heart is replaced. The parable of the sower explains it perfectly, only the good heart will consistently believe and do the will of Christ, the question is how do you get the good heart. It is clear from the inspired scripture we do not open our eyes and ears; Proverbs 20:12 The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the Lord hath made even both of them. The inspired scripture says we get our heart from God when we are born again and we do not make ourselves born again, we are born from above. Ezekiel36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. We know this scripture is to Israel but this is how Jesus said we are born again when talking to Nicodemus he was referring to this scripture being born of water and spirit. God was the one talking not John Calvin, God was the one doing not Israel, God was the one Causing Israel to walk in his ways. This is for the gentiles too unless you think there is one gospel for Israel and another gospel for the gentiles besides 99% of the bible was written to Israel, the gentiles do not have a covenant both were to Israel.
You are correct with Jeremiah 31:33, the problem I see with the writing his law on the hearts of the children being a means of salvation is that the only way to the father is by Jesus and he had not been revealed. It seems as though you add some things that are not written in the scripture, you said “who practice and abide by it” that is not in the scripture, there are no conditions for Israel. There is a reason God is doing the work and not asking them to do anything, he expressed that in verse 32 …”because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them, declares the lord. Jesus when talking to Nicodemus about getting into the Kingdom express that we had to be born again of water and spirit. He was astonished Nicodemus did not understand because it was written In Ezekiel 36:25-27 and Jeremiah 31:31-35 God is the one talking and doing with no conditions for Israel/us.
@@RenardGarzaro so I say “abide by” and “practice” because that comes from the definition of the Greek words used for “Learn” and “Hear” there in John 6:45. The learning was an experiential learn that came from the practice of something. And the hearing was more of an understanding; accepting; willing-to-abide-by type of hearing. More intentional if you will…
Leighton makes a solid point. I don't recall Jesus saying in any of his sermons that only his fathers elect (of Tulip) will be in Fathers Kingdom.... I specifically chose Fathers Kingdom verses kingdom of heaven or kingdom of God.
The doctrine of election is clearly taught in Scripture. The Bible even speaks of those who belong to God who have not yet believed in Him. God has chosen them, and they belong to Him, even though they have yet to come to faith. To the unbelieving religious leaders, Jesus says, “You do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me” (John 10:26). Notice the cause and effect in His statement. He does not say, “You are not my sheep because you do not believe”; rather, He says, “You do not believe because you are not my sheep.” In verse 16, Jesus speaks of other sheep who will believe once they hear His voice. Those who are predestined to be saved will be saved.
It's pretty plain Jesus said no one comes to Him unless the Father first draws. God acts on our hearts. He says I will remove from you a heart of stone and put in you a heart of flesh and I will put my spirit in you with a desire to walk in my ways and obey my statutes. It's clear this is God's work folks. You can't love God unless He first loves you.
_"You can't love God unless He first loves you."_ ... and you can't hate God unless He first hated you. That's the part Calvinists conveniently don't like to talk about.
@@gk.4102 I really don't even know what you are trying to say. No one chooses God. The natural man chooses his sin and is powerless. It's supernatural to desire righteousness and to hate your sin. We only have power over it because of what God has done in us.
@@johnfreeman9766 _"I really don't even know what you are trying to say."_ I'm just trying to say that Calvinists are so ashamed for their own doctrines that they tend to conveniently leave out the flip side of their system, such as the fact that people only hate God because He first hated them. Once Calvinists become bold enough to speak their teachings fully and clearly, it won't take long for Calvinism to die out.
I really don’t see why regeneration is such a big issue. Eph. 2 tells us that faith is a gift from God. We don’t have salvation without being given this gift. We don’t have the power within us to have faith on our own, and a gift isn’t worked for (so that we can’t boast and God alone gets all the glory). So, I don’t know why people get their panties in such a bunch over this. Faith and repentance are both gifts, both required for salvation, and neither our depraved selves can do on our own. It’s in the Bible. It’s right there.
@@remnant8898salvation is the gift. if ephesians 2:8 is not clear enough for you what is the gift of God, refer to Romans 6:23. Scripture wont contradict
@@TheEngineer19 Anything you provide is not a gift, you provided it, you can say I made a good decision, I had faith, I helped God save me, Just because you did not actually say doe not make it false, Ephesians says you COULD boast, the potential is enough.
Funny how some can watch the video, follow scripture with it and still not believe. Why, because it doesn’t include their free will😂 That’s why their “panties get in a bunch “😂😂
predestination If you are Lost( unsaved) you are damned to HELL and there os NOTHING you can personally do about! If you have accepted Jesus uou atr going to Heaven (saved) and there is NOTHING you can do to change it! Hebrews 7:26-28
The fact Corey keeps using Hancock when someone calls him a Calvinist. 😂 Anyway…we are all believers of Jesus and we won’t really know about the scriptures until Jesus returns. I just want to live a life that pleases my Lord and Savior. ❤❤
Then it dosent make any sense for God to give His word. Apostle John tells that the anointing in us will teach us everything so it’s up to us to study the scripture with a heart to know the fullness of truth
John 3:3 3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]” Luke 9:23 23 Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. Colossians 3:5-8 5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[a] 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 1 John 3:10 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
John 3:5 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 1 Peter 3:21 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also-not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[a] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, Romans 6:4 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. You said you wanted a life to please the lord well here is a few . That's why it's important to read the word of God and not Just say you believe and live the life you want . We are to even Deny ourselves if you wanna follow Jesus . The word of God is very important then you won't follow any doctrine that's not according to the word .
@@RenardGarzaro I didn’t mean by every knowledge in regards with the world but with the scripture if we earnestly desire to. The verse does mean what it means and that dosent mean you will come to the full knowledge within a day or two.
My 2 cents. To me this text is not that complicated. Jesus was speaking to a Jewish crowd. They show this by the questions and the statements they ask Jesus about what they have been taught by the Lord. Yet, they believed they were followers of the Lord, but they were not coming to Jesus. Jesus turned this around to show them if they were listening and learning, they would be coming to him. This would be the giving of the father to the Son. All that come to the Son are drawn by the father. This does not say that those who are not coming are not being drawn. This is not the point of the text. The Calvinist would say, God only draws those who are chosen. The Wesleyan Arminian theologian would say God draws all people, this text does not prove either point. The text does imply that those who listen and learn, because they claim to be taught of God, would be coming to Jesus. They are not coming, they are not listening, and they are not learning. This text does not say only the determined by God are the ones who listen, learn and come.
that is why we can't listen to you, 99% of the bible is written to the Jews, name the scripture that is not written to the Jews. Is there a gospel for the Jews and another gospel for the gentiles?
It is not what the Calvinist would say or the Wesleyan Armenian, Jesus specifically said no one can come which means no one can come. You are doing what you accuse people who are not Calvinist but you accuse them of being a Calvinist because that is your only defense. "They can only come to this conclusion because the were influenced by someone else". We believe this way because it is what the scripture says. When you understand how we are saved you understand why you cannot lose your salvation and that you had nothing to do with it hence the term Grace. The only way to be saved is by being born from above just like Jesus told Nicodemus. Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God". Jesus was referencing Ezekiel 36:25-27 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. God was the one talking, God was the one doing, at this point he never asked Israel to do anything, God is the one washing with water, God is the cleansing, God is the one causing them to walk in his ways. Calvin is nowhere around to influence God. There is not two gospels, one for Israel and one for the gentiles. Jesus brought the gentiles in when he said other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
The text John 6. No one is coming. That is the context. They are not listening or learning. Calvinism, and that is what you are, say “this is what the scriptures say”. No, that is what you say the scriptures says. You think what you think is canon? Wow, can we include your commentary as scripture? You can sidestep the point all you want. The text does not say only the elect, or those regenerated, it says “those who listen and learn come”. This is by grace. God is the one who draws. I do not believe in Irresistible grace. Those who don’t resist come. Those who listen, learn and come by grace.
Where you can find “Free will” in scripture: Genesis 3:9 (after the fall) Romans 3:10-11 Matthew 22:1-14 (parable of the wedding feast) Isaiah 46:10 Eze 36:22-28 Col 1:16 Pslams 115:3 Romans 11:33 Jer 32:17 Isaiah 61:1 Eph 1:4-6 Eph 2:8-9 Proverbs 19:21 Free will outside of God’s “Sovereignty” is what Lucifer sought out for and we know how that worked out. The rest was…… HIStory. Praise the Lord for His written Revelation and His Spirit that enables the once natural man, to now comprehend it in spirit and in truth.
Well stated, but I think there are a lot of people who are trying to define free will as something that it is not. Instead of autonomy, they want to define it as authority. They seem to think that free will means that someone can do whatever they want without consequences.
@@willbrown6298, okay? Since when have slave been unable to do anything but what their master told them to do? There's a whole book of the Bible that is there because a slave ran away. Being enslaved doesn't equal lacking free will.
@@TimothyFish The human will, the very seat of our desires is enslaved, I think that's pretty self explanatory and the ramifications are evident. Either our desires (the will) are enslaved or they're not. The example you gave is essentially someone enslaved socially, but their heart is not enslaved to their master.
@@willbrown6298, when Jesus used the slave analogy in John 8, he wasn't telling people what it meant to be slaves; he was countering the Jews view that they didn't have a need to be freed. He isn't writing them off as being unable to admit that they need to be set free, rather he is using triggering language. If there was nothing they could do about it, there would be no point in him doing that.
Could we be conflating the softening of the heart when the gospel is presented with the regenerating work of God in our lives? What I’m understanding from Corey is that regeneration occurs when God softens our hearts so that we can place our trust in Him? 🙏🙏🙏
I'm one of those who stopped listening to Dr. Flowers because he's obsessed with Calvinism. He's soteriology channel has nothing but going after Calvinists and sometimes gets what they believe wrong. I've listened to him to conclude that he rationalizes God's infinite mind with his own very finite mind which makes him mostly trying to make God look better to his audience and people he's trying to reach. God is loving, he's justice and wrath is also part of his attributes. Here is the Lord saying in Isaiah 55:8-9 NKJV “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” says the LORD. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts
Amen. Run from anyone who feels the need to bring the lofty things of God down to their own understanding or even worse, play God's lawyer. Any sinner who has truly received mercy and has been spiritually reconciled with God is just happy to be in the family.
This is sad, Corey. If you are honest the way Dr. Leighton flowers handled the text compared to a walk through of John 6 having to read everywhere else before getting to John 6, is what is wrong with the Christian church. I come out of a oneness background, and that's the method of interpretation forget what the text says, find what I like fits my teaching, and interpret everything else that way. It's sad seeing so many people hold to that type of handling of the Word of God. So sad 😔
This makes zero sense....this is literally proper hermeneutics and the exact way that you prove the trinity. This is how you develop any doctrine, is not by isolating verses and ignoring other, but by taking in the whole counsel of scripture.
Why does Jesus draw? "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Leighton covered that at timecode 30:45 in the debate. So, you are incorrect that he didn't cover the "why".
@@RenardGarzaro, yes, because it's two different points in history. During the time that Jesus was on Earth, preparing to go to the cross, he was hiding himself from many because he was making use of their unbelief to send him to the cross. Once he had been lifted up on the cross, he no longer needed to hide, so then he could draw all, not just a few people.
The was not the what he was talking about, we all know he said that is why he gave his son, they answer to why is because of the condition of man's heart, only good ground (heart) will be saved. To get a new heart you must be born of water and spirit (born again) like Jesus said. It was written in the scripture Jeremiah 31:31-35 and Ezekiel 37:25-27 where God how is the one talking in these scriptures said he will take out your heart of stone and put in a heart of flesh, wash you with water, put my spirit in you and cause you to walk in my ways. God was the one talking and he did not ask Israel to do anything. There is not one gospel for Israel and another one for the gentiles.
@@RenardGarzaro, Jesus is the one who gives us a new heart. That's why we need Jesus. You want to say that we have to have a new heart before God would choose to save us and since salvation is having Jesus that we need a new heart before we can have Jesus. What's the point of Jesus dying if God gives us a new heart without Jesus?
@@TimothyFish I did not say that, God was the one talking in Ezekiel and Jeremiah, he was the one who said he would wash with water, he said he would put his spirit in you and cause you to walk in his ways, I was not there to say any of that. The scripture informs us that the Law served as a teacher to impart a crucial lesson. What lesson was intended for us to learn? The scripture/law was meant to convey that mankind could never consistently adhere to the commandments; despite occasional devotion to God, people would inevitably revert to their own ways. God identified the root of this issue as the condition of man's heart. In Jeremiah 17:9-10 of the New King James Version, it is stated: “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; Who can know it? I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings.” God provided a solution for Israel, which Jesus extended to include all of us. Jesus, in conversation with Nicodemus, alluded to this solution. Much like Nicodemus, many fail to grasp Jesus's assertion that one must be born again. This reference ties back to God's solution outlined in Jeremiah 18 and Ezekiel 36:25-27. It reads, "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." It is notable that God Himself speaks in this passage, indicating that He initiates the change. He promises to put his spirit in them, enabling them to follow His ways. This process may sound deterministic, yet it predates the influence of John Calvin. Jesus's words in John 10 further affirm this inclusivity, stating, "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." Therefore, being born anew allows one to make the right choice regarding God. This understanding underscores the reason why believers pray for the salvation of sinners. In essence, such prayers entreat God to transform hearts, enabling individuals to comprehend the gospel, believe in it upon hearing, and persevere in their faith.
The drawing is necessary because of man's inability (which is the essence of total depravity, which you deny). We don't have the ability to come because we are spiritually dead and controlled by our unregenerate sinful nature, referred to as being "in the flesh" in Romans 8. The unregenerate nature (the flesh) is hostile to God. Those who are in the flesh (unregenerate) cannot please God and therefore cannot believe unless regenerated since faith pleases God. God regenerates sinners through his word. "Of his own will begat he us through the word of truth." James 1:18. He grants faith to those he regenerates (Philippians 1:29). Their hostility is removed and they desire Christ because of their new nature. This is why God teaches those he intends to draw. Leighton claims that John 5 teaches that everyone is taught by the Father. John 5 denies that in verse 37 where is says "You have NEVER heard His voice nor seen His form." Leighton needs to assume that God is teaching people who refuse to listen and learn. John 6:45 does not talk about multiple groups of people. There is only one people group and that is those who both hear and learn from the father as a result of his teaching them. The effectiveness of the teaching is implied as EVERYONE who hears and learns comes. Just as everyone who the Father gives to Jesus comes to Jesus in verse 37. It is repetition for emphasis. We're talking about irresistible grace essentially.
God chooses nobody for salvation. It's a hard fact most people cannot wrap their head around due to their presuppositions. He desires salvation for all (100% of humanity) but doesn't get it. Yes, God often doesn't get what He wants. The term 'election' or 'choosing' is obviously in the bible. That's not up for debate. Some version of choose or elect is found 220+ times in the bible. I've studied each. What is up for debate, is if the church properly understands the meaning or if they are largely influenced by Augustine's mistakes. Because both Calvinism and Arminianism are downstream of Augustine and his presuppositions ... a great many mistakes are made in this debate as a result. Fighting over whether election is individual or corporate for salvation is the wrong question. It's neither. A big issue on this subject is the misunderstanding of Eph 1:4-5 -- people use their modern idea of adoption rather than the authors definition of the word. People that assume adoption means going from outside the family of God to being chosen before the foundation to be included in the family of God, they are mistaken. It's an easy mistake to make, but it's a mistake none-the-less. Adoption is something believers are awaiting. What? I'll say it again. It's something the author explains IS NOT the moment you're saved here on earth, but rather, a thing those who are already saved are still waiting for. You want chapter and verse right? Good. Paul, same author of both letters (books), defines adoption in Romans 8 verse 23 -- "Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies." Presuppositions get in the way of Sola Scriptura ... they are lenses through which we read error onto the pages. Yes, we all have them, but we CAN work to overcome them. Carefully study scripture like a detective, working diligently not to contaminate the scene. Don't think like an Augustinian, or a Platonist, or whatever else. God bless you all, I pray you dig into the bible with care to never make it say something it actually has no intention saying.
It is true that, in order to be saved, a person must make the choice to believe. Most believers can point to a time in which they considered the claims of Christ and surrendered to Him. We chose to surrender in faith; if we had not chosen to do so, we could not be saved. However, examining Scripture and looking back on the process of our salvation, we recognize God’s hand at work all along the way-we see the conviction of the Holy Spirit; we see how God was changing our unregenerate hearts to enable us to believe; we see the series of events that God orchestrated so that we could hear the gospel. We have a relationship with God because God chose to pursue a relationship with us and win us over. Some object that God does this with everyone. But, if that were the case, then the reason some people believe and others don’t is that some were more genuine, spiritually attuned, or morally sensitive. That would mean that some measure of innate human goodness enables some people to believe. If people contribute of their own goodness to salvation, we have a logical problem. More importantly, we have a biblical problem. Scripture teaches that God has chosen to save some people, and He chose them based on His own purposes, not some innate goodness on the part of the people being saved. Nor was His choice based on His advance knowledge of what decisions they would make. Paul describes God as the One who “chose us in [Christ] before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves” (Ephesians 1:4-6). In Ephesians 1:11-14, Paul explains how God’s choice and our faith work together: “In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession-to the praise of his glory.” The whole plan is for God’s glory and for the good of those whom He has chosen to save. Contrary to much popular teaching, the plan of salvation is not about us; it is about God. The doctrine of election is clearly taught in Scripture. The Bible even speaks of those who belong to God who have not yet believed in Him. God has chosen them, and they belong to Him, even though they have yet to come to faith. To the unbelieving religious leaders, Jesus says, “You do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me” (John 10:26). Notice the cause and effect in His statement. He does not say, “You are not my sheep because you do not believe”; rather, He says, “You do not believe because you are not my sheep.” In verse 16, Jesus speaks of other sheep who will believe once they hear His voice. Those who are predestined to be saved will be saved. In Corinth, there were only a handful of believers, and Paul was facing persecution, but Jesus appeared to him in a vision and said, “Do not be afraid; keep on speaking, do not be silent. For I am with you, and no one is going to attack and harm you, because I have many people in this city” (Acts 18:9-10). Corinth was not full of believers at the time, but it was full of the elect-people whom God had chosen and who would come to faith when they heard the message. Some might ask, why bother sharing the gospel if God has already chosen to save some? The answer is that He commands us to share the gospel. We evangelize to bring God glory and because the preaching of the gospel is the way He has chosen to save the elect. Writing from a Roman prison and awaiting execution, Paul explains to Timothy why he is willing to endure hardship for the gospel: “Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory” (2 Timothy 2:10). Some may charge that God’s plan is simply unfair-some are chosen to be saved while others are passed over and have no chance. This objection often assumes a faulty picture of salvation, one in which people are lining up to be saved, pleading with God to save them, but He says, “No, I have not chosen you. Your name’s not on the list, so I reject you.” But that’s not what happens. The reality is that everyone is given a choice to obey God, and everyone, great and small, chooses to sin. Scripture reveals that, in His grace, God has chosen to save some in spite of their rebellion. He works in their hearts and wins them over. The others God simply allows to continue in the ways they have freely chosen and desire to continue in. Those who reject Christ do so freely. Those who receive Christ also do so freely, but only because God has worked in their hearts to win them over so that they now want to receive Him. God is perfectly free; He is obligated to save no one, and the fact that He saves some shows that He is loving. No one is saved without the election and predestination of God. If there were no election and predestination, the entire human race would be eternally lost. The only reason a rebellious sinner ever comes to faith in Christ is that God has chosen to win him over instead of allowing him to continue down the path to destruction. God is in charge. “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb” (Revelation 7:10).
Ive been going down this rabbit hole, and it has been getting ever increasingly confusing. As long as i trust in Jesus and Jesus alone I am saved correct? I dont have to distinclt adhere to one of these doctrines for salvation correct? Im getting a bit worried. All i know is Jesus is the Messiah, He is the only way of Salvation, He is God, He is Risen. I will keep studying his word
Going over this video again, to answer your question about “drawing” in John 6:44 Corey and who are the “all” there that heard and learned, I would point to John 6:65 NASB95 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me ***unless it has been granted*** him from the Father." And that would be just one from a sea of text that basically says it is the work of God alone in man that enables man to hear and learn
Headline is dishonest and misleading. I don’t know of a single non-Calvinist that believes that salvation precedes regeneration. What we object to is the erroneous and nonscriptural idea that regeneration precedes faith in God’s plan of redemption. We contest that idea because it can’t be found in the Bible.
1 Peter 1:3 NASB2020 [3] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To be born again ->> TO ->> A living hope It's right there.
@@jayrodriguez84 Jay, From a dyed in the wool Calvinist, I would expect you of all people to know one of the great sola fide passages of the New Covenant, namely this from Romans 10, “But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”-that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.” ✝️🙏🏼
@@johntrevett2944 The seal is not regeneration. The seal refers to the fact that the Holy Spirit will never leave upon(also stated as after) believing. Why will the Holy Spirit never leave? Because the spiritual birth has already happened.
@@jayrodriguez84 So you're saying New Testament believers can be indwelt with the Holy Spirit but not yet sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption? Please back that claim up with scripture.
We can’t teach predestination. But that the way it is. Who so ever let come. But your up bring make you. Sinner, Holy, Love, Faith, Trust. Can you give the flesh this world. And totally submit trust God.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Exodus 12:21-24 [21] Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover. [22] And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning. [23] For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you. [24] And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever. Psalm 3:8 Salvation belongeth unto the LORD: Thy blessing is upon thy people. Selah.
@@RenardGarzaro The salvation of man was the same in the Old Testament as it is today. They were saved by grace through faith in Christ; the same as New Testament believers. They looked forward to the cross and we look back to the cross.
@@driver26swx31 if you don’t understand, Jesus Jesus, the man was not in the old Testament/covenant. The scripture in Hebrews says if the old covenant was good, we wouldn’t need the new covenant. The old covenant sacrifice, bulls and goats the new covenant sacrifice Jesus. No one went to heaven until Jesus if they could go to heaven, Jesus wouldn’t need to have come.
Anyone who refutes the Doctrines of Grace does not believe in a Sovereign God. It is the Man-centered Gospel that requires man to have absolute agency over all he seeks and works toward in Life.
You are correct but it did not happen in the old covenant, God speaking of the new covenant coming. Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. The only way to be regenerated is by being born from above (born again). Jesus said this to Nicodemus, he was referring to Ezekiel 37:25-27 - 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. The New Covenant came through Jesus and Jesus was not revealed in the old testament.
@@RenardGarzaro To say that the the doctrine of Regeneration is not taught in the Old testament is saying that no one under the old covenant at the time could have been made alive in Christ. The Holy Spirit(the regenerator ie the one who quickens one to life in Christ is present everywhere in the Bible NT and OT who also regenerates. If God didn't Regenerate in the ot then God is being limited. God is the same God in the old as well as the NT.
@@JamesJones-qi1pcBut he only does what is written in the scripture. The scripture says in Hebrews, if the old covenant was good we would not need the new covenant.
@@JamesJones-qi1pcWhat was taught in the old testament was about what would come if eternal salvation was in the old testament, Jesus would not have had to come, which is why gave the new covenant, the old one was temporary. Read Hebrews. How is God limited?
We're humans. Those titles are descriptive..its how we communicate. Its quick ways of passing on as much information as possible using as few words as possible . its like telling someone you're a Christian. Its one word. But it comes with so many connotation .you now have a bearing on that person's perspective without having a long conversation.
Corey did a great job in his debate against Leighton. I found that Corey, as recent as he may be to social media but perhaps not the scriptures, did a more thorough walk through of the text than Leighton did in their debate. Good video brotha Corey God bless your ministry 🤙🏾🙏🏾🇦🇸
@@remnant8898 Bro I don't know I'm really asking....I know its not Enoch or Elijah. LOL. He took them...not drew them. Well he took Elijah....Enoch went out on a Sunday morning stroll with God and didn't come back.
The scripture informs us that the Law served as a teacher to impart a crucial lesson. What lesson was intended for us to learn? The scripture/law was meant to convey that mankind could never consistently adhere to the commandments; despite occasional devotion to God, people would inevitably revert to their own ways. God identified the root of this issue as the condition of man's heart. In Jeremiah 17:9-10 of the New King James Version, it is stated: “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; Who can know it? I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings.” God provided a solution for Israel, which Jesus extended to include all of us. Jesus, in conversation with Nicodemus, alluded to this solution. Much like Nicodemus, many fail to grasp Jesus's assertion that one must be born again. This reference ties back to God's solution outlined in Jeremiah 18 and Ezekiel 36:25-27. It reads, "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." It is notable that God Himself speaks in this passage, indicating that He initiates the change. He promises to put his spirit in them, enabling them to follow His ways. This process may sound deterministic, yet it predates the influence of John Calvin. Jesus's words in John 10 further affirm this inclusivity, stating, "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." Therefore, being born anew allows one to make the right choice regarding God. This understanding underscores the reason why believers pray for the salvation of sinners. In essence, such prayers entreat God to transform hearts, enabling individuals to comprehend the gospel, believe in it upon hearing, and persevere in their faith.
Leighton says God draws in many ways creation conscious the prophets apostles the word and of vourse the holy spirit and jesus says he will draw all after he is raised up.
Why Leighton is wrong is the Jesus who is the author and the finisher of the faith said he would lose none of them that the father gives him, according to Leighton that is everyone and everyone is not going to heaven.
@@RenardGarzaro he chose judas the father gave him judas or he could not come to him. But judas of his own free will walked and fell away from the faith confessed repented and gave the money back and apparently killed himself. Did jesus lose him? No. Judas lost Jesus Peter denied three times this doubted over 5000 followers wAlked away from jesus. But jesus still lived and savied who ever believed.
@@RenardGarzaro Leighton never said everyone is going to heaven rusts a false accusation of a brother.🤥😖 He said God has made provision through the blood of jesus that salvation as available to every man woman buy and girl who believe in him far salvation🤔 That's a huge difference.🤫
Give diligence to make your calling and election sure 2 Pet 1:10. If your election is sure, just ignore the apostle's exhortation, and listen to every wind of doctrine. Reading is fundamental.
100 percent disagree with you on virtually all points. Making it clear you believe john 3.16 boldly is nothing to be ashamed of. That whosoever beleves and all can believed will be daved. Not based on being picked for salvation or passed over for damnation. But grace through faith.
It is not Grace if it was based on your decision making and the faith you provided, you are a good smart person, who was smart enough to chose Jesus and smart enough to have faith and strong enough to endure until the end, what a great person you are. God provides the new heart and then you chose. Jesus talking to Nicodemus about being saved, you must be born again (born from above). 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
@@RenardGarzaro stop spewing Calvinists lies and talking points please. Teach the bible, not theological systematic. The Grace is God lets you as a human have free will choose to accept him and by his grace you are saved, and he not you or me decided to set it up his way, through faith. You might not like that...too bad. Again your faith is like filthy rags to God and does not save you or help God save you, it is not a salvation meriting work as Paul continually points out we are saved. Thats why we cannot boast about faith, why boast about sinful filthy rags. Instead we boast about Gods grace that has given provision for every man boy woman and girl to be saved by him. It is man's responsibility and ability to accept or reject God and we all deserve hell, no one is denying that faith or not. God has decided not to be a respecter of persons, choosing some adults and infants for salvation, while passing over other adults and infants for certain damnation created to be destroyed with no chance at redemption ever. Instead Jesus draws all and God uses this word the gospel and other witnesses and means as he power unto salvation. God gets all the glory and is not dependent on anyone. Calvinist UNCONFITIONAL electiin irritable grace is falsely ekection false belief false grace because they person has not free will or choice to accept or reject what is being put on them, they are just a brainless puppet commanded to act and behave in a certain way, that's not grace, that evil robotic souless manipulation and take over of a Humana God given free will human by force. Which leads to forced fake belief or no belief at all. After you believe you receive a new heart and all things become new as the biblical text says you are regenerated or saved if you will only after you believe not before. You have the order of salvation completely backwards. You were not saved first and then believe, you believed and were saved...come on now? That defies logic making you the worlds first and only saved unbeliver.🤔🙄🤭 John 3.16 God does not force salvation on any one nor damnation. You are responsible to believe or reject and you "can" do either or, and eventually will, and not by force or predestination, but by choice. That's how you know its real faith accepting Gods grace or real rejection of God's grace and salvation.
I hate that when you actually believe the Bible, people label you as a Calvinist. Oh well, I guess that's the culture for you; people can't live happy without labelling you...
predestination If you are Lost( unsaved) you are damned to HELL and there os NOTHING you can personally do about! If you have accepted Jesus uou atr going to Heaven (saved) and there is NOTHING you can do to change it! Hebrews 7:26-28
Asking if there is a regeneration in the old testament is as same as asking if people of the old testament were children of God. There's regeneration simply because you can't be called children of God if you are not regenerated and we seen even Adam and Eve being called children of God
Leighton needs to understand WE DO NOT WANT GOD ON OUR OWN! Therefore, we need the Spirit to open our dead heart to the gospel. I do think he throws the baby out with the bathwater.
"We need the Spirit to open our dead hearts to the gospel". The Gospel is enough. It is the sharpest point of the Spirit's sword (Scriptures/God's Word). When presented in evangelism/mission/preaching, it can pierce a dead heart allowing God's grace to flow in.
predestination If you are Lost( unsaved) you are damned to HELL and there os NOTHING you can personally do about! If you have accepted Jesus uou atr going to Heaven (saved) and there is NOTHING you can do to change it! Hebrews 7:26-28
@@wanttopreach Predestination is when God says all things work together for the good to them the love him and are call according to his purpose. If you are going to copy and paste at least edit your mistakes.
@@CoffeeCoffeeCoffee86 that's not true. I was born in a loving Christian home and I knew about Jesus at a very young age and I wanted to know him and I never thought about going the opposite direction!
@@petefults5984 No. That’s not the same. Basically it starts with “do you want to go to heaven with mom and dad?” “ then believe in Jesus!” I do t see that in scripture. Repent. Die to self. That is biblical. Of course my kid grows up in church, but that does not make him a Christian. Yes my wife and I point him to Jesus, but we are very quick to say YOU must choose. We can’t choose for you.
What are you talking about? Leighton main point is that everyone who will read v45 will come up with a natural understanding of the passage. Anyone who reads this will have the same interpretation. If you don't insert presupposition. All and everyone is the same group of people, but there is distinction. Everyone is the collected group from all people who learned. It doesn’t necessarily follow that all learned, and everyone has the same quantity as all. White arguments is all = everyone. But everyone doesn't necessarily means all. It depends upon a condition. Ex. The teacher taught all his students. Everyone who listened and learned passed the exam. If All student is 100 students and from that, 50 passed the exam. It simply follows that "everyone" correspond to the 50 students from "all" students. They are not equal. Everyone who listens and learned is not the same as Everyone listened and learned. I don't get how Calvinist don't get the usage of a simple collective word in a sentence. I don't know how you can present v45 more plainly. What evidence should Leighton say if you can not understand the simple usage of words in a sentence. Dr. Flower sighted gazillion verses to support the natural interpretation.
What Corey is saying is that in the Greek the words hears and learned cannot be separated. In other words, those who heard have/had learned. Hears AND learned, they are one.
@@kevinruggerio1796 But it's not the case. Either in Greek or in English. We are basically talking grammar and sentence. In plain English what does it mean when you read "those who", God taught them and "those who" listened and learned. The teacher taught them and those who listened and learned passed the exam. The difference is you read it as God taught them, so they listened and learned. Insertion of the word "those who" made it conditional.
My translation, NASB, reads “Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me” and the Greek Interlinear reads, “ having heard from the Father and having learned comes to Me”. There is no “those who”, what translation are you using. To me when I read both translation I’ve stated, heard is not separate from learned because “and” connects them. The ones drawn have both heard and learned.
@@kevinruggerio1796 Same thing, those who or everyone who, basically means whoever listened and learned comes to me, unlike the Calvinist presupposition that say everyone listened, so everyone learned so they come to me because the Father draws them. Completely ignoring the word "who". And the whole context the chapter. Yes, the one who listened and learned belong to the same group of people but not necessarily the same quantity. Some just listened and some listened and at the same time learned. Ex. Everyone who played basketball and scored, became famous. "And" is a conjunction but as an additional condition in the statement to become famous. Everyone who played may not become famous. Why? they didn't contribute to winning. Everyone who played and scored become famous. Why? not because they just played but they scored and contributed something to the team. Another one: If you press enter the comment will be posted. If you press shift and enter the cursor will move to the next line below. AND in the 2nd statement joins the 2 conditions into 1 clause. If you just press shift nothing will happen but if you press shift and enter the cursor will move to the next line below. I cannot explain more plainly than that.
@@RTPGCONot so. Let’s take the Greek Interlinear for this example. “Everyone having heard from the Father and having learned comes to Me”. If the “having heard” and “having learned” are two different groups, then according to the verse, both groups come to Christ. Then we would be looking at everyone just hearing the word of God would come to Christ just because they heard? Sounds like Universalism to me.
The scripture says we were chosen before the foundation of the world, he also said Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world. Sin still required atonement, so that is why Jesus came.
Calvinist are making this way too difficult. John 5 comes before John 6. The Jews are saying that they have a relationship with the Father and are not going to accept Jesus’s claim as being the Son. Jesus said that he and the Father are one. If you had a relationship with the Father you would automatically know me as the Son. John 6:44-45 is affirming that a Jew’s faith toward the Father was effectual toward the Son. The Father would draw those to the Son who already had a relationship with him. The Jew who already had a relationship with the father would effectually hear and learn and automatically come to the Son. Jews who were faithfully following the father were not going to be lost when they transferred their faith from the Father to the Son because they knew they were one. Hence Jesus said - 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
You added " a Jew’s faith toward the Father was effectual toward the Son", this is not in the text. You should not make up stuff, say what the scripture says, nowhere did your " The Father would draw those to the Son who already had a relationship with him", you added this, it is not in the text. Where did you get that there is a "transfer of faith from one to another"? If he drew everyone than everyone would go to heaven because he said he would lose none. Don't add anything to the text, God us what he wanted us to have.
@@RenardGarzaro Jews were able to have a relationship with the Father through the prophets and scripture under the OT. Many did; most did not. Those that did were drawn to the Son effectually through the Father. “And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.” These are the faithful Jews who already had faith in the Father. The Father ensured that Jesus would not be a stumbling block to the Jew who was already faithfully following him. The Calvinists believe that 6:44-45 is in reference to the elect when in fact it’s in reference to the faithful Jew who is already following the Father. Since Christ has been exalted the Father no longer draws or judges - the Son does.
@@RenardGarzaro When one exegetes a portion of scripture you still have to consider the context. You have to consider who the audience is and how would they understand what is being said. If you isolate a text from the fuller text you will only create a proof text for your biases. Who is Jesus talking to? Jews. These the same Jews who are following him around from chapter 5. The Jews are saying they can have a relationship with the Father and still deny the Son. Jesus is not denying the relationship they could have with the Father. That was the intent of OT until the coming of the Messiah. Jesus is reminding them that if they had a relationship with the Father they would automatically recognize him as the Son because they are one. Calvinists are right about the exegesis of John 6:44-45. They are just inserting a different group of hearers than the ones in the text.
@@paullaymon5746He says it must be granted by the father. This means the father decides. John 6:65 (NASB95): 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”
@@paullaymon5746 Do you realize 99% of the scripture is written to the Jews? Do you believe there is a gospel for the Jews and another gospel for the gentiles? The scripture tells us way we have the Old covenant. Paul calls the old covenant "the ministry of condemnation" because it exposes our guilt and worthiness of God's judgment. It was designed to show people that they constantly violated God's moral standards, and that God demanded death as the payment for their violations. John 6:44-45 has nothing to do with John Calvin because he did not write any inspired scripture, and he is not mentioned in the inspired scripture. There is only one gospel and it is for the Jews but Jesus included the gentiles. “Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too” (Romans 3:29). Jesus was the Jewish Messiah, but He had come to offer salvation to everybody. The Messiah was to be a “light for the Gentiles” (Isaiah 42:6). So call on Jesus, because “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved” (Acts 2:21).
@@86lanzo Actually that's a very good way to describe Calvinism. Belief is the line between life and punishment. Belief in what though? In Jesus' death for our sins? Except in Calvinism Jesus never died for those people's sins.
@@86lanzo it wasn't a mis characterization .... just not phrased in a more palatable and sanctimonious way. By stating it as a mis characterization, do you believe God provided a way of salvation for everyone or only (calvinistic) elect? It would be a mis characterization of calvinism to say that the OP was a mis characterization. "And by all means disregard sin" ... did not God foreordain all sin for His glory? James White says if it wasn't decreed by God then it would be meaningless. John Macarthur says God wills evil to exist.
No they send themselves to hell by being a sinner and loving their sin. Without a divine election we cannot be saved because we cannot love God like how birds cannot breathe under water.
@@unitedstates3068yes God does will evil to exist but not by how you are misinterpreting it. He wills it by allowing it to happen knowing that it will happen therefore willing it to happen. E g. Judas betraying Christ, pontas pilate and the high priest kill him for the redemption of mankind. He predestined it to happen.
At the end of it all, Calvinists & provisionists are using the same 'words' but meaning WILDLY different things. Might as well be speaking different languages altogether.
Listen to Jesus, not Paul. You are not saved by grace. You are saved by obeying the teachings of Jesus. This is clearly what Jesus clearly taught. You have been informed; it's up to you to listen. *** Matthew 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?" Then I will tell them plainly, "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!" Even those who have enough faith in Jesus to perform miracles and cast out demons and prophesy will not go to heaven unless they do the will of God. Jesus is very clear about this. You can have all the faith in the world in Jesus and call upon his name until you are blue in the face, but if you do not obey his teachings, you will not be allowed into the Kingdom of Heaven. * Matthew 17:5 While Jesus was still speaking a bright cloud covered them and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my son whom I love. With him I am well pleased. Listen to him!” Observe, no mention of Paul. John 8:34-35 Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. John 8:47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God. John 12:49-50 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. I know that His command leads to eternal life, so whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say. John 14:6 I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:15-17 If you love me, keep my commands, and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever, the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. John 14:23-24 Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. John 15:13-14 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. John 15:18-20 If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. *** "Listen to Jesus, Not Paul" - composed by Isho
Yikes, might want to dust off that Bible and cruise over to Eph 2:8-9 where it states we are saved by grace through faith. Take your Judiazer false gospel to the outhouse where it belongs.
No because every born Adam have his nature(being a sinner). Until born after God into the Kingdom. Holy like God you have God character. Now you are his Son.
This was perhaps the worst review of this debate I have seen so far, it is extremely biased, but I expected as much, based in Coreys earlier videos usually critical of Flowers. Never the less its good you state your views and try to say you are and not and kinda yes kinda no. C
34:00 What concerns me is the estimated 100 billion plus souls who have already lived and died, in demographic regions where there have been multiple generations who knew only pagan ideas of spirituality. Even in Church age times, to simple message of the Gospel seems to have been compromised in masses , even is 2nd 3rd pre catholic ( Constatine / Augustinian thought ) , Those of us listening to this have had the great privilege of having the written scriptures in our generation, yet so many, including myself are vexed by the confusion of this debate, I like to believe that no matter messed up in doctrine, practice, are saved If they once heard the Grace of GOD ( which i did, almost 50 years ago this summer ) At 65, with failing health, I'm not encouraged by this debate, though I'm more encouraged by Leighton Flowers. Dr James White and Dr Micheal Brown ( Calvinist / Arminian ) have been a discouragement to me for years being that they cause me to doubt my Salvation though from different scriptural logic.
Dont let that trouble "you..will not the judge of the earth do right??If anything Im more worried about us than the ppl who died without hearing of Christ. God will Judge us in accordance with the amount of light we have been given. whether that's natural revelation, special revelation etc. these debates are for the most part conversations among brethern.and this has been going on from the start of the church. From Paul confronting peter or the many councils the church has had solidify doctrine, we're called to love the Lord with our minds and that involves studying and discussing his word. God Bless
@@RenardGarzaro What if both sides are wrong? What if both sides are partially right? What if God’s Grace extends to both sides? What if not knowing exactly how salvation works isn’t that important to our salvation as long as Jesus lives in us? What if we are making too much of this topic? 🤔🤔🤔
@@rjc9537If you understand the scripture, both sides are not wrong, one side is. You can't be partially right, either God elects or he doesn't. Grace means you do nothing, the other sides says you do something. Not knowing how you are saved could be an indication you are not saved, because you have to believe Jesus is who he says he was, If he says he does the work and you say you do the work, you cannot be saved by your work and you don't believe Jesus is who he says he is. Jesus said search the scripture for in them you think you have eternal life, these are they who testify of me. When you believe you do things to be saved you try to convince others to do things to be saved hence seeker driven churches.
Flowers never makes sense… draw, the word is not voluntary! Also you cannot use the word faith unless you define it.. flowers never defines faith and uses it like a magic word!
It's because people want to be right. They don't wanna face it that God is in charge of this. It's strange in a way to value free will over God's choice an power.
@theveryamericaneagle3657 My concern is first, most people talk past each other on election. Second, it is usually brothers who are fighting. And lastly, people play fast and loose with the Scriptures. If anyone knows what election is, it would be Paul. For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. (2 Corinthians 4:6, ESV)
Easily your worst video ever. Fully missing the points of contention completely. Wow just wow. This was more about corey being a calvinist or not being a calvinist then the debate. Trying to have your cake and not gain weight.
any semi-pelagian "provisionist" is an open theist. james white understands that too well. the problem is that we dont think our doctrine through. calvinism is sound doctrine.
Any Calvinist is a decieved pawn of the Devil helping him spread lies about God like that God is glorified in the abuse of children which he decreed simultaneously with decreeing that some of those children grow up and die of a drug overdose and burn in hell forever. Calvinism is soundly satanic.
@@LindsayJackel Jesus said "search the scripture, for in them you think you have you have eternal life, these are they that testify of me" Saul thought he was right until he got knocked of the donkey. You might be serving the wrong God, you better search.
@@RenardGarzaroOr, more likely, you are wrong, and should start reading and following God and Scripture, and abandon worshipping the false god of calvinism and following the false calvinist gospel.
calvinism: God giving men what they deserve. provisionism: Mankind taking what was theirs to begin with. im a calvinist. im on God's team. not mankind's team
Technically, 45 comes before 44, because in 45 he is talking about what the prophets said well before he made his statement in 44. So, they were either taught and they learned before they were drawn (using your view) or he's using 45 to expound upon what he means by them being drawn.
@@TimothyFish Are you saying there was an error in John 6 because 45 comes before 44 in your technical view? Are you saying the scribers made an error? Where in other scriptures you can make that same technical assertion? What does it mean drawn in the original Greek text? How many times was the word drawn used in Chapter 6? I thought Jesus was referencing the OT in 45 . So in your view teaching comes before be drawn? Did Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit has the power to draw before teaching? Here is 45: It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. - John 6:45
@@john318john , no, I don't think there is an error in John 6; I'm just pointing out that your view that the order puts the drawing before teaching doesn't work because the text that Jesus is referencing was written long before his statement in 44. Language doesn't work that way. Sometimes the order in which things are said gives us the order in which they occur, but sometimes they are said in that order because there is a desire to introduce the concept and then go back and explain that concept. My view isn't that the teaching comes before the drawing. My view is that the teaching IS the drawing. To be able to come, one must be drawn/taught, because we wouldn't know that there is something to come to without being taught. Not everyone will believe what they are taught, but those who hear the teaching and learn/believe come to Jesus.
@@TimothyFish You added to the scripture, it does not say (drawn/taught), it just says drawn. Jesus told Peter flesh and blood does not reveal who the Son of man is, all of the messages in the world can't draw you, the implication in the statement Jesus made is that God reveals the gospel, not the delivery. Jesus said he that hath ears, doesn't everyone have ears? Jesus said in the parable of the sower that the ground is the heart and only one of the different soils was good, how do you get the good soil (heart)? I know because Jesus said it when he was talking to Nicodemus, he said you must be born of the water and spirit, Ezekiel 36:25-27 where God was doing the talking and the doing. When you know how you are saved you don't questioned if you are elected or not. You cannot be saved by grace if you are not born from above and God does that without your help, after that you can chose him, abide in him, live for him because he said it.
@@RenardGarzaro, you are assuming that the drawing must be something mystical, rather than it being something practical. Where do you get the idea that God can't use the foolishness of preaching to draw people?
Drawing is regeneration. You can't become a Christian unless you are regenerated first. How is it that some hear the Word and still do worldly things and others hear the word and there is conviction and a change of heart.
@@LindsayJackel Hi Lindsey. Check out Romans 12:3 and Ephesians 2:8 where your faith comes from God. Also check out John 1:13 where John tells us you are reborn not by your (i.e. man's) will but God's will. The gift of faith is a part of God's grace to undeserving sinful man. God Bless.
@@Cattleman16479 It is word games if you're a calvinist. Calvinists aren't genuine in discussions. YOU are laser focused on trying to convert Christians to calvinism, asking gotcha questions, as a method to rebuff and promote calvinism, not listening to others and responding with deflection and denials.
So this is a stupid argument on predestination . To me it easy, If you are Lost( unsaved) you are damned to HELL and there os NOTHING you can personally do about! If you have accepted Jesus uou atr going to Heaven (saved) and there is NOTHING you can do to change it! Hebrews 7:26-28
I love this video deep dive Corey! This is more your cup of tea. It's good to call out false teachings, and unsound doctrine. But, your like a professional coach calling out plays in a street ball game. This is clean, professional.. And worth it! Very edifying!
Corey, brother, you need to come on my show and let’s talk. You missed a few major points that would answer several of your questions. Let me know if you want to discuss.
Invite him on...invite him on...invite him on
Yep, he just did
If possible sir, perhaps Anthony Rogers after? I don’t think there would be as much tension as we’re used to seeing between you and Dr. White. Just a thought for those of us watching
@@christianhartis3327 You guys don’t want to know what’s right you just want to be right
@@josiahpulemau6214The tension was not one sided. It seems as Leighton Flowers and his followers would rather be right the know what is right. They cannot make a comment without invoking the words Calvin and/or tulip which is used as an insult, none of us mention either because they are not mentioned in the inspired scripture. We could care less what Calvin said God and Jesus and his inspired scripture said it first.
You should read the scripture as though you know nothing and seek to get from God's word what he intended for you to get from it when he put the words there and nothing else. You should not read the scripture trying to prove what you believe is right.
In order for God to have all of your heart, mind and soul, you have to place all of what you think, love/hate and all of your being at his disposal, this includes what you believe and your reputation.
Here’s is another great example found in Acts 13:48
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
So there was an appointing to eternal life, by God, and they believed.
predestination If you are Lost( unsaved) you are damned to HELL and there os NOTHING you can personally do about! If you have accepted Jesus uou atr going to Heaven (saved) and there is NOTHING you can do to change it! Hebrews 7:26-28
Who are appointed to eternal life? Believers
Yes sir 🤙🏾🙏🏾🇦🇸
Amen
First of all, an “Armenian” coined the term TULIP. So, there’s that. Further, some of this isn’t even being a “Calvinist,” though. It’s being a Bibleist. “Redemption Accomplished and Applied,” by John Murray and “The Doctrines of Grace,” by Boice and Ryken do a great job breaking down Ordo Salutis (The Order of Salvation) with Scriptures- not just cherry picked ones. The main problem is that the ego (PRIDE) of man, him/her wanting to be God- like what happened in The Garden- is their minds can’t accept their depravity (Eph. 2:1-10; Eph. 4:17-19; Rom. 3:10-16; Romans 8:6-8; etc), much less God’s sovereignty. How can a dead person choose God on His own? Moreover, man (humans) generally are not able to accept there is no such thing as free will. You’re either enslaved to satan or you’re enslaved to Christ. Scripture makes this very plain.
Lord have mercy, you got right, TULIP is English, Calvin would have never used it because he spoke french. They use the word Calvin and Calvinism as an insult and because they know he was just a man that did not write any of the inspired scripture, and easy place to attack.
When you give them scripture the first thing out of there mouth is Calvin instead of defending with scripture or they will say it was to Israel as though there is one gospel for Israel and another for the gentiles. 99% of the bible is to Israel.
predestination If you are Lost( unsaved) you are damned to HELL and there os NOTHING you can personally do about! If you have accepted Jesus uou atr going to Heaven (saved) and there is NOTHING you can do to change it! Hebrews 7:26-28
@@wanttopreachActually everyone was damned for hell the day they were born, everyone who goes to hell deserves to be there because they sinned. God did not do anybody wrong if he pulls a few out, God sets what is good and what is bad, not man.
@@RenardGarzaro
Absolutely! Leighton used the name “Calvin”’ and the term “Calvinists&Calvinism” more than he used scripture. The man is clearly obsessed with John Calvin
Thanks! Brotha Corey. Awesome video, I love the digging out of the word. Stay blessed 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
Very welcome
I found Flowers channel because you had him on Corey. And I watched this debate and I think Flowers was completely clear and explained exactly what the drawing in John 6:44 was. He made a biblically sound distinction between John 6 and John 12 drawing. How did God draw the old testament believers? By showing up to Abraham, showing up in the burning bush to Moses, leading them from pharaoh, The Law and the Prophets..... All those who listened to God in the old testament and had the faith of Abraham along with the rest in the hall of faith in Hebrews, these were they who when they heard Jesus speak they heard God(John 5, John 1) I mean this is so clear to me, I am not sure how you say that he did not do a good job explaining it in the short time he had. He went to several scriptures, I think you are wrong on this one and you do not clearly understand Flowers ether. God hands were out all through the old testament and they would ether take God's hands or reject it, the choice was theirs just like today we can ether believe in Jesus and the cross or reject it.
The woman at the well knew better to be out there at that time of the day, but Jesus had needed to go that way, let's look at her testimony, she probably was taught as a little girl, but...
No one seeks after God , thank goodness it is not left up to us or no one would be saved , God started this and he knows how it ends and is totally in charge .
Well Said
@interrupts165. Why did you think Dr. Flowers was completely clear?
Were the OT prophets drawn or they came to the Lord by their own Free will?
The believers in the OT testament who are not prophets or Priests drawn or did they come to Christ in their free will?
@@john318john excellent question. Also did God choose Israel or did Israel choose God? Unconditional election is taught throughout the OT. Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses and so on and so on…..
I think its clear when we fully grasp what human nature can and cannot do without God. The bible is clear that fallen man has no genuine desire for him outside of a changed heart. If we could, that means there is goodness in the human heart apart from the working of God.
predestination If you are Lost( unsaved) you are damned to HELL and there os NOTHING you can personally do about! If you have accepted Jesus uou atr going to Heaven (saved) and there is NOTHING you can do to change it! Hebrews 7:26-28
@@wanttopreach It's not that exactly. If you're not elect, you will be going to Hell. Who are the elect? No one but God knows. But at one point we are all lost. The non-elect don't care at all about pleasing God or doing anything about it.
That is what the Bible teaches Amen 🙏🏾
Brother Corey, you are just an awesome brother. Love you man! Nevermind that I land almost precisely where you do theologically: seeing the severe limits of Provisionism, seeing God's absolute sovereignty but not needing to accept limited atonement, and MORE, the joy and love you have in knowing God and loving His Word and His church as you teach, is so evident. God bless you man.
predestination If you are Lost( unsaved) you are damned to HELL and there os NOTHING you can personally do about! If you have accepted Jesus uou atr going to Heaven (saved) and there is NOTHING you can do to change it! Hebrews 7:26-28
@@wanttopreachIf you want to preach stop rebelling.
Corey, can you define what you believe or mean about "unconditional election"?
He did, look at the video again.
@@RenardGarzaro do you have the time stamp? Must have missed it.
@@LandonKozeny I missed it too is don't think its there.
Or I may have just missed it.
You said it was, you have two people asking, so give us the time stamp, or apologize.
@@Tigerex966 You may not have the patience but watch the video or at least the second half of the video again. It is not just one verse, he explained the need for drawing, using the scripture in Isa. Jeremiah, deut. Ezekiel etc. He explained how we are born again with scripture old and new testament. He explained what part we played in that process, after the explanation it is not possible for election to be unconditional.
You may not have the patience but watch the video or at least the second half of the video again. It is not just one verse, he explained the need for drawing, using the scripture in Isa. Jeremiah, deut. Ezekiel etc. He explained how we are born again with scripture old and new testament. He explained what part we played in that process, after the explanation it is not possible for election to be unconditional.
After watching this whole video, you make great points and I tend to side with you on the semi-Calvinistic belief. I think there’s even more evidence to election and being chosen on the simple fact that God chose Christ from the beginning, that God chose Israel, that God chose the time period of Jesus life, and that He has chosen how it will all end from the beginning of time.
We can say all day that we have a will, but I think that depends on how you define your will power. I’d say that it’s a will of obedience or disobedience, as demonstrated by those who, by faith, were righteous or by the seed of self deception, we cling to our own will, therefore continuing in sin (James 1:14-15)
Once we proclaim Christ, we see the world through a God centered lens instead of a self centered lens and by obedience to God, it is only by His will that we remain right in His eyes.
Also, reading in Romans 10 and 11 is another great example of election and how clear Gods choosing is. Some people might be able to try and pull out their will in it by stopping in chapter 10:9-13 making the point that all may hear but not believe. That doesn’t rule out God has chosen some to hear and others not to hear and chapter 11:28-32 explains that the gifts and calling of God is irrevocable. But now the invitation is available outside of Israel. Because of our disobedience, Christ came to all in His mercy, and now in Israel’s disobedience, may they see God’s mercy shown to us through Christ, that they may also receive the same mercy.
I appreciate the time you put into all of this Corey(also, this is the correct and only way to spell Corey) it’s been an interesting internal debate and one that I get to try and explain to my wife who is getting a better grasp what Christianity is, more than just saying we believe, but becoming who God has called us to be through the instruction of His word.
Calvin has nothing to do with it. He was in none of the scriptures quoted people use Calvin to be negative.
Calvin is not involved at all, he did not write any of the inspired scripture, neither did he have any influence of what was said in the scripture, God inspired the scripture.
@@RenardGarzaro Thank you captain obvious.
@@coreybassardI was not being a smarty, so you don't have to either, I'm just tired of hearing the words Calvin and Calvinist and Calvinism when he did not write a single scripture.
@@RenardGarzaro You can have whatever opinion you want. I think it’s a smart comment to say that Calvin was in none of the scriptures when that’s clearly obvious. No one is claiming that. And you posted two comments in a row basically stating the same things. It’s the opinion he had about the scriptures that makes people use that term. The only people who see the term Calvinist in a negative way are people who don’t agree with his opinion.
Hey Corey, I think you missed something in your refutation of the drawing statement. The drawing that is referred to by the provisionist here as the being taught is the one that's in verse 44, which is the drawing of the Father, and all those who are drawn by the father comes to Christ and He draws them with all men by the cross. in john 12. I think those are 2 distinct drawings here. Another context that is being missed here is that the teaching and learning was only available to the Israelites which happen to be the audience here. So you can not say that those that the Father draws are in verse 44 are all men everywhere in all times, I believe these are unique to israel. Then the Son when he is raised will draw all men to him.
Bingo...teo different drawings in John 6 and 12
99% of the Bible is written to Israel, both the old covenant and the new covenant is for Israel, not the gentiles, are you saying there is a gospel for Israel and a different gospel for the gentiles?
@@beaberean3286 so you’re saying there’s two different gospels
Good try, the same Jesus you said will draw all men unto him said no can come to him unless the FATHER draws them, as Jesus stated whoever the FATHER draws will be raised on that day and lose none. If Jesus was talking about the same drawing that would mean everybody will be saved (universal salvation) and we know that is no true.
Flowers won hands down ❤
Regeneration is in the OT (Gen. 12 the call of Abram; Num. 14:24, Caleb had a different “Spirit” which is why he followed God fully)
Calvinist Dictionary
All: The elect.
Everyone: The elect.
Kosmos: Greek word that means “The elect”.
Whosoever: The elect.
World: The elect.
False. Do you believe the Word of God or do you believe in waving your flag and scoring goals for your team? Quit misrepresenting God’s Word. 👋
@@driver26swx31 I believe scripture and not the philosophy of men who start with a system and push scripture through that system. I do like to scoring goals for my team because I'm on team Jesus.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
@@johntrevett2944 But, your team is all about vain philosophies. So very far from team Jesus and more like team “my free will” not God’s sovereign will. Too bad.
@@johntrevett2944 John 1:13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
@@driver26swx31 That's wild, you liked your own comments within seconds of posting them. I get it, you like your own words! I don't subscribe to the "ists" and "isms" that you hold to. I subscribe to the entirety of scripture where there is healthy tension and I'm ok with resting in the middle. I find it comical that people think they've figured it all out and God can only work in the confines of Calvinism, Arminianism, Traditionalism or any "ism" of their choosing.
Keep holding to a man made philosophy and stranglehold of the enemy where you are unable to look another human in the eye and tell them Jesus loves them and died for their sins. I'll continue doing so because that's what the bible teaches. You can't, because you reject clear and plain scripture and are stuck in your man-made system.
Let me guess, these really don't mean what they clearly say?
John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
I agree that both of them got a little too emotional. I will say that I am on Dr Flowers side. But I think he at times would cut off James White in the middle of a sentence. James White would speak dogmatically as if the text says only his perspective. But here is something I would like to see. Have you noticed that these debates are always on proof texts for Calvinists? So, in order for a Provisionist to present their side, they have to give context and other texts in scripture to give why they think a Calvinist 'proof text' doesn't mean what Calvinist think it means. So, when James White kept saying 'I thought we were discussing John 6:44, is an unfair expectation. If they did a debate on 2 Peter 3:9, I wouldn't expect James White to stick to that verse only. I understand that he will need to give context and other verses to show why he doesn't think God's will for all doesn't mean all. Or to show that God has 2 wills, or whatever they say. But, that would be one of my main complaints with James White and him demanding Dr Flowers stick to a Calvinistic proof text.
Dr. flowers doesn’t have a side the only side is God's, stick to the Scriptures
You should be able to use the context of the chapter and walk through it. Leighton does a shotgun approach and attacks every aspect of Calvinism.
@@ShepherdMinistry Leighton started in John 5 and walked through the text to give context for John 6:44! He didn't jump all over the place as James White claims. Yes, he used other passages, but so did James White.
@@truthtransistorradio6716 We can agree to disagree. From what I listened to he definitely did a shotgun approach and attacked Calvinism as a whole.
@ShepherdMinistry Isn't that the root of the debate? Flowers did both. . He walked through the context of John 6:44 more than James White did! James White also argfor Calvinism by using verses all over the bible. He didn't really explain why John 6:44 means unconditional Election. He simply read the text a bunch of times assuming his position is true.
One of your best vids. God bless ya for rightly dividing God’s Word.
Theologically, I am 50/50 on this issue. I can look at it from both angles and see how they arrive Biblically. Logically, I am 100% on the Provisionist side. I believe that the Holy Spirit is showing himself and calling ALL people. But many reject him. I see know theological issue with this. Plus, it truly leaves anyone in the lake of fire without excuse. If we say that the lost souls were completely unable to believe in Jesus because of their condition, then they do have an excuse.
This is what I do with all theologies. I do my best to understand both sides the best I can. If one is much closer to scripture, I stick with that. If they are very close, I use logic.
interesting comment. I can understand both sides but cannot see how JWs position holds in the light of the entire scripture (which is what LF showed so well). The only way JWs position can stand is with his STULIP presups being held in higher regard than scripture. JW is then doing Eisegesis rather than Exegesis.
@@unitedstates3068 quit using tulip the problem is you guys are fightingl Calvin we’re not talking about Calvin. We’re talking about scripture has nothing to do with tulip.
Your logic is not good enough it’s your exegesis of scripture is what you should go by.
From the moment they were born, was repentance possible for these 2 humans who were made in the image of God?
Revelation 20:10 NKJV
[10] The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
@@RenardGarzaro But TULIP is what the debate is about! James White believes it, Leighton Flowers doesn't! The name of the theology is Calvinism.
Beautiful! Thank you
Full stop Corey. The Bible tells us to meditate on His Word. And learning to memorize His Word is exactly what we need because THAT'S how He speaks to us! I can't tell you how many times I've been in certain situations, or have needed God's strength, or was worried, fearful etc, and God would bring to my mind, so many Scriptures I needed in those moments that I wouldn't have understood otherwise had I not meditated on His Word and kept them in my heart! Oh how Blessed is His precious Word and how He strengthens, comforts, and gives us Hope at the time we need it most, by bringing to us remembrance of just the perfect Passage in His Holy Word, that we need at just that time we need it most!! Hallelujah! What a mighty God we serve! Therefore I will persevere, I will keep the faith. I will endure to the end, as Paul did. So to give God the glory! Bless His Holy Name!!
During the debate, White had to state his case about unconditional election because he had failed to actually do so during his opening. What he said is VERY interesting.
He said, "If no one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws him, and all who come to Jesus are raised on the last day, that's unconditional election."
No it isn't. Seriously, take a moment to read that statement. Unconditional election is about how God makes the choice about who to save. What does what he said have to do about how God makes the choice? It's not in there. All what he provided shows is that God draws and those who come are raised. Where is it mentioned why God draws who he draws?
His entire position is presupposition. He's reading the words but hears something completely different in his head.
you're missing the point he was making.
nobody is able to come to Jesus unless the Father draws them
all who are drawed are raised up in the last day..
the point he was making is
all who are drawed are raised up..
all who are not drawed are not raised up
no man has the ability to make themselves someone who are drawed
its unconditional election because God chooses who to draw
which means God chooses who will come to Christ
And God chooses who to raise up
its unconditional because all humans are in the same position at the start being unable to come to Christ..all humans start off as the natural man being unable to please God and God chooses to draw.
@@86lanzo "All who are drawn are raised up on the last day."
That phrase isn't found anywhere in the chapter. That concept isn't anywhere in the entire passage.
But even if it was, that has nothing to do with how God makes the choice who to save which is what unconditional election is about. By that fact alone, John 6:44 doesn't teach unconditional election because it has nothing to do with how the choice is made.
You're the one actually missing the point. No man is able to come to Jesus unless God draws him but the passage never explains who God draws and why. That's the concept that unconditional election addresses and that concept isn't in the passage.
@@r.rodriguez4991great point... But these things have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and so that believing, you may have life in His name
White was not there to debate John 6. He was there to debate as he himself admitted in his opening statement, the historical reformation interpretation of John 6. This means the STULIP presuppositions and assumptions were imposed on the text. Flowers rightly pushed on White's presuppositions, and White disingeniosly would say he was there to debate John 6. No, White was there to debate historical reformation interpretation of John 6 with all its STULIP presuppositions and assumptions. Flowers was exposing these presuppositions of STULIP and White in bad faith (imo) continued to say he was there to debate John 6 (as without the STULIP presuppositions) which is not true.
Seems like you don’t read very well nowhere in the scripture does it say those who come, it said specifically those who are drawn read it again
Flowers clearly had a better argument. It was consistent, logical, and fit with the rest of scripture.
It is not as clear as you think you looking through glasses that only see what you believe, there are more scriptures that say God does it. I read none that say you are justified by anything you do.
He does not have a strong argument
@@against-the-text1517 so did Satan
@@JustinLebsock what!? His argument was actually very difficult to understand and it only makes sense when you read verses back into the previous verses and jumping around into different parts of the Bible to make it sound that God’s drawing is not effectual.
Dr. White just simply gave the context, and went verse by verse in order without adding anything in from anywhere else or skipping a few verses forward to interpret the previous verses.
To be honest I’m actually kind of impressed on how smart Dr. Flowers is to be able to do such incredible mental gymnastics to make it sound anything other then no one can come unless the father draws you. And all that the father draws will come and he shall lose none.
This is a very comforting passage and even way before I became a Calvinist that is exactly how I understood this passage even though I couldn’t fit it into my free will theology. I just marked it as a mystery.
I enjoy your review so far, halfway through.
Around 53min. You quote a question to Flowers, "is salvation a supernatural act of God?". But the question was "is conversion a supernatural act of God?". Those are not the same.
Also, seems to me that you equate the drawing with the raising up on the last day. Leighton's argument, as far as I can tell, is that the coming results in the raising up. So it's not enough to be merely drawn, but drawn AND come. That's how everyone can be drawn, or hear, but not everyone is coming/listening and learning.
It can't be Everyone or Jesus what have said that, instead he said no one can come. Where in that scripture did you read anything alluding to the fact that is "not merely drawn" what in the scripture gives you that idea? Everyone is not coming because they are not drawn like the author and the finisher of the faith said.
@@RenardGarzaro that's not strictly what the author and finisher of our faith said. All he said is that no one CAN come unless drawn. That's it. Are you drawn then you can come. But WILL you come? Doesn't strictly say. But IF you come, then you'll be raised up on the last day.
This is where I get the "not merely drawn" idea: "and I will raise him (i.e. the drawn and coming one) up on the last day."
So the question becomes, who has the Father drawn? Is it a certain group of people, or some individuals? Or is it everyone (remember, I argue here that you have to be drawn AND coming to be raised up)?
Also, I think it is a valid question to at least ask (even if Dr. White poo-pooed it) what's the relationship between the drawing of God in ch. 6 and Jesus' drawing of ALL men in ch. 12
If drawing=coming in 6:44 then does it not also mean that drawing=coming in 12:32?
I still don't get how any person can claim to accept any letter of the Tulip and not automatically be subject to adhere to the remainder. I not as smart as most of the people that comment but even I hust don't see how a person can accept a partial Tulip. Just like calavanism itself this hurts my little mind. Of course if we take calvanism out of Tulip than yes even I would most likely accept perhaps all the letters when held in actual and true biblical account.
Calvinists tend to accept certain concepts of Calvinism when they are looking at particular verses, but then they file that stuff away and live their lives as if Calvinism isn't true. I think the same thing happens with TULIP. They look at a letter that they think they agree with, but when they are looking at the ones they don't agree with they file the letter they agree with away and don't think about it.
It bothers me that you can listen to scripture being read with no mention of Calvin or tulip, and the these are the first things that come out of your mouth, indicating you already got a bias. So you would have your opinion right in your mind rather than get what God saying simply amazing
Who mentioned tulip?
Timothy Fish
I noticed you did not deny Calvin was mentioned.
Corey, do you have a pdf of your bible timeline to download? My cheap phone takes horrible pics. Yes it is android and to make it complete, I have hair. Lol careful, i am your senior, lol.
Corey, the question was how were they drawn before Moses wrote the first 4 books of the OT?
"God drew them to Jesus"' where do you see Jesus written in the Old Testament other than prophetically, he drew them when he was lifting up on the cross he wasn’t lifting up on the cross of the old Testament
Word of mouth. Just because humans hadn't developed writing yet doesn't mean that they didn't have speech.
@@TimothyFish Did God provide conscience in every human? Can they be drawn through consciousness? Before Moses wrote the 4 books they were taught orally in your view? Please provide an example from any of the 4 books written by Moses. Thanks God Bless
Many ways creation God talking to them a conscience angels etc God has many ways to draw us closer to him.
@@RenardGarzaro prophetically or not its still jesus is it not.?
You are missing a major point... which is that LF knew JW would not identify or acknowledge his presups, so LF spent time "outside" John 6:44 to support his presups.
JW's arguments don't stand without presups. You seem to think that the verse by itself is sufficient for either position (or any other alternative). The only thing JW did to support his position was to talk in greek. Maybe do a review on BeyondtheFundamentals sentence structure for John 6:44.
predestination If you are Lost( unsaved) you are damned to HELL and there os NOTHING you can personally do about! If you have accepted Jesus uou atr going to Heaven (saved) and there is NOTHING you can do to change it! Hebrews 7:26-28
What I’m getting solely from John 6:44-45 and it’s referenced texts is, to answer the question, a person prior to the cross could not develop a fear of the LORD without being led by the Father… because here Jesus referenced Isa. 54:13 which says, “All your children (Sarah, the barren one [Isa. 54:1], all her children) shall be taught by the Lord…” Isa. 54:13 seems to point toward Jeremiah 31:33 as an explanation of what “being taught by the Lord” means… Jeremiah 31:33 says about the house of Israel, “… I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts.” ESV …
So it seems as tho the teaching and learning is synonymous with God’s writing His law on the hearts of the children of the promise who practice and abide by it. And that is ALL of the children of the promise BC, AD, and adopted children into the promise).
How did you get any that says prior to the cross from John 6:44, it is not mentioned there. Jesus said what he meant and meant what he said, he did not waste words, there were no conditions, don't add to the scripture. The hearing and understanding comes from the father after the heart is replaced. The parable of the sower explains it perfectly, only the good heart will consistently believe and do the will of Christ, the question is how do you get the good heart. It is clear from the inspired scripture we do not open our eyes and ears; Proverbs 20:12 The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the Lord hath made even both of them.
The inspired scripture says we get our heart from God when we are born again and we do not make ourselves born again, we are born from above. Ezekiel36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
We know this scripture is to Israel but this is how Jesus said we are born again when talking to Nicodemus he was referring to this scripture being born of water and spirit. God was the one talking not John Calvin, God was the one doing not Israel, God was the one Causing Israel to walk in his ways.
This is for the gentiles too unless you think there is one gospel for Israel and another gospel for the gentiles besides 99% of the bible was written to Israel, the gentiles do not have a covenant both were to Israel.
@@RenardGarzaro made an edit if you wanna check it out.
You are correct with Jeremiah 31:33, the problem I see with the writing his law on the hearts of the children being a means of salvation is that the only way to the father is by Jesus and he had not been revealed. It seems as though you add some things that are not written in the scripture, you said “who practice and abide by it” that is not in the scripture, there are no conditions for Israel. There is a reason God is doing the work and not asking them to do anything, he expressed that in verse 32 …”because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them, declares the lord. Jesus when talking to Nicodemus about getting into the Kingdom express that we had to be born again of water and spirit. He was astonished Nicodemus did not understand because it was written In Ezekiel 36:25-27 and Jeremiah 31:31-35 God is the one talking and doing with no conditions for Israel/us.
@@RenardGarzaro so I say “abide by” and “practice” because that comes from the definition of the Greek words used for “Learn” and “Hear” there in John 6:45. The learning was an experiential learn that came from the practice of something. And the hearing was more of an understanding; accepting; willing-to-abide-by type of hearing. More intentional if you will…
Isa. 54 is pointing the millennial reign.
Leighton makes a solid point. I don't recall Jesus saying in any of his sermons that only his fathers elect (of Tulip) will be in Fathers Kingdom.... I specifically chose Fathers Kingdom verses kingdom of heaven or kingdom of God.
The doctrine of election is clearly taught in Scripture. The Bible even speaks of those who belong to God who have not yet believed in Him. God has chosen them, and they belong to Him, even though they have yet to come to faith. To the unbelieving religious leaders, Jesus says, “You do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me” (John 10:26). Notice the cause and effect in His statement. He does not say, “You are not my sheep because you do not believe”; rather, He says, “You do not believe because you are not my sheep.” In verse 16, Jesus speaks of other sheep who will believe once they hear His voice. Those who are predestined to be saved will be saved.
It's pretty plain Jesus said no one comes to Him unless the Father first draws. God acts on our hearts. He says I will remove from you a heart of stone and put in you a heart of flesh and I will put my spirit in you with a desire to walk in my ways and obey my statutes. It's clear this is God's work folks. You can't love God unless He first loves you.
_"You can't love God unless He first loves you."_
... and you can't hate God unless He first hated you. That's the part Calvinists conveniently don't like to talk about.
@@gk.4102 God both loves and and also hates His enemies. It says yet while we where enemies of God Christ died.
@@gk.4102 I really don't even know what you are trying to say. No one chooses God. The natural man chooses his sin and is powerless. It's supernatural to desire righteousness and to hate your sin. We only have power over it because of what God has done in us.
You pack A LOT into "draws."
@@johnfreeman9766 _"I really don't even know what you are trying to say."_
I'm just trying to say that Calvinists are so ashamed for their own doctrines that they tend to conveniently leave out the flip side of their system, such as the fact that people only hate God because He first hated them.
Once Calvinists become bold enough to speak their teachings fully and clearly, it won't take long for Calvinism to die out.
I really don’t see why regeneration is such a big issue. Eph. 2 tells us that faith is a gift from God. We don’t have salvation without being given this gift. We don’t have the power within us to have faith on our own, and a gift isn’t worked for (so that we can’t boast and God alone gets all the glory). So, I don’t know why people get their panties in such a bunch over this. Faith and repentance are both gifts, both required for salvation, and neither our depraved selves can do on our own. It’s in the Bible. It’s right there.
Ephesians (and other scriptural references) says that grace is the gift of God, not faith.
Agreed. Christianity apart from regeneration is just another dead religion serving an imaginary god.
@@remnant8898salvation is the gift. if ephesians 2:8 is not clear enough for you what is the gift of God, refer to Romans 6:23. Scripture wont contradict
@@TheEngineer19 Anything you provide is not a gift, you provided it, you can say I made a good decision, I had faith, I helped God save me, Just because you did not actually say doe not make it false, Ephesians says you COULD boast, the potential is enough.
Funny how some can watch the video, follow scripture with it and still not believe. Why, because it doesn’t include their free will😂 That’s why their “panties get in a bunch “😂😂
I ❤Corey but I truly believe that whoever trust in Christ will be saved praise God ❤
I liked the intro. One of the things that irks me is when people tell me what I believe - and then still getting it wrong even after I tell them.
predestination If you are Lost( unsaved) you are damned to HELL and there os NOTHING you can personally do about! If you have accepted Jesus uou atr going to Heaven (saved) and there is NOTHING you can do to change it! Hebrews 7:26-28
The fact Corey keeps using Hancock when someone calls him a Calvinist. 😂 Anyway…we are all believers of Jesus and we won’t really know about the scriptures until Jesus returns. I just want to live a life that pleases my Lord and Savior. ❤❤
Then it dosent make any sense for God to give His word. Apostle John tells that the anointing in us will teach us everything so it’s up to us to study the scripture with a heart to know the fullness of truth
John 3:3
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]”
Luke 9:23
23 Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me.
Colossians 3:5-8
5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[a] 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.
1 John 3:10
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
1 Peter 3:21
21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also-not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[a] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Romans 6:4
4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
You said you wanted a life to please the lord well here is a few . That's why it's important to read the word of God and not Just say you believe and live the life you want . We are to even Deny ourselves if you wanna follow Jesus . The word of God is very important then you won't follow any doctrine that's not according to the word .
@@_IT_Jason if you knew everything you would be like God omniscience, be sensible.
@@RenardGarzaro I didn’t mean by every knowledge in regards with the world but with the scripture if we earnestly desire to. The verse does mean what it means and that dosent mean you will come to the full knowledge within a day or two.
My 2 cents. To me this text is not that complicated.
Jesus was speaking to a Jewish crowd. They show this by the questions and the statements they ask Jesus about what they have been taught by the Lord. Yet, they believed they were followers of the Lord, but they were not coming to Jesus.
Jesus turned this around to show them if they were listening and learning, they would be coming to him. This would be the giving of the father to the Son.
All that come to the Son are drawn by the father. This does not say that those who are not coming are not being drawn. This is not the point of the text.
The Calvinist would say, God only draws those who are chosen. The Wesleyan Arminian theologian would say God draws all people, this text does not prove either point.
The text does imply that those who listen and learn, because they claim to be taught of God, would be coming to Jesus. They are not coming, they are not listening, and they are not learning.
This text does not say only the determined by God are the ones who listen, learn and come.
that is why we can't listen to you, 99% of the bible is written to the Jews, name the scripture that is not written to the Jews. Is there a gospel for the Jews and another gospel for the gentiles?
It is not what the Calvinist would say or the Wesleyan Armenian, Jesus specifically said no one can come which means no one can come.
You are doing what you accuse people who are not Calvinist but you accuse them of being a Calvinist because that is your only defense. "They can only come to this conclusion because the were influenced by someone else". We believe this way because it is what the scripture says.
When you understand how we are saved you understand why you cannot lose your salvation and that you had nothing to do with it hence the term Grace.
The only way to be saved is by being born from above just like Jesus told Nicodemus. Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God".
Jesus was referencing Ezekiel 36:25-27
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
God was the one talking, God was the one doing, at this point he never asked Israel to do anything, God is the one washing with water, God is the cleansing, God is the one causing them to walk in his ways. Calvin is nowhere around to influence God.
There is not two gospels, one for Israel and one for the gentiles. Jesus brought the gentiles in when he said other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
The text John 6. No one is coming. That is the context. They are not listening or learning.
Calvinism, and that is what you are, say “this is what the scriptures say”. No, that is what you say the scriptures says. You think what you think is canon? Wow, can we include your commentary as scripture? You can sidestep the point all you want. The text does not say only the elect, or those regenerated, it says “those who listen and learn come”. This is by grace.
God is the one who draws. I do not believe in Irresistible grace. Those who don’t resist come. Those who listen, learn and come by grace.
Eph 2 we are dead in our sins and trespass we can do nothing to contribute
Where you can find “Free will” in scripture:
Genesis 3:9 (after the fall)
Romans 3:10-11
Matthew 22:1-14 (parable of the wedding feast)
Isaiah 46:10
Eze 36:22-28
Col 1:16
Pslams 115:3
Romans 11:33
Jer 32:17
Isaiah 61:1
Eph 1:4-6
Eph 2:8-9
Proverbs 19:21
Free will outside of God’s “Sovereignty” is what Lucifer sought out for and we know how that worked out. The rest was…… HIStory. Praise the Lord for His written Revelation and His Spirit that enables the once natural man, to now comprehend it in spirit and in truth.
Well stated, but I think there are a lot of people who are trying to define free will as something that it is not. Instead of autonomy, they want to define it as authority. They seem to think that free will means that someone can do whatever they want without consequences.
Jesus says our wills are enslaved by sin.
@@willbrown6298, okay? Since when have slave been unable to do anything but what their master told them to do? There's a whole book of the Bible that is there because a slave ran away. Being enslaved doesn't equal lacking free will.
@@TimothyFish The human will, the very seat of our desires is enslaved, I think that's pretty self explanatory and the ramifications are evident. Either our desires (the will) are enslaved or they're not.
The example you gave is essentially someone enslaved socially, but their heart is not enslaved to their master.
@@willbrown6298, when Jesus used the slave analogy in John 8, he wasn't telling people what it meant to be slaves; he was countering the Jews view that they didn't have a need to be freed. He isn't writing them off as being unable to admit that they need to be set free, rather he is using triggering language. If there was nothing they could do about it, there would be no point in him doing that.
Could we be conflating the softening of the heart when the gospel is presented with the regenerating work of God in our lives?
What I’m understanding from Corey is that regeneration occurs when God softens our hearts so that we can place our trust in Him?
🙏🙏🙏
God did not soften the heart he replaced it Ezekiel 36:25-27
@@RenardGarzaro Amen! New Heart! Can’t argue with that! A new heart that is capable of follow Him till the end!
🙏🙏🙏
36:14 Jesus is the fulfillment of all the teachings. Is it not that simple?
I'm one of those who stopped listening to Dr. Flowers because he's obsessed with Calvinism. He's soteriology channel has nothing but going after Calvinists and sometimes gets what they believe wrong.
I've listened to him to conclude that he rationalizes God's infinite mind with his own very finite mind which makes him mostly trying to make God look better to his audience and people he's trying to reach. God is loving, he's justice and wrath is also part of his attributes. Here is the Lord saying in
Isaiah 55:8-9 NKJV
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” says the LORD. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts
Amen. Run from anyone who feels the need to bring the lofty things of God down to their own understanding or even worse, play God's lawyer. Any sinner who has truly received mercy and has been spiritually reconciled with God is just happy to be in the family.
He talks about Calvin is a more than he does the actual scripture
This is sad, Corey. If you are honest the way Dr. Leighton flowers handled the text compared to a walk through of John 6 having to read everywhere else before getting to John 6, is what is wrong with the Christian church. I come out of a oneness background, and that's the method of interpretation forget what the text says, find what I like fits my teaching, and interpret everything else that way. It's sad seeing so many people hold to that type of handling of the Word of God. So sad 😔
This makes zero sense....this is literally proper hermeneutics and the exact way that you prove the trinity. This is how you develop any doctrine, is not by isolating verses and ignoring other, but by taking in the whole counsel of scripture.
Are you talking about the video or the comment
Why does Jesus draw? "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Leighton covered that at timecode 30:45 in the debate. So, you are incorrect that he didn't cover the "why".
You said Jesus draw us. Jesus said no one can come to him unless God draws him. It’s two different drawings there.
@@RenardGarzaro, yes, because it's two different points in history. During the time that Jesus was on Earth, preparing to go to the cross, he was hiding himself from many because he was making use of their unbelief to send him to the cross. Once he had been lifted up on the cross, he no longer needed to hide, so then he could draw all, not just a few people.
The was not the what he was talking about, we all know he said that is why he gave his son, they answer to why is because of the condition of man's heart, only good ground (heart) will be saved. To get a new heart you must be born of water and spirit (born again) like Jesus said. It was written in the scripture Jeremiah 31:31-35 and Ezekiel 37:25-27 where God how is the one talking in these scriptures said he will take out your heart of stone and put in a heart of flesh, wash you with water, put my spirit in you and cause you to walk in my ways. God was the one talking and he did not ask Israel to do anything. There is not one gospel for Israel and another one for the gentiles.
@@RenardGarzaro, Jesus is the one who gives us a new heart. That's why we need Jesus. You want to say that we have to have a new heart before God would choose to save us and since salvation is having Jesus that we need a new heart before we can have Jesus. What's the point of Jesus dying if God gives us a new heart without Jesus?
@@TimothyFish I did not say that, God was the one talking in Ezekiel and Jeremiah, he was the one who said he would wash with water, he said he would put his spirit in you and cause you to walk in his ways, I was not there to say any of that.
The scripture informs us that the Law served as a teacher to impart a crucial lesson. What lesson was intended for us to learn? The scripture/law was meant to convey that mankind could never consistently adhere to the commandments; despite occasional devotion to God, people would inevitably revert to their own ways.
God identified the root of this issue as the condition of man's heart. In Jeremiah 17:9-10 of the New King James Version, it is stated: “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; Who can know it? I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings.”
God provided a solution for Israel, which Jesus extended to include all of us. Jesus, in conversation with Nicodemus, alluded to this solution. Much like Nicodemus, many fail to grasp Jesus's assertion that one must be born again. This reference ties back to God's solution outlined in Jeremiah 18 and Ezekiel 36:25-27. It reads, "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."
It is notable that God Himself speaks in this passage, indicating that He initiates the change. He promises to put his spirit in them, enabling them to follow His ways. This process may sound deterministic, yet it predates the influence of John Calvin.
Jesus's words in John 10 further affirm this inclusivity, stating, "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." Therefore, being born anew allows one to make the right choice regarding God. This understanding underscores the reason why believers pray for the salvation of sinners. In essence, such prayers entreat God to transform hearts, enabling individuals to comprehend the gospel, believe in it upon hearing, and persevere in their faith.
The drawing is necessary because of man's inability (which is the essence of total depravity, which you deny). We don't have the ability to come because we are spiritually dead and controlled by our unregenerate sinful nature, referred to as being "in the flesh" in Romans 8. The unregenerate nature (the flesh) is hostile to God. Those who are in the flesh (unregenerate) cannot please God and therefore cannot believe unless regenerated since faith pleases God.
God regenerates sinners through his word. "Of his own will begat he us through the word of truth." James 1:18. He grants faith to those he regenerates (Philippians 1:29). Their hostility is removed and they desire Christ because of their new nature. This is why God teaches those he intends to draw. Leighton claims that John 5 teaches that everyone is taught by the Father. John 5 denies that in verse 37 where is says "You have NEVER heard His voice nor seen His form." Leighton needs to assume that God is teaching people who refuse to listen and learn. John 6:45 does not talk about multiple groups of people. There is only one people group and that is those who both hear and learn from the father as a result of his teaching them. The effectiveness of the teaching is implied as EVERYONE who hears and learns comes. Just as everyone who the Father gives to Jesus comes to Jesus in verse 37. It is repetition for emphasis. We're talking about irresistible grace essentially.
God chooses nobody for salvation. It's a hard fact most people cannot wrap their head around due to their presuppositions. He desires salvation for all (100% of humanity) but doesn't get it. Yes, God often doesn't get what He wants. The term 'election' or 'choosing' is obviously in the bible. That's not up for debate. Some version of choose or elect is found 220+ times in the bible. I've studied each. What is up for debate, is if the church properly understands the meaning or if they are largely influenced by Augustine's mistakes. Because both Calvinism and Arminianism are downstream of Augustine and his presuppositions ... a great many mistakes are made in this debate as a result. Fighting over whether election is individual or corporate for salvation is the wrong question. It's neither.
A big issue on this subject is the misunderstanding of Eph 1:4-5 -- people use their modern idea of adoption rather than the authors definition of the word. People that assume adoption means going from outside the family of God to being chosen before the foundation to be included in the family of God, they are mistaken. It's an easy mistake to make, but it's a mistake none-the-less. Adoption is something believers are awaiting. What? I'll say it again. It's something the author explains IS NOT the moment you're saved here on earth, but rather, a thing those who are already saved are still waiting for. You want chapter and verse right? Good. Paul, same author of both letters (books), defines adoption in Romans 8 verse 23 -- "Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies."
Presuppositions get in the way of Sola Scriptura ... they are lenses through which we read error onto the pages. Yes, we all have them, but we CAN work to overcome them. Carefully study scripture like a detective, working diligently not to contaminate the scene. Don't think like an Augustinian, or a Platonist, or whatever else. God bless you all, I pray you dig into the bible with care to never make it say something it actually has no intention saying.
It is true that, in order to be saved, a person must make the choice to believe. Most believers can point to a time in which they considered the claims of Christ and surrendered to Him. We chose to surrender in faith; if we had not chosen to do so, we could not be saved. However, examining Scripture and looking back on the process of our salvation, we recognize God’s hand at work all along the way-we see the conviction of the Holy Spirit; we see how God was changing our unregenerate hearts to enable us to believe; we see the series of events that God orchestrated so that we could hear the gospel.
We have a relationship with God because God chose to pursue a relationship with us and win us over. Some object that God does this with everyone. But, if that were the case, then the reason some people believe and others don’t is that some were more genuine, spiritually attuned, or morally sensitive. That would mean that some measure of innate human goodness enables some people to believe. If people contribute of their own goodness to salvation, we have a logical problem. More importantly, we have a biblical problem.
Scripture teaches that God has chosen to save some people, and He chose them based on His own purposes, not some innate goodness on the part of the people being saved. Nor was His choice based on His advance knowledge of what decisions they would make. Paul describes God as the One who “chose us in [Christ] before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves” (Ephesians 1:4-6).
In Ephesians 1:11-14, Paul explains how God’s choice and our faith work together: “In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession-to the praise of his glory.” The whole plan is for God’s glory and for the good of those whom He has chosen to save. Contrary to much popular teaching, the plan of salvation is not about us; it is about God.
The doctrine of election is clearly taught in Scripture. The Bible even speaks of those who belong to God who have not yet believed in Him. God has chosen them, and they belong to Him, even though they have yet to come to faith. To the unbelieving religious leaders, Jesus says, “You do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me” (John 10:26). Notice the cause and effect in His statement. He does not say, “You are not my sheep because you do not believe”; rather, He says, “You do not believe because you are not my sheep.” In verse 16, Jesus speaks of other sheep who will believe once they hear His voice. Those who are predestined to be saved will be saved.
In Corinth, there were only a handful of believers, and Paul was facing persecution, but Jesus appeared to him in a vision and said, “Do not be afraid; keep on speaking, do not be silent. For I am with you, and no one is going to attack and harm you, because I have many people in this city” (Acts 18:9-10). Corinth was not full of believers at the time, but it was full of the elect-people whom God had chosen and who would come to faith when they heard the message.
Some might ask, why bother sharing the gospel if God has already chosen to save some? The answer is that He commands us to share the gospel. We evangelize to bring God glory and because the preaching of the gospel is the way He has chosen to save the elect. Writing from a Roman prison and awaiting execution, Paul explains to Timothy why he is willing to endure hardship for the gospel: “Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory” (2 Timothy 2:10).
Some may charge that God’s plan is simply unfair-some are chosen to be saved while others are passed over and have no chance. This objection often assumes a faulty picture of salvation, one in which people are lining up to be saved, pleading with God to save them, but He says, “No, I have not chosen you. Your name’s not on the list, so I reject you.” But that’s not what happens. The reality is that everyone is given a choice to obey God, and everyone, great and small, chooses to sin. Scripture reveals that, in His grace, God has chosen to save some in spite of their rebellion. He works in their hearts and wins them over. The others God simply allows to continue in the ways they have freely chosen and desire to continue in. Those who reject Christ do so freely. Those who receive Christ also do so freely, but only because God has worked in their hearts to win them over so that they now want to receive Him. God is perfectly free; He is obligated to save no one, and the fact that He saves some shows that He is loving.
No one is saved without the election and predestination of God. If there were no election and predestination, the entire human race would be eternally lost. The only reason a rebellious sinner ever comes to faith in Christ is that God has chosen to win him over instead of allowing him to continue down the path to destruction. God is in charge. “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb” (Revelation 7:10).
Ive been going down this rabbit hole, and it has been getting ever increasingly confusing. As long as i trust in Jesus and Jesus alone I am saved correct? I dont have to distinclt adhere to one of these doctrines for salvation correct? Im getting a bit worried. All i know is Jesus is the Messiah, He is the only way of Salvation, He is God, He is Risen. I will keep studying his word
Going over this video again, to answer your question about “drawing” in John 6:44 Corey and who are the “all” there that heard and learned, I would point to
John 6:65 NASB95
And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me ***unless it has been granted*** him from the Father."
And that would be just one from a sea of text that basically says it is the work of God alone in man that enables man to hear and learn
Corey, thanks for all you do, can you please put the time line in a word document save it as PDF and make it available?
It’s normal for us being human, living in these bodies to be bothered by certain things
Headline is dishonest and misleading. I don’t know of a single non-Calvinist that believes that salvation precedes regeneration. What we object to is the erroneous and nonscriptural idea that regeneration precedes faith in God’s plan of redemption. We contest that idea because it can’t be found in the Bible.
1 Peter 1:3 NASB2020
[3] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
To be born again ->>
TO ->>
A living hope
It's right there.
@@jayrodriguez84
Jay,
From a dyed in the wool Calvinist, I would expect you of all people to know one of the great sola fide passages of the New Covenant, namely this from Romans 10, “But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”-that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.” ✝️🙏🏼
@@jayrodriguez84Ephesians 1 actually states one is sealed with the Holy Spirit WHEN they believe, not before.
@@johntrevett2944 The seal is not regeneration. The seal refers to the fact that the Holy Spirit will never leave upon(also stated as after) believing. Why will the Holy Spirit never leave? Because the spiritual birth has already happened.
@@jayrodriguez84 So you're saying New Testament believers can be indwelt with the Holy Spirit but not yet sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption? Please back that claim up with scripture.
We can’t teach predestination. But that the way it is. Who so ever let come. But your up bring make you. Sinner, Holy, Love, Faith, Trust. Can you give the flesh this world. And totally submit trust God.
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Exodus 12:21-24
[21] Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.
[22] And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.
[23] For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
[24] And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.
Psalm 3:8
Salvation belongeth unto the LORD: Thy blessing is upon thy people. Selah.
What is your point?
@@RenardGarzaro The salvation of man was the same in the Old Testament as it is today. They were saved by grace through faith in Christ; the same as New Testament believers. They looked forward to the cross and we look back to the cross.
@@RenardGarzaro Also, there is first a calling then, a drawing in both instances.
@@driver26swx31 if you don’t understand, Jesus Jesus, the man was not in the old Testament/covenant. The scripture in Hebrews says if the old covenant was good, we wouldn’t need the new covenant. The old covenant sacrifice, bulls and goats the new covenant sacrifice Jesus. No one went to heaven until Jesus if they could go to heaven, Jesus wouldn’t need to have come.
@@driver26swx31 how come Jesus didn’t say that? You added that.
It could not be the teaching that draws other wise how was Abraham saved?
I love the intro fight music. It sounds like we’re getting ready to rumble! ❤❤❤
Anyone who refutes the Doctrines of Grace does not believe in a Sovereign God.
It is the Man-centered Gospel that requires man to have absolute agency over all he seeks and works toward in Life.
Having passion doesn't invalidate the quality of someone's arguments.
Ezekiel 37 "The valley of dry bones" is a clear biblical OT teaching on the doctrine of Regeneration.
You are correct but it did not happen in the old covenant, God speaking of the new covenant coming. Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
The only way to be regenerated is by being born from above (born again). Jesus said this to Nicodemus, he was referring to Ezekiel 37:25-27 -
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
The New Covenant came through Jesus and Jesus was not revealed in the old testament.
@@RenardGarzaro To say that the the doctrine of Regeneration is not taught in the Old testament is saying that no one under the old covenant at the time could have been made alive in Christ. The Holy Spirit(the regenerator ie the one who quickens one to life in Christ is present everywhere in the Bible NT and OT who also regenerates. If God didn't Regenerate in the ot then God is being limited. God is the same God in the old as well as the NT.
God does as he pleases when he wants to.
@@JamesJones-qi1pcBut he only does what is written in the scripture. The scripture says in Hebrews, if the old covenant was good we would not need the new covenant.
@@JamesJones-qi1pcWhat was taught in the old testament was about what would come if eternal salvation was in the old testament, Jesus would not have had to come, which is why gave the new covenant, the old one was temporary. Read Hebrews. How is God limited?
Leighton Flowers dismantled James White in that debate.
You are delusional
Which debate did you watch?....dumbest statement on the comment thread
Lol...and yet he's still wrong!
@@MinLeeMajors how so?
I wonder what would Jesus say about the titles we come up with about what we believe, like " deterministic theorist"
We're humans. Those titles are descriptive..its how we communicate. Its quick ways of passing on as much information as possible using as few words as possible .
its like telling someone you're a Christian. Its one word. But it comes with so many connotation .you now have a bearing on that person's perspective without having a long conversation.
Jesus would expect us to communicate which is what language is.
Corey did a great job in his debate against Leighton. I found that Corey, as recent as he may be to social media but perhaps not the scriptures, did a more thorough walk through of the text than Leighton did in their debate.
Good video brotha Corey God bless your ministry 🤙🏾🙏🏾🇦🇸
Gideon...Samuel were drawn???
nope.
@@remnant8898 then who? LoL!
@@Hakeem597you tell me! lol
@@remnant8898 Bro I don't know I'm really asking....I know its not Enoch or Elijah. LOL. He took them...not drew them. Well he took Elijah....Enoch went out on a Sunday morning stroll with God and didn't come back.
Not to Jesus, he said drawn to him.
You must hear 👂 in order to believe
I appreciate all the Calvinists uniting on UA-cam to clean up Jimmy's messes from the last string of debates. The ol' fella was truly rattled.
The scripture informs us that the Law served as a teacher to impart a crucial lesson. What lesson was intended for us to learn? The scripture/law was meant to convey that mankind could never consistently adhere to the commandments; despite occasional devotion to God, people would inevitably revert to their own ways.
God identified the root of this issue as the condition of man's heart. In Jeremiah 17:9-10 of the New King James Version, it is stated: “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; Who can know it? I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings.”
God provided a solution for Israel, which Jesus extended to include all of us. Jesus, in conversation with Nicodemus, alluded to this solution. Much like Nicodemus, many fail to grasp Jesus's assertion that one must be born again. This reference ties back to God's solution outlined in Jeremiah 18 and Ezekiel 36:25-27. It reads, "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."
It is notable that God Himself speaks in this passage, indicating that He initiates the change. He promises to put his spirit in them, enabling them to follow His ways. This process may sound deterministic, yet it predates the influence of John Calvin.
Jesus's words in John 10 further affirm this inclusivity, stating, "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." Therefore, being born anew allows one to make the right choice regarding God. This understanding underscores the reason why believers pray for the salvation of sinners. In essence, such prayers entreat God to transform hearts, enabling individuals to comprehend the gospel, believe in it upon hearing, and persevere in their faith.
Leighton Flowers won the debate with James White.
But lost the war.
@@RenardGarzaro yeah, whatever...
War? Really?
From the eisegesis and narcissism view yes he did. His cross examination proved this
@@josiahpulemau6214 "narcissism"? Man, or woman, you are full of it.
@@josiahpulemau6214 you are full of it, just in case no one has ever told you this before.
This was an excellent deep dive. Thank you Corey🙌🙌🙌🙌
John 8:32,36...Now it's time to shout!
Leighton says God draws in many ways creation conscious the prophets apostles the word and of vourse the holy spirit and jesus says he will draw all after he is raised up.
Why Leighton is wrong is the Jesus who is the author and the finisher of the faith said he would lose none of them that the father gives him, according to Leighton that is everyone and everyone is not going to heaven.
@@RenardGarzaro he chose judas the father gave him judas or he could not come to him.
But judas of his own free will walked and fell away from the faith confessed repented and gave the money back and apparently killed himself.
Did jesus lose him?
No.
Judas lost Jesus
Peter denied three times this doubted over 5000 followers wAlked away from jesus.
But jesus still lived and savied who ever believed.
@@RenardGarzaro Leighton never said everyone is going to heaven rusts a false accusation of a brother.🤥😖
He said God has made provision through the blood of jesus that salvation as available to every man woman buy and girl who believe in him far salvation🤔
That's a huge difference.🤫
Give diligence to make your calling and election sure 2 Pet 1:10. If your election is sure, just ignore the apostle's exhortation, and listen to every wind of doctrine.
Reading is fundamental.
All of the warnings in the Bible are for people who think they’re Christian and are not, how else would you tell them?
What does the word election mean?
We are drawn by the father to Christ and the only way to the father is through Christ.
100 percent disagree with you on virtually all points.
Making it clear you believe john 3.16 boldly is nothing to be ashamed of.
That whosoever beleves and all can believed will be daved.
Not based on being picked for salvation or passed over for damnation.
But grace through faith.
It is not Grace if it was based on your decision making and the faith you provided, you are a good smart person, who was smart enough to chose Jesus and smart enough to have faith and strong enough to endure until the end, what a great person you are.
God provides the new heart and then you chose.
Jesus talking to Nicodemus about being saved, you must be born again (born from above).
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
@@RenardGarzaro stop spewing Calvinists lies and talking points please.
Teach the bible, not theological systematic.
The Grace is God lets you as a human have free will choose to accept him and by his grace you are saved, and he not you or me decided to set it up his way, through faith.
You might not like that...too bad.
Again your faith is like filthy rags to God and does not save you or help God save you, it is not a salvation meriting work as Paul continually points out we are saved.
Thats why we cannot boast about faith, why boast about sinful filthy rags.
Instead we boast about Gods grace that has given provision for every man boy woman and girl to be saved by him.
It is man's responsibility and ability to accept or reject God and we all deserve hell, no one is denying that faith or not.
God has decided not to be a respecter of persons, choosing some adults and infants for salvation, while passing over other adults and infants for certain damnation created to be destroyed with no chance at redemption ever.
Instead Jesus draws all and God uses this word the gospel and other witnesses and means as he power unto salvation.
God gets all the glory and is not dependent on anyone.
Calvinist UNCONFITIONAL electiin irritable grace is falsely ekection false belief false grace because they person has not free will or choice to accept or reject what is being put on them, they are just a brainless puppet commanded to act and behave in a certain way, that's not grace, that evil robotic souless manipulation and take over of a Humana God given free will human by force.
Which leads to forced fake belief or no belief at all.
After you believe you receive a new heart and all things become new as the biblical text says you are regenerated or saved if you will only after you believe not before.
You have the order of salvation completely backwards.
You were not saved first and then believe, you believed and were saved...come on now?
That defies logic making you the worlds first and only saved unbeliver.🤔🙄🤭
John 3.16
God does not force salvation on any one nor damnation.
You are responsible to believe or reject and you "can" do either or, and eventually will, and not by force or predestination, but by choice.
That's how you know its real faith accepting Gods grace or real rejection of God's grace and salvation.
I hate that when you actually believe the Bible, people label you as a Calvinist. Oh well, I guess that's the culture for you; people can't live happy without labelling you...
predestination If you are Lost( unsaved) you are damned to HELL and there os NOTHING you can personally do about! If you have accepted Jesus uou atr going to Heaven (saved) and there is NOTHING you can do to change it! Hebrews 7:26-28
So your don't believe they bible of you dare not.
Labels will fly off going up or burn off going down
Asking if there is a regeneration in the old testament is as same as asking if people of the old testament were children of God. There's regeneration simply because you can't be called children of God if you are not regenerated and we seen even Adam and Eve being called children of God
If Jesus is the only way to the father, and no is justified without the blood of Jesus, how were they born again?
Leighton needs to understand WE DO NOT WANT GOD ON OUR OWN! Therefore, we need the Spirit to open our dead heart to the gospel. I do think he throws the baby out with the bathwater.
"We need the Spirit to open our dead hearts to the gospel". The Gospel is enough. It is the sharpest point of the Spirit's sword (Scriptures/God's Word). When presented in evangelism/mission/preaching, it can pierce a dead heart allowing God's grace to flow in.
predestination If you are Lost( unsaved) you are damned to HELL and there os NOTHING you can personally do about! If you have accepted Jesus uou atr going to Heaven (saved) and there is NOTHING you can do to change it! Hebrews 7:26-28
@@wanttopreach Predestination is when God says all things work together for the good to them the love him and are call according to his purpose. If you are going to copy and paste at least edit your mistakes.
@@CoffeeCoffeeCoffee86 that's not true. I was born in a loving Christian home and I knew about Jesus at a very young age and I wanted to know him and I never thought about going the opposite direction!
@@petefults5984
No.
That’s not the same.
Basically it starts with “do you want to go to heaven with mom and dad?” “ then believe in Jesus!”
I do t see that in scripture.
Repent. Die to self.
That is biblical.
Of course my kid grows up in church, but that does not make him a Christian.
Yes my wife and I point him to Jesus, but we are very quick to say YOU must choose. We can’t choose for you.
Many Calvinists channels said Leighton won..go figure.
But does the scripture say?
@@RenardGarzaro the scripture agrees.
John 3.16
What are you talking about? Leighton main point is that everyone who will read v45 will come up with a natural understanding of the passage. Anyone who reads this will have the same interpretation. If you don't insert presupposition.
All and everyone is the same group of people, but there is distinction. Everyone is the collected group from all people who learned. It doesn’t necessarily follow that all learned, and everyone has the same quantity as all. White arguments is all = everyone. But everyone doesn't necessarily means all. It depends upon a condition.
Ex.
The teacher taught all his students. Everyone who listened and learned passed the exam.
If All student is 100 students and from that, 50 passed the exam. It simply follows that "everyone" correspond to the 50 students from "all" students. They are not equal.
Everyone who listens and learned is not the same as Everyone listened and learned.
I don't get how Calvinist don't get the usage of a simple collective word in a sentence.
I don't know how you can present v45 more plainly. What evidence should Leighton say if you can not understand the simple usage of words in a sentence. Dr. Flower sighted gazillion verses to support the natural interpretation.
What Corey is saying is that in the Greek the words hears and learned cannot be separated. In other words, those who heard have/had learned. Hears AND learned, they are one.
@@kevinruggerio1796 But it's not the case. Either in Greek or in English. We are basically talking grammar and sentence. In plain English what does it mean when you read "those who", God taught them and "those who" listened and learned. The teacher taught them and those who listened and learned passed the exam. The difference is you read it as God taught them, so they listened and learned. Insertion of the word "those who" made it conditional.
My translation, NASB, reads “Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me” and the Greek Interlinear reads, “ having heard from the Father and having learned comes to Me”. There is no “those who”, what translation are you using. To me when I read both translation I’ve stated, heard is not separate from learned because “and” connects them. The ones drawn have both heard and learned.
@@kevinruggerio1796 Same thing, those who or everyone who, basically means whoever listened and learned comes to me, unlike the Calvinist presupposition that say everyone listened, so everyone learned so they come to me because the Father draws them. Completely ignoring the word "who". And the whole context the chapter. Yes, the one who listened and learned belong to the same group of people but not necessarily the same quantity. Some just listened and some listened and at the same time learned.
Ex. Everyone who played basketball and scored, became famous. "And" is a conjunction but as an additional condition in the statement to become famous. Everyone who played may not become famous. Why? they didn't contribute to winning. Everyone who played and scored become famous. Why? not because they just played but they scored and contributed something to the team.
Another one: If you press enter the comment will be posted.
If you press shift and enter the cursor will move to the next line below.
AND in the 2nd statement joins the 2 conditions into 1 clause. If you just press shift nothing will happen but if you press shift and enter the cursor will move to the next line below. I cannot explain more plainly than that.
@@RTPGCONot so. Let’s take the Greek Interlinear for this example. “Everyone having heard from the Father and having learned comes to Me”. If the “having heard” and “having learned” are two different groups, then according to the verse, both groups come to Christ. Then we would be looking at everyone just hearing the word of God would come to Christ just because they heard? Sounds like Universalism to me.
Dr. Flowers won the debate. Period. And he won it for one and only reason - he was biblical versus White was philosophical.
Thanks for sharing this video. I greatly appreciate you.
If God already chose His believers then Jesus did not have to die it would make no sense ❤
The scripture says we were chosen before the foundation of the world, he also said Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world. Sin still required atonement, so that is why Jesus came.
Calvinist are making this way too difficult. John 5 comes before John 6. The Jews are saying that they have a relationship with the Father and are not going to accept Jesus’s claim as being the Son. Jesus said that he and the Father are one. If you had a relationship with the Father you would automatically know me as the Son. John 6:44-45 is affirming that a Jew’s faith toward the Father was effectual toward the Son. The Father would draw those to the Son who already had a relationship with him. The Jew who already had a relationship with the father would effectually hear and learn and automatically come to the Son.
Jews who were faithfully following the father were not going to be lost when they transferred their faith from the Father to the Son because they knew they were one. Hence Jesus said - 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
You added " a Jew’s faith toward the Father was effectual toward the Son", this is not in the text. You should not make up stuff, say what the scripture says, nowhere did your " The Father would draw those to the Son who already had a relationship with him", you added this, it is not in the text. Where did you get that there is a "transfer of faith from one to another"? If he drew everyone than everyone would go to heaven because he said he would lose none. Don't add anything to the text, God us what he wanted us to have.
@@RenardGarzaro Jews were able to have a relationship with the Father through the prophets and scripture under the OT. Many did; most did not. Those that did were drawn to the Son effectually through the Father.
“And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.” These are the faithful Jews who already had faith in the Father.
The Father ensured that Jesus would not be a stumbling block to the Jew who was already faithfully following him.
The Calvinists believe that 6:44-45 is in reference to the elect when in fact it’s in reference to the faithful Jew who is already following the Father.
Since Christ has been exalted the Father no longer draws or judges - the Son does.
@@RenardGarzaro When one exegetes a portion of scripture you still have to consider the context. You have to consider who the audience is and how would they understand what is being said. If you isolate a text from the fuller text you will only create a proof text for your biases.
Who is Jesus talking to? Jews. These the same Jews who are following him around from chapter 5. The Jews are saying they can have a relationship with the Father and still deny the Son.
Jesus is not denying the relationship they could have with the Father. That was the intent of OT until the coming of the Messiah. Jesus is reminding them that if they had a relationship with the Father they would automatically recognize him as the Son because they are one.
Calvinists are right about the exegesis of John 6:44-45. They are just inserting a different group of hearers than the ones in the text.
@@paullaymon5746He says it must be granted by the father. This means the father decides.
John 6:65 (NASB95): 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”
@@paullaymon5746 Do you realize 99% of the scripture is written to the Jews? Do you believe there is a gospel for the Jews and another gospel for the gentiles? The scripture tells us way we have the Old covenant.
Paul calls the old covenant "the ministry of condemnation" because it exposes our guilt and worthiness of God's judgment. It was designed to show people that they constantly violated God's moral standards, and that God demanded death as the payment for their violations.
John 6:44-45 has nothing to do with John Calvin because he did not write any inspired scripture, and he is not mentioned in the inspired scripture. There is only one gospel and it is for the Jews but Jesus included the gentiles.
“Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too” (Romans 3:29). Jesus was the Jewish Messiah, but He had come to offer salvation to everybody. The Messiah was to be a “light for the Gentiles” (Isaiah 42:6). So call on Jesus, because “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved” (Acts 2:21).
Calvinism: where God sends someone to hell for not believing in something He never did for them.
mis characterization of fellow believers is unbecoming. And by all means disregard sin
@@86lanzo Actually that's a very good way to describe Calvinism.
Belief is the line between life and punishment. Belief in what though? In Jesus' death for our sins? Except in Calvinism Jesus never died for those people's sins.
@@86lanzo it wasn't a mis characterization .... just not phrased in a more palatable and sanctimonious way.
By stating it as a mis characterization, do you believe God provided a way of salvation for everyone or only (calvinistic) elect?
It would be a mis characterization of calvinism to say that the OP was a mis characterization.
"And by all means disregard sin" ... did not God foreordain all sin for His glory? James White says if it wasn't decreed by God then it would be meaningless. John Macarthur says God wills evil to exist.
No they send themselves to hell by being a sinner and loving their sin. Without a divine election we cannot be saved because we cannot love God like how birds cannot breathe under water.
@@unitedstates3068yes God does will evil to exist but not by how you are misinterpreting it. He wills it by allowing it to happen knowing that it will happen therefore willing it to happen. E g. Judas betraying Christ, pontas pilate and the high priest kill him for the redemption of mankind. He predestined it to happen.
Yes they could come to the Lord in the old testament but it was in the waiting and they were drawn by the father solely and that continues to today.
It is written that we should not debate or argue over the word.......but I see we are all disobedient......smh......
I noticed you didn’t quote the scripture, where is it written.
At the end of it all, Calvinists & provisionists are using the same 'words' but meaning WILDLY different things.
Might as well be speaking different languages altogether.
Flowers seems to have 'made the switch" as is he is now "Famous" hahahhaahhaahhahahha.
They came but didn't know they were being drawn. Because Jesus was revealed in the old testament
Where did you read that in the scripture or are you just making that up, we should get what we believe from the scripture.
Listen to Jesus, not Paul. You are not saved by grace. You are saved by obeying the teachings of Jesus. This is clearly what Jesus clearly taught. You have been informed; it's up to you to listen.
***
Matthew 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?" Then I will tell them plainly, "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"
Even those who have enough faith in Jesus to perform miracles and cast out demons and prophesy will not go to heaven unless they do the will of God. Jesus is very clear about this. You can have all the faith in the world in Jesus and call upon his name until you are blue in the face, but if you do not obey his teachings, you will not be allowed into the Kingdom of Heaven.
*
Matthew 17:5 While Jesus was still speaking a bright cloud covered them and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my son whom I love. With him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”
Observe, no mention of Paul.
John 8:34-35 Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.
John 8:47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.
John 12:49-50 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. I know that His command leads to eternal life, so whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.
John 14:6 I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:15-17 If you love me, keep my commands, and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever, the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
John 14:23-24 Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching.
John 15:13-14 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command.
John 15:18-20 If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also.
***
"Listen to Jesus, Not Paul" - composed by Isho
Paul is an Apostle of Christ.
Be obedient to Jesus our only Lord and Savior ❤ Amen There is ONLY One 🙏
This is very clear, thank you 🙏
@@ForeverCreatingYou don’t listen to him. Paul is an Apostle of Christ that proclaims the same Gospel our Lord brought.
Yikes, might want to dust off that Bible and cruise over to Eph 2:8-9 where it states we are saved by grace through faith. Take your Judiazer false gospel to the outhouse where it belongs.
No because every born Adam have his nature(being a sinner). Until born after God into the Kingdom. Holy like God you have God character. Now you are his Son.
This was perhaps the worst review of this debate I have seen so far, it is extremely biased, but I expected as much, based in Coreys earlier videos usually critical of Flowers.
Never the less its good you state your views and try to say you are and not and kinda yes kinda no.
C
34:00 What concerns me is the estimated 100 billion plus souls who have already lived and died, in demographic regions where there have been multiple generations who knew only pagan ideas of spirituality. Even in Church age times, to simple message of the Gospel seems to have been compromised in masses , even is 2nd 3rd pre catholic ( Constatine / Augustinian thought ) , Those of us listening to this have had the great privilege of having the written scriptures in our generation, yet so many, including myself are vexed by the confusion of this debate, I like to believe that no matter messed up in doctrine, practice, are saved If they once heard the Grace of GOD ( which i did, almost 50 years ago this summer ) At 65, with failing health, I'm not encouraged by this debate, though I'm more encouraged by Leighton Flowers. Dr James White and Dr Micheal Brown ( Calvinist / Arminian ) have been a discouragement to me for years being that they cause me to doubt my Salvation though from different scriptural logic.
Dont let that trouble "you..will not the judge of the earth do right??If anything Im more worried about us than the ppl who died without hearing of Christ. God will Judge us in accordance with the amount of light we have been given.
whether that's natural revelation, special revelation etc.
these debates are for the most part conversations among brethern.and this has been going on from the start of the church. From Paul confronting peter or the many councils the church has had solidify doctrine, we're called to love the Lord with our minds and that involves studying and discussing his word.
God Bless
No one wins in these debates… the 2 sides just “draw” farther apart as they both refuse to “listen and learn” from one another…
🤷🏽🤷🏽🤷🏽
What if the other side is completely wrong, this is not a democracy everyone does not have a say, scripture only.
@@RenardGarzaro
What if both sides are wrong?
What if both sides are partially right?
What if God’s Grace extends to both sides?
What if not knowing exactly how salvation works isn’t that important to our salvation as long as Jesus lives in us?
What if we are making too much of this topic?
🤔🤔🤔
@@rjc9537If you understand the scripture, both sides are not wrong, one side is.
You can't be partially right, either God elects or he doesn't.
Grace means you do nothing, the other sides says you do something.
Not knowing how you are saved could be an indication you are not saved, because you have to believe Jesus is who he says he was, If he says he does the work and you say you do the work, you cannot be saved by your work and you don't believe Jesus is who he says he is.
Jesus said search the scripture for in them you think you have eternal life, these are they who testify of me. When you believe you do things to be saved you try to convince others to do things to be saved hence seeker driven churches.
Flowers never makes sense… draw, the word is not voluntary!
Also you cannot use the word faith unless you define it.. flowers never defines faith and uses it like a magic word!
Im sure nobody cares what i think but... how about we lower the temperature on this issue? Christians ready to fistfight over this topic. Chill.
It's because people want to be right. They don't wanna face it that God is in charge of this. It's strange in a way to value free will over God's choice an power.
@theveryamericaneagle3657 My concern is first, most people talk past each other on election. Second, it is usually brothers who are fighting. And lastly, people play fast and loose with the Scriptures. If anyone knows what election is, it would be Paul.
For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. (2 Corinthians 4:6, ESV)
Because it’s been overdone and is now low lying fruit for your average punter.
Easily your worst video ever.
Fully missing the points of contention completely.
Wow just wow.
This was more about corey being a calvinist or not being a calvinist then the debate.
Trying to have your cake and not gain weight.
any semi-pelagian "provisionist" is an open theist. james white understands that too well. the problem is that we dont think our doctrine through. calvinism is sound doctrine.
Any Calvinist is a decieved pawn of the Devil helping him spread lies about God like that God is glorified in the abuse of children which he decreed simultaneously with decreeing that some of those children grow up and die of a drug overdose and burn in hell forever. Calvinism is soundly satanic.
Calvinists are deterministic, who try to re-create God in their own image. Hence Calvinists worship a false god (an idol).
@@LindsayJackel Jesus said "search the scripture, for in them you think you have you have eternal life, these are they that testify of me" Saul thought he was right until he got knocked of the donkey. You might be serving the wrong God, you better search.
@@RenardGarzaroOr, more likely, you are wrong, and should start reading and following God and Scripture, and abandon worshipping the false god of calvinism and following the false calvinist gospel.
calvinism: God giving men what they deserve.
provisionism: Mankind taking what was theirs to begin with.
im a calvinist. im on God's team. not mankind's team
It's sad that so many calvinists, like YOU, are proud and arrogant (and wrong) because of your belief that you're special and chosen.
Corey, John 6 verse 44 comes before verse 45. In 44 you have to be drawn before you are taught and learned in 45.
Technically, 45 comes before 44, because in 45 he is talking about what the prophets said well before he made his statement in 44. So, they were either taught and they learned before they were drawn (using your view) or he's using 45 to expound upon what he means by them being drawn.
@@TimothyFish Are you saying there was an error in John 6 because 45 comes before 44 in your technical view? Are you saying the scribers made an error? Where in other scriptures you can make that same technical assertion? What does it mean drawn in the original Greek text?
How many times was the word drawn used in Chapter 6? I thought Jesus was referencing the OT in 45 . So in your view teaching comes before be drawn? Did Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit has the power to draw before teaching?
Here is 45:
It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.
- John 6:45
@@john318john , no, I don't think there is an error in John 6; I'm just pointing out that your view that the order puts the drawing before teaching doesn't work because the text that Jesus is referencing was written long before his statement in 44. Language doesn't work that way. Sometimes the order in which things are said gives us the order in which they occur, but sometimes they are said in that order because there is a desire to introduce the concept and then go back and explain that concept.
My view isn't that the teaching comes before the drawing. My view is that the teaching IS the drawing. To be able to come, one must be drawn/taught, because we wouldn't know that there is something to come to without being taught. Not everyone will believe what they are taught, but those who hear the teaching and learn/believe come to Jesus.
@@TimothyFish You added to the scripture, it does not say (drawn/taught), it just says drawn. Jesus told Peter flesh and blood does not reveal who the Son of man is, all of the messages in the world can't draw you, the implication in the statement Jesus made is that God reveals the gospel, not the delivery. Jesus said he that hath ears, doesn't everyone have ears? Jesus said in the parable of the sower that the ground is the heart and only one of the different soils was good, how do you get the good soil (heart)? I know because Jesus said it when he was talking to Nicodemus, he said you must be born of the water and spirit, Ezekiel 36:25-27 where God was doing the talking and the doing.
When you know how you are saved you don't questioned if you are elected or not. You cannot be saved by grace if you are not born from above and God does that without your help, after that you can chose him, abide in him, live for him because he said it.
@@RenardGarzaro, you are assuming that the drawing must be something mystical, rather than it being something practical. Where do you get the idea that God can't use the foolishness of preaching to draw people?
I watched it today
Drawing is regeneration. You can't become a Christian unless you are regenerated first. How is it that some hear the Word and still do worldly things and others hear the word and there is conviction and a change of heart.
Wrong. Calvinism is a false gospel. Belief precedes regeneration.
@@Cattleman16479 Belief precedes regeneration.
@@Cattleman16479 I didn't say that.
I'm just not engaging some random, like YOU, any extra time to play his pet calvinist word games.
@@LindsayJackel Hi Lindsey. Check out Romans 12:3 and Ephesians 2:8 where your faith comes from God. Also check out John 1:13 where John tells us you are reborn not by your (i.e. man's) will but God's will. The gift of faith is a part of God's grace to undeserving sinful man. God Bless.
@@Cattleman16479 It is word games if you're a calvinist. Calvinists aren't genuine in discussions. YOU are laser focused on trying to convert Christians to calvinism, asking gotcha questions, as a method to rebuff and promote calvinism, not listening to others and responding with deflection and denials.
So this is a stupid argument on predestination . To me it easy, If you are Lost( unsaved) you are damned to HELL and there os NOTHING you can personally do about! If you have accepted Jesus uou atr going to Heaven (saved) and there is NOTHING you can do to change it! Hebrews 7:26-28
The why would Jesus put it in his scripture, he said all scripture was profitable, mental assent does not get you in heaven.
U talk fast like him