This has to be the best Podcast about cs. The nuance of opinions, the back and forth between Maniac and Thorin and the space they leave themselfes to discuss a topic is just superb
Would love to see a video on the best decisions to leave a sinking ship and join a contender roster moves made by players. Sh1ro to spirit might be the best roster move in cs2 so far, so i’m curious when else something like this has happened thru the years of cs. Thanks again for the content!
Not the same thing at all but neo leaving VP to play with Faze, which later probably helped him get the gig as a coach with the team. Electronic also bailing from c9 to join VP
@@noxzy69better than staying in c9, plus overpass being gone (VP’s best/most comfortable map) where Norbert also performs his best there. Hinders them a lot but i don’t think it’s a flop, can it be better? Definitely but way better than in C9
Can’t believe Cadian got the boot because Twistzz’s calibre demands better results and Cadian couldn’t sort things out with his limited time, while Hooxi just chilling for 2 years and still couldn’t get Niko and m0nesy their major trophy.
lil context for zont1x at the major he was confirmed to be abit ill during the quarters but inspite of that he made that nuke ot call to do a lobby crunch vs faze that was crucial
High risk high reward, if he doesn’t pull his weight he’s gonna be a hinderance to the team because he plays the most impactful role, meaning the bar for him is higher than say magixx to perform
Team spirit as a whole is very excited. They play such a dynamic style through out rounds its always has you on the edge of your seat or rolling back laughing at how they are steam rolling. I think all our mouths are watering at what could come of the donk sh1ro combo within the next few years
After some time adjusting these New Thumbnails are still BANGERS bro tvat hypes it up way more i think what was missing in the beginning was showing the Name or people for that Show cause expectation was sometimes different
Whenever there is conversation about bring a HLTV 20 player to any X team make them better. I always quote this " Astralis was never the best of all time because they had 5 Hltv top 20 players. Astralis was best of all time because they all made each other Top 20 players." Few understand the difference.
Wow such great timing, I come back to watching cs2 since before the astralis era and the team im most interested in is team spirit 🎉 Also I love when players are overconfident, that’s why doublelift was my fav league player
LETS GO MANIAC! Never knew he was a big tennis fan. That's a thing I would love CS to emulate - the tennis grand slam cycle. If there's gonna be two "seasons" a year too the points could be predicated on that and they could even have certain locations have certain map pools, similar to the 4 different court styles in tennis ;)
My guess is that rushing the team into the major qualifiers killed the Liquid lineup. I’m sure they were all bought in and ready to run Cadians system, but that failure compiled with not getting any officials and I’m sure some bad results in practices made those star players lose confidence. After that it was probably an impossible challenge to rebuild it.
cadiaN said in early interviews that they had discussed styles and he had agreed to adapt his style. It seems now that he wasn't able to do that to a level he thought he would. And he should have, he had twistzz fragging out, NAF top 3-5 in his role and a very independent YEKI who has the capability. He had a mini FaZe clan circa a ropz change away.
19:36 I told you to stop smoking weed Falcons and Liquid are almost equally poor in terms of performance. The only difference is that Falcons changed a player mid-season, while Liquid retained the same lineup and did not make any progress .
I think the problem with TL is that some players (NAF and Twistzz) think an org is a democracy. Mate, as a member of the team, you’re getting payed thousands of dollars a month to play and to do whatever your igl wants you to. Also, as a coach/manager, is your job to make things work and to reach a proper chemistry between the players. Is Faze a democratic team? NAVI, Mouz, Astralis, Spirit? They go the way Karrigan, Aleksi, device, chopper tell them to
I'd absolutely take m0NESY for sh1ro. He's better, he plays with "old donk" essentially already. And sh1ro is weirdly unreliable in the biggest moments sometimes.
Seasons should be mirrored , you can't have random tournaments throughout the year and split them with a break then call it two seasons , that's dumb , also team awards individual awards , they're all about the Year (Team of the year , Player of the year , Journalist of the year) .
1:13:30 again , wtf are you talking about ? Do you think the T side is good because Apex's calling is actually decent ? Are you blind ? Zywoo with 23% opening attempt rate with 60% success rate is the main reason these T sides are even working , adding to that the work Flamez has to put in entries also , then you just have a 4v3 or a 4v2 and your job as Apex is to plant the bomb , throw flashes and not die , there is no insane defaults and tactical fakes , if you watch the game, the calls are just move like a pack and get an entry. Their Problem on the CT side is Apex and Mezzi . They both are under-preforming based on their positions : Mezzii is the worst preforming non-IGL player in the top 6 period , with the departure of nexa . Apex is the worst player in the Top 20 in comparison to players in his position on the CT side . We have Zywoo's underperformance in a couple if important maps , Spinx inconsistency in the Playoffs and sometimes Flamez's output is less than expected . I don't trust XTQZZZ .
These talk shows are predictable in the best ways, you know what you are going to get every time, it's like you favorite comfort meals. There will be a day where I miss the mandatory Philosophical and Zywoo tangents. Just like how one day they will stop talking about Hooxi in Hot Take Point Made... right?
Yes, Yekindar was doing excellent job calling loose style for NAF. They had tons of success. Should’ve just continued with Yekindar as IGL and bring in Stewie.
Don’t worry Shiro will get the attention of Ministry of Propaganda after “Donk Slide” is referenced enough to register as “Xantares Peek” Shiro evaluation 1.75 million will “win” a few BetBoom MVPs and shoot up to 4 million
25:22 wtf are you talking about here ? The last two Major winners were INTERNATIONAL teams that actually were not Faze lead by Karrigan . The CIS region is so large, and the people there speak almost the same language, leading to the misconception that they are not international. In reality, these teams have players from different nations Out of the top 10 teams in the world, only two are not international: the Danish team Astralis and the Russian team VP. However, if we consider team cores, then teams like G2 and Falcons are not international, which is absurd. If we base it on languages, some countries have excellent education systems, where players from Denmark, Sweden, and Germany have very good English skills, unlike players from Ukraine, Russia, and the Balkans.
Finally, Thorin acknowledges XTQQZ is slackin. Zywoo, Niko, monesy, shox, apex, aleksib, etc.; and yet no major? Not even one? Uno? Nope, this guy is the definition of paycheck stealer. Apex grew so much as a leader under Zonic and seemed more composed on stage. Now, it's like the guy regressed. This team doesn't need a roster change, it needs a coaching change. Vitality need to get someone like Xzist, someone who can build a system. Blade and zonic are already taken lock and key but there are options out there.
40:00 The shiro donk dynamic is nothing like the coldzera fer dynamic , this is such a terrible comparison . It is all about impact. Donk is the best player on his team because he is the most impactful. If we replace Donk with any other player in the world, Spirit will not win. On the other hand, if we replace Shiro with any other AWPer from the top 7-8 teams, Spirit might have an even higher chance of winning, if the AWPer is Monesy, Broky, or Zywoo but also can still win with Wonderful , Jame or torzsi .
I'm still an Astralis doubter, they are starting to look more and more like when they had blameF. They also looked super strong at the beginning and then fell off over time and the pattern is very similar. They look nothing like the old Heroic in terms of how good they were and their play style. Heroic was top 1 and incredibly dominant (choking playoffs aside) and Astralis looks nothing like that + the same players are STILL chokers in playoffs.
I don't even hate that nitr0 is returning to Liquid. Bring in w0nderful or degster to AWP in place of skullz and this roster can fuck around and win a tournament here and there. This is STILL a sick roster, with previously proven chemistry, despite all the hiccups and problems.
Maniac doesnt think Spirit would be better if Monesy replaced Shiro? Thats silly. He is a silly guy with a silly mind. What a silly thing to say. So silly...
Sashi/Gaimin Gladiator cadiaN. Carries another team of Danish youngsters to the top. Beats Astralis dev1ce with Lucky in his team. Inject it into my veins.
This has to be the best Podcast about cs. The nuance of opinions, the back and forth between Maniac and Thorin and the space they leave themselfes to discuss a topic is just superb
Would love to see a video on the best decisions to leave a sinking ship and join a contender roster moves made by players. Sh1ro to spirit might be the best roster move in cs2 so far, so i’m curious when else something like this has happened thru the years of cs. Thanks again for the content!
Magisk to astralis kinda
Not the same thing at all but neo leaving VP to play with Faze, which later probably helped him get the gig as a coach with the team.
Electronic also bailing from c9 to join VP
@@kutagenhow's that going for electronic😂
You say not the same thing at all
Then you put electronic as am example for the OP
Did you even read the original premise? @@kutagen
@@noxzy69better than staying in c9, plus overpass being gone (VP’s best/most comfortable map) where Norbert also performs his best there. Hinders them a lot but i don’t think it’s a flop, can it be better? Definitely but way better than in C9
Can’t believe Cadian got the boot because Twistzz’s calibre demands better results and Cadian couldn’t sort things out with his limited time, while Hooxi just chilling for 2 years and still couldn’t get Niko and m0nesy their major trophy.
I think it's more that the personalities on the team didn't mesh on Liquid, whereas the players on G2 seem fine with Hooxi.
@@DavidDeCorso that’s even worse
lil context for zont1x at the major
he was confirmed to be abit ill during the quarters but inspite of that he made that nuke ot call to do a lobby crunch vs faze that was crucial
I think since sh1ro is their awper, he will always have some spotlight since it's an important role
High risk high reward, if he doesn’t pull his weight he’s gonna be a hinderance to the team because he plays the most impactful role, meaning the bar for him is higher than say magixx to perform
great vid again, guys - best cs show, hands down. Maniac was on top of his game today :) imo, great points from both of u. Thx.
Team spirit as a whole is very excited. They play such a dynamic style through out rounds its always has you on the edge of your seat or rolling back laughing at how they are steam rolling. I think all our mouths are watering at what could come of the donk sh1ro combo within the next few years
After some time adjusting these New Thumbnails are still BANGERS bro tvat hypes it up way more i think what was missing in the beginning was showing the Name or people for that Show cause expectation was sometimes different
Not watching unless we analysing zywoo's mindset with maniac
With his lawyer?!
What do you expect? 😂
They need to have whole separate ZywOo psychology show, and a Hooxi replacement speculation show.
Whenever there is conversation about bring a HLTV 20 player to any X team make them better. I always quote this " Astralis was never the best of all time because they had 5 Hltv top 20 players. Astralis was best of all time because they all made each other Top 20 players." Few understand the difference.
Thanks for the great content as always. Were really being spoiled.
Maniac is the only one with a sane takes
Not when it comes to vitality. Dude is the biggest homer. Calls out Spinx when Zywoo is choking on stage.
@@daedaethomas47Two things can be true
Is there a way to donate to you guys? I really can't accept this 10/10 entertainment for free
LFN accepts donations via their discord server. Should be a link in the video description
Fucking hell take a breath Thorin, I’m a native English speaker and even I needed some subtitles when you got into it 😂
Wow such great timing, I come back to watching cs2 since before the astralis era and the team im most interested in is team spirit 🎉 Also I love when players are overconfident, that’s why doublelift was my fav league player
Maniac misses to use the phrase from Mr. Burns "Not once, not twice, but THRICE!" 1:27:20
LETS GO MANIAC! Never knew he was a big tennis fan. That's a thing I would love CS to emulate - the tennis grand slam cycle. If there's gonna be two "seasons" a year too the points could be predicated on that and they could even have certain locations have certain map pools, similar to the 4 different court styles in tennis ;)
so glad you compared cs to tennis. the cs circuit does remind me a lot of the ATP system
HooXi being an analyst post career would be straight fire
Wow such great timing, I come back to watching cs2 since before the astralis era and the team im most interested in is team spirit 🎉
You've missed quite a bit i would say
Slowly it occurs to me that shiro is the ultimate duo maker. The last time i had this "on no these two again", was shiro and ax1le
0:36 wasn’t cologne at the start of the fall season
My guess is that rushing the team into the major qualifiers killed the Liquid lineup. I’m sure they were all bought in and ready to run Cadians system, but that failure compiled with not getting any officials and I’m sure some bad results in practices made those star players lose confidence. After that it was probably an impossible challenge to rebuild it.
If Spirit ever gets an Era, Zont1x will be 2nd X factor player who gets slept on because of Entry + Awp superstars. 1st being Xyp ofc.
cadiaN said in early interviews that they had discussed styles and he had agreed to adapt his style.
It seems now that he wasn't able to do that to a level he thought he would. And he should have, he had twistzz fragging out, NAF top 3-5 in his role and a very independent YEKI who has the capability. He had a mini FaZe clan circa a ropz change away.
"YEKI who has the capability"
hahahahahahha
That yeki kept putting the team at a disadvantage on both sides.
Yeki had two good tournaments at the end of the season (and that’s it), also a thankless role if the teams system can’t support or even trade off you
Cadian’s perfect for talent development and leadership
I know we need player breaks but i hate them 😢 thanks for the content to keep me busy until the next tourney
19:36 I told you to stop smoking weed
Falcons and Liquid are almost equally poor in terms of performance. The only difference is that Falcons changed a player mid-season, while Liquid retained the same lineup and did not make any progress .
RIP Maniac
Welcome to Bleed, cadiaN!
I think the problem with TL is that some players (NAF and Twistzz) think an org is a democracy. Mate, as a member of the team, you’re getting payed thousands of dollars a month to play and to do whatever your igl wants you to.
Also, as a coach/manager, is your job to make things work and to reach a proper chemistry between the players. Is Faze a democratic team? NAVI, Mouz, Astralis, Spirit? They go the way Karrigan, Aleksi, device, chopper tell them to
I'd absolutely take m0NESY for sh1ro. He's better, he plays with "old donk" essentially already. And sh1ro is weirdly unreliable in the biggest moments sometimes.
you actually think niko and donk have similar playstyles and roles? xD
Banger as usual Thorin!
if cadians stock tanked what about snappi?
Zews depart liquid
Breaking news
Seasons should be mirrored , you can't have random tournaments throughout the year and split them with a break then call it two seasons , that's dumb , also team awards individual awards , they're all about the Year (Team of the year , Player of the year , Journalist of the year) .
Liquid is going to immediately improve when cadian finally leaves.
Thorin's maulding in between Maniac's answer until he loses breath is something else. Is he always like this?
maybe simple is comming back
1:13:30 again , wtf are you talking about ?
Do you think the T side is good because Apex's calling is actually decent ? Are you blind ?
Zywoo with 23% opening attempt rate with 60% success rate is the main reason these T sides are even working , adding to that the work Flamez has to put in entries also , then you just have a 4v3 or a 4v2 and your job as Apex is to plant the bomb , throw flashes and not die , there is no insane defaults and tactical fakes , if you watch the game, the calls are just move like a pack and get an entry.
Their Problem on the CT side is Apex and Mezzi . They both are under-preforming based on their positions :
Mezzii is the worst preforming non-IGL player in the top 6 period , with the departure of nexa .
Apex is the worst player in the Top 20 in comparison to players in his position on the CT side .
We have Zywoo's underperformance in a couple if important maps , Spinx inconsistency in the Playoffs and sometimes Flamez's output is less than expected .
I don't trust XTQZZZ .
BLEED cadiaN?
And zews as well
These talk shows are predictable in the best ways, you know what you are going to get every time, it's like you favorite comfort meals. There will be a day where I miss the mandatory Philosophical and Zywoo tangents. Just like how one day they will stop talking about Hooxi in Hot Take Point Made... right?
I said it when NAF discussed cadiaN need to micromanage
"If he is (was) micromanaging NAF then I would bench him immediately"
Yes, Yekindar was doing excellent job calling loose style for NAF. They had tons of success. Should’ve just continued with Yekindar as IGL and bring in Stewie.
@MichaelMcmanhory-ms9mr No trolling, I think the team with cadian fell apart bcoz of human factor. Bad communication and lack of good coaching.
Don’t worry Shiro will get the attention of Ministry of Propaganda after “Donk Slide” is referenced enough to register as “Xantares Peek” Shiro evaluation 1.75 million will “win” a few BetBoom MVPs and shoot up to 4 million
25:22 wtf are you talking about here ?
The last two Major winners were INTERNATIONAL teams that actually were not Faze lead by Karrigan .
The CIS region is so large, and the people there speak almost the same language, leading to the misconception that they are not international. In reality, these teams have players from different nations
Out of the top 10 teams in the world, only two are not international: the Danish team Astralis and the Russian team VP. However, if we consider team cores, then teams like G2 and Falcons are not international, which is absurd. If we base it on languages, some countries have excellent education systems, where players from Denmark, Sweden, and Germany have very good English skills, unlike players from Ukraine, Russia, and the Balkans.
Finally, Thorin acknowledges XTQQZ is slackin. Zywoo, Niko, monesy, shox, apex, aleksib, etc.; and yet no major? Not even one? Uno? Nope, this guy is the definition of paycheck stealer. Apex grew so much as a leader under Zonic and seemed more composed on stage. Now, it's like the guy regressed. This team doesn't need a roster change, it needs a coaching change. Vitality need to get someone like Xzist, someone who can build a system. Blade and zonic are already taken lock and key but there are options out there.
40:00 The shiro donk dynamic is nothing like the coldzera fer dynamic , this is such a terrible comparison .
It is all about impact. Donk is the best player on his team because he is the most impactful. If we replace Donk with any other player in the world, Spirit will not win. On the other hand, if we replace Shiro with any other AWPer from the top 7-8 teams, Spirit might have an even higher chance of winning, if the AWPer is Monesy, Broky, or Zywoo but also can still win with Wonderful , Jame or torzsi .
I'm still an Astralis doubter, they are starting to look more and more like when they had blameF. They also looked super strong at the beginning and then fell off over time and the pattern is very similar. They look nothing like the old Heroic in terms of how good they were and their play style. Heroic was top 1 and incredibly dominant (choking playoffs aside) and Astralis looks nothing like that + the same players are STILL chokers in playoffs.
I don't even hate that nitr0 is returning to Liquid. Bring in w0nderful or degster to AWP in place of skullz and this roster can fuck around and win a tournament here and there. This is STILL a sick roster, with previously proven chemistry, despite all the hiccups and problems.
@MichaelMcmanhory-ms9mr These player's buyouts are affordable for a massive org like Liquid, even after the waste that skullz's was.
@MichaelMcmanhory-ms9mr Okay, who replaces skullz then? Who do Liquid look at?
:0
Thorin pls stop the softdrinks, your gonna get fat
First :>
Maniac doesnt think Spirit would be better if Monesy replaced Shiro?
Thats silly. He is a silly guy with a silly mind. What a silly thing to say. So silly...
Sashi/Gaimin Gladiator cadiaN. Carries another team of Danish youngsters to the top. Beats Astralis dev1ce with Lucky in his team. Inject it into my veins.