I am moved to share my first comment. The offer by the archbishop of Paris to resign is honourable. However, does this not pale in comparison to the report that over the last 70 years in France over 330,000 children were abused by Catholic clergy and lay members? Are we asking Who knew? and What did they do? Should we not be asking this until truthful answers emerge?
Sure, we should ask. The 1st question should be how on earth they came up with that number. With 3300 people abusing 330.000 it means we have 100 victims per criminal. That is almost certainly wrong. From other studies in the US, Germany and other countries we know that ratio is more about 2-3 victims per criminal. Even assuming the French were much worse than everybody else, 100 victims on average is out of range. Now, usually in social sciences when you find a result 30 times higher than anybody else you know that you have not made a super scientific discovery but a methodical error. In France they have not researched real cases. They have sent questionnaires to a representative sample of the population. The first problem with that is that people answering today probbaly have not even lived in the alledged time of the study, which is covering a long time. Also the statistical probabilty of a church abuse victim answering is very low since only very few people actually are such a victim, and of course no abusing priest will have answered, simply because in a representative sample you are very unlikely to hit one of them. So, I doubt that these figures will actually stand up to scientific evaluation. Of course there is another possibility. The media reports about this could be all wrong, in which case the whole topic is, well...ehm useless?
I know people who have been abused and are too shattered ashamed and embarrassed to talk about it or make a written complaint. In NZ a public enquiry is been held to listen, record and Compensate those who have had their lives damaged. The enquiry is to investigate abuse in public social welfare type organisations, educational institutions, sports groups and faith based institutions. Christian churches seem to be most forthcoming. Holy spirit please heal the world. People
Let me say that my life has been blighted by 'ambiguous relationships' - on a serious note the Church in France needs to address the colossal amount of abuse of minors (330,000) which took place over decades - this is not to be swept under the carpet. Catholics in France are outraged in a manner I have not seen before over this....
@@grahamcombs4752 Indeed it has been, but worst still in Ireland, where the fallout has been the virtual extinction of the Catholic Church in certain areas of the country. Priests are dying off and not being replaced at all. The scandal is massive, and is now augmented by the discovery of over 700 baby skeletons at a previous Convent for unmarried mothers and their babies in Tuum, Ireland. The little bodies were thrown in the sewerage septic tank where they remain. A massive scandal in Ireland that could finish the Church permanently.
The situation in the Italian Church proves the old saying that if the office of the Pope didn't exist, you'd have to invent it! I'm not Catholic myself, but one of the things that distinguish Catholicism from the other Christian denominations is the Papacy is an office of real power. Every other denomination has splintered whenever there's a disagreement. Pope Francis cracking the whip in Italy will send a loud and clear message to the rest of the Church
The cardinal Marx case has no resemblance to Aupetit whatsoever. Marx has been so critical of the massive abuse cases that he felt he had to resign. Nothing to do with him at all. But Aupetit has allegedly been involved in a relationship some years back with a woman. He does not want to be a source of division and now Pope will decide. His case and that of Barbarin and Marx not related nor of Koln arch stepping aside for a while.
Regarding refugees. We must help our sisters and brothers. However, internationally and locally should we loudly be asking the leaders of those countries people wish to flee from, what is so nasty in their countries that their residents take perilous risks to find a happier place to be? Who is exploiting those countries? Is there corrupt leadership and practices?
Allen is wrong. What makes the US American issue of abortion different from the European is that, in the latter, the abortion issue has been settled as a political matter, not as a constitutional matter. Roe v Wade was a Supreme Court decision, when an activist court arrogated to itself basically political and legislative powers by interpreting the constitution in a particular way.
Another important fact to consider is that America does not have a strong centralized federal govt (at least, not in comparison to many countries) and thus there is a lot of hope to get anti abortion laws passed (at least in certain places) if roe v Wade is struck down.
The US also trails Europe in secularization-we never had anti-Clerical elements that have had significant federal government power as have places like Portugal or France. Even in European countries that have a state religion (like the UK), religion is seen as more of a vestige or a private hobby than as an institution having significant cultural power.
I understand the prudence angle, ie no matter what the bishops say (in Europe or here stateside) next to no one is going to listen. But we still have a prophetic responsibility to speak out for the voiceless, no matter how hopeless the cause is from a political standpoint. But abortion is such a volatile issue that it’s hard to find agreement on what the balance is between prudent and prophetic. “Anyone who speaks out on abortion more than I do is a right-wing fundamentalist nut job. Anyone who speaks out on it less is a Marxist Commie hippie liberal.” That’s your problem in a nutshell.
The situations are different, and thus European bishops telling American bishops how to deal with politicians vis a vis abortion is like your brother that you only see twice a year telling you how to raise your delinquent son.
I am moved to share my first comment. The offer by the archbishop of Paris to resign is honourable. However, does this not pale in comparison to the report that over the last 70 years in France over 330,000 children were abused by Catholic clergy and lay members? Are we asking Who knew? and What did they do? Should we not be asking this until truthful answers emerge?
Sure, we should ask. The 1st question should be how on earth they came up with that number. With 3300 people abusing 330.000 it means we have 100 victims per criminal. That is almost certainly wrong. From other studies in the US, Germany and other countries we know that ratio is more about 2-3 victims per criminal. Even assuming the French were much worse than everybody else, 100 victims on average is out of range. Now, usually in social sciences when you find a result 30 times higher than anybody else you know that you have not made a super scientific discovery but a methodical error. In France they have not researched real cases. They have sent questionnaires to a representative sample of the population. The first problem with that is that people answering today probbaly have not even lived in the alledged time of the study, which is covering a long time. Also the statistical probabilty of a church abuse victim answering is very low since only very few people actually are such a victim, and of course no abusing priest will have answered, simply because in a representative sample you are very unlikely to hit one of them. So, I doubt that these figures will actually stand up to scientific evaluation. Of course there is another possibility. The media reports about this could be all wrong, in which case the whole topic is, well...ehm useless?
I know people who have been abused and are too shattered ashamed and embarrassed to talk about it or make a written complaint. In NZ a public enquiry is been held to listen, record and
Compensate those who have had their lives damaged. The enquiry is to investigate abuse in public social welfare type organisations, educational institutions, sports groups and faith based institutions. Christian churches seem to be most forthcoming.
Holy spirit please heal the world.
People
God created man and woman and it was good.
Let me say that my life has been blighted by 'ambiguous relationships' - on a serious note the Church in France needs to address the colossal amount of abuse of minors (330,000) which took place over decades - this is not to be swept under the carpet. Catholics in France are outraged in a manner I have not seen before over this....
It was swept under the rug in America ...
@@grahamcombs4752 Indeed it has been, but worst still in Ireland, where the fallout has been the virtual extinction of the Catholic Church in certain areas of the country. Priests are dying off and not being replaced at all. The scandal is massive, and is now augmented by the discovery of over 700 baby skeletons at a previous Convent for unmarried mothers and their babies in Tuum, Ireland. The little bodies were thrown in the sewerage septic tank where they remain. A massive scandal in Ireland that could finish the Church permanently.
Thankful for Crux weekly news!
The situation in the Italian Church proves the old saying that if the office of the Pope didn't exist, you'd have to invent it! I'm not Catholic myself, but one of the things that distinguish Catholicism from the other Christian denominations is the Papacy is an office of real power. Every other denomination has splintered whenever there's a disagreement. Pope Francis cracking the whip in Italy will send a loud and clear message to the rest of the Church
The cardinal Marx case has no resemblance to Aupetit whatsoever. Marx has been so critical of the massive abuse cases that he felt he had to resign. Nothing to do with him at all. But Aupetit has allegedly been involved in a relationship some years back with a woman. He does not want to be a source of division and now Pope will decide. His case and that of Barbarin and Marx not related nor of Koln arch stepping aside for a while.
Regarding refugees. We must help our sisters and brothers.
However, internationally and locally should we loudly be asking the leaders of those countries
people wish to flee from, what is so nasty in their countries that their residents take perilous risks to find a happier place to be? Who is exploiting those countries? Is there corrupt leadership and practices?
Allen is wrong. What makes the US American issue of abortion different from the European is that, in the latter, the abortion issue has been settled as a political matter, not as a constitutional matter. Roe v Wade was a Supreme Court decision, when an activist court arrogated to itself basically political and legislative powers by interpreting the constitution in a particular way.
It’s about state’s rights.
Another important fact to consider is that America does not have a strong centralized federal govt (at least, not in comparison to many countries) and thus there is a lot of hope to get anti abortion laws passed (at least in certain places) if roe v Wade is struck down.
The US also trails Europe in secularization-we never had anti-Clerical elements that have had significant federal government power as have places like Portugal or France. Even in European countries that have a state religion (like the UK), religion is seen as more of a vestige or a private hobby than as an institution having significant cultural power.
@@jackdispennett744 Thank God.
RCC is in deep confusion.
In Western Europe it is a dead issue. Pun intended.
The pope reminds me of Henry Kissinger who used to flit around the world trying to negotiate political .deals between countries.
A bishop with a girlfriend - how refreshing.
I understand the prudence angle, ie no matter what the bishops say (in Europe or here stateside) next to no one is going to listen. But we still have a prophetic responsibility to speak out for the voiceless, no matter how hopeless the cause is from a political standpoint. But abortion is such a volatile issue that it’s hard to find agreement on what the balance is between prudent and prophetic. “Anyone who speaks out on abortion more than I do is a right-wing fundamentalist nut job. Anyone who speaks out on it less is a Marxist Commie hippie liberal.” That’s your problem in a nutshell.
The situations are different, and thus European bishops telling American bishops how to deal with politicians vis a vis abortion is like your brother that you only see twice a year telling you how to raise your delinquent son.