Haha! As a former wife, I learned to break torque on said pickle jars. Turn them upside down at an angle holding in one hand and whack them soundly with the palm of the other hand. If that isn't enough, maintain position and hit the edge of the lid on a linoleum floor. If you have a hard floor, use a pot holder to cushion the blow. Works every time.
a conversation i had with my manager once: Manager-"did you torque those caliper bracket bolts?" me- "yeah" Manager-'what did you torque them to?" me-"tight"
@@ryans413 Yes but caliper bracket bolts can range from 60 ft lbs to 250 ft lbs on big trucks. You could easily snap a bolt on a small car or under tighten a bolt on a big truck. Worth it to look up a torque spec for any brake or suspension component.
nthnhansen Yes but for the most part conman sense plays a big part of its getting too tight then it’s probably way too tight right and if it’s still kinda lose then it needs more tightening. You make some good point those things you wanna torque probably but things like an engine bracket or a bolt that hold the radiator in stuff like that most of the time snug is just fine
I really love the idea of getting each and every bolt torqued exactly by the book. But there are only a few jobs where I will break out my torque wrench (Snappy Tech wrench for those that care). Working on VWs, I use 1/4 drive a lot. As most fasteners are torqued from 10-20NM. It doesn't take too long to get the feel for 15NM on a valve cover nut. But as I said on FB, I like to see rookie techs use a torque wrench for a while. It helps to make sure they tighten ALL the bolts, and properly. I have had to bail out plenty of techs for breaking or stripping bolts. Some times a torque wrench would have prevented that. Some times not. Another point is, be sure your tools are in proper repair. I have seen several drain plugs loose due to a bad torque wrench. Just like with a scan tool, you can not blindly trust a torque wrench. Working on cars requires a little "grey matter" at times. ;)
+HumbleMechanic in my head as I read you comment... It was in your voice haha! I agree that it's not critical to use a torque wrench in every case or every fastener, but doing cylinder heads, oil pans, lug nuts, major suspension work (besides those with castle nuts) I will break out my torque wrenches, as Eric said in the video, 12mm and smaller I just use a 1/4" ratchet, or a shorter (stubby) wrench, bigger fasteners I do have shorter ratchets to use, and I will NEVER use those extending ratchets (the ones where the handle can slide to make it longer for more torque) to run down any fasteners, mainly use that 3/8" one when a 1/2" breaker bar isn't needed. Just today, replaced an alternator on a friends 86 suburban, 350 small block, the entire time he kept asking "you gonna torque that" when there was no need, told him after 8 years you get the feel of proper/close enough torque, sure enough I looked up the specs, between 25-35ft/lb, pulled out my digital torque gauge and read 29,
+Aarons Automotive also did a thermostat on a friends 2004 jeep TJ as he refuses to work on for gear of breaking something but has also never turned a wrench in his life and don't blame him for that fear. Well torque spec is 13-17ft/lb, used a 1/4" ratchet to tighten them and digital gauge to make him feel better read 16, so again, you tend to get the feel of them, yes I'm sure I have over torqued fasteners in the past but never by a lot nor do I reef on them with a 1/2" ratchet. Use what's appropriate for the size, and I've found that 90% of things if you make them snug to where you think they're "tight enough" than give them an 1/8-1/4 turn extra and usually seems to be just great, even on my own vehicles I've never had anything fall apart from to little torque, and have yet to strip a bolt or cause a leak from over tighten, but will use the torque wrench when needed.
+HumbleMechanic +EricTheCarGuy Experience builds muscle memory and one develops a "calibrated wrist" that is adequate for many fasteners and that same experience tells one when to breakout the torque wrench for when it is critical to be dead on.
I was an auto mechanic for 22 years. I used a torque wrench on water pump, head, intake, transmission, all pan bolts, and lug nuts. Everything else was by "feel". I am now a high school auto shop instructor. I have my students torque almost all fasteners with a torque wrench. I believe that using a torque wrench over a couple of years builds the "feel" that allows a professional for the most part to do his/her job properly without it.
+EricTheCarGuy say one word and get 10,000 drop on your back. for the others just using a torque wrench doesn't means you know how to use one... do you know when to stop?
+Andrew Kavanagh well put,I've actually worked with guys that could torque a bolt by feel to with in a lb or 2 after years of experience.The torque nazi bean counters from corporate would always get on their case about it until they'd bet them a few bucks that they can do it by feel.The one tech took quite a few Ben Franklins with this one ;) and while they got a pass they'd also encourage the new guys to use a T wrench as much as possible.
***** while I agree the problem is that there are a lot of things that will get warped,crushed or otherwise possibly damaged by too much torque before this point ;)
Eric, my dad used to say, "You never have enough time to do it right the first time, but you always have time to do it again". I do believe that in your case, as a professional mechanic, you apply proper torque by hand. However, I'm afraid that you're giving the novice the impression that using a torque wrench is not important all the time. What if your water pump leaks, no big deal right? How about your suspension bolts, no big deal right? How about brake assembly bolts, what could possibly happen? My point is, torque IS important, and everyone SHOULD use a torque wrench to tighten bolts where there is a spec. Of course, I'm a little biased, as I work for Snap-on as a torque technician and trainer. (and thanks for being a Snap-on customer) Torque on dude !!
Hey Eric , you're completely right . When I started in the trade about 10 years ago by the owner of my company . I was told what made a good mechanic is to know what not to torque !
Not to mention listed torque specs aren't always right. Age and condition also effects torque specs. If you go around torquing everything based on a number off the internet you're going to do a lot of snapping and stripping.
I think it makes sense for amateurs to pay more attention to torque in situations where a pro might not. There are situations where everybody is going to torque to spec (and in the proper order), like with head bolts. Then there are a bunch more situations where it's up to you. I know I've paid a ton more attention to torque ever since I broke a stud off of the isolator at the top of one of my front springs by over-torquing the bolt. If I had more experience, I might not have needed to torque it, but as an amateur, I made a mistake by not doing so. I suspect many "torque Nazis" are DIYers who don't work under time constraints or have a bunch of experience under their belts to serve as a guide. To them, seeing someone guesstimate torque seems 1) improper and 2) potentially dangerous. It's not dangerous at all for an experienced pro, but they're actually right that it might be for a beginner. Bearing in mind that a major part of your audience is inexperienced, an occasional reminder for beginners to consider using a torque wrench might not be totally out of place.
Ask a firearm fanatic how important muscle memory is. Same rules apply when tightening bolts. In automotive school one of my teachers was totally confident not using a torque wrench but wouldn't allow any of us to tighten almost anything without one. He wanted us to practice to get to his level of confidence... Great video Eric!
I'm a Kia technician. For the most part, I only break out my torque wrenches for internal components (i.e. Cam bolts, head bolts, valve body, etc). But honestly, the only thing I 100% bring out a torque wrench for, is head bolts. That's really the only thing that I feel requires it, no exceptions.
+ETCG1 lol no you know they going to say. Why wouldn't you care to torque a customers car when they are your customers and paying you but yet would definitely do your own! Me personally I don't torque anything but then again I'm just a 'CARPORT' mechanic. Lol but will be doing my wheels now! Keep up the good videos your my go to guy with questions. All though I really wish you would work on a H3 hummer sometime. Cause I've been trying for months and months to figure out this cooling issue but nothing yet figured out. :-(
Eric, I am worse than a Torque Nazi, I'm one of Snap-on's torque trainers. Thank you for the nice comments about our click wrenches. I'm proud of the fact that quality products are still being built here in the USA. I work at the California factory where your torque wrenches were made. As a torque trainer, I'd just like to add a few comments. While I agree that an experienced mechanic like yourself can develop a "feel" for torque, most young mechanics today do not have your experience, so to imply that torque is not important is a mistake. Yesterday's 327 Chevy cast iron block was way more forgiving when it comes to torque compared to today's aluminum blocks and heads. Don't guess, do it right the first time, or you'll be doing it again...
Excellent points. I'm honored by your input, and yes, I love my Snap-on torque wrenches. Although it's been some time since I had them calibrated. I should probably get that taken care of. Thanks again.
+2chadreed2 they are not sold in the USA, besides they are just re branded chevys, daewoos, opels and isuzus (except for the commodore which is a true holden)
As you mentioned the "feel" comes from years of experience. I torque all the bolts on every transmission I build because uneven torque can lead to covers or extension housings loading sideways when gaskets are used. Also gaskets compress as different rates so sometimes you have to retorque once a gasket settles into place. Even with a torque wrench you still have to develop a feel. Example I had a transmission case that had 2 cover bolt holes not threaded deeply enough. I could feel the bolt twisting but not tightening. So how do I get Snap on to let me demo one of those digital ones?
+GearBoxVideo Thanks for your input. I'll say this, no one that I know of is able to talk to Snap-on. They're kinda like the Vatican from what I've seen.
Kinda is. I've tried emailing, calling and got in touch with several people. The chain of people I had to go through to get to the right person was silly and typical of all old school companies not understanding new marketing. I followed up with emails and Snap On never had the decency to at least respond and say no. In fact I left messages with local dealers listed on their bullshit dealer finder and never got a call back. I was looking to buy a very expensive Torque wrench. Same actually for Mac-Tools. Fuck them all! Snap On and Mac Tools barely respond on social media. I tweeted to them all as well. Including Craftsman. On the other hand got an instant response from Matco with a dealer contacting me the next day and had a Matco ETWB100A Digital wrench in my hand within 3 working days. Bottom line.... when you are going to drop $400 to $600 on a tool you should expect instant pre sales support. If they are too stupid not to make that effort then they don't deserve your business. After all, how would I trust they are going to give any support after the sale?
+GearBoxVideo what i think guys is that those companies are so famous for their good quality tools and mechanics well know that they consider they have nothing to support you guys are spendin large amounts of your hard earned money and probably getting a tool that was made in china with u.s.a stamped on it and not even know it how many times has that happend if those companies don't care for their costomers well fuck em someone else is ready to take their place
I would say 90 percent of the tool companies won't even call you back. I tried unsuccessfully with SnapOn, Mac Tools and Gearwrench. Matco was pretty good at getting me a dealer but basically are reselling Gearwrench products at double the costs. The only thing you get for paying double is a somewhat a lifetime warranty
+Mustie1 I'm liking my T-handles these days. The more I do this, the more I seem to move back toward hand tools. I find that interesting. Mostly because I've seen a lot of older techs using hand tools. I always thought it made them slower. The older I get, the more I realize the wisdom behind their methods. Thanks for your input.
+EricTheCarGuy I like air for tear downs and for suspension/body work. For eng/trans I use air for removal and hand tools for assembly. UNLESS the bolts are going into plastic, then it's hand tools both ways.
+EricTheCarGuy do you think you would feel the same if you were working in a flat rate environment? I think for me, I'd be too caught up in my own habits to even try it. But I am difficult like that.
I use my own unit of torque, different wrenches/tools give me different torques. I use a scale of NT, PT, FT (Not tight, pretty tight, fucking tight). I'll usually use a combination wrench for PT, and a long box wrench for FT. Never given me issues
+Mingo Reliance Your point is taken, however you can't rule out the value of experience and muscle memory. I'm not saying my methods are perfect, but they work a majority of the time. For me that's proof at least that on some level I'm not wrong.
+EricTheCarGuy yeah. for the most part it isn't harmful. all I'm saying is that the human body is very interesting in the way it functions, and that we may not be as precise as we think. Muscle memory isn't something real, but that's a topic for a different discussion.
+Mingo Reliance It could also be argued that perception is something that's not so accurate, and subjective. By that logic the comments to my videos about torque would have even less value than me torquing things by hand. :)
I also torque-by-experience 🤣 It’s good to know the torque spec. But I’d say that more important is to know metal type, especially of the threads. Aluminum threads on an intake or heads are a lot more delicate than head bolt threads in an iron block! On smaller bolts and aluminum to aluminum, or plastic to aluminum, I usually use the 1/4” ratchet. But to use a baseball term, I “choke up” on the ratchet and……AND only hold the ratchet by the fingertips of one hand.
When someone dislikes something, they are more likely to comment than someone who favors something. Making more negative comments than positive. I have enjoyed 98% of your content that I have watched Eric. I say 98% because I cant commit myself 100% to something haha. But I enjoy every video I watch from you. I wish you had the same vehicle that I do, just so I can learn more about my vehicle through you! Not to mention, your camera angles are always perfect (far better than the majority of other youtubers), you know what you're talking about, you're honest, you have great content, and quite often you're funny! Just letting you know I enjoy your videos, even though I, and I'm sure many others, don't comment often. Thanks for what you do!
I agree with you. The only time I use a Torque wrench is for head bolts, auto gearbox sump pan bolts espeially if the gasket is a rubber gasket. Years of experience turns your elbow into a torque wrench. You develop a feel for the nut or bolt especially when removing a rusted seized bolt. Gr8 vid Eric 👍🇬🇧
Lol, I get those torque nazis too. I usually tell them that I use goodentight torque. Then there's those guys that get mad for me not mentioning torque specs in the video... They expect us to google it for their specific vehicle I guess;)
+BleepinJeep Yea, it's interesting to see what different people take away from our videos. It's also interesting to see what they expect from us. Funny what people will expect to get for free. Not saying I expect to get paid for every comment, I'm speaking more to what people seem to expect based on a video they watched on the internet.
+BleepinJeep Love your vids too bruh! I learned how to replace my double cardan joint in my Explorer thanks to you. 4 years as a tech and never dealt with one. It wasn't very easy to find with certainty either...you tell people lifted 94 Explorer and they're like a deer in headlights :-\. Good thing I know how to measure shit lol. Thumbs up and thank you to you both.
+BleepinJeep I make mostly MINI Cooper repair videos. I know MINIs very well so I make an effort to put torque values where possible. If I work on another kind of car, I'm not going to put torque values because they can change even within the same model run and I don't want to be the target of someone's frustration for faithfully following what could be wrong values. All repairs are ultimately the responsibility of the guy or girl behind the wrench.
I’m not nazi but I do torque every fastener, including trim bolts and battery terminal bolts. If there is a spec, heck I will do it. If there isn’t, I will find it and if not, I finish the job and treat is as limp home mode until I find it again. It never is a bad thing to get everything to spec, you can never be too accurate.
I agree with you. I use a torque wrench a lot right now because I'm learning what each torque setting feels like. I don't worry about small bolts much b/c I'm not very strong and I can get to maybe 30 ft-lb using a half-inch drive and all my strength. If I snug something up using a 3/8 inch drive, it's probably between 15 and 20 ft-lb. I would have to use a breaker bar to over-torque just about anything. I have to use a breaker bar to get my lug nuts to proper torque. Once you develop the muscle memory, you don't need the tool unless you're going for a lot of precision and accuracy.
Any bolt involed with a gasket, critical bearing surface or tight tolerance ill torque. The rest I use a german method of tightening called the "goodentite" method...
Also there are some very car make specific instances where torque is critical. A good example is on a mercedes benz M273 engine found in S550's, the valve covers actually have the cam bearing caps built into them, so if you improperly torque them you need all new heads on that engine... so just know your car brands and always read the proper instruction on fixing the vehicle.
When I did Honda J-series V6 timing belt, I wanted to do everything properly. So I torqued every idler pulley bolt, waterpump bolts, tensioner bolts, gear cover bolts and crank pulley (to 189 lb-ft!). Two years later and everything is spot on. I'm also happy, because my instructor told me that he had students do the same timing belt and they messed up the timing by one tooth. The engine was running so rough, they thought it was going to explode or at least that's what I've been told. So when I started my engine for the first time and it ran like a clock, my instructor was impressed and I hope more knowledgeable now that not every student is just a noob with a wrench hahaha
Whenever there is a gasket or joint, torque to spec., exhaust shields... not really vital. I try to torque as much as I can, but sometimes it's jut not physically possible (like my fuel rail fasteners).
try charging your customers for torquing every fastener and cleaning every thread because if you are torquing you better be cleaning..watch your customers complain. few and far fasteners need to be torqued.
@ 4:14 Eric, can you post the video on "Twerking Headbolts". Just kidding man, it gave a great image in my head. Love your attitude, and love your videos. Keep em coming brother!
+EricTheCarGuy even that Bieber guy for back ground live music would be better than that Cyrus chick for 2 seconds... Unless it papa Cyrus, that I could handle ;)
Thank you Eric. As per your with or without torque wrench. Try to torque steel bolt to aluminum at 20lbs. The bolt / threaded hole will stretch at 15lbs and if you use torque wrench, you will not feel the stretch and helicoil for sure. You need to feel the metal on metal without torque wrench and experience teaches you. Note, correct way is to retap and clean out but still will feel the stretch and less torque maybe the only way.
I always torque things that are important like Head bolts and crank rods n mains. Do I torque water pump and starter bolts.......hell no! You have to use common sense which really is not common at all. In many cases, a torque spec is supplied to make sure some heavy handed numbskull doesn't strip or break a fastener. Is it critical that a bumper bracket be torqued to a spec of 47in lbs? Fuck no! Is it critical that a new head bolt be torqued to a spec of 27ft lbs the first sequence pass, 54ft lbs the second sequence pass and then use a torque dial indicator to turn each head bolt an additional 230degrees for the third and final sequence? Fuck yes!
You should try working in aviation, the torques must be witnessed by an inspector. Yes it is important Eric. Thanks, love your videos. Sam. When torqueing a castell nut you have a range of torque, you start low and work higher to position the cotter pin hole or whatever safety device. I do understand where you are coming from I do not do all of this on my vehicles, but your so called feel is BS.
Depends on the circumstance a water pump fail on a car so what a propeller on a plane come off then you have a problem if a flange on an acid pipeline fails people die so again it depends on the circumstance and the risk involved in failure!
Well feel doesnt have to be that acurate but if its in 30% range some bolts dont really care that much. I know that although i like to torque with tw almost every bolt haha.
In small engine repair in highschool I failed to torque the flywheel nut properly(Didn't use a torque wrench) twice and ended up with 2 destroyed shear keys. I had to re read that chapter and found out I forgot to torque the nut. Didn't help that the carb wasn't working properly and the engine was going full throttle when I was starting it. Engine would start screaming and then there would be a loud squelching sound.
I have a pretty simple rule: Torque to spec whenever: 1) Bearrings or Friction surfaces are involved 2) Large surfaces are involved (e.g. Head-Bolts) 3) When critical warpage can occur (e.g. Brake Rotors) In all other instances: Do it by feel. No car ever broke because the AC Compressor was not fastened with 45Nm....
How do you know. Range Rover owners had cracks in water pump housing due to some mechanic thinking that was the right torque. So customers paid for two timing belt jobs. ALL BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE AT THE CORRECT PRESSURE
The only improper tightened/torqued bolt or fastener are the ones that come loose or snap off after you have tightened it down. Whether done with or without a torque wrench.
You know in the UK it had become legislated that mechanics had to torque down head bolts and still have to have all wrenches calibrated every 6 months. We had many garages that never did use a torque wrench on head bolts for years and some mechanic shops had returns and law suits against them for bad workmanship being the fundamental cause of the engine failure. Also note the failure caused accidents which resulted in serious injury and or death. So they put in place a British Standard practice for garages to use torque wrenches and also a way that a court of law could fine and or prison mechanics and home DIY enthusiasts who were to blame for an accident due to their workmanship. Calibrated torque wrenches kind of became cover your ass mentality. All that went out the window as well when Rover came around with the K series engine which does not have its bolts torqued down but angularly set being a stretch bolt instead of a clamp it tight fastener. Now many manufacturers are copying Rover in the stretch bolt design so a torque wrench is not that important any more but angular tightening is. A torque wrench still has its place for suspension components and chassis to body mounts, bushings etc.
+Fireicer Cooper (f1r31c3r) What have you been smoking? It never has been law that a mechanic has to torque anything down in the UK. In fact anyone can call themselves a mechanic and set up a workshop today and charge for their services. I presume you are talking about the K series Rover engine where they boasted about their high tech design and build (they, like a lot of manufacturing plants use robotic tools that individually sense the optimum point where tightening should stop) but that didn't stop that advanced design being badly bolted together and cheap parts used internally. They are known as singing kettles because of their frequency of blowing head gaskets.
cfook I remember reading the court cases that were published after the case was over regarding a person taking mechanic to court over causing a motorway accident after the cylinder head blew off and was convicted to the mechanics workmanship for being the cause of this. It was an old case many many years ago. I am surprised you don't know that tools across the trade in UK industry requires to be calibrated to spec and is legislated. It is not illegal not to use these tools but if something happens and you are in court facing the blame then you will learn fast what it's all about. Yes the K series engine is a prone HGF no doubt about it but it was down to not paying attention to the cooling system. Making alloy castings too thin, if they were machined from billet alloy the problem would not have been so prominent but it was cheaper to cast them and with casting it is weaker and requires you to cast it much thicker than if it was machined from billet. Stupid mistakes across the board for sure but that said to say that only Rover K series engines suffered from this problem is unfair. Even Honda, Alfa Romeo and ford amongst others have had the same problem and it was generally almost always due to cooling issues. So yes cheap parts used, yes mistakes made but all in all the K series engine really was well advanced and well before it's time. This design has shaped today's engines you can not deny that.
+Fireicer Cooper (f1r31c3r) +Fireicer Cooper (f1r31c3r) You really should stop digging. "You know in the UK it had become legislated that mechanics had to torque down head bolts and still have to have all wrenches calibrated every 6 months." No part of that is true. Regular calibration is good working practice, shows professionalism, and is included in my ISO records, is it a legal requirement? Absolutely not. "Legislated" does not translate into something you just made up.
cfook I think you will find it is buried in the legislation and touches within hearsay criminal law amongst others. It is what type of evidence is admissible etc etc. It does not have a specific legislation defining this particular subject, it is how evidence can be placed before a court as to what is admissible as evidence regarding said allegations. If you prove you have followed all the good practice as to what is deemed acceptable such as calibrated tooling then this can be used as evidence in your claim or defence. It is one of them things if you neglect to do under certain circumstances you are going to struggle to prove your case. If you are looking for a simple plain cut layman terms legislation about it then good luck with that, it is a minefield at the best of times. I am not going into it any deeper on a Monday, you go do your research. Remember it is said in a court of law, ignorance is no excuse.
personally I like to torque as many bolts as possible. because the way I see it manufactures spend hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars each year on engineers that find out what torque those bolts should be done up too. they wouldn't spend the money if it wasn't necessary.
+DEMMERY11 but here's the thing, the bolt manufacturer has designed the bolt for specific applications, engineers make it look good on paper, most of the time it comes down to the manufacturer of the item to make it work, your torque values on paper might not even be the same as what it came from the factory as! I see it all the time, I'm on the manufacturing end!
+DayRider76 they are designed by engineers and made by manufacturing engineers, with the help of machinists and other various people. But, the torque values should come from SAE standard testing and/or real testing...........
I will say that feel goes a long way. I work in the AF building bombs for a living. we have a very specific bomb that requires 100lb/ft of torque on the lugs that attach the bomb to the aircraft. I can regularly hand tighten those lugs to within an eighth of a turn of the required torque without ever having gone over having built hundreds of these bombs. of course we go back and use a calibrated torque wrench because that's not an area you want or are allowed to violate what the book tells you. point is, the calibrated hand is real.
I do everything on my car, because I'm not afraid to get the necessary information and (if needed) tools for the job. The torque wrench gives me confidence as a hobby mechanic, so I can worry on other things...it's just one less thing I can potentially screw up. For people who don't work that often on cars torquing down is highly recommended in my opinion. How should I "lighten up", if I never felt the right torque in the first place. So as you said, it's a matter of experience, which a casual mechanic (probably most of your viewers) simply doesn't have.
I don't have a year of working on my car or owning a car and I got a feel for torquing spark plugs and lug nuts, i haven't stripped them or made it impossible to remove, haven't warped rotors, my tires havent gotten loose and ride off on their own and lug nuts haven't gotten loose without vibrations, so yeah, got a nice feel for them, I don't even own a torque wrench, just a 3/8 drive 1½ft long rachet and a 3 feet long breaker bar. For lug nuts I have a cross wrench or iron, not as much leverage as a breaker bar and a deep socket but it works.
Oh my god, I wish I could like this videos more than once. You're the man Eric. People make the torque comments on my channel all the time. I really laughed at your "lighten up!" comment, haha.
Ha, I wish I had trusted myself more than the wrench! ... I bought a cheap torque wrench because the German car I worked on had aluminum valve cover bolts and specific Nm settings, as I tightened them it felt wrong but I believed the wrench and over did it on all of them until I broke one! I now have an expensive one that, like you, I use when I feel its necessary and works a treat, but otherwise experience is best most of the time.
I'm running into a similar issue myself. I'm second guessing myself and my torque wrench. I'm not sure if it's me, my torque wrench, or somehow the aluminum in my car somehow magically weakened over time. I have a cheap harbor freight 3/8" click style torque wrench, and so far I've had questionable experiences: tightening a bolt into an aluminum transmission housing, and now yesterday, tightening a timing belt tensioner bolt into an aluminum engine block. By "questionable", I mean the torque wrench didn't click, and the bolt never seemed to tighten. NOT COOL!! So I ordered a couple digital torque wrenches today so that I can actually WATCH the torque increase as I'm twisting, and hopefully stay out of trouble. I also ordered one of those ACDelco torque adapters so I can check my cheapo torque wrenches accuracy. I hope to find it's the torque wrench getting me into trouble so that I can stop worrying about torqueing anything into aluminum. If I do find the torque wrench to be inaccurate, then I will be tossing my cheapo harbor freight torque wrench in the trash!! Hmmmm... maybe I should just trash it anyways!
kray brother I’ve never had that happen so far with my TechAngles from Snappy (2 different generations 1/4” 1/2” 3/8”) .. calibration costs a TAD more at times, but not by much. I love them. Never going back!
You nailed it! I only torque: cylinder heads valve train parts major engine parts wheel nuts That's it. How would one make money on flat rate then! It just takes some experience really.
ive watched your videos for years now, and am getting disappointed by your later ones. so what your saying is, you'll torque your own projects cause you care but not your customers cause your working flat rate. That's just poor integrity. Making a video or not, you should care about the job you're doing no matter what the pay. I feel another RE: video coming on
+christopher fuller No Re: video, this is my response. I stand by my statements. I'm sorry you see them that way. I'm not saying I'm only going to torque my own projects, just where I feel it's warranted and in most cases, I don't see that it is. I'm not alone in this as most professional technicians aren't torquing every single fastener. It's just not practical or necessary.
+christopher fuller I got say I didn't hear that, to me it sounded like he torques things that are really necessary to torque and the most recent example he had of that was his own transmission. I dont know about you but I dont bother torquing every single bolt in my car either. Even if I wanted to it would be very difficult to find torque specs for every single bolt, usually only the bolts people bother torquing are easy to find.
+EricTheCarGuy I'm only going off what you said. That's all we can do. I'm a tech as well, and I don't torque every fastener. it is like you said, as a mechanic you get the "feel" for how it should be.
Eric, I am a big fun of Your program, but I am sorry to say sometimes you passing to people wrong message. I am mechanical engineer, and some of your comments are just misleading people who are learning. Most of my life I spent working on aero-engines, to be precise I am stress engineer. So I would apply Finite Elements method to calculate strength of all sort of components and assemblies. Bolts are one of the most important components (if not the most) in machinery, and when you saying that torquing bolts is to evenly distribute pressure around mating parts my blood is boiling. I don't want to go over here in detail, but every single fastener is calculated to operate and have proper pre-calmp force in hot environment, in cold environment, it is checked against slippage, against crush stress, or event to check whether they withstand impact/crash, etc, etc, etc. Really if that would be only about ditributing pressure, do you think guys in manuals give you specific torque for every fastener. I am messing around cars, quite a lot, and I have met hug problems with setting full wheel alignment when some of the bolts wren't properly torqued. I have seen exhaust leaking due to wrong torquing (to big, not to small) etc... What I am trying to pass to you is that you are trying educate people, so please do it right, without such comments as in this video.
+Lukasz Gryczewski Thanks very much for your input, but I think you misread my comments. I believe I stated that torque IS important, but it's not something I do often these days. It was not my intention to belittle the importance of torque, but rather to illustrate the point that after performing repairs as a professional technician for several years, I don't often break out the torque wrench. I understand where you're coming from, and the engineering behind what you're saying, but you leave out the ever important factor of time. As a professional technician you're often working against the clock to make a paycheck. To torque every single fastener to spec in most cases would undermine your paycheck. What I am saying is that after a time, you can develop a 'feel' for how tight to make things, and also know when breaking out the torque wrench is important. In no way was I insinuating that torquing fasteners was irrelevant. Thanks again for your input.
+ETCG1 Cool Eric. I am happy we are on the same page, well almost ;) I would like You, as well as other technicians out there probably put a bit more interests in torquing properly bolts. Personally along 10 years spent in industry I have seen only one a guy who has been checked against torque wrench and always was +/-5%. So I am not saying it is impossible to have the 'feeling' but still is molto important at least to be aware why you should torquing all bolts per spec. On the other hand I hear your fair arguments of people working against time - however I am sure you agree this is when usually stuff goes wrong. Generally I am against it, I think we should more concentrate on quality rather than quantity, shame that people up at the top level don't get this. Backing to the subject, from an engineering point of view (as I deal with a lots of technicians on a shop-floor every day) can you please sneak a bit more 'professional' knowledge? You probably get by this time I am foreigner but I hope this will illustrate what I am asking. Technician will say hole, engineer (or good technician) will say bolt hole. I hope this make sense. Again You are doing excellent work! All the best!
Damn I just made the same comment, you beat me to it by about a day. We have done some government contracts that required documentation showing when's the torque wrenches were calibrated. When testing them, I find that quite a few are inaccurate buy a significant amount. that's kind of the reason why I always laugh at torque Nazis,
I didn't even know torque wrenches were a thing you used outside of precision work (transmissions, engine internals, etc) for the longest time and I have yet to see a reason to. Most fasteners just need to be tight enough to not fall out and the acceptable torque range is between "snug" and "extra snug". The one time I've used a torque wrench was for the lug nuts on my car, but after the suckers started loosen up on me a couple hundred miles down the road I've stopped doing that. Now I just lay on them with the breaker bar and haven't had a problem since.
I used to torque everything even water pumps, UNTIL a water pump bolt broke because the torque wrench was not accurate. Engine parts, Heads, Intakes, Body mounts, Suspension parts. I use them. Everything else, Nahh. Oh, Ill never torque down a water pump again. lol A Torque wrench is nice to get the FEEL of what tight something should be Run it up to what you think how tight it should be, Check it with the torque wrench. Then you do not need the torque wrench all the time
This segment exemplifies what bothers me about taking your car to a shop. As Eric the car guy stated, he doesn't torque all fasteners to spec, rather he developed a feel for torquing close to that spec, thus saving time. However; you the customer is charged on a flat rate basis, which means you're being charged for the technician to identify and torque the fasteners to spec. You're not getting that service you're being charged for. The technician benefits by reducing the time working on you car and the shop benefits by charging you for more than what is actually done to your car. Both technician and shop benefits at your expense. Don't get me wrong, I have unlimited respect for Eric, but it's not cool to charge for one service while providing a "lesser" one.
Having worked on several GE engineers vehicles at a shop I used to work at, just because you make more money, that doesn't make you any smarter. I see your point though. Thanks for the comment.
To Torque or not to torque ? Do torque the wheels, if you don't they are extremely hard to remove if you have a flat tire especially in winter. Believe me, even the brakes (rotors) will become warped and brake pulsation will be born LOL. You MUST torque critical engine components if you don't I will walk into your garage and kick the Tech responsible for such a blunder square in the Balls. LOL
I refuse to use “Torque Bars” because air pressure, air tools old & new are all different and the time I waisted at the dealership with a breaker bar and length of pipe made me want to harm the shade tree at “Brakes R Us” or where ever! Oh, we use a chart & torque sticks. Yeh, but your wife can’t change a flat because the LuG NuTs Won’t ComE OfF!!! ASE Master 78.
Well, torque... Problem is over torquing, you strip the bolt or nut or the thread in the hole. Now if you are experienced with wrenching on stuff you usually don't over torque something by hand because you know when something is going to give.. But there are things where torque is just really important because if something goes wrong it goes really wrong. One of those things in my opinion are wheels. But almost no one these days uses a torque wrench on wheels and with almost no one i mean the professionals.. The shops. Not the people at home.. There's no time, everything quick quick and so the wheels get hammered on with a big impact. I'm glad i'm doing the work on my vehicles myself... I only had to change almost half the wheel studs on my car once.. right after i got it and did the first tire change.
I maintained Army helicopters for over a quarter century. We were trained and reminded to use torque wrenches on almost everything. Some things lacked a torque setting (for good reason), but they were rare. It's true that you develop a feel for fastener settings after wrenching for many years. I well remember the Technical Inspectors getting hot on us new mechanics over simple things like panel screws. A common torque for the everyday panels on Bell Jet Rangers (we called them Kiowas) was 18 to 22 inch pounds. We quickly learned that well worn panels that had been removed and reinstalled numerous times, the torque value held true. But on newer fasteners, 22 inch pounds was not nearly enough to seat the screw head flush with the panel. After it became apparent that the torque setting was not enough, we were told to just run the screws down until an inspector couldn't get a finger nail between the screw and the panel.
Been working on Hondas for about 11 years now. Only purchased my torque wrenches(snap-on tech-angle 1/2 & 3/8) about 4 years ago. And that was only because we started having to put pistons and rings in a lot of the newer engines for oil consumption and other issues. Honda head bolts have ft-lbs and angle torque specs on almost all of their head boots and rod bolts, so I bought wrenches that can do both at the press of a button. Other than that there's probably only only 10 or fewer bolts, on any given car or job that I actually torque to spec. And the only reason I torque those every time is because they have a high tendency to break or strip EVEN WHEN TORQUED PROPERLY. Am I going to torque every 10mm boot to 8.7 ft-lbs? No. But a timing belt idler pulley bolt that will destroy an engine if it breaks or backs out? 33 ft-lbs every single time.
The Lotus DFV F1 engine was assembled by hand and without the use of any torque wrenches. If they can get away with hand torquing cam caps and main bearings for engines exceeding 10,000 RPM, then a Honda tech can get away with hand torquing most vehicle fasteners, provided they have the experience. I started out by using torque wrenches on critical fasteners that required an even clamping load, which gives you a feel for what is "right". Once you reach that point, you can confidently tighten 90% of fasteners you will come across without issue.
You should ALWAYS torque wheel lug nuts, head bolts, crankshaft mains, etc. Things like spark plugs, water pump bolts, and other stuff you can usually do by feel, I know that I can. There is always that one guy who over torques everything and snaps bolts though...
If it's something that can fall off and get someone killed (suspension/chassis parts, wheels, caliper brackets, etc) torque it to spec every time. It's simply a safety concern (just like adding thread locker where you should). All else is really about your willingness to redo the entire job if something goes wrong. For instance, only an idiot wouldn't properly torque head gaskets because it's a big job that has a high chance of failure if you wing it, but a thermostat housing? ehhhh... On the flip side, torquing a fastener takes about 20 seconds. If you have any doubt at all about it (or are inexperienced... I'm looking at you guys that put 50lbs on oil drain plugs and spark plugs) then get the wrench out.
the way i look at it is if you been working on cars for many years and you still look up torque specs for everything you suck. dont get me wrong i always look up torques for certain things, hub bearings, intakes, oil pans, etc. but i work with a guy who looks up specs for every single thing he does. sway bar links, alternator bolts. EVERYTHING. such a huge waste of time.
Just a note to everyone - you don't get to the level of ASE certification, and, own your own shop, website, and have 84k UA-cam subscribers by "doing it wrong". ;)
Yeh, being able to torque up bolts by hand is one of is one of the most important parts of being a good mechanic. My first boss didn't let me tighten bolts with a rattle gun for months till I got a feel for hand tightening, and I spent hours at a time in junk yards tightening bolts, then checking with a torque wrench, again and again, knowing the feeling of over tightening, paper, metal or no gasket, screwing into aluminum or steel. So many mechanics overtighten brake lines, a/c lines, hose clamps, 8, 10, &12mm bolts spark plugs, and end up fu@cking up the job, it all depends on how good you are at hand torquing, but I agree, any internal engine or trans bolts you should use a t/wrench. Thanks for torquing on the subject man : ]
The problem with torque wrenches is that a lot of times its not clear which torque spec you need for the bolt and if you get it wrong you just fucked up. A 10mm is always gonna be a 10mm and a 12mm is always gonna be 12mm. Unless they are grade 5 or 8 bolts, its basically gonna be the same. If its important than check it, but please torque nazis who cares if you got the torque wrong for a gas cap
If the thread is aluminium and is part of the engine or transmission then yea. Head bolts, engine rebuilt, camshaft bearing caps, cylinder head in general or moving parts, drive shaft, axles etc. (weather aluminium or not) I mostly work on my own cars thou. What I don't get is that torque angle, what the hell is that extra 90 degree turn gonna do? Torque wrench accuracy varies anyway.
Even if you do the math, you come to the conclusion that required torque is highly dependent on the surface friction in the threads. A 3% difference in surface friction can result in 40% difference in preload force.
Guilty as charged. I am a torque nazi. lol. That's just me, I love when things are black and white and guess work is eliminated. If there is a spec - a torque spec, a capacity spec, any kind of spec - I do the specs. Although, I agree with you that experience can let one slip past certain things, when they know what works.
A happy medium is just to pick a torque for each fastener size, 8mm on my 1/4 TW, 10mm on my 3/8 TW, and whatever larger size fastener that is common ready on the 1/2" TW, and torque them all the same. You'll find in the book that most of the same size bolts get the same torque. But yeah "farmer tight" is good enough for 99.999999999999999999999999999% of applications. Usually steel bolt into aluminum threads is where you need to be careful and accurate with torque. That and torque to yield applications.
Eric, I'm going to disagree with extensions affecting torque (to a degree). Yes extension will affect torque when using an impact gun. The extensions twists during the impact, but springs back before the next impact causing torque issues. When you are using a ratchet with an extension the torque being applied by the operator is equal to the torque applied to the fastener/socket. Think like this: if you place a foam pad on the floor and stand on it, the force being applied to the floor is still the same with or without the pad (take the weight of the pad out of the equation). If you punch the pad with the same amount of force as your weight in a short burst, the floor doesn't see the full amount of force because it is absorbing the shock. Universal joints and swivel sockets can affect torque since your turning at a different axis. A crows foot will show a different torque because of the offset. But using a vertical socket extension with a ratchet will not affect torque.
many years back i have a small car with 3 sparkplug, i change the sparkplug myself, one day halfway on the road i hear funny sound,guess what ? one of my sparkplug come out and my car work on 2 sparkplug, if i torgue it at the first place it would never happen, i do agree experience do count.
Having spent years as an Army aircraft mechanic we had to torque everything. It was overused for sure and made repairs very slow, especially when you didn't own any torque wrenches and had to check them out from the tool shed. Your right, it's not necessary on all applications.
I'll be investing in a nice digital 1/2" and 3/8" torque wrench for doing short block engines at work, 1/2" for head bolts 3/8" for rod bearing caps, cam caps, timing chain components, and oil pressure sensor. I do everything else by feel.
you are SOOOOO right on this. our experience and taught us when a fastener is going to break using a given tool. we would never make any money if we took a torque wrench to every nut and bolt. Critical fit surfaces, and rotational parts yes use it. but beyond that. my hands know.
Eric, You are correct. Not every bolt needs torqued. I only torque select items such as yourself. I always add a note in my videos stating to check your own torque specs, and to check the manuals cause my videos are only for reference. Can not stand the torque happy comments.
I torque everything to 80lbs. My wife can never open the pickle jar.
That ensures your utility as husband!
McTag Very funny.
I do believe that is the actual torque spec for ALL pickle jars, as least it seems so...LOL
🤣
Haha! As a former wife, I learned to break torque on said pickle jars. Turn them upside down at an angle holding in one hand and whack them soundly with the palm of the other hand. If that isn't enough, maintain position and hit the edge of the lid on a linoleum floor. If you have a hard floor, use a pot holder to cushion the blow. Works every time.
I'm glad we were able to have this heart-to-heart torque.
a conversation i had with my manager once:
Manager-"did you torque those caliper bracket bolts?"
me- "yeah"
Manager-'what did you torque them to?"
me-"tight"
Justin Clonts Not everything requires torque. Except wheels always torque wheels
@@ryans413 Yes but caliper bracket bolts can range from 60 ft lbs to 250 ft lbs on big trucks. You could easily snap a bolt on a small car or under tighten a bolt on a big truck. Worth it to look up a torque spec for any brake or suspension component.
nthnhansen Yes but for the most part conman sense plays a big part of its getting too tight then it’s probably way too tight right and if it’s still kinda lose then it needs more tightening. You make some good point those things you wanna torque probably but things like an engine bracket or a bolt that hold the radiator in stuff like that most of the time snug is just fine
The proper method is torque until the housing cracks, make sure no one saw then back an 1/8th
@@nthnhansen You'll have a good idea of how tight they are when you remove them since they're not easily accessible with impact.
I really love the idea of getting each and every bolt torqued exactly by the book. But there are only a few jobs where I will break out my torque wrench (Snappy Tech wrench for those that care).
Working on VWs, I use 1/4 drive a lot. As most fasteners are torqued from 10-20NM. It doesn't take too long to get the feel for 15NM on a valve cover nut.
But as I said on FB, I like to see rookie techs use a torque wrench for a while. It helps to make sure they tighten ALL the bolts, and properly. I have had to bail out plenty of techs for breaking or stripping bolts. Some times a torque wrench would have prevented that. Some times not.
Another point is, be sure your tools are in proper repair. I have seen several drain plugs loose due to a bad torque wrench. Just like with a scan tool, you can not blindly trust a torque wrench. Working on cars requires a little "grey matter" at times. ;)
+HumbleMechanic I can always count on your for intelligent input Charles. Thanks for that.
+EricTheCarGuy intelligent? I think you are in the wrong comment thread! :) HAHAHAHA
+HumbleMechanic in my head as I read you comment... It was in your voice haha! I agree that it's not critical to use a torque wrench in every case or every fastener, but doing cylinder heads, oil pans, lug nuts, major suspension work (besides those with castle nuts) I will break out my torque wrenches, as Eric said in the video, 12mm and smaller I just use a 1/4" ratchet, or a shorter (stubby) wrench, bigger fasteners I do have shorter ratchets to use, and I will NEVER use those extending ratchets (the ones where the handle can slide to make it longer for more torque) to run down any fasteners, mainly use that 3/8" one when a 1/2" breaker bar isn't needed. Just today, replaced an alternator on a friends 86 suburban, 350 small block, the entire time he kept asking "you gonna torque that" when there was no need, told him after 8 years you get the feel of proper/close enough torque, sure enough I looked up the specs, between 25-35ft/lb, pulled out my digital torque gauge and read 29,
+Aarons Automotive also did a thermostat on a friends 2004 jeep TJ as he refuses to work on for gear of breaking something but has also never turned a wrench in his life and don't blame him for that fear. Well torque spec is 13-17ft/lb, used a 1/4" ratchet to tighten them and digital gauge to make him feel better read 16, so again, you tend to get the feel of them, yes I'm sure I have over torqued fasteners in the past but never by a lot nor do I reef on them with a 1/2" ratchet. Use what's appropriate for the size, and I've found that 90% of things if you make them snug to where you think they're "tight enough" than give them an 1/8-1/4 turn extra and usually seems to be just great, even on my own vehicles I've never had anything fall apart from to little torque, and have yet to strip a bolt or cause a leak from over tighten, but will use the torque wrench when needed.
+HumbleMechanic +EricTheCarGuy
Experience builds muscle memory and one develops a "calibrated wrist" that is adequate for many fasteners and that same experience tells one when to breakout the torque wrench for when it is critical to be dead on.
NO TORQUE FOR YOU!!!!
+Danny Fasho No shit.
+ChinnuWoW Eric gets Torque'd off.
+Torpedomtb
But what's the apostrophe supposed to be for (to you)?
I was an auto mechanic for 22 years. I used a torque wrench on water pump, head, intake, transmission, all pan bolts, and lug nuts. Everything else was by "feel". I am now a high school auto shop instructor. I have my students torque almost all fasteners with a torque wrench. I believe that using a torque wrench over a couple of years builds the "feel" that allows a professional for the most part to do his/her job properly without it.
+Andrew Kavanagh I like that approach. Thanks for your input.
+EricTheCarGuy say one word and get 10,000 drop on your back. for the others just using a torque wrench doesn't means you know how to use one... do you know when to stop?
+Andrew Kavanagh well put,I've actually worked with guys that could torque a bolt by feel to with in a lb or 2 after years of experience.The torque nazi bean counters from corporate would always get on their case about it until they'd bet them a few bucks that they can do it by feel.The one tech took quite a few Ben Franklins with this one ;) and while they got a pass they'd also encourage the new guys to use a T wrench as much as possible.
*****
while I agree the problem is that there are a lot of things that will get warped,crushed or otherwise possibly damaged by too much torque before this point ;)
+Andrew Kavanagh Exactly Andrew, you are teaching them well because, when they have no access to one they will get by in a pinch!
Eric, my dad used to say, "You never have enough time to do it right the first time, but you always have time to do it again". I do believe that in your case, as a professional mechanic, you apply proper torque by hand. However, I'm afraid that you're giving the novice the impression that using a torque wrench is not important all the time. What if your water pump leaks, no big deal right? How about your suspension bolts, no big deal right? How about brake assembly bolts, what could possibly happen? My point is, torque IS important, and everyone SHOULD use a torque wrench to tighten bolts where there is a spec. Of course, I'm a little biased, as I work for Snap-on as a torque technician and trainer. (and thanks for being a Snap-on customer) Torque on dude !!
i found saying “click” out loud helps reach proper torque without a torque wrench
Head bolts on the trucks I work on are 350 ft-lbs +90 degrees. And there's 28 of them. That's a helluva workout.
I color torque all my bolts eric I keep turning until I'm blue in the face
love the Holden badge!
+OldSkoolFunkn80s haha, glad someone else spotted it
+OldSkoolFunkn80s Ditto, Had to watch it a second time though, lol.
+OldSkoolFunkn80s, I was just about to say the same thing.
RIP Fisherman’s Bend...
Hey Eric , you're completely right . When I started in the trade about 10 years ago by the owner of my company . I was told what made a good mechanic is to know what not to torque !
Not to mention listed torque specs aren't always right. Age and condition also effects torque specs. If you go around torquing everything based on a number off the internet you're going to do a lot of snapping and stripping.
If you get your torque specs from the manufacturer, they won't be wrong. When it comes to "facts" on the Internet my motto is: "Trust but Verify"!
I think it makes sense for amateurs to pay more attention to torque in situations where a pro might not. There are situations where everybody is going to torque to spec (and in the proper order), like with head bolts. Then there are a bunch more situations where it's up to you. I know I've paid a ton more attention to torque ever since I broke a stud off of the isolator at the top of one of my front springs by over-torquing the bolt. If I had more experience, I might not have needed to torque it, but as an amateur, I made a mistake by not doing so.
I suspect many "torque Nazis" are DIYers who don't work under time constraints or have a bunch of experience under their belts to serve as a guide. To them, seeing someone guesstimate torque seems 1) improper and 2) potentially dangerous. It's not dangerous at all for an experienced pro, but they're actually right that it might be for a beginner. Bearing in mind that a major part of your audience is inexperienced, an occasional reminder for beginners to consider using a torque wrench might not be totally out of place.
Ask a firearm fanatic how important muscle memory is. Same rules apply when tightening bolts. In automotive school one of my teachers was totally confident not using a torque wrench but wouldn't allow any of us to tighten almost anything without one. He wanted us to practice to get to his level of confidence... Great video Eric!
If you are not using a torque wrench you are disqualified from fanatic status.
I just use a $5 ratchet. When the bearings fall out I know the fastener's torqued down enough.
I'm a Kia technician. For the most part, I only break out my torque wrenches for internal components (i.e. Cam bolts, head bolts, valve body, etc). But honestly, the only thing I 100% bring out a torque wrench for, is head bolts. That's really the only thing that I feel requires it, no exceptions.
Why were you doing so many KIA head bolts.?
That alone speaks volumes about you as a tech.
You may break a few bolts now and again, but don't those mint snap-ons look spiffy! Not a scratch!!!
Yeah... you don't have to be a Torquemada about it. :D
LOL
Will you confess? No No No^^
+ETCG1 lol no you know they going to say. Why wouldn't you care to torque a customers car when they are your customers and paying you but yet would definitely do your own! Me personally I don't torque anything but then again I'm just a 'CARPORT' mechanic. Lol but will be doing my wheels now! Keep up the good videos your my go to guy with questions. All though I really wish you would work on a H3 hummer sometime. Cause I've been trying for months and months to figure out this cooling issue but nothing yet figured out. :-(
The last thing I was expecting was the Spanish Inquisition.
I like Jeff Bradshaw's way, he just goes 'click' when he thinks he's tightened something enough, he does it just to wind up torque nazis
Eric, I am worse than a Torque Nazi, I'm one of Snap-on's torque trainers. Thank you for the nice comments about our click wrenches. I'm proud of the fact that quality products are still being built here in the USA. I work at the California factory where your torque wrenches were made. As a torque trainer, I'd just like to add a few comments. While I agree that an experienced mechanic like yourself can develop a "feel" for torque, most young mechanics today do not have your experience, so to imply that torque is not important is a mistake. Yesterday's 327 Chevy cast iron block was way more forgiving when it comes to torque compared to today's aluminum blocks and heads. Don't guess, do it right the first time, or you'll be doing it again...
Excellent points. I'm honored by your input, and yes, I love my Snap-on torque wrenches. Although it's been some time since I had them calibrated. I should probably get that taken care of. Thanks again.
hey eric how did you end up with that holden badge
+colj001 My viewers from down under send them to me.
+EricTheCarGuyyou should buy one! very good cars
+2chadreed2 they are not sold in the USA, besides they are just re branded chevys, daewoos, opels and isuzus (except for the commodore which is a true holden)
+colj001 yeah I know mate, I never said how. he could import one
+colj001 Maybe Eric is starting a dead car brand collection. ;)
As you mentioned the "feel" comes from years of experience. I torque all the bolts on every transmission I build because uneven torque can lead to covers or extension housings loading sideways when gaskets are used. Also gaskets compress as different rates so sometimes you have to retorque once a gasket settles into place. Even with a torque wrench you still have to develop a feel. Example I had a transmission case that had 2 cover bolt holes not threaded deeply enough. I could feel the bolt twisting but not tightening. So how do I get Snap on to let me demo one of those digital ones?
+GearBoxVideo Thanks for your input. I'll say this, no one that I know of is able to talk to Snap-on. They're kinda like the Vatican from what I've seen.
+EricTheCarGuy exactly ain't that the truth
Kinda is. I've tried emailing, calling and got in touch with several people. The chain of people I had to go through to get to the right person was silly and typical of all old school companies not understanding new marketing. I followed up with emails and Snap On never had the decency to at least respond and say no. In fact I left messages with local dealers listed on their bullshit dealer finder and never got a call back. I was looking to buy a very expensive Torque wrench. Same actually for Mac-Tools. Fuck them all! Snap On and Mac Tools barely respond on social media. I tweeted to them all as well. Including Craftsman. On the other hand got an instant response from Matco with a dealer contacting me the next day and had a Matco ETWB100A Digital wrench in my hand within 3 working days.
Bottom line.... when you are going to drop $400 to $600 on a tool you should expect instant pre sales support. If they are too stupid not to make that effort then they don't deserve your business. After all, how would I trust they are going to give any support after the sale?
+GearBoxVideo what i think guys is that those companies are so famous for their good quality tools and mechanics well know that they consider they have nothing to support you guys are spendin large amounts of your hard earned money and probably getting a tool that was made in china with u.s.a stamped on it and not even know it how many times has that happend if those companies don't care for their costomers well fuck em someone else is ready to take their place
I would say 90 percent of the tool companies won't even call you back. I tried unsuccessfully with SnapOn, Mac Tools and Gearwrench. Matco was pretty good at getting me a dealer but basically are reselling Gearwrench products at double the costs. The only thing you get for paying double is a somewhat a lifetime warranty
"When the impact stops?" 4:53
LMFAO!!!
Once again: the voice of reason. Dealer Volvo and Audi: I do the same. I just hit the LIKE button at the start of your videos.
l like a speed wrench for smaller hardware, and on a 3/8 ratchet with small stuff l grab one handed and choke up on it,
+Mustie1 I'm liking my T-handles these days. The more I do this, the more I seem to move back toward hand tools. I find that interesting. Mostly because I've seen a lot of older techs using hand tools. I always thought it made them slower. The older I get, the more I realize the wisdom behind their methods. Thanks for your input.
+EricTheCarGuy I like air for tear downs and for suspension/body work. For eng/trans I use air for removal and hand tools for assembly. UNLESS the bolts are going into plastic, then it's hand tools both ways.
+EricTheCarGuy do you think you would feel the same if you were working in a flat rate environment?
I think for me, I'd be too caught up in my own habits to even try it. But I am difficult like that.
+HumbleMechanic Yes! Dude, you have to try them. I'm so hooked. I look for places to use my T-handles now.
AWESOME!!! #youAREtheoldguynow ;)
I use my own unit of torque, different wrenches/tools give me different torques. I use a scale of NT, PT, FT (Not tight, pretty tight, fucking tight). I'll usually use a combination wrench for PT, and a long box wrench for FT. Never given me issues
as a technician of 12 years, at a point you learn to "feel the stretching of a bolt" it takes alot of expierence
+william fox Lots of over-torquing as well.
yeah and as one who studies neuroscience, its not as reliable as you may think. humans are humans. we aren't computers.
+Mingo Reliance Your point is taken, however you can't rule out the value of experience and muscle memory. I'm not saying my methods are perfect, but they work a majority of the time. For me that's proof at least that on some level I'm not wrong.
+EricTheCarGuy yeah. for the most part it isn't harmful. all I'm saying is that the human body is very interesting in the way it functions, and that we may not be as precise as we think. Muscle memory isn't something real, but that's a topic for a different discussion.
+Mingo Reliance It could also be argued that perception is something that's not so accurate, and subjective. By that logic the comments to my videos about torque would have even less value than me torquing things by hand. :)
I also torque-by-experience 🤣
It’s good to know the torque spec. But I’d say that more important is to know metal type, especially of the threads.
Aluminum threads on an intake or heads are a lot more delicate than head bolt threads in an iron block!
On smaller bolts and aluminum to aluminum, or plastic to aluminum, I usually use the 1/4” ratchet.
But to use a baseball term, I “choke up” on the ratchet and……AND only hold the ratchet by the fingertips of one hand.
When someone dislikes something, they are more likely to comment than someone who favors something. Making more negative comments than positive. I have enjoyed 98% of your content that I have watched Eric. I say 98% because I cant commit myself 100% to something haha. But I enjoy every video I watch from you. I wish you had the same vehicle that I do, just so I can learn more about my vehicle through you! Not to mention, your camera angles are always perfect (far better than the majority of other youtubers), you know what you're talking about, you're honest, you have great content, and quite often you're funny! Just letting you know I enjoy your videos, even though I, and I'm sure many others, don't comment often. Thanks for what you do!
I agree with you. The only time I use a Torque wrench is for head bolts, auto gearbox sump pan bolts espeially if the gasket is a rubber gasket.
Years of experience turns your elbow into a torque wrench. You develop a feel for the nut or bolt especially when removing a rusted seized bolt.
Gr8 vid Eric 👍🇬🇧
Lol, I get those torque nazis too. I usually tell them that I use goodentight torque. Then there's those guys that get mad for me not mentioning torque specs in the video... They expect us to google it for their specific vehicle I guess;)
+BleepinJeep Yea, it's interesting to see what different people take away from our videos. It's also interesting to see what they expect from us. Funny what people will expect to get for free. Not saying I expect to get paid for every comment, I'm speaking more to what people seem to expect based on a video they watched on the internet.
+BleepinJeep Love your vids too bruh! I learned how to replace my double cardan joint in my Explorer thanks to you. 4 years as a tech and never dealt with one. It wasn't very easy to find with certainty either...you tell people lifted 94 Explorer and they're like a deer in headlights :-\. Good thing I know how to measure shit lol. Thumbs up and thank you to you both.
+EricTheCarGuy What, you're saying you won't come help me fix my truck in Canada?
+BleepinJeep I make mostly MINI Cooper repair videos. I know MINIs very well so I make an effort to put torque values where possible. If I work on another kind of car, I'm not going to put torque values because they can change even within the same model run and I don't want to be the target of someone's frustration for faithfully following what could be wrong values. All repairs are ultimately the responsibility of the guy or girl behind the wrench.
I’m not nazi but I do torque every fastener, including trim bolts and battery terminal bolts. If there is a spec, heck I will do it. If there isn’t, I will find it and if not, I finish the job and treat is as limp home mode until I find it again. It never is a bad thing to get everything to spec, you can never be too accurate.
As fellow UA-cam auto repair specialist Scotty Kilmer would say: "Tighten it down good... UUH!"
I use them mostly for internal stuff, for the rest I use my highly precise hand feel
Is that before or after the 8 hour arm workout?
I agree with you. I use a torque wrench a lot right now because I'm learning what each torque setting feels like. I don't worry about small bolts much b/c I'm not very strong and I can get to maybe 30 ft-lb using a half-inch drive and all my strength. If I snug something up using a 3/8 inch drive, it's probably between 15 and 20 ft-lb. I would have to use a breaker bar to over-torque just about anything. I have to use a breaker bar to get my lug nuts to proper torque. Once you develop the muscle memory, you don't need the tool unless you're going for a lot of precision and accuracy.
Any bolt involed with a gasket, critical bearing surface or tight tolerance ill torque. The rest I use a german method of tightening called the "goodentite" method...
Also there are some very car make specific instances where torque is critical. A good example is on a mercedes benz M273 engine found in S550's, the valve covers actually have the cam bearing caps built into them, so if you improperly torque them you need all new heads on that engine... so just know your car brands and always read the proper instruction on fixing the vehicle.
Another Millennial, that's the "Fukkentite" torque spec...
i always wait for the crack, its the only way to be sure
When I did Honda J-series V6 timing belt, I wanted to do everything properly. So I torqued every idler pulley bolt, waterpump bolts, tensioner bolts, gear cover bolts and crank pulley (to 189 lb-ft!). Two years later and everything is spot on. I'm also happy, because my instructor told me that he had students do the same timing belt and they messed up the timing by one tooth. The engine was running so rough, they thought it was going to explode or at least that's what I've been told. So when I started my engine for the first time and it ran like a clock, my instructor was impressed and I hope more knowledgeable now that not every student is just a noob with a wrench hahaha
Whenever there is a gasket or joint, torque to spec., exhaust shields... not really vital.
I try to torque as much as I can, but sometimes it's jut not physically possible (like my fuel rail fasteners).
Oblithian Good point. Sometimes only a wrench can fit in the space.
try charging your customers for torquing every fastener and cleaning every thread because if you are torquing you better be cleaning..watch your customers complain. few and far fasteners need to be torqued.
@ 4:14 Eric, can you post the video on "Twerking Headbolts". Just kidding man, it gave a great image in my head. Love your attitude, and love your videos. Keep em coming brother!
+Revoe Lucion I'll give Miley Cyrus a call to see if she's available for that.
+EricTheCarGuy I swear if you bring that chicken butt on here I am leaving!!!! lolololol
+Anthony Bair If I ever went that far, I'd be leaving with you.
+EricTheCarGuy even that Bieber guy for back ground live music would be better than that Cyrus chick for 2 seconds... Unless it papa Cyrus, that I could handle ;)
Thank you Eric. As per your with or without torque wrench. Try to torque steel bolt to aluminum at 20lbs. The bolt / threaded hole will stretch at 15lbs and if you use torque wrench, you will not feel the stretch and helicoil for sure. You need to feel the metal on metal without torque wrench and experience teaches you. Note, correct way is to retap and clean out but still will feel the stretch and less torque maybe the only way.
It's always interesting to me how those that can DO, and those that CAN'T criticize those that do.
My favourite saying is lefty loosey, righty loosey.. that way you know you have applied enough torque to a fastener.. 🙈
I always torque things that are important like Head bolts and crank rods n mains. Do I torque water pump and starter bolts.......hell no! You have to use common sense which really is not common at all. In many cases, a torque spec is supplied to make sure some heavy handed numbskull doesn't strip or break a fastener. Is it critical that a bumper bracket be torqued to a spec of 47in lbs? Fuck no! Is it critical that a new head bolt be torqued to a spec of 27ft lbs the first sequence pass, 54ft lbs the second sequence pass and then use a torque dial indicator to turn each head bolt an additional 230degrees for the third and final sequence? Fuck yes!
Except for internal items everything is snug as a bug. Lol that’s my stuff and nothing has ever come apart.
You should try working in aviation, the torques must be witnessed by an inspector. Yes it is important Eric. Thanks, love your videos. Sam. When torqueing a castell nut you have a range of torque, you start low and work higher to position the cotter pin hole or whatever safety device. I do understand where you are coming from I do not do all of this on my vehicles, but your so called feel is BS.
Depends on the circumstance a water pump fail on a car so what a propeller on a plane come off then you have a problem if a flange on an acid pipeline fails people die so again it depends on the circumstance and the risk involved in failure!
Well feel doesnt have to be that acurate but if its in 30% range some bolts dont really care that much. I know that although i like to torque with tw almost every bolt haha.
If a mechanic told me he torqued every single fastener including the one that holds the horn, I'd be wondering what he screwed up
i never twerk unless i have to
In small engine repair in highschool I failed to torque the flywheel nut properly(Didn't use a torque wrench) twice and ended up with 2 destroyed shear keys. I had to re read that chapter and found out I forgot to torque the nut. Didn't help that the carb wasn't working properly and the engine was going full throttle when I was starting it. Engine would start screaming and then there would be a loud squelching sound.
I have a pretty simple rule:
Torque to spec whenever:
1) Bearrings or Friction surfaces are involved
2) Large surfaces are involved (e.g. Head-Bolts)
3) When critical warpage can occur (e.g. Brake Rotors)
In all other instances: Do it by feel. No car ever broke because the AC Compressor was not fastened with 45Nm....
How do you know.
Range Rover owners had cracks in water pump housing due to some mechanic thinking that was the right torque.
So customers paid for two timing belt jobs.
ALL BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE AT THE CORRECT PRESSURE
@@chris77777777ify fuck you
The only improper tightened/torqued bolt or fastener are the ones that come loose or snap off after you have tightened it down. Whether done with or without a torque wrench.
Unless ur building an engine....just tighten shit and move on!!!!
Hey why are you torqueing all them bolts . Because my OCD says so...
You know in the UK it had become legislated that mechanics had to torque down head bolts and still have to have all wrenches calibrated every 6 months.
We had many garages that never did use a torque wrench on head bolts for years and some mechanic shops had returns and law suits against them for bad workmanship being the fundamental cause of the engine failure. Also note the failure caused accidents which resulted in serious injury and or death.
So they put in place a British Standard practice for garages to use torque wrenches and also a way that a court of law could fine and or prison mechanics and home DIY enthusiasts who were to blame for an accident due to their workmanship. Calibrated torque wrenches kind of became cover your ass mentality.
All that went out the window as well when Rover came around with the K series engine which does not have its bolts torqued down but angularly set being a stretch bolt instead of a clamp it tight fastener. Now many manufacturers are copying Rover in the stretch bolt design so a torque wrench is not that important any more but angular tightening is.
A torque wrench still has its place for suspension components and chassis to body mounts, bushings etc.
+Fireicer Cooper (f1r31c3r) What have you been smoking? It never has been law that a mechanic has to torque anything down in the UK. In fact anyone can call themselves a mechanic and set up a workshop today and charge for their services. I presume you are talking about the K series Rover engine where they boasted about their high tech design and build (they, like a lot of manufacturing plants use robotic tools that individually sense the optimum point where tightening should stop) but that didn't stop that advanced design being badly bolted together and cheap parts used internally. They are known as singing kettles because of their frequency of blowing head gaskets.
cfook
I remember reading the court cases that were published after the case was over regarding a person taking mechanic to court over causing a motorway accident after the cylinder head blew off and was convicted to the mechanics workmanship for being the cause of this.
It was an old case many many years ago. I am surprised you don't know that tools across the trade in UK industry requires to be calibrated to spec and is legislated.
It is not illegal not to use these tools but if something happens and you are in court facing the blame then you will learn fast what it's all about.
Yes the K series engine is a prone HGF no doubt about it but it was down to not paying attention to the cooling system. Making alloy castings too thin, if they were machined from billet alloy the problem would not have been so prominent but it was cheaper to cast them and with casting it is weaker and requires you to cast it much thicker than if it was machined from billet.
Stupid mistakes across the board for sure but that said to say that only Rover K series engines suffered from this problem is unfair. Even Honda, Alfa Romeo and ford amongst others have had the same problem and it was generally almost always due to cooling issues.
So yes cheap parts used, yes mistakes made but all in all the K series engine really was well advanced and well before it's time. This design has shaped today's engines you can not deny that.
+Fireicer Cooper (f1r31c3r) +Fireicer Cooper (f1r31c3r) You really should stop digging. "You know in the UK it had become legislated that mechanics had to torque down head bolts and still have to have all wrenches calibrated every 6 months." No part of that is true. Regular calibration is good working practice, shows professionalism, and is included in my ISO records, is it a legal requirement? Absolutely not.
"Legislated" does not translate into something you just made up.
cfook
I think you will find it is buried in the legislation and touches within hearsay criminal law amongst others.
It is what type of evidence is admissible etc etc.
It does not have a specific legislation defining this particular subject, it is how evidence can be placed before a court as to what is admissible as evidence regarding said allegations. If you prove you have followed all the good practice as to what is deemed acceptable such as calibrated tooling then this can be used as evidence in your claim or defence. It is one of them things if you neglect to do under certain circumstances you are going to struggle to prove your case.
If you are looking for a simple plain cut layman terms legislation about it then good luck with that, it is a minefield at the best of times.
I am not going into it any deeper on a Monday, you go do your research.
Remember it is said in a court of law, ignorance is no excuse.
don't know what part of the UK you live gagashire what shit
Torquing? I thought this was about twerking. Thank god you didn't twerk in the video. Love your advice, thanks.
I'm glad I didn't either. That wouldn't be pretty I'm sure. Thanks for the hilarious comment.
personally I like to torque as many bolts as possible. because the way I see it manufactures spend hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars each year on engineers that find out what torque those bolts should be done up too. they wouldn't spend the money if it wasn't necessary.
+DEMMERY11 but here's the thing, the bolt manufacturer has designed the bolt for specific applications, engineers make it look good on paper, most of the time it comes down to the manufacturer of the item to make it work, your torque values on paper might not even be the same as what it came from the factory as! I see it all the time, I'm on the manufacturing end!
+DayRider76 they are designed by engineers and made by manufacturing engineers, with the help of machinists and other various people. But, the torque values should come from SAE standard testing and/or real testing...........
I don’t torque nothing but head bolts.
I will say that feel goes a long way. I work in the AF building bombs for a living. we have a very specific bomb that requires 100lb/ft of torque on the lugs that attach the bomb to the aircraft. I can regularly hand tighten those lugs to within an eighth of a turn of the required torque without ever having gone over having built hundreds of these bombs. of course we go back and use a calibrated torque wrench because that's not an area you want or are allowed to violate what the book tells you. point is, the calibrated hand is real.
That is an interesting occupation you have there. Thanks for the comment.
You are right, but I don't think that applies in aerospace.
I do everything on my car, because I'm not afraid to get the necessary information and (if needed) tools for the job.
The torque wrench gives me confidence as a hobby mechanic, so I can worry on other things...it's just one less thing I can potentially screw up.
For people who don't work that often on cars torquing down is highly recommended in my opinion. How should I "lighten up", if I never felt the right torque in the first place. So as you said, it's a matter of experience, which a casual mechanic (probably most of your viewers) simply doesn't have.
I don't have a year of working on my car or owning a car and I got a feel for torquing spark plugs and lug nuts, i haven't stripped them or made it impossible to remove, haven't warped rotors, my tires havent gotten loose and ride off on their own and lug nuts haven't gotten loose without vibrations, so yeah, got a nice feel for them, I don't even own a torque wrench, just a 3/8 drive 1½ft long rachet and a 3 feet long breaker bar. For lug nuts I have a cross wrench or iron, not as much leverage as a breaker bar and a deep socket but it works.
It's a sensual thing for personal work. Can be emotionally and intellectually rewarding. Saves a lot of money!
Oh my god, I wish I could like this videos more than once. You're the man Eric. People make the torque comments on my channel all the time. I really laughed at your "lighten up!" comment, haha.
Ha, I wish I had trusted myself more than the wrench! ... I bought a cheap torque wrench because the German car I worked on had aluminum valve cover bolts and specific Nm settings, as I tightened them it felt wrong but I believed the wrench and over did it on all of them until I broke one! I now have an expensive one that, like you, I use when I feel its necessary and works a treat, but otherwise experience is best most of the time.
I'm running into a similar issue myself. I'm second guessing myself and my torque wrench. I'm not sure if it's me, my torque wrench, or somehow the aluminum in my car somehow magically weakened over time. I have a cheap harbor freight 3/8" click style torque wrench, and so far I've had questionable experiences: tightening a bolt into an aluminum transmission housing, and now yesterday, tightening a timing belt tensioner bolt into an aluminum engine block. By "questionable", I mean the torque wrench didn't click, and the bolt never seemed to tighten. NOT COOL!!
So I ordered a couple digital torque wrenches today so that I can actually WATCH the torque increase as I'm twisting, and hopefully stay out of trouble.
I also ordered one of those ACDelco torque adapters so I can check my cheapo torque wrenches accuracy. I hope to find it's the torque wrench getting me into trouble so that I can stop worrying about torqueing anything into aluminum. If I do find the torque wrench to be inaccurate, then I will be tossing my cheapo harbor freight torque wrench in the trash!! Hmmmm... maybe I should just trash it anyways!
Beam style torque wrenches never need to be calibrated!
Matt's Shop they can’t do angle so very slowly click and beam are out and digital is in!!
CDubs HasIt digital suck display goes out
kray brother I’ve never had that happen so far with my TechAngles from Snappy (2 different generations 1/4” 1/2” 3/8”) .. calibration costs a TAD more at times, but not by much. I love them. Never going back!
You nailed it!
I only torque:
cylinder heads
valve train parts
major engine parts
wheel nuts
That's it.
How would one make money on flat rate then!
It just takes some experience really.
ive watched your videos for years now, and am getting disappointed by your later ones. so what your saying is, you'll torque your own projects cause you care but not your customers cause your working flat rate. That's just poor integrity. Making a video or not, you should care about the job you're doing no matter what the pay. I feel another RE: video coming on
+christopher fuller No Re: video, this is my response. I stand by my statements. I'm sorry you see them that way. I'm not saying I'm only going to torque my own projects, just where I feel it's warranted and in most cases, I don't see that it is. I'm not alone in this as most professional technicians aren't torquing every single fastener. It's just not practical or necessary.
Hardly any techs use torque wrenches. Besides, does a plastic engine cover really need it?
+christopher fuller I got say I didn't hear that, to me it sounded like he torques things that are really necessary to torque and the most recent example he had of that was his own transmission. I dont know about you but I dont bother torquing every single bolt in my car either. Even if I wanted to it would be very difficult to find torque specs for every single bolt, usually only the bolts people bother torquing are easy to find.
+EricTheCarGuy I'm only going off what you said. That's all we can do. I'm a tech as well, and I don't torque every fastener. it is like you said, as a mechanic you get the "feel" for how it should be.
+christopher fuller no one has ever died from a mechanic not torquing everything to spec minus lug bolts but that's obvious
nice tool, torque wrench I luv this 👌
Eric, I am a big fun of Your program, but I am sorry to say sometimes you passing to people wrong message. I am mechanical engineer, and some of your comments are just misleading people who are learning. Most of my life I spent working on aero-engines, to be precise I am stress engineer. So I would apply Finite Elements method to calculate strength of all sort of components and assemblies. Bolts are one of the most important components (if not the most) in machinery, and when you saying that torquing bolts is to evenly distribute pressure around mating parts my blood is boiling. I don't want to go over here in detail, but every single fastener is calculated to operate and have proper pre-calmp force in hot environment, in cold environment, it is checked against slippage, against crush stress, or event to check whether they withstand impact/crash, etc, etc, etc. Really if that would be only about ditributing pressure, do you think guys in manuals give you specific torque for every fastener. I am messing around cars, quite a lot, and I have met hug problems with setting full wheel alignment when some of the bolts wren't properly torqued. I have seen exhaust leaking due to wrong torquing (to big, not to small) etc... What I am trying to pass to you is that you are trying educate people, so please do it right, without such comments as in this video.
+Lukasz Gryczewski Thanks very much for your input, but I think you misread my comments. I believe I stated that torque IS important, but it's not something I do often these days. It was not my intention to belittle the importance of torque, but rather to illustrate the point that after performing repairs as a professional technician for several years, I don't often break out the torque wrench. I understand where you're coming from, and the engineering behind what you're saying, but you leave out the ever important factor of time. As a professional technician you're often working against the clock to make a paycheck. To torque every single fastener to spec in most cases would undermine your paycheck. What I am saying is that after a time, you can develop a 'feel' for how tight to make things, and also know when breaking out the torque wrench is important. In no way was I insinuating that torquing fasteners was irrelevant. Thanks again for your input.
+ETCG1 Cool Eric. I am happy we are on the same page, well almost ;) I would like You, as well as other technicians out there probably put a bit more interests in torquing properly bolts. Personally along 10 years spent in industry I have seen only one a guy who has been checked against torque wrench and always was +/-5%. So I am not saying it is impossible to have the 'feeling' but still is molto important at least to be aware why you should torquing all bolts per spec. On the other hand I hear your fair arguments of people working against time - however I am sure you agree this is when usually stuff goes wrong. Generally I am against it, I think we should more concentrate on quality rather than quantity, shame that people up at the top level don't get this. Backing to the subject, from an engineering point of view (as I deal with a lots of technicians on a shop-floor every day) can you please sneak a bit more 'professional' knowledge? You probably get by this time I am foreigner but I hope this will illustrate what I am asking. Technician will say hole, engineer (or good technician) will say bolt hole. I hope this make sense.
Again You are doing excellent work! All the best!
+Lukasz Gryczewski u claim you are a engineer but u can't correctly word a sentence.
+jamesthegammer Being able to "word a sentence" doesn't make one an engineer nor prove that one isn't an engineer. He made his point.
+jamesthegammer Good thing he didn't claim to be an English major!
Do not forget to have your torque wrenches calibrated every couple of years.
Damn I just made the same comment, you beat me to it by about a day. We have done some government contracts that required documentation showing when's the torque wrenches were calibrated. When testing them, I find that quite a few are inaccurate buy a significant amount.
that's kind of the reason why I always laugh at torque Nazis,
I didn't even know torque wrenches were a thing you used outside of precision work (transmissions, engine internals, etc) for the longest time and I have yet to see a reason to. Most fasteners just need to be tight enough to not fall out and the acceptable torque range is between "snug" and "extra snug". The one time I've used a torque wrench was for the lug nuts on my car, but after the suckers started loosen up on me a couple hundred miles down the road I've stopped doing that. Now I just lay on them with the breaker bar and haven't had a problem since.
I used to torque everything even water pumps, UNTIL a water pump bolt broke because the torque wrench was not accurate. Engine parts, Heads, Intakes, Body mounts, Suspension parts. I use them. Everything else, Nahh. Oh, Ill never torque down a water pump again. lol A Torque wrench is nice to get the FEEL of what tight something should be Run it up to what you think how tight it should be, Check it with the torque wrench. Then you do not need the torque wrench all the time
This segment exemplifies what bothers me about taking your car to a shop. As Eric the car guy stated, he doesn't torque all fasteners to spec, rather he developed a feel for torquing close to that spec, thus saving time. However; you the customer is charged on a flat rate basis, which means you're being charged for the technician to identify and torque the fasteners to spec. You're not getting that service you're being charged for. The technician benefits by reducing the time working on you car and the shop benefits by charging you for more than what is actually done to your car. Both technician and shop benefits at your expense. Don't get me wrong, I have unlimited respect for Eric, but it's not cool to charge for one service while providing a "lesser" one.
Would you know the proper torque on my ‘02 Nissan Battery terminals? 😉
Kidding of course, great video! Thanks!
😃👍
And this comment section is why mechanical engineers make more money than mechanics
Having worked on several GE engineers vehicles at a shop I used to work at, just because you make more money, that doesn't make you any smarter. I see your point though. Thanks for the comment.
To Torque or not to torque ? Do torque the wheels, if you don't they are extremely hard to remove if you have a flat tire especially in winter. Believe me, even the brakes (rotors) will become warped and brake pulsation will be born LOL. You MUST torque critical engine components if you don't I will walk into your garage and kick the Tech responsible for such a blunder square in the Balls. LOL
Next repair video, after you snug up a fastener that has a torque spec, just say ,"Why no torque wrench? Because Roadkill."
I refuse to use “Torque Bars” because air pressure, air tools old & new are all different and the time I waisted at the dealership with a breaker bar and length of pipe made me want to harm the shade tree at “Brakes R Us” or where ever! Oh, we use a chart & torque sticks. Yeh, but your wife can’t change a flat because the LuG NuTs Won’t ComE OfF!!!
ASE Master 78.
Well, torque... Problem is over torquing, you strip the bolt or nut or the thread in the hole. Now if you are experienced with wrenching on stuff you usually don't over torque something by hand because you know when something is going to give..
But there are things where torque is just really important because if something goes wrong it goes really wrong.
One of those things in my opinion are wheels. But almost no one these days uses a torque wrench on wheels and with almost no one i mean the professionals.. The shops. Not the people at home.. There's no time, everything quick quick and so the wheels get hammered on with a big impact.
I'm glad i'm doing the work on my vehicles myself... I only had to change almost half the wheel studs on my car once.. right after i got it and did the first tire change.
I maintained Army helicopters for over a quarter century. We were trained and reminded to use torque wrenches on almost everything. Some things lacked a torque setting (for good reason), but they were rare. It's true that you develop a feel for fastener settings after wrenching for many years. I well remember the Technical Inspectors getting hot on us new mechanics over simple things like panel screws. A common torque for the everyday panels on Bell Jet Rangers (we called them Kiowas) was 18 to 22 inch pounds. We quickly learned that well worn panels that had been removed and reinstalled numerous times, the torque value held true. But on newer fasteners, 22 inch pounds was not nearly enough to seat the screw head flush with the panel. After it became apparent that the torque setting was not enough, we were told to just run the screws down until an inspector couldn't get a finger nail between the screw and the panel.
Been working on Hondas for about 11 years now. Only purchased my torque wrenches(snap-on tech-angle 1/2 & 3/8) about 4 years ago. And that was only because we started having to put pistons and rings in a lot of the newer engines for oil consumption and other issues. Honda head bolts have ft-lbs and angle torque specs on almost all of their head boots and rod bolts, so I bought wrenches that can do both at the press of a button. Other than that there's probably only only 10 or fewer bolts, on any given car or job that I actually torque to spec. And the only reason I torque those every time is because they have a high tendency to break or strip EVEN WHEN TORQUED PROPERLY. Am I going to torque every 10mm boot to 8.7 ft-lbs? No. But a timing belt idler pulley bolt that will destroy an engine if it breaks or backs out? 33 ft-lbs every single time.
"You Have not torqued your sump drain plug? No soup for you- next!"
The Lotus DFV F1 engine was assembled by hand and without the use of any torque wrenches. If they can get away with hand torquing cam caps and main bearings for engines exceeding 10,000 RPM, then a Honda tech can get away with hand torquing most vehicle fasteners, provided they have the experience.
I started out by using torque wrenches on critical fasteners that required an even clamping load, which gives you a feel for what is "right". Once you reach that point, you can confidently tighten 90% of fasteners you will come across without issue.
You should ALWAYS torque wheel lug nuts, head bolts, crankshaft mains, etc. Things like spark plugs, water pump bolts, and other stuff you can usually do by feel, I know that I can. There is always that one guy who over torques everything and snaps bolts though...
I dont torque everything either, head bolts are something noobs use torque wrenches on LOL
If it's something that can fall off and get someone killed (suspension/chassis parts, wheels, caliper brackets, etc) torque it to spec every time. It's simply a safety concern (just like adding thread locker where you should). All else is really about your willingness to redo the entire job if something goes wrong. For instance, only an idiot wouldn't properly torque head gaskets because it's a big job that has a high chance of failure if you wing it, but a thermostat housing? ehhhh...
On the flip side, torquing a fastener takes about 20 seconds. If you have any doubt at all about it (or are inexperienced... I'm looking at you guys that put 50lbs on oil drain plugs and spark plugs) then get the wrench out.
TORQUE TO YEILD BOLTS. Enough said. You shouldnt reuse em. Not saying you cant but a crossthread will help keep things together in that case..... lol
the way i look at it is if you been working on cars for many years and you still look up torque specs for everything you suck. dont get me wrong i always look up torques for certain things, hub bearings, intakes, oil pans, etc. but i work with a guy who looks up specs for every single thing he does. sway bar links, alternator bolts. EVERYTHING. such a huge waste of time.
Just a note to everyone - you don't get to the level of ASE certification, and, own your own shop, website, and have 84k UA-cam subscribers by "doing it wrong". ;)
Yeh, being able to torque up bolts by hand is one of is one of the most important parts of being a good mechanic. My first boss didn't let me tighten bolts with a rattle gun for months till I got a feel for hand tightening, and I spent hours at a time in junk yards tightening bolts, then checking with a torque wrench, again and again, knowing the feeling of over tightening, paper, metal or no gasket, screwing into aluminum or steel. So many mechanics overtighten brake lines, a/c lines, hose clamps, 8, 10, &12mm bolts spark plugs, and end up fu@cking up the job, it all depends on how good you are at hand torquing, but I agree, any internal engine or trans bolts you should use a t/wrench. Thanks for torquing on the subject man : ]
The problem with torque wrenches is that a lot of times its not clear which torque spec you need for the bolt and if you get it wrong you just fucked up. A 10mm is always gonna be a 10mm and a 12mm is always gonna be 12mm. Unless they are grade 5 or 8 bolts, its basically gonna be the same. If its important than check it, but please torque nazis who cares if you got the torque wrong for a gas cap
If the thread is aluminium and is part of the engine or transmission then yea. Head bolts, engine rebuilt, camshaft bearing caps, cylinder head in general or moving parts, drive shaft, axles etc. (weather aluminium or not)
I mostly work on my own cars thou. What I don't get is that torque angle, what the hell is that extra 90 degree turn gonna do? Torque wrench accuracy varies anyway.
Even if you do the math, you come to the conclusion that required torque is highly dependent on the surface friction in the threads. A 3% difference in surface friction can result in 40% difference in preload force.
Guilty as charged. I am a torque nazi. lol. That's just me, I love when things are black and white and guess work is eliminated. If there is a spec - a torque spec, a capacity spec, any kind of spec - I do the specs. Although, I agree with you that experience can let one slip past certain things, when they know what works.
A happy medium is just to pick a torque for each fastener size, 8mm on my 1/4 TW, 10mm on my 3/8 TW, and whatever larger size fastener that is common ready on the 1/2" TW, and torque them all the same. You'll find in the book that most of the same size bolts get the same torque. But yeah "farmer tight" is good enough for 99.999999999999999999999999999% of applications. Usually steel bolt into aluminum threads is where you need to be careful and accurate with torque. That and torque to yield applications.
I do the same thing in my videos. When I torque, I do not show torqueing or say what the values are.
Eric, I'm going to disagree with extensions affecting torque (to a degree). Yes extension will affect torque when using an impact gun. The extensions twists during the impact, but springs back before the next impact causing torque issues. When you are using a ratchet with an extension the torque being applied by the operator is equal to the torque applied to the fastener/socket. Think like this: if you place a foam pad on the floor and stand on it, the force being applied to the floor is still the same with or without the pad (take the weight of the pad out of the equation). If you punch the pad with the same amount of force as your weight in a short burst, the floor doesn't see the full amount of force because it is absorbing the shock. Universal joints and swivel sockets can affect torque since your turning at a different axis. A crows foot will show a different torque because of the offset. But using a vertical socket extension with a ratchet will not affect torque.
many years back i have a small car with 3 sparkplug, i change the sparkplug myself, one day halfway on the road i hear funny sound,guess what ? one of my sparkplug come out and my car work on 2 sparkplug, if i torgue it at the first place it would never happen, i do agree experience do count.
Having spent years as an Army aircraft mechanic we had to torque everything. It was overused for sure and made repairs very slow, especially when you didn't own any torque wrenches and had to check them out from the tool shed. Your right, it's not necessary on all applications.
I'll be investing in a nice digital 1/2" and 3/8" torque wrench for doing short block engines at work, 1/2" for head bolts 3/8" for rod bearing caps, cam caps, timing chain components, and oil pressure sensor. I do everything else by feel.
you are SOOOOO right on this. our experience and taught us when a fastener is going to break using a given tool. we would never make any money if we took a torque wrench to every nut and bolt. Critical fit surfaces, and rotational parts yes use it. but beyond that. my hands know.
Eric,
You are correct. Not every bolt needs torqued. I only torque select items such as yourself. I always add a note in my videos stating to check your own torque specs, and to check the manuals cause my videos are only for reference. Can not stand the torque happy comments.