the IJF has removed so much that a modern judoka would struggle vs judoka of the past, for example leg grabs if im going against a better opponent in randori i will go for a illegal move like kuchiki daoshi, and im pretty successful at it, and even though i "lost" they were the ones that got thrown the IJF has removed leg grabs, standing chokes and joint locks, leg entanglements (kawazu gake), it used to be that if someone held guard and you could lift them to shoulder level that was a win, non-traditional grips have to be used to throw within 5 seconds or its a penalty, you cant lock your hands around someone for something like a suplex a lot of judo instructors say 'your doing bad judo' if you use sacrifice techniques like tomoe nage or sumi gaeshi; I think they are just bad instructors, the only bad judo in my book is the kind where you or your training partner get hurt and cant train its not so bad that modern judoka can't effectively use the banned techniques, the problem is that THEY CANT DEFEND against the banned techniques
10th Planet gets a lotta stick where i'm from, I don't understand why, some of the techniques are amazing and I have so much fun playing with it despite not being very good at it, I think anything that motivates you to train consistently is great!
Kris Eadie Gracies approve of 10P eddy made some great contributions to the application of jiu jistu to mma, and Eddy says he first saw the rubber guard utilized by Royce.
Yeah, there's still a good bit of old school resistance to 10th Planet stuff out there but it's definitely shifted a lot over the years. Eddie Bravo going toe to toe with Royler Gracie and controlling him with 10th Planet style techniques really shut up a lot of the naysayers back in 2016. Stuff like the lockdown, truck, etc. are legit strong techniques and a lot of fun to use.
10th planet got it right for mma style fights getting rid of the gi and belt. He also tapped a Gracie n added rubber guard why not expand on movements that certain ppl can do.
As you said, these kinds of developement is a part of almost every martial art. Just look how boxing, kickboxing and even Muay Thai evolved in the last few decades. In my opinion it is a wonderfull thing. It teaches us to stay in track and get creativ with these circumstances. :)
Chewy i think Jimmy was refering to things like de la riva or spider guard application on real live self defence situation. Those technics are for sport application and not for what BJJ was initialiy created . The evolution of the sport is creating new technics that are useless on a real fight.
Keenan put it best: sport jiu jitsu is what happens when you put two people that both know jiu jitsu against each other. Textbook Gracie jiu jitsu works against untrained people, but what if your body lock doesn't work and you're grappling a wrestler? You pull guard (the Gracie did it too). And what if your opponent knows how to open your guard consistently? You develop a game around open guard. And what if the opponents are incredibly hard to submit? You start scoring points just for position. Everything else (spider guard, De La Worm guard and so on) just follows
While yes it is creating new techniques some of which are not workable in a real fight. But with se modifications alot of them are useful developments we wouldnt have discovered otherwise. Alot of these developments are used in MMA look at modern butterfly guards, halfguard players, leg lockers, ryan halls 50/50, im sure theres people making de la riva work somewhere Now spider guard isnt getting used in maa for obvious reasons, but if you have a good spider guard try getting the average joe to ground and pound you with a double sleeve grip its not going to happen.
@@happyfeet17gus I guess you could argue either way. Realistically the majority of fights go to the ground, and so leg locks are applicable there, especially if your opponent is standing and doing ground and pound, or if your opponent kicks you and you catch the leg and straight ankle. However adversely I think a lot of Jiu jitsu, including some leg locks, can in fact endanger the Jiu jitsu practitioner.
One major point based on what you were saying: Jigoro Kano never wanted Judo to become a sport. He knew that would degrade the art and its effectiveness for self-defense. Kano encouraged challenge matches and sparring, but he didn't want Judo to become a sport.
Your description really sums it up. Gracie Jiu-Jitsu in its entirety is directly descended from a "sporterized" system in Judo (and the various catch wrestling systems it borrowed from). I have no doubt that there were a lot of salty old Japanese Jujutsu practitioners back in the day who took every opportunity to talk about how "Kano Jiu-Jitsu" (as it was known then) was a mutilated art and a perversion of Budo. Hell, even *within* the early Judo community, there were guys who didn't agree with tournament fighting and Maeda's focus on groundwork, making many of the same arguments. Everything old is new again. People can train in whatever aspect they please and we're lucky that there are so many gyms popping up that are able to dip into both sides of BJJ or simply focus on one. Everyone's needs can be catered to.
I love watching your channel because in many, many situations there is this beautiful contrast: you seem like a big guy that knows how to fight. And then you end your video with a sophisticated analogy between classical art evolution and martial art evolution. Big love mate
BJJ is evolving just like Judo did. Judo in 1900 was closer to modern BJJ than it is to modern Judo. These martial arts move away from self defense and fighting, towards being a competitive sport with rules that don't exist in a fight scenario. Eventually, BJJ will get watered down, and someone will tweak it back towards fighting and rename it to something else.
(Name dropping here) but I was speaking with UFC title holder/ legend Carlos Newton about this a few months ago as his son is in the same wrestling class as my son. He said he knows many would disagree with him, but he strongly argued that there is a huge difference between sport and street BJJ. GSP recently said the same thing during a hayabusa interview. Sport/competition BJJ is amazing and I agree that it gets you emotionally ready for a real fight- and that is perhaps the most important thing. The problem people like Rickson Gracie have is that schools will market self defence to the public and yet will teach only sport because they want their school to rank higher in medals- and that’s good for marketing. That is unethical. There needs to be more transparency and honestly in the BJJ community as to which moves are self defence applicable and which are sport only. As the Gracie Academy argues, there needs to be a separation between the two so that people know which moves to use if ever confronted on the street. Also, I feel that seeing that there are thousands of moves and variations of moves, why not teach everyone at lower belts only the techniques that will work in both sport and street? That to me would make the most sense.
Oh as a traditional martial artist, Tae Kwondo pisses me off to no end about this. They advertise self defense but so many of their schools are geared toward tournaments. What I study(Choy Li Fut) will never win me a tournament, but I'll walk home at the end of the day. So yeah, it's the same with us traditional martial artists.
I don't believe there are any "sport only" moves, only moves you'd be less likely to need or want in a self defense situation. And anyone learning BJJ and doing the sport side is still learning all the fundamentals taught in courses like Gracie Combatives. Sports competitors simply become better at intricacies of the art, become stronger, faster, and able to stay calm in high stress. For example, I'd never intend to go into a spider guard in a street fight, I'd hope that I did a better sequence of techniques and nullified the threat better than that, but if I did find myself on my back and had a guy leaning over me wearing a jacket, I might use it to get advantage and control his arms. Same for De La Riva, Berimbolo, all these other techniques that people say shouldn't be used in a street situation. No, they're not a first thing go to move, but honestly, no sport competitor going against random untrained person is going to them first thing either, but they seriously would have an edge from their conditioning due to sport side
@@phoenixamaranth What you say makes sense for higher belt levels. However that does not apply to most people doing BJJ - which are mostly white and blue belts. We cannot assume it's common sense to know what moves are riskier in street/mma vs sport - some are obvious yet most are not (even though Keens just "tested" the validity of spider and worm guard in self defence and it was interesting). Even Damien Maia just said he is still figuring out how best to use BJJ in a striking context. My point is this: why not even bring up in class warnings like 'this over under pass will likely get you punched in the face- this goes into the mainly sports category". People like Luis Heredia teach that way, yet few others do. Again, most white/blue belts are doing BJJ for self defence reasons - yet most schools want the medals/clout and don't care too much about self defence. Head instructors likely earned their cred through doing well in competitions (not a bad thing). Many minimize the fact that self defence gives people an honest sense of confidence in their everyday life, and to them that is more valuable than any medal.
@@marcuspiscaer4120 no, it's pretty accurate because a white belt is not going to know spider guard or be doing a berimbolo nor will most blue belts until they're approaching purple. Whites and blues are taught the fundamentals which are core to self defense anyway. The only ones doing moves outside of core self defense techniques are higher belts. And comparing to people like Damien Maia? Hes talking about using BJJ against top guys in MMA, not exactly the common street situation. Of course hes having to find new ways because the guys hes facing are not only top strikers but heavily trained in grappling too. Your point about being punched seems silly because a person could possibly be punched doing all sorts of things. That doesn't mean it will happen or the move isn't usable. By that logic nothing would be usable. Hell, standing and even trying to run you might get punched.
I have been a practicing martial artist for a long time and have always hated the attitude that one thing is the best, and that nothing should ever change. I think there is value in tradition, but it shouldn't bulwark us into being mindless about our training. That was one of the best talks I've heard about how and why things change, and the importance of being a well rounded practicioner. Thanks for putting those thoughts out there in such an approachable way.
I agree, man. I think there are a lot of great techniques that have come from BJJ as a sport. I train at an MMA gym, though, and even though we love to learn cool new things, there are things that we know we'll use in BJJ that we would never use in an MMA fight.
Great 👍🏼 discussion & much respect on your perspective - I practiced Kindai Ryu Jiu Jitsu for years & what we were taught (& I’ve read the same) is that at the time in Japan the culture held civilized behavior in high esteem and Jiu Jitsu, which was originally for the Samurai who, for example, dropped their sword and had to fight to the death on the battlefield, was seen as primitive/vile/uncivilized. When Kano transformed Jiu Jitsu into Judo, it became more than just a way of fighting, but a way to improve oneself (the way we think of martial arts today), and that was more accepted by Japanese society at the time. I’ve read some sources that say what was brought to Brazil was Judo, and others that say it was still a form of or at least referred to as Japanese Jiu Jitsu then. I train under a Royce black belt so I’m sure I’m biased - we put the gloves on often though we don’t try to really hurt each other with the strikes, but I agree it’s a great way to keep it real. I think the sport is very cool, but I think the traditional GJJ guys don’t like seeing the art get too far away from street self-defense. Anyway, just my two cents, but I’m only a 2-stripe blue in BJJ, so what do I know...Another great video!! Ossss...
The most important thing is training the tecniques against resisting opponents. I see a lot of bjj gyms showing 1 hour of technique and then roll 5 minutes. Just because Rickson Gracie or some other "Grandmaster" like figure , e.g. in Aikido the cult or kungfu, made the technique work, does not mean that one of his red belts can show you the technique and you will be able to execute it. That is the root of the problem.
That was my biggest issue with my old gym, I stopped going a while ago bc all we did was like two techniques in an hour (with little to no resistance) and then roll and the instructors didn't really do a whole lot for you if you didn't do competitions. Paid 150 a month for two classes a week, felt like a rip off
@@tekal85 Yeah it was definitely more of a business environment than a learning one it seemed like. Love Jiu Jitsu but that shit made it seem like a chore more than anything. They were the first BJJ school in my area so they charge premium still, luckily found a better gym in my area I'll be joining once my state opens up
I really wish my school would utilize the Gracie combatives program. I started training to help me if I was in a street fight not to compete. But I still love bjj.
Great summary but also I think an important point is that people get hurt or ideas change access to mats change ect. And those changes create changes in competition rules which sharpens the techniques that are advantageous for that rule set and kind of limiting yet amplifing a certain style
Thanks Chewie! I'm so tired of "self-defense" gyms that try to poo-poo "sport" BJJ gyms. These are some of the same gyms that don't emphasize competitions because they are focused on "self-defense", but they are sure that their students would do well in a tournament if they competed. That's like Aikido practitioners saying that they can't compete because their techniques are too lethal and they would hurt somebody (I'm not knocking Aikido, I did it for a year and if nothing else, my forward rolls are awesome!).
I honestly am inspired by the humbleness you express about training , your a top knoch bad ass ,one day i will continue the same attitude with students .......but my journey will be years long (1 stripe white) hopefully find this comment in 15yrs as a black belt 👍🤙
Thank you for this as well as the vid on boxing (fear of concussion). Your input helped my decision greatly. I suffer from Scitzoeffetive bipolar disorder, I love the jui jitsu training I've been getting for the last couple years, but I've always wanted to push that a bit further by putting things into perspective of reality of an actual confrontation. I've seriously been afraid of that in regards of my already comprised mental health. Thank you for your thoughts sir.
Agreed that arts evolve. Agree even more so that it's useful to practice grappling with strikes. One of the things I find myself missing most about practice- other than the community- is rolling combat jiu-jitsu style. Cheers from the 10th Planet Freaks!
i think the way legit street techniques survive is through competitions like combat bjj, i think bjj has lost its well roundedness, ryan hall even said that today bjj isnt enough to win but if you add in a form of striking it keeps the essence of bjj alive, this is coming from somone who thinks sport bjj and traditional are absolutely different
Hey coach I'm huge fan and I've always appreciated your time and effort on answering my questions wich are all under MMA rules : -isn't it better to always clasp my hands in a Double leg if not when should I do it? -what do you think about cross facing the exponent in a sprawl? -how do I use butterfly hooks from my back? And again thank you for the help and time you put into answering and please don't be brief we are stuck anyways
I’m a huge fan of cross facing whenever I can. It’s demoralizing, hurts and can open your opponents grip/position. So I say use it all the time. Just be careful about doing it in training against your everyday training partners, but in tournaments and in the street, go crazy with it.
Yes, it is. Take a look at early UFC. That was a small man using BJJ in fights vs larger, younger, more athletic men. The modern training would likely get you in real trouble if you're fighting a big, athletic guy who is winging punches at you.
I have been mentioning it a lot lately, but check out Kudo. Basically its MMA in a GI with a few different restrictions and Judo style rules for how long they can keep going on the ground. Their ne waza looks like enthusiastic athletic 3-stripe white belts in BJJ, but it awesome that they have an art with integrated striking, grappling, and ground work in one system. Also, if we think wrist locks are cheap ... they are allowed to throw headbutts (admittedly only possible because they wear protective headgear).
Chewy - so many things here. But honestly this is the one thing that stands true with everything Gary and Gordon both have said it. There is no newaza if you can’t take them down. Having done both, USA judo and wrestling will give a better foundation in grappling, BJJ is the cherry on top. And if you play gi, you should embark on a journey in judo, not wrestling. And if you wrestle you should do judo, you will get better balance and have many more options in wrestling. On top of that judo Grand Prix is a 150,000 grand and is by far internationally bigger then anything the ibjf or the adcc will present. Judo and wrestling are massive in Europe, mid eastern, and Asia. It’s the USA that didn’t know the submission game and were awe struck. It’s just a hard sport. Harder then BJJ by far. Travis Stevens atest to it on multiple occasions. You should try it. It would help your balance. Scene your fights and you work way harder then you need to take people down. Take a private with Travis or hit up with a seminar he is about your size. Or hit a local club it will make you a better grappler.
Chris Windham actually judo is 500 years old. It was formally named judo toward the beginning of the 20th century. But catch wrestlers did spread catch wrestling in Japan and they taught them a few submissions they were not aware of. Judo taught them a few throws in and taught them some strangles they were not aware of. It was an exchange near the 20th century.
100% agree. I started kickboxing first with hard sparring before BJJ and I learned to respect the punch. Now when i roll , I parry collar grabs. Being on bottom isn't great for defending strikes so you need to learn your sweeps and how to strike from bad positions.
I'm wondering if they are referring to Rickson's comments of competition BJJ ruining the martial art side.(Actual combat) Too many rules in comp make for sloppier techniques and great techniques/strategies not being practiced since you can't use them in comp.
I think every other art has basically, only 1 iteration. Jiu jitsu has many different iterations, bjj; gi and no-gi, ibjjf and non injjf, 10p, lapel guard and other very unique iterations. Street/self defense/gracie jiu jitsu. Mma. That's not even talking about judo, cacc, sambo etc. That's not mutilation, that's dynamics. Jiu jitsu is multi-dimensional.
My experience is that when I train in a traditional BJJ school we train with slaps or with with punches with gloves on. That prepares you for self defense. Training for ibjjf or some other type of sport bjj without any consideration for strikes is completely different and doesn't prepare you for self defence. The same goes for takedowns. How can you drill a takedown without learning how to initiate a clinch while somebody is trying to punch you.
That's the domain of MMA. MMA is the actual heir of the kind of training you're describing. That's the sport that emerged from the original Gracie challenges, and the first UFC. Bjj took the path of pure grappling, so talking about strikes makes no sense. It's a different art, and a different sport. And I think it's better this way, there's more variety
@@hasanc1526 Ok, so what they called jiujitsu has evolved and now is being called MMA, while the jiujitsu name is now used to describe sport ground grappling. The actual thing still exists, just with a different name. All this debate is just about names. If you want to reclaim the jiujitsu name for MMA, go ahead (though I believe it would be pretty difficult to change by now). I just want to play ground grappling. I don't think we should be worrying by the name, be it Bjj, kosen judo or ground karate
For BJJ not to have a central overseeing body is just a strength. It keeps the sport evolving and developing. Otherwise it could face the destiny of judo that has been sacrificed for sake of TV and the Olympics.
Really deep shit. Yeah I think there is the Art part of the Martial "Arts" the expression of one self and stuff... but I guess people only start to appreciate this freedom of expressing oneself after a prolonged time doing the craft..
The whole point with everyone is not what your talking about. The whole situation is not against who's the best in competition. And in competition everyone is relatively equal. The issue is people who are learning the sport aspect only don't know to much punch block series and knife defense, etc. without using boxing, kickboxing. Even Rickson Gracie has nothing against competition but as long as you know the whole aspect of it. Trust me I do both. Some sport schools not all don't even have curriculum. This is and always was the argument with sport vs Defense. In competition everyone has an equal chance but not in the street with just JJ. The pull guard situation with Royce Gracie Vs "the wrestler". Both were good and I'm not taking anything away from the wrestler but after a few Royce Gracie wins people started learning Juijitsu to counter Juijitsu even if they didn't use it. Remember true Juijitsu has no time limit. That's why you can't compare the streets to competition including mma. The competition "Pride" at least was close enough. You could stomp, headbud and no time limit. I respect competition but just because you can beat a higher belt in grappling doesn't mean you can beat them in a full fight.
Sport BJJ great cuz it lets people who may not want to “fight” still learn grappling but now the contact Fighting aspect of the art is left out (In some schools) and people who only practice sport bjj may not have their skill set applicable to a no rules fight.
Judo is not an evolution of jiu jitsu. More like it was the sport that developed alongside the martial art. BJJ descended from judo which is why most traditional martial artists think of BJJ as full of themselves and diluted because traditional JJ was meant to kill or incapacitate your opponent. For instance all throws as taught in traditional JJ should aim to force the uki to land on the crown of their head with maximum force. This approach was more similar to a father teaching his son and nephews how to defend themselves similar to indo-asian arts like Silat and Eskrima. For this reason JJ seemed to be very disjointed and spread but in truth Jiu Jitsu translates to the supple art NOT the gentle art as so commonly misinterpreted. It is supple because of all the different characteristics and approaches that make it something special for anyone who chooses to participate. So in truth if your JJ is gentle and elaborate like BJJ practiced only for sport it is just as valid as my JJ which is taught with weapons and with the single intent to do damage to an opponent. We are all furthering the supple art and practicing the version of it which suits us. This is ofcourse the history passed in my style (Sanuces Ryu) and my interpretation as there is and should never be one single theory, school or style of JJ.
Change is inevitable... If you are getting hung up on tradition or lineage, as if there is some magic to proving its purity or value, then you are marching on a path to irrelevance. Everything evolves in some fashion and either dies out or adapts to new pressures. One of the best ways to deal with change is to embrace it, expose yourself to what is different, evaluate it to see if it works for you, and to understand how you need to change to confront it. You can go ahead and maintain some death grip on what you think is important and valuable, but the rest of the world is just simply going to keep moving on as you scream further and further into the void about how everyone is doing it wrong.
I have yet to find a proficient black belt at the modern game that doesn’t know the Gracie fundamentals. You don’t get to be a berimbolo master without closed guard knowledge, you don’t survive long enough time in the sport without learning the fundamentals.
phoenixamaranth mastering... not necessarily, I wouldn’t say they all are masters of fundamental, the point I’m trying to make is that any “LEGIT BLACK BELT” can do a back take, knows a few closed guard sweeps, know how to do proper knee on belly, even if they’re not a good as Roger. I was just saying that I don’t see how anyone survives the first two-three years of BJJ without being able to do close guard, or escapes, or knee on belly, or back takes, or mounts. I’ve been training for 12 years, and even thou I don’t regularly play close guard, sometimes I roll with someone that forces me to play it otherwise I’m toast 😂. The fundamentals will always be aplicable.
@@Eldeibi84 I've never met any black belt that wasn't a master of fundamentals, it's pretty much a requirement to legitimately get a black belt. The things that gracie's claim are missing from BJJ aren't missing, simply we dont see them on the sports side at high level. Those people still know all the fundamentals and because of the years of training will pull them out when necessary like you pointed out. I don't believe there's anything that's "sports only", just moves that you'd not choose if you have a choice and some that are very situation specific.
Hey chew! I have a wierd question that i dont see alot of or hear of. I just moved and im at my (2nd) ever gym! Been training for a few years amd a blue belt. As i got here the gym i was lookimg at has a (purple belt) owner and "professor" should i continue with this academy or bail and go to another? Thanks andrew!!
If your not learning or haven fun I would bail.for me that is so important..If you want to compete at Ibjjf tournaments.I belive that the Ibjjf does not recognizes anyone other then Black belts as teacher so you couldn't compete in Ibjjf tournaments because your academy is not recognized as legit.If yor having a good time and dont want to compete i would say your good where your at.
Beardzilla SDR John Jones a blue belt in bjj and khabib is white belt in bjj lmao . Don’t let the color of the belt scared you . If your professor know what he teaching and your having fun I guess you should stay . But on the other hand I know what you mean because their are a lot of franchises that well do anything to expand by making some peopl become professor
IBJJF should give more points to take downs and take points out for stalling! Give some points for submissions nearly completed would be nice ( im not talking about advantage points, they only count to untie a match in case of the athletes have the same score)
Do u think that when your grappling in a tournament you should go the slow and steady pace the way Gracie jujitsu teaches? I have a judo background and I question if that's the best way when I go to my jujitsu classes, seems new school bjj guys are getting more explosive like judokas and I wonder if it's because they are evolving into our way because it's more effective (not sure if it Is or isnt thats why im here)or is it just everyone is different. I'm just looking at it as the same as the evolution of judo where we went the same flow as the gracies back in the old days when they were taught judo, but no one fights judo like that anymore and I dont think if slow and smooth approach was better every Olympian would be do it the new way. I know there Is time limits but judokas did it standing aswell and changed to more explosive fighting style
Hi, I have a small background in wrestling and I understand the faster pace you speak of. I'm new to jiu jitsu, but I do think it is better to go slow most of the time in a tournament setting. I think if you can control the pace in a tournament situation (for BJJ), your technique will improve because you see and understand how techniques work better. That can directly transfer into a street where its faster paced.
When it comes to competitions it's going to be intense. It's about you asserting your will over another person. Unless the match is unlimited time (which most aren't) slow and steady is not the best way to go. You want to go out focus and assertive.
Thank you chewy, my jujitsu coach always tells everyone that a match should be effortless and you shouldnt exert yourself, but I'm explosive and very strong and in judo I was always told that they were my assets in when I fight and when I trained in 2 different jujitsu clubs they were both Gracie clubs and told me the opposite and to be effortless. Wasnt sure which was right path to take but not to play into my strengths felt unnatural especially where the guys I was rolling with where trying way harder then I was strength wise and often get by my defenses because I was trying to listen to my coaches when I new a lot of the times I could have moved like I do In judo with more success
Side point here (from my own perspective). Honestly, I think jiujitsu should just abandon the idea of takedowns. I think that if you want to honestly practice takedowns, then you should pick up judo or wrestling. It seems kind of silly to me that we have takedowns in jiujitsu when its so incredibly easy to pull guard. Sure you have to have a "grip" in ibjjf, but its really not that hard to get a grip on a sleeve and just sitdown. At that point there's nothing that someone with good takedowns can do. The only time takedowns come into play is when BOTH grapplers decide to embrace in the takedowns. And even when both of them do, the ref is likely to hit them with double stalling simply because if both grapplers decline to pull guard, then they're both confident in their takedowns. If they're both confident in their takedowns, then they're both going to be good at it. If they're both good at it, its going to be possibly two minutes before a takedown happens. Just watch some college wrestling. Many many matches don't see a takdown until going onto the third minute in the first period--that's the whole point of having a three minute first period. Don't get me wrong. I'm a wrestler. I love takedowns a lot. I actually prefer it to ground grappling in jiujitsu, but I really feel like this takedown stuff doesn't have enough of an impact and it just wastes time in the matches. The problem is that if you change the rules to make it more of an impact, then it simply undermines the beautiful grappling scenarios that happen in bjj on the ground. BJJ's strength is grappling after a takedown. I think it would do well to just accept that. If we want to have a more "mixed" ruleset where takedowns are emphasized as well ass submission on the ground, then that's fine, but I think that should be something different from what jiujitsu has become. Maybe my opinion is stupid. I'm willing to accept that.
Martial arts have evolved throughout the years, those that hold on to tradition and block out new ideas and will eventually be left behind. Look at most Kung Fu nowadays, believe it or not but people used to fight like that, those that evolved and broke traditional bounds became the next great artist of their time
Mutated but not mutilated. But evolution is an interesting word because it implies not a hierarchy of improvement but a selection for fitness and we have to ask what is jiu-jitsu being selected for? Like Judo, and MMA, the forces acting on the evolution of the sport are the rulesets, which are influenced by entertainment value. The degree of crowd-pleasing and practitioner entertainment that bring money into the competitions and get a sport into the Olympics and on worldwide screens, as well as the amount of fun and personal development that bring in students to schools. There is relatively little selecting it for combat applicability. It's a relatively peaceful world with less need for self-defense (especially hand to hand self-defense) and martial styles like Jiu-jitsu are not being selected for their fight functionality. The development into a sport with less combat application has been the evolutionary path of all martial arts: wrestling, boxing, karate, judo, bjj, mma. And there's nothing wrong with sport (in fact, Kano's greatest gift was Randori, the ability in Judo to practice techniques on fully resistant opponents which created a more functional martial style and led to GJJ and now bjj today) as long as we keep in mind that sport rules and fighting are different. But the old styles remain like aikijiujutsu and Gracie Jiujitsu with the practitioners interested in self-defense and something always comes along to fill the space of the popular self-defense arts as the older ones mutate into sports. Now that we have world-wide merging of styles it will be interesting to see what those self-defense styles look like going forwards. No longer will it be a question of whether kicks are better than grappling, but rather how do we do jiu-jitsu self-defense and mma with fully resisting opponents in more real-world scenarios and still keep it safe and uninfluenced by the sport rules and the desire to predominantly fight people who are trained in the same manner. Those that don't pressure test in randori will need to go away. I'm envisioning the planet wide self-defense style of the future here that takes the best from all styles and I think jiu-jitsu is a major component if we do like Chewie says and keep the fighting mentality alive.
In 1885 the Tokyo police service was first formed and they were having a debate: do we teach our new police officers Judo or Jiu-Jitsu? To decided they set up 15 matches between Judokas and Jiu-Jitsu practitioners. Judokas won 12 of the 15 matches. The explanation commonly given for the effectiveness of Judo vs Jiu-Jitsu is that Judo involves applying their techniques as hard as possible. Their techniques aren't all designed to maim or kill, which is why it can be a sport with competitions, but it also enables Judokas to train going full-force. In comparison Jiu-Jitsu schools in Japan at the time tended to only use techniques who maim or kill so they could never be applied full-force (unless you were running around killing people). So the Judokas were used to applying their techniques at full-force against an unwilling and resisting opponent, and the Jiu-Jitsu fighters weren't. There is also the important side-note that Kano and most of his senior Judokas also trained Jiu-Jitsu before Kano invented Judo, so they knew both types of martial arts as well, which would have given them a huge advantage.
The book “the toughest man who ever lived” is a fun and informative read on Kano and Conte Koma (aka Misuyo Maeda). Lots of fun passages of his famed bouts and his wild nomadic life. Lastly, bjj with strikes is a very useful reality check. Everyone should learn to deal with being hit
It's just like you said Chewy...things evolve to fit the world today. Jet Li said the same of Chinese martial arts: as the need to be able to kill people lessened, martial arts became more of a dance rather than self-defense/ass-beating.
As a Judo practitioner I'm used to hearing how BJJ is a "bastardized" version of Judo, so I find it very ironic that the Gracie's refer to "sport" BJJ as mutilated. I personally appreciate BJJ for it's focus on newaza, so for the record no negative views personally from me. I have trained Krav, and Judo and intend to join a BJJ school once this Covid thing has passed. I feel like there's room for all these variations depending on what the individual student is looking for. We're clearly not all looking for the same skill sets at the same time.
I agree with Chewy that BJJ has evolved like many other martial arts. Boxing and Judo are great examples. But when people complain about BJJ...it's very narrow minded.
I did judo growing up, the history they taught us was that judo was created as a defense against jiu-jitsu because thugs and muggers were using jiu-jitsu it to attack people, so they wanted a martial art that the common people could use to defend against jiu-jitsu and attackers, it's very much self defense, it works much better if someone is going towards you and you use their momentum against them
It's as much of a mutilated art as modern judo. As in, it's less martial and more of a sport. You can learn BJJ or Judo and be an amazing fighter. You just gotta UNDERSTAND what works or not as unarmed combat for self defense. About brazilian origins: some brazilians learned basic Jiu Jitsu from IJN soldiers during joint exercises (that also was japanese first contact with Capoeira, a lot of brazilian sailors trained it) basically the same years Maeda first arrived in Brazil - the 2 countries had cordial relationship. And the Fadda family learned from Luiz França, a brazilian who was also a direct student of Mitsuyo Maeda. The Fadda versus Gracie challenges were pretty common and were responsible for a lot of spotlight for the art.
What does not grow dies.change is a part of growth.if we dont grow we become stagnant.im not from bjj I'm from karate but we have the same issue.sport vs traditional
It's not mutilated, it's constantly evolving, mutating, adapting, between practitioners and styles. On another topic, I honestly don't understand why people would rather be injured than tap and admit defeat. I just checked out that article and watched that video. I see this attitude currently, and I always cringe when I watch videos of that happening or see it myself. It's always the men. I remember watching one, where the guy has a massive meltdown on the mat, punching the mat in frustration and rage and he couldn't even stand on that foot of his when everything was over. Is an injury considered as protecting your honor or something? I really don't understand. I prefer self preservation, but I know I do still get injured sometimes, bruises, broken toes, scratches from finger nails, but they aren't due to my stubbornness.
I kind of get what he means, rolling isn’t fighting. The Gracies are all about real fighting, self defense. There are “rolling” nerds that would get stomped in a real fight. Look at MMA, none of the more recent BJJ champions have had success. Why? The sport bjj they do doesn’t translate when there are strikes and wrestling. No judo guys either...
@@temoherbertlopez6019 and ryan hall, and Demian Maia, oh and also Rodolfo Viera, and of course Gilbert Burns. Not to mention Jacare Souza.... It seems sport JJ does translate. But obviously not everything. Sport JJ is invented to beat BJJ. The shoulder rolling and ducking under punches in boxing doesn't work in M.M.A. either, because you'll get kicked in the face. Does that mean boxing doesn't work.... of course not. Sport specific techniques are useful to that sport, but have to be adapted to M.M.A.
I don't think that's true at all. The guys today are much better and more well rounded than they used to be. Many have learned so much not just from classes but from online instructionals and watching these champs of the sport go at it that they are way better than back 90's and 00's. Remember that still translates to taking out inexperienced threats in the street since they don't know how to defend most of it. This notion that sports are dulling it down don't seem to hold merit as most competitors I know are stronger, faster, and more clear headed in high stress situations thanks to competition. The sports side compliments the self defense side in ways not being considered.
I am not expert but I have read from multiple sources that the Japanese actually forbade teaching Judo to people who were not Japanese. So when Maeda went around the world fighting he taught without Kano knowing so that he could earn an income. Again, I am not an expert but that is what I have read from multiple sources.
Not the case actually, at least to my knowledge. Kano himself travelled the world giving demonstrations and teaching judo to foreigners (see, for example, his writings in Mind Over Muscle), and sent his students abroad to spread the art. What he did prohibit, however, was his students engaging in prize fighting, which is the reason many cite for Maeda marketing himself as a "Jiu-jitsu" fighter father than a judo one.
not that Kano wanted to make a sport but more so he wanted to train at 100% effort without hurting his training partner. He also was a smaller guy so he threw out the techniques that required strength sound familiar?
Because evolution is non-directive, by definition it is not always adaptive. There are situations in which something evolves to be worse or more homogenized like no-gi bjj has over the years
I know it's not the main point of the video. But I always get a lot of flack from people at my gym for not wanting to do striking, kickboxing, pure wrestling, etc.. While I do agree if you want to train for self defence reasons, of want to be able to fight you need to learn these things. But I really have no interest whatsoever. I just train BJJ because I like overcoming pressure and the strategy side of it. I do not want to be punched or kicked in the slightest.
My son and I just had a conversation about knee on belly. He thought I was saying neon belly 😆 I have a southern accent so some of my words sound funny to him.
Sport BJJ is not any more mutilated than Collegiate Wrestling is "mutilated wrestling". That style and rule-set for wrestling in HS and College in the US has a much more limited rule-set than catch or even freestyle Olympic wrestling. Yet consistently, experienced, accomplished wrestlers from this discipline take like fish to water when they start BJJ and are quite competitive as white belts, so much that there are "gentlemen's agreements" to have them start as blue belts in competition, just like with experienced Judo competitors. I state this to demonstrate that however "watered down" or "mutilated" it may be, excellence in just about any grappling competition requires development of principles, skills, techniques, mindset and conditioning that are legit foundations and preparation for fight grappling.
You BJJ practitioners have it easy. If you want a mutilated martial art thanks to government oppression, box office exploitation, and broken lineages, look no figure than kung fu. First, in the 1700's, the Qing government burned down the Shaolin temples, killing most of the original Shaolin monks and leaving derivative styles that had to go into hiding (e.g. Hung Gar, Choy Li Fut). Sanda/Sanshou is the Communist government's interpretation of traditional kung fu, not the original stuff. Second, in the 1950's, the Communist government created Wushu (martial-inspired performance art) to replace legitimate kung fu (i.e. kung fu with working biomechanics) as the official national martial art. Third, in the 1970's, there were kung fu flicks that badly distorted how kung fu is actually trained and used. When I see kung fu videos uploaded to the internet, the vast majority of it is *terrible* (to be very polite). Zero biomechanics, so much emphasis on speed and flash (like Wushu) rather than power generation and body structure/stability. Kung fu gets watered down with every generation rather than evolving through personal interpretation like BJJ.
All that is so true!!!! The Chinese government really did ruin Kung Fu from the spectacular and extensive martial art that it used to be. Most martial artists don't even know that Kung Fu also has ground fighting. All of the traditional martial arts have been watered down so much as they have been passed down over and over again. How many have seen the 14 year old Karate black belts that know almost nothing about fighting. It's a real shame!
How about instead of hanging on to the dead patterns of kung fu you put on some gloves and learn how to fight for real? The speed at which mixed combat systems are evolving now is unprecedented and makes a mockery of what came before.
@@stuartperry-hughes5969 How about, in addition to what I practice at my kung fu school, I take up Police Judo to expand on the techniques not emphasized in my kung fu? What, real police training by current police trainers not "real" enough for you? When was the last time you challenged yourself by forcing yourself into a total different martial art and training environment to address deficits in your base style (which every martial art has)?
@@stuartperry-hughes5969 Moreover, if you think that kata or forms are just "dead patterns" with no use, then you're very ignorant. Have you actually learned and practiced forms? *If not, maybe you should do so and have so authentic experience before commenting.* Perfect example is Jesse Enkamp (traditional karateka) teaching a "dead pattern" to Icy Mike (MMA/former cop). In the first move, you can see Icy Mike does not have any structured biomechanics to what he does. I put in a comment that highlights the absence of body structure and power generation in Mike's technique in contrast to what Enkamp does - Enkamp tagged the comment so apparently he agrees with me. Icy Mike was also humbled by the experience. ua-cam.com/video/6YpQp_gczCE/v-deo.html "Dead pattern" forms are structured shadow boxing to help people learn, memorize, and understand the biomechanics of techniques. You practice each technique individually so you understand that biomechanic and then you practice the transition between techniques so you understand the inter-related biomechanics. Then you practice it with a partner or training device (e.g. heavy bag, double-ended bag, maki-wara, wooden dummy - all of which I do). Eventually, you transition from techniques to biomechanics. Historically, forms were necessary in cultures that had low literacy/oral traditions and/or needed to hide their techniques from oppression (e.g. kung fu, capoeira). Even though those imperatives no longer exist, traditional forms have great utility in how they allow the continuation of culture, institutionalize core/signature techniques, and allow you to practice on your own (which is much easier for a striking art than a grappling art).
Honestly my only fear is that our art goes the same way as karate. I would hate to live in a world where a BJJ black belt meant nothing. As it is right now, if I meet someone who is a black belt in BJJ I can pretty safely assume they put in the time, they know their shit, and should be respected. But the same cannot be said about A LOT karate black belts. But far as the styles of the art go, I love watching it grow and morph. I love sport BJJ but I like the "real" shit too. I think at the end of the day as long as we all remember that the art is supposed to be able to be used to end an IRL fight everything will be OK.
The problem between GJJ and BJJ that many adepts of GJJ don't know really what's in IBJJF program. GJJ says - IBJJF doesn't teach self-defense, which is absolutely not true. Anyone can have a look at Gracie Barra (biggest BJJ clubs network with more than 800 academies) Fundamental curriculum. Each week has self-defense part to work on. Anyone can just Google that - it is open information. Needless to say, that owner of Gracie Barra is Carlos Gracie Jr. and he is the President of IBJJF. Alliance team of Fabio is the same. They have robust self-defense program in place. I have no idea why people from GJJ exaggerating with self-defense part, positioning that they are only who have proper self-defense program. I would say - GCC is nowdays most conservative branch resisting to wide developments happening around. No problem with such conservatism, and good that someone wants to keep art as developed by Rikson/Royce Gracie, but there is no point to blame other branches who is going further and beyond and wants to develop art. Very good example is Renzo Gracie academy and John Danaher particularly.
That is one Gracie’s opinion. The guys I train with and learn from are quite open minded. Just find a good academy that suits you where your instructors care about you and train you properly and it’s all good. Get on the mat Jimmy! 😃
No the evolution in jiu-jitsu it's not a bad thing but it's going in the wrong direction. .. competition focus only serves a very small part of students the majority does not compete. .. the majority needs jiu-jitsu with street focus self-defense oriented. . The sport part is the only part that evolved in jiu-jitsu to serve the few. That's my opinion .. Osu
Ok so I see your argument, I am not a BJJ practitioner (I'm planning on starting once things cool off with covid) but I kind of disagree with the overall message, yes self defense is important and I feel like it is one of the first things taught, I feel like the best representation for a street fight would be MMA, simply due to the lack of rules and the wife variety of things and opponent would try and do (slamming, punching, kicking, kneeing, elbowing, choking) So while I agree, from my limited knowledge, that BJJ should have some focus on self defense, I feel like the ultimate self defense training would be to go to an MMA gym, for many reasons, like knowing how to take a punch, and having that uncertainty of what you opponent is going to do next. Just my 2¢
@@cnppreactorno.4965 yes indeed but please remember that the jiu-jitsu that all the greats learned were street fight based ... today called self-defense but the truth was that they learned how to fight in Gracie Jiu-jitsu strikes and kicks were included and elbows also in oder to use the jiu-jitsu in the street fights . Today most of the techniques develop they don't have street fighting application. .. the Gracie Jiu-jitsu have strikes, self-defense with weaponry, and sport jiu-jitsu , the majority of the Academies focus mostly in sport jiu-jitsu and that's 2 different animals ... doing jiu-jitsu with strikes and sport jiu-jitsu like today are different and guess what version of Bjj is best for defending your self? ?? Even mma it's not to deal with street problems Focus .. ok one learn to fight but and when weponds like knifes came in to play ?? And other likely scenarios that mma your actual jiu-jitsu doesn't cover ??? So the idea and first focus of Helio Gracie was indeed the real fight against others ways of fighting and not only jiu-jitsu vs jiu-jitsu. .. Just saying street fighting it's a different animal then just doing no strikes grappling and no weponds training like it is today ... I love jiu-jitsu and I train Gracie Jiu-jitsu and most of us don't compete but we all hit the streets .... Jiu-jitsu should cover all aspects of life like master Helio wanted ... and not this sport vision that limit the jiu-jitsu. .. Tray to do grappling with strikes and then try to do it with knifes and baseball bats and then mix it all up and quickly you and everyone will understand what I'm talking about. ..
I read that article. That's the type of dude that says leglocks don't work and then gets his leg destroyed out of pride.
leg locks work so well they just banned them from judo because students would injure themself too much out of otherconfidence.
leglocks are great
the IJF has removed so much that a modern judoka would struggle vs judoka of the past, for example leg grabs if im going against a better opponent in randori i will go for a illegal move like kuchiki daoshi, and im pretty successful at it, and even though i "lost" they were the ones that got thrown
the IJF has removed leg grabs, standing chokes and joint locks, leg entanglements (kawazu gake), it used to be that if someone held guard and you could lift them to shoulder level that was a win, non-traditional grips have to be used to throw within 5 seconds or its a penalty, you cant lock your hands around someone for something like a suplex
a lot of judo instructors say 'your doing bad judo' if you use sacrifice techniques like tomoe nage or sumi gaeshi; I think they are just bad instructors, the only bad judo in my book is the kind where you or your training partner get hurt and cant train
its not so bad that modern judoka can't effectively use the banned techniques, the problem is that THEY CANT DEFEND against the banned techniques
PHOBOS appreciate your input.
10th Planet gets a lotta stick where i'm from, I don't understand why, some of the techniques are amazing and I have so much fun playing with it despite not being very good at it, I think anything that motivates you to train consistently is great!
Kris Eadie Gracies approve of 10P eddy made some great contributions to the application of jiu jistu to mma, and Eddy says he first saw the rubber guard utilized by Royce.
@@Brian-hg3gt Everyday's a school day! That's what I love about this sport
Yeah, there's still a good bit of old school resistance to 10th Planet stuff out there but it's definitely shifted a lot over the years. Eddie Bravo going toe to toe with Royler Gracie and controlling him with 10th Planet style techniques really shut up a lot of the naysayers back in 2016. Stuff like the lockdown, truck, etc. are legit strong techniques and a lot of fun to use.
10th planet got it right for mma style fights getting rid of the gi and belt. He also tapped a Gracie n added rubber guard why not expand on movements that certain ppl can do.
Bruce Cabella when you say certain people what do you mean? Is this dependent on knee flexibility? I know this is highly debated as well.
As you said, these kinds of developement is a part of almost every martial art. Just look how boxing, kickboxing and even Muay Thai evolved in the last few decades. In my opinion it is a wonderfull thing. It teaches us to stay in track and get creativ with these circumstances. :)
Chewy i think Jimmy was refering to things like de la riva or spider guard application on real live self defence situation. Those technics are for sport application and not for what BJJ was initialiy created . The evolution of the sport is creating new technics that are useless on a real fight.
Would Leg locks count as the evolution of new moves that are useless on a real fight?
Keenan put it best: sport jiu jitsu is what happens when you put two people that both know jiu jitsu against each other. Textbook Gracie jiu jitsu works against untrained people, but what if your body lock doesn't work and you're grappling a wrestler? You pull guard (the Gracie did it too). And what if your opponent knows how to open your guard consistently? You develop a game around open guard. And what if the opponents are incredibly hard to submit? You start scoring points just for position. Everything else (spider guard, De La Worm guard and so on) just follows
While yes it is creating new techniques some of which are not workable in a real fight. But with se modifications alot of them are useful developments we wouldnt have discovered otherwise.
Alot of these developments are used in MMA look at modern butterfly guards, halfguard players, leg lockers, ryan halls 50/50, im sure theres people making de la riva work somewhere
Now spider guard isnt getting used in maa for obvious reasons, but if you have a good spider guard try getting the average joe to ground and pound you with a double sleeve grip its not going to happen.
@@happyfeet17gus
I guess you could argue either way.
Realistically the majority of fights go to the ground, and so leg locks are applicable there, especially if your opponent is standing and doing ground and pound, or if your opponent kicks you and you catch the leg and straight ankle.
However adversely I think a lot of Jiu jitsu, including some leg locks, can in fact endanger the Jiu jitsu practitioner.
@@happyfeet17gus leg locks always exist. The only thing new is a structure d system for it.
Chewy. Ha ha I thought knee on belly, was neon belly when I started Bjj. Your shirt blew my mind.
Same lmao. It took me a few weeks to notice that hey, there's a fuckin knee on their belly
One major point based on what you were saying: Jigoro Kano never wanted Judo to become a sport. He knew that would degrade the art and its effectiveness for self-defense. Kano encouraged challenge matches and sparring, but he didn't want Judo to become a sport.
Your description really sums it up. Gracie Jiu-Jitsu in its entirety is directly descended from a "sporterized" system in Judo (and the various catch wrestling systems it borrowed from). I have no doubt that there were a lot of salty old Japanese Jujutsu practitioners back in the day who took every opportunity to talk about how "Kano Jiu-Jitsu" (as it was known then) was a mutilated art and a perversion of Budo. Hell, even *within* the early Judo community, there were guys who didn't agree with tournament fighting and Maeda's focus on groundwork, making many of the same arguments.
Everything old is new again. People can train in whatever aspect they please and we're lucky that there are so many gyms popping up that are able to dip into both sides of BJJ or simply focus on one. Everyone's needs can be catered to.
Coming from a traditional Japanese background, I find the evolutionary nature of BJJ to be a strength in addition to just being refreshing.
I love watching your channel because in many, many situations there is this beautiful contrast: you seem like a big guy that knows how to fight. And then you end your video with a sophisticated analogy between classical art evolution and martial art evolution. Big love mate
BJJ is evolving just like Judo did. Judo in 1900 was closer to modern BJJ than it is to modern Judo. These martial arts move away from self defense and fighting, towards being a competitive sport with rules that don't exist in a fight scenario. Eventually, BJJ will get watered down, and someone will tweak it back towards fighting and rename it to something else.
(Name dropping here) but I was speaking with UFC title holder/ legend Carlos Newton about this a few months ago as his son is in the same wrestling class as my son. He said he knows many would disagree with him, but he strongly argued that there is a huge difference between sport and street BJJ. GSP recently said the same thing during a hayabusa interview. Sport/competition BJJ is amazing and I agree that it gets you emotionally ready for a real fight- and that is perhaps the most important thing. The problem people like Rickson Gracie have is that schools will market self defence to the public and yet will teach only sport because they want their school to rank higher in medals- and that’s good for marketing. That is unethical. There needs to be more transparency and honestly in the BJJ community as to which moves are self defence applicable and which are sport only. As the Gracie Academy argues, there needs to be a separation between the two so that people know which moves to use if ever confronted on the street. Also, I feel that seeing that there are thousands of moves and variations of moves, why not teach everyone at lower belts only the techniques that will work in both sport and street? That to me would make the most sense.
Oh as a traditional martial artist, Tae Kwondo pisses me off to no end about this. They advertise self defense but so many of their schools are geared toward tournaments.
What I study(Choy Li Fut) will never win me a tournament, but I'll walk home at the end of the day.
So yeah, it's the same with us traditional martial artists.
I don't believe there are any "sport only" moves, only moves you'd be less likely to need or want in a self defense situation. And anyone learning BJJ and doing the sport side is still learning all the fundamentals taught in courses like Gracie Combatives. Sports competitors simply become better at intricacies of the art, become stronger, faster, and able to stay calm in high stress. For example, I'd never intend to go into a spider guard in a street fight, I'd hope that I did a better sequence of techniques and nullified the threat better than that, but if I did find myself on my back and had a guy leaning over me wearing a jacket, I might use it to get advantage and control his arms. Same for De La Riva, Berimbolo, all these other techniques that people say shouldn't be used in a street situation. No, they're not a first thing go to move, but honestly, no sport competitor going against random untrained person is going to them first thing either, but they seriously would have an edge from their conditioning due to sport side
@@phoenixamaranth What you say makes sense for higher belt levels. However that does not apply to most people doing BJJ - which are mostly white and blue belts. We cannot assume it's common sense to know what moves are riskier in street/mma vs sport - some are obvious yet most are not (even though Keens just "tested" the validity of spider and worm guard in self defence and it was interesting). Even Damien Maia just said he is still figuring out how best to use BJJ in a striking context. My point is this: why not even bring up in class warnings like 'this over under pass will likely get you punched in the face- this goes into the mainly sports category". People like Luis Heredia teach that way, yet few others do. Again, most white/blue belts are doing BJJ for self defence reasons - yet most schools want the medals/clout and don't care too much about self defence. Head instructors likely earned their cred through doing well in competitions (not a bad thing). Many minimize the fact that self defence gives people an honest sense of confidence in their everyday life, and to them that is more valuable than any medal.
@@marcuspiscaer4120 no, it's pretty accurate because a white belt is not going to know spider guard or be doing a berimbolo nor will most blue belts until they're approaching purple. Whites and blues are taught the fundamentals which are core to self defense anyway. The only ones doing moves outside of core self defense techniques are higher belts. And comparing to people like Damien Maia? Hes talking about using BJJ against top guys in MMA, not exactly the common street situation. Of course hes having to find new ways because the guys hes facing are not only top strikers but heavily trained in grappling too. Your point about being punched seems silly because a person could possibly be punched doing all sorts of things. That doesn't mean it will happen or the move isn't usable. By that logic nothing would be usable. Hell, standing and even trying to run you might get punched.
I have been a practicing martial artist for a long time and have always hated the attitude that one thing is the best, and that nothing should ever change. I think there is value in tradition, but it shouldn't bulwark us into being mindless about our training.
That was one of the best talks I've heard about how and why things change, and the importance of being a well rounded practicioner. Thanks for putting those thoughts out there in such an approachable way.
Definitely agree! The sports version allows us to develop the art through an evolution of the times but don’t forget to learn how to fight as well
Yes and no we still need self defense practice strikes distance of punches in real fight
I agree, man. I think there are a lot of great techniques that have come from BJJ as a sport. I train at an MMA gym, though, and even though we love to learn cool new things, there are things that we know we'll use in BJJ that we would never use in an MMA fight.
Great 👍🏼 discussion & much respect on your perspective - I practiced Kindai Ryu Jiu Jitsu for years & what we were taught (& I’ve read the same) is that at the time in Japan the culture held civilized behavior in high esteem and Jiu Jitsu, which was originally for the Samurai who, for example, dropped their sword and had to fight to the death on the battlefield, was seen as primitive/vile/uncivilized. When Kano transformed Jiu Jitsu into Judo, it became more than just a way of fighting, but a way to improve oneself (the way we think of martial arts today), and that was more accepted by Japanese society at the time. I’ve read some sources that say what was brought to Brazil was Judo, and others that say it was still a form of or at least referred to as Japanese Jiu Jitsu then. I train under a Royce black belt so I’m sure I’m biased - we put the gloves on often though we don’t try to really hurt each other with the strikes, but I agree it’s a great way to keep it real. I think the sport is very cool, but I think the traditional GJJ guys don’t like seeing the art get too far away from street self-defense. Anyway, just my two cents, but I’m only a 2-stripe blue in BJJ, so what do I know...Another great video!! Ossss...
That’s the thing that makes Jiu Jitsu so incredible. It never stops progressing 🙌🏽
The most important thing is training the tecniques against resisting opponents.
I see a lot of bjj gyms showing 1 hour of technique and then roll 5 minutes.
Just because Rickson Gracie or some other "Grandmaster" like figure , e.g. in Aikido the cult or kungfu, made the technique work, does not mean that one of his red belts can show you the technique and you will be able to execute it.
That is the root of the problem.
That was my biggest issue with my old gym, I stopped going a while ago bc all we did was like two techniques in an hour (with little to no resistance) and then roll and the instructors didn't really do a whole lot for you if you didn't do competitions. Paid 150 a month for two classes a week, felt like a rip off
@@PabloPhreshcobar I feel sorry for you bro. I would rather train with my friends in a garage with DVDs than go to such a place.
@@tekal85 Yeah it was definitely more of a business environment than a learning one it seemed like. Love Jiu Jitsu but that shit made it seem like a chore more than anything. They were the first BJJ school in my area so they charge premium still, luckily found a better gym in my area I'll be joining once my state opens up
You are so wise master chewy 🙏🏻 love the shirt 🤙🏼
I really wish my school would utilize the Gracie combatives program. I started training to help me if I was in a street fight not to compete. But I still love bjj.
Great summary but also I think an important point is that people get hurt or ideas change access to mats change ect. And those changes create changes in competition rules which sharpens the techniques that are advantageous for that rule set and kind of limiting yet amplifing a certain style
Thanks Chewie! I'm so tired of "self-defense" gyms that try to poo-poo "sport" BJJ gyms. These are some of the same gyms that don't emphasize competitions because they are focused on "self-defense", but they are sure that their students would do well in a tournament if they competed. That's like Aikido practitioners saying that they can't compete because their techniques are too lethal and they would hurt somebody (I'm not knocking Aikido, I did it for a year and if nothing else, my forward rolls are awesome!).
Solid advice, as usual. I defo agree with the points on maintaining the fighting skills with whatever sport skills you have.
The new intro is nice man!
That was a very good talk coach!
Thanks!
I honestly am inspired by the humbleness you express about training , your a top knoch bad ass ,one day i will continue the same attitude with students .......but my journey will be years long (1 stripe white) hopefully find this comment in 15yrs as a black belt 👍🤙
Thank you for this as well as the vid on boxing (fear of concussion). Your input helped my decision greatly. I suffer from Scitzoeffetive bipolar disorder, I love the jui jitsu training I've been getting for the last couple years, but I've always wanted to push that a bit further by putting things into perspective of reality of an actual confrontation. I've seriously been afraid of that in regards of my already comprised mental health. Thank you for your thoughts sir.
Agreed that arts evolve. Agree even more so that it's useful to practice grappling with strikes. One of the things I find myself missing most about practice- other than the community- is rolling combat jiu-jitsu style.
Cheers from the 10th Planet Freaks!
A lot of great insights. Fantastic channel. Subscribed!
i think the way legit street techniques survive is through competitions like combat bjj, i think bjj has lost its well roundedness, ryan hall even said that today bjj isnt enough to win but if you add in a form of striking it keeps the essence of bjj alive, this is coming from somone who thinks sport bjj and traditional are absolutely different
Hey coach I'm huge fan and I've always appreciated your time and effort on answering my questions wich are all under MMA rules :
-isn't it better to always clasp my hands in a Double leg if not when should I do it?
-what do you think about cross facing the exponent in a sprawl?
-how do I use butterfly hooks from my back?
And again thank you for the help and time you put into answering and please don't be brief we are stuck anyways
I’m a huge fan of cross facing whenever I can. It’s demoralizing, hurts and can open your opponents grip/position. So I say use it all the time. Just be careful about doing it in training against your everyday training partners, but in tournaments and in the street, go crazy with it.
Yes, it is. Take a look at early UFC. That was a small man using BJJ in fights vs larger, younger, more athletic men. The modern training would likely get you in real trouble if you're fighting a big, athletic guy who is winging punches at you.
I have been mentioning it a lot lately, but check out Kudo. Basically its MMA in a GI with a few different restrictions and Judo style rules for how long they can keep going on the ground. Their ne waza looks like enthusiastic athletic 3-stripe white belts in BJJ, but it awesome that they have an art with integrated striking, grappling, and ground work in one system. Also, if we think wrist locks are cheap ... they are allowed to throw headbutts (admittedly only possible because they wear protective headgear).
Chewy - so many things here. But honestly this is the one thing that stands true with everything Gary and Gordon both have said it. There is no newaza if you can’t take them down. Having done both, USA judo and wrestling will give a better foundation in grappling, BJJ is the cherry on top. And if you play gi, you should embark on a journey in judo, not wrestling. And if you wrestle you should do judo, you will get better balance and have many more options in wrestling. On top of that judo Grand Prix is a 150,000 grand and is by far internationally bigger then anything the ibjf or the adcc will present. Judo and wrestling are massive in Europe, mid eastern, and Asia. It’s the USA that didn’t know the submission game and were awe struck. It’s just a hard sport. Harder then BJJ by far. Travis Stevens atest to it on multiple occasions. You should try it. It would help your balance. Scene your fights and you work way harder then you need to take people down. Take a private with Travis or hit up with a seminar he is about your size. Or hit a local club it will make you a better grappler.
If I'm not mistaken it was USA that spread catch wrestling to Japan which infected Japanese grappling arts.
Chris Windham actually judo is 500 years old. It was formally named judo toward the beginning of the 20th century. But catch wrestlers did spread catch wrestling in Japan and they taught them a few submissions they were not aware of. Judo taught them a few throws in and taught them some strangles they were not aware of. It was an exchange near the 20th century.
Double edge sword, good with bad. Thank you Chewie for dropping the knowledge as always.
100% agree. I started kickboxing first with hard sparring before BJJ and I learned to respect the punch. Now when i roll , I parry collar grabs. Being on bottom isn't great for defending strikes so you need to learn your sweeps and how to strike from bad positions.
I'm wondering if they are referring to Rickson's comments of competition BJJ ruining the martial art side.(Actual combat) Too many rules in comp make for sloppier techniques and great techniques/strategies not being practiced since you can't use them in comp.
No I believe it was Reylson who made the mutilated martial art comment.
@@Chewjitsu gotcha, I watched Rickson say similar thing when he was on Rogans with Bravo.
I think every other art has basically, only 1 iteration. Jiu jitsu has many different iterations, bjj; gi and no-gi, ibjjf and non injjf, 10p, lapel guard and other very unique iterations. Street/self defense/gracie jiu jitsu. Mma. That's not even talking about judo, cacc, sambo etc. That's not mutilation, that's dynamics. Jiu jitsu is multi-dimensional.
If I'm not mistaken, a lot of japanese grappling comes from catch wrestling. Mitsuyo Maeda had a lot of Catch experience and it influenced his style.
They all intermingled and traded techniques. But traditional Jujutsu goes way back.
My experience is that when I train in a traditional BJJ school we train with slaps or with with punches with gloves on. That prepares you for self defense. Training for ibjjf or some other type of sport bjj without any consideration for strikes is completely different and doesn't prepare you for self defence. The same goes for takedowns. How can you drill a takedown without learning how to initiate a clinch while somebody is trying to punch you.
That's the domain of MMA. MMA is the actual heir of the kind of training you're describing. That's the sport that emerged from the original Gracie challenges, and the first UFC. Bjj took the path of pure grappling, so talking about strikes makes no sense. It's a different art, and a different sport. And I think it's better this way, there's more variety
@@adrianarroyo937 it took the path of grappling for the most part. There never used to be anything called mma!!
@@hasanc1526 There was never such stuff as Gracie JJ as well. Nowdays it is. The same with MMA.
@@hasanc1526 Ok, so what they called jiujitsu has evolved and now is being called MMA, while the jiujitsu name is now used to describe sport ground grappling. The actual thing still exists, just with a different name. All this debate is just about names. If you want to reclaim the jiujitsu name for MMA, go ahead (though I believe it would be pretty difficult to change by now). I just want to play ground grappling. I don't think we should be worrying by the name, be it Bjj, kosen judo or ground karate
For BJJ not to have a central overseeing body is just a strength. It keeps the sport evolving and developing. Otherwise it could face the destiny of judo that has been sacrificed for sake of TV and the Olympics.
The submission known as a kimura in BJJ is called Gyaku Ude Garami in Judo as well as the Americana is called Ude Garami
Really deep shit. Yeah I think there is the Art part of the Martial "Arts" the expression of one self and stuff... but I guess people only start to appreciate this freedom of expressing oneself after a prolonged time doing the craft..
Was laughing too hard at the shirt that I had to rewind like 30 seconds.
The whole point with everyone is not what your talking about. The whole situation is not against who's the best in competition. And in competition everyone is relatively equal. The issue is people who are learning the sport aspect only don't know to much punch block series and knife defense, etc. without using boxing, kickboxing. Even Rickson Gracie has nothing against competition but as long as you know the whole aspect of it. Trust me I do both. Some sport schools not all don't even have curriculum. This is and always was the argument with sport vs Defense. In competition everyone has an equal chance but not in the street with just JJ.
The pull guard situation with Royce Gracie Vs "the wrestler". Both were good and I'm not taking anything away from the wrestler but after a few Royce Gracie wins people started learning Juijitsu to counter Juijitsu even if they didn't use it. Remember true Juijitsu has no time limit. That's why you can't compare the streets to competition including mma. The competition "Pride" at least was close enough. You could stomp, headbud and no time limit. I respect competition but just because you can beat a higher belt in grappling doesn't mean you can beat them in a full fight.
Great synopsis of the history of our martial art coach 👍
Thank you.
Sport BJJ great cuz it lets people who may not want to “fight” still learn grappling but now the contact Fighting aspect of the art is left out (In some schools) and people who only practice sport bjj may not have their skill set applicable to a no rules fight.
This sounds ridiculous. Just cause it's sport does not mean the moves can't be used during self defense.
Wow cool new intro graphics man.
Judo is not an evolution of jiu jitsu. More like it was the sport that developed alongside the martial art. BJJ descended from judo which is why most traditional martial artists think of BJJ as full of themselves and diluted because traditional JJ was meant to kill or incapacitate your opponent. For instance all throws as taught in traditional JJ should aim to force the uki to land on the crown of their head with maximum force. This approach was more similar to a father teaching his son and nephews how to defend themselves similar to indo-asian arts like Silat and Eskrima. For this reason JJ seemed to be very disjointed and spread but in truth Jiu Jitsu translates to the supple art NOT the gentle art as so commonly misinterpreted. It is supple because of all the different characteristics and approaches that make it something special for anyone who chooses to participate. So in truth if your JJ is gentle and elaborate like BJJ practiced only for sport it is just as valid as my JJ which is taught with weapons and with the single intent to do damage to an opponent. We are all furthering the supple art and practicing the version of it which suits us. This is ofcourse the history passed in my style (Sanuces Ryu) and my interpretation as there is and should never be one single theory, school or style of JJ.
Change is inevitable... If you are getting hung up on tradition or lineage, as if there is some magic to proving its purity or value, then you are marching on a path to irrelevance. Everything evolves in some fashion and either dies out or adapts to new pressures. One of the best ways to deal with change is to embrace it, expose yourself to what is different, evaluate it to see if it works for you, and to understand how you need to change to confront it. You can go ahead and maintain some death grip on what you think is important and valuable, but the rest of the world is just simply going to keep moving on as you scream further and further into the void about how everyone is doing it wrong.
I have yet to find a proficient black belt at the modern game that doesn’t know the Gracie fundamentals. You don’t get to be a berimbolo master without closed guard knowledge, you don’t survive long enough time in the sport without learning the fundamentals.
Right? And absolutely mastering those fundamentals.
phoenixamaranth mastering... not necessarily, I wouldn’t say they all are masters of fundamental, the point I’m trying to make is that any “LEGIT BLACK BELT” can do a back take, knows a few closed guard sweeps, know how to do proper knee on belly, even if they’re not a good as Roger. I was just saying that I don’t see how anyone survives the first two-three years of BJJ without being able to do close guard, or escapes, or knee on belly, or back takes, or mounts. I’ve been training for 12 years, and even thou I don’t regularly play close guard, sometimes I roll with someone that forces me to play it otherwise I’m toast 😂. The fundamentals will always be aplicable.
@@Eldeibi84 I've never met any black belt that wasn't a master of fundamentals, it's pretty much a requirement to legitimately get a black belt. The things that gracie's claim are missing from BJJ aren't missing, simply we dont see them on the sports side at high level. Those people still know all the fundamentals and because of the years of training will pull them out when necessary like you pointed out. I don't believe there's anything that's "sports only", just moves that you'd not choose if you have a choice and some that are very situation specific.
OMFG bro. The shirt is hilarious!😂🤣 Where can I get that???
Epicrollbjj.com
Use code Chewjitsu for 15% off. ;)
Brilliant, thanks chewy
Thanks Chewy!
Loved the history lesson. Genuinely interesting. Oh yeah, and the shirt! Where can I get one?!
Kenneth Donnelly Epic Roll BJJ. Check them out at epicrollbjj.com
John Christian Thanks brother
Hey chew! I have a wierd question that i dont see alot of or hear of. I just moved and im at my (2nd) ever gym! Been training for a few years amd a blue belt. As i got here the gym i was lookimg at has a (purple belt) owner and "professor" should i continue with this academy or bail and go to another? Thanks andrew!!
If your not learning or haven fun I would bail.for me that is so important..If you want to compete at Ibjjf tournaments.I belive that the Ibjjf does not recognizes anyone other then Black belts as teacher so you couldn't compete in Ibjjf tournaments because your academy is not recognized as legit.If yor having a good time and dont want to compete i would say your good where your at.
Beardzilla SDR John Jones a blue belt in bjj and khabib is white belt in bjj lmao . Don’t let the color of the belt scared you . If your professor know what he teaching and your having fun I guess you should stay . But on the other hand I know what you mean because their are a lot of franchises that well do anything to expand by making some peopl become professor
IBJJF should give more points to take downs and take points out for stalling! Give some points for submissions nearly completed would be nice ( im not talking about advantage points, they only count to untie a match in case of the athletes have the same score)
Do u think that when your grappling in a tournament you should go the slow and steady pace the way Gracie jujitsu teaches? I have a judo background and I question if that's the best way when I go to my jujitsu classes, seems new school bjj guys are getting more explosive like judokas and I wonder if it's because they are evolving into our way because it's more effective (not sure if it Is or isnt thats why im here)or is it just everyone is different. I'm just looking at it as the same as the evolution of judo where we went the same flow as the gracies back in the old days when they were taught judo, but no one fights judo like that anymore and I dont think if slow and smooth approach was better every Olympian would be do it the new way. I know there Is time limits but judokas did it standing aswell and changed to more explosive fighting style
Hi, I have a small background in wrestling and I understand the faster pace you speak of. I'm new to jiu jitsu, but I do think it is better to go slow most of the time in a tournament setting. I think if you can control the pace in a tournament situation (for BJJ), your technique will improve because you see and understand how techniques work better. That can directly transfer into a street where its faster paced.
@@MonkeyCage1990 I get the slow down to learn, its if once you become more advanced should the tempo be increased to apply more pressure like in judo
When it comes to competitions it's going to be intense. It's about you asserting your will over another person. Unless the match is unlimited time (which most aren't) slow and steady is not the best way to go. You want to go out focus and assertive.
Also, go watch old Gracie matches and fights. They weren't going with the flow.
Thank you chewy, my jujitsu coach always tells everyone that a match should be effortless and you shouldnt exert yourself, but I'm explosive and very strong and in judo I was always told that they were my assets in when I fight and when I trained in 2 different jujitsu clubs they were both Gracie clubs and told me the opposite and to be effortless. Wasnt sure which was right path to take but not to play into my strengths felt unnatural especially where the guys I was rolling with where trying way harder then I was strength wise and often get by my defenses because I was trying to listen to my coaches when I new a lot of the times I could have moved like I do In judo with more success
Side point here (from my own perspective). Honestly, I think jiujitsu should just abandon the idea of takedowns. I think that if you want to honestly practice takedowns, then you should pick up judo or wrestling. It seems kind of silly to me that we have takedowns in jiujitsu when its so incredibly easy to pull guard. Sure you have to have a "grip" in ibjjf, but its really not that hard to get a grip on a sleeve and just sitdown. At that point there's nothing that someone with good takedowns can do. The only time takedowns come into play is when BOTH grapplers decide to embrace in the takedowns. And even when both of them do, the ref is likely to hit them with double stalling simply because if both grapplers decline to pull guard, then they're both confident in their takedowns. If they're both confident in their takedowns, then they're both going to be good at it. If they're both good at it, its going to be possibly two minutes before a takedown happens. Just watch some college wrestling. Many many matches don't see a takdown until going onto the third minute in the first period--that's the whole point of having a three minute first period.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a wrestler. I love takedowns a lot. I actually prefer it to ground grappling in jiujitsu, but I really feel like this takedown stuff doesn't have enough of an impact and it just wastes time in the matches. The problem is that if you change the rules to make it more of an impact, then it simply undermines the beautiful grappling scenarios that happen in bjj on the ground. BJJ's strength is grappling after a takedown. I think it would do well to just accept that.
If we want to have a more "mixed" ruleset where takedowns are emphasized as well ass submission on the ground, then that's fine, but I think that should be something different from what jiujitsu has become.
Maybe my opinion is stupid. I'm willing to accept that.
Martial arts have evolved throughout the years, those that hold on to tradition and block out new ideas and will eventually be left behind. Look at most Kung Fu nowadays, believe it or not but people used to fight like that, those that evolved and broke traditional bounds became the next great artist of their time
Mutated but not mutilated. But evolution is an interesting word because it implies not a hierarchy of improvement but a selection for fitness and we have to ask what is jiu-jitsu being selected for? Like Judo, and MMA, the forces acting on the evolution of the sport are the rulesets, which are influenced by entertainment value. The degree of crowd-pleasing and practitioner entertainment that bring money into the competitions and get a sport into the Olympics and on worldwide screens, as well as the amount of fun and personal development that bring in students to schools. There is relatively little selecting it for combat applicability. It's a relatively peaceful world with less need for self-defense (especially hand to hand self-defense) and martial styles like Jiu-jitsu are not being selected for their fight functionality. The development into a sport with less combat application has been the evolutionary path of all martial arts: wrestling, boxing, karate, judo, bjj, mma. And there's nothing wrong with sport (in fact, Kano's greatest gift was Randori, the ability in Judo to practice techniques on fully resistant opponents which created a more functional martial style and led to GJJ and now bjj today) as long as we keep in mind that sport rules and fighting are different. But the old styles remain like aikijiujutsu and Gracie Jiujitsu with the practitioners interested in self-defense and something always comes along to fill the space of the popular self-defense arts as the older ones mutate into sports. Now that we have world-wide merging of styles it will be interesting to see what those self-defense styles look like going forwards. No longer will it be a question of whether kicks are better than grappling, but rather how do we do jiu-jitsu self-defense and mma with fully resisting opponents in more real-world scenarios and still keep it safe and uninfluenced by the sport rules and the desire to predominantly fight people who are trained in the same manner. Those that don't pressure test in randori will need to go away. I'm envisioning the planet wide self-defense style of the future here that takes the best from all styles and I think jiu-jitsu is a major component if we do like Chewie says and keep the fighting mentality alive.
In 1885 the Tokyo police service was first formed and they were having a debate: do we teach our new police officers Judo or Jiu-Jitsu? To decided they set up 15 matches between Judokas and Jiu-Jitsu practitioners. Judokas won 12 of the 15 matches. The explanation commonly given for the effectiveness of Judo vs Jiu-Jitsu is that Judo involves applying their techniques as hard as possible. Their techniques aren't all designed to maim or kill, which is why it can be a sport with competitions, but it also enables Judokas to train going full-force. In comparison Jiu-Jitsu schools in Japan at the time tended to only use techniques who maim or kill so they could never be applied full-force (unless you were running around killing people). So the Judokas were used to applying their techniques at full-force against an unwilling and resisting opponent, and the Jiu-Jitsu fighters weren't. There is also the important side-note that Kano and most of his senior Judokas also trained Jiu-Jitsu before Kano invented Judo, so they knew both types of martial arts as well, which would have given them a huge advantage.
The book “the toughest man who ever lived” is a fun and informative read on Kano and Conte Koma (aka Misuyo Maeda).
Lots of fun passages of his famed bouts and his wild nomadic life.
Lastly, bjj with strikes is a very useful reality check. Everyone should learn to deal with being hit
Tanya thanks for the recommendation. I’ll check it out.
It's just like you said Chewy...things evolve to fit the world today. Jet Li said the same of Chinese martial arts: as the need to be able to kill people lessened, martial arts became more of a dance rather than self-defense/ass-beating.
Recently I started drilling live striking and every time I get hit my send pop out. I’m scared to get hit. Any tips on what to do to get over that???
As a Judo practitioner I'm used to hearing how BJJ is a "bastardized" version of Judo, so I find it very ironic that the Gracie's refer to "sport" BJJ as mutilated. I personally appreciate BJJ for it's focus on newaza, so for the record no negative views personally from me. I have trained Krav, and Judo and intend to join a BJJ school once this Covid thing has passed. I feel like there's room for all these variations depending on what the individual student is looking for. We're clearly not all looking for the same skill sets at the same time.
Agreed. Appreciate your input brother.
ude garami is the japanese name for what BJJ calls kimura. It translates to bent arm lock.
if you look at some old videos of helio gracie he uses wrist locks from japanese jiu jitsu
I agree with Chewy that BJJ has evolved like many other martial arts. Boxing and Judo are great examples. But when people complain about BJJ...it's very narrow minded.
I didn't like sport jiujitsu at first still not a fan of lapel guards and 50/50 but overall it's cool
I did judo growing up, the history they taught us was that judo was created as a defense against jiu-jitsu because thugs and muggers were using jiu-jitsu it to attack people, so they wanted a martial art that the common people could use to defend against jiu-jitsu and attackers, it's very much self defense, it works much better if someone is going towards you and you use their momentum against them
Nice new intro.
Glad you like it.
It's as much of a mutilated art as modern judo. As in, it's less martial and more of a sport.
You can learn BJJ or Judo and be an amazing fighter. You just gotta UNDERSTAND what works or not as unarmed combat for self defense.
About brazilian origins: some brazilians learned basic Jiu Jitsu from IJN soldiers during joint exercises (that also was japanese first contact with Capoeira, a lot of brazilian sailors trained it) basically the same years Maeda first arrived in Brazil - the 2 countries had cordial relationship. And the Fadda family learned from Luiz França, a brazilian who was also a direct student of Mitsuyo Maeda. The Fadda versus Gracie challenges were pretty common and were responsible for a lot of spotlight for the art.
What does not grow dies.change is a part of growth.if we dont grow we become stagnant.im not from bjj I'm from karate but we have the same issue.sport vs traditional
It's not mutilated, it's constantly evolving, mutating, adapting, between practitioners and styles.
On another topic, I honestly don't understand why people would rather be injured than tap and admit defeat. I just checked out that article and watched that video. I see this attitude currently, and I always cringe when I watch videos of that happening or see it myself. It's always the men. I remember watching one, where the guy has a massive meltdown on the mat, punching the mat in frustration and rage and he couldn't even stand on that foot of his when everything was over.
Is an injury considered as protecting your honor or something? I really don't understand. I prefer self preservation, but I know I do still get injured sometimes, bruises, broken toes, scratches from finger nails, but they aren't due to my stubbornness.
I kind of get what he means, rolling isn’t fighting. The Gracies are all about real fighting, self defense. There are “rolling” nerds that would get stomped in a real fight. Look at MMA, none of the more recent BJJ champions have had success. Why? The sport bjj they do doesn’t translate when there are strikes and wrestling. No judo guys either...
And then there is Garry Tonon.
@@temoherbertlopez6019 and ryan hall, and Demian Maia, oh and also Rodolfo Viera, and of course Gilbert Burns.
Not to mention Jacare Souza....
It seems sport JJ does translate. But obviously not everything. Sport JJ is invented to beat BJJ.
The shoulder rolling and ducking under punches in boxing doesn't work in M.M.A. either, because you'll get kicked in the face. Does that mean boxing doesn't work.... of course not. Sport specific techniques are useful to that sport, but have to be adapted to M.M.A.
@@reddwarf935 that was obvious, i just reduced the list to Tonon due to his connection with the recent sport BJJ scene.
@@temoherbertlopez6019 was meant as a bolster to your point not as a counter.
Sorry if it came across that way
@@reddwarf935 Don't worry, i was only giving the reason of why i mentioned Tonon.
Bjj is well on its way to becoming like karate and taekwondo it's a slippery slope
I don't think that's true at all. The guys today are much better and more well rounded than they used to be. Many have learned so much not just from classes but from online instructionals and watching these champs of the sport go at it that they are way better than back 90's and 00's. Remember that still translates to taking out inexperienced threats in the street since they don't know how to defend most of it. This notion that sports are dulling it down don't seem to hold merit as most competitors I know are stronger, faster, and more clear headed in high stress situations thanks to competition. The sports side compliments the self defense side in ways not being considered.
@@phoenixamaranth "clear headedness in stress" that's amongst the most important aspects of martial arts that involve lots of sparring
I am not expert but I have read from multiple sources that the Japanese actually forbade teaching Judo to people who were not Japanese. So when Maeda went around the world fighting he taught without Kano knowing so that he could earn an income. Again, I am not an expert but that is what I have read from multiple sources.
Not the case actually, at least to my knowledge. Kano himself travelled the world giving demonstrations and teaching judo to foreigners (see, for example, his writings in Mind Over Muscle), and sent his students abroad to spread the art.
What he did prohibit, however, was his students engaging in prize fighting, which is the reason many cite for Maeda marketing himself as a "Jiu-jitsu" fighter father than a judo one.
not that Kano wanted to make a sport but more so he wanted to train at 100% effort without hurting his training partner.
He also was a smaller guy so he threw out the techniques that required strength
sound familiar?
How can the evolution of anything be a bad thing?
Love the vids, thanks for keeping us somewhat sane throughout this quarantine
Because evolution is non-directive, by definition it is not always adaptive. There are situations in which something evolves to be worse or more homogenized like no-gi bjj has over the years
I know it's not the main point of the video. But I always get a lot of flack from people at my gym for not wanting to do striking, kickboxing, pure wrestling, etc..
While I do agree if you want to train for self defence reasons, of want to be able to fight you need to learn these things.
But I really have no interest whatsoever. I just train BJJ because I like overcoming pressure and the strategy side of it. I do not want to be punched or kicked in the slightest.
My son and I just had a conversation about knee on belly. He thought I was saying neon belly 😆 I have a southern accent so some of my words sound funny to him.
Sport BJJ is not any more mutilated than Collegiate Wrestling is "mutilated wrestling". That style and rule-set for wrestling in HS and College in the US has a much more limited rule-set than catch or even freestyle Olympic wrestling.
Yet consistently, experienced, accomplished wrestlers from this discipline take like fish to water when they start BJJ and are quite competitive as white belts, so much that there are "gentlemen's agreements" to have them start as blue belts in competition, just like with experienced Judo competitors.
I state this to demonstrate that however "watered down" or "mutilated" it may be, excellence in just about any grappling competition requires development of principles, skills, techniques, mindset and conditioning that are legit foundations and preparation for fight grappling.
The kimura is called Ude Garami.
You BJJ practitioners have it easy. If you want a mutilated martial art thanks to government oppression, box office exploitation, and broken lineages, look no figure than kung fu. First, in the 1700's, the Qing government burned down the Shaolin temples, killing most of the original Shaolin monks and leaving derivative styles that had to go into hiding (e.g. Hung Gar, Choy Li Fut). Sanda/Sanshou is the Communist government's interpretation of traditional kung fu, not the original stuff. Second, in the 1950's, the Communist government created Wushu (martial-inspired performance art) to replace legitimate kung fu (i.e. kung fu with working biomechanics) as the official national martial art. Third, in the 1970's, there were kung fu flicks that badly distorted how kung fu is actually trained and used. When I see kung fu videos uploaded to the internet, the vast majority of it is *terrible* (to be very polite). Zero biomechanics, so much emphasis on speed and flash (like Wushu) rather than power generation and body structure/stability. Kung fu gets watered down with every generation rather than evolving through personal interpretation like BJJ.
All that is so true!!!! The Chinese government really did ruin Kung Fu from the spectacular and extensive martial art that it used to be. Most martial artists don't even know that Kung Fu also has ground fighting. All of the traditional martial arts have been watered down so much as they have been passed down over and over again. How many have seen the 14 year old Karate black belts that know almost nothing about fighting. It's a real shame!
How about instead of hanging on to the dead patterns of kung fu you put on some gloves and learn how to fight for real? The speed at which mixed combat systems are evolving now is unprecedented and makes a mockery of what came before.
@@stuartperry-hughes5969 How about, in addition to what I practice at my kung fu school, I take up Police Judo to expand on the techniques not emphasized in my kung fu? What, real police training by current police trainers not "real" enough for you? When was the last time you challenged yourself by forcing yourself into a total different martial art and training environment to address deficits in your base style (which every martial art has)?
@@stuartperry-hughes5969 Moreover, if you think that kata or forms are just "dead patterns" with no use, then you're very ignorant. Have you actually learned and practiced forms? *If not, maybe you should do so and have so authentic experience before commenting.* Perfect example is Jesse Enkamp (traditional karateka) teaching a "dead pattern" to Icy Mike (MMA/former cop). In the first move, you can see Icy Mike does not have any structured biomechanics to what he does. I put in a comment that highlights the absence of body structure and power generation in Mike's technique in contrast to what Enkamp does - Enkamp tagged the comment so apparently he agrees with me. Icy Mike was also humbled by the experience.
ua-cam.com/video/6YpQp_gczCE/v-deo.html
"Dead pattern" forms are structured shadow boxing to help people learn, memorize, and understand the biomechanics of techniques. You practice each technique individually so you understand that biomechanic and then you practice the transition between techniques so you understand the inter-related biomechanics. Then you practice it with a partner or training device (e.g. heavy bag, double-ended bag, maki-wara, wooden dummy - all of which I do). Eventually, you transition from techniques to biomechanics.
Historically, forms were necessary in cultures that had low literacy/oral traditions and/or needed to hide their techniques from oppression (e.g. kung fu, capoeira). Even though those imperatives no longer exist, traditional forms have great utility in how they allow the continuation of culture, institutionalize core/signature techniques, and allow you to practice on your own (which is much easier for a striking art than a grappling art).
Vancity Band Police judo is judo 😂
I think Gracie Jiu jitsu is the art to beat other arts, sport Jiu jitsu is the art to beat each other. It’s how we stay sharp we evolve.
How do I ask you questions for a video could do with some advice but not sure how to message on here or do I just put it in the comments ?
Honestly my only fear is that our art goes the same way as karate. I would hate to live in a world where a BJJ black belt meant nothing. As it is right now, if I meet someone who is a black belt in BJJ I can pretty safely assume they put in the time, they know their shit, and should be respected. But the same cannot be said about A LOT karate black belts.
But far as the styles of the art go, I love watching it grow and morph. I love sport BJJ but I like the "real" shit too. I think at the end of the day as long as we all remember that the art is supposed to be able to be used to end an IRL fight everything will be OK.
The problem between GJJ and BJJ that many adepts of GJJ don't know really what's in IBJJF program. GJJ says - IBJJF doesn't teach self-defense, which is absolutely not true. Anyone can have a look at Gracie Barra (biggest BJJ clubs network with more than 800 academies) Fundamental curriculum. Each week has self-defense part to work on. Anyone can just Google that - it is open information. Needless to say, that owner of Gracie Barra is Carlos Gracie Jr. and he is the President of IBJJF. Alliance team of Fabio is the same. They have robust self-defense program in place. I have no idea why people from GJJ exaggerating with self-defense part, positioning that they are only who have proper self-defense program. I would say - GCC is nowdays most conservative branch resisting to wide developments happening around. No problem with such conservatism, and good that someone wants to keep art as developed by Rikson/Royce Gracie, but there is no point to blame other branches who is going further and beyond and wants to develop art. Very good example is Renzo Gracie academy and John Danaher particularly.
the kimura and americana have the same name in judo and ty're called ude garami
Short answer no its awesome
How can I get used to getting hit when I'm training alone during quarantine? Any tips or drills?
Annoy your mam and you'll be sorted
@@richarddukard8989 I used to do this one in the gym, but I'm training from home now and I don't have any walls!
Are you guys joking? 🧐
@@brandonovich6063 no, this is 100% seriousness
That is one Gracie’s opinion. The guys I train with and learn from are quite open minded. Just find a good academy that suits you where your instructors care about you and train you properly and it’s all good. Get on the mat Jimmy! 😃
Correct, it wasn't the whole family unanimously saying that.
Dig the new intro graphic
YES THANK YOU!
Muay Thai and jiu jitsu is a nice blend
the technique should always evolve but the problem is with athletes getting Juiced up to win tournaments
This is not necessarily a BJJ only issue.
High quality vid
It's not a ""mutilated""" martial art. It's an evolving martial art.!!
Mutilated, or MUTATED, am I RIGHT!?!?!?also if you know martial arts history that's a crazy weird question to ask.( In my opinion 😅)
He was just curious to see chewys opinion
Haha! I wish I would have thought of that.
No the evolution in jiu-jitsu it's not a bad thing but it's going in the wrong direction. .. competition focus only serves a very small part of students the majority does not compete. .. the majority needs jiu-jitsu with street focus self-defense oriented. . The sport part is the only part that evolved in jiu-jitsu to serve the few.
That's my opinion ..
Osu
Ok so I see your argument, I am not a BJJ practitioner (I'm planning on starting once things cool off with covid) but I kind of disagree with the overall message, yes self defense is important and I feel like it is one of the first things taught,
I feel like the best representation for a street fight would be MMA, simply due to the lack of rules and the wife variety of things and opponent would try and do (slamming, punching, kicking, kneeing, elbowing, choking)
So while I agree, from my limited knowledge, that BJJ should have some focus on self defense, I feel like the ultimate self defense training would be to go to an MMA gym, for many reasons, like knowing how to take a punch, and having that uncertainty of what you opponent is going to do next.
Just my 2¢
@@cnppreactorno.4965 yes indeed but please remember that the jiu-jitsu that all the greats learned were street fight based ... today called self-defense but the truth was that they learned how to fight in Gracie Jiu-jitsu strikes and kicks were included and elbows also in oder to use the jiu-jitsu in the street fights .
Today most of the techniques develop they don't have street fighting application. .. the Gracie Jiu-jitsu have strikes, self-defense with weaponry, and sport jiu-jitsu , the majority of the Academies focus mostly in sport jiu-jitsu and that's 2 different animals ... doing jiu-jitsu with strikes and sport jiu-jitsu like today are different and guess what version of Bjj is best for defending your self? ?? Even mma it's not to deal with street problems Focus .. ok one learn to fight but and when weponds like knifes came in to play ?? And other likely scenarios that mma your actual jiu-jitsu doesn't cover ???
So the idea and first focus of Helio Gracie was indeed the real fight against others ways of fighting and not only jiu-jitsu vs jiu-jitsu. ..
Just saying street fighting it's a different animal then just doing no strikes grappling and no weponds training like it is today ...
I love jiu-jitsu and I train Gracie Jiu-jitsu and most of us don't compete but we all hit the streets .... Jiu-jitsu should cover all aspects of life like master Helio wanted ... and not this sport vision that limit the jiu-jitsu. ..
Tray to do grappling with strikes and then try to do it with knifes and baseball bats and then mix it all up and quickly you and everyone will understand what I'm talking about. ..