All those EVs made in China in factories powered by coal fired power stations and then loaded onto car carriers which probably burn 100/150 tonnes of fuel oil per day to bring them to the UK and Europe. How clean is that?.
As a MARINE CHIEF ENGINER you are correct "100 / 150 tons of "HEAVY BUNKER FUEL" a day. ALSO....MANY OF THESE SHIPS ARE GOING BACK NEARLY EMPTY . STILL BURNING SAME AMOUNT OF FUEL !!!. The Chinese do not care just keep the masses working / producing what there is no market for . I have seen some of the factories ...unbeliveable in size.
What about Drax cutting trees down in Canada making them into pellets shipping them to UK moving them to power station all done with petrol and diesel engines just to produce so called clean electricity for your car
Yep, they just work. They’re quiet, not particularly interesting, they do the job, don’t break down very often. They actually are the natural evolution of personal transport.
The fact that a booklet has been produced to attempt to dispel myths is a sign that all is not well with the EV world. Why is something that is supposed to be rooted in fact prone to such debate and vitriol? Why can nobody agree on the payback period? However, it's a tiresome needless debate because these things are happening to us no matter what due to govt and supra-govt motives that have nothing to do with clean air and green stuff.
The industry may be hanging on by a thread for the new rollout of sodium battery technologies. This is not all going to go away, and as such l have decided to plan accordingly.
To me the eventual issue will be how long an electric car will last , because if it hast to be replaced sooner than an equivalent ice car then that must increase its carbon footprint . And as yet we don’t really know how long they are capable of lasting , irrespective of mileage . We know for a fact that most ice cars with good maintenance can last in excess of 20 years , and that’s with high mileages . Are we in all honesty likely to see this with an electric vehicle , and we most definitely have the problem of recycling batteries which will only increase in number till a viable method of recycling is developed . There will be millions of them lying around, just leaching into the ground in some out of the way place , or worse catching fire and polluting the environment. The future doesn’t seem very bright to me , and it will take more than Quintin to convince me otherwise . 😂
Because people are idiots and beleive the lies about battery life, battery fires, hydrogen being the future etc etc. No one "agrees" on the payback period because it varies from car to car, a lot.
Hes not including the carbon footprint of the tyres on the road or their carbon footprint of the battery being mined and created and then disposed of . 😞 quinten is a sell out
@@Tom-dt4ic Try this, then...co2 is 420 part per million of the atmosphere. If it drops to 180ppm, all plant life dies and so do we. It's 420, it has been 6000 and the planet's still thriving. Fifty years of failed predictions of doom and the United Nations expects us to continue to believe the Great Lie. Here endeth the lesson for tonight.
I looked at changing from a Jaguaur Xf to a tesla . The fully comp Jag costs £300 a year, whereas the tesla costs £1030 . £730 is one heck of a difference
They did i was told by an EVangelist that Volvo got the figures wrong. A company who manufactures the EV got it wrong apparently. Yes of course they did.
@@xperyskop2475 Well thats my point, you doin bugger all miles. I have had several old cheap cars that have done 250k miles, even if it takes an engine change with a used lump out of a low mileage wreck that doesnt cost like a new battery set up. 65k miles, cheeses. I got a honds 350 twin that has 110k on it.
Can't help but see all the poor being absolutely pushed out the picture. All these people pushing the benefits of an EV, are all seemingly well off. How would a carer for example find an EV that would work for them for less than say 5k let alone charge them. Most i have met are driving cars worth 1-2k tops.
@@69spook Agreed. But funnily, we need more and more and more carers. So if none of them can travel I suppose it'll end up like that film Soylent Green. Or Logan's Run.
@jgtemperton you're busy pumping in the replies. Have you got answers to the questions that people raise? Start with addressing the inability to charge at home, the high price of charging away from home, the unreliability of the network etc. Do so without sounding like you have clenched fists.
Not far from where i live in rural Norfolk 15 miles from Norwich is a power station generating electricity by burning straw bales.. they claim to be net zero BUT all the lorries are comingfrom places like preston, mersea island,corby,bedford. How is that net zero???
The excuse is that it's "renewable". Like Drax power station being powered (less efficiently than with coal) by wood, transported from the western side of Canada. The carbon footprint actually works out higher. But that's irrelevant because CO2 is not what's making the climate change; it's natural processes.
@@befunged my father is a farmer who relies on c02 to grow crops and foods in green houses we do my own research and its not the co2 thats driving climate change its a natural cycle proved by many climate experts and the tilt of the polar north of earth is also changing so we are spending longer in sun radiation , we are relying on co2 generators to fill greenhouses to grow plants at the moment and its a basic science that plants rely on co2 for food ... i learnt that back in 1975.... co2 is naturally produced by seas and also by plants as well and there is a lot of it that forms naturally in soil... if we record low co2 of 3% or less in soil content we cant plant it according to the powers that be as we have to let the land 'rest'
@@vandamonium1731so you're a self qualified UA-cam expert. Have you also attended the university of Facebook and added the royal society of twitter to your CV?
I own a Mini Cooper Electric, with a green rectangle on its number plate and I've personally risked my life TWICE to successfully save 2 peoples lives, so "I'M CHUFFED TO BITS" that you would clearly go well out of your way, to avoid me, "ESPECIALLY, if YOU found yourself in a LIFE or DEATH situation" so good luck with that one hey as yer would need, a "one in a million dude" to risk his or her life, to save yer life and stuff like that "never? happens??" does it.
In their current incarnation these are essentially disposable, expensive phones on wheels. Find a PC manufacturer that has enabled the use of electronics that can take the required evolution of security patches (from a hardware perspective). After so many years they will be insecure with no ability to upgrade to the latest patches. You will not see 20 or 30 year old EV’s. So no, not a benefit to the claimed climate problems.
@BarrieCrampton Maybe see if you can put a background color behind the text so it doesn't get lost in the picture. Don't mean to pile on you, was just something I noticed. That was the first video of yours I've seen. 😃
That book seems 15 years out of date already. No one is saying battteries don't last. If your car doesn't catch fire, then yes, it will get to high mileage. But you'll be charging it more, as its overall capacity lessens. I wonder if the RAC book also mentions how many of their breakdown trucks with generators go out to charge EVs. Or how many they pick up and tow? Doubt it.
AA figures are 2% of EV call outs are for out of charge. That's reduced from 8% in 2016. Source is fleet news. I don't know about RAC figures but mainly because I couldn't be bothered to look. Battery capacity degradation is quite slow. Mine had lost 3% in 40000miles. I can't say I've noticed any difference.
@esm7708 I lost much more in my Nissan leaf. But its ancient technology compared to new cars . I have seen MG with 120K miles and 92% battery health. 1 MILION miles before battery dies. Crazy
These people don’t know. They make it up as they go along. It’s like they pick a low figure out of the air. Mark my words in years to come it will come out how bad these EV’s are and they’ll wants us all back in petrol. It’s all about ££££
No. It’s all about control. Cars are freedom. Freedom to work more than a bicycle ride from home. Freedom to go on holiday. To attend hospital appointments without a Taxi or bus. Freedom to drive to the other end of the country, urgently, to see a friend or family member, without having to wait for the car to charge sufficiently. When EVs are a majority transport, they’ll prohibit the use of them due to the fragilities and risk of fire. Unless you can afford to spend £50k every year or three on a new one.
It takes up to 55kWh of energy to produce 1kWh of lithium Battery storage. A useable battery is somewhere between 60 and 100kWh. If the battery is manufactured in China at 582g of Co2 the manufacturing Co2 emissions of the Battery could be as much as 55x 100x582 = 3201 kg of Co2 before it’s turned a wheel . This is 32,000 km if you add in the electricity uk at 168g of Co2 168/4.5 at 37g of co2 per km an EV would have to do an additional 11,000 km to break even. If you drive in any country with higher Co2 emissions the pay back is much longer on the German grid 380g of Co2 per kWh the EV could never repay its carbon manufacturing debt.
@@xperyskop2475 I compared the manufacturing Co2 emissions of 2 vehicles with previously refined materials. But if you want to count the energy costs of refining the components of a Battery then you can add at least another 200kWh per kWh of batterry storage. So you can have 5,000 gallons (150,000 miles) of fuel for a long range batterry manufacturing , it kind of makes the pay back even longer. But please pop your calculations down and share your thoughts about how many miles you need to do. I’ve been quite kind uk emmision are 168g of Co2 this is kind because it’s 209g of Co2 at night and does not include transmission, charging and storage losses which is between 15 and 35%.
@@tobycolin6271 Don't forget that the elements in batteries are recyclable. So no matter how bad the calculations come out, and yours are conveniently leaving numbers out and exaggerating others in favor of ICE cars, no matter how bad, the next time these recycled elements are sourced for a battery, their carbon footprint will be quite a bit less.
Where do I add the carbon footprint of transporting all that oil? Ships, pumps, storage, etc. And where do I include the cost to society of increased lung cancer and emphysema, not to mention childhood asthma, etc. Oh, and let's not forget the trillions and trillions of dollars that global warming will cost society. And already is. Hint, hint, Florida. Did you conveniently neglect to factor these numbers into your deceptively meticulous calculations?
Just looked through the free booklet and as an EV driver (now own my second one) it is full of misleading info. Example, they are dead cheap to charge from home (true), charging from public charges is very expensive (also true, anywhere up to 85p/kWh, so very expensive), then goes on to say if you don't have off road charging its possible to to use public chargers! Presumably whilst also going bankrupt. EVs are great for the group of users that fit the EV use case and the other 85% (ish) of the UK's drivers would be better off with an ICE vehicle.
@@esm7708 Its a guess :^) 50% have access to driveways (I'll assume you are correct) but are all these single occupancy residencies, think how many houses with drives have 2 or more cars in them - my neighbour has 5 in his when his children are back from Uni? Does everyone living at these premises have a job or lifestyle that would make an EV a realistic choice. Of the residents of the 50% of dwellings that have a driveway and work, how many would need an EV with a longer range, could they afford it? How many of those living in this 50% are retired and are reliant on the state pension for their income, and so on and so forth. I would expect the real number for which an EV would be the wrong choice or they couldn't afford one would be somewhere between 75 and 85%. But its all just an estimated guess like most 'facts' surrounding EVs.
@jgtemperton I don't find the availability of charging much of a problem, with a bit of thought. It is the prices that put people off, 65-85p/kWh is just a rip off, when compared to the standard domestic tariff (and business bulk users pay a lot less).
@jim373 I'm struggling to understand why a car with more than 200 miles range isn't a realistic choice for most people. Especially when the average miles per year is about 8000. I do over 20000 miles and it's entirely realistic. They also don't need to be charged every night. In the same way you don't fill your car with petrol on the way back from work everyday. I feel like you're inventing scenarios and problems that don't exist to come to a nonsense figure.
I've got a 2019 VW Golf petrol which has covered 125,000 miles. Only 20 of the EVs on Autotrader have covered this mileage. EVs have not yet proved that they last the distance.
Hi Barry, Not sure if you have seen this report from Volvo on their own cars. It's a bit old so maybe there have been some improvements in manufacture of EV's. But like you point out nobody, or very few people, are driving them to the break even point where they become cleaner than an ICE vehicle. Even if somebody does buy it second hand and takes the EV up to the break even mileage, the person who renewed their EV after three years is starting a new co2 deficit. We live in a consumer society of limited warranties and keeping up with the Joneses. Ev cars are renewed before people think the battery will crap out as they know their car is worthless then. If the green lobby want to do something about pollution they should make people drive their car till it is ten years old or more, no selling nearly new cars. Not good for you or the motor trade but so much is discarded these days for cosmetic reasons. I worked in Africa and loved seeing so many really old mercedes, so battered but still kept running because of the quality and ease of maintenance. Something EV's don't have. EV's are not greener just another way to sell you something new at a higher price. It's like headphones, phones, laptops, tablets, we never used to pay £400 for a set of headphones, or over a thousand for a phone. Things are balancing out now with prices dropping on second hand EV's. Glad to see you are calling out this madness. Keep up the good work. Search Google "volvo ev vs ice report".
@@BarrieCrampton yes we know they currently depreciate badly. So the options are to lease through salary sacrifice (paying through the nose on gross deductions to protect the lease company), buy one and keep it for a long time, buy a second hand one or suck it up like owners of Alfas do. Personally I'm toying with buying a second hand Ioniq 6. They're a bargain.
VW just announced its closing 3 manufacturing facilities in Germany with the loss of tens of thousands of jobs and relocating elsewhere, citing high energy costs and the Chinese EV advantage. Europeans are buying made in China EV’s despite their awful reputation.
That's right. No tyres have been changed since EVs came onto the road, the whole car has to get scrapped ! Then the driver gets shot by the RAC man in case he tells anyone. It's a scandal !!!!
Barrie, what do you make of Volkswagen’s announcement that they now propose to shut 3 car plants in Germany, not the previously announced 2? In addition, the remaining workforce will have to take a 10% wage reduction plus a cessation of bonus payments and other benefits.
I wish I'd never bought my diesel but that was over 10 years ago. Didn't even know it had a DPF when I bought it. It's Euro 5 so I can't even drive into Bristol now.
There was a guy on TalkTv radio who was from TFL and he said that EVs must pay for the pollution they cause because the large EV SUVs generate as much pollution as an ICE suv due to tyre particulates from the incredible weight and acceleration.
@dominicgoodwin1147 It's on UA-cam, he looks at birth to death ,very interesting and very damning of the way we look at EV's as zero emission which we all know is nonsense.." The contradictions of battery operated vehicles " look it up , about 9:30 in shows some great graphs and facts. It's early days but at the rate EV's are being written off due to minor damage or failed batteries Clarkson alarmingly is right - they are thrown away white goods .
@ yes, I have seen that one too, actually, but it’s been debunked in that he ignores the emissions of the entire supply chain of fossil fuels. Also the uk grid is really much greener than that already. The global average is irrelevant. Every ev driven off renewable energy is a net benefit.
@@dominicgoodwin1147 Debunked by who? Not anyone who knows the industry ... he also ignores many aspects of EV production like the cost of the water table dropping 25cm in parts of South America, Define renewable energy ? Another term banded around by people who dont know what they are talking about - if you mention wind turbines than I know you are very misinformed indeed. Net zero is a political agenda like most things , no real science behind it other than reports paid for by vested parties.
EVs are green...and other colour options too haha But seriously, if something costs more doesn't it mean more energy, material and effort has been used to make it? hence why EVs cost a fortune? In ICE cars, the larger they are the less environmental they are? so why are all EVs virtually large SUVs or saloons? The fact you have a break even mileage sets a target mileage to achieve which goes against the whole point of driving less in the first place.
Even though I could easily afford £4-500 per month to drive around in a new car, I have always chosen not to. I refuse to spend more than a few thousand on a deprecating asset, irrespective of type. When choosing a vehicle I lean heavily on long-term reliability. The problem with EVs for the time being is it's all completely unproven technology. I will not be buying an EV until the dust settles and the picture is clear as to which cars are going to cost owners a fortune as they get older. End of.
Barrie, i'd be interested to see a video on leasing companies. In my mind the only way i see people buying EV's is leasing them because it negates the risk. No one wants a used EV and it's a risk buying one new outright. Leasing companies must be feeling the hit from this surely on the used car market?
They really do just grab random facts don't they. Their way of working out the carbon footprint of an EV probably doesn't take into account of the tyres they go through, or the brake pads, discs, callipers. I'd be interested to know the footprint when a car is leased for 2 years and then the next ones bought. Isn't that just perpetually requiring new cars, which is more footprint..?
Correct - as long as you routinely crush 2 year old ex lease cars, or completely incorrect if the ex lease car is then bought by someone else. Which one do you think is the usual process?
There is a real worry over battery degradation and high cost of repair of EVs this will smash resale and confidence to buy. Hybrid is the best compromise
Depends which countries they are driven in. If you compare Australia( mainly coal fired power stations) to France (mainly nuclear), the difference in carbon footprint to reach parity will be huge..
Do they include dealing with battery recycling with EV's as this requires energy . Currently 50% of ev battery material can be easily recycled, what is the Governments plans for disposal of the remaining toxic material as it can't be put into the ground safely.
@@paulnewman9275less than 5% of lithium ion waste worldwide is actually recycled as it isn’t economical to recycle lithium ion batteries. We collect 34% in the uk for recycling but there is no official figure for how much is recycled or exported. I doubt if we recycle much in the uk as it’s energy intensive and there would be quite a lot of toxic waste to manage.
Biggest problem with EVs is the limited life, before a whole load more CO2 is used creating it's replacement. I very much doubt we will see many EVs reach more than 12-14 years, without the battery losing so much range it becomes impractical to keep. Yes I know high mileage examples exist, but that is very different to high time. There is no reason to assume that an EV that can do 300k miles in 6 years, could do even half that over 14 years. All battery chemistries are affected by time, just as much, if not more than usage. Engines can be rebuilt many times over but batteries just are not economically viable to replace.
I do feel the number should be maybe worked out better I can kinda understand why it most likely very difficult to work out the full climate impact of an ice or a ev has getting to market has. However as the energy grid get cleaner and technology of batteries chemistry get better and they can make smaller batteries then EV are only going to get cleaner. Where as ICE I feel the tech been taken nearly as far as it can can go on efficiency. Plus at least at the end of life span of a ev, the battery can have a second life as energy storage or recycled, something you can’t really do with an ice.
Gartner also say: New Tech Makes EVs Costlier to Repair Gartner predicts that by 2027, the average cost of an EV body and battery serious accident repair will increase by 30%. As a result, vehicles suffering a collision may be more prone to a total write-off as the repair could cost more than its residual value. Equally, more expensive crash repairs may lead to more expensive insurance premiums or even the refusal of insurance companies to cover particular car models. Gartner says the fast reduction of BEV production costs should not be done at the expense of higher repair costs, as it may generate consumer backlash in the long run. New ways to produce a BEV must only be deployed together with processes to ensure low repair costs. So, what is the cost to the environment and drivers pockets with these figures added in? Were they in that myth busting pamphlet? 🤔
As a % i wonder how many EVs ARE OFF ROAD LOOKING for the next smuck . Dealer forcourt / Storage compounds / Airfield dumps ect. Looking at autotrader numbers ect . Only shows part of the number but it is very high in % terms . As usual manufacturers try and cover it up. I remember Volvo once used a disused quary to hide Pre- Reg and unsold stock in uk.
Working out when an EVs carbon footprint, becomes less than an ICE car's, requires quite a bit of maths and it varies between all EVs. I own a Mini Cooper Electric, (it replaced my old Mini Cooper 1.6 petrol), so its manufacturing carbon footprint, minus its batteries, is virtually the same as the manufacturing carbon footprint of its ICE equal, minus its engine and I've got no idea, what the carbon footprint is concerning the manufacturing of an engine for an ICE is, BUT, the carbon footprint for manufacturing my Mini Cooper Electric's batteries, is about 3 tons of CO2, as it's got 32 kWh batteries, (29 kWh of usable batteries) it works out at 100kg of CO2 produced in manufacturing per 1 kWh of any EV battery, lets say a brand new Mini Cooper Electric and a brand new Mini Cooper 1.6 petrol, roll off the production line on the same day, on day1, the Mini Cooper Electrics carbon footprint is 3 tons more than its ICE equal. Next, take the average UK motorists annual mileage into consideration, that's about 7,500 miles, then divide that by the average MPG of the ICE concerned, (I usually got about 36 mpg out of my old Mini Cooper 1.6 petrol), to get the number of gallons of petrol used per average year, (208 for my old Mini Cooper 1.6 petrol) then times that number by 9, as that's the weight of CO2 created in kg, 9kg, when one gallon of petrol is burnt, (yep, that's about correct, when a gallon of petrol that weighs about 3 kg is burnt, it really does create 9 kg of CO2, petrol is a hydrocarbon, made of hydrogen and carbon, usually its a chain of 8 hydrogen molecules, (8 is where we get the word "oct"ane, from) with 2 molecules of carbon attached to each hydrogen molecule, except at, the 2 ends of the chain, where there are 3 carbon molecules per molecule of hydrogen, when its burnt, (oxidised) each carbon molecule combines with 2 oxygen molecules, to make CO2, the increase in weight is because for each carbon molecule burnt, it grabs 2 molecules of oxygen out of the air to combine with). So the annual carbon footprint of my old Mini Cooper 1.6 petrol, was about 1,900 kg, as that's 209 its annual fuel consumption in gallons, times by, 9, the number of kg, per gallon of petrol burnt, to get its annual CO2 amount, in kg, that's 1,900, if yer want to be as realistic as possible to calculate the CO2 emissions connected to running an ICE, add about 2 1/2 kg of CO2, it creates per gallon of petrol it uses, as that's about how much CO2 is produced, to obtain, transport, refine and distribute one gallon of petrol, so 2.5 times by 209 makes an extra about 500 kg of CO2, per year, shoving that 1,900 kg of CO2 per year, to as good as 2,500 kg, this where electricity used to power vehicles starts to make a lot of sense, as electricity, only needs the grid to transport and distribute it to your nearest EV charging point, another "valid point" about EVs is this one, one gallon of fuel, has the energy equal to 33 kWh of electrical energy, and virtually ALL EVs, can easily do 4 miles per kWh, that is equal to getting 132 mpg, I did once get 6 miles per kWh out of my Mini Cooper Electric, that's equal to getting 198 mpg, so ANYONE can easily see which way this is heading, as the science, maths and economics show that, "it takes far less energy, to propel an EV, the same distance as an ICE, while causing a lesser impact on the Environment" an average EV that does 4 miles per kWh, charging up at the most expensive 80p per kW, costs 20p per mile in fuel, and an average ICE petrol costs 19.7p per mile in fuel, BUT, there are plenty of EV chargers for far less than 80p per kW, my local one, which I've been using for 4 and 1/2 years now, is TOTALLY FREE to use, I paid £25,000 in cash for my Mini Cooper Electric, with 1,000 miles on the clock, outright, 4 and 1/2 years ago, now its worth £15,000 so its "lost??????" £10,000 in value, "no it hasn't" as I've saved about £5,500 over 4 and 1/2 years, by charging it up for FREE at least 90% of the time, "so its still lost £4,500", NOPE, as I've had about £3,500 in the Central London Congestion Zone fees, for FREE, the FREE charging is still ongoing too, this is WHY I call my Mini Cooper Electric "an Eco Friendly FREE RANGE Mini Cooper Electric" , So lets have a look at my Mini Cooper Electrics carbon footprint, 3 tons more CO2 on the production line, than its ICE equal, and IF I'm charging it up at a FREE public EV charging point, virtually ALL EV charging organisations are buying electricity produced by renewables, which means, the CO2 created by that process, is easily less than 1/10 of the CO2, produced by its equal ICE, so its annual CO2 emissions are about 200 kg per year at worst, after one year, its 3,200 kg, compared to 2,500 kg for its ICE equal, after 2 years its, 3,400 kg, compared to 5,000 kg for its ICE equal, after 10 years its, 5,000 kg, compared to 25,000 kg for its ICE equal, it doesnt make any difference, if an EV is on the road, or sat in a showroom, (as eventually someone will buy it) as it will ALWAYS be far cleaner than an ICE, over its entire lifespan and THAT is ALL that matters. (JEEZE, I consumed 2 and 1/2 pints of organic beer while writing this lot, LOL)
As most EV's will be leased chances are mileage will be kept low due to the mileage limits put on leases. If you haven't already you need to look at Barries other videos where he looks through autotrader cars and disects age and mileage and it's obvious that dealers have just pre registered cars to fool the system and get their quotas. Most of these cars then seem to dwindle in the system and sometimes change hands 2 or 3 times a year. You then have the situation where 1 or 2 yr old cars are appearing with delivery mileage?? You also have to remember that there are very few private buyers actually walking into showrooms with their own finance. According to the industry body SMMT (the ones who compile the sales statistics) say less than 1% are private buyers. All his statistics are taken from the cars currently on sale on Autotrader. Are Autotrader misleading the public??
I think Volvo stated that it takes 80,000 Km to of use to equal its carbon footprint. Volvo says emissions from making EVs can be 70% higher than petrol models - and claims it can take up to 9 YEARS of driving before they become greener Volvo claims carbon-intensive production for battery and steel makes its C40 EV more polluting to manufacture than an XC40 with a petrol engine It says at current global electricity mix, it needs to be driven almost 70k miles - 9 years based on average UK mileage - to offset its higher production emissions
I have no doubt that Ev depreciation is high ( having been a victim). Could you do a comparison between a Tesla model y and an equivalent possibly a landrover Evoque. Both £50k new
EVs are not for everyone. My nissan works for me perfectly, but if i cudnt charge at home/ work, I won't own it . I bought it to save cash on fuel and maintenance . You do what is best for you.
I love my car spewing out CO2. It keeps our food growing. Less CO2 means less crops, so I am doing my bit to help keep food on our tables and stop world starvation
Electric cars are reliable and great to drive with no pollution out of an exhaust, or noise. I can't wait for the silent clean running in towns and cities! if you have kids and grandkids what do you want them breathing in? I don't care about you of course.
Electric car are silent and deadly and very powerful and heavy and you can get run over from electric car 🚘 so more dangerous to pedestrians 🚶🏻my friend
But once they go into thermal runaway giving off poisonous gases and polluting the thousands of gallons of runoff water used to extinguish the flames. Hope you don't park yours to close to your house.
The claims for how long it takes to pay back that EV manufacturing carbon debt are just like the "xx times less likely to catch fire" claims. They vary so much it's almost as if they're completely made up.
Why would you think I hate EVs? Couldnt be further from the truth, it’s the people who lie about them that I hate, the ones that are giving people unrealistic expectations which is causing havoc with residuals and destroying the motortrade
Regardless of the break even mileage, they do concede that EVs are not as green as ICE when driven brand new off the forecourt? haha So none of the EVs are likely to be green within the first or second year of life? unless you drive a stupid amount of miles which is a whole separate issue in itself. So now when I see an EV I can judge its enviro credentials by its age? Maybe EVs should only be eligble to display the green badge once it has passed its break even mileage! 😂
Hes not including the carbon footprint of the tyres on the road or their carbon footprint of the battery being mined and created and then disposed of . 😞 quinten is a sell out
If you want to attack ICE cars then suggesting EVs are wonderful is going to be important, but in attacking EV myths from that perspective all you are doing is propogatring your own prejudice and bias! Given that is is not so easy to sell a used EV, or even a new one, then perhaps it would make more sense to look at why! The "dirty" argument is predicated on the idea that carbon emissions are bad, but objectively this is badly worded propaganda. Objectively, if the desire is to reduce carbon emissions then it is valid to look at how well EVs would work in doing this, But it is rare to see anyone attacking this line of enquiry!
There are 230 THOUSAND petrol and diesel cars on Autotrader with over 25k miles on the clock. Every single one of them would have been cleaner if it had been an EV
How many cars in their lifetime do 23000 miles ? Almost all. So almost all cars produced are net beneficial to the climate. It’s that simple. Sitting there grumpily complaining about all the cars that have not yet broken even is just pathetic.
So you were able to find lots of low mileage Evs. So what? My diesel Skoda at 11 months old had only done 3500 miles. That's because cars at dealerships don't get out much. I can assure you that both my Evs get used. I only got my first Ev a year ago because the proof wasn't there previously that the were worth buying. I've bought diesels for many years but the bills when they rack up the miles are now horrendous. The facts have changed and your manipulation of selective data only reinforces narrow minds. Buy what you like. I don't care. The Evangelists are as bad as you pretenders. I hate dealers being squeezed into selling EVs ahead of public acceptance but like or not change is coming.
Barry you are getting air quality (dirty) and CO2 emissions (greener) mixed up. They are related but different and separate. Conflating them makes you sound like an old fool.
Whatever the break even milage is, it's an ever lowering number as the grid becomes greener and greener. With a hundred percent green grid, including one hundred percent green mining, the break even milage will be zero. We will get there someday. In the meantime, ever improving numbers is the next best thing.
EVs are more expensive to run, this is EVery conversation i have with EV owners EV OWNER 'No its not as i charge at home so i dont buy fuel and its clean' Me 'yes i get that but my petrol car is cheaper to run even with service and fuel and i bought a second hand clean car so i have recycled' EV OWNER 'i dont need service and dont pay for fuel and harge at home so its cleaner' Me 'ok so you say its cheaper, i can do 1000 miles on £80 a month and its a clean running car' EV Owner 'its cheaper for me to charge at home' me 'yes but the offset from what you have paid for your lease/pcp, insurance and deprecation how much money have you saved charging at home? are you happy with the millions of litres of water used to produce a battery? the 1000's of extra barrels of oil used to run the machinery? ' EV OWNER ' ahh yes but its cheaper to run as i charge at home'
There is a real worry over battery degradation and high cost of repair of EVs this will smash resale and confidence to buy. Hybrid is the best compromise
All those EVs made in China in factories powered by coal fired power stations and then loaded onto car carriers which probably burn 100/150 tonnes of fuel oil per day to bring them to the UK and Europe. How clean is that?.
@jgtemperton No, we don't drive ICE cars from China. We drive ICE cars produced in Europe
As a MARINE CHIEF ENGINER you are correct "100 / 150 tons of "HEAVY BUNKER FUEL" a day. ALSO....MANY OF THESE SHIPS ARE GOING BACK NEARLY EMPTY . STILL BURNING SAME AMOUNT OF FUEL !!!. The Chinese do not care just keep the masses working / producing what there is no market for . I have seen some of the factories ...unbeliveable in size.
What about Drax cutting trees down in Canada making them into pellets shipping them to UK moving them to power station all done with petrol and diesel engines just to produce so called clean electricity for your car
@ Drax is an absolute joke!
They'll catch fire before they make it😂
Jeremy Clarkson correctly described EV's as white goods, seems a very good summing up of EV's.
Yep, they just work. They’re quiet, not particularly interesting, they do the job, don’t break down very often. They actually are the natural evolution of personal transport.
We have 42milion vehicles on UK roads driving ceased to be a pleasure around 20 years ago. Now it's just endless queues traffic cameras and delays.
@@dominicgoodwin1147 LOL, real white good are cheap and work.
EVs, expensive and a fire hazard .
@@xperyskop2475 Come on, you forgot the Joy of Potholes!
@@dominicgoodwin1147 How many fridges catch fire spontaneously and burn like EV's?
The fact that a booklet has been produced to attempt to dispel myths is a sign that all is not well with the EV world. Why is something that is supposed to be rooted in fact prone to such debate and vitriol? Why can nobody agree on the payback period? However, it's a tiresome needless debate because these things are happening to us no matter what due to govt and supra-govt motives that have nothing to do with clean air and green stuff.
Wouldn't it be better if a booklet like this was produced by a company or organisation that does NOT have a vested interest in promoting EV's ?
The industry may be hanging on by a thread for the new rollout of sodium battery technologies.
This is not all going to go away, and as such l have decided to plan accordingly.
To me the eventual issue will be how long an electric car will last , because if it hast to be replaced sooner than an equivalent ice car then that must increase its carbon footprint . And as yet we don’t really know how long they are capable of lasting , irrespective of mileage . We know for a fact that most ice cars with good maintenance can last in excess of 20 years , and that’s with high mileages . Are we in all honesty likely to see this with an electric vehicle , and we most definitely have the problem of recycling batteries which will only increase in number till a viable method of recycling is developed . There will be millions of them lying around, just leaching into the ground in some out of the way place , or worse catching fire and polluting the environment. The future doesn’t seem very bright to me , and it will take more than Quintin to convince me otherwise . 😂
Because people are idiots and beleive the lies about battery life, battery fires, hydrogen being the future etc etc. No one "agrees" on the payback period because it varies from car to car, a lot.
Hes not including the carbon footprint of the tyres on the road or their carbon footprint of the battery being mined and created and then disposed of . 😞 quinten is a sell out
Carbon bollocks! The gas of life! More carbon more green trees!
Spoken with full-throated dearth of information that you've chosen for your lot in life.
@@Tom-dt4ic Try this, then...co2 is 420 part per million of the atmosphere. If it drops to 180ppm, all plant life dies and so do we.
It's 420, it has been 6000 and the planet's still thriving.
Fifty years of failed predictions of doom and the United Nations expects us to continue to believe the Great Lie. Here endeth the lesson for tonight.
@@Tom-dt4ic Hmmmmm, funny that. I'm pretty sure thats what the founder of Greenpeace is saying as well though. Just saying.....
@@Tom-dt4icLittle net zero shill. Pathetic.
@jgtemperton I explained the fraudulent myth of co2 and my comment has disappeared. Funny old world, isn't it?
Why do so many EV buyers want to get rid of them so soon?
Cos they are crap 😅😅😅
Almost 8 years in still enjoying my Nissan Leaf
Because they’re buying an even better one.
@dominicgoodwin1147 Hilarious, but wrong 52% go back to a hybrid or ICE vehicle ....facts hurt dont they :)
@xperyskop2475 Enjoying a Nissan Leaf , oh dear , you must have a very low enjoyment threshold:))))
I looked at changing from a Jaguaur Xf to a tesla . The fully comp Jag costs £300 a year, whereas the tesla costs £1030 . £730 is one heck of a difference
The printers spelt the title of the book wrong. It should have read 'The Little Book Of EV Lies' by EVangelists Anonymous.
Didn't Volvo admit last year for a EV to match an ICE carbon footprint. That ICE vehicle would have to have covered 70000+ miles ?
My landcruiser has 420 000 km still going well since 1996
yes they compared the same model electric and petrol and realised that the ice car was cleaner to produce
@jgtemperton check out this is money website
Its more like 200,00 miles with a Tesla
They did i was told by an EVangelist that Volvo got the figures wrong. A company who manufactures the EV got it wrong apparently. Yes of course they did.
I will never buy that junk.
Just throw away rubbish.
Cool 😎. I have been driving my Nissan leaf for almost 8 years and 65K miles. Nothing went wrong with it.
@@xperyskop2475 Come back at 100k miles.
@@MrChriss000 Comment again in 5 years I will keep you posted.
You should get a medal at 50k worse car on the road, just shading out the Zoe
@@xperyskop2475 Well thats my point, you doin bugger all miles.
I have had several old cheap cars that have done 250k miles, even if it takes an engine change with a used lump out of a low mileage wreck that doesnt cost like a new battery set up.
65k miles, cheeses.
I got a honds 350 twin that has 110k on it.
Can't help but see all the poor being absolutely pushed out the picture. All these people pushing the benefits of an EV, are all seemingly well off. How would a carer for example find an EV that would work for them for less than say 5k let alone charge them. Most i have met are driving cars worth 1-2k tops.
That's the plan. Priced off the roads.
@@69spook Agreed. But funnily, we need more and more and more carers. So if none of them can travel I suppose it'll end up like that film Soylent Green. Or Logan's Run.
@jgtemperton you're busy pumping in the replies. Have you got answers to the questions that people raise? Start with addressing the inability to charge at home, the high price of charging away from home, the unreliability of the network etc. Do so without sounding like you have clenched fists.
Not far from where i live in rural Norfolk 15 miles from Norwich is a power station generating electricity by burning straw bales.. they claim to be net zero BUT all the lorries are comingfrom places like preston, mersea island,corby,bedford. How is that net zero???
Net zero is a pipe dream 💭 my friend, I don’t believe in net zero I live in the real world 🌍 my friend 😎
The excuse is that it's "renewable". Like Drax power station being powered (less efficiently than with coal) by wood, transported from the western side of Canada. The carbon footprint actually works out higher. But that's irrelevant because CO2 is not what's making the climate change; it's natural processes.
@@hunchanchoc8418please elaborate. Are you a fully certified UA-cam expert or are you still doing your own research?
@@befunged my father is a farmer who relies on c02 to grow crops and foods in green houses we do my own research and its not the co2 thats driving climate change its a natural cycle proved by many climate experts and the tilt of the polar north of earth is also changing so we are spending longer in sun radiation , we are relying on co2 generators to fill greenhouses to grow plants at the moment and its a basic science that plants rely on co2 for food ... i learnt that back in 1975....
co2 is naturally produced by seas and also by plants as well and there is a lot of it that forms naturally in soil... if we record low co2 of 3% or less in soil content we cant plant it according to the powers that be as we have to let the land 'rest'
@@vandamonium1731so you're a self qualified UA-cam expert. Have you also attended the university of Facebook and added the royal society of twitter to your CV?
The green EV number plate stickers are like face masks - they quickly and efficiently let you know, at a glance, who to avoid.
I own a Mini Cooper Electric, with a green rectangle on its number plate
and I've personally risked my life TWICE to successfully save 2 peoples lives,
so "I'M CHUFFED TO BITS" that you would clearly go well out of your way,
to avoid me, "ESPECIALLY, if YOU found yourself in a LIFE or DEATH situation"
so good luck with that one hey as yer would need, a "one in a million dude"
to risk his or her life, to save yer life and stuff like that "never? happens??" does it.
Thanks for proving my theory, Karen.
In their current incarnation these are essentially disposable, expensive phones on wheels. Find a PC manufacturer that has enabled the use of electronics that can take the required evolution of security patches (from a hardware perspective). After so many years they will be insecure with no ability to upgrade to the latest patches. You will not see 20 or 30 year old EV’s. So no, not a benefit to the claimed climate problems.
Sorry Barry the thumbnail for this vid isn't flash. It's really hard to read the text when it blends into the background.
Yep, can’t get into that looking confused or shrugging selfie thumbnail stuff 😂
@BarrieCrampton Maybe see if you can put a background color behind the text so it doesn't get lost in the picture. Don't mean to pile on you, was just something I noticed. That was the first video of yours I've seen. 😃
@TheSparkySpitz you are right, constructive criticism welcomed
Barrie you brighten my life
Thank you 👍
That book seems 15 years out of date already. No one is saying battteries don't last. If your car doesn't catch fire, then yes, it will get to high mileage. But you'll be charging it more, as its overall capacity lessens. I wonder if the RAC book also mentions how many of their breakdown trucks with generators go out to charge EVs. Or how many they pick up and tow? Doubt it.
AA figures are 2% of EV call outs are for out of charge. That's reduced from 8% in 2016. Source is fleet news.
I don't know about RAC figures but mainly because I couldn't be bothered to look.
Battery capacity degradation is quite slow. Mine had lost 3% in 40000miles. I can't say I've noticed any difference.
@esm7708 I lost much more in my Nissan leaf. But its ancient technology compared to new cars . I have seen MG with 120K miles and 92% battery health.
1 MILION miles before battery dies.
Crazy
@@xperyskop2475 sorry I meant to write excluding Leafs. Quite why they didn't bother with thermal management is a mystery. I've got an MG ZS.
These people don’t know. They make it up as they go along.
It’s like they pick a low figure out of the air.
Mark my words in years to come it will come out how bad these EV’s are and they’ll wants us all back in petrol.
It’s all about ££££
No. It’s all about control. Cars are freedom. Freedom to work more than a bicycle ride from home. Freedom to go on holiday. To attend hospital appointments without a Taxi or bus. Freedom to drive to the other end of the country, urgently, to see a friend or family member, without having to wait for the car to charge sufficiently. When EVs are a majority transport, they’ll prohibit the use of them due to the fragilities and risk of fire. Unless you can afford to spend £50k every year or three on a new one.
It takes up to 55kWh of energy to produce 1kWh of lithium Battery storage. A useable battery is somewhere between 60 and 100kWh. If the battery is manufactured in China at 582g of Co2 the manufacturing Co2 emissions of the Battery could be as much as 55x 100x582 = 3201 kg of Co2 before it’s turned a wheel . This is 32,000 km if you add in the electricity uk at 168g of Co2 168/4.5 at 37g of co2 per km an EV would have to do an additional 11,000 km to break even. If you drive in any country with higher Co2 emissions the pay back is much longer on the German grid 380g of Co2 per kWh the EV could never repay its carbon manufacturing debt.
It takes between 4-12 kilowatts to refine gallon of crude oil . Whete do I add those carbon emissions to ?
@@xperyskop2475 I compared the manufacturing Co2 emissions of 2 vehicles with previously refined materials. But if you want to count the energy costs of refining the components of a Battery then you can add at least another 200kWh per kWh of batterry storage. So you can have 5,000 gallons (150,000 miles) of fuel for a long range batterry manufacturing , it kind of makes the pay back even longer. But please pop your calculations down and share your thoughts about how many miles you need to do. I’ve been quite kind uk emmision are 168g of Co2 this is kind because it’s 209g of Co2 at night and does not include transmission, charging and storage losses which is between 15 and 35%.
@@xperyskop2475 Well played!
@@tobycolin6271 Don't forget that the elements in batteries are recyclable. So no matter how bad the calculations come out, and yours are conveniently leaving numbers out and exaggerating others in favor of ICE cars, no matter how bad, the next time these recycled elements are sourced for a battery, their carbon footprint will be quite a bit less.
Where do I add the carbon footprint of transporting all that oil? Ships, pumps, storage, etc. And where do I include the cost to society of increased lung cancer and emphysema, not to mention childhood asthma, etc. Oh, and let's not forget the trillions and trillions of dollars that global warming will cost society. And already is. Hint, hint, Florida. Did you conveniently neglect to factor these numbers into your deceptively meticulous calculations?
I just watched cars UK video. Sub £5k second hand cars are going up in value 😮
@jgtemperton Yep, but the sun £5k car is for the poor people, while the EVs are for the champagne socialist....
Just looked through the free booklet and as an EV driver (now own my second one) it is full of misleading info. Example, they are dead cheap to charge from home (true), charging from public charges is very expensive (also true, anywhere up to 85p/kWh, so very expensive), then goes on to say if you don't have off road charging its possible to to use public chargers! Presumably whilst also going bankrupt.
EVs are great for the group of users that fit the EV use case and the other 85% (ish) of the UK's drivers would be better off with an ICE vehicle.
85% how do you come to that figure? Given that over 50% have access to driveways and the average miles per year is under 8000.
@@esm7708 Its a guess :^) 50% have access to driveways (I'll assume you are correct) but are all these single occupancy residencies, think how many houses with drives have 2 or more cars in them - my neighbour has 5 in his when his children are back from Uni? Does everyone living at these premises have a job or lifestyle that would make an EV a realistic choice. Of the residents of the 50% of dwellings that have a driveway and work, how many would need an EV with a longer range, could they afford it? How many of those living in this 50% are retired and are reliant on the state pension for their income, and so on and so forth. I would expect the real number for which an EV would be the wrong choice or they couldn't afford one would be somewhere between 75 and 85%.
But its all just an estimated guess like most 'facts' surrounding EVs.
@jgtemperton I don't find the availability of charging much of a problem, with a bit of thought. It is the prices that put people off, 65-85p/kWh is just a rip off, when compared to the standard domestic tariff (and business bulk users pay a lot less).
@jim373 I'm struggling to understand why a car with more than 200 miles range isn't a realistic choice for most people. Especially when the average miles per year is about 8000. I do over 20000 miles and it's entirely realistic.
They also don't need to be charged every night. In the same way you don't fill your car with petrol on the way back from work everyday.
I feel like you're inventing scenarios and problems that don't exist to come to a nonsense figure.
@jgtemperton exactly. As I penetrate my 40s I've come to realise my range is less than the cars.
I've got a 2019 VW Golf petrol which has covered 125,000 miles. Only 20 of the EVs on Autotrader have covered this mileage. EVs have not yet proved that they last the distance.
The charging alone would take another 2 years on top to get anywhere near 125,000 miles.
Hi Barry,
Not sure if you have seen this report from Volvo on their own cars. It's a bit old so maybe there have been some improvements in manufacture of EV's. But like you point out nobody, or very few people, are driving them to the break even point where they become cleaner than an ICE vehicle. Even if somebody does buy it second hand and takes the EV up to the break even mileage, the person who renewed their EV after three years is starting a new co2 deficit.
We live in a consumer society of limited warranties and keeping up with the Joneses. Ev cars are renewed before people think the battery will crap out as they know their car is worthless then.
If the green lobby want to do something about pollution they should make people drive their car till it is ten years old or more, no selling nearly new cars. Not good for you or the motor trade but so much is discarded these days for cosmetic reasons.
I worked in Africa and loved seeing so many really old mercedes, so battered but still kept running because of the quality and ease of maintenance. Something EV's don't have.
EV's are not greener just another way to sell you something new at a higher price. It's like headphones, phones, laptops, tablets, we never used to pay £400 for a set of headphones, or over a thousand for a phone.
Things are balancing out now with prices dropping on second hand EV's.
Glad to see you are calling out this madness. Keep up the good work. Search Google "volvo ev vs ice report".
See UA-cam / Harry's Garage: I'm back in diesel
Harry Metcalfe ( founder of Evo magazine ) was an E.V. enthusiast / early adopter
What's your point? Do you think when you sell a car on autotrader it goes to a scrap yard?
You seem to have deliberately missed my point, so I will leave it at that
All you have is depreciation and stories.
@ and your point is? Because my point is EV depreciation and I’ve got it across haven’t I 😂
@@BarrieCrampton yes we know they currently depreciate badly. So the options are to lease through salary sacrifice (paying through the nose on gross deductions to protect the lease company), buy one and keep it for a long time, buy a second hand one or suck it up like owners of Alfas do.
Personally I'm toying with buying a second hand Ioniq 6. They're a bargain.
Feels like I’ve landed in a whole world of dumb.
You should fit right in 👍
Yes ex car Salesman ( this youtube chanell presenter) talking sweet to ICE car owners so he can make a £$.
@ . Ah, yes - the guy who thinks EVs wear their brakes more than ice cars because they are more aerodynamic.
@ wow you are dumb 😂
@@xperyskop2475 I’ve just bought another EV 😂 I thought @bordersw1239 was talking about me, but now I see he’s right 😂
VW just announced its closing 3 manufacturing facilities in Germany with the loss of tens of thousands of jobs and relocating elsewhere, citing high energy costs and the Chinese EV advantage. Europeans are buying made in China EV’s despite their awful reputation.
I heard you cant jack one corner up to change a tyre as it may twist / damage the battery ...is yhat true ?
That's right. No tyres have been changed since EVs came onto the road, the whole car has to get scrapped ! Then the driver gets shot by the RAC man in case he tells anyone. It's a scandal !!!!
Barrie, what do you make of Volkswagen’s announcement that they now propose to shut 3 car plants in Germany, not the previously announced 2? In addition, the remaining workforce will have to take a 10% wage reduction plus a cessation of bonus payments and other benefits.
I think its all down to EVs, disgraceful!!!
@ Yep. Net Zero pie-in-the-sky mandates forced onto car manufacturers who have invested billions into building cars no one wants.
If I'd had known it was 14 years to scrap a car which mine is, I wouldn't have MOT'd my diesel this year. 😜
I wish I'd never bought my diesel but that was over 10 years ago. Didn't even know it had a DPF when I bought it. It's Euro 5 so I can't even drive into Bristol now.
There was a guy on TalkTv radio who was from TFL and he said that EVs must pay for the pollution they cause because the large EV SUVs generate as much pollution as an ICE suv due to tyre particulates from the incredible weight and acceleration.
I watched a great video where the break even was more like 220,000 miles and the researcher was a pro EV chap so .....
Citation please? I’ve never even heard an anti-ev person put it that high.
@dominicgoodwin1147 It's on UA-cam, he looks at birth to death ,very interesting and very damning of the way we look at EV's as zero emission which we all know is nonsense.." The contradictions of battery operated vehicles " look it up , about 9:30 in shows some great graphs and facts. It's early days but at the rate EV's are being written off due to minor damage or failed batteries Clarkson alarmingly is right - they are thrown away white goods .
@ yes, I have seen that one too, actually, but it’s been debunked in that he ignores the emissions of the entire supply chain of fossil fuels.
Also the uk grid is really much greener than that already. The global average is irrelevant. Every ev driven off renewable energy is a net benefit.
@@dominicgoodwin1147 Debunked by who? Not anyone who knows the industry ... he also ignores many aspects of EV production like the cost of the water table dropping 25cm in parts of South America, Define renewable energy ? Another term banded around by people who dont know what they are talking about - if you mention wind turbines than I know you are very misinformed indeed. Net zero is a political agenda like most things , no real science behind it other than reports paid for by vested parties.
The 2020 Volvo study is online. It states 47,000 - 146,000 km is the CO² breakeven point
Whenever I hear "proper understanding" I know I'm listening to someone without an argument.
EVs are green...and other colour options too haha But seriously, if something costs more doesn't it mean more energy, material and effort has been used to make it? hence why EVs cost a fortune? In ICE cars, the larger they are the less environmental they are? so why are all EVs virtually large SUVs or saloons? The fact you have a break even mileage sets a target mileage to achieve which goes against the whole point of driving less in the first place.
You keep saying I ve seen reports. But the opposition cites actual reports that we can look up and read ourselves.
all my videos have the reports, i just cant show you Autotraders figures as they will get the hump with me
Even though I could easily afford £4-500 per month to drive around in a new car, I have always chosen not to. I refuse to spend more than a few thousand on a deprecating asset, irrespective of type.
When choosing a vehicle I lean heavily on long-term reliability. The problem with EVs for the time being is it's all completely unproven technology.
I will not be buying an EV until the dust settles and the picture is clear as to which cars are going to cost owners a fortune as they get older. End of.
A used car is in its prime VALUE range when its price is the same as what the first owner paid in taxes.
Barrie, i'd be interested to see a video on leasing companies. In my mind the only way i see people buying EV's is leasing them because it negates the risk. No one wants a used EV and it's a risk buying one new outright. Leasing companies must be feeling the hit from this surely on the used car market?
They really do just grab random facts don't they. Their way of working out the carbon footprint of an EV probably doesn't take into account of the tyres they go through, or the brake pads, discs, callipers. I'd be interested to know the footprint when a car is leased for 2 years and then the next ones bought. Isn't that just perpetually requiring new cars, which is more footprint..?
Correct - as long as you routinely crush 2 year old ex lease cars, or completely incorrect if the ex lease car is then bought by someone else. Which one do you think is the usual process?
EVM said he'd had 12 new tyres over 60k miles on his Tesla m3😮
@@69spook . Link to video?
Thanks Barrie. n 10-15 years (maybe sooner) will be the new *did you drive a diesel Citroen/peugout/audi/merc/whatever" No win no fees wet dream
There is a real worry over battery degradation and high cost of repair of EVs this will smash resale and confidence to buy.
Hybrid is the best compromise
Depends which countries they are driven in. If you compare Australia( mainly coal fired power stations) to France (mainly nuclear), the difference in carbon footprint to reach parity will be huge..
Do they include dealing with battery recycling with EV's as this requires energy . Currently 50% of ev battery material can be easily recycled, what is the Governments plans for disposal of the remaining toxic material as it can't be put into the ground safely.
Mineshafts ....
@@paulnewman9275less than 5% of lithium ion waste worldwide is actually recycled as it isn’t economical to recycle lithium ion batteries. We collect 34% in the uk for recycling but there is no official figure for how much is recycled or exported. I doubt if we recycle much in the uk as it’s energy intensive and there would be quite a lot of toxic waste to manage.
@tobycolin6271 I actually heard it was 3% but you are probably more up to date than me ...
Biggest problem with EVs is the limited life, before a whole load more CO2 is used creating it's replacement.
I very much doubt we will see many EVs reach more than 12-14 years, without the battery losing so much range it becomes impractical to keep.
Yes I know high mileage examples exist, but that is very different to high time.
There is no reason to assume that an EV that can do 300k miles in 6 years, could do even half that over 14 years.
All battery chemistries are affected by time, just as much, if not more than usage.
Engines can be rebuilt many times over but batteries just are not economically viable to replace.
I do feel the number should be maybe worked out better I can kinda understand why it most likely very difficult to work out the full climate impact of an ice or a ev has getting to market has. However as the energy grid get cleaner and technology of batteries chemistry get better and they can make smaller batteries then EV are only going to get cleaner. Where as ICE I feel the tech been taken nearly as far as it can can go on efficiency. Plus at least at the end of life span of a ev, the battery can have a second life as energy storage or recycled, something you can’t really do with an ice.
Gartner also say:
New Tech Makes EVs Costlier to Repair
Gartner predicts that by 2027, the average cost of an EV body and battery serious accident repair will increase by 30%. As a result, vehicles suffering a collision may be more prone to a total write-off as the repair could cost more than its residual value. Equally, more expensive crash repairs may lead to more expensive insurance premiums or even the refusal of insurance companies to cover particular car models.
Gartner says the fast reduction of BEV production costs should not be done at the expense of higher repair costs, as it may generate consumer backlash in the long run. New ways to produce a BEV must only be deployed together with processes to ensure low repair costs.
So, what is the cost to the environment and drivers pockets with these figures added in? Were they in that myth busting pamphlet? 🤔
As a % i wonder how many EVs ARE OFF ROAD LOOKING for the next smuck . Dealer forcourt / Storage compounds / Airfield dumps ect. Looking at autotrader numbers ect . Only shows part of the number but it is very high in % terms . As usual manufacturers try and cover it up. I remember Volvo once used a disused quary to hide Pre- Reg and unsold stock in uk.
Working out when an EVs carbon footprint, becomes less than an ICE car's,
requires quite a bit of maths and it varies between all EVs.
I own a Mini Cooper Electric, (it replaced my old Mini Cooper 1.6 petrol),
so its manufacturing carbon footprint, minus its batteries,
is virtually the same as the manufacturing carbon footprint of its ICE equal,
minus its engine and I've got no idea, what the carbon footprint is
concerning the manufacturing of an engine for an ICE is, BUT,
the carbon footprint for manufacturing my Mini Cooper Electric's batteries,
is about 3 tons of CO2, as it's got 32 kWh batteries, (29 kWh of usable batteries)
it works out at 100kg of CO2 produced in manufacturing per 1 kWh of any EV battery,
lets say a brand new Mini Cooper Electric and a brand new Mini Cooper 1.6 petrol,
roll off the production line on the same day, on day1, the Mini Cooper Electrics
carbon footprint is 3 tons more than its ICE equal.
Next, take the average UK motorists annual mileage into consideration,
that's about 7,500 miles, then divide that by the average MPG of the ICE concerned,
(I usually got about 36 mpg out of my old Mini Cooper 1.6 petrol),
to get the number of gallons of petrol used per average year,
(208 for my old Mini Cooper 1.6 petrol) then times that number by 9,
as that's the weight of CO2 created in kg, 9kg, when one gallon of petrol is burnt,
(yep, that's about correct, when a gallon of petrol that weighs about 3 kg is burnt,
it really does create 9 kg of CO2, petrol is a hydrocarbon, made of hydrogen and carbon,
usually its a chain of 8 hydrogen molecules, (8 is where we get the word "oct"ane, from)
with 2 molecules of carbon attached to each hydrogen molecule, except at,
the 2 ends of the chain, where there are 3 carbon molecules per molecule of hydrogen,
when its burnt, (oxidised) each carbon molecule combines with 2 oxygen molecules,
to make CO2, the increase in weight is because for each carbon molecule burnt,
it grabs 2 molecules of oxygen out of the air to combine with).
So the annual carbon footprint of my old Mini Cooper 1.6 petrol, was about 1,900 kg,
as that's 209 its annual fuel consumption in gallons, times by, 9, the number of kg,
per gallon of petrol burnt, to get its annual CO2 amount, in kg, that's 1,900,
if yer want to be as realistic as possible to calculate the CO2 emissions
connected to running an ICE, add about 2 1/2 kg of CO2, it creates per gallon of petrol
it uses, as that's about how much CO2 is produced, to obtain, transport, refine and distribute one gallon of petrol, so 2.5 times by 209 makes an extra about 500 kg of CO2,
per year, shoving that 1,900 kg of CO2 per year, to as good as 2,500 kg,
this where electricity used to power vehicles starts to make a lot of sense,
as electricity, only needs the grid to transport and distribute it to your nearest
EV charging point, another "valid point" about EVs is this one,
one gallon of fuel, has the energy equal to 33 kWh of electrical energy,
and virtually ALL EVs, can easily do 4 miles per kWh, that is equal to getting 132 mpg,
I did once get 6 miles per kWh out of my Mini Cooper Electric,
that's equal to getting 198 mpg, so ANYONE can easily see which way this is heading,
as the science, maths and economics show that, "it takes far less energy, to propel an EV,
the same distance as an ICE, while causing a lesser impact on the Environment"
an average EV that does 4 miles per kWh, charging up at the most expensive 80p per kW,
costs 20p per mile in fuel, and an average ICE petrol costs 19.7p per mile in fuel,
BUT, there are plenty of EV chargers for far less than 80p per kW,
my local one, which I've been using for 4 and 1/2 years now, is TOTALLY FREE to use,
I paid £25,000 in cash for my Mini Cooper Electric, with 1,000 miles on the clock,
outright, 4 and 1/2 years ago, now its worth £15,000 so its "lost??????"
£10,000 in value, "no it hasn't" as I've saved about £5,500 over 4 and 1/2 years,
by charging it up for FREE at least 90% of the time, "so its still lost £4,500",
NOPE, as I've had about £3,500 in the Central London Congestion Zone fees,
for FREE, the FREE charging is still ongoing too, this is WHY I call my
Mini Cooper Electric "an Eco Friendly FREE RANGE Mini Cooper Electric" ,
So lets have a look at my Mini Cooper Electrics carbon footprint,
3 tons more CO2 on the production line, than its ICE equal,
and IF I'm charging it up at a FREE public EV charging point,
virtually ALL EV charging organisations are buying electricity produced by renewables,
which means, the CO2 created by that process, is easily less than 1/10 of the CO2,
produced by its equal ICE, so its annual CO2 emissions are about 200 kg per year at worst, after one year, its 3,200 kg, compared to 2,500 kg for its ICE equal,
after 2 years its, 3,400 kg, compared to 5,000 kg for its ICE equal,
after 10 years its, 5,000 kg, compared to 25,000 kg for its ICE equal,
it doesnt make any difference, if an EV is on the road, or sat in a showroom,
(as eventually someone will buy it) as it will ALWAYS be far cleaner than an ICE,
over its entire lifespan and THAT is ALL that matters.
(JEEZE, I consumed 2 and 1/2 pints of organic beer while writing this lot, LOL)
I dont understand your point. Whats the total EVs that hace exceeded 23500 miles? Chances are itll be the vast majority.
As most EV's will be leased chances are mileage will be kept low due to the mileage limits put on leases.
If you haven't already you need to look at Barries other videos where he looks through autotrader cars and disects age and mileage and it's obvious that dealers have just pre registered cars to fool the system and get their quotas.
Most of these cars then seem to dwindle in the system and sometimes change hands 2 or 3 times a year.
You then have the situation where 1 or 2 yr old cars are appearing with delivery mileage??
You also have to remember that there are very few private buyers actually walking into showrooms with their own finance. According to the industry body SMMT (the ones who compile the sales statistics) say less than 1% are private buyers.
All his statistics are taken from the cars currently on sale on Autotrader. Are Autotrader misleading the public??
I think Volvo stated that it takes 80,000 Km to of use to equal its carbon footprint.
Volvo says emissions from making EVs can be 70% higher than petrol models - and claims it can take up to 9 YEARS of driving before they become greener
Volvo claims carbon-intensive production for battery and steel makes its C40 EV more polluting to manufacture than an XC40 with a petrol engine
It says at current global electricity mix, it needs to be driven almost 70k miles - 9 years based on average UK mileage - to offset its higher production emissions
I seem to remember the chap who wrote that deliberately used the dirtiest electric and didn't include the manufacture of petrol.
Well said Barry
Barrie My 2021 Hyundai Kona EV is currently at 33,774 miles and it drives as good as new when i got it in the first day 3 years ago!
I’m sure, but for the same money now you could have bought 2
@@BarrieCrampton 🤣🤣🤣Great rejoinder!
How many tyres have you used?
I have no doubt that Ev depreciation is high ( having been a victim).
Could you do a comparison between a Tesla model y and an equivalent possibly a landrover Evoque.
Both £50k new
Doing 23500 miles, is way below the real number......
yes i think it is too,
Gartner will produce an ‘independent’ report based on who pays them the most. 😂
Mitsubishi Australia disclosed a figure saying that their pickup needed to be driven 120000km before it broke even with a like for like ice pickup.
"with a new EV" isnt NEW the real problem?
EVs are not for everyone. My nissan works for me perfectly, but if i cudnt charge at home/ work, I won't own it . I bought it to save cash on fuel and maintenance .
You do what is best for you.
What about brakes and tyres wearing out quicker and polluting more
I love my car spewing out CO2. It keeps our food growing. Less CO2 means less crops, so I am doing my bit to help keep food on our tables and stop world starvation
A few years ago it will have been over 90%. It'll happen in a newly growing market.
23500 is break even with clean electricity which doesnt exist. Every windmill doesnt even replace its own CO2 costs in its working life!
QUENTIN the convicted car clocker
If it was about saving the planet ,they'd be making EVs to go slower and further ..
Volvo said 90k miles, mg said 48k miles
I’ve said before Jack Inori, Jack, Inori
When synthetic / bio fuels or hydrogen get cheaper, EVs will go the same way as the dinosaurs
They like their little books. So did Mao.
Electric cars are reliable and great to drive with no pollution out of an exhaust, or noise. I can't wait for the silent clean running in towns and cities! if you have kids and grandkids what do you want them breathing in? I don't care about you of course.
EV (milk float) is worthless for long journeys.
Electric car are silent and deadly and very powerful and heavy and you can get run over from electric car 🚘 so more dangerous to pedestrians 🚶🏻my friend
@@zitzongyou do know about tire noise?
Long term EV users have found they eat up tyres. Lots of pollution in the air from that....😕
But once they go into thermal runaway giving off poisonous gases and polluting the thousands of gallons of runoff water used to extinguish the flames. Hope you don't park yours to close to your house.
The claims for how long it takes to pay back that EV manufacturing carbon debt are just like the "xx times less likely to catch fire" claims. They vary so much it's almost as if they're completely made up.
Barrie you must hate EVs so much . I think this far more to do youtube earnings. Barrie you are better this.
Why would you think I hate EVs? Couldnt be further from the truth, it’s the people who lie about them that I hate, the ones that are giving people unrealistic expectations which is causing havoc with residuals and destroying the motortrade
Youve down loaded it ,,,,but , is it "safe and effective " ?
As the latest BMW EV advert says " It doesn't hinder my life at all" 😂😁🤣😜🤪
The Danish number is 72.2%. Guess we are not that different 🙂.
2:35 ‘………and use factual and data…..’
Use factual what?
Whoever wrote this must have had one too many glasses of liquidised kale. 🤦🏻♂️
Regardless of the break even mileage, they do concede that EVs are not as green as ICE when driven brand new off the forecourt? haha So none of the EVs are likely to be green within the first or second year of life? unless you drive a stupid amount of miles which is a whole separate issue in itself. So now when I see an EV I can judge its enviro credentials by its age? Maybe EVs should only be eligble to display the green badge once it has passed its break even mileage! 😂
Little book of EV myths?😂😂😂
I hear someone makes a spectacular firework called Lithium Armageddon....
The EV will be un buyable and scrapped a lot earlier than a combustion engine
Hes not including the carbon footprint of the tyres on the road or their carbon footprint of the battery being mined and created and then disposed of . 😞 quinten is a sell out
RAC are rubbing there hands EVs need the RAC to get enough charge to get home or a working charger
Batteries life
Do any of these ev lovers go on holidays on aeroplanes? Hippocrates
TV's ?
Auto correct 😂 EVs
@@BarrieCrampton LOL
Kind of loosing the plot ….apples to apples
If you want to attack ICE cars then suggesting EVs are wonderful is going to be important, but in attacking EV myths from that perspective all you are doing is propogatring your own prejudice and bias! Given that is is not so easy to sell a used EV, or even a new one, then perhaps it would make more sense to look at why! The "dirty" argument is predicated on the idea that carbon emissions are bad, but objectively this is badly worded propaganda. Objectively, if the desire is to reduce carbon emissions then it is valid to look at how well EVs would work in doing this, But it is rare to see anyone attacking this line of enquiry!
i think you have got the wrong end of the stick, im not biased, its the EV shills who are, biased liars!
@@BarrieCrampton The question is perhaps whom my stick is pointing at. Not you!
There are 230 THOUSAND petrol and diesel cars on Autotrader with over 25k miles on the clock. Every single one of them would have been cleaner if it had been an EV
Zitzong you are talking rubbish about evs. There really is no excuse they have been on the roads for over 12 years now.
How many cars in their lifetime do 23000 miles ? Almost all. So almost all cars produced are net beneficial to the climate. It’s that simple. Sitting there grumpily complaining about all the cars that have not yet broken even is just pathetic.
So you were able to find lots of low mileage Evs. So what? My diesel Skoda at 11 months old had only done 3500 miles. That's because cars at dealerships don't get out much. I can assure you that both my Evs get used. I only got my first Ev a year ago because the proof wasn't there previously that the were worth buying. I've bought diesels for many years but the bills when they rack up the miles are now horrendous. The facts have changed and your manipulation of selective data only reinforces narrow minds. Buy what you like. I don't care. The Evangelists are as bad as you pretenders. I hate dealers being squeezed into selling EVs ahead of public acceptance but like or not change is coming.
Barry you are getting air quality (dirty) and CO2 emissions (greener) mixed up. They are related but different and separate. Conflating them makes you sound like an old fool.
What’s conflating mean? 😂
Not just a fool, an old fool 😂
Whatever the break even milage is, it's an ever lowering number as the grid becomes greener and greener. With a hundred percent green grid, including one hundred percent green mining, the break even milage will be zero. We will get there someday. In the meantime, ever improving numbers is the next best thing.
100% green grid , you are hilarious 😂😂😂😂😂
It will only ever be green when the wind blows no less than 100% of the time and 24hrs a day of sunshine. Not happening.
EVs will never get there. Personal transport and freedom are done.
@@G-ra-ha-m And the horse will never be replaced either as the chief way to get around.
@@paulnewman9275They'll paint it with green paint 😂
EVs are more expensive to run, this is EVery conversation i have with EV owners
EV OWNER 'No its not as i charge at home so i dont buy fuel and its clean'
Me 'yes i get that but my petrol car is cheaper to run even with service and fuel and i bought a second hand clean car so i have recycled'
EV OWNER 'i dont need service and dont pay for fuel and harge at home so its cleaner'
Me 'ok so you say its cheaper, i can do 1000 miles on £80 a month and its a clean running car'
EV Owner 'its cheaper for me to charge at home'
me 'yes but the offset from what you have paid for your lease/pcp, insurance and deprecation how much money have you saved charging at home? are you happy with the millions of litres of water used to produce a battery? the 1000's of extra barrels of oil used to run the machinery? '
EV OWNER ' ahh yes but its cheaper to run as i charge at home'
There is a real worry over battery degradation and high cost of repair of EVs this will smash resale and confidence to buy.
Hybrid is the best compromise