The Crusader Kings 2 connection is fascinating! It reminds me of an incident where a Wikipedia user made up a fictional system of naval ranks and ship classifications for the medieval Indian Chola Empire, and one of those made-up ship classes ended up being included in the Dynasties of India expansion for Age of Empires 2.
What about Fire Emblem 4 inventing a Norse weapon, knowing it was a fake, but because all the others in the game were based on real mythological Norse weapons, people who played the game assumed it was a real weapon they just hadn't heard of before, and it ended up on Wikipedia articles about Norse mythology, where other games ended up adding it.
@@CambrianChronicles The ship in question remains in the game, though at least one of the responsible Developers has given a statement on that mistake (it's kind of lackluster) I assume it will remain in place, unless a big stink is raised, but aoe has had some "controversies" since then. (The aoe 2 community seems to simply want to complain, i count myself as in their ranks, thouhh is dislike this tendency for negativity) Overall, there are a number of historical inaccuracies and anachronisms in aoe2, that i suspect will remain in the game for the forseeable future, though i suppose game balance is weighted higher than historical accuracy with it being a competetive game, afterall, i don't recall mayans and Celts or romans and Bengalis ever facing off on the battlefield.
I love how this channel's editing is becoming progressively more unhinged as you uncover that Iolo is seemingly behind every minor errors on welsh wikipedia, in the most pointless machiavelic plot
@@thezipcreator finally someone says it. He just looks smart, but he's clueless about everything, and doesn't care at all about the authenticity of his sources as long as he gets views
This is much more complicated than simple or obvious vandalism. It's actually far more chilling to me that a mistake like this - an unintended one it seems - can take years to spot and remove. Since editors are usually not bonafide experts in what they write or read or copy edit.
Both being relaxing and being entretaining are good, so, let's say that this chanel has r=100 and e=100, then the ratio would be r/e=1, but uf it were a bad chanel, and both r and e were 1, the ratio would still be 1. This ratio tells you basically nothing.
@@juanignaciolopeztellechea9401 🤓☝️”Uhm, aktually. The measurement you used does not adequately explain your critical opinion on the quality of the subject matter.”
@@CambrianChronicles Yes the Charlemagne bookmark is infamous for it. Most of the characters on the map are essentially made up. The sad thing is that given how well documented (relatively speaking) Wales is in terms of dynastic history they made this sort of error.
i'm pretty sure that they've done that for like every historical character at least in ck2 and ck3 because there's a little icon that's like "historical character" and if you click on it it just brings you to their wikipedia page
I'm currently playing EU4, produced by the same creators as Crusader Kings II, and I have just rerleased Wales in my game. The ruler it generated is 'Duke Cynan Ternyllwg' so it looks as though the error is safely stored in the Paradox name list.
This video reminds me of the CGP Grey video "Someone Dead Ruined My Life… Again." where Mr. Grey describes one of the rabbit holes he went down looking for the first use of the name "Tiffany," that led to a dead end after months of research.
The perpetuation of misinformation because of Crusader Kings II was not the finale I expected, but if it isn't a scenario I'm strangely familiar with. On December 16th, 2013, an edit was made to the Wikipedia article "List of mythological objects" that claimed that Ichaival was the name of a bow wielded by the Norse god Odin. The editor claimed that a second source stated this bow came from the land of Ýdalir, home of the god of skiing and archery Ullr. The edit also described the bow as being able to release ten arrows when using just one. This addition had no source to either of their sources. This false claim would remain until 2018, well after the name would be included in the mythological-inspired MOBA Smite in 2014. It was thought that the name was added to the Wikipedia article in response to the anime Symphogear, which aired in 2012. In the series, the titular Symphogear - armor worn by the characters - are named after various figures and items from various pantheons. Among the names was イチイバル, romanized in official material as Ichaival, which often took the form of two crossbows. That being said, there was nothing in the show that suggested a connection to the god Odin. The only documented use of the name イチイバル prior to Symphogear was the 1996 Super Famicom game Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War - a game that heavily references Irish and Norse mythology. In the game, イチイバル, romanized by official Japanese media as Ichii-bal, was a bow originally belonging to a woman named ウル, officially romanized as Ulir. This name ウル is commonly used in regards to Norse mythology for the name of the afforementioned god of archery, Ullr. In fact, when this character had her name officially localized to languages beyond Japanese in July of 2021, her name was localized as Ullr. So then what is actually going on with the name イチイバル? Frankly speaking, it's not Norse in origin. It's a wonder it took so long for people to figure that out. Rather, the name combines イチイ, the Japanese word for a yew tree, and what is likely meant to be a rendering of the English word "vale". The name's official localization to English in 2013 was Yewfelle, which is speculated to be the word yew next to a corruption of the word valley, vale, or the French vallée. The truth of this name lies both in the very myths of the achery god himself, and those false claims of 2013. As mentioned in that fateful Wikipedia edit, Ullr's home was called Ýdalir. When translated from Old Norse to English, Ýdalir means "yew-dales". イチイバル is just an obtuse rendering of Ýdalir (more commonly ユーダリル), once used as the name of a fictional bow carried by a woman named after the inhabitant of Ýdalir, that managed to be randomly adopted by an anime seventeen years later, then erroneously stated to have originated in Norse myth on Wikipedia another year after that. And we still have no idea why it was attributed to Odin in the first place.
@@qoombert I don't get it either, but all Japaneses sources I've seen for Symphogear state that Ichaival is the official romanization. Perhaps it was their attempt to make the name seem more foreign and not just their word for a yew tree?
Welsh Wikipedia is full of lies. It said there was this place called “Port Talbot” but turns out it’s just a set for some post-apocalypse movie. Really immersive to be fair.
I am not surprised, Paradox do a massive amount of background research but since CK2 is in a huge area they can't actually dig through all the sources so things like this are sometimes wrong. The spelling error shows us they checked Wikipedia but not the source material.
"One of the problems of relying on community moderation, is that that community needs to exist." - That's a great way of defining the no.1 problem with Wikipedia. You need people who "know" to check and re-check Wiki articles; if such people are absent, some can post any kind of BS on that page.
The fact the Crusader Kings II typo could only have been made by looking at wikipedia and not checking the source (insofar as that being the advice my teachers had back in school) is up there with the author who looked up how to make colour dye and wrote what he found in a TLoZ: Breath Of The Wild tips and tricks article 🤣
I had the same advice in school lol, it seems to have done me some good at least. I'll have to read some more about that author, that sounds like such a strange mistake to make!
To be fair to the CK developers, they had to put together data on thousands of rulers and political entities stretching from Iceland to India. I can’t blame them for not verifying the academic sources for each minor noble, since this would have added a lot of extra hours to the project, and I imagine their bosses had other priorities.
@@napoleonfeanorIt was from the novel “A Traveller at the Gates of Wisdom” by John Boyne (author of “The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas”). Despite being set in the 5th Century Hun Empire and not in Hyrule, it lists such ingredients as keese wing, silent princess, Hylian shrooms, octorok eyeball and lizalfos tail.
If Iololol were alive today, he'd be the Chuck Norris of destructive Wikipedia contributions. Thank you for the video. (I'm looking forward to your next one: _"How a Mysterious UA-cam Comment Led to Me Killing People with a Rock."_ )
Well said! If even a dead Iolo (or Trollo, at this point) made such a mess of Wikipedia articles about Wales, what havoc would a living one make with a Wikipedia account? Also, what's with that comment?
@@CambrianChronicles I wonder if the reason he decided to forge so many things was because he had spent so much time finding everything, he'd lose face if he announced that he ended up with nothing so as an obsessive nut with an intellectual's ego, Iolo eventually decided to solve the issue by forging everything by mixing different truths and lies. Must have been a very smart fella to make such convincing claims without being outed by his peers. I actually think this issue is more common than people might think (the fact that an expert "faked" something just to satisfy themselves).
@@kbye2321 "British Goblins" is a book referenced in another video on this channel: "The Internet's Flag that Doesn't Exist." Either you missed the in-joke or I misunderstand your comment.
@@CambrianChronicles Damm gota say this is way more inportant than court this vid is god damm awesome dont know why but it is. But please atend court you dont wana lose.
@@CambrianChroniclesat least, you are not fully cut off from the world as jury in the UK like most places in America do. On the other hand, American courts cannot ban and arrest journalists for reporting on a trial. I'm surprised one is allowed to have a smartphone as juror while the trial is active
As usual, I found this quite informative! Now, I've learned what "Teyrnllwg" is: a nickname for a ruler (spelled "Deyrnllwg" or "Dyrnlluc", or "Gleaming-Hilt") turned into a large "lost kingdom" in Chester by Iolo Morganwg, then later turned into an "older name" for Powys. It kind of reminds me of "Anwn Ddu", the subject the first video I watched from you: another non-existent aspect of medieval Welsh history created from messing with the spelling of pre-existing words, involving Iolo the forger, leading to an unsuspecting Wikipedia editor adding it in. As another Wikipedia editor, I appreciate your fact-checking. Thanks for making this video!
The takeaway from this video is not that you can't trust Wikipedia, it's that you can't 'trust' anything. Not Wikipedia, not old books, not academic journals or any other citation. Unless you've investigated the primary source yourself, you can't ever know for certain.
This channel is quickly becoming one of my favorite history channels on youtube. Super high quality content about one specific and fairly niche topic, but I'm all here for it.
this is probably one of my favorite channels on the internet :) as someone who's partially deaf, the cited captions are extremely helpful to interpret of the weird welsh names and the ever-increasing bits of lore that pop up in these videos :) time to add a divorce timeline to my cambrian chronicles lore book
I am autistic and grew up in a country where there are (usually translated to another official language) subtitles on TV, now I switch on English/Chinese subtitles for as many videos as I can.
Within the first hour of its posting all references to Teyrnllwg were removed and even in the talk page you were referenced as a well researched video. I don’t know if you already knew this but I think that it is nice to see how fast people act Also Good luck with the hearing
I discovered this channel kinda recently and my goodness I love it so much. I've always loved history (my college major is in history), but I never realized just how fascinating Welsh history is. It actually prompted me to pick up this book I found at the library called Spindle and Dagger, which is historical fiction about a king of Powys, funnily enough. It was a good book and while I cannot vouch for the historical accuracy, the author seemed to know what they were doing well enough. Have a nice day!!
Edward Williams is the best jumpcut ever. "Well clearly its the guy this whole video has been about, whos portrait youve left on screen next to two other guys and said "three men"... Wait that was bai-- oh."
Bro’s approach to finding topics to peruse in Welsh history is frankly how I sniff out royal trivia, history and scandal. You all laugh, but it works Also, someone (literally today) has removed the typo. Evidently things spread quickly. And as to CKII, that Welsh typo is not even one of the most egregious things from the content provided in the DLCs that allow for earlier start date. Like, the older Hungary’s for example are *ATROCIOUS*
@@MichaelMiller-tm2os It’s not necessarily that they site plausible literature or scholarship for their set ups, or incorporate mythology (with AC does to enhance and the world and nobody blinks because that’s just what they do), it’s just that they ignore real, genuine history of the time. Like portraying late 8th century Hungary as this savage, unorganized place filled with Turkic pagans even though the region is actually thought to have spoken a Slavic tongue and was already quite Christian, and the earliest start date still takes places before the predecessors ethnic Hungarians actually moved into the region in the 9th century.
@@Edmonton-of2ec That's why you don't get your hopes up on corporations running after a quick buck but the community. There was one mod called HIstorical Immersion Project that greatly reduces the type of thing that you complain about. And they even removed the Charlemagne start date, left the 9th century one and made it three times better and more authentic and then put up a giant disclaimer that there is a lack of historical sources for half of the map.
This isn't directly related to this exact topic but I couldn't help but think just How crazy easy it could be for things to get lost in history, in time.
@@CambrianChronicles It's actually such a trip to contemplate this. Can you even imagine what was lost just from The Burning of The Library of Alexandria?
@@benmcreynolds8581far less than people think. It already was very much in disrepair and there are many legends about it and how either the Romans, Christians or Muslims destroyed the rest.
Oooohhhhhhh that makes so much more sense, I spent ages trying to find what that was and missed it entirely lol. Confirms that it was from Myv Arch at least then!
12:40 Your sense of humour is magnificent, the timing, delivery - trully excellent. I love your videos, they are interesting and very pleasurable to watch:)
Man, I adore your editing so much, and the humour is really great too! But most of all, I appreciate your efforts to forge a better understanding of Welsh history, and provide a place for the community the topic to grow.
I rarely do so but just wanted to leave a comment of aprreciation. It is not everyday that one stumbles upon a great channel concerning an absolutely niche thing that interests them (at least in my country, I'd guess Welsh history is a bit less niche in Wales and UK) that is at the same time a shining example of amateur quality which many big media companies could only envy. I've just watched four videos while at night shift, subsribed and just getting ready to binge watch all that I can tonight. Kudos to you!
I know this channel mostly focuses on Wales, but I would love to see some videos about the other lost kingdoms of sub-roman Britain, such as Dumnonia and the later Cornwall, or Rheged, Elmet, and Alt Clud -> Strathclyde. Other fun topics may be about the speculations about the Briton or Romano-Briton origin of the House of Wessex (Cerdic, Cynric, and all the other oddly Brythonic sounding early monarchs of Wessex). How Deira and Bernicia may have originally been British kingdoms usurped by a Germanic elite, or how the Kingdom of Mercia was oddly Brythonic in its start what with the border people mingling more than a bit, and even allying at times with the Welsh against fellow Anglo-Saxons. Alls to say, I love the content, keep doing what you are doing, not demanding anything, just giving suggestions!
Awesome video. The same problems are faced by other niche interests on Wikipedia. I have seen it numerous times in articles on myriapodology (the study of millipedes and centipedes).
At this point, it might be a good idea to do an investigation into the life of Iolo in order to find and root out any other misinformation that could possibly have lived on to this day.
UA-cam and its content creators are amazing. The history is good the script engaging, the music is well done and the video style is fantastic given that there are no moving images. Well done
In Chinese history, there are also many cases of forgotten kingdoms. Ancient imperial scholars recorded many cases when so and so Kingdom came to pay tribute, after which they vanish from history without a trace. Some are straight up mythological and strange, like the ancient Xia or the foreign realms described in the Shanhaijing
I love your videos' unique editing style and that they're some of the most concise and informative about niche topics like this. Not to mention the strange-at-best humor that displays clearly that you're the type of person to do inhuman amounts of research into what amounts to a single word on a page most people would read and not give a second thought. Hope you get everything in the divorce!
I just started playing Crusader Kings II last week. I didn’t expect it to be mentioned in this video. Lol. This is a very good video. I like that you take the time to research and correct mistakes on Wikipedia.
How do you keep finding fascinating welsh historical mysteries?! That sounds so incredibly niche and yet you manage to make fascinating investigations into more than I ever would've guessed!
These videos are balanced between super interesting story and well crafted video editing. I really enjoy this. I am a blacksmith and interested in history, could you do a video on forgingin welsh history at some point?
its interesting seeing people being surprised by the appearance of CK2 in the video because as soon as you explained what was going on I thought to myself "This video will end on a CK screenshot, isn't it". Especially because that's the only reason I know of Powys
I love your videos, and the lengths you go to to get to the bottom of things. Which part of Powys are you from? Old kingdom of Powys, or modern country of Powys, as they’re vastly different areas, as I know you are aware. I’m a proud Powys man, although I’m from the old kingdom of Buellt. Which is a kingdom I can find very little information on, it often appears on maps and the like as it’s own medieval kingdom, even though it’s tiny. Would love to see a video about that 👀
Amazing video. Ty for all this dedication and effort. History takes loooooooots of reading. And you did. You commited to go beyond "formal history" would go. So far, you've beeen amazing describing other historic periods. Please never stop.
I want to say that you've made me very interested in the history of the British Isles as a whole, and for that, I thank you, and wish you all the best.
This channel is one of my favourite up and coming youtube channels. Never been more interested in welsh history as i currently am. I love how you arent just regurgitating "pop history", and instead actually read and cite actual historical text with the depth they deserve.
The Crusader Kings 2 connection is fascinating! It reminds me of an incident where a Wikipedia user made up a fictional system of naval ranks and ship classifications for the medieval Indian Chola Empire, and one of those made-up ship classes ended up being included in the Dynasties of India expansion for Age of Empires 2.
Ah I'd heard about that, do you know if they ever corrected it? Unlike CKII it seems that Age of Empires 2 still gets their developer's attention
What about Fire Emblem 4 inventing a Norse weapon, knowing it was a fake, but because all the others in the game were based on real mythological Norse weapons, people who played the game assumed it was a real weapon they just hadn't heard of before, and it ended up on Wikipedia articles about Norse mythology, where other games ended up adding it.
@@CambrianChronicles Pretty sure the CK2 dev cycle is over because CK3 has been released. Could be wrong though.
@@CambrianChronicles The ship in question remains in the game, though at least one of the responsible Developers has given a statement on that mistake (it's kind of lackluster)
I assume it will remain in place, unless a big stink is raised, but aoe has had some "controversies" since then.
(The aoe 2 community seems to simply want to complain, i count myself as in their ranks, thouhh is dislike this tendency for negativity) Overall, there are a number of historical inaccuracies and anachronisms in aoe2, that i suspect will remain in the game for the forseeable future, though i suppose game balance is weighted higher than historical accuracy with it being a competetive game, afterall, i don't recall mayans and Celts or romans and Bengalis ever facing off on the battlefield.
I actually still play ck2
I love how this channel's editing is becoming progressively more unhinged as you uncover that Iolo is seemingly behind every minor errors on welsh wikipedia, in the most pointless machiavelic plot
I want a whole episode on this guy
This seems ripe for a crossover with Thoughty2.
@@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis seriously, that guy? the guy who barely researches his topics beyond a surface level?
@@slwrabbits I really want to know what compelled this man to forge so much medieval history.
@@thezipcreator finally someone says it. He just looks smart, but he's clueless about everything, and doesn't care at all about the authenticity of his sources as long as he gets views
The video: a well edited reminder not to blindly trust Wikipedia.
The comments: "No, I'm not actually getting divorced."
Duality of man
Where's that comment
This is much more complicated than simple or obvious vandalism. It's actually far more chilling to me that a mistake like this - an unintended one it seems - can take years to spot and remove. Since editors are usually not bonafide experts in what they write or read or copy edit.
It gave a warning at the top of the page anywaysa
@@Godophugawa😮
Probably the best relaxing-to-entertaining ratio of any history channel right now
Thank you very much!
@@CambrianChronicles You’re welcome, Cambrian Chronicles™️
I second this.
Both being relaxing and being entretaining are good, so, let's say that this chanel has r=100 and e=100, then the ratio would be r/e=1, but uf it were a bad chanel, and both r and e were 1, the ratio would still be 1. This ratio tells you basically nothing.
@@juanignaciolopeztellechea9401
🤓☝️”Uhm, aktually. The measurement you used does not adequately explain your critical opinion on the quality of the subject matter.”
Craziest thing about this is the fact that the crusader kings people were using the wikipedia page as their sole source for that part of the game lmao
Another commenter mentioned that apparently that expansion is notorious for poor sourcing, I don't know much about it unfortunately
@@CambrianChronicles Yes the Charlemagne bookmark is infamous for it. Most of the characters on the map are essentially made up. The sad thing is that given how well documented (relatively speaking) Wales is in terms of dynastic history they made this sort of error.
Yeah I remember a similar thing happened where someone made up a whole fleet of fake Chola navy ships and an Age of Empires game included them.
i'm pretty sure that they've done that for like every historical character at least in ck2 and ck3 because there's a little icon that's like "historical character" and if you click on it it just brings you to their wikipedia page
@@junipre985still just wikipedia
"This is wrong in two ways. Firstly, no it doesn't." I respect you for not just leaving it there.
Always got to dive deep and find the inevitable Victorian-hoax answer.
Ironically I don't where the user originally got the Annales Cambriae from
I read your comment as he spoke it 🤯🤯
I'm currently playing EU4, produced by the same creators as Crusader Kings II, and I have just rerleased Wales in my game. The ruler it generated is 'Duke Cynan Ternyllwg' so it looks as though the error is safely stored in the Paradox name list.
Oh wow I had no idea, wish I could've included that now, thanks for sharing!
This video reminds me of the CGP Grey video "Someone Dead Ruined My Life… Again." where Mr. Grey describes one of the rabbit holes he went down looking for the first use of the name "Tiffany," that led to a dead end after months of research.
I was thinking the same thing! Darned Victorians with their remarkably lax historiography standards.
Yeah dude we all saw that video
@@GameyRaccoonstop being stuck a stick in the mud 🤦♀️
@@GameyRaccoonFalse. I didn't :P
@@BrooksMoses It's still better than the ancient world standard of "Trust me bro."
Cambrian over here has been upping the humor each video without compromising the educational value. You love to see it
Haha thank you, I'm glad you liked it!
I hope you'll get along fine with Ordovician
The perpetuation of misinformation because of Crusader Kings II was not the finale I expected, but if it isn't a scenario I'm strangely familiar with. On December 16th, 2013, an edit was made to the Wikipedia article "List of mythological objects" that claimed that Ichaival was the name of a bow wielded by the Norse god Odin. The editor claimed that a second source stated this bow came from the land of Ýdalir, home of the god of skiing and archery Ullr. The edit also described the bow as being able to release ten arrows when using just one. This addition had no source to either of their sources. This false claim would remain until 2018, well after the name would be included in the mythological-inspired MOBA Smite in 2014.
It was thought that the name was added to the Wikipedia article in response to the anime Symphogear, which aired in 2012. In the series, the titular Symphogear - armor worn by the characters - are named after various figures and items from various pantheons. Among the names was イチイバル, romanized in official material as Ichaival, which often took the form of two crossbows. That being said, there was nothing in the show that suggested a connection to the god Odin.
The only documented use of the name イチイバル prior to Symphogear was the 1996 Super Famicom game Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War - a game that heavily references Irish and Norse mythology. In the game, イチイバル, romanized by official Japanese media as Ichii-bal, was a bow originally belonging to a woman named ウル, officially romanized as Ulir. This name ウル is commonly used in regards to Norse mythology for the name of the afforementioned god of archery, Ullr. In fact, when this character had her name officially localized to languages beyond Japanese in July of 2021, her name was localized as Ullr.
So then what is actually going on with the name イチイバル? Frankly speaking, it's not Norse in origin. It's a wonder it took so long for people to figure that out. Rather, the name combines イチイ, the Japanese word for a yew tree, and what is likely meant to be a rendering of the English word "vale". The name's official localization to English in 2013 was Yewfelle, which is speculated to be the word yew next to a corruption of the word valley, vale, or the French vallée.
The truth of this name lies both in the very myths of the achery god himself, and those false claims of 2013. As mentioned in that fateful Wikipedia edit, Ullr's home was called Ýdalir. When translated from Old Norse to English, Ýdalir means "yew-dales". イチイバル is just an obtuse rendering of Ýdalir (more commonly ユーダリル), once used as the name of a fictional bow carried by a woman named after the inhabitant of Ýdalir, that managed to be randomly adopted by an anime seventeen years later, then erroneously stated to have originated in Norse myth on Wikipedia another year after that.
And we still have no idea why it was attributed to Odin in the first place.
Wasn't expecting Symphogear to come up here lol. That's a fun example.
i wonder if they thought "fell" sounded better, despite its rather opposite meaning of upland, hill, etc.
@@jaehaerys48Is the anime good?
ichaival? the katakana says i-ti(chi)-i-ba-ru (ichival), if it was ichaival, it would have been イチァイバル
@@qoombert I don't get it either, but all Japaneses sources I've seen for Symphogear state that Ichaival is the official romanization. Perhaps it was their attempt to make the name seem more foreign and not just their word for a yew tree?
Welsh Wikipedia is full of lies. It said there was this place called “Port Talbot” but turns out it’s just a set for some post-apocalypse movie. Really immersive to be fair.
The Government is trying to convince you that Port Talbot is real. It isn't, its just a conspiracy by Mr Talbot himself
The Scots Wikipedia had an American teenager who didn’t speak the language who created around 27,000 articles. Actually insane stuff.
@@hbdragon88 I heard about that. Was that on NationSquids YT channel by any chance?
@@CambrianChronicles john talbot
If you read the talk page of any of these articles they are really salty about being called out by this channel lol
"My divorce hearing" 💀
XD
Best opening of one of these vids so far
Right? Hell of a way to kick things off.
To be fair I wouldn't call it much of a "hearing" since I wasn't listening to anything
@@CambrianChronicles Dude . . . you're an absolute legend.
0:03 Hell of a way to start a video
Now I didn't expect Crusader Kings 2 of all things to be brought up in this story
Why? It came to my minf when i saw his first video
I am not surprised, Paradox do a massive amount of background research but since CK2 is in a huge area they can't actually dig through all the sources so things like this are sometimes wrong. The spelling error shows us they checked Wikipedia but not the source material.
I'm more surprised it hasn't come up sooner
@@iaobtc yeah exactly
It's literally the first thing that came to mind when he said that I'd probably not heard of Powys.
"One of the problems of relying on community moderation, is that that community needs to exist." - That's a great way of defining the no.1 problem with Wikipedia. You need people who "know" to check and re-check Wiki articles; if such people are absent, some can post any kind of BS on that page.
There are some people who wreck pages just for fun.
Iolo Morganwg forging documents: "This is going to fuck up so many Wikipedia pages"
You know you're in for a wild ride when Iolo Morganwg is in the thumbnail
We keep seeing Iolo and having to restrain ourselves from jokingly referencing Ultima.
Can I have £100?
To go around and find ancient manuscripts?
Of course...
[ actually forges medieval chronicles like a boss ]
Victorian scammer final boss
@@CambrianChroniclescan you imagine the availability of human bones in the middle ages? I would have been drinking well of all my "relic" money.
😎
At 7:17, I audibly groaned “oh no!” This about someone I had never heard of before your Anwn Ddu video.
Glad to have you invested!
I honestly can’t believe you don’t have a whole video dedicated to Iolo Morganwg shenanigans
The way you find inconsistencies and address them... You could be talking about anything, this channel'll always be a treat. Cheers to you.
channel'll lol. I'm keeping it.
Thank you, I'm glad you're enjoying the video!
The fact the Crusader Kings II typo could only have been made by looking at wikipedia and not checking the source (insofar as that being the advice my teachers had back in school) is up there with the author who looked up how to make colour dye and wrote what he found in a TLoZ: Breath Of The Wild tips and tricks article 🤣
I had the same advice in school lol, it seems to have done me some good at least. I'll have to read some more about that author, that sounds like such a strange mistake to make!
Who did the Zelda one? I hope the same person isn't trying to float through holding a chicken over his head
To be fair to the CK developers, they had to put together data on thousands of rulers and political entities stretching from Iceland to India. I can’t blame them for not verifying the academic sources for each minor noble, since this would have added a lot of extra hours to the project, and I imagine their bosses had other priorities.
@@napoleonfeanorIt was from the novel “A Traveller at the Gates of Wisdom” by John Boyne (author of “The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas”). Despite being set in the 5th Century Hun Empire and not in Hyrule, it lists such ingredients as keese wing, silent princess, Hylian shrooms, octorok eyeball and lizalfos tail.
@@KorKhan89 Nice homage. Only heard about the author because there was some controversy about his holocaust novel.
If Iololol were alive today, he'd be the Chuck Norris of destructive Wikipedia contributions. Thank you for the video. (I'm looking forward to your next one: _"How a Mysterious UA-cam Comment Led to Me Killing People with a Rock."_ )
Sounds like the final video in some ARG lol
Well said! If even a dead Iolo (or Trollo, at this point) made such a mess of Wikipedia articles about Wales, what havoc would a living one make with a Wikipedia account?
Also, what's with that comment?
@@Hand-in-Shot_ProductionsAbout 2/3 way, one of the cutaway edits was a screenshot of a comment asking for a video of CC killing people with a rock.
@@jaegrant6441 entering the chronicles slasher era
@@CambrianChronicles I wonder if the reason he decided to forge so many things was because he had spent so much time finding everything, he'd lose face if he announced that he ended up with nothing so as an obsessive nut with an intellectual's ego, Iolo eventually decided to solve the issue by forging everything by mixing different truths and lies. Must have been a very smart fella to make such convincing claims without being outed by his peers. I actually think this issue is more common than people might think (the fact that an expert "faked" something just to satisfy themselves).
7:07 "they finally cite a comprehensible source, and it's a surprising one."
Me: "British Goblins? It had better be British Goblins."
British Goblins deep dive coming someday
Please god I want the British goblins
British Goblin? My ass.
@@kbye2321 "British Goblins" is a book referenced in another video on this channel: "The Internet's Flag that Doesn't Exist." Either you missed the in-joke or I misunderstand your comment.
@@AngerAndScience …it’s a dirty joke.
SIR DOES ANY PART OF WALES ACTUALLY EXIST OR IS IT ALL LOST/FORGOTTEN/A HOAX?
Nope, not even me, I'm just a vivid hallucination
@@CambrianChronicles I knew it was too good to be true
@@CambrianChroniclesdamn you fooled me
nothing that is worth any money because the English robed everything worth having, just like they do to every other country they visit!
A bad dream in which everyone be hanging out the back of farm yard animals.
Bro browsed Wikipedia at his court lol
Tried to during jury duty but apparently that was "inappropriate" so I had to wait
Man didn't let the haters get to him 🤣
Many such cases
@@CambrianChronicles Damm gota say this is way more inportant than court this vid is god damm awesome dont know why but it is.
But please atend court you dont wana lose.
@@CambrianChroniclesat least, you are not fully cut off from the world as jury in the UK like most places in America do. On the other hand, American courts cannot ban and arrest journalists for reporting on a trial. I'm surprised one is allowed to have a smartphone as juror while the trial is active
"Never heard of it? That's okay, it hasn't heard of you either."
This slayed me! Awesome deadpan delivery, these always come so unexpectedly even though I know he fires these off regularly 😂
I just saw you posted this and said OUT LOUD "Ohh yes new Cambrian Chronicles". You have me trained
Finally my Cambrian Chronicles Sleeper Cell programme is working!
You've been Pavlov'd by Cambrain Chronicles!
As usual, I found this quite informative! Now, I've learned what "Teyrnllwg" is: a nickname for a ruler (spelled "Deyrnllwg" or "Dyrnlluc", or "Gleaming-Hilt") turned into a large "lost kingdom" in Chester by Iolo Morganwg, then later turned into an "older name" for Powys.
It kind of reminds me of "Anwn Ddu", the subject the first video I watched from you: another non-existent aspect of medieval Welsh history created from messing with the spelling of pre-existing words, involving Iolo the forger, leading to an unsuspecting Wikipedia editor adding it in.
As another Wikipedia editor, I appreciate your fact-checking. Thanks for making this video!
In the year 2124, in a hyper-net hologram essay: How the ancient youtuber Cambrian Chronicles fabricated all of Welsh history.
The takeaway from this video is not that you can't trust Wikipedia, it's that you can't 'trust' anything. Not Wikipedia, not old books, not academic journals or any other citation. Unless you've investigated the primary source yourself, you can't ever know for certain.
This channel is quickly becoming one of my favorite history channels on youtube. Super high quality content about one specific and fairly niche topic, but I'm all here for it.
this is probably one of my favorite channels on the internet :) as someone who's partially deaf, the cited captions are extremely helpful to interpret of the weird welsh names and the ever-increasing bits of lore that pop up in these videos :) time to add a divorce timeline to my cambrian chronicles lore book
Thank you! I always use captions, so I try to make them good on my video, helps people with unfamiliar names too like you said!
I am autistic and grew up in a country where there are (usually translated to another official language) subtitles on TV, now I switch on English/Chinese subtitles for as many videos as I can.
Within the first hour of its posting all references to Teyrnllwg were removed and even in the talk page you were referenced as a well researched video. I don’t know if you already knew this but I think that it is nice to see how fast people act
Also Good luck with the hearing
Ohh good to hear that, thanks for sharing that info. I was wondering about that.
Powisorum Rex sounds like the name of some obscure dinosaur
A dinosaur that lived primarily off leeks
Many geological timescales are named after Welsh tribes
Pantydraco is an obscure Welsh dinosaur.
@@vincentvangoatse2962, I assume that it lived off of leaks because they're a symbol of Wales. In that case, that's a clever reply!
Karl is another name for an obscure Dinosaur.
0:11 oh my I have to remember this line this is brilliant
Haha thank you
How coincidental! I'm watching this during my divorce hearing!
Soon it will be mandatory watching in court
LOL for both of you, y'all funny :D
Oh! You were the guy held in contempt!
I discovered this channel kinda recently and my goodness I love it so much. I've always loved history (my college major is in history), but I never realized just how fascinating Welsh history is. It actually prompted me to pick up this book I found at the library called Spindle and Dagger, which is historical fiction about a king of Powys, funnily enough. It was a good book and while I cannot vouch for the historical accuracy, the author seemed to know what they were doing well enough. Have a nice day!!
Sorry to hear about the divorce. Hope you're doing okay
Don't worry I am unable to actually get a divorce since i need to be married first apparently
@@CambrianChroniclesunbelievable!! the legal system is so messed up
@@CambrianChronicles That's discrimination!
@@CambrianChronicles 🤔
@@CambrianChronicles Hoaxes within hoaxes
This Iolo guy is just a straight up menace
He did good things too. And his legacy on Welsh culture is significant.
his legacy on Welsh culture is significant, but the damage he did to Welsh historiography can't be ignored
He decided that Yolo.
The thing is, he must have been absolutely brilliantly talented. Making convincing forgeries is not a trivial task.
Well, as he might have said, “I only live once.”
Came for the nice thumbnail stayed for the killer transitions
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!
Edward Williams is the best jumpcut ever.
"Well clearly its the guy this whole video has been about, whos portrait youve left on screen next to two other guys and said "three men"... Wait that was bai-- oh."
Bro’s approach to finding topics to peruse in Welsh history is frankly how I sniff out royal trivia, history and scandal. You all laugh, but it works
Also, someone (literally today) has removed the typo. Evidently things spread quickly.
And as to CKII, that Welsh typo is not even one of the most egregious things from the content provided in the DLCs that allow for earlier start date. Like, the older Hungary’s for example are *ATROCIOUS*
Yeah! In Assassin's Creed Odyssey you can visit Atlantis which I am 60% sure wasn't a real place.
Is this the same thing? I am very old.
@@MichaelMiller-tm2os It’s not necessarily that they site plausible literature or scholarship for their set ups, or incorporate mythology (with AC does to enhance and the world and nobody blinks because that’s just what they do), it’s just that they ignore real, genuine history of the time. Like portraying late 8th century Hungary as this savage, unorganized place filled with Turkic pagans even though the region is actually thought to have spoken a Slavic tongue and was already quite Christian, and the earliest start date still takes places before the predecessors ethnic Hungarians actually moved into the region in the 9th century.
@@Edmonton-of2ec That's why you don't get your hopes up on corporations running after a quick buck but the community. There was one mod called HIstorical Immersion Project that greatly reduces the type of thing that you complain about. And they even removed the Charlemagne start date, left the 9th century one and made it three times better and more authentic and then put up a giant disclaimer that there is a lack of historical sources for half of the map.
This isn't directly related to this exact topic but I couldn't help but think just How crazy easy it could be for things to get lost in history, in time.
It's very easy, the majority of human existence isn't recorded, and we've even lost plenty of things just over the past few centuries!
@@CambrianChronicles It's actually such a trip to contemplate this. Can you even imagine what was lost just from The Burning of The Library of Alexandria?
@@benmcreynolds8581far less than people think. It already was very much in disrepair and there are many legends about it and how either the Romans, Christians or Muslims destroyed the rest.
Dawg wtf is that opening 😭
mans gotta find a way to stave off bordem
Getting married and divorced once a week is a common hobby amongst me and myself
@@CambrianChroniclesyour divorce lawyer must love you, both of you.
6:35 on page 119, Gunn (1819) says some O. Pughe gave him a manuscript (MS). Have we come full circle twice (William Owen Pughe) ?
Oooohhhhhhh that makes so much more sense, I spent ages trying to find what that was and missed it entirely lol.
Confirms that it was from Myv Arch at least then!
This comment should be pinned
the jon bois editing style is so compelling for some reason
12:40 Your sense of humour is magnificent, the timing, delivery - trully excellent. I love your videos, they are interesting and very pleasurable to watch:)
Amazing work as always! I've posted on the article's talk page about this vid, hopefully they should fix the issue on the article.
Thank you, it seems to have already been removed!
The use of the really obscure transitions is brilliant. I didn't even know there was a bird transition
The bird transition is my personal favourite!
All your videos are so elegantly made, I didn't realise you were using PowerPoint until the origami transition at 9:23!
Only that part is in PowerPoint lol, although the older videos did use it a lot more!
He is back!!!! Always a good day when you post
Thank you, I hope you enjoyed it!
Man, I adore your editing so much, and the humour is really great too! But most of all, I appreciate your efforts to forge a better understanding of Welsh history, and provide a place for the community the topic to grow.
Thank you very much!
Edward Williams really said "YOLO" and forged welsh history
and the consequences still resurface to this day...
I rarely do so but just wanted to leave a comment of aprreciation. It is not everyday that one stumbles upon a great channel concerning an absolutely niche thing that interests them (at least in my country, I'd guess Welsh history is a bit less niche in Wales and UK) that is at the same time a shining example of amateur quality which many big media companies could only envy. I've just watched four videos while at night shift, subsribed and just getting ready to binge watch all that I can tonight. Kudos to you!
Iolo Morganwg is probably Cambrian Chronicle's arch nemesis
I know this channel mostly focuses on Wales, but I would love to see some videos about the other lost kingdoms of sub-roman Britain, such as Dumnonia and the later Cornwall, or Rheged, Elmet, and Alt Clud -> Strathclyde.
Other fun topics may be about the speculations about the Briton or Romano-Briton origin of the House of Wessex (Cerdic, Cynric, and all the other oddly Brythonic sounding early monarchs of Wessex). How Deira and Bernicia may have originally been British kingdoms usurped by a Germanic elite, or how the Kingdom of Mercia was oddly Brythonic in its start what with the border people mingling more than a bit, and even allying at times with the Welsh against fellow Anglo-Saxons.
Alls to say, I love the content, keep doing what you are doing, not demanding anything, just giving suggestions!
Awesome video. The same problems are faced by other niche interests on Wikipedia. I have seen it numerous times in articles on myriapodology (the study of millipedes and centipedes).
9:23 he started getting funky with the transitions
Bird & paper aeroplane should be required in all videos I think
@@CambrianChronicles classic elementary school philosophy, very hard to argue against
At this point, it might be a good idea to do an investigation into the life of Iolo in order to find and root out any other misinformation that could possibly have lived on to this day.
And now there’s a huge talk section on the article talking about this video, with some significant changes. Well done
Thank you for continuing to put out the best content on UA-cam. And, if I may overstep, please keep going
Thank you very much, there’s a lot more to come!
These videos are some of my favorite on videos.
Please continue making them.
Ey, Did the greatest UA-cam Channel just post? Me thinks it has.
Thank you!
The way English writes its uppercase letters it really makes the name Iolo look hilariously confusing 💀
It's almost like he was a time travelling troll haha.
I really REALLY hate how most fonts write capital i the same way as lowercase L
The fact that one of the most notorious forgers was named Iolo is absolutely hilarious.
I appreciate all the weird things you stumble upon and decide to share
Thank you, they're my favourite things to talk about
I also applaud the opening,
On another note, I think the world needs a whole movie about Iolo.
UA-cam and its content creators are amazing. The history is good the script engaging, the music is well done and the video style is fantastic given that there are no moving images.
Well done
I LOVE GOOGLE EARTH ANIMATION I LOVE HOW THE 3D TRANSITIONS ARE SMOOTH AND USES DEPTH ILLUSIONS
THANK YOU I'M GLAD TO HEAR! DEFINITELY CHECK OUT JON BOIS AS HE PIONEERED THE STYLE AND IS MUCH BETTER AT IT THAN ANYONE ELSE!
Your video editing style reminds me of Jon Bois in the best way and I love that a channel combines fascinating history with that kind of video style
In Chinese history, there are also many cases of forgotten kingdoms. Ancient imperial scholars recorded many cases when so and so Kingdom came to pay tribute, after which they vanish from history without a trace. Some are straight up mythological and strange, like the ancient Xia or the foreign realms described in the Shanhaijing
I love your videos' unique editing style and that they're some of the most concise and informative about niche topics like this. Not to mention the strange-at-best humor that displays clearly that you're the type of person to do inhuman amounts of research into what amounts to a single word on a page most people would read and not give a second thought. Hope you get everything in the divorce!
Appreciate these in-depth investigations doing the leg work of historical research few other channels do
What software did you use to make the first cinematic of the video (the one with the wikipedia page of Kingdom of Powys being "rendered in 3D")?
Google Earth following this tutorial: ua-cam.com/video/MfM7cqOlgds/v-deo.htmlsi=pT0Sus3zFuiw6Zhx
I just started playing Crusader Kings II last week. I didn’t expect it to be mentioned in this video. Lol. This is a very good video. I like that you take the time to research and correct mistakes on Wikipedia.
How do you keep finding fascinating welsh historical mysteries?! That sounds so incredibly niche and yet you manage to make fascinating investigations into more than I ever would've guessed!
You have got to have some of the best storytelling and comedic timing on this whole website
Haha thank you, I appreciate that!
Fantastic work again. Easily some of the best historical content available.
Thank you very much!
These videos are balanced between super interesting story and well crafted video editing. I really enjoy this. I am a blacksmith and interested in history, could you do a video on forgingin welsh history at some point?
That sounds interesting, I want to cover medieval weapons in Wales someday, so I can see if we have much info on their forging
I was not expecting to be so enthralled by this video, but damn this was great. Love the broccumentary-style editing, but with the bonus flair. ❤
its interesting seeing people being surprised by the appearance of CK2 in the video because as soon as you explained what was going on I thought to myself "This video will end on a CK screenshot, isn't it". Especially because that's the only reason I know of Powys
thanks for your videos, they fascinate me and teach me so much about countries i’ve never been to.
“The land was said to be from Chester, all the way up to Cumbria”
Elmet: “Am I a joke to you?”
Apparently! He doesn't mention it in the Principle Territories at all
@@CambrianChronicles yeah that’s insane. I know Bede mentioned Elmet but did Nennius?
Do you have any plans to edit or request an edit of the Wikipedia page?
I live in Wales. Your channel is required watching.
Diolch!
I live in Minnesota, and it is required watching.
I'm from Cumbria. How do you say Wales in Welsh? Cambrian also has a link.❤
I love your videos, and the lengths you go to to get to the bottom of things. Which part of Powys are you from? Old kingdom of Powys, or modern country of Powys, as they’re vastly different areas, as I know you are aware. I’m a proud Powys man, although I’m from the old kingdom of Buellt. Which is a kingdom I can find very little information on, it often appears on maps and the like as it’s own medieval kingdom, even though it’s tiny. Would love to see a video about that 👀
Cambrian Chronicles entering his Joker arc reading Wikipedia entries for anything not taught in middle school history
Good content as always, but Im curious as to what programs you use to make these videos.
Always a good day when a new Cambrian Chronicles video drops.
Glad to hear!
Amazing video. Ty for all this dedication and effort. History takes loooooooots of reading. And you did. You commited to go beyond "formal history" would go. So far, you've beeen amazing describing other historic periods. Please never stop.
"Have you ever been to Powys?"
"No, where's Powys?"
"It's in Fwance."
Very very clever, you’re holding up quite well despite the ordeal of being divorced; especially since you’ve never been married!
I want to say that you've made me very interested in the history of the British Isles as a whole, and for that, I thank you, and wish you all the best.
If I had a shot for every video where you say "this should be the end right?" before unearthing several centuries of history forgotten by mankind
Seeing you upload always makes my day. Your videos are informative but entertaining; the best of both worlds.
Thank you very much, I'm glad to hear!
Bruh I wasn't expecting CK2 at the end
It always appears when you least expect it
@@CambrianChronicles Because of this video I'm gonna redownload the game form wales and rename it to Teyrnllwg
Dude, very cool. Also a rare instance of a channel getting many times (4X) less views in the first day then it has subs, very peculiar to see
This channel is one of my favourite up and coming youtube channels. Never been more interested in welsh history as i currently am. I love how you arent just regurgitating "pop history", and instead actually read and cite actual historical text with the depth they deserve.
Thank you, I really appreciate that!
Legitimately your content is very good like I cannot stop watching it every time it pops up in my feed
The intro joke was so distracting I had to restart the whole thing
Same!😂
That's what I said when the proceedings started
the plot twist of a guy who is not iolo is so good, especially when it’s so quickly revealed it is iolo