induction cooker experiments and analysis
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Today I try to power the donated induction cooker plate. I do some experiments, test and measurements. I show various waveforms on my oscilloscope and analyze how does the circuit work.
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• induction cooker - ZVS...
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• What's inside an induc...
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One of the best electronics videos ever. You are a brilliant engineer. Everything you figured out makes complete sense and is very understandable. I love your videos. I have increased my Patreon from $2 to $5. You present the technical details and your cat the practical interpretation. Keep up the great work!
I'm familiar to a lot of electronics and I love this subject. I also know the physics behind these. But as a highschool student, when he goes to explain every details like the remaining current charging the snubber capacitor, it just blows my mind and at the same time I can't keep up and understand everything he says. It's absolutely genius. But can I ask what do you do or experience in the industry or are you just interested in the subject? How did you understand everything he said? I will assume you have decent experience in this field but if none, maybe I'm so stupid lol. I'm sorry for asking I will also get an electrical engineering degree and I hope it will mold my wisdom more.
Agreed
This content taught me more about inductive circuit and zvs in 20 minutes than any other.Thanks so much for your straight forward explanations.You are as effecient as this zvs circuit! Question... I would have thought the freq at the halfbridge would be 25 hertz or there abouts as 50 hertz is coming from the outlet?I suppose that is the freq from the transistor going into the coil but what happens to the mains outlets freq as you said they overlay each other. I would have thought it would get ugly on the scope when they clash.
What is driving the gate ? Kind regards Andy
The half bridge circuit rectifies both half cycles of the sine wave. This video shows it.
ua-cam.com/video/wNnOfF1NkxI/v-deo.html
At 13:30 in this video his upper circuit has a coil labeled "I sense XFMR". That is the coil the micro controller is using to detect the current flow and time the gate pulses. Basically, they are driven by the micro controller. Good luck to you. 👍
Link to the manual:
media3.neff-international.com/Documents/9001590144_D.pdf
I liked it until it did not work with most pots. For me that's just unacceptable for a cook top. Heating elements should just make heat regardless of what they're heating.
It's to sell you their brand of utensils.
the most of pots thesedays have metal plate at the botztom, and rest of it is aluminium
@@felixcat4346 No it's not. It is simply not feasible to heat aluminium with induction in a cooking application. You would need to scale up ALL the power electronic components at least 10x to be able to even START to do it.
If this cooker tried to heat an aluminum pot regardless, it would heat itself more than the pot or even destroy itself, without heating the pot to a usable degree.
It's also not like induction-capable pots are hard to find, expensive, or anything else.
That was the only disadvantage for me when I switched, I needed a new frying pan and coffee pot but also can’t heat my Pyrex on the cooker now (it can go in the microwave anyway so no problem)
@@samuell.foxton4177 I don't like to heat all things up in a microwave. MW works fine for a lot of stuff but some things I like over plain old heat. To me MW makes some things have a rubbery texture. Like say, bouncy chicken. I guess if you're a vegetarian you can live out of a MW.
Nice! Thank you. The capacitive buttons probably need the glass plate in between them and your finger to function properly.
yeah they are tuned
you are right some other cooker will show error if no glass is used
I got this very model in my kitchen and I can attest to that. The buttons work with a bit of lag.
The power button usually needs a long press, to make sure you dont activate it too easily when cleaning the glass.
Yes. I hate this when accidentally touching sensor panel washing machine
I like your bloody long video’s!😉
some pots have a iron core attached under them so they can work with any induction cooker
Iron would be ideal. Sometimes it’s a thin steel plate, and it tends to overheat when it’s too thin.
I always amazed with fine tuned resonance circuit. for me it's like a black magic, but again to put it simply it's like pushing a child in swing when the swing at its peak so the oscillation is not interrupted, BUT implementing this on an electronic device it's still amazing and bloody complex.
it could be imagined as 2 children on swings and you left arm does one and the right does the other out of phase. your body is the pivot. also you can imagine a olympic swimmer with each stroke but a slight delay between each as the body rotates slightly for the next pulse. A liitle bit of the last stroke is converted into the pivot. but only on the fastest swimmers.Dont tell anybody as its an olympic secret.LOL
You have a real gift for explanation. I hope you are using it in your working life
What does he do for living?
@@omniyambot9876 don't know
I love induction cooking, I would never go back to gas or those dreadful infrared things.
Exactly, that is why the comment he put on the cat where he prefers the resistive elements is really out of place. Induction is so much superior it's ridiculous 😂
its pretty awesome but not really sustainable long term. At the end of the day its a whole inverter rather than a gas hob or a resistor. Of course that isnt really an issue if you repair your own things.
What I hate the most with cookers using resistive heating, is not that they take longer to boil a pot of water, but the huge delays when changing power setting. Once it get too hot, the heat still continues to rise, even if it's turned compleatly off and things will start to burn or boil over before the heat finally stops rising and starts to go down. Then if you forget to turn it on again, it takes forever before the heat comes back
- and for example a steak will dry out in the frying pan, before it's properly cooked.
@@Speeder84XL The main issue for me with resistive heating is it first has to heat the ceramic glass, which then heats the pan. If something boils over it is baked on and a hell of a job to remove. With induction, nothing heats but the pan. The only heat on the glass is that transferred from the pan. Should something boil over it can be removed, often just by mopping it up. Maybe a little mild soap. Infrared cookers can look a real mess after just a few months .
@@MichaelBeeny Yeah!
That's a pain in the ass as well, haha. Espesially around the edges of the hot zones where it get just the right temperature to stick the worst (the middle often get hot enough to burn most of it off)
I hate these capacitive touch buttons! I switches my old microwave with one that have these, it seems that they are designed in a way that short touches on the buttons won't activate them, probably for security reasons, with a strong filtering so that noise does not trigger them at random. The delay in them in horrible, almost half a second, if I want to put 20 minutes I could do 2 quick presses on +10 on my old one, in this new, which does not have this nor numbers, I have to hold the up arrow that starts with 10 seconds delta, then 30, then 1 minute as it gets faster and, obviously, I always end up setting up more time than I wanted, so I have to press the down arrow.... "progress"
What I did when needing a new microwave is bought some used Panasonic inverter microwave for 20€ with grill function... Besy microwave I ever had especially when melting frozen vegetables and also made in UK of all places. I wonder if they still make them there. Seems the model originally dates to from the late 90s also.
@@rkan2 Don't get me started on melting things on a non inverter microwave!
When I bought an induction hob a while back, I deliberately found one that had knobs - Smeg Victoria (SI964 series). It was the only one I could find at the time that just had a separate knob for each "burner" like my old gas hob.
The knobs just select between the different power levels (which are still indicated with 7-segment displays). You can also turn it backwards to do some kind of timer-based thing but I've never used that. The main thing is, you can just turn it up or down by turning the knobs just like a gas cooker. It does annoy me that most of them have touch controls even though that is worse for a hob in pretty much every way, just because they want to look "modern".
hey you need to put glass on control pcb to work properly some other induction cookers dont even turn on or show some error if no glass top are attached
This reminds me of Dual Resonant SSTCs, I wish you could build one someday
17:24 pointing at screen with metal things makes me so uncomfortable
Thanks for the interesting video, I learned something new ;)
Oh, Ohm on my Range...
Where the waveforms don't seem all that strange...
Never was heard, a discouraging word...
_(everybody sing or hum along now @ 50/60 Hz....)_
Very interesting. I have the same cooker in my house and now I know how it works.
much awaited. niceee
thanks for explaining how it works in great detail.
Some isolating sleeve over the scope bnc next time?
Needs to use a scope isolated from earth, which this little battery-powered LCD one is, of course
@@greengrayradio1394 that's not what he means... the BNC might be live and can be accidentally touched when he operates it
Your videos are nice.
Which oscilloscope model? I am thinking about my birthday present, and wanna some portable one
Looks like KKmoon DSO PRO with P6100 probe.
The most powerful one goes to 11. The cooker downstairs can boil a pot of water upstairs.
Nyce video but if a flyback transformer is connected to it, will it be able to make high voltage?
Have you considered making a series of videos for beginners? I would totally love to see one. Like you show some electronic components and explain how they work.
A propos your cat, I also prefer the simplicity of resistive elements. Is inductive more efficient due to lower thermal losses?
Inductive is heating the pot's bottom itself.
Resistive heater is separated from the pot, that heat must be transferred to it. Then, resistive element heats up also it's other side, which then must be reflected and insulated.
My cat prefers gas cookers that can work even with a repurposed tin can.
I have never seen such in deph circuit analysis on UA-cam. I absolutley LOVE your channel.
I'm waiting when you conect this to flyback or tesla coil
+1
My friend, your videos are never too long! Thanks for your contribution. I look forward to the next video.
Best on youtube.
Perfect beauty!.
The 7KW is why us brits have a dedicated circuit for such cooking appliances, terminating in a hard-wired cooker connection point usually, no need for any two or three phase power... :)
In Hungary, we also run a separate wire from the incoming distribution block, the only problem is that we don't get 100A for free as you! 😛
It is actually 30A which is free to install here, but in older houses you usually find 16A on single phase. The phase currents add up, so if you ask for 3ph, it is 3*10A.
By free I mean, you don't have to pay extra installation cost. Above 30A you have to pay roughly 12 GBP per Amperes, so it can get expensive quite quickly. It's a one-time cost though...
Is it possible to use an induction heater as a basis for building SSTC?
Very informative video. I have a question, Why the coils have a gap at its half radius?
pulsed dc half bridge?
Ah the sound! That must be a siemens one
Totally mesmerizing even though I'm in here watching well above my head. I thought I'd look for a minute or two to at least know what it was and then decide and BOOM the video was over haha!
So, can you reassemble this under ceramic then? Black glass is so boring and ugly.
Can someone know how the control panel Touch buttons are working and which type of material is used?
I always wanted to see what was inside. I have single burner one for testing. It works great.
5:40 Oh my God! This is a lot worse than my habit of drinking coffee next to my laptop.
Where do you put the probe ? Across the capacitor tank or where? To observe the sine resonant.?
A 2 burner resistive cooktop cost $32. A 2 burner induction cooktop cost $230. The induction cooker is efficient but full of circuits that can break. The resistive cooker has no components and will likely last 30years. These things are not energy saving or environmental when manufacture cost are counted.
But they won't burn the house down
Nice video
How the pots are detected by these cooker and why aluminum pot not suitable?
I am fascinated by the accent, I have no clue what is going on but I am listening to the accent
Wow,this cooker sound like a Geiger-Muller counter.
Did you try to make a Tesla secondary coil for this :-)
From cave men who could start a fire with a stick to electric fire that requres phd to start.
Yes, all that overcomplicated electronics, just to fry an egg. Ridiculous!
Certainly doesn't require a PhD to start (in it's disassembled form) but probably requires at least some engineering degree to not be accidentally killed by it...
@@trebushett2079 you have never used one, correct?
How many millihenries is the coil?
Is it possible to decrease the minimum temperature of any induction cooktop? Let's say, mine says 140°F but it boils water, I want it to be cooler.
Have same problem it is sensor problem.
Bloody hell, this time I agree with the cat!
Another Robo voice canidate
Can you try to make a housing for it?
Calcurator: historie, tiles: czechoslovakia. Are you from czech republic?
Yes, he is Czech.
@@eDoc2020 oh im czech to.
Thanks for the insight. I had hoped to run a single ring in a camper/RV and wondered if I could use a square wave or modified Sine inverter for maximum conversion efficiency (and low cost) but it looks like shape of the the rectified Sine input voltage waveform is essential for the operation of the circuit.
You don't need AC for the operation, DC suffices. Run any kind of inverter at any frequency, then rectify it and feed to the induction heater.
@@LMB222 at 50 hz is ok?
Fantastic video(s) DGW ,,Thanks for sharing. ,,Definitely worth Patreon support.
Quite dodgy
Lol 2 funny
turn on the subtitles please
Very good video i have an induction board with problems this video came to help understand how it works.
Still waiting for the schematic of the 12V 50A 600W power supply 😂
straight chromium grades of stainless work (400 series) it is magnetic enough to run successfully. That's the only thing i hate about my induction hot plate. It really is fast and efficient even though i only have a baby one powered off 120v. Glad you finally did a video on induction cookers.
Well, I once worked with resonance circuits and induction heating. Now I'm working with control algorithms for electric drives and all this resonance stuff is so much easier compared to what I'm doing now. It might sound hard at beginning but once you understand techniques and topologies of induction heaters it'd become easy. When it comes to drives I have a feeling that I might be never able to fully understand all of them. Meh, maybe I should go back to good old resonant circuits?
You have to be one of the best on UA-cam at explaining the schematics and how a circuit is doing whats its doing. i know im not the only one to think/(know) this!! BLOODY BRILLIANT VIDEO! : )
Great video! Didn’t think of the power factor problem, i just thought they don’t filter the rectified AC because of cost.
i didnt know that there are actually 4 bridges ._. also, ir21531 sstc when?
I remember when I was confronted with this technology for the first time I tried so many different materials just out of curiosity. Those enameled pots work great on induction but I reckon a cast iron one would work even better, perhaps too well.
mod it to run at 12v :D
I suggest Allegro ACS733 current-sensing chip.
Is your cable spliced,or just the outer insulation is damaged and wrapped in tape?
It look odd how the power is redirected at 9 level for single cooker, because that means you cannot run them both at full power. Induction cooker I have and others I seen all have boost mode, there essentially total power from both cookers are redirected to one.
Can this circuit power a Tesla coil?
Maybe if it had a feedback coil and was isolated from the 240 volt but it also has a load detection coil circuit you have bypass
soup tonight then
What happens if you put a tesla coil-like secondary on top of one of those coils? Would it work, or would it refuse to 'cook'?
i agree with your cat :D you give perfect explanation as always
Do cooking tutorial. How to cook parówki or something easy like it.
Excellent video! Your explanations are better than I've ever gotten from any book!
thadits nyyyyceee
Please make an induction heater for melting small pieces of metal ;)
Very good explanation. Thanks
9 power levels, or is it more like 20 with half-levels? I have used induction cookers with 10 power levels and they are miserable to use unless for simply boiling water. The one I am using now has about 100 power levels, but is no longer manufactured. Its replacement has I think 54 power levels and that is probably enough not to annoy a serious cook like me.
I think that power levels are implemented using different duty cycles. I’m in the USA and so it was 120 volts and 15 amps to work with, so at most 1800 watts.
Maybe you had a very badly designed model, but there's not much point to having so many power levels, they just need to be evenly distributed across a logarithmic scale. I've heard many plug-in models are terrible in many ways, so maybe they didn't do that.
its the duty cycle that ruin it for serious cooks as it double the power for half of the time and stuff burns
@@Buzzhumma Yeah that can be a problem, but it's purely down to bad software.
There is no reason to cycle the power as slowly as some units do. After all they just turn off all Transistors during the off time. It's not like they use a Relay to do that or something where switching cycles have to be reduced.
@@Basement-Science try using one with few power levels. Say you want to keep a pot just barely on the boil. If your induction cooker has 9 power levels, you have to be very lucky to have one of its levels just right. Or try slow-cooking scrambled eggs: I found it impossible to do reliably without enough power levels. With the usual ohmic burner or gas, one can make a fine adjustment.
@@markiangooley I use one with only 9 levels daily. No problems here.
Niiiiiiicee!
All that overcomplicated electronics, just to fry an egg. Ridiculous!
It IS the best way to do it though.
Thanks for fabulous tremendous work!
are you having a secret formula to convert watt to amp
awesome complexity for a heater, thanks for the vidoe!
3am in the morning...oh quick.. the diodes have gone wild LOL
No
The benefit of an induction cooker is that it heats the food, not the whole kitchen! I think when my gas cooker packs up, or if the price of gas becomes too the next one will be an induction one.
It takes 4180J. of energy to make 1kg. (= 1 litre) of water get 1 degree hotter, which is just under 70 Watts-minutes. So at 3.5kW, in two minutes it could bring 1 litre of water from freezing to boiling. In practice, it probably will take a bit longer, because the pan is also absorbing some of the heat; but even so, the specific heat capacity of metals is lower than water. And this is still more efficient than using either resistive heating (which requires heating a larger mass) or fire (which loses some heat in the exhaust products carried on the updraught).
The reason why water has such a high specific heat capacity is because of hydrogen bonds. When hydrogen and oxygen are in a covalent bond together, the oxygen atom tends to hog all the electrons to itself. This means there is a weak negative charge near the oxygen and a weak positive charge near the hydrogen, so each water molecule will attract its neighbours towards itself a little bit. This hydrogen bond is not as strong as a proper ionic bond, let alone a covalent bond, but it does still take some energy to separate it.
Maybe you could make a home-made slow cooker by filling a big pot made of ceramic or some sort of plastic that will not get too soft when it gets hot with stew, and putting some tungsten lamps right inside it so the heat from the lamp will go exactly where it is needed?
Another crazy idea: Use solar panels during the day while you are out at work to produce electricity, and use this to sepaate water into hydrogen and oxygen. Then at night, use a hydrogen-fuelled cooker to cook your supper!
But it fries our nervous system and causes cancer by the induced EMF, those can crack molecules by resonance. For denaturing effects of alternating magnetic fields on organic molecules see e.g. patent US9840687B2 "Artificial aging apparatus for spirits and other alcoholic beverages".
YOU NEED AN ISOLATION TRANSFORMER BADLY. MAYBE MAKE ONE AND MAKE A VIDEO OF IT FOR US.. DO YOU HAVE A 2 CHANNEL SCOPE??
P.S. BEFORE I FORGET.. IS THE RINGS OF THE COOKER DETECTING A MAGNETIC CHANGE AND THAT'S WHY IT WOULD ONLY LET THE IRON POT WORK???
This oscilloscope looks like battery powered. Does he really needs one here?
Complicated circuits, but they have to be.. Very good analysis!
Yes, quite, but that was not my comment :)
postawił bym wszystko pod wanną ;}
I really needed this Bl000dy h3ll!
Descriptions instead of not ready to use.👎👎👎👎👎
Nice Video. Thanks!
*Consuming lots of Power, that's scary 🙄🙄*
This channel is awesome
Nice video , can this cocker wirelessly charge your phone or blow it , You can use one of the big winding to make a wireless charging table .
you want to charge your phone with 2000 watts then fine but you wont have a phone when its fully charged! lol
@@Buzzhumma of course he will get a nice coocked battery with some tantalum flover.
Brilliant video , I’m repairing an induction cooker now so this couldn’t have been better timed . I am surprised to learn that you don’t understand how induction cooking works - your pots must be magnetic in order for the induction to heat the metal. More modern pans come fitted with an iron plate at the bottom to make them compatible even though the rest of the pot might be made from aluminium .
So is it really more efficient then resistance heater? Or microwave? Let's say we want to cook 1L of water? Also which will be the fastest?
Yes, in that case induction will easily beat everything else in both efficiency and speed. The shorter the cooking process you want to do, the bigger the advantage of induction will be in both efficiency and speed. If you want to cook something for 30 minutes, all types of stoves will perform pretty much the same.
- Microwave ovens are AT MOST maybe 70% efficient because of the magnetron in it, which is a vacuum tube. You also wont find one that can put out more than 1000w, so speed is limited by that.
- Classic resistive heaters take ages to heat up and their heat capacity is "lost" when you are done cooking. Some more heat from the plate itself will go to the air, the rest of the cooker etc, instead of the pot. The infrared variant is the same except it has less heat capacity, meaning the plate itself heats up faster and cools faster. But both are very slow at transferring heat to a pot.
- A gas stove can potentially beat induction in terms of speed if you turn it to the maximum, but from an energy and efficiency standpoint, it still loses because of all the exhaust gas that is still hot without having heated the pot. Of course 1kWh of gas is usually cheaper than 1kWh of electricity, so it depends on the respective prices which is cheaper in the end.
Technically there is almost no limit to the speed at which you _could_ heat a pot with induction, or how efficiently you can do it. Manufacturers just settle for a good balance between cost, efficiency and utility.
@@Basement-Science Here in the US it's easy to find microwave ovens over 1000W. 1100W is pretty common and the maximum seems to be 1250W. This 1250W output happens to be 70% of the power available on a standard 15A household circuit, so your estimation is right on.
@@eDoc2020 Yeah I've heard you can supposedly get those higher power microwaves in the US, but I'm also still wondering if they just measure it differently or something. The components inside dont seem to be bigger from what I could tell (especially the magnetron).
Of course you could easily make a much higher power microwave for 230v countries, but there seems to be no demand for it.
@@Basement-Science I presume it's measured the same way. The built-in microwave here says 120 VAC 1.60 KW Output 800W on its label and the newer 1100w countertop unit is rated 1.5kW (and this latter rating was confirmed when I borrowed a power meter).
It's possible that Americans advertise with the maximum power into an ideal load and Europe measures with a standardized or realistic load, I don't know. I'm curious, what's the ratio of advertised output power to input power on microwaves in your area? If that number's different it probably means different measurement techniques.
The difference might also be culture influenced. In this country known for laziness and obesity microwaves are probably valued more, as they are used for heating prepackaged foods. Maybe in your part of the world microwaves just aren't used as often.
@@eDoc2020 Just checked, my old one says 1400 W input and 900 W output for the microwave part of it.
I've also got a new one that claims 1040 W input and 1000 W output... something is definitely up here... (it's an inverter model, but still)
I'm going to do some digging...
As for cultural, a lot of people here dont even have a microwave, either because they think they are harmful, or because they just dont know what they would use it for. Ready made food is not super common over here. I guess you'd have to look for proper statistics though.
Oh, I am sorry to hear your two channel oscilloscope has been misbehaving so badly you grounded it. When is it allowed out again?
Someone buy this guy a proper scope.
and where is my favorite Soviet oscilloscope...? 🙄
Next video, DGW says