Yes guys I understand that these other character have some form of super speed. But they are not shown to have consistent speed reaction. Omni-Man has been shown to have speed reaction before but then he will get hit by a robot, or when he was hit by members of the guardians. If he could catch Red Rush's hand then he should never be able to be hit.
Yah, that's always been an issue with feats related to a lot of OP characters. It's why I don't read Superman, because he should never be hit, and Darkseid shouldn't ever lose either. In Onmimans case, hes 400some billion FTL, he could see Red Rush easy, but being able to hit him would likely require some foresight due to the acceleration needed for Smart Atoms to build up.
I completely understand where you're coming from but you gotta understand that issue not only goes for Speedster's but ALL types of powerful characters. Characters that can hold black holes are all of a sudden overpowered by some city level villain. Characters that can control molecules all of a sudden can't stop some rando. Characters who can LITERALLY do whatever they want get beaten up like it's nothing. It's a problem that's unfortunately been around for a long time. Hopefully people like you will bring more attention to it so more consistent stories can be written. 😁👍
I think they were trying to do a thing where he was waiting for red rush to punch a certain area with his arm ready to grab that area instinctively. He can move fast but doesn't have the brain speed to react in the moment so he has to think and prepare before hand. Some inner monologue would of really made his speed reaction make more sense.
@@Velocity_YT he's not. ATrain move Hughie so fast that Homelander couldn't see or hear it. Then again, Homelanders feats are so inconsistent. He can see through anything but Zinc and still couldn't hit Hughie crawling in vents. Do his eye beams block his line of sight? If so, no reason he couldn't fly up and one shot.
@gregorius9251 you know some times I wonder that like he has insane reaction time should could he have just not backed away a little and then lasered Batman
@gregorius9251 xray vision to scan for kryptonite at a distance, then heat vision their heads off before getting into kryptonite range. All within 1 millisecond, as Superman has superspeed.
And with most oppositions, you don't even need to be faster than light, just faster than a neuron. No one can hit you if their brain signals are statues compared to you.
@@a-buttonace That's captain cold not iceman. Iceman would make sense being able to beat a speed force user, captain cold makes no sense at all since he just has a fucking cold gun hahaha
The problem not only with speedsters but superpowers in general is that as a writer you have to set limits on how they work and easy to follow, but almost no one does that and the powers work in whatever the plot needs to, causing inconsistencies along the way.
I've been barking at this to anyone who'll listen for a while, now. Minimums and maximums need to be established and followed consistently. While I love Al Ewing's Immortal Thor, he recently took a few pages to sort of joke about the sort of people who argue about which superhero or villain would win in a fight against another. Thor himself brings the topic up while fighting Storm; Storm conjures the crushing weight of Jupiter's atmosphere and manages to force Thor down to one knee--and then Thor makes the remark that he can handle anything he needs to handle in order to do what's right, as he stands up, resisting that crushing atmosphere. ...The irony being, that Al has forgotten something or is perhaps just ignorant of something--or else, it's part of his joke: Just a few short years ago, Thor was flying in and out of the Sun for hours at a time to collect fragments of Mjolnir, and the internal pressure of the Sun (nevermind the HEAT) is orders of magnitude greater than Jupiter's atmospheric pressure. I can't really blame him, necessarily; trying to keep track of each writer's feats for Thor and making sure your own Thor run doesn't make him look too weak or too powerful compared to past iterations would be maddening, at this point. They should simply set new standards with defined minimum and maximum limits and follow those from now on, rather than trying to catalogue every time that Hulk resisted being torn apart by a black hole or that Silver Surfer used enough of the Power Cosmic to obliterate multiple star systems.
@@flyesthuman That is the problem Speedsters can't logically work. Everytime you will find a problem. Like how their brains work, how their body can obtain and metabolize enough carbs to actually be biological thing
There was an issue of The Flash comic where he was in a theater watching a movie and felt pressure on the back of his neck , everything froze around him and when he grabbed at what was pushing on his neck , it was a bullet there was a shooter firing at the movie goers . He got up collected the bullets in the air so they wouldn't strike anyone . Apparently his reflexes kick in and he goes into Super speed automatically . Why Pietro was killed by gun fire , always surprised me . Thanks
@@MylesKillis how is it even possible to always be in fast mode and still interact with everybody and everything just fine comics bullshit, i dont buy it, he speaks, talks etc just fine just like everybody else literally makes no sense
I agree. Every time a speedster gets punched in the face by a non-speedster, I am confused. In the flash tv show, Barry was moving so fast, he made an explosion last an entire episode, yet he can’t get out of the way of a punch
@@DravenCollins-s4x I thought so too until I re-watched some scenes from the earlier seasons. Flash has ALWAYS been dumb and the show has ALWAYS been bad. Just that the first seasons were comparatively better than subsequent ones. It got progressively worse with each new season
what's funny is that's technically the flash's weakness, he slows his brain down because if he didn't he'd go crazy, that is why he slips or gets hit by traps so easily
I hate when they just throw out, “he moves as fast as light!” Without considering what that means. If someone moves that fast the first bit of air they hit would go off like 100 nuclear bombs
@@xeedflarian9748 yeah, it would be like that, but much faster and more destructive. like, every inch of air would be a super nuke, not like a minor nuke on a couple buildings. and the speed of light would cross the entire planet like 10 times per second, which would look faster also. thats a really cool scene, and it only shows a small fraction of light speed.
Not to mention, they wouldn't be able to see anything during that speed, because light doesn't have enough time to reflect off of things and into their retinas. It's the same problem with "time stopping".
Actually, literally infinite power is required to move at exactly the speed of light. They could literally destroy the whole universe by going extremely fast.
@@Chocomunchie yep, that's why speedsters are my least favourite characters, other powers you understand that are based on breaking a few natural laws or outright magic, but speedsters are like breaking almost every natural law lmao
Dash from the Incredibles moves faster than you give him credit for. For example, he would have had to move around 650 mph to be able to place the tack on his teacher's chair without the camera catching his actions.
If this is a series we need a problem with telekinetics. Absolutely no reason why someone with telekinesis couldn't just stop anyone's body from functioning. Air getting to lungs, blood circulation, etc. Nah, I'm gonna use this super power to throw rocks at you.
@BaysTalks05 like, why do Darth Vader and any of the Jedi not ever have a force choke battle? Seems like an obvious contest of who is stronger in the force... Or just who has more oxygen in their blood...
@@Loreweavver well for Star Wars it is basically explained like this. Force users can protect themselves from other force users influencing them with the force, using the force. And the further away something is, the harder it is to influence it with the force. So the guy protecting his own body with the force, has the home advantage. So they usually resort to throwing stuff at each other, like random objects, lighting or basically a shockwave, with the force push The second thing is, that any and all force use requires focus, wich detracts from their ability to react to other things. Like getting a Lightsabers swung at them, or getting shot at. The inverse is also true. So doing fancy tricks with the force during combat usually isn't a good idea. So they again rather resort to doing quick stuff, like throwing a rock or something.
@@Loreweavver spoon feeding it is. You know how people don't like getting choked? That's why they use their space magic not to get choked. Only insane people would agree on a choke battle. And as long as not both guys play nice, the second guy possibly doesn't get to choke the first guy, as the first guy is already swinging their lightsaber at the second guy. And if the space magic protection isn't strong enough, so that the second guy can choke the first guy effortlessly, the first guy already lost regardless. And however you fight the battle, the force always decides the outcome anyway, because that is how that universe works. You could even agree on an arm wrestling match, doesn't matter.
I think the best use of a speedster character I’ve seen so far has been in the MHA Vigilante spin-off. There’s this guy O’Clock who’s quirk is super speed, but he has a weakness: when he thinks at super speed, his brain consumes oxygen faster, so he has to be smart and precise with how he uses it, otherwise he’ll suffocate. I think this is great because it gives a clear weakness which can be exploited for believable ways to defeat them, and also allows us to see them making interesting strategies to overcome said weakness.
They actually did something really clever with Red Rush in invincible. If you look at the animation closely, you can see Omni man is paying attention to- and tracking the pattern of- Red Rush when he hits him. Omni man doesn’t grab when he sees red rush’s arm, he grabs before red rush gets there, effectively predicting his next move, which is why- even in slow motion- it would’ve caught red rush by surprise. Omni man pretended he didn’t know red rush was coming- and preemptively grabbed the air. You can see this in the animation, and by looking at Omni Man’s eyes. It’s a small but important detail. Also, we also need to understand that Viltrumites have a heightened sense of reaction time and overall speed- and were effectively made for combat. They have been trained to fight the strongest and fastest of creatures. That is their whole purpose. So Omni man catching red rush may be impressive from a human perspective, but that’s standard Viltrumite reaction time- and battle tactics- and not that impressive.
That’s exactly what i thought. In the Flash series he outrun the explosion of a atomic bomb! The world is (almost) standing still for him and the other speedsters. How can someone who isn’t a speedster even hit him?
They would not be able to even have the knowledge that he is there. You would have to have a sixth sense super power or be able to see the future to know where to even throw a punch. Plus the speedster could just phase and it would go right throw him
This episode is a masterpiece, it was perfect and we see flash at almost full potential, but the serie suck, he is weaker in next episode, even in the previous one, it's not logic and it made me stop the show
There is at least an excuse for the DC Speedsters, they purposefully slow down their perception as to not have everything be constantly running in slow motions. They also zone out while travelling as to not feel like they are taking ages during their use of super speed. Pretty smart IMO, because I definitely wouldn't be trying to focus all the time if EVERYTHING was playing at 100x slow mo.
while true most of the time, this shouldnt be a thing in scenarios when fighting for your life, thats when they should be fully focusing to avoid making mistakes. i mean, how many times are they gonna get caught off guard before they learn that they should keep full focus throughout the whole battle?
@@lytebluestudios Not really. Perception of time and speed of conscious thought isn't the same thing. In fact your brain can increase the speed of conscious thought when you are doing something engaging and entertaining, but you will feel like time flies by. What speedsters need is vastly altered perception of time, to prevent them from getting bored.
@@libertyprime1614 can you elaborate on that, I didn't get it really. Any other speedster should be able to react and see everything in slow motion or otherwise they will stumble every time running
@@ueiddd Yes, speedsters need to be able to think faster, they need increased speed of conscious thought, but it doesn't mean their perception of time must change. My point is that our perception of time is independent to the speed of conscious thought. Einstein's explained it better “sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it feels like a minute; sit on a hot stove for a minute, and it feels like many hours. That's relativity.”? This is an example of how perception of time can be altered without affecting the speed of conscious thought. If that didn't help imagine you are doing a very boring task for an hour, your mind not into it, you are not into it, and it isn't particularly hard just boring, compare it to the hour of playing your favourite game or other activity, which is very engaging. Without using a clock, if asked to estimate how much time passed after each activity people will overestimate time wasted on the boring task and underestimate time for the game, despite the fact that your brain is probably more stimulated playing the game, and processed more information for the same time.
If a realistic speedster touches you while on slow Mo, it would be catastrophic. Their fingers alone would be like a bullet fired from the a gun piercing through your skin. Getting punched multiple times would be equivalent to getting hit with a grapeshot from a canon.
But catastrophic to who? An egg travelling at 1000mph will still be smashed to bits when it hits a wall. If a speedster isn't much more durable than the character they hit, they'll simply smash themselves to bits. So if they get beat to a pulp in normal speed, being faster won't help
@@Thecoolestnumberone Not if the writer's don't want them to. If they say that Captain America can kill Superman by hitting him with his shield, then Captain America can kill Superman by hitting him with his shield.
I have a terrible idea for how to balance a speedster in a superhero story: don't. Go the comedy rout and make every one else on the superhero team incompetent wildly incompetent in new and creative ways and constantly need to be saved by the speedster.
Superman type character is getting shot at with bullets made of their “kryptonite” but believe their normal and just stands there, so the speedster has to swap out each bullet midair with normal ones
@@Mark-in8ju Whenever I can, and always. Graphic Audio Sanderson is so fucking good. Give them your money, you wont regret it. Sazed's voice lives rent free in my head. Spoilers The Final Empire: ua-cam.com/video/hTnsf1dS0m0/v-deo.html&ab_channel=Theorchero
Here’s something that could make sense. Acceleration. Obviously for speed, you first need to start up as seen with the A-Train clip where he isn’t moving quickly at first but once he gets up and running, he moves lightning fast out. For any speedster, they need to first accelerate. This line of thinking could theoretically apply to fast reaction speeds too as they need to accelerate their thinking if you can understand what I'm putting down. Though, you can really chalk up all failures of speedsters to poor writing that makes it extremely inconsistent in terms of how their powers exactly work…
The thing I really dislike about speedsters, well besides how overpowered it is to move at the speed of light, is their ability to start and stop on a dime. Nice that the Boys seemed to actually give some thought to that.
Nope,acceleration has nothing to do with it.They even see things in slow motion,so it's not just their momentum that's making them fast.Sure,normal humans also have to move fast in order to avoid or get to place quicker but,the fact that they are a thousand times faster makes their movements(while in a hurry or to save someone) makes it that much more faster than usual.I hope this makes sense.
@@exerpachuau5486 Maybe they need to slow down their thinking to understand the people around them. A conversation will last forever if they don't slow superfast thinking down. To speed their mind up they need to accelerate again.
Right, Avengers Quicksilver is actually slow when compared to most other speedsters. Also, the Jean Gray thing, considering she's one of the world's most powerful telekinetics as well as a telepath, her anticipation of Quicksilver's movements isn't all that unbelievable. Her telekinesis is powerful enough to affect things at the molecular level. She could probably feel him moving before he actually moved. Not to mention, she could probably hear him thinking.
MCU Quicksilver was unfortunately just a victim of a licensing dispute between Disney and FOX at the time. Had FOX not used the character first in Days of Future Past, Disney wouldn't have felt pressured to kill off their own Quicksilver to avoid confusion between the two versions
Yeh it's not far fetch that jean can think at those speeds she is a super powerfull spsic and even Charles can control thousands of peoplo at once it's a lot of brain power
Why do people keep bringing that up. He wasn't electrocuted, it was literally a neurotoxin. It affected his nerves, you can literally even see his veins pops out to a greenish color
This applies in real life too with us humans, one guy got shot with one bullet he dies, another guy got shot 9 times he still living normally..what doesn't make sense to u exactly? What u want a 5 seconds show?
My big thing with speedsters is that they generally don't have invulnerability or enhanced durability, so how can they survive hitting something at the speeds they do? They should receive the same force put into the blow themselves. So if the Flash punched someone, especially a Kryptonian at a speed where the world appears frozen he should destroy his entire arm.
The Flash actually wouldn't destroy his arm since he has a speed force barrier/ aura that protects him from turning into a mushy pancake like normal humans would. That's why he's able to do crazy stunts like punching people who have invincibility. Also if you look up one of The Flash's moves, one of his abilities is called the Infinite Mass Punch.
Part of ANY power-set is "not harmed by own power". Otherwise, all superhero stories would take place in the hospital. Doctor: "Mr. Allen here friction-burned all his skin off. Mr. Summers over there has no eyelids. Mr. Parker centrifuged his intestines out of his rectum while swinging across Times Square. Ms. Grey crushed her own brain while trying to lift a car with it."
The flash has a speed force aura that protects him and the world around him if anything moves that fast the earth would burst into flames but other speedsters don't have a comic explanation
@@white_morphsplays8139yeah but the speed force doesn’t protect him from that. There was a moment where he punched a woman and broke his hand because she was too durable. And in the show Barry punched his bully and he broke his hand because he hardened his skin. Either way it goes the speed force is inconsistent as heck.
That’s the only problem with this is that in Invincible red rush was actually smart like when he just tied up that guy in 2 seconds while on a date. And in the scene he dies you can see everyone moving in slow motion. Because he grabs him and kills him in a second.
I mean they should have went the comic route to avoid this, none of the guardians barely even SAW omni man when he struck in the comics, each guardian got a panel death scene not a whole 30 seconds of fighting lol
Also Homeland isn't slow, remember the scene when Butcher sets off explosives in the house and wakes up at a completely different house and sees his wife. Homelander and Omniman are fast enough to catch their respected speedster off guard.
And even if A-Train is faster, there's the psychological aspect of A-Train being intimidated by Homelander. So even if he is faster, he might not think he is
@@NLT1734 The thing people forget is that fear is the highest power you can instill in someone. Once you do that, they'll likely never have the courage to challenge you. Homelander instilled a lot of fear into A-Train.
I love how you brought up Dash from The Incredibles. Amazing character who doesn't really have the traditional "super speed" but is very fast. Fast enough to make it notable but not fast enough to be stupidly OP.
to be fair the nerf every other power in this same way, like they'll have a character with super strength (which has to be paired with super durability otherwise they wouldn't survive their own attacks) but they get injured by normal stuff like a brick hitting them or something
@utteero exactly. A speedster would need super durability just to survive. The sheer friction of him moving would rip his skin off and shatter every bone in his body. He would also suffocate. So the fact that most speedsters aren't given some type of invulnerability makes 0 sense.
@@Azriel1932 super speed also needs super strength because they need those powerful legs to move at super speed otherwise it would their legs wouldn't be able to accelerate them to those speeds
but can you catch a fly by your hand? it's as simple as that, fly swatter travels very fast compared to a fly reaction speed but you won't catch a fly with just your hand unless you caught it off guard. with speedsters reaction speed, they would see a punch like it's not moving.
omniman wasnt focusing on red rush at first but after red rush saved the guardians multiple times he realized red rush should be the first to go and thats where red rush made the mistake of attacking omniman and omniman was fast enough to react to him. red rush shouldve stayed with the role of supporting the guardians and bailing them when they are in danger instead of attacking omniman where he knows he cant hurt him.
I still disagree. Even if redrush lowered his guard... He should be able to dodge omni mans arms. Like come on is he punching while his eyes are closed?
Omniman can fly at insane speeds, but he clearly isn't super fast in any other capacity (in the show anyway, I don't know the comics). Him beating Red Rush is the only time in the entire show he displays any kind of speed-react feat.
I disagree on 1:36 homelander is actually way faster than a train and been shown to be fast without needing to rely on pure flight if u seen the last episode of season 1 the boys not only could a train not kill homelander he wouldn’t be able to perception blitz him
Btw lets not downplay that last episode we clearly see homelander is able to react very fast and can be calculated faster than a train the whole starlight feat wasn’t actually moving at the speed of light they are just plasma beams and most of them were a train aim dodimg them
This. And I think the whole thing with A-Train and Homelander is that it's a fear factor. A train doesnt even think he could outrun, or escape Homelander. That doubt would get him killed by Homelander
Same thing with writing RELIGIOUS FIGURES in HOLLYWOOD. Take METATRON, MICHAEL, GABRIEL, LUCIFER, all these characters throughout different pantheons were NERFED because in REAL LIFE, their FIGHTS wouldn't last a SECOND and HUMANS will NEVER be able to FIGURE OUT what HAPPENED. But ALAS, DRAMA SELLS in ART and not LOGIC. So it's allowed but LARPers must remember that in REALISTIC SCENES, OP is OP and cannot be NERFED.
Omni man is close to as fast as Red Rush, and what he did was notice that RR was hitting him from his blind spot every time so he knew where he’d be attacking next, that’s why he caught him without looking Edit: Too many people, enough replying, Omni man IS fast enough to catch and kill RR, but by that logic he shouldn’t have had such a hard time killing the guardians so he’s the problem, that’s all. Case closed
While true, Red Rush is still shown in the same episode as being capable to run home change clothes and return. It doesn't really matter if his home was down the road, he's shown as being a lot faster than what Omniman did. My dude spent from his point of view hours for all we know and the only thing he could think about doing was hit him in the chest. Its just outright disrespectful. From a narrative standpoint, if your point was to make the main villain outsmart a speedster, that was just careless.
@@fullestauto8912not only that but red rush,also blocked omniman's punch, they need to at least put a science expert as a director whenever making a speedster character. It's crazy,even if omni man was 95% as fast as red rush,still shouldn't be able to touch him
@@zethembegallant2060 It's just logic. People will rationalize what they see or what is a reflection of their desired outcome. It's part and parcel of the problem. People forget that these..."characters" are just something that someone pulled out of their ass and placed in an arbitrarily defined situation...to tell a story. That's it. Everything that's written can be arbitrarily changed at a whim...because it's all pulled from someone's ass. That's the power of being a creator. People used to understand that. Now? Not so much. There is no reason for Omni Man to even touch RR other than that's what the writer wanted to have happen. Period. But see how OP rationalized it? People were smarter once.
@@fullestauto8912 Think of dbz logic how characters are punching as fast as light yet we see every one of their moves omniman was fast enough to react to his moves it's just that they couldn't show it on super speed otherwise you wouldn't know what happened
Omni-man can fly at faster than light speeds. He may actually be capable of faster speeds than Red Rush. What gives Red Rush the edge is that he thinks a lot faster than Omni-man. But Omni-man only has to get lucky once.
"Is she able to think as super speed?" Yes actually. In Marvel the speed of thought IS the fastest thing there is. Xavier once had a telepathic conversation with Lilandra who was over 200 million light years away as if she was in the same room with him. In order to do that, his thoughts had to be moving at literally quadrillions of times the speed of light. Jean Grey is a stronger telepath than he is. So yes, she can think at super speed. I do agree that the MCU wasted Quicksilver though. Most of your video you are ignoring the powers of the other character. It is shown that Omni-Man himself can move at many times the speed of light as well. So, while Red Rush may have been faster than him, it wasn't by much.
My problem is more the fact that they don't make the other characters consistent. If they are shown to have super speed once, then they should always have it.
Speed of thought is one thing, being able to SEE him move at that speed is another. You can think as fast as you want, but light still needs to hit objects, bounce off, hit your eyes, then your eyes still need to send that signal to your brain. Let’s not forget your eyes also have a a very limited frame rate so you would never see him moving.
@@hannibalhector3719 Dude, did you really talk about light needing to hit objects with comics and characters that can more many times the speed of light? That's hilarious.
My friend, what you just said is EXACTLY why I stopped watching the flash about 9 years ago. I literally thought the same about that super power in general and I’m happy to know someone else thinks the same
One thing to consider with A train is that he was dealing with heart problems that would sometimes hinder his ability to run, so he did have a weakness that explained his fear of Homelander.
Yup, at least Days of Future Past had the decency to have Quicksilver f*ck off for the climax so he couldn't solve everything, but speedsters are...a problem
He thinks at super speed, so hed lose focus at superspeed and regain it at super speed. There is no debate its a plothole. In the comics it happens differently and red rush isnt as strong.
I 100% agree. I get they can’t make Speedsters “immortal” or “undefeated”, but that’s where u put limits on how fast they can be. Like u said, Dash is a perfect example of that where he’s fast, but not too fast to where he’s untouchable.
0:32 The reason Red Rush got caught is because Omni-Man noticed Red Rush is only attacking his blind spot, and intentionally turned his back to bait him into an attack that he could punish. But yeah maybe he was just an idiot.
Like fr tho I get Omni Man anticipated Red Rush’s attack and it caught him off guard but even then he sees things in SLOW MOTION. That should’ve been an easy evade into a 5 hit combo and go back to playing defense for immortal man and war woman. The show did better than the comics because I find it very funny that Nolan in the comics just no diffed them all which is bs writing imo.
If you want to be physically accurate, the second Barry starts moving a nuke goes off due to him colliding with air particles at relativistic speeds, killing him and everybody in a 10 mile range instantly. If you want to be slightly less physically accurate and give him durability, a nuke still goes off (or a continuous series of nukes), but he survives it. If you want to be less physically accurate still, Barry phases through air, has insane durability but his punches should be like hydrogen bombs in terms of strength. They seem to pay SOME attention to the kinetic energy a speedster's hits can carry, but they are severely, and I mean SEVERELY downplaying it. They have to make it make no sense, otherwise the movie ends in 5 minutes. Reaction time is one thing but the sheer power is also dismissed.
your argument is "they could just move out the way" but when your punching someone your whole body is putting weight and momentum into the punch and so its kinda like getting locked in an animation which would leave them open.
But couldnt you also simply re-direct your movement? It makes sense that the weight and momentum would carry on but assuming that all parts of the speedster is fast (and not just their arms and legs), as a speedster moving/thinking at a super speed simply redirect their momentum enough to dogde? Omni-mans grab for example: red rush didnt have to pull his punch back (which would obviously be difficult because of momentum), he simply needed to move his arm slightly lower or higher which, as a person who sees everything in slow motion could very well do
@@sesamesprinklesThe problem with that is that Omni Man might’ve still grabbed him because he’s a highly skilled fighter with instincts and can take a hit just to get ahold of Red if necessary. Red’s best strategy would had to have been to get everyone out of that small space ASAP and buy them at least a few minutes to gather themselves before trying to take on someone that dangerous.
Absolutely no one who knows how to throw a competent punch does so like you described. That right there is a hay maker. You do have to put weight behind the punch but not your whole body weight and momentum behind it. You can still punch plenty hard without doing some kinda slow heavy duty falcon punch you have to heavily commit to. In fact most of the power from a decent punch can come from the snap.
I'm with you on all your points! It drives me nuts every time one of these guys goes down in a movie and it just never makes sense. All your examples are great!
Another thing that annoys me is the whole “he is fast but his punches lack impact” like beach a dust particle at 20k km/h can ANNIHILATE a thick block of pure steel,now imagine a punch much faster than that! I know they do it to balance them,but man…it’s still frustrating lol
2:18 It was the dark phoenix, an entity that can warp time and space and existence. A speedster cannot do anything against the likes of Scarlet Witch and Jean Grey because of their magical potential.
My dude, you could be a reality bender and there’s no way you would move an object to obstruct the trajectory of an opponent you CANNOT SEE OR PREDICT.
@@KeertikaAndFallenTree Okay and ?What are u gonna do against the entities who are next to TOAA and negate the concept of death itself ?( Scarlet Witch and Jean grey) Also, what about the permanent magical field inside which you cannot enter ?(eg. Magneto's force field Quicksilver failed to get in) during X Men Apocalypse.
@@JitendraSingh-lr4nu I never denied this would be able to stop them. But in the specific example we saw, it wasn’t a force field that acted, but the character that made a decision which would be impossible unless they were able, on top of their magical prowess, to think, act and react at the same speed. This is ludicrous.
@@KeertikaAndFallenTree Jean Grey had an invisible field around her as we saw in Dark Phoenix when she went against Skrulls. Also, the concept of space and time doesn't apply against Wanda, Jean, Franklin Richards, etc.
@@JitendraSingh-lr4nu she never demonstrated in the movie that she can negate concepts or even just control space or time. She's just mediocre magician, and still would have gotten oneshotted by Quicksilver
I'm more bothered by the character being a moron than by the writers having to bend physics. One of the early Flash episodes had Flash specifically told "don't make eye contact" with Rainbow Raider. So what does Barry do, like 20 seconds later? Slam RR up against a wall and do the "in your face" thing, and predictably get mind-controlled, exactly as Cisco had warned him not to. I suppose his idiocy DOES explain why he would hook up with his sister...
My headcanon is that all speedsters are bored out of their gourds and also all former theater kids. There's no other way to explain the clearly intentional slip ups that only serve to add drama to the situation.
Air? There’s no air. He’s faster then air. As soon as Omni man moved 1 millimeter, he could have stopped his punch, went home, did laundry, wrote a novel, come back, draw pictures on his face with a marker, rigged the room with traps, ran to china to get the ancient dagger of whatever, came back, stabbed his eyes, 1,000 times each, learned a new language, phase his finger through is heart and brain , jumbled all of his organs, and have time to make pancakes for everyone. Lol. Well, With proper writing at least. But then I guess we just wouldn’t have a show at that point
@@AlexxxPerales air is everywhere. Even if he's faster than air, he's moving the air in front of him. The air in front still has to move. That's why you see air compression in front of an object causing a sonic boom or orbital entry.
I think the “conical” theory behind it is that all speedsters rely to heavy on their speed. In most instances the speedsters move like trains where they only do the same move of running behind and hitting, or constantly moving to the front of the target(cus they’re too fast) but what happens is they hyper focus when running on a given area or target and aren’t aware of their surroundings, which is why they almost always end up getting hit from the side. Being that fast has the downside of being easily predictable as well, which is why they always get caught, if they only focus on attack (like red rush) they aren’t prepared for someone to grab them, like a self inflicted sucker punch, if that makes sense. Just the logic I use for my writing
That’s also why Mikari? The speedster from the eternal is the only good one. She has really dynamic movements, but she’s also not limited by human limitations
I think you are giving speedsters the max op, tho they are 'nerfed' for balance reasons. I feel like they are not always in 'super speed mode' otherwise they wouldn't be able to talk or interact with anyone. Lastly I kinda feel like it could be somewhat like they can only do so much at a time, like they have to turn super speed on and off because yes like many other superpowers if you go too far with it they could be overpowered. Idk thats my random thoughts on it.
I agree with most of your points, but it’s been proven and stated many times that homelander is faster than A-train in every single way. He just doesn’t show it. There’s a reason A-Train didn’t just flee the 7 after his first major F ups, and it’s because he knew homelander would not only find him, but he couldn’t outrun him. I also believe Omni man is faster than red rush, Omni man traveled hundreds of thousands maybe even millions of light years across the universe in the span of like 2 weeks. That is unfathomable speed.
Unpopular opinion: speedsters are OVERRATED by fans. The whole “they are untouchable” thing only works when speedsters are hundreds or thousands times faster than their opponents which sounds pretty ridiculous and isn’t always the case. You’re ALWAYS untouchable if any of your stats is so much more superior no matter if it’s speed or strength/IQ/skills. On top of that speedsters aren’t OP if speed is the ONLY thing that’s boosted. For example speedsters wouldn’t do anything to superdurable dude: any attempt of impact will harm the speedster itself. Speedster can actually be harmed by their own speed. DC literally had to create Speedforce for making speedsters OP and Speedforce isn’t just superspeed but an entire semimagic power system with protection/time travel/electric powers. Speedsters in DC aren’t speedsters they’re f-ing magicians.
I think Marvel was smart having very few speedsters in their universe, besides Quicksilver, and the ones that do exist are mostly in the “cosmic” side of things. Whereas, in DC the only explanation for how everyone is fast enough to react to The Flash, while being slow enough to get tagged by Batman, is plot armor. It has to be that way, or there wouldn’t be a story. Speedsters are more trouble than they’re worth.
@@ditrix3731 who would win a baseball player or a baseball? The fastest recorded pitch in baseball was clocking in at 105.8 mph (169.1 km/h). which is comparable to a car traveling at around 241 km/h, which is faster than most highway speed limits! A baseball is definitely faster than a baseball player, but that doesn't mean a baseball player can't hit it.
@@superkingarmaan9875 and a baseball travels in a predictable path. If it’s a speedster, they can spontaneously change trajectories at any time and easily react to anyone slower than them.
You are completely right. Also: 1)When I watched I did not notice that Red Rush could block Omni Man's punched. And it makes it have even less sense, Omni man shouldn't even be able to crush his head like that,(and red rush should be able to damage Omniman(especially the eyes), him blocking his punch means he's in the same league as Immortal in terms of durability and strength). Red Rush should have defeated Omniman and be the main character(would have made show watchable, Invincible is a wimpy crybaby) 2)Quicksilver should have been able to just pull his leg out of earth like it's mud, simply because how strong and durable he must be to move at such speeds. Also Apocalypse shouldn't even be able to overpower him or break his leg(he would just have pushed himself up) 3)Also Quicksilver "falling" while running super fast(or standing) is absolutely ridiculous 4)maybe the only reasonable thing is Homelander vs A-train, as far as I understand Homelander has faster reaction, is stronger, more durable, can fly(and faster than A-train runs). His only disadvantage is lower muscle contraction speed, but again, not by much
You are absolutely right. In old DC Comics Superman used to be as fast as Flash, that would be an explanation why he is mightier than him, or in the DC RPG the really powerful heroes have extremely high reaction values, so it is imaginable that they could catch Flash - but otherwise ... no chance. A good, rather realistic depiction of a fight between a speedster and a Superman-like fighter can be found in the comic series ‘Uber’, in which a speedster ‘cuts’ the stronger fighter with a diamond knife so many times in a short space of time that the latter's skin can no longer withstand the enormous blood pressure from the inside.
Yes in most cases speedsters are untouchable its just that a suprise attack is still possible, if they simply just don't notice something then they can't stop it.
A-Train situation irritates me the most. Homelander got destroyed by Maeve who is far slower, but A-Train wouldn’t be able to hurt Homelander himself? But the metal pipe is all it took lol
you ppl underestimate homelanders power quite a bit. - super hearing, eyesight, flyes looks trough objects, almost unkillable, ultra strong and most importantly - laser eyes at the speed of light. combine this and the moment homelander spots A-train he is dead. however he has to lose so the rest of the plot could happen
It has already been proven and stated many times that homelander is faster than A-train, there’s a reason A-train didn’t run away after his major screw ups. Homelander is way faster than A-Train, and both of them know it, homelander just doesn’t use his super speed because he simply doesn’t need to.
Well vs Meave i would guess he was Holding him self. And i agree that Metal thing was really weird(But we can just blame director for that stupid season finale) Against A-Train there is no doubt. HomeLander is FASTER than A-Train and stronger than him. It was comproved on couple episodes. If was a confront A-Train wouldn't win, but if was to run away and have a new life or be safe he could do it for sure
My interpretation is that Red Rush wasn't mentally prepared for his hand to just bounce off. He was either mentally stunned for a fraction of a second longer than usual, or he physically damaged his arm in a way that slowed his response. Add onto that that Omni-man only reacts that quickly in the one case where Red Rush hits him, and I think it's fair to believe that Omnians react more quickly to painful stimulus than they can consciously process.
Yeah the problem with speedsters is that writers either don't understand how speed works from a scientific basis, or they make the power more of a On-Off thing and the hero an idiot. But when they show people like Quicksilver and how they ALWAYS see the world around them it is inexcusable to just have a "but he fumbled" moment. The only times when speedsters can lose should be because they just wanted to die
Omni-Man is fast too, not as fast as Red Rush of course, but...Omni-Man got lucky. Once he got hold of Red Rush Omni-Man's strength took over. Now, I do believe that you are correct. Speedsters should also be super-strong and very durable in order for their bodies to survive the extreme stress of moving that fast. Bullets shouldn't hurt them either, because running into a pebble in mid air kicked up by a truck would act like a bullet.
@@habibosaye At that time we don't know Red Rush's full powers or weaknesses. Maybe at that point Rush was too tired. In the actual episode Rush seemed tired after he saved all those people and they threw up.
@@starbrand3726 Still, before Omniman put pressure on his head, he could’ve just moved his head. He still had to have some adrenaline rushing. It’s not like he was in a headlock.
I personally have only ever liked the Flash in the Znyder cut, because you can get the sense that the only thing holding him back is himself, he stumbles out of clumsiness and misses opportunities due to being afraid, which is a defect and a weakness that seems reasonable considering the power this character has. But once he realizes that he needs to lock in and simply unleashes everything, he even bent time itself under his will, It's a great showing of how powerful Flash should be once he's in his game.
The issue with A Train in the boys is that homelander has better speed feats than A Train. A trains top speed is said to be Mach3/1000mph. Homelander mean while was able to grab teddy and butcher and get them out of a house after C4 had already started exploding as evidenced by the flash if light after buther releases the detonator. Which puts homelander at faster than 8092m/s which equates to 18,101mph.
If I were to ever write my own comic script, there would either have to be ZERO speedsters, or they would have to be weak af to make them viable. Literally super speed beats so many other things just because "already done, gone to lunch" should be a thing for every speedster. AoU was the worst I've ever seen a speedster at. Then the current era of X-Men cinematics has him being ridiculously OP as he should be. The whole reason speedsters get treated the way they do is because otherwise there'd be no plot left to push forward, because everything would get done in ten LITERAL seconds, and then it would just be the fluff of hanging out off duty after the big crisis is over.
0:31 Red Rush Fucked up. He should have only stayed on the Defensive Making sure Omniman could not hit anyone. Note: that everyone started to Die after Red Rush got taken out. And you'll have to Remember Omni Man himself is Very Fast. Think like Superman VS Flash. Super Man can Still see him Moving at super speed and can somewhat keep up with Flash. But Flash is Still Much faster.
I think the issue is this: Unless the speedster has additional abilities (like phasing, striking with enough force to bypass durability, or manipulating energy), a juggernaut’s (like omniman) durability and equal reaction time would give them a significant edge. Knowing an outcome or perceiving time faster than someone else doesn’t mean you have the reaction time or ability to react in time. For example: seeing into the future and knowing the enemy’s next move, doesn’t mean you have the ability to stop or counter it.
Omni man also has super speed thoough. Remember he moved so fast that he destroyed an entire race and their planet in under a minute by moving so fast that he destroyed the surrounding areas by flying past. That being said most speedsters should also have a set of secondary powers or mutations in order to have super speed. Denser skin thats resistant to heat other wise their bodies would just break down from running into air molecules. Super strength to be able to generate that speed. And actually a few others (depending on the speedster most should have some control over intertia as well).
Red Rush and Green Ghost really did have no excuse to die in that fight, one is Fast the other can't be touched, Maneuvering and battlefield control are their main fighting styles, how did they screw up so badly? Because the writers said so.
Considering that those attributes are possible in rush and ghost, viltrumites have probably fought similar enemies in the past. Though red rush still should have just taken everyone far away and strategized.
I liked the DCAU Flash where if he used too much of the speedforce he literally gets sucked into it and eventually gets atomized if nobody is there to immediately pull him out.
he wouldn’t get atomized he’d just be stuck in the speed force. but yea the DCAU did a pretty damn good job with Flash, same with Young Justice as well for Wally. He’s not as fast as Barry, only going at Mach 5 (I think) and couldn’t instantly decelerate once he got going, effectively needing to gradually slow down or crash into something.
They had Flash jobbing a lot in Justice League back in the day. I had to explain to people that he wasn't weak when he did stuff like trip over the Joker's marbles. Later on they did him right when he beat Brainiac-Luthor and beat up the Watchtower. The creators said they had nerfed him early on to keep him from taking over the show.
@InfiniteTranscendence Another episode that I think Flash works well in that shows his clear strengths and weaknesses is the one where the League gets possessed by a hive mind of Serpent people after Hawk Girl smashed the statue they were in habiting.
Not really, in case of certain characters. They are able to perceive and move close to a speedster (superman level characters) in which can throw off/surprise a speedster. Like when the flash fought Superman after they resurrected Superman in the movies
Quicksilver vs Jean makes sense to me because at the end of the day, Quicksilver brain still needs to send the electrical impulses throughout his body and as an omega level mutant there is no doubt in my mind that Jean would be able to sense that and act accordingly. I think of it less as Jean having super speed and more of an "oh wow any neurological phenomena really is at her disposal, that's crazy."
Out of these I think Omni-Man vs Red Rush does have some merit to it. Red Rush not running off to tell Cecil was a matter of him making the call between trying to keep everyone alive vs get to Cecil. They had no comms, and we don't know Red Rush's max speed. So he must have realized he could protect his team or get Cecil, not both and he chose his team. We obviously don't get all the details of what Red Rush is doing since he's just a blur but its not likely he was blocking Omni-Man's attacks, he was probably striking Omni-Man from the side to reduce the force of his punches and Omni-Man probably pulled his punch to a stop when he lost most of the force of his punch. Red Rush would have gotten splattered if he tried to block directly or tried to strike Omni-Man's strike from the front. As for grabbing Red Rush, Omni-Man simply bated him into the punch. As soon as Red Rush committed to the punch Omni-Man was already trying to grab him. Red Rush clearly wasn't focusing on a potential counter so it slipped his attention.
I came up with the term "power amnesia" to describe the phenomenon of comic book characters doing what you're describing here, which is basically just forgetting their powers for plot reasons, and it was actually largely because of speedster characters getting caught by enemies or attacks that they shouldn't have been. I think it happens largely because of the power creep that has occurred in comic book characters over the years, where the writers keep having to increase their feats to keep the audience interested, which ultimately hurts the stories they're trying to tell because they wind up having to do things like this to add a sense of danger to situations.
Yes guys I understand that these other character have some form of super speed. But they are not shown to have consistent speed reaction. Omni-Man has been shown to have speed reaction before but then he will get hit by a robot, or when he was hit by members of the guardians. If he could catch Red Rush's hand then he should never be able to be hit.
Yah, that's always been an issue with feats related to a lot of OP characters. It's why I don't read Superman, because he should never be hit, and Darkseid shouldn't ever lose either.
In Onmimans case, hes 400some billion FTL, he could see Red Rush easy, but being able to hit him would likely require some foresight due to the acceleration needed for Smart Atoms to build up.
I completely understand where you're coming from but you gotta understand that issue not only goes for Speedster's but ALL types of powerful characters. Characters that can hold black holes are all of a sudden overpowered by some city level villain. Characters that can control molecules all of a sudden can't stop some rando. Characters who can LITERALLY do whatever they want get beaten up like it's nothing. It's a problem that's unfortunately been around for a long time. Hopefully people like you will bring more attention to it so more consistent stories can be written. 😁👍
I think they were trying to do a thing where he was waiting for red rush to punch a certain area with his arm ready to grab that area instinctively. He can move fast but doesn't have the brain speed to react in the moment so he has to think and prepare before hand. Some inner monologue would of really made his speed reaction make more sense.
Homlander is actually fast though. That's the thing. Yes A-Train is fast but I'm pretty sure Homlander is faster than him which makes no sense.
@@Velocity_YT he's not. ATrain move Hughie so fast that Homelander couldn't see or hear it. Then again, Homelanders feats are so inconsistent. He can see through anything but Zinc and still couldn't hit Hughie crawling in vents. Do his eye beams block his line of sight? If so, no reason he couldn't fly up and one shot.
A speedster being killed by bullets is as stupid as Superman being killed by a pocket knife
It's a stupid as superman losing to batman in any fashion.
@@CamberRockerCamber but batman must win so that we as humans can feel validated lol
@@CamberRockerCamberkryptonite:
@gregorius9251 you know some times I wonder that like he has insane reaction time should could he have just not backed away a little and then lasered Batman
@gregorius9251 xray vision to scan for kryptonite at a distance, then heat vision their heads off before getting into kryptonite range. All within 1 millisecond, as Superman has superspeed.
A series be like "This speedster can move 5 times the speed of light" *Can't react an attack that moves at 40 MPH*
yeah
Choosing that criminal ju in the Flash movie instead of the guy from the TV series was why it blew so hard.
And with most oppositions, you don't even need to be faster than light, just faster than a neuron.
No one can hit you if their brain signals are statues compared to you.
@jocosesonata 😂
the logical conclusion is that the attack was not moving at just 40 mph
"I CAN MOVE SO FAST, NOT EVEN TIME CAN CATCH UP!"
*Proceeds to get folded by ice man.*
To be fair, Iceman has actually frozen time itself
@@tsu658 How often does he do that tho? The dude seems to be a recurring problem for Flash.
@@a-buttonace That's captain cold not iceman. Iceman would make sense being able to beat a speed force user, captain cold makes no sense at all since he just has a fucking cold gun hahaha
The problem not only with speedsters but superpowers in general is that as a writer you have to set limits on how they work and easy to follow, but almost no one does that and the powers work in whatever the plot needs to, causing inconsistencies along the way.
american comic book writing in a nutshell: total ass.
i think quicksilver from Age of Ultron was done well, his death was just dumb
I've been barking at this to anyone who'll listen for a while, now. Minimums and maximums need to be established and followed consistently. While I love Al Ewing's Immortal Thor, he recently took a few pages to sort of joke about the sort of people who argue about which superhero or villain would win in a fight against another. Thor himself brings the topic up while fighting Storm; Storm conjures the crushing weight of Jupiter's atmosphere and manages to force Thor down to one knee--and then Thor makes the remark that he can handle anything he needs to handle in order to do what's right, as he stands up, resisting that crushing atmosphere.
...The irony being, that Al has forgotten something or is perhaps just ignorant of something--or else, it's part of his joke: Just a few short years ago, Thor was flying in and out of the Sun for hours at a time to collect fragments of Mjolnir, and the internal pressure of the Sun (nevermind the HEAT) is orders of magnitude greater than Jupiter's atmospheric pressure.
I can't really blame him, necessarily; trying to keep track of each writer's feats for Thor and making sure your own Thor run doesn't make him look too weak or too powerful compared to past iterations would be maddening, at this point. They should simply set new standards with defined minimum and maximum limits and follow those from now on, rather than trying to catalogue every time that Hulk resisted being torn apart by a black hole or that Silver Surfer used enough of the Power Cosmic to obliterate multiple star systems.
Exactly this.
And as a writer you can do whatever you want with them you can buff them and nerf them
Inertia, impact, friction, slipping, air resistance are always disconsidered though.
they wouldnt be able to breath any air going that fast and would all just pass out lol
don’t you think that speedsters bodies have adapted to some of those things? I mean it wouldn’t make sense if it was other wise..
@@flyesthuman That is the problem Speedsters can't logically work. Everytime you will find a problem. Like how their brains work, how their body can obtain and metabolize enough carbs to actually be biological thing
Flash explains this by just using 'speed force' which is basically like magic
Some people forgetting that in fiction there's fictional things.
They make them do the only thing they couldn't realistically do: carry anyone to safety without killing them
X-Men silver did point that out in the magneto prison escape I think? He held the back of his head, told him something and went full throttle
That isn't even realistic. Moving a person at that speed could actually kill them.
@@utteero True. But even moving at that speed themselves would create a shockwave around them that would kill everyone around.
Which is why I appreciated MCU QS saying he had to hold the back of their heads or else their necks would snap due to the extreme acceleration.
@@Amunium It could be a dramatic development for the speedsters: they can solve situations only by killing or destroying, not saving
There was an issue of The Flash comic where he was in a theater watching a movie and felt pressure on the back of his neck , everything froze around him and when he grabbed at what was pushing on his neck , it was a bullet there was a shooter firing at the movie goers . He got up collected the bullets in the air so they wouldn't strike anyone . Apparently his reflexes kick in and he goes into Super speed automatically . Why Pietro was killed by gun fire , always surprised me . Thanks
prieto is not flash
simply as
Especially cause quick silver follows red rush rules. He’s always going that fast. Hence why he’s an ass
@@kero232 Pietro is still faster than a bullet
I can't recall the issue no. Can you tell me, if I need to read that? I have read a lot Flash comic book but I might have missed this particular one
@@MylesKillis how is it even possible to always be in fast mode and still interact with everybody and everything just fine
comics bullshit, i dont buy it, he speaks, talks etc just fine just like everybody else
literally makes no sense
I agree. Every time a speedster gets punched in the face by a non-speedster, I am confused. In the flash tv show, Barry was moving so fast, he made an explosion last an entire episode, yet he can’t get out of the way of a punch
THIS!!! IT FRIGGIN' DRIVES ME NUTS THEY DO THAT WITH THE FLASH / SPEEDSTERS! Apologies for screaming. 😅
That bomb episode was insane😂🔥🔥🤌🏾
Cw flash is the dumbest superhero show EVER!
@@annabrenda8694well he was smart in the first few seasons but made him dumber due to the plot :/
@@DravenCollins-s4x I thought so too until I re-watched some scenes from the earlier seasons. Flash has ALWAYS been dumb and the show has ALWAYS been bad. Just that the first seasons were comparatively better than subsequent ones. It got progressively worse with each new season
New theory red rush actually got bored had a micro nap and forgot to set his alarm to wake back up before omniman caught his hand.
Yeah...
what's funny is that's technically the flash's weakness, he slows his brain down because if he didn't he'd go crazy, that is why he slips or gets hit by traps so easily
I hate when they just throw out, “he moves as fast as light!” Without considering what that means. If someone moves that fast the first bit of air they hit would go off like 100 nuclear bombs
Omni man demonstrated this while destroying a city, flying around at the speed of light.
@@xeedflarian9748 yeah, it would be like that, but much faster and more destructive. like, every inch of air would be a super nuke, not like a minor nuke on a couple buildings. and the speed of light would cross the entire planet like 10 times per second, which would look faster also. thats a really cool scene, and it only shows a small fraction of light speed.
Not to mention, they wouldn't be able to see anything during that speed, because light doesn't have enough time to reflect off of things and into their retinas. It's the same problem with "time stopping".
Actually, literally infinite power is required to move at exactly the speed of light. They could literally destroy the whole universe by going extremely fast.
@@Chocomunchie yep, that's why speedsters are my least favourite characters, other powers you understand that are based on breaking a few natural laws or outright magic, but speedsters are like breaking almost every natural law lmao
CW flash's weakness is the desire to STOP AND TALK
ollie points this out too
@@0biwan7everyone points this out lol
CW Flash is the worst show. He can react when bullet shooting at him, but show no reaction to a punch.
"There's nowhere to run!!!"😂😂
@@enwerd7050madvocate😅
Dash from the Incredibles moves faster than you give him credit for. For example, he would have had to move around 650 mph to be able to place the tack on his teacher's chair without the camera catching his actions.
Yeah, and that was from a sitting position. 0-650, instantly.
@@fastral7769 it's his acceleration that's impressive
Maybe that is like his sprint. His normal solid pace would be a bit lower. One he could maintain. Maybe like 400mph
Yeah but that's a clear outlier. Every other portrayal of his speed is like, 200-300 mph.
Classroom cameras are not that fast. 30fps I presume. That's why the teacher was still having a hard time proving his point.
If this is a series we need a problem with telekinetics.
Absolutely no reason why someone with telekinesis couldn't just stop anyone's body from functioning. Air getting to lungs, blood circulation, etc.
Nah, I'm gonna use this super power to throw rocks at you.
i think a series would make for some good videos
@BaysTalks05 like, why do Darth Vader and any of the Jedi not ever have a force choke battle?
Seems like an obvious contest of who is stronger in the force... Or just who has more oxygen in their blood...
@@Loreweavver well for Star Wars it is basically explained like this. Force users can protect themselves from other force users influencing them with the force, using the force. And the further away something is, the harder it is to influence it with the force. So the guy protecting his own body with the force, has the home advantage. So they usually resort to throwing stuff at each other, like random objects, lighting or basically a shockwave, with the force push The second thing is, that any and all force use requires focus, wich detracts from their ability to react to other things. Like getting a Lightsabers swung at them, or getting shot at. The inverse is also true. So doing fancy tricks with the force during combat usually isn't a good idea. So they again rather resort to doing quick stuff, like throwing a rock or something.
@clancykohl thanks nerd. None of that actually addresses the question.
A force choke out would be the most basic test of who the force likes more.
@@Loreweavver spoon feeding it is. You know how people don't like getting choked? That's why they use their space magic not to get choked. Only insane people would agree on a choke battle. And as long as not both guys play nice, the second guy possibly doesn't get to choke the first guy, as the first guy is already swinging their lightsaber at the second guy. And if the space magic protection isn't strong enough, so that the second guy can choke the first guy effortlessly, the first guy already lost regardless. And however you fight the battle, the force always decides the outcome anyway, because that is how that universe works. You could even agree on an arm wrestling match, doesn't matter.
I think the best use of a speedster character I’ve seen so far has been in the MHA Vigilante spin-off. There’s this guy O’Clock who’s quirk is super speed, but he has a weakness: when he thinks at super speed, his brain consumes oxygen faster, so he has to be smart and precise with how he uses it, otherwise he’ll suffocate. I think this is great because it gives a clear weakness which can be exploited for believable ways to defeat them, and also allows us to see them making interesting strategies to overcome said weakness.
They actually did something really clever with Red Rush in invincible. If you look at the animation closely, you can see Omni man is paying attention to- and tracking the pattern of- Red Rush when he hits him. Omni man doesn’t grab when he sees red rush’s arm, he grabs before red rush gets there, effectively predicting his next move, which is why- even in slow motion- it would’ve caught red rush by surprise. Omni man pretended he didn’t know red rush was coming- and preemptively grabbed the air. You can see this in the animation, and by looking at Omni Man’s eyes. It’s a small but important detail.
Also, we also need to understand that Viltrumites have a heightened sense of reaction time and overall speed- and were effectively made for combat. They have been trained to fight the strongest and fastest of creatures. That is their whole purpose. So Omni man catching red rush may be impressive from a human perspective, but that’s standard Viltrumite reaction time- and battle tactics- and not that impressive.
That’s exactly what i thought. In the Flash series he outrun the explosion of a atomic bomb! The world is (almost) standing still for him and the other speedsters. How can someone who isn’t a speedster even hit him?
Exactly. Characters with super speed are op and should almost never be able to be touched.
@BaysTalks05 they should be perpetually (the flash at least) phasing through objects too and can't get their leg caught or something stupid.
They would not be able to even have the knowledge that he is there. You would have to have a sixth sense super power or be able to see the future to know where to even throw a punch. Plus the speedster could just phase and it would go right throw him
This episode is a masterpiece, it was perfect and we see flash at almost full potential, but the serie suck, he is weaker in next episode, even in the previous one, it's not logic and it made me stop the show
Superman and omniman are practically juiced up speedsters. Homelander though shouldn’t be able to even get close to A-train.
There is at least an excuse for the DC Speedsters, they purposefully slow down their perception as to not have everything be constantly running in slow motions. They also zone out while travelling as to not feel like they are taking ages during their use of super speed. Pretty smart IMO, because I definitely wouldn't be trying to focus all the time if EVERYTHING was playing at 100x slow mo.
while true most of the time, this shouldnt be a thing in scenarios when fighting for your life, thats when they should be fully focusing to avoid making mistakes. i mean, how many times are they gonna get caught off guard before they learn that they should keep full focus throughout the whole battle?
Everyone with superspeed should have this to some degree.
@@lytebluestudios Not really. Perception of time and speed of conscious thought isn't the same thing. In fact your brain can increase the speed of conscious thought when you are doing something engaging and entertaining, but you will feel like time flies by. What speedsters need is vastly altered perception of time, to prevent them from getting bored.
@@libertyprime1614 can you elaborate on that, I didn't get it really. Any other speedster should be able to react and see everything in slow motion or otherwise they will stumble every time running
@@ueiddd Yes, speedsters need to be able to think faster, they need increased speed of conscious thought, but it doesn't mean their perception of time must change.
My point is that our perception of time is independent to the speed of conscious thought.
Einstein's explained it better “sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it feels like a minute; sit on a hot stove for a minute, and it feels like many hours. That's relativity.”?
This is an example of how perception of time can be altered without affecting the speed of conscious thought.
If that didn't help imagine you are doing a very boring task for an hour, your mind not into it, you are not into it, and it isn't particularly hard just boring, compare it to the hour of playing your favourite game or other activity, which is very engaging.
Without using a clock, if asked to estimate how much time passed after each activity people will overestimate time wasted on the boring task and underestimate time for the game, despite the fact that your brain is probably more stimulated playing the game, and processed more information for the same time.
If a realistic speedster touches you while on slow Mo, it would be catastrophic. Their fingers alone would be like a bullet fired from the a gun piercing through your skin. Getting punched multiple times would be equivalent to getting hit with a grapeshot from a canon.
yea a 100% haymaker would spin someone's head around so much , it'd be more graphic than a mortal kombat move ;/
But catastrophic to who? An egg travelling at 1000mph will still be smashed to bits when it hits a wall. If a speedster isn't much more durable than the character they hit, they'll simply smash themselves to bits.
So if they get beat to a pulp in normal speed, being faster won't help
Beings like Hulk, Thor, or Superman would survive that no issue.
@@Thecoolestnumberone Not if the writer's don't want them to. If they say that Captain America can kill Superman by hitting him with his shield, then Captain America can kill Superman by hitting him with his shield.
@@magmaticgames That's not true. 😂
"Hi I'm Barry Allen, the fastest man alive"
Proceeds to get shot by a damn bullet 😮💨
Speedsters in shambles when a guy with boomerangs shows up
I have a terrible idea for how to balance a speedster in a superhero story: don't. Go the comedy rout and make every one else on the superhero team incompetent wildly incompetent in new and creative ways and constantly need to be saved by the speedster.
Superman type character is getting shot at with bullets made of their “kryptonite” but believe their normal and just stands there, so the speedster has to swap out each bullet midair with normal ones
@@whotheo4878 That's a little more "tumbler" than what I was thinking but you get it.
That is the One Punch Man strategy. xD
You should love steel compounders from Scadrial.
@@Mark-in8ju Whenever I can, and always.
Graphic Audio Sanderson is so fucking good. Give them your money, you wont regret it. Sazed's voice lives rent free in my head.
Spoilers The Final Empire:
ua-cam.com/video/hTnsf1dS0m0/v-deo.html&ab_channel=Theorchero
Here’s something that could make sense.
Acceleration.
Obviously for speed, you first need to start up as seen with the A-Train clip where he isn’t moving quickly at first but once he gets up and running, he moves lightning fast out. For any speedster, they need to first accelerate.
This line of thinking could theoretically apply to fast reaction speeds too as they need to accelerate their thinking if you can understand what I'm putting down.
Though, you can really chalk up all failures of speedsters to poor writing that makes it extremely inconsistent in terms of how their powers exactly work…
That’s actually a really smart rule for speedsters.
The thing I really dislike about speedsters, well besides how overpowered it is to move at the speed of light, is their ability to start and stop on a dime. Nice that the Boys seemed to actually give some thought to that.
Nope,acceleration has nothing to do with it.They even see things in slow motion,so it's not just their momentum that's making them fast.Sure,normal humans also have to move fast in order to avoid or get to place quicker but,the fact that they are a thousand times faster makes their movements(while in a hurry or to save someone) makes it that much more faster than usual.I hope this makes sense.
@@exerpachuau5486 Maybe they need to slow down their thinking to understand the people around them. A conversation will last forever if they don't slow superfast thinking down. To speed their mind up they need to accelerate again.
If you want to use that argument, non-speedsters would also need to accelerate. Who should do it faster?
The “Avengers” Quicksilver thing still pisses me off to this day. I guess we didn’t see that coming. 😏
Avengers quicksilver was a blur, not someone at the speed of light. Bullets still travelled faster than him as it was shown by a cop shooting his arm.
Right, Avengers Quicksilver is actually slow when compared to most other speedsters. Also, the Jean Gray thing, considering she's one of the world's most powerful telekinetics as well as a telepath, her anticipation of Quicksilver's movements isn't all that unbelievable. Her telekinesis is powerful enough to affect things at the molecular level. She could probably feel him moving before he actually moved. Not to mention, she could probably hear him thinking.
MCU Quicksilver was unfortunately just a victim of a licensing dispute between Disney and FOX at the time. Had FOX not used the character first in Days of Future Past, Disney wouldn't have felt pressured to kill off their own Quicksilver to avoid confusion between the two versions
I thought mcu quicksilver doesnt have light speed
Yeh it's not far fetch that jean can think at those speeds she is a super powerfull spsic and even Charles can control thousands of peoplo at once it's a lot of brain power
Thor Ragnarok: Thor *GOD OF THUNDER* Gets *electrocuted* by a device on his neck
God of Hammers
that was crazy
It was poison iirc
Why do people keep bringing that up. He wasn't electrocuted, it was literally a neurotoxin. It affected his nerves, you can literally even see his veins pops out to a greenish color
bro is wired in DC and that thing was giving off AC. He had no chance, really.
nah fr CW flash had me CRASHING OUT bro lost to a guy with a gun soooo many times its actually sad
You forgot the speedster in the Eternals, that was a well done portrayal in using speed in a fight!
Ikaris still caught her by the fucking neck!
I guess I wasn't fast enough, because I was just about to mention her!
I know right😂@@Lord_D33
This applies in real life too with us humans, one guy got shot with one bullet he dies, another guy got shot 9 times he still living normally..what doesn't make sense to u exactly? What u want a 5 seconds show?
@@coffeeemate6741 huh?
My big thing with speedsters is that they generally don't have invulnerability or enhanced durability, so how can they survive hitting something at the speeds they do? They should receive the same force put into the blow themselves.
So if the Flash punched someone, especially a Kryptonian at a speed where the world appears frozen he should destroy his entire arm.
They have to have some form a durability because their skin would melt off when running if not
The Flash actually wouldn't destroy his arm since he has a speed force barrier/ aura that protects him from turning into a mushy pancake like normal humans would. That's why he's able to do crazy stunts like punching people who have invincibility. Also if you look up one of The Flash's moves, one of his abilities is called the Infinite Mass Punch.
Part of ANY power-set is "not harmed by own power". Otherwise, all superhero stories would take place in the hospital.
Doctor: "Mr. Allen here friction-burned all his skin off. Mr. Summers over there has no eyelids. Mr. Parker centrifuged his intestines out of his rectum while swinging across Times Square. Ms. Grey crushed her own brain while trying to lift a car with it."
The flash has a speed force aura that protects him and the world around him if anything moves that fast the earth would burst into flames but other speedsters don't have a comic explanation
@@white_morphsplays8139yeah but the speed force doesn’t protect him from that. There was a moment where he punched a woman and broke his hand because she was too durable. And in the show Barry punched his bully and he broke his hand because he hardened his skin. Either way it goes the speed force is inconsistent as heck.
4:16 Your Point Is Too Proven And Real.
The whole point was that Omniman was fast too, just like Superman
Agreed, the maker of this video seemingly fails to understand how fast Omniman is
That’s the only problem with this is that in Invincible red rush was actually smart like when he just tied up that guy in 2 seconds while on a date. And in the scene he dies you can see everyone moving in slow motion. Because he grabs him and kills him in a second.
I mean they should have went the comic route to avoid this, none of the guardians barely even SAW omni man when he struck in the comics, each guardian got a panel death scene not a whole 30 seconds of fighting lol
Also Homeland isn't slow, remember the scene when Butcher sets off explosives in the house and wakes up at a completely different house and sees his wife. Homelander and Omniman are fast enough to catch their respected speedster off guard.
@trancendedmindpalace Good point. He's have to have inhuman reaction time as well as superspeed to do that
And even if A-Train is faster, there's the psychological aspect of A-Train being intimidated by Homelander. So even if he is faster, he might not think he is
that slow ass explosion😂
homelander probably just saw butcher about to press the button and just tanked it so butcher wouldn't die
@@NLT1734 The thing people forget is that fear is the highest power you can instill in someone. Once you do that, they'll likely never have the courage to challenge you. Homelander instilled a lot of fear into A-Train.
I love how you brought up Dash from The Incredibles. Amazing character who doesn't really have the traditional "super speed" but is very fast. Fast enough to make it notable but not fast enough to be stupidly OP.
to be fair the nerf every other power in this same way, like they'll have a character with super strength (which has to be paired with super durability otherwise they wouldn't survive their own attacks) but they get injured by normal stuff like a brick hitting them or something
Super strength and super speed have to be paired with super durability for both to make sense. Sadly it's not usually the case for speed.
@utteero exactly. A speedster would need super durability just to survive. The sheer friction of him moving would rip his skin off and shatter every bone in his body. He would also suffocate. So the fact that most speedsters aren't given some type of invulnerability makes 0 sense.
@@Azriel1932 super speed also needs super strength because they need those powerful legs to move at super speed otherwise it would their legs wouldn't be able to accelerate them to those speeds
@@kubomagico8853that is true assuming that they are moving fast through sheer power and not some "magic" like time compression/dilation.
A fly also sees everything in slow motion and still gets killed by my swatter.....
Exactly. Just because you see a truck heading your way doesn't mean you can alway dodge it.
but can you catch a fly by your hand? it's as simple as that, fly swatter travels very fast compared to a fly reaction speed but you won't catch a fly with just your hand unless you caught it off guard. with speedsters reaction speed, they would see a punch like it's not moving.
@@zrentyryeah but they are not gods, they can still fall for shock traps, those are light speed
To be fair flies don’t even recognise you as a threat. They merely fear moving objects without much thought.
speedsters aren flies
0:54 he wasnt blocking he was redirecting.
Still being able to redirect is pretty impressive and fast
Omg.... How tf did i never realize that was Red rush😭 💀
We can explain all of this with 2 words: plot armor
omniman wasnt focusing on red rush at first but after red rush saved the guardians multiple times he realized red rush should be the first to go and thats where red rush made the mistake of attacking omniman and omniman was fast enough to react to him.
red rush shouldve stayed with the role of supporting the guardians and bailing them when they are in danger instead of attacking omniman where he knows he cant hurt him.
its dogshit writing, dont think the writer actually thought of that
sorry dude but this is rubbish. Why cant invincible fans accept that Red Rush dying in that way was complete BS
I still disagree. Even if redrush lowered his guard... He should be able to dodge omni mans arms. Like come on is he punching while his eyes are closed?
@@bobking3085how? Omni man is clearly faster than red rush. Like it’s not even a debate he’s faster in every single way
@@pininja4981omni man is faster than red rush
You're assumption is that omniman is slow, he's not
Agreed. he aint slow. HE IS FTL+ OR MORE.
he is at tier 5A i think.
homelander 8A?
captain marvel 2A or 2C (shazam)
Omniman can fly at insane speeds, but he clearly isn't super fast in any other capacity (in the show anyway, I don't know the comics). Him beating Red Rush is the only time in the entire show he displays any kind of speed-react feat.
I disagree on 1:36 homelander is actually way faster than a train and been shown to be fast without needing to rely on pure flight if u seen the last episode of season 1 the boys not only could a train not kill homelander he wouldn’t be able to perception blitz him
Btw lets not downplay that last episode we clearly see homelander is able to react very fast and can be calculated faster than a train the whole starlight feat wasn’t actually moving at the speed of light they are just plasma beams and most of them were a train aim dodimg them
This. And I think the whole thing with A-Train and Homelander is that it's a fear factor. A train doesnt even think he could outrun, or escape Homelander. That doubt would get him killed by Homelander
@@MATSUDA51 could be
Same thing with writing RELIGIOUS FIGURES in HOLLYWOOD. Take METATRON, MICHAEL, GABRIEL, LUCIFER, all these characters throughout different pantheons were NERFED because in REAL LIFE, their FIGHTS wouldn't last a SECOND and HUMANS will NEVER be able to FIGURE OUT what HAPPENED. But ALAS, DRAMA SELLS in ART and not LOGIC. So it's allowed but LARPers must remember that in REALISTIC SCENES, OP is OP and cannot be NERFED.
Omni man is close to as fast as Red Rush, and what he did was notice that RR was hitting him from his blind spot every time so he knew where he’d be attacking next, that’s why he caught him without looking
Edit: Too many people, enough replying, Omni man IS fast enough to catch and kill RR, but by that logic he shouldn’t have had such a hard time killing the guardians so he’s the problem, that’s all. Case closed
While true, Red Rush is still shown in the same episode as being capable to run home change clothes and return. It doesn't really matter if his home was down the road, he's shown as being a lot faster than what Omniman did. My dude spent from his point of view hours for all we know and the only thing he could think about doing was hit him in the chest. Its just outright disrespectful.
From a narrative standpoint, if your point was to make the main villain outsmart a speedster, that was just careless.
@@fullestauto8912not only that but red rush,also blocked omniman's punch, they need to at least put a science expert as a director whenever making a speedster character.
It's crazy,even if omni man was 95% as fast as red rush,still shouldn't be able to touch him
@@zethembegallant2060 It's just logic. People will rationalize what they see or what is a reflection of their desired outcome. It's part and parcel of the problem.
People forget that these..."characters" are just something that someone pulled out of their ass and placed in an arbitrarily defined situation...to tell a story.
That's it. Everything that's written can be arbitrarily changed at a whim...because it's all pulled from someone's ass.
That's the power of being a creator.
People used to understand that.
Now? Not so much. There is no reason for Omni Man to even touch RR other than that's what the writer wanted to have happen. Period.
But see how OP rationalized it?
People were smarter once.
@@fullestauto8912 Think of dbz logic how characters are punching as fast as light yet we see every one of their moves omniman was fast enough to react to his moves it's just that they couldn't show it on super speed otherwise you wouldn't know what happened
Omni-man can fly at faster than light speeds. He may actually be capable of faster speeds than Red Rush. What gives Red Rush the edge is that he thinks a lot faster than Omni-man. But Omni-man only has to get lucky once.
"Is she able to think as super speed?" Yes actually. In Marvel the speed of thought IS the fastest thing there is. Xavier once had a telepathic conversation with Lilandra who was over 200 million light years away as if she was in the same room with him. In order to do that, his thoughts had to be moving at literally quadrillions of times the speed of light. Jean Grey is a stronger telepath than he is. So yes, she can think at super speed. I do agree that the MCU wasted Quicksilver though. Most of your video you are ignoring the powers of the other character. It is shown that Omni-Man himself can move at many times the speed of light as well. So, while Red Rush may have been faster than him, it wasn't by much.
My problem is more the fact that they don't make the other characters consistent. If they are shown to have super speed once, then they should always have it.
@@BaysTalks05 No character in comics is truly consistent. I'm not saying that is a good thing, because it isn't, but it is normal at this point.
Speed of thought is one thing, being able to SEE him move at that speed is another. You can think as fast as you want, but light still needs to hit objects, bounce off, hit your eyes, then your eyes still need to send that signal to your brain. Let’s not forget your eyes also have a a very limited frame rate so you would never see him moving.
@@hannibalhector3719 Dude, did you really talk about light needing to hit objects with comics and characters that can more many times the speed of light? That's hilarious.
@@sidroberts7960 I’m simply speaking as to her limitations. Not the speedsters.
FINALLY!!! Someone said it. It pisses me off how these speedsters never seem to be fast enough for the plot jeopardy.
yeah it's almost as though in genre fiction realistically consistent depiction of fantastical abilities has to take a back seat to plot or something
yeah
Just because you're a speedster doesn't mean you can't be LATE. They lower their guard way too much.
My friend, what you just said is EXACTLY why I stopped watching the flash about 9 years ago. I literally thought the same about that super power in general and I’m happy to know someone else thinks the same
One thing to consider with A train is that he was dealing with heart problems that would sometimes hinder his ability to run, so he did have a weakness that explained his fear of Homelander.
Yup, at least Days of Future Past had the decency to have Quicksilver f*ck off for the climax so he couldn't solve everything, but speedsters are...a problem
Awesome movie!
Handled him VERY good
0:51 not necessarily. You can be confident in one strike and lose focus on pulling it back.
Facts. Also, Omni-Man is physically stronger, so once he established a grip, it was a rap.
The time it takes him to pull his fist back is like 30 minutes to him. He would see the hand coming and just… you know….move.
He thinks at super speed, so hed lose focus at superspeed and regain it at super speed.
There is no debate its a plothole. In the comics it happens differently and red rush isnt as strong.
@eureka9113 regaining focus is not going to happen as soon as you lose it. He still can make errors.
@@jamesforeman8028??? no?? Why do you think so
I 100% agree. I get they can’t make Speedsters “immortal” or “undefeated”, but that’s where u put limits on how fast they can be. Like u said, Dash is a perfect example of that where he’s fast, but not too fast to where he’s untouchable.
0:32 The reason Red Rush got caught is because Omni-Man noticed Red Rush is only attacking his blind spot, and intentionally turned his back to bait him into an attack that he could punish.
But yeah maybe he was just an idiot.
Like fr tho I get Omni Man anticipated Red Rush’s attack and it caught him off guard but even then he sees things in SLOW MOTION. That should’ve been an easy evade into a 5 hit combo and go back to playing defense for immortal man and war woman. The show did better than the comics because I find it very funny that Nolan in the comics just no diffed them all which is bs writing imo.
If you want to be physically accurate, the second Barry starts moving a nuke goes off due to him colliding with air particles at relativistic speeds, killing him and everybody in a 10 mile range instantly. If you want to be slightly less physically accurate and give him durability, a nuke still goes off (or a continuous series of nukes), but he survives it. If you want to be less physically accurate still, Barry phases through air, has insane durability but his punches should be like hydrogen bombs in terms of strength. They seem to pay SOME attention to the kinetic energy a speedster's hits can carry, but they are severely, and I mean SEVERELY downplaying it. They have to make it make no sense, otherwise the movie ends in 5 minutes. Reaction time is one thing but the sheer power is also dismissed.
„Physically accurately“ look up what the speed force does first
So glad somebody has finally voiced the same thoughts I have!
your argument is "they could just move out the way" but when your punching someone your whole body is putting weight and momentum into the punch and so its kinda like getting locked in an animation which would leave them open.
that is a good point
But couldnt you also simply re-direct your movement? It makes sense that the weight and momentum would carry on but assuming that all parts of the speedster is fast (and not just their arms and legs), as a speedster moving/thinking at a super speed simply redirect their momentum enough to dogde? Omni-mans grab for example: red rush didnt have to pull his punch back (which would obviously be difficult because of momentum), he simply needed to move his arm slightly lower or higher which, as a person who sees everything in slow motion could very well do
@@sesamesprinklesThe problem with that is that Omni Man might’ve still grabbed him because he’s a highly skilled fighter with instincts and can take a hit just to get ahold of Red if necessary. Red’s best strategy would had to have been to get everyone out of that small space ASAP and buy them at least a few minutes to gather themselves before trying to take on someone that dangerous.
Absolutely no one who knows how to throw a competent punch does so like you described. That right there is a hay maker. You do have to put weight behind the punch but not your whole body weight and momentum behind it. You can still punch plenty hard without doing some kinda slow heavy duty falcon punch you have to heavily commit to. In fact most of the power from a decent punch can come from the snap.
If we go by your argument then speedsters would cause innumerable casualties or deaths every time they're speeding on the road 😅
I'm with you on all your points! It drives me nuts every time one of these guys goes down in a movie and it just never makes sense. All your examples are great!
Another thing that annoys me is the whole “he is fast but his punches lack impact” like beach a dust particle at 20k km/h can ANNIHILATE a thick block of pure steel,now imagine a punch much faster than that! I know they do it to balance them,but man…it’s still frustrating lol
2:18
It was the dark phoenix, an entity that can warp time and space and existence. A speedster cannot do anything against the likes of Scarlet Witch and Jean Grey because of their magical potential.
My dude, you could be a reality bender and there’s no way you would move an object to obstruct the trajectory of an opponent you CANNOT SEE OR PREDICT.
@@KeertikaAndFallenTree Okay and ?What are u gonna do against the entities who are next to TOAA and negate the concept of death itself ?( Scarlet Witch and Jean grey)
Also, what about the permanent magical field inside which you cannot enter ?(eg. Magneto's force field Quicksilver failed to get in) during X Men Apocalypse.
@@JitendraSingh-lr4nu I never denied this would be able to stop them. But in the specific example we saw, it wasn’t a force field that acted, but the character that made a decision which would be impossible unless they were able, on top of their magical prowess, to think, act and react at the same speed. This is ludicrous.
@@KeertikaAndFallenTree Jean Grey had an invisible field around her as we saw in Dark Phoenix when she went against Skrulls. Also, the concept of space and time doesn't apply against Wanda, Jean, Franklin Richards, etc.
@@JitendraSingh-lr4nu she never demonstrated in the movie that she can negate concepts or even just control space or time. She's just mediocre magician, and still would have gotten oneshotted by Quicksilver
even the fact they have super speed SHOULD = the super strength required, makes no sense they ever get hurt
And honesty, there's no reason the stronger character isn't faster as well just because of the stronger leg muscles.
I'm more bothered by the character being a moron than by the writers having to bend physics. One of the early Flash episodes had Flash specifically told "don't make eye contact" with Rainbow Raider. So what does Barry do, like 20 seconds later? Slam RR up against a wall and do the "in your face" thing, and predictably get mind-controlled, exactly as Cisco had warned him not to.
I suppose his idiocy DOES explain why he would hook up with his sister...
The idiocy is necessary for speedsters to have any challenge unless you slow them down.
Yeah, Barry did stuff like that regularly. A hostage situation? Better run there and stand in front of the guy...
This dude just discovered what inconsistency is
My headcanon is that all speedsters are bored out of their gourds and also all former theater kids. There's no other way to explain the clearly intentional slip ups that only serve to add drama to the situation.
2:10 "I understand it now"
0:31 he committed to the Punch. As soon as Omni-man felt the Air hit his Skin he went for the Grab.
He has over 1000+ Years of combat experience.
Air? There’s no air. He’s faster then air. As soon as Omni man moved 1 millimeter, he could have stopped his punch, went home, did laundry, wrote a novel, come back, draw pictures on his face with a marker, rigged the room with traps, ran to china to get the ancient dagger of whatever, came back, stabbed his eyes, 1,000 times each, learned a new language, phase his finger through is heart and brain , jumbled all of his organs, and have time to make pancakes for everyone. Lol. Well, With proper writing at least. But then I guess we just wouldn’t have a show at that point
Omniman way faster then expected rr is still faster.
no doesnt make sense, no matter how much experience you have, if you move at half speed you never gon get me
@@AlexxxPerales LMFAAAOOO DUDE I'M DEAD 😂😂💀
@@AlexxxPerales air is everywhere. Even if he's faster than air, he's moving the air in front of him. The air in front still has to move. That's why you see air compression in front of an object causing a sonic boom or orbital entry.
2:34 So like, Sonic the Hedgehog
Yes
0:40 it's because omni man is just so fast, like that man was flying through galaxies in just few weeks
I think the “conical” theory behind it is that all speedsters rely to heavy on their speed. In most instances the speedsters move like trains where they only do the same move of running behind and hitting, or constantly moving to the front of the target(cus they’re too fast) but what happens is they hyper focus when running on a given area or target and aren’t aware of their surroundings, which is why they almost always end up getting hit from the side. Being that fast has the downside of being easily predictable as well, which is why they always get caught, if they only focus on attack (like red rush) they aren’t prepared for someone to grab them, like a self inflicted sucker punch, if that makes sense. Just the logic I use for my writing
That’s also why Mikari? The speedster from the eternal is the only good one. She has really dynamic movements, but she’s also not limited by human limitations
Omniman and Homelander also have super speed and are arguably as faster or faster than Red Rush and A-Train
Same thing happened to Makkari from eternals. If speedsters can move before one can think and react how can one stop them.
I think you are giving speedsters the max op, tho they are 'nerfed' for balance reasons. I feel like they are not always in 'super speed mode' otherwise they wouldn't be able to talk or interact with anyone. Lastly I kinda feel like it could be somewhat like they can only do so much at a time, like they have to turn super speed on and off because yes like many other superpowers if you go too far with it they could be overpowered. Idk thats my random thoughts on it.
I agree with most of your points, but it’s been proven and stated many times that homelander is faster than A-train in every single way. He just doesn’t show it. There’s a reason A-Train didn’t just flee the 7 after his first major F ups, and it’s because he knew homelander would not only find him, but he couldn’t outrun him. I also believe Omni man is faster than red rush, Omni man traveled hundreds of thousands maybe even millions of light years across the universe in the span of like 2 weeks. That is unfathomable speed.
I agree with this it's annoying. I've been saying this for years
Exactly my thoughts, im not really sure about red rush and a-train, but the point still stands...
Unpopular opinion: speedsters are OVERRATED by fans. The whole “they are untouchable” thing only works when speedsters are hundreds or thousands times faster than their opponents which sounds pretty ridiculous and isn’t always the case. You’re ALWAYS untouchable if any of your stats is so much more superior no matter if it’s speed or strength/IQ/skills.
On top of that speedsters aren’t OP if speed is the ONLY thing that’s boosted. For example speedsters wouldn’t do anything to superdurable dude: any attempt of impact will harm the speedster itself. Speedster can actually be harmed by their own speed. DC literally had to create Speedforce for making speedsters OP and Speedforce isn’t just superspeed but an entire semimagic power system with protection/time travel/electric powers. Speedsters in DC aren’t speedsters they’re f-ing magicians.
I think Marvel was smart having very few speedsters in their universe, besides Quicksilver, and the ones that do exist are mostly in the “cosmic” side of things. Whereas, in DC the only explanation for how everyone is fast enough to react to The Flash, while being slow enough to get tagged by Batman, is plot armor. It has to be that way, or there wouldn’t be a story. Speedsters are more trouble than they’re worth.
The problem is that a speedster is only invincible if their opponent isn't fast enough.
He was clearly significantly faster than omni man.
@@absolutleynotanalien8096 he definitely was but Omni man has reaction time and prediction at his side.
@@superkingarmaan9875 it's like you people don't understand what super speed is🤦♂
@@ditrix3731 who would win a baseball player or a baseball? The fastest recorded pitch in baseball was clocking in at 105.8 mph (169.1 km/h). which is comparable to a car traveling at around 241 km/h, which is faster than most highway speed limits!
A baseball is definitely faster than a baseball player, but that doesn't mean a baseball player can't hit it.
@@superkingarmaan9875 and a baseball travels in a predictable path. If it’s a speedster, they can spontaneously change trajectories at any time and easily react to anyone slower than them.
You are completely right. Also:
1)When I watched I did not notice that Red Rush could block Omni Man's punched. And it makes it have even less sense, Omni man shouldn't even be able to crush his head like that,(and red rush should be able to damage Omniman(especially the eyes), him blocking his punch means he's in the same league as Immortal in terms of durability and strength). Red Rush should have defeated Omniman and be the main character(would have made show watchable, Invincible is a wimpy crybaby)
2)Quicksilver should have been able to just pull his leg out of earth like it's mud, simply because how strong and durable he must be to move at such speeds. Also Apocalypse shouldn't even be able to overpower him or break his leg(he would just have pushed himself up)
3)Also Quicksilver "falling" while running super fast(or standing) is absolutely ridiculous
4)maybe the only reasonable thing is Homelander vs A-train, as far as I understand Homelander has faster reaction, is stronger, more durable, can fly(and faster than A-train runs). His only disadvantage is lower muscle contraction speed, but again, not by much
You are absolutely right. In old DC Comics Superman used to be as fast as Flash, that would be an explanation why he is mightier than him, or in the DC RPG the really powerful heroes have extremely high reaction values, so it is imaginable that they could catch Flash - but otherwise ... no chance.
A good, rather realistic depiction of a fight between a speedster and a Superman-like fighter can be found in the comic series ‘Uber’, in which a speedster ‘cuts’ the stronger fighter with a diamond knife so many times in a short space of time that the latter's skin can no longer withstand the enormous blood pressure from the inside.
Yes in most cases speedsters are untouchable its just that a suprise attack is still possible, if they simply just don't notice something then they can't stop it.
A-Train situation irritates me the most. Homelander got destroyed by Maeve who is far slower, but A-Train wouldn’t be able to hurt Homelander himself? But the metal pipe is all it took lol
you ppl underestimate homelanders power quite a bit. - super hearing, eyesight, flyes looks trough objects, almost unkillable, ultra strong and most importantly - laser eyes at the speed of light.
combine this and the moment homelander spots A-train he is dead.
however he has to lose so the rest of the plot could happen
It has already been proven and stated many times that homelander is faster than A-train, there’s a reason A-train didn’t run away after his major screw ups. Homelander is way faster than A-Train, and both of them know it, homelander just doesn’t use his super speed because he simply doesn’t need to.
Well vs Meave i would guess he was Holding him self. And i agree that Metal thing was really weird(But we can just blame director for that stupid season finale)
Against A-Train there is no doubt.
HomeLander is FASTER than A-Train and stronger than him. It was comproved on couple episodes.
If was a confront A-Train wouldn't win, but if was to run away and have a new life or be safe he could do it for sure
@@ixirionthe lasers aren’t light speed
In a 1v1 combat style, your movement speed is almost irrelevant, that’s like saying a bear wouldn’t be able to hurt a tiger
3:10 Captian Cold is the villain that is the strongest debuffer in the DC Lore purely by how he manipulates reality.
holy shit the difference between the CGI for the Flash movie vs all the other CGI for the other speedsters makes me realize how bad it was lmao
My interpretation is that Red Rush wasn't mentally prepared for his hand to just bounce off. He was either mentally stunned for a fraction of a second longer than usual, or he physically damaged his arm in a way that slowed his response.
Add onto that that Omni-man only reacts that quickly in the one case where Red Rush hits him, and I think it's fair to believe that Omnians react more quickly to painful stimulus than they can consciously process.
Yeah the problem with speedsters is that writers either don't understand how speed works from a scientific basis, or they make the power more of a On-Off thing and the hero an idiot. But when they show people like Quicksilver and how they ALWAYS see the world around them it is inexcusable to just have a "but he fumbled" moment. The only times when speedsters can lose should be because they just wanted to die
Finally.... finally someone who pointed these Nerfs out!
Omni-Man is fast too, not as fast as Red Rush of course, but...Omni-Man got lucky. Once he got hold of Red Rush Omni-Man's strength took over.
Now, I do believe that you are correct. Speedsters should also be super-strong and very durable in order for their bodies to survive the extreme stress of moving that fast. Bullets shouldn't hurt them either, because running into a pebble in mid air kicked up by a truck would act like a bullet.
Got lucky is crazy
@deonnelson9780 This is no different than when trained martial artists catch arrows in mid air. It's part speed, skill and luck.
Even if Omniman got lucky, Red Rush could’ve easily escaped when Omniman changed his stance to grab his head. 🤨
@@habibosaye At that time we don't know Red Rush's full powers or weaknesses. Maybe at that point Rush was too tired. In the actual episode Rush seemed tired after he saved all those people and they threw up.
@@starbrand3726 Still, before Omniman put pressure on his head, he could’ve just moved his head. He still had to have some adrenaline rushing. It’s not like he was in a headlock.
I personally have only ever liked the Flash in the Znyder cut, because you can get the sense that the only thing holding him back is himself, he stumbles out of clumsiness and misses opportunities due to being afraid, which is a defect and a weakness that seems reasonable considering the power this character has. But once he realizes that he needs to lock in and simply unleashes everything, he even bent time itself under his will, It's a great showing of how powerful Flash should be once he's in his game.
The issue with A Train in the boys is that homelander has better speed feats than A Train. A trains top speed is said to be Mach3/1000mph. Homelander mean while was able to grab teddy and butcher and get them out of a house after C4 had already started exploding as evidenced by the flash if light after buther releases the detonator. Which puts homelander at faster than 8092m/s which equates to 18,101mph.
If I were to ever write my own comic script, there would either have to be ZERO speedsters, or they would have to be weak af to make them viable. Literally super speed beats so many other things just because "already done, gone to lunch" should be a thing for every speedster. AoU was the worst I've ever seen a speedster at. Then the current era of X-Men cinematics has him being ridiculously OP as he should be.
The whole reason speedsters get treated the way they do is because otherwise there'd be no plot left to push forward, because everything would get done in ten LITERAL seconds, and then it would just be the fluff of hanging out off duty after the big crisis is over.
0:31 Red Rush Fucked up. He should have only stayed on the Defensive Making sure Omniman could not hit anyone.
Note: that everyone started to Die after Red Rush got taken out.
And you'll have to Remember Omni Man himself is Very Fast.
Think like Superman VS Flash. Super Man can Still see him Moving at super speed and can somewhat keep up with Flash.
But Flash is Still Much faster.
Plus like Omni Man has much more practice in combat like that, and Red Rush was becoming very predictable with his movement
Im assuming he didnt know how strong omniman truly is since he was hiding it so he thought he had a chance
Homelander is faster than A-Train
clearly not in react or combat speed though, maeve was giving him a run for his money
I think the issue is this:
Unless the speedster has additional abilities (like phasing, striking with enough force to bypass durability, or manipulating energy), a juggernaut’s (like omniman) durability and equal reaction time would give them a significant edge.
Knowing an outcome or perceiving time faster than someone else doesn’t mean you have the reaction time or ability to react in time.
For example: seeing into the future and knowing the enemy’s next move, doesn’t mean you have the ability to stop or counter it.
Omni man also has super speed thoough. Remember he moved so fast that he destroyed an entire race and their planet in under a minute by moving so fast that he destroyed the surrounding areas by flying past. That being said most speedsters should also have a set of secondary powers or mutations in order to have super speed. Denser skin thats resistant to heat other wise their bodies would just break down from running into air molecules. Super strength to be able to generate that speed. And actually a few others (depending on the speedster most should have some control over intertia as well).
Red Rush and Green Ghost really did have no excuse to die in that fight, one is Fast the other can't be touched, Maneuvering and battlefield control are their main fighting styles, how did they screw up so badly?
Because the writers said so.
Considering that those attributes are possible in rush and ghost, viltrumites have probably fought similar enemies in the past. Though red rush still should have just taken everyone far away and strategized.
bro, if Jean grey would receive that hit from a speedster character, Bro many simps would get hate on Quicksilver 💀
I liked the DCAU Flash where if he used too much of the speedforce he literally gets sucked into it and eventually gets atomized if nobody is there to immediately pull him out.
he wouldn’t get atomized he’d just be stuck in the speed force. but yea the DCAU did a pretty damn good job with Flash, same with Young Justice as well for Wally. He’s not as fast as Barry, only going at Mach 5 (I think) and couldn’t instantly decelerate once he got going, effectively needing to gradually slow down or crash into something.
They had Flash jobbing a lot in Justice League back in the day. I had to explain to people that he wasn't weak when he did stuff like trip over the Joker's marbles.
Later on they did him right when he beat Brainiac-Luthor and beat up the Watchtower.
The creators said they had nerfed him early on to keep him from taking over the show.
@InfiniteTranscendence Another episode that I think Flash works well in that shows his clear strengths and weaknesses is the one where the League gets possessed by a hive mind of Serpent people after Hawk Girl smashed the statue they were in habiting.
@@TheMasterBlaze That was indeed a fun episode.
They sure don't make them like they used to.
*sigh*
Not really, in case of certain characters. They are able to perceive and move close to a speedster (superman level characters) in which can throw off/surprise a speedster. Like when the flash fought Superman after they resurrected Superman in the movies
Superspeed of the sort you describe is way too OP to be dramatically interesting. The problem is consistency.
Speedsters ain't the only fast people ya know that's how omni man got his arm . Speedsters are just the fastest
You just contradicted yourself lmao brainlet
We all know that ... Basic knowledge. What the poster is saying isnt basic
2:43 Nwh. He's much faster than 500miles per hour. He's fast enough that ca eras can't catch him.
Quicksilver vs Jean makes sense to me because at the end of the day, Quicksilver brain still needs to send the electrical impulses throughout his body and as an omega level mutant there is no doubt in my mind that Jean would be able to sense that and act accordingly. I think of it less as Jean having super speed and more of an "oh wow any neurological phenomena really is at her disposal, that's crazy."
Out of these I think Omni-Man vs Red Rush does have some merit to it. Red Rush not running off to tell Cecil was a matter of him making the call between trying to keep everyone alive vs get to Cecil. They had no comms, and we don't know Red Rush's max speed. So he must have realized he could protect his team or get Cecil, not both and he chose his team. We obviously don't get all the details of what Red Rush is doing since he's just a blur but its not likely he was blocking Omni-Man's attacks, he was probably striking Omni-Man from the side to reduce the force of his punches and Omni-Man probably pulled his punch to a stop when he lost most of the force of his punch. Red Rush would have gotten splattered if he tried to block directly or tried to strike Omni-Man's strike from the front. As for grabbing Red Rush, Omni-Man simply bated him into the punch. As soon as Red Rush committed to the punch Omni-Man was already trying to grab him. Red Rush clearly wasn't focusing on a potential counter so it slipped his attention.
I came up with the term "power amnesia" to describe the phenomenon of comic book characters doing what you're describing here, which is basically just forgetting their powers for plot reasons, and it was actually largely because of speedster characters getting caught by enemies or attacks that they shouldn't have been. I think it happens largely because of the power creep that has occurred in comic book characters over the years, where the writers keep having to increase their feats to keep the audience interested, which ultimately hurts the stories they're trying to tell because they wind up having to do things like this to add a sense of danger to situations.