The End Of Repairs
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- It is indeed the end of an era - and I wish it didn't have to be this way!
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Well, why not buy up the used pedals yourself, repair them, then sell them as "FranTone Refurbished"? The theory being that keeping as many pedals as possible working and in use will drive resale values down (somewhat), combined with putting your own name on the refurbished units will ensure you become the preferred source. Take control of the market for your pedals!
They will be immediately put back on the list for even higher prices, because now it is branded by Miss Fran herself. The only way to get prices down is to create new ones.
Record the process and and post it on the channel. I know I would for sure watch that content.
AMEN
@@cannotbeleftblank6027 She could auction them and afford the recent rent hikes.
@@cannotbeleftblank6027 Maybe, maybe not, anyone can ask what they want but there is a limit what people will pay.
I soured on the electronic repair biz 20 years ago. I still do some ,friends and myself, but when certain parts became equal to or more than the cost of a new one I had to give up my shop. Our throwaway economy and planned obsolescence still pisses me off to no end. Bless you . I love your strength and resolve to stand you ground on that small 1 acre of honesty . ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
1969 Stratocasters currently cost *wayyy* more than their original price. Nobody would expect them to cost the same now, nor would they expect quality repairs to be cheap.
When I purchased my Squier in the 1980s, it was considered a subpar Fender. It is now a collectible item. The same is true with old Boss pedals; they were formerly considered cheap junk, but beat-up 80s Japanese ones are now highly valued!
Your pedals are appreciating in value because of your high quality work, and were made in limited numbers. Just charge them a premium rate of repair - as others have said, if it goes to helping FranLab keep going why not?
Exactly. I see no reason Fran shouldn't continue to profit from the success of her designs and manufacture! Profit and accept the praise implicit in the high used market.
Are these things SELLING at these prices?
A quick check of Reverb shows a Peach fuzz for $580, a price drop of $319 from it's initial asking price of $899. It was listed 8 month ago and still it sits with no buyers.
There is no shortage of people who think their stuff is worth it's weight in gold while it is only worth its weight in zinc
There always seems to be stupidly high priced items on Ebay.
Not sure what the reason is. A couple of theories 1) occasionally they get a buy from someone who hasn't done the research and has more money than sense. 2) Attempting to distort the market price higher - buyers more willing to pay slightly high prices if they see lots of very high listings.
Unfortunately this will end up driving prices up further too :/
But maybe not if she floods the land with new, authentic pedals priced correctly. Not sure if she'd be too keen on that though. I'm sure it's a lot of work that can't really be sourced out in this case.
@@justinbrain Fran has made a plurality of videos as to why she will not make new pedals. She goes on a 10 minute tirade about how no-one can paint the enclosures perfectly, unless she oversees every step herself, and then complains about how she can't get the right components that are made in the USA.
I get why she won't compromise on quality, as it's her name on the box, but, she's also not willing to make a boutique priced item, either, as it's too much hassle.
@@Loscha Makes sense. Figured as much, Cheers
Somehow I hope she will accept bribes.
Hi Fran. I'm not sure about your logic here. Why should you really care what the secondary market is doing? In many ways, it is honouring the quality, design, and craftsmanship of your pedals. Surely repairing them for a fair price, be that $80.00 or $250.00 or whatever is a way of ensuring your history and legacy. I would be honoured that people still think so highly of them. And never mind what Rolex may or may not be doing. They are still producing watches. You are not still producing pedals. Just my thoughts on the matter.
I Dont get the point too. I think exactly the same.
It's an excuse. Consciously or not, who knows?
I think the main reason the likes of Rolex completely replace worn parts is to protect their reputation as the "best" in the world. It would reflect badly on them if they returned a watch that didn't run (or look) as well as it did new so it is mainly to retain their so important image
My dad was a watchmaker. Well repairer. Same as a car mechanic, just replace worn+broken parts with new. I don't quite understand the high value of original parts if the damn thing don't work ;)
A used Frantone pedal shouldn't cost more than a new one... well, restart production in small volumes and sell 'em for $1000. ;-)
Er... You apparently didn't hear Fran. She wants to keep her pedals affordable to ordinary folks.
@@EricAdamsonMI I've heard Fran talk about her pedal business problems before in several videos.
IMHO, the Frantone brand has attracted a certain type of fan willing to pay a premium. The only way to bring her pedals back to affordability is to get more product on the market.. only one person can do that... and it only makes sense that she profit from it... selling them at Walmart prices would just alienate fans of the product.
Of course, once the market gets bit more saturated, maybe she could take the proceeds of the premium new products to come out with an affordable line of pedals.
You know what they say, 'You can't have your cake and eat it, too."
@@buckykattnj Pretty sure she gives zero phuqs about flattering the ego of anyone who overpaid for her gear on the resale market.
I've suggested that she create a page listing serial numbers of repaired products, to hopefully deflate the resale value of those items, but who knows how well that might work.
The cake is all hers -- she'll do with it, whatever suits her.
I didn't expect that so many people who have never bought a pedal of mine would be so upset at me for not doing repair work anymore. I do have another job now... Of course, if all these upset people would have bought my stuff when I was making it I wouldn't have got out of the pedal business. But hey... people like to be angry at someone, so today it's me. I get it.
Not upset, we understand why you have made this decision 100%... just feel sad for the people that genuinely love your product and don't personally have the the expertise to troubleshoot / repair it themselves or know anyone who does. I'm sure though that if they are truly passionate they will find a solution. So sorry that you have been brought to the point of having to make this decision... all that said, I am one of the people you mention that never bought a pedal from you because I don't have a musical bone in my body, golly I wish I did though. I love and enjoy your story and passion for the art however and support you in the same way I do for all that have given themselves to the pursuit of creativity and beauty in musical production.
If you make a video about it and leave the comments on, you'll get people giving an opinion. That's how UA-cam works. They may not always agree with what you said, that's how life works. I've not seen too much hate personally but you can ignore haters. Just don't expect 100% agreement.
Fran, you have to think like a business person. Offer to buy back any broken pedal. Fix them and resell them for the going rate. The old owner can keep a fancy paperweight, or get a few dollars back to buy a replacement.
I second that. The value is going up because she's not making them anymore, so it's an inevitable situation. Not repairing pedals anymore just forces existing owners whose pedals have broken to buy used ones at inflated prices, making the situation worse.
I love being told that I don't know what I'm doing.
No offense, Fran. I just don't understand why you don't capitalize on the high value of your legacy. @@FranLab
She doesn't want money. She wants people to stop selling her pedals for $600. Buying them back only to resell them for the same doesn't solve anything.
You are the best at snatching defeat from the..
Lots of vintage and rare music gears is advertised on Reverb etc for ridiculous prices but do they sell?
How about a big steel punch to stamp "REFURB" or other mark into the case? Anyway, I think you're doing the right thing even though it's a fantasy to expect resale markets to behave I'm afraid. People no longer being willing to pay that much is pretty much the only thing to bring that price down ultimately.
This is actually a really great idea. Realistically after watching the video I don't think this will become a reality
@@YerUnclePhil Ah yeah same here. I was just trying to think of *any* thing that might stand a chance to not be forged or removed and would not mean more money, or not much more.
Refurb stamped by Fran Herself will surely add some more value.
When it's about "collectors" it's not because you make 10 millions of a thing that this will change the value of the first ones some will see in !
Think at the price of the "first edition" of Tom Sawyer or a French one of From the Earth to the Moon will be higher than the price of the new book you can buy or even download legally for free.
@@lapub.It'd be a new tangent on the market that exists. New coke or original?
OK, how about an electronic signature that distinguishes the refurbs? There's nothing she can really really do I realize that. But if she wants to keep the repairs AND distinguish from "originals", then you need indelible mark somehow. And even then, as you say, it could only increase the value on those..
Hey, how much is my 1970's mxr distortion plus worth? No repairs ever. I have no idea! Not sure I want to know its worth fi dolla.
Aww Fran, it's sad that it's come to this but it's absolutely not fair that people have been taking advantage of your repairs. I really admire your integrity.
I understand where you are. That said, not repairing them, will cause the supply to drop, which will cause the working ones to go up. Open sourcing it could drop the price, or it could have the inverse affect of driving the originals up even higher. It's a crummy situation. 😢
At least if she open sourced them, at least it would reduce the barrier for people to access and enjoy her engineering and design, albeit not made by her anymore. Instead, the price of these pedals will go up and fewer people will get to use and appreciate them.
@@andrewn7365 They're traditional guitar pedals AFAIK. In general, they don't contain anything an analog repair person wouldn't be able to signal trace and fix. The beauty of being in electronics repair is that after a decade or so, you can 'see' how a circuit works even without the schematics. It's one of the most satisfying things.
The number of things that can go wrong is probabli quite limited. I expect mostly mechanical damage and perhaps some noisy or otherwise broken germanium transistors (for which you have to source original replacements, or you'll radically change the sound).
I am confused; it’s a guitar pedal with essentially basic electronics, so what is getting broken that anyone with basic electronics knowledge can’t fix? Are we talking about new old stock germanium here?
Edit; I watched one of her repair videos and it turns out people get into the electronics and butcher them. Repairing them is the work of a master who understands the purpose of each part of the original circuit. Oh, and yes some rare parts are needed.
I believe she replaced parts with contepraneous items, i.e. if the original pedal used some germanium transistor made in 1976, and she still has them in stock she'll replace it like-for-like.
Congrats! You just caused the prices of all existing FranTone pedals to Quadruple in value!
Welcome to market forces! How do you think Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin etc feel when they see their classic legacy cars sell for millions?! I'll tell you, they set up a classic servicing and repair division and charge fortunes to service, restore and maintain their old products.
She literally said she's not in it for the money.
@@emiliaolfelt6370
Errrr, I do realise that! By adopting that attitude though, will just compel others to reverse engineer them and offer repair and servicing. They're not exactly complicated devices, so this would be relatively easy. After all, that's exactly what happens with Apple and similar products.
Basically USA made quality parts are becoming scarce and repairing them with substandard parts just lowers the quality of her product. There are even some IC's that are NLA or so far out of spec that they cannot be used since it would alter the effect pedal causing more individuals to accuse her of ripping them off since the repair with a low quality replacement part will not preform the same as the original factory part from several decades ago. I run into this issue constantly trying to keep vintage 2way radios going. A non working collectible has zero value while one that still turns on and works will earn a decent price to the individual looking for that model to add to their collection.
@@emiliaolfelt6370She is angry that she is NOT SEEING THE MONEY.
@@christophero1969why are you yelling 😂
I’ll happily continue to repair Frantone pedals
Do what another commenter said and stamp the inside as refurbished
@@YerUnclePhil You cant do that to other peoples property.
@@Stefan-Repair shops put repair stickers, stamps, and labels on other people's property all the time. You definitely _can_ do that, just that some people - usually hustlers, like the resellers in the video - will be mad about it.
@@ratemisia I have worked with reparing electronics since the 80´s, i have put on warranty stickers when i have repaired on some products, other products never used them so no new ones put on either, calibration sticker when i have calibrated. Stickers like these that are expected to be there is one thing, if you do any permanent mark you have in some way damaged the product that is owned by someone else. The only point of puttting some kind of stamp in this case is that it is permanent otherwise it would be pointless and not prevent people reselling them as if they were never repaired.
Perhaps charge $1000 for repair, then you’d get much less frequent requests for repairs and if anyone wanted to actually pay that amount for a repair, you’d benefit.
That’s a funny idea but maybe a good one! Quote flat rate $1000 for any repair of your pedals
Because she doesn't want frantone to be some unattainable, luxury thing.
@@emiliaolfelt6370I think it’s ok to let that happen. It’s what happens when you do such good work and make such a fantastic product.
I didn't catch the reasoning behind the unwillingness to open up the designs and make schematics available. I'd have thought if there's no plan to resume production, this option would be the perfect response to the silly price situation.
Reputation. Someone cobbles up a "Frantone" and does ratty work, it's a black mark on Fran even though the design is sound.
I've been fixing all kinds of electronics for years, many times just to see it not go into the land fill. I look at my job as a repair technician as the person that helps either reduce e-waste or at lest extends the time before a device like these peddles end up a s e-waste.
This seems very contrary to the right-to-repair movement.
Very contrary indeed
You still have the ability to fix your pedal yourself. There is nothing preventing you from fixing it other than lack of electronics knowledge which would be true for any repair.
@@TokyoScarab I agree. Her pedals are not that complex electronically. A skilled electronics tech could repair then easily. Her comparison to Rolex is actually a completely different situation.
Anyone has the right to repair a Frantone pedal. They do not have the right to expect a cheap repair from the original maker.
They're not complex electronically. No pedal is. The magic is which non-linear devices are used, and how they're operated. I assume the part numbers are obscured to protect these trade secrets.
Dear Fran: More solid content. Thank you. You are the new Howard Dumble! Frantone product is excellent. That's just how the cookie crumbles. Peace.
Hey Fran ,Thanks for your words and appreciate your sentiments.I do my own repairs on all types of vintage audio devices and other musical devices.Have you ever thought about licensing out repair and manufacturing of your products so you can at least benefit from the financial shifts and opportunities? All the best
People will fix them forever, they'll figure it out.
A friend of mine years ago was (and is) a guitarist and a tech, a little like Fran. He had a fuzz box called a "Big Muff", the old ones are worth about what Fran's are and he really liked the sound, except it generated a lot of distracting noise as well as distortion. It was all discreet components from the late 1960's so he reverse engineered it and replaced every component with a low noise equivalent and it did not ruin the distortion but eliminated the noise. I'm sure he devalued it for a collector (although he kept the original parts) but guitarists offered him even *more* money for it once they heard it.
If there's limited supply and people want them, number go up. It doesn't matter what type of product it is.
I can understand where you are at and I would do the same,Fran. As it is I repair my own electronics and have since the 1970s.
Hi Fran! I agree with the others who say raise your prices to cover your labor and materials, and to keep your high quality pedals and boards working!
If she feels like it, the best case for her would be to buy up what she can for low prices and turn them around for $1200-1500. Alternatively, she can charge $600-700 for repair/restoration.
People charge so much because you can't buy a new one and there so great that there rarity makes them worth more it's like the klon craze except no one is making clones of your pedals aside from making one yourself from a schematic and it probably won't be as high quality as something you would build
Kinda like the GCA of 1986. It literally dried up the market for transferable machine guns. One of the most worthless pipe guns, the British Sten would sell for a few hundred dollars in decades past plus your $200 application fee to the Feds. Today that piece of junk as an original WWII manufacture can fetch as much as $8K while a pre ‘86 private manufacture goes for $5K. Market demand for something that has become rare will raise its price. I like the idea one commenter made, repair at a higher price and stamp the bottom with the words "ReFurb-not with original parts"and enclose letter why with not original parts. Basically NO LONGER AVAILABLE. Stuff that note inside the pedal so whoever buys it for 10x original price will probably open the pedal to see what was changed, they will find the note inside. More than likely they will demand their money back on something that was altered but still kinda works.
Hi Fran! I came across your channel a couple of years ago and have enjoyed your bench work a lot. I find it interesting and informative. However I've also witnessed your mood, health, and funding issues over the years and it is sad to see you what appears to me for you to be so unhappy. From your life stories over the years It amazes me on what a talented and diverse individual you truly are. But I have been working 9 to 5 for the last 49 years and I could only imagine what it would be like to have made something so popular and to be able to support yourself doing what you love. I'm sorry but I just can't stand to watch you be so unhappy about life in general. Life is too short and the time I spend on you tube needs to be positive and enjoyable. I wish you all the best!
Ive never made a product, nor have had to deal with supporting one, but in my opinion if you aren't offering repair services you should make sure that current owners can make repairs.
Whether that's just providing a schematic/relevant documentation instead of a repair, or fully open sourcing your work, I just think it's worth preserving.
These may be simple/straightforward enough devices that anyone could reason their way through, but I'd rather have that manual which tells me how to change the oil on my car, even though im pretty sure just about anybody on the planet could figure that out.
(Further, ideologically, I believe an owner of a product ought to have the right to have their property repaired. Even if you arent willing to provide that service, you still have that obligation to your end user. It's entirely your choice to provide services and products to the world, and nobody should force you to work against your will, but you should provide owners with enough information figure out repairs for themselves)
Why not charge a bit more for repairs, reducing your need on Patreon, and ensure you get your cut. That way people still have a safe route for repair (at a cost that reflects the market value) and you benefit too. Throwing up your hands and saying "there's nothing I can do" isn't helping either you or genuine owners. I just don't get it and to be completely honest it makes me reconsider my Patron support.
100%…
Lol Fran, I think you haven't thought this through properly, you should charge say 20% of the second hand value for repairs. This is the craziest thing you have ever said IMHO.
Fran knows best, you should know that.
Probably the same reason I don't charge labor and only parts. I just don't look at the used market. I probably shouldn't.
Well, it's not your company, and it's unclear whether you're even a "genuine owner" yourself. The world doesn't revolve around you just because you think you know better than the woman who built the entire company.
I like your FranLab song. Like you said, Companies with 1000s of employees would sooner lobby congress than enable & tolerate these branded repair & resale economics.
I keep buying up old electro lab boxes in antique shops and stacked up a ton of random germanium because making a pedal for 20 bucks that would cost 500 bucks is the best gift I can give to my musician friends. It's absolutely insane I could piss away 500 on a pedal from 60 years ago that cost me 10 euros to prototype and 2 to fix when the life was stomped out of it
I can understand the annoyance, but if they are now going to be End Of Life'd, it would be a nice courtesy to open source the designs to help prevent them becoming e-waste, or if you support right to repair, you could see in that light.
I saw you mention pocket watches, been interested in them myself recently, would be interesting to see a video on your favourites.
She has zero obligation to do such a thing. Watch the video again. She's been taken advantage of by a group of people with the get big money for tiny investments crowd. I see this even when selling something like expensive photo gear. I will get totally lo-balled by nut jobs that I full well know will merely try to turn around their purchase for profit the second they can get their hands on it from people dumb enough to sell to them. No reason at all to indulge these punks.
I think there is a bit of an ego thing going on here!
The original Klon Centaur creator secretly made more after ending production and sold them used at market value.
No. That's a great narrative for conspiracy theorists, but Bill always insisted on having a long conversation with prospective buyers, to make sure the pedal would suit their rig. Hard to do that AND clandestinely make and sell pedals at inflated prices. He *occasionally* makes and sells a pedal to raise money for folks he knows in difficult circumstances, as he has done recently, but it is done publicly and not secretly. The $3k and $5k Klons are entirely the work of after-market speculators. Bill is as honest as the day is long. Please don't besmirch his name like that.
seriously , there are no magic parts in them and if the chip are available, anyone can repair them that has a background in electronics , so someone going to make a lot of money repairing Francone pedals , bet on it . fran unwillingness to repair , will just create a new market ,
Let's have more pedals please!!
I already did two videos on that.
Don’t understand why you can’t charge more for repairs. Am I missing something?
A couple of my Careers went poof, because of similar situations
So shortsighted of you
Johnny the bike guy thinks Fran is shortsighted. Oh my!
If you're so disgusted at the overpriced secondhand market for your pedals, the best way to combat it would be to make more new pedals. The second best way would be to make the designs and instructions open sourse so someone else can make them. I disagree with your decision because this will backfire and raise the already high price even more, you know supply and demand. If you're unwilling to make more, let someone else make them so at least your engineering and design can be enjoyed by more people.
I already did the videos about all that.
@@FranLab And I'd like to see them, but I don't have the time to sift through your vast library of videos to find the prerequisite information to fully understand the decision being laid out in this one. I've tried to find them too. I see you've left multiple replies saying you went over this information in other videos to comments on this video, so it doesn't seem like it's just my problem.
I somewhat agree with the fact she should keep making pedals, but she already said why she won't make pedals now. Even if we don't agree with this decision or the rationale, that's Fran's choice. Not ours.
That said, I think that whatever she would do wouldn't change the value of her pedals already on the market. If she made new pedals, even if with absolutely the same or even better level of quality, the old ones would still get this inflated value, like any old, valued product does. Just because there are tons of brand new Gibson guitars on the market, many models being top notch, the 50's models still go for absolutely nuts amounts of money.
But I think the real reason Fran should stop repairing Frantone pedals is if it took too much of her time while not making her enough money to justify it. Or if she just lost interest in doing that. That would be fair. If the only reason is people reselling old pedals for insane amounts of money, I don't think it's a really good reason, although it's understandably frustrating. Maybe Fran could just accept repairs only if the customer has some reasonable proof of purchase - eBay not counting. But that's very possible that most genuine, first-hand buyers have long lost any proof of purchase, so that wouldn't be fair to them. There's probably little that can be done if Fran doesn't want to participate in this overinflation.
Well said!
I have a different take on this; To me, the fact that the pedals are appreciating in value means just that: They are valuable. New ones are not being produced, so the available stock is only ever getting smaller, so the price goes up. I would be proud to have made something that appreciates in value like this. I know you want your stuff to be affordable, but there isn't enough stock of the pedals to allow everyone to have one, so this is the result.
I think you should consider what you price a new run of pedals at, and do a one off run of new ones potentially, if you can make and sell them at a price that's lower than the used ones are selling for, then you would lower the price overall.
As an owner of two Frantone pedals that mean a lot to me, I just want to say that I support your decision. It's a reasonable position and a good point well made. [ Peach Fuzz and The Sweet, for those who are curious. ]
I really want to give you a hug. I understand and support your position.
Those pedals are listed for ridiculously high resale prices, but what are they >actually< selling for? That's the real question along with why someone would pay 4-5 times the new price. Sure, rarity probably is a factor but there's something else driving that market. To figure out what it is might be an exercise in futility.
I hear your points, and I greatly respect your integrity. Maybe you're happier not having to do repais anyway; but if not: Why not borrow a move from Tesla, and make people sign something attesting that they won't sell the pedal for, whatever, 1 uear or 5 years or something. Or if they don't want to sign that, you could offer a (more expensive) "make my pedal ready to sell" refurbishment service. Then, you could get a well-deserved cut of the "action", while also keeping things affordable for bona fide working musicians who just want to keep using your gear.
The issue is there's no way of policing that. It's not like guitar pedals have registered owners or require insurance.
The only way would be to encourage resale sites like eBay & Reverb to do more against fixed price listings and towards auctions with low starting bids, but its not in their interest to lower prices unless they operate on a fix fee.
There is plenty of old gear listed for years by the same people because no one is really paying those prices. I think these sites could do more to get actual sales from that. I mean I'd happily take any silly offers for my equipment, but its pointless listing at those prices.
Yes, duly noted. My suggestion would be to establish something like a "serviced by Fran" certificate, or some such. Something that would come to have value in itself. Of course some people would lie, just like in the Art Market, but discerning the true "provenance" would become worthwhile and important (to some people at least), and would play into the world of overinflated values, like with Klon pedals, Dumble amps, etc..
I honestly get where you are coming from, and your decision is 1,000% valid. The pedal(s) become a commodity for collectors. In one way you are honored with your designs being held in such high esteem, but on another level, profiteers make money off of your sweat and ingenuity. There really is no solution. A product gets popular, and it goes viral, yet you see little profit.
Do you think you could release the design specs as open source so people can build and fix their own pedals? EDIT: Just watched the whole video. You have to decide what's worth more to YOU. Thank you for everything you've done.
The fact that the prices have increased so much indicates that people want to use your product (I doubt there's much of a market for just putting these on display) Why not make them again? This is the best way to puncture the price balloon and get your products into the hands of people that obviously love them.
She's discussed this at length in other videos.
I bought my Rolex in 1976, the cheapest model they had and the thing is screwed visually .... it's never been the world's best timekeeper, but I live with the bent case, the twisted strap and the deeply gouged and scratched crystal because they're memories of the various motor-cycle accidents, rock-climbing falls and other unexpected tribulations ...... it's never been serviced just because I know that Rolex would return it in "perfect" condition with none of the "life events" left visible whilst charging me an arm and a leg to spoil something I'm happy to live with.
I respect your decision. However, I would not think less of you if you chose to buy the occasional broken Frantone pedal, fix, it, and offer it on Reverb for the going resale rate. You have bills to pay, and the collector market for your vintage pedals will exist whether you like it or not.
As an aside, I've been tempted by the sight of your classic 564B scope in the background, and I got myself a lovely RM564 for the recent holiday season. I still like my modern (24 year old) Tektronix digital scope for day to day work, but I also love the classic old gear. I also picked up a nice Tek 310A not long ago. The way the chassis swings open for servicing delights me.
Hey Fran....time to make a new Frantone! Change is a upgrade! The prices today, you could ask higher prices. With prices today you should raise your repair prices. Good luck. Best wishes.
Thanks for the video.
Dear Fran,
I like your videos.
You are looking at this in the wrong way.
Look at it as a positive instead.
Your prices for repair is far too low, you desearve to be paid well, of coarse.
Plus it is worth much more to me to have the very person that made the dingus repair it. (Cool Factor)
Others in the world will do whatever it is they do. We do not make the market, but we have to deal with it.
I don't understand this at all... whatever the seondary market pricing is for your pedals is out of your control. Why would you not offer to repair your pedals? You say a pedal shouldn't cost more used than it did new (I am not sure this is a universal truth...) but shouldn't a pedal repair just cost what it costs? And be done because the unit needs repairing? I agree with other commenters on here that not repairing your pedals will only drive prices and scarcity up, making them even more exclusive and ultra-luxury than they already are. Not to mention reducing the number of musicians who are using and appreciating your creation.
If you really wanted to reduce the price on used models, you could release all the schematics and let people build their own, or start building them again and selling them at a fair price. That would truly subvert the second hand market, but it sounds to me more like you are just seeking control of a situation you feel you lost control of, and doing so in a punitive manner.
If it were that you just don't want to repair them anymore (doesn't sound like thats the issue) then you should provide information so that people can do their own repairs and these pedals can live on. Otherwise what did you even create them for?? It's not making sense. I guess you've got your "principles" though. As a musician who would love my music to be 1/1000th as successful as your pedals (or youtube channel that you also constantly complain about), I think you are in the weeds on this one Fran...
What is a "FranTone" please define. What do they look like and what do they do??
Frantines are guitar effects pedals. Check Fran’s earlier videos there’s several on the pedals, Fran designed and manufactured them.
Obviously Fran is going to Fran her way. I can understand where she is coming from. Not how I would do it but I ain't making no XXXtones or anything else people would want to buy. Do wish you were getting some of that sweet green Fran but I have to rest assured knowing you get more value out of what you are not getting.
💯
It is sad that you're no longer making or repairing Frantone pedals. The fact that your used pedals can go for $1,000 is testament to the quality of the devices - both the sound and the build. I am not a "pedal guy" and stopped playing guitar for 40 years. Finally retired, I started playing again and discovered your pedals. While I wish I owned one I can't justify the $1,000 price tag.
Wow, that's sad but I understand and admire you for your stand on outrageous prices on used gear. Thanks for all you do, Fran. Love your videos. Hope you are well.
Its certinly not right that you should feed people that really hardly does anything flipping those repaired pedals but on the other hand its a pity if they wont get repaired at all. You could potentially get in and get a much better share of what they sell for by raising the prices a lot and then your pedals might still live on but if you dont want the prices to be high then that will most likely rather raise the prices but if the pedals dont get repaired then there will be fewer and fewer out there and the prices will go up anyway probably way faster as well.
One reason you would repair a pedal is to make it work again for the owner, which is nice for them. If you refuse, because some times the repaired pedal is going to be resold at a high price, you punish the owners who just want their old pedal fixed. It's not their fault some other folks are willing to pay a very high price for an old pedal. Another reason you would fix an old pedal is simply for the money you earn doing the work. If $60 labor is not worth it to you, fine. Charge $120 labor if that's what it takes to buy your time. Or whatever it takes if that's not enough. Be open up front about what the repair is going to cost, and let the market decide if that price is OK. If someone is going to resell the repaired pedal at a high price, at least you, the inventor, now get a bigger portion of that, which helps support your channel. And as others have mentioned, if you keep more pedals working, that should in theory put downward pressure on the used market because of increased supply.
When some people pay huge amounts for the used pedals, it seems to be worth for them. It's not very likely that their survival depends on owning these particular pedals, and I assume that there are alternatives.
Other people just make money flipping things - always have and always will. It's supply and demand. As long enough people buy items at inflated prices, items get listed at inflated prices. It's that simple.
Same thing for vintage synths.
I chose not to buy an original TB-303 on the used market for over $3k and use more affordable alternatives, instead. I am fine with this. To be honest, I would not even dare to gig a real TB-303 if I had one. The quality of music is not determined by the price tag of the gear used to nake it.
I get that you don't like that the high prices on the used market make these products inacessible to many musicians. Maybe my analogy with the TB-303 is wrong. The best thing is not to care about it. I am sure there are many real misician using the pedals and need them to work. Some of them may have even paid reduciolous high prices for them.
Won't that mean less pedals on the market leading to even higher prices?
Don't stop repairing them. Sell the repair as certified and charge accordingly.
Though I think she's just off the whole deal, for reasons I hadn't thought about, amusing nevertheless to think of pricey scrolls of authenticity, optional extra thumbprints, solder splatters, lipstick kissed, ... 😅
I think that would just pump the collectors market, maybe she could do a Rolex and replace key parts with modern quality components.
A musician will have a perfect Frantone pedal and collectors will be left wondering how original it is.. win win?
Thank you Fran !!
The RMS Titanic, is unless at the bottom of the sea, too. But GD, people do love that ship.
Congratulations, Fran- your electronic sins have been left for all time to posterity and the world.
Maybe your looking at these price hikes the wrong way, take advantage of it and jack the repair prices up to suit the market. If XX pedal goes for $1000, then charge a few hundred and reap the rewards of it all.
As for Rolex, I would not blame them, they are using the parts they have, although they could return all the busted bits in a bag
It's the difference between repair and restoration, Rolex is not in the restoration business, they fix a watch to be "like new", if you want to keep the value you send it to someone that does restorations and will only replace broken pieces, usually from scrap watches of the same vintage.
Frantone pedals are so expensive on the resale market because there's a demand it seems but not enough supply of quality hardware. I wish I had been aware of your pedals when you had them in production, so I could buy direct.
I totally support you with this. It's an absolute proof of your higher conscientiousness and integrity. Fran keep on being yourself 👍👍👍
Really sad situation with this.
Better to make them new somehow with clear markings somehow so the newer will keep available for music!
if u wanna lower the cost , open source it, like arduino.
Fran, you will always be a unrestored Rolex to me.
Point of frustration completely understood.
Is anyone actually buying these pedals for that price? You can advertise a price for whatever you want but if nobody pays it.....
Is it time to make more, charge a bit more and bring the price down or say up front i have to mark this as a refurbished pedal which might bring the cost down too. Just s few thoughts, but i know you said it costs a lot more to make them now
Van Gogh don't expect or desire his Sunflowers to sell for $20m.
What if another company like JHS joins forces with you, and you do a rerelease of all the old classics? They do all the hard work with manufacturing and you just ok the design and circuitry. I would think a market flood of those pedals would drive the prices all down on all the OG ones.
I understand Fran. Late stage capitalism has really gotten out of hand. Since the pandemic, everyone wants a quick buck, and they do not care who they step on to get it. The general cross section of society has lost it's definition of what's right and what's wrong. I've experienced this several times in the items I repair as well. The race to the bottom.
It's all about supply and demand, since you cannot buy them new anymore prices go up. If you flood the market with brand new original design the prices on the second hand market will go down considerably.
Fran….perhaps you should feel honored- you made a time honored product- it’s just Capitalism- Ironically it might be up to you to bring the prices down by making new pedals. You will make much money in the beginning but by supplying the demand….prices will drop. Btw….love your channel.
Collector prices have nothing to do with value or original cost. It's emotion that makes people want thing from their youth and pay more for them, and it's the market that enables ridiculous price increases. A 1968 Plymouth Road Runner sold for $3500 new, but the car enthusiast's emotional attachment causes them to pay 30 times that now. Someone else will step in and profit off of your old pedals by repairing and selling them. If your sense of right and wrong won't allow you to profit from that, well, I suppose that's the price of integrity.
Maybe you have addressed this issue before, but is it impractical to re-issue old products? There are almost certainly contract manufacturers that could build them with the quality you want, at prices that allow you to make a profit, allow new owners to experience your pedals at a fair price, and kill the insane inflated used market.
I'd just tell everyone the repair cost is a flat $900. And if they complained, I'd just say "These are a valuable commodity, I'm just charging what the market can bear."
But I can totally understand how you wouldn't want to feel like you're ripping someone off. If anyone actually paid $900 for me to fix their pedal, I'd feel like I'd ripped them off too! Then again, I'd have $900, so that would probably make me feel a little better.
Unfortunately, charging very high prices for repairs just gives a person a reputation as a big jerk.
@@FranLab But refusing to repair them will do the same. Terrible catch 22. Are people really paying $1000 or it that just the asking price? Like on ebay people often put items up for ridiculous prices but the actual price payed is much lower. Currently building a kit guitar, so hard to decide what colors to paint it...
Very sad state of affairs on materialism today. I do like the graphics on your pedals. Very eye catching ingenious pleasing to the eye. Plus the names!
I know nothing about your situation or these pedals so maybe it's not in the cards that you make more, but doing so would help bring the price back to Earth. Scarcity is what's causing the price to rise.
There is always some people out there who have to ruin it for the rest.
completely understandable
From another engineer I totally agree with you and much respect for standing up.
I'm sure you've had videos on this, but for those unaware of the tech, the entire concept of repairing pedals won't matter once the majority of the pedals out there are surface mount (i.e. the very very tiny circuits that are too fragile and small to fix unless you have specialized irons & lots of patience). I wonder if your pedals being expensive (combined with scarcity), and lots of other through-hole designs, are just the indirect result of using components that can be sourced and fixed.
Nobody will be able to repair my SMT Boss BD2 if it gets a beer spilled on it. Even smaller designers like, EQD, Walrus, Source Audio etc are using SMT. Years from now, if something fails, and those companies are gone, it will be pretty hopeless for the average person to even approach the repair. So it's inevitable, through hole pedals will remain in circulation and go up & up, while the rest will be salvaged.
I am kind of blown away by the amount of temper tantrums and unsolicited life advice in the comments. A person you don't know made a decision you don't understand. Moving on.......
Appreciation is the Mark of Excellence
No offense but it is one thing to list a pedal at those prices and another for someone to actually pay that price.
Fran, Just double or triple your repair costs. Take the money. This is the collectables market, Anything goes. Help yourself. This no place for integrity and principals.
"This no place for integrity and principals." Then it's no place for Fran, which is why she's done.
@@emiliaolfelt6370 DUH...
Fran. Set a flat rate repair of 200.00 or even more.
If you're customer can show proof of purchase then renegotiate
I certainly understand your dismay, Fran. If you're still open to suggestions, perhaps offering warranty repairs to the original purchaser only, charging a premium for out-of-warranty repairs, and publishing the serial numbers of repaired pedals so their resale value is presumably lowered.
Or, just do what you want.
It was only about a month ago that I got my first set of pedals, £100 for four of them, so rest assured that the philosophy of cheap and cheerful lives on. (Though with these modern ones it's probably easier to get them replaced than to get them fixed if they break, which is kind of sad to me)