I've kind of zeroed in on your teaching videos because I feel you capture the ability to simplify somewhat complex components of tennis technique and also pointing out that not one style is right for all. Some of the best servers of all time seemed to spend not much time analyzing their skillset, Goran and Rusedski come to mind. Both guys have been quoted saying " I throw the ball up and I hit it" We should all be so blessed, right? Also helps to be well over 6" tall. Thanks again and keep up the good work.
Another great video from this channel. As a recreational player, one should perhaps aim for something like 2:52, slow, relaxed but stable serve to begin with (note that, even though it's slow, proper pronation of the arm is happening here). Even in this basic serve, there's a slight knee bend at the trophy pose (you can see it at 0.25x speed). I suspect that this bend, however subtle, might be quite fundamental for the natural fluid motion of serve. Also, at the trophy pose, the two shoulder blades are likely gathered together (accordingly, the chest is pulled open), which probably is key to maintain the height of the right elbow. These are my thoughts now. Correct me if I'm wrong!
thank you, best video I found on the serve. Especially the details on how to toss the ball, bending of arm after contact (Sampras Style) and the special forehand grip used by Becker. Good advice also to start first learning properly the flat serve before kick serve, thanks
Thanks for your key point. Very useful! I always thought I rotate my upper body during a flat serve, but recorded myself after watching this clip. My upper body was totally closed causing shoulder pain. Will keep your points in mind!!
Thank you, Nick, so much! Now, I understand why some of my serve 2nd bounce is at the middle of the fence and some of them are at the bottom. Now, it makes total sense for me!
Nick you may not remember but I was one of your first maybe the first video review a few years ago as a beginner. You took a look at my serve. I’m playing 4.5 now and up to UTR 7. I’m able to play competitive sets with d3-d2 kids now. You said I had potential to hit the highest rec / club level and I have a lot in part to your videos. Thanks for all your help over the years. The gains have slowed now and I have to work on specific things now in hitting. Next steps for me are finishing more points at net and getting a bigger flat serve. I was clocked at 112 at MSUs indoor facility but I mostly hit slices and kicks. At 4.5+ you need the occasional free point especially indoors so that’s my next target a good 115 bomb at around 50% into a decent spot. I think it’s possible there’s a guy on here on Winston’s channel that’s probably 5’6” hitting close to 120 at times so at 5’9” I think I can do it. Anyway have a great weekend and would love to see more of you playing competitively. I used to think at around 4.0 that I was good. When you get into 4.5+ there’s a whole new world that opens up and you realize you have no chance against players or your caliber. There’s this guy at our club in his 50s that was a former top atp guy. He routinely destroys the very best juniors and top club guys in our area. And those too juniors and college guys destroy me. It’s still fun though the endless grind. But realistically getting to 5.0 or utr 10+ isn’t likely for me at 35+. So with that said at my level … and I realize this now is that you would likely double bagel me. Maybe I sneak a game off some errors from you but that’s probably it. Good to see your channel grow over the years.
as a shorter guy it makes sense to do the bent arm version. it adds a little more topspin right? seems like smarter serve to pick up for us dudes under 6 feet who don't want to do kick serves all day thoughts?
I hit consistant , moderate power serves but very few freebies from good players as I have great form on shadow swings, but dont get that whip motion when serving high or low toss. my shoulder doesnt get that good turn as the racket drops like when I do shadow swings, tried half serves too, get stuck in backscratch just long enough to take away the power, if you could do a vid on racket drop with the toss and key elements to get that whip going, all us 4.0 players would love to get some free points like you power servers, the ball in the air changes my swing
John, I don’t recommend shadow swings, because we are consciously thinking about parts of the swing that we are not aware of during the acceleration phase. The shadow swing will therefore never match the real swing. I will do a video on the racquet drop in the near future.
do you consider to buy high FPS camera sometime? (maybe you already did, IDK) just sometimes it would be cool to have a real slo-mo in your video! cheers!
One question, Coach: My topspin serves are good enough. So are my slice serves. But my flat serves are not reliable at all. What am I suppoed to do? To give up on flat serves or keep daring to commit a fault at first serve? Many thanx for your reply in advance.
Hi Nikola, Every time I watch your videos (even though I watched it before), I pick up something new. This time what I noticed is that when you serve (flat serve), you rotate your body but your right foot stays in place. And only after you hit the ball, the right foot moves forward. I was doing it wrongly; I was not only rotating my body but moving my right foot at the same time; so I would hit the ball while my right foot was already either into the court or moving towards the court. I will need to change it. Thank you!!
Hi Dmitry I think you are just rotating without going forward, basically just spinning around your left foot. Toss the ball inside the baseline and lean forward
I have watched a LOT of beginner serve technique videos and not one of them ever mentioned the angle in relation to the body one must throw the ball. Finally, I found one after months searching. Phew! I did a lot of experimenting with this myself and could never figure it out. So, it's between 12 and 1 o'clock, but I'm still not fully clear on this. Where is 12 O'CLOCK?. I would imagine it's the same angle your left foot is pointing (as a right handed player). IS THIS CORRECT? Thank you.
@@IntuitiveTennis But does that hold for both the ad AND the deuce? Serving from the deuce, wouldn't that put 1 o'clock too far to the right of the net strap? I envision the clock face as perpendicular to the vector/line connecting you and your serving target.
Hi Nik, awesome lesson. I have a question about the position of the right shoulder at contact. Is it slightly forward compared to the left one, similar to what happens on the forehand?
tennis92, thank you. The right shoulder is definitely not ahead of the left shoulder on the flat serve. That would be more of a throwing motion and we don’t want that. On the flat serve, we are simultaneously releasing/extending/pronating the forearm and rotating the torso into the contact. At contact the shoulders will be parallel to each other while the right shoulder is above the left shoulder. However, any spin applied to the ball will leave the dominant shoulder behind the non dominant shoulder.
Great video, thanks so much,, I'm 6'2 and I need to take advantage of my height, which allows me to be able to his down on the ball, instead of trying to spin in, I think my first serve could have some good power with a consistent flat serve, and I will work on my kick for the second
Even at your height you still need spin to bring the ball down in to the court . A straight line from the top of your reach will not touch the ground in the service court when projected . The geometry of the court will not permit this . You would need to be a whole lot taller .
Thanks Nick another good one on serve basics. Can you speak a bit to the elbow drive. The two keys, as far as i can tell, is that the serve motion into the ball is initiated by driving the elbow UP however, next, to keep the racket on edge into the ball, the elbow must then drive FORWARD. The elbow must not stop after driving up or the racket will not come into the ball on edge. Have I got the elbow movement correct?
Forgot I watched this 4 years ago. LoL and probably hit thousands of serves since then and what you say is simple and exactly true💯. I tend to use the Sampras style when going short and sharp in the box on the ad side for an ace or service winner. It gives more clearance over the net which is higher there but good anywhere in the box👍
I'm saving-up for your Intuitive Serve course. (I've never had to think too much about serve mechanics personally other than top-spin / kick; my punters are likely to be less simple to unravel however.). You Croats do some strange (serving) body stuff!
Hi I just started digging up your awesome videos, previously been watching the feel tennis site, you both are amazing coaches but i´m in a bit of a dilema here. The other coach says its wrong to follow through straight to target on serve but you say completly the contrary. What should I do AHH!! hahah Thanks!!!
Everyone talks about which bevel to put your knuckle on. Which is all well and good, and I did that, but I would almost automatically switch my grip mid serve because it felt so unnatural. Turns out, I was holding the racquet too high. The moment I starting holding it lower down, it felt much more natural in my hand and my serve improved basically instantly. So, that's something to keep in mind. You might be holding the racquet too high up if the grip feels too unnatural.
Hi Nik, a very good instruction here. I am an intermediate club player and just started to find a feel for a flat serve. I felt that I tried not to bend my elbow after contact and many of my serves went long. After watching your video, I think if I had bent my elbow, it would have helped to bring the serve in. Would that make sense? I sure will have to try that when I go out on court. Would appreciate your comment. Thanks.
@@IntuitiveTennis Before I got a chance to practice flat serves after watching this video, I had to go to play a match this morning. I tried to apply the keep elements you mentioned in the video, body turn, elbow bend, it worked out like a charm. Hitting my targets, aced my opponents, and several love holds service games. It was such a great feeling. THANK YOU! THANK YOU and THANK YOU!!!
Hi Nic, many thanks for all your videos, some of which I've watched multiple times : ). Far from sensationalism but closer to gold as I've found out over time. Could you please do a video on the differences in toss location and serve stance on the deuce and ad side, given that the angles differ. Thanks again.
Please understand that the height of the bounce in the returner’s box is unrelated to spin! The height of the bounce is directly related to the amount of compression the ball undergoes when it hits the ground. The higher the trajectory, the more the ball compresses on landing; it will NEVER bounce as high as the high point of the trajectory, but will jump/move forward with applied spin. You can’t apply spin 90 degrees (at a right angle to the flight path), so there can only be a very modest resetting of the ball’s path after landing with side spin.
Love your video I enjoy them that I don't skip ads. Can you please send me a odered list of your videos I could use for training a club Male and female players
Hey Nick! I dont have a flat serve in my arsenal, my coach just taught me a kick serve or topspin serve. The only factor I can think of that my coach not teaching me a flat serve is because I am short. I am 5'4, can shorter players learn flat serves?
Thank you for this advice. Does someone with a good spin serve still want to go for a flat serve on all their first serves?? Or only use occasionally or not at all? Like, does Federer hit flat serves?
So at contact on a flat serve we should be facing the net, fully rotated? Many coaches teach that we should be at a slight angle, looking up at the ball, not fully facing the net.
Coach, 3 yrs ago is when I first trying/learning flat serve but top spin serve is always reliable My flat serve always seems to miss the serving boxes by a long shot How can I fix this?
Thanks for the video. So with the Sampras serve does pronation remain the same as the straight arm flat serve (I.e before and continuing pronation)? Thanks
Thank you SP, pronation into the contact is the same. Continuing pronation will depend on the individual, in Sampras case it appears that it occurred on all his serves.
Intuitive Tennis thanks for the response and awesome videos! My coach told me to start watching your videos so have been religiously following them lol.
nice info but there's no mention of leading with the racket edge (after racket drop) or wrist/racket pronation which I think is the most important aspect of the flat serve which is what you demonstrated. Otherwise one would start with the "waiters tray". Plus learning to trust with leading with the racket edge (especially with beginning students) will allow progressions with other serves that require more spin hence slice & kick serve. Your thoughts?
Hi Nicola, thank you so much for your videos. they are all great and informational. I just watch your video tribute to your dad and it has made me appreciate your knowledge even more. I agree with your dad's view that "lag and snap" should come naturally or something to that effect. Thank you for the great video. Now, I have some questions about flat serve. What is your opinion on hitting the ball at its peak or on the rise OR when the ball is coming down? you did not touch this so I am curious. Which one is more difficult and which one do you recommend? thanks
The farther you edge towards a forehand grip, the more you must emphasize the "mouse trap" flip of the wrist at the apex of your upward attack. Becker, Sampras, and other high-contact point servers do a big mouse trap snap at the top. Otherwise, you shift more towards a backhand grip to get the lead edge over the ball, while keeping your rear hip lagging behind. Somehow you have to counteract your upwards leg drive with a rapid snap of the racket head, so you can meet the ball high and have a good look-down angle at the service court. After that, it's just a matter of perfecting your toss, developing great rhythm, and practicing a couple hundred serves per day. For three years.
Unfortunately, my coach taught me kick serve only. So, the issue that I have very slow serve ~ 90 km/h. Can you make some tutorial how to fix serve in that case.
Excellent analysis of the Sampras-type elbow bend vs. keeping the elbow straighter. Next practice session I'm going to experiment with this. Question Nick: What do you consider a minimally acceptable first-serve percentage for the flat serve? What do you strive for in your matches? Of course the quality of one's slice and especially kick serve is going to factor into this.
I’m really trying to develop a solid flat serve. I noticed how your hitting arm is constantly in motion and you don’t appear to pause in the trophy position. I think I pause in the trophy position is this wrong? Also your right about pronation. With shadow swings I can feel the pronation but with a ball I can’t really tell. I think I’m too focused on the ball. All I can tell is whether or not the shot feels good. More often than it does not probably because I struggle with the toss. Maybe I’ll try to slow things down and not worry about speed and improve my timing. Anyways thanks for the videos.
Im 40, playing tennis for 8 years and still trying to finetune some elements of my strikes. One question almost nobody has ever answered me on the serve regarding the racket drop after reaching the trophy pose. Does it happen naturaly because of the rotation of the upper body or is it me who has to drop it the racket? Dont laugh, many coaches still havent answered that and only tell me "look how it is done"... most of your videos have already helped me take my tennis to the next level for my skill ceiling ofc. Im playing tennis for a hobby but i m trying to play correctly rather than just play how you have to play to win (trash balls etc)... Thanks in advance
Do you need to do full pronation after contact with the ball? I struggle with my flat serve having learned that full pronation will generate more power and also having a full raquet drop as well. I end up having spin to the ball instead of flat specially when I am conscious of the racquet drop. I hope you can make a video regarding challenges with the flat serve.
Hi Nik, I have a question about serve mindset. Does it happen to you to serve just thinking about the target without necessarily knowing before if you are going to hit slice, kick or flat? I mean, do you always consciously choose the rotation before serving or sometimes it comes naturally and you just focuss on the target?
Rock, that’s a very good question. At the high level, players do not serve randomly. The type of serve (flat, kick, slice) and the target is selected prior to serving. When it comes to the execution, the entire thing is performed intuitively without thinking about any mechanics.
@@IntuitiveTennis what happens to me is that whenever I choose a target, I will automatically have a spin in order to serve in that spot, based on the natural swing path of the racquet I guess. For example for a wide serve on the deuce side, I would usually hit a slice if I don' t consciously think about a different spin. I wonder if that's something I should change. What do you suggest?
Rock, very common problem. You are getting spin/slice by accident. Yes, it’s easier to spin out wide to ad side and slice out wide to deuce, but I suggest learning to hit all serves to all targets.
@@IntuitiveTennis thanks Nik. Will try that. Funny thing, I actually can, but whenever I don't think about it, I just have "the spin by accident" thing 🙂. Thanks again
I've been struggling for the longest time on the flat first serve (and all serves for that matter) but I recently started to serve better after tossing a bit to the right. I used to hear 12 o clock so I would toss in line with my head but now I toss just a bit out to the right of my head. Was my original interpretation of 12 o clock correct? If so, it seems like tossing there would just be harder for most players because it's a bit of an unnatural motion for the arm to go straight forwarding in line with the head rather than a bit out to the right. Am I missing something?
ive been struggling with my flat first serve percentage so i came here to see what I am doing wrong. I tend to hit it long and tried throwing it out in front more with higher toss. I noticed you don't really throw it that much in front. Is that because you are a) tall or B) doing a slow flat serve to show us the motion? when you play a real match are you throwing the ball further into the court??
@@IntuitiveTennis ok thank you for clarifying. next question - I tried striking my flat serve today at 11 o clock on the snap instead of the usual 12 o clock and it was heavy but still going in. Am I imparting sidespin? or some kind of spin. wait, am I essential hitting it the same way as if someone used a eastern backhand grip????
Predrag, depends on your style of serve and how far you lean forward into the court. Federer throws the ball slightly in front (slightly in front the tip of his left shoe) on flat serves and he doesn’t lean in much. Raonic on the other hand throws the ball well inside the baseline and leans in quite a bit.
Tough question, on flat serve I try to toss something like ball drop 40cm from the baseline, for the second servе little be shorter. But I do not force flat serve too much, I prefer rather have a high percentage of 1st serve. Hvala na odgovoru.
Easy tip: Serving to deuce court, line up your toss arm with the net post, release ball at shoulder level, straight up. Serving ad court, line up your toss arm slightly right of net post, release at shoulder level. BOOM!
If I have different grip for the flat and kick (2nd) serve, i'd sometimes find it difficult to be consistent especially on the 2nd serve. Is it possible to hit the flat using 2nd serve grip, with the grip slightly to the eastern backhand? How?
@@IntuitiveTennis can you give any players name having this habit, hitting 1st and 2nd serve using continental grip with slightly to the eastern backhand?
Alfando, I don’t know. I have a suspicion Edberg had a slight eastern grip on all serves. Pat Cash and Pat Rafter would have different grips for different serves. This is very much a product of the serve and volley era, where players tried to mix the serve up as much as possible. Nowadays you don’t see this too often. Some players like Becker and Rafter had a slight fh grip on the flat serve. I talk about it briefly here: ua-cam.com/video/bnSf8XjTMuU/v-deo.html
I grew up playing baseball, centerfield. So developed a strong arm which translated to easy racket head speed on serve. Having that shoulder dexterity allows me to serve slices and a very hard flat serve (never figured out the kick serve). I noticed it is much easier for me to generate power on the flat serve with the semi western grip. it seems like cheating because all tennis players feel they have to use continental or theyre violating the tennis gods. what do you think? I bet my flat serve is at least 110.
The advice to learn the flat serve before the slice or topspin serve confuses me. For years, I heard people criticized for hitting a big bash first serve that rarely went in, followed by a poop-it-in second serve. But that's what you do if you decide to learn the flat serve first but having mastered it yet. Others say, "Don't his a poop-it-in second serve; learn to slice or even top it!" But to avoid double-faults (because the first serve usually misses and the second serve is not rock-solid) they say, "Try hitting your second serve twice." That would mean trying to master the flat serve last. Of course, coaches can have different opinions, but where there is a difference of opinion they ought to explain the reason they think the others are wrong.
Because the kick serve is the most difficult of serves (I am partly starting to succeed sometimes), would you recommend to serve the first serve with full speed (flat) and reduce the power to the second serve (also flat)? I mean, if you are not familiar and consistent with the kick serve. I am aiming to succeed next summer a proper kick serve. My slice is also not so consistent (learning still). I certainly would not like to serve waiters serve as a second serve, but have to do that sometimes (kind of unbelief strikes), when hitting net or going over the service line too often.
This video answers your questions in great detail 👉 ua-cam.com/video/U39OzzOxaMM/v-deo.html
6 років тому+1
Can you explain why people say to "hit up on the ball"? Hitting down seems much more logical and looks like what the pros do, but why all the "hi up" talk...or sometimes they say "up and out". Thanks
@ I'm curious as well b/c most coaches emphasize hitting up. However, I feel that the pronation and downward trajectory of the arm is enough to bring the ball in the box without having to consciously aim down. If I hit a serve long, I'll compensate by inching the toss forward a bit... this will lead to a more downward hit, but I'm not intentionally hitting down.
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I think is backhand instead of forehand grip, index's neckle on bevel # 1. am I wrong?
coolest piece of advice on the flat ever! simple, compact, no unnecessary blahblah! thanks for that..
I've kind of zeroed in on your teaching videos because I feel you capture the ability to simplify somewhat complex components of tennis technique and also pointing out that not one style is right for all. Some of the best servers of all time seemed to spend not much time analyzing their skillset, Goran and Rusedski come to mind. Both guys have been quoted saying " I throw the ball up and I hit it" We should all be so blessed, right? Also helps to be well over 6" tall. Thanks again and keep up the good work.
Love the lesson. Right to the point and says much more in fewer words. That's a sign of a good teacher.
Another great video from this channel.
As a recreational player, one should perhaps aim for something like 2:52, slow, relaxed but stable serve to begin with (note that, even though it's slow, proper pronation of the arm is happening here).
Even in this basic serve, there's a slight knee bend at the trophy pose (you can see it at 0.25x speed). I suspect that this bend, however subtle, might be quite fundamental for the natural fluid motion of serve. Also, at the trophy pose, the two shoulder blades are likely gathered together (accordingly, the chest is pulled open), which probably is key to maintain the height of the right elbow. These are my thoughts now. Correct me if I'm wrong!
Muyu, you said it well 👌
OMG 😱 Muyu!!!
If I would have that much of observation, I gonna defeat many, many in fact. I really wish I had!
Thanks for your time and analysis!
Great breakdown
Excellent technical info! Great video!
thank you, best video I found on the serve. Especially the details on how to toss the ball, bending of arm after contact (Sampras Style) and the special forehand grip used by Becker. Good advice also to start first learning properly the flat serve before kick serve, thanks
My pleasure shakermaker 👍
Thanks for the info about the top spin of the flat serve and the Sampras way.
Thanks for your key point. Very useful! I always thought I rotate my upper body during a flat serve, but recorded myself after watching this clip. My upper body was totally closed causing shoulder pain. Will keep your points in mind!!
🔥
Just started learning how to play tennis and I am literally using your videos on the court to get a start.
you are a good instructor. thanks.
Thank you, Nick, so much! Now, I understand why some of my serve 2nd bounce is at the middle of the fence and some of them are at the bottom. Now, it makes total sense for me!
Early Nick videos still gold
Nick you may not remember but I was one of your first maybe the first video review a few years ago as a beginner. You took a look at my serve. I’m playing 4.5 now and up to UTR 7. I’m able to play competitive sets with d3-d2 kids now. You said I had potential to hit the highest rec / club level and I have a lot in part to your videos. Thanks for all your help over the years.
The gains have slowed now and I have to work on specific things now in hitting. Next steps for me are finishing more points at net and getting a bigger flat serve. I was clocked at 112 at MSUs indoor facility but I mostly hit slices and kicks. At 4.5+ you need the occasional free point especially indoors so that’s my next target a good 115 bomb at around 50% into a decent spot. I think it’s possible there’s a guy on here on Winston’s channel that’s probably 5’6” hitting close to 120 at times so at 5’9” I think I can do it. Anyway have a great weekend and would love to see more of you playing competitively.
I used to think at around 4.0 that I was good. When you get into 4.5+ there’s a whole new world that opens up and you realize you have no chance against players or your caliber.
There’s this guy at our club in his 50s that was a former top atp guy. He routinely destroys the very best juniors and top club guys in our area.
And those too juniors and college guys destroy me. It’s still fun though the endless grind. But realistically getting to 5.0 or utr 10+ isn’t likely for me at 35+. So with that said at my level … and I realize this now is that you would likely double bagel me. Maybe I sneak a game off some errors from you but that’s probably it.
Good to see your channel grow over the years.
Thank you very much for the tips coach. God blesses us all.🌞🌛👍
Great video that actually explains the serve
Excellent. Thank you very much.
Jorge, Thank You 🙏 🤝
Another great serve video!
Ira Do, 👍🙏
as a shorter guy it makes sense to do the bent arm version. it adds a little more topspin right? seems like smarter serve to pick up for us dudes under 6 feet who don't want to do kick serves all day
thoughts?
Great video thank you!!
I hit consistant , moderate power serves but very few freebies from good players as I have great form on shadow swings, but dont get that whip motion when serving high or low toss. my shoulder doesnt get that good turn as the racket drops like when I do shadow swings, tried half serves too, get stuck in backscratch just long enough to take away the power, if you could do a vid on racket drop with the toss and key elements to get that whip going, all us 4.0 players would love to get some free points like you power servers, the ball in the air changes my swing
John, I don’t recommend shadow swings, because we are consciously thinking about parts of the swing that we are not aware of during the acceleration phase. The shadow swing will therefore never match the real swing. I will do a video on the racquet drop in the near future.
Very knowledgeable coach
do you consider to buy high FPS camera sometime? (maybe you already did, IDK) just sometimes it would be cool to have a real slo-mo in your video! cheers!
For sure
awesome video thanks a lot
atliakinci, 🙏👍
One question, Coach: My topspin serves are good enough. So are my slice serves. But my flat serves are not reliable at all. What am I suppoed to do? To give up on flat serves or keep daring to commit a fault at first serve? Many thanx for your reply in advance.
futures ToT, impossible for me to give advice without seeing the serve sorry.
Hi Nikola, Every time I watch your videos (even though I watched it before), I pick up something new. This time what I noticed is that when you serve (flat serve), you rotate your body but your right foot stays in place. And only after you hit the ball, the right foot moves forward. I was doing it wrongly; I was not only rotating my body but moving my right foot at the same time; so I would hit the ball while my right foot was already either into the court or moving towards the court. I will need to change it.
Thank you!!
Hi Dmitry
I think you are just rotating without going forward, basically just spinning around your left foot.
Toss the ball inside the baseline and lean forward
@@IntuitiveTennis Got it! Thank you!
Fantastic! Clear description . Perfect demonstration .
I have watched a LOT of beginner serve technique videos and not one of them ever mentioned the angle in relation to the body one must throw the ball. Finally, I found one after months searching. Phew! I did a lot of experimenting with this myself and could never figure it out. So, it's between 12 and 1 o'clock, but I'm still not fully clear on this. Where is 12 O'CLOCK?. I would imagine it's the same angle your left foot is pointing (as a right handed player). IS THIS CORRECT? Thank you.
Ezzony, the clock is in front of you. Picture the clock face strapped up to the middle of the net. So where the net strap is would be 12 o’clock
@@IntuitiveTennis But does that hold for both the ad AND the deuce? Serving from the deuce, wouldn't that put 1 o'clock too far to the right of the net strap? I envision the clock face as perpendicular to the vector/line connecting you and your serving target.
Some players have a range of 90 degrees: It could be at front of you, at 45 degrees or parallel to the baseline
@@franciskwok3515 Yes, the same for both. You can slightly angle your body to adjust for ad vs deuce (or doubles).
Hi Nik, awesome lesson. I have a question about the position of the right shoulder at contact. Is it slightly forward compared to the left one, similar to what happens on the forehand?
tennis92, thank you. The right shoulder is definitely not ahead of the left shoulder on the flat serve. That would be more of a throwing motion and we don’t want that. On the flat serve, we are simultaneously releasing/extending/pronating the forearm and rotating the torso into the contact. At contact the shoulders will be parallel to each other while the right shoulder is above the left shoulder. However, any spin applied to the ball will leave the dominant shoulder behind the non dominant shoulder.
@@IntuitiveTennis thanks a lot Nik 🎾
tennis92, my pleasure
Great video, thanks so much,, I'm 6'2 and I need to take advantage of my height, which allows me to be able to his down on the ball, instead of trying to spin in, I think my first serve could have some good power with a consistent flat serve, and I will work on my kick for the second
Cliff, sounds like a good plan. 👍
Even at your height you still need spin to bring the ball down in to the court . A straight line from the top of your reach will not touch the ground in the service court when projected . The geometry of the court will not permit this . You would need to be a whole lot taller .
Thanks Nick another good one on serve basics. Can you speak a bit to the elbow drive. The two keys, as far as i can tell, is that the serve motion into the ball is initiated by driving the elbow UP however, next, to keep the racket on edge into the ball, the elbow must then drive FORWARD. The elbow must not stop after driving up or the racket will not come into the ball on edge. Have I got the elbow movement correct?
Good straight forward....
Just one word..... Superb !!! Thanks :)
Great Lessons!
Forgot I watched this 4 years ago. LoL and probably hit thousands of serves since then and what you say is simple and exactly true💯. I tend to use the Sampras style when going short and sharp in the box on the ad side for an ace or service winner. It gives more clearance over the net which is higher there but good anywhere in the box👍
🔥
3:30 - Bent-arm flat serve produces more spin, power, and lands shorter in the box
thank you for this tutorial
Thanks Nick; simple and intuitive as always.
I'm saving-up for your Intuitive Serve course. (I've never had to think too much about serve mechanics personally other than top-spin / kick; my punters are likely to be less simple to unravel however.). You Croats do some strange (serving) body stuff!
Hi I just started digging up your awesome videos,
previously been watching the feel tennis site, you both are amazing coaches but i´m in a bit of a dilema here. The other coach says its wrong to follow through straight to target on serve but you say completly the contrary. What should I do AHH!! hahah Thanks!!!
Great Intuitive Information.. Thx
Great lesson for the serve. Learned a lot and I am going to practice today!!! thanks and have a great Sunday.
Everyone talks about which bevel to put your knuckle on. Which is all well and good, and I did that, but I would almost automatically switch my grip mid serve because it felt so unnatural.
Turns out, I was holding the racquet too high. The moment I starting holding it lower down, it felt much more natural in my hand and my serve improved basically instantly.
So, that's something to keep in mind. You might be holding the racquet too high up if the grip feels too unnatural.
thank you!
1. Toss between 12 and 1 o’clock
2. Bent arm for higher bounce
very nice explained!
💯
Hi Nik, a very good instruction here. I am an intermediate club player and just started to find a feel for a flat serve. I felt that I tried not to bend my elbow after contact and many of my serves went long. After watching your video, I think if I had bent my elbow, it would have helped to bring the serve in. Would that make sense? I sure will have to try that when I go out on court. Would appreciate your comment. Thanks.
Multitude of reasons why serves go long
@@IntuitiveTennis Before I got a chance to practice flat serves after watching this video, I had to go to play a match this morning. I tried to apply the keep elements you mentioned in the video, body turn, elbow bend, it worked out like a charm. Hitting my targets, aced my opponents, and several love holds service games. It was such a great feeling. THANK YOU! THANK YOU and THANK YOU!!!
Another great video!
Dude you solved my problem. Thanks!!!
A lot of coaches can’t explain flat serve go long. They mix it up with kick serve in order to solve flat serve go long. Yours seems to make sense
Hi Nic, many thanks for all your videos, some of which I've watched multiple times : ). Far from sensationalism but closer to gold as I've found out over time. Could you please do a video on the differences in toss location and serve stance on the deuce and ad side, given that the angles differ. Thanks again.
Very good input , thank you Nikola 👍🏻🎾❤️
I 7:22
I enjoyed the video
Also this was the most useful video for teaching the flat serve
Thanks coach
Glad it was helpful!
Please understand that the height of the bounce in the returner’s box is unrelated to spin! The height of the bounce is directly related to the amount of compression the ball undergoes when it hits the ground. The higher the trajectory, the more the ball compresses on landing; it will NEVER bounce as high as the high point of the trajectory, but will jump/move forward with applied spin. You can’t apply spin 90 degrees (at a right angle to the flight path), so there can only be a very modest resetting of the ball’s path after landing with side spin.
Love your video I enjoy them that I don't skip ads. Can you please send me a odered list of your videos I could use for training a club Male and female players
Hey Nick! I dont have a flat serve in my arsenal, my coach just taught me a kick serve or topspin serve. The only factor I can think of that my coach not teaching me a flat serve is because I am short. I am 5'4, can shorter players learn flat serves?
Yes they can
Thank you for this advice. Does someone with a good spin serve still want to go for a flat serve on all their first serves?? Or only use occasionally or not at all? Like, does Federer hit flat serves?
So at contact on a flat serve we should be facing the net, fully rotated? Many coaches teach that we should be at a slight angle, looking up at the ball, not fully facing the net.
Mark, full rotation on flat serve
Many players and coaches disagree.
Coach, 3 yrs ago is when I first trying/learning flat serve but top spin serve is always reliable My flat serve always seems to miss the serving boxes by a long shot How can I fix this?
I don’t know Tango, could be a multitude of things. I’d start by adjusting your toss.
how do you aim the serve wide vs. T? Is it more w/ the wrist or do you change how much you rotate into the hit?
Thanks for the video. So with the Sampras serve does pronation remain the same as the straight arm flat serve (I.e before and continuing pronation)? Thanks
Thank you SP, pronation into the contact is the same. Continuing pronation will depend on the individual, in Sampras case it appears that it occurred on all his serves.
Intuitive Tennis thanks for the response and awesome videos! My coach told me to start watching your videos so have been religiously following them lol.
Thank you SP, glad to hear that 🙏🙏
Tyvm...
Dnomde, my pleasure
nice info but there's no mention of leading with the racket edge (after racket drop) or wrist/racket pronation which I think is the most important aspect of the flat serve which is what you demonstrated. Otherwise one would start with the "waiters tray". Plus learning to trust with leading with the racket edge (especially with beginning students) will allow progressions with other serves that require more spin hence slice & kick serve. Your thoughts?
Do you need to think about that? The grip helps force it.
Hi Nicola, thank you so much for your videos. they are all great and informational. I just watch your video tribute to your dad and it has made me appreciate your knowledge even more. I agree with your dad's view that "lag and snap" should come naturally or something to that effect. Thank you for the great video. Now, I have some questions about flat serve. What is your opinion on hitting the ball at its peak or on the rise OR when the ball is coming down? you did not touch this so I am curious. Which one is more difficult and which one do you recommend? thanks
Thank you
Here a video on that subject ua-cam.com/video/fkyxz0fxeRY/v-deo.html
Love your videos. |s your academy in Miami?
Nick, you're a good teacher & you are spoon feeding the students🎉
🙏
For a shorter player is the bent or straight better?
thanks Nic
The farther you edge towards a forehand grip, the more you must emphasize the "mouse trap" flip of the wrist at the apex of your upward attack. Becker, Sampras, and other high-contact point servers do a big mouse trap snap at the top. Otherwise, you shift more towards a backhand grip to get the lead edge over the ball, while keeping your rear hip lagging behind. Somehow you have to counteract your upwards leg drive with a rapid snap of the racket head, so you can meet the ball high and have a good look-down angle at the service court. After that, it's just a matter of perfecting your toss, developing great rhythm, and practicing a couple hundred serves per day. For three years.
+Jim Parker- could u describe ur "mouse trap" flip, pls?? thx
Unfortunately, my coach taught me kick serve only.
So, the issue that I have very slow serve ~ 90 km/h.
Can you make some tutorial how to fix serve in that case.
Excellent analysis of the Sampras-type elbow bend vs. keeping the elbow straighter. Next practice session I'm going to experiment with this. Question Nick: What do you consider a minimally acceptable first-serve percentage for the flat serve? What do you strive for in your matches? Of course the quality of one's slice and especially kick serve is going to factor into this.
50% for flat serve (1st serve)
@@IntuitiveTennis Makes sense
Good job. One question: When would you introduce post contact pronation?
It happens on its own
I’m really trying to develop a solid flat serve. I noticed how your hitting arm is constantly in motion and you don’t appear to pause in the trophy position. I think I pause in the trophy position is this wrong? Also your right about pronation. With shadow swings I can feel the pronation but with a ball I can’t really tell. I think I’m too focused on the ball. All I can tell is whether or not the shot feels good. More often than it does not probably because I struggle with the toss. Maybe I’ll try to slow things down and not worry about speed and improve my timing. Anyways thanks for the videos.
Im 40, playing tennis for 8 years and still trying to finetune some elements of my strikes. One question almost nobody has ever answered me on the serve regarding the racket drop after reaching the trophy pose. Does it happen naturaly because of the rotation of the upper body or is it me who has to drop it the racket? Dont laugh, many coaches still havent answered that and only tell me "look how it is done"... most of your videos have already helped me take my tennis to the next level for my skill ceiling ofc. Im playing tennis for a hobby but i m trying to play correctly rather than just play how you have to play to win (trash balls etc)... Thanks in advance
Thank you, that’s an interesting question. I’ll devote an entire video on it...
@@IntuitiveTennis oh nice, cant thank you enough!
awesome 👏
Do you need to do full pronation after contact with the ball? I struggle with my flat serve having learned that full pronation will generate more power and also having a full raquet drop as well. I end up having spin to the ball instead of flat specially when I am conscious of the racquet drop. I hope you can make a video regarding challenges with the flat serve.
Good tutorial! I think I do the straight arm after contact naturally, and people have commented on how my serve doesn't come up, it stays low.
Does the grip change for a flat serve? Thank you
It does not
I find it comfortable to bend my knees before I toss the ball. It gives me more stability. Is that fine?
Hi Nik, I have a question about serve mindset. Does it happen to you to serve just thinking about the target without necessarily knowing before if you are going to hit slice, kick or flat? I mean, do you always consciously choose the rotation before serving or sometimes it comes naturally and you just focuss on the target?
Rock, that’s a very good question. At the high level, players do not serve randomly. The type of serve (flat, kick, slice) and the target is selected prior to serving. When it comes to the execution, the entire thing is performed intuitively without thinking about any mechanics.
@@IntuitiveTennis what happens to me is that whenever I choose a target, I will automatically have a spin in order to serve in that spot, based on the natural swing path of the racquet I guess. For example for a wide serve on the deuce side, I would usually hit a slice if I don' t consciously think about a different spin. I wonder if that's something I should change. What do you suggest?
Rock, very common problem. You are getting spin/slice by accident. Yes, it’s easier to spin out wide to ad side and slice out wide to deuce, but I suggest learning to hit all serves to all targets.
@@IntuitiveTennis thanks Nik. Will try that. Funny thing, I actually can, but whenever I don't think about it, I just have "the spin by accident" thing 🙂. Thanks again
I've been struggling for the longest time on the flat first serve (and all serves for that matter) but I recently started to serve better after tossing a bit to the right. I used to hear 12 o clock so I would toss in line with my head but now I toss just a bit out to the right of my head. Was my original interpretation of 12 o clock correct? If so, it seems like tossing there would just be harder for most players because it's a bit of an unnatural motion for the arm to go straight forwarding in line with the head rather than a bit out to the right. Am I missing something?
I get into the clock analogy here 👉 ua-cam.com/video/PXt7NbymwRw/v-deo.html
Best video to explain that "flat serve" is not 100% completely flat, otherwise it'd be long most of the time!
good stuff
Awesome video as always! It’d be cool to do a flat serve video with Samir too. 👍🏻😀
ua-cam.com/video/RReBwUHe1ug/v-deo.html
If your ball keep hitting the net does it mean u didn't throw high enough or u need to stay longer with your toss arm?
Could be
ive been struggling with my flat first serve percentage so i came here to see what I am doing wrong. I tend to hit it long and tried throwing it out in front more with higher toss. I noticed you don't really throw it that much in front. Is that because you are a) tall or B) doing a slow flat serve to show us the motion? when you play a real match are you throwing the ball further into the court??
Yes good observation
Without use of body on a demonstrative serve I don’t throw it in front, however, on a full body serve I do
@@IntuitiveTennis ok thank you for clarifying. next question - I tried striking my flat serve today at 11 o clock on the snap instead of the usual 12 o clock and it was heavy but still going in. Am I imparting sidespin? or some kind of spin. wait, am I essential hitting it the same way as if someone used a eastern backhand grip????
I'm watching this 14 hours before a game ;-;
The ball, how far should be in front of you at the moment of hitting?
Predrag, depends on your style of serve and how far you lean forward into the court.
Federer throws the ball slightly in front (slightly in front the tip of his left shoe) on flat serves and he doesn’t lean in much.
Raonic on the other hand throws the ball well inside the baseline and leans in quite a bit.
Tough question, on flat serve I try to toss something like ball drop 40cm from the baseline, for the second servе little be shorter. But I do not force flat serve too much, I prefer rather have a high percentage of 1st serve. Hvala na odgovoru.
Predrag, high 1st serve percentage is very smart. 👍👍
Nema na čemu
Easy tip: Serving to deuce court, line up your toss arm with the net post, release ball at shoulder level, straight up. Serving ad court, line up your toss arm slightly right of net post, release at shoulder level. BOOM!
You’re the best!
If I have different grip for the flat and kick (2nd) serve, i'd sometimes find it difficult to be consistent especially on the 2nd serve. Is it possible to hit the flat using 2nd serve grip, with the grip slightly to the eastern backhand? How?
Alfando, that’s a good question. I think it’s possible, but most players will struggle hitting flat with a eastern backhand grip.
@@IntuitiveTennis can you give any players name having this habit, hitting 1st and 2nd serve using continental grip with slightly to the eastern backhand?
Alfando, I don’t know. I have a suspicion Edberg had a slight eastern grip on all serves. Pat Cash and Pat Rafter would have different grips for different serves.
This is very much a product of the serve and volley era, where players tried to mix the serve up as much as possible.
Nowadays you don’t see this too often.
Some players like Becker and Rafter had a slight fh grip on the flat serve.
I talk about it briefly here:
ua-cam.com/video/bnSf8XjTMuU/v-deo.html
Is the toss 11-12 o'clock for lefties?
Yes
5 fps slow motion, cool dude
I grew up playing baseball, centerfield. So developed a strong arm which translated to easy racket head speed on serve. Having that shoulder dexterity allows me to serve slices and a very hard flat serve (never figured out the kick serve). I noticed it is much easier for me to generate power on the flat serve with the semi western grip. it seems like cheating because all tennis players feel they have to use continental or theyre violating the tennis gods.
what do you think? I bet my flat serve is at least 110.
The advice to learn the flat serve before the slice or topspin serve confuses me. For years, I heard people criticized for hitting a big bash first serve that rarely went in, followed by a poop-it-in second serve. But that's what you do if you decide to learn the flat serve first but having mastered it yet.
Others say, "Don't his a poop-it-in second serve; learn to slice or even top it!" But to avoid double-faults (because the first serve usually misses and the second serve is not rock-solid) they say, "Try hitting your second serve twice." That would mean trying to master the flat serve last.
Of course, coaches can have different opinions, but where there is a difference of opinion they ought to explain the reason they think the others are wrong.
This is where the confusion lies pronation vs no pronation, turning shoulders in, don't turn shoulder in, stay to your side as you reach for contact.
Because the kick serve is the most difficult of serves (I am partly starting to succeed sometimes), would you recommend to serve the first serve with full speed (flat) and reduce the power to the second serve (also flat)? I mean, if you are not familiar and consistent with the kick serve. I am aiming to succeed next summer a proper kick serve. My slice is also not so consistent (learning still). I certainly would not like to serve waiters serve as a second serve, but have to do that sometimes (kind of unbelief strikes), when hitting net or going over the service line too often.
This video answers your questions in great detail 👉 ua-cam.com/video/U39OzzOxaMM/v-deo.html
Can you explain why people say to "hit up on the ball"? Hitting down seems much more logical and looks like what the pros do, but why all the "hi up" talk...or sometimes they say "up and out". Thanks
@ I'm curious as well b/c most coaches emphasize hitting up. However, I feel that the pronation and downward trajectory of the arm is enough to bring the ball in the box without having to consciously aim down. If I hit a serve long, I'll compensate by inching the toss forward a bit... this will lead to a more downward hit, but I'm not intentionally hitting down.
No pronation in the flat serve?
Ron, always pronation into the contact. Continuing pronation will not occur every time.
Took me two years to begin mastering the beginner flat serve 😅
👌👌👍👍
Dr, 👍👍🙏🙏
Hi Nick, can you take a look at this medvedev clip ua-cam.com/video/DeynHaCn-s0/v-deo.html is he using the Becker/Rafter grip? Thanks!
It’s doesn’t look like it, but it’s too far away. I can’t tell for sure