Still echoes today! I think post-punk blossomed in 1978 from Siouxsie and the Banshees, Magazine, Wire, Stranglers, Devo. Stranglers' Black and White might be the first post-punk record in May 1978.
@@neyrinckaudio1604 the banshees scream I’ve always seen as the first post punk album,one month before pils first album. Saying that wire were the first band I saw in 77 at the height of punk. It’s quite a hard genre to define. I’ve always seen bands like jd,pil,pop group,gang of 4 banshees au pairs etc as post punk
Quick correction: Curtis was working at the local job centre, not a rehab centre, and was assisting the woman into finding work as part of her benefits entitlement.
If that’s the case, thanks for the clarification! This was my source, and might’ve missed the specific context when reading it: “Curtis primarily drew the lyrical inspiration for "She's Lost Control" from a young woman with whom he had become acquainted through his employment as an Assistant Disablement Resettlement Officer at a Macclesfield occupational rehabilitation centre between 1978 and 1979.”
@@LowEndUniversityThe confusion is that they’ve given a job centre such a complex name in that link. He worked in the job you say, just at a simple job centre, where people go to find employment. They’re calling looking for a job “occupational rehabilitation” lol.
The track “ transmission” is a masterclass in making the most out of two notes. He plays open, staccato, loud, soft, net the neck, at the bridge, lets sympathetic strings ring, and at times beats the hell out of his bass. All over mainly two notes. Absolute genius.
Man, what a great channel. Not only are you great at parsing these songs, but you treat all of these artists with immense respect. The cool idea of following the comments section’s song suggestions also ensures that you feature great music!
If you watch it live the second part coming in is Bernard Sumner chording on his guitar. The guitar is just heavier than the bass in this song. There was only one bass.
Yeah, that’s not a good indication of how it’s actually played though. Sometimes live performances have to make concessions due to the difficulty of reproducing it live. As an example - The Cure always play Primary live with guitar and bass even though the album is two basses. This studio recording is absolutely a second bass, and it makes it more interesting than the live version as a result.
I was lucky enough to see them live at a local youth club when i was 12, (a school friends older brother who worked for Factory records sneaked us in). That second part is Bernard on guitar.
@@zoeherriot The Cure DO play Primary with 2 basses live, though - the Bass VI is played in the bass range on that song. You can see this in both Show and In Orange. And there is a bass playing roots under Barney's guitar chording, yes, but the whole thing is not Peter chording on his 6 String or anything.
Just a little info... my father in law worked with Ian Curtis at the smaller place in Macclesfield, which you can see at the start of the film about Curtis called "Control" ... when Ian leaves his house in Barton Street, crosses South Park Road to enter the building. It's an excellent movie and many of the other locations in the film are historically correct. They even moved modern cars, and parked older cars in the streets for example. He said that Ian was very conscientious with his work, but also had an intense, maybe depressed side to him. Being the generation above, he didn't know who Joy Division were untill later, but I definitely got from him good vibes about Ian, with him expressing that it was such a shame that he didn't get find the correct help with his mental health.
Endless shout out to Mr Morris on drums, who could make modern teens think that was programmed drums. Kraftwerk, by the way, was in the mix of sounds introduced to the band. And we are Anglo-Saxon after alll...
Lucky enough to see joy division as a support act in London 78. Thank god I got there early as I’d never heard of them til that night. They had only been on telly for their first performance doing shadowplay a few weeks earlier. I didn’t know if I was watching the best thing ever or the worst. Watching Ian Curtis going full tilt dancing is something I’ll never forget
Hooky used to play so high on the neck because when they first started playing his gear was so cheap the bottom end sounded diabolical. He tried playing further up the neck and Curtis preferred the sound, so they stuck with it.
I almost wore out the grooves on that 12" of "Ceremony" b/w "In a Lonely Place." In both songs, and in different ways, you could hear the roots of New Order (and I know New Order recorded both songs after Ian, of course).
The video was obviously made very much later to go with the song, and not the other way around.. That's what I hate about music videos, they dictate a certain way of envisioning the song. As a bass player in the 80s, we were all doing that Peter Hook D&E string strum. it's amazing how many songs he got, and other people got with that combination. Great video. You have an amazing ear. I loved watching you figure that out so quickly.
Gotta admit I’m always a lil sad when I see the new vids pop up from a non 90-00’s punk band which I’ve never heard of….BUT, I always end up enjoying every second cause I’m right there with you reacting on a first listen basis. This first experience was so cool cause all I knew about joy division was in an interview on Conan’s pod Billy Corgan said they were the most important band of all time in terms of how we think about music. I think we both felt a glimpse of why together here. Always the best 15 min of my night Mark! 🤘
I think that second bass is actually a guitar octaved down with effects. There are two great movies which deal with Joy Division - "Control", which is a straight biopic of the band (and excellent), and the bizarre and humorous (but no less accurate) "24 Hour Party People", which deals with the history of Factory Records. Both are well worth a watch. Hannett's peculiar way of recording - and more peculiar personality - is highlighted in the second movie, where he's excellently portrayed by Andy Serkis. So too is the change from Joy Division to New Order.
As another commenter mentioned, I highly recommend watching the film 24 Hour Party People for some context on the Manchester music scene in the 70s and 80s. It's a British biographical comedy with Steve Coogan playing Tony Wilson (Factory Records owner/music journalist).
Thank you for this great, respectful analysis. On the tuning note: in his book Hook mentions that the producer Martin hannett, altered the pitch of the songs so that they are in sympathetic keys to each other
You should try their live version on the "Something Else" BBC program. You'd get a better visual idea of the bands' playing techniques. You could also buy the Joy Division 'Heart And Soul' box set and dive in and be amazed.
I kinda know Peter Hook 🪝! He signed my vinyl sleeve of their timeless classic Closer. He also sent me a t-shirt through the post! A great bloke. ~ C was here in Sep 2024
@@thesoundlikechameleons2082 it's the chorus pedal he uses that is about 90% of his sound, the original late 70's version,. the re makes don't quite sound as good
The Song was recorded ca 40 years before this "reimagined" video was made. Therefore the band are not aligning their song to the scenes, if anything the directors aligns his scenes to the dynamics of the music.
Right. It seemed like a loose nod towards the original subject matter, but was depicted a bit more like a mental health episode in the video to me, maybe manic depressive or bipolar disorder.
It’s fresh to see this band through the eyes of a younger accomplished bassist. I was in my prime when these bands were prevalent. The fresh look is welcoming. Thank you
She's Lost Control, Digital, Wilderness, Leaders of Men are some of my favorite basslines, Peter Hook is a prove that bass don't need to be complex to be great.
@@eboethrasher I was at the Joy Division celebration day in Macclesfield 2 weeks ago and a very good tribute band, Transmission, played 24 Hours. Whilst obviously we didn't get Ian Curtis, what we did get was what Joy Division would have sounded live in a club. The bass and the drumming was a great sound. I have only seen New Order once, back in 87 and they played Ceremony, Love Will and Atmosphere.
Joy Division released 2 Albums Unknown Pleasure and Closer and Curtis appeared as singer and Lyricist on both. Closer was released after Curtis's death however.
There's an old interview with Peter Hook where he talks about the development of this sound. I believe when they first started his base amp was broken. He couldn't hear himself live unless he played high
It was a sh*tty bass loudspeaker cabinet he bought from his former music teacher, but yes. Ian Curtis loved the sound and encouraged him, so as a matter of fact, the role of bass and guitar were swapped in Joy Division.
6:14 Peter Hook usually plays up high, although he does go low sometimes and it's just as good, I highly recommend checking out more New Order and Joy Divison songs, he's got some great stuff
hell yeah. Breathing Fear is a great song too. What Happens Now, When in Heaven, and the beautiful longer pieces, especially Gone World Gone and Mad as Snow. I honestly think Death of Cool is their peak. Julian Swales has such a freaking beautiful noise on top of those great basslines and frankly some tasty drumming too. A total shame they never made it bigger, but I think in the early-mid 90s, the world was not ready for such straight-forward gay lyrics. A shame. Great lyrics. Great music. I had heard Drive That Fast on 120 Minutes back when it was out but never got to follow up on them as I didn't drive or anything at the time. If I could go back and change one thing...
It is a terrific song. I've always been impressed with the way it gets more frenetic as the song goes along. Mirroring the girls epeletic attack. It really brings it home now such a person would feel.
Definitely a track that feels different depending on which recording you hear, this (the 1979 studio version), the 1980 synth heavy re-recording, and the live recordings. And then there's intense video footage of JD performing live. Difficult to pick a favourite.
I first heard this song from girls against boys, so didn't hear joy division until much later. I didn't know the back story both from the band and song, so thank you for including this as well.
It's amazing how much awesome music they put out in such a short time. According to the movie Control, the double hissing was made by using spray cans. New Order went on and actually performed songs that were for Joy Division (In a Lonely Place) or rerecorded their own versions. But overall, New Order had a much lighter tone to their music. Love both of them.
@LowEndUniversity go with early NMA with Stuart Morrow on bass, so Frightened. Check out the albums NMA and Vengeance. Running in Rain is also great for bass.
You should check out Mick Karn... his solo work and with "Japan" & "Dali's Car". Amazing fretless bass player. Unfortunately, he passed away at the age of 52.
I wouldn't say Hooky "only" plays high in new order tracks, the intro to Lonesome Tonight is low, there's a low walking bassline in Sub Culture (album version) there's low bass all over Waiting for the Sirens Call, he plays what the song needs.. BTW, Lonesome Tonight is the song that made me love New Order and the song that made me want to learn bass
You mentioned the bass but not the aerosol can! The snare was actually created by layering the sound of a Syn Drum; an early electronic drum pad, with the sound of an aerosol can tape head cleaner being sprayed. Before the days of Pro Tools or even reliable triggers, the spray had to be recorded live while being played in time for the initial drum track. Someone should put this on the songs wiki, I was aware of this info but had to look for it elsewhere.
I could be wrong but I think I recall Peter Hook saying in an interview that he began playing the higher notes because he struggled to hear himself play during live performances. There's a live performance of this on UA-cam worth checking out.
Thought this video was from when the song came out for some reason. But its only a few years old. AnnaSophia Robb is the actress in the music video in this video.
The bass part always reminds me of Neil Sedaka singing Calendar Girl. " I love, I love, I love my calendar girl. And the guitar part is pretty close to what Kurt Cobain plays in the Nirvana song Dive. He just does the ascending part.
Yep, those are definitely two of their better songs that are very bass-driven that I would have mentioned. I also think Isolation has a pretty tremendous and central bass part, and Atrocity Exhibition too.
A band with a unique approach to bass you might interested in is The Presidents of the United States of America. The bassist used a two-string bass with C# and G# strings only (christened a "basitar"), while the guitarist used a three string guitar with C# low, G#, and C# high strings (named the "guitbass"). All their strings were unusually heavy gauge.
Joy Division/New Order we're at the epicenter of sound and artistry. Factory Records- independent record labels. Hacienda- mega dance clubs/ DJ as celebrity. Aesthetics- stylish videos/ memorable album covers and packaging. Take a look at the film 24 Hour Party People to give you an idea of the times.
Another post-punk/gothic rock band you should listen to is Bauhaus. They also have a unique bassist (David J). I'd suggest the songs She's in Parties and Silent Hedges. Good stuff.
if you didn't find this info elsewhere... Peter Hook started playing higher because in their early punk-i-er days, he was barely able to hear himself in practices with his little, inadequate amp. Playing higher let him hear himself and evolved into him leading the melodies. The song is out of standard pitch because of Ian being unable to sing on key. They'd alter the tape speeds a little and have to make up for the timing changes.
It's hard to follow at first, because the song goes off in two different tonal paths entirely. The main riff implies D to Gm (its ending note, and following from the Bb in the riff)...but once that second riff comes in, it's G to A to Bb to C to D (all major, as you note), then G to A to Bb to C to *A* major. And the bass riff just continues...so the first time, you have that G hanging out and clashing with the D major chord, second time it clashes with the A major chord. It's easy to hear a few minutes in when the first bass riff drops out. Still later that second riff echoes itself a bar later, so while the first part is playing a D, the second one starts on a G... It's wonderfully, deliriously disregarding of conventional keys. And it creates, I think, a fantastic tension...because the song's about "losing control"...but those parts are RIGID, staying in their prescribed key path regardless of what's happening around them. Overcontrol is as dysfunctional as undercontrol?
Joy Division is finding a new audience these days!!! I think there was also a movie called Curtis about him. Oh and they do have a song called These Days if I remember right. I love Joy Division.
There's a thing, a basic technique. Make a chord sequence in all majors, maybe minus the first ground chord, but make them within a minor scale. First time I noticed was with Celestial voices in A saucerful of secrets. It does work in a '60s timeframe.
Such a shame that you didn't feature the live version from i think an Old Grey Whistle Test appearance from around 1980. Im 63 now n as aspiring players ourselves, me n my mates would wear the tape out viewing it,usually after a pub hit!
You mentioned Martin Hannett, check out Buzzcocks - Boredom from the Spiral Scratch EP. They formed after seeing the Sex Pistols. The EP has a simple chunky bass sound that you similar to what you hear in She's Lost Control but in general has a more minimal production and live sound. Sex Pistols popularized the DIY ethos, but the Buzzcocks were the first UK band to self release, basically launching the UK Indie scene and self distribution which became the Rough Trade independent music stores. The US copied the same model but most of the indie labels were sucked up by major labels by the 2000s after Nirvana/Grunge broke into the mainstream.
Surely a reaction to a PIL song is essential for anyone investigating any punk or post punk music where the bass plays a strong role. I would recommend the song 'Poptones' from their second LP 'Metal Box' (aka 'Second Edition').
Listen to the rest of Unknown Pleasures - it's dark as anything but totally seminal. The bassline I always remember Hooky for on that album is Disorder, closely followed by Wildnerness - so special. Disorder even features an intended out of key note, and it sounds great. First track - take a listen.
I'd suggest Neds Atomic Dustbin. Two bass players: One bass player is doing the Hooky/Carlos D style lead bass while one plays a more traditional rock bass line. I saw Ride live last week, and they did a similar thing on some newer songs.
I often find it difficult to distinguish bass and gutar in certain Joy Division songs. The guitar goes low, the bass often high and then som Martin Hannett's weird soundscaping in the mix. Often very beautiful and always interesting. I recommend "New dawn fades": Pretty straight forward but then again not. Thanks for reacting!
maybe check out Peter Hook and the Light. After Hooky left New Order, he formed a new band, The Light to sort of honor the legacy of Joy Division and NO. But live, you can see how he plays these riffs.
Sort of but not really. Ian Curtis was heavily into the Doors and Neu etc, an intriguing combination and you hear some of that in what Joy Division became, yes with Hammets input. They did initially just want to play punk and like all those bands then were learning instruments as they went along but the punk diy ethos led to people trying different stuff. Hook describes some of this in interviews and says Ian used to insist he play high. That became the signature sound driving the melody. I like bands that are not hyper technical musicians and trying stuff and leaving space in a song to give it atmosphere. Such a refreshing feel compared to nowadays where everyone seems to want to play as fast as possible and fill everything up.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
This album was basically the birth of post punk and goth rock, and it echoed down through alternative music throughout the eighties.
Still echoes today! I think post-punk blossomed in 1978 from Siouxsie and the Banshees, Magazine, Wire, Stranglers, Devo. Stranglers' Black and White might be the first post-punk record in May 1978.
Absolutely essential listening for anyone interested in alternative rock's glory days. Everyone name-checks this album for a reason.
100% true. You can hear the genesis of many different sounds and genres in Joy Division.
@@neyrinckaudio1604 the banshees scream I’ve always seen as the first post punk album,one month before pils first album. Saying that wire were the first band I saw in 77 at the height of punk. It’s quite a hard genre to define. I’ve always seen bands like jd,pil,pop group,gang of 4 banshees au pairs etc as post punk
I'm always saying, everything after 1980 sounds like Joy Division or Kraftwerk, sometimes both!
Quick correction: Curtis was working at the local job centre, not a rehab centre, and was assisting the woman into finding work as part of her benefits entitlement.
If that’s the case, thanks for the clarification! This was my source, and might’ve missed the specific context when reading it:
“Curtis primarily drew the lyrical inspiration for "She's Lost Control" from a young woman with whom he had become acquainted through his employment as an Assistant Disablement Resettlement Officer at a Macclesfield occupational rehabilitation centre between 1978 and 1979.”
@@LowEndUniversityThe confusion is that they’ve given a job centre such a complex name in that link. He worked in the job you say, just at a simple job centre, where people go to find employment. They’re calling looking for a job “occupational rehabilitation” lol.
Joy Division is a trove of fascinating bass lines - Disorder, Atmosphere, Transmission, etc
Twenty-four hours
even Love Will Tear Us Apart, because most people play it wrong and don't hit the open Ds on every G-string note.
The track “ transmission” is a masterclass in making the most out of two notes. He plays open, staccato, loud, soft, net the neck, at the bridge, lets sympathetic strings ring, and at times beats the hell out of his bass. All over mainly two notes. Absolute genius.
Man, what a great channel. Not only are you great at parsing these songs, but you treat all of these artists with immense respect. The cool idea of following the comments section’s song suggestions also ensures that you feature great music!
Really appreciate the nice words! 🙏🏼
If you watch it live the second part coming in is Bernard Sumner chording on his guitar. The guitar is just heavier than the bass in this song. There was only one bass.
Thank you for saying that because I was gonna say that too. Should of done the live video.
There's 100% a second bass line on the recording though.
Yeah, that’s not a good indication of how it’s actually played though. Sometimes live performances have to make concessions due to the difficulty of reproducing it live. As an example - The Cure always play Primary live with guitar and bass even though the album is two basses.
This studio recording is absolutely a second bass, and it makes it more interesting than the live version as a result.
I was lucky enough to see them live at a local youth club when i was 12, (a school friends older brother who worked for Factory records sneaked us in). That second part is Bernard on guitar.
@@zoeherriot The Cure DO play Primary with 2 basses live, though - the Bass VI is played in the bass range on that song. You can see this in both Show and In Orange.
And there is a bass playing roots under Barney's guitar chording, yes, but the whole thing is not Peter chording on his 6 String or anything.
You should check out Atmosphere. One of the most devastatingly beautiful tracks ever written
For the full experience you really need to see Ian Curtis dancing to the song.
Also: f these stupid “reimagined” videos they’re dreck
yes check out the live version on a TV show calkled "Something Else"
Just a little info... my father in law worked with Ian Curtis at the smaller place in Macclesfield, which you can see at the start of the film about Curtis called "Control" ...
when Ian leaves his house in Barton Street, crosses South Park Road to enter the building. It's an excellent movie and many of the other locations in the film are historically correct. They even moved modern cars, and parked older cars in the streets for example.
He said that Ian was very conscientious with his work, but also had an intense, maybe depressed side to him. Being the generation above, he didn't know who Joy Division were untill later, but I definitely got from him good vibes about Ian, with him expressing that it was such a shame that he didn't get find the correct help with his mental health.
Endless shout out to Mr Morris on drums, who could make modern teens think that was programmed drums. Kraftwerk, by the way, was in the mix of sounds introduced to the band. And we are Anglo-Saxon after alll...
Yes but i wouldn't mixed the drums as loud as they are. Way to Loud
@henrydebruijn2259 they are exactly as they're meant to be.
Hooky is still an absolute phenomenal bass player live. His sound is immense.
Lucky enough to see joy division as a support act in London 78. Thank god I got there early as I’d never heard of them til that night. They had only been on telly for their first performance doing shadowplay a few weeks earlier. I didn’t know if I was watching the best thing ever or the worst. Watching Ian Curtis going full tilt dancing is something I’ll never forget
Hooky used to play so high on the neck because when they first started playing his gear was so cheap the bottom end sounded diabolical. He tried playing further up the neck and Curtis preferred the sound, so they stuck with it.
That ‘high hat’ sound is an aerosol spray!
You should check out "ceremony", the last song they did together. One of the best bass lines
I almost wore out the grooves on that 12" of "Ceremony" b/w "In a Lonely Place." In both songs, and in different ways, you could hear the roots of New Order (and I know New Order recorded both songs after Ian, of course).
JOY DIVISION are a genre for themselves. And this is one of the most memorable bass lines in rock music.
The video was obviously made very much later to go with the song, and not the other way around.. That's what I hate about music videos, they dictate a certain way of envisioning the song. As a bass player in the 80s, we were all doing that Peter Hook D&E string strum. it's amazing how many songs he got, and other people got with that combination. Great video. You have an amazing ear. I loved watching you figure that out so quickly.
You should definitely do a full album reaction to Unknown Pleasures
lol, this one was unprepared enough. this was hard to watch.
Gotta admit I’m always a lil sad when I see the new vids pop up from a non 90-00’s punk band which I’ve never heard of….BUT, I always end up enjoying every second cause I’m right there with you reacting on a first listen basis. This first experience was so cool cause all I knew about joy division was in an interview on Conan’s pod Billy Corgan said they were the most important band of all time in terms of how we think about music. I think we both felt a glimpse of why together here. Always the best 15 min of my night Mark! 🤘
Thanks Chris, that really means a lot! Worry not, there is a lot of that 90-00’s punk coming up. Cheers! 😎
Peter Hook is touring the US right now
New Dawn Fades , my favorite Joy Division track .
First bassline I learnt. One of Joy Division's darkest songs
I think that second bass is actually a guitar octaved down with effects. There are two great movies which deal with Joy Division - "Control", which is a straight biopic of the band (and excellent), and the bizarre and humorous (but no less accurate) "24 Hour Party People", which deals with the history of Factory Records. Both are well worth a watch. Hannett's peculiar way of recording - and more peculiar personality - is highlighted in the second movie, where he's excellently portrayed by Andy Serkis. So too is the change from Joy Division to New Order.
As another commenter mentioned, I highly recommend watching the film 24 Hour Party People for some context on the Manchester music scene in the 70s and 80s. It's a British biographical comedy with Steve Coogan playing Tony Wilson (Factory Records owner/music journalist).
Fantastic film
Super Film
Joy division....Unknown Pleasures, along with new order's 'movement' are two of the best albums ever!!!👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Joy Division and Gang of Four are Peak The Guitarist And The Bassist Didn’t Meet About What To Play Beforehand
You should have watched the live t.v. performance from back in the day. You can see Peter hook playing.
Thank you for this great, respectful analysis.
On the tuning note: in his book Hook mentions that the producer Martin hannett, altered the pitch of the songs so that they are in sympathetic keys to each other
You should try their live version on the "Something Else" BBC program. You'd get a better visual idea of the bands' playing techniques. You could also buy the Joy Division 'Heart And Soul' box set and dive in and be amazed.
I kinda know Peter Hook 🪝! He signed my vinyl sleeve of their timeless classic Closer. He also sent me a t-shirt through the post! A great bloke.
~ C was here in Sep 2024
I got him to sign my EH Clone Theory, he wrote "it's mine!" on it, really nice bloke
@@jedstephensmusic0001 EH Clone Theory?
@@thesoundlikechameleons2082 it's the chorus pedal he uses that is about 90% of his sound, the original late 70's version,. the re makes don't quite sound as good
There's a joy division biopic that documents the recording process, worth a watch
Nice work realing yourself back in from the ‘libretto’… JD has that primal quasi minimalist texture that places the lyric on a perch.😉✌️❤️
The tracks Komakino and From Safety to Where from their catalogue also have some tasty bass lines
Gotta do The Damned!
The Song was recorded ca 40 years before this "reimagined" video was made. Therefore the band are not aligning their song to the scenes, if anything the directors aligns his scenes to the dynamics of the music.
Right. It seemed like a loose nod towards the original subject matter, but was depicted a bit more like a mental health episode in the video to me, maybe manic depressive or bipolar disorder.
These new videos blow
It’s fresh to see this band through the eyes of a younger accomplished bassist. I was in my prime when these bands were prevalent. The fresh look is welcoming. Thank you
I’ve never heard this song (a bit before my time) but Robert Smith played this riff on stage once in a tribute to Joy Division.
She's Lost Control, Digital, Wilderness, Leaders of Men are some of my favorite basslines, Peter Hook is a prove that bass don't need to be complex to be great.
And 24 Hours - the bass line and wonderful drumming from Stephen Morris. Prophetic lyrics as well.....
@@DamienCalnon-uq7zj almost commented 24 Hours, that's an amazing bassline, probably my fave of his.
@@eboethrasher I was at the Joy Division celebration day in Macclesfield 2 weeks ago and a very good tribute band, Transmission, played 24 Hours. Whilst obviously we didn't get Ian Curtis, what we did get was what Joy Division would have sounded live in a club. The bass and the drumming was a great sound. I have only seen New Order once, back in 87 and they played Ceremony, Love Will and Atmosphere.
Joy Division released 2 Albums Unknown Pleasure and Closer and Curtis appeared as singer and Lyricist on both. Closer was released after Curtis's death however.
Heart and Soul contains one of my favourite bass lines. I used to play it all the time as a way to warm up before I practiced.
I love that you retuned your bass (hendrix always made sure he was tuned up) And I very much appreciate your approach.
Appreciate you!
Tones of the oft forgotten but almost universally loved Yamaha BB. The headstock of my '78 is my avatar pic! Peter Hook is one of my all-time faves.
He wasn't using his Yamaha BB at this time, that was all in New Order. He used his fake Ric in Joy Division.
There's an old interview with Peter Hook where he talks about the development of this sound. I believe when they first started his base amp was broken. He couldn't hear himself live unless he played high
It was a sh*tty bass loudspeaker cabinet he bought from his former music teacher, but yes. Ian Curtis loved the sound and encouraged him, so as a matter of fact, the role of bass and guitar were swapped in Joy Division.
6:14 Peter Hook usually plays up high, although he does go low sometimes and it's just as good, I highly recommend checking out more New Order and Joy Divison songs, he's got some great stuff
It because his original Rickenbacker ripoff from japan had such a warped neck he had to play low and he got used to it
you really really need to check out Kitchens of Distinction. start with "drive that fast" or "quick as rainbows" - live if you can
hell yeah. Breathing Fear is a great song too. What Happens Now, When in Heaven, and the beautiful longer pieces, especially Gone World Gone and Mad as Snow. I honestly think Death of Cool is their peak. Julian Swales has such a freaking beautiful noise on top of those great basslines and frankly some tasty drumming too. A total shame they never made it bigger, but I think in the early-mid 90s, the world was not ready for such straight-forward gay lyrics. A shame. Great lyrics. Great music. I had heard Drive That Fast on 120 Minutes back when it was out but never got to follow up on them as I didn't drive or anything at the time. If I could go back and change one thing...
It is a terrific song. I've always been impressed with the way it gets more frenetic as the song goes along. Mirroring the girls epeletic attack. It really brings it home now such a person would feel.
Definitely a track that feels different depending on which recording you hear, this (the 1979 studio version), the 1980 synth heavy re-recording, and the live recordings. And then there's intense video footage of JD performing live. Difficult to pick a favourite.
I first heard this song from girls against boys, so didn't hear joy division until much later. I didn't know the back story both from the band and song, so thank you for including this as well.
Peter Hook is one of my favourite bassists of all time, not the most technical. but he has a presence in the songs that is very unique
Check out the live version at Something Else, the bass is crazy. Just watched Peter Hook last week in Brooklyn, his bass is always insane!
It's amazing how much awesome music they put out in such a short time. According to the movie Control, the double hissing was made by using spray cans.
New Order went on and actually performed songs that were for Joy Division (In a Lonely Place) or rerecorded their own versions. But overall, New Order had a much lighter tone to their music. Love both of them.
I’m sure you’ll find them soon enough, but NEW MODEL ARMY… any early track, but especially “Frightened” is gonna get you very excited!
I have "First Summer After" on my list, which do you think is better of the two?
@LowEndUniversity go with early NMA with Stuart Morrow on bass, so Frightened. Check out the albums NMA and Vengeance. Running in Rain is also great for bass.
ua-cam.com/video/FsRPWvZ9ao0/v-deo.htmlsi=kSSgXs0hlnxA4QgN
No Rest for the Wicked is their second album, I think. Check that one out
Two good movies to watch, "24 Hour Party People" and "Control".
You should check out Mick Karn... his solo work and with "Japan" & "Dali's Car". Amazing fretless bass player. Unfortunately, he passed away at the age of 52.
I wouldn't say Hooky "only" plays high in new order tracks, the intro to Lonesome Tonight is low, there's a low walking bassline in Sub Culture (album version) there's low bass all over Waiting for the Sirens Call, he plays what the song needs.. BTW, Lonesome Tonight is the song that made me love New Order and the song that made me want to learn bass
You mentioned the bass but not the aerosol can!
The snare was actually created by layering the sound of a Syn Drum; an early electronic drum pad, with the sound of an aerosol can tape head cleaner being sprayed. Before the days of Pro Tools or even reliable triggers, the spray had to be recorded live while being played in time for the initial drum track.
Someone should put this on the songs wiki, I was aware of this info but had to look for it elsewhere.
Super fascinating!
Literally anything from Unknown Pleasures is a clinic on bass in the best way imo
I could be wrong but I think I recall Peter Hook saying in an interview that he began playing the higher notes because he struggled to hear himself play during live performances. There's a live performance of this on UA-cam worth checking out.
Listen to 'Insight', 'New Dawn Fades' or '24 Hours'
Thought this video was from when the song came out for some reason. But its only a few years old. AnnaSophia Robb is the actress in the music video in this video.
Bro I am glad that you dig here deep.
Gang of Four needs your attention
Too Shy by Kajagoogoo has the most ridiculous bass part for a pop song
Curtis was yet to suffer a seizure at the time of writing the song. That guy.
The bass part always reminds me of Neil Sedaka singing Calendar Girl. " I love, I love, I love my calendar girl.
And the guitar part is pretty close to what Kurt Cobain plays in the Nirvana song Dive. He just does the ascending part.
Damn, I forgot just how catchy “Calendar Girl” is!
Recommend checking out The Cure pictures of you live 93 from Show concert. Good version to show what Simon does with the bassline.
You might find Digital to be interesting.
Shadowplay is also worth listening to.
Yep, those are definitely two of their better songs that are very bass-driven that I would have mentioned.
I also think Isolation has a pretty tremendous and central bass part, and Atrocity Exhibition too.
A band with a unique approach to bass you might interested in is The Presidents of the United States of America. The bassist used a two-string bass with C# and G# strings only (christened a "basitar"), while the guitarist used a three string guitar with C# low, G#, and C# high strings (named the "guitbass"). All their strings were unusually heavy gauge.
probably the first song i learned to play on the bass!
Joy Division/New Order we're at the epicenter of sound and artistry. Factory Records- independent record labels. Hacienda- mega dance clubs/ DJ as celebrity. Aesthetics- stylish videos/ memorable album covers and packaging. Take a look at the film 24 Hour Party People to give you an idea of the times.
The live version of Transmission is so intense.
Peter Hook often played on the high notes on his bass indeed.
Another post-punk/gothic rock band you should listen to is Bauhaus. They also have a unique bassist (David J). I'd suggest the songs She's in Parties and Silent Hedges. Good stuff.
6:12 Guitar
if you didn't find this info elsewhere... Peter Hook started playing higher because in their early punk-i-er days, he was barely able to hear himself in practices with his little, inadequate amp. Playing higher let him hear himself and evolved into him leading the melodies.
The song is out of standard pitch because of Ian being unable to sing on key. They'd alter the tape speeds a little and have to make up for the timing changes.
lets see your thoughts on early new model army bassist stuart morrow
Just FYI, Ian Curtis in the vocalist on ALL Joy Division albums, even the ones released posthumously
Bauhaus "She's In Parties". I'd say "Stigmata Martyr" but it's the same bass lines the entire song.
It's hard to follow at first, because the song goes off in two different tonal paths entirely. The main riff implies D to Gm (its ending note, and following from the Bb in the riff)...but once that second riff comes in, it's G to A to Bb to C to D (all major, as you note), then G to A to Bb to C to *A* major. And the bass riff just continues...so the first time, you have that G hanging out and clashing with the D major chord, second time it clashes with the A major chord. It's easy to hear a few minutes in when the first bass riff drops out.
Still later that second riff echoes itself a bar later, so while the first part is playing a D, the second one starts on a G...
It's wonderfully, deliriously disregarding of conventional keys.
And it creates, I think, a fantastic tension...because the song's about "losing control"...but those parts are RIGID, staying in their prescribed key path regardless of what's happening around them.
Overcontrol is as dysfunctional as undercontrol?
If I watch Peter hook and the light playing live now,he has 2 bass guitars one playing low notes ( his son) and Peter plays high stuff..
Joy Division is finding a new audience these days!!! I think there was also a movie called Curtis about him. Oh and they do have a song called These Days if I remember right. I love Joy Division.
The Ian Curtis Biopic was called "Control"
@stevenhaas9622 Ahh yes that's it lol... JD is becoming a legendary band.
There's a thing, a basic technique. Make a chord sequence in all majors, maybe minus the first ground chord, but make them within a minor scale. First time I noticed was with Celestial voices in A saucerful of secrets. It does work in a '60s timeframe.
Such a shame that you didn't feature the live version from i think an Old Grey Whistle Test appearance from around 1980. Im 63 now n as aspiring players ourselves, me n my mates would wear the tape out viewing it,usually after a pub hit!
You mentioned Martin Hannett, check out Buzzcocks - Boredom from the Spiral Scratch EP. They formed after seeing the Sex Pistols. The EP has a simple chunky bass sound that you similar to what you hear in She's Lost Control but in general has a more minimal production and live sound. Sex Pistols popularized the DIY ethos, but the Buzzcocks were the first UK band to self release, basically launching the UK Indie scene and self distribution which became the Rough Trade independent music stores. The US copied the same model but most of the indie labels were sucked up by major labels by the 2000s after Nirvana/Grunge broke into the mainstream.
"Insight" is another great song with good bass to check
Peter Hook started playing high in the root because the equipment JD had as a young band in his words "was so crap that he had to play to be heard".
Surely a reaction to a PIL song is essential for anyone investigating any punk or post punk music where the bass plays a strong role. I would recommend the song 'Poptones' from their second LP 'Metal Box' (aka 'Second Edition').
Listen to the rest of Unknown Pleasures - it's dark as anything but totally seminal. The bassline I always remember Hooky for on that album is Disorder, closely followed by Wildnerness - so special. Disorder even features an intended out of key note, and it sounds great. First track - take a listen.
Goosebumps listening to this.
Warsaw ,i think may be the best way to analyse Hooky's work.
I'd suggest Neds Atomic Dustbin. Two bass players: One bass player is doing the Hooky/Carlos D style lead bass while one plays a more traditional rock bass line.
I saw Ride live last week, and they did a similar thing on some newer songs.
.....ah. you've done it. I'll go watch 😂
😉
@@LowEndUniversity you could look at other neds tunes - throwing things is a personal fave
Timeless influence, enjoy. Other songs of theirs to explore, Day of the Lords, Shadowplay, The Sound of Music, No Love Lost, Warsaw and many others.
The Sound of Music is absolutely amazing.
I often find it difficult to distinguish bass and gutar in certain Joy Division songs. The guitar goes low, the bass often high and then som Martin Hannett's weird soundscaping in the mix. Often very beautiful and always interesting. I recommend "New dawn fades": Pretty straight forward but then again not. Thanks for reacting!
He drones all the time, signature sound
maybe check out Peter Hook and the Light. After Hooky left New Order, he formed a new band, The Light to sort of honor the legacy of Joy Division and NO. But live, you can see how he plays these riffs.
2:38 Isn't that Norm from the Fallout tv show??
Yes, yes that is Norm from the Fallout TV show. It was recorded about 4 or 5 years ago as part of the 40th anniversary of the album coming out
GLAD YOU ENJOYED THIS ONE, “UNKNOWN PLEASURES” IS AN ABSOLUTE CLASSIC ALBUM. ALOT OF REALLY GREAT MUSICIANSHIP ON THERE YOUD REALLY ENJOY
Looking forward to hearing it! Cheers my friend!
you are right about the rockiness, before Joy Division they wre a punk band Warsaw, named after the track Warsawa on theLow album by David Bowie.
The bass and guitar switch parts back and forth
When Joy Division started they wanted to be a punk band. Martin changed their sound and ultimately created Joy Division.
And created the goth branch of post punk as well...
Ehhh kinda. The Warsaw ep was already postpunk.
Sort of but not really. Ian Curtis was heavily into the Doors and Neu etc, an intriguing combination and you hear some of that in what Joy Division became, yes with Hammets input. They did initially just want to play punk and like all those bands then were learning instruments as they went along but the punk diy ethos led to people trying different stuff. Hook describes some of this in interviews and says Ian used to insist he play high. That became the signature sound driving the melody. I like bands that are not hyper technical musicians and trying stuff and leaving space in a song to give it atmosphere. Such a refreshing feel compared to nowadays where everyone seems to want to play as fast as possible and fill everything up.
Such a great song.