00:00 This is an off-the-cuff discussion! 01:01 Premise: The Kinks are more significant & influential than the Beatles 02:36 We didn't get 1,000 Beatles, but we got 1,000 Kinks 03:01 Pioneering distorted guitar sound - You Really Got Me 03:34 Distortion, style, manner of playing - seen in later genres 04:11 Political & social commentary, reading the pulse of the times 06:01 Nobody can be better than the Beatles 07:13 Artistry vs. authenticity - Kinks were always true to themselves 08:00 "Come Dancing" vs. McCartney solo work 09:55 Kinks survived & thrived through '70s & into '80s 10:34 Kinks' significance being forgotten in the video age 11:10 Eddie Van Halen - influence, compared to Hendrix 15:31 Beatles music introspective, Kinks more confrontational 17:31 Best Kinks songs at same level as best Beatles songs 19:02 Beatles influence not mainstream? XTC 20:37 Kids dig The Kinks! 23:25 Why aren't the Kinks as renowned? They missed the U.S. boat 24:41 You don't put the Kinks on a lunch box
on ray davies's 13th birthday his sister got for him as a gift his first electric guitar. later that night she went dancing. she died on the dancing floor from a previously undiagnosed heart condition thus COME DANCING and their song don't forget to dance. don't forget to dance always reminds me of the early kinks song don't change. deep into their careers the beatles were recording children's songs such as mr. kite (inspired by an old carnival poster), lucy in the sky (inspired by a child's drawing), good morning (inspired by a cereal commercial), octopus's garden, yellow submarine, bungalow bill (which could have been used for a video clip on captain kanagroo). the beatles only had two rocking songs : back in the ussr (inspired by the beach boys's california girls) and helter skelter (inspired by a ... slide at an amusement park). the beatles basically did pop (the early years), folk rock (after the byrds and dylan), psychedelic (after san fransico had wrestled the title of music capitol of the world away from london). most of their songs are about the universal subject of : love. the kinks on the other hand were much more english, much more observational and much more personal in their music + you really got me changed music forever. when discussing the beatles you MUST mention george martin. he was classically trained. it was he who added the musical complexities to the beatles with his apparent adage 'let's throw some strings on it.'
I was taking a walk on my lunch hour in the Village when I found out Ray Davies was at Tower Records signing cds of, "To The Bone". I saw the line wasn't long, intended to buy it anyway, so I got on the line. Ray was sitting at a table dutifully if dourly signing whatever was offered. I don't remember anyone with him. When it came to be my turn I asked him to make it out, "To Dan a fan" He did as instructed adding his name and I told him I made some really good friends through his music. His reaction was exactly what I expected ,a working man doing his job, fulfilling his lot in life. Now I have it in writing Ray Davies is a fan of Dan. Love the Kinks. There's so much it always seems fresh. Love the Beatles but the Kinks are always new, timeless.
i feel ray needed this expressive outlet growing up. always the introvert unlike dave, music helped him out his cocoon a bit but don't believe he ever felt an intense rivalry with any of his contemporaries. he ripped revolver apart in a music mag review at the time if that says anything about the man. furthermore don't think lennon, mccartney nor harrison ever wrote anything with the exquisite beauty waterloo sunset evokes. ray infuses the fly on the wall dimension better than most of his ilk.
I just always preferred the kinks though I cannot really put my finger on why. I do think that kinks catalogue has been less consistent but some records I like more than any Beatles albums.
on ray davies's 13th birthday his sister got for him as a gift his first electric guitar. later that night she went dancing. she died on the dancing floor from a previously undiagnosed heart condition thus COME DANCING and their song don't forget to dance. don't forget to dance always reminds me of the early kinks song don't change. deep into their careers the beatles were recording children's songs such as mr. kite (inspired by an old carnival poster), lucy in the sky (inspired by a child's drawing), good morning (inspired by a cereal commercial), octopus's garden, yellow submarine, bungalow bill (which could have been used for a video clip on captain kanagroo). the beatles only had two rocking songs : back in the ussr (inspired by the beach boys's california girls) and helter skelter (inspired by a ... slide at an amusement park). the beatles basically did pop (the early years), folk rock (after the byrds and dylan), psychedelic (after san fransico had wrestled the title of music capitol of the world away from london). most of their songs are about the universal subject of : love. the kinks on the other hand were much more english, much more observational and much more personal in their music + you really got me changed music forever. when discussing the beatles you MUST mention george martin. he was classically trained. it was he who added the musical complexities to the beatles with his apparent adage 'let's throw some strings on it.'
The KinKs gave a window into British culture in a way that was at once subliminal and brash. McCartney , I think, wanted to do the Music Hall thing but couldn't do it as well as Davies. Paul reproached Ray about releasing a song like "See My friends" before he did; John couldn't stop listening to "Wonder Boy" (guilty conscience?). Beatles or KinKs?? KinKs, of course!!!
When I was a sophomore or Jr. in college, the school newspaper had an article that argued this point (this was around 2000, 2001). I knew the Beatles really well but I only knew four or five Kinks songs at the time. He made a good argument. You make some good points too. That article made me look more into the Kinks and be more patient with them than I might have been. Some of their stuff is easy to dismiss... Anyway, nice video. Blur /Damon Albarn is one of my favorite Kinks acolytes.
In the late 70s quite a few bands did remakes of the Kinks songs with big hits. People were saying " Thats an old Kinks song!" The fact that the Kinks toured alot , started getting alot of songs on the radio and then there are the die hard fans who were loyal to them. In 1983 The Kinks got there first Top 20 hit with Come Dancing. There are so many reasons. With me it was Kuriosity. I read everything I could read on the band. I owned the " Father Christmas" US 12 inch Dj record. Sure wish Ray Davies would release some new music.
on ray davies's 13th birthday his sister got for him as a gift his first electric guitar. later that night she went dancing. she died on the dancing floor from a previously undiagnosed heart condition thus COME DANCING and their song don't forget to dance. don't forget to dance always reminds me of the early kinks song don't change. deep into their careers the beatles were recording children's songs such as mr. kite (inspired by an old carnival poster), lucy in the sky (inspired by a child's drawing), good morning (inspired by a cereal commercial), octopus's garden, yellow submarine, bungalow bill (which could have been used for a video clip on captain kanagroo). the beatles only had two rocking songs : back in the ussr (inspired by the beach boys's california girls) and helter skelter (inspired by a ... slide at an amusement park). the beatles basically did pop (the early years), folk rock (after the byrds and dylan), psychedelic (after san fransico had wrestled the title of music capitol of the world away from london). most of their songs are about the universal subject of : love. the kinks on the other hand were much more english, much more observational and much more personal in their music + you really got me changed music forever. when discussing the beatles you MUST mention george martin. he was classically trained. it was he who added the musical complexities to the beatles with his apparent adage 'let's throw some strings on it.'
One thing that might be mentioned is that the Kink's could argue that they invented raga rock (simulated sitar) with See My Friends; that or Heart Full of Soul by the Yardbirds which came out several months before Norwegian Wood. Also, The Kinks 'Face to Face' has been considered one of the first concept albums although the record company diminished the concept by only allowing the party line phone ring for the opening track instead of between each track; one character would connect to the next character represented by each song. Village Green Preservation Society would stand out as a pastoral pop concept album. Arthur has been said to be the 2nd rock opera 'recorded' although Tommy beat it to retail line (SF Sorrow by Pretty Thing was the 1st).
@@fearlessdiymusic Thanks. I make these points in other areas of the youtube verse & they often go unheard so it is nice to find them useful here. Thanks for putting together such a nice presentation of how 'influential' the Kinks are!
For Rock n Roll, The Kinks ARE more important than The Beatles, especially for British guitar music bands and that is way more obvious with The Brit Pop era in the 1990s . David Bowie in the early 1980s pointed out that the groups from the mid 1970s to 1980s simply weren’t influenced by The Beatles . The Beatles were a boy band who played to young girls who , due to to natural make up , couldn’t and wouldn’t understand the context of The Beatles songs . They just screamed The Beatles wrote some serious jibberish ,especially Paul . The Kinks wrote about themselves and their environment earlier than The Beatles . That is why very few could take John Lennon seriously when he started getting political . Way too late Yesterday vs Waterloo Sunset ? Or Sunny Afternoon or Dead End Street
I don't know. But what I do know is that the list of other major artists who have covered the Kinks is absolutely incredible. Kinks riffs are ubiquitous in all forms of modern music. Insidious really. And they have been severely punished for not falling in line. The Beatles and Stones knew how to play along and not buck the system. Ray never learned that. I'd say he is artistically at their level for sure.
The Kinks are my 2nd favorite group after the Beatles. The Kinks have always been greatly underrated. My question is why does our society always have to rate? The "Goat" discussion.....I hate it and I follow a different path. I love and enjoy both groups going on 6 decades plus. Both should be enjoyed and appreciated!
@fmellish71 You don't think that he exposed them to a multitude of musical ideas that they otherwise would've never heard? Seriously? Nevermind his rather impressive musical prowess itself. Eleanor Rigby's strings are all his. Fantasticly developed counterpoint well beyond anything that any of The Beatles' would've even been able to articulate as an idea for him to "realize" on their behalf. You give the lads from Liverpool a bit too much unearned credit there.
Kinks more important than Beatles? It's a bold premise ... I guess you've seen the documentary "Echoes of a World: The Making of "The Kinks are the Village Green Preservation Society." I'll paste a link at the bottom of this comment. It features mostly British musicians who describe how The Kinks influenced them, including Paul Weller (The Jam / Style Council), Graham Coxon (Blur), Andy Partridge (XTC), Suggs (Madness), Steve Cradock (Ocean Colour Scene), and Noel Gallagher (Oasis) - Of course, Gallagher's work is famously influenced by The Beatles. It surprised me to hear him describe Village Green as the equal of Sergeant Pepper's. Andy Partridge makes the best case for the The Kinks having achieved greater heights than The Beatles: "He (Ray Davies) has possibly written songs on his own that are better (Sharp intake of breath - Sorry about this; I'm committing heresy) than Lennon and McCartney. I don't think Lennon and McCartney have ever come up with something as poignant as Waterloo Sunset. I don't think they've ever come up with a little symphony like Autumn Almanac or Shangri La, I don't think they've come up with quite the social commentary of Sunny Afternoon, or the romance of Days ... Oh, I'm so sorry, but it's got to be said." So are The Kinks more important? I don't buy it completely, but I think that their influence is grossly underestimated. ua-cam.com/video/Z-ragx6CtTI/v-deo.htmlsi=nJrF_0s69ftwkgSX
Thank you for such a thoughtful and informative response! Thanks for the link and I hope that everyone checks that out as well. Take care and appreciate the insights! Cheers!
The Kinks were great, but this is beside the point. If they were not the guys who played on that Ed Sullivan show where 75 million people watched, they are not as influential. A generation was shopping for guitars the next morning. I grant, "You Really Got me" is very influential, but not the first to feature distortion, that goes back to "Rumble". To say that the Kinks vignettes influenced prog, more than say, "Sgt. Pepper' is ludicrous. I love the Kinks, no question, but not as influential.
Well, that could be said of any music of the past. I think the Kinks have been unfairly forgotten and just wanted to shine some light on them. Take care!
RIP Shel Talmy. With the Beatles - they got Stardom worldwide. Im not sure if THE kINKS were expecting it! Dave was 15 years old. Then on the US tour ( so many stories) - they were banned from the US. The average teen record buyer in the US were unaware of their British singles or that " See My Friends" was the first Indian drone sounding record. I think thats cool " Sunny Afternoon" kept the Beatles from staying at #1. Hey alot of other #1s were out there. When I first got into THE KINKS - there was something I loved!!!!
The Kinks are a great band and Ray Davies is a superb songwriter but as great as the Kinks are, they are not as important as the Beatles. The Kinks were certainly ahead of the Beatles as far as loud guitar distortion but calling the Kinks music more sophisticated than the Beatles is silly. The Kinks music has nothing to do with prog, and production wise, their music never reached the levels of Revolver, much less Sgt. Pepper, Magical Mystery Tour & Abbey Road. A great point is made that Ray Davies songwriting was incredibly multi-faceted and the way Ray humanized the characters in his songs is completely unique in popular music. The Kinks may well be ahead of the Stones & the Who as one of the greatest bands in Rock history. The Kinks are number two, the Beatles will always be number one! God save both the Kinks and the Beatles!
I cant find " Arthur.. ........." 4cd 50th Anniversary box set! There is bew material on there . I have the print out for it. Was it limited edition? I have seen the Kinks 17 X from 1980- 1983 in 4 different states which includes the State of Confusion. I have seen Ray Davies solo show in 1997 and met him and Dave twice. I didn't tell him I have all his records and most of his Sessions and productions, written songs and contributed to Kinks fanzines. I always left a Kinks concert Happy!!!! I miss those Days of new music and tours😊
For Rock n Roll, The Kinks ARE more important than The Beatles, especially for British guitar music bands and that is way more obvious with The Brit Pop era David Bowie in the early 1980s pointed out that the groups from the mid 1970s to 1980s simply weren’t influenced by The Beatles . The Beatles were a boy band who played to young girls who , due to to natural make up , couldn’t and wouldn’t understand the context of The Beatles songs . They just screamed The Beatles wrote some serious jibberish ,especially Paul . The Kinks wrote about themselves and their environment earlier than The Beatles . That is why very few could take John Lennon seriously when he started getting political . Way too late Yesterday vs Waterloo Sunset ? Or Sunny Afternoon or Dead End Street
'Father Christmas' is the ultimate hard rock Christmas song and also a critique of how it is not celebrated in the spirit of what it is presented to be whether you see it as a religious or secular holiday! Van Halen also covered the obscurity Where Have All the Good Times Gone. Listen closely to the bridge of She's Got Everything; you'll hear the melody for the later hit Woman From Tokyo by Deep Purple! Plus, The Romantics do a great cover of She's Got Everything on their debut self titled power pop classic lp!
I would say each band influenced the other, but The Beatles came out of nowhere without precedent and broke so much new ground there’s almost no way to gauge their influence. You Really Got Me certainly was the forerunner of punk and established the riff as no one else had.. but might not have happened without the intro to I Want to Hold Your Hand. One other thought, was recently listening to End of the Season and thought, this is how you really write about a character, this is how you evoke another era.. not When I’m 64, which, bouncy and hummable as it is, lacks the depth Ray brings.
@@mrblue99999 Great points, especially the compare/contrast of End of the Season and 64. Thanks so much for this and for taking the time to watch! Cheers🤘
Cool video. Great arguments. However, on the topic of distortion... The Kinks were not the first to put distortion on record. Dick Dale's "Misirlou", the Pulp Fiction theme, was released in 1962. Heavy guitars on that. If you search for "early distortion in rock'n roll", you'll find surprisingly distorted records going back to the 1940s. The first real distortion on a Beatles track is probably Day Tripper in 1965, although Revolver is where the Beatles adopt proper distortion into their sound. But that's only on record. If you go back to "Live at the Star Club" recorded in 1962, you can hear the punky distortion in their live act. As a Beatles fan, this was a revelation, making it clear that producer George Martin was responsible for cleaning up their guitar sound, making it as palatable as possible for Beatlemania pop fans. Not knocking the Kinks. They're a great band with some great songs, my favourite being "Dedicated Follower of Fashion". Interesting that the Kinks and the Beatles didn't talk about eachother much. I believe they appeared on the same bill several times in 1964. Perhaps they were secretly jealous of one another. I'm definitely team Beatles, yet have nothing but respect for the one and only Kinks. Cheers!
Come dancing was post destroyer and a bigger hit. 2 other moderate hits post destroyer were do it again and living on a thin line. Thank God for destroyer though because that song started me down the Kinks rabbit hole and 40 years later still my favorite band.
I'm afraid that Beatles have it. Purely on the basis of melody and "accessible" lyrics. The Kinks were definitely influential with regard to guitar tone (distortion) and a thumping bass rhythm but their lyrics and style were perhaps a bit too English - based in the mindset/lifestyle of the British people, whereas the Beatles songs were immediately accessible and recognisable to many because most of their lyrics were based around emotions which were the same, Globally.
The Kinks "Shangri-La" and "Dead End Street" were amazing social commentaries about post WWII Britain and people trying to scrape through their everyday lives. The Beatles never had anything like that.
@@fearlessdiymusic "The little man who gets on the train, got a mortgage hanging over his head, but he's too scared to complain, 'cuz he's conditioned that way." Ray Davies got it so well in "Shangri-La."
Love the kinks , they are in my all time top 5 rock bands. No question who is still to this day the greatest rock band of all time. The fab 4, the mop tops , you guessed it. Sadly, when the kinks were not allowed to come to the US. In the late 1960s, the put out some of their greatest music.
The only downside to some of the Kinks early work was production quality. Other than that the songwriting was brilliant! And to get the spirit of the Kinks check out the film promo for Dead Dnd Street. Thanks for the video...
I've always felt that the line from them to punk was clearly drawn. The distortion carried on to metal, but no one would accuse them of being a metal band themselves.
Great question. I think the sonic door they helped open created the possibility for metal. We'll never know, but I wonder if we'd have had Black Sabbath as we know it - or when we got it - without the Kinks.
@@fearlessdiymusic enjoyed it, the Rolling Stones had the best rhythm section compared to the Beatles and the Kinks, so as far as a cohesive musical ensemble that can pump out danceable grooves, that band is the Rolling Stones,
I absolutely adore the Kinks. They made a ton of incredible music, and as a Brit I really relate to the themes in their music too. But calling them more important than the Beatles is absolute clickbait nonsense. Nobody in their right mind would authentically make that argument.
I think the main point of the video is to just have a fun discussion and challenge the status quo. (Though Tris is sincere in this position.) We added some chapters to help highlight the different angles considered. It may not change anyone's mind but it's food for thought. Cheers!
well For me a Kinks fan since 1964 I totaly agree its rays song writing thats far better also I belive thay had a more infulentail mark on furture music world
Everyone who is a fan of whoever "fans" always say there band is better and more influential.yhe stones the who Zeppelin, sabbath velvet underground, Bowie. U could be right I don't know but the Beatles sure influence in his forming bands
I’ll take a lot of McCartney’s solo work over much of The Kinks’ work. I love The Kinks, but most of their albums after their golden 60s era are terrible! I don’t care that they survived, they still came out with true *shit* like the 70s vaudevillian concept albums and bad-sounding cheesy 80s crap, just some real bad stuff in their catalog. Granted Paul’s done some bad music too, but The Beatles were nothing but good throughout their whole career and they broke up at the right moment and never got bad. They burned out and didn’t fade away, and that is infinitely more valuable to me personally! :3
I agree about the “vaudeville” era, but I love their Arista years and stadium rock era. Anyway, thanks so much for watching and taking the time to add to the conversation!
Well these days the younger generation don't even know who the hell the kinks are. The Beatles had 295.5 million records sold versus the 50 million the kinks sold. It doesn't take a genius to figure out which one reached more people and thus had a bigger impact. The Beatles were also better organized in terms of band members and the people who surrounded them. The Beatles broke far more than just some distorted cords that the kinks produced. Also as solo artists the Beatles destroyed the lowly kinks with Lennon, Macarthy, Harrison and Ringo have successful careers. Having said all of this I will take the Stones all day everyday over either band. So in closing this video is nothing more than mental masturbation.
You can make the same argument just take out the Kinks and replace them with Floyd , the Who and yes the Stones it don’t matter It’s The Beatles and everyone else
The Kinks were too British for America and not the silly The Simpsons Stereotype stuff . There’s a reason why people in Europe aren’t always fond of visiting English people . They are an acquired taste Great band though, but yes, their attitude rather their talent ruined them in the US and the US never forgave them. But , that attitude helped them be different to others and they toured the rest of the world
Hahahahahahah...what a joke! Yeah, it wasn't actually the Beatles that started the whole British invasion, it was the Kinks...O come now! There is more to the Beatles than Distortion. The Kinks are way too English in their sound, too insular. The Kinks had one good album and the rest contained some good songs but a lot of filler! Remember now paranoia- soul destroyer!
The Kinks are on another level. The subject matter is timeless. The songwriting is pure genius. They have a mind blowing range of music throughout their catalog. They never played the game. They have total integrity. Had it not been for that U.S. ban between 65-69 they would be held in the same esteem as The Beatles.
Sometimes people find things to talk about.....the Kinks were a good band but when it comes to "influence" there is no comparison when it comes to comparing them to the The Beatles. Who cares if EVH covered The Kinks, that doesn't make The Kinks more influential than The Beatles. Ray Davies would roll his eyes to hear so much analysis for his songs....Beethoven they are not....and NO EVH is not the most influential guitarist ever. Their experimentalism was NOWHERE NEAR that of The Beatles. Come on man.
Thanks for taking the time for this response. I guess my only rebuttal would be that there are a lot more bands in existence that have more in common with the Kinks than the Beatles. I'm thinking heavy guitar tones with garage rock, punk and indie rock having more in common with the Kinks than the Beatles. Take care!
I'm not sure Ray would roll his eyes - he has a pretty high opinion of himself 😁. I completely disagree with you about the influence of the Beatles v that of the Kinks. I think a lot of English people (like me) would disagree with you; those people would include Elvis Costello and David Bowie, to mention but two. At the risk of sounding patronising, this "nobody can be better/more influential than the Beatles" assumption (because that's what it is) tends to come from Americans and, I suspect, Americans who know maybe twenty of the Kinks nearly 600 songs (more if you count Ray's solo stuff). I really like this video and one of the reasons for that is that it's two American guys talking with real insight and knowledge about the Kinks and ditching any lazy preconceptions.
She Loves You vs You Really Got Me? Hmm, one seemed revolutionary and the other seemed like another Buddy Holly song. There was nothing experimental about the Beatles until Revolver.
@@theglavine The early Kink tunes are wicked but they simply don't have the same longevity and larger influence as compared to The Beatles. In 1967 The Beatles surpassed everyone, yes......even the Kinks.
First of all: the headline is misleading. As described below, you are referring to guitar-based music. That's something to discuss, although I do assume, that George Harrison inspired more guitarists with his style, than Dave Davies, who is, without doubt, a kind of original punk on the guitar. But Lennon and McCartney probably also had a greater influence as guitarists/bassists in the overall balance. In any case, more people bought instruments because of the Beatles, or created themselve a band, than because of the Kinks. Incidentally, it isn't particularly surprising, that a track like Helter Skelter was produced by the Beatles, because long before the Kinks even came into being, the Beatles had completed a tough rock'n'roll school in dark clubs and basements and sometimes played quite punk-style Rock'n'Roll there. The overall influence of the Beatles, as much as I like the Kinks, is simply overwhelming. They presented many different styles of music. A single song like "Tomorrow never knows" is probably more influential, than the entire Kinks catalog. Of course, something like that, is difficult to measure. The range of instruments of modern popular culture has been expanded in the long term because of the Beatles, and I would argue, that the Kinks' concept albums wouldn't have been created without Sgt. Pepper. In general, despite various weaknesses, "Pepper" is certainly a sustainable step into, what is now known as prog rock. With their lyrics, the Kinks, or rather Ray Davies, are perhaps even a touch more interesting (although John Lennon also has a lot to offer with his sprawling imagination), but his specific British themes probably generate less interest in other countries, which also prevented them from being more successful in the USA, for example. Another aspect also prevented this, because while the Beatles are "John, Paul, George and Ringo" and the Kinks are a 1 1/2-man band. Ray Davies and Dave Davies, and basically nobody knows the rest. A lack of charisma blocked the band from achieving a sustainable international breakthrough. The Beatles' stuff is also more timeless, while the Kinks' socio-political themes are very much from the 1960s/1970s and are no longer current in this form. A statistical aspect: while the Beatles are among the top 70 most streamed artists of the Internet generation on Spotify, the Kinks are left in the shadows between places 1500 and 1600. The Beatles are streamed ten times more than the Kinks. Based on this alone, one can assume, that even today many more people are inspired by the Beatles, than by the Kinks.
I actually think you are wrong about George/Dave. I can't think, off the top of my head, of any guitarists/songs that are obviously influenced by George, but there are loads influenced by Dave's distortion and punchy (sometimes) style - apart from the covers, there are the rip-offs (Green Day did more than one). Even Pete Townsend openly admitted that "Can't Explain" was basically a copy of Dave's style and sound.
@@adolforodolfo6929 I quote some well-known guitarists. Brian May: I hold George in such reverence, and I think he’s so underrated by the guitar community. “Everyone raves about people who play fast, but if you look at the catalog of stuff he’s produced, it’s colossal”. Dave Grohl: "There was something about him that I almost preferred the most. I loved every single one of them for different reasons, but I kind of connected to George Harrison’s sense of melody more than anyone”. Johnny Marr (The Smiths, The The and others): "George Harrison has always been one of my favourite guitar players,” said the dynamic guitarist. “His approach to the song and creating little parts and moments in records is more something that I can relate to, and along the lines of how I see myself, sure. Out of respect to the guitar greats who came out of the blues rock boom in the ’60s, you have to hold your hands up and show that respect.” John Frusciante (The Red Hot Chili Peppers): One of the few guitarists whose solos I would always listen to was George Harrison,” confirmed Frusciante. “His solos were always wonderful melodies and very intelligent. He always kept the chord changes in the back of his mind and played on top of them in a very clever and tasteful fashion. Before this album (By The Way) I did have a very good look at George Harrison because I wanted to understand why he plays the way he does and what he does and how he plays around those chords.” Joe Santiago (The Pixies): “On [Savoy Truffle], everything was descriptive and had a purpose,” claimed Santiago. “They were talking about a drill to take your teeth out… I forgot the lyrics, but the idea is too many sweets means you will need to get your teeth pulled out. So I always associated that guitar sound with a drill and I wanted that same drilly sound, which probably explains why I like playing like that.” Steve Lukather (Toto): “He’s the reason why I play guitar. I just wanted to shake his hand, but he welcomed me over, and he was incredibly gracious”. While Harrison might have been in the biggest rock band in the world, he never lost that gentle soul." Joe Bonamassa about "Something": he called the song “perfect” when talking about Harrison’s guitar solo on ‘Something’. Dissecting Harrison’s technique, he said: “his song composition a standard bearer at this point of other masterworks to be judged. Any part of the song could be a classic chorus in its own right”. It is said about him: That same standard exists in Bonamassa's technique as well, with him spending over half of his life playing similar crying phrases that Harrison gets out of his guitar. Any guitar player might like to play scale runs, but Bonamassa learned how to make the guitar talk from Harrison. Steve Morse about "Day Tripper": While the iconic guitar line was conceived by John Lennon, Morse remarks how he felt something different when Harrison played it (via Guitar World): “George’s riff pre-dated all the heavy guitar stuff like Led Zeppelin, but it sounded heavy. It really fits the definition of a heavy guitar riff”. Other guitarists with a Harrison connection include, to name just a few: Noel Gallagher, Chris Shiftlett (The Foo Fighters), Mike Campbell (Tom Petty+the Heartbreakers), Jeff Lynne, Paul Simon, Gary Moore, Peter Frampton and also Bob Dylan, Keith Richards, Eric Clapton have elements of Harrison in their guitar style. Personally, I rate the versatility and aesthetics of Harrison's style very highly. He wasn't a guitarist, who played solos that lasted for minutes, but many of his solos are like little songs of their own in the respective track. And one can hear that in at least a dozen different genres in the Beatles, from rock ('n'roll), pop, C&W, ballads, acid rock, to the psychedelic stuff. In the naturally debatable ranking, Rolling Stone lists George Harrison at number 31 and Dave Davies at number 164 of the greatest, best, most important guitarists. Whatever.
Thanks for this reply. It took a while to read and I'm impressed by the reaearch. Less impressed by the Rolling Stone rankings which reflect the Beatles iconic status in the US as a cultural phenomenon; they are iconic here in the UK too, but the Kinks are rated much higher here than in the US, probably because we heard much more of their music than people in the US did after their touring ban. It's also the case that the Kinks music was very English in a way that the Beatles weren't, and less accessible to a lot of US listeners. I meant no disrespect to George. What I do think though is that Dave is a ROCK guitarist in a way that George isn't, very versatile as well, and that his sound/style has had a bigger influence on British music subsequently (a fair bit on U.S. music too)
lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol.. I didnt even have to watch the video and I was lololololololololololololololololololololololololololo
Do you realise how silly your comment makes you sound. "I don't have to watch the video, listen to the argument, to know that it's nonsense. Why not add "I don't have to listen to any Kinks songs to know that it is nonsense".
@@js4187 No, he didn't - there is a world outside the U.S. Here in the UK, where the Kinks' influence on British rock music is widely recognised, Van Halen's cover of You Really Got Me hardly registered.
@@adolforodolfo6929 lolol The UK ? Our State of Vermont laughs at the UK let alone the rest of us . lol The UK , that in itself makes me chuckle . .. KInks widely recognized ....lolololol
Say what you wish, but the Kinks were not Celluloid Heroes. The Beatles did A Hard Days Night, Help, Magical Mystery Tour,. Yellow Submarine, Let it Be. What movies did the Kinks do? None? Ray Davies just wrote a song about movies.
Well, the Beatles were a fully supported pop act that had tons of money, great management and George Martin behind them by the time the movies were made. They were a huge commodity and the Kinks never had that kind of weight behind them commercially. Thanks for this!
@@adolforodolfo6929 Lol. Why a cretinous supposition? The kind of statement you get from a junior high student who doesn’t understand music history but wants to sound controversial and relevant. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@jukesjointOG You're kind of missing the point - the video is is about their musical influence/importance with regard to posterity. It's certainly true with regard to British music in the 80s/90s,
00:00 This is an off-the-cuff discussion!
01:01 Premise: The Kinks are more significant & influential than the Beatles
02:36 We didn't get 1,000 Beatles, but we got 1,000 Kinks
03:01 Pioneering distorted guitar sound - You Really Got Me
03:34 Distortion, style, manner of playing - seen in later genres
04:11 Political & social commentary, reading the pulse of the times
06:01 Nobody can be better than the Beatles
07:13 Artistry vs. authenticity - Kinks were always true to themselves
08:00 "Come Dancing" vs. McCartney solo work
09:55 Kinks survived & thrived through '70s & into '80s
10:34 Kinks' significance being forgotten in the video age
11:10 Eddie Van Halen - influence, compared to Hendrix
15:31 Beatles music introspective, Kinks more confrontational
17:31 Best Kinks songs at same level as best Beatles songs
19:02 Beatles influence not mainstream? XTC
20:37 Kids dig The Kinks!
23:25 Why aren't the Kinks as renowned? They missed the U.S. boat
24:41 You don't put the Kinks on a lunch box
on ray davies's 13th birthday his sister got for him as a gift his first electric guitar. later that night she went dancing. she died on the dancing floor from a previously undiagnosed heart condition thus COME DANCING and their song don't forget to dance. don't forget to dance always reminds me of the early kinks song don't change. deep into their careers the beatles were recording children's songs such as mr. kite (inspired by an old carnival poster), lucy in the sky (inspired by a child's drawing), good morning (inspired by a cereal commercial), octopus's garden, yellow submarine, bungalow bill (which could have been used for a video clip on captain kanagroo). the beatles only had two rocking songs : back in the ussr (inspired by the beach boys's california girls) and helter skelter (inspired by a ... slide at an amusement park). the beatles basically did pop (the early years), folk rock (after the byrds and dylan), psychedelic (after san fransico had wrestled the title of music capitol of the world away from london). most of their songs are about the universal subject of : love. the kinks on the other hand were much more english, much more observational and much more personal in their music + you really got me changed music forever. when discussing the beatles you MUST mention george martin. he was classically trained. it was he who added the musical complexities to the beatles with his apparent adage 'let's throw some strings on it.'
I was taking a walk on my lunch hour in the Village when I found out Ray Davies was at Tower Records signing cds of, "To The Bone". I saw the line wasn't long, intended to buy it anyway, so I got on the line. Ray was sitting at a table dutifully if dourly signing whatever was offered. I don't remember anyone with him. When it came to be my turn I asked him to make it out, "To Dan a fan" He did as instructed adding his name and I told him I made some really good friends through his music. His reaction was exactly what I expected ,a working man doing his job, fulfilling his lot in life. Now I have it in writing Ray Davies is a fan of Dan. Love the Kinks. There's so much it always seems fresh. Love the Beatles but the Kinks are always new, timeless.
What a wonderful story! Thanks so much for sharing this, what an amazing moment that must have been. Take care and thanks for watching!
i feel ray needed this expressive outlet growing up. always the introvert unlike dave, music helped him out his cocoon a bit but don't believe he ever felt an intense rivalry with any of his contemporaries. he ripped revolver apart in a music mag review at the time if that says anything about the man. furthermore don't think lennon, mccartney nor harrison ever wrote anything with the exquisite beauty waterloo sunset evokes. ray infuses the fly on the wall dimension better than most of his ilk.
@@ustheserfs Great analysis! I’d love to read that review of “Revolver!” Thanks so much for this and for watching👍
@@ustheserfs I read the article! Very balanced and a good critique overall.
I just always preferred the kinks though I cannot really put my finger on why. I do think that kinks catalogue has been less consistent but some records I like more than any Beatles albums.
I agree with you! Thanks for this🤘
It also didn't hurt that The Kinks have the greatest lyricist/songwriter the world has mildly known as their front man.
He was an exceptional talent. Thanks for this!
on ray davies's 13th birthday his sister got for him as a gift his first electric guitar. later that night she went dancing. she died on the dancing floor from a previously undiagnosed heart condition thus COME DANCING and their song don't forget to dance. don't forget to dance always reminds me of the early kinks song don't change. deep into their careers the beatles were recording children's songs such as mr. kite (inspired by an old carnival poster), lucy in the sky (inspired by a child's drawing), good morning (inspired by a cereal commercial), octopus's garden, yellow submarine, bungalow bill (which could have been used for a video clip on captain kanagroo). the beatles only had two rocking songs : back in the ussr (inspired by the beach boys's california girls) and helter skelter (inspired by a ... slide at an amusement park). the beatles basically did pop (the early years), folk rock (after the byrds and dylan), psychedelic (after san fransico had wrestled the title of music capitol of the world away from london). most of their songs are about the universal subject of : love. the kinks on the other hand were much more english, much more observational and much more personal in their music + you really got me changed music forever. when discussing the beatles you MUST mention george martin. he was classically trained. it was he who added the musical complexities to the beatles with his apparent adage 'let's throw some strings on it.'
@@johnrunion5357 Great response! Thanks so much for adding to the conversation, take care and thanks for watching!
@@fearlessdiymusic you are very welcome...and thank you.
The KinKs gave a window into British culture in a way that was at once subliminal and brash.
McCartney , I think, wanted to do the Music Hall thing but couldn't do it as well as Davies.
Paul reproached Ray about releasing a song like "See My friends" before he did; John couldn't stop listening to "Wonder Boy" (guilty conscience?).
Beatles or KinKs??
KinKs, of course!!!
Great insights, I had no idea about the relationship between the two bands. Thanks for this!
Fascinating discussion- thanks guys! I'd also point out the Kinks use of Eastern/Indian sound/phrasing with See My Friends and also Fancy.
Thanks so much for this and thanks for watching🤘
When I was a sophomore or Jr. in college, the school newspaper had an article that argued this point (this was around 2000, 2001). I knew the Beatles really well but I only knew four or five Kinks songs at the time. He made a good argument. You make some good points too. That article made me look more into the Kinks and be more patient with them than I might have been. Some of their stuff is easy to dismiss... Anyway, nice video. Blur /Damon Albarn is one of my favorite Kinks acolytes.
Thanks for this! I really feel like the Kinks are unfairly overlooked and many artists do embrace them as a primary influence.
In the late 70s quite a few bands did remakes of the Kinks songs with big hits. People were saying " Thats an old Kinks song!" The fact that the Kinks toured alot , started getting alot of songs on the radio and then there are the die hard fans who were loyal to them. In 1983 The Kinks got there first Top 20 hit with Come Dancing. There are so many reasons. With me it was Kuriosity. I read everything I could read on the band. I owned the " Father Christmas" US 12 inch Dj record. Sure wish Ray Davies would release some new music.
Thanks for this and thanks so much for watching! Take care🤘
on ray davies's 13th birthday his sister got for him as a gift his first electric guitar. later that night she went dancing. she died on the dancing floor from a previously undiagnosed heart condition thus COME DANCING and their song don't forget to dance. don't forget to dance always reminds me of the early kinks song don't change. deep into their careers the beatles were recording children's songs such as mr. kite (inspired by an old carnival poster), lucy in the sky (inspired by a child's drawing), good morning (inspired by a cereal commercial), octopus's garden, yellow submarine, bungalow bill (which could have been used for a video clip on captain kanagroo). the beatles only had two rocking songs : back in the ussr (inspired by the beach boys's california girls) and helter skelter (inspired by a ... slide at an amusement park). the beatles basically did pop (the early years), folk rock (after the byrds and dylan), psychedelic (after san fransico had wrestled the title of music capitol of the world away from london). most of their songs are about the universal subject of : love. the kinks on the other hand were much more english, much more observational and much more personal in their music + you really got me changed music forever. when discussing the beatles you MUST mention george martin. he was classically trained. it was he who added the musical complexities to the beatles with his apparent adage 'let's throw some strings on it.'
I don't think even The Kinks would agree.
@@scottandrewbrass1931 Fair enough! Thanks for checking it out and I’d like to imagine that they would be happy anyone even thought about this🤘
@@fearlessdiymusicTrue😊
no they wouldn't! but then they can't look at this from the outside like us
Oh yes they would hahah
I would make the case a little more specific. The kinks were more authentic than Paul McCartney and the Beatles
That would have been a better way to frame much of the discussion - I appreciate your input!
Billy
They were much more than Lennon bringing Yoko onstage with a voice that sounds like strangling a cat and duck simultaneously.
@@seanharrigan6365 😂
@@seanharrigan6365or pretending that he was working class .
Great conversation, I've always been a Kinks fan, as a working class Brit I can really relate to their lyrics
Their relatability is what always drew me to them. Thanks for this!
distortion, class consiousness, DIYness, "the empire has no clothes!'
Cheers 🤘
One thing that might be mentioned is that the Kink's could argue that they invented raga rock (simulated sitar) with See My Friends; that or Heart Full of Soul by the Yardbirds which came out several months before Norwegian Wood. Also, The Kinks 'Face to Face' has been considered one of the first concept albums although the record company diminished the concept by only allowing the party line phone ring for the opening track instead of between each track; one character would connect to the next character represented by each song. Village Green Preservation Society would stand out as a pastoral pop concept album. Arthur has been said to be the 2nd rock opera 'recorded' although Tommy beat it to retail line (SF Sorrow by Pretty Thing was the 1st).
These are great points! So glad you watched the video and made a valuable contribution to the conversation. Thanks so much🤘
@@fearlessdiymusic Thanks. I make these points in other areas of the youtube verse & they often go unheard so it is nice to find them useful here. Thanks for putting together such a nice presentation of how 'influential' the Kinks are!
For Rock n Roll, The Kinks ARE more important than The Beatles, especially for British guitar music bands and that is way more obvious with The Brit Pop era in the 1990s .
David Bowie in the early 1980s pointed out that the groups from the mid 1970s to 1980s simply weren’t influenced by The Beatles .
The Beatles were a boy band who played to young girls who , due to to natural make up , couldn’t and wouldn’t understand the context of The Beatles songs . They just screamed
The Beatles wrote some serious jibberish ,especially Paul . The Kinks wrote about themselves and their environment earlier than The Beatles . That is why very few could take John Lennon seriously when he started getting political . Way too late
Yesterday vs Waterloo Sunset ? Or Sunny Afternoon or Dead End Street
I would still pick the Beatles over the kinks. But, can you imagine if George Martin was the kinks manager also .
They definitely had no real management or producer to guide them - would have made them much more popular. Thanks for this and thanks for watching!
@fearlessdiymusic that's my point, The kinks would have been more famous and deservedly so with the talent and the writing genius of Ray Davis.
The Kinks practically invented both Heavy Metal and Punk Rock.
They definitely laid the groundwork! Thanks so much for this and thanks for watching🤘
MY "hot take" after five minutes here is that this vid should have WAY more views! Good stuff!
Thanks so much! Share it and let’s spread the love for the Kinks! Cheers🤘
good for u-- i'm in agreement!
@@davidobissonette8848 Cheers🤘
I don't know. But what I do know is that the list of other major artists who have covered the Kinks is absolutely incredible. Kinks riffs are ubiquitous in all forms of modern music. Insidious really. And they have been severely punished for not falling in line. The Beatles and Stones knew how to play along and not buck the system. Ray never learned that. I'd say he is artistically at their level for sure.
Excellent analysis! Thanks for this and thanks for watching🤘Take care!
The Kinks are my 2nd favorite group after the Beatles. The Kinks have always been greatly underrated. My question is why does our society always have to rate? The "Goat" discussion.....I hate it and I follow a different path. I love and enjoy both groups going on 6 decades plus. Both should be enjoyed and appreciated!
Well said! Cheers and thanks for this👍
The Kinks were very good. The Beatles were a brilliant, short phenomenon that rattled the world and changed things forever
Thanks for watching and your take on it, cheers!
The Beatles had George Martin. Therein lies the difference.
Says a lot in relation to Ray Davies' strengths, that's for sure.
@@richarddefortuna2252 That is a very good point! Didn’t even think of that … cheers!
@@richarddefortuna2252 George Martin would've produced in relation of whatever level of ambition and ideas that the Beatles brought in and did.
@fmellish71 You don't think that he exposed them to a multitude of musical ideas that they otherwise would've never heard? Seriously? Nevermind his rather impressive musical prowess itself. Eleanor Rigby's strings are all his. Fantasticly developed counterpoint well beyond anything that any of The Beatles' would've even been able to articulate as an idea for him to "realize" on their behalf. You give the lads from Liverpool a bit too much unearned credit there.
Kinks more important than Beatles? It's a bold premise ... I guess you've seen the documentary "Echoes of a World: The Making of "The Kinks are the Village Green Preservation Society." I'll paste a link at the bottom of this comment. It features mostly British musicians who describe how The Kinks influenced them, including Paul Weller (The Jam / Style Council), Graham Coxon (Blur), Andy Partridge (XTC), Suggs (Madness), Steve Cradock (Ocean Colour Scene), and Noel Gallagher (Oasis) - Of course, Gallagher's work is famously influenced by The Beatles. It surprised me to hear him describe Village Green as the equal of Sergeant Pepper's.
Andy Partridge makes the best case for the The Kinks having achieved greater heights than The Beatles: "He (Ray Davies) has possibly written songs on his own that are better (Sharp intake of breath - Sorry about this; I'm committing heresy) than Lennon and McCartney. I don't think Lennon and McCartney have ever come up with something as poignant as Waterloo Sunset. I don't think they've ever come up with a little symphony like Autumn Almanac or Shangri La, I don't think they've come up with quite the social commentary of Sunny Afternoon, or the romance of Days ... Oh, I'm so sorry, but it's got to be said."
So are The Kinks more important? I don't buy it completely, but I think that their influence is grossly underestimated.
ua-cam.com/video/Z-ragx6CtTI/v-deo.htmlsi=nJrF_0s69ftwkgSX
Thank you for such a thoughtful and informative response! Thanks for the link and I hope that everyone checks that out as well. Take care and appreciate the insights! Cheers!
The Kinks were great, but this is beside the point. If they were not the guys who played on that Ed Sullivan show where 75 million people watched, they are not as influential. A generation was shopping for guitars the next morning. I grant, "You Really Got me" is very influential, but not the first to feature distortion, that goes back to "Rumble". To say that the Kinks vignettes influenced prog, more than say, "Sgt. Pepper' is ludicrous. I love the Kinks, no question, but not as influential.
Thanks for voicing your opinion! And thanks for watching 🤘
You really got me? Got me? And it's history now.
Well, that could be said of any music of the past. I think the Kinks have been unfairly forgotten and just wanted to shine some light on them. Take care!
RIP Shel Talmy. With the Beatles - they got Stardom worldwide. Im not sure if THE kINKS were expecting it! Dave was 15 years old. Then on the US tour ( so many stories) - they were banned from the US. The average teen record buyer in the US were unaware of their British singles or that " See My Friends" was the first Indian drone sounding record. I think thats cool " Sunny Afternoon" kept the Beatles from staying at #1. Hey alot of other #1s were out there. When I first got into THE KINKS - there was something I loved!!!!
Great stuff! Thanks for this! Cheers🤘
The Kinks are a great band and Ray Davies is a superb songwriter but as great as the Kinks are, they are not as important as the Beatles. The Kinks were certainly ahead of the Beatles as far as loud guitar distortion but calling the Kinks music more sophisticated than the Beatles is silly. The Kinks music has nothing to do with prog, and production wise, their music never reached the levels of Revolver, much less Sgt. Pepper, Magical Mystery Tour & Abbey Road. A great point is made that Ray Davies songwriting was incredibly multi-faceted and the way Ray humanized the characters in his songs is completely unique in popular music. The Kinks may well be ahead of the Stones & the Who as one of the greatest bands in Rock history. The Kinks are number two, the Beatles will always be number one! God save both the Kinks and the Beatles!
Thanks so much for adding to the conversation! This a great and thoughtful analysis. Take care and much appreciation!
I cant find " Arthur.. ........." 4cd 50th Anniversary box set! There is bew material on there . I have the print out for it. Was it limited edition? I have seen the Kinks 17 X from 1980- 1983 in 4 different states which includes the State of Confusion. I have seen Ray Davies solo show in 1997 and met him and Dave twice. I didn't tell him I have all his records and most of his Sessions and productions, written songs and contributed to Kinks fanzines. I always left a Kinks concert Happy!!!! I miss those Days of new music and tours😊
An amazing story! I never got to see them and have regrets. Thanks so much for this and taking the time to watch the video. Cheers!
If ya never got to see them then buy " One For The Road" 1979 concert!!!
@ I’ve got it!
For Rock n Roll, The Kinks ARE more important than The Beatles, especially for British guitar music bands and that is way more obvious with The Brit Pop era
David Bowie in the early 1980s pointed out that the groups from the mid 1970s to 1980s simply weren’t influenced by The Beatles .
The Beatles were a boy band who played to young girls who , due to to natural make up , couldn’t and wouldn’t understand the context of The Beatles songs . They just screamed
The Beatles wrote some serious jibberish ,especially Paul . The Kinks wrote about themselves and their environment earlier than The Beatles . That is why very few could take John Lennon seriously when he started getting political . Way too late
Yesterday vs Waterloo Sunset ? Or Sunny Afternoon or Dead End Street
Thanks again!
'Father Christmas' is the ultimate hard rock Christmas song and also a critique of how it is not celebrated in the spirit of what it is presented to be whether you see it as a religious or secular holiday! Van Halen also covered the obscurity Where Have All the Good Times Gone. Listen closely to the bridge of She's Got Everything; you'll hear the melody for the later hit Woman From Tokyo by Deep Purple! Plus, The Romantics do a great cover of She's Got Everything on their debut self titled power pop classic lp!
I should have consulted you before I made the video! A treasure trove of great information. Thanks so much👍
@@fearlessdiymusic LOL. You are much better than I'd ever be at presenting the information. I do like being a researcher.
@@theglavine Thanks again!
Ray wrote songs that make sense no matter what time you’re living in.
Great point. Some of the Beatles work certainly feels dated. Thanks so much for contributing and watching!
I would say each band influenced the other, but The Beatles came out of nowhere without precedent and broke so much new ground there’s almost no way to gauge their influence. You Really Got Me certainly was the forerunner of punk and established the riff as no one else had.. but might not have happened without the intro to I Want to Hold Your Hand.
One other thought, was recently listening to End of the Season and thought, this is how you really write about a character, this is how you evoke another era.. not When I’m 64, which, bouncy and hummable as it is, lacks the depth Ray brings.
@@mrblue99999 Great points, especially the compare/contrast of End of the Season and 64. Thanks so much for this and for taking the time to watch! Cheers🤘
Cool video. Great arguments. However, on the topic of distortion... The Kinks were not the first to put distortion on record. Dick Dale's "Misirlou", the Pulp Fiction theme, was released in 1962. Heavy guitars on that. If you search for "early distortion in rock'n roll", you'll find surprisingly distorted records going back to the 1940s.
The first real distortion on a Beatles track is probably Day Tripper in 1965, although Revolver is where the Beatles adopt proper distortion into their sound.
But that's only on record. If you go back to "Live at the Star Club" recorded in 1962, you can hear the punky distortion in their live act.
As a Beatles fan, this was a revelation, making it clear that producer George Martin was responsible for cleaning up their guitar sound, making it as palatable as possible for Beatlemania pop fans.
Not knocking the Kinks. They're a great band with some great songs, my favourite being "Dedicated Follower of Fashion".
Interesting that the Kinks and the Beatles didn't talk about eachother much. I believe they appeared on the same bill several times in 1964. Perhaps they were secretly jealous of one another. I'm definitely team Beatles, yet have nothing but respect for the one and only Kinks.
Cheers!
Thanks for this! Cheers🤘
Come dancing was post destroyer and a bigger hit. 2 other moderate hits post destroyer were do it again and living on a thin line. Thank God for destroyer though because that song started me down the Kinks rabbit hole and 40 years later still my favorite band.
Thanks for this! I should have included those tracks for sure. Take care and thanks for watching🤘
I'm afraid that Beatles have it. Purely on the basis of melody and "accessible" lyrics. The Kinks were definitely influential with regard to guitar tone (distortion) and a thumping bass rhythm but their lyrics and style were perhaps a bit too English - based in the mindset/lifestyle of the British people, whereas the Beatles songs were immediately accessible and recognisable to many because most of their lyrics were based around emotions which were the same, Globally.
Thanks for this and thanks for watching! Cheers🤘
The Kinks "Shangri-La" and "Dead End Street" were amazing social commentaries about post WWII Britain and people trying to scrape through their everyday lives. The Beatles never had anything like that.
@@wftjet Shangri-La is one of my favorites! Thanks so much for watching and adding to the conversation🤘
@@fearlessdiymusic "The little man who gets on the train, got a mortgage hanging over his head, but he's too scared to complain, 'cuz he's conditioned that way." Ray Davies got it so well in "Shangri-La."
How many bands had hits with Kinks kovers? How many with Beatles covers. 'Nuff said.
@@yoseffeigenbaum9639 Thanks for this and thanks for watching!
The Kinks are the best of the best!!! No argument.
Thanks for this and thanks so much for watching🤘!
Love the kinks , they are in my all time top 5 rock bands. No question who is still to this day the greatest rock band of all time. The fab 4, the mop tops , you guessed it. Sadly, when the kinks were not allowed to come to the US. In the late 1960s, the put out some of their greatest music.
@@randyacuna5643 Thanks for this and thanks so much for watching!
The only downside to some of the Kinks early work was production quality. Other than that the songwriting was brilliant! And to get the spirit of the Kinks check out the film promo for Dead Dnd Street. Thanks for the video...
@@joegallo7162 Thanks for watching! Totally concur on the production point you raised. Take care🤘
Agreed. Next.
Didn’t bother watching the video. The kinks are far more important than the beetles
Thanks for not watching!
Where the Kinks the forerunner of metal....? or even punk?
I've always felt that the line from them to punk was clearly drawn. The distortion carried on to metal, but no one would accuse them of being a metal band themselves.
Great question. I think the sonic door they helped open created the possibility for metal. We'll never know, but I wonder if we'd have had Black Sabbath as we know it - or when we got it - without the Kinks.
Finally, someone is talking sensibly. Now, take a closer look at Dave Davies and his contribution and lasting influence.
@@seanharrigan6365 Thanks for this! A deep dive into Dave is definitely on the horizon👍
@fearlessdiymusic Dave is so underrated that it's criminal
@@seanharrigan6365 Agreed. I’m going to add him to my list of future episodes🤘 Thanks again!
The amount of creating that The KinKs did that The Beatles get undeserved credit for is stupidly, phenomenally astounding.
Agreed. Thanks so much for this and taking the time to watch! Cheers🤘
yup. me and Tara Bowen also, circa PDX, 1981
Awesome!
You are correct.
Thanks for this and thanks so much for watching!
definitely prefer the Kinks to the Beatles
Thanks for this and thanks for watching! Cheers!
@@fearlessdiymusic enjoyed it, the Rolling Stones had the best rhythm section compared to the Beatles and the Kinks, so as far as a cohesive musical ensemble that can pump out danceable grooves, that band is the Rolling Stones,
@ I can get behind that assessment 👍
I absolutely adore the Kinks. They made a ton of incredible music, and as a Brit I really relate to the themes in their music too. But calling them more important than the Beatles is absolute clickbait nonsense. Nobody in their right mind would authentically make that argument.
I guess I'm not in my right mind then! Cheers
I think the main point of the video is to just have a fun discussion and challenge the status quo. (Though Tris is sincere in this position.) We added some chapters to help highlight the different angles considered. It may not change anyone's mind but it's food for thought. Cheers!
well For me a Kinks fan since 1964 I totaly agree its rays song writing thats far better also I belive thay had a more infulentail mark on furture music world
Thanks for watching and adding to the conversation!
Everyone who is a fan of whoever "fans" always say there band is better and more influential.yhe stones the who Zeppelin, sabbath velvet underground, Bowie. U could be right I don't know but the Beatles sure influence in his forming bands
However both bands were sci-ops . Both had ghost writer
Thanks for this and for taking the time to check it out!
amen
Thanks for this and thanks for watching! Cheers🤘
Wow! The most "edgy" title and still only 2k views and not a million subscribers! Seems like "hot takes" won't give you what you'd think they would...
Thanks so much for your support!
I’ll take a lot of McCartney’s solo work over much of The Kinks’ work. I love The Kinks, but most of their albums after their golden 60s era are terrible! I don’t care that they survived, they still came out with true *shit* like the 70s vaudevillian concept albums and bad-sounding cheesy 80s crap, just some real bad stuff in their catalog. Granted Paul’s done some bad music too, but The Beatles were nothing but good throughout their whole career and they broke up at the right moment and never got bad. They burned out and didn’t fade away, and that is infinitely more valuable to me personally! :3
I agree about the “vaudeville” era, but I love their Arista years and stadium rock era. Anyway, thanks so much for watching and taking the time to add to the conversation!
Ya, sure, ha-ha... this makes my day! he-he...
Glad your day has been made🤘😀👍
@@fearlessdiymusic Yes, I am still laughing here. Thanks!
Well these days the younger generation don't even know who the hell the kinks are. The Beatles had 295.5 million records sold versus the 50 million the kinks sold. It doesn't take a genius to figure out which one reached more people and thus had a bigger impact. The Beatles were also better organized in terms of band members and the people who surrounded them. The Beatles broke far more than just some distorted cords that the kinks produced. Also as solo artists the Beatles destroyed the lowly kinks with Lennon, Macarthy, Harrison and Ringo have successful careers. Having said all of this I will take the Stones all day everyday over either band. So in closing this video is nothing more than mental masturbation.
Good for you!
You can make the same argument just take out the Kinks and replace them with Floyd , the Who and yes the Stones it don’t matter
It’s The Beatles and everyone else
@@rethink62 Thanks for your insights!
The Kinks were too British for America and not the silly The Simpsons Stereotype stuff . There’s a reason why people in Europe aren’t always fond of visiting English people . They are an acquired taste
Great band though, but yes, their attitude rather their talent ruined them in the US and the US never forgave them. But , that attitude helped them be different to others and they toured the rest of the world
Great point! It’s as if America really never did forgive them. Thanks for watching! Cheers🤘
Hahahahahahah...what a joke! Yeah, it wasn't actually the Beatles that started the whole British invasion, it was the Kinks...O come now! There is more to the Beatles than Distortion. The Kinks are way too English in their sound, too insular. The Kinks had one good album and the rest contained some good songs but a lot of filler! Remember now paranoia- soul destroyer!
Thanks for this contribution.
No prob and no offence.
Also they were too English to have been huge on America
The Kinks are on another level. The subject matter is timeless. The songwriting is pure genius. They have a mind blowing range of music throughout their catalog. They never played the game. They have total integrity. Had it not been for that U.S. ban between 65-69 they would be held in the same esteem as The Beatles.
I agree, the ban really hurt them for sure. Take care and thanks for watching!
Sometimes people find things to talk about.....the Kinks were a good band but when it comes to "influence" there is no comparison when it comes to comparing them to the The Beatles. Who cares if EVH covered The Kinks, that doesn't make The Kinks more influential than The Beatles. Ray Davies would roll his eyes to hear so much analysis for his songs....Beethoven they are not....and NO EVH is not the most influential guitarist ever. Their experimentalism was NOWHERE NEAR that of The Beatles. Come on man.
Thanks for taking the time for this response. I guess my only rebuttal would be that there are a lot more bands in existence that have more in common with the Kinks than the Beatles. I'm thinking heavy guitar tones with garage rock, punk and indie rock having more in common with the Kinks than the Beatles. Take care!
@@fearlessdiymusic Fair enough!!! 🙏
I'm not sure Ray would roll his eyes - he has a pretty high opinion of himself 😁. I completely disagree with you about the influence of the Beatles v that of the Kinks. I think a lot of English people (like me) would disagree with you; those people would include Elvis Costello and David Bowie, to mention but two. At the risk of sounding patronising, this "nobody can be better/more influential than the Beatles" assumption (because that's what it is) tends to come from Americans and, I suspect, Americans who know maybe twenty of the Kinks nearly 600 songs (more if you count Ray's solo stuff). I really like this video and one of the reasons for that is that it's two American guys talking with real insight and knowledge about the Kinks and ditching any lazy preconceptions.
She Loves You vs You Really Got Me? Hmm, one seemed revolutionary and the other seemed like another Buddy Holly song. There was nothing experimental about the Beatles until Revolver.
@@theglavine The early Kink tunes are wicked but they simply don't have the same longevity and larger influence as compared to The Beatles. In 1967 The Beatles surpassed everyone, yes......even the Kinks.
First of all: the headline is misleading. As described below, you are referring to guitar-based music. That's something to discuss, although I do assume, that George Harrison inspired more guitarists with his style, than Dave Davies, who is, without doubt, a kind of original punk on the guitar. But Lennon and McCartney probably also had a greater influence as guitarists/bassists in the overall balance. In any case, more people bought instruments because of the Beatles, or created themselve a band, than because of the Kinks.
Incidentally, it isn't particularly surprising, that a track like Helter Skelter was produced by the Beatles, because long before the Kinks even came into being, the Beatles had completed a tough rock'n'roll school in dark clubs and basements and sometimes played quite punk-style Rock'n'Roll there.
The overall influence of the Beatles, as much as I like the Kinks, is simply overwhelming. They presented many different styles of music. A single song like "Tomorrow never knows" is probably more influential, than the entire Kinks catalog. Of course, something like that, is difficult to measure.
The range of instruments of modern popular culture has been expanded in the long term because of the Beatles, and I would argue, that the Kinks' concept albums wouldn't have been created without Sgt. Pepper. In general, despite various weaknesses, "Pepper" is certainly a sustainable step into, what is now known as prog rock.
With their lyrics, the Kinks, or rather Ray Davies, are perhaps even a touch more interesting (although John Lennon also has a lot to offer with his sprawling imagination),
but his specific British themes probably generate less interest in other countries, which also prevented them from being more successful in the USA, for example.
Another aspect also prevented this, because while the Beatles are "John, Paul, George and Ringo" and the Kinks are a 1 1/2-man band. Ray Davies and Dave Davies, and basically nobody knows the rest. A lack of charisma blocked the band from achieving a sustainable international breakthrough.
The Beatles' stuff is also more timeless, while the Kinks' socio-political themes are very much from the 1960s/1970s and are no longer current in this form.
A statistical aspect: while the Beatles are among the top 70 most streamed artists of the Internet generation on Spotify, the Kinks are left in the shadows between places 1500 and 1600. The Beatles are streamed ten times more than the Kinks. Based on this alone, one can assume, that even today many more people are inspired by the Beatles, than by the Kinks.
Thank you for the thoughtful response! You raise great points and I hope others do the same. Cheers🤘
I actually think you are wrong about George/Dave. I can't think, off the top of my head, of any guitarists/songs that are obviously influenced by George, but there are loads influenced by Dave's distortion and punchy (sometimes) style - apart from the covers, there are the rip-offs (Green Day did more than one). Even Pete Townsend openly admitted that "Can't Explain" was basically a copy of Dave's style and sound.
@@adolforodolfo6929 I agree with your assessment here🤘
@@adolforodolfo6929 I quote some well-known guitarists. Brian May: I hold George in such reverence, and I think he’s so underrated by the guitar community. “Everyone raves about people who play fast, but if you look at the catalog of stuff he’s produced, it’s colossal”.
Dave Grohl: "There was something about him that I almost preferred the most. I loved every single one of them for different reasons, but I kind of connected to George Harrison’s sense of melody more than anyone”.
Johnny Marr (The Smiths, The The and others): "George Harrison has always been one of my favourite guitar players,” said the dynamic guitarist. “His approach to the song and creating little parts and moments in records is more something that I can relate to, and along the lines of how I see myself, sure. Out of respect to the guitar greats who came out of the blues rock boom in the ’60s, you have to hold your hands up and show that respect.”
John Frusciante (The Red Hot Chili Peppers): One of the few guitarists whose solos I would always listen to was George Harrison,” confirmed Frusciante. “His solos were always wonderful melodies and very intelligent. He always kept the chord changes in the back of his mind and played on top of them in a very clever and tasteful fashion. Before this album (By The Way) I did have a very good look at George Harrison because I wanted to understand why he plays the way he does and what he does and how he plays around those chords.”
Joe Santiago (The Pixies): “On [Savoy Truffle], everything was descriptive and had a purpose,” claimed Santiago. “They were talking about a drill to take your teeth out… I forgot the lyrics, but the idea is too many sweets means you will need to get your teeth pulled out. So I always associated that guitar sound with a drill and I wanted that same drilly sound, which probably explains why I like playing like that.”
Steve Lukather (Toto): “He’s the reason why I play guitar. I just wanted to shake his hand, but he welcomed me over, and he was incredibly gracious”. While Harrison might have been in the biggest rock band in the world, he never lost that gentle soul."
Joe Bonamassa about "Something": he called the song “perfect” when talking about Harrison’s guitar solo on ‘Something’. Dissecting Harrison’s technique, he said: “his song composition a standard bearer at this point of other masterworks to be judged. Any part of the song could be a classic chorus in its own right”.
It is said about him: That same standard exists in Bonamassa's technique as well, with him spending over half of his life playing similar crying phrases that Harrison gets out of his guitar. Any guitar player might like to play scale runs, but Bonamassa learned how to make the guitar talk from Harrison.
Steve Morse about "Day Tripper": While the iconic guitar line was conceived by John Lennon, Morse remarks how he felt something different when Harrison played it (via Guitar World): “George’s riff pre-dated all the heavy guitar stuff like Led Zeppelin, but it sounded heavy. It really fits the definition of a heavy guitar riff”.
Other guitarists with a Harrison connection include, to name just a few: Noel Gallagher, Chris Shiftlett (The Foo Fighters), Mike Campbell (Tom Petty+the Heartbreakers), Jeff Lynne, Paul Simon, Gary Moore, Peter Frampton and also Bob Dylan, Keith Richards, Eric Clapton have elements of Harrison in their guitar style.
Personally, I rate the versatility and aesthetics of Harrison's style very highly. He wasn't a guitarist, who played solos that lasted for minutes, but many of his solos are like little songs of their own in the respective track. And one can hear that in at least a dozen different genres in the Beatles, from rock ('n'roll), pop, C&W, ballads, acid rock, to the psychedelic stuff. In the naturally debatable ranking, Rolling Stone lists George Harrison at number 31 and Dave Davies at number 164 of the greatest, best, most important guitarists. Whatever.
Thanks for this reply. It took a while to read and I'm impressed by the reaearch. Less impressed by the Rolling Stone rankings which reflect the Beatles iconic status in the US as a cultural phenomenon; they are iconic here in the UK too, but the Kinks are rated much higher here than in the US, probably because we heard much more of their music than people in the US did after their touring ban. It's also the case that the Kinks music was very English in a way that the Beatles weren't, and less accessible to a lot of US listeners.
I meant no disrespect to George. What I do think though is that Dave is a ROCK guitarist in a way that George isn't, very versatile as well, and that his sound/style has had a bigger influence on British music subsequently (a fair bit on U.S. music too)
lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol.. I didnt even have to watch the video and I was lololololololololololololololololololololololololololo
You should try watching it! The premise is a kickoff for considering different angles.
Do you realise how silly your comment makes you sound. "I don't have to watch the video, listen to the argument, to know that it's nonsense. Why not add "I don't have to listen to any Kinks songs to know that it is nonsense".
@@adolforodolfo6929 VANHALEN made the Kinks relevant . Thats about the highlight of the Kinks career .
@@js4187 No, he didn't - there is a world outside the U.S. Here in the UK, where the Kinks' influence on British rock music is widely recognised, Van Halen's cover of You Really Got Me hardly registered.
@@adolforodolfo6929 lolol The UK ? Our State of Vermont laughs at the UK let alone the rest of us . lol The UK , that in itself makes me chuckle . .. KInks widely recognized ....lolololol
Who are the Kinks?
Search for "You Really Got Me" and start there if you are curious!
good lord, are u TEN??
Say what you wish, but the Kinks were not Celluloid Heroes. The Beatles did A Hard Days Night, Help, Magical Mystery Tour,. Yellow Submarine, Let it Be. What movies did the Kinks do? None? Ray Davies just wrote a song about movies.
Well, the Beatles were a fully supported pop act that had tons of money, great management and George Martin behind them by the time the movies were made. They were a huge commodity and the Kinks never had that kind of weight behind them commercially. Thanks for this!
but he is not talking about movies at all!! the subject is MUSIC
@@davidobissonette8848 The subject is not music. Read his title. The subject is INFLUENCE and IMPORTANCE.
So a band's musical influence is measured by how many movies they made?
@@adolforodolfo6929 The premise of this post has nothing to do with music. It is about who is more influential and more important.
Lol. No.
Lol. Why no? Kind of argument you get from flat-earthers when you tell them earth is a globe. 🤣
@@adolforodolfo6929 Lol. Why a cretinous supposition? The kind of statement you get from a junior high student who doesn’t understand music history but wants to sound controversial and relevant. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@adolforodolfo6929 The earth would be flat, before the Kinks were more important than the Beatles.
@@jukesjointOG You're kind of missing the point - the video is is about their musical influence/importance with regard to posterity. It's certainly true with regard to British music in the 80s/90s,
@@adolforodolfo6929 I’m not missing the point. It’s overblown. The Kinks are influential. The Beatles moreso. It’s not a mystery.