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Because_i_am_art I had been riding the Ripmo for four days before taping this, so I wanted to do all the HD5 runs in a row (5 including the warm up runs) to make sure I was as used to it as possible. By the end of 7 non-stop runs, I was absolutely beat, so I can’t see that being any advantage for the Ripmo at all. I felt quite a bit slower in the uphill sections for the last run.
Hey man, cool to see you branching out into stuff like this. I threw a huge shout out to you and your channel in my last upload. Thanks for working so hard at this, it's inspiring to people like me. If you wanted to push the donation link in the description in any way, you'd be helping out a great cause. Just thought I'd ask. Thanks again!
I wonder if not knowing the times of all four runs until the end would have made a difference? I assume that you already knew the runs would be sub 3 minutes before the start? Great vid and looks like a great park 👍👍🇬🇧
I just rebuilt my 2007 norco bigfoot (26er) with modern parts and it can run circles around my entry level 29er xc in the bush. The overall reduction in flex is enough to inspire confidence and gain speed. You are the reason I'm proud of my bigfoot!
Sorry if I missed something..but you did two runs starting with the 27.5, then two runs with the 29er. Not to question your testing methods, but it just seemed you were getting faster each run...I would have take the 27.5 out for one more run to see what your time was as you get familiar with your lines.
@@thebigmack5035 Yeah, I know. But I'm saying that familiarity with the trail is going to be balanced with being tired at the end, so it's probably a wash.
No, this is as asinine as the way it was originally set. You get multiple riders to do 3+ runs each size, AT RANDOM. And then you do a statistical model to determine effect size
This debate is like the manual vs. automatic debate for car guys. Most people accept the 29er/auto is gonna be faster, but the 27.5/manual is a hell of a lot more fun.
@@compassionatepatriot242 Pleas don't compare an auto transmission on a Yaris to manual. Try those new dual-clutch automatic transmissions. They switch gear in a split of a second. No human can match.
great video, I always enjoy watching people do tests on 27.5 and 29s. I own two bikes one with 27.5 and one with 29. I have ridden my 27.5 for four years and absolutely loved riding them. That said I now ride a 29er and find it rides really great to. Have to get used to sitting a little taller but it is so much fun. I have found that no matter what bike you ride or size of wheel over time you get used to it and start riding faster and with more confidence. Its all fun :)
Agreed! Although I have found that with these new extra long/XL 29er bikes that I still feel very ‘in the bike’ and not overtop like previous 29ers did.
For me it’s all about fun! I have a 6” travel bike with a flip chip and a set of 27.5+ as well as a set of 29er wheels. I like them both for different reasons, I prefer the 27.5+ because they are more fun and more comfortable...but if course I am not racing.
Would be interesting to see if you rode the 29 first vs. 27.5. I think in a lot of these tests the mental component isn't considered such as your own sub conscious expectations of the results, the fact that you're going to get faster as you ride that trail more throughout the day from memory standpoint, and also in a tighter turning trail what would the results be. Great video by the way as always though.
I think it would have been more accurate if you would have alternated between the bikes. I think part of the reason the latter runs were better was you were picking better lines and more comfortable with the track each time. Even if it was subconsciously happening with your riding. That being said there’s a reason all the pro DH guys are on 29ers. Cool video!!!!
4 роки тому+9
Except that atleast last year, 2019, some of the top riders in the world cup were not. Several of the top guys ran mullets. Loic Bruni, world champ, ran a mullet, among others.
Mondraker made Danny Hart a 29'er back in the day, he didn't like it and was way slower on it (he is a shorter rider). switched back to his 27.5 and results went back up. I'm pretty sure he is riding a Mullet now.
It really depends on the trail. Do a similar test on a tight technical trail that has technical climbs as well. This trail would definitely favour a 29er given its not very technical nor twisty.
29er or 27.5 on tight singletrack switchbacks no problem for riders who can endo turn.. My conclusion both wheelsize is fast just use better techniques
The results are exactly what I expected and fall exactly inline with dozens of other similar test. You did a great job of isolating variables in choosing very similar bikes. The most impressive thing for me is that you did the fastest run of the day on your very last ride down after a very physical effort. I would tend to attribute this to more confidence in the grip of the larger wheels as well as the smoother ride being a huge advantage when fatigued.
How did he do a good job isolating variables? 🤣 Only 2 runs on each bike, one of 4 runs was totally invalid and there was no bike switching that could dismiss getting more familiar with the trail.
Nicely done - However, the thing that’s always missing from these comparison tests is rider size, now ask someone under 5’ 5” on an already geometry compromised S/XS size 27.5er if they think 29ers are faster ;)
Nice work! Can't say I'm surprised with the results... having owned multiple bikes in both wheels sizes I definitely like how 29er carry momentum and rolls over stuff, but I also like how quick on its feet 27.5 feels.
Agree 100%. I had the V1 Ripmo and it was a great bike but I replaced it with the HD5. No comparison on the "fun factor" going down thru tight, tech terrain. HD5 wins all day long.
Fast is fun, but you can go fast on just about any size wheel. I don't care about fractional seconds because I'm not an enduro rider, and certainly not riding at a level where fractions of seconds count. I want something that I can have fun on when ripping down a trail with friends, and for that 27.5 is king. Preferably on a mid travel, hardcore trail bike. Sure I've ridden a few 29ers that were fun, but that was because they were on high speed flow trails, that are equally fun on a 27.5.
I’ve ridden a giant reign 3 with 26 inch wheels for the last 10 years. It was upgraded with a fox rc2 36 fork along with rims,cranks,brakes,yadayadayada... and switched to a mondraker foxyrr 29ner last fall. Holy hell, this bike changed the way I ride because I no longer have to choose the perfect line for uphill climbs or downhill rock gardens. I’m not sure if my riding style would allow me to ride anything besides a 29er. Awesome video, keep up the goodness. Your GoPro videos have helped me a lot as well, thanks!
My main takeaway was yes the 29 was faster but looked a bit more of a wild ride in comparison to the 27.5. I’m older and more of a casual rider. No mountain bike. Just two beach cruisers and a Throne Goon. But I enjoy thinking about my own different tire sizes. 26 and 29. I’ve always wondered about this. So it was interesting. Thanks.
I think this test might have been more interesting on a much more technical trail. Might be mistaken, but this is where a 29er must truly shine! Good video, would love to see a Mullet comparision.
There can be some tricky parts to a hand job but with a fair bit of huffing and puffing plus another guy leading you out generally the end result is favourable.
Great comparo! Not surprising that the 29er is faster down flow trails. Would be nice to run both of them down some of the tech trails at Whistler once it's open to see how that plays out.
Nice test. Good trails selection. Good bike selection. As a 27.5 rider that’s about what I expected. I was a forest ecologist researcher in one of my past careers and did many statistical studies. To make this totally legitimate you’d need about 25 riders (sample size) and need to randomize such things as which bike each rider chose first. No one is going to do that of course and I’d be willing to bet the results would be close to your 1-man test. Nice job. Thx.
Hey Ryan. I wonder if riding the 27.5 first was like a practice warm up run kinda giving the advantage to the 29er. What about staggering/alternating wheel sizes between runs. Also, I thing statistically larger sample sizes/more runs will bear out more valid results. I believe 29ers are generally a bit faster, but time difference gaps will narrow on tight switch back terrain.
This pleases me because I’m riding 27.5 and my buddies 29 and I’m keeping up lol. Could also be they’re slowing down for me because they definitely pull away in some sections
A shame that it's a totally wasted effort though. With how it was done, you cannot really say one is faster than the other, we all know from other tests that 29 is indeed a bit faster, but the one done here is totally invalid.
Hey LoamRanger, great video and great content. However, same constructive feed back like some other people. When doing the comparison maybe do switch the bikes after each lap. One thing that I noticed as per 00:36 into the first run of HD5, your said that you were going to take the same line but when you jumped on the 29er you were doing the upper line on that section. No big deal but something to keep an eye on the future videos. Otherwise, very enjoyable material. I can’t wait until you do a review on the new Zipp 3ZeroMoto wheels. Curious to hear if they are too flexible when climbing up hill, what do you think of the ankle compliance? if they are too heavy in comparison to other 1800gr carbon wheels options? Did you by the complete Wheelset or did you custom build them like BKXC, he picked Onyx hubs. Awesome work once again!!!
I would maybe alternate with your runs. For me, I get better as the day goes on...to an extent. So maybe data was skewed by you becoming more familiar with the trail. Start on 29 next time on a different trail and see if that replicates similar results as this time. Then you'll know you need to vary the way you test the bikes.
I have a 27.5 now that I upgraded to a FS bike, and I miss my 29er's ability to run over obstacles and the speed they carry. Next bike purchase will definitely be a 29er!
The problem with using humans as a testing ground is that there’s a natural bell curve that our performance will follow every time typically you get faster and faster until fatigue sets in and then the performance starts to taper off so it depends where each bike wheel size fits. I think you did what you could to keep it “scientific” as possible given the human element. Thanks for the video. I have a switchblade by pivot which can run both wheels I currently run it as a 29 but would be curious to see how it ran as a 27.5 given that it’s the exact same bike it does make the geometry more slack though
For seriously steep technical trails a mullet bike is the way to go. The 29" front rolls over everything while the 27.5 in back gives you room to get your center of gravity lower without buzzing your butt on the tire.
Good stuff man! As far as what else... something chunky and difficult would be cool to see in a test. Something that cant be blasted through quite so easily. A trail that benefits the 27.5 re: rear tire ass rub
I am a 29er fan. I am 6'2 and ride an extra large bike. I am not into tricks and flicks but prefer more flowing trails. I am also big on looks where the bike is concerned and 29ers look great on that size frame, not to mention the tyres are 2.6" back and front. It's good to know that they roll faster which makes sense. It's pretty much like a flywheel in a race car where a light flywheel spins up faster but also the rpm drops faster too, whereas a heavy flywheel keeps spinning and is more resistant to deceleration.
The test you did was great. I'm looking at getting into mountain biking and general use ridding. I'm short so that does play into it a lot for me. I'll just have to demo bikes with both to figure out which i like more.
Considering your knowledge gain and a very smooth and 29er favoring track, 5 seconds is not much... For Pro Racers, they might test both against each other and take the one with 1 sec faster runs, but for us normal bikers, it is not really important... It´s very preference based imo, you could compare it to iOS vs Android, both have pros and cons and both fit a certain type of user better. But there is no general answer on which is better.
Good video, even though I was expecting these results. I got a 29 and a 27.5 myself, for me the 27.5 is way more fun in the mountains and techy trails. The 29 feels too fast and to high in those cases. But in cross country and light trails it's way better because you travel more distance with less effort. I guess it will always be a matter of taste
Almost* like my local trails, eh, half as hard... we have lots of pedaling. lots... All are loops, no DH runs. 1100ft elevation change over 7 miles. Pedal a bit, descend a bit, pedal a bit etc. Sucks man, can't wait to experience a lift access bike park or to find a good real mountain to SOS!! Love your videos guys! Keep em coming!
Did the toilet paper tires have the same air pressure....because if not, that will affect the experiment for sure?? lol...just kidding...that was a great visual reference to help folks see the difference.
One factor I don’t think I heard mentioned was height. For an average height rider, the pros and cons you listed make perfect sense. They apply for taller and shorter than average riders as well, but comfort and even safety can factor in. I’m a taller than average rider and have always run 29” for as long as it has been an option because it fits me better. I feel more centered and “in” my cockpit vs “on” my cockpit if that makes sense. For a lot of frame geometries, a 29er frame will actually drop the bottom bracket below the axle line helping to offset the higher riding position coming simply from having longer legs. Strangely, I’m much more agile on a 29er than I am a 650b.
There were so many household items you could’ve chosen to use for your example. I love that you chose the paper we use to wipe our asses to demonstrate this.
Its just a faff. I still use squirrel skins. They are comfortable, reusable and sustainable. Everything people scream for these days. And they dont get hoarded in the supermarket
Don't be hard too on yourself. You're better than an average rider. e.g. take some of those tourists in your video. You're always going to get those that like to hang out and chat, in the middle of the trail. Where I'm from people have gotten out of the habit of calling it when they are on a run, with some interesting results. Your calling is good, nice work.
Danny Hart and Loic Bruni set savage times on mullet bikes. If time was the concern, the mullet bike is almost certainly the winner. And this is in its infancy as people slowly adopt it (UCI didnt even allow it at first). If I was racing I would want to go for mullet, a roomy 27.5 frame with a 29 wheel/fork up front. But for actual average riding (aka fun) its still 27.5 for me. XC is 29ers, DJing is 26ers. The idea of mullet is cool because you can get "TWO" bikes in one by buying a 29 wheel/fork. One for jumping/fun and one for even the hardest of racing.
To make this more balanced for normal riders pick a non-park trail with a decent climb and a decent descent. Do the test in two days: ride the 27.5 first one day and the 29er first one day. This will help remove confounding variables in testing.
I'm overbiked on a 140mm 27.5 bike. I think I'm more of an XC / light trail rider. Longer rides with some trails, I am not a daredevil. Anyone made the switch from 27.5 trail/all mountain bike to a short/mid travel 29er? How'd you find it?
I have a comment and a question. First, comment...SO jealous that you have trails dry enough to ride! Our weeks have been 4-5 days rain and 2-3 days sun, so I feel like they won't be dry until July! Next, question...how are you allowed to be around people? Aren't you guys on required isolation like the rest of the world? Again...jealous. Love the vids.
We caught a lucky break while we we out there! No rain the whole time. For your question: we filmed this over a month ago, before there was any real concern in North America.
just ordered the HD5 XTR build with Factory shocks and Ibis carbon wheels (not ENVE), Ibis is having a sale on those 5,300USD. I was eyeing the Ripmo but it is on back order till October and no discount, so the decision was easy.
Makes sense. Which one was more fun? When I rode an HD4 and Ripmo a couple years ago, I looked at my GPS data. Higher top speed on the Ripmo, but higher average speed on the HD4. I carried my speed better on the HD4 through the turns. Both good bikes, though.
Attack angle will be greater than a standard 27.5 due to the larger diameter. I think a 3.0 will be close to a 29 2.2. I like 27.5 plus on hardtails due to it making the ride less harsh and the weight you add with bigger tires is somewhat negated by the lack of rear suspension.
I think after watching a few of these 27.5 vs 29 I'm gonna go with a mullet Commencal Meta SX to split the difference with a 29 on the front for better stability and roll over and the 27.5 in the rear for easier climbing and quicker handling
When buying the 2019 Norco Sight on Black friday clearance a few months ago, i had a choice between the 29er and 27.5 for exact same price, same spec etc.....I chose the 27.5 because i'm still a bit on the noob-ish side and the faster/tighter handling I felt might result in less crashes/wipeouts and maybe a bit better grin factor, (and maybe slightly lighter weight to make the climbs easier?) Screw the stopwatch, i ride purely for fun and fitness, not racing.
I have a 29+ hardtail and a 27,5 full sus. Both feel amazing. The only reason why I'm going to look for a 29 fs for my next bike is the elevated bb, since the terrain here is so rooty and rocky, I can't stand the pedal strikes when trail riding on my full sus. I would like to choose my bike based off how I'm feeling, not be forced to go with the hardtail everytime I'm not riding downhill.
Here in the northeast with lots of roots and rocks I felt like even if the 29er rolled better over obstacles I still lost too much momentum too often and it was harder to get up to speed again. Plus a 5'8" I liked the in bike feeling and acceleration of my 27.5 better.
My 10 cents...Choose the tool depending on the job on hand. Racing: If this was a seriously tight and twisty track 27.5. Long berms, rutted with bomb holes and roots 29er. Totally agree for for experienced recreational riders not racing and looking for Pure Fun: 27.5. That said I would always recommend a 29er for new bikers as it reducers the chance of accidents unless you fall under 5.5 feet. Unfortunately I suffer from wantitall biking syndrome and prefer the garage lined with 26er jump bike, 27.5/26 jump bike, 27.5 and 29ers. Throw in BMX, trail bike and stunt scooters and anything else that comes along lol
Very good test, but I'm not a racer and time is not much important for me. More than time is a pleasure and fun of riding bikes. For now I love hardtails because I found a joy of riding bikes again. After many years of riding full suspension I feel bored of riding, but now I got fun again and I'm on 27,5 steel hardtail 😉
Not too surprised on your results but for those with 1 bike to cover a variety of terrain, 27.5x3" on rear is better for climbing and mud, sand etc. As an old dirt bike guy there has to be something to the tall skinny up front, small fatty at rear.
There is a reason pretty much noone uses large tires anymore, since the novelty wore off, you still need to run high pressure if you want to have any stability on high impacts, and then there is an issue of the tire rebounding really fast, for casual riding large volume tires are great though, low pressure, lots of comfort and traction at the same time.
which is faster is only relevant to people who race and sad middle aged men who obsess over Strava. which is most fun and you enjoy riding day to day is the question, oh and not in bike parks but in real world trails.
I would test more runs, on different trails. No reason it couldn't span over several days too. I would also try to make sure I was equally tired, meaning alternating between the bike if possible.
Imo doing a few runs on each instead of altering is better, as you have time to get used to the different handling, for sure needs more than 2 runs on each overall though, and what's the point of even including an invalid run in the counting?
I'm not a professional...anything, but I really like my HD5. Really well designed bike and very fun to ride. Not that it applies to anyone out there, but helped with riding pain with my rheumatoid arthritis.
I'm a new sub but my big question would be, what are you riding most often? If you are riding a 29er most often then I would assume that you would be faster with a 29er and the same with 27.5. I would have liked to see this same test on separate days or even a 27.5, 29, 27.5, 29 flip-flop. Even if this was a run that you are use to, you are always going to be faster by run 4 vs run 1, regardless of the tire size and bike. Either way, great videos! Being from AZ I love the Sedona content. Personally, I've been riding since I was 16 (38 now), going from a 26 to 27.5 to 29 back 27.5. I absolutely hate 29er. This is just me though. I'm guessing that about he time I picked up the 29er I was the old dog and new tricks just weren't in the cards. I'm back in the seat of my Trek Remedy 8 and loving every minute of it. No matter what, just get out and ride!
I think it would be interesting if you did the test on something like a Firebird where you can run 27.5 or 29s on the exact same bike. I know you said the components were the same but frame geometry does vary between the two in this test.
Many years ago I did the same switch from 26 to 29 hardtail and I loved it. Felt like a monster truck on the trail. I've moved to a 27.5 full suss and actually prefer the feel of the 29. Either way have fun!
I made the same switch couple years ago from an old freeride 26" bike to a trail 29" and was definitely weird getting used to it initially haha. The bars were the biggest change personally though tbh was like 650 to 780 lol
Hey. I'm a short size beginner rider 5'2 with big 29ers which I seem can't to hit aggressive turns would you recommend down sizing 27.5 for turning at a faster pace?
My 29er dv9 has crushed 99% of my 2 yrs worth of PRs set on my 275 HD4 on exact xc/trail segments. BUT I wouldn't dare take the DV9 on black/double black dh/tech runs at tiger mtn or raging river! Good to have both but if just one...id take the Ripmo V2, maybe next year. lol
Yes but one major mistake in the toilet paper example is the difference between two rolls. It’s like comparing a 24’’ with a 50’’ wheel. The effect is exaggerated, in reality the difference is not so big. And of course it’s better to have a 27,5 with 180 mm front travel whereas a 29er with 160mm..... more absorption comes with more travel that wheel size cannot compensate. However numbers are numbers in the end. Very nice video
what I wold like to see is the test include the 29er with 27.5 wider tires. I have a Titus RacerX 29er and I had a extra set of 27.5 rims so I added 2.6 27.5 tires to the rims and they are the same overall diameter as the 2.3 29er ones but much more meat, I like the feel of the bike way more. Was it faster as a 29er, maybe but I much prefer the ride this way.
I hope you enjoyed the vid! Don't forget that we've got our full beginner photography/videography course up for our Patreon supporters. For as little as $5 you'll have lifetime access to the entire course that'll help you take pro quality photos and videos with any camera in any situation. Check it out here: patreon.com/theloamranger
oval chains rings next?
Because_i_am_art I had been riding the Ripmo for four days before taping this, so I wanted to do all the HD5 runs in a row (5 including the warm up runs) to make sure I was as used to it as possible. By the end of 7 non-stop runs, I was absolutely beat, so I can’t see that being any advantage for the Ripmo at all. I felt quite a bit slower in the uphill sections for the last run.
Seems like you should have done a last run on the 27.5 ... you know just to confirm everything
Hey man, cool to see you branching out into stuff like this. I threw a huge shout out to you and your channel in my last upload. Thanks for working so hard at this, it's inspiring to people like me.
If you wanted to push the donation link in the description in any way, you'd be helping out a great cause. Just thought I'd ask.
Thanks again!
I wonder if not knowing the times of all four runs until the end would have made a difference? I assume that you already knew the runs would be sub 3 minutes before the start? Great vid and looks like a great park 👍👍🇬🇧
26" aint dead
Jordan Boostmaster everyone is gangster until the 26” shows up
Teeeammm 26´´
sorry bud but 26ers are dead, i preordered my 36 in with 14 inches of travel.
I just rebuilt my 2007 norco bigfoot (26er) with modern parts and it can run circles around my entry level 29er xc in the bush. The overall reduction in flex is enough to inspire confidence and gain speed. You are the reason I'm proud of my bigfoot!
frrr freeride will never die!!
Sorry if I missed something..but you did two runs starting with the 27.5, then two runs with the 29er. Not to question your testing methods, but it just seemed you were getting faster each run...I would have take the 27.5 out for one more run to see what your time was as you get familiar with your lines.
@@High_Octane 100% agree
Ya i agree, I would have staggered them, I find myself needing to warm up to get my fastest
Ya exactly and do more variety of trails
That's exactly what I was thinking.
Yeah this guy!!
You should have done at least 3 laps on each alternating bikes
Slightly unfair.. Should have done 27.5, then 29, then 29, then 27.5. So as to negate familiarity/confidence in the trail.
Yeah, but he would've been more tired by the last run.
@@VincentJGoh but his last run was his best lol
@@thebigmack5035 Yeah, I know. But I'm saying that familiarity with the trail is going to be balanced with being tired at the end, so it's probably a wash.
@@VincentJGoh folks really get tired on these medium down hill runs with 30 mins rest between?
No, this is as asinine as the way it was originally set. You get multiple riders to do 3+ runs each size, AT RANDOM. And then you do a statistical model to determine effect size
This debate is like the manual vs. automatic debate for car guys. Most people accept the 29er/auto is gonna be faster, but the 27.5/manual is a hell of a lot more fun.
Great comparison. So true, rowing through the years of a manual trans is always more fun.
You nailed it with your comparison! I will remember that :D
Sorry did not nail manual is way faster than auto in cars so would have to be other way around to fit your argument
Manual both faster and more fun 😂
@@compassionatepatriot242 Pleas don't compare an auto transmission on a Yaris to manual. Try those new dual-clutch automatic transmissions. They switch gear in a split of a second. No human can match.
What about a mullet:)
Rémy Métailler ah yes. The best type of bike
I convert my 29er to a mullet for shuttle and park and love it!
I ride an eMTB mullet. Never ridden anything better...
Ya that’s the new trend 👍
Hardtail mullet, too? For example, 27.5x3.0 rear and 29x2.6 front?
great video, I always enjoy watching people do tests on 27.5 and 29s. I own two bikes one with 27.5 and one with 29. I have ridden my 27.5 for four years and absolutely loved riding them. That said I now ride a 29er and find it rides really great to. Have to get used to sitting a little taller but it is so much fun. I have found that no matter what bike you ride or size of wheel over time you get used to it and start riding faster and with more confidence. Its all fun :)
Agreed! Although I have found that with these new extra long/XL 29er bikes that I still feel very ‘in the bike’ and not overtop like previous 29ers did.
Let’s just go to 28.25” already. Best of both worlds.
Bingo
Lol!
Seriously! Why have the debate. Just cut it in the middle.
..or Mullet! That’s how you get the benefits of both with no compromise
Can I just install a 29" tire onto my 27.5 wheel? Can someone whip up a how-to video for me?
It would be fun to see beth do the same video seeing how it affects shorter people!
When approaching other intruders on MY trail I merely scream, “STRAVAAAAAAA!!!” and problem solved 😁 You’re welcome
Can confirm you either get flipped off or they leap out of your way :)
Or just say: "Excuse me, I'm sick..."
@@goneflying140 cough in their general direction 😂😂😂😂😂
For me it’s all about fun! I have a 6” travel bike with a flip chip and a set of 27.5+ as well as a set of 29er wheels. I like them both for different reasons, I prefer the 27.5+ because they are more fun and more comfortable...but if course I am not racing.
Hightower?
Dude, finally simple test, almost same bikes! Two runs! Nice short Video with not much talking ! Perfect 👍! I enjoy it!
Would be interesting to see if you rode the 29 first vs. 27.5. I think in a lot of these tests the mental component isn't considered such as your own sub conscious expectations of the results, the fact that you're going to get faster as you ride that trail more throughout the day from memory standpoint, and also in a tighter turning trail what would the results be. Great video by the way as always though.
I think it would have been more accurate if you would have alternated between the bikes. I think part of the reason the latter runs were better was you were picking better lines and more comfortable with the track each time. Even if it was subconsciously happening with your riding. That being said there’s a reason all the pro DH guys are on 29ers. Cool video!!!!
Except that atleast last year, 2019, some of the top riders in the world cup were not. Several of the top guys ran mullets. Loic Bruni, world champ, ran a mullet, among others.
Mondraker made Danny Hart a 29'er back in the day, he didn't like it and was way slower on it (he is a shorter rider). switched back to his 27.5 and results went back up. I'm pretty sure he is riding a Mullet now.
It really depends on the trail. Do a similar test on a tight technical trail that has technical climbs as well. This trail would definitely favour a 29er given its not very technical nor twisty.
My thoughts exactly. Trail determines results.
29er tends to do better on tech climbs too due to getting over rocks better. 27.5 handles switchbacks better and might feel a bit more playful.
@@mrvwbug4423 True 29 rolls over stuff better. But it could be slower due to the heavier weight and higher front end.
Completely agree
29er or 27.5 on tight singletrack switchbacks no problem for riders who can endo turn.. My conclusion both wheelsize is fast just use better techniques
The results are exactly what I expected and fall exactly inline with dozens of other similar test. You did a great job of isolating variables in choosing very similar bikes. The most impressive thing for me is that you did the fastest run of the day on your very last ride down after a very physical effort. I would tend to attribute this to more confidence in the grip of the larger wheels as well as the smoother ride being a huge advantage when fatigued.
How did he do a good job isolating variables? 🤣 Only 2 runs on each bike, one of 4 runs was totally invalid and there was no bike switching that could dismiss getting more familiar with the trail.
@@piciu256 read my comment before making your own. I was referring to the bikes not the runs.
@@paulwintermute1495 I was referring to the test overall.
@@paulwintermute1495 and you did refer to the runs lol
Nicely done - However, the thing that’s always missing from these comparison tests is rider size, now ask someone under 5’ 5” on an already geometry compromised S/XS size 27.5er if they think 29ers are faster ;)
Nice work! Can't say I'm surprised with the results... having owned multiple bikes in both wheels sizes I definitely like how 29er carry momentum and rolls over stuff, but I also like how quick on its feet 27.5 feels.
Also, the big roll of toilet paper has more compliance, being softer. So that also helps over technical jangy stuff.
Which is more fun though? Speed isn't always the most fun. Though I suspect the answer to that is highly dependent on what one considers "fun"
Agree 100%. I had the V1 Ripmo and it was a great bike but I replaced it with the HD5. No comparison on the "fun factor" going down thru tight, tech terrain. HD5 wins all day long.
There is a lot of UA-cam mountain bikers that do no hill climbing it seems and just ride down hills.
i prefer to slowly enjoy the track and environment
@@igormarinkovic1531 *WHAT THE F#@K?!?!?* You mean you like to *mountain bike RIDE,* not *RACE?* - Dude, what's *wrong* with you!?!? lol 😉
Fast is fun, but you can go fast on just about any size wheel.
I don't care about fractional seconds because I'm not an enduro rider, and certainly not riding at a level where fractions of seconds count.
I want something that I can have fun on when ripping down a trail with friends, and for that 27.5 is king. Preferably on a mid travel, hardcore trail bike.
Sure I've ridden a few 29ers that were fun, but that was because they were on high speed flow trails, that are equally fun on a 27.5.
I’ve ridden a giant reign 3 with 26 inch wheels for the last 10 years. It was upgraded with a fox rc2 36 fork along with rims,cranks,brakes,yadayadayada... and switched to a mondraker foxyrr 29ner last fall. Holy hell, this bike changed the way I ride because I no longer have to choose the perfect line for uphill climbs or downhill rock gardens. I’m not sure if my riding style would allow me to ride anything besides a 29er. Awesome video, keep up the goodness. Your GoPro videos have helped me a lot as well, thanks!
How much for that roll of TP?
ok, you made me laugh, good one, lol
worth more than the ibis
More than you can afford, Ferrari... ...
My main takeaway was yes the 29 was faster but looked a bit more of a wild ride in comparison to the 27.5.
I’m older and more of a casual rider. No mountain bike. Just two beach cruisers and a Throne Goon. But I enjoy thinking about my own different tire sizes. 26 and 29. I’ve always wondered about this. So it was interesting. Thanks.
I think this test might have been more interesting on a much more technical trail. Might be mistaken, but this is where a 29er must truly shine! Good video, would love to see a Mullet comparision.
I love the concept.
There can be some tricky parts to a hand job but with a fair bit of huffing and puffing plus another guy leading you out generally the end result is favourable.
Yeah that hand job looked a little rough but all in all a good time.
Great comparo! Not surprising that the 29er is faster down flow trails. Would be nice to run both of them down some of the tech trails at Whistler once it's open to see how that plays out.
Nice test. Good trails selection. Good bike selection. As a 27.5 rider that’s about what I expected. I was a forest ecologist researcher in one of my past careers and did many statistical studies. To make this totally legitimate you’d need about 25 riders (sample size) and need to randomize such things as which bike each rider chose first. No one is going to do that of course and I’d be willing to bet the results would be close to your 1-man test. Nice job. Thx.
Hey Ryan. I wonder if riding the 27.5 first was like a practice warm up run kinda giving the advantage to the 29er. What about staggering/alternating wheel sizes between runs. Also, I thing statistically larger sample sizes/more runs will bear out more valid results. I believe 29ers are generally a bit faster, but time difference gaps will narrow on tight switch back terrain.
Definitely, the way it was done here is totally inconclusive.
This pleases me because I’m riding 27.5 and my buddies 29 and I’m keeping up lol. Could also be they’re slowing down for me because they definitely pull away in some sections
Always put out great content man! Keep them comin'
Yay! Another video about 27.5 vs 29! I love these kinds of vids!
Me too
A shame that it's a totally wasted effort though. With how it was done, you cannot really say one is faster than the other, we all know from other tests that 29 is indeed a bit faster, but the one done here is totally invalid.
Hey LoamRanger, great video and great content. However, same constructive feed back like some other people. When doing the comparison maybe do switch the bikes after each lap. One thing that I noticed as per 00:36 into the first run of HD5, your said that you were going to take the same line but when you jumped on the 29er you were doing the upper line on that section. No big deal but something to keep an eye on the future videos. Otherwise, very enjoyable material. I can’t wait until you do a review on the new Zipp 3ZeroMoto wheels. Curious to hear if they are too flexible when climbing up hill, what do you think of the ankle compliance? if they are too heavy in comparison to other 1800gr carbon wheels options? Did you by the complete Wheelset or did you custom build them like BKXC, he picked Onyx hubs. Awesome work once again!!!
Good video. If I were racing I would get a 29-er. Until then I'm having a blast on my 27.5 bike.
- other people buying toilet paper during quarantine...
- 5:03 these kinda people buying toilet paper during quarantine 😂
I would maybe alternate with your runs. For me, I get better as the day goes on...to an extent. So maybe data was skewed by you becoming more familiar with the trail. Start on 29 next time on a different trail and see if that replicates similar results as this time. Then you'll know you need to vary the way you test the bikes.
Cool video. Man this IBIS bikes look soooo cool!!!!
Take her easy! All the head talk you do is exactly what I say to myself but as I say those things I never lay on the brakes! haha
I have a 27.5 now that I upgraded to a FS bike, and I miss my 29er's ability to run over obstacles and the speed they carry. Next bike purchase will definitely be a 29er!
The problem with using humans as a testing ground is that there’s a natural bell curve that our performance will follow every time typically you get faster and faster until fatigue sets in and then the performance starts to taper off so it depends where each bike wheel size fits. I think you did what you could to keep it “scientific” as possible given the human element. Thanks for the video.
I have a switchblade by pivot which can run both wheels I currently run it as a 29 but would be curious to see how it ran as a 27.5 given that it’s the exact same bike it does make the geometry more slack though
For seriously steep technical trails a mullet bike is the way to go. The 29" front rolls over everything while the 27.5 in back gives you room to get your center of gravity lower without buzzing your butt on the tire.
Great video, beautiful bikes!
Thanks!
Good stuff man! As far as what else... something chunky and difficult would be cool to see in a test. Something that cant be blasted through quite so easily. A trail that benefits the 27.5 re: rear tire ass rub
I am a 29er fan. I am 6'2 and ride an extra large bike. I am not into tricks and flicks but prefer more flowing trails. I am also big on looks where the bike is concerned and 29ers look great on that size frame, not to mention the tyres are 2.6" back and front. It's good to know that they roll faster which makes sense. It's pretty much like a flywheel in a race car where a light flywheel spins up faster but also the rpm drops faster too, whereas a heavy flywheel keeps spinning and is more resistant to deceleration.
The test you did was great. I'm looking at getting into mountain biking and general use ridding. I'm short so that does play into it a lot for me. I'll just have to demo bikes with both to figure out which i like more.
that hand job looks like fun, cant wait to try it.
Considering your knowledge gain and a very smooth and 29er favoring track, 5 seconds is not much... For Pro Racers, they might test both against each other and take the one with 1 sec faster runs, but for us normal bikers, it is not really important... It´s very preference based imo, you could compare it to iOS vs Android, both have pros and cons and both fit a certain type of user better. But there is no general answer on which is better.
I went from 29 to 27.5, I love to hit jumps and the 27.5 is so much easier in the air imo
Oh yeah? It feels better to you?
@@keithpalacios11 Yeah, I went from a trek fuel ex 8 29 to a YT Jeffsy 27.5. The YT fits my style and personality to a T
Good video, even though I was expecting these results. I got a 29 and a 27.5 myself, for me the 27.5 is way more fun in the mountains and techy trails. The 29 feels too fast and to high in those cases. But in cross country and light trails it's way better because you travel more distance with less effort.
I guess it will always be a matter of taste
I feel very similar...sold my Ripmo to get the HD5. I also have an Intense Primer 29er.
Almost* like my local trails, eh, half as hard... we have lots of pedaling.
lots...
All are loops, no DH runs. 1100ft elevation change over 7 miles.
Pedal a bit, descend a bit, pedal a bit etc.
Sucks man, can't wait to experience a lift access bike park or to find a good real mountain to SOS!!
Love your videos guys!
Keep em coming!
Did the toilet paper tires have the same air pressure....because if not, that will affect the experiment for sure?? lol...just kidding...that was a great visual reference to help folks see the difference.
One factor I don’t think I heard mentioned was height. For an average height rider, the pros and cons you listed make perfect sense. They apply for taller and shorter than average riders as well, but comfort and even safety can factor in. I’m a taller than average rider and have always run 29” for as long as it has been an option because it fits me better. I feel more centered and “in” my cockpit vs “on” my cockpit if that makes sense. For a lot of frame geometries, a 29er frame will actually drop the bottom bracket below the axle line helping to offset the higher riding position coming simply from having longer legs. Strangely, I’m much more agile on a 29er than I am a 650b.
There were so many household items you could’ve chosen to use for your example. I love that you chose the paper we use to wipe our asses to demonstrate this.
Its just a faff. I still use squirrel skins. They are comfortable, reusable and sustainable. Everything people scream for these days. And they dont get hoarded in the supermarket
That was cool. Thanks for the video
Don't be hard too on yourself. You're better than an average rider. e.g. take some of those tourists in your video. You're always going to get those that like to hang out and chat, in the middle of the trail. Where I'm from people have gotten out of the habit of calling it when they are on a run, with some interesting results. Your calling is good, nice work.
Love your channel! And really love the fact you are Ibis sponsored, I ride a Ripley V4 and love it
Danny Hart and Loic Bruni set savage times on mullet bikes. If time was the concern, the mullet bike is almost certainly the winner. And this is in its infancy as people slowly adopt it (UCI didnt even allow it at first). If I was racing I would want to go for mullet, a roomy 27.5 frame with a 29 wheel/fork up front. But for actual average riding (aka fun) its still 27.5 for me. XC is 29ers, DJing is 26ers.
The idea of mullet is cool because you can get "TWO" bikes in one by buying a 29 wheel/fork. One for jumping/fun and one for even the hardest of racing.
Awesome! Great input 🙏🏻🍻
To make this more balanced for normal riders pick a non-park trail with a decent climb and a decent descent. Do the test in two days: ride the 27.5 first one day and the 29er first one day. This will help remove confounding variables in testing.
I'm overbiked on a 140mm 27.5 bike. I think I'm more of an XC / light trail rider. Longer rides with some trails, I am not a daredevil.
Anyone made the switch from 27.5 trail/all mountain bike to a short/mid travel 29er? How'd you find it?
Would like to see you do this with a HD5 as a Mullet (29r wheel up front).
instead of doing 2 runs with 27.5 and then 2 with 29, I would have switched off every time. But still a great video.
I have a comment and a question. First, comment...SO jealous that you have trails dry enough to ride! Our weeks have been 4-5 days rain and 2-3 days sun, so I feel like they won't be dry until July! Next, question...how are you allowed to be around people? Aren't you guys on required isolation like the rest of the world? Again...jealous. Love the vids.
We caught a lucky break while we we out there! No rain the whole time.
For your question: we filmed this over a month ago, before there was any real concern in North America.
27:5 looks better on a frame than 29. That's my reason!
Makes sense to me!
Yeah i think 27.5 looks cooler
*I agree too*
just ordered the HD5 XTR build with Factory shocks and Ibis carbon wheels (not ENVE), Ibis is having a sale on those 5,300USD. I was eyeing the Ripmo but it is on back order till October and no discount, so the decision was easy.
Makes sense. Which one was more fun? When I rode an HD4 and Ripmo a couple years ago, I looked at my GPS data. Higher top speed on the Ripmo, but higher average speed on the HD4. I carried my speed better on the HD4 through the turns. Both good bikes, though.
Ah that’s interesting! The fastest average time is what wins races, so hey.
I would have liked to see you ride some uphill tech stuff to see if the wheel diameter on obstacles makes a difference.
on the attack angle -
what about a 27.5 with a plus size Tyre ?
Attack angle will be greater than a standard 27.5 due to the larger diameter. I think a 3.0 will be close to a 29 2.2.
I like 27.5 plus on hardtails due to it making the ride less harsh and the weight you add with bigger tires is somewhat negated by the lack of rear suspension.
I think after watching a few of these 27.5 vs 29 I'm gonna go with a mullet Commencal Meta SX to split the difference with a 29 on the front for better stability and roll over and the 27.5 in the rear for easier climbing and quicker handling
When buying the 2019 Norco Sight on Black friday clearance a few months ago, i had a choice between the 29er and 27.5 for exact same price, same spec etc.....I chose the 27.5 because i'm still a bit on the noob-ish side and the faster/tighter handling I felt might result in less crashes/wipeouts and maybe a bit better grin factor, (and maybe slightly lighter weight to make the climbs easier?) Screw the stopwatch, i ride purely for fun and fitness, not racing.
I have a 29+ hardtail and a 27,5 full sus. Both feel amazing. The only reason why I'm going to look for a 29 fs for my next bike is the elevated bb, since the terrain here is so rooty and rocky, I can't stand the pedal strikes when trail riding on my full sus. I would like to choose my bike based off how I'm feeling, not be forced to go with the hardtail everytime I'm not riding downhill.
Im 5'9 and was torn between 27.5 and 29, got a giant reign 1 29 medium and it feels much more fun riding it downhill and uphill in my local trails.
Here in the northeast with lots of roots and rocks I felt like even if the 29er rolled better over obstacles I still lost too much momentum too often and it was harder to get up to speed again. Plus a 5'8" I liked the in bike feeling and acceleration of my 27.5 better.
My 10 cents...Choose the tool depending on the job on hand. Racing: If this was a seriously tight and twisty track 27.5. Long berms, rutted with bomb holes and roots 29er. Totally agree for for experienced recreational riders not racing and looking for Pure Fun: 27.5. That said I would always recommend a 29er for new bikers as it reducers the chance of accidents unless you fall under 5.5 feet. Unfortunately I suffer from wantitall biking syndrome and prefer the garage lined with 26er jump bike, 27.5/26 jump bike, 27.5 and 29ers. Throw in BMX, trail bike and stunt scooters and anything else that comes along lol
Awesome comparison !!!!!
Very good test, but I'm not a racer and time is not much important for me. More than time is a pleasure and fun of riding bikes. For now I love hardtails because I found a joy of riding bikes again. After many years of riding full suspension I feel bored of riding, but now I got fun again and I'm on 27,5 steel hardtail 😉
Ballerflex with that TP roll. Yout8must pay well hehe.
I would definitely do this test on a more chunky course
...with some uphill climbing added.
Not too surprised on your results but for those with 1 bike to cover a variety of terrain, 27.5x3" on rear is better for climbing and mud, sand etc.
As an old dirt bike guy there has to be something to the tall skinny up front, small fatty at rear.
There is a reason pretty much noone uses large tires anymore, since the novelty wore off, you still need to run high pressure if you want to have any stability on high impacts, and then there is an issue of the tire rebounding really fast, for casual riding large volume tires are great though, low pressure, lots of comfort and traction at the same time.
Fast vs Fun. For playing around, popping off stuff etc, i think 27,5 is the best or even 26". BUT with 29" you can just monstertruck everything.
Good way to state it, and if I want to go out *monster trucking* - I won't be bringing my 27.5" MTB.
Glad to hear someone else gasping for air on the uphill. . . Lol
which is faster is only relevant to people who race and sad middle aged men who obsess over Strava. which is most fun and you enjoy riding day to day is the question, oh and not in bike parks but in real world trails.
Nice test !
I would test more runs, on different trails. No reason it couldn't span over several days too. I would also try to make sure I was equally tired, meaning alternating between the bike if possible.
Imo doing a few runs on each instead of altering is better, as you have time to get used to the different handling, for sure needs more than 2 runs on each overall though, and what's the point of even including an invalid run in the counting?
But which size did you have more fun on??
Exactly. Why don’t they talk about this?!
Ride whatever you’re having the most fun on!
You should do a review video of your hd5 I’m looking into getting one and you make really good vizs
I'm not a professional...anything, but I really like my HD5. Really well designed bike and very fun to ride. Not that it applies to anyone out there, but helped with riding pain with my rheumatoid arthritis.
I'm a new sub but my big question would be, what are you riding most often? If you are riding a 29er most often then I would assume that you would be faster with a 29er and the same with 27.5. I would have liked to see this same test on separate days or even a 27.5, 29, 27.5, 29 flip-flop. Even if this was a run that you are use to, you are always going to be faster by run 4 vs run 1, regardless of the tire size and bike. Either way, great videos! Being from AZ I love the Sedona content. Personally, I've been riding since I was 16 (38 now), going from a 26 to 27.5 to 29 back 27.5. I absolutely hate 29er. This is just me though. I'm guessing that about he time I picked up the 29er I was the old dog and new tricks just weren't in the cards. I'm back in the seat of my Trek Remedy 8 and loving every minute of it. No matter what, just get out and ride!
now i know who took the toilet papers
I think it would be interesting if you did the test on something like a Firebird where you can run 27.5 or 29s on the exact same bike. I know you said the components were the same but frame geometry does vary between the two in this test.
But so does geometry vary between 2 wheel size settings.
Just bought a 29er last month, be interesting to see how I like it once the snow goes, I am coming off a 26er from last year
Many years ago I did the same switch from 26 to 29 hardtail and I loved it. Felt like a monster truck on the trail. I've moved to a 27.5 full suss and actually prefer the feel of the 29. Either way have fun!
I made the same switch couple years ago from an old freeride 26" bike to a trail 29" and was definitely weird getting used to it initially haha. The bars were the biggest change personally though tbh was like 650 to 780 lol
videogaminbiker889 .
3:02 nice name for a trail
The Ultimate RC Channel I was looking for this comment
Hey. I'm a short size beginner rider 5'2 with big 29ers which I seem can't to hit aggressive turns would you recommend down sizing 27.5 for turning at a faster pace?
I think people shorter than 5’3” might be better suited to a 27.5 bike OR a mullet bike (29” front and 27.5” rear).
@@TheLoamRanger thank you my dude much appreciated 💯 🙏🏽🤙🏽
wouldve been nice to have them side by side so you can really compare the difference in real time
My 29er dv9 has crushed 99% of my 2 yrs worth of PRs set on my 275 HD4 on exact xc/trail segments. BUT I wouldn't dare take the DV9 on black/double black dh/tech runs at tiger mtn or raging river! Good to have both but if just one...id take the Ripmo V2, maybe next year. lol
Could a Mulltet be est for both worlds like jumping and tech?
Yes but one major mistake in the toilet paper example is the difference between two rolls. It’s like comparing a 24’’ with a 50’’ wheel. The effect is exaggerated, in reality the difference is not so big. And of course it’s better to have a 27,5 with 180 mm front travel whereas a 29er with 160mm..... more absorption comes with more travel that wheel size cannot compensate. However numbers are numbers in the end. Very nice video
what I wold like to see is the test include the 29er with 27.5 wider tires. I have a Titus RacerX 29er and I had a extra set of 27.5 rims so I added 2.6 27.5 tires to the rims and they are the same overall diameter as the 2.3 29er ones but much more meat, I like the feel of the bike way more. Was it faster as a 29er, maybe but I much prefer the ride this way.
Did not expect the name of that trail to be, THAT! Lmoa
Lmoa?
Yes. Laughed my ass off
@@FlightKid do u mean lmao?
Nice video. Howabout rolling uphill? Which is faster?