THE BADAB WAR: Retrospective, from 80s White Dwarf to 00s Imperial Armour - 40k Archives
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- Опубліковано 20 сер 2024
- The Badab War is one of the most interesting bits of background in the Warhammer 40,000 universe - a Space Marine civil war invented early in the days of Rogue Trader and then returned to again and again by Games Workshop and Forge World, and a direct predecessor to the Horus Heresy series.
In this video, we go through the original story, it's appearances over the years, and how it has evolved over time.
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Copyright: Unless noted in the video, all images © Games Workshop 1987-2022. Title music is 'Black Rainbows' by Karl Casey @WhiteBatAudio
#warhammer40k #40klore #tabletopgaming #tabletopgames #40karchives #warhammer #wargaming #roguetrader #badab #badabwar #oldhammer
Most folks do "lore videos" without explaning how the changes are made over time. I didn't know Salamanders originally looked like that. The fact that even sites like Lexicanum don't detail this sort of "canonical growth" is very disappointing and it's even more impressive that one dude is doing this!
Yup. This makes these sorts of videos much more interesting and valuable.
There are so many "lore videos", in many franchises, that don't clearly lay out where this lore comes from or what context it was created in. They don't cite sources. They just present their information as "The Lore of [X]", as if there was only ever one lore or interpretation. It gives the false impression that the story of long-running properties is a single monolith. (Not to mention it invites arguments and confusion, as viewers inevitably go out to learn more, only to find someone else is presenting totally different information as being "The Lore").
It would be more helpful and more interesting if more people examined lore as a "living document", subject to change, refinement, and reinterpretation.
I got into 40K in late 1993. Even then there were lore revisions.
One of my college mates uses the phrase “I stopped playing 40K when the Dark Angels changed from black to green”
I agree, the meta-lore of the events in terms of how GW initially reported, retconned, and adapted them in-universe has been really compelling.
huron just pulled a George Washington and said "no taxation without representation"
The Badab War sounds really interesting. A moment when Space Marine fought Space Marine, but it wasn't wrapped up in the machinations of Chaos, like the Horus Heresy. It's just a group of beleaguered military forces, becoming frustrated with their leaders, and deciding to rebel. It's also just a great example of how you don't need to involve Chaos in order to show horrors and atrocities being perpetrated. Humans are capable of war crimes all on their own.
Plus, it's nice to see a Space Marine conflict centered around chapters that aren't just the same half dozen ones that have come to dominate 40K's lore.
Really interesting story!!
I miss Alan Bligh dearly. He knew how to write great, sweeping conflicts as the external representation of its main protagonists, never leaving the human element and the inherent tragedy of the 40k setting out of sight. Forgeworld and GW in general are.poorer without him.
Thanks for reminding me of all the great memories his work has made for me over the decades.
What happened to him!
@@Dracobyte Tragically, he died of cancer in 2017.
R.I.P Alan Bligh, legend
@@dekai7992wow!
Very excited for more of this! Badab introduced my favorite chapter, the Carcharodons, and I love seeing retrospectives on the setting that introduced them.
"Hark to the sound of the guns out yonder! Hark to the sound of the guns out yonder!"
Sharksharkodons!
Gary Chalk's artwork is always a treat. His illustrations are so fresh.
I love Huron. Secessionism and Renegade-ing is such a cool pair of concepts, I keep wanting to see more or it.
@@paulyg405 I think the closest we've seen in recent years to secession in the setting has been the Ynnari. But the Aeldari and Drukhari forces and characters that can join the Ynnari can still be used in their original armies so the secession is not a complete one.
At present Imperium feels too big, especially when compared to other Factions. It's why I was rooting for Belisarius Cawl's work to have inspired a Civil War.
Civil Wars just work really well for story material. It's why people dig Horus Heresy so much. Why there were so many Greycoat Protagonists in Westerns.
@@paulyg405 aayuh zzzy
@@paulyg405 Chapters, armies, planets or systems that go renegade without sucking off chaos are far more interesting than the dime a dozen heretical traitors, GW is sleeping on the demand for non-chaos affiliated traitors, there are not enough.
Man, this is rad. I WISH FW would re-release this series of books, do a novel series, and bring back the line of minis surrounding it.
That would be so awesome!
Hold my .. u remember?
Agreed👍
They are. A Huron book is coming out in a few months.
I was today years old when I learned I need this.
I want good spess mereen books set in the 40k time era, and these would be those.
OMG! It's been months since I began trying to remember which cartoon bear-type thing it was that Tactical Tortoise reminds me of.... and now, thanks to this video, I have it! It took the brief mention of one Gary Chalk, the illustrator who drew the SM chapters from the WD101 Badab War article (as well as all the Talisman artwork and most of Steve Jackson's book covers). Gary used to include a little caricature of himself as a byline photo in later WDs, as a little bear, and it it looks exactly like Tactical Tortoise's real face. Such a relief!
Funny things, the works of Alan Blight always seemed more grounded than many other stuff written by others.
Bedab war from the Rogue trader was the thing that got me started back in the day. Still have my original Fire Angles units. Fantastic vid on Canon and growth on one of the best earlier bits of 40K
I came for the retrospective.
I stayed for the shirt!
Bro ski!
Where is it from?!
Really appreciate the look at how a single event has changed through the years and what initial inspiration and events turned into later. I would love to see a video on the Lamenters. They exist in little drips through the entirety of the history of 40K, but they always continue to pop up.
I'm very much considering a series of 40k Archives videos on the Badab Chapters - just because so many of them have interesting and long-lived stories.
@@ArbitorIan I would love to see this. I always appreciate less famous units in the 40K-verse getting attention... same reason I liked your video about your Marines Errant army.
What I really like about this (and others have mentioned it) is that you show how things have changed over time, showing new people that the background is flexible and open to change. I generally don't like youtube lore videos at all, because they give way too much of a "This is the Canon, any deviation is Heresy" approach which I think limits creativity in a game setting like Warhammer (though the same is true of lore videos for stuff like Dungeons and Dragons). I think it is better for hobbyists if they feel free to reinterpret and reinvent the background to suit their tastes, and this style of video helps to promote that while still being interesting and informative for people who want to know the actual lore.
You are really knocking it out of the park with this initial salvo of videos.
Thanks, and totally agree. The setting changes all the time, that's one of the good things about it!
@johnny big bones really gets what can be so awesome about these hobbies. Make them yours with your friends.
I've always felt that the reasons for turning renegade that Alan put forward in the IA book felt for genuine and believable than the reasoning behind Horus turning in the HH novels. Believable being relative in a work of fiction, I know.
Horus getting turned to chaos in the Black Library novels was very much a “wait… really?” moment for me. With all respect to the authors, in my opinion it was clumsily done, and Horus very quickly becomes a mustache-twirling evil bad guy in the novels, which is very anti everything that he was portrayed as previously.
@@tinyfishhobby3138I know this comment is two years old but YES God damn it happens way way to fast IMO like instead of Turning against emps right away, for me it would of been better ifHorus was shown the vision of the future, but doesn't know how it will happen and eventually sees how much of a tyrant the emperor is & then turns against him, falling into darkness & bringing the future he didn't want into being.
PS: Before then I really liked Horus & loken, the mournival but like you said soons as he's healthy from the knife wound well time to burn the galaxy guys
@@Ghostvertigo Suspect a lot of that has to do with the original plans for the novels - I think it was only ever intended to be 3-6 books(?) before they decided to make a longer series out of it. So it needed to happen fat
Great as always. I also enjoy the human stories in 40k - that's why classic Rogue Trader artwork and storytelling appeals to me as it does. Modern 40k is very much larger than life - mythical struggles, evil villains and undaunted heroes (and they're very much portrayed as heroes). In contrast, Rogue Trader also shows the mundane inanities of life in the 41st millenium like mighty Space Marines on guard duty.
Great videos. Keep em coming!
40K seems to have gotten less 2000AD and more Star Wars with each edition
Great look at a really fascinating piece of 40k lore. I miss these types of IA books, they were incredible. I hope one day someone at FW will step into the breach
As someone who really only got into Warhammer lore stuff a few months ago, I really appreciate these videos that show the evolution of lore.
As they say in the Black Library: “ Everything is canon . Not everything is true.”
Keep up,the great vids.
Amazing stuff, this noob is learning a lot with your videos. Love the theme music.
I love how you tell us how concepts and stories have evolved over many years. It's really interesting, thank you.
Great video. It would be cool if you covered more Imperial Armor stories, as those books are hard to find / prohibitively expensive these days and they tell great stories.
A while ago I ran the tyrants legion as a army and its really fun. There conscripts act as cover and allow models behind then a 4 up cover save save that everytime made kills a conscript
Recently stumbled into this channel, gotta say; the 80's to 00's/Now videos take me back to how 40k was introduced to me back in early middle school/junior high. Best lore vids ive found, with out too much pomp or fluff
Best changelog ever
This is an excellent video. Not only is it well made on the technical end, but its concise and extremely clear. As someone who knew very little about the badab war going in, the explanation is both brief yet informative. It doesn't feel like there's any wasted time. Furthermore, a lot of channels would just talk about the lore, so its refreshing to see a channel that did its research into not only the setting, but what was happening in the real world that affected it. The clear effort and professionalism put into this video make this channel worth subscribing to.
My first contact with the Badab War was ABorder Prince's retelling of it, and once I got the rough picture I went "Wait, this is about space taxes?" And that was pretty awesome, because after having listened to Mike Duncan's history podcasts, taxes are pretty high on the list of thins I can see wars erupting. And then Oculus Imperia went into the details of the legal process adjudicating the not-yet-war, and now I feel like that to really understand the Badab War, I'd have to know more about space tax law. I mean, does the Emperor's remit to the space marines to claim resources necessary in the defense of the Imperium really include de facto declaring whole clusters of planets Aptus Non? Ultramar kind of *is* a good precedent, so how did the Adeptus Arbites come to their judgment? Or is the power of requisition limited somewhere in the Codex Astartes? Was the trial influenced by pressures of realpolitik? I NEED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT SPACE LAW!
might be my favorite wh40k channel! i've been learning a lot about the lore with your videos
RIP Alan Bligh, he got taken from us too soon... :(
I love this more Behind the Scenes stuff you're doing (and doing well right out of the gate), definitely a niche there among the countless 40k Loretubers
Great video mate! Love the Badab War. One of my favorite gaming memories was playing the events of the Badab War over two campaign weekends with a gaming group called the Tempus Fugitives back in 2011 up at the old Maelstrom Games store in Mansfield. It was awesome, and it's crazy to think that it was only 10 years ago. Especially when you consider how far Marines have come since then. :)
Tempus Fugitives! Did those guys do a proto-Heresy event too, way before Heresy was a real thing?
@@ArbitorIan yes mate. Age of the Emperor or something like that. I sadly didn't attend any of their Heresy stuff because reasons. But friends of mine were massively into it and contributed a lot to all the various rules and events.
Was headed up by Stuart Mackaness from Wayland if I remember correctly.
It was a great gaming group!
Your delivery is so good, I often find myself getting bored and leaving videos half way though but no chance of that here. Keep up the great work!
It's so cool to see the evolution of the badaab war and by extension, multiple chapters and factions
My first ever issue of White Dwarf was 101 when I was a Primary school kid introduced to the hobby by a friend so the Badab war has always been one of my favourite bits of 40k lore. Still hanging onto those Forgeworld Badab books no matter how outdated the rules are now. With the release of the new MK6 marines and Heresy era vehicles a force of marines unable to get newer stuff because of going renegade or being forbidden it due to penitent censure rules would be quite fun to do.
Love how you tackle 30/40k lore as how it started and has evolved.
Cheers for the vids, I've subbed and am keen for more content.
I really want more black library stories featuring the Minotaurs.
This is a great series on the Badab War, and it’s dearly making me regret selling my books. At the time I needed space and wasn’t that interested in space marines, so they went off to a friend. Didn’t know then that Alan would pass away shortly after, and that they’d soon go OOP.
1:00 "40Gay background"! Now this i can get behind.
to me the most interesting thing is that it's set in the actual 41st millennium! for some reason it seems like it's set at some point between the Heresy and modern 40k, but no, it's actually still pretty fresh (aka "just" a thousand years or so) in the timeline!
also really nice seeing some chapters that have been slotted in to be successors. on a big iron hands tip at the moment so sons of medusa are really interesting. gotta read these when they come to the WH+ vault!
Hey Ian, love your video! I seriously enjoy whenever a contentcreator goes into the past books for any info. Most creators go for recent books to capitalise on trends.
Please do keep up your exquisite work.
If you need any info on the books, I managed to secure myeslf a copy of each book before 8th seriously hit us.
Great video - well presented, well illustrated. Chapeau!
Ok, is it bad that my favorit part of that video is just the amazing old school color scheme of the different chapters?
Clicked the bell, can't wait for more. Cracking videos.
The unlucky Lamenters.
Poor sad lamenters. They never get a break.
Awesome attention to details in your videos ! Keep up the good work
I can only imagine what that paint scheme would have done to Salamander popularity, seems like a rough paintjob to repeat for all your minis
I love this sort of video. One of the most fascinating things to me about 40k's lore is how it has evolved and changed over the years. Sites like Lexicanum are good but they only really cover the lore as it stands now, which is disappointing when there's so much interest to be had in seeing how it's changed.
I first got into 40k at the tail end of the '80s. My oldest White Dwarf is in fact issue 101, though that was bought as a back issue a year or two later than it's original date of publishing. (White Dwarf 116 was the first issue I bought new.) My first Space Marine army was of Fire Angels, picked from the colour spread of the Badab War article before I discovered how annoying it was to paint white power armour with the Citadel paints of the time! I was quite annoyed on behalf of my younger self when I returned to the hobby a few years ago and discovered that the Fire Angels had been retconned into wearing silver armour in the meantime - I'm pretty sure I'd have had less grief with my army if that had been the case in 1990!
One thing I find curious about 40k's continued obsession about the Badab War is that the original article about it comments that it was a lesser conflict than the Fourth Quadrant Rebellion, yet that war seems to have had much less of an impact on the game over the years. I think that the Fourth Quadrant Rebellion was mentioned as a background detail in several articles in the early days of 40k, but as far as I can tell (mainly from looking on Lexicanum and similar sites, natch) it's never been fleshed out remotely as much as the Badab War has.
I love these retrospective vids! It would be great to see more of these for races and chapters too!
Great video, I love the idea of people going renegade from the imperium with the influence of Chaos, I think it's far more engaging and understandable.
I got into 40k in 2nd before the Chaos Codex came out and had the Badab war loosely desribed to me by an older player and the idea of a rogue space marine chapter was something that really appealed to me and I was sad when it just became chaos influence, glad to see forge world brought it back to something more interesting.
I love the retrospective video, would be great to see others, like for the 3rd War of Armageddon
Really awesome and informative Sir. Great Video. I love the Badab War Story, thanks for giving us this background.
I got into 40K in the early 1990s. The early Badab War lore was certainly an inspiration. My “DIY” chapter has a cameo style livery (3rd Edition had a DIY system) stopped playing 15 years ago, ended up with 2 full company chapter.
Do you still have your models?
@@Razgriz_01 Yup. Couldn’t part with them for nostalgia reasons.
150 marines, 20 scouts, 20 termies, 6 bike’s, 2 speeders, an original land raider, an original predator, 2 other predators and 3 rhino variants. (Also have a squad each of deathwatch, sisters & Grey Knights, several assassins and an inquisitorial retinue)
Recently gave a squad of metal steel legion and some Space Hulk models to a mate as he has gotten into the painting side of things.
Great I was just wondering if you'd done a badab war video!
Great vid thanks mate, always wondered about Badab.
The whole setting could use more nuanced and murky plots like this instead of relying on the Chaos = Root of all Bad juxtaposition we are used too in the vast majority of mainline story arc...if that makes sense.
Personally, iI dislike Chaos marines for this reason. I hate all the gimpy spikes and campy evil tropes they embody. It makes sense at the extreme ends of the scale and where direct manifestations of the Gods are literally bleeding into the mortal realms.
I just feel like if there was a much vaster grey area inbetween here and there, where the lines between loyalist and renegade have all but evaportated by the 41st millenium, it would be a far more rich and gritty material to build on and tell stories about. And those rare collisions with the Warp where shit gets super gnarly would have all the more impact. As it is, when a demon does inevitably turn up in a story, it like "oh hey, what took you so long?"
IT WOULD BE EVEN MORE GRIMDARK!
An amazing video as always!
The icing on the cake would have been to show the miniatures that accompanied each lore expansion.
Mate these videos are so good! Would love to see you do a Schaeffers Last Chancers video
I love the “space sharks” chapter name. Should be brought back. I can just imagine bright blue space marines with metal Mohawks and battle axes shaped like guitars.
Badadada I'm loving it
I’ve been searching for years for videos like this, (irl history of lore events over the editions) could you do one on the necrons?
Thanks! I'll put it on the list. Making a video about the history of necrons in the game seems way more achievable than making one about the Necron fluff!
another great video
I've been looking into the Badab War as I've been looking to build up an Exorcists army, once I've gotten through more of my paint queue that is! 😆
I don't remember it happening this way, and I've just re-read the series to make sure.
Heuron was trying to SAVE the Astral Claws from the Terran lords who were attempting to smother them into extinction. The Astral Claws and associated alliances were the GOOD GUYS in this story....
Great video, thanks!
I love those old garish camo patterns, so delightfully cheesy
Really enjoying your channel Ian :) good pacing, description and insight. Very much looking forward to more; keep up the good work!
Thanks!
great channel! praise the algorithm.
I really like your outro.
All I know about Badab is your two videos - but from what you've said there, I'm pretty sure the Badab campaign is essentially the Carthaginian and Phyrric Wars In Spaaaace. Which is not a bad thing, 40K clearly has elements of the later Roman Empire built into the background and history is a widely used source for all kinds of science fiction. One of the Hammer's Slammers novels is put in a backdrop based on the Carthaginian War, too!
Although, the literal Phyrric Victory you mention in the other video is maybe a bit on the nose...
I kinda hope that GW will use the Age of Darkness game as inspiration for making different games for different settings. It would allow for players to do pseudo-historical projects like Badab, Armageddon, Ichar IV and so on.
Great video. It makes me laugh that the history of Rogue Trader/Warhammer 40k was rewritten and changed over and over over the years and we all accept it, but apparently adding Primaris to the setting was literally the worst thing ever to happen even though this kind of change happened a million times in the past. Necons? NOT MY CHAOS ANDROIDS!!! said no-one...
Great video!
So the lamenters and Mantis marines colors haven't changed much. i kind of dig the astral claws original look though!
You mention the tithes , but I would say it was the frustration with the small forces of the 'Maelstrom Wardens'. They never had enough forces to remove the Xenos and Pirates completely. It's the Imperium's Higher ups being old, unreasonable and foolish. Those darn Administratum! lol
nevermind.. I see your describing how the Badab lore evolved. :)
Very interesting, love your vids
That shirt were can I get one? ^o^
Thank you for both your videos about this interesting piece of lore. I’m right now listening to longer retellings of the story, but your wrap-ups lit my initial interest :)
Im starting considering building a small force of old 2nd edition models based on this conflict.
But as a sidenote; it looks to me as the basic story (not sure if by Blighs intention or even earlier when they printed the first articles) the whole arc reminds me heavily of the plot from ‚apocalypse now‘ or even ‚heart of darkness‘ (haven’t read it, but it’s often mentioned inside the film). Do you know if Bligh or someone else from GW clarified this? In some WD articles they gave ideas of how to adapt historic or other fictional stories for a campaign background.
Just curious about that :)
I just have to say that I much more prefer the Red Corsairs in their 2nd ed rendition (as ragtag turncoats rather than as a single chapter that fell). It makes the "renegade" angle far more interesting and less Horus-y.
huron just pulled a George Washington and said "no taxation without representation"
New race in Warhammer 40k
How much do we miss Alan Blythe ??
While I do enjoy the background getting fleshed out in the Imperial Armour books, I will never forgive them for renaming the Space Sharks. When their peers include Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Ultra Marines and the Iron Hands - named after a guy whose name in Latin meant _Iron Hands_ even *before* he got his iron hands - I refuse to accept that "Space Sharks" was too silly a name.
Wonder how the badab war book would play in 9th edition.
Dude. This is awesome, how many books did u eat? Hahahahah
Goodoog Peace retrospective when?
I really like your shirt, where did you get it? My wife will hate it so I want one.
My girlfriend hates it too! Unfortunately, the answer is 'TK Maxx about 3 years ago' which probably isn't much help... :/
@@ArbitorIan ah, ok. It's found treasure then.
"ShapeShifter?!"......SpaceFaceEight maybe.....;)
Yeah that's all well and good but what is that shirt mate I want one
RIP Bligh
Space Sharks!
Space Sharks!
I will always be an Astral claws simp
How do you remember?
So then the forgeworld book compiles everything prior into one telling?
Yeah, and also adds a lot to make it make sense
@@ArbitorIan Awesome, thanks for the reply, great video, this one and your other one detailing the Badab War.
The Badab War is just a way for GW to popularize the less well known SM chapters.
I quite liked that about the 2010 books. Of course, at the start, they were all as unknown as the others!
@@ArbitorIan Have you seen Arch's video series on the Badab War and the preceding Vraks Siege? It's quite the listen
My entire army is red corsairs
Of course the Space Marines were Badabbers. Have you tried dabbing with shoulder pads that large?
it's such a shame with every new edition they are brining us away from the rule systems that these books are compatible with
Ya-“badab”-ado war
Salamanders are amphibian not lizards!
👌🙂💚
Why do they bit lore in rule books lmao just make a book