Well explained Johnny 👍 better than the advice that was in the BASC magazine stating that your safe firing a shotgun with a ringed barrel. Superb channel. All the best. Garry
As long as the steel is contained in a wad and doesnt have contact with the bore and there is no choke or only minimal choke u can shoot steel in the oldest shotgun on earth,for the powder and pressure it doesnt matter if u push away 24/28/32/34/36grams of weight.
In Canada it's law to use steel when waterfowling. I shoot #2 or #3 with an improved modified choke (use the same gun and choke for clays) through my semi weatherby sa08 with no problem.
I'm new to shooting and just getting up to speed with everything. What I don't understand between the lead/steel shot issue is that all the shot is held in the wad (effectively a sabot) which stops the shot coming into contact with the barrel, so as far as I can understand there is no issue with the shot ?scratching? the barrel. If that's not the case is there something else in steel shot cartridges which damages the gun?
I dont understand how it makes any difference considering the shot travels down the barrel encased in a plastic shot cup. Any ideas on this? Also why did we go straight to steel shot instead of copper? Copper is heavier than steel and considerably less abrasive.
I have a 4 year old Browning B25 B2G choked half and three quarters. On downloading the instruction manual from Browning, the manufacturer explicitly advises not to put steel shot through the gun. Before Basc and the other bodies made their announcement, it would have been very helpful to ask all manufacturers of guns to state unequivocally what their position was with respect to potential damage from steel.
Let's see...am I going to put standard steel through my 1/2 choked nitro proofed Damascus barreled Purdey? Probably not. Good info though. Now where's that old Mossberg?
I have a Mossberg 535. It’s basically a Mossberg 500 but it’s chambered for 3 1/2 inch or 89 mm shells. Those guns are not rated for steel. I only run lead shot through my Mossberg. I also have a browning BPS Invector chambered in 10 gauge 3 1/2 inch or 89 mm. That gun is designed for steel or lead or bismuth. With steel, you want to go with an improve cylinder or a modified choke here in the United States. I think it would be called a half choke in UK. I don’t do any waterfowl hunting but I do have some steel ammo that I just take out to my range and play around with it with my 10 gauge, but I also loaded my own shells, but I don’t load steel shells at the moment. Still is a decent alternative to lead if it’s used right and the choke makes all the difference because I see people running steel through a full choke or an extra full choke and it absolutely destroys barrels. But as long as you go with an improved cylinder or even improved modified, which is in between an improved cylinder and modified choke you’ll be fine. But make sure you get a gun that is rated for steel though
i put steel thru my old 61 jp sauer sbs. had the choke reemed to 1/4. and im sticking to light loads. has been fine. and i have jonny to thank for getting a sbs. its a sickness. but i love it
Problem with steel is that it slows down so much faster than lead. You need to shoot about 2 sizes larger pellet than you would for lead. Example #5 lead for pheasant would need to be #3 steel to have the same killing power. With all the chokes on the market you can get one that will shoot almost any size shot
Personal experience is keep it at about 3mm shot and you will be fine out to about 40 meters with standard. If one insists on doing more than that you should get the equipment needed, very high speed rounds, bismuth or such, expect a premium in price however.
@@tgsoutdoors Hope you also consider load developments for walk up pheasants at a distance. Big difference shooting pheasants coming at you exposing their heads and breasts, as opposed to trying to reach the vitals of a bird flying away. Especially, at long range.
I have a Damascus barrelled SxS hammer gun, 2 1/2 inch chambers, almost certainly late Victorian, originally proofed for BP, but also proofed for Nitro. Will that take the new Eco Steel cartridges?I am currently using Eley Impax no6 shot as the most eco friendly option for my gun that is available from my local RFD.
Hi Johnny Did you ever find out about the Ely eco wad 3shot 32g been standard? Like you said says standard on their web site. I've been using them through my old semi-automatic with 1/4 with no ill effects.
Just bought my first shotgun. An AYA Yeoman with 1/4 and 3/4 chokes. Does that mean I'm going to be hanging it on the wall/ paying through the nose for Bismuth come 2024!?
JamesnOdin I bought the same gun back in October. I felt 3/4 was too tight ( for walked up pheasants)so I got it opened out to 1/2. As the barrels are not chrome the guy took just £40 to do for me. From what he said and Johnny said, I’ll be fine with standard steel. I’ll give it a go on a pattern plate and decide if it can be opened up a wee bit more, just to be on the safe side.
@@0ldg00ner Cheers for the comment. Let me know how it gets on with the standard steel on the plate and in the bores! I do mostly walked up too, the odd pigeon hide too. So reckon I could get away with a 1/2 choke. And for £40, that's well worth it to future proof the gun.
@@0ldg00ner that's fair enough. Although I'll definitely enquire at my local gunsmith for a quote regardless. I suppose the silver lining is I have 5 years to get it sorted or find an alternative cartridge!
So if I were to buy the MK60 English Field fixed at 1/2 & 3/4 would you have it bored to 1/2 & 1/2 to allow for larger shot sizes? How would this affect the chrome bore lining- need that barrel re-chromed??
I have a 20/70 side by side from gitti in gardone. From around the 80s with kind solid barrels. I have Full and half chokes.. i only shoot 24g clay ammo but have to use steel.. the pattern is unbelivable tight !! Do i have to be worried bout bolging my barrels ? Everyone says standard 24g clay ammo is no problem ... but my pattern tells me the shot get tight together massivly .. thanks for a anser :)
OK question on all my browning auto 5 and superposed the gun shops tell me that I can shoot in them because of the steel of the barrels ? so on my hunting auto 5 I have change the Belgium barrels to Japanese barrels thoughts please respond and yes I love your channel Alan Thomas
Been shooting steel over 20 years in the US it WILL! damage older guns your going to need a newer manufactured one barrels are harder steel and have steel save choke tubes. And that heavy plastic wad helps keep the steel pellets from making contact with the bore. there just telling you what you want to hear nitro Proof means nothing other then its save for smokeless nitro base powder I’ve shot steel in older guns after a few boxs you could see the damage in the barrel imprints of the steel shot in the forcing cone Area and choke if you gun was lets say made before 1990 its not steel shot save
I know my Miroku mk70 has a fleur de lis mark but I've got an old 1980s Mossberg 500 which doesn't have that mark. It has a UK proofing house mark and a fixed choke. I've always been wary and only used lead. Is steel safe in the old beast ?
@@tgsoutdoors Further to the previous info I removed the heat shield. The barrel is marked modified choke or half in UK talk and pressure tested to 4 tons, 2 and a 1/2 or 3 inch magnum shells. So I'm assuming its ok for steel as smaller chokes are not recommended
@@adambetts5971 Hi Adam the gamebore change from standard in 5 shot to supervisor in 3 shot 32 gram The Ely eco wad in 5 are standard and it looks like the 3 is as well??? After reading their web site and nothing saying supervisor on package. I've just asked Johnny if he clarify this as he mentioned during this video that it was unclear. I've been putting the Ely 3 through my semi-automatic with 1/4 choke and it looks to be coping ok.
My 20 bore is fully choked and thanks to the idiots rolling over again to anti,, s and greens what do I use. No ammo no shooting it's sickening this sport is getting elitist and leaving us little folks behind.
I Shoot a winchester 101 ou in 20 bore. In Denmark we can not use lead , since 1996 i belive. My Winchester is 3/4 and 1/2 and i have no problems using gamebore/Kent 24 grams size 3 and 4 eur size (3,5 and 3,25 mm). I even have some 20/76 24 grams size 3 with 475ms for geese and roedeer and they have been fired without ploblems as well. We had the same isues in Denmark back then. Now i know it was for no reason, all thow from the get go, the cartridges where off wery poor quality. By law the speed must be at min. 400ms and all cartridges that are holding that speed, will kill within 30 meters, wich is the longest shot recommentet by our ethics in the hunting law. Most of the cartridges will kill at longer distances op to 50 meters depending on speed and shotsize. The size 3 with 475 ms will kill pheasants at aprox 50 meters. Tha goal now must be to get the plastic reduced :-)
So what was the verdict on the eley eco wad 3s?. Will they damage a gun without the fleur de Lys?. I can’t find anything on the box or website saying they’re a no go for standard CIP proof
@@tgsoutdoors just looking at your other videos now, I am looking at two different guns , one Scottish the other English but they only have 2 1/2" chambers. I don't want to commit to something that I am unable to use.
Can I safely shoot steel shot in my Akkar Churchill 612 tactical 12 gauge 2.75 inch and 3.00 inch shotgun with an 18.5 inch barrel. This is my first time owning a shotgun. Thanks.
Well explained Johnny 👍 better than the advice that was in the BASC magazine stating that your safe firing a shotgun with a ringed barrel. Superb channel. All the best. Garry
Thank you. I have often wondered if it would damage my older shotguns. Need to use non toxic shot for water fowl in the USA.
Ok so what I get from all this malarkey is that to be on the safe side dont shoot steel shot....gotcha
As long as the steel is contained in a wad and doesnt have contact with the bore and there is no choke or only minimal choke u can shoot steel in the oldest shotgun on earth,for the powder and pressure it doesnt matter if u push away 24/28/32/34/36grams of weight.
Very true, I know a chap who puts steel through a muzzle loader with no cup!
In Canada it's law to use steel when waterfowling. I shoot #2 or #3 with an improved modified choke (use the same gun and choke for clays) through my semi weatherby sa08 with no problem.
BEST vid so far on steel shot, thanks Jonny, short and sweet
I'm new to shooting and just getting up to speed with everything.
What I don't understand between the lead/steel shot issue is that all the shot is held in the wad (effectively a sabot) which stops the shot coming into contact with the barrel, so as far as I can understand there is no issue with the shot ?scratching? the barrel.
If that's not the case is there something else in steel shot cartridges which damages the gun?
I dont understand how it makes any difference considering the shot travels down the barrel encased in a plastic shot cup. Any ideas on this? Also why did we go straight to steel shot instead of copper? Copper is heavier than steel and considerably less abrasive.
Spensive
I have a 4 year old Browning B25 B2G choked half and three quarters. On downloading the instruction manual from Browning, the manufacturer explicitly advises not to put steel shot through the gun. Before Basc and the other bodies made their announcement, it would have been very helpful to ask all manufacturers of guns to state unequivocally what their position was with respect to potential damage from steel.
Paul Robinson the Guns hould be fine if taken out to 1/2 in both barrels with standard steel shot
Maybe as a supporter in the movement you can take some guns out and show us shooting steel through different chokes and what pattern it is?
Let's see...am I going to put standard steel through my 1/2 choked nitro proofed Damascus barreled Purdey? Probably not. Good info though. Now where's that old Mossberg?
I expect I would be in the same boat, bismuth or lead for the purdey and any old Junk through the mossberg
bar in wood or something else?
I have a mossberg 500a and they don't have any other proof marks than the mossberg proof any input much appreciated
I have a Mossberg 535. It’s basically a Mossberg 500 but it’s chambered for 3 1/2 inch or 89 mm shells. Those guns are not rated for steel. I only run lead shot through my Mossberg. I also have a browning BPS Invector chambered in 10 gauge 3 1/2 inch or 89 mm. That gun is designed for steel or lead or bismuth. With steel, you want to go with an improve cylinder or a modified choke here in the United States. I think it would be called a half choke in UK. I don’t do any waterfowl hunting but I do have some steel ammo that I just take out to my range and play around with it with my 10 gauge, but I also loaded my own shells, but I don’t load steel shells at the moment. Still is a decent alternative to lead if it’s used right and the choke makes all the difference because I see people running steel through a full choke or an extra full choke and it absolutely destroys barrels. But as long as you go with an improved cylinder or even improved modified, which is in between an improved cylinder and modified choke you’ll be fine. But make sure you get a gun that is rated for steel though
i put steel thru my old 61 jp sauer sbs. had the choke reemed to 1/4. and im sticking to light loads. has been fine. and i have jonny to thank for getting a sbs. its a sickness. but i love it
"Old"...65mm chambers like mine?
Bloke u nailed it hip hip hooray yank
Thank you Jonny that is most helpful.
Problem with steel is that it slows down so much faster than lead. You need to shoot about 2 sizes larger pellet than you would for lead. Example #5 lead for pheasant would need to be #3 steel to have the same killing power. With all the chokes on the market you can get one that will shoot almost any size shot
We have a video coming on just that next week, followed hopefully by some load developments for a high bird steel shot.
Personal experience is keep it at about 3mm shot and you will be fine out to about 40 meters with standard. If one insists on doing more than that you should get the equipment needed, very high speed rounds, bismuth or such, expect a premium in price however.
@@tgsoutdoors Hope you also consider load developments for walk up pheasants at a distance. Big difference shooting pheasants coming at you exposing their heads and breasts, as opposed to trying to reach the vitals of a bird flying away. Especially, at long range.
Good topic as I think the time will come when Eco-Friendly cartridges will be mandatory.
There is nothing eco friendly about wounded game from inferior shot!
I have a Damascus barrelled SxS hammer gun, 2 1/2 inch chambers, almost certainly late Victorian, originally proofed for BP, but also proofed for Nitro. Will that take the new Eco Steel cartridges?I am currently using Eley Impax no6 shot as the most eco friendly option for my gun that is available from my local RFD.
John 1962 no do not put steel through twist steel barrels irrespective of if it’s nitro proofed
I don't fire steel cartridges at all. I have a Beretta al391 urika 1.Can I fire 2oz lead 12 bore cartridges through it?
Could you do a demo (if possible of course steel 23/4 trapgun 1 OZ out of old school Perrazzi. 725 bore
Are you getting in the new sako s20 rifles? And if you do can you do a review on them?
Hopefully - we have asked Sako!
Hi Johnny
Did you ever find out about the Ely eco wad 3shot 32g been standard? Like you said says standard on their web site.
I've been using them through my old semi-automatic with 1/4 with no ill effects.
Hiya Johnny. Just bought a Miroku MK38 Gr 5 trap. Opened up from 3/4 and full to fixed 1/4 and 1/2 by Teague. is it ok for steel. Good vid, thanks.
Just bought my first shotgun. An AYA Yeoman with 1/4 and 3/4 chokes. Does that mean I'm going to be hanging it on the wall/ paying through the nose for Bismuth come 2024!?
JamesnOdin I bought the same gun back in October. I felt 3/4 was too tight ( for walked up pheasants)so I got it opened out to 1/2. As the barrels are not chrome the guy took just £40 to do for me. From what he said and Johnny said, I’ll be fine with standard steel. I’ll give it a go on a pattern plate and decide if it can be opened up a wee bit more, just to be on the safe side.
@@0ldg00ner Cheers for the comment. Let me know how it gets on with the standard steel on the plate and in the bores! I do mostly walked up too, the odd pigeon hide too. So reckon I could get away with a 1/2 choke. And for £40, that's well worth it to future proof the gun.
JamesnOdin it was only £40 because the shop that sold it was also a gunsmith. If I’d bought the gun elsewhere, re-choking it would have cost more.
@@0ldg00ner that's fair enough. Although I'll definitely enquire at my local gunsmith for a quote regardless. I suppose the silver lining is I have 5 years to get it sorted or find an alternative cartridge!
So if I were to buy the MK60 English Field fixed at 1/2 & 3/4 would you have it bored to 1/2 & 1/2 to allow for larger shot sizes? How would this affect the chrome bore lining- need that barrel re-chromed??
1/2 and 1/4 no sense in being the same
Can you shoot steel though a fixed modified choke the shotgun is a Mossberg 500 made in 2020?
Yes
In short, if you’ve got a fleur de lis, you’re good to go with any?
Indeed!
I have a 20bore 1935 purdy what duck cartridges would you recommend
could you do a video on pure copper shot?
What if the gun have fixed chokes (full chock)
same here, interested if #1 will blew up my old fixed full/full
Can you put "very high pressues steel " through your gun . Yes once ,maybe twice before it is ruined.
I have a 20/70 side by side from gitti in gardone. From around the 80s with kind solid barrels. I have Full and half chokes.. i only shoot 24g clay ammo but have to use steel.. the pattern is unbelivable tight !! Do i have to be worried bout bolging my barrels ? Everyone says standard 24g clay ammo is no problem ... but my pattern tells me the shot get tight together massivly .. thanks for a anser :)
OK question on all my browning auto 5 and superposed the gun shops tell me that I can shoot in them because of the steel of the barrels ? so on my hunting auto 5 I have change the Belgium barrels to Japanese barrels thoughts please respond and yes I love your channel Alan Thomas
I have a 1954 nitro proof spanish side by side. So I can use steel.. might reload my ammo.
Been shooting steel over 20 years in the US it WILL! damage older guns your going to need a newer manufactured one barrels are harder steel and have steel save choke tubes. And that heavy plastic wad helps keep the steel pellets from making contact with the bore. there just telling you what you want to hear nitro Proof means nothing other then its save for smokeless nitro base powder I’ve shot steel in older guns after a few boxs you could see the damage in the barrel imprints of the steel shot in the forcing cone Area and choke if you gun was lets say made before 1990 its not steel shot save
I'll be shooting lead thank you!
Is it British number 3’s you mean, they are 3.25mm and 4’s are 3.1mm
Sorry I see your correction now with the potential max of 4mm thanks
How much will they cost
Will lead still be allowed on clay grounds ?
Yes it will be.
So.... everyone buying a new gun and scrap the older ones. Got it . 👍
I know my Miroku mk70 has a fleur de lis mark but I've got an old 1980s Mossberg 500 which doesn't have that mark. It has a UK proofing house mark and a fixed choke. I've always been wary and only used lead. Is steel safe in the old beast ?
yes. check the choke.
@@starkad67 it's a fixed choke barrel with no markings
Take it to your local gun shop, they will be able to tell you what choke it is
@@tgsoutdoors Further to the previous info I removed the heat shield. The barrel is marked modified choke or half in UK talk and pressure tested to 4 tons, 2 and a 1/2 or 3 inch magnum shells. So I'm assuming its ok for steel as smaller chokes are not recommended
This applies to the UK and EU ,not north america .
Can steel be made as soft as lead ?
Senior El Zappo No
It can, just heat it up to North of 2000 degrees Centigrade.
What steel cartridges can I put though a beretta 303 auto?? Appreciate any help
Most standard steel with the correct choke
Would Gamebore super steel 32g 3 be ok???
@@adambetts5971
Hi Adam the gamebore change from standard in 5 shot to supervisor in 3 shot 32 gram
The Ely eco wad in 5 are standard and it looks like the 3 is as well??? After reading their web site and nothing saying supervisor on package.
I've just asked Johnny if he clarify this as he mentioned during this video that it was unclear.
I've been putting the Ely 3 through my semi-automatic with 1/4 choke and it looks to be coping ok.
My 20 bore is fully choked and thanks to the idiots rolling over again to anti,, s and greens what do I use. No ammo no shooting it's sickening this sport is getting elitist and leaving us little folks behind.
I Shoot a winchester 101 ou in 20 bore. In Denmark we can not use lead , since 1996 i belive. My Winchester is 3/4 and 1/2 and i have no problems using gamebore/Kent 24 grams size 3 and 4 eur size (3,5 and 3,25 mm). I even have some 20/76 24 grams size 3 with 475ms for geese and roedeer and they have been fired without ploblems as well. We had the same isues in Denmark back then. Now i know it was for no reason, all thow from the get go, the cartridges where off wery poor quality. By law the speed must be at min. 400ms and all cartridges that are holding that speed, will kill within 30 meters, wich is the longest shot recommentet by our ethics in the hunting law. Most of the cartridges will kill at longer distances op to 50 meters depending on speed and shotsize. The size 3 with 475 ms will kill pheasants at aprox 50 meters. Tha goal now must be to get the plastic reduced :-)
So what was the verdict on the eley eco wad 3s?. Will they damage a gun without the fleur de Lys?. I can’t find anything on the box or website saying they’re a no go for standard CIP proof
They are absolutely fine
The actual CIP ruling is 4mm max - BB shot
Can I use steel shot in this old shotgun? BROWNING DESIGN Stevens “RANGER” .20 GAUGE SERIAL NO. 9456n
Does anyone produce a steel cartridge for 2 1/2" chambers in a standard nitro gun rating?
Eley?
@@tgsoutdoors just looking at your other videos now, I am looking at two different guns , one Scottish the other English but they only have 2 1/2" chambers. I don't want to commit to something that I am unable to use.
Can I safely shoot steel shot in my Akkar Churchill 612 tactical 12 gauge 2.75 inch and 3.00 inch shotgun with an 18.5 inch barrel.
This is my first time owning a shotgun. Thanks.
👍
I run a mossberg 935 with a black max turkey choke 4 5 6 shot I can shoot a dove out of a tree at 80 yards
Top banana 🍌
How much could someone expect to pay to have a shotgun bored out to 1/2 choke?
Somewhere between £75-£150 dependant on quality and finish
Only steel chokes for steel .
My beretta sporting clays never lead only chokes...
Johnny great topic .
Too bad this video doesnt apply to the american market.