Should clubs be punished for fans attacking players? | The Debate | Paul Merson & Dion Dublin
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- Опубліковано 11 бер 2019
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Paul Merson and Dion Dublin discuss the weekend's spate of pitch invasions and attacks on players by members of the crowd. How can clubs prevent this happening? What punishments should be handed down to the perpetrator? And should clubs face sanctions if their fans go on the pitch? Let us know what you think in the comments section.
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Finally Merson hit nail on head. If I’m a arsenal fan I’m going over Tottenham and running on the pitch if means 3 points taken off. Would get silly
Lol
Punishing clubs is harsh
away club hires a neutral fan and do a hit on own player so home team docks point.... it can mean all the difference for staying up or getting relegated... so punishing club isn't a solution and humans can always work around loopholes for their own advantages
Bit of a daft statement really, the FA would have to be able to prove you’re a fan of said club first. How can you be so blind to logic?
James Wagstaff how do you prove that then mr logic
Your name and seat allocation would register in the arsenal ground if you were an arsenal fan, you'd be found out quick. Lmao
Agree with Merson, point deduction would make rival fans do it pretending to be another teams supporters.
TheBigKing0 thanks to social media this would be near impossible..those who don’t have it would be investigated and found out soon enough I’m sure.. that’s just my opinion though
@@QuentinKarentino So if its a 3 month investigation and the league is already won are you going to take the title away from the champions because 3 months ago a fan run on the pitch?
DonEmu if it takes longer than a few weeks to Facebook their name or talk to relatives then I’d say individual punishment 😂 you’re right though, I’m asking a lot of our police to do these simple tasks, again though, what do I know..you make a valid point. If they somehow fail to associate which club they support, simply prison will do.
Well the Birmingham fan was a season ticket holder from 20 seasons, in such a case it is quite clear I think.
What are you saying opposition's fans are going to run on the pitch dressed in the opponents kit and deck their own team players now that's mental. Haha
I dont belive clubs should take the blame of such fools anybody who runs on to a pitch should take full blame
I understand how you think but if you are a player that is worth millions and you hear those stuarts make like 20quid a game, you have to ask yourself if your club is doing everything they can for your protection. A punch from behind like this can do so much damage. In my opinion start with suing people like that for the money clubs lose on injured player (if thats the case). But also show that you as a club do anything you can to protect your players. Just like how some hooligans storm training fields or even beat up their own players. As a player the club asks you to perform under extreme pressure and hostility and everyone is making millions out of it, so clubs should do atleast everything they can to protect their players. They have that responsibility to them. I dont think anyone would disagree that most clubs wont do everything to protect their players. Im not saying its the clubs fault!! But there is room for improvement from their side.
Yeah but how do you stop it from happening again and someone else getting hurt
The players are worth millions and are paid millions every year and anyone with an asset costing that much would not be leaving them unprotected. Let's face it this is not happening regularly so it's not a matter of the club not wanting to protect them but them not thinking that it was genuinely a risk.
Clubs have to take the blame, they are responsible for their players and have a duty of care to protect the fans also from the idiots and minority who want to cause problems. Either increase security around the pitch or provide more police presence. Either way the clubs will have to pay if they want to stop this properly.
Of course the club should be held liable. The club hires ground stewards to police the line between the stadium and the pitch. If a deranged fan encroaches the pitch, it's down to the stewards to spot the person and tackle them as quick as possible. Otherwise what are they paid to do? Sit on their little chairs watching the game on the huge screens for free and having a jolly. It's nonsense. Part of their insurance and public liability cover extends to the stewards controlling the fans and players jumping into the fans. What if that fan had a screwdriver or knife and stuck it into Jack Grealish's face or neck! Are you actually saying the club won't be held accountable for the lack of safety control they're supposed to provide? The club would be up for corporate manslaughter charge. You're attacked on a plane in-flight by another passenger unprovoked, not only are you going to sue the attacker, you're going to sue the airline as well. Very simple.
If a casino can ban you from casinos worldwide for counting cards (which isn’t illegal), why can’t people who invade the pitch be banned from all sporting arenas worldwide?
RPSPORT because how you guna single out 1 person when 25 up 60 thousand people are coming through your gates to watch football
@@aaron8968 Erm....'cos he has a seat number, maybe a season ticket. Oh & a face that can be easily identified lmfao
Jubei so he can’t get in on someone else’s name in another ground? Think about it
Azaan 101 how’s that then do share
The Birmingham fan who attacked Jack Grealish is the hamroll of the week
that's Rants and Bants mate
I can't believe I'm saying this, but Merson is spot on everything here.
The thing is that this is not primarily a football problem, but is, like racism and sexism, a wider society problem.
Unfortunately there's no easy and short term solution, and I don't think broken society can be fixed via football, but I think for a start clubs should be doing more community work, with more people involved, to develop positive relationships with fans and try to stamp out primitive hatred towards other people.
A guarantee of success would be to see genuine fans reacting at the right time when they see something like pitch invasion attempt is going on, but it's a long way away from that situation
Anyone running on the pitch should get an instant £20,000 fine, banned for life from all uk stadiums and whatever prison time is deemed necessary. Sorted.
What about last game of the season or after a big cup win? Running on & assaulting players, yes but not just for going on the pitch (which is already a crime incidentally).
@@jubei7259 if its a celebratory situation then obviously common sense needs to be part of the process as well. My main point is that a few weeks in prison and a couple of hundred fine is not going to deter anyone in reality. Likewise points deductions and closed doors just isnt an option either for obvious reasons. The penalty needs to be aimed at the individual and needs to be huge to really put a stop to it.
@@TheGoldenPig. I agree, 14 weeks is definitely not sufficient.
like everyone has £20,000 behind the sofa
@@mohammedaltaf6494 That is exactly my point. If you're ordered to pay 20k by a court order that you don't have and that will have the consequence of monthly payments for years to come. Even the tiniest of minds might be able to think....'hmmm maybe this is a really dumb thing I'm about to try and do. Maybe I won't bother'.
And anyone who actually has 20k in the bank ready to pay a fine like that probably isn't the type is moron who would run on a pitch mid game anyway.
Points deduction wouldn't solve the problem!
Also, racism like Banana being thrown at players should be treated same as this as it's racial assault as well.
Are you insane points deducted from racism chelsea would be relegated to the conference if that happened.
No, it's not racial assault (well, unless maybe it hits them lol), it's just extremely bad manners. How are we ever going to achieve equality by creating protected classes? A ban is more than sufficient imo.
Stick a moat around the pitch ..... sorted👍🏽
This is when merson comes alive lol 😂 talking about his true love Aston Villa
Am not having your name mate! Sounds made up! 🤒
Focus on prevention rather than intervention.
Adam B 👍🏼
Prevention isn't 100% . Look how much has changed over the years . These are very rare incidents nowadays because of prevention.
I think we're seeing more & more of this absolution of personal responsibility in our society. Adults are responsible for their actions, which means punishing them for their mistakes, not everybody else. None of us want to have to go back to watching football matches through cages like we had to back in the 80's.
Best i've seen from Merson. Don't always agree with him but I think he's spot on here.
Imagine hosting a talk show and getting two people who couldn't articulate themselves to save their lives on at the same time.
Fackin ell I thought I was the only one
Great debate and such a sticky situation in terms of what kind of punishment should be given to stop these idiots. Clubs should definitely not be punished imo like the boys mentioned
What would of happened if Grealish did protect himself? No doubt he’d have been sent off just for doing the natural thing
The reason people go on pitches is for Clout. And if teams have points deducted people would go on pitches just to prove that they are strong enough to harm a multi million dollar team.
asking footballers complex questions... not a good idea!
LOL
To find an in ground fix for these instances, you need to look at examples of stadia around the world where solutions have been put in place to stop it and it's worked. Black netting which comes down from the stadium roof could be a solution, as something similar is used in some South American stadia.
Dion Dublin is a great pundit.We need to see more of him.
On the point of giving the opposite team a straight win for an assualt on a pitch by a rival fan, what's to stop me, a Liverpool fan, dressing up in a man city kit, assaulting a player (not that i would) just to force a loss to City that they can't control, it's not a good system, people will abuse it
Don't usually like Merson, he was 100% here though
no way should the club be punished for some fans idiotic behaviour, ban them for life
Financially punished for sure, fines and/or empty stadium. Club must ensure the safety of the players. Imagine if people brought in guns or knives into nightclub, school or an airport. Of course they need to be held accountable.
The man should take full responsibility for his actions. He made a choice to do that no matter what. He obviously knew what he was doing
Get proper private security at the stadiums
Happened at a Stockport county game years ago
There is no place for this in football.. absolutely sickening!
I know it's a topical show so you're gonna talk about what's newsworthy, and rightly so, people need to hear about it.
On the other hand when they start talking about stewards needing to be more physically capable, won't necessarily intervene in a violent situation, not being paid much, I can just picture certain people now looking at them pointedly as a weakness not a strength. Nothing to be deterred by.
Even the constant mention of KNIFE, KNIFE, KNIFE, to somebody out there that's a trigger because now you've put it in the mind. I don't think thats over the top to say either.
For me it's a jail sentence, but make it clear to all in attendance, if you harm a player or manager you will be put behind bars.
I think because football can be a little loose with rules and morals people think they can attack somebody and only get a slap on the wrist.
Shame some people can't just enjoy a GAME of football.
Any question from another pundit :
Paul Merson:
I don’t know. I really don’t know
Paul Merson totally hit the nail on the head with this debate
Punish the INDIVIDUAL! Why should a club and 30,000 supporters be punished for the act of one or two pricks. Must add that clubs have to make their stewards more proactive to pitch invaders. The surprising thing is when the pitch was invaded I didnt see more than 1 steward chasing. Should have been minimum 3 and up to 5.
maniackolder completely agree
If they had better security than this could’ve been prevented, plain and simple
oh iyee, well you dont need better security if any at the etihad do you? stadium is empty anyway ;)
Dokkan Battle PBRD lol knew that was coming
Punish the individual, makes more sense then holding the club responsible.
Bigfoot Billbo yeah but who’s guna stop the next bloke running on and seriously hurting a player? It’s there job no one should be in danger earning money to support there familys.
@@aaron8968 Well the stewards are supposed to stop them. Punishing the individual with potential imprisonment seems like a reasonable deterrent to me.
Bigfoot Billbo stewards are just normal working people who do for abit of extra cash there students mostly and fans of the clubs. They don’t get paid alot. If you was one and you see and bloke run looking like he’s guna swing for someone you guna get in his way for little money and probably no thanks from anyone
When you can gamble on football, deducting points, or instant win for the opposite team would bring all sorts of major Problems!
Watching this nearly 2 years after the incident. And for.all the "disgust" at the time by the media and clubs, what has changed???? Nada!!
No - it should be the venues responsibly, as in, the security and staff. The club itself shouldn’t be punished for the actions of an unsolicited attack by an individual not associated by the club other than being a fan. I’m sure the staff had a debrief after this stunt to ensure they’d be more diligent in the future.
Birmingham v Villa..proper derby...end of...
in Australia its a coward punch probably 3-5 years minimum
That because of the mandatory minimum after kings cross for years.
3 to 5 Years for a single punch like the Grealish 1 with no injury or lasting damage???? Or is it for a 1 punch causing a loss of Life???? I’m pretty sure I can remember something being all over the News in Australia a few years ago about reforming sentencing for 1 punch man slaughters….
Re: Him being "cheered by 20,000" as he was dragged off by stewards.
Seems to be total misinformation. Some cheering at the stewards for catching & removing him, some in disbelief at what they'd seen - stunned silence. I have no connection to either club, this is what I have seen from Birmingham fans at the game
They need a alarm to warn players about pitch invaders
I feel as though it's the home teams responsiblity to protect the players on the pitch. They failed to do this, so their next game should be played behind closed doors and as a fine all season tickets holders are remeimbursed by the club for their ticket price. This ensures that the club is punished for failing to protect the players and fans are heald accountable to for allowing another fan to get on the pitch. If a fan sees someone attempting to get on the pitch they should aim to prevent them from doing so
You don't need big high fences to stop people.
A 2ft high and maybe 2-3ft wide fence, with some sort of retractable hooks or spikes, designed the right way, would be enough to get someone tangled up long enough for the stewards to drag them away. Plus it'd be fun to watch.. Especially if they were electrified.
I like this! lol
This isn't a good idea actually 😂💡
Some stands etc are so close to the pitch it wouldn't be possible to keep the players safe from running into it.
@@kwl189 To be honest I'd prefer to run into something like this than to fall down that big drop at Old Trafford.
But I'm sure they could make it, at least, slightly safe on the player's side. For example a cushioned bar at waist height in front of it.
@@JoeBob79569 there's the cost of actually building this kind of structure. Not all clubs would be happy to pay that out. Some dare I say it wouldn't be able to. Yeah I do not like the drops at OT at all. I've been there so many times and it's something I constantly pick out. It's dangerous for the players if they speed off the touchline. They'll smack into the barriers at the end of the drop.
"The zulus are in you've got 10 minutes to leave"...
Who's city is it?
😏
The City is blue and always will be no matter what the village idiots think.
Wait, if a fan runs onto the field to attack a player and the player _defends_ themselves *the player gets banned!?*
they can get sent off. tho i've seen it happen and the player not get in any trouble. so who knows.
I never thought i'd agree with Merson but the way he stood up for people who work at these clubs, i have a newfound respect for him
The sooner people get it into their heads that there aren't special laws for football the better.
The bloke was jailed for the assault. Pitch invasion is trespassing at best and would get a fine at most.
Stopping people getting on the pitch is the football club's responsibility. Protecting the players is the football club's responsibility.
Punishing people who break THE law is the responsibility of the judicial system.
Each Prem and Champ club should just employ a security firm to prevent this stuff working with the stewards. If someone goes on its on the security firm.
"Dont punish working class people",...
Exactly u snobs
I don't get why clubs should be punished for what idiots do!!
I think there should only be consequences as harsh as this if 1. These situations happen more than once at a club and 2. After the first incident(s) the club doesn't take the necessary measures to increase security pitch side
Change the design of hoarding boards so that fans can not jump over then. Make them v shaped or something so there is a gap within them and whenever someone tries to run on the pitch they had to go through that depression which would give stewards time to contain.
Cheers Geoff
8 months prison & life ban
2 games behind close doors at St Andrews
Also ban media for writing and reporting about it on shows like this.
Just a simple statement from the club on their website.
Sky sports give funding to the club for stuff like this to be saod
These players are worth millions surely there should be much higher security at football stadiums.
Regardless of what club they play for and how much they are valued at , they are human at the end of the day and should not be targeted because of hatred
Fine the club?. By that same logic if someone gets punched on the bus then the bus company should get fined, right?
Clubs shouldn't be Punished for the actions of 'idiots'. If clubs do start being punished, this opens up the opportunity for 'Rivals' to abuse the system - as Merson says. I think that clubs should be able to make punishments - ban the person for life etc as a way to deter others and 'harsher' prison sentences - not punish a Club for the action of 1 idiot.
The punishments need to be harsh - both from the club and police - as a means to deter individuals. If they assault a player, that should be treated as an assault - and a tough sentence as its unprovoked assault...
Both of them
We don't know
I don't know
This and that
Hold on you guys get paid to express your veiw
That was tedious to listen to.
I'm sorry to say this but saying any fan who steps on the pitch should automatically go to prison is idiotic.
Apart from issues as to whether prison, especially short term sentences, does anything to rehabilitate offenders and other legal issues; what happens when you have a pitch invasion after a team is promoted or wins a title (as alluded to by Dion Dublin)? Would we then have to imprison thousands of fans?
Dion, the head-butter, is an idiot.
why not just say give people running on the pitch a lifetime ban?
Merson is a bit crazy, but he is definitely the most entertaining
Pay for security and make a second barrier about 5 foot high so then the stewards are aware and get more time to stop the fan.
Watching this game with a few friends and when this pleb rab on the pitch. I remember everything going slightly reddish and in slow motion.
We were right behind it.
Teams fanatical fans would be paying people to take a 14 week prison sentence to run on pitch of a rival team posing as that rival teams fan , who then gets a 3 point deduction penalty and lose league title etc .
How about each club having to properly hire (with a decent wage) and train them rather than volunteers/low payed/untrained stewards. Its on the clubs to keep there stadiums as safe as possible and yet the one place they should invest money in protecting the players they are lack luster. lets get these boys paid and trained.
I remember watching a Real Madrid vs Juventus game and there was like 3-4 pitch invasions.
During the full 90 minute match.
One of the persons whom I knew personally.
He didn’t even go to jail? WTF lol
It's not necessarily a crime in Spain/Italy
love the matching outfit fellas
The authorities may decide whatever they think right, but please don't move the spectators away from the players.
Preventive security should be more vigilant.
We do it somewhat successfully with huge crowds for cricket matches in India.
Give 3 yr mandatory prison sentences if they go on to the pitch to cause harm , if they just go on to "streak" for example life ban and a year in jail , it may seem excessive but it will stop it
I honestly think fences is the only solution. I genuinely wouldn't have any problem going to my teams stadium to cheer them on and seeing a fence put up, unless your in the first few rows it doesn't make a massive difference anyway, plus not only does it stop fans running on to the pitch, it stops bottles,coins,bananas or whatever else those idiots like throwing at the players getting near them, for the good of the game it's the best viable option. The only downside is not being able to run on and celebrate the result with your team at the end but that's just something you deal with, hug the guy next to you if it's that important.
The FA and FIFA should lobby to lawmakers about imposing security clearances. In order to be on the pitch, you need a clearance. That way they could impose stricter punishments for anyone who comes on to the pitch just like they would be for trespassing in high security areas all over the world.
Paul was spot on today.
Talking about the Stewards, a Birmingham City Steward also attacked Jack Grealish from behind by kicking him after Jack jumped into the ground to celebrate his goal with the Villa fans, the Police arrested the Steward and led him away, he was later dismissed by the Club.
Shouldn't of jumped in the crowd
Two wrongs don't make a right.
@@JohnSmith-fr7js i no but if you step over the line it's a yellow card lol I'm not condoning both actions either cos both were just stupid
It is very easy to avoid a match ban lol, what you should do is enforce a fine and jail time on the individual
Paul merson best ever quote “I don’t know”
i’m glad grealish scored the winner, almost makes the guys actions of running on the pitch worthless and i hope the pitch invader sees the fact that what he did was worthless
First of all the security personals or staff who were in charge of ground security should b fired ASAP.
If someone wants to get in a pitch enough they will get on. The ratio of stewards to fans is not enough to stop it
Security needs to improve,end of
I pretty sure you could suggest nuking the entire world as a punishment and Merse would be like 'no that's crazy' as Geoff would say 'but it would be enough of a deterrent'.
If crippling fines were enforceable, that could be a deterrent
10 minutes... drink up... and your out hahahahha
he said alright ill have 3 more. dozzy vile tosser.
Belated comment: Going into an area you know your not allowed into like behind a shop counter technically changes things from theft to burglary so if you go onto pitch to assault someone then it's also burglary which can have higher sentencing. Just a thought.
Yes they should be!
Punished for something we all wish we could do but don't actually have the balls to do it ... and the ones that do are treated as hooligans ...
i say if we just put sniper towers up an just pick off anyone running on the pitch we'd have no issues.
I was there, Grealish ran backwards into his fist , diving twerp he is
"Ran backwards into his punch"
I find that funny because he didn't see the fella to begin with
Besides nothing wrong with diving you gotta get the 3 points
Ban for life smh 🤦♂️ and he said every club
“Romell, if you’ve got a prevention, you don’t need a solution”
I think the security needs to be increased/tightened. You can't close the stadium or stop the fans from watching the football games. No one should have the audacity to do what that nut did.
It's not rocket science, educate the players to respond i.e warn each other, run away. And have 6 proper security guards that come in from all directions to grab him.
I'm really surprised they didn't mention the clear culprit in many sports arena incidents involving wild fans: alcohol. If alcohol was not sold at sporting events and not allowed outside the grounds and clearly drunken people not allowed in the grounds, so many of these would not happen at all and the stands would still be just as packed as they are today. What percent chance do you all think that the guy that punched Grealish was drunk? One Hundred percent. If he wasn't drunk on stadium sold alcohol, or allowed in the grounds while already drunk, would this have happened? Probably not
They strike on a good point... the tribalism associated is the difficulty... this guy did it for admiration and was cheered by thousands as he was removed. He was probably encouraged too.
The best way to discourage this is to alienate individuals who do this from their tribe. That means punishment against the club. That will make an individual doing this a 'bad guy' from not only the media and players, but also from his own tribe - The individual will essentially be discouraged and at risk of being an outcast amomg their own people. That is the best deterrent. FACT.
Needs closed doors or points deduction. Not fair on the club, but is the best chance at stopping this other than putting up fences.
The individual also needs serious repercussions too of course.
i disagree
The steward and fan reaction reflect the club imo, they failed to employ competent security and it’s a miracle there were no sharp objects in his hand. Awful day for football that was, should just come down hard on the individuals involved, those who cheered have created enough social backlash and the world knows how petty those fans are, that’s enough I’d say, stupid to assume they’d get home and regret cheering though, social media got even worse from the midlands clubs.
array s indeed man, the actions of that one though was disgusting, just shows the bitterness streaming through their veins and they shouldn’t be allowed into the stadium again.
Tennis player Monica Seles was #1 player and during a match a german spectator stabbed her in the back close to her spine .
It should be a life ban from going to all games and other charges depending on what he/she does on the pitch for the person who ran on and a fine for the club for allowing it to happen, points should not be deducted
Points deductions would be stupid, what then happens last day of the season when in a title deciding match, we have someone pretend to be a fan of the oppo team just to lose them 3 points & secure their team the title? Madness.
Anyone goes on pitch it's stewards faults. Not forgetting you get searched at most grounds and they never do it properly
Agreed when I got to the villa half the stewards are watching the game not the crowd
Fans that aim to cause harm to other players, refs etc shouldn't be called "fans". Real fans watch and support their team from the terraces or watching the game on the TV. These "fans" are anti football and should be fined heavily banned from ALL football venues - home and abroad and given a lengthy prison sentence. We should be making an example of these people to deter others from following in the footsteps of these "fans".
What a stupid question
Stop selling so much beer to everyone.
TimBee100 he wasn’t drunk
Just simple, never allowed back to the ground or any other Premier League grounds.