I Think CPF Enhanced Retirement Sum (ERS) Is Over-rated...
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- Опубліковано 30 лип 2024
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0:00 Introduction
0:30 Why people have built up CPF
3:25 Josh Tan Finance summit
3:55 Change in advice to CPF LIFE ERS
6:35 CPF life annuity pool
7:58 Early retirement
10:25 Story of Paul semi-retirement
#cpf #retirement #retire #retirementplanning #retireearly
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Chapter 1: The Black Swan Event you must know
I've realised what is being sold now to banking customers and it's a concerning trend building.
In this chapter, I'd reveal it to you so that you understand the potential risk coming...
Chapter 2: Newest REIT updates and where are opportunities!
You'd learn in this chapter what REITs I'm eyeing and how I'd weather this storm successfully!
Chapter 3: The NEW savings world!
If you are planning for retirement, this chapter is highly valuable!
Condensing all the lessons and new strategies for 2024 for you!
Chapter 4: Special Q&A session
Discussing all the burning questions you have on what to invest and how to approach loans.
🌟 Get your access now: jtinvestacademy.thinkific.com/courses/JTFS
this type of video always get the mind thinking about financial planning.
More than often, if were to address the less well-to-do scenario, it is more likely about juggling with BRS & FRS, or even BRS itself can be met or not. Those that considering FRS & ERS, they are quite well-to-do already and it is just another alternative how to park the resources only, livelihood is not an issue.
Thx Josh, the Paul story is really good!
Thank you. Happy to impact
Very financially technical, which I am not, but good.
I like this episode. You provided some things for us to think carefully. Elsewhere we cannot find any useful information even from the board. I guess end of the day, they still want to lock our money inside? (Really care for us)
Thank you.
Sometimes best advice can change. Back in 2020 4% guaranteed is definitely superior. Just not in todays climate already
Josh I fully agree with your analysis! I knew one lady she told me she transferred ALL her OA to SA to earn the 4% interest. However she doesn’t has a flat yet because she is lacking of financial to buy a flat !! I kept ALL my OA till age 48 even though I had not fulfilled my FRS in SA. Once I had fully paid down my 2 houses last two years I did a VHR and now fulfilled my SA to FRS. Passive income is my rental. Will do a cash top up to ERS when turn 55! Do a SA shielding also …
🙏 happy for you :)
No more SA shielding after the recent budget announcement 😢
@@KrishnanV9Precisely
If you believe you can live beyond 85 years old, go for ERS. However, if you end at 75 years old, then you just have done your last national service to make others' live a little better. So, there is really no right or wrong to this.
actually
My total CPF interest since 2009 till last year, was more than FRS for this year. With SA shielding on June, used cash to top up RA to ERS, I am a happy old man who wish to get retrench from my current job.❤
Happy for you :)
Thank you for your insightful video. I did had a plan to top up the ERS however liquidity is important for a middle age person like me who just got retrenched. But that also means a delay in payout until i get a job which can allow me to meet the minimum sum. Like the 'Black Swan' - we will never know when our priorities and needs change.
🙏 share the video to someone who should hear too
For ppl like me 59 years old ..low income ..cannot even draw out 10 or 15k to release or lessen my family financial stress...at least let us draw out maybe 10% of our hardearn cpf money to enjoy right ? Is good to have cpf but systems for drawing out is sucks for many like me maybe ..still need work 12 hours aday...
Take care take care 🙏
More importantly, please take good care of your health. With good health, you will attract greater financial wealth.
Fully agree
If interest rates continue to rise, SA/RA interest will also rise since they're based on the 12 month average 10Y SGS bonds + 1%, subject to a floor rate of 4%.
The short term rate is rising faster than long term rate at this moment
hi,
thanks for the info.
i was wondering, is it possible to use CPF OA to pay the monthly mortgage ? or it can only be used to pay down payment of the property?
Certainly can
Can you do a basic start up how to buy Singapore Savings Bonds for dummies?
3min guide here ua-cam.com/video/HDL88ewqSnM/v-deo.htmlsi=2v7FcdEGZqML2oRP
Ps: one of my first few videos when I started the channel here 4years ago :)
Hi boss, latest T-bills on 8th Nov ,yield drop to 3.75% . I buy $10k cash while my wife buy $50k Cpf OA. Hope in next Jan, Feb tranche of SSB can be hover above 3% . I intend to draw out some surplus OA after i set aside FRS . Every 6 mths, collect some pocket $ . I doubt Sgp T-bills can hit 5% in next yr . If so , USA rate will be above 7% . Sure kena recession. My other surplus OA will be standby to buy OCBC, Keppel if Recession datang . Recently , my wife n i buy some keppel reit at $0.795 & Mpact at $1.31( cash n cpf) . Price much cheaper than Covid lockdown.
Hi Vincent, I know the latest yield, this was prepared before that thats why.
OA withdrawal only after SA is 0 k do note.
Agreed.
But beyond your point on opportunity cost in this high yield environment, I have this thought.
Huge CPF RA supporter but mainly to FRS at the most.
If you have basic complementary investments, have shielding amount and relatively simple financial knowledge, you always have the option to top up above FRS with cash if your BASE EXPENSES after 65 require the stability.
If FRS already meets your core needs, having assets you can liquidate one way or another for specific larger sum needs is important.
Personal circumstances matter of course. For those who are relatively late to any investment skills or capacity, relying of stable low return CPFRA will be the prudent choice as this cohort doesn’t have much to runway or cash to grow and iron out volatility.
If you’re under 45, or 35 it’s a totally different story.
Add variables like dependents, loans, etc. nothing is a no-brainer
Topping up to ERS can be anytime from 55-65 yes but the less compounding years will yield a lower per month amount. Something explained in FS2023 (finance summit)
What happens if you have surplus in the ERS after hitting 65? Are you forced to withdraw all the surplus or you can keep it there and withdraw it anytime?
The terms has error. ERS is the limit you can top up to RA. There wont be a surplus. It will be calculated as your monthly amount for withdrawal
Surplus in CPFOA and SA after age55 can sit there however long you like k dun worry =)
Hi Josh, I have recently invested my OA in technology etf funds giving average about 10 percent since inception. I would love if you talk more on that as well. I have settled my house so I am planning the following:
- invest OA to beat the 2.5 percent and draw the gain much in the later years.
- I will probably transfer the gains to SA to meet FRS much faster.
What do you think and what are the risk if foresee. ?
Better to avoid making an investment decision based on 10% per annum since inception.
IF it’s overvalued now, forward returns will be lower?
@@joshconsultancy thanks as always. Good interesting point
Recently I’m looking at cpf videos etc..
I’m self employed will little cpf coming bto (dec/Jan)will be fully paid in cash and about 35k cpf wife n husban combined
I’m looking to clear my accrued interest and even getting to full retirement sum.. in the next 5yrs.. but just realise with 8k VC and 15,300 SRS there a cap to how much I could put in too..
I’m thinking should I just look at covercall etc even with 30% tax it’s still paying dividends pretty well.
Or even all in our local banks stocks the yield still better then cpf 4% and its liquid
Investment is different from guaranteed returns from tax relief and CPF interest.
Ensure the cashflow is comfortable first before going for the latter k. Invest safely
Josh, what is the effective rate for CPF Life annuity.? The FRS is locked in RA for 10 years and monthly payouts start at 65.
Cannot measure by IRR because we dun know when die/termination of return
See it as possibly he best annuity possibly in market. But cannot surrender out unlike a private annuity
Just curious whether there is OAshielding to use cash for RA?
There is actually but i think its a step too far. Cash can generate guaranteed more than 2.5% now in SS and T-bills
At age 55 in 2024 (beside 205K parked in RA) how can the other 50K (255K minus 205K - 50K) be parked at SA when new rule already as SA no amount can no longer stay in SA. But your explanation seems a bit confused when you said 50K become SA Shielding@@joshconsultancy
@@mikeang5404This video was created before the latest announced changes in CPF SA.
If Paul wants to take out the whole 50k from special accout as cash for own expenses after committed to the FRS of 205K, is it ok to do that?
Yes
hi , if taxes is 2k how much should i top up in sa ? tyvm
Depends if you are ok to lock up amounts in SA. Max for tax relief is $8k
With SA shielding gone, I really need to look for alternative passive income.
Dividend income :)
I am shielding my SA, enhanced RA at 55 + standard at 65. Plus all the fat dividends I get from my stock portfolio , can’t finish my monthly payout when I retire 😂
Happy for you =)
@@joshconsultancy yes I am so happy for myself as I am doing this in December . I am also taking out all my OA after RA is done and then sell the bond to put back to SA. Years of buying DBS and planning for retirement is coming to reality . So happy and excited at the future of abundant free cash flow
Hi Josh, can u confirm if a person RA interests will also be refunded to him if he dies before 65?
I believe so. Do double confirm with CPF as always safer
So how come it's good when it is not liquid?
In previous years 4% guaranteed was clearly the best
I saw the payout will be 20 years from 65 years old, what happened after that? no more retirement fund?
Cpf life is lifelong payout 👌🏻
@@joshconsultancy oh ok, thanks Josh. but in the event of bequest. they will prorated based on 20years as a premium and refund to our family, right? after that, nothing left?
Hi Josh, with the latest update to CPF (closure of SA from age 55) and if we have enough in SA for ERS. Is it a good idea to top up our RA to ERS? If not, what are your thoughts? Thank you
Hi, no answer fits all, it depends on whether you need the flexibility and how much surplus cash
Thank you for replying, appreciate it. Follow up to the question. If purely looking from numbers point of view, is it worthwhile to top up RA to ERS? Not very sure how to do the calculations…
When I reached 55 a few years ago, I opted for ERS, which was to have a payout of $2K+ per month at 65 and beyond. Every year after that, I see that the ERS amount increases and can be top up. If I do not top up further, will my payout be still above the 2K+? or if I top up each year, how much will my payout increase to when I am 65?
Hi, the figures are estimates and best to check w CPF.
In theory, if you further top up every year, your monthly amounts will become slightly above the $2k/m range. Hope it answers k
Using the example of Mr Paul as explained at time 9:06, since Paul OA+SA is already more than his prevailing FRS of $205.8k and Josh is also advocating to meet this FRS (and hence, the balance of $50k is left in the SA), there is effectively no SA Shielding for the $50k. This will happen as a default. You must remember that topping up to ERS is voluntary, not compulsory and hence there is no need to "shield" amounts above FRS.
Moreover, I'm not sure that it's right to promote this concept of "putting more towards your future means less money today" as mentioned in time 8:25, especially for those of lower income group. This idea of early retirement and using your CPF to fund that should be thought through very carefully.
CPF interest rate while stable for many years is subject to change. Also cpf life payout at 65 is also subject to change (may potentially be revised to 67 ,70). SRS drawdown age increased in 2022.
Valid point
Wrong
I don’t think CPF life payout date has changed. 55yr old as the date for CPF withdrawal post RA also have not changed. SRS is not CPF scheme btw.
Thanks Josh. Very useful session.
Thank you for the high praise Justin
lets see if I understand correctly, if I have full ERS $308k this year, than I should receive an estimated $2450 in 2044
With cost of living up and up for 10 more years, will that be enough?
Enough or not really depends. Escalating plan has a 2%pa increment but starts at a lower base
o
Unfortunately, if inflation keeps getting crazier + GST keeps increasing also, ERS may become the "de-facto standard" for a retirement safety net
It already inflates at 3.5%pa 👌
This is all talks of money for all sporeans including me and of course more was never enough,64 going 65 for me and I enjoy listening to their talks but I know making a wrong think right move is actually what many is doing after all is your money so for me que sera sera😂😊
CPF IS BAD. for those SINGLE who foresee early dealth. They dont ever smell their own full sum before they pass on . They dont have anyone to nominee. no family.
even if cpf high interest. however it is locked up.
Second, it is easy to get return slight below 4% . However, this allow us to have the flexiblity to invest and withdraw.
CPF is good for the government to build wealth for the country.
Definitely NOT for those who want Early retirement. There is no right or wrong. No one policy will fit all needs. Those who early retirement and believe in short life. CPF is not the place to park your money
Hey Josh, with the declining population (low birthrates), it slowly seem that CPF LIFE payout is likely to reduce or be further delayed. Additionally, potential increased taxation to finance social/healthcare benefits to the increasing ageing population. Not sure if this outlook seems fair or should we just invest instead in dividend paying assets at 4-5% as compared to topping up CPF?
The payout may be determined by many other factors such as longevity? Would still suggest relying on the projections from cpf
I am 63. Is it better to withdraw my cpf at 65 or wait till 70?
Need to have more context
For cpf life, the monthly payout when one hits 65 will be from the principal amount he/she puts in at 55 at the start. This will go on for 10 years until the amount hits zero. By then, if the person is still alive, the monthly payout will be from a central pool of money generated from the interest accumulated over 10 years of all cpf life members. In theory, cpf life is only financially beneficial if a person lives beyond 75 yrs old. If not, it is a terrible investment.
Think there could be errors. Bequest (death) amount doesnt hit zero until age80
Wow this is new info. Think I better top up to meet my FRS in that case..turning 55 this year 😢
Good luck to you all on speculating stocks and funds, you might have made some 10% profit before from your baby step investment and think you’re Warren buffet already. But Imma stick to my CPF SA 😊already hit FRS~
not speculating. The tone should change k
I will withdraw all my CPF balance when I reach 55, pledge my flat and just leave behind BRS. I will use the proceeds to buy DBS and enjoy roughly 9% (5% Div + 4% long term capital growth). Any right minded member should do this than to let your hard earn monies rot @ 4% which cannot beat inflation. If DBS is deem to risky to invest, then nothing in SG is investable.
DBS so far is good but its worth remembering that OUB had to merge with UOB back then
@@joshconsultancy did OUB+UOB erode shareholder equity? DBS + OCBC looming? Whatever the hallucinations, one need to do justice to our hard earn monies. As Singaporeans we served more than our due providing more than 30years of cheap source of credit for our Gahmen to punt and build up our national reserve which could have otherwise translate into bigger nest eggs for ourselves.
Ssb is non compounding
Simply don’t consume the coupon and invest the coupon into something.
Why is CPF doing these? : Raising contribution rate. Asking people to work as long as possible. Asking people top up as much $$ into CPF. Placing ads to attract top-up. Delaying the payout. Is CPF so nice ? Is thing so simple ? What do you think ?
Let’s not speculate 🙏
This video aged well
Those with only FRS CPF life n no saving & cannot save, cannot fully retire
yes indeed. CPF LIFE pays from age65
My mortgage now is 4.5%. Do you recommend the following steps to do early partial repayment for peace of mind?
1) Fully emptying OA (2.5% yield) to do early repayment?
2) Selling all of USD Fullerton A fund (5.3% yield)
Hi I think (1) is easily justifiable 👌
Thud us Bellshill, think they want to kill the golden goose,lol
For people like me who have been investing for 25yrs, i would leave the least in CPF.
Why?
I utilised all my OA for properties and never did any transfer to SA even though I had not fulfilled FRS at the age of 48!
Excellent points you have raised esp the example of semi-retirement and drawing down the SA monthly👍
ERS has its benefits, but it's not the best solution for all, especially for those who are a bit more financially savvy and can better plan their cash flow through their golden years.
Thank you for the high praise
a leopard will never change its spot lah. just return all our CPF $$ when we turn 55. Other $$ retention plans must b opinion only n not by law. When they introduced the old system, I had warned others that it never end there. Anyway, pl blame ourselves for voted the same cradle of ppl into the parliament including the president 😂😂😂
Goodbye sa shielding. The loop has closed
Seen it no worries. Stay tuned, next episode on it
its almost a certainty that Fed is done hiking and hence SG interest rates have peaked.
a peak interest of 3.34% SSB and SG T bill of 4.1% or so is frankly quite pathetic compared to SA's 4% over the past 3 decades...
treat the SA balance as the bond component of a person's assets.
then the rest of the assets go for equities and properties.
for RA, I think its inferior compared to SA for those above 55 yo since both yields the same interest rate
As long as we tap withdraw 4% interest + maybe 2% SA balance drawdown, SA acts the same way as RA ie annuity that covers longevity risk. But SA has added benefit of flexible withdrawals anytime and any amount.
SSB and T-bills are liquid. The difference is huge for someone younger
Also a valuable part of bond component of a persons assets k
Exactly. Shield as much into SA as possible. Both earn same rates. If one so chooses later on.... can always take from SA and put into CPF Life. But once the shielding window is gone... its gone for good
But ssb is not compounded
Simply reinvest the coupon into another investment if you'd like to compound simple returns
SA 4%? No matter how much money is in there? E.g. 120K
Yes
Thx
@@joshconsultancyFor above 55yo, the 5% and 6% for first 60K is for OA (first 40K), then SA (20k)? Or it is for RA? Where does these 5% and 6% applicable to? Thanks
@@joshconsultancy No cap at all.....?
And now SA will vanish for 55 and above....
Unfortunately. I’ve a new episode, u seen it
Maybe only "LOO LOO" have 1 million in CPF (1M65), of course nice but mainly for top high income earners who quit at 50 and become UA-camr.
i guess 70-80% is still paying housing loan until late 55-60s transferring to SA is only for those to catch up their RA sum. Enough can already, not everyone live so long.....
Oh there are some with $1m in CPF. Smash the SUBS and stay tuned, there will be story on one coming up
SA is 4% forever. I think your comments about using Tbills is flawed. You cannot predict interest rates at all. Let alone the next decades to come.
It’s not. The window for SA is there for u to join anytime in future
That’s correct but perhaps it’s just me that think it’s not clear. Anyway, I think instead of fiddling around Tbills and SA, I think most people would be better off just using SA as early as possible. That way works as they cannot move the money anymore.
No need to do cpf top up for kids, they need to learn how to fish and survive on their own, if not next time their kids how?
They need to work and will contribute to cpf on their own too
Seems like nothing is forever… sigh😞