What haunts me the most is why it took so long for anyone from the authorities (for example, the schools) to notice that Heather West hadn't been seen for years.
@@tbac2432 Think of the accuracy limiting factors in the programs, and databases that would have been the tools available to source a number, I would suggest that we have plenty more of the serial killer variety than any number made public 🙈🙉🙊💩👤👮👥📈📉🎪🎬✂🎥🌃🌉🎣🔩🎲🌎🌎🌏🌍🌍🌐
Maria Kelly Things were different back then with schools alerting social services to absences, the thing now is that they alert SS over every bloody thing, it’s unreal.
Really feel for Caroline Roberts not only did she survive these horrors, but she bravely fought cancer later too. I hope she's found peace where ever her soul is now
My parents used to live 2 doors down from Fred West in Gloucester and my dad once borrowed a ladder off him and had him round for a cup of tea. Fred also helped my mum change her car tyre as well in the pouring rain once. Both my mum and dad say that he seemed like the nicest bloke you'll ever meet, which makes it all the more surprising. My dad still has a photo of him and Fred together at a neighbours BBQ in the mid 80s. They were never friends or anything, just neighbours. Talk about chilling.
Their 'niceness' is part of the 'glib' nature of a psychopath. They watch you and determine how best to 'play' you, whether it's just to get your approval, or to trap you for whatever they want to do. They are very good at what they do.
I love how documentaries about male killers always say: 'he was handsome, charming..alluring... you wouldn't suspect that he could hurt a fly.........' and then they proceed to show a picture of the guy and he looks like a crackhead thumb.
@@bradhurst6834 Attractiveness is subjective though. For example, I am personally repulsed by Kim Kardashian, and yet she's lauded as an insanely hot woman by millions of people. For her to be objectively attractive, you would need to 'prove' my stance to be wrong. And it has everything to do with taste. The notion that someone couldn't truthfully look at that photograph and feel that there's nothing physically remarkable about him is ludicrous.
I get tears in my eyes when I see that picture of little Sharmain. She is the sweetest little angel with the red sweater and her front tooth missing. I can’t imagine Rose hurting that tiny little baby. It just makes me sick to think about it.
It's astounding and infuriating to me how our present culture turns these super-creeps into a form of anti-hero. It's disgusting. It's like we're collectively saying, "Hey, guys and gals become a serial killer, a serial rapist, a serial killer pedophile rapist and we'll give you your own show!! How's that for a deal?"
@@banedon8087 simply because something isn't happening in your area doesn't mean it isn't common. Also, just because you don't see it or hear about it frequently doesn't mean it isn't happening. Most abuse like that is kept secret, at least for a period of time.
is it ? why is it common you mean to say its near normal? listen why do these stupid people have children to interfere with them..i hope to god it isnt.common and if it is..those.breeders.should be sterilised or worse..sorry but if its common well lets be casual and say.hey.ho.awww.cute dont lets upset daddy and mummys climax its common aaah
It's astounding and infuriating to me how our present culture turns these super-creeps into a form of anti-hero. It's disgusting. It's like we're collectively saying, "Hey, guys and gals become a serial killer, a serial rapist, a serial killer pedophile rapist and we'll give you your own show!! How's that for a deal?"
It’s bizarre how similar Fred and Rose’s childhoods were . It’s so creepy and disgusting that more then one persons family was as deprived and horrible as Fred’s . I wonder how many more families like theirs there are out there, that haven’t been caught yet..😞
@@spencer23dollars34 In essence Psychopath and Sociopath are almost the same thing, except that you are born Psychopath (genetically inherent) and Sociopathy is adaptive disorder which is almost the same think (logically speaking, don't know about internals of the brain).
She was right about him and had she not set up with him later I do not believe we would know her name . Fred was a killer whwn they met . Abused women have a look in their eye that abusers recognize and zero in on . She was groomed . Over time she became the controller .
People don't realize how truly damaging a nuclear an extended multi generation incestuous, brutal, violent family is. The things that you have to endure, to try to survive, to make sense of life. The warping of a person, the addictions and eating disorders. Being continually a victim or an offender. If you suspect anyone being abused, please inform the authorities. We can pass it back instead of passing it on.
even though she tries to smile her eyes never lie. Heather got it the worst I believe and thats why was traumatised to the point she coudlnt even function
@@Jerseybytes2 she is a lovely lady but with scars. I believe shes not talking with her own daughter because of Rosemary. Her daughter wants to cut all ties with Rosemary but Anne Marie still talks to Rose.
The fact they abused their own children as brutally as strangers and themselves were abused mixed with low IQs and a society that preferred to look the other way and where authorities seemed to value property more than human life - a perfect storm. RIP all their victims 🥀
I’ve noticed while researching and watching these documentaries that something a lot of these serial killers have in common is that a lot of them have had some sort of head injury during childhood, and a lot of the time were also abused during childhood. The head injuries seem more common though. Just an interesting observation I made, I’m sure others have seen this connection as well.
Sarah Catherine , yes, it’s known that’s its usually a combination of genetics, sometimes child abuse, and sometimes head injuries that create serial killers.
I saw something one time of a study done on some very violent prisoners in the U.S. Many showed damage to their brains on scans. Sorry this is so vague. But I've never forgotten the gist of the study.
Apparently Hitler turned into... Hitler when he was fighting in ww1. He got gas attacked and they think the gas damaged his brain and made him into what we know now.
Richard Ramirez was knocked unconscious and almost died on multiple occasions before he was six years old and as a result "later developed temporal lobe epilepsy, aggressivity and hypersexuality" His psychiatrist said because of this he was a made psychopath and not a born psychopath. I found that on Wikipedia if anyone wants to read more.
Justin..yes.i agree.these two stand out from other murderers and i have read and watched a lot about them.the thing that interests me is how all the while they carried on a supposedly.normal family life.also there is the aspect of it that no one else in the house knew...or did they?it is a fascinating case.
I live literally down the road from where this took place, luckily not at the same time but yeah feels weird walking on that path knowing what happened.
My partner actually lived in Gloucester as a kid when this was happening, said that the city was in chaos around the time all of this came to light, but that people certainly knew the Wests weren't 'right'. Some of the local police force actually used to visit Rose for her services. :/ Sickening really.
It's astounding and infuriating to me how our present culture turns these super-creeps into a form of anti-hero. It's disgusting. It's like we're collectively saying, "Hey, guys and gals become a serial killer, a serial rapist, a serial killer pedophile rapist and we'll give you your own show!! How's that for a deal?"
I am grateful for documentaries like this because it educates the public what people can do. Then they hopefully become more cautious and pay attention to warning signs. Back when West was doing this, people never even considered psychopathic murderers. Sadly, we HAVE to know these things and teach others. Stay up-to-date and be safe.
Unfortunately, Fred and Rose are not alone, I believe that even now, somewhere in this country, more people are being abused and murdered by similar people like the Wests, we just haven't found them yet.
you can't tell by looks alone. The guy you all talk about and stay away from could be the most kind gentle soul you would have met, while someone charming and appealing could be waiting to kill you. Its just impossible to tell by looks
Exactly! We’re looking at this with the benefit of hindsight. When you’re looking at a still photo, maybe it does look creepy. But if you met these people, it’s likely that they’d appear as normal as anyone else.
I had read, in one of the articles, that Rose was infuriated by Charmaine's head-strong attitude and vehement denial at calling her mummy. She was so defiant she didn't even cry on getting beatings and punishments while Anne Marie would stand right there shedding silent tears watching the ordeal of her sister. Charmaine believed up till very end that Rina will come and take her away.
@Mister Physics Who shamed anyone? You rediculous fool! I merely comment on the facts of his frontal lobe injury. Go research the functions of the frontal lobe. Then you may understand just why, coupled with a very low IQ, he had these behaviours. You are incorrect in saying that the brain injury causation was adults. He was involved in a nasty biking accident. Resulting in disfiguring facial injuries and FRONTAL LOBE damage. Open a book for the first time in your argumentative sad life.
Eww his mugshot gives me creeps. I remember being a kid and seeing the news and realising what he had done....was so shocking and depraved. Their poor kids.
Authorities will always claim that these criminals were/are so "charming, cunning, smart" etc to make excuses for their lack of action and downright uselessness.
I had a cousin who sadly didn't survive more than a few days after being born. His funeral happened to be the same time and place as Fred West's (the crematorium has 2 chapels). Always found it haunting to have even a loose connection with such an evil man
I live a few roads away from this house. It's been knocked down and now stands as a walkway, but each time I pass it, I take a moment and a deep breath. It's an odd sight, knowing that the patches of grass and pavement there once held such evil things. I hope there is some peace now for these brave women.
my mum used to teach basic maths and english to adults and taught him maths for a while at a centre in cheltenham, just next to gloucester. as someone who’s been raised in gloucester i know loads of people who have parents and grandparents who knew fred and rose but didn’t suspect a thing, really scary to think about
Paul Bernardo and his wife, Carla Homolka, the notorious serial killers in Canada also chopped off parts of their victims before killing them . Bernardo is still in prison but Homolka is free, married and has a family of her own. She ratted on him and got a plea bargain.
Yes, I agree that people are not born killers. They act on their desires more and more in essence jading then killing their birth conscience. People CHOOSE to become wicked. They are able to stop the progression but they don't want to. I would say all of us did something bad in our life and made the choice to not do it again. (James 1:14-15)
@@davidcopperfield-notthemag397 the real root of the whole thing is SIN.but where sin abounded Grace did much more abound.only God's grace and Jesus Christ can change someone's life..nothing and I mean nothing will change a person inside and out..
It amazes me how all these so called "expert" psychiatrists make perfect theories and talk so knowledgable after the fact. We can all be "experts" with the benefit of hindsight.
@gerry o sullivan- Seriously? I hadn’t heard that before. It seems that there were a few people who could’ve said something about this but just kept quiet. That’s a terrible thing to hear. Things may have went much differently had they just said something.
@@DEADisBEAUTIFUL I’ve heard of things like this in many documentaries.The old days were not good and don’t let people tell you “people looked after one another much more in the past”. Things seemed very bleak if you didn’t have a good family
I feel really sad for Caroline and the rest of the children that suffered at the hands of these monsters. It was chilling when Caroline said that she could still hear him laughing, joking about the patio and that she still felt his presence. It was deep, and dark, it chilled me enough and I'm behind a screen. Everything about this was unjust, they got away with their sick depraved fantasies most of their life, Freddy left a lot of questions unanswered and killed himself, his wife selfish as ever and majorily indenial with little life left to serve her sentence. Hanging her would have been just for such a heinous crime but I'm not related to any of the victims.
It puzzles me why West's house was razed to the ground and obliterated, but Dennis Nilsen's two Houses of Horror are still standing. I suspect London property prices have something to do with it.
@@DoraWinifred Nilsen's property was owned by a Landlord and Wests was owned by Gloucestershire Council. Reason why it was easy to demolish 25 Cromwell Street to the ground
I used to hitchhike as a teen in the area during their killing spree and always remember one couple who picked me up. For a start being picked up by a couple was almost unknown but they were unusually interested in my family circumstances. I told them of my close, loving family, dad a family doctor, and they dropped me as agreed. After the story broke I wondered if I'd encountered the Wests and, if I had, was very grateful to have been too "risky" a victim. I wasn't someone whose disappearance would have been overlooked. It may be nothing though. I may be completely wrong.
My dad has a friend who was in the same school class as Fred’s daughter, who he killed, apparently she was very odd. He also remembers waiting for his dad to pick him up on Cromwell street and outside Fred’s house, there was a rolled up carpet covered in ginger hair.
This is why I don't trust strangers, it's a shame to live like this but there are some EVIL weird people out there - those poor girls and their families!!🙁
I actually know someone who is related to Fred west it’s his cousin. He is such a nice guy. He is just shocked that this actually happened in his family.
I recommend a two-episode miniseries called Appropriate Adult. Dominic West plays Fred West. Emily Watson plays the court-appointed social worker sitting in on his interviews with police after he is caught. Dominic West is just eerie and brilliant.
There is an amazing drama called Appropriate Adult. It is told from the perspective of the "appropriate adult", Janet Leach who sat in on the Fred West interviews. The actors who play the parts do it amazingly. The appropriate adult played by Emily Watson, Fred West is played by Dominic West and Rosemary West, by Monica Dolan. Both Dominic West and Emily Watson won BAFTAs for their parts, which are well deserved, especially Dominic West performance in the first episode, is unreal. If you ever get the chance to watch it, you won't be disappointed. Three part miniseries.
@@acs1809 Ah, great! Hope you enjoy it. If you're anything like me and love a dark drama, you will definitely like it. Like I said, the actors in it do a phenomenal job and the series is very dark indeed. I think Emily Watson is one of the greatest actors of our time.
When I got into a taxi in Gloucester and simply asked the driver to take me to Cromwell Street, he instantly replied: ‘’you do know the house isn’t there anymore?’’. 😂 Guess I’m not the only curious person who wanted to see Fred West’s street over the years. (I did know the house isn’t there anymore).
Brandon Greenleaf I used to live in Gloucester, my office on Southgate street was a few min walk to Cromwell Street - lost count of how many family friends I had to take there to see it!
Fred used to work in a shop down the road from my primary school, my mates mum worked there with him and she says he was a really nice man and it was such a shock. It’s crazy though how he worked so close to a primary school
God bless! Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior and died on a cross for our sins so we can live again in Heaven where there is no pain or suffering! God is our Father and Creator and raised His Son Jesus from the dead! Confess and repent of your sins and God will freely forgive you! Trust in God and live for Jesus as He died for you! 💕 (don’t swear or take God’s name in vain!)🤍
@@user-vy6ee1wo4n God bless! Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior and died on a cross for our sins so we can live again in Heaven where there is no pain or suffering! God is our Father and Creator and raised His Son Jesus from the dead! Confess and repent of your sins and God will freely forgive you! Trust in God and live for Jesus as He died for you! 💕 (don’t swear or take God’s name in vain!)🤍
God bless! Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior and died on a cross for our sins so we can live again in Heaven where there is no pain or suffering! God is our Father and Creator and raised His Son Jesus from the dead! Confess and repent of your sins and God will freely forgive you! Trust in God and live for Jesus as He died for you! 💕 (don’t swear or take God’s name in vain!)🤍
Well 29 wouldn’t have, but 25 may have become quite infamous. This case is well known. Really there was nothing they could do but bulldoze that place down. If anyone had purchased it I can’t imagine the public ignoring the place if ever.
Rose and Fred were a partnership. She is as guilty as he was and possible the driving for behind a much of what transpired. The conclusion is that Fred as bad, and that he was, so much so; BUT Rose was tarred with the same brush as he, and possibly worse. Fred was a dullard, and Rose drove him on. Poor Steven, Mae and Heather, plus the other children.
no one turns into a psychopath after abuse. this kind of reasoning is a slap to honest people who were terribly abused and grew up to be strong individuals and healthy members of society. some rare people are just born evil. things may set them off but their inner nature is what gives them the direction to take in life
What fascinates me is the childhoods in documentaries like these. Damage in the childhood roots so very deep and later on dictate these heinous crimes. Childhood damage and abuse makes a psychopath.
If only there was a way this behavior had been looked into earlier. Koodos to the lady detective that convinced her bosses that something evil was happening at the residence. With an IQ of 80, what kind of work did he do that paid him enough to buy a house and hire a nanny? Throughout there are so many holes or facts that just don't add up correctly. I pray all the victim's families are able to cope and get past the horror of this nightmare.
Yes they know right from wrong they know what they're doing aren't we always told by the world that we are responsible for our own choices okay then these f****** dirtbag piece of s**** monster demons are responsible for their actions and that's why they get the death penalty the judge is not going to say okay you're sick in the head so you're excused go out and kill all these little girls and women because you had a bad childhood the judge is not going to say that the judge is going to give him the death penalty and that's not going to make up for all the innocent little girls and women and old women that these evil monster demons go around raping and killing
Odd how these monsters with simular childhoods and characteristics ended up finding each other. Words can't describe how disgusting they are. My heart goes out to all the peoples lives they ruined.
To clarify, Charmaine, Fred's first daughter was NOT his biological child, as stated, Rena was pregnant, the biological father of the baby was Asian, Rena relocated to England from Glasgow because her family and community wouldnt approve of a mixed race child. she told everyone that charmaine was adopted by them to explain why she took after her birth father.
Also, after his motor bike crash causing him to go into a week long coma,....about a year later at Ledbury Youth Club, he made a grab for a girl who then shoved him down a metal stair case causing him to massively bang his head again,...he was out cold for 24 hours. It was this second blow which then set him off on violently angry and uncontrollable outbursts.
What haunts me the most is why it took so long for anyone from the authorities (for example, the schools) to notice that Heather West hadn't been seen for years.
Exactly. Thats so true.
you do realize that according to law enforcement there are over 100 active Serial Killers in America right now?
@@tbac2432 Think of the accuracy limiting factors in the programs, and databases that would have been the tools available to source a number, I would suggest that we have plenty more of the serial killer variety than any number made public 🙈🙉🙊💩👤👮👥📈📉🎪🎬✂🎥🌃🌉🎣🔩🎲🌎🌎🌏🌍🌍🌐
Maria Kelly
Things were different back then with schools alerting social services to absences, the thing now is that they alert SS over every bloody thing, it’s unreal.
Tbac except this happened in England.
Really feel for Caroline Roberts not only did she survive these horrors, but she bravely fought cancer later too.
I hope she's found peace where ever her soul is now
Rest In Peace, Caroline.
I didn't even know that she had died, May God Rest Her
Caroline Roberts what a lovely soul she was .
She was died Caroline Owens?? If so, Condolence to very families!!!
Was reading that Carl Stotter (Dennis Nielsen survivor) also died. Seems that peace doesn’t come easy for the ones left alive.
My parents used to live 2 doors down from Fred West in Gloucester and my dad once borrowed a ladder off him and had him round for a cup of tea. Fred also helped my mum change her car tyre as well in the pouring rain once. Both my mum and dad say that he seemed like the nicest bloke you'll ever meet, which makes it all the more surprising. My dad still has a photo of him and Fred together at a neighbours BBQ in the mid 80s. They were never friends or anything, just neighbours. Talk about chilling.
Well, it's good to see you here. I suppose these kilers do come off as nice blokes. They'd have to in order to get close enough to kill.
@@LisaMaryification That's how Bundy got his victims.
Sara Grace t
@@LisaMaryification how ya doing buuuuuuddy? Lol jk. That was in bad taste.
Their 'niceness' is part of the 'glib' nature of a psychopath. They watch you and determine how best to 'play' you, whether it's just to get your approval, or to trap you for whatever they want to do. They are very good at what they do.
I love how documentaries about male killers always say: 'he was handsome, charming..alluring... you wouldn't suspect that he could hurt a fly.........' and then they proceed to show a picture of the guy and he looks like a crackhead thumb.
Yeah West is the last thing you'd expect to see after those words. He's just so ugly.
Because they are old by then, if you think that man at 9:53 is ugly then you are lying, he is objectively attractive.
@@bradhurst6834 Or maybe I just have functioning eyesight and good taste.
@@kateohdowd It has nothing to do with taste, that's why I said objectively, his face is attractive.
@@bradhurst6834 Attractiveness is subjective though. For example, I am personally repulsed by Kim Kardashian, and yet she's lauded as an insanely hot woman by millions of people. For her to be objectively attractive, you would need to 'prove' my stance to be wrong. And it has everything to do with taste. The notion that someone couldn't truthfully look at that photograph and feel that there's nothing physically remarkable about him is ludicrous.
"What Made Fred West a Notorious Serial Killer?" Offhand, I'd say it was all those killings.
Yup. Killing people is not a healthy hobby..
but what MADE him do it?
@@watchgoose because he could.
@Ismail Haque what an educated answer 🤦♂️🤦♂️
Gangsta rap possibly?
I get tears in my eyes when I see that picture of little Sharmain. She is the sweetest little angel with the red sweater and her front tooth missing. I can’t imagine Rose hurting that tiny little baby. It just makes me sick to think about it.
oh yes, she was beautiful.
poor little darling.
all her life she was abused.
then murdered.
Thinking of you little
one.....you are not forgotten.
🌹🌹🌹❤
It's astounding and infuriating to me how our present culture turns these super-creeps into a form of anti-hero. It's disgusting. It's like we're collectively saying, "Hey, guys and gals become a serial killer, a serial rapist, a serial killer pedophile rapist and we'll give you your own show!! How's that for a deal?"
@@chestoflogic balconing in Magaluf
@@alvaroaramburunavarro3942 ?
Fred definitely killed more than he was sentenced for.
I agree
@ C J Russ - Fred West was never sentenced.
Absolutely 😠😠
Fred hung himself in prison before his trial.. he was never tried/convicted..
Don't incriminate yourself. Say you "think he did" as in you don't have first hand knowledge..
Am I the only one who watches these kinda docs to fall asleep??
Darius Parks I’ll be half asleep and the narrator starts talking outta nowhere making me jump😂
Same
Darius Parks I watch these documentaries to fall asleep too also I watch forensic files lol 😂
@@MyKirby88 Oh yeah!!! Forensic Files is another go to!!!😂
@@MyKirby88 P.S..U have a pretty profile pic😍
The sexual abuse and rape in this story is absolutely disgusting.
But it is all too common.
@@staciasmith5162 Common? Not where I live, to my knowledge. (still) Too common? Definitely.
@@banedon8087 simply because something isn't happening in your area doesn't mean it isn't common. Also, just because you don't see it or hear about it frequently doesn't mean it isn't happening. Most abuse like that is kept secret, at least for a period of time.
is it ? why is it common
you mean to say its near normal? listen why do these stupid people have children to interfere with them..i hope to god it isnt.common and if it is..those.breeders.should be sterilised or worse..sorry but if its common well lets be casual and say.hey.ho.awww.cute dont lets upset daddy and mummys climax its common aaah
It's astounding and infuriating to me how our present culture turns these super-creeps into a form of anti-hero. It's disgusting. It's like we're collectively saying, "Hey, guys and gals become a serial killer, a serial rapist, a serial killer pedophile rapist and we'll give you your own show!! How's that for a deal?"
How is it these people find marriage & have children and I'm still single?!
I hear ya
Aww, You'll meet yours one day, there's plenty Myra hindleys in the sea
@ 😁😆😆
You know all the chords, and you can't impress a gal?
Psychopaths have a charming side they can turn on when it suits them so it's said.
Sadly caroline died a few years ago from cancer . r.i.p. caroline owens 🌹🌹🌹
Virginia Neil she was a very special human being god bless her
@@chardz2007 god blessed her alright with cancer very generous of him how we should all praise him for his amazing work
Tom God will give her a better afterlife🙏🏼
@@elliot_lufc1826 pathetic religious nonsense
God ya say?!!! 😂😂😂😂
She was found 27 years later with the skeleton of her unborn baby. That is horrifying to think about. Sick
It’s bizarre how similar Fred and Rose’s childhoods were . It’s so creepy and disgusting that more then one persons family was as deprived and horrible as Fred’s . I wonder how many more families like theirs there are out there, that haven’t been caught yet..😞
we will never know, cause all is behind closed door"s..............
They really are so evil and they're crimes were horrific
@@davidjohnson7555 indeed David I totally agree with you
The vast amount of people in reform schools, juvenile detention, in foster care, institutionalized, jailed, homeless have been abused.
@@staciasmith5162 I agree.
damaged, some beyond
repair.
rose west was damaged
beyond damaged....fred also.
It's a weird thing how they found each other ,both psychopaths , evil finds evil !
He was not a psychopath. They don't much like company. Sociopath more likely
Law of Attraction at work
@@spencer23dollars34 In essence Psychopath and Sociopath are almost the same thing, except that you are born Psychopath (genetically inherent) and Sociopathy is adaptive disorder which is almost the same think (logically speaking, don't know about internals of the brain).
The devil looks after his own 😠😠😠
She was right about him and had she not set up with him later I do not believe we would know her name . Fred was a killer whwn they met . Abused women have a look in their eye that abusers recognize and zero in on . She was groomed . Over time she became the controller .
‘He lost his good looks...’
Are we looking at the same potato here?!
😂😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Even as baby he looked horrible
7:26
He looks like an actor here: 7:26
Fined 25 pounds each for kidnapping and assault (and free of rape?)
So the justice system are to blame for the escalation of all these murders
@Mister Physics you sound jealous
Dennis Baird jealous of poor rich trump.
Far too often police don't do a thorough job, sentencing is very often pathetic.
@Mister Physics what a god damn idiot lmfao
@@toddgilbey3979 dont forget paedophiles, they get off easy aswell. Even giving places to live
People don't realize how truly damaging a nuclear an extended multi generation incestuous, brutal, violent family is. The things that you have to endure, to try to survive, to make sense of life. The warping of a person, the addictions and eating disorders. Being continually a victim or an offender. If you suspect anyone being abused, please inform the authorities. We can pass it back instead of passing it on.
poor little souls....
AGREED MAM
Lost his good looks? Yeah, he was Brad Pitt before breaking his nose?
🤣
He looked like an overweight Gilbert Godfried.
Fancy him do you, you sick cabbage?
@Rebecca Buschhorn Pigs are not killers!
Adam Bumble HA! I’m so dead 💀😂👍🏻✌🏻
Heather looked so sad in her pic 😩
Vikki Smith No matter how many times i look at the children's pic's I still feel so much pain for them ❤️🌹👼
even though she tries to smile her eyes never lie. Heather got it the worst I believe and thats why was traumatised to the point she coudlnt even function
@@medzykh9455 Anne Marie had it just as bad. I saw an interview with her. She turned into a lovely lady
@@Jerseybytes2 she is a lovely lady but with scars. I believe shes not talking with her own daughter because of Rosemary. Her daughter wants to cut all ties with Rosemary but Anne Marie still talks to Rose.
I agree. She was very pretty and reminded me of a female version of King, the pop star. What her 'parents' did was so very awful
I saw Caroline at a spiritual meeting in 2004. Poor girl looked haunted and never recovered. May the spirits keep her safe in love and peace.
@ق اجخخ you know this how ?
💔
Did anyone else notice how creepy that childhood photo was with white dots on his eyes?
The devil 👹👹
Christina Reeves at 6:24?! I know. Ahhh how didn’t they address or comment on this 😈
by white dots, do you mean the developing anomalies which happen sometimes?
Yuuuup
Yes, I also noticed it 😬
The fact they abused their own children as brutally as strangers and themselves were abused mixed with low IQs and a society that preferred to look the other way and where authorities seemed to value property more than human life - a perfect storm. RIP all their victims 🥀
Loss of his look? He looked like the missing link from birth.
Samurai Hardware Perhaps beauty standards are different in Much Markle. I mean, he did have a full head of hair and two eyes.
They threw the kid away and kept the after birth
😂😂😂😂😂
freds mother looked like fred in a wig.....very creepy lookin woman...
Treasa Lynam ....very unappealing woman in every way possible from the sound of it.
@@teresas8173 mmmmhhhh😥😥😥😓😓😔😔😔😔
OK
you should visit Gloucester sometime.
@@insertnamehere5146 honestly it sounds creepy but I would love to visit some of the places where these happened.....
Can we all take a moment to applaud that police office who persuaded her bosses to dig up the patio? If she hadn’t, even more people could have died
Great point 👍💯❤️
Yes Karens CAN wreak havoc for good! JK- but true- thank providence for her intervention.
She watched brookside
yes, she didn't give up....she got an MBE.
If caroline testified most of this wouldnt have happened either
I’ve noticed while researching and watching these documentaries that something a lot of these serial killers have in common is that a lot of them have had some sort of head injury during childhood, and a lot of the time were also abused during childhood. The head injuries seem more common though. Just an interesting observation I made, I’m sure others have seen this connection as well.
Sarah Catherine , yes, it’s known that’s its usually a combination of genetics, sometimes child abuse, and sometimes head injuries that create serial killers.
I saw something one time of a study done on some very violent prisoners in the U.S. Many showed damage to their brains on scans. Sorry this is so vague. But I've never forgotten the gist of the study.
Apparently Hitler turned into... Hitler when he was fighting in ww1. He got gas attacked and they think the gas damaged his brain and made him into what we know now.
Frontal lobe injury makes it likely that a person will lack the self control of a healthy person . See Bobby Joe Long , Chris Benoit
Richard Ramirez was knocked unconscious and almost died on multiple occasions before he was six years old and as a result "later developed temporal lobe epilepsy, aggressivity and hypersexuality"
His psychiatrist said because of this he was a made psychopath and not a born psychopath. I found that on Wikipedia if anyone wants to read more.
People underestimate how serious even small head injuries are. A concussion alone can change your entire being. He had two huge head injuries.
I’ve read quite a bit about serial killers, but these two have stuck with me. Absolute depravity...
Justin..yes.i agree.these two stand out from other murderers and i have read and watched a lot about them.the thing that interests me is how all the while they carried on a supposedly.normal family life.also there is the aspect of it that no one else in the house knew...or did they?it is a fascinating case.
I live literally down the road from where this took place, luckily not at the same time but yeah feels weird walking on that path knowing what happened.
Oh wow....
My partner actually lived in Gloucester as a kid when this was happening, said that the city was in chaos around the time all of this came to light, but that people certainly knew the Wests weren't 'right'. Some of the local police force actually used to visit Rose for her services. :/ Sickening really.
they must have been desperate to use rose lol
@@gafak47 Allegedly, when she was younger she was a bit of a looker. I don't think they'd have been so keen if they knew what we all know now!
I know what you mean. Walking around the city centre thinking they’d walked the same streets and have seen the same buildings ect.
I feel sorry for the child he once was.
Indeed.
I feel sorry for his children more
He was likely a psychopath before the abuse and before the head trauma . Rosemary was not . She was groomed into it and grew to like it .
@@ApothecaryGrant Fred was also sexually abused and physically abused by both parents. Still a sicko .
I dont get how someone could kill there own child. Its disgusting
Its called mental dysfunction / psychopathy
It's astounding and infuriating to me how our present culture turns these super-creeps into a form of anti-hero. It's disgusting. It's like we're collectively saying, "Hey, guys and gals become a serial killer, a serial rapist, a serial killer pedophile rapist and we'll give you your own show!! How's that for a deal?"
sweetheart 137 *their
@@Bootmahoy88 once again. Dan… no one is saying that…
For a moment I faugh they were all on the same ⛵
I am grateful for documentaries like this because it educates the public what people can do. Then they hopefully become more cautious and pay attention to warning signs. Back when West was doing this, people never even considered psychopathic murderers. Sadly, we HAVE to know these things and teach others. Stay up-to-date and be safe.
it will make no difference - because the way it is framed is not the way human life is
"He may have kept one or two bones..." Dude, he kept dozens of bones!
Yeah, for the dog
Unfortunately, Fred and Rose are not alone, I believe that even now, somewhere in this country, more people are being abused and murdered by similar people like the Wests, we just haven't found them yet.
Fred LOOKS like a predator.
Never want to be alone with him.
Well he's dead so that won't be a problem lol
Hindsight is 2020. Did Ted Bundy LOOK like a predator?
@@llLittleNicky Yes , if you look at the look in his eyes.
you can't tell by looks alone. The guy you all talk about and stay away from could be the most kind gentle soul you would have met, while someone charming and appealing could be waiting to kill you. Its just impossible to tell by looks
Exactly! We’re looking at this with the benefit of hindsight. When you’re looking at a still photo, maybe it does look creepy. But if you met these people, it’s likely that they’d appear as normal as anyone else.
*Wake up in the middle of the night*
My brain: "Well the only logical thing to do is to watch documentaries about serial killers."
I know. Maybe we're crazy.
Anyone started watching this due to the recent news on tv about possible remains found related to the fred west murders?
I had read, in one of the articles, that Rose was infuriated by Charmaine's head-strong attitude and vehement denial at calling her mummy. She was so defiant she didn't even cry on getting beatings and punishments while Anne Marie would stand right there shedding silent tears watching the ordeal of her sister. Charmaine believed up till very end that Rina will come and take her away.
I knew about his frontal lobe injury, which explains his behaviours, but not about his IQ of just 80. That's a really bad combination.
@Mister Physics Who shamed anyone? You rediculous fool! I merely comment on the facts of his frontal lobe injury. Go research the functions of the frontal lobe. Then you may understand just why, coupled with a very low IQ, he had these behaviours. You are incorrect in saying that the brain injury causation was adults. He was involved in a nasty biking accident. Resulting in disfiguring facial injuries and FRONTAL LOBE damage. Open a book for the first time in your argumentative sad life.
@@Fee212 *RIDICULOUS*
@Andre Linoge I agree. You are rather.
@Julia A I agree with your very intelligently comment. Informative and factual research. Well done.
Mac 101 oh my god
Eww his mugshot gives me creeps. I remember being a kid and seeing the news and realising what he had done....was so shocking and depraved.
Their poor kids.
@Samantha J.Hudson haha what a weirdo. 😂 why exactly am I an idiot? You sticking up for old Fred are ya?
That escalated quick lol
I was working during this was an in-joke at work, no one knew how much carnage they inflicted.
boo
@Samantha J.Hudson Did the peroxide melt your brain cells?
Who else read the comments before watching the show
Erica Charles
I always do and then I miss half the frigging show!
yeaaahh
Moi....before and after.
My big habit
Authorities will always claim that these criminals were/are so "charming, cunning, smart" etc to make excuses for their lack of action and downright uselessness.
that’s actually a great point that i never thought of
Yea good point there
I had a cousin who sadly didn't survive more than a few days after being born. His funeral happened to be the same time and place as Fred West's (the crematorium has 2 chapels). Always found it haunting to have even a loose connection with such an evil man
Don't worry they went to two very different destinations.
@@Luton-Mick Most definitely.
@@Luton-Mick So true!
I live a few roads away from this house. It's been knocked down and now stands as a walkway, but each time I pass it, I take a moment and a deep breath. It's an odd sight, knowing that the patches of grass and pavement there once held such evil things. I hope there is some peace now for these brave women.
my mum used to teach basic maths and english to adults and taught him maths for a while at a centre in cheltenham, just next to gloucester. as someone who’s been raised in gloucester i know loads of people who have parents and grandparents who knew fred and rose but didn’t suspect a thing, really scary to think about
I happen to be watching this on the 25th anniversary of the police starting to dig up the patio.
Peace to all those affected by these monsters.
Everything stems from trauma. It has never been adressed. Pay attention to the children and their suffering
Say it louder.
This just makes me scared of people
Trust. No. One.
@@SuV33358 Yes, same as Fred West did 3:). JK : "Ye don't trust anyone!".
Enjoy your risk-averse Millenial lives...
U should be. Under the right circumstances many are able to kill unfortunately.
Be cautious and take self defense lessons. Also don't go to people's houses from pubs
I never realised the missing toes and fingers were part of their torture!! Shocking
post-mortem trophies, a type of paraphilia, quite possibly.
What, you thought they just fell off?
@@chriswakefield9538 Wot Graham said
Paul Bernardo and his wife, Carla Homolka, the notorious serial killers in Canada also chopped off parts of their victims before killing them . Bernardo is still in prison but Homolka is free, married and has a family of her own. She ratted on him and got a plea bargain.
"Opted out of the human race."
That's an important distinction. People aren't born bad, they become bad.
Yep
Exactly. An excellent phrase. They opted out.
Yes, I agree that people are not born killers. They act on their desires more and more in essence jading then killing their birth conscience. People CHOOSE to become wicked. They are able to stop the progression but they don't want to. I would say all of us did something bad in our life and made the choice to not do it again. (James 1:14-15)
@@davidcopperfield-notthemag397 the real root of the whole thing is SIN.but where sin abounded Grace did much more abound.only God's grace and Jesus Christ can change someone's life..nothing and I mean nothing will change a person inside and out..
@@paulnelson3096 Amen
Fred looked like the ventriloquist doll from that Twilight zone episode.
wwe
fr
OMG. You nailed it!
Hahahahaha he does
I remember all this coming home from university and hearing the news. Terrible calamity for all those hurt by those two including their poor children
I’ve watched a lot of sick and twisted documentaries on serial killers, but God this one was the craziest and most disturbing.
It amazes me how all these so called "expert" psychiatrists make perfect theories and talk so knowledgable after the fact. We can all be "experts" with the benefit of hindsight.
Very true,turns out the kids were admitted to hospital 31 times over the years with various injuries and not once was anything done about it
@gerry o sullivan- Seriously? I hadn’t heard that before. It seems that there were a few people who could’ve said something about this but just kept quiet. That’s a terrible thing to hear. Things may have went much differently had they just said something.
@@DEADisBEAUTIFUL I’ve heard of things like this in many documentaries.The old days were not good and don’t let people tell you “people looked after one another much more in the past”. Things seemed very bleak if you didn’t have a good family
Yeah we it's easy even they've done all the research for us
RED Knight
What's wrong with that?
They have all the information now and can make a diagnosis which will be accurate.
Why is that amazing?
Too bad you don't have the death penalty. Rose is definately someone who needs it.
nursemedic17 bring it back in a heartbeat
@@86Tinby I would vote for it !!!!
jo egleton me too
No death penalty in the western world is quick enough. Decades worth of scum nowhere even close to the gallows.
Absolutely and I would build a bonfire 😠😠
I feel really sad for Caroline and the rest of the children that suffered at the hands of these monsters. It was chilling when Caroline said that she could still hear him laughing, joking about the patio and that she still felt his presence. It was deep, and dark, it chilled me enough and I'm behind a screen. Everything about this was unjust, they got away with their sick depraved fantasies most of their life, Freddy left a lot of questions unanswered and killed himself, his wife selfish as ever and majorily indenial with little life left to serve her sentence. Hanging her would have been just for such a heinous crime but I'm not related to any of the victims.
It puzzles me why West's house was razed to the ground and obliterated, but Dennis Nilsen's two Houses of Horror are still standing. I suspect London property prices have something to do with it.
Nilsen's place was a flat and the other was a terraced property so It would be legally difficult to destroy them.
@@DoraWinifred Nilsen's property was owned by a Landlord and Wests was owned by Gloucestershire Council. Reason why it was easy to demolish 25 Cromwell Street to the ground
@@speedyboishan87 25 Cromwell street was owned by Fred West
Fred the builder told the police he had only killed 6 but later when they had evidence of 12 he admitted 6 had only been a estimate.
😂🤣
Why would you as a mother leave your daughters to someone like this man you knew is prone to violence? I so pity the children.
I used to hitchhike as a teen in the area during their killing spree and always remember one couple who picked me up. For a start being picked up by a couple was almost unknown but they were unusually interested in my family circumstances. I told them of my close, loving family, dad a family doctor, and they dropped me as agreed. After the story broke I wondered if I'd encountered the Wests and, if I had, was very grateful to have been too "risky" a victim. I wasn't someone whose disappearance would have been overlooked.
It may be nothing though. I may be completely wrong.
You were probably very very lucky to get away 👹👹
Agreed
Why did you hitchhike? You never possibly know what creep your going to meet
surely you'd remembmer their looks?
What's your dad being a family doctor got to do with you coming from a loving family? Doctors get up to stuff aswell..look at Harold shipman
My dad has a friend who was in the same school class as Fred’s daughter, who he killed, apparently she was very odd. He also remembers waiting for his dad to pick him up on Cromwell street and outside Fred’s house, there was a rolled up carpet covered in ginger hair.
very odd in what way? interested to know details about what she was like.
"Short and unproductive"
Stop describing me
Loool
The nerve of them
This is why I don't trust strangers, it's a shame to live like this but there are some EVIL weird people out there - those poor girls and their families!!🙁
His poor kids too! He abused them too and murdered his own elder daughter, Heather!
No contest...women make the best detectives......they possess an awareness that runs right over their male counter-parts heads...!!
Thonk
Suuuuuure.....
I actually know someone who is related to Fred west it’s his cousin. He is such a nice guy. He is just shocked that this actually happened in his family.
@Jody Doherty Well their parents would grow up together wouldn't they? I don't know if I missed it in the documentary.
@Jody Doherty ua-cam.com/video/sZSpmvYFuqE/v-deo.html Some of the stuff there is really disturbing.
Stop telling lies for attention 😔😔😔
He somehow carried on what he himself had been a victim of. I cannot imagine being abused by your parents. The trauma must be immense.
No-one is BORN to kill, not even Hitler.
You get that way from your life experiences.
This is false. Environmental factors are definitely a cause in some cases. But, it is entirely possible to be born a psychopath
I recommend a two-episode miniseries called Appropriate Adult. Dominic West plays Fred West. Emily Watson plays the court-appointed social worker sitting in on his interviews with police after he is caught. Dominic West is just eerie and brilliant.
There is an amazing drama called Appropriate Adult. It is told from the perspective of the "appropriate adult", Janet Leach who sat in on the Fred West interviews. The actors who play the parts do it amazingly. The appropriate adult played by Emily Watson, Fred West is played by Dominic West and Rosemary West, by Monica Dolan. Both Dominic West and Emily Watson won BAFTAs for their parts, which are well deserved, especially Dominic West performance in the first episode, is unreal. If you ever get the chance to watch it, you won't be disappointed. Three part miniseries.
I'm on the first episode after your recommendation, cheers.
@@acs1809 Ah, great! Hope you enjoy it. If you're anything like me and love a dark drama, you will definitely like it. Like I said, the actors in it do a phenomenal job and the series is very dark indeed. I think Emily Watson is one of the greatest actors of our time.
I'm on the second episode now and it's crazy how you don't hate Fred even though you know the horrendous things he's done.
These documentaries are getting me through lockdown
When I got into a taxi in Gloucester and simply asked the driver to take me to Cromwell Street, he instantly replied: ‘’you do know the house isn’t there anymore?’’. 😂 Guess I’m not the only curious person who wanted to see Fred West’s street over the years.
(I did know the house isn’t there anymore).
I more shocked at the fact you didn't know it wasn't there
Brandon Greenleaf I used to live in Gloucester, my office on Southgate street was a few min walk to Cromwell Street - lost count of how many family friends I had to take there to see it!
Miss Catz I did know it wasn’t there. I still wanted to see the street. My point was I only had to ask to be taken to Cromwell Street and he knew why!
I wonder how the residents at 23 cromwell house feel
I wonder what it did for house prices in the street
I love how they said “the motorcycle accident deteriorated Fred’s good looks” when Fred west looked like an evil gremlin since the day he was born
Fred used to work in a shop down the road from my primary school, my mates mum worked there with him and she says he was a really nice man and it was such a shock. It’s crazy though how he worked so close to a primary school
Well what do you expect him working near a primary school bet he loved looking at all the kids going in and out
God bless! Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior and died on a cross for our sins so we can live again in Heaven where there is no pain or suffering! God is our Father and Creator and raised His Son Jesus from the dead! Confess and repent of your sins and God will freely forgive you! Trust in God and live for Jesus as He died for you! 💕 (don’t swear or take God’s name in vain!)🤍
His building skills helped him a lot.
Evil lives amongst us. Human beings can be as evil as evil itself. Be careful of people
It always seems to happen when your guard is down.
She was 40 and looks like 60
who?
xydoit
this guy was raised like an animal...
Literally. Bred on a farm.
@@GarethWareth
Iñbred on a farm...
A lot of families like his, and like Rosemary.
Some people sure do live strange lives, makes you think what is this universe all about
It only makes sense in the context of the devil existing..
Turn to Allah s.w.t, let him deal with these types
@@user-vy6ee1wo4n God bless! Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior and died on a cross for our sins so we can live again in Heaven where there is no pain or suffering! God is our Father and Creator and raised His Son Jesus from the dead! Confess and repent of your sins and God will freely forgive you! Trust in God and live for Jesus as He died for you! 💕 (don’t swear or take God’s name in vain!)🤍
God bless! Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior and died on a cross for our sins so we can live again in Heaven where there is no pain or suffering! God is our Father and Creator and raised His Son Jesus from the dead! Confess and repent of your sins and God will freely forgive you! Trust in God and live for Jesus as He died for you! 💕 (don’t swear or take God’s name in vain!)🤍
the religious replies make me nauseous. do your own research, folks, and stop following your beliefs mindlessly
They’re looking for another victim now 19th May 2021 digging up the basement of a cafe
"29 Cromwell street has become the most famous address in the world!" Just a slight exaggeration, don't you think?
Its 25
@@clarebrandon5480 😂😂
@@clarebrandon5480 well that just proves their point
Well 29 wouldn’t have, but 25 may have become quite infamous. This case is well known. Really there was nothing they could do but bulldoze that place down. If anyone had purchased it I can’t imagine the public ignoring the place if ever.
It's the most notorious address in the UK and its 25 not 29.
Frightening to think there are people like this out there
ARE U INDIAN?
Rose and Fred were a partnership. She is as guilty as he was and possible the driving for behind a much of what transpired. The conclusion is that Fred as bad, and that he was, so much so; BUT Rose was tarred with the same brush as he, and possibly worse. Fred was a dullard, and Rose drove him on. Poor Steven, Mae and Heather, plus the other children.
no one turns into a psychopath after abuse. this kind of reasoning is a slap to honest people who were terribly abused and grew up to be strong individuals and healthy members of society. some rare people are just born evil. things may set them off but their inner nature is what gives them the direction to take in life
What fascinates me is the childhoods in documentaries like these. Damage in the childhood roots so very deep and later on dictate these heinous crimes. Childhood damage and abuse makes a psychopath.
It blows my mind how many kids have been sexually assaulted. I'm fortunate that I've never had to be concerned about that type as a kid
Lucky you
If only there was a way this behavior had been looked into earlier. Koodos to the lady detective that convinced her bosses that something evil was happening at the residence. With an IQ of 80, what kind of work did he do that paid him enough to buy a house and hire a nanny? Throughout there are so many holes or facts that just don't add up correctly. I pray all the victim's families are able to cope and get past the horror of this nightmare.
Don't always have to have an high IQ to get a good job
Rose was on the game , probably brought in more £ than Fred.....
My Gosh, this is why there should be much stricter laws when it comes to the breeding of humans !
2 demons in the flesh that simple
Carolyne is lucky to be alive.
Very lucky
In a way it’s even worse, because for the rest of her life she’ll have to live with the memory of her abuse, rape and torture imprinted in her mind.
Unfortunately she appears to have died of cancer in 2016.
@@ahmedmwenye9564 she died in 2016 of cancer
@@tadhgknight3484 she died in 2016 of cancer
Lived in Gloucester for a while and one night I purposely drove out to Cromwell Street. I dunno why, morbid curiosity :(
Allow me to translate: Rose allowed him to sleep with the kids 🤮
25 quid? Why does everything in the police seem to involve money?... Did they do anything to protect the victim with that 50 quid?...
Jon Hartley not that it makes a difference, but £50 in 1973 is = £594.01 in 2018 or $758.85
Still, nothing. But certainly sounds better
I really hope their children are getting the help they need
One of their daughters, Mae West, wrote an incredible book about growing up in that house. I'd recommend it! She's undoubtedly a strong woman
He didn't give them the satisfaction of locking him up forever. He was like, "Take that Rose. You don't reject me".
"... literally plumb the depths of human depravity."
No... not literally.
I absolutely hate it when people excuse these crimes with their child hood. People know right from wrong.
Yes they know right from wrong they know what they're doing aren't we always told by the world that we are responsible for our own choices okay then these f****** dirtbag piece of s**** monster demons are responsible for their actions and that's why they get the death penalty the judge is not going to say okay you're sick in the head so you're excused go out and kill all these little girls and women because you had a bad childhood the judge is not going to say that the judge is going to give him the death penalty and that's not going to make up for all the innocent little girls and women and old women that these evil monster demons go around raping and killing
Odd how these monsters with simular childhoods and characteristics ended up finding each other. Words can't describe how disgusting they are.
My heart goes out to all the peoples lives they ruined.
To clarify, Charmaine, Fred's first daughter was NOT his biological child, as stated, Rena was pregnant, the biological father of the baby was Asian, Rena relocated to England from Glasgow because her family and community wouldnt approve of a mixed race child. she told everyone that charmaine was adopted by them to explain why she took after her birth father.
I feel like Rose was a controller and abuser in their relationship and was the mastermind of all!
Also, after his motor bike crash causing him to go into a week long coma,....about a year
later at Ledbury Youth Club, he made a grab for a girl who then shoved him down a metal
stair case causing him to massively bang his head again,...he was out cold for 24 hours.
It was this second blow which then set him off on violently angry and uncontrollable outbursts.