The End of 405 line TV part 2
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- Опубліковано 24 гру 2007
- This clip was recorded on January 3, 1985 and includes the announcement of the end of 405 television transmission. Note the television is a fully operational 1938 Baird model T-18, located at Lime Grove Studios and receiving the broadcast by antenna. When BBC 1 Continuity cut to the set, the television is receiving and displaying an image of itself!
- Наука та технологія
The 405-line system was also originally known as "high-definition".
Well, it was compared to previous 30-line systems. :)
@Tomleç - OAU-1 Well, it didn't have pixels as such, but yes, 30 lines. scanned vertically, with a mechanical disc. There are plenty of examples on UA-cam - search "30 line" or "mechanical TV" or Baird - though few of them are synced properly so look worse than they were because of flicker.
Thank you very much for this great historical moment. 405 lines system A stille remains the TV system that survived the longest time, from 1936 to 1985! Unfortunately in France, TF1, although still publicly owned at that time, didn't bother in waiving goodbye to its 819 lines network...
I think I do remember 'old' television, but my parents were only lucky enough to be able to watch TV in their childhood days!
He says it over the clock, inviting viewers to join BBC1 tomorrow for "more high definition viewing".
625, compared to 405 is hi-def.
If anybody is chuckling over the "high definition" part, let me remind you of those technically horrible portable DVD players about 7-8" with 480x234 screen definition which you found in any electronic store very few years ago (in fact there are some models still on the market, but they are past their heyday). I cringe so much whenever I see one I, well, even despise customers able to buy such junk. I don't exactly know how it exactly translated into analog, but guess that's under 300 lines, right?
I have to say, The DVD player I OWN (Yes still own) does tonnes better in quality than this 1985 recording of TV showing an image of itself, but hey maybe I was lucky or maybe I just have a lower sense of quality I dont know, but I will give you one thing, DVD's are still better than Netflix, Amazon Prime and all those various other service due to the fact that I could watch a film with no internet and no tv
BilisNegra Nah, it was High-Definition for the day. Back in 1936, 405 lines was a big improvement over the highest resolution Baird-Mechanical TVs which ran at 240 lines. Of course, by the 50’s it was lower than the competition, the original NTSC came around with 525 lines and everyone else had higher resolution TVs than the UK, and the French even had a 819-line HD system which was just mental. And the 625-line service that was replacing the old 405-line service was very high resolution for the 1980’s, where the wasn’t really anything better, excluding Japan’s MUSE HD system, and would’ve been a big jump for the people who’d been using 405-line TV since the 30’s.
My mummy and daddy bought me one for my birthday in 2017 and I took it on holiday and it was very good because you could watch it on the loo. They're meant for up close and personal use like that, like watching stuff on a smartphone. The TV set in this video, on the other hand, would have spent its working life serving an entire living room. Oh yes and DVDiscmans double as nifty CD Discmans too.
@@ItsRickysChannelSHORTS I can't watch my mate's band on Netflix or Amazon Prime but I can hard-drive a bunch of UA-cam clips of her in action and burn them to DVD. Then again I can watch her in action on a Smart TV with a UA-cam app, but it's still a good idea to hard-drive good stuff in case it ever gets deleted.
I mean, it kind of does the job, and on such a small screen the difference in resolution would hardly be noticeable.
Note that this video was most likely captured in under 300 lines of resolution (the quality difference is indistinguishable between the 360p and 240p modes here on UA-cam)!
576i PAL still holds up very well.
What a send of they gave to 405 line television. Check out how they closed down anologue not even a goodbye, nothing.
when they played the national anthem on tv when the transmission closed for the night .
My Father would stand up
Lol
@@novatiberium Not unusual; although it was rare if not discontinued entirely by 1985, _cinemas_ also used to play the national anthem after the end of the main picture, and people stood. (Latterly, as a run for the exits!) I remember as school projectionist, there was a tiny reel of film with it (and some pictures of the Queen) in the projector box; I only showed it once, and nearly got lynched 🙂 (and that was 1970s).
These were a pretty cool pair of videos.
Part 2: Source Recording of BBC 1’s Final Sign-off to 405-Line TV on 625 Lines. (You may see the Same 405-Line TV that was shown at Part 1)
The weather will be shite here, here and here.
Great they bothered mentioning this at all. I bet they won't do something like this when analogue terrestrial bites the dust...
I am from the future. All I can say is that only Wales and Northern Ireland seemed to give a crap about analogue going out.
David Miles the announcer there was part of TV history in the making! He must be proud! Lime Grove studios for the BBC is not there any more is it?
Was torn down in 1993.
In UK, yes they are used for DAB and also for private radio services.
625 is on its way out. The standard digital signal (never mind the HD one) is 500-odd lines (525 i think) - and will replace the 625 signall across the UK between now and 2012.
It's 1080 lines.
@@JayRudko 1080p wasn't the standard in 2009 when I posted that though.
@@keda1981 DVB-T could do 1080i. DVB-T2 can do 1080p.
Again the word is "standard". 1080 was supported, but MPEG4 525 lines was the standard the UK had on switchover. Many stations had HD channels but these weren't - and still aren't - mandatory.
"625" analogue had 576 actual picture lines - which is what SD video still has. ("525" was the old US system ["NTSC", though 625 is _not_ "PAL" as many think], which had 480 picture lines - VGA.)
I'm sad that 405 lines had to end.
Yes; for similar horizontal resolution, it used amazingly low bandwidth. And 405 wathat much lower than 625 - it was only about a 50% increase; just by then, most 405 sets were ageing and not displaying as well as they once did (and of course we never had colour 405 except experimentally).
An excellent but sad listing for Christmas viewing. Thank you. Unfortunately I do feel that its close down took programme quality with it as well. But then thats just my humble opinion.. LOL
I think 525 lines refers to the the number of lines in the American NTSC system, and has nothing to do with digital at all, although digital does use fewer lines than the PAL system used in the U.K and Europe, most European countries have a variation on the PAL system (Phase Amplitude Line modulation), indicated by the letter following it. PAL B, etc. I am not certain how many fewer lines digital actually uses though.
Both NTSC "525" lines and European "625" (which is _NOT_ PAL; PAL refers to the colour system, not the number of lines) had fewer lines of actual _picture_ - 576 for "625" and I think 480 for "525"; this is because some lines were "lost" while the beam moved back to the top of the screen. Digital "SD" used the same number (576 or 480) of lines of actual _picture_ , so doesn't actually use _fewer_ lines than analogue; it just doesn't need the "flyback lines".
Systems B, G, and I were all "625" lines (576 actual picture); they just differed in sound/vision separation (6 MHz for I, 5.5 for B and G), channel width, and so on. Most sets that displayed them all (B/G universal in Europe [one on VHF one on UHF]), though I (UK/Eire only, so I/B/G sets not common) used the same circuitry for video.
Oh, and the colour system is phase, _alternate_ line (not amplitude). [The colour subcarrier swung in opposite directions on alternate lines, so any errors cancelled somewhat.]
Yea but as sad as it is, things like this change for the better
more high definition viewing.. wow that sounds so funny now xD
that's realy xD
high def back then...
Thank you LT, I did not know that. :)
Not accurate; VHF Band I and III are still used for TV broadcasting in North America. However ATSC in Band I is not as desirable because these lower frequencies are more susceptible to noise, thus causing severe picture breakup, whereas analog just showed the noise with a watchable picture. Band III works in a lot of cases, but the prime space is in UHF - high UHF.
This is the UK not the USA.
It's true that the VHF band is still being used by some TV stations in the US, but most have migrated to UHF. Those that stayed on VHF have experienced reception problems. They either had to increase their power, or move to UHF.
There was also a recent sell-off , by our FCC, of those TV channels 38 to 52, for land mobile use. Any TV stations on those channels had to move to either a UHF channel, between 14 and 36, a VHF channel, or go off the air completely. Many stations, already on channels 14-36 had to move to other channels, still within that range. The moves were done in steps; we were bombarded with announcements telling us when we needed to rescan. Big mess.
@AidanLunn Weeeeeell, that's not really a correct association. The "rabbit ears" are just a dipole antenna to receive any signal on VHF band, They have nothing to do with a particular video format.
DTV is transmitted on VHF just like NTSC was and can be received by a digital tuner using the dipole antenna known as "rabbit ears" or a variety of loop and wedge antennas, just like in the analogue days.
Technically, you are correct. However, in UK, when we had analogue, it was system A ("405" lines) on VHF only (until 1985 as this clip is about), and system I ("625") on UHF only. So a "rabbit's ears" was mostly associated with the old standard. (I've never seen a rabbit's ears for UHF - even set-top aerials for UHF tend to be multi-element Yagi [or occaionally a dish].)
FWIW we now (2022) have digital TV (SD [576i] and HD [1080]) on UHF only, in UK; I think the rest of europe still uses VHF for TV as well, though all digital (I don't think there's any analogue TV broadcasting left).
FWIW, 405 was *not* PAL.
*IS SECAM*
Nor was 625. PAL refers to the colour encoding system _only_ (unlike NTSC, which refers both to the line/field/frame format _and_ the colour encoding).
@@gumersindo1769 No. PAL and SECAM are colour encoding systems. Most of western Europe used PAL colour on their 625-line systems; France used SECAM colour, also on 625. USA used NTSC color (!) on 525. Brazil usd PAL colore on 525.
@LuthansaTerminal definitely said "high definition"
Does every one think they will eventually phrase out the 625 pal line system in favour for the 720 or 1,080 line pal system?
In 2023 it has started. By next year only DVB-T will carry the BBC's MPEG2 576i services, with them then gone from satellite. From now until then they will be lower bandwidth "nightlight" versions without regional opt outs.
is the final part a uk anthern?
Yes, the national anthem, "God Save The King/Queen".
Yes. Before broadcasting went 24 hour, stations used to play the national anthem at closedown. Not unique to UK - I'm pretty sure most USA astations did too, and I think many other nations. (Obviously, US stations played the spanner, not GSTQ!)
I actually miss that. Something that is gone that was so ubiquitous. But I looked forward to it, so after the signal was shut off, I could turn the antenna and try to see if I could catch anything far away going off the air.
@@G6JPG & in Wales we had the Welsh anthem as well. There is a couple of Welsh closedown on YT. HTV Wales had a nice closedown film.
We're in digital age.
@AidanLunn Ha! And to most of the populous it does not matter the technical details. But to geeky nuts like us well we just can't to let it go! LOL
@AidanLunn Uhhhmmmmm idunno, whats the 8 for?
This is the actual TV in full action screening all of the above: ua-cam.com/video/sG52HcgKaD4/v-deo.html&lc
Why does there appear to be colour on that 405 line screen? Wasn't 405 black and white only?
There were a few trials with NTSC colour but otherwise it remained b/w only.
This is "part 2" of the clip - recoded from the 625 line broadcast, which was indeed colour; the 405-line monochrome set (from 1938!) appeared _in_ the clip (working, showing itself!) at one point. If you look out "part 1" of the clip, that is taken looking at the old set throughout, and is indeed not in colour (what's on its screen; the video of the set itself is).
@@reynirheidbergstefansson2343 I think the system A ("405") colour trials tried all three colour systems - NTSC, SECAM, and PAL - but those were back in the 1960s; yes, the decision was made to abandon it, so 405 was B/W only for most of its run. (Because they hadn't settled on which colour system to use - and finally decided not to use any - I don't think any 405 colour sets were ever sold to the public.)
I, too, think they tried all the systems; at least that is how I understand the reports and articles of that period.
@@reynirheidbergstefansson2343 Including working out the necessary colour subcarrier frequencies to work with 405/25! I expect PAL-A would have worked very well - but since we already had 625 in position (and the rest of Europe was staying with that, in fact _only_ using that) and operating in parallel, and the _majority_ of 405 sets in use were old ones, the decision (not to go with colour on system A) is understandable.
nothing shutdown D:
what hapend??? xd
@AidanLunn Oh. Yes it should have been 405 i....and I hate waveband too....very obtuse.
Jan. 4 u mean
why?
If your "why?" means why wasn't 405 colour, I think it was decided only to put colour on the 625 system which was the same as the rest of europe was using anyway; anyone buying a new set (which they'd have to do to get colour anyway) would buy a 625 set, so it wasn't seen as practical to colour the 405 service too, as there'd be hardly any sets sold/bought, even if they had settled on one of the three competing colour systems.
if it had been 625 lines we would never had colour like we have to day all this digtial television that happping because digtial television is the future alanouge tv gone since they maded better televisions digtial television and every thing is better in colour you can see the television picture woul not see that if it was black and white from daniel clapham
The days, here in the US, of "Never Twice the Same Colour" are long gone. The switch to digital TV was done, on many stations, during a newscast. One of the station's reporters would be out at the transmitter site, along with the engineers, and they'd show the engineer pushing the button to kill the analog signal. They created a party atmosphere around the change. Other stations just did it with no fanfare; just a crawl on the screen, telling viewers they were about to turn off the analog transmitter. Now, there's a gradual conversion in process from the ATSC 1.0 system, to ATSC 3.0. This is much like the switch, in the UK, from DVB-T to DVB-T2. NTSC was made to sound worse than it really was. The system was capable of some fine colour pictures. It was definitely better than the non-compatible, sequential scan, electromechanical system CBS developed, with a spinning colour wheel in front of the screen.