2/2021: Earle, since this was produced back in 2018, I wonder if you have produced or are considering an UPDATE on your TOP NINE (or more) BASEBALL GAMES?
I loved Big League Manager (BLM) Baseball. It was a terrific replay game, with quite a few full years of the major leagues. I liked the decisions: what base to throw to, whether to cut the ball off, steals, etc. I played the game from 1964 through 1979, and had draft leagues with my buddies. It was based on stats, had 100x100 boards and a spinner, and the pitcher's stats would modify the batter's stats. I also had BLM Football and BLM Basketball. It is long out of print.
Thanks for the list! Can't go wrong. I'm a payoff pitch and hmb guy myself, but enjoy all of them. Payoff pitch with dice and fac to handle stealing and baserunning means no charts and a 15-20 minute game. Perfect!
I have the 1980 version of Status Pro 06:30 .... it was my second favorite game behind Superstar Baseball (SI) ... and the part that I loved was the Pitcher Reduction chart. It forced you to make pitching changes. :-)
One thing that I always liked about Statis Pro baseball is the fact that they take the outfielder arm into consideration. It is something that I never considered when I was younger.
A guy on another channel did Replay Baseball and it looked pretty simple. He also said you could play a game in a half hour or less. Funny how different people see it different ways.
@@TabletopBaseballPlus Replay was much faster and less "clumsy" with the tall pitcher cards. (cira '89) They now offer the option of tall or "new" column / row pitcher cards. I recently ordered new game and optioned for the tall pitcher cards. Still get pitcher/hitter interaction but much smoother. Less result? Probably, but really needed? Perhaps not.
Great video! Strat is the only one on your list that I’ve ever played. Cadco Ethan Allen All Star Baseball started it for me though. It wasn’t super realistic but it started the fire in the early 80s for me. I wore those spinners out! Ha. My bro in law bought it for me. He told me that if I liked it I would lover Strat O Matic. I could never find it though until the Internet age. Anyway. Thanks for the video! I want to play some more of these games.
I definitely agree with you on the PDF version versus a pre-printed game. I have found that about 4 out of 5 times, for me anyways, after printing off a game I wish I had just went ahead and invested in a better version.
I started with Statis Pro in the early 80s, went to Strat in the late 80s, discovered Replay in 2008, and tried Payoff Pitch, History Maker, and Inside Pitch since. Like yourself, I like them all. Totally opposite of yourself, Replay is my fave and Strat is my least fave. But I've replayed full seasons with PC Strat and PC Replay, and I find that they both do real good at coming believably close to real life. Can't go wrong either way! BIGGEST UPS AND DOWNS OF EACH: Statis Pro. UP: No dice, very quick play. Pitcher/batter interaction creates an actual palpable feeling of a dominant pitcher's dominance or a lousy pitcher's lousiness. DOWN: Lefty/righty element almost nonexistent (I know later fan-made sets have addressed this, but it makes the cards a headache to read), catcher's throwing arm almost nonexistent. Strat-O-Matic: UP: Sheer accessibility. No learning curve at all. Extremely easy-to-interpret cards. DOWN: The 50/50 pitcher/batter element makes every superstar a generic player in half of his at-bats, basestealing system that turns mediocre runners into speed demons, and almost no rare plays. Replay: UP: Fielding comes into play quite often. Rare play element is fun and believable. Each ballpark's foul territory is specific. DOWN: A bit light on the lefty/righy element, no rule for bringing outfielders in for walk-off situations, hitters' cards seem like just a jungle of numbers until after MANY games played. Payoff Pitch: UP: Nifty pitcher/batter interaction. DOWN: The hitters have lefty/righty split, but the pitchers don't. History Maker: UP: Narrative imagery, individualized umpires (!!!), clubhouse drama. DOWN: Stealing is rather generic, and all players have equal bunting skill. Inside Pitch: UP: Best pitcher/batter interaction I've ever seen. DOWN: Ballpark effects impact Ks and Ws, but not foul pop-ups, rule book is not as well-written as it could be.
Very Nice Video Earle, Well Done My Friend. Great to see my Big 3 make it into Your Top 4....Stratomatic, APBA and Pine Tar. These are Great TTBB Games to Play and Us in the TTBB Community are a Super Bunch of Guys Playing these Wonderful Games. Everyone has their Favorite and Love's to Tell others about them and Discuss the Pro and Cons of each Game. Been Playing Strat Since the Mid 1970's and I would Love to have Strat Make More Seasons Available to Us, The Strat Playing Community. That's a Big Plus for APBA for anyone who Especially Loves the Old School Teams and Certain ERA's Like the Deadball ERA. Thanks Again and To All the TTBB Players, Keep on Rolling!!!!!
I can get two games of Replay Baseball in an hour. Its actually the fastest flowing baseball game I play, and I've played all of the games on your list. There's also a PC version.
Miss your videos. I started buying Strat in 1966, kept going for 30 years. Tried APBA and didn't like it. I got back to APBA and number1 now. Reasons: Quick play, stats great card quality and CARD ALL PLAYERS!
I can't believe I spent a half hour watching this and enjoyed every second. I bought box seat awhile back but I havent played it yet. Looks like a very good game. "Inside the Crease" and "Inside Blitz" are good games for hockey and football, respectively. negative about strat-o-matic.....seasons get sold out!
APBA was my first table baseball game, and my relationship with it is the same as yours. It has its flaws, but 1) it’s easy and fun to play and 2) it’s super fast. A lot of games claim they can be played in 30 minutes, but APBA can actually back it up.
Thank you for the video. Respectfully disagree. I got lured into thinking Strat-O-Matic was the only game to play because they marketed the game so well back in the 1980s. The 50/50 game play is frustrating. While I understand probability over the course of a 162-game season, when you bring in a dominant closer and five of the next six rolls are batter card rolls, in my opinion it lacks realism. The card setup and ease of play are excellent, but with this glaring weakness, I feel there are better options than Strat. Thanks again
You make an outstanding point about the rule books for a lot of these games. Love your list. I've played all the games except Pine Tar which I've been aware of, but never really had the bug to buy. I agree completely that I would play any of those games at any time.
Does anyone remember a tabletop game called Longball? I remember my dad playing it as a kid, but the game is super rare. Was made in the mid 70's and only had a few seasons. Wish he or I still had it.
Great list! I currently own 4 baseball games, two of which you listed. My rankings: 1. Strat-o-matic 2. Dugout Steps (by FTP sports) - definitely on the more complex side of the things but I've grown to really like the game engine 3. Inside Pitch 4. Fall Classic Baseball I am planning on picking up Payoff Pitch in the near future, I love the fact it has the college softball teams, nice little unique twist.
Since 9 months ago when I last commented I have spent my retirement with a bucket list of table top BB games to try and SO MANY have come out the last 10-15 years. Following is my top 9 after my experience. #1 Field Day BB , #2 Fall Classic BB (No ,I have nothing to do w/ASG or anybody connected) #3 Pine Tar (would be higher if more seasons and CUT THE CARDS. If I am going to pay $60 bucks for a set of cards they had better be cut.) #4 SOM #5 APBA #6Payoff Pitch #7 Replay BB #8 Statis-Pro and # 9 History Maker (crap cards). Many like Inside Pitch , Saber BB, and Dynasty are to intense or to much work for me.
Herb Pilgrim like Earle, I grew up on Apba, it’ll always have a spot in my heart, I only started strat last year so I’m still learning, I’m really enjoying Dynasty atm
I love this game! I've printed out the 1954 season, and I'm in the middle of a 1966 season replay using The Board Reader which is NPNG+ on a spreadsheet
This is a great overview. Very helpful to someone who is considering purchasing or branching out. I like how you showed the cards for most of the games too. We all have our preferences and I thought you did a good job of balancing your comments objectively, yet still explaining your "rankings" based on your preferences. I'm looking to add another game that has more realistic injuries, etc - even at the expense of a slightly more complicated game. Even in the MG, I don't think APBA does this as well as it could.
Thanx for the perspective , I have 3 so far that I have chosen , one of course is strat , my biggest complaint with strat especially with their other sports games is trying to find certain classic team card sets is hard not to mention pricey ..The 2nd being n my #1 go to .....Baseball Classics which doesn't get much press except for Kurt Bergland ...very simple n quick playing .. definitely worth checking out if you haven't already with 3 different versions ...standard ,deluxe or premium cards ...3rd. Deadball which I actually hybrid with a baseball game design I came up with ... definitely enjoy all your vids especially the bowl bound ones 😁
Just saw this. Great job, as always, by Earl. Good mix of older games and newer ones. Two games that always seem to be missing from these lists are Playball (which has the feel of the midrange APBA game everyone clamors for) and Ball Park (the best draft-league game anyone has devised and one which has every season available). Hats off to APBA & Strat. I, too, have played more games with those cards than any other. But if it were me, I'd pick Ball Park over Dynasty and Playball (by the maker of the more popular but I feel inferior Fall Classic) over Pine Tar. Payoff Pitch intrigues me as a simplified Inside Pitch. I have HMB but have never played it. I've struggled with Plaay's "attritubtes" based approach, though I get why some dig it.
Enjoyed the review! SOM computer baseball is my number 1 choice. Inside Pitch is based on the DIPS stats, pitching controls K's, BB's, HBP, and HR's. I don't like the ballparks effecting K's and BB's theory based on ballpark background effecting results. It is very close to being a 50/50 system except the DIPS emphasis point to getting results. They have a computer game, but it has no autoplay to run several replays to confirm stat accuracy. I would buy this game if the stat accuracy could be confirmed through testing. I like the APBA system, but just using pitcher grades, to me, is just too game subjective for results.
Pine Tar Baseball really interests me for sure but at this time looks like things are sold out and the person that is behind it is out of action til Dec. 15th and so no buy and likely no money to buy it when new stock is in. As for the #1 ranked game for you well I could try to play Strat-O-Matic Baseball again using the basic rules but the only time I played it that way I felt there was too much realism missing. I tried to move up to the next level of play and couldn't handle the play. There was no flow to the game. It felt like I was in math class and had no clue what was being taught. So to finish up out of the other games mentioned what is most like Pine Tar Baseball? I kind of was hoping to pick something up today possibly for Black Friday. I still may end up just getting PC Replay Baseball as it has the cards built into it but you don't have to worry about them all unless you want to. Anyway thanks for the video eh. Enjoy your gaming.
Good to see another opinion about these games. There's a lot out there and there are a lot of options someone can chose from. I have APBA which I enjoy very much though there are some things about it I'd like to see added/changed. As with any of these games, a person can add home rules and make changes/additions to many of these items. A lot of it depends on what a person wants in a game. I enjoy having a lot of detail as well as making a lot of decisions when I play even though it sacrifices flow and simplicity and it takes longer to prepare lineups and play. I play the APBA master game with some modifications plus some home rules. I like that APBA has a lot of seasons available. In some of the years this includes Federal League and American Association teams. It also has some of the great Negro League teams available. These are all big pluses for APBA over probably every other game on the market but there are limitations with what APBA offers. APBA doesn't sell every season. It offers 1883 and every season from 1901 forward. One project I've thought of is a worst teams tournament. I have the 1962 season so I have the 1962 Mets and I have some seasons with some very bad Browns and Phillies teams but I'd really like to have the 20-134 1899 Cleveland Spiders and the 23-113 1890 Pittsburgh Alleghenys for the tournament. Another limitation is that APBA doesn't offer every player in every season. Another project idea I had was a "save the 1952 Bucs" project. I was going to play every game of the 42-112 1952 Pirates with 1 caveat. I would add any 2 players not on the 1952 club from franchise history. I was thinking of putting Brian Giles from one of his fine years in center field and adding Jack Chesbro from the 1902 Pirates. However, the set APBA offers for 1952 only includes 25 players per team. This is a major flaw when doing a replay of any length imo so I scraped the project. I'd also like to see all master symbols updated to have separate batter splits against left and right handed pitchers rather than the single symbol. I'd also like to see all pitchers have ratings for wild pitchers and balks. I understand APBA is a business and they have cards for many seasons stored away that they would have to replace but all these changes would improve the game. There are also some other modifications I've thought of which I may play around with using house rules.
2/22/21: 2/2021: Earle, since this was produced back in 2018, I wonder if you have produced or are considering an UPDATE on your TOP NINE (or more) BASEBALL GAMES?
APBA is expensive. $ 30 for only four (4) 2019 Teams. Want a full deck of 1968 teams? Prepare for another $70.00 I recently got Replay with nine (9) great 60s teams .... total $57.00
Apba would be #1 if they’d just go to the 3 game system like you mentioned. They have every season available unlike all the other games which is the most frustrating thing. I have certain seasons and eras I enjoy playing and they are hard to get without selling off an arm and a leg to get them 😂
Excellent video. This influenced some of my buying decisions. I picked up Pine Tar Baseball. I really like it. The player card sheets take some getting used to, but after I put them back to back in sheet protectors, I've learned to like them. I also picked up APBA Baseball (basic game). I love it. I totally see how this was in your top 2.
Great video! I was wondering if you have played Bottom of the 9th and Baseball Highlights 2045? I know they are not simulation games, but they look at baseball from a very unique perspective. They also, I think, expose other people to this side of the hobby who may not even look at more serious tabletop sports games. I actually love them both. By the way, my top 5 would be: 1. History Maker (love the uniqueness of it) 2. Statis-Pro (like you with APBA, this is in my blood - have played it since the 70s) 3. PineTar 4. Payoff Pitch 5. Sports Illustrated / Superstar (not a great system - but fond memories of playing it as a teenager and love the all-star feel. usually have time to just play 1 off games and this is quick and simple and scratches that itch).
Thank you for taking the time to give this ranking some thought and sharing your list. You have now answered the question that I have thought about from time-to-time while watching your videos.....what are YOUR favorite baseball games? Now I know, and since it is YOUR list, I can not dispute your observations. Insightful & interesting...thank you! Pete
Living in Oklahoma, at your tabletop baseball park, do the concessions sell onionburgers or a Dodger Dogs? I could gorge myself on either or both, but I can only make onionburgers in Tennessee, as there are no Dodger minor league affiliates here. You are a lucky Dodgerdog to have access via OKC. Love your channel. You are the Mickey Mantle, Johnny Callison, Johnny Bench of tabletop baseball. Or, if you are a pitcher, you are the Calvin Coolidge Julies Caesar Tuskahoma McLish of tabletop baseball. I chose him over the McDaniel brothers, because Cal was from Edmond, which is a Route 66 town.
Gotta agree with most of what you said re Strat and APBA Earle, but I gotta disagree with one aspect: in my experience, APBA Basic plays much, much quicker than Strat Basic does; I can knock out an APBA game in around 30-40 minutes, whereas Strat takes me at least an hour to complete a game. There are two major pet peeves I have with Strat that APBA fixes for me personally: one is the kinda clunky base stealing system in Strat, and as I prefer simple elegance to a degree, APBA fixes this by having automatic base stealing in the Basic game that I know you have a measure of distaste for, but for me, that actually means that my APBA games go much more quickly than most of the other games I’ve played and have yet to play. The other is the near constant chart checking that goes on with even Strat Basic (two-sided charts mean I gotta make sure I’m reading the “right” chart, and that near constant chart checking does eat up loads of time. Thankfully APBA fixes this by having situational charts based upon base runners. It’s a slight pain to have to flip back and forth, but that’s fairly easily remedied... although Post It notes might not be the sturdiest tab markers in the world... Anyways great video Earle and since I’m a relative newbie to this great hobby of tabletop sports gaming compared to people like yourself who’ve been playing for a much longer time, this definitely helps me out. Thanks!
Earle, Loved this video! I agree with you on the over-reliance on fielding in some games, and I also prefer to order cards to PDFs because of the reasons you mentioned as well. I haven't played Dynasty, Pine Tar or (perhaps surprisingly) APBA. For what it's worth, my list: 1) Inside Pitch Baseball 2) Replay Baseball 3) Ball Park Baseball - definitely not for everyone because of the learning curve but interesting nuances and they offer every season from 1894 to the present 4) Strat-O-Matic Baseball 5) Payoff Pitch Baseball 6) Statis-Pro Baseball (I like the advanced version that Derrick Beckner produces) 7) History Maker Baseball And like you, I think even the games near the bottom of my list are good games that are worth a spin. If I own it, I play it and I enjoy it. Thanks for all your great videos! Dave J
Cool - again, it's different from the others. It's a "dip a toe in before you jump in" game. You can buy as few as two teams and their parks, plus the play book to try it out.
Great video Earle... I understand that it is splitting hairs as far as the game rankings go, but you said one of your issues with Payoff Pitch is its lack of season choices, yet you didn't say the same for Pine Tar Baseball. One of the reasons I have yet to purchase Pine Tar is because of its severe lack of seasons available. Payoff Pitch has 18 seasons available between 1900-2017, including the newest season and one pre-1900 season. Pine Tar has 4 seasons available between 1880-1899 and only 6 seasons available between 1900-2017, plus a couple of special sets. Obviously, you have no control over that, and I cannot comment on the game, having never played Pine Tar, but the card sets they offer are seriously limited...
Bob Borowik those 2 games were very tough to place. Could have gone either way. Ease of gameplay with Pine Tar gave it the node, but barely. I really like Payoff Pitch.
Geez Earle, my favorite 3 games come in at 9, 8, and 7? No love! Seriously, great video. Always great to hear honest opinions from other gamers. Truth be told, your Guidry replay sold me on buying Replay.
Cool to learn at about 10:00 in that fielding does not matter. Have been following baseball for 50 years, and could have sworn that the fielding skills of a team make a difference in wins and losses. But apparently not.
Great video! I’m so torn on which one to get. I keep looking at Fall Classic because I wanna play with Ruth and the Yankees. So many great games! If you only had one to go with and it’s your first baseball game, which one?
I'm very late on watching this and thanks for taking your gaming time to create the list. I don't know if you know it, but the attributes for the pitchers and hitters for History Maker Baseball is based on their individual stats. You, the game player, can make cards for sets or teams that are not available by purchasing and using the guide that is available at the plaay.com site. I also own the father, or grandfather, of Dynasty Baseball, named Pursue the Pennant. The one negative as for as Strat-O-Matic is concerned is that for past seasons you don't get every player that played, which makes it a little tough for those of us that like to replay seasons "as played" (actual transactions, actual starting lineups, actual starting pitchers). Other people also considered customer service of the companies, which doesn't factor in the game playing. Thanks for your list.
Earle, I'm most familiar with your #s 6 and 1. (Dynasty and SOM). The feature that I really like about Dynasty is the possibility of rainouts, and I think it even has fights occasionally, right? The "bizarre plays" feature is great. Thanks for the rundown of your top 9. I'd probably have picked Dynasty higher, but you know the others a lot better than I do. Great job!
This is a stat based game. The attributes are assigned by stats. This game uses the same stats as everyone else uses. It presents it in a different manor. If you buy the "how to" it explains how everything works and you can make your own teams.
Great review Earl! My only problem with Stratomatic is that they archive too many seasons that have been created in Super Advanced. Why not keep them all available for sale. Their marketing strategy does not make sense.
Yep. I'm just getting into the baseball simulation game and when I went on the SOM site I immediately looked for my home town 70's Reds. There was much sadness.
Great video Earl. Very good points on all games. I have Pay Off Pitch and love the batter/pitcher interaction. How do you compare Pay Off Pitch with Inside Pitch?
I really like Payoff Pitch, it's vaulted above Inside Pitch for me. They are both similar, but POP is a little smoother when using the FAC's for the base running and range and error checks. I don't think you can go wrong with either one.
@@TabletopBaseballPlus Thanks Earl. I use the hybrid style on Pay Off Pitch. I roll the dice for at-bats and use the FAC for runner advancement, steals, bunts and defense checks. It flows fast that way. You should see Josh Hader's card in Pay Off_nearly all Tough and some Tough Outs. I Hope to try Inside Pitch too.
Hi E ! Love this vid..!...I like APBA best....Used to have Strat as #1...But,changed their ranking ....Still play it...But,not as much...HAVE A GREAT DAY,E!!...GOD BLESS ALL..!!!
Can you give me your opinion on the board game "Bottom of the Ninth?" I think this could be a good solo game for me but, I wonder how complicated it is. I would love your thoughts!
Thank you...it looks like it might be a solid game. If you ever get it, please let me know what you think...(It appears to have tension but I'm not sure if it gets lost in mechanics).
Wow nice video. I had no idea there were so many B-BALL board games. I’ve been researching B-BALL games on the market as I have a copyright on a B-BALL board game. I’ve been sitting on since the late 70’s. I’ll be marketing in the near future. It is simple and very realistic. Strikes, balls, double plays, and grand slams. You can steal or even take a chance on a double steal
I grew up with APBA and will always have a special place in my heart for it. But the base stealing isn't the only major issue. Grade A pitchers don't give up enough hits, and Grade Ds give up too many. The pitching grades are formulated to force ERA, and as a result, sometimes batting average-against for pitchers is off by quite a bit for the best and worst groups of pitchers.
I've played ALL of 'em since 1967 and I have to say that SOM is the best, (for me the board and computer versions) all round. Stats, game play, etc. Not knocking any other games by the way because I like all of them.
Because I've played 'em all like I said. I didn't realize you were still playing basket-ball! On second thought that's about all the rules you can handle in a sports sim! LOL!!
Fall Classic by ASG did not make your list. Have you played it? I’m curious to know if you have tried it since you made this video and if you have - where it would rank on your list.
Surprised you didn't mention the baserunning in Inside Pitch since that's what everyone seems to comment on -- not a complaint but folks say it takes a while to figure out. Also Pine Tar has the unique feature of rating starting pitchers for their third time through the lineup.
I know of no game that captures the caught stealing plus pickoff as a general result or a measurable skill. For example, the pitcher catches the runner leaning and he breaks for second and is caught stealing. SOM has rolling for the runner to get a lead with a pickoff chance. However; it would be nice the pitcher could force the non lead steal on occasion to grasp the pitcher's skill for this. Steve Carlton was good for this skill and Rickey Henderson had it happen to him a lot in his record breaking season.
Man you are so right about how most rule books are written- not written well. Just like you say- it wouldn't hurt to over explain things and explain like your talking to a 3 yr old.
His criticisms of Replay Baseball can be made of any and every tabletop baseball game, especially his favorite Strat-o-Matic. Sadly, when he got to Strat, he says "I can't really say anything negative about the game." Dude, go back and watch what you said about Replay Baseball and say the exact same thing. My take, disregard this video. This is a Strat guy commenting on games he doesn't play much.
Apba would be #1 if they’d just go to the 3 game system like you mentioned. They have every season available unlike all the other games which is the most frustrating thing. I have certain seasons and eras I enjoy playing and they are hard to get without selling off an arm and a leg to get them 😂
I played over 1K games of SOM for 30 years, but when I started APBA 2 years ago it has become my #1 and have played 500+ games of it.
2/2021: Earle, since this was produced back in 2018, I wonder if you have produced or are considering an UPDATE on your TOP NINE (or more) BASEBALL GAMES?
I don't know the author, but I enjoyed this "back porch" assessment of his top-ten games from a southern gentleman. Thank you, Dr. TC
I loved Big League Manager (BLM) Baseball. It was a terrific replay game, with quite a few full years of the major leagues. I liked the decisions: what base to throw to, whether to cut the ball off, steals, etc. I played the game from 1964 through 1979, and had draft leagues with my buddies. It was based on stats, had 100x100 boards and a spinner, and the pitcher's stats would modify the batter's stats. I also had BLM Football and BLM Basketball. It is long out of print.
Thanks for the list! Can't go wrong. I'm a payoff pitch and hmb guy myself, but enjoy all of them. Payoff pitch with dice and fac to handle stealing and baserunning means no charts and a 15-20 minute game. Perfect!
I have the 1980 version of Status Pro 06:30 .... it was my second favorite game behind Superstar Baseball (SI) ... and the part that I loved was the Pitcher Reduction chart. It forced you to make pitching changes. :-)
One thing that I always liked about Statis Pro baseball is the fact that they take the outfielder arm into consideration. It is something that I never considered when I was younger.
A guy on another channel did Replay Baseball and it looked pretty simple. He also said you could play a game in a half hour or less. Funny how different people see it different ways.
Replay is tough to get done in 30min, more like 45.
@@TabletopBaseballPlus Replay was much faster and less "clumsy" with the tall pitcher cards. (cira '89) They now offer the option of tall or "new" column / row pitcher cards. I recently ordered new game and optioned for the tall pitcher cards. Still get pitcher/hitter interaction but much smoother. Less result? Probably, but really needed? Perhaps not.
Great video! Strat is the only one on your list that I’ve ever played. Cadco Ethan Allen All Star Baseball started it for me though. It wasn’t super realistic but it started the fire in the early 80s for me. I wore those spinners out! Ha. My bro in law bought it for me. He told me that if I liked it I would lover Strat O Matic. I could never find it though until the Internet age. Anyway. Thanks for the video! I want to play some more of these games.
I definitely agree with you on the PDF version versus a pre-printed game. I have found that about 4 out of 5 times, for me anyways, after printing off a game I wish I had just went ahead and invested in a better version.
I started with Statis Pro in the early 80s, went to Strat in the late 80s, discovered Replay in 2008, and tried Payoff Pitch, History Maker, and Inside Pitch since. Like yourself, I like them all. Totally opposite of yourself, Replay is my fave and Strat is my least fave. But I've replayed full seasons with PC Strat and PC Replay, and I find that they both do real good at coming believably close to real life. Can't go wrong either way!
BIGGEST UPS AND DOWNS OF EACH:
Statis Pro. UP: No dice, very quick play. Pitcher/batter interaction creates an actual palpable feeling of a dominant pitcher's dominance or a lousy pitcher's lousiness. DOWN: Lefty/righty element almost nonexistent (I know later fan-made sets have addressed this, but it makes the cards a headache to read), catcher's throwing arm almost nonexistent.
Strat-O-Matic: UP: Sheer accessibility. No learning curve at all. Extremely easy-to-interpret cards. DOWN: The 50/50 pitcher/batter element makes every superstar a generic player in half of his at-bats, basestealing system that turns mediocre runners into speed demons, and almost no rare plays.
Replay: UP: Fielding comes into play quite often. Rare play element is fun and believable. Each ballpark's foul territory is specific. DOWN: A bit light on the lefty/righy element, no rule for bringing outfielders in for walk-off situations, hitters' cards seem like just a jungle of numbers until after MANY games played.
Payoff Pitch: UP: Nifty pitcher/batter interaction. DOWN: The hitters have lefty/righty split, but the pitchers don't.
History Maker: UP: Narrative imagery, individualized umpires (!!!), clubhouse drama. DOWN: Stealing is rather generic, and all players have equal bunting skill.
Inside Pitch: UP: Best pitcher/batter interaction I've ever seen. DOWN: Ballpark effects impact Ks and Ws, but not foul pop-ups, rule book is not as well-written as it could be.
Wonderful Earle love all your videos your just a great contributer to the tabletop community and I thank you
Very Nice Video Earle, Well Done My Friend. Great to see my Big 3 make it into Your Top 4....Stratomatic, APBA and Pine Tar. These are Great TTBB Games to Play and Us in the TTBB Community are a Super Bunch of Guys Playing these Wonderful Games. Everyone has their Favorite and Love's to Tell others about them and Discuss the Pro and Cons of each Game. Been Playing Strat Since the Mid 1970's and I would Love to have Strat Make More Seasons Available to Us, The Strat Playing Community. That's a Big Plus for APBA for anyone who Especially Loves the Old School Teams and Certain ERA's Like the Deadball ERA. Thanks Again and To All the TTBB Players, Keep on Rolling!!!!!
I can get two games of Replay Baseball in an hour. Its actually the fastest flowing baseball game I play, and I've played all of the games on your list. There's also a PC version.
Agree. Once you play a few you "remember" results and sometimes no need to even to to the chart.
I'm addicted to PC Replay Baseball. One game takes about 10 minutes, and the stat-keeping and visuals are excellent.
Miss your videos. I started buying Strat in 1966, kept going for 30 years. Tried APBA and didn't like it. I got back to APBA and number1 now. Reasons: Quick play, stats great card quality and CARD ALL PLAYERS!
I can't believe I spent a half hour watching this and enjoyed every second. I bought box seat awhile back but I havent played it yet. Looks like a very good game. "Inside the Crease" and "Inside Blitz" are good games for hockey and football, respectively. negative about strat-o-matic.....seasons get sold out!
APBA was my first table baseball game, and my relationship with it is the same as yours. It has its flaws, but 1) it’s easy and fun to play and 2) it’s super fast. A lot of games claim they can be played in 30 minutes, but APBA can actually back it up.
Thank you for the video.
Respectfully disagree. I got lured into thinking Strat-O-Matic was the only game to play because they marketed the game so well back in the 1980s. The 50/50 game play is frustrating. While I understand probability over the course of a 162-game season, when you bring in a dominant closer and five of the next six rolls are batter card rolls, in my opinion it lacks realism. The card setup and ease of play are excellent, but with this glaring weakness, I feel there are better options than Strat.
Thanks again
You make an outstanding point about the rule books for a lot of these games. Love your list. I've played all the games except Pine Tar which I've been aware of, but never really had the bug to buy. I agree completely that I would play any of those games at any time.
Does anyone remember a tabletop game called Longball? I remember my dad playing it as a kid, but the game is super rare. Was made in the mid 70's and only had a few seasons. Wish he or I still had it.
blackandblue10 loved Longball the pitcher ratings those big play boards that opened up very cool
@@stevero816 Yes! It has a "sacrifice fly" attempt chart!! Love it.
First baseball game I ever had. I thought it was great.
I like the paintings over your left shoulder.
Great list! I currently own 4 baseball games, two of which you listed. My rankings:
1. Strat-o-matic
2. Dugout Steps (by FTP sports) - definitely on the more complex side of the things but I've grown to really like the game engine
3. Inside Pitch
4. Fall Classic Baseball
I am planning on picking up Payoff Pitch in the near future, I love the fact it has the college softball teams, nice little unique twist.
Since 9 months ago when I last commented I have spent my retirement with a bucket list of table top BB games to try and SO MANY have come out the last 10-15 years. Following is my top 9 after my experience. #1 Field Day BB , #2 Fall Classic BB (No ,I have nothing to do w/ASG or anybody connected) #3 Pine Tar (would be higher if more seasons and CUT THE CARDS. If I am going to pay $60 bucks for a set of cards they had better be cut.) #4 SOM #5 APBA #6Payoff Pitch #7 Replay BB #8 Statis-Pro and # 9 History Maker (crap cards). Many like Inside Pitch , Saber BB, and Dynasty are to intense or to much work for me.
Awesome video Earle, here’s my list of 4, that’s all I have.
1. Dynasty League
2. Strat o matic
3. Apba
4. Replay
I think I'd go with that assessment also Bryan. Hard to knock SOM off of the top, though...
Herb Pilgrim like Earle, I grew up on Apba, it’ll always have a spot in my heart, I only started strat last year so I’m still learning, I’m really enjoying Dynasty atm
Great review. I'm curious: have you played NPNG+? If so, how do you compare it to APBA?
I love this game! I've printed out the 1954 season, and I'm in the middle of a 1966 season replay using The Board Reader which is NPNG+ on a spreadsheet
This is a great overview. Very helpful to someone who is considering purchasing or branching out. I like how you showed the cards for most of the games too. We all have our preferences and I thought you did a good job of balancing your comments objectively, yet still explaining your "rankings" based on your preferences. I'm looking to add another game that has more realistic injuries, etc - even at the expense of a slightly more complicated game. Even in the MG, I don't think APBA does this as well as it could.
Thanx for the perspective , I have 3 so far that I have chosen , one of course is strat , my biggest complaint with strat especially with their other sports games is trying to find certain classic team card sets is hard not to mention pricey ..The 2nd being n my #1 go to .....Baseball Classics which doesn't get much press except for Kurt Bergland ...very simple n quick playing .. definitely worth checking out if you haven't already with 3 different versions ...standard ,deluxe or premium cards ...3rd. Deadball which I actually hybrid with a baseball game design I came up with ... definitely enjoy all your vids especially the bowl bound ones 😁
What about Cadaco. Loved it when I was a kid. All my friends and I had our own personnel all-star team we would play against each other. Ah, NEGAMCO!
You should check out time travel baseball of you haven't already. It's #2 on my list. #1 is definitely STRAT-O-MATIC
Just saw this. Great job, as always, by Earl. Good mix of older games and newer ones. Two games that always seem to be missing from these lists are Playball (which has the feel of the midrange APBA game everyone clamors for) and Ball Park (the best draft-league game anyone has devised and one which has every season available). Hats off to APBA & Strat. I, too, have played more games with those cards than any other. But if it were me, I'd pick Ball Park over Dynasty and Playball (by the maker of the more popular but I feel inferior Fall Classic) over Pine Tar. Payoff Pitch intrigues me as a simplified Inside Pitch. I have HMB but have never played it. I've struggled with Plaay's "attritubtes" based approach, though I get why some dig it.
Enjoyed the review! SOM computer baseball is my number 1 choice. Inside Pitch is based on the DIPS stats, pitching controls K's, BB's, HBP, and HR's. I don't like the ballparks effecting K's and BB's theory based on ballpark background effecting results. It is very close to being a 50/50 system except the DIPS emphasis point to getting results. They have a computer game, but it has no autoplay to run several replays to confirm stat accuracy. I would buy this game if the stat accuracy could be confirmed through testing. I like the APBA system, but just using pitcher grades, to me, is just too game subjective for results.
Pine Tar Baseball really interests me for sure but at this time looks like things are sold out and the person that is behind it is out of action til Dec. 15th and so no buy and likely no money to buy it when new stock is in. As for the #1 ranked game for you well I could try to play Strat-O-Matic Baseball again using the basic rules but the only time I played it that way I felt there was too much realism missing. I tried to move up to the next level of play and couldn't handle the play. There was no flow to the game. It felt like I was in math class and had no clue what was being taught. So to finish up out of the other games mentioned what is most like Pine Tar Baseball? I kind of was hoping to pick something up today possibly for Black Friday. I still may end up just getting PC Replay Baseball as it has the cards built into it but you don't have to worry about them all unless you want to. Anyway thanks for the video eh. Enjoy your gaming.
Good to see another opinion about these games. There's a lot out there and there are a lot of options someone can chose from. I have APBA which I enjoy very much though there are some things about it I'd like to see added/changed. As with any of these games, a person can add home rules and make changes/additions to many of these items.
A lot of it depends on what a person wants in a game. I enjoy having a lot of detail as well as making a lot of decisions when I play even though it sacrifices flow and simplicity and it takes longer to prepare lineups and play. I play the APBA master game with some modifications plus some home rules.
I like that APBA has a lot of seasons available. In some of the years this includes Federal League and American Association teams. It also has some of the great Negro League teams available. These are all big pluses for APBA over probably every other game on the market but there are limitations with what APBA offers. APBA doesn't sell every season. It offers 1883 and every season from 1901 forward. One project I've thought of is a worst teams tournament. I have the 1962 season so I have the 1962 Mets and I have some seasons with some very bad Browns and Phillies teams but I'd really like to have the 20-134 1899 Cleveland Spiders and the 23-113 1890 Pittsburgh Alleghenys for the tournament.
Another limitation is that APBA doesn't offer every player in every season. Another project idea I had was a "save the 1952 Bucs" project. I was going to play every game of the 42-112 1952 Pirates with 1 caveat. I would add any 2 players not on the 1952 club from franchise history. I was thinking of putting Brian Giles from one of his fine years in center field and adding Jack Chesbro from the 1902 Pirates. However, the set APBA offers for 1952 only includes 25 players per team. This is a major flaw when doing a replay of any length imo so I scraped the project.
I'd also like to see all master symbols updated to have separate batter splits against left and right handed pitchers rather than the single symbol. I'd also like to see all pitchers have ratings for wild pitchers and balks. I understand APBA is a business and they have cards for many seasons stored away that they would have to replace but all these changes would improve the game. There are also some other modifications I've thought of which I may play around with using house rules.
2/22/21: 2/2021: Earle, since this was produced back in 2018, I wonder if you have produced or are considering an UPDATE on your TOP NINE (or more) BASEBALL GAMES?
Great Video!!! Watching this video has made me get back into playing BB sims. The down side is you made me spend like $300:)
APBA is expensive. $ 30 for only four (4) 2019 Teams. Want a full deck of 1968 teams? Prepare for another $70.00 I recently got Replay with nine (9) great 60s teams .... total $57.00
Apba would be #1 if they’d just go to the 3 game system like you mentioned. They have every season available unlike all the other games which is the most frustrating thing. I have certain seasons and eras I enjoy playing and they are hard to get without selling off an arm and a leg to get them 😂
Excellent video. This influenced some of my buying decisions. I picked up Pine Tar Baseball. I really like it. The player card sheets take some getting used to, but after I put them back to back in sheet protectors, I've learned to like them.
I also picked up APBA Baseball (basic game). I love it. I totally see how this was in your top 2.
Great video! I was wondering if you have played Bottom of the 9th and Baseball Highlights 2045? I know they are not simulation games, but they look at baseball from a very unique perspective. They also, I think, expose other people to this side of the hobby who may not even look at more serious tabletop sports games. I actually love them both.
By the way, my top 5 would be:
1. History Maker (love the uniqueness of it)
2. Statis-Pro (like you with APBA, this is in my blood - have played it since the 70s)
3. PineTar
4. Payoff Pitch
5. Sports Illustrated / Superstar (not a great system - but fond memories of playing it as a teenager and love the all-star feel. usually have time to just play 1 off games and this is quick and simple and scratches that itch).
John McGuinness I have heard of them and seen videos on them, but have never played them.
Thank you for taking the time to give this ranking some thought and sharing your list. You have now answered the question that I have thought about from time-to-time while watching your videos.....what are YOUR favorite baseball games? Now I know, and since it is YOUR list, I can not dispute your observations. Insightful & interesting...thank you! Pete
Pete BosoxFan 67 Pete, have you watched the pine tar giveaway video? You should!
Living in Oklahoma, at your tabletop baseball park, do the concessions sell onionburgers or a Dodger Dogs? I could gorge myself on either or both, but I can only make onionburgers in Tennessee, as there are no Dodger minor league affiliates here. You are a lucky Dodgerdog to have access via OKC. Love your channel. You are the Mickey Mantle, Johnny Callison, Johnny Bench of tabletop baseball. Or, if you are a pitcher, you are the Calvin Coolidge Julies Caesar Tuskahoma McLish of tabletop baseball. I chose him over the McDaniel brothers, because Cal was from Edmond, which is a Route 66 town.
Gotta agree with most of what you said re Strat and APBA Earle, but I gotta disagree with one aspect: in my experience, APBA Basic plays much, much quicker than Strat Basic does; I can knock out an APBA game in around 30-40 minutes, whereas Strat takes me at least an hour to complete a game. There are two major pet peeves I have with Strat that APBA fixes for me personally: one is the kinda clunky base stealing system in Strat, and as I prefer simple elegance to a degree, APBA fixes this by having automatic base stealing in the Basic game that I know you have a measure of distaste for, but for me, that actually means that my APBA games go much more quickly than most of the other games I’ve played and have yet to play.
The other is the near constant chart checking that goes on with even Strat Basic (two-sided charts mean I gotta make sure I’m reading the “right” chart, and that near constant chart checking does eat up loads of time. Thankfully APBA fixes this by having situational charts based upon base runners. It’s a slight pain to have to flip back and forth, but that’s fairly easily remedied... although Post It notes might not be the sturdiest tab markers in the world...
Anyways great video Earle and since I’m a relative newbie to this great hobby of tabletop sports gaming compared to people like yourself who’ve been playing for a much longer time, this definitely helps me out. Thanks!
Earle,
Loved this video! I agree with you on the over-reliance on fielding in some games, and I also prefer to order cards to PDFs because of the reasons you mentioned as well. I haven't played Dynasty, Pine Tar or (perhaps surprisingly) APBA.
For what it's worth, my list:
1) Inside Pitch Baseball
2) Replay Baseball
3) Ball Park Baseball - definitely not for everyone because of the learning curve but interesting nuances and they offer every season from 1894 to the present
4) Strat-O-Matic Baseball
5) Payoff Pitch Baseball
6) Statis-Pro Baseball (I like the advanced version that Derrick Beckner produces)
7) History Maker Baseball
And like you, I think even the games near the bottom of my list are good games that are worth a spin. If I own it, I play it and I enjoy it.
Thanks for all your great videos!
Dave J
Dave Jackson I'll check out Ballpark Baseball
Cool - again, it's different from the others. It's a "dip a toe in before you jump in" game. You can buy as few as two teams and their parks, plus the play book to try it out.
Great video Earle... I understand that it is splitting hairs as far as the game rankings go, but you said one of your issues with Payoff Pitch is its lack of season choices, yet you didn't say the same for Pine Tar Baseball. One of the reasons I have yet to purchase Pine Tar is because of its severe lack of seasons available. Payoff Pitch has 18 seasons available between 1900-2017, including the newest season and one pre-1900 season. Pine Tar has 4 seasons available between 1880-1899 and only 6 seasons available between 1900-2017, plus a couple of special sets. Obviously, you have no control over that, and I cannot comment on the game, having never played Pine Tar, but the card sets they offer are seriously limited...
Bob Borowik those 2 games were very tough to place. Could have gone either way. Ease of gameplay with Pine Tar gave it the node, but barely. I really like Payoff Pitch.
One major weakness of APBA Basic is that pitchers don’t impact extra base hits.
Geez Earle, my favorite 3 games come in at 9, 8, and 7? No love! Seriously, great video. Always great to hear honest opinions from other gamers. Truth be told, your Guidry replay sold me on buying Replay.
Cool to learn at about 10:00 in that fielding does not matter. Have been following baseball for 50 years, and could have sworn that the fielding skills of a team make a difference in wins and losses. But apparently not.
Great video! I’m so torn on which one to get. I keep looking at Fall Classic because I wanna play with Ruth and the Yankees. So many great games! If you only had one to go with and it’s your first baseball game, which one?
I'm very late on watching this and thanks for taking your gaming time to create the list. I don't know if you know it, but the attributes for the pitchers and hitters for History Maker Baseball is based on their individual stats. You, the game player, can make cards for sets or teams that are not available by purchasing and using the guide that is available at the plaay.com site. I also own the father, or grandfather, of Dynasty Baseball, named Pursue the Pennant. The one negative as for as Strat-O-Matic is concerned is that for past seasons you don't get every player that played, which makes it a little tough for those of us that like to replay seasons "as played" (actual transactions, actual starting lineups, actual starting pitchers). Other people also considered customer service of the companies, which doesn't factor in the game playing. Thanks for your list.
Earle, I'm most familiar with your #s 6 and 1. (Dynasty and SOM). The feature that I really like about Dynasty is the possibility of rainouts, and I think it even has fights occasionally, right? The "bizarre plays" feature is great. Thanks for the rundown of your top 9. I'd probably have picked Dynasty higher, but you know the others a lot better than I do. Great job!
This is a stat based game. The attributes are assigned by stats. This game uses the same stats as everyone else uses. It presents it in a different manor. If you buy the "how to" it explains how everything works and you can make your own teams.
Great review Earl! My only problem with Stratomatic is that they archive too many seasons that have been created in Super Advanced. Why not keep them all available for sale. Their marketing strategy does not make sense.
Yep. I'm just getting into the baseball simulation game and when I went on the SOM site I immediately looked for my home town 70's Reds. There was much sadness.
Great video Earl. Very good points on all games. I have Pay Off Pitch and love the batter/pitcher interaction. How do you compare Pay Off Pitch with Inside Pitch?
I really like Payoff Pitch, it's vaulted above Inside Pitch for me. They are both similar, but POP is a little smoother when using the FAC's for the base running and range and error checks. I don't think you can go wrong with either one.
@@TabletopBaseballPlus Thanks Earl. I use the hybrid style on Pay Off Pitch. I roll the dice for at-bats and use the FAC for runner advancement, steals, bunts and defense checks. It flows fast that way. You should see Josh Hader's card in Pay Off_nearly all Tough and some Tough Outs. I Hope to try Inside Pitch too.
Hi E !
Love this vid..!...I like APBA best....Used to have Strat as #1...But,changed their ranking ....Still play it...But,not as much...HAVE A GREAT DAY,E!!...GOD BLESS ALL..!!!
Can you give me your opinion on the board game "Bottom of the Ninth?" I think this could be a good solo game for me but, I wonder how complicated it is. I would love your thoughts!
I'm sorry but I havent played "Bottom of the Ninth"
Thank you...it looks like it might be a solid game. If you ever get it, please let me know what you think...(It appears to have tension but I'm not sure if it gets lost in mechanics).
Strat-O-Matic! THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!
Earle, thanks for video! I guessed 9/9 :) It would be interesting to see similar video from Earl too
Wow nice video. I had no idea there were so many B-BALL board games. I’ve been researching B-BALL games on the market as I have a copyright on a B-BALL board game. I’ve been sitting on since the late 70’s. I’ll be marketing in the near future. It is simple and very realistic. Strikes, balls, double plays, and grand slams. You can steal or even take a chance on a double steal
It doesn’t use stats from players but, a small child can enjoy it.
Fun for all.
I grew up with APBA and will always have a special place in my heart for it. But the base stealing isn't the only major issue. Grade A pitchers don't give up enough hits, and Grade Ds give up too many. The pitching grades are formulated to force ERA, and as a result, sometimes batting average-against for pitchers is off by quite a bit for the best and worst groups of pitchers.
Great stuff!
18:05, you're thinking of "Three true outcomes", also know as Fielding Independent Pitching
I've played ALL of 'em since 1967 and I have to say that SOM is the best, (for me the board and computer versions) all round. Stats, game play, etc. Not knocking any other games by the way because I like all of them.
how would you know. you only like basket-ball
Because I've played 'em all like I said. I didn't realize you were still playing basket-ball! On second thought that's about all the rules you can handle in a sports sim! LOL!!
I think steve g was confusing me with former NBA great 'Oscar Robertson'.
Big help to me! Thanks!
Fall Classic by ASG did not make your list. Have you played it? I’m curious to know if you have tried it since you made this video and if you have - where it would rank on your list.
Played a lot APBA growing up
Surprised you didn't mention the baserunning in Inside Pitch since that's what everyone seems to comment on -- not a complaint but folks say it takes a while to figure out. Also Pine Tar has the unique feature of rating starting pitchers for their third time through the lineup.
I know of no game that captures the caught stealing plus pickoff as a general result or a measurable skill. For example, the pitcher catches the runner leaning and he breaks for second and is caught stealing. SOM has rolling for the runner to get a lead with a pickoff chance. However; it would be nice the pitcher could force the non lead steal on occasion to grasp the pitcher's skill for this. Steve Carlton was good for this skill and Rickey Henderson had it happen to him a lot in his record breaking season.
Replay pitcher have a "hold" rating. Verlander would keep Rickey there in the Replay game more than many other pitchers.
.....You miss ' Deep Drive ' and 'Deadball'......ciao ,riccardo from Italia
I am surprised you don’t have SherCo II baseball on your list. When I was a teenager, my friends had Stratomatic, but I like SherCo better.
Man you are so right about how most rule books are written- not written well. Just like you say- it wouldn't hurt to over explain things and explain like your talking to a 3 yr old.
Gotta go with Sherco.... That's OLD SCHOOL!
My Top 5
1-History Maker Baseball👍🏻🔝🥇
2-Replay Baseball (old two Dice Version)🥈
3-Strat-o-matic 🥉
4-Statis pro
5-Apba
ever play pursue the pennant or dynasty ?
Replay offer an option to get the "old" tall pitchers cards to you can go back to 2 die. That's how I just ordered it.
What? No Superstar Baseball, the one with a photo of Babe Ruth on the cover of a brown box?
I was wondering if you ever played skeetersoft np3 computer baseball game and if so what do you think of it
Robert Baker i have looked at it, but no I haven't played it.
Great video!
Oh, it’s DIPS.
I think ...
HMB is my fave.
What about Bottom of the 9th?
I'm looking for people to play a strat league face to face on zoom
He forgot Gil Hidges Pennant Fever.
What is your favorite pc baseball games
Kenny Price I'm not really into the pc game's. Of the ones ive played, Dynasty League and OOTP would probably be my top 2.
Ill take action
DIPS era is the formula...defense independent pitching
Hey Earl...What about Ballpark Baseball's board game?
I have never played Ballpark Baseball
played statis pro alot 40 years ago., Never liked the pitcher card..it has no doubles, triples homers against
The pitcher card does include doubles.
Many Inside Pitch fielding and C/OF throwing ratings are historically very inaccurate. Not sure where the creator gets his research material.....
DIPS - Defense Independent Pitching Statistics
His criticisms of Replay Baseball can be made of any and every tabletop baseball game, especially his favorite Strat-o-Matic. Sadly, when he got to Strat, he says "I can't really say anything negative about the game." Dude, go back and watch what you said about Replay Baseball and say the exact same thing. My take, disregard this video. This is a Strat guy commenting on games he doesn't play much.
Apba would be #1 if they’d just go to the 3 game system like you mentioned. They have every season available unlike all the other games which is the most frustrating thing. I have certain seasons and eras I enjoy playing and they are hard to get without selling off an arm and a leg to get them 😂