there's something so inherently and unmistakably _sad_ about Gwyn's theme that transcends game mechanics or technical explanation, there's so much in those piano notes that feels like slow crumbling stuff, frost and dust; asphyxiation and a vast grayness... perfect for Dark Souls
I'd just like to add that the entire composition of the Gwyn, Lord of Cinder boss theme uses only the white keys. It's almost like the composition itself fears the Dark, just like Gwyn.
Gwyns fight was without a doubt one of the most emotional final boss fights. You've fought grand monsters, stared down dragons and won the great flames through trial of combat. You've harshed a swamp of poisons and braved a fortress of one thousands traps. You've died over and over, on the verge of losing your humanity. You've traverses the abyss and entered a soft and gentle world within a painting and traversed the palace of the gods. You've killed a dragon . You've experienced such grandeur and you finally reach the kiln of the first flame. The aether surrounds you as you step in, the unresting souls of the knights who died walk aimlessly. You enter this ashen, barren place and a sense of dread over comes you. There's no enemies. Not for a short while, which is odd. You're used to ay least lesser hollows stuck in their insanity, lone and cowering. Then you see your first enemy. A knight of Gwyn. He charges you, alone. Defending his lord to his final death. If you choose to fight, he dies if not, he chases you down, not willing to let you win. You continue and see a second. He charges too, the balance you gold on the thick, fallen beams covered in ash. If you loom you find the remains of a dead knight, lying on the edge of precipice. It was at this moment the desolation really hit me. There's nothing. Everything was burned away to ash aside from five knights. Strong but nothing compared to their former self. The bleak and grey colour scheme is a fair cry from the greys, greens and neon oranges we've seen before. There's nothing. As you reach the kiln, you find the final three guards, the best of the five knights, wielding the great axe, a weapon requiring enormous strength. The halberd, a weapon of emmense dexterity and speed but still unwieldy for most. After finishing them off, collecting the various shards they drop. And you're faced with a wall of fog. Eager to finish this, to fulfil your duty or usurp the mantle of lord you pass through. Instead of some hulking spider beast, or a pair of golden clad giants. Instead of a God, you see a man. And with him you hear the score. It's so basic, so plain compared to the other musical notes but it's beautiful. Standing there, flamong sword in hand, he jumps, willing to do anything to keep the flame burning as he had before. But he isn't a God. He's a husk. The remains of a god gone mad with want and fear. He charges, seeing you as a threat. The music doesn't change. Theres no crescendo, no powerful swell to indicate immense power. His attack is weak compared to what it once was. This musical score was one of the most amazing I'd ever heard in a game. The song at the end of the game was a perfect representation of the struggle to survive and to keep the flame going, despite its inevitable snuffing
You know it's funny. By the time I got to the fight with Gwyn I felt that I was overleveled. He was far from the most challenging battle and I felt a little disappointed. Thinking back on it now though, it's honestly rather fitting. By the time I came to defeat him the battle had already been won, he just didn't want to accept it.
@@tk_the_onion What?! People who like the story in a game that's known for telling its story through the world instead of cutscenes like the lore of the series?! I am shocked and appalled! Overbearing sarcasm aside, I think it's a brilliant story, and the fact thay he's so ignorant to the fact that anybody playing can enjoy it subconsciously without being forced into the generic canned animation cutscenes that were popular at the time is amazing.
Oh, I was going to write a comment about the booger kid segments but turns out you have a super awesome fan base that has said everything I could possibly say way better than I could have said it. I was honestly interested in hearing your thematic ideas on the music, and the booger kid was legitimately annoying because he was censoring my favorite part of the video.
I have NO FREAKING IDEA what is going on in this video... but I still find it SO FASCINATING. I'm definetly waching more of your stuff and sending it to my more musically inclined friends.
Yeah. It felt like you (8-Bit Music Theory) were self-censoring your earnest enthusiasm about the feelings and narrative they were able to convey musically. I would've loved to here you talk more about the narrative and was always mad at the snot-nosed kid for curtailing that. Infusing your video with some comedy was and is a good idea, but you don't need to self-criticize so much. Your opinions are valuable and we want to hear them!
All comedic elements other than 'booger kid" are great, probably due to their subtlety. Edit: Especially the Patreon plug, not as subtle- didn't need to be since its at the end of the video- but top notch.
Gotta agree, just like the subject you talk about your interest and observations hold us enough on their own, like you said in the video, repeating it just really breaks the rhythm and the flow. Other than that, could listen to this breakdown for hours.
Totally agree. Nice work beside that. I hope 8-bit Music Theory will do an episode about Shadow of The Comet : very short OST but excellent structure and delicious moogish 16bit textures.
A is lonliness B is false redemption(variation 2 is defeat) C is resignation thats how I initially receive it and that build up at C I think is meant to be last breath of will to fight 9:33 I feel like its the element of doubt 11:25 I think it can be called "realisation on what is to come"
also, please make more "how to develop small ideas into full song" type of videos. Stuff like arrangement and development. There seems to be a lack of good videos of this on youtube. Would love you long time.
"You can get away with writing 15 seconds of music and stretching it out however long it needs to be." *looks at Toby Fox *looks at Homestuck in general Yeah.
Would love to see some more videos on the Dark Souls OST. I'm not very buff on my music theory but there's a lot of motifs that get brought up, particularly with any of the chaos demon related fights (Quelaag, Centipede Demon etc). Exceptionally strong use of brass in those pieces and there's a 3 note descending pattern that's used in all of those fights that is kind of similar to Gwyn's motif. If anyone else has any cool DS soundtrack thoughts hmu I need that like I need hard drugs.
Well... DO you need hard drugs? Just trying to gauge how badly you need those videos? Like, it seems like you essentially just told all of us that you're into "hard" drugs. And if that is the case then all I have to say to you is "fuck yeah, man". 👌
I think I've learned more from you about composing/songwriting than from any other youtube channel and I've just watched 3 of your videos so far... great work!
Could I trouble you to dissect one Souls piece in particular? The Twin Princes from Dark Souls 3 [Yuka Kitamura - [Dark Souls III #21] Lorian, Elder Prince & Lothric, Younger Prince] is overpowering and forceful, but why?
The intro is very chaotic but unified like a fanfare over the tonic. Cluster chords and splashes of controlled dissonance increase the sense of density already established by the broad and large instrumentation, essentially filling holes between the steps of the consonant chords. As the violins carry the intro motifs, a harpsichord and eventually other strings begin a rhythmic acceleration, sending the behemoth sound flying faster without changing the tempo. Other moving lines in the texture surface such as in the cellos, creating a somewhat polyphonic motion. Eventually, the melody reduces to the first stand violins, evoking the twin princes themselves and taking on a somewhat lonesome or isolated tone within the frenzy that continues around them.. From here, a large homophonic progression ensues where the choir and brass take the center stage. Choirs often have a religious or regal atmosphere to them, especially in this arrangement and magnitude. The piece is no longer a frenzy but a controlled regality with imposing, slower rhythms than the intro and distinct harmonic progressions. For the most part, this section dances around the dominant without making it the dominant until the end of the section where it can resolve in a cadence. It keeps you on your toes but doesn't use dissonance or leading tones to do so until it wants to. Most of the overpowering nature comes from the sheer density of instrumentation.
This video was very interesting to me, I have studied the psychology of gaming and books, and it is great to see the musical science to it also. Thank you. Subbed.
watched most of your videos up to now. There's both clarity in explanations and analysis depth, please make a video about games that use layered tracks, such as Darkest Dungeon
Good point! I didn't hear much in common with Gwyn's theme and the rest of the soundtrack, but I would love it if someone corrected me on that 'cause it's not like I transcribed the whole OST or anything
Maybe that can be emphasizing how separated from the world he is? He's trying desperately to keep off the time of darkness because of the chaos it would bring but ironically enough he's only making things worse by prolonging the age of light. You can even hear similar music in the lord of Cinder fight in the end of DS3"s main campaign so that same symbolism of prolonging the inevitable and making things worse by doing so is still there.
The themes in the soundtrack seem to be all very different. Except the demon bosses. Taurus Demon, Chaos Witch Queelag, Ceaseless Discharge all share a certain melody (in the choir).
Somehow I missed this video. I would kill to have you analyze Motoi Sakuraba's battle music. His work in Souls was a real eye opener that he could branch out and do amazing things. But you know what's super rad? The Valkyrie Profile battle tune and all the others like it from Tales and many other sources. When you hear it you *always* know it's Sakuraba and I'd love to know more about how a composer can craft that sort of signature sound... hell, even if it isn't Sakuraba. I hear it in a lot of them.
oh btw, i think how the bass line repeats endlessly like a hollow, while the mighty theme of what gwyn once was plays over it trying to overshadow it, but never able to.
Wow, this video really helped me get some things about music structure to click in my head, and you've done a great job of explaining how different parts of the song fit together to build a powerful, unified piece. Your discussion of lore also provides good context for the piece as a whole and for particular sections of it. I particularly like the way you relate the notes trailing off toward the end to the flame burning out. Outstanding explanation, thank you!
I am absolutely no music nerd. I know basically 'nothing' about theory. Well I know a little but I'll sure try to learn more with your videos and try to understand what you mean with the theory I haven't learned yet. I'm 'learning' music theory because I like it by myself with no teacher by the help of the internet. I think I'm getting better and better with time while learning new things here and there. Hopefully one day I'll be able to learn enough to understand the what you say on the fly without pausing the vid and think too much about what you've just said. You sir have some super great content on your channel. I'm digging it even I don't have much knowledge to talk about theory too much. I'll get there one day with some determination. :)
MCDMars ahah I've been watching him wait before I have discovered 8-bit music theory. I like Adam Neely's video but he sometime gets into too deep stuff for me to the level of my understanding but I keep getting back to his vids MOAR than once to his videos. What I like of 8-bits is that he transcribe pieces and analyze it and it makes me thing about the things I know or believe I know till it proves me wrong. Another channel I really like to learn music theory it' "12tone"
I've been kinda obsessed with music theory videos for a few months now and this is easily one of my favourites. You're just changing my whole understanding of musical motifs.
Thank you SO MUCH for taking on this subject! This a theme that I've been discussing with friends, and been surprised that not many people noticed, haven't seen any of your videos before this one I was expecting a more narrative thematic analysis from the player's perspective. If you pay attention (assuming you go through the game in a more or less intended route) you can notice the rise of intensity in the music until you talk to Gwynevere, where your discover you role, and from then on a descending theme right up until the battle with Gwyn. Althought this was WAY more technical than I expected, I enjoyed it lot and learned a lot about music theory. Again, thank you so much!
So... OnlyAfro took simple mechanics and turned them into the amazing epitome of min-maxing PvP builds, Giant Dad. Motoi Sakuraba took simple motifs and turned them into a beautiful soundtrack, essentially min-maxing. ... OnlyAfro is Motoi Sakuraba confirmed!
this was the first video of yours that I had seen, and I would just like to say. it is utterly refreshing to listen to something about on Dark Souls I have no knowledge of. Brilliant work dood.
Absolutely loved everything about the analysis, but please, in the future, feel free to continue your thoughts on how the piece relates back to the themes of the game. Great video :)
I just found your channel and can't get enough of this.. I've watched all of your content in two days. I've been writing a lot lately and video game music has always been a huge inspiration for me. I think hearing ocarina of times soundtrack so much as a kid is what even got me into loving music in the first place. either way I absolutely love this stuff so keep going!
Okay, you are a saint for making this video. Sakuraba has honestly given me so much inspiration in my compositions and now I understand what he's doing it's lifesaving. Thanks :D
Dammit I freaking love this channels so much. It takes both of my loves of music and video games and analyzes what makes our favorites so great. It’s so interesting and so well done, thank you SO much. I hope all the best for this channel.
Nice video, but don't be afraid to put the theory in 8-bit music theory. You don't need to restrain yourself from the lore of the game based on one subset of your subscribers, and you don't need booger-kid.
For the short time I subbed, I noticed one thing. All your videos are gold! I'm super excited to see more, as each one of your videos can really make my day.
I've remembered and learnt a lot of composition techniques with your videos, and more importantly so, how to put them into practice with memorable examples. Thanks a lot for your videos!
As a senior in high school and a percussionist who took AP Music Theory and absolutely loved it, not to mention being a gamer from around the time the N64 came out, seeing two of my favorite things blended together in a channel like this is absolutely amazing. Thank you for your services.
Dude, the work you make is unbelievably good. I mean, there isn't more niche oriented shit to me than having a very specific dark souls theme used to explain music composing in less than 15 minutes. This is the first video I see and I just love you so much for putting this out there. Thank you so much and please keep up this amazing work
Love the bit about augmentation, never heard of it but I’ve seen it before. Yoko Shimomura does it I believe in “Sacred Moon” where she plays a broken motif of “Dearly Beloved”.
I would love to see a video discussing the music of kingdom hearts. I'm not really musically skilled, but something about KH's music keeps it stuck in my brain more than any other game I've played. Thank you for these amazing videos in general!
This is an incredible video, I'm about to binge on all your videos. I'm actually learning music theory from this, and that's smashing! Thank you for the work put into this video!
Just subbed today. I've only seen 2 videos so far but pleeeeeease keep going! It's been too long since I've even looked sideways at music theory and your videos are awesome and educational (and go way over my head sometimes but still interesting!). You actually spurred me to pull out my piano and play it again (haven't done that in a decade). Thank you!!!
Its nice to see every day there's more and more channels that go into the *art* part of videogames, making analysis and recognizing the hard work, talent and beauty that is behind a lot of really well made videogames. Its also nice to see that along all of these channels that analyse writing, structure, gameplay, music, lore... there's always a constant: Dark Souls. That game is definitely something else.
This is possibly the most useful video I've heard so far on this channel! Any recommendations on where to learn more about putting motifs in practice? I feel this is a big issue I've been trying to overcome as a composer (not only does it take 4x longer but my music tends to lack identity), and it'd be nice to learn more.
i havent played through all of dark souls, ive barely played ds 3, demons souls, and bb. ive been into elden ring recently though, a lot, and im ensnared in the souls franchise before. this is the first time ive heard "Gwyn, Lord of Cinder" and im in tears. what a beautiful piece and a fantastic dissection of it.
Hey, just found your channel, loving everything :) I've been playing guitar and writing since my early teens, now 26 and musically uneducated, but you're the first seemingly educated person I've listened to that I felt was giving _useful_ analysis -- most analysis I've found seems to be overly simplistic, be more of a reflection of the analyzer's mind rather than the piece itself, or worship the person who wrote it... but not so with you! Iow, it feels like you're objectively describing the most important elements of how a piece was actually composed which can be reapplied, rather than offering sophistry. Let's put it this way, you're making me strongly regret disregarding the academic perspective, haha. In many ways, you're putting labels on things I've already intuited from listening to music (e.g. effective/weird chord structures), and filling in gaps of knowledge I couldn't have accessed otherwise. I thought your FF7 and Mario videos were especially fantastic ;) Given my background (years of writing/playing/listening but no college music education), any advice on where to learn more effective composition, for games in particular? Or maybe that's what this channel is for... hmm. Keep up the great work!
Hey thanks man! I definitely know what you mean about a lot of musical analysis out there on the internet, and music academia comes with its own slew of problems. Musicians like yourself with a lot of playing experience but no formal education I think are actually in a really good spot to learn theory - learning rules of grammar is a lot easier if you already speak the language, y'know? I think the best way to learn how to compose is to analyze other pieces of music. Get deep into transcribing a lot of music, and try to find connections or similarities between pieces. Start analyzing scores from classical pieces that you like (imslp.org/ is a great resource for this). Look through a real book or find some charts for jazz tunes online and analyze their chord progressions. You'll find tons of ideas and patterns that show up all over the place, regardless of whatever genre or even century the songs were written in. Basically anything you can do to grow your vocabulary of compositional techniques is going to help, especially if you take the time to practice applying everything you find into compositions of your own. Hope that helps??? Thanks for checking out the channel!!
It does help, haha. I guess I keep hoping for a holy grail of "Here is the composition knowledge you need but never had," but I suppose it may be total red herring :/ The grammar-language analogy seems spot on (as a programmer I think about things in those terms all the time.) Thanks for the advice, I definitely need to recommit myself to analyzing more music (and probably more than just video game music) :)
Actually amazing, I am going to be learning chord theory from a music major friend of mine due to your videos. I understand vaguely about tonics and chord movements, and due to your videos, my curiosity has been piqued enough for me to want to learn and memorize fully.
I think... I'm going to marathon your videos. This one was really informative. Also, you don't have to downplay how the story and music are related. I think it really helped with the explanations.
Major theory fan and dark souls fan here. I loved music theory classes in high school, and I'm quite frankly amazed at how clear and concise you are with explaining your observations in this video. I feel bad for anyone that doesn't understand what you're talking about here, because this is really something special. I never put any thought into the final boss theme before, thank you.
I love your music lectures. I've been playing piano for 20 years and still learning more and more about music theory. I've never studied in college. These kinds of videos are great for moving forward from your basic music theory
Have you seen Game Theory video on the Dancer of the Boreal Valley? Pretty nice catch on the influence of music in gameplay. Loved the video btw XP. Your analysis was pretty rich and insightful :D.
Your videos are awesome!! I grew up listening exclusively to video game music, which I would hum and sing to myself all the time. Then I took a music theory class many years ago and loved it. But I never saw them brought together until your videos... and it's so inspirational!!! I honestly might get my keyboard and dig up my old copy of Sibelius to try my hand at composing again :)
I love how the ending seems so desperate and anxious when compared with the slow and sad start. It really brings forth the idea of an old king trying to hold to his last breath just a bit longer.
That bit at the end with the Patreon dropping the money corpse in the cell cracked me up. So, a thought about the piece. It's in A Minor at 120bpm, yes? A minor, being the relative minor of C Major, uses only white keys on a piano (excluding the notes that stray out of the key). And 120bpm is a pretty standard beats per minute. I've yet to find a composing software where the default bpm isn't 120. I find it pretty interesting that the song uses two fairly standard components in its structure; being a key which uses only white keys on the piano, and also a pretty standard beats per minute. I wonder if Sakuraba took these two things into account when composing this piece.
I LOVE you man, for this video. I always thought souls 1 and 2 had uniques pieces that I only ever found on jybh012's channel and then max Richter's pieces
because i am not very familiar with musical terminology i found it to be a bit of a challenge to follow along at first, but thanks to a combination of being very familiar with the sound of the song itself, and your helpful visuals i was able to put the pieces together and still learn! what i mean to say is, i don't think I've ever learned so much about music in such a sort amount of time as this. I thank you for this great analysis! Could you take a look at Undertale's music in the future??
This is probably one of my favorite channels on yt, mostly because I know absolutely nothing about music. I know how to read play saxophone, but I had no idea music was so logical.
Having the knowledge of the motif has dramatically changed my composition skills instead of playing just random notes and consequently the composition journey already became more interesting
I'm in love with this channel and this is the only video I've seen. I hope to see more videos like this on your channel. I love music theory... I've been out of it for half a decade though...
I would be VERY interested in an analysis of Demon's Souls music, which I think handles melody waaaaaaaay better as a whole than Dark Souls. That or more unexpected tones, like Flamelurker or Old Hero themes, which is one of the things Gwyn's theme suprises and stays in the mind. Also the whole analysis of the handling of themes would be very interesting with the final boss theme, Allant, which uses a theme previously heard on the game. Dunno, it would be amazing to hear your opinions on that game's music .w.
Hearing this explanation of how the song is structured reminds me of how the mechanic of respawning works. The eight bar transition section calls to mind 'death', the song wants to end, but is forced to press on in spite of this desire to stop, just like the Chosen Undead and every respawning Hollow is forced to persist in their undead state. In many ways, Gwyn's theme echoes just how much he's fucked the world by prolonging his Age of Fire, there is no true resolution until it's stopped by an outside hand.
Dark Souls (DkS) blew me away once again recently when listening to Uprising Grand's interpretation of the Main Theme of DkS3. There's a small motif in there that I hadn't ever noticed before when listening to the full orchestration. It was at this point that I had also played the Ashes of Ariandel DLC with Sister Friede's theme. This motif in the theme was the same one used to develop the entire Friede theme... Upon finding this I immediately checked the date of the Main Theme interpretation video to check if it was a coincidence. The video had been released even before the DLC was announced. Meaning Sister Friede's theme was beautifully based on a hidden extract from the Main Theme that may only be noticeable when pulled apart. Musical genius!
mentioning the narrative of the game that the song comes from helps listeners understand the motive and purpose of the composer's choices. thank you for making it clear!
Love the motif discussions. Would love to see a video analyzing Final Fantasy 6's use of motifs, since that game has such a an operatic soundtrack (there's literally an opera in it, too).
The best final boss soundtrack imo. The clarity and brightness of the piano makes such an amazing contrast to the rest of the soundtrack. Also, really hearing that Erik Saties' Gymnopedies on that particular piece. Masterpiece.
You don't need booger-kid. Your opinions and lore speculations are valued and appreciated.
what
Good comment but ik m not gonna like it bc I dont want to ruin the 666 likes
Yeah holy shit that bit he does is so annoying and unnecessary.
Yeah, that was really annoying whenever he did that.
THANK YOU, I'm enjoying this video and then this annoying unnecessary gag keeps coming back....
Hmm...
Yes...
I know some of these words
Sir Phil po
Misha Hall p
Misha Hall ppp
there's something so inherently and unmistakably _sad_ about Gwyn's theme that transcends game mechanics or technical explanation, there's so much in those piano notes that feels like slow crumbling stuff, frost and dust; asphyxiation and a vast grayness... perfect for Dark Souls
Precesely, the one chord throughout around 8 bars may seem to just be bad, but it is just hollow. Like Dark Sould 3.
It hits even harder for me because of the sheer contrast between the idea of a final boss battle score and the score we're given.
Yes.
Absolutely right
I read grayness as gayness
I'd just like to add that the entire composition of the Gwyn, Lord of Cinder boss theme uses only the white keys. It's almost like the composition itself fears the Dark, just like Gwyn.
And like my Texan cousins
Are u vaati vidya in disguise
Big if true
Nice Catch Paul.
This simply isn’t true. Have you read the music?
Smough pieces with Havel chest armor in the ending scene?
Someone call the fashion police!
Gotta get that +1 defense.
stacking poise smh scrub strats
Randaru HappyHeists Not even his game footage. He didn't give credit to boss fight database, which is where he got the footage.
it's called being THICC ya casul
are you a casual? ITS CALLED T H I C C AND WANTING TO GIVE THE S U C C
You should have called this “plin plin plon-explained”
Such a shame
Or how to be “filled with nostalgic sorrow”
“It’s almost like putting down an old, sick dog.”
God damn. That hit way too close to home.
I read the title as “How Dark Souls turns moths into music” and I was like “Yeah. How _does_ Dark Souls turn moths into music?!”
Gwyns fight was without a doubt one of the most emotional final boss fights. You've fought grand monsters, stared down dragons and won the great flames through trial of combat. You've harshed a swamp of poisons and braved a fortress of one thousands traps. You've died over and over, on the verge of losing your humanity. You've traverses the abyss and entered a soft and gentle world within a painting and traversed the palace of the gods. You've killed a dragon . You've experienced such grandeur and you finally reach the kiln of the first flame. The aether surrounds you as you step in, the unresting souls of the knights who died walk aimlessly. You enter this ashen, barren place and a sense of dread over comes you. There's no enemies. Not for a short while, which is odd. You're used to ay least lesser hollows stuck in their insanity, lone and cowering. Then you see your first enemy. A knight of Gwyn. He charges you, alone. Defending his lord to his final death. If you choose to fight, he dies if not, he chases you down, not willing to let you win. You continue and see a second. He charges too, the balance you gold on the thick, fallen beams covered in ash. If you loom you find the remains of a dead knight, lying on the edge of precipice. It was at this moment the desolation really hit me. There's nothing. Everything was burned away to ash aside from five knights. Strong but nothing compared to their former self. The bleak and grey colour scheme is a fair cry from the greys, greens and neon oranges we've seen before. There's nothing. As you reach the kiln, you find the final three guards, the best of the five knights, wielding the great axe, a weapon requiring enormous strength. The halberd, a weapon of emmense dexterity and speed but still unwieldy for most. After finishing them off, collecting the various shards they drop. And you're faced with a wall of fog. Eager to finish this, to fulfil your duty or usurp the mantle of lord you pass through. Instead of some hulking spider beast, or a pair of golden clad giants. Instead of a God, you see a man. And with him you hear the score. It's so basic, so plain compared to the other musical notes but it's beautiful. Standing there, flamong sword in hand, he jumps, willing to do anything to keep the flame burning as he had before. But he isn't a God. He's a husk. The remains of a god gone mad with want and fear. He charges, seeing you as a threat. The music doesn't change. Theres no crescendo, no powerful swell to indicate immense power. His attack is weak compared to what it once was. This musical score was one of the most amazing I'd ever heard in a game. The song at the end of the game was a perfect representation of the struggle to survive and to keep the flame going, despite its inevitable snuffing
Gwynn is really robin Williams
👏👏👏You made me cry
You know it's funny. By the time I got to the fight with Gwyn I felt that I was overleveled. He was far from the most challenging battle and I felt a little disappointed. Thinking back on it now though, it's honestly rather fitting. By the time I came to defeat him the battle had already been won, he just didn't want to accept it.
Am I the only one that is totally cool with you going into the lore of the game as much as the structure behind its music?
*no. Most fans of the game like the lore of Dark souls. So it was more of a distraction to have wind waker boi in there*
@@tk_the_onion What?! People who like the story in a game that's known for telling its story through the world instead of cutscenes like the lore of the series?!
I am shocked and appalled!
Overbearing sarcasm aside, I think it's a brilliant story, and the fact thay he's so ignorant to the fact that anybody playing can enjoy it subconsciously without being forced into the generic canned animation cutscenes that were popular at the time is amazing.
@@dolphinboi-playmonsterranc9668 I think he was joking
I do enjoy the lore as well. There's no need for booger kid.
That's actually very necessary when talking about video game music since composers will compose their music both for the gameplay and for the lore.
Oh, I was going to write a comment about the booger kid segments but turns out you have a super awesome fan base that has said everything I could possibly say way better than I could have said it.
I was honestly interested in hearing your thematic ideas on the music, and the booger kid was legitimately annoying because he was censoring my favorite part of the video.
I have NO FREAKING IDEA what is going on in this video... but I still find it SO FASCINATING. I'm definetly waching more of your stuff and sending it to my more musically inclined friends.
Nice video and analysis; only criticism would be that the booger-kid segments seemed to break the flow of the video and felt a bit out of place.
Yeah. It felt like you (8-Bit Music Theory) were self-censoring your earnest enthusiasm about the feelings and narrative they were able to convey musically. I would've loved to here you talk more about the narrative and was always mad at the snot-nosed kid for curtailing that.
Infusing your video with some comedy was and is a good idea, but you don't need to self-criticize so much. Your opinions are valuable and we want to hear them!
All comedic elements other than 'booger kid" are great, probably due to their subtlety. Edit: Especially the Patreon plug, not as subtle- didn't need to be since its at the end of the video- but top notch.
Gotta agree, just like the subject you talk about your interest and observations hold us enough on their own, like you said in the video, repeating it just really breaks the rhythm and the flow. Other than that, could listen to this breakdown for hours.
Yeah don't do booger kid again please
Totally agree. Nice work beside that. I hope 8-bit Music Theory will do an episode about Shadow of The Comet : very short OST but excellent structure and delicious moogish 16bit textures.
Nope, adding lore relation to the music motif is cool and important
A is lonliness
B is false redemption(variation 2 is defeat)
C is resignation
thats how I initially receive it
and that build up at C I think is meant to be last breath of will to fight
9:33 I feel like its the element of doubt
11:25 I think it can be called "realisation on what is to come"
also, please make more "how to develop small ideas into full song" type of videos. Stuff like arrangement and development. There seems to be a lack of good videos of this on youtube. Would love you long time.
"You can get away with writing 15 seconds of music and stretching it out however long it needs to be."
*looks at Toby Fox
*looks at Homestuck in general
Yeah.
Liam White tru
Both of which are good games!
@@manicpanic1 yes toby fox is a good game. what? i know this was 7 months ago but what are you talking about
Toby Fox, the creator of Undertale. He's known for using a certain level of repetition in his OSTs but with a twist to make each piece unique
Holy shit my thoughts exactly XD
2:07 i Just got distracted with the genius that is fighting Gwyn with a lightining spear...
Omg yessss
10/10 skill
Would love to see some more videos on the Dark Souls OST. I'm not very buff on my music theory but there's a lot of motifs that get brought up, particularly with any of the chaos demon related fights (Quelaag, Centipede Demon etc). Exceptionally strong use of brass in those pieces and there's a 3 note descending pattern that's used in all of those fights that is kind of similar to Gwyn's motif.
If anyone else has any cool DS soundtrack thoughts hmu I need that like I need hard drugs.
Well... DO you need hard drugs? Just trying to gauge how badly you need those videos? Like, it seems like you essentially just told all of us that you're into "hard" drugs. And if that is the case then all I have to say to you is "fuck yeah, man". 👌
I always feel so excited when I see a video of yours in my sub box.
This actually warms my heart
n e p n e p
So does arson
Jeez, the music in Dark Souls is pure genious, love how most of the pieces are so fitting with the context of the chapter of the story
I think I've learned more from you about composing/songwriting than from any other youtube channel and I've just watched 3 of your videos so far... great work!
Could I trouble you to dissect one Souls piece in particular? The Twin Princes from Dark Souls 3 [Yuka Kitamura - [Dark Souls III #21] Lorian, Elder Prince & Lothric, Younger Prince] is overpowering and forceful, but why?
seconded
The intro is very chaotic but unified like a fanfare over the tonic. Cluster chords and splashes of controlled dissonance increase the sense of density already established by the broad and large instrumentation, essentially filling holes between the steps of the consonant chords. As the violins carry the intro motifs, a harpsichord and eventually other strings begin a rhythmic acceleration, sending the behemoth sound flying faster without changing the tempo. Other moving lines in the texture surface such as in the cellos, creating a somewhat polyphonic motion. Eventually, the melody reduces to the first stand violins, evoking the twin princes themselves and taking on a somewhat lonesome or isolated tone within the frenzy that continues around them..
From here, a large homophonic progression ensues where the choir and brass take the center stage. Choirs often have a religious or regal atmosphere to them, especially in this arrangement and magnitude. The piece is no longer a frenzy but a controlled regality with imposing, slower rhythms than the intro and distinct harmonic progressions. For the most part, this section dances around the dominant without making it the dominant until the end of the section where it can resolve in a cadence. It keeps you on your toes but doesn't use dissonance or leading tones to do so until it wants to.
Most of the overpowering nature comes from the sheer density of instrumentation.
EidolonOrpheus Great video.
Sick in a hotel bed, in my delirious state I was like, "Know what, I wanna know too."
I agree. what a powerful composition.
This video was very interesting to me, I have studied the psychology of gaming and books, and it is great to see the musical science to it also. Thank you. Subbed.
watched most of your videos up to now. There's both clarity in explanations and analysis depth, please make a video about games that use layered tracks, such as Darkest Dungeon
Good video, but I hoped to see some exploration of the relationship of Gwyn's theme with the rest of the OST.
Good point! I didn't hear much in common with Gwyn's theme and the rest of the soundtrack, but I would love it if someone corrected me on that 'cause it's not like I transcribed the whole OST or anything
Maybe that can be emphasizing how separated from the world he is? He's trying desperately to keep off the time of darkness because of the chaos it would bring but ironically enough he's only making things worse by prolonging the age of light. You can even hear similar music in the lord of Cinder fight in the end of DS3"s main campaign so that same symbolism of prolonging the inevitable and making things worse by doing so is still there.
The themes in the soundtrack seem to be all very different. Except the demon bosses. Taurus Demon, Chaos Witch Queelag, Ceaseless Discharge all share a certain melody (in the choir).
Somehow I missed this video. I would kill to have you analyze Motoi Sakuraba's battle music. His work in Souls was a real eye opener that he could branch out and do amazing things. But you know what's super rad? The Valkyrie Profile battle tune and all the others like it from Tales and many other sources. When you hear it you *always* know it's Sakuraba and I'd love to know more about how a composer can craft that sort of signature sound... hell, even if it isn't Sakuraba. I hear it in a lot of them.
oh btw, i think how the bass line repeats endlessly like a hollow, while the mighty theme of what gwyn once was plays over it trying to overshadow it, but never able to.
Wow, this video really helped me get some things about music structure to click in my head, and you've done a great job of explaining how different parts of the song fit together to build a powerful, unified piece. Your discussion of lore also provides good context for the piece as a whole and for particular sections of it. I particularly like the way you relate the notes trailing off toward the end to the flame burning out. Outstanding explanation, thank you!
Ive been looking for a channel like this for ages......Thank you for coming up with such a great niche.
I am absolutely no music nerd. I know basically 'nothing' about theory. Well I know a little but I'll sure try to learn more with your videos and try to understand what you mean with the theory I haven't learned yet. I'm 'learning' music theory because I like it by myself with no teacher by the help of the internet. I think I'm getting better and better with time while learning new things here and there. Hopefully one day I'll be able to learn enough to understand the what you say on the fly without pausing the vid and think too much about what you've just said.
You sir have some super great content on your channel. I'm digging it even I don't have much knowledge to talk about theory too much. I'll get there one day with some determination. :)
Enogimka Check out Adam Neely's Bass Lessons if you're interested in theory, dude explains things SUPER well
MCDMars ahah I've been watching him wait before I have discovered 8-bit music theory.
I like Adam Neely's video but he sometime gets into too deep stuff for me to the level of my understanding but I keep getting back to his vids MOAR than once to his videos. What I like of 8-bits is that he transcribe pieces and analyze it and it makes me thing about the things I know or believe I know till it proves me wrong. Another channel I really like to learn music theory it' "12tone"
I've been kinda obsessed with music theory videos for a few months now and this is easily one of my favourites. You're just changing my whole understanding of musical motifs.
Thank you SO MUCH for taking on this subject! This a theme that I've been discussing with friends, and been surprised that not many people noticed, haven't seen any of your videos before this one I was expecting a more narrative thematic analysis from the player's perspective. If you pay attention (assuming you go through the game in a more or less intended route) you can notice the rise of intensity in the music until you talk to Gwynevere, where your discover you role, and from then on a descending theme right up until the battle with Gwyn.
Althought this was WAY more technical than I expected, I enjoyed it lot and learned a lot about music theory. Again, thank you so much!
So...
OnlyAfro took simple mechanics and turned them into the amazing epitome of min-maxing PvP builds, Giant Dad.
Motoi Sakuraba took simple motifs and turned them into a beautiful soundtrack, essentially min-maxing.
...
OnlyAfro is Motoi Sakuraba confirmed!
Vander Karl POWER UP THE MOTIF CANON
THE LEGEND!
this was the first video of yours that I had seen, and I would just like to say. it is utterly refreshing to listen to something about on Dark Souls I have no knowledge of. Brilliant work dood.
Absolutely loved everything about the analysis, but please, in the future, feel free to continue your thoughts on how the piece relates back to the themes of the game. Great video :)
I just found your channel and can't get enough of this.. I've watched all of your content in two days. I've been writing a lot lately and video game music has always been a huge inspiration for me. I think hearing ocarina of times soundtrack so much as a kid is what even got me into loving music in the first place.
either way I absolutely love this stuff so keep going!
Okay, you are a saint for making this video. Sakuraba has honestly given me so much inspiration in my compositions and now I understand what he's doing it's lifesaving. Thanks :D
Dammit I freaking love this channels so much. It takes both of my loves of music and video games and analyzes what makes our favorites so great.
It’s so interesting and so well done, thank you SO much. I hope all the best for this channel.
Nice video, but don't be afraid to put the theory in 8-bit music theory. You don't need to restrain yourself from the lore of the game based on one subset of your subscribers, and you don't need booger-kid.
For the short time I subbed, I noticed one thing.
All your videos are gold! I'm super excited to see more, as each one of your videos can really make my day.
I've remembered and learnt a lot of composition techniques with your videos, and more importantly so, how to put them into practice with memorable examples. Thanks a lot for your videos!
As a senior in high school and a percussionist who took AP Music Theory and absolutely loved it, not to mention being a gamer from around the time the N64 came out, seeing two of my favorite things blended together in a channel like this is absolutely amazing. Thank you for your services.
10:26 I love those filthy low bass notes on bars 74 and 78.
I LOVE how you pointed out "in a universe where Sakuraba is a slightly worse composer". Those tiny details show the effort in editing.
Dude, the work you make is unbelievably good. I mean, there isn't more niche oriented shit to me than having a very specific dark souls theme used to explain music composing in less than 15 minutes. This is the first video I see and I just love you so much for putting this out there. Thank you so much and please keep up this amazing work
Love the bit about augmentation, never heard of it but I’ve seen it before. Yoko Shimomura does it I believe in “Sacred Moon” where she plays a broken motif of “Dearly Beloved”.
I would love to see a video discussing the music of kingdom hearts. I'm not really musically skilled, but something about KH's music keeps it stuck in my brain more than any other game I've played. Thank you for these amazing videos in general!
This is an incredible video, I'm about to binge on all your videos. I'm actually learning music theory from this, and that's smashing! Thank you for the work put into this video!
This is legit the best new channel on youtube right now, great content
This looks like I'd need at least 3 hands to play it on piano
Just subbed today. I've only seen 2 videos so far but pleeeeeease keep going! It's been too long since I've even looked sideways at music theory and your videos are awesome and educational (and go way over my head sometimes but still interesting!). You actually spurred me to pull out my piano and play it again (haven't done that in a decade). Thank you!!!
That's so cool to hear! Tickle those ivories
I think your videos are the ones that makes me the most excited when I see them in my feed!
Its nice to see every day there's more and more channels that go into the *art* part of videogames, making analysis and recognizing the hard work, talent and beauty that is behind a lot of really well made videogames. Its also nice to see that along all of these channels that analyse writing, structure, gameplay, music, lore... there's always a constant: Dark Souls.
That game is definitely something else.
UA-cam recommended this video to me because I watched some Sideways videos. You two are a breath of fresh air to the musical scene in this platform.
I find myself coming back to this video several times a year to help with my writing
I gotta say, this channel is amazing and informative in a very accessible way. thank you for doing this
This is possibly the most useful video I've heard so far on this channel! Any recommendations on where to learn more about putting motifs in practice? I feel this is a big issue I've been trying to overcome as a composer (not only does it take 4x longer but my music tends to lack identity), and it'd be nice to learn more.
I feel like I haved waited 15 years for this after your last video. Alas, I am sated.
Now go make more.
I'm on it *types furiously*
No but thanks, I know it's been awhile haha. I'm gonna try and get them out more regularly from now on
You have some of the best videos.
Sometimes you gotta sacrifice speed for quality.
this is super helpful for composition techniques.
Thank you for putting the 5th symphony as an example.
Awesome video man. I love the tie in of lore to the analysis of the piece. Thank you, I hope to see more !!!
i havent played through all of dark souls, ive barely played ds 3, demons souls, and bb. ive been into elden ring recently though, a lot, and im ensnared in the souls franchise before. this is the first time ive heard "Gwyn, Lord of Cinder" and im in tears. what a beautiful piece and a fantastic dissection of it.
Hey, just found your channel, loving everything :)
I've been playing guitar and writing since my early teens, now 26 and musically uneducated, but you're the first seemingly educated person I've listened to that I felt was giving _useful_ analysis -- most analysis I've found seems to be overly simplistic, be more of a reflection of the analyzer's mind rather than the piece itself, or worship the person who wrote it... but not so with you! Iow, it feels like you're objectively describing the most important elements of how a piece was actually composed which can be reapplied, rather than offering sophistry. Let's put it this way, you're making me strongly regret disregarding the academic perspective, haha.
In many ways, you're putting labels on things I've already intuited from listening to music (e.g. effective/weird chord structures), and filling in gaps of knowledge I couldn't have accessed otherwise. I thought your FF7 and Mario videos were especially fantastic ;)
Given my background (years of writing/playing/listening but no college music education), any advice on where to learn more effective composition, for games in particular? Or maybe that's what this channel is for... hmm.
Keep up the great work!
Hey thanks man! I definitely know what you mean about a lot of musical analysis out there on the internet, and music academia comes with its own slew of problems. Musicians like yourself with a lot of playing experience but no formal education I think are actually in a really good spot to learn theory - learning rules of grammar is a lot easier if you already speak the language, y'know?
I think the best way to learn how to compose is to analyze other pieces of music. Get deep into transcribing a lot of music, and try to find connections or similarities between pieces. Start analyzing scores from classical pieces that you like (imslp.org/ is a great resource for this). Look through a real book or find some charts for jazz tunes online and analyze their chord progressions. You'll find tons of ideas and patterns that show up all over the place, regardless of whatever genre or even century the songs were written in. Basically anything you can do to grow your vocabulary of compositional techniques is going to help, especially if you take the time to practice applying everything you find into compositions of your own.
Hope that helps??? Thanks for checking out the channel!!
It does help, haha. I guess I keep hoping for a holy grail of "Here is the composition knowledge you need but never had," but I suppose it may be total red herring :/ The grammar-language analogy seems spot on (as a programmer I think about things in those terms all the time.) Thanks for the advice, I definitely need to recommit myself to analyzing more music (and probably more than just video game music) :)
I don’t know anything about music theory, I’m just watching because I love the souls/borne games
love this so much, so helpful for composing!
Actually amazing, I am going to be learning chord theory from a music major friend of mine due to your videos. I understand vaguely about tonics and chord movements, and due to your videos, my curiosity has been piqued enough for me to want to learn and memorize fully.
That's amazing!! Good luck man, if you have have any questions feel free to message me or tweet me something
I think... I'm going to marathon your videos. This one was really informative. Also, you don't have to downplay how the story and music are related. I think it really helped with the explanations.
Urghhhhhhh this video was SO HELPFUL
Major theory fan and dark souls fan here. I loved music theory classes in high school, and I'm quite frankly amazed at how clear and concise you are with explaining your observations in this video. I feel bad for anyone that doesn't understand what you're talking about here, because this is really something special. I never put any thought into the final boss theme before, thank you.
Please do bloodborne ;-;
Gehrman theme
I love your music lectures. I've been playing piano for 20 years and still learning more and more about music theory. I've never studied in college. These kinds of videos are great for moving forward from your basic music theory
I lost it when the snot kid from wind waker came on screen and the voice you used fitted that moment perfectly
i gotta give it to you with the patron ad at the end . that was funny af
Your best video yet. Seriously keep it up bud these videos are great.
When you were messing around with Gywen’s theme by changing how he could have done it instead, I still found those versions nice sounding
Nice video, really helped me in the structuring process of composition, keep up the good work.
Have you seen Game Theory video on the Dancer of the Boreal Valley? Pretty nice catch on the influence of music in gameplay.
Loved the video btw XP. Your analysis was pretty rich and insightful :D.
Damn. You're good. I look forward to watching your channel grow! Thank you for the awesome video :)
Your videos are awesome!! I grew up listening exclusively to video game music, which I would hum and sing to myself all the time. Then I took a music theory class many years ago and loved it. But I never saw them brought together until your videos... and it's so inspirational!!! I honestly might get my keyboard and dig up my old copy of Sibelius to try my hand at composing again :)
I love how the ending seems so desperate and anxious when compared with the slow and sad start. It really brings forth the idea of an old king trying to hold to his last breath just a bit longer.
Very much of a Dark Souls fan. Just found your channel and instantly subscribed.
not a lot of chords going on in this one but the melody is lit
That bit at the end with the Patreon dropping the money corpse in the cell cracked me up.
So, a thought about the piece. It's in A Minor at 120bpm, yes? A minor, being the relative minor of C Major, uses only white keys on a piano (excluding the notes that stray out of the key). And 120bpm is a pretty standard beats per minute. I've yet to find a composing software where the default bpm isn't 120. I find it pretty interesting that the song uses two fairly standard components in its structure; being a key which uses only white keys on the piano, and also a pretty standard beats per minute. I wonder if Sakuraba took these two things into account when composing this piece.
I LOVE you man, for this video. I always thought souls 1 and 2 had uniques pieces that I only ever found on jybh012's channel and then max Richter's pieces
because i am not very familiar with musical terminology i found it to be a bit of a challenge to follow along at first, but thanks to a combination of being very familiar with the sound of the song itself, and your helpful visuals i was able to put the pieces together and still learn! what i mean to say is, i don't think I've ever learned so much about music in such a sort amount of time as this.
I thank you for this great analysis! Could you take a look at Undertale's music in the future??
Dark souls’ music fits the narrative amazingly. Especially Gwynn. Knowing the story makes a person appreciate the detail in the music even more.
This is probably one of my favorite channels on yt, mostly because I know absolutely nothing about music. I know how to read play saxophone, but I had no idea music was so logical.
Having the knowledge of the motif has dramatically changed my composition skills instead of playing just random notes and consequently the composition journey already became more interesting
I'm in love with this channel and this is the only video I've seen. I hope to see more videos like this on your channel. I love music theory... I've been out of it for half a decade though...
I would be VERY interested in an analysis of Demon's Souls music, which I think handles melody waaaaaaaay better as a whole than Dark Souls. That or more unexpected tones, like Flamelurker or Old Hero themes, which is one of the things Gwyn's theme suprises and stays in the mind. Also the whole analysis of the handling of themes would be very interesting with the final boss theme, Allant, which uses a theme previously heard on the game. Dunno, it would be amazing to hear your opinions on that game's music .w.
Hearing this explanation of how the song is structured reminds me of how the mechanic of respawning works. The eight bar transition section calls to mind 'death', the song wants to end, but is forced to press on in spite of this desire to stop, just like the Chosen Undead and every respawning Hollow is forced to persist in their undead state.
In many ways, Gwyn's theme echoes just how much he's fucked the world by prolonging his Age of Fire, there is no true resolution until it's stopped by an outside hand.
Really love the thumbnails! Nobody goes for the 'R:255 G:0 B:255 Magenta' but you somehow make it work! I can instantly tell it's your video!
Thanks!! That was the goal hahah
Dark Souls (DkS) blew me away once again recently when listening to Uprising Grand's interpretation of the Main Theme of DkS3.
There's a small motif in there that I hadn't ever noticed before when listening to the full orchestration. It was at this point that I had also played the Ashes of Ariandel DLC with Sister Friede's theme. This motif in the theme was the same one used to develop the entire Friede theme...
Upon finding this I immediately checked the date of the Main Theme interpretation video to check if it was a coincidence. The video had been released even before the DLC was announced.
Meaning Sister Friede's theme was beautifully based on a hidden extract from the Main Theme that may only be noticeable when pulled apart.
Musical genius!
I subbed because of this video. Would love to see more Dark Souls music analysis / ways of song development etc.
Im glad I'm not the only one that enjoys Dark Soul's music enough to talk about it at length like this, especially Gwyn's theme, which is my favorite.
mentioning the narrative of the game that the song comes from helps listeners understand the motive and purpose of the composer's choices. thank you for making it clear!
Love the motif discussions. Would love to see a video analyzing Final Fantasy 6's use of motifs, since that game has such a an operatic soundtrack (there's literally an opera in it, too).
The best final boss soundtrack imo. The clarity and brightness of the piano makes such an amazing contrast to the rest of the soundtrack.
Also, really hearing that Erik Saties' Gymnopedies on that particular piece. Masterpiece.
I was studying for my music theory exam and your channel actually teaches it pretty simply without even realising that you're learning lol